1
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,000
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.

2
00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:20,479
Speaker 2: Is a serial killer stalking the city of Austin, while

3
00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,400
Speaker 2: police steadfastly insist.

4
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 1: That seven bodies fished.

5
00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:32,080
Speaker 2: Out of Ladybird Lake in four months is just a coincidence.

6
00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,120
Speaker 1: Okay, let that sink in.

7
00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:45,480
Speaker 2: Four to seven bodies fished out of Lady Bird Lake

8
00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:51,760
Speaker 2: in Austin, and police are saying it's just a coincdinc Look,

9
00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,080
Speaker 2: you don't have to go to law school to figure

10
00:00:54,080 --> 00:01:00,400
Speaker 2: out there's something very, very wrong at Lady Bird Lake. Grace.

11
00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,840
Speaker 2: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us

12
00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,920
Speaker 2: here at Crime Stories and on Serious XM one eleven.

13
00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:10,280
Speaker 2: What the hey is happening? Listen to Austin police officers

14
00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:11,360
Speaker 2: speaking out.

15
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,400
Speaker 3: Our initial information doesn't show anything suspicious, but we don't

16
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,760
Speaker 3: make that final determination until the medical examiner has been

17
00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,039
Speaker 3: able to conduct their review.

18
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:20,360
Speaker 4: As well, a lot of.

19
00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:21,759
Speaker 5: BODI has been pulled out of the water.

20
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:27,039
Speaker 6: Officer, can you understand the public's concern, worries and the

21
00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:27,720
Speaker 6: heighten of alert?

22
00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:28,600
Speaker 1: Sure?

23
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:29,400
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

24
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:29,679
Speaker 2: You know.

25
00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,400
Speaker 3: One thing to keep in mind is that Austin has

26
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,000
Speaker 3: thousands of acres of green space and waterways. You know,

27
00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:41,240
Speaker 3: it's a very nature focused, large metropolitan area so you know,

28
00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,800
Speaker 3: we would just encourage people to always be aware of

29
00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,880
Speaker 3: your surroundings, you know, and if you can go with friends,

30
00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,200
Speaker 3: keep yourself safe, right so that way we don't have

31
00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,440
Speaker 3: unfortunate incidents that that can occur.

32
00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:58,520
Speaker 2: What unfortunate incidents many people call it murder. Now, I've

33
00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,640
Speaker 2: been researching this and there are many bodies that have

34
00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,360
Speaker 2: just been recently pulled out of Lady Bird Lake, but

35
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,399
Speaker 2: all the way back to two thousand and eight, there

36
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,359
Speaker 2: have been suspicious deaths, bodies floating up in Ladybird Lake

37
00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,520
Speaker 2: that have been deemed accident or suicide. Specifically, in two

38
00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 2: thousand and eight, rid hamad rid Ahmad a dad, a husband,

39
00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,000
Speaker 2: great job, second job.

40
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,600
Speaker 1: He's found dead in Ladybird Lake.

41
00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:39,320
Speaker 2: His hands and feet are bound and he has tape

42
00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:44,120
Speaker 2: over his mouth and nose. Witnesses saw it when he

43
00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,280
Speaker 2: was pulled out of the water. Multiple witnesses saw that

44
00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,440
Speaker 2: he was bound and dug taped, but it.

45
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,640
Speaker 1: Was ruled a suicide.

46
00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,519
Speaker 2: How did he bind his feet and hands, get dug

47
00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,680
Speaker 2: tape in his mouth and nose, and what hobble into

48
00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:11,200
Speaker 2: the water and flee himself in That's statistically impossible if

49
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 2: you look at method and assessment of homicide and suicide.

50
00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:20,239
Speaker 2: That assessment is very wrong. But let's fast forward to now.

51
00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 2: Cops in Austin still insisting it's all just a coincidence.

52
00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:32,200
Speaker 2: Agree or disagree. Another body just found. Take a listen

53
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:33,640
Speaker 2: to rachel Bania crime online.

54
00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,520
Speaker 5: Another body has been found in Ladybird Lake in Austin.

55
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,880
Speaker 5: At one thirty one pm, Austin police respond to a

56
00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,240
Speaker 5: check welfare urgent call after a nine to one to

57
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,240
Speaker 5: one caller reports seeing a body about twenty feet off shore.

58
00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,880
Speaker 5: Police arrive at one thirty three pm minutes after the

59
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,160
Speaker 5: call is made and find a body of an unknown

60
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,280
Speaker 5: person who's pronounced dead. So the body is found in

61
00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,200
Speaker 5: the same site where other deceased individuals have been recovered

62
00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:58,200
Speaker 5: in recent months.

63
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,040
Speaker 2: Okay, let me understand what's had happening. First of all,

64
00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,440
Speaker 2: let's go out to a special guest joining us, the

65
00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,480
Speaker 2: Brionna Hollis crime reporter.

66
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,160
Speaker 1: K XA and news Brianna. Thank you for being with us.

67
00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,080
Speaker 2: First of all, tell me about Lady Bird Like I understand,

68
00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:18,159
Speaker 2: it's a man made lake to what hold water for

69
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:18,839
Speaker 2: a reservoir?

70
00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:19,919
Speaker 1: What is it.

71
00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,919
Speaker 7: Correct it for? You know, the average person who hasn't

72
00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,520
Speaker 7: been to Austin. It's referred to as the River. It's

73
00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,920
Speaker 7: I believe, about four hundred and seventy acres of the

74
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,159
Speaker 7: service surface area, and it flows under the two major

75
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:40,520
Speaker 7: highways in town, goes all through downtown, is lined by

76
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,719
Speaker 7: a lot of green space, is close to bars, right

77
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:49,000
Speaker 7: by a popular walking and hiking trail.

