Speaker 1: What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Ladies and Gentlemen. Another QLs is upon us. As I've
Speaker 2: always stated in previous shows, it is fun talking to
Speaker 2: the artists, but oftentimes I find it more fun getting
Speaker 2: the four one one the information from a different perspective,
Speaker 2: and oftentimes, you know, promotion people and our people CEOs
Speaker 2: kind of have a different perspective. And I guess, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe I'm secretly a suit more than I am an artist,
Speaker 2: So I think I enjoy those episodes better. But even
Speaker 2: with the response we get from the podcast, it's often
Speaker 2: when we talk to label CEOs that I get the
Speaker 2: most feedback. So hopefully, if you're like me, this episode
Speaker 2: should be one for the record books and a lot
Speaker 2: of you hip hop junkies out there, you're in retreat
Speaker 2: when you hear Kats my age speak of okay now
Speaker 2: the word of course of the year's renaissance. And you
Speaker 2: know this isn't a Queen Bee reference, but when we're
Speaker 2: speaking of the renaissance era of hip hop, we're talking
Speaker 2: about a specific time period in which I will say
Speaker 2: the Renaissance era of hip hop versus the classic era
Speaker 2: of hip hop is sort of when the music palette,
Speaker 2: as far as sampling is concerned, extended a further reach
Speaker 2: past the first layer of sampling, you know, like the
Speaker 2: first round was like James Brown, George Clinton, and the
Speaker 2: what I call the Wikipedia of crate digging known as
Speaker 2: Ultimate Beats and Breaks compilation, shout out to break Bloo,
Speaker 2: good friend of the show. But all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: you know, all those jazz records and all those boring
Speaker 2: albums in your uncle aunt's record collections started to get
Speaker 2: utilized in this particular era of hip hop, starting with
Speaker 2: kind of in the early nine and extending in the
Speaker 2: decade and oftentimes when we talk about the Renaissance period,
Speaker 2: usually Illmatic is kind of synonymous with that era. However,
Speaker 2: and yes, I will say Illmatic is the pinnacle of
Speaker 2: that particular sound. But from a creative standpoint that the
Speaker 2: label owned by our guest today was probably one of
Speaker 2: the most forward thinking, consistent, envelope pushing hip hop labels
Speaker 2: that pretty much led the charge culturally for the directions
Speaker 2: of what credible hip hop sounded like in a way
Speaker 2: that kind of like def jam was established in the eighties,
Speaker 2: I can go I have to write some of the
Speaker 2: names down Twist a mad Cap. I could spend an
Speaker 2: hour mad Cap alone because I thought, oh, that's a
Speaker 2: lane for the roots, the alcoholics of course, the Wu
Speaker 2: Tang clan, whoever they are, Selah Duellas Mob Deep, Big
Speaker 2: Pun exhibit of my all time favorites. And when we
Speaker 2: ever released a project Pat song, I don't know, Project Pat, Delinquent, Habits,
Speaker 2: Dead Press, Gangsta Boo, Little Flip, the Executioners, even with
Speaker 2: R and B, with Divina LV and Yuvette, Michelle Hey, Yeah,
Speaker 2: Adriana Evans, even like well known vets like Pete Rock,
Speaker 2: beat Nuts, MP three six, Mafia, Uncle, Luke, fump Aster,
Speaker 2: Flex Read Alert. All these, all these greats came to
Speaker 2: uh basically the House of Loud, as I say, but
Speaker 2: it would be who me had also mentioned that our
Speaker 2: guests was very crucial also in the art of what
Speaker 2: we call street promotion, which I guess we take it
Speaker 2: for granted now seeing snipes on the street and seeing
Speaker 2: raps on the vans and seeing stickers everywhere. But a
Speaker 2: lot of that revolution was started in the early nineties
Speaker 2: and our guests had a very extream impact in developing that.
Speaker 2: And not to mention I have to say that it'll
Speaker 2: be exciting to talk to kind of a lineage person
Speaker 2: in terms of the fact that you know his very father,
Speaker 2: you know, the great Jules Rifkin, who owns Spring Records,
Speaker 2: which you know, home to Joe Simon and Millie Jackson
Speaker 2: and Fat Back. You know, his father released the very
Speaker 2: first hip hop single ever, which of course is King
Speaker 2: Tim the Third by Fat Back. You know that if
Speaker 2: the intro is fifteen minutes long, I pray the show
Speaker 2: is nine hours long. We Steve Rifkin. I used to say,
Speaker 2: if you guys can see Steve Rifkin's face right now, but.
Speaker 3: He is like, do we need to talk?
Speaker 2: This is the kind of show in which we're just
Speaker 2: finding out that we're on YouTube, or at least we
Speaker 2: haven't really pumped from the show facked up, so we
Speaker 2: should I now say that, ladies and gentlemen, I don't
Speaker 2: know if you know this, but you know, since what episode?
Speaker 2: What was our first? Tevin camb what was our first?
Speaker 3: It wasn't. No, we go further back than that. Jake,
Speaker 3: what was the first?
Speaker 2: Oh jeez, what was it? Maybe Monica Lynch, Jesus Christ. Okay,
Speaker 2: So yeah, if you go on YouTube, you can actually
Speaker 2: watch these episodes, and I pray that you don't because
Speaker 2: we're mot leap Liia's glam. But the rest of us
Speaker 2: out of mister Rifkin. How are you?
Speaker 4: I'm great? How are you guys?
Speaker 2: I'm great, I'm excited.
Speaker 4: I gotta tell you a funny story. Wendy Golds team signed.
Speaker 4: I know it.
Speaker 2: No, no, don't even I'm gonna ask you about the story.
Speaker 1: Don't even sorry, big go big home, all.
Speaker 2: Right, story Storry. I was like, wait, should I ask
Speaker 2: Hi about the Windy Gold see story?
Speaker 4: So when he signed you, I mean you guys, and
Speaker 4: she signed another artist. You know who that artist was, right, Jiz.
Speaker 4: So she calls me, besides that, I had the Stephen
Speaker 4: Rifkin Company, which had all the Street team and the
Speaker 4: whole street marketing stuff. So she goes, hey, Geffen is
Speaker 4: having a conference. Will you come and speak? And I'm
Speaker 4: like about what she goes about, you know the marketing.
Speaker 4: You know it's really a rock and roll label, and
Speaker 4: you know we just signed Jizz and we just signed
Speaker 4: Actually I think she said she just signed you guys
Speaker 4: that day.
Speaker 2: Yeah she did.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, but I needed to like drive a
Speaker 4: Peter Vegas I knew Wenday, but I really didn't know
Speaker 4: that well. I'm like, do I really want to be
Speaker 4: in a car with her for five hours?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: But the amazing thing was I didn't even want to
Speaker 4: hear Just's album. All I heard you guys had like
Speaker 4: a three or four song demo, right, And I kept
Speaker 4: it on repeat for five fucking hours. And then so
Speaker 4: we get there. My uncle owns at a restaurant. We
Speaker 4: have dinner at the restaurant, I go back to my
Speaker 4: room and I'm just a man. I was like, this
Speaker 4: is some groundbreak and shit, and I must have lost
Speaker 4: those days. I must have lost like fifteen hundred dollars.
Speaker 4: It was like fifty thousand dollars, you know. I was
Speaker 4: just starting out less than five o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 4: and I went to the craft table and Just I
Speaker 4: don't remember the name of the songs, but it motivated me.
Speaker 4: And I ended up winning five thousand dollars and I
Speaker 4: thought I won a million dollars all because of the roots.
Speaker 4: So thank you.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, all right, Steve Rifkin, Wait, I see I
Speaker 2: was going to ask you, all right, so.
Speaker 3: You would have signed them? Then, I'm sorry. I'm just
Speaker 3: going to ask the FANSI no.
Speaker 4: No, no signed them. I didn't had the opportunity to sign.
Speaker 3: You had the opportunity, right because they were already signed.
Speaker 2: I will say that Loud was one of the three
Speaker 2: labels that we didn't go to only because literally, I
Speaker 2: mean I've said the story before. You know, the Roots
Speaker 2: were going to sign to Mercury, to PolyGram, and we
Speaker 2: were like super excited. Oh man, Black Sheep's going to
Speaker 2: be our label mates Da Da Da Da Da. And
Speaker 2: they gave us the contract and three of the names
Speaker 2: were misspelled, so the kind was no all and boy
Speaker 2: because three names were misspelled, and they were like, send
Speaker 2: a new contract with our correct name spelled. And in
Speaker 2: that seventy two hour period, Wendy Goldstein literally came in,
Speaker 2: swooped down and you know, like we did the audition
Speaker 2: for Geffen because we wanted a free dinner. You remember
Speaker 2: book binders on yes and real nice. Right by that point,
Speaker 2: we you know, we were like impressed with like, wow,
Speaker 2: they have orange juice and refrigerator. Like that's how impressed
Speaker 2: we were with That's the first thing. Like we went
Speaker 2: to Wendy Goldsea's office and guess what she had a mirror.
Speaker 2: She had orange juice in the refrigerator all you can drink,
Speaker 2: and we're like what But literally we were like, all right,
Speaker 2: we're gonna do it for the free lobster and steak
Speaker 2: and then we'll sign to PolyGram. And just at the table,
Speaker 2: we literally were like, all right, let's call her bluff
Speaker 2: and just be like, all right, we need two cars,
Speaker 2: and we need like three apartments, and we want a
Speaker 2: full studio da da da da and a partridge in
Speaker 2: a pear tree. And she fucked around and called our
Speaker 2: bluffins like okay.
Speaker 3: And death and money.
Speaker 2: Suddenly no other label mattered anymore, because like it was like, shit,
Speaker 2: she's given us everything we want.
