1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: Previously on After the Uprising. 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm a nineteen forty diamond job and it's a 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 2: car on fire in my working life. 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 3: Seals was found shot inside a burning car in Riverview 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 3: on Diamond Drive. 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 4: I do know that there is a lot of sentiment 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 4: in the community that they want justice, they want the truth. 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 5: You know, you still got a life that has a 9 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 5: tab on it from your past endeavors. 10 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 6: You know what I'm saying. I think he got set 11 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 6: up out of people he was in the fucking music 12 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 6: situation with. 13 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 7: I ain't never saying brusway. 14 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 8: It's like he wanted on the smoke. 15 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 5: I don't think music had anything to do with it 16 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 5: at all, at all, absolutely not. 17 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 8: That was something that I've never heard. 18 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 9: He said. A white boy came from out of the wood, 19 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 9: he said, A guy withol loan her in the toony tail, 20 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 9: A white boy. 21 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 4: That thing. 22 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: You know, a car was got. 23 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 10: What you're looking for. Is the aftermath of the grand 24 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 10: jury deciding not to indict off The. 25 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 6: Nine year old Darren Seals was murdered before his killer 26 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 6: set his car on fire. 27 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 10: Once they put out the flames, they discovered Seal's body 28 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 10: inside with a gunshop. 29 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 5: You want a gun on me, Am, I am, I 30 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 5: whats your older brothers ferguson BD grab me by my heart, 31 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 5: slam me. 32 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 8: Out the car. 33 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 5: He says, you might want you might want to pick 34 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 5: an enemy's better. 35 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 4: This is after The Uprising season two, the Murder of 36 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 4: Darren seals. 37 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm not gonna yeah, I don't want to speculate anything, 38 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 6: like I said. The only thing I can tell you 39 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 6: is we got a call for a car burning up, 40 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 6: and the fire department came and was putting a fire on, 41 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 6: discovered a body, and we turned it over to the county. 42 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 6: And but other than that, that's all I can tell you. 43 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 4: This is Jeffrey Dominguez at the time, chief of the 44 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 4: Riverview Police Department. Riverview, if you recall, is the small 45 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 4: municipality in Saint Louis County where Darren's burn body and 46 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 4: car were discovered. He is speaking with our producer John Duffy, 47 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 4: who only called to try to schedule an interview with 48 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 4: the original responding officer who had since left the department, 49 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 4: and that we couldn't locate. But then Chief Domingos just 50 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 4: started dishing information right there on the phone. 51 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 9: You said the body was in the passenger side of 52 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 9: the car, you know, I believe. 53 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 6: So I'm not one hundred percent sure, but I believe 54 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 6: it was in the passenger side of the vehicle, you know, 55 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 6: because somebody had to drive that car up there. Of 56 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 6: course he didn't because he was already deceased. So I 57 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 6: think you know what happened some am in the city. 58 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 6: They drove the car up here to one of our 59 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 6: apartment complexes with al on fire and the left. 60 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 9: And did they ever know where it came from, like 61 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 9: where he actually was shot or did you never hear 62 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 9: about it? 63 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 6: You know, I don't know, Like I said, that's because 64 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 6: I mean, after we discovered it and turned it over 65 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 6: to Crimes against Persons from Saint Louis County, I'm pretty 66 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 6: sure Saint Louis County discovered that the crime actually hit, 67 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 6: it happened in the city, so that the city took 68 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 6: over to investigation. So yeah, there's a lot more to 69 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 6: it than I can even begin. 70 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 7: To tell you. 71 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 4: Chief Dimingas indicated that the actual killing of Darren happened 72 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 4: somewhere other than the parking lot where his body was found. 73 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 4: This coincides with what the Ridgeview witness explained when he 74 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 4: said he saw Darren's jeep driven into the parking lot, 75 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 4: followed by two other vehicles. Chief Diminga's understanding is that 76 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 4: Darren was actually killed somewhere in Saint Louis City. 77 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 6: And I mean the fire department could even tell you 78 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 6: better than I can, because they're the ones that put 79 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 6: out the fire and discovered the body. So, like I 80 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 6: said once, once the Sanlois County took over, he probably 81 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 6: need to get to report and talk to like the 82 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 6: city or county. These are going to way more information 83 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 6: than I can tell you. 84 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 4: At the time of this call, we had our already 85 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 4: gotten a copy of the incident report on Darren's death 86 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 4: from Saint Louis County. What you need to remember is 87 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 4: that Riverview is a very small municipality with a small 88 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 4: police department that isn't equipped to investigate homicides. So when 89 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 4: they found that there was a body in the burning 90 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 4: car on the night of Darren's death, they called in 91 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 4: the Saint Louis County Police who could handle a murder investigation. 