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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Wednesday, November fifth, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Lyttleton. I am co

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Speaker 1: editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm in

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Speaker 1: LA He's in New York, and Variety has reporters around

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Speaker 1: the world covering the business of entertainment. On today's episode,

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Speaker 1: in our cover story segment, Variety's intrepid investigative reporter Tatiana

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Speaker 1: Siegeal details her cover story that asks a straightforward question,

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Speaker 1: what does David Ellison want? She teamed with Variety's Brent

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Speaker 1: Lang and Matt Donnelly to capture how fast things are

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Speaker 1: changing on the Melrose lot. And we'll also hear from

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Speaker 1: Chris Willman, Variety's chief music critic, on why he has

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Speaker 1: fallen for a certain concert venue near Palm Springs. But

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Speaker 1: before we get to that, here are a few headlines

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Speaker 1: just in this morning that you need to know. The

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Speaker 1: Motion Picture Association is not amused. Hollywood's top trade org

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Speaker 1: has sent a notice to Meta ordering it to stop

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Speaker 1: using the PG thirteen movie rating to describe Instagram's framework

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Speaker 1: for its new teen settings on the app. The trade

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Speaker 1: group called Instagram's use of the PG thirteen moniker quote

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Speaker 1: literally false and highly misleading end quote. Of course, there's

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Speaker 1: more news from Paramount. The studio has unveiled a massive

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Speaker 1: reorganization of its linear cable TV operations under CBS chief

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Speaker 1: George Cheeks. Linear channels are not a growth business, but

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Speaker 1: they do still churn out cash flow. Paramount leaders back

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Speaker 1: in August vowed to hold on to these channels and

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Speaker 1: not follow the lead of NBC Universal and Warner Brothers

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Speaker 1: Discovery by divesting them with spinoff transactions. Managing these linear

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Speaker 1: cable channels is going to be a big challenge for

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Speaker 1: Cheeks and company in the years ahead. Jimmy Kimmel Live

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Speaker 1: has opened up a food bank around the corner from

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Speaker 1: its Hollywood studio. They're collecting donations for the LA Food

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Speaker 1: Bank and the Saint Joseph Center. Good on you, Jimmy.

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Speaker 1: All of these stories and so much more can be

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Speaker 1: found on Variety dot com Right now. Now we turn

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Speaker 1: to conversations with Variety journalists about news and trends and showbiz.

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Speaker 1: In today's cover story segment, Tatiana Siegel discusses her reporting

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Speaker 1: on the changes blowing through the Paramount Lot as the

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Speaker 1: David Ellison regime takes over. The changes are many. It'd

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Speaker 1: be too glib to call it the Maga takeover of

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Speaker 1: a founding Hollywood studio, but our dynamic trio report that

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Speaker 1: you're seeing more Fox News on in executive offices as

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Speaker 1: you walk the halls of the Melrose Lot these days.

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Speaker 1: Tatiana Siegel, thanks so much for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Glad to be back.

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Speaker 1: You have delivered us a story that is packed with information, details, color,

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Speaker 1: and mood. I love it when we step back and say, okay,

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Speaker 1: what is the mood at an important company in our business?

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Speaker 1: And you, Brent Lang and Matt Donnelly went out and

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Speaker 1: endeavored to take the measure of what's going on at

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Speaker 1: Paramount right now, which listeners know has been through quite

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Speaker 1: a transformation. What are some of the biggest surprises that

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Speaker 1: came out of your reporting?

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Speaker 2: I mean surprises for me personally as a reporter. Was

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Speaker 2: that there's so much dramatic change going on at a

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Speaker 2: studio that you know when a new regime takes over,

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Speaker 2: you will inevitably see change, but it'll be more gradual.

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Speaker 2: This is like wrecking ball wood Chipper kind of change

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Speaker 2: happening overnight. You know, where you're seeing a real overhaul

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Speaker 2: of the various divisions. And you can tell a lot

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Speaker 2: from on day one. The first movie that they buy

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Speaker 2: is Timothy Challamet James Mangold moto thriller that's going to

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Speaker 2: maybe cost up to one hundred million dollars. And you know,

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Speaker 2: this is a movie that's kind of built for flyover

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Speaker 2: audiences Red state America, if you will, or can appeal.

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Speaker 1: To both, right, a bit of Nascar and a bit

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Speaker 1: of Timothy Chalome. That's an interesting bridge there.