Speaker 4: So who Mercury was going to sign you?
Speaker 2: Ken Yata bell A wow Yo. The anger that he
Speaker 2: had for I always wanted to know what happened to
Speaker 2: his assistant that messed up that contract, Like he was
Speaker 2: near I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, like near suicidal,
Speaker 2: but you know, I've talked to Ed Eckstein since that moment.
Speaker 2: And let's just say the building was not happy with
Speaker 2: losing the roots on a technicality.
Speaker 4: But so my cousin was head of sales and this
Speaker 4: is when they had a sales department and they were
Speaker 4: right stars. He was head of sales for Mercury, and
Speaker 4: I remember him. I didn't know that he was. I mean,
Speaker 4: I didn't know that you were supposed to sign with them.
Speaker 4: So right, he's my older cousin, and I really looked
Speaker 4: up to him. So I was telling him that, you know,
Speaker 4: I how to do this. I had to speak in
Speaker 4: Vegas to this rock and roll craft, which, like I mean,
Speaker 4: I was definitely talking a different language, right, And and
Speaker 4: he goes, we were supposed to sign them. He didn't know,
Speaker 4: he didn't know exactly what happened, but he knew about
Speaker 4: you guys. I said, I said, man, that you guys
Speaker 4: fucked up.
Speaker 2: Oh they were angry. They were angry. I want to
Speaker 2: skip since we're talking this and this is this is
Speaker 2: the thing that I wanted to ask you because you know,
Speaker 2: I know that. I mean, basically, the first album and
Speaker 2: a half was made extremely like just just unorthodox. We
Speaker 2: We did not have a staff whatsoever at Geffen. All
Speaker 2: we had was Wendy Goldstein and like seven credit cards,
Speaker 2: and so you know, we established trust with them where
Speaker 2: they were like here here the credit cards don't you know,
Speaker 2: start traveling to Ruber or whatever, like be responsible. We
Speaker 2: were super responsible. But essentially we were calling out for
Speaker 2: favors from almost every label. You include it, like you
Speaker 2: know Steve Riff Gabill handle street promotions and that I
Speaker 2: at Deaf Jam, like Jessica and Derek will handle that
Speaker 2: at Deaf Jam. Like we were literally moonlighting every label
Speaker 2: for do you Want More?
Speaker 3: And the thing was, I didn't even know you could
Speaker 3: do that.
Speaker 2: I don't you know. It was just different back then.
Speaker 2: But here here's the question I have. So can you
Speaker 2: and I want you to explain to me, because this
Speaker 2: is what I never got explained to me. At least
Speaker 2: the system, Like you remember the periodical. I think that
Speaker 2: it was called Hits. It is still a thing. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: So I knew for us there was there was a
Speaker 2: system of you break in college first, and then after
Speaker 2: the college then you break to mainstream radio. And the
Speaker 2: Roots released their first single the same At least, we
Speaker 2: were under the impression that we released the same time
Speaker 2: that Biggie released Juicy. Now, this is what I think happened.
Speaker 2: What I believed happened was that the buzz for Juicy
Speaker 2: was so big that they leaked it a week early,
Speaker 2: maybe like two days early. So the initial numbers of
Speaker 2: our first single, which I think was like distortion is
Speaker 2: static versus Juicy, was like, Oh, we're gonna crush Biggie.
Speaker 2: But what I think happened was we had a full week,
Speaker 2: seven days of ads on whereas maybe like they decided
Speaker 2: to just you know, leak Juicy a day early, so
Speaker 2: it was like a week of the roots versus one
Speaker 2: day of Biggie, and we were just under the impression
Speaker 2: of like, oh shit, man, we're gonna be kings of
Speaker 2: the world. Like we were like that whole week. It
Speaker 2: was like whatever the equivalent of fight and cigars one
Speaker 2: hundred dollars bills and champagne everywhere, only for the next
Speaker 2: week to come and suddenly, like Biggi's numbers were like
Speaker 2: in the three digits and we were like at thirty eight,
Speaker 2: like literally crush. Can you explain the system of how
Speaker 2: at least back then? And I'm not going to say
Speaker 2: start with protect your neck, because that's just a whole
Speaker 2: nother animal, but say, if you're doing rainy days like
Speaker 2: a single, that doesn't matter, how do you break that
Speaker 2: first to explode and what's the importance of college numbers?
Speaker 4: So for me, I made my living off of college.
Speaker 4: So let's go just go back to you for a second. Okay,
Speaker 4: Wendy was the only one who understood what I was
Speaker 4: working those records. This. I was doing the whole street team, right,
Speaker 4: I know, if you guys were so alternative in the
Speaker 4: hip hop market, I said, just don't rush this, let
Speaker 4: this just marinate and just have the guy that live
Speaker 4: on the road, don't worry about you know, don't worry
Speaker 4: about anything hapened to just go visitologists and maybe even
Speaker 4: some mix shows. And that's it. I mean I never
Speaker 4: really even saw you guys. I didn't even see a
Speaker 4: video yet, but just sonically what I heard, I was like,
Speaker 4: remember like digg Old Planets, Yeah right, I mean it
Speaker 4: was that that. I mean that took eighteen months to break.
Speaker 3: Mhm, what we forget this?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, you're right, so you know and stretch stretch
Speaker 4: of Barbido broke down record.
Speaker 2: You're right.
Speaker 4: That was on a new label called Pendulum Records. That
Speaker 4: was on by reading Yeah right, So, and I forget
Speaker 4: who the head of promotion I think it's his name
Speaker 4: was Steve Too, And I just forget who the head
Speaker 4: of promotion was. And I was like, you don't have
Speaker 4: to worry about radio. Let us just keep this at
Speaker 4: college radio. Brian Sampson, who was running the Gavin Report
Speaker 4: at College Radio, was flipping over the music and that's
Speaker 4: all we needed right this second, and they just wanted
Speaker 4: to take it to radio, and then you know, it
Speaker 4: was what it was now.
Speaker 2: Of course, the second part of that story is like
Speaker 2: we were like super depressed and thought like our lives
Speaker 2: were over, and you know, but now that thirty years
Speaker 2: have passed, it's almost like, you know, this, this tortoise
Speaker 2: in the hair journey that we took was worth it all,
Speaker 2: you know, to kind of still be here. But for me,
Speaker 2: I just never because we weren't in the States, you know,
Speaker 2: we were living in Europe, so between like ninety three
Speaker 2: and ninety eight, I had zero clue of what the
Speaker 2: system was on how to jump in the double Dutch
Speaker 2: rope and thrive and survive like that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: And you know, because we were asked like can we
Speaker 2: do Jack the Rapper, can we do how can I
Speaker 2: be down? Like all those things that we hear about,
Speaker 2: and we just always felt like Rudolph the Red Dudes,
Speaker 2: Like we didn't start meeting hip hop gods, like you know,
Speaker 2: we didn't meet Wu Tang until like ninety nine at
Speaker 2: that at that great day in Harlem. Shoot, that's the
Speaker 2: that was like the first.
Speaker 3: Ever did the convention circuit y'all never did br.
Speaker 2: Like we were living in Europe just like our whole
Speaker 2: thing was like, well, you know, we're not going to
Speaker 2: be breakout stars in the States, so we better just
Speaker 2: like plan our seeds for longevity over here in Europe.
Speaker 2: And by things all apart, they were like, Okay, you
Speaker 2: guys got to come home and actually promote this record,
Speaker 2: not like be there. But anyway, I digress. I do
Speaker 2: want to start from the beginning. Steve Rifkin, what was
Speaker 2: your very first musical memory?
Speaker 4: My very first musical memory was five years old at
Speaker 4: the Apollo Theater watching in Jackson five.
Speaker 2: Wow, do you know what year? This was?
Speaker 4: Sixty seven? Sixty eight.
Speaker 2: Six. This is the third story we've had of people
Speaker 2: that have been at that particular Jackson's concert.
Speaker 4: And No, I was with my dad. I was with
Speaker 4: my dad. So my dad managed a DJ called Tommy
Speaker 4: Small and Tommy had a club puffing home called the
Speaker 4: Smallest Paradise.
Speaker 3: Carlem Knights, that's real. I never I'm sorry, I got you.
Speaker 2: Sorry.
Speaker 4: So before Frankie Krackett, Tommy Small's was the most powerful
Speaker 4: DJ in urban music or armbu set right, and it
Speaker 4: was a station called w w r L and it
Speaker 4: was based out of Jersey. I saw the Jack and
Speaker 4: five you know, on the Ed Sullivan Show, and then
Speaker 4: like two weeks later there at the Apollo and it
Speaker 4: was it was my first live show.
Speaker 3: The scene are you at the seat?
Speaker 4: We were on the stage.
Speaker 3: Of course, that's what I didn't want to as soon.
Speaker 2: How old were you when you recognized what your dad did? Man,
Speaker 2: I have the feeling that he kind of lured you
Speaker 2: into the business early or without knowing, or trained you
Speaker 2: without knowing.
Speaker 4: It was my grandfather. I was major league the I
Speaker 4: didn't know how to read it right till I was
Speaker 4: fourteen fifteen years old, okay. So I was getting in
Speaker 4: a lot of trouble, and not that I need you know,
Speaker 4: I didn't need to steal because I didn't need the money.