92 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 4: What you also need to note is that an incident 93 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 4: report is not the same thing as the final investigative report. 94 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 4: The incident report is very basic and records information such 95 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 4: as what time the nine to one one call was made, 96 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 4: what the address of the incident was, the fact that 97 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 4: there was a car fire, et cetera. It doesn't contain 98 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 4: any investigative information. And the incident report we'd gotten was 99 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 4: missing something else, something it usually would have contained, which 100 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 4: was a list of the responding officers. That section was 101 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 4: suspiciously absent. Why would that be? Like we said in 102 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 4: episode one, our relationship with the Saint Louis County Police 103 00:04:57,839 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 4: during the making of the first season of this show 104 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,559 Speaker 4: was not the best. The information officer at the time, 105 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 4: Sergeant Benjamin Granda, became less and less willing to work 106 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 4: with us as our investigation proceeded. After completing season one, 107 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 4: a lawyer suggested to us that we make a document 108 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 4: request of the department for anything mentioning my name or 109 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 4: producer John Duffy's name. So we did, and we got 110 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 4: back a handful of very interesting internal emails. John called 111 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 4: me when he got the results. 112 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 11: There's emails in there from the ones where a sunshine 113 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 11: you and I. Branda was making sure nobody talked to us, 114 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 11: including at the crime lab and everything in the warning 115 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 11: he sent out to everybody was like, I don't believe 116 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 11: these guys are on a real fact finding mission, only 117 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 11: to then say our questions are are remarkably specific and 118 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 11: not like usual media questions. 119 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 4: We're actually asking follow ups they just constantly expect, he said. 120 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 4: She said Journalism Right Information Officer Sergeant Gronda actually sent 121 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 4: a department wide memo informing other officers and staff of 122 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 4: our email addresses and phone numbers with the instructions not 123 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 4: to speak to us. This was sparked by the fact 124 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 4: that we had tried to directly contact the lead detective 125 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 4: in the case we were investigating, Detective Timothy Anderer. We 126 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 4: don't want to spoil season one for people who want 127 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 4: to go back and listen to it, so for now, 128 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 4: just know that, according to the deceased young man's mother, 129 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 4: detective Anderer was very rude to her, and she believed 130 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 4: that was because she was a well known Ferguson movement activist. 131 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 4: She thought this was confirmed by the fact that Detective 132 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 4: Anderer had been caught assaulting black protesters and bragging about 133 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 4: it on his own body game. 134 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 6: Think your Captor report should have a list of like 135 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 6: even the county guys that show up for like. 136 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 9: The kinds against. 137 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 4: Though the incident report from Saint Louis County was missing 138 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 4: a list of officers who responded to the scene of 139 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 4: Darren's death, Chief Domingo has told us that Riverview PD 140 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 4: has their own version of the incident report that would 141 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 4: include that information, and we were welcome to come and 142 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,239 Speaker 4: collect a copy that after the break. 143 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: Now back to the show. 144 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: I remember specifically meeting Amyr Indictment night. We know we've 145 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: been seeing each other, but Indictment Night, when they started 146 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: shooting the tear gas, me and a mir went and 147 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: got up on the top of a building. 148 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 8: You remember that, Amor. 149 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 12: We went across the street and got on the top 150 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 12: of a building and he was on the phone like, man, 151 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 12: they're shooting deer gas and I can't believe it. 152 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: This is Darnell Singleton and Amir Brandy. Amir is co 153 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: founder of Real STL News and his friend Darnell is 154 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: a cinematographer. They recorded the interview with the man who 155 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: lived in the Ridgeview apartments who described what he saw 156 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: go down the night Darren was killed. We're sitting in 157 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: their office getting to know each other and sharing stories 158 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: about those chaotic nights. Back in twenty fourteen when the 159 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: protest and Ferguson were just kicking off. 160 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: I don't remember the exact moment that we met, but 161 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 2: we were out there and you know, it was. 162 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 8: Just I don't know, I don't know, you know what 163 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 8: I mean. 164 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 2: It was just one of those things like where you know, 165 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: you go to the protests and you see each other. 166 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 2: What's up, man, what's happening next? I'm going downtown. I'm 167 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 2: going to you know, how did each. 168 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 4: Of you meet? I'd start to get to the Darren Cials. 169 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 9: I met Darren Sill's on the protests. On the protest protest. 