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Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Maybe it's like the winning formula, because I

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Speaker 2: think it's fair to say that to some extent, Hollywood

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Speaker 2: over the past five years was a little bit reluctant

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Speaker 2: to program for Middle America.

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Speaker 1: It's a sea change, and you really tapped into that.

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Speaker 1: Your story describes a new regime. They're tougher, they're a

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Speaker 1: little more pugnacious, they even argue with themselves. How is

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Speaker 1: that playing out in broader Hollywood and how is that

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Speaker 1: playing out with the old timers that are still left

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Speaker 1: at Paramount.

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Speaker 2: The layoffs of last week were quite dramatic. A thousand

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Speaker 2: people gone I would say that optics matter very little

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Speaker 2: because I I think that at any other studio which

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Speaker 2: wasn't run by a millennial mogul who's the son of

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Speaker 2: the second richest person in the world, there might be

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Speaker 2: a little bit more fear of like ooh, will people

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Speaker 2: on social media say that we laid off too many

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Speaker 2: women or cut too many programs that were considered progressive

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Speaker 2: or whatever. I don't think that David Ellison is concerned

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Speaker 2: with optics. And then the CBS News of it all

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Speaker 2: and Arry Weisse it's like a hydra with multiple tentacles

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Speaker 2: of different dramas unfolding.

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Speaker 1: David Ellison has political connections and capital. You have so

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Speaker 1: much detail because there's a lot of detail about the

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Speaker 1: specific projects, which add up to a picture of what

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Speaker 1: the studio wants.

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Speaker 2: The biggest deal that David Ellison has struck since taking

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Speaker 2: over the studio is this UFC deal. It's worth seven

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Speaker 2: point seven billion dollars over seven years. That's almost what

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Speaker 2: the full price tag was of Paramount itself. And one

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Speaker 2: of the interesting things I uncovered in the reporting is

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Speaker 2: that there's I'm sorry, I have to laugh because there's

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Speaker 2: something so crazy about it. But there's going to be

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Speaker 2: a UFC fight on the White House lawn and that's

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Speaker 2: quite frankly astonishing. And you know, the White House gave

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Speaker 2: me comment and said it'll be a spectacular event. It's

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Speaker 2: kind of like something that five years ago I might

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Speaker 2: not have been able to envision.

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Speaker 1: Five years ago, you would have thought it was South

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Speaker 1: Park exactly. Exactly is a Paramount property. But maybe that is.

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Speaker 2: What the problem with the mentality of people inside the

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Speaker 2: Hollywood bubble is, is like, get outside the bubble and

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Speaker 2: UFC has a lot of fans, it makes a ton

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Speaker 2: of money. It's also global. So when this event takes

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Speaker 2: place on the White House lawn next June or June

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, visiting dignitaries and heads of state from all

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Speaker 2: around the world, because in places like Saudi Arabia and whatnot,

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Speaker 2: they love UFC. They're heavily invested in MMA. So I

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Speaker 2: don't know, the business has been hurting, so why not

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Speaker 2: try a different approach? And I think that that's exactly

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Speaker 2: what Paramount is doing.

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Speaker 1: One thing about the UFC deal that was an absolute

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Speaker 1: gift to Ari Emanuel and the folks at TKO because

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Speaker 1: the dynamics were such paramount needed to make a bold

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Speaker 1: statement like we are going to invest in this. Let

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Speaker 1: me ask you about Ellison's leadership style. Is he hands on?

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Speaker 1: What sense did you get about him as a leader.

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Speaker 2: So for years he has been the boy scout of

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Speaker 2: the Ellison family. Megan Ellison, his sister, had a lot

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Speaker 2: more success initially as a sort of prestige producer and financier.

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Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people saw David Ellison

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Speaker 2: as the the financier, maybe without the same amount of

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Speaker 2: tis and the same great taste as his sister. But

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Speaker 2: he's emerged as somebody in the last six months before

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Speaker 2: the merger and in the one hundred days since the

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Speaker 2: merger who appears to have a really strong vision of

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Speaker 2: what he wants to do. And I don't think a

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Speaker 2: lot of people saw that coming. I thought people thought, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is somebody who can be kind of molded, and

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Speaker 2: I think he has emerged as somebody who actually has

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Speaker 2: been like waiting there in the bush and now is

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Speaker 2: like pouncing.

