1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and a come to 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: Stuff I'll Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. And today 3 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: we are bringing back the episode we did on cyberstalking 4 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: and sextortion. 5 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: Because I have seen a lot. 6 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: Of stuff in the news lately, especially as AI proliferates 7 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: about how this has changed and around, like deep fakes 8 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: women and revenge porn, which I think we're going to 9 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:42,919 Speaker 1: have to come back and talk about, but even not 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: revenge porn, and just how it's changing the pornography industry 11 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: and romance scamps because we've talked kind of about how 12 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: I have sat down with my mom and said, you 13 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: know what, I speak on the internet for a living. 14 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: AI could call you make these threats. We're using my 15 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: voice or something, but it is also happening in the 16 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: romance scam world. So I think we're gonna have to 17 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: come back and revisit these topics. But before we do that, 18 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Andy and Samantha. 19 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: I'm welcome to stef I've Never Told your protection of iHeartRadio. 20 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: I have a very simple question for you today, Samantha, 21 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: do you put tape over your webcam? 22 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 3: So I used to put post it notes over my 23 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 3: webcam the new computer I've got. 24 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 4: You actually have a little button and you could just 25 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 4: slide it over so it covers up. Oh yeah, okay, yeah, 26 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 4: so I do that. 27 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: This is that kind of I mean, that's nice, but 28 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: also very telling of our times and what we're. 29 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: Talking about today. Yep, I have tape over mine. 30 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: I didn't have it for a while because I got 31 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: a new laptop, but then I was researching this episode 32 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: and in the middle of it, I went and found tape. 33 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 4: It's in starting for sure. 34 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Yeah. 35 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: And with that being said, today we are talking about 36 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: cyber stalking and sex stortion, So trigger warning for some 37 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: abusive behavior, some controlling behavior and stalking and yeah, sexual 38 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: abuse and domestic violence. 39 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 2: I dat that in there. And this has been on 40 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: my mind because, as. 41 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: I spoken about on the show, I recently lost my 42 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: phone and I did Samantha Nose, I did all kinds 43 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: of things to try to find it. I was like 44 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: text this thing to my phone, and I was doing 45 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: the you know, Google FID on my phone, and I 46 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,839 Speaker 1: was looking online because you know, everything was like it's 47 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: easy to find your lost phone, but and it would 48 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: say you have to install, install this before you lost it. 49 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: But while I was desperately searched for a way to 50 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: find my phone, I ran across so many of these 51 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: top Google search suggestions of things like how to spy 52 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: on your wife, how to find out if your wife 53 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: is cheating, so many apps to install secretly on someone's phone. 54 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: And this is like within the first two pages of Google. 55 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: When I'm like, I want to find my lost phone, 56 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: this is what was coming up and I have I've 57 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: talked about it before, I know, on an episode we 58 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: did with bridget about how this is a new genre 59 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: of horror that really freaks me out, this whole kind 60 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: of cnyper stalking, spying thing. There's that whole really disturbing 61 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: Black Mirror episode about it. For some reason, I'm reading 62 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: a creepy fan fiction about it that really disturbs me. 63 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: I wasn't and I didn't know that so where it 64 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: was going to go, But it did, and now I 65 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: can't stop reading. 66 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 2: So I don't know what do about that. 67 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: And then I don't know if you do this matha 68 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: But I talked to like the man that watches me 69 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: as in like in theory this like government, poor government, 70 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: SAP that is like, Wow, she's reading more fan fiction. 71 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 4: I did not do that. 72 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: You don't talk to your the poor sphy. That's society. 73 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 3: But I have a dog to talk to, soh okay 74 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 3: replaces that. 75 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I got yeah, I got it. 76 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: And then I was thinking about this today because our 77 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: company has some pretty big brother type policies. 78 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 2: So hello, big brother company. 79 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 4: Yes. 80 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: I used to have a friend who worked at a 81 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: company in our building, and they had to put in 82 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: a flash drive every time when they arrived to work 83 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: so that the flashive would record everything they every website, 84 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: they did everything they did in the computer, and then 85 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: they would take out the flash drive and turn it 86 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: back in so they could look at what was on there. 87 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: And it's just one of those things where that could 88 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: be abused so easily. 