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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Ricky News Tonight bombshell the Epstein files to be released finally.

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Speaker 2: Is it justice or just another smoke screen? I'm Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 2: this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: I never thought i'd see the day when we had

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Speaker 2: to go to Washington and demand a child sex molester's

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Speaker 2: files become public.

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Speaker 1: What is this? Russia? China? H E double l n oh.

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Speaker 2: I ain't shutting up about this. Will there finally be

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Speaker 2: justice for Epstein victims? Not just Epstein? But when I

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Speaker 2: say Epstein, I'm talking about many, many powerful and or

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Speaker 2: wealthy men that absolutely engaged.

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Speaker 1: In sex with minors. We know, do we not?

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Speaker 2: Straight out to Barry Levine joining us, author of The

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Speaker 2: Spider inside the Tangle Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Gallain Maxwell,

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Speaker 2: we know beyond a doubt that.

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Speaker 1: Girls as young as twelve years old were flown to

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Speaker 1: Lolita Island. Isn't that true?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: It is true, Nancy, And the only way we're going

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Speaker 4: to get justice for these victims. And the Department of

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Speaker 4: Justice told us there's more than a thousand victims of

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Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein and Gahlain Maxwell is to see these files,

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Speaker 4: is to see the one hundred thousand pages of documents

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Speaker 4: that include police reports, depositions, interviews, and focus in on

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Speaker 4: the twenty men that Representative Tom Massey said have been

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Speaker 4: sex trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and my point is in the last hours a

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Speaker 2: stark reversal where President Trump is now calling for the

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Speaker 2: release of the files. But something very very critical to

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Speaker 2: Victoria Churchill joining us US political investigative.

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Speaker 1: Reporter for deallymail dot com.

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Speaker 2: We need the release of the DOJ, Department of Justice,

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Speaker 2: and Judicial files, not just the congressional files.

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Speaker 1: I'm not parsing words.

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Speaker 2: The congressional files consist largely of email and phone conversations.

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Speaker 2: The DOJ and judicial files consist of depositions, terrabytes and

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Speaker 2: terrabytes of evidence that has been amassed by the DOJ.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about videos, terribites of videos taken in the

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Speaker 2: Epstein homes, taken at Lolita Island and beyond. The judicial

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Speaker 2: and DOJ files are much more extensive than the congressional files.

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Speaker 2: Giving me the congressional files is going to advance that much.

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Speaker 2: We need it all, explain Victoria Churchill. The most recent

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Speaker 2: order from the White House regarding the Epstein files for Victoria.

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Speaker 5: Sure so, President Donald Trump, on his way back from

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Speaker 5: mar A Lago in Florida last night, said that he

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Speaker 5: is totally okay with Republicans in the US House of

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Speaker 5: Representatives voting for the DOJ files to be released. That,

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Speaker 5: of course, is after this discharge petition led by Thomas Massey,

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Speaker 5: is mentioned by your other guest, as well as Marjory

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Speaker 5: Taylor Green, who Trump has had a field day with

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Speaker 5: over the past weekend, you know, insulting her mainly because

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Speaker 5: she has been one of the main people who is

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Speaker 5: pushing to go ahead and live, you know, to release

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Speaker 5: these files, as well as other representatives, you know, other

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Speaker 5: Republican female representatives. But now it looks like that even

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Speaker 5: though those signatures on that discharge petition hit that to

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Speaker 5: eighteen number that they needed last week, excuse me with

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Speaker 5: the swernon of Adelita Grihalva, who of course they took

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Speaker 5: fifty days to swear her in Congress, but she was

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Speaker 5: out last signature on that petition. Now Speaker Mike Johnson

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Speaker 5: said last week that it will be up for a

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Speaker 5: vote this week, and now Trump is saying okay, Republicans

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Speaker 5: can vote for it, so that is a change in

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Speaker 5: the position that he has had throughout his time in office.

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Speaker 5: But I also do want to note that in September

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Speaker 5: of twenty twenty four, when he was on the campaign trail,

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Speaker 5: he actually promised to release the files related to Epstein,

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Speaker 5: as well as JFK and even MLK. So it's kind

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Speaker 5: of interesting how the President has flip flopped on this.

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Speaker 5: But I also think that goes to show that he

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Speaker 5: doesn't think that he will be implicated in anything nefarious

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Speaker 5: in these files, and so I think that really two things.

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Speaker 1: Can be true.

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Speaker 5: I think his name can be mentioned as a former

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Speaker 5: business associate of Epstein. You know, in the Daily Mail,

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Speaker 5: we constantly run pictures of Trump and Milania at mar

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Speaker 5: A Lago with Epstein, with Maxwell, they were known associates.

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Speaker 5: That's undeniable. However, his name can be all over the

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Speaker 5: files and he cannot be implicated in anything nefarious, which

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Speaker 5: I think is what will what we will.

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Speaker 6: Discover to be the truth.

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Speaker 2: In the last hours of start reversal from the White House,

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Speaker 2: Trump now claiming he wants the Epstein files release after

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Speaker 2: much furor over the past months. Why why the turnaround.

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Speaker 2: Do we care or is this just another smoke screen Listen.

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Speaker 7: To glame, Maxwell Epstein writes, Trump spent hours at my

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Speaker 7: house with a victim. Corresponding with Trump biographer Michael Wolfe,

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Speaker 7: Epstein says, of course Trump knew about the girls. He

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Speaker 7: asked Elaine to stop wolf Warren's Epstein. Trump will be

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Speaker 7: asked about their relationship at an upcoming debate, and the

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Speaker 7: two discuss hop answers may benefit Epstein.

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Speaker 8: These emails prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that

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Speaker 8: President Trump did nothing wrong. And what President Trump has

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Speaker 8: always said is that he was from Palm Beach and

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Speaker 8: so was Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein was a member at

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Speaker 8: Marla until President Trump kicked him out because Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 8: was a pedophile and he was a creep.

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Speaker 2: What we are hearing is just more political mumbo jump by.

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Speaker 2: For instance, is time to move on from the Democrat

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Speaker 2: hoax perpetrated.

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Speaker 1: By the radical left lunatics.

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Speaker 2: But nobody cares about politics on this. This is about

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Speaker 2: crime victims that were raped as children.

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Speaker 1: Listen.