78
00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 2: So let me understand Lady Bird Lake actually has a

79
00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,960
Speaker 2: ban on swimming in it, doesn't.

80
00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,159
Speaker 8: It for most parts of it?

81
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,039
Speaker 2: Correct, because so many dead bodies have been fished out.

82
00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,760
Speaker 7: There's other reasons for that as well, just kind of

83
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,480
Speaker 7: some I believe, general safety and bacteria in the water

84
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:12,960
Speaker 7: kind of issues as well.

85
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:18,040
Speaker 2: Okay, I understood that swimming was banned a few years

86
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:22,640
Speaker 2: after Riat Hamad was found floating with his hands and

87
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,360
Speaker 2: feet bound and duct tape. After a few more bodies

88
00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:31,240
Speaker 2: floated up and officers continued fishing them out, swimming was

89
00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,919
Speaker 2: in fact banned at Lady Bird Lake.

90
00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,480
Speaker 1: But let's move forward to what we know now.

91
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:47,640
Speaker 2: Also near Ladybird Lake is a popular area that includes

92
00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 2: food trucks, food trucks.

93
00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,919
Speaker 1: And it's a long rainy street. Listen.

94
00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,320
Speaker 9: Rainey Street in downtown Austin is one point eight miles

95
00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,200
Speaker 9: from Ladybird Lake, Rocus bar and food truck area where

96
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,080
Speaker 9: many of the victims were seen before their deaths. It's

97
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,040
Speaker 9: also an area with a long standing reputation for crime.

98
00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,800
Speaker 9: One theory is that people are in danger of having

99
00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,520
Speaker 9: their drink spiked so they can be robbed or worse.

100
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,680
Speaker 9: Over the last two years, the Austin Police Department has

101
00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 9: been investigating crimes where men are being potentially drugged while

102
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,800
Speaker 9: out for the evening. KXAN reports in each case, a

103
00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,599
Speaker 9: man meets a woman at one of the downtown establishments,

104
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,800
Speaker 9: and during the course of the evening, the victim is

105
00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,480
Speaker 9: drugged and the suspect takes off with their credit cards

106
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,920
Speaker 9: and cell phone. Investigators say the cell phones and credit

107
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 9: cards have been used to commit more than seventy five

108
00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,799
Speaker 9: thousand dollars in fraudulent purchases and transactions. The suspect uses

109
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,240
Speaker 9: the credit cards for physical purchases at various businesses and

110
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,400
Speaker 9: the cell phone for banking apps for fraudulent purchases and

111
00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:49,679
Speaker 9: other transactions.

112
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,960
Speaker 2: This would not be the first time that late night

113
00:06:53,160 --> 00:07:00,160
Speaker 2: food trucks have been linked to homicide. Brian Coburger specific

114
00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,000
Speaker 2: as to whom I am referring listen.

115
00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,680
Speaker 9: To a four murdered University of Idaho students caught on

116
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,679
Speaker 9: video less than two hours before they were stabbed to death.

117
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,440
Speaker 9: Madison Mogan and ki leagansolves ordered a ten dollars portion

118
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,360
Speaker 9: of carbonara from the Grub Truckers, a food truck at

119
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,880
Speaker 9: one am. During their ten minute wait, they took photos

120
00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,880
Speaker 9: of each other and chatted with other customers. They arrived

121
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,400
Speaker 9: at the truck with an unidentified young man, but didn't

122
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,720
Speaker 9: leave with him. The video was filmed by the food

123
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 9: truck operators as part of a live stream.

124
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:31,640
Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel to make sense of

125
00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,760
Speaker 1: what we know right now. But I want to go.

126
00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:41,840
Speaker 2: To Dennis Frank's, former FBI Supervisory Special Agent, President of

127
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,920
Speaker 2: Investigative and Security Global Solutions, Dennis, thank you for being with.

128
00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:46,640
Speaker 4: Us, good morning.

129
00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:47,040
Speaker 10: Thank you.

130
00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,480
Speaker 2: The food truck and bar and restaurant area along Rainy

131
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:57,960
Speaker 2: Street not far from Ladybird Lake, and I believe in

132
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:02,840
Speaker 2: criminal law there is no coincidence. And I base that

133
00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,840
Speaker 2: on not only ten years of prosecuting nothing but felonies,

134
00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:13,760
Speaker 2: of course, including homicide, serial murders, spree murders, But in

135
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,440
Speaker 2: all the cases that I've covered, when you keep having

136
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,720
Speaker 2: dead bodies slowed up in the same lake, you have

137
00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,880
Speaker 2: to at least consider a serial killer.

138
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,280
Speaker 10: I would agree it's you count the number of bodies

139
00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,520
Speaker 10: that have been found in this area over the last

140
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,600
Speaker 10: several years, and this is an area where people don't

141
00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,240
Speaker 10: spend their motorized boats are not allowed. You know, there

142
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,559
Speaker 10: are a few drownings every year on Lake Austin and

143
00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,240
Speaker 10: Lake Travis, but these are usually for boating situations and

144
00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,200
Speaker 10: swimming situations. So this number of bodies in one location

145
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 10: to me, is not a coincidence either in their probably

146
00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,240
Speaker 10: I think I've counted, maybe there are fifteen bars on

147
00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,439
Speaker 10: Rainy Street and they're all within distance walking distance of

148
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:02,760
Speaker 10: the lake.

149
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:03,680
Speaker 1: Joining me.

150
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,640
Speaker 2: In addition to Brionna Hollis from k x a N

151
00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:13,320
Speaker 2: and Dennis Frank's for me FBI, another special guest is

152
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:18,360
Speaker 2: Reagan Apodisio, mother to one of the Lady Bird Lake

153
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 2: victim's son. I am referring to John Christopher Hayes Clark.