89 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, especially the work we do, could you imagine? 90 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 3: Oh oh lord, we just talked about the fact like 91 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 3: we had the virginity up episode, We've had organic episodes, 92 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 3: We've had Staler women who Kill episodes. Yea, all those 93 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 3: are really concerning. If you just saw like, are you 94 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 3: looking up like nothing, I'm find for QAnon all of 95 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 3: those things. 96 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: Right right, we would we would raise some suspicions. 97 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 3: For sure, well, I would also as a social worker 98 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 3: go into like kids sites and look to make sure 99 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 3: I can find people see if I can stop them, 100 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 3: like I have to try to hunt them down and 101 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 3: make sure they're okay. I had to go into kids 102 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 3: sites when they would post like sexual explicit stuff like 103 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 3: you have to take this down. 104 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 4: This is you know, child porn stuff like that. 105 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 3: So I, oh, god, yeah. 106 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 4: And talk about stalking stop. 107 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: I try not to think about it too much. And 108 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 2: I know it's like a running joke. 109 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: And I even texted my friend and was like, if 110 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: I die, you know, destroy my computer, destroying my search 111 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: history and work stuff aside. I think people would be 112 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: they would give me some wiggle room for that. But 113 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: even like, think the stuff I do isn't that people 114 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised if the fan fiction. 115 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 2: Like no, I don't know, but I still wanted. 116 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 3: I was like, clease, it's kind of like I have 117 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 3: a setup, and likef I disappear, you go to these places, 118 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 3: take these things and get rid of those things, not 119 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 3: because or anything. 120 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 4: Bad, but I'm more embarrassed. 121 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 2: Right exactly. It's the embarrassment you're not there to defend. 122 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: Yourselves, That's right, that's how I feel too, and it 123 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: makes you sound so much shadier. 124 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 4: We're not hiding anything else. 125 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 2: No, no, definitely not. 126 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 4: So. 127 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: We have done past episodes on stalking. Check those out 128 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: if you want to learn more. We did also discuss 129 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: a lot of what we're going to be talking about 130 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: in our grooming episode and the recent episode we did 131 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: with bridget about online harassment. All of that's kind of 132 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: about play in this conversation, and then I did want 133 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: to put this in here. Earlier in twenty twenty one, 134 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: over thirty women sued the website porn Hub and their 135 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: parent company mind Geek for operating as a quote, classic 136 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: criminal enterprise and hosting and profiting from content that, according 137 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: to them, is non consensual that may involve child pornography, 138 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: sex trafficking, and rape and sexual assault. The lawsuit claims 139 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: that the site and the company behind it allowed for 140 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: the posting, incentivization, and monetization of this content. In the 141 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: words of one of the attorneys representing the plaintiffs, the 142 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: case is not about consensual porn or negligence. It's about 143 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: a porn company's intentional election to include in their business 144 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: model rape and other non consensual content. The lawsuit alleges 145 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: that the company purchased bolt content from sex traffickers and 146 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: hit it under shell corporations. Some girls report being pressured 147 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: by boyfriends to send videos of them undressing, which then 148 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: got posted. So that is also part of what we're 149 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: going to be talking about. And this is a complicated 150 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: situation that often gets oversimplified. Of course, any of this 151 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: content they're talking about should get taken down, and porn 152 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: Hub should be held accountable for the content they host. 153 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: But at the same time, you do get conservative groups 154 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: to crying porn in general, that muddy is the whole thing. 155 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: And we've talked about that before. You see that with 156 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 2: like qubanon and all that stuff. 157 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, this is not exactly what we're talking about today, 158 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: but we are talking about things that allow for stuff 159 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: like this to happen. 160 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 3: Right, So let's get into the basics. Yes, what is 161 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 3: cyber stalking? According to Marshall, cyberstocking refers to the use 162 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 3: of the Internet, email, or other telecommunication technologies to harass 163 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 3: or stalk another person. It's not the mere annoyance of 164 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 3: an unsolicited email. 165 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 4: We get all those. 166 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 3: We know that it is methodical, deliberate, and persistent. The communication, 167 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 3: whether from someone known or unknown, do not stop even 168 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 3: after the recipient has asked the sender to cease all contacts, 169 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 3: and are often filled with inappropriate and sometimes really disturbing content. 170 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 3: Cyberstocking is an extension of the physical form of stalking. 