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Speaker 9: For so many years, it felt like Epstein's criminal behavior

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Speaker 9: was an open secret. Not only did many others participate

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Speaker 9: in the abuse. It is clear that many were aware

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Speaker 9: of his interest in girls and very young women and

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Speaker 9: chose to look the other way because it benefited them

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Speaker 9: to do so. They wanted access to his circle and

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Speaker 9: his money. Their choice to align with his power left

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Speaker 9: those of us who had been harmed by this man

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Speaker 9: and his associates feeling very isolated.

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Speaker 2: That's from Representative Thomas Massey on X Is this real

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Speaker 2: we are now learning in the last hours of White

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Speaker 2: House has done an abrupt u turn demanding the release

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Speaker 2: of the Epstein files. But so far we have been stonewalled,

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Speaker 2: one smokescreen after the next, being led to believe we're

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Speaker 2: finding the truth, only to find out it's all bs.

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Speaker 2: For instance, in the last days, the House Oversight Committee

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Speaker 2: releases twenty thousand documents They were nothing.

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Speaker 1: Listen.

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Speaker 10: The House Oversight Committee releases twenty thousand documents subpoenat from

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Speaker 10: Epstein's estate on the heels of a smaller release, implying

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Speaker 10: President Trump knew about Epstein's abuse. The documents include thousands

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Speaker 10: of emails with high profile contacts, financial and property records,

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Speaker 10: excerpts from James Patterson's Filthy Rich in records of Epstein's

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Speaker 10: fixer's desperate attempts to improve his public image.

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Speaker 1: Joining me now and Shaw.

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Speaker 2: She is a founderer and director of Lynn's Warriors, dedicated

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Speaker 2: to ending sex exploitation and human trafficking. If this is

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Speaker 2: just another Roos, I think there's going to be an insurrection.

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Speaker 11: All absolutely coming straight from the Warriors leading the charge.

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Speaker 11: Because let's call this what this is, Nancy, I see

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Speaker 11: this as kicking the can.

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Speaker 1: Down the road.

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Speaker 11: That's what's happening.

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Speaker 1: Take that as you may.

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Speaker 11: We do have something we are urging starting today six

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Speaker 11: am this morning, every member of Congress.

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Speaker 1: It's called the.

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Speaker 11: Epstein Files Transparency Act. And I'll tell you why we're

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Speaker 11: doing this. Even though we want, you know, more from

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Speaker 11: the Justice Department. That's where it is right now. We

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Speaker 11: will not be silenced about any of this. We're going

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Speaker 11: to keep up the pressure. We're going to keep showing

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Speaker 11: up in front of Congress. We're going to keep talking

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Speaker 11: about it because these women are numbered in one thousand plus.

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Speaker 1: That's what we know about.

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Speaker 11: And all of the women in Vidio I keep seeing.

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Speaker 11: We know all of those women, and they bravely are

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Speaker 11: coming forward to speak on behalf of those who cannot speak,

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Speaker 11: and all of them have trauma in their own lives.

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Speaker 11: And there's a wonderful video we put out today from

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Speaker 11: our colleagues at World Without Exploitation, and everybody should see

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Speaker 11: it because these are women who have come forward, who say,

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Speaker 11: hold up a picture. I am twelve, this is me

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Speaker 11: when I met Jeffrey Epstein, I am fourteen, this is

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Speaker 11: me when I met Jeffrey Epstein. And it's a whole

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Speaker 11: slew of women. So let me tell you more of

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Speaker 11: this kicking the can down the road.

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Speaker 3: We are not having it.

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Speaker 11: We're going to keep the pressure up.

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Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, let's take a look at

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Speaker 2: Lynnshaw's video.

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Speaker 10: I was fourteen years old.

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Speaker 9: I was sixteen years old.

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Speaker 1: I was sixteen, seventeen, fourteen years old.

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Speaker 12: This is me, this was me, this is me when

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Speaker 12: I met Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 13: This is me when I met Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 14: It's time to bring the secrets out of the shadows.

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Speaker 14: It's time to shine a light into the darkness.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us psychoas from the California Jurisdiction, Author.

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Speaker 1: And star on Peacock.

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Speaker 2: You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany.

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Speaker 1: The victims have been through so much.

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Speaker 2: You and I have dealt with child molestation, child rape victims,

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Speaker 2: our whole lives essentially since we got into me the

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Speaker 2: legal business, you the psycho analysts business, doctor Bethany, after

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Speaker 2: living through what they've lived through as children, after waiting

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Speaker 2: all these years, now they hear from the White House

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Speaker 2: release the files for what the second or third time?

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Speaker 2: If this is another smoke screen and it's all bs,

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Speaker 2: I'm just a trial lawyer, Bethany, but I would conjecture

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Speaker 2: that will cause irreparable damage for the President to say

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Speaker 2: release the files and then it not happen again, and.

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Speaker 12: Nancy causes a ruppable damage because it's part of the

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Speaker 12: same offending pattern. The victims in all of their interviews

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Speaker 12: are saying that once they were on the island as minors,

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Speaker 12: as once after they were sex trafficked, that Epstein would

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Speaker 12: stalk them and would offer them jobs at like say

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Speaker 12: modeling agency or with a with a media mogul, or

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Speaker 12: to give them a singing contract or something like that,

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Speaker 12: the same offending pattern as P Diddy. He would just

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Speaker 12: get ahead of the story by offering them goodies offering

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Speaker 12: to promote their career. Now, isn't that the same thing

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Speaker 12: that politicians are doing with the public. They're just getting

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Speaker 12: ahead of the story. They're offering us something. They're saying, Look, children,

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Speaker 12: we are going to release all these files and you're

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Speaker 12: going to learn so much.

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Speaker 1: Joining me now A P. R.

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Speaker 2: Gury Robsheeter, you know him well, author of a brand

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Speaker 2: new hit book on Amazon. It started with a whisper, rob.

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Speaker 2: Very often a cover up ends up being worse than

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Speaker 2: the actual crime, right, the cover up intensifies the crime.

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Speaker 2: In this case, I don't know, other than murder, what

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Speaker 2: could be worse than molesting children?

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Speaker 1: But trying to suppress that evidence is.

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Speaker 2: Even more wrongdoing heaped on top. Now, I want you

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Speaker 2: to hear something, Rob Sheeter, and you're gonna have to

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Speaker 2: take it with a box, not a pinch, a box

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Speaker 2: of salt.

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Speaker 1: But listen to this.

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Speaker 7: Epstein's mcc cellmate X cop Nicholas Tartaglioni claims Epstein told

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Speaker 7: him prosecutors were really after Trump, and Maureen Comy promised

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Speaker 7: Epstein a deal as long as he implicated the President

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Speaker 7: in his crimes. Joey told Epstein he did not have

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Speaker 7: to prove anything as long as Trump could not disprove it.