154
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:31,720
Speaker 2: He was found dead April fifteen, twenty twenty three. His

155
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 2: coeod cause of death even now is undetermined.

156
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,439
Speaker 1: Reagan, thank you for being with us.

157
00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:38,440
Speaker 8: Thank you for having me.

158
00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:39,640
Speaker 1: Reagan What do.

159
00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,880
Speaker 2: You make of police insisting that all of these deaths

160
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 2: are either accident or suicide.

161
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:53,359
Speaker 11: I don't believe anything the Austin Police Department says.

162
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,640
Speaker 8: I haven't since I've known, since I first got the

163
00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,160
Speaker 8: call about Chris.

164
00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,520
Speaker 11: It's been crazy dealing with them, and I haven't had

165
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:10,040
Speaker 11: too much clarification on anything of his death, So that

166
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:11,560
Speaker 11: makes me not believe them.

167
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,520
Speaker 2: When you say it's been crazy dealing with them, what

168
00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:15,480
Speaker 2: do you mean by that.

169
00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,360
Speaker 11: Little to no contact with them? I have to keep

170
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,360
Speaker 11: basically begging to talk to the detective at the time

171
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,720
Speaker 11: when all this happened. I literally only talked to him

172
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,680
Speaker 11: two times, met him one time, and the one time

173
00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 11: I met him is when they were about to close

174
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:32,439
Speaker 11: the case.

175
00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 1: Is the case actually closed?

176
00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:34,720
Speaker 8: Yes?

177
00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,560
Speaker 1: And what was their decision as to cause of death?

178
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,520
Speaker 11: They deemed it as undetermined and they closed the case

179
00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,240
Speaker 11: because they said they had no information on Chris on

180
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,360
Speaker 11: where he would have been or who was the last

181
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,959
Speaker 11: person to see him, so there was no reason to

182
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:51,959
Speaker 11: keep the case open.

183
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:06,960
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Me Nancy Grace.

184
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:13,200
Speaker 2: Joining me is Reegan Aparico. She is the mother of

185
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,840
Speaker 2: one of the victims, young son, who is now twelve

186
00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,440
Speaker 2: and he wants to know what happened to dad? And

187
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,800
Speaker 2: can I tell you as each year passes is going

188
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,679
Speaker 2: to nag him and haunt him the rest of his

189
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,720
Speaker 2: life if we don't get answers. Now is the time

190
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,480
Speaker 2: to get those answers. Reaganet hold on just one moment.

191
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:39,839
Speaker 2: Also joining us is renowned medical examiner chief medical Examiner

192
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 2: in Texas of Terrance County. That's Fort Worth Lecturer, University

193
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 2: of Texas, Austin and at TCU, Texas Christian University Medical School,

194
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,600
Speaker 2: doctor Kendall Crown's.

195
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 1: Doctor crowns, thank you for being with us. To me,

196
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,320
Speaker 1: when a case is.

197
00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:02,839
Speaker 2: Labeled undetermined CEOD cause of death and the family has

198
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,640
Speaker 2: no answers, that's not a case that I would consider

199
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:07,400
Speaker 2: to be closed.

200
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,440
Speaker 12: Yeah, you're correct on that, Nancy. Any case that's left

201
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,880
Speaker 12: undetermined means that the medical examiner wasn't able to figure

202
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,440
Speaker 12: out an exact cause of death and so because of

203
00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,800
Speaker 12: that they've left it undetermined in case any investigative information

204
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,240
Speaker 12: comes up on a later date or anything else may

205
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:30,319
Speaker 12: come arise that may change the outcome. So when you

206
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,839
Speaker 12: get an undetermined, especially in a case found in a

207
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:37,040
Speaker 12: lake like that, It means that they didn't find anything specific,

208
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,840
Speaker 12: because drowning finding themselves are non specific, and so they

209
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,080
Speaker 12: didn't find anything that they felt was valid enough to

210
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,320
Speaker 12: cause it to give a good valid cause death.

211
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,040
Speaker 2: Well, they're saying that about so many of the cases,

212
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,720
Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns. I want to circle back to you

213
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,360
Speaker 2: on obtaining cause of death when a body has been

214
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,960
Speaker 2: in the water submerged for a period of time. But

215
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,559
Speaker 2: I want to go back to Reagan UPDC, mother to

216
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 2: victim Christopher Clark's son.

217
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,479
Speaker 1: Now, I believe as your son turned thirteen.

218
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 8: Yet he'll be thirteen next month.

219
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:14,320
Speaker 2: Question to you regarding the death of Chris Clark. You

220
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:19,120
Speaker 2: guys were together for over ten years. I understand you

221
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:24,280
Speaker 2: last saw him on Easter Sunday, It's correct, and when

222
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,520
Speaker 2: he walked out after visiting with you and your son,

223
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,280
Speaker 2: you had no idea you would never see him again.

224
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,280
Speaker 1: When did you learn that Christopher had been killed?

225
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,319
Speaker 11: I learned Sunday after they let his mother know what

226
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,000
Speaker 11: were you told? His best friend called me and he

227
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,720
Speaker 11: was very distraught and let me know that they had

228
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,319
Speaker 11: found Chris in the lake. And I didn't believe it,

229
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,520
Speaker 11: and I went to his mom's house, and she told

230
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,280
Speaker 11: me that the police had came and let them know

231
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,200
Speaker 11: that they had identified him in the lake and that

232
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,079
Speaker 11: you know, he was deceased, and I kind of lost

233
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:03,800
Speaker 11: it from there.