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Speaker 1: To use another paramount property Star Trek, like he's Captain Kirk.

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Speaker 1: He's sitting at the chair, He's got this incredible dashboard

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Speaker 1: of movies, TV Digital you know, Ipe, you would think

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Speaker 1: everything in the Paramount Library has been remade, but there's

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Speaker 1: a lot to go there. And again, he is, in

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Speaker 1: fact Hollywood's first millennial mogul.

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Speaker 2: Forty two years old.

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Speaker 1: He's the CEO, and he owns the place. That is

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Speaker 1: very different. Brian Roberts of Comcast is the only corollary

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Speaker 1: that I can think of off the top of my head.

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Speaker 1: And Lachlan Murdock, let me ask you about Jeff Shell,

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Speaker 1: who is an industry veteran that is well known, has

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Speaker 1: been at Fox, at NBC Universal, and he's was tapped

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Speaker 1: be Ellison's strong number two, a COO type of role.

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Speaker 1: What did you get the sense about his impact on

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Speaker 1: the company so far?

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Speaker 2: It's impossible to say because it's one hundred days in,

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Speaker 2: but I will say, and perhaps this is telling that

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Speaker 2: more people are talking about the Josh Greenstein Dana Goldberg dynamic.

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Speaker 2: They're the co chairs of Paramount and then Jeff is

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Speaker 2: the president. So which one of these three or is

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Speaker 2: it Josh and Dana versus Jeff are actually shaping the studio?

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Speaker 2: And based on my reporting, it sounded to me like

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Speaker 2: Josh and Dana.

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Speaker 1: And let's not forget Cindy Holland, who has enormous experience

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Speaker 1: in the area. She's running Paramount Plus and all of the.

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Speaker 2: Got in the Jeffer Brothers. That's a kind of deal

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Speaker 2: that makes Ted Sarandosilver at Netflix probably throw his cell

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Speaker 2: phone at the wall. It definitely is not something that

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Speaker 2: gives you a good night's sleep when you lose the

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Speaker 2: Duffer Brothers to Paramount.

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Speaker 1: Right, Paramount said goodbye to Taylor Shird and a hello

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Speaker 1: to the Duffer Brothers. In terms of the Taylor shirdon

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Speaker 1: avt all, there was a history there that I think

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Speaker 1: maybe it was time to move on, and NBC Universal

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Speaker 1: also in a position where they needed to make a

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Speaker 1: statement about what they were going to do going forward

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Speaker 1: because NBC Universal is about to become a much smaller company.

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Speaker 1: Oh the bouncing ball. We don't have enough hours in

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Speaker 1: the day to cover everything that's going on. Listeners, go

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Speaker 1: read the story. You're gonna have to read it twice

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Speaker 1: because it is densely packed with information. It takes a

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Speaker 1: lot of fortitude to cover all this. Tatiana, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being one of our most intrepid warriors. It's a

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Speaker 1: great story and it feels like it's part one of

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Speaker 1: a multi multi chapter book.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, Cynthia.

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Speaker 1: And now Wilman, our inimitable chief music critic, talks us

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Speaker 1: through his delightfully written story about his fondness for a

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Speaker 1: newish venue outside of Palm Springs that has become a

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Speaker 1: favorite of a list touring artists, and then we geek

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Speaker 1: out on our favorite LA music venues. Chris Willman, thanks

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Speaker 1: for joining me, of course, not to this past week.

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Speaker 1: You wrote lovingly about one of your favorite venues, an

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Speaker 1: arena that is outside that is near Palm Springs. It's

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Speaker 1: what prompted you to write this story this past week.

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Speaker 3: Well, they had recently had quite a series of bookings

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Speaker 3: close together that were quite attractive. And it's not the

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Speaker 3: busiest arena in California because it is a secondary market

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Speaker 3: and they have hockey for a lot of the year

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Speaker 3: that keeps them from booking concerts. But I went out

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Speaker 3: there twice in three days, Paul McCartney on a Monday,

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Speaker 3: the first official show of his tour, and The Who

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Speaker 3: on a Wednesday, their last US appearance ever supposedly, but

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Speaker 3: you know, in both cases worth the drive. Even though

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Speaker 3: I had seen both those acts prior to that. Recently,

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Speaker 3: Paul McCartney did a preview show that was not the

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Speaker 3: official opening the store in Santa Barbara Bull. I drove

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Speaker 3: it for that, and then The Who had just played

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Speaker 3: the Hollywood Bowl, so I had seen them, but both

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Speaker 3: acts I just wanted to see again because how many

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Speaker 3: chances are there going to be at this point.