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Speaker 7: Tartaglioni claims Epstein told him Trump was not involved.

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Speaker 2: Rob, you and I are so far on the outside

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Speaker 2: looking in. We hear that Trump told Glaine Maxwell to

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Speaker 2: quote stop what she and Epstein were doing, which of

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Speaker 2: course does suggest guilty conscience, but also an effort to

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Speaker 2: stop what was happening.

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Speaker 1: Here.

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Speaker 2: We hear from a cellmate. Yes he's a seal mate,

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Speaker 2: that means he's convicted, but also an ex cop, and

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Speaker 2: he says Epstein was being pushed to a deal where

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Speaker 2: he would implicate Trump before he was killed behind bars.

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Speaker 2: Before Epstein was killed behind bars, and was told you

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Speaker 2: don't have to prove it because Trump can't disprove it.

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Speaker 1: My question that was.

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Speaker 2: The lead up, Rob, Do you believe Trump has been

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Speaker 2: afraid to release these files because of the damage to

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Speaker 2: his reputation, Not that he necessarily did anything wrong, but

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Speaker 2: that it would be so damning his friendship with Epstein.

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Speaker 13: Very good question, Nancy. I believe the answer to that

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Speaker 13: is most likely yes. However, I can't be totally confident

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Speaker 13: in my answer because we haven't seen the documents. We

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Speaker 13: haven't seen the information. This is why stories, conspiracy theories,

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Speaker 13: maybe even the truth is all just swishing around because

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Speaker 13: we don't have all the information. This information has to

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Speaker 13: be released, Nancy. It's got to the point now where

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Speaker 13: I agree with you. It has to be released. And

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Speaker 13: I think at this point we are gonna be absolutely

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Speaker 13: shocked with what we find out. However, I think that

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Speaker 13: is going to be better than saying nothing. The current

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Speaker 13: situation cannot sustain itself.

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Speaker 1: And again I do not like to veer into politics, but.

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Speaker 2: We practically had to hold a hot poker to his

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Speaker 2: rear end to get Trump to go this far. Was

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Speaker 2: he so afraid of what would be in those files,

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Speaker 2: whether he did anything wrong or not, that he had

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Speaker 2: knowledge of what was happening that he was implicated in

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Speaker 2: that he was on the plane that he was with Epstein.

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Speaker 1: Has that been the hold up?

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Speaker 2: Or are their more powerful people even more powerful that

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Speaker 2: will be implicated. The concern has been so far, and

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Speaker 2: we know Rob Shooter that a lot of the files

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Speaker 2: have been redacted. In other words, you get a piece

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Speaker 2: of paper and half of it has been marked out

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Speaker 2: with a black magic marker. Names to protect the innocent

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Speaker 2: have been redacted but when these files are released, they

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Speaker 2: very likely may not be redacted. So a lot of

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Speaker 2: innocent people are going to be thrown in the same

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Speaker 2: pot to stew with the guilty.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, all the names are going to come out. Anybody

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Speaker 13: that has had any interaction, emails, exchange with Jeffrey, It's

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Speaker 13: all going to come out.

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Speaker 3: When you said, is there somebody.

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Speaker 13: Even more powerful than the President of the United States here,

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Speaker 13: I just can't think of that person. I've worked this

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Speaker 13: business a long time. No celebrity, no billionaire, is more

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Speaker 13: powerful at the moment than the President of the United States,

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Speaker 13: So I don't think I buy that. I also have

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Speaker 13: worked around the Trump family for over thirty years. When

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Speaker 13: he was in the entertainment business. He would often invite

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Speaker 13: me to Trump Tower, to the celebrity Apprentice set. He

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Speaker 13: is a master, a master at reading the public, and

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Speaker 13: so the fact that he has decided it is better

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Speaker 13: off to take all this anger, to take all this

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Speaker 13: all this really valid emotion, and not release all the

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Speaker 13: information tells me he really really wants to hide.

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Speaker 2: Him In this case, Rob Sheeter, the innocent are going

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Speaker 2: to be thrown in the same part with the guilty

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Speaker 2: diste but that is the price for full transparency. Joining

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Speaker 2: us tonight is a very special guest who has once

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Speaker 2: again landed at the forefront of the national news because

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Speaker 2: of Jeffrey Epstein. May Epstein rot in Hell. I'd like

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Speaker 2: to start, of course, the news of the night is

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Speaker 2: President Trump's stark reversal on releasing the Epstein files, and

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Speaker 2: they are volume us. The twenty thousand documents we've gotten

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Speaker 2: so far as only a very small percentage of what

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Speaker 2: there is. Just imagine it goes by years and years

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Speaker 2: and years. And Allen, you've seen cases with thousands and

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Speaker 2: thousands and thousands of documents. But before we get into that,

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Speaker 2: I want to make it very clear. At one time

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Speaker 2: Professor Dershowitz was accused of molesting Virginia Giffrey.

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Speaker 1: It has been agreed upon by Geffrey and her lawyers

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Speaker 1: that Dershowitz was not involved.

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Speaker 2: That said, Alan, you have landed in the middle of

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Speaker 2: a stink bomb on this case.

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Speaker 1: And part of it is because just recently.

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Speaker 2: You parsed words on Epstein's conviction. Remember that conviction in

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Speaker 2: the early two thousands where he plagued guilty to solicitation

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Speaker 2: of a minor. Remember that many people call that pedophilia,

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Speaker 2: but you are saying, no, it was not pedophilia.

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Speaker 3: Well, I just think we have to get our words right.

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Speaker 3: Pedophilia means very young girls thirteen, fourteen twelve. The woman

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Speaker 3: that he the girl that he admitted to having sought

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Speaker 3: sex on, was seventeen years and ten months. That's terrible,

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Speaker 3: and it's a crime, and it's underage, but it's not pedophilia.

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Speaker 3: And so you can't say he's been convicted of pedophilia.

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Speaker 3: Not that it makes such a difference, because he was

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Speaker 3: accused of terrible, terrible things, including relatively young people. But

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Speaker 3: let's get it's bad enough without distorting the reality. And

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Speaker 3: so what he did was horrible. What he did was inexcusable,

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Speaker 3: and the moment I found out that he did it,

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Speaker 3: I terminated my friendship with him. And by the way,

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Speaker 3: the newly released documents proved that I was telling you

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Speaker 3: the truth when I said that Jeffrey hated my guts.

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Speaker 3: It his emails, he talks about me being mentally ill.