170 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 9: Darren was like one of the people that used to 171 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 9: stand back and observe. He didn't say much in the field, 172 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 9: if I could use that term. 173 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: I met him in the first couple of days of 174 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: mirror of the protests, because you know, I had my 175 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 2: camera out there and at nighttime I'd had my light on. 176 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 2: And so maybe the second or third day, Spook was 177 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: shot in the head. Protester was shot in the head, 178 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 2: and Darren came over to me and he said, here, 179 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 2: I want you to make sure you get this story 180 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: out that Saint Louis County shot this girl in the head, 181 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: and they and they hid the bullet. 182 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: The woman of Mirrors talking about who is referred to 183 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: by the name Spook is Maya autten White. After one 184 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: of the protests in Ferguson, she was shot in the 185 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: head by an unknown person. 186 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 9: I was like, who is Spook. 187 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 2: You gotta meet Spook, you gotta talk to Spook. 188 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 8: He was just adamant that, you know, after Belmore. 189 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 12: Said, oh, well, you know, after five days of protest, 190 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 12: no protesters have been hurt, and. 191 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 2: Darren was living. He was like, all the hell, they haven't. 192 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 2: This girl's in the hospital now, she's been shot in 193 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 2: the head. And I was she was shot in the 194 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 2: like in the front. 195 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 9: Of the head. Yeah, yeah, I baby remember that. 196 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 2: And somehow the bullet magically disappeared when they removed it 197 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 2: from her from stall and Darren was he was upset 198 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 2: about that because you know, that was a deliberate attempt 199 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 2: to suppress what it happened to him, what I really had. 200 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 8: Yeah, and that's you know, that's how I've met Darren. 201 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 9: And he came up to me and he was like, 202 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 9: you got to. 203 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 8: Get this out. 204 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: During the Ferguson protests, Darren seals had been very critical 205 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: of outsiders who he thought were trying to co opt 206 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: the movement for their own purposes. Though it may seem 207 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: counterintuitive to people not from Saint Louis, especially so many 208 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: years later, but in the early chaos that was the 209 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: Ferguson Uprising, or what might be better simply referred to as 210 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: the movement, Black Lives Matter was not an organic outgrowth 211 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: of local activism. In fact, the people behind what was 212 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: at the time a small and little known organization, Black 213 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: Lives Matter, was made up of outsiders, and Darren was 214 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: very outspoken about how he felt about them. 215 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 5: Black Lives Matters a bunch of computer nerds, Twitter activists, activists. 216 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 8: They don't do shit to tweet while we ain't. 217 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 5: While we was in the streets, you know, turn shit up, 218 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 5: you know, protests, they would just shitting back, tweeting Twitter fingers. 219 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 8: You know. 220 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 5: So you got a lot of people sending them money, 221 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 5: he turning them into stars. And if you notice, as 222 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 5: it's blowing up, you not hearing about Mike Brown anymore, 223 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 5: not hearing about Darren Wilson anymore. You not ain't hearing 224 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 5: about the uh, you know, the Ferguson Police Department, anymore. 225 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 5: We not hearing about none this corrupt shit. Boy mcculor 226 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 5: and Jay Nickson. You not hearing about nothing this shit 227 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 5: no more. All you're hearing about is Black lives Matter. 228 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 7: Now. 229 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 5: They took the energy away from first, but they did 230 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 5: it so intelligently, a lot of people didn't understand what 231 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 5: was going on when it was going on, So they 232 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 5: was helping these motherfuckers not even knowing. 233 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 8: They still in our shit. They still not shit, They 234 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 8: still not shiting. 235 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 5: A lot of cats with the jail for us to 236 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 5: be the main topic in the media, a lot of 237 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 5: cats risk They light spoop got shot. 238 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 8: In the head. 239 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 5: She could have she could be dead right now, you 240 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 5: know what I mean. A lot of shit happened for 241 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 5: this shit to grow into what it became. There was 242 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 5: an opportunity to really fight back and really make a 243 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 5: change in Ferguson and Missouri as a whole. 244 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 8: They just clearly got away with murder. 245 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 5: Now they owned to the next city, then the next city, 246 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 5: then the next city in the next city, being superstars 247 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 5: off our shit we created here while we sitting back 248 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 5: still like now, Kyles ain't stopped killing her since Mike 249 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 5: Brown died, and what Black Lives Matter doing nobody. They 250 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 5: just collecting chicks. I ain't heard of them paying for 251 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 5: those funerals. I ain't hurting them starting no programs for 252 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 5: the you build, no sinners, nothing, you know what I mean. 253 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 5: So we back at square one, back where we started. 254 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 5: No justice, no nothing. 255 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: Darren wasn't the only person in Ferguson who felt that 256 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: outsiders were trying to co opt the movement for their 257 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: own purposes. 