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Speaker 1: Although this farewell tour business, I will believe it when

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Speaker 1: I see it. When I don't see it, I should say.

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Speaker 3: Of course, of course it means a little bit more

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Speaker 3: now that they're in their eighties, but it's a little

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Speaker 3: easier to swallow anyway. And I had been out there

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Speaker 3: once before for tour opening when Olivia Rodrigo opened her

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Speaker 3: tour there at the beginning of last year with Chapel

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Speaker 3: Row and Opening, which was a very memorable show. When

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Speaker 3: I was there for Olivia Rorigo, I just sent that

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Speaker 3: I was enjoying it a lot more because of the

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Speaker 3: relative intimacy quote unquote that we were not going to

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Speaker 3: get when she came back later to play the Forum

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Speaker 3: and the Into It Dome far bigger places.

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Speaker 1: Sure Arena holds eleven thousand people act for sure, which

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Speaker 1: we just learned by looking it up is an insurance company.

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Speaker 3: I think it's probably ten thousand when they don't have

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Speaker 3: the back full, you know, when they have that cutoff

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Speaker 3: at least of I've been told ten thousand. It's kind

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Speaker 3: of their cap for Cosserts. What I think people are

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Speaker 3: kind of pleasantly surprised and shocked when they walk in,

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Speaker 3: even though they've looked at all the seating charts and everything.

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Speaker 3: I started off the article by saying, you know, is

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Speaker 3: intimate arena at Oxymoron, but it does have this sort

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Speaker 3: of pleasant charm for it, even if you're in the

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Speaker 3: back on the same level as the stage. And I

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Speaker 3: talked to Irving asof who's one of the principles in

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Speaker 3: its backstage at one of these shows, and he basically said,

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Speaker 3: part of that mystic top level above the loge level

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Speaker 3: is out of the fact that it is the secondary

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Speaker 3: market and they're not going to fill eighteen thousand seats

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Speaker 3: as easily as someplace in LA The other factor is

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Speaker 3: that they have a height restriction because it's near an airport,

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Speaker 3: they're in palm desert, and so that they could not

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Speaker 3: build an extra level without like digging down in the

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Speaker 3: ground like they did with Sofi Stadium where most of

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Speaker 3: the venues underground. So it was a mixture of the

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Speaker 3: practicality of what's a good capacity for the area versus

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Speaker 3: an actual zoning restriction that keeps this from having so

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Speaker 3: called nosebleed seats. There's no nose bleeds in the actual arena.

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Speaker 3: It's a small arena, but it's still an arena. So,

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Speaker 3: I mean, one of the advantages of it is that

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Speaker 3: at least for the acts that are coming in like

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Speaker 3: Paul McCartney coming in there, like Olivia Rodriguez who also

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Speaker 3: starts her tour there, they can rehearse there. They can

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Speaker 3: book the arena for a week or two ahead of

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Speaker 3: the first night. Irby nays Off use the phrase, you

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Speaker 3: know that they can hang their show. That's the industry

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Speaker 3: ease for just they can put the full production on

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Speaker 3: stage there because the stage is as big as any

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Speaker 3: stage at the Foe or the hollyd Bull or anywhere else,

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Speaker 3: even though the audience is only two thirds of size,

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Speaker 3: but the stage is as big. So I think when

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Speaker 3: those acts play the actreature, they definitely want to do

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Speaker 3: their full show. But it's kind of, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: a couple of hours away from the industry. It's a

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Speaker 3: couple hours away from too many friends coming by to

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Speaker 3: bug you unless you want them to come out, and

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Speaker 3: so it's kind of that sweet spot I think of

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Speaker 3: the out of town tryout in Broadway terms, A for

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Speaker 3: sure is indoor, correct, that's right, there is a roof

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Speaker 3: on the joint.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, Chris, all this talk of venues, you probably

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Speaker 1: knew this was coming. Give me, like your top three

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Speaker 1: or four venues that you really just love to go

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Speaker 1: see shows and that you love for the venue itself.