171 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: Yes, and it's related to sex stortion, which is a 172 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: term that first started popping up in twenty ten, though 173 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: it may have first appeared in nineteen fifty. The DOJ 174 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: addressed it in twenty eleven and the FBI cautioned about 175 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: it in twenty twelve. So this is when someone threatens 176 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: to release sensitive information, images, or videos unless the target 177 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: sends nude pictures, performs a sexual favor, pays them some money, 178 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: becomes a quote, camslave, things like that, maybe a mixture 179 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: of all those things. Both of these cyberstocking and sextortion 180 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: do more directly impact girls and women. Experts estimate that 181 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: the number of people affected by cyberstocking is in the 182 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: tens of thousands, but could be in the hundreds of thousands. 183 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, there were sixteen, nine hundred and seventy 184 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: four complaints of cyberstocking filed with the FBI. Only sixteen 185 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: were prosecuted. The FBI has reported to recent uptick in 186 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: cases that fall under federal cyberstocking laws, although that's kind 187 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: of complicated. 188 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 2: There's no real federal cyberstocking law. We'll get into that. 189 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: There are things that it falls under the head of 190 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,719 Speaker 1: the Homeland Security investigation. Since here in Atlanta said when 191 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: asked about this, predators used to stop playgrounds. 192 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 2: This is the new playground, right. 193 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest problems that we've talked 194 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 3: about this before is that the laws cannot keep up 195 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 3: with technology. I guess something that probably can do bit. 196 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 3: So while we often think of women being the victims 197 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 3: of sextortion, men and boys are not immune. They may 198 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 3: be enticed into performing sex acts in front of webcams 199 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 3: with an attractive woman who may herself be coerced, unaware 200 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 3: they are being recorded, and they are all then threatened 201 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 3: with this release of the footage and often very often 202 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 3: shane for it and guilted into it, and this has 203 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 3: in some cases led to suicide. 204 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 4: We know some of our teen deaths because of this. 205 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 3: In some cases, male perpetrators have impersonated significant others to 206 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 3: trick women into sending them sexual videos. 207 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: Yes, and many perpetrators target women and girls who are 208 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: expiring actors and models under the guise of offering them 209 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: a role. Others would it as celebrities such as Justin 210 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: Bieber to demand at nude pictures from young girls. Sometimes 211 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: they edit the material to look as though they've posted 212 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: compromising images or videos to porn sites, so they'll make 213 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: it look like they did. Maybe they actually didn't, but 214 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: they'll send you something that makes you think that they did. 215 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: And many people who perpetrate these acts report that it 216 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: is all about power, feeling like you are controlling someone 217 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: and it's really heartbreaking to read, like the text exchanges 218 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: of you know, a young girl being like you're ruining 219 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: my life, please stop, and they're like no, why, really 220 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: really heartbreaking And yeah, as an actor, I've seen this. 221 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 1: And our agent will send out messages and be like, 222 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: if you get the message from this guy, he has 223 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: nothing to do with anything in movie or film. He's 224 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: just asking for pictures of people and that's just a 225 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: part of our business. It's like a message that goes 226 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 1: out two people in an occupation. 227 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: It's just odd. 228 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: Cyber bullying is a part of this conversation. Two and 229 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:06,359 Speaker 1: some argue that cyber stocking is a form of cyber bullying. 230 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: So a lot of times when you look up cyberstocking, 231 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: you'll end up in cyber bullying websites that have kind 232 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: of a little section about cyber stocking. 233 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 2: I do think it is, well, it's not like new, 234 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 2: it's new. 235 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: We're in terms of people really trying to combat it 236 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: or think about how we can protect ourselves from it, 237 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: and how big of an issue that it is. Right, 238 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: So we do have some more numbers and specifics for you, 239 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: but first we have a quick break for a word 240 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:34,839 Speaker 1: from our. 241 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 2: Sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor. 242 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: So, just like stocking, cyber stocking is usually perpetrated by 243 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: someone the victim knows co workers, exes, significant others, and friends. However, 244 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: like I was saying before, this is still kind of new, 245 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: especially in terms of data collection, and so some places 246 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: say that kind of the opposite thing, where it's somebody 247 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: who has this. 248 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 2: Freedom of the internet can do it from wherever. 249 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: So it makes sense to me that it would be 250 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: someone you know, but also makes sense that it would 251 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: be somebody who's just looking for someone to target women 252 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: aged between eighteen to thirty are the most common targets. 