234
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:09,440
Speaker 2: Do you know, Reagan whether he had drugs or alcohol

235
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:10,160
Speaker 2: in his body?

236
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:11,080
Speaker 8: Yes?

237
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,720
Speaker 1: I do know, Diddy, Yes, you know.

238
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,280
Speaker 2: That leads me back Brianna joining me, Brianna Hollis k

239
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:25,400
Speaker 2: x A N to the scheme that apparently some women

240
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:30,640
Speaker 2: have drugging and robbing male victims and then they are

241
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:35,520
Speaker 2: found in and around Ladybird Lake. Are you familiar with

242
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,320
Speaker 2: that scheme that investigation by Austin p DA.

243
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,920
Speaker 7: In my experience, when it has come to cases similar

244
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:44,760
Speaker 7: to what you have brought up in the past two

245
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,560
Speaker 7: years that I personally have looked into, they have either

246
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:53,440
Speaker 7: been not reported to police or have been unsubstantiated, or

247
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 7: the police department has suspended the cases on the bonus

248
00:14:58,320 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 7: of the complaint.

249
00:14:59,320 --> 00:14:59,440
Speaker 13: End.

250
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,920
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm really not sure what you're saying. Are you

251
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 2: saying that you know of other cases where it's alleged

252
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:13,720
Speaker 2: victims were drugged and then robbed, but they were never prosecuted,

253
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,000
Speaker 2: whether it's because it couldn't be substantiated, or that victim

254
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,200
Speaker 2: didn't want to testify, is that what you're saying.

255
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,840
Speaker 7: I'm saying, Or because the alleged victims didn't report it

256
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,560
Speaker 7: to police at all and it was just social media

257
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,280
Speaker 7: chatter or okay, people reaching out My question.

258
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,480
Speaker 2: Do you know of cases, whether they've been prosecuted or not,

259
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:44,520
Speaker 2: where victims claim they were drugged and robbed in the area. Yeah, okay,

260
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,320
Speaker 2: let me go to doctor Kendall Crown's again, chief medical

261
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,920
Speaker 2: examiner there in Fort Worth. Doctor Crowns, I find this

262
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:56,080
Speaker 2: baffling and confusing that so many bodies have been pulled

263
00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:01,080
Speaker 2: out of Ladybird Lake, but police are continued to say

264
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:02,080
Speaker 2: it's all.

265
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 1: Just a coincidence.

266
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:07,000
Speaker 2: Could you explain to me whether in life of to

267
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,640
Speaker 2: psychology reports that it could be determined if these victims

268
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 2: had been drugged anyway.

269
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,920
Speaker 12: So the toxology of reports will tell you what drugs

270
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,600
Speaker 12: are in the system, and there are certain drugs that

271
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:23,480
Speaker 12: are used to try and coerce or to drug an

272
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,480
Speaker 12: individual like row him being I think is one of

273
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,360
Speaker 12: the date breap drugs. But if you're seeing other types

274
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,640
Speaker 12: of drugs, it may or may not have been used

275
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 12: coercely so it's difficult to say just on toxicology. The

276
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,560
Speaker 12: problem is, as you pointed out, you have many bodies

277
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,480
Speaker 12: coming from the same area in a short period of time,

278
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,240
Speaker 12: so you have to kind of wonder if they're clustering

279
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,840
Speaker 12: like that, what's going on and what's causing it. It's

280
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,360
Speaker 12: more than just a simple oh, they all happen to

281
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,400
Speaker 12: go to the same area and die. I do feel

282
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,240
Speaker 12: that that's something the Medical Examiner's office in Travis and

283
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,920
Speaker 12: the police then should be really looking at. Why are

284
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,600
Speaker 12: all these same people ending up and dead in the

285
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,520
Speaker 12: same area. There's got to be a connection.

286
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,080
Speaker 7: I'm sorry, can I say something sure? Japan, there's a

287
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:11,919
Speaker 7: lot of talk that all of these bodies have been

288
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 7: found near Rainy Street, and that isn't true. There have

289
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 7: only been I'm looking at our map right now, there

290
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 7: have only been two found near Rainy Street, where the

291
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,960
Speaker 7: victim was reported last seen on Rainy Street since twenty

292
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 7: twenty two.

293
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:24,200
Speaker 8: The rest of been in.

294
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,760
Speaker 7: All different parts of Ladybird Lake, which again, if you're

295
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,240
Speaker 7: looking at it on a map, that looks more like

296
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,560
Speaker 7: a river. So I think it's really important to note

297
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,200
Speaker 7: that all of these bodies aren't showing up near Rainy Street.

298
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,520
Speaker 1: That's good to know, Yeah, but it's not.

299
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,040
Speaker 12: Laborg Lake have a current associated with it, so those

300
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,800
Speaker 12: bodies can be being dropped at the centralized location and

301
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,800
Speaker 12: then washing down the rivers so they don't.

302
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,440
Speaker 7: Look at there that has been found upstream from Rainey

303
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 7: Streets upstream?

304
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,359
Speaker 2: Ot is that dodger Kendall crown speaking. Yes, sorry, okay,

305
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:59,240
Speaker 2: doctor Kendall Crowns. You took the words straight out of

306
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:04,159
Speaker 2: my mouth. Because the current leading into and out of

307
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:11,320
Speaker 2: and in Ladybird Lake is considerable and your analysis is correct.

308
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,000
Speaker 12: Well, that's actually one of the reasons why they don't

309
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,000
Speaker 12: want people swimming in Ladybird Lake is because the current

310
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,119
Speaker 12: is very dangerous and people that aren't very good at

311
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 12: swimming get caught in that current drown And.