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Speaker 3: He talked about me being a terrible, terrible lawyer. If

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Speaker 3: I had ever done anything wrong, the first thing you

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Speaker 3: would have done was reveal it to people. But he didn't.

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Speaker 3: So I'm glad these new emails are coming out, and

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Speaker 3: I'm glad that President Trump has finally agreed to urge

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Speaker 3: people to vote to have everything come out. The day

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Speaker 3: I was falsely accused, I announced I want everything out.

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Speaker 3: I want the FBI to investigate me. I waive all

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Speaker 3: privileges because I knew I hadn't done anything wrong and

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Speaker 3: therefore everything would exculpate me. Is of course, as of

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Speaker 3: course it has. So if you're innocent, you should want

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Speaker 3: everything out, and if you're guilty.

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Speaker 2: Should crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, I'm very

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Speaker 2: curious as to why this has been such an obstacle

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Speaker 2: in DC, why these files have been It's like hide

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Speaker 2: the ball. From the very beginning, we've gotten conflicting statements.

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Speaker 2: We've been told by BONDI they're sitting right here on

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Speaker 2: my desk, I've got the client list.

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Speaker 1: But then claiming, oh, there is no such thing. Do

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Speaker 1: they think we're idiots?

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Speaker 3: Alan, Well, there is a list, a list of FBI

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Speaker 3: names that the FBI got in interviewing the victims. And

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Speaker 3: there is such a list. I've seen it, and the

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Speaker 3: names have been redacted. Some of them has been made public.

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Speaker 3: Being on the list doesn't necessarily mean you're guilty. It

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Speaker 3: means somebody has accused you. But there is such a

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Speaker 3: li There's no Jeffrey Epstein client list. He didn't have

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Speaker 3: a little book in which he said, this woman is

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Speaker 3: going to go to this guy, this woman is going

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Speaker 3: to go here or there. There's no such lists like that.

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Speaker 3: But the FBI does have names that they're suppressing. And

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Speaker 3: the judges, judges, this is the important point. Judges have

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Speaker 3: been suppressing information. They have sealed depositions, including in my case,

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Speaker 3: and I'd love to see all those depositions. I made

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Speaker 3: motions in court to get them revealed, but the courts

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Speaker 3: have said no. The courts have said we're not going

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Speaker 3: to release this. So the courts have been suppressing information.

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Speaker 3: The government has been suppressing information. Now I think we're

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Speaker 3: going to see the government information out there, but the

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Speaker 3: court information is still going to be suppressed. And I

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Speaker 3: think that your program, other programs have the right to

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Speaker 3: go to court and say, look, please, the public has

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Speaker 3: the right to see this. Let's unseal these depositions.

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Speaker 2: Now. Alan having built many, many, so many cases, I

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Speaker 2: can't remember them anymore.

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Speaker 1: I can't keep count of them.

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Speaker 2: But I'm confounded in the face of so many allegations

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Speaker 2: and so many victims that I believe victims of Epstein,

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Speaker 2: your former client, victims of his friends, child trafficking girls

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Speaker 2: as young as twelve years old, and we've been able

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Speaker 2: to document that from all around the world, from Turkey,

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Speaker 2: from the stands, all going, many of them anyway to

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Speaker 2: Lolita Island. There have to be witnesses, Alan, there has

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Speaker 2: to be documentation of their flights, their fairy rides. What

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Speaker 2: I don't understand, Alan, is why, at this juncture, in

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Speaker 2: the face of overwhelming evidence, there is not a full

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Speaker 2: on investigation of who these men are.

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Speaker 1: Epstein's dead.

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Speaker 2: Can we now focus on other offenders? Why are they

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Speaker 2: being protected? And why is there not an ongoing federal investigation?

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Speaker 2: Part of hearing about politics, Alan, I'm tired of hearing

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Speaker 2: about what Trump wants and Bonding wants, and the Democrats want,

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Speaker 2: the Republicans want.

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Speaker 1: Why isn't there a.

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Speaker 2: Federal investigation finding the names of these alleged perpetrators and

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Speaker 2: prosecuting them.

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Speaker 3: I agree with that if they're guilty, they should be prosecuted,

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Speaker 3: but at the same time, all information should be released

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Speaker 3: about whether or not these accusations are true, false, or

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Speaker 3: somewhere in between. We have to hear all sides of

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Speaker 3: the issue. I wrote a book called Guilt by Accusation.

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Speaker 3: You can't find somebody guilty just because they're accused. They

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Speaker 3: have to have a due process right to defend themselves.

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Speaker 3: But I think every name should be revealed, everybody who's

402
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Speaker 3: been on the island, everybody who's been on the airplanes, everybody.

403
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Speaker 3: Then they have to explain what they were doing on

404
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Speaker 3: the island, what they were doing on the airplane, what

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Speaker 3: they were doing in the house. I've done that. I've

406
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Speaker 3: explained that completely, and everything I've ever said has been

407
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Speaker 3: completely corroborated by the release of the recent email. So

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Speaker 3: I think is a case in point. If you're innocent,

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Speaker 3: please please push to have everything revealed. If you're guilty,

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Speaker 3: I understand you're a little bit reluctant to have the

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Speaker 3: truth come out. But if you're innocent, you want the

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Speaker 3: truth to come out.

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Speaker 2: Well, Allan, I appreciate that I do, and I agree

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Speaker 2: with you, but I am not suggesting guilt by accusation

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Speaker 2: or trial in the media. What I'm saying is I

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Speaker 2: keep hearing about there is no client list.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's just like a witness list.

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Speaker 2: A police report or an allegation by a victim is

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Speaker 2: not a client list. You, the prosecutor, have to go

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Speaker 2: and create the witness list. You have to investigate. I'm

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Speaker 2: not asking for trial by media. I'm saying, why Allan,

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Speaker 2: is there not an investigation into these claims? Why are

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Speaker 2: we talking about there's no client list, Well, go make

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Speaker 2: one investigate. Find out who they are are when they

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Speaker 2: were there, who are their victims? These victims are now

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Speaker 2: adult women. They can can say what happened to them.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand what's the hold up?

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Speaker 3: I agree completely. Look there is I've seen it. I've

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Speaker 3: held it in my hand. There is an FBI report

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Speaker 3: in which the names are redacted, in which victims say

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Speaker 3: these are the men ABCD, they identified them by name,

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Speaker 3: and the court has required that all those names be redacted,

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Speaker 3: and cross that they shouldn't be. I want every single

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Speaker 3: name released, and I went to court to try to

435
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 3: get every name released, but the people whose names are

436
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 3: there obviously don't want them released. But at this point

437
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 3: in time, every name should be made public, every accusation

438
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 3: should be made public, and then the people whose names

439
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Speaker 3: are on the list should have an opportunity to explain,

440
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 3: to deny, to disprove. But right now, nobody benefits from suppression.