Speaker 4: You know. My dad had James Brown, you know, and
Speaker 4: he had Joe Simon bat back then. So I was
Speaker 4: just doing it to look to get to attention, but
Speaker 4: it was really getting to a place where I was
Speaker 4: to go to jail or get killed. And like my
Speaker 4: grandfather called me down to Florida. We'll all juice go
Speaker 4: and he was in the nightclub business, and he said,
Speaker 4: he said, he goes, He goes, you gotta get your
Speaker 4: shit together. He goes, you're gonna end up dead or
Speaker 4: in jail. And he goes, why don't you do what
Speaker 4: your cousin Randy did? And then my cousin who worked
Speaker 4: at I go, what did he do? Because he goes
Speaker 4: to visit radio stations. I'm like, who am I going
Speaker 4: to do it for? He goes, I follow. My father
Speaker 4: wants nothing to do with me. He goes and my
Speaker 4: father was partners with my uncle, and he goes, I'll
Speaker 4: deal with it. So like a week later he called
Speaker 4: the house. You know, there were no cell phones. This
Speaker 4: is nineteen seventy nine, nineteen eighty, and he just pick
Speaker 4: me up at the airport at four o'clock. So I
Speaker 4: go pick them up at the airport and go where
Speaker 4: we're going. I thought I was going back to my
Speaker 4: house because now we're going into the city. We could
Speaker 4: go see your father and uncle, and they pretty much
Speaker 4: sit me down. They said, you're gonna go on the
Speaker 4: road for three weeks, and you didn't go visit radio stations.
Speaker 4: So I'm eighteen years old, and those three weeks turned
Speaker 4: to be close to three years, a little into three
Speaker 4: years where I zigzagged all across the country. You know,
Speaker 4: I always had ten dollars worth of cordings. There were
Speaker 4: no cell phones, there was no GPS. I didn't even
Speaker 4: know how to read a map. I would just get
Speaker 4: a payphone, put in fifty cents, I called the next station,
Speaker 4: how do I get there from here? And I would
Speaker 4: write it that long and I wish I still had
Speaker 4: the book.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so radio promotions.
Speaker 4: Yeah there was. There was There was no mixture. There
Speaker 4: wasn't anything at the time. You know.
Speaker 2: It's just so I'm clear now. You know when I
Speaker 2: mentioned Spring Records, which is you know, subsidiary of Polydor,
Speaker 2: was he was your father promoting all black acts on Polydor?
Speaker 2: Like did this also include Mandreil and James Brown as well?
Speaker 2: Or just strictly the Spring acts like Millie Jackson, Joe Simon.
Speaker 4: So James, my dad brought PolyGram into the States.
Speaker 2: Oh so he gave James Brown his first offer.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so so what happened was PolyGram. I think the
Speaker 4: president's name was Erwin Steinberg. Yes, he goes, he goes,
Speaker 4: give us, give us James under the PolyGram logo. But
Speaker 4: you'll eat the way it's your label. Were it's still.
Speaker 2: Signed to you. So he would have been on Spring Records.
Speaker 4: He would have, but it was it was like PolyGram's
Speaker 4: first urban artist. So, I mean James performed at my
Speaker 4: bay Mitza what you know?
Speaker 2: You can't skip that shit?
Speaker 4: Wait?
Speaker 2: Thirteen was what year for you? Where year were you born?
Speaker 4: I was born sixty two February first, nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 2: Ah damn yeah, mustache James out of curiosity?
Speaker 5: Do you know.
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 2: At least what negotiations were just in terms of him
Speaker 2: leaving King. I never knew how he went from King
Speaker 2: two PolyGram.
Speaker 4: I was eighty, you know, probably so you know, my
Speaker 4: dad was really a special guy, like he really like,
Speaker 4: you know, he didn't see color. You know, you mentioned
Speaker 4: Jack the rapper earlier, right, you know, so you know Jack,
Speaker 4: Jack start off in radio and then he became like
Speaker 4: a promotion guy, you know, and Jack was really light skinned,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, almost yeah, ass and and and the.
Speaker 4: Whole and the hotels. You know, they wouldn't let black
Speaker 4: people sleep in certain hotels. You know, my dad would
Speaker 4: bring him into the hotel.
Speaker 2: Wow, did they know he.
Speaker 5: Was black though when he brought the because because Jack
Speaker 5: could have went either way, so he just passed.
Speaker 4: And yeah, but but the thing was this, if they did,
Speaker 4: you know, there'd be two dead bodies, you know. And
Speaker 4: my father you know kept this. You know his guys right,
Speaker 4: you know, nobody was allowed to even go near the road.
Speaker 3: Can I ask you, Steve?
Speaker 5: It's fascinating because you said, like, so your dad has
Speaker 5: been on this side of when did he start getting
Speaker 5: into music in this lane, like in this R and
Speaker 5: B lane? Was it your grandfather because you said your
Speaker 5: grandfather was also a part of your process.
Speaker 4: So my my grandfather owned the club called the Boulevard.
Speaker 4: So you had the Copa which was which was like
Speaker 4: the highlight, you know, the major player. But before you
Speaker 4: get before you could even get a shot at the Copa,
Speaker 4: you had a kick ass at the Boulevard. And the
Speaker 4: Boulevard was was in Queens, on Queens Boulevard, you know,
Speaker 4: So what happened was you know, my grandfather was somebody
Speaker 4: that you didn't want to mess with. You know, his
Speaker 4: three best friends were you know, pretty powerful guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm always curious about the
Speaker 2: I mean, the only person I know this era that
Speaker 2: had muscle that often our guest talks about is Mars
Speaker 2: Levy Mars Leave. Yeah, Mars.
Speaker 4: Mars had a lot of muscle. But my grandfather was
Speaker 4: extremely close with Mars. But my grandfather would put you
Speaker 4: in a headline and said, my two sons have to imagine. Oh,
Speaker 4: so Flip Wilson came out of there, Lola came out
Speaker 4: of there, that Churels came out of there. I could
Speaker 4: call my mom and I could just you know, find
Speaker 4: out a whole everybody.
Speaker 2: But yeah, according to you, what year did quote that
Speaker 2: level of business? And and the what I what I
Speaker 2: dubbed the starbucksification of it. Like I don't know if
Speaker 2: you remember the episode of The Sopranos when those guys
Speaker 2: saw the like the first Starbucks, and they try to
Speaker 2: go inside to shake them down, and then realize like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is like a corporate thing, This is not like
Speaker 2: just a local mom and pop thing. And this is
Speaker 2: when they realized that we just can't shake you down
Speaker 2: and do business like on our level, like in your
Speaker 2: in your mind and mind. You I know that you
Speaker 2: entering hip hop. I don't know how as big as
Speaker 2: your label was, you didn't somehow fall into the crossfires
Speaker 2: of what was ninety two to ninety eight.
Speaker 4: I mean, they knew they couldn't do anything to me, right,
Speaker 4: So you're talking about the East coast, West coast, right,
Speaker 4: So I mean we had a passive that office is
Speaker 4: in la entity. So we made it clear from the
Speaker 4: from the get go, we're staying out of it with
Speaker 4: minding our own business and if we're going to get touched,
Speaker 4: people going to get touched back.
Speaker 3: Says for all your roster too, not just Usty, but
Speaker 3: like that was the roster everybody.
Speaker 4: Well no, well, you know, so like when Park was
Speaker 4: my roommate, like I marketed Pak's first record when he
Speaker 4: was just signed to Endoscope directly, and he would stay
Speaker 4: with me. We would be on the road Thursday through Monday,
Speaker 4: and even though he was living up in the Bay,
Speaker 4: he would stay with me for those two days because
Speaker 4: we had a shipload of work. So you know, when
Speaker 4: that whole thing started, I'm like I'm walking into the
Speaker 4: House of Blues and he's there, you know, and I
Speaker 4: got a ball head, you know, and he smacks me
Speaker 4: in the head, but you know, and it's stung, so
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's a love pat or a
Speaker 4: real smack, right, And he looked and he looks me, Look,
Speaker 4: you're not gonna say a load to me. I'm like, man,
Speaker 4: I don't know where I stand with you. And he
Speaker 4: goes tell those two little lens that I'm just doing
Speaker 4: this to keep myself relevant.
Speaker 2: I love this ship somehow, I knew that h somehow ire.
Speaker 4: And we hugged, and you know, like two weeks later
Speaker 4: he was gone, oh.
Speaker 2: Shit, all right, where's theick zaging back and forth?
Speaker 5: Wait on that note, I will I do invite everybody
Speaker 5: to go to the top two pockets. Have you been
Speaker 5: to the exhibit Steve out in La Downtown. It's a
Speaker 5: beyond all notebook pages, all everything. I just want to
Speaker 5: stay on that note.
Speaker 3: Get to know your man.
Speaker 2: Yes, I've heard, I've heard a lot about this beautiful
Speaker 2: So for you, what do you consider really your your
Speaker 2: true entry as far as like both feet on the ground,
Speaker 2: this is my entry into the music business. What marks
Speaker 2: that for you, like, what year? What project?
Speaker 4: So it was nineteen eighty three maybe and with Jimmy
Speaker 4: Spicer laill y'all.
Speaker 2: Shit, that's right. That is on Spring.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was Russell's first steal and that.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, is this the connection to is this
Speaker 2: how this makes it?
Speaker 4: Cream? No?
Speaker 2: They just did that. He knew it. I'm not.
Speaker 4: I don't know if they knew it. They just I
Speaker 4: mean Jet When I heard, I was like, holy shit,
Speaker 4: I mean, but who is Jimmy Spice and Fatback had
Speaker 4: a record called Spread Love? Yes, and then they had
Speaker 4: another one. But actually when you mentioned the second second singles, So,
Speaker 4: but there was a record on the album called Just
Speaker 4: the Sign of the Future featuring Jerry bloodsoell.
Speaker 2: You mean is this the future?
Speaker 4: Or is this the future? Yeah? It's just the future?
Speaker 2: Wait that was you guys too?
Speaker 4: That was Fatback?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so shit.