312
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:24,879
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I'm looking right at it

313
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,200
Speaker 2: the map including the current, and you're right.

314
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:30,399
Speaker 1: Let me go to Alan.

315
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 2: Bennett, former felony prosecutor now partner at Gunter Bennett and

316
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,760
Speaker 2: anthis at GBA firm dot com.

317
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:41,280
Speaker 1: Alan, I mean here, a former felony prosecutor like myself.

318
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 2: If you're prosecuting this case or investigating it, do you

319
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 2: really care if the victim is pushed into the water

320
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,920
Speaker 2: or dumped upstream in the lake or downstream.

321
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,280
Speaker 1: Do you care? It's a series.

322
00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:03,240
Speaker 2: Of young men of men dead in and around Lady

323
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:08,119
Speaker 2: Bird Lake. So I appreciate the distinction, and it sounds

324
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 2: like a wonderful distinction a veteran defense attorney might make

325
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:18,320
Speaker 2: at trial. But I have handled serial murder cases. I

326
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,760
Speaker 2: have argued them to the Georgia Supreme Court. One of

327
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,200
Speaker 2: the first ones. You'll like this for its analogy to

328
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,680
Speaker 2: the current case Alan Bennett. Was a string of young

329
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:34,639
Speaker 2: black males that were killed in Atlanta, everyone within a

330
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:40,439
Speaker 2: certain age range, everyone African American, everyone killed with I

331
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 2: believe it was a thirty six caliber in the head

332
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 2: in the middle of a sex act, or so police thought.

333
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 2: But yet no one would say serial killer. Well, it

334
00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 2: was a serial killer who would lure these young guys

335
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,919
Speaker 2: out of a bar, go out to have sex and

336
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 2: kill them.

337
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 1: Why. I don't know.

338
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 2: Did he hate himself, did he hate them? I don't know,

339
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,439
Speaker 2: and I don't care why. But he was a serial killer.

340
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 2: Ever the longest time, nobody would say serial killer. And

341
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,479
Speaker 2: I don't know why. But when you have this many bodies,

342
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 2: whether they're up straight, in the lake or downstream. They

343
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 2: all have to be examined very closely.

344
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 4: Alan, Yes, ma'am, I would agree. I think topsychology reports

345
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,199
Speaker 4: need to be done on all of those folks. And

346
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 4: I can't speak to this investigation directly in I can't

347
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,119
Speaker 4: speak great toe, but having worked with APD for the

348
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,680
Speaker 4: last thirty seven years now, both as a prosecutor and

349
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 4: in frinch arning, one thing I see across the board,

350
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,080
Speaker 4: and I'm sure you've seen us as well, answer across

351
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 4: the board in law enforcement. Any detective, investigator, a forensic analyst, officer,

352
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 4: everyone across the board. Good detective work dictates that you

353
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 4: work the facts, not the theory, and I've heard that

354
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 4: countless times. I suspect APD may take the position that

355
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 4: this isn't necessarily a coincidence. There is a common thread

356
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,399
Speaker 4: to all these. We have a bunch of young people

357
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 4: and a very very well working entertainment district here in Austin,

358
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 4: a bunch of bunch of alcohol. They're very close to

359
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 4: a very dangerous body of water with a strong current.

360
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 4: They would say that it's coincidental. There are a number

361
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 4: in such a short period of time. And I'll be

362
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 4: the first to admit the number of bodies found in

363
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 4: such a short period of time. There's the old adage

364
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 4: where there is smoke, there is fire. That's a lot

365
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 4: a lot of smoke. But I think former specialized of

366
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 4: friends will hopefully agree with me. You have to work

367
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,919
Speaker 4: the facts and not the theory. The facts and the

368
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 4: clues will help you develop the theory. The theory doesn't

369
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 4: help you develop facts. And it may very well be

370
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 4: as Miss Hollismans and the Long Ago APD. They close

371
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 4: cases that they will also administratively close the case, which

372
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,160
Speaker 4: basically means we're just not doing anything right now. Now

373
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 4: we don't have any lease to follow, we don't have

374
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 4: any and where this is taking us, they're not going

375
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 4: to go more. If additional evidence comes up, as doctor

376
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 4: Brown to mention, absolutely, they'll reopen that case if they

377
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 4: can find that common thread, and they as well be

378
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 4: the currently APD is not finding the common thread that

379
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 4: our intuition tells us must be there, should be there,

380
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,959
Speaker 4: and it must be something more than simply young folks

381
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,880
Speaker 4: bunch of alcohol close to a body of water.

382
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 2: Now I know why you wont so many cases, Alan Bennett.

383
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 2: I agree with everything that you just said. But for

384
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 2: Austin ployees to just come out and announce there isn't

385
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 2: a serial killer at this juncture, I think is highly,

386
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 2: highly premature and a risk to the public because we.

387
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: Really don't know.

388
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 2: And you're right, you've got to follow the facts before

389
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 2: you develop a theory. Another thing you said that I

390
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 2: think should be very comforting to Miss Reagan Apodicio, the

391
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 2: mother to victim Christopher Clark's twelve year olds, is that

392
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 2: the cases are not closed in the TV sense, in

393
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 2: the street vernacular sense of the word. They are closed

394
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 2: as in, we've had a dead end, we're not giving up. Well,

395
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: you don't have anywhere to go right now. And I

396
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 2: got to tell you something, Reagan. When I became a

397
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 2: felony prosecutor, I inherited a courtroom, a very very busy

398
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 2: felony courtroom in inner city Atlanta, and I inherited about

399
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty pending cases while getting about one

400
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 2: hundred new cases every week or so.

401
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: So the case isn't gone, it's not done.