441
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 3: And that's why I'm so upset at courts, courts, federal

442
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 3: judges keeping names out. They shouldn't be doing that. I

443
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 3: want to see that FBI unredacted list of the names,

444
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 3: and then we can judge whether the allegations are true

445
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 3: or false.

446
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: Which leads me allan to the question why.

447
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: Normally, as you know, in a criminal proceeding, the state

448
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 2: doesn't have to prove motive.

449
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: But I'm curious because I think it will lead me

450
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: to more wrongdoing.

451
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 2: Why do you believe that these names have been suppressed

452
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: as you say redacted, But I think they're being suppressed.

453
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 3: They are, They are being suppressed, and they're being suppressed

454
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 3: by federal judges. So let's get the federal judges to

455
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 3: release every name of everybody and release the name of

456
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 3: information that might undercut the claims. Let me give you

457
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 3: an example. There's a woman named Sarah videotapes of Donald Trump,

458
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Richard Branson and others having sex

459
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 3: with the young children. So okay, So she sent hundreds

460
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 3: of emails to the New York Post making those allegations.

461
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 3: Then she admitted she made the whole thing up. So

462
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 3: if you're going to release the accusations, you also have

463
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 3: to release the admission that she made it up. So

464
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: as long as we get the whole picture, innocent people

465
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 3: shouldn't be concerned. Guilty people should be concerned. But that's

466
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 3: the process of criminal justice to distinguish between the innocent

467
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 3: and the guilty. So please let's release everything. I have

468
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 3: an interest, obviously, because I'm innocent and I want everything

469
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 3: out there. Other people have an interest in suppressing it.

470
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 3: But the interest in suppressing it shouldn't prevail. The public

471
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 3: has the right to know Allan.

472
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure that you can understand why all of us, the.

473
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 2: Regular people who were not on the inside of this

474
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 2: investigation what you have been, are stymied.

475
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 1: We don't understand.

476
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: And you know how I feel about politics, Alan, We've

477
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 2: discussed it before. I don't care if you're a Republican

478
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 2: agreeing a Democrat. Don't care. But we were told these

479
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 2: would be released. Then there's an sudden about face. As

480
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: soon as Trump got into the White House, and Bondie

481
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:24,719
Speaker 2: has been the spokesperson the stark reversal on that in

482
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 2: the last hours is encouraging, but I'm still left with

483
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,239
Speaker 2: a feeling we're never going to know the truth, and

484
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: that the onus is on the victims themselves to somehow

485
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: put together their own investigation to pursue.

486
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 3: It shouldn't be It shouldn't be on the victims. It

487
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 3: should be on the government. The government should be producing everything.

488
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 3: They should be going to court and saying the public

489
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 3: interest outweighs any privacy interests at this point, and we

490
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 3: want to see everything out, but we haven't seen that

491
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 3: happen yet. And you're right to ask the question why.

492
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 3: But I'm so please. Is that President Trump has now

493
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 3: said he does want to make sure the Republicans vote

494
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 3: to release at least the congressional material, But I also

495
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 3: want the government to go in and try to release

496
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 3: the judicially suppressed material. Then maybe we can get close

497
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 3: to everything. What I want to see is every single document,

498
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 3: every video tape, every call, everything out there. You know,

499
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 3: not lawyer client privileged material if those are if they

500
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 3: have a special status, but everything else should be.

501
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: Out there allan what's the difference between the congressional documents

502
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: and the judicial documents, because as of right now only

503
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: congressional documents are being released.

504
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 3: That's right. So the documents are depositions. I was supposed

505
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 3: for hours and hours, My false accuser was a cause

506
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 3: for hours and hours. Those have been suppressed, along with

507
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 3: everybody else in the Gallaine Maxwell case. In other cases

508
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 3: the judges have suppressed, and they've also suppressed grand jury minutes. Now,

509
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 3: I don't think grand jury minutes they're going to give

510
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 3: us very much because prosecutors, all I have to do

511
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: is send somebody into the grand jury to describe the evidence.

512
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 3: But the depositions are very substantial, and they involve people

513
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 3: very close to Jeffrey Fscene. I'm not at liberty to

514
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 3: disclose the names of these people because they're sealed, but

515
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 3: some of them are extremely close to e. F Scene,

516
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 3: and it would be very very important to have those

517
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 3: documents out there, and I think the judges should release

518
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 3: those documents. And they're more in many ways at least

519
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 3: as important.

520
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 2: Allen, before we move on to our other guests for

521
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: this evening, I'm very very disturbed by you, and I'm

522
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 2: circling back to it, parsing words on pedophilia. I just

523
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: want to be clear, your former client, Jeffrey Epstein Plague

524
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 2: guilty to solicitation and procurement of a minor of miners

525
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: for sex. Whether they're twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen,

526
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 2: as was the case, there is still a miner in

527
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 2: the eyes of the law. And as you know, in

528
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 2: other cases, girls as young as twelve have been sent

529
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: to Lolita Island.

530
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: That has been documented.

531
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 2: Now in the case where he played guilty, the victim

532
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 2: was not twelve, but still a minor.

533
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: Allan, so people should say he is a convicted sex offender,

534
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: he is convicted of having sex with a minor, but

535
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 3: they shouldn't say he's a convicted pedophile because when you

536
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 3: combine the two words convicted, which means he's he depleted, guilty,

537
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 3: has been found guilty, and pedophile, it suggests that he

538
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 3: has been found guilty after due process of having sex

539
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 3: with twelve thirteen, fourteen years and that is the true

540
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 3: What he did is bad enough. All I'm I'm not

541
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 3: trying to defend them because it really doesn't make much

542
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 3: of a difference. All I'm suggested thing is that if

543
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: you want to be credible, let's get it all straight,

544
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 3: and let's make clear that he never pleaded guilty or

545
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 3: was found guilty of anything that, according to the Diagnostic

546
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 3: and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association and other

547
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 3: medical sources would label him a pedophile. You could disagree

548
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: and say it's a question of words, and I don't

549
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 3: think it makes it be.

550
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 2: Not disagree with the black and white definition of pedophile,

551
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: which is an attraction to pre pubescent children.