253 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: Once that, he found that sex stortion in particular victimizes 254 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: children under eighteen at our rate of seventy one percent 255 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: compared to stoking. Some experts argue that because of things 256 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: like the lack of obstacles, instant gratification, lack of need 257 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: to be in the same geographic location, and difficulty to prosecute, 258 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: cyberstalking is more common and more attractive for perpetrators. Sextortionists 259 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: are almost all male, many are repeat offenders. Most do 260 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: not adhere to the conditions of their sex. So if 261 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: they say send me this and then I'll give you 262 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: whatever back, most of them don't. As I learned when 263 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: looking online about how to find a lost phone, there 264 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: are so many apps out there that can be used 265 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: to spy on people, and their functionalities are terrifying, like 266 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: location tracking, remote use of camera. There's also a bunch 267 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: of apps that quote guarantee to put a stop to 268 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: cyberstocking for a price, which I can't speak to whether 269 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: or not they work or not. But I find that 270 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: really infuriating that you could be in a terrifying situation 271 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: and it's you're desperate and you go and are like, okay, 272 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: one hundred dollars will just fix this, and then might 273 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: not fix it right. 274 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 3: And that's kind of the same thing with identity fraud, 275 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 3: when we have these major corporations who decided to take 276 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 3: advantage of it and be like, pay us a monthly 277 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 3: fee and we'll write maybe right. If not, we'll help 278 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 3: you get it back, maybe we'll try. But I think 279 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 3: that's also a thing. And I know also out there 280 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 3: within the dark web there are white knights, I believe, 281 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 3: who try to come in and infiltrate systems to let 282 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 3: people be aware. So we had that situation of the 283 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 3: dude who had a camera, a ring camera, and they 284 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 3: actually started talking to each other. He was like, hey, 285 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 3: their numbers listed on the web, they can get you 286 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 3: real quick. And they had this thing, is like, what 287 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 3: change a password right now? So there's definitely that too, 288 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 3: I think a little more rare, still just as creepy maybe, 289 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 3: but a nice way. 290 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 4: I guess. 291 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, So speaking of creepy, imagine you have 292 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: a friend, our partner that knows your pen to your phone. 293 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: You leave the room for something, they could easily change 294 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: settings in your phone and saw a hidden spyware app 295 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: things like that. Sometimes these apps are called spouseware or stalkerware. 296 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: These apps are usually specifically marketed as a way to 297 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: track your spouse and catch some cheating like they're not 298 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:57,359 Speaker 1: even hiding. Others called dual use apps are not intended 299 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: to be used for cyperstalking, but things like the I 300 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: Lost my Phone app, or apps you used to keep 301 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: track of where your kids are or something like find 302 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: my Friends can be modified to track someone without their knowledge. 303 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: Google and Apple claim to have consulted domestic violence groups 304 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: to address these concerns, but most of their advice still 305 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: requires that you are the verily suspicious and aware of 306 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: the ins and outs of technology, So you would still 307 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: have to have some level of I don't trust my 308 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: friend or spouse or whatever right, which a lot of 309 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: people don't necessarily have. Because when I was looking this up, 310 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: and I've considered myself pretty technologically savvy, I was like, wait, 311 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: this is terrifying, right. 312 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 3: So, one NPR survey of eighty two domestic violence shelters 313 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 3: found that eighty five percent of them had to help 314 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 3: people with whose partners used GPS to. 315 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 4: Track their movements. 316 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 3: And by the way, we've also seen cases, murder cases, 317 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 3: quick kidnapping cases, any type of cases where detectives and 318 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 3: law enforcement actually used this as well. They tracked I 319 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 3: remember the one case they tracked a watch, a fitness 320 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 3: watch for a rape case, and there was a hole 321 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 3: back and forth about is this mating people's rights? Is 322 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 3: this constitutionally okay? Yeah, but just your and I have. 323 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 4: One of these. 324 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 3: I have a fitness watch, but it definitely locates your 325 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 3: GPS and it also shows what you're doing sort of 326 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 3: kind of tailed by the monitoring, really creepy, but I 327 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 3: use it. And then seventy five percent dealt with partners 328 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,479 Speaker 3: who spied on them with apps. And many of these 329 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 3: shelters have a digital detoc center. And if you've ever 330 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 3: seen a spy movie, you know you gotta get rid 331 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 3: of your phone. You go get it of your GPS. Yeah. 332 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: So a lot of these domestic violence shelters provide like 333 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: a what we would call like a brick phone, right, essentially, 334 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: all it does is call and that is it. So 335 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: this this NPR SETI also profiled an app called m 336 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: spy for about seventy dollars a month. This app instructs 337 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: you how to install it and then hide any trace 338 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: of it, even with a verified symbol next to it 339 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: making it look legit. It monitors text messages, call logs, 340 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: call recordings, pictures, videos, every website visited, every key type. 341 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: This allows people to figure out people's usernames and passwords. 