402
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 2: It's closed for now until new evidence emerges. And that's

403
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 2: why we are talking about this case today. I want

404
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 2: to go to doctor Dana Anderson forensics psychologist, host of

405
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 2: Killer Psychologist podcast, and you can find doctor Dana at

406
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 2: Killer Psychologist. Doctor Dana, thank you for being with us.

407
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 2: Why do you believe police don't want to even entertain

408
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 2: discussion of a serial killer in Austin.

409
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 13: Well, one reason is you don't want to brighten the public.

410
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 13: You want to create that sense of safety. And maybe

411
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 13: they do have more information and they don't want the

412
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 13: public to know about it. They don't want to create

413
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 13: that panic and fear. Although too late, that's actually already

414
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 13: happening if you scour the internet, and even this morning,

415
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 13: I went online and looked at the bars on Rainy Street,

416
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 13: the sidebar, and there's hundreds of reviews saying don't go

417
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 13: out to these places, you're going to get drugged. And

418
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 13: there's lots of information on the internet about these individuals

419
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 13: that have gone missing, and a lot of speculation and theories.

420
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 13: So there is panic and people want answers, and it

421
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 13: is concerning hear that cases are being closed to prematurely.

422
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: Agree agree, and again based on what Alan Bennett was

423
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 2: just explaining, the cases may not be closed in the

424
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: layperson understanding, they're closed as in, we don't have any

425
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 2: updates right now, we're waiting for more evidence to be uncovered.

426
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: It would not be the first.

427
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 2: Time by any stretch that a serial killer stalked an area,

428
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: while police steadfastly deny any such apparition as a serial killer.

429
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut sixteen A. This is

430
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 2: Dave Mack from Crime Online discussing a recent spate of murders.

431
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 2: For the longest time, police refused to acknowledge a serial

432
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: killer alert to the area.

433
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 6: Listen with Eric Opania's description of the man, the make

434
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 6: and model of the truck. Authorities were able to identify

435
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 6: Border Patrol Agent one David Ortiz as their suspect. As

436
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 6: authorities mobilized to look for one David or Tees, they

437
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 6: couldn't find him. After paying his escape from Martese officers

438
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 6: only knew of victims Melissa Ramirez and Claudine Duerra, but

439
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 6: while they were chasing after him, they heard about a

440
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 6: third body that had been found later identified as thirty

441
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 6: five year old Gizelda Elisa Hernetez can too. Believing Ortiz

442
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 6: will return to the home he shares with his wife

443
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 6: and children, authorities head to his home, hoping to avoid

444
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 6: an armed confrontation.

445
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 2: That's right, the border patrol agent was in fact a

446
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 2: serial killer, and if police had acknowledged that these women

447
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: were dropping like flies at the hands of serial killer,

448
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 2: that last victim may very well have been saved. And

449
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: that's certainly not the only one. The same thing happened

450
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:42,959
Speaker 2: in Oregon.

451
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 6: Listen weeks after saying the deaths of several women were

452
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 6: not linked to one murderer, investigators and prosecutors say they're

453
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 6: working together on the evidence that now links one person,

454
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 6: jesse Lee Calhoun, to at least four of the murdered women.

455
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 6: Kristin Smith reported missing December twenty second, twenty twenty two,

456
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 6: dead eight weeks later in Portland. Twenty two year old

457
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 6: Ashley Real reported missing in Portland April second, twenty twenty three,

458
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 6: found dead five weeks later in CLACKHAMUS County. Charity Perry

459
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 6: twenty four, found dead in East Molknomah County. Bridget Leanne

460
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 6: Ramsey Webster thirty one, found dead in Paul County April thirtieth,

461
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 6: twenty twenty three. Jesse Lee Calhoun has not been charged yet,

462
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 6: but he remains a person of interest.

463
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: In many instances we see where cops don't want to

464
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: alarm the public, but in fact that's hurting the public

465
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 2: because they're not aware that there could be a serial

466
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: killer lurking among them. Prime stories with Nancy Grace, let

467
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: me go back to you, doctor Kendall, Crown's chief medical

468
00:27:54,080 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 2: examiner Terran County. Let's talk about potential drugging of the victims.

469
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on any way to link some

470
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 2: of these victims together. For instance, a date rape drug

471
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 2: could be used like I believe it was used in

472
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 2: the Natalie Holloway case. Or victims could be watched or party.

473
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 2: They could be partying with the victim and when they

474
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 2: pull out their own drugs, that's a perfect chance to

475
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 2: rob them or kill them. So I'm trying to figure

476
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 2: out all the various mos mos operandi method of operation

477
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 2: a killer could utilize in this scenario. So where would

478
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: a medical examiner fit into this puzzle to help link

479
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: victims potentially?

480
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 12: So what you can do is when you have a

481
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 12: string of victims all from the same area, or you

482
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 12: start looking for similarities, you know, as they have a

483
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 12: similar pattern and bruising where they similarly tied up, things

484
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 12: of that nature. If you're worried about a drug, someone

485
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 12: drugging them and then you know, jumping them. Look for

486
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 12: similar if they have similar toxlogic findings, because the serial killer,

487
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 12: if you will, isn't going to be switching up drugs

488
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 12: between victims. They're going to go with what works and

489
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 12: then continue to use it. So if the medical exambler

490
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 12: has noticed you have a cluster of bodies from the

491
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 12: same area and they all have the same drugs on board,

492
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 12: then you have a very obvious issue.

493
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: Now I've been looking at a lot of the victims

494
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: and Brianna Hollis may.

495
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: Be able to help me out here.

496
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: Kaxa in News again, thank you for being with us.

497
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: So many of the victims and of course to my knowledge,

498
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: they're dating back to two thousand and eight, but some

499
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 2: of them had facial bruising, some of them had broken bones.