258 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 9: At some point there was a strategic effort and they 259 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 9: pretty much took over the movement. They had a strategy 260 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 9: of sending out signs that said Black Lives Matter. There 261 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 9: was so much worldwide media there that people who were 262 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 9: not able to actually participate they associated the signs that 263 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 9: they were seeing black Lives Matter. And this became a 264 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 9: hustle because people were donating to what the signs that 265 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 9: they'd seen. The people who were sitting at home, they 266 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 9: didn't know that they were giving money to an organization 267 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 9: that had little or nothing to do with the progress 268 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 9: of change. The local activists who were in the meetings 269 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 9: did having the discussions. They were the ones who actually 270 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 9: did the work, but Black Lives Matter got the. 271 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: Credit as founders of Black Lives Matter national organization were 272 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: lesbian women and asked some of their more high profile 273 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: supporters online, like Deray McKesson, were gay. Darren's criticism of 274 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:11,359 Speaker 1: the Black Lives Matter organization was often written off as homophobia. 275 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: The antagonism between Darren and Black Lives Matter was even 276 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: cited as a possible motivation behind his murder. 277 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 13: And in the aftermath of this, you've had people throwing 278 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 13: accusations at black lesbians there in Ferguson, trying to blame 279 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 13: them for his death as well. All of this just 280 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 13: back and forth that's going on as people are trying 281 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 13: to figure out what in the world happened. 282 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: Before his death. Darren took to the Internet to respond 283 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: to the people who claimed that he was homophobic. 284 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 8: On't going to against him because they gave I don't 285 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 8: agree with. 286 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 5: The lifestyle of you know, homosexuality, but I don't agree 287 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 5: with a lot of shit people do that. Don't got 288 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 5: I'm not gonna dislike you because you do some shit 289 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 5: I don't like. I'm pretty sure I do shit people 290 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 5: don't like I don't agree with ain't healthy for me 291 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 5: in they eyes, so disagree on lifestyle, but they used 292 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 5: that shit as a shield when they're doing all as bullshit. 293 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 5: I try to come say, oh, he's just homophobic. 294 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 8: He hated man. He being married to a woman, says 295 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 8: man says for Helva. So I ain't about that. 296 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 5: But they'll use that to distract people, make them people 297 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 5: think like, oh, don't take what he's saying serious because 298 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 5: he just some homophobic dug nigga. 299 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 8: He's just you know, angry are. 300 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: In a sense. Darren's suspicions of the national Black Lives 301 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: Matter organization were realized in January twenty twenty two, when 302 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: an article in New York Magazine titled the Murky Finances 303 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: of Black Lives Matter highlighted what many would call mismanagement 304 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: of donated funds. Darren had complained in the videos he 305 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: made that the big money flowing into Black Lives Matter 306 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: hadn't been used to fund any community projects in Ferguson. 307 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: According to the article, what is officially known as Black 308 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: Lives Matter Global Network Foundation is linked to a complex 309 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: web of different nonprofits, for profits, and political action committees, 310 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: some of which are operated by high ranking members of BLM. 311 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: According to the article, there is a pattern of collecting 312 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: donations from the public and then funneling them to the 313 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: friends and family of people like BLM co founder Patrise Colors. 314 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 10: Following the murder of George Floyd in twenty twenty, supporters 315 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 10: donated a staggering ninety million dollars to Black Lives Matter. 316 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 10: The nonprofit has spent most of that money, ending last 317 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 10: year with a nine million dollar deficit. Federal filings from 318 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 10: twenty twenty to twenty twenty two showed just a third 319 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 10: thirty million went to other charitable organizations. Twenty two million 320 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 10: went to expenses. This includes millions paid to board members 321 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 10: and family members of co founder Patrise Colors. For example, 322 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 10: one point six million went to the father of Colors's 323 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 10: child for security services. Another two point one million went 324 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 10: to BLM board member Shaloma Bowers for consulting. 325 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: According to the article, parents of black children killed by 326 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: police made public denouncements of the group's behavior, and this 327 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: included Tamy or Rice's mother Samaria and Mike Brown Junior's 328 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: father Mike Brown Senior. 329 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 9: One thing I always say about when you are an activist, 330 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 9: a real activist, it doesn't stop. It's sort of like 331 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 9: a sentence. You are concerned until it changes. And these 332 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 9: people who have benefited. Don't seem to cure anymore. You know, 333 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 9: we haven't seen some of them since twenty fourteen. 