Speaker 4: So they wanted me to meet this old promotion guy
Speaker 4: but named it David Clark. H and I'm eight, I'm
Speaker 4: twenty one years old. That Dave Clark is in his
Speaker 4: late sixties and he's like an old school promotion guy,
Speaker 4: but one of the best promotion guys ever in the
Speaker 4: history of promotion right, and he closed me up and
Speaker 4: he says, you know, we're gonna have dinner with It
Speaker 4: was a radio station called w HRK, which was in Memphis.
Speaker 4: We're going to dinner, and I'm saying to myself, this
Speaker 4: guy's sixty six, sixty seven years old, and he wants
Speaker 4: me to go to the club with him afterwards, and
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm not going to the club. So I
Speaker 4: find the college, so it was University of Memphis, and
Speaker 4: I forget who the DJ was at the time, but
Speaker 4: he takes me to the club and there is Dave
Speaker 4: Clark with for of the most beautiful women. I've got
Speaker 4: this shit in my life, and I was like, motherfucker.
Speaker 4: But literally that's how I ended up putting the whole
Speaker 4: Street team together. I would after going visiting the program
Speaker 4: directors and music directors, doing what I have to do.
Speaker 4: I started building my own network at just that college radio,
Speaker 4: and that was always my foundation in my base.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm also just visualizing this in my head
Speaker 2: and now this is this is totally this is make consense.
Speaker 2: All right. Okay, Look, we've had radio people CEOs on
Speaker 2: the show before, and you know, I've maybe dipped my
Speaker 2: toe in the water with asking these questions. So I'm
Speaker 2: going to ask you under the guys that yes, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm certain that the statue limitations or the grace period
Speaker 2: has passed.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: A lot of the times when this question gets deflected,
Speaker 2: he's usually like, oh, so long ago, I don't even remember. Okay,
Speaker 2: take that Jimmy Spicer record in nineteen eighty three. You
Speaker 2: don't even have to specifically mention yourself. But if I
Speaker 2: am a promotion guy trying to get that song played
Speaker 2: on the radio, work levels of negotiations? Do I just
Speaker 2: stoop to to get that played on the radio?
Speaker 4: I mean, it really all depends how good a promotion
Speaker 4: guy you really are.
Speaker 2: All right, so how much how much juice? What juice
Speaker 2: do you have to use? And again, whatever story, whatever
Speaker 2: stories you can tell.
Speaker 4: So I'm going to tell you a story, thank you. Right,
Speaker 4: Frankie Crocker a WBLS, Yes, right, right, right, There was
Speaker 4: a club.
Speaker 2: Called the Garage Paradise.
Speaker 4: Garage Paradise best sound system in New York. Right, Larry
Speaker 4: was the DJ. The club opened up at at six
Speaker 4: six thirty in the morning.
Speaker 2: Wait, what right?
Speaker 4: I mean people, that's when people would leave whatever club,
Speaker 4: and then they would go to the Slumber, you know,
Speaker 4: and it was a gay club but with the best
Speaker 4: sound system in the world. And Larry was such a
Speaker 4: trendset of DJing wise, so I go, I go with
Speaker 4: Frankie one night and what that like? Well, frank I've
Speaker 4: known Frankie since I was eleven years old. Right when
Speaker 4: Frankie came home after the payover scandal, I think my
Speaker 4: dad and a few other people mars leaving a few
Speaker 4: other people throw him a party at Studio fifty four.
Speaker 4: It's he and he goes upstairs to the DJ booth
Speaker 4: and he stepped around anywhere between thirty forty five minutes.
Speaker 4: So you know, in those days, you know the twelve
Speaker 4: inch you know, a record would be ten to fifteen
Speaker 4: minutes slong. So whatever Larry played, say between six thirty
Speaker 4: and seven o'clock in the morning, Frankie was going to add.
Speaker 4: So when I went back to following week, I was like,
Speaker 4: he's he I just put two and two together. So
Speaker 4: I would call Wendy Goldsen and say, hey, I can
Speaker 4: get the Roots record added the BLS because I knew
Speaker 4: and I'm looking at the time, and I knew Frankie's
Speaker 4: up there, those three records would play, and I used
Speaker 4: to and I took a a guest and it worked,
Speaker 4: and I was making a shitload of money, and I was,
Speaker 4: you know, people saying, how are you doing this? And
Speaker 4: then I realized I just kept it to myself. I
Speaker 4: didn't tell my father, I didn't tell my uncle, I
Speaker 4: didn't tal I didn't even tell Frankie.
Speaker 2: So basically, you're saying Frankie would use Larry Levan as
Speaker 2: his human shizam.
Speaker 4: As his right So everybody has like, you know what,
Speaker 4: what's that? So Larry was Franky's.
Speaker 2: So did what I'm asking though, is the payola truly
Speaker 2: truly stoped? And what was what was like the case
Speaker 2: that broke Paola, like to the point where the FEDS
Speaker 2: got involved.
Speaker 4: I mean there were a lot of cases. There was
Speaker 4: something in the late eighties of the mid eighties on
Speaker 4: the pop side, but I never really I'm being honest.
Speaker 2: I'm asking who would be the person that would snitch
Speaker 2: and say, hey, like, is it is it a label
Speaker 2: that can't get airtime or can't get played? And they're like, well,
Speaker 2: obviously they're playing thriller every twelve seconds, So let's call
Speaker 2: the FEDS on. It's almost like the DJ drama situation
Speaker 2: to me, like who has enough time to like make
Speaker 2: a phone call to the top of the pyramid to say, hey,
Speaker 2: we got to arrest blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: Because me personally, I think I think it were the
Speaker 4: markets that were probably not getting whatever they needed to
Speaker 4: get and they were probably riding out on the bigger markets.
Speaker 4: But you're right, who has the time? I don't understand
Speaker 4: the rat mentality, So it's.
Speaker 5: A mean it's only enough space, but so much based
Speaker 5: on a playlist, So yeah, if you take enough five slots,
Speaker 5: that's a problem.
Speaker 2: Did you find it, like I know there was a
Speaker 2: sort of a seed change in around ninety six, like
Speaker 2: once Clear Channel, once a new level of radio comes
Speaker 2: in which like they're now pre programming songs way ahead
Speaker 2: of time. For you, what was the period in which
Speaker 2: your actual DJ, your personality when did they lose their
Speaker 2: power like the Frankie Croppers of the world, the Taste Makers.
Speaker 4: Well, Frankie was the program direct so he never he
Speaker 4: never really lost his power. Like you said, I think
Speaker 4: when the Clear Channels came in the world, when it
Speaker 4: when it became when it became corporate, you know you
Speaker 4: you were trying to ask earlier. It's like, when did
Speaker 4: the Mob leave the music business? Right, or you know whatever.
Speaker 4: I think once everything started getting corporate, like when Vegas
Speaker 4: came and the major corporation started getting buying the hotels boom,
Speaker 4: I think when major corporations started buying the major record companies,
Speaker 4: like when General Electric, you know, I think, I get yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, so I think that's when all that shit
Speaker 4: just got cut to the wayside.
Speaker 2: All right, So in your opinion, what's the better era,
Speaker 2: the Mob era of the record business or the corporate
Speaker 2: era of the record business.
Speaker 4: To me, the Mob era, of course, it was more
Speaker 4: of a creative business.
Speaker 5: But then a Mob era it was it was a
Speaker 5: ceiling for people of color to be in executive positions
Speaker 5: and to make decisions and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like right also, but then the
Speaker 2: other side of that is a lot of the creative
Speaker 2: you know, a guy like Crocker or even you. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you decided like you could have been the person
Speaker 2: that broke the roots out.
Speaker 3: I know that's true for radio people. It sucked.
Speaker 5: I mean, however, I will say it didn't suck for
Speaker 5: mixed DJs up until the odds because although corporate took
Speaker 5: over radio, mixed DJs could still do they little wiggle
Speaker 5: wiggle wiggle you know.
Speaker 4: Maybe I mean they still like the program directors have
Speaker 4: to play this record, so you know, I think they.
Speaker 3: Was but they did, they did.
Speaker 5: I just mean it was it was a middle and
Speaker 5: in between of what a MIRR was talking about with corporate. Yes,
Speaker 5: but then all of a sudden, mix DJs had to
Speaker 5: play certain records that their pds were telling them that
Speaker 5: they had to play. But I'm just saying you also
Speaker 5: remember if you think about it, and were certain DJs
Speaker 5: in Philadelphia, they was getting a couple of dollars for
Speaker 5: the mix show.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll say, now it's a little exciting. I mean,
Speaker 2: I you know, I don't know how far what fump
Speaker 2: Master Flex is doing now, huh, which is you know, like,
Speaker 2: to me, this is probably the best thing that I've
Speaker 2: seen fump Master Flex dude during his entire tenure, like
Speaker 2: at Hot ninety seven, which is basically challenge acts to
Speaker 2: you know, provide him with us. Okay, you complain out
Speaker 2: and support you. Okay, you got seven days to make
Speaker 2: a song and bring it to me, and it's really
Speaker 2: at least the buzz of it now, at least from
Speaker 2: like my inner circle. Cats are now like it's almost
Speaker 2: like they have a reason to live, Like suddenly their
Speaker 2: antenna is on high and they're like more excited to
Speaker 2: make music now because of the pressure of Flex called
Speaker 2: me out. I got to have a song in seven days.
Speaker 2: So now, wow, No, it's it's buzzed. I mean even
Speaker 2: to the point where you know, we us like, hey
Speaker 2: we might get that call. Let's let's start getting our
Speaker 2: arsenal ready. Like that's things happening.
Speaker 3: So that's an interesting question for Steve because I was like, man,
Speaker 3: it just makes me.