342 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: It could be used to block phone numbers, further isolating 343 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: the victim, and location tracking all on top of that. 344 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: But one of the scariest things is the eavesdrop function. 345 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: When someone calls, whether you answer or not, the speaker 346 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: phone is activated and recording starts. So as someone who 347 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: gets like probably twenty spam calls a day, that would 348 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: be a lot a lot of eavesdropping that could happen 349 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: to me. 350 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 3: Right, So, most but not all states have laws against 351 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 3: cyber stocking, and it's recent and those that don't usually 352 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 3: they'll prosecute cyber stocking under harassment or stalking laws. There 353 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 3: isn't a federal law against cyber stocking, but there is 354 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 3: one that covers it. So so many loopholes. However, many 355 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 3: officials aren't fully up to date on the ways people 356 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 3: can be harassed and victimized using technology. We know this, 357 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 3: many of them don't even understand the technology. Many of 358 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 3: them don't believe this technology right, which makes this whole 359 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 3: thing super difficult. Many law enforcement officers don't have the resources. 360 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 4: Even though they get millions of dollars, they have lots 361 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 4: of weapons. 362 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 2: Just all that. 363 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 3: Some outlets have pointed out, the prosecution is frequently quite 364 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 3: lenient and they are even no matter what, and we've 365 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 3: seen them in way too many cases when it comes 366 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 3: to bullying. They don't even have that on record for 367 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 3: face to face bullying, so having it on internet text 368 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 3: doesn't worry, especially when you start talking about the First Amendment, 369 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 3: which is completely misinterpreted for this specifically. 370 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are so many case studies or examples 371 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: that were given in researching this, and I know we've 372 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: talked about them before, but where women would you know, 373 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: be like, I'm being cybersdoctor, this is what's happening to me, 374 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: And they would have to explain the technology, like they 375 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: would have to do this whole extra step. 376 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 2: And then kind of having yeah, this amused, like are 377 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 2: you sure this is a big response? Can't you just 378 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 2: delete it? 379 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 4: Yeah? 380 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 3: And this doesn't include the victim blaming that is associated 381 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:19,959 Speaker 3: with all of this. So immediately, if you will have 382 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 3: a sexy picture, your credibility goes out of the window. 383 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 384 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, So the technology available and the level of data 385 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: collection that happens on the Internet just at large has 386 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: played into these high numbers of cyberstocking that are yes, 387 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: continuously going up. So on top of all the things 388 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: we've talked about with phone, there's also cyberstalking online and 389 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: that can involve similar things like tracking online in stelling, 390 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: tracking apps on someone's laptop, and also yeah, access to cameras, 391 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: sending unsolicited or threatening messages, overwhelming a target of cyberstocking's 392 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 1: chat channels with messages, starting online rumors, or sharing videos 393 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: or pictures edited or not without consent, like revenge porn, blackmailing, 394 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: setting up websites that host stories that may be true 395 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: are not about the person breaking into online accounts to 396 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: pose as a person and ruin their reputation, spywear, oh, 397 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,239 Speaker 1: and even like hidden cameras in people's homes with some 398 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: audio capabilities. 399 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 2: Things like that. 400 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: All of this usually takes place over time, and it 401 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: is a very very scary experience that is yes, often dismissed. 402 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: Cyberstalking can result and negative outcomes like trouble sleeping, hyper vigilance, nightmares, 403 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: high levels of stress, trouble eating, feelings of loss of 404 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: control and safety, feelings of helplessness, fear and isolation, things 405 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: like that. 406 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's so many things. 407 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,959 Speaker 3: So online dating has also played into this, which sucks 408 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 3: because a part of dating could be sending sexypects messages 409 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 3: or videos. 410 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 4: I've never done that. Part of this is because I 411 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 4: worked in social work. I knew what was happening. 412 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 3: But since at least ninety percent of the US is 413 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 3: fifty four million single people have tried online dating, there's 414 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 3: a lot for would be cyberstogglers to mine from. And 415 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 3: thinks to the fact we're constantly tied to our phones 416 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 3: as I am, computers and other technology. There are so 417 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 3: many avenues for us to be victimized and you can 418 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 3: turn things but depend on into sources of fear and harassment. 