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Speaker 3: The first two that come to mind in the LA area,

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Speaker 3: and I do have a favorite between them for specific reasons,

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Speaker 3: but it's you know, the Greek and the Hollywood Bowl.

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Speaker 3: Big size difference in that the Greek is like six thousand,

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Speaker 3: and I think the Hollywood bulls around seventeen, so three

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Speaker 3: times the size for the Bull. So again, you know,

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Speaker 3: the Greek at six thousand not really intimate, quote unquote,

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Speaker 3: but comparatively so. But there's something I like more about

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Speaker 3: the Greek than the Bull. Sorry to my many friends

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Speaker 3: who work at or with the Bull. But when I

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Speaker 3: think of favorite venues, I think of where I'm a

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Speaker 3: place I like to be as the setting, but also

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Speaker 3: where I can concentrate most on the music. And so

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Speaker 3: one drawback for the Bull there is that people have

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Speaker 3: got their their picnic baskets. They occasionally hear the wine bottle.

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Speaker 1: There's always the wine bottle that goes.

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Speaker 3: You know, all the creature comforts or scenery. Aside is

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Speaker 3: if it's my favorite band, am I just going to

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Speaker 3: be so locked in that I kind of forget for

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Speaker 3: a minute about where we are. So that's why the

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Speaker 3: Greek is my number one place. I'll just add one

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Speaker 3: thing about the Bowl in its favor, which is, however

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Speaker 3: many distractions there may be from picnickers or wine bottles

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Speaker 3: or whatever, the acts themselves are so thrilled to be there,

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Speaker 3: especially if it's their first time, and that can really

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Speaker 3: affect their performance too.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to throw in the John Anson Ford is

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Speaker 1: a smaller venue, but I love that venue. You really

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Speaker 1: just feel like you're kind of in a magical place.

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Speaker 1: And again, with the right artists the right mood, you

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Speaker 1: do really feel transported. Favorite venue that's out of California.

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Speaker 3: Ooh, I love the Beacon in the so I've seen

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Speaker 3: a lot of shows there over the years. Oh, and

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Speaker 3: then I would say the Gorge in Washington State, which

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Speaker 3: I finally made it to when Brandy Carlisle and Jenny

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Speaker 3: Mitchell were doing a thing there before they did Hollywood

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Speaker 3: Bowl the following year. You've got this whole canyon with

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Speaker 3: a river running through it as a backdrop, as you said,

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Speaker 3: on this high hillside, and it takes some effort to

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Speaker 3: get to. I think it's about a two and a

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Speaker 3: half hour drive or something from Seattle. I think that

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Speaker 3: and Red Rocks are the real kind of outdoor destination

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Speaker 3: venues in the United States, and so I'm gonna do

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Speaker 3: Red Rocks someday. But the Gorge is an incredible place.

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Speaker 1: The thing I always love about your work, Chris, is

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Speaker 1: every time I read, feel your love and for the music,

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Speaker 1: for the artist, and in this case, for the venue.

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Speaker 1: Chris as always thank you for your time.

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Speaker 3: Yes, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: As we close out today's episode, here's a few things

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Speaker 1: we're watching for There are a bunch of interesting TV

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Speaker 1: series coming on Thursday. Netflix unleashes a historical drama with

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Speaker 1: a monster cast death by Lightning. It's the Stranger than

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Speaker 1: fiction true story of the assassination of President James Garfield

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Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty one. It stars Michael Shannon, Michael McFadyen,

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Speaker 1: Betty Gilpin, Nick Offerman, Shay Wigham, Bradley Whitford, Vondi, Curtis

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Speaker 1: Hall and Moore. On the documentary front, an interesting title

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Speaker 1: that premiered at the Toronto Film Festival is heading to

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Speaker 1: ESPN platforms on November nineteenth. Origin The Story of the

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Speaker 1: Basketball Africa League looks at how a new generation of

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Speaker 1: entrepreneurs are trying to boost Africa's presence in the sport.

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Speaker 1: Before we go, congrats to Helen Mirren. She will receive

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Speaker 1: the Cecil B. De Mille Award from the Golden Globe

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Speaker 1: Awards in January. She is the Queen after all. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening. This episode was written and reported by me

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from Tatiana Siegel and Chris Stick

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Speaker 1: Snicks Hick Picks. Please leave us a review at the

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Speaker 1: podcast platform of your choice, and please tune in tomorrow

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Speaker 1: for another episode of Daily Variety