Speaker 5: It really reminds me of like when mixed DJ's like
Speaker 5: in every city there was a mixed DJ that was King, right,
Speaker 5: I mean kind of in a way right radio mixed DJ.
Speaker 3: So now I'm curious if Funk.
Speaker 5: Glass and Flecks and people like that still have the
Speaker 5: same level of like pull influence that they used to.
Speaker 4: Like I think with Flex, I think he's still I
Speaker 4: think his voice is still something as you guys were
Speaker 4: just saying, you know, if he's on Instagram and he's
Speaker 4: challenging really to put out a record, you know, you
Speaker 4: know Bus to just put something out the other day,
Speaker 4: you know, he challenged Buss to put something out. So
Speaker 4: I think it's really just in your DNA, like in
Speaker 4: your personality.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: Flex you know has always you know been you know,
Speaker 4: he's bringing like he you know, he's always reinventing himself.
Speaker 4: You know, you got to take your hat off to him.
Speaker 4: He's making it, he's keeping himself relevant.
Speaker 2: I hope this this spreads like wildfire, like we complaining
Speaker 2: about the state of hip hop, but oftentimes, like we're
Speaker 2: not challenged to really you know, bring it because oftentimes
Speaker 2: it's just a survival game, you know for a lot
Speaker 2: of these acts.
Speaker 4: Now, you're right, but you know what, I challenge the
Speaker 4: executives too, to start finding a new route, you know,
Speaker 4: and taking chances and get off yours and be outside
Speaker 4: and and find something new and exciting that thirty years
Speaker 4: from now it's going to have fucking longevity, that it's
Speaker 4: still going to be relevant to something. And these executives
Speaker 4: today aren't doing that. Preach and that's and and and
Speaker 4: and that's and that's coming from the top. I'm not
Speaker 4: even blaming them. You know, it's all about a fucking
Speaker 4: TikTok and a number. You know, I just remamped my
Speaker 4: dad's label and it's like, and you know, my son
Speaker 4: is running the labies twenty seventy years old, and I'm like,
Speaker 4: his name is Alex. I'm like, Alex. People still got
Speaker 4: to touch the fucking street and they got to touch people,
Speaker 4: you know, So find the fucking way where you can
Speaker 4: merge both, you know, And that's what quality control, that's
Speaker 4: what topic, you know. And it's like they still own
Speaker 4: the streets, and so the business doesn't really change. Words change,
Speaker 4: but people. You know, what made the music business so great.
Speaker 4: People took chances. I mean, look like what Russell did,
Speaker 4: Joe and Sylvia Robinson. You know, let's go back to
Speaker 4: the time of hip hop, right, I mean they all
Speaker 4: took chances.
Speaker 2: I know about that initial period in eighty three, but
Speaker 2: once hip hop really truly gains momentum, What was your
Speaker 2: view on it in terms of like what it was
Speaker 2: in the mid eighties to late eighties during that sort
Speaker 2: of that first golden era, What was your role in it.
Speaker 4: I was just an independent promotion guy at the time.
Speaker 2: You know the three.
Speaker 4: You know, there's a guy by the name of Hiram
Speaker 4: Hicks was from Philly, oh yeah, and we became extremely close.
Speaker 4: And you know, he was extremely close to Mike Bivin
Speaker 4: from New Addition, and they were coming up to New
Speaker 4: York and I was in the I was. I wasn't
Speaker 4: on the road at the time. I was up and
Speaker 4: I was, I was in New York and he was,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be in towent with Mike from the audition,
Speaker 4: and I was like, all right, cool, come by the office.
Speaker 4: We came by. I guess they're having issues with their manager.
Speaker 4: They wanted to find their manager. Hiram, myself, my dad,
Speaker 4: and my uncle. We started my managing the audition. That
Speaker 4: was like eighty five eighty six, so.
Speaker 2: For the All for Love period, no I remember now.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you the we got involved with the Once
Speaker 4: a Lifetime Grove single.
Speaker 2: Okay, so right after right after Cooling now yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 4: Okay, and then when was the Any Heartbreak album eighty
Speaker 4: seven eight eight. So I moved to la in eighty
Speaker 4: eight as we're managing New Edition, and I hooked up
Speaker 4: with a label called Malicious viol which at Young FC. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so that was Mike Ross Rick Ross that day and
Speaker 4: then the tone Wold video I think costs like five
Speaker 4: hundred hours. Yes, And there was a guy they named
Speaker 4: Rick Krim. Yes, just Rick was at MTV and he
Speaker 4: would just happen to be just a really good friend
Speaker 4: of mine, you know. And MTV was playing just rock shit,
Speaker 4: so I never had any business with him. And they
Speaker 4: were starting. He called me up and he said, we
Speaker 4: was starting this new thing called Joe MTV. This wasn't dead,
Speaker 4: this was just weekly because it was with Freddie the fact, right.
Speaker 4: I said, Oh, it's funny that you said that, I'm
Speaker 4: going to send you a video with this kid and
Speaker 4: see if you like it. And it was torn Boat,
Speaker 4: you know, and they put it in your for one
Speaker 4: week and then it went into whatever the word was,
Speaker 4: buzz bin or whatever, and the record just took off.
Speaker 2: All right, So casually just dropping these bombs, can you
Speaker 2: pre loud? Can you just name other projects you just
Speaker 2: just happened to Forrest gump your way into.
Speaker 4: From eighty seven to until I sold Laps in ninety nine,
Speaker 4: you know, the only record I never really worked good.
Speaker 4: I mean I pretty much worked everything except for Death ROWT.
Speaker 4: But I even did some records for Russell and and
Speaker 4: puff puffed at or something, but ship from Dose Effects
Speaker 4: to EPMD to K Solo to Q tip and try.
Speaker 3: To well, what's the first street team you did, though, Steve?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 3: What was the first?
Speaker 4: Like the first record was brand newby and slowed Down.
Speaker 5: I just I need you to break down your whole
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, Mirror, I don't even break down your whole
Speaker 5: mind state of creating street Team because I'm fascinated from
Speaker 5: being at a radio station and them then turning their
Speaker 5: promo teams into street teams, and every other record company
Speaker 5: turn in their think your situation.
Speaker 3: So tell me, please, you have to ask.
Speaker 2: Your question, because what was the year that you consider
Speaker 2: street team to actually be like a flag planning moment?
Speaker 2: And are you saying that before then?
Speaker 4: So I'm gonna tall I'm going to tell you, okay
Speaker 4: for me, okay, when the brand New being Slowdown come out?
Speaker 4: All right? So eighty nine, well, no, I would say
Speaker 4: eighty nine. I took my last three thousand dollars MM
Speaker 4: and I made these pamphlets and I sent it to
Speaker 4: all the record companies, and I came and I came
Speaker 4: to New York and I stood up meetings with everybody,
Speaker 4: and I told them we were going to do. We
Speaker 4: weren't going to focus on radio because you said you
Speaker 4: came from radio, right, you weren't playing that many rapp words.
Speaker 5: Yes, the people before me, five years before me, Yes,
Speaker 5: but I got you ye right, So nine wrap radio.
Speaker 4: Yeah right. So at the at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: I came back with one hundred and forty six thousand
Speaker 4: dollars run of business, oh pamphlet from the pamphlet, and
Speaker 4: it was just and I covered everything, like, you know,
Speaker 4: we empowered the mixed show DJ, We empowered the college
Speaker 4: radio like and just you know, the barbershops like and
Speaker 4: it was just wherever there were a group of people,
Speaker 4: we would just go and attack and just you know
Speaker 4: where the map, you know. And my philosophy is even
Speaker 4: to this day, how many times have you ready to
Speaker 4: be you if it's a recular movie, a restaurant whatever
Speaker 4: it was that the review is straight garbage, but the
Speaker 4: ship was incredible. Shank me down right, really, I mean
Speaker 4: bad news, harviews.
Speaker 2: We're still here. Yeah, So you're saying before that, like,
Speaker 2: because I can't imagine New York without seeing snipes of
Speaker 2: an album coming out or stickers everywhere of all those things.
Speaker 2: So between you and Renee, who was the first to really.
Speaker 4: That was early night, you know. But I'm gonna you
Speaker 4: know the one when we did I'm gonna get that
Speaker 4: Joe a lot of credit. Okay, So when we signed punk,
Speaker 4: you drove down the West Side Highway. We must have
Speaker 4: spent twenty thousand dollars on posted.
Speaker 3: I mean, You're literally was black and yellows right from the.
Speaker 4: Bridge to fucking Basketball City.
Speaker 3: What can I see those? I can see it?
Speaker 4: That's I mean that that was Joe saying this is
Speaker 4: what we got to do, you know, And and that
Speaker 4: was just my philosophy. It's like, I didn't grow up
Speaker 4: on the street. The street excites me. I mean I
Speaker 4: go along alur right, So who am I to say
Speaker 4: no to somebody like when they had that type of
Speaker 4: passion and.
Speaker 3: The full concept of everybody wearing something similar to Yeah.
Speaker 4: But like my head of my the head of my
Speaker 4: street team in New York closed me up one night
Speaker 4: fucking ecstatic. He was, I just wrapped the attenor of
Speaker 4: the Empire State Building. I'm like, say what, And I'm
Speaker 4: like the antenna of the I'm like, first of all,
Speaker 4: that's the dumbest thing like, I mean, you know, like
Speaker 4: you can. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard because
Speaker 4: you can't fucking see it.
Speaker 5: So on that note, then have you had to bail
Speaker 5: people out of jail and stuff? Because sometimes three teens
Speaker 5: go hard? I was like this say, and then they
Speaker 5: fight each other.
Speaker 2: You violate the post no bills of all, like when
Speaker 2: you walk into our office, like behind me exceptions.