419 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 3: And yeah, when it's on, when they have one picture, 420 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 3: it doesn't even matter, it can be there for it's 421 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 3: there forever. 422 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 4: Like I remember having to show. 423 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 3: A kid who had been sending pics of herself to 424 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 3: a boy, which I was like, this is a huge 425 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 3: say this canna come back bite if you're not careful. 426 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 3: And also the fact that you're sending a picture of 427 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 3: yourself can actually be considered child born other story, but 428 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,719 Speaker 3: having to show her that I could go back and 429 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 3: pull it up for our she was kind of like, oh, 430 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 3: so definitely it doesn't disappear. 431 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is really really unfortunate because we're not 432 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: looking to fear amonger or anything, but right just something 433 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: you should should be aware of. And it sucks. It 434 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: does because you shouldn't have to. 435 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 2: Worry about that. 436 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: If you're dating online and you do want to send 437 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: the sexy picture. It is extremely unfortunate that that is 438 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: something we have. 439 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 2: To worry about. 440 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: And yeah, a lot of people, especially people who were 441 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: like got the flooded of channels or whatever, they would 442 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: just talk about how like every notification they'd get on 443 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 1: their phone would just send this fear fear through them. 444 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: And it is something we depend on. 445 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: It is something that a lot of us use for 446 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: all kinds of fun things, so to have it turned 447 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: into that. So some experts break down cyberstalking into types. 448 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: One of the most common is emails cyberstocking. This can 449 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: involve trying to fix a relationship, start a relationship, threatening 450 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: or traumatizing it through unsolicited messages, sending viruses, or flooding 451 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: at someone's inbox. Then there's internet cyberstocking with the goal 452 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: of slandering are threatening the victim. This can involve breaking 453 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: into accounts, spoofing, sending pornographic images, and using spyware. Doxing 454 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: can fall under this too, posting private information, posing as 455 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: the victim and asking strangers for sexual activity, or building 456 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: entire websites, yes, with the intent of inviting strangers to 457 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: degrade and harass the victim. Victims have reported strangers showing 458 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: up at their door a place of work expecting sex. 459 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: In one case, over one thousand people showed up at 460 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: his home. But then there are computer cyberstalkers, stalkers who 461 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: control the victim's computer, which is. 462 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 2: Also terrifying. 463 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: Also terrifying, So we do have some advice, but first 464 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: we're going to pause for one more group brick for 465 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 1: a word term or sponsor. 466 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 2: We're back, Thank you sponsor. 467 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: So, if you suspect or have confirmed you are the 468 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: target of cyberstocking, organizations have some steps and advice to take, 469 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: which is further complicated because a lot of it's online. 470 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: So again, if you haven't already looked this up. It 471 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 1: can be something frightening or perhaps not even possible in 472 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: your home devices. Here's what Marshall recommends. Trust your instincts 473 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: and exercise caution if you have an abuser who is 474 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: good with technology. So if you notice things like difficulty 475 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,199 Speaker 1: churning off phone, or if it takes longer than normal, 476 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: an unexplained increase in your data bill, an increase in 477 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: battery changage, it could be a spyware app. Experts also 478 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: suggest checking to see if your phone is rooted or 479 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: jail broken. Backing up your phone is also a good idea. 480 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: All of this is with a caveat that a soccer 481 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: abuser may be able to see what you're doing, so 482 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: you have to take that into account and make sure 483 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: you're doing what is best for you and your particular 484 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: situation on this scurity questions. Don't answer with something guessable, 485 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: answer with something weird. I've been doing this for years. 486 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: Works for me as far as. 487 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 4: I know right. Have a safety plan in place. 488 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 3: Organizations like RAIN or the National Sexual Assault Hotline can 489 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 3: help with this, and some have quick clothes features for laptops. 490 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 3: I know there's been a lot of features that allow 491 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 3: for that and also features. 492 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 4: I could ask for help, but it looks like you're 493 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 4: talking to a friend. 494 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 3: You can also seek out a safer computer at a 495 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 3: public place if you think yours might be compromised, and 496 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 3: this is an option for you. 497 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, create new email accounts. 