334 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 4: Given all that you said, how do you think Darren 335 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 4: would feel about someone who looks like me putting together 336 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 4: a story around trying to solve this stuff, and how 337 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 4: do you all. 338 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 14: Feel about it? 339 00:17:54,200 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 9: Darren would probably be I'd have done at grease, But 340 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 9: at the end of the day, I think it, you know, 341 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 9: as long as as the outcome is genuine, I think 342 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 9: that he would be appreciative of it. 343 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 15: I listened to the series that you produced with Melissa, 344 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 15: who is like a very dear friend of ours, and. 345 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 2: I appreciate the. 346 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 15: Gentleness and the respect and just like the concern that 347 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 15: you put into what you were doing. 348 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 8: You know. 349 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 2: She I think it helped heal herself. 350 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 12: It really helped get her to a different place, because 351 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 12: Melissa was just devastated. 352 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 7: She was not. 353 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 2: Moving. 354 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 4: Though I wasn't fishing for a compliment, I was happy 355 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 4: to hear that Darnell had listened to season one of 356 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 4: our show and that he trusted the earnestness with which 357 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 4: we approached our work to find the truth no matter 358 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 4: what it reveals. And now as a team we were 359 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 4: going to head to the crime scene. 360 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: Shortcut. 361 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 4: I'm gonna slate this real fast. So we're rolling up 362 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 4: to the crime scene for Darren Seals and we are 363 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 4: about to meet Darnell and a Mere So what's the shortcut. 364 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: There's a little side street. It's scary at freaking hell. 365 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: You're gonna have to go slow. 366 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 8: Though, okak you We're seeing. 367 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: Old manufacturing scrap metal, old water towers, old train bridge 368 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: brick from probably the forties or earlier. 369 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 4: It looks like the kind of place you would drop 370 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 4: a body. 371 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 16: This is scary. 372 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: Let me tell you this right here, if you go 373 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: down this hill, it's freaking scary at freaking hell. And 374 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: there's no way out down there. 375 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 4: I'm assuming it's over there, right just where the car 376 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 4: was found. It was this parking lot. When we arrived 377 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 4: at the Ridgeview Apartments in Riverview. We walked around taking 378 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 4: in the scene until Darnell and a Mirr showed up. 379 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 16: What do you know about this neighborhood? 380 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 12: Just generally, this is a poor black neighborhood. And I 381 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 12: think this is Saint Louis County. 382 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 16: I'm not sure it is. 383 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 12: Yeah, this is Saint Louis County. But this would be 384 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 12: considered on the scale of one to ten in Saint 385 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 12: Louis County in terms of the living probably two or three. 386 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 12: You know, you could tell by the way you drove 387 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 12: back here. Most people can't even find it. It's in 388 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 12: such an isolated part of the city, you know, and 389 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 12: it's buttressed up against a forest. 390 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 8: You know, and you drive down in here and it's 391 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 8: a no man's. 392 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 12: Land, you know. And the apartments now that we're alive 393 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 12: when Darren Seals were killed, you know, they're abandoned. It's 394 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 12: all boarded up. It's low, very low income living. 395 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 4: You know, what reason, if any could you imagine Darren 396 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 4: would come to this spot. 397 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 12: I don't think Darren would come to this spot unless 398 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 12: he knew somebody, you know. 399 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 2: I think Darren was brought here, you know, after he 400 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 2: was killed with Danye. 401 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 4: They determined it was a suicide, so we could get 402 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 4: the reports. But as long as this remains an open crime, 403 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 4: then they can just continue to withhold those reports because 404 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 4: it's an open investigation. So my question is, did you 405 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 4: guys ever hear how many bullets you know were found 406 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 4: and whether it was from the back of the head 407 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 4: or front or side. 408 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 12: I never heard anything, never heard a thing and. 409 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 4: The caliber or anything like that. We got to like 410 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 4: reconstruct what would be in their report ourselves. 411 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 12: I think we did a better job of finding out 412 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 12: what happened to Darren than. 413 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 8: The police, did. 414 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 2: You know. 415 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 12: It was like we came out here, so all of 416 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 12: this stuff, a mirrors started working. Other people started digging 417 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 12: around and rooting around, and we kind of reconstructed the 418 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 12: whole thing ourselves because we knew they weren't going to 419 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 12: give us any kind of evidence. You know, we knew 420 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 12: they weren't going to give us a good investigation because 421 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 12: of the way that they left. 422 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: So the guy who saw it lived in a twenty 423 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: three right, Yeah, Okay. 424 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 12: He was very scared to talk to the police. The fact, 425 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 12: he told us he wasn't going to talk to the police, 426 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 12: but that he would talk to us. 427 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 2: And I guess he was. 428 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 12: About, you know, twenty eight, twenty nine years old, and 429 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 12: he had been threatened, so he was really really afraid 430 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 12: by who, just some guys in the neighborhood. 