Speaker 4: You know, there was like five bells, bonds and a
Speaker 4: bunch of criminal attorneys pretty much in every city.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, it just hit me. It just hit
Speaker 2: me the night. If you you older Roots fans can
Speaker 2: remember the infamous Old Dirty Bastard moment with the Roots
Speaker 2: at uh at Irving Plaza. I believe that Irving Plaza
Speaker 2: was one of the first clubs too, and the Roots
Speaker 2: not because of us in general or or the fight
Speaker 2: between Old Dirty Bastard. What's what's the thing when you
Speaker 2: get spray paint and then you lay a like you
Speaker 2: lay a grid on the on the ground, and then.
Speaker 4: You spray paint it and then it's just stencil.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember that that there was a bunch of
Speaker 2: hell on Earth. There was a bunch of mob deep
Speaker 2: hell on Earth. Stencils all over Irving Plaza.
Speaker 5: And.
Speaker 4: You know there was also a bunch of Nike swishes too.
Speaker 2: Okay, no, no, I'm not playing.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: It was just like there was just like no more wrapping,
Speaker 2: like they actually mob deep like so for like two years,
Speaker 2: like no hip hop was allowed an IRB implative just
Speaker 2: because of the level of Street team. But okay, without
Speaker 2: a college degree in terms of knowing the power that
Speaker 2: you have with this type of marketing, because you know, essentially,
Speaker 2: if you're in a car, you got about two point
Speaker 2: nine seconds to just look to your right to see
Speaker 2: something and have it stick to your brain. Were you
Speaker 2: in terms like doing these snipes and doing this this
Speaker 2: sort of level of street promotion, were you also like
Speaker 2: designing the snipes, like would you know that with big
Speaker 2: pun that yellow and black will stand out?
Speaker 4: And so we had our own art, you know. So
Speaker 4: I mean they would be working twenty four seven, like
Speaker 4: you know, and they would just until Joe approved whatever
Speaker 4: needed to get done. Joe approved it. But you know,
Speaker 4: but with the street team, to me, everybody as their
Speaker 4: research now you know, and you know, is it doing this,
Speaker 4: it's doing that. But whatever the city was in, like
Speaker 4: we knew the most popular bus, where the kids were going,
Speaker 4: you know, from school to to the to the deli
Speaker 4: or you know whatever it was, so that that's the
Speaker 4: type of research that that we were doing it. I
Speaker 4: didn't care about anything else. It's just where are the kids,
Speaker 4: and where are the kids populating? And where the kids
Speaker 4: hanging out? You know, And that's and that's really all
Speaker 4: I care about. I didn't care about every time we
Speaker 4: came with the record, I would say, if we get
Speaker 4: these five stations, we'll do three hundred thousand. We get
Speaker 4: these fifteen stations, we'll go go. We get twenty five stations,
Speaker 4: we'll go planning. If we run the gamut, we're gonna
Speaker 4: go multiplan. I didn't give a fuck about that whole thing.
Speaker 4: All I can't, you know, I have a corny saying
Speaker 4: the streets don't lie. And it could be whatever you
Speaker 4: could be on a day or drive franch are one
Speaker 4: hundred and twenty fifty, whatever it is. You know, you
Speaker 4: just got to find your base and your foundation.
Speaker 2: So so with having this this this well oiled machine
Speaker 2: establishing in the early nineties and whatnot, why step into
Speaker 2: starting your own label? Why not like turn this into
Speaker 2: like the one thing you focus on and making that.
Speaker 4: The So this is a great question. So I think
Speaker 4: I'm a multi multi millionaires. I'm doing a few hundred
Speaker 4: thousand dollars a year now, and I come back to
Speaker 4: New York. I'm living in LA I come back to
Speaker 4: New York for my cousin's wedding. And there was a
Speaker 4: guy that named a Jerry Ad from the Famous Artists Agency,
Speaker 4: and every time I came, every time I came to
Speaker 4: New York, he would let me work out of his office.
Speaker 4: And he goes, I don't understand.
Speaker 2: He was, what do you mean?
Speaker 4: He goes, why don't you have your own labor? Like,
Speaker 4: why the fuck do I want my own label? I'm good,
Speaker 4: Like I would work the three o'clock change, go to
Speaker 4: basketball courts, playball, go home, shower and eat dinner, go
Speaker 4: back to your office and send out my reports. So
Speaker 4: you know, as we said earlier, and my family really
Speaker 4: doesn't play. So he goes, well, we take this meeting
Speaker 4: with Paul Marshall. I'm like, yeah, Paul is my dad's lafer.
Speaker 4: So you know, Paul says, I could get you this
Speaker 4: tremendous deal with BMG. I'm like, I'm good. I don't
Speaker 4: want it right. So by the time I get to
Speaker 4: Richardsson's apartment, who is my partner or a lot of
Speaker 4: my childhood best friend, my Dad's called and he goes,
Speaker 4: I need you to come to the house. I go,
Speaker 4: I'm in the city. It's a forty five minute train ride, Like,
Speaker 4: who knows what time to train for the country is.
Speaker 4: I don't give a fuck, come to the house now.
Speaker 4: And he was with you know, some of his people,
Speaker 4: and you know, he was ready to beat the shit
Speaker 4: out of me. He goes, don't you ever turn down
Speaker 4: a fucking record deal? He goes, you know the difference
Speaker 4: between a record deal or a label deal and what
Speaker 4: you're doing now. I'm like, no, he goes, what you're
Speaker 4: doing now, you're only as good as your last record
Speaker 4: or your last contract. With owning a record company, you
Speaker 4: have true assets, so even when you're not doing something,
Speaker 4: it could be making money. And it was probably the
Speaker 4: first time that we ever agreed, and like it clicked
Speaker 4: into my fucking head. I was like, you know what,
Speaker 4: you're right, And I said, you know what, I'm gonna
Speaker 4: call Paul in the morning and I'll go see He
Speaker 4: didn't believe me. Knowing how fucking crazy I am. So
Speaker 4: he called Paul. He says, we'll see you at two o'clock,
Speaker 4: and you know, and that's how Loud pretty much started.
Speaker 3: I was just curious your father, since you guys always
Speaker 3: wondering how he thought it about hip hop.
Speaker 4: My dad put us first hip hop record. I mean,
Speaker 4: but my dad never consider himself. He never considered himself
Speaker 4: an an ar guy. He just considered himself a promotion guy.
Speaker 4: And you know, and he just truly loved people. And
Speaker 4: he didn't see he didn't see color, he didn't see anything.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: It's like our house was like United.
Speaker 5: Nations, right, So you guys, it was a nice evolution.
Speaker 5: That's what I kind of mean for your family, Like
Speaker 5: you were the perfect kind of evolution.
Speaker 4: I mean, Sharpton lives in our house.
Speaker 2: The first act you signed was Twist, correct. Yeah, So
Speaker 2: it's always curious to see flagship artists on these big labels,
Speaker 2: Like you know, I'm just finding out that Rico Suave
Speaker 2: was the first act on the interscope. What was that
Speaker 2: about Twister? And actually, for me, I think the first
Speaker 2: thing I heard about Twista was like a beef with
Speaker 2: treats from naughty by nature, like that's what was it
Speaker 2: about Twister that attracted you to him? And said I
Speaker 2: can sell this or was it just like it's dope
Speaker 2: and let me put it out.
Speaker 4: So the record was called Mister Tongue Twist. And my
Speaker 4: staff was losing their mind and they were comparing I
Speaker 4: forget who the the guy was a poor righteous.
Speaker 2: Teachers right where I was intelligent, right, and they.
Speaker 4: Were comparing him to and they were comparing him to
Speaker 4: that and just it was my first act that I
Speaker 4: ever really, you know, I was like, all right, this
Speaker 4: could be something that special. So and that was the
Speaker 4: first act that I brought to BMG. And we found
Speaker 4: it through my We found it through my street team
Speaker 4: and was a guy named of Jack Sterling. He was
Speaker 4: out of Chicago street rep and he sent it to
Speaker 4: a guy name of Faye Dubinet who was doing my
Speaker 4: college radio and Mick show. We were stigned to call
Speaker 4: Mix Show and he was managed by DJ in Chicago
Speaker 4: and GCI by the name of Eric de Witz. I
Speaker 4: flew him out. We did a deal and and I
Speaker 4: had something to show BMG.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you, why did you choose BMG, because
Speaker 2: you know, for me at least. I never considered r
Speaker 2: c A as a front runner in urban music, like
Speaker 2: the way that Columbia was, or I'm a maybe warner
Speaker 2: with with Tommy Boy. But was it the fact that
Speaker 2: they had new track record whatsoever and they offered you space.
Speaker 2: I didn't.
Speaker 4: I didn't even look at that. I just had so
Speaker 4: much confidence to myself. You know, when I first was going,
Speaker 4: there was a guy named of Lou Mallam who had
Speaker 4: Zoo Entertainment that b b MD financed. It was supposed
Speaker 4: to be a new company. Twist was the only thing
Speaker 4: that really came out of Zoo, and they shut Zoo down.
Speaker 4: So then a guy named Ron Urban, who was a
Speaker 4: finance guy who was the CFO and CEO of r
Speaker 4: c A. He was in Atlanta visiting this attorney, Joel Katz,
Speaker 4: and it was Jack the Rapper, and we came in
Speaker 4: and I just took a liking to Rot and he says,
Speaker 4: you know, I say it now, He goes, you give
Speaker 4: me an inch and I'll give you whatever you need.
Speaker 4: So and it was like, how much heavy lifting are
Speaker 4: you going to need from us? I'm like, I'm not
Speaker 4: going to ged you guys to do a fucking thing.