552
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: Pre pubescent. Let me break that down. That means the

553
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: girl doesn't have breast yet, she.

554
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 2: May not have pubic here, she's around the age of

555
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 2: thirteen or younger typically speaking, but at this juncture, to

556
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: parse words about whether he's convicted pedophile or convicted child

557
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: sex molester or procuring sex with the minor is largely

558
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 2: a false argument. At this point, what do you think

559
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: is going to happen?

560
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 3: Alan?

561
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: Now? Will we ever get the truth?

562
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 3: I think so. I think we're going to get the truth.

563
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 3: I think there's so much public pressure and there's so

564
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 3: much pressure from Congress that I think ultimately we're going

565
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 3: to see all the emails, We're going to see the videotapes.

566
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 3: If there are videotapes, and I know there are at

567
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 3: least some videotapes of what happened in the living room

568
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 3: of his house, because he arranged those videotapes with the

569
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 3: police in Bombage County because somebody had stolen material from him.

570
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 3: So I want everything out there, and I think that

571
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 3: the public has been pushing for that. You've been pushing

572
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 3: for it. Other people have been pushing, and I think

573
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 3: you're going to prevail. I think in the end everything

574
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 3: will come out. It will exculpate innocent people like me.

575
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 3: It will incumpate guilty people, and I don't know who

576
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 3: they are, but whoever they are should be found guilty.

577
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 3: And I think in the end the truth will prevail

578
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 3: because I'm interested, you know, as a professor, I'm interested

579
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 3: in the truth. As an advocate, obviously, I'm interested in

580
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 3: getting the best possible conclusion from my clients, But as

581
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 3: a professor, I'm interested in the truth and I want

582
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 3: the whole truth to come out, and I think it will,

583
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 3: and I think it will because of people like you

584
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 3: pushing so hard to get everything out there, and you should.

585
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 3: You should keep pushing. Don't stop.

586
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 2: Alan Dershowitz representing one nasty devil after the next. Thanks

587
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 2: for being with us tonight, allan, thank you.

588
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 3: Also represents the medicine loation represented the time Sharansky. I

589
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 3: represented Bill Clinton, I represented Ted Kennedy. That are all innocent,

590
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 3: but you know my representation. I also, as I said,

591
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 3: represented many women who have been abused and threatened and

592
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:37,280
Speaker 3: so gay.

593
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 2: To Kennedy, okay, I think I would leave him out

594
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: of that mix.

595
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: That said, good night, sir.

596
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: Good night.

597
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 10: After Jeffrey comes forward with her allegations, Epstein writes publicist

598
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 10: Peggy Siegel, urging her to suggest to Ariana Huffington that

599
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 10: Andrew's accuser is a total liar with a long criminal history.

600
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 10: In the Huffington Post should publish a story championing the

601
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 10: dangers of false allegations. Epstein denies the girl in the

602
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 10: photo was under each while in his employee claiming she

603
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 10: was a telephone answerer.

604
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 2: So much is happening on the other side of the ocean.

605
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: Back to Rob Shooter, our favorite britt pr guru, we

606
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: are now learning in the email dump that Prince Andrew

607
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: tried to undermine claims that the photo of he and

608
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 2: Giffrey was faked. Epstein says, and I quote, yes, she

609
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 2: was on my plane talking about Jeffrey. Yes, she had

610
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 2: her picture taken with Andrew, as many employees have. Epstein

611
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 2: himself validates that photo, which leads me to my question, Rob.

612
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: Right now there is a move underfoot to have Andrew

613
00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: and Frugie as well prosecuted for using their powers to

614
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 2: smear Virginia Jeffrey.

615
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: What's happening this?

616
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 13: This is really the topic of conversation in Britain. It's

617
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 13: going to be the conversation I think for several days now.

618
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 13: People are furious, people are outraged about this. If Andrew

619
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 13: used this tax payer security, we paid for this, we

620
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 13: paid for his protection. If he's using his security to

621
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 13: get himself out of some ugly, nasty, dirty situations, that

622
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 13: is a total, total outrage, and the British public will

623
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 13: not stand for it.

624
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 3: I think the.

625
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 13: Palace hoped that after they stripped him of his palace,

626
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 13: of his titles, we had stopped talking about him. But

627
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 13: this story is not going away, Nancy. There are still

628
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 13: too many questions. Andrew will be held accountable and this

629
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 13: story far from over.

630
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 10: Royal biographer Andrew Lowney says it's likely Andrew and ex

631
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 10: wife Sarah Ferguson wind up behind bars, but he doesn't

632
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 10: believe it will be for sex trafficking. Lowney says the

633
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 10: case against Windsor is quite clear financial impropriety, misconduct in office,

634
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 10: and various public offenses. While Ferguson goes down for unscrupulous

635
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 10: use of charity money. Lowney predicts the divorces we'll flee

636
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 10: the country. Mount Batten likely taking advantage of the UAE's privacy,

637
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 10: much like Spain's former king Juan Carlos.

638
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 15: She was the reason I came forward, and I know

639
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 15: the reason why so many others have as well. And

640
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 15: so she just walks such a fearless path that I

641
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 15: just wish that she were alive to see this day.

642
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: That's from our friends at CBS as Danielle Binski and

643
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 2: Epstein victim. So where Virginia Jeffrey left off after her

644
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 2: untimely death, other victims have been reignited by her to

645
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: move forward, including on people within.

646
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: The US and Andrew. So let me understand this.

647
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 2: Rob Sheeter, joining US PR guru and author of it,

648
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 2: started with a whisper on Amazon right now, and by

649
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 2: the way, it's amazing, Rob Shooter, Andrew and Fergie may

650
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:13,280
Speaker 2: go down on nothing to do with Jeffrey. But without you, afraid,

651
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: this would never have happened. So what will they potentially

652
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 2: go down on?

653
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 1: What crime?

654
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 13: Financial crimes here?

655
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 3: Nancy?

656
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 13: Let's remember al Capone went to prison for tax evasion,

657
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 13: not for murdering people. And so what's happened here is

658
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 13: the Jeffrey Epstein case has pulled the thread into a

659
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 13: royal couple who use their power in the most outrageous way.

660
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 13: We've pulled the thread and now more is going to

661
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 13: be coming out. He was a trade ambassador for years.

662
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 13: They always had a dodgy reputation. Now it looks like

663
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 13: they are outright grifters. This will be easier to prove

664
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 13: because the Monday trail doesn't disappear. They're pulling at this

665
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 13: and people are assuming. People are pretty much confident that

666
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 13: this is going to prove some really serious financial crimes.