431 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 4: And you know, so did he claim that some guys 432 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 4: went and knocked on all the different neighbors doors and 433 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 4: made that threat or did you ever get a sense 434 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 4: of how he got that well. 435 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 12: I posted the interview that he did with us online 436 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 12: and he in boxed me and told me, can you please, 437 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 12: you know, take this down there threatening in my life. 438 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: Somebody saw someone walk out of bushes, which. 439 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 9: I think he said that the guy came out of 440 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 9: these bushes. 441 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, guy with ponytail, White, guy with ponytail, guy. 442 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 9: White or Spanish, could be been either or. 443 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 4: We were standing around talking about the case when Amir 444 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 4: shared some details with us that we hadn't yet heard. 445 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 9: At the location that he was called to, the kid 446 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 9: explained that there were two people that got in the 447 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 9: car with Darren. He said, one guy in the front seat, 448 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 9: one got in the back. The guy in the back 449 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 9: seat supposedly shot Durren in the back of the head 450 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 9: with a forty five. The guy who lived at that location, 451 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 9: he told the two guys, y'all can't leave that body 452 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 9: in front of my house. 453 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 4: According to a mirror, he and Darnell had spoken to 454 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 4: a source who told them that on the night he died, 455 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 4: Darren had been summoned to some location and at that location, 456 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 4: two men got into his jeep with him, one in 457 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 4: the front seat and one in the back. According to 458 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 4: their source, the man in the back seat shot Darren 459 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 4: in the head. The source then claims that the owner 460 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 4: of the home there told the killers that they could 461 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 4: not leave the body in front of the house. And 462 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 4: further still, Darnell and Emir think they might know where 463 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 4: that location is. 464 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 9: Inteligents throughout the city indicated that Darren was killed in 465 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 9: the twenty eight hundred block of Gamble and his body 466 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 9: was transported to this location. 467 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 4: The twenty eight hundred block of Gamble is in Saint 468 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 4: Louis City. Though we don't know where he got this 469 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 4: specific address, it does at least line up with what 470 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 4: Chief Domingus told us, and Amir had one more clue 471 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 4: he wanted to share. 472 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 8: You know, homework. 473 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,959 Speaker 9: We found that it was another kid mysteriously killed and 474 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 9: found in the middle of the street in the twenty 475 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 9: even hundred block of Gamble. We could never put Darren 476 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 9: with this other kid, so we assumed during this kid 477 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 9: seeing what happened. 478 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: If this second fact that another person was killed at 479 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: the same time in the same place as Darren was true, 480 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: then we thought that if we could find this second victim, 481 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: we could begin confirming the details given by AMR and 482 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: Darnell's anonymous source. Our first attempt to do this, you 483 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: heard at the beginning of episode one. We simply drove 484 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: to the twenty eight hundred block of Gamble Street in 485 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: Saint Louis began knocking on doors asking if anyone remembered 486 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: anything about these killings, but no one had anything they 487 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: wanted to share with us. After searching through old news reports, 488 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: we were able to find that there was a killing 489 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: on that night at the address AMIRR had given us. 490 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 3: Breaking over night, one person is dead after shooting in 491 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 3: North Saint Louis. It happened just before one in the 492 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 3: twenty eight hundred block of Gamble Street, Saint Louis, Pelisse, 493 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 3: and in his early twenties, was found shot in the head. 494 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: The victim's name is Sean Hawkins. Not only was his 495 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: killing on the same night and at roughly the same 496 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: time as Darren's, but as it turns out, Sean Hawkins 497 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: looked fairly similar to Darren Zeals. Not identical, of course, 498 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: but they both had long dreads, and we wondered if 499 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: maybe Shawn's killing was a case of mistaken identity, and 500 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: that perhaps he'd been shot by someone who at a 501 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: distance in the dark, thought he was Darren Moore after 502 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: the break. Now back to the show. In running down 503 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: the story about Sean Hawkins, we reached out to the 504 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: Saint Louis Metropolitan Police to get a copy of the 505 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: incident report in regards to his death, and fortunately for us, 506 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: we found that one of the responding officers to that 507 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: crime scene was Heather Taylor, the former head of the 508 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: Ethical Society of Police more casually known in Saint Louis 509 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: as the Black Police Union. As I already had an 510 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: existing relationship with Heather, I called her to see if 511 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: she could remember anything about Seawn hawkins murder. We could 512 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: send you what we did receive from our Sunshine requests, 513 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: and if we provided that to you, would you be 514 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: able to recall, like anything that you saw. 515 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 7: Or First of all, I would have to get approval 516 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 7: for any interview. I didn't know this was about an 517 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 7: interview in a radio over whatever's going on with the podcast. 