Speaker 4: You know, we already we were already staffed up through
Speaker 4: the marketing company, you know, and then we got lucky.
Speaker 4: There was somebody who worked at our RCA. He became
Speaker 4: my brother pretty much a partner. I me't even Mojo
Speaker 4: and you can see it. And Mojo ended up after
Speaker 4: a year year and a half at our say, you know,
Speaker 4: he's been with me ever since.
Speaker 5: I'm curious what your expectations were or I guess, yeah,
Speaker 5: what you told them to expect from this record.
Speaker 4: I didn't want a penny for the What they had
Speaker 4: to do is just give me money to make the album.
Speaker 4: And I think the album budget was fifty thousand dollars. Okay,
Speaker 4: I'll handle all the marketing money, and then once I
Speaker 4: get into one hundred thousand, you got to give me
Speaker 4: a few hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: At the time, were you trying to figure out how
Speaker 2: to position yourself next to a deaf jam, a Tommy
Speaker 2: boy a Jive or were you just going to be
Speaker 2: so underground you were the abyss.
Speaker 4: I you know, once you really get to know me,
Speaker 4: you know, you're running a race. You can't worry what
Speaker 4: the next person's doing, Like if you if you look over.
Speaker 4: You showed me You've got a trip. Eventually, so Russell
Speaker 4: had that jam, jive had jibe.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: You know Maran Clyde, I mean Clyde Club had to
Speaker 4: be the fast guy in the records. I mean he
Speaker 4: took everybody you know when he when he sold. But
Speaker 4: I never I never looked at that way because and
Speaker 4: I looked at them as allies because they were still
Speaker 4: paying me to rook their records.
Speaker 2: And it's never a conflict of interest at all.
Speaker 4: I had to you know, no, I mean, if you
Speaker 4: know me, it's like I'm going to be a straight shooter,
Speaker 4: Like if you're going to pay me, I'm going to
Speaker 4: do the job. And if I can't do your job,
Speaker 4: I'm not going to take your money.
Speaker 5: And here's the question that you work in their records too,
Speaker 5: do you have an ear now to say to people
Speaker 5: to other labels, like, I know I can work this
Speaker 5: on college and mix, but commercial.
Speaker 3: This is a more college mixed, you know, Like how
Speaker 3: does that work?
Speaker 4: So by this time, pretty much we were on retaining
Speaker 4: with every major. I mean I was making more money
Speaker 4: with the marketing company than I.
Speaker 3: Was making with the label, right, So they listening to
Speaker 3: you so like we would be.
Speaker 4: Part of their staff, you know, and then finally they're saying,
Speaker 4: why are we paying you know them so much money.
Speaker 4: Some of the retainers you know, got dropped, and people
Speaker 4: started putting the departments in place, but they were still
Speaker 4: everybody pretty much all came under my umbrella.
Speaker 2: Mm hm.
Speaker 4: So I some you know, so like Fade, who was
Speaker 4: one of my first employees. He went over to Scope,
Speaker 4: and he actually came with the loud name. So when
Speaker 4: Interscope cut the retainer with Medade would still put me
Speaker 4: on certain records, you know. So I just had everybody
Speaker 4: in place.
Speaker 2: All right, I'm dying to ask you to get in
Speaker 2: the Wu Tang territory, but I can't forget what was
Speaker 2: it about. And you know, I think it's also notable
Speaker 2: to point out that, you know, in the early nineties,
Speaker 2: suddenly the regionalism of hip hop is expanding more. You know.
Speaker 2: Of course, we saw like the Ghetto Boys and rap
Speaker 2: a lot in Houston happened like really go mainstream in
Speaker 2: the nineties, and then suddenly like we're realizing that, oh,
Speaker 2: California has good MC's and this territory in Atlanta, and
Speaker 2: you know, that sort of thing for you though, with
Speaker 2: the signing of the Alcoholics and mad Cap, especially mad Cap,
Speaker 2: I was one of those people that you know, I
Speaker 2: saw like a mad Cap show, and you know, the
Speaker 2: mad Cap was like, just listen to that tape. And
Speaker 2: I listened to that tape so much like they were
Speaker 2: like a mixture of They were kind of the idea
Speaker 2: of what I thought, because even in ninety two ninety three,
Speaker 2: I didn't know what the roots were gonna be.
Speaker 4: So the reason why you like mad Cap Bunch is
Speaker 4: because of Joe the trumpet play right and he was
Speaker 4: live right.
Speaker 2: But also I mean, you know, like there were live
Speaker 2: elements on that record. Yep. And I you know, again,
Speaker 2: we were just starting our first record, and we weren't
Speaker 2: in full agreeance on whether or not what we were
Speaker 2: in concert should also be the same thing that we're
Speaker 2: on in the studio. Actually I was. I was against it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, we don't want to be a band in
Speaker 2: the studio, like let's be a regular rap group. But
Speaker 2: I heard the Cap record and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: all right, between that and what the Forest Side was doing,
Speaker 2: then I was like, Okay, I see an entry there,
Speaker 2: but for me or you at least like, why were
Speaker 2: they just too early for their time?
Speaker 4: I think they were a little bit too early for
Speaker 4: their time. And then you know, they had two records
Speaker 4: that I thought could have been the first single, the
Speaker 4: kit Kable, produced by Broadway, and then right second record,
Speaker 4: Proof in the Pudding, which was you know, a lot
Speaker 4: of live instruments. I think, of course, you know, the
Speaker 4: only one who really had it. And they were from Pasadena.
Speaker 4: They weren't from South Central. So even though Pasadena was
Speaker 4: a huge, I mean a tough fucking area, it still
Speaker 4: wasn't South Central and South Center was already branded right,
Speaker 4: so easy I had a lock and all that, so,
Speaker 4: you know, And and it wasn't gangster music, right, I mean,
Speaker 4: it was more hippie music. And you know, and I
Speaker 4: tell this to Broadway. I haven't spoken to him in
Speaker 4: a while, but I tell the Broadway all the time,
Speaker 4: but there was a hook in the whole Kule directly
Speaker 4: would have been a fucking monster.
Speaker 2: You're right, you know.
Speaker 4: But the funny the great thing now is Koch, who
Speaker 4: was in the group, you know, was a huge director,
Speaker 4: now really yeah, huge movie director, like does these amazing
Speaker 4: urban films, you know, and he you know, and he
Speaker 4: and he finances him hisself and he just you know,
Speaker 4: he runs the board. I mean, it's it's fucking amazing
Speaker 4: what he's doing.
Speaker 2: Well, then let me ask you about the alcoholics, because
Speaker 2: you know, that was also an era of which we're
Speaker 2: you know, we had our idea of what LA was,
Speaker 2: and then groups like the far Side, the alcoholics, groups
Speaker 2: like Souls and Mischief, you know up in the Bay
Speaker 2: Area and the whole Hiro crew, like we didn't know.
Speaker 2: It was like an anomaly. Like when we first heard
Speaker 2: the alcoholics, were like, wait, they're from California, like this,
Speaker 2: how did how did you come across there?
Speaker 4: So Fade went to see he went to the studio
Speaker 4: to see Mecca and East Swift was was there, and
Speaker 4: ship Fade just shows up in my house like at
Speaker 4: eleven o'clock at night, like pounding on the fucking dog.
Speaker 4: He's like, I just found, you know, the best thing
Speaker 4: you know since white bread, you know, and it was
Speaker 4: just like you got to come to the studio now,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, I'm not going. I'm not going to
Speaker 4: the studio. I didn't believe it. To me, I didn't
Speaker 4: really believe in the studio because I mean, I needed
Speaker 4: only bet it happened in studios, so I was like, no, like, untrue,
Speaker 4: they in the office in the morning. Oh whatever, And
Speaker 4: just it was a Friday. It was a Thursday night
Speaker 4: when he came pounding on the door and they came
Speaker 4: up the original demo. To me, I thought they were
Speaker 4: the next CPMD.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Nothing, I I can't even like, I wish I
Speaker 2: could just bottle up. Like when you're living in it,
Speaker 2: you just take for granted that this sort of brilliance
Speaker 2: is just going to be the norm, so you know,
Speaker 2: you just you don't take a time out to really
Speaker 2: appreciate it. But yeah, nothing will ever be the feeling
Speaker 2: of you know, I come from Philly, in which you know,
Speaker 2: cosmic keev aj Shine just deph like basically our version
Speaker 2: of stretching Barbido. At Drexel University would play that whole
Speaker 2: album insanely like just on radio, and.
Speaker 4: The West Coast loved them. But again, it wasn't NWA,
Speaker 4: it wasn't Dre. Stupid's just coming right, so they hadn't
Speaker 4: met I mean, Ralph did a lot of their videos.
Speaker 2: M wait a minute, Okay, this is this is a
Speaker 2: crazy off kilter question, but only because I'm I'm okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm working on soul Train right now to get the
Speaker 2: Alcoholics mainstream Soul Train play, and Don's like notorious for
Speaker 2: not like literally like I think there's I've counted three
Speaker 2: dance lines to make Room, which is just unheard of
Speaker 2: for like a real rap song that potent to get
Speaker 2: like almost that level of love. I was like when
Speaker 2: when the Alcoholics were like regularly played on Soul Train,
Speaker 2: which a group of that level should have just been
Speaker 2: underground status and maybe some MTV love and that sort
Speaker 2: of thing. But no, Doctor Newi's Sarah, Really, how did
Speaker 2: you guys pull this off?
Speaker 4: We knew the booker and Don truly loved the record. Huh.
Speaker 2: It's just unheard of? Is unheard of? All right? Right,
Speaker 2: I gotta get to it.