667
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 13: Andrew did not have a lot of money. So you think,

668
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 13: as a prince, the son of Queen Elizabeth, he would

669
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 13: have millions and millions.

670
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 3: He didn't.

671
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 13: He had barely any money of his own. He didn't

672
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 13: really have a job, so how did he live like this?

673
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 13: A lot of people are saying Jeffrey Epstein paid and

674
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 13: who else? Who else paid? We're about to find.

675
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 2: Did you see that multimillion dollar view that Epstein had?

676
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 3: That?

677
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: These stinks when you think about some pos abusing her

678
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 2: in that massage room looking out over that beach. They

679
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: can all go straight to ATENLEL.

680
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 4: Ryan A.

681
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: Pitchford. Is it real? Will we truly see the Epstein files?

682
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 2: To Eric Fattus joining US, veteran trial lawyer joining US

683
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 2: out of Colorado, founding partner of Varner Fattus, elite legal

684
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 2: and former felony prosecutor. Eric There's a big difference between

685
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 2: releasing congressional files, which are a lot of emails and

686
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: included excerpts from Filthy Rich. That's a streaming show. Nobody cares.

687
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 2: It's a streaming movie made about Epstein. No one cares.

688
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: Those files are one thing. The DOJ and judicial files

689
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 2: are an entirely different matter and contain judicial documents such

690
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: as depositions, filings, motions, subpoenas, affidavits. The DOJ files will

691
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 2: include terabytes of video taken from the Epstein homes, the mansion,

692
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 2: Lalita Island and beyond Palm Beach.

693
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: That's what we need. The DOJ and the judicial files.

694
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 2: Is this real fattest and how long can we be stonewalled?

695
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 16: Well, Nancy, those DOJ files, they really contained the guts

696
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 16: of this substance of investigation that I think has spanned years,

697
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 16: if not longer, but potentially decades. You know, they're going

698
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 16: to have probably interviews with witnesses, interviews with alleged victims.

699
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 16: They're gonna have photographs, videos. This is really the heart

700
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 16: of the matter, that this is what the public wants

701
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 16: to see. You know, some emails between two people, you know,

702
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 16: vaguely discussing something or other is one thing. But we're

703
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 16: talking about serious investigative materials that function as evidence and

704
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 16: that can give the public a true glipse into what

705
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 16: this investigation held and what it's conclusion.

706
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 2: For crime stories with Nancy Grace and Eric Fatas, here

707
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: is the danger in that The danger is that innocent people.

708
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 2: For instance, Dershowitz, he may represent a lot of dirty

709
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 2: dogs that are totally guilty of the worst crimes imaginable,

710
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 2: But the fact that he flew on a private plane

711
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 2: with Epstein does not implicate him in wrongdoing or Trump.

712
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: Whether Trump piled around with Epstein, that does not mean

713
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: he did anything wrong. However, it's not just those two.

714
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 2: There are many many other people that met with Epstein

715
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 2: on different matters that are totally innocent.

716
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: They will be, as I say, in the same pot,

717
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: distu with the guilty.

718
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: But that's the price of full transparency, correct it is?

719
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 16: You know, I think there's going to be significant collateral

720
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 16: damage here, like you're referencing Nancy. You know, there are

721
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 16: folks who are going to be caught in the cross

722
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 16: heres who may be engaged in no wrongdoing at all.

723
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 16: There might even be implications or outright accusations from people

724
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 16: that turn out to be false. You know, Jeffrey Epstein

725
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 16: is not the most credible dude. Prince Antrew is not

726
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 16: the most credible dude. And so if they're pointing fingers

727
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 16: at folks, that's.

728
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: Certainly putting perfume on the pig, you know.

729
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: I mean, think about it, fattest, how many times have

730
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 2: you been alone with the worst the convicted fell on, that.

731
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 1: Molested children, that committed a crime.

732
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 2: I remember driving all over Atlanta with a convicted rapist

733
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: who had been out of jail for X number of years,

734
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 2: and I needed him to lead me to a cereal

735
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 2: child molester. We drove all over Atlanta, him and me

736
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,240
Speaker 2: in the car for hours and hours. Could it look bad? Yeah,

737
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,479
Speaker 2: it could look bad. So that's what I'm talking about.

738
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 2: And you've been in the same position, and I don't

739
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 2: want innocent people implicated. But for these crime victims, there

740
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 2: must be a full release of the files. Victoria Churchill

741
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 2: joining US US political reporter Deally mail in a nutshell Victoria,

742
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 2: And it can get really complicated.

743
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: What is the Transparency Act?

744
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 5: Yes, so the Epstein Files Transparency Act is the bill

745
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 5: that was introduced in Congress bipartisan with Thomas Massey and Rocanna.

746
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 5: It is for the DoD to release their files. Now

747
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 5: that is a congressional bill, But of course the big

748
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 5: question comes into can Congress absolutely mandate the DOJ to

749
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 5: release every single file?

750
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 6: And then if they.

751
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 5: Can, the redactions, of course, are the big question. As

752
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 5: you pointed out, the files that have already been released

753
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 5: contain extensive redactions. The Department of Justice will most likely

754
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 5: argue that that is to protect the victims. But if

755
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 5: you've also looked at press conferences, the victims say they

756
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 5: want all of the files released so that people know

757
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 5: the extent of Epstein's crimes.

758
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: For so long, you've been told there is no client list,

759
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 2: and the onus has been put on the crime victims,

760
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: some of them just twelve years old at the time

761
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 2: they were molested to come up with that. Will we

762
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: finally get the documents necessary to create that client list

763
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 2: what and hand it over to the government to pursue Listen, I.

764
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,959
Speaker 15: Feel a lot of the time that survivors are being

765
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 15: asked to come forward with all of this, and I

766
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 15: just in feeling like, you know, they just need to

767
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 15: do their jobs and find the names.

768
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 17: I have been threatened considerably. I've been threatened, uh in

769
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 17: phone calls, in packages that have arrived at my house

770
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 17: with unpleasant contents. I do believe that they might be

771
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 17: intended to silence me, certainly to frighten me into perhaps

772
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 17: not coming forward and not being as persistent.

773
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 2: Those are victims of Epstein and others. That was Danielle

774
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:48,240
Speaker 2: Binski and Anuska de Georgious from CBS and BBC. Even

775
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 2: if this is real, it's not a smokescreen, and we

776
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 2: do get the DOJ and judicial documents, There's.