518 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 7: I would have to get permission for interview. I'm no 519 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 7: longer in a position where I'm the president of Ethical 520 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 7: and I can give interviews as I want. On top 521 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 7: of it, I would not ever give an interview based 522 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 7: off of assumptions and theory. 523 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: I told Heather I didn't want her to speculate on anything, 524 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: but rather just try and recall what she could from 525 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: the crime scene that night. And I understand it may 526 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: be minimal of what you can offer. But the things 527 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: that we're interested is, you know, questions, where was blood found? 528 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: Was blood found other than the doorstep where Sean Howkins 529 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: was found? 530 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 7: I would say that the police report, if I was 531 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 7: on the scene of the incident, the police report report 532 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 7: documents the facts that we received, the interviews that we received. 533 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 7: Interviews are recorded, crime scenes are videotaped and recorded, They're photographed, 534 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 7: and that's the evidence. 535 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, as Sean Hawkins murder is still an open case, 536 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: we were never able to get anything like what Heather 537 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: is talking about. We did make two official requests to 538 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: interview Heather, but both were ignored. So in trying to 539 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,239 Speaker 1: better under stand the context of Sean hawkins murder, we 540 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: turned to Facebook and looked up one of Sean Hawkins's 541 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: neighbors who was listed in the incident report, Monique Griffin. 542 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: She was only willing to talk via Facebook Messenger. Here 543 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: are excerpts from a conversation she had with our producer 544 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: Mallory Kenoy. Malory is reading her side and an Ai 545 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: is reading as Monique. 546 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 14: We would love to know what was happening before the 547 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 14: incident and how you knew Script. 548 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,719 Speaker 16: Script was Shawn's nickname. I was in bed. It was 549 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 16: eleven twelve ish when the shooting started to happen. He 550 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 16: was a friend that stayed next door. 551 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 14: Did you get a sense there was an investigation and 552 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 14: follow up by police or any leads on suspects. 553 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 8: No. 554 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 16: I moved immediately. I had small children at the time, 555 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 16: and everything I owned was damaged. I didn't want my 556 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 16: kids in that type of environment. 557 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 14: Have you ever met a man named Darren Seals? 558 00:29:58,760 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: No? 559 00:29:59,280 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 7: I have not. 560 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 16: Is that the guy who got killed who threw the 561 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 16: tear gas at police? 562 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 7: No? 563 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 14: That was Edward Crawford, But Darren was another prominent activist. 564 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 14: Is there anyone else do you think I should talk 565 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 14: to about it who may have more info about why 566 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 14: the shooting occurred. 567 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 16: No, I don't. It was all unexpected, love. All I 568 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 16: know is we heard shooting and bullets started flying everywhere 569 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 16: all through the apartments and cars got real quiet. In 570 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 16: about five minutes. I opened my door and he was 571 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 16: lying on the porch bleeding from his head and I 572 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 16: immediately called police and got my kids away from the scene. 573 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 16: That's all the details I have to give. 574 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: So all we have to go on are monique statements 575 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: in the incident report which gives us these details. For one, 576 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: they say the report of the crime came in at 577 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: twelve forty eight am. They claim an automatic firearm was 578 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: used under a box marked gang related. They wrote the 579 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: word no, which makes us wonder how they would even 580 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: have known that. After noting the one killed person is 581 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: Sean Hawkins. The report then lists a number of individuals 582 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: as victims, mostly children, and we presume these are all 583 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: people inside the apartment structure who could have been harmed 584 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: by the many bullets fired. Now, it's an eighteen minute 585 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: drive from the site of Sean Hawkins killing on Gamble 586 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: Street to the ridge View Apartments in Riverview where Darren's 587 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: body was found, and according to the incident report on 588 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: Darren's death, that crime was called in at one eighteen am, 589 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: so the timing does work out. But seeing that it 590 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,479 Speaker 1: was an automatic weapon used in Shawn Hawkins killing and 591 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: his neighbor, Monique described it as a situation in which 592 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: bullets were flying everywhere. It doesn't seem to align with 593 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: how we presumed Darren would have been killed. For instance, 594 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: Darren's jeep was never described as riddled with bullet holes, 595 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: So had he been killed in a hail of automatic gunfire, 596 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: it couldn't have been while he was in his car, 597 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: So his body would have to have been carried from 598 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: wherever it was into his car, which then would have 599 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: to have been driven from that location to where it 600 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: was eventually burned. That seemed like a lot of work 601 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: for someone who was otherwise spraying bullets with an automatic firearm. 