498 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: Look at the settings in your phone, stuff like security, GPS, 499 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: changing passwords and pin numbers. 500 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 2: When I lost my phone that. 501 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: It was like over several days, I kept thinking of 502 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: other things I had to change my password on, like 503 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: oh yeah, that one too. 504 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so yeah. 505 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: Use a corded phone for a more private conversation. Again, 506 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: if this is something you have access to, baby monitors 507 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: can be listened in on as well. 508 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 2: Get a newer donated phone. 509 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: Some crisis centers, like we said, provide these if possible. 510 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 3: Learn more about policies of agencies and companies when it 511 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 3: comes to publishing online data. We talked about options like 512 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,479 Speaker 3: delete me in a recent episode with Bridget that can 513 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 3: help you find and delete public information. Get a private 514 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 3: mailbox for communications. Do you want to keep private and 515 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 3: covering your webcam with as any does removable tape If 516 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 3: yours doesn't have the feature that allows you to just 517 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 3: shut it off. 518 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 2: Just slide it on over. 519 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, they also recommended things like using a gender neutral password, 520 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: never giving out your password. So I know a lot 521 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: of us are guilty of never giving out personal information 522 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: to a site or online entity you don't trust. And 523 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: if you have children, instruct them on these security measures too. 524 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: Don't respond to an email from an unknown person. Regularly 525 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: search your name to see what it comes up. That 526 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: takes a lot of courage, I know. But on top 527 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: of that, most organizations suggest keeping an incident log of 528 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: any communications with the cyberstalker. And yes, having these conversations 529 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: with children so they know how to stay safe online, 530 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: and something else that could help that. We talked about 531 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: a lot more data right now. The situation is seriously 532 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: understudied and misunderstood. Like as I was saying, as we 533 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: were going through this, I saw conflicting things all over the. 534 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:26,479 Speaker 3: First Yeah, I mean, when it comes to anonymity and 535 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 3: the Internet, it gives a lot of free access and 536 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 3: stuff like swatting. That's a whole different level when you 537 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 3: come to like twitch and all those things. And yeah, 538 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 3: that's the other part is there's more and more technology, 539 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 3: things like Amazon on their Alexa do in the sidewalk 540 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 3: feature but that immediate was like nope, because it shows 541 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 3: it for some reason, wants. 542 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 4: You to share with the pay strangers, and I feel like, hey, Amazon, 543 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 4: that's dumb. 544 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 3: Dumb. Also things like Google, who have been accused repeatedly 545 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 3: of data mining, as well as having companies that. 546 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 4: Are all the time act Yeah, all the. 547 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 3: Credit card companies, all the credit overseeing companies, like they 548 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 3: get all that information and identities being sold because they 549 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 3: have features like that. We're not even talking about that 550 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 3: as part of the cyberstocking because yeah, that's easily accessible. 551 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 3: We've known for a long time. If you go to 552 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 3: white Pages and you want to pay some money, you 553 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 3: can get complete access to home phone number address. 554 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 4: You just have to pay ten dollars a subscription. 555 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, which is really really absurd and quite quite alarming 556 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 3: as in fact, so that doesn't even include any of that. 557 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 3: We're talking more about the personal level. But when it 558 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 3: comes to and we've talked about this with bridget corporate 559 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 3: responsibility and no one really really actually dealing with that, 560 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 3: that's a whole different conversation. 561 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 2: It is. 562 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: It's another one of those things where so much of 563 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: the advice for giving in this is basically putting the 564 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: impetus on you and the responsibility on you to be 565 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: vigilant when you shouldn't have to be so concerned that 566 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: a company that you use got hacked right now, right, and. 567 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, we shouldn't have to pay extra money for buying 568 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 3: a service that should have been already included in the 569 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 3: service that we're paying for right right. 570 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 2: Just we'll salt you just a little. 571 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 3: Well. 572 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: Listeners, As always, we would love to hear from you. 573 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: You can email us that Stephania mom Steff at iheartmia 574 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Instagram at steff 575 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: I Never Told You or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. 576 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: Thanks as always to our super producer Christina. 577 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:35,959 Speaker 4: Thank you. 578 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening. Stephan Never Told You. The 579 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio. For more podcast from iHeartRadio. It 580 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: is a the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 581 00:30:43,160 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.