777
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: Still another problem. Juline Maxwell.

778
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 14: Trump's Gawayne Maxwell problem is just as serious as his

779
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 14: Epstein problem. Maxwell's transferred to Club FED just days after

780
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 14: assuring Deputy Attorney General Blanche Trump did not participate in

781
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 14: the abuse, appears to be quite the quid pro quo.

782
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 14: In addition to the low security facilities general privileges, Maxwell

783
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 14: is reportedly demanding VIP treatment that has the warden complaining

784
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 14: she's tired of being Maxwell's bitch.

785
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 2: Maxwell getting custom meals behind bars?

786
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: Who's allowing this?

787
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 10: Maxwell reportedly receives custom meals in her cell, enjoys private

788
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 10: exercise time and access to service puppies. Warden Hall ordered

789
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 10: to make all requested accommodations for Maxwell, including carrying out

790
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 10: secretarial duties on her behalf, providing snacks for her private

791
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 10: meetings with guests, letting her visitors bring in computers, and

792
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 10: punishing staff members who refuse to cooperate. Haul is also

793
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 10: rumored to be personally assisting Maxwell in preparing a commutation application.

794
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 2: Sidney Sumner joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter. This looks bad,

795
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 2: and you know what it is bad, Gallaine Max was

796
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: a convicted child sex trafficker and she's getting special meals

797
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 2: behind bars. If Trump pardons her, all hell is gonna

798
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 2: break loose.

799
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 6: Absolutely, this is a huge problem for his administration. On

800
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 6: top of the Epstein files, Gallainne Maxwell's treatment is just

801
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 6: horrifying for victims who went through years of testimony and

802
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 6: depositions and trying to get Maxwell put behind bars, and

803
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 6: now she's getting treated like a VIP star client. It's awful.

804
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 2: To Lynn Shaw joining us, Gallaine Maxwell's special treatment.

805
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 11: Yeah, hard to say those words special treatment. We also

806
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 11: hear we don't have proof, but we hear from some sources.

807
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 11: She's also picked up once or twice a week in

808
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 11: a big black suv and disappears for a few hours. Now,

809
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 11: if this isn't a slap in the face of all victims,

810
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 11: not only of this crime duo, but of all sex trafficking,

811
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 11: sexually exploited women, even men, boys, girls. What's going on here?

812
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 11: Why aren't more people out screaming about this one? The

813
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 11: proof's in the pudding.

814
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 2: Barry Levine joining us, author of The Spider inside the

815
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 2: Tangled Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Galline Maxwell, veteran investigative.

816
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: Reporter and editor.

817
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 2: Barry, I'm actually afraid to get my hopes up. We've

818
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 2: discussed the problems of the innocent being thrown in the

819
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:49,399
Speaker 2: pot with the guilty on this. We've discussed the reactions,

820
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 2: We've discussed the possibility that this.

821
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: Is a smoke screen.

822
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 2: Again, if the government was intent on getting the guys

823
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 2: that TuS did these, then girls, all they have to

824
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 2: do is read your book.

825
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,800
Speaker 1: Explain it's not rocket size.

826
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 2: You've laid it all out, particularly the financial trail.

827
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 4: That's absolutely correct, Nancy, and in fact Senator Ron Wyden,

828
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 4: who went down the financial road, identified more than one

829
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 4: billion dollars in dubious and suspicious wire transfers that Jeffrey

830
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 4: Epstein sent through Russian banks, through American banks, to enablers,

831
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 4: to men who were helping him over two decades to

832
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 4: bring little girls from foreign countries, putting them on planes,

833
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,760
Speaker 4: dressing them up in college sweatshirts so they would look older,

834
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 4: to bring these girls to islands. There's a money trail,

835
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 4: more than one billion dollars in money that Jeffrey Epstein

836
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 4: sent out to conduct his sex trafficking. And it's all there, it's.

837
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 3: All in the financial records.

838
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 4: And why hasn't the Justice Department continued to look into this?

839
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 4: Why are we getting these whistleblowers who are only now

840
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 4: coming forward. You know, it is so upsetting to me

841
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,280
Speaker 4: and on behalf of the victims that we're not seeing justice,

842
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 4: as I said earlier. Representative Tom Massey said that there's

843
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 4: twenty men on his list who received sex trafficking from

844
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:36,280
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein. Six billionaires, one of them from Canada, people

845
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 4: in the government, people from the music industry, a royal

846
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 4: who we know is Prince Andrew, even though he's denied

847
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 4: any wrongdoing. We need to see the files, We need

848
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 4: to see what the FBI did over the years to

849
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 4: investigate these men.

850
00:50:53,840 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 2: Finally, justice for Epstein's victims or another smoke screen to

851
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renowned psychoanalyst, Doctor Bethany, your

852
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 2: advice to the crime victims as we wait to find

853
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 2: out the answer to that question, justice or smokescreen?

854
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 12: Well, I would say to the victims there are no innocence.

855
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 12: I disagree with everybody on this panel. I think anybody

856
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 12: who was on the plane the Lalita Express had to

857
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 12: have seen something. You can't be on an island with

858
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 12: twelve year olds dressed up like college kids and think

859
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 12: that nothing is amiss. The offending pattern, I would say

860
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 12: to the victims. As I said earlier, the offending pattern

861
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 12: is going on. Rich powerful people are using Gillan Maxwell

862
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 12: are using withholding documents to maintain their power, privilege and

863
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 12: their dark secrecy. But don't you worry, victims, because there

864
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 12: are disruptors in society, positive disruptors like Nancy, the people

865
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,399
Speaker 12: on this panel, people who care about you, who want

866
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 12: to protect you. And I do believe that those disruptors

867
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 12: will win out at the beat at the end.

868
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 3: Of the day.

869
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 12: And you, dear victim, are a disruptor too. You are

870
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 12: standing up for victims who will come after you. You're

871
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 12: playing a very important role. And whenever you think you

872
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 12: cannot trust somebody, a partner, a child, a parent, think

873
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 12: about the people who are coming forward and also speaking

874
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 12: on your behalf, and think about those people so that

875
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:28,280
Speaker 12: you can stabilize your attachment systems and have a really

876
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 12: good life, which is what you deserve.

877
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 2: Tonight we remember an American hero, Corporal Blake Reynolds, Delaware

878
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 2: County Sheriff's Indiana, killed in the line of duty, leaving

879
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:45,240
Speaker 2: behind a graving wife, now widow Allison. American hero Corporal

880
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: Blake middles Nancy Gray signing off, Goodbye f