500
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: I don't really understand how that can fit into an

501
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: accidental death scenario. But what can you tell me about

502
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: the most recent victims, Brianna.

503
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 7: So obviously we had a case this week where where

504
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 7: a body was pulled from Ladybird Lake. This was near

505
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 7: City Hall, which is northwest of Rainey Street upstream. How

506
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 7: far from Rainey Street, probably about a mile and a

507
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:16,239
Speaker 7: half or so two miles and this was identified as

508
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 7: a female. That's all the information we have at the moment. Again,

509
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 7: this just happened this week, so it's common to not

510
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 7: you know, we obviously don't have the toxicology report all

511
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 7: tops of you report any of that back yet, but

512
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 7: that is what we know at the moment of this case. Otherwise,

513
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 7: like I said, most of my reporting has been on

514
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 7: the cases dating back to July of twenty twenty two.

515
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 7: I'm looking at our map and our chart here right now,

516
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 7: all kind of what you guys have been talking about.

517
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 7: Accidental drowning, cause of death undetermined. There's two cases I

518
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 7: do want to bring up the and before I get

519
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 7: into that, I do want to mention that, of course,

520
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 7: every death is a tragedy, no matter how it happened.

521
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 7: So I go into these details with you know, the

522
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 7: utmost level of respect and sensitivity for the family members

523
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 7: of these victims. Just wanted to put that out there.

524
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 7: But two of the cases that sparked a lot of

525
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 7: alarm last year were the Jason John case and the

526
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 7: Jonathan Honey case.

527
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 8: These were two instances, the only.

528
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:28,479
Speaker 7: Two incidents in my reporting since I've gotten here where

529
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 7: the victim was actually last seen on Rainey Street. And

530
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 7: in the two cases of toxicology reports found no drugs

531
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 7: but found alcohol. And then in the Jonathan Honey case

532
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 7: they found drugs consistent with over the counter I believe

533
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 7: allergy medicine.

534
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 2: Okay, so those two victims on Rainey Street did not

535
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 2: have anything such as GHB, gamma hydroxy viewed right or

536
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: another potentialitive. But to you, doctor Kendall Crowns, in this scenario,

537
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 2: if people are getting guys or women to party, getting

538
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: them drunk, getting them to use drugs, and killing them,

539
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: I don't know that drugs would be in their system.

540
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,959
Speaker 12: Well, if they're getting them drunk or in any if

541
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 12: they aren't getting them drunk, then yes, or giving them drugs,

542
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 12: of course there wouldn't be drugs in their system. But

543
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 12: if they're giving them anything, it should show up on

544
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 12: the toxicology. But of course you could lure them away

545
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 12: into those areas and then strangle theomen, push them into

546
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,719
Speaker 12: the river, or whatever you're doing to them.

547
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 4: Who knows at this form you.

548
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 2: Know another issue, And let me go to Dennis Franks

549
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 2: on this former FBI special agent now with Investigative and

550
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: Security Global Solutions, Dennis. So many people assume that theft

551
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 2: would be the motive. With a serial killer, that's not

552
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 2: necessarily the motive. The joy of killing is very often

553
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: the motive.

554
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 10: I agree, and no, I'm not a behavioral science expert,

555
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 10: but yet you know these I do not see theft

556
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,479
Speaker 10: as being a situation where somebody gets robbed and then

557
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 10: they kill them and throw them in the lake.

558
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 8: I would go on.

559
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 10: To say that assuming that the Austin Police Department has

560
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 10: a behavioral science unit or experts trained in that they

561
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 10: should be looking at this, looking at any patterns anything

562
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 10: at all, coordinating with the FBI's behavioral science unit, looking

563
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 10: at statistics nationwide, and looking for any clues at all

564
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 10: that might whether or not they're going to admit that

565
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 10: this might be a serial killer. They should be doing this,

566
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 10: and I would hope they are.

567
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 2: All I've been in joining us former felony prosecutor joining

568
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: us out of Austin. You've handled so many homicide cases,

569
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 2: but in serial killer cases, I mean John Wayne Gacy.

570
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 2: He didn't steal from victims, He molested them, then he

571
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 2: killed them and buried him in his crawls base off

572
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: his basement.

573
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy, he didn't rob.

574
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: While many serial killers do take a mento like jewelry,

575
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: or they might take a driver's license or a hair

576
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 2: rib and or underwear. Theft is not the motivator. For

577
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 2: for instance, Ted Bundy, I could go on and on

578
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: and on, like Ortiz the Border patrol Ation, he hated prostitutes,

579
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: so he killed them. The Boston Strangler, for Pete's sake,

580
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: he did rob the victims. He hated them because they

581
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 2: were prostitutes. So motivation for serial killers is not, by

582
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 2: far always theft.

583
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 4: I agree Answering. In fact, I'm not sure that I'm

584
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 4: aware of any serial killer in history who was in

585
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 4: fact motig back up and then again, how they come

586
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 4: A special agent Priance could give us a better startisip.

587
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 4: But my understanding is that at any given time, the

588
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 4: FBI believe there are only about fifty serial killers operating

589
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 4: within the United States.

590
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 8: M M.

591
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 4: Because our lady mentioned a moment ago, if that is

592
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 4: the most is most prevalent crime, that's the most important crime.

593
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 4: Serial killers are not. I think I think you're right.

594
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 4: All the serial killers you mentioned, they are a special

595
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 4: breed of people. And they may collect souvenirs, they may

596
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 4: take momentos from the victims, but they're not they're not

597
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 4: robbing their victims. In fact, I'm not even sure if

598
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 4: there's any evidence that any of the bodies have been

599
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,240
Speaker 4: pulled from the lake or in fact victims of robbery

600
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 4: or theft. I'm not sure if any of those bodies

601
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 4: were pulled that had their wallet impact had their money

602
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 4: still in their wallet. I'm not sure if there's any

603
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 4: association or any connection of theft.