Speaker 4: So make Room wasn't even though they were from the
Speaker 4: West Coast. It was a non threatening record. They didn't
Speaker 4: really curse on the record.
Speaker 2: I know, like so so they were humorous, they were funny,
Speaker 2: so and was awesome.
Speaker 5: That's what like, can I can I just ask real
Speaker 5: quick Steve at this point, are you developing what is
Speaker 5: the loud philosophy?
Speaker 3: Like because you like you said you ain't deaf, jam
Speaker 3: you ain't John. We all know this. We know we
Speaker 3: went to loud for certain things, but like in your mind,
Speaker 3: what is it?
Speaker 4: So I didn't really have an a in our staff yet.
Speaker 4: So to me, that cap was self contained. Alcoholics are
Speaker 4: self contained, and we had we did okay with them.
Speaker 4: Twister wasn't self contained. And you know, even though he
Speaker 4: broke you know, we did marketing wise, we did an
Speaker 4: amazing job. We had we flew in the guy from
Speaker 4: the Guinness broke the world records from London and we
Speaker 4: had we had him on MTV and behind him he was,
Speaker 4: you know, voted the fastest rapper in the world. But really,
Speaker 4: you know, it wasn't an amazing album. So I needed
Speaker 4: people who could really be self contained.
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, Right, that's the common that's the commonality.
Speaker 4: And then from that Wu Tang self contained. Okay, my
Speaker 4: deep self.
Speaker 2: Okay, Now let me ask you we're here, knowing what
Speaker 2: you know now, knowing what you know now, of the
Speaker 2: past thirty years of Wu Tang ology, would you have
Speaker 2: struck a different deal with the Riza You still would
Speaker 2: have just given them their running papers.
Speaker 4: I'm going to tell you what why thirty years me
Speaker 4: and is still talk two or three times a week.
Speaker 4: It matters, right, I will never fight over money. So
Speaker 4: by me I was in survival mode. I needed that platque.
Speaker 4: I needed to go down right. So when right I
Speaker 4: met them on March third, nineteen ninety three, a day
Speaker 4: after my thirty first birthday, I was with East Swift.
Speaker 4: I was with East Spliff from the Alcoholics. We're in
Speaker 4: New York. I'm in a guest office in New York
Speaker 4: and the receptionist comes. You know, in those days, there's
Speaker 4: no security, right, you know, we just pop up at
Speaker 4: a record like jam okay, right right, and they said,
Speaker 4: a Prince Racken is here. I've been trying to chase
Speaker 4: him down since the beginning of the year. And he
Speaker 4: shows up and it's me. He's sucking. He goes, I
Speaker 4: have the guys downstairs.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 4: I don't know if there are three guys, nine guys,
Speaker 4: you know, whatever it is. But I'm in your office
Speaker 4: as big as the fucking square on my zoom right
Speaker 4: a second, right, and he Swift is behind me and
Speaker 4: they perform protect You and that live to the record.
Speaker 4: Somebody comes barging into the room and says, that's that ship.
Speaker 4: I don't know if he was an animals set me
Speaker 4: up right and and he left. I never saw the
Speaker 4: guy again, but the energy in that fucking room was ridiculous.
Speaker 4: And Riza said, this is the only way we're going
Speaker 4: to do the deal. And I was like, you know what,
Speaker 4: I was managing New Addition. Ralph was always threatening to leave,
Speaker 4: and the own and the only one where the group
Speaker 4: to me was always bigger than the BBD solo except
Speaker 4: Michael Jackson. But even when Michael Jackson tour, when it
Speaker 4: came time to do a Jackson Tour or the Jackson
Speaker 4: BIB or whatever they would call that the end, they
Speaker 4: still outed Michael's tour.
Speaker 2: Wait a damn now, she said that I wanted to ask.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask because even at the Essence Festival
Speaker 2: this year, I was like, this might be the rare
Speaker 2: case in which Tito is more successful than Michael. How
Speaker 2: did that? How did that affect Ralph at least during
Speaker 2: that time? You know, I know that I don't know
Speaker 2: when you left New Addition, but you know you were
Speaker 2: there for heartbreaking which when when they came to you
Speaker 2: with the idea of like, hey, we're going to do
Speaker 2: our side project with Poison, Were you guys like whatever,
Speaker 2: I know, No, I was already you're out, Okay, I
Speaker 2: got but I was.
Speaker 4: There when Mike caubbed me and said, we want to
Speaker 4: put Johnny in the group. So you know, got it
Speaker 4: wrapped up the leads. We have a lead singer.
Speaker 2: Okay. So it was like that.
Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, like I just
Speaker 4: always believed the group will still always be bigger than
Speaker 4: the whole. And the truth of the matter is he
Speaker 4: let me still have matching rights.
Speaker 2: But I just unprecedented. You heard method Man's voice, it
Speaker 2: was like, I'll let you go.
Speaker 3: So wait.
Speaker 5: So then Steve, this was portrayed correctly and the saga
Speaker 5: of the wolf then right, because they did this whole
Speaker 5: process on this show, on the Hulu show you yeah, Okay.
Speaker 4: Albums us cheap, not a lot sixty right, So how
Speaker 4: many albums you think I sold between Wu Tang Forever
Speaker 4: and thirty six years?
Speaker 3: I get it, and Ray, I get it, and you're
Speaker 3: not the bad guy. And you're not the bad guy,
Speaker 3: like I just remember in the.
Speaker 4: Show, and I still had the best soul.
Speaker 2: I know, but all right, but look but look, but
Speaker 2: again again, I'm just saying that this is lightning in
Speaker 2: a bottle. You literally have super friends. And yes, I
Speaker 2: agree that when when the smoke is cleared, the Cuban
Speaker 2: Links is probably I almost feel like I yes, I
Speaker 2: know that we can't say anything bad about Into the
Speaker 2: Wu Tang, but for me, like Cuba Links is the
Speaker 2: pinnacle Wu Tang project.
Speaker 4: Oh, everybody agrees that should have been this second album.
Speaker 2: Part of me wasn't a little bit greedy, like, ah,
Speaker 2: let me take Dirty or at least get method Man.
Speaker 4: First of all, Dirty was already signed. But but but
Speaker 4: but this is this is where my head's at and
Speaker 4: this is my thing. I still made money, right because
Speaker 4: when Dirty was signed to Electra, I still had the
Speaker 4: marketing company. Electra paid me triple what I normally got get,
Speaker 4: then paid me triple do what I normally got, right,
Speaker 4: So I was good And like I said, I'm not
Speaker 4: going to fight over money and I'm not greedy, right,
Speaker 4: So I did okay, and I feel I won and
Speaker 4: it made loud what it was, and it gave me
Speaker 4: the reputation that the artist came first. You forget. I
Speaker 4: also got arrested fighting for them.
Speaker 2: WHOA what happened?
Speaker 3: Wait, I'm remember I remember discounts some millions.
Speaker 4: So renegotiating raised first album, Cuban Links and Mutang's second
Speaker 4: deal and second album. They came in to renegotiate and
Speaker 4: I'm supposed to be an RCAA side. But before that
Speaker 4: even happened me, his lawyers and my attorney, they came in.
Speaker 4: We came in and we're going to we're going to
Speaker 4: do this together. I haven't gotten paid yet. I'm making
Speaker 4: my money through the market company, right, you know. We
Speaker 4: we're like a million and a half records. So now
Speaker 4: and the business affairs she was a woman is holding
Speaker 4: still for twenty thousand dollars, and I'm like, and bring
Speaker 4: the pain is blowing the fuck up. And I'm like,
Speaker 4: just give him the twenty thousand dollars and I'll write
Speaker 4: a fucking check. Like I'll figure a way to get
Speaker 4: him to twenty thousand dollars. I never hit a woman
Speaker 4: in my life to this day, you know. All right,
Speaker 4: But she says, go fuck yourself, Steve Kin one in
Speaker 4: the thirty six floor conferencey, I take this chair and
Speaker 4: I'm ready to throw the chair through that window. That's
Speaker 4: going to break the window and it's going to land
Speaker 4: on somebody on Broadway. I catched the chair. I just
Speaker 4: lookate my thumb. I turn around and I throw it
Speaker 4: through the glass door in the lobby and they called
Speaker 4: the cops. Cops came the rest of me. It was
Speaker 4: a Friday. I just found out I was having my
Speaker 4: first child three days before that, and damn, that's it
Speaker 4: was intense, right, I didn't there was no email, so
Speaker 4: this was literally I sent them a voicemail. I sent
Speaker 4: them a call. I was in Florida for Thanksgiving and
Speaker 4: met the man. Just did one hundred and twenty thousand
Speaker 4: first week. No, you know, like those numbers were crazy,
Speaker 4: as like you just fucked yourself, like and Reson wouldn't
Speaker 4: sign the deal yet until you know, and I went
Speaker 4: off and it just created a war between me and BMG.
Speaker 4: But the thing was, Rizzi says, don't worry, we're going
Speaker 4: to come back in in February and we're gonna take
Speaker 4: up at every fuckpenny they had. And they ended up
Speaker 4: getting a new CEO and a new president, and we
Speaker 4: came in and we put him in a fucking headlock.
Speaker 4: It's just that we took him for every fucking penny
Speaker 4: they had.
Speaker 6: What up Quols Famous is Unpaid Bill, What Paul Is?
Speaker 2: Part one?
Speaker 4: Right Here for Now is.
Speaker 6: This episode covers a lot of ground. Come back next
Speaker 6: week a part two where Steve Rifton talks about just
Speaker 6: how much you wanted to sign Acon, Tommy put hands
Speaker 6: on a certain film mogul and It's new venture. We
Speaker 6: had fun recording this episode and I hope you're into
Speaker 6: it too.
Speaker 1: What's Up Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
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