602 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: We needed more information, and we hoped we would get 603 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,479 Speaker 1: it from the Riverview Police Department's incident report regarding Darren's murder. 604 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: Though it didn't tell us anything more about the possible 605 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: Gamble Street connection, it did reveal something that we found important. 606 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 2: Ray. 607 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: Yes, No, you're going to freak the hell out. 608 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 11: Uh huh, that's just One of the corresponding officers isof 609 00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 11: you're shit in your hands. 610 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, are you kidding me? 611 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 4: I'm not kidding you. 612 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 3: I saw that. 613 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: I had to keep a straight face. Wow. 614 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 4: After finding that, Detective Timothy Anderer was sent by the 615 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 4: Saint Louis County Police to investigate Darren's murder. We wondered 616 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 4: whether the reason the incident report they gave us omitted 617 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 4: the names of all the responding officers was an attempt 618 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 4: to make sure that we didn't know that there was 619 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 4: a connection between Detective Anderer and Darren. Seal's homicide investigation. 620 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 4: We called the Saint Louis County Police to find out 621 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 4: who the current LEA detective on Darren's case was. 622 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 17: I'll give you his name, but do not reach out 623 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 17: to him directly, or I can tell you you won't 624 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 17: get much out of our office ever again, because we 625 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 17: don't like to make our detectives mad. We don't want to. 626 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 17: We don't want reporters reaching out directly to them because 627 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 17: they're with their case load and everything. But it's Detective 628 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 17: Justin Adams. Adams. Yeah, Detective Adams has this case. So 629 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 17: if he wants us to push any information out on it, 630 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 17: I'm happy to do that, or if he has time 631 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 17: to talk to you guys, but I'll touch base with 632 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 17: him today on it. 633 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 8: Okay. 634 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 4: Finding that Detective Anderer was one of the first investigators 635 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 4: to respond on the night Darren was killed and then 636 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 4: noting everything claimed and documented by people who witnessed that 637 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 4: crime scene the following day, the burned door from Darren's 638 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 4: jeep still lying on its side, the blue latex gloves 639 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 4: worn by police left scattered amongst other debris. We wondered 640 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 4: if one didn't explain the other. We were happy to 641 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 4: hear that the case is not with Anderer but a 642 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 4: detective Adams, who wasn't listed as having responded that first night. 643 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 4: We hoped he wasn't so outwardly disrespectful to black activists 644 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 4: as Anderer had been. With so little information available via 645 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 4: police documents, if we wanted to settle the question of 646 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 4: where Darren was actually shot, we would need to go 647 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 4: straight to the people who had been some of the 648 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 4: last to see Darren alive. And that's next time on 649 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 4: our The Uprising. After The Uprising is a production of 650 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 4: Double Asterisk and iHeart Podcasts in association with True Stories. 651 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 4: Season two was written, reported, and produced by Maria Chappelle, Nadal, 652 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 4: John Duffy, Mallory Keenoi, and Reino Vashwski. Executive producers are 653 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 4: Niki Atore and Lindsay Hoffman. For iHeart Podcasts, John Duffy 654 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 4: and Renovashwski for Double Asterisk, David Cassidy and Ruth Vaka 655 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 4: for True Stories. Directed by John Duffy and Renoviashlsky. Theme 656 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,240 Speaker 4: song and score by Zachary Walter. Sound engineering and mixed 657 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 4: by John Autry. Fact checking by Muffin Humes. Marketing by 658 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 4: Alison Canter, Fair Use Legal by Peter Yazzi and Brandon Butler. 659 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 4: Legal by Holly Decan for iHeart Podcasts and Keith Sklarr 660 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 4: for Double Asterisk, Missouri Sunshine Legal by David Roland. Show 661 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 4: logo by iHeart Podcasts using a photo by Attillo Dagostino. 662 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 4: Our interns were Hannah Madura and Rosemary Fiery. Website by 663 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,800 Speaker 4: Stephanie Clark. Recorded at David Weber's Airtime Studios in Bloomington, Indiana. 664 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 4: We want to acknowledge additional investigation that became part of 665 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 4: this podcast was conducted by Detective Adams in the Saint 666 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 4: Louis County Police and the FBI, who did not participate 667 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 4: in this podcast, and by a Mere Brandy Mosey Secret 668 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 4: and Darnell Singleton. If you like our work, check out 669 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 4: our other podcasts. You can find us at Double Asteriskmedia 670 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 4: dot com and on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Support us 671 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 4: on Patreon. If you're enjoying the show, leave us a 672 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 4: rating and review on your favorite podcast app. Thank you 673 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 4: to Jamie Dennis, Danny Gonzalez, Jonathan Hartwig, Bethan Macalouso, Matt McDonough, 674 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 4: Melissa McKinnes, Ryan Mears, Tony and Valenovoshlski, and the family 675 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 4: and loved ones of Darren Seals, Bottom Boys and Doa. 676 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 4: Tracks used via fair use, So was the news reporting. 677 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 4: Archival copyright twenty twenty four Double Asteriskkink