604
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: Brianna Hollis, what about it? K x An, Have any

605
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: of these victams been robbed?

606
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 7: Not to nine knowledge the ones I've covered.

607
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: There you go, Alan Bennett, what you're saying is really

608
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 2: interesting to me because I disagree with the FBI, and

609
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 2: I certainly don't want to poke the bear. It's like

610
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 2: having a tiger by the tail. You can't hold on

611
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: and you can't let go. But it'll be a cold

612
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 2: day in HG. Double l that there is only fifty

613
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 2: serial killers in America right now. No, they may only

614
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 2: know of fifty serial killers in America, but I guarantee

615
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 2: you that is woefully, woefully under reported. Another body in

616
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 2: Lady Bird Lake. Listen to our cut six Dave matt

617
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 2: Crime Online.

618
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 6: The recent discovery of another body in lady Bird Lake

619
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 6: in Austin brings the total number of bodies found in

620
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 6: the lake in the last year to six. Ladybird Lake

621
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 6: is a portion of the Colorado River that runs through

622
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 6: downtown Austin, so there have been at least five other

623
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,879
Speaker 6: bodies pulled from the lake in the last year, while

624
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 6: ben in and around their thirties. In each case, the

625
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 6: victim had been drinking on or nearby Rainy Street in

626
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 6: downtown Austin, just a thirty five minute walk to Ladybird

627
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 6: Lake is a rackus bar and food truck area with

628
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 6: a long standing reputation for crime. One theory loading around

629
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 6: is that people are in danger of having their drink

630
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 6: spiked so they can be robbed or worse.

631
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 2: The victims that we know of riad hamad Cole Christensen,

632
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: Fernando Ortiz, Luis Ramerez, Martin Gutierrez, Ricky Parks, Kyle Thornton, Jason,

633
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 2: John Clifton, Oxtail, Jonathan Honey, John Christopher Hayes, Clark, Mogo Degol,

634
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: and one unidentified female to you joining us Breonna Hollis,

635
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: k X A N I'm curious as to the physical

636
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 2: appearance of the victims.

637
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: What can you tell me about that? Are they similar

638
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: in appearance?

639
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 7: That's something I don't know directly. The only information that

640
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:56,439
Speaker 7: we've gotten from police regarding this was just difficulties when

641
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 7: it comes to the autopsy and the investigations because of

642
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 7: you know, bodies being in the water with you know,

643
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 7: bloating and decomposition and whatnot.

644
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,919
Speaker 2: Many of them are light complected with dark hair. That's

645
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 2: my observation so far. And as you know, to Dennis

646
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: Frank's former FBI now in security, serial killers typically kill

647
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 2: within their own race. Also, they have a type a

648
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 2: type of victim to which they gravitate. I mean, if

649
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 2: you look at Ted Bundy's victims, they all look like thin,

650
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 2: white females with dark hair, part of down the middle.

651
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 2: There are a few variations, but that's what you find

652
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 2: very very often.

653
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: What do you make of that, Dennis.

654
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 8: Franks, Yeah, I think that's true.

655
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 10: I think they're usually a pattern of the victims with

656
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 10: serial killers. And I've been looking at that in these

657
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 10: unfortunate does and it does seem that the victims do

658
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 10: have that picture of look, you know, it doesn't seem

659
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 10: for sure. You know, certainly there's not random you know,

660
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 10: victims or or people who have found that of different uh,

661
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 10: you know, different looks. And so that's a factor that

662
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 10: I think is important in this because you're going to

663
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 10: look at any pattern you can, and that's an important pattern,

664
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 10: and then you're going to look for other commonalities. And

665
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 10: you know, it's it's a mystery that they may not

666
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 10: say that it's, you know, a serial killer, but they

667
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 10: have to be looking at it. I just can't see

668
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 10: why they wouldn't.

669
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 2: I am looking at a picture of Christopher Clark right now.

670
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 2: Reagan Aparicio is joining us, the mother of Christopher's son,

671
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 2: twelve years old. Rigan, what is your message today?

672
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 11: My message today is to the city of our state

673
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 11: into the Austin Police Department. I really just want to say,

674
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 11: shame on them because as they're stating that these individuals

675
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 11: are just.

676
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 8: Going to the lake, whether they're drunk, have drugs in

677
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 8: their system. If that's the case, if that's the picture

678
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 8: they're trying.

679
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 11: To paint, then why are they not doing anything as

680
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 11: far as safety. I'm an Austin nite, Chris was an

681
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 11: Austin nite and my son was an Austin Nite.

682
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 8: We grew up here, we all still live here.

683
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 11: They're not doing anything to protect, to put protection.

684
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 8: Around their lake.

685
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 11: There's no barriers, there's nothing, there's no patrol, there's nothing.

686
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 8: So for them to sit here and.

687
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 11: Say that you know, there's no serial killer, there is

688
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 11: nothing happening. They can't find any connections to any of

689
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 11: the individuals. I think that's very wrong, and I just

690
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 11: want them to understand that my son does not have

691
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 11: his dad anymore.

692
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 8: That was his best friend.

693
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 11: He's never going to get that back ever, So shame

694
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 11: on them.

695
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: Having relied on police.

696
00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:02,439
Speaker 2: Officers my entire prosecuting career, I find many of them

697
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 2: to be the most honorable people I've met. In this case,

698
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 2: I strongly urge a second look. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye,

699
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 2: saying