WEBVTT - Steve Rifkind Part 1

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<v Speaker 1>What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Ladies and Gentlemen. Another QLs is upon us. As I've

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<v Speaker 2>always stated in previous shows, it is fun talking to

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<v Speaker 2>the artists, but oftentimes I find it more fun getting

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<v Speaker 2>the four one one the information from a different perspective,

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<v Speaker 2>and oftentimes, you know, promotion people and our people CEOs

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<v Speaker 2>kind of have a different perspective. And I guess, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe I'm secretly a suit more than I am an artist,

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<v Speaker 2>So I think I enjoy those episodes better. But even

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<v Speaker 2>with the response we get from the podcast, it's often

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<v Speaker 2>when we talk to label CEOs that I get the

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<v Speaker 2>most feedback. So hopefully, if you're like me, this episode

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<v Speaker 2>should be one for the record books and a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of you hip hop junkies out there, you're in retreat

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<v Speaker 2>when you hear Kats my age speak of okay now

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<v Speaker 2>the word of course of the year's renaissance. And you

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<v Speaker 2>know this isn't a Queen Bee reference, but when we're

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<v Speaker 2>speaking of the renaissance era of hip hop, we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about a specific time period in which I will say

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<v Speaker 2>the Renaissance era of hip hop versus the classic era

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<v Speaker 2>of hip hop is sort of when the music palette,

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<v Speaker 2>as far as sampling is concerned, extended a further reach

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<v Speaker 2>past the first layer of sampling, you know, like the

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<v Speaker 2>first round was like James Brown, George Clinton, and the

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<v Speaker 2>what I call the Wikipedia of crate digging known as

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<v Speaker 2>Ultimate Beats and Breaks compilation, shout out to break Bloo,

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<v Speaker 2>good friend of the show. But all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, all those jazz records and all those boring

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<v Speaker 2>albums in your uncle aunt's record collections started to get

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<v Speaker 2>utilized in this particular era of hip hop, starting with

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<v Speaker 2>kind of in the early nine and extending in the

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<v Speaker 2>decade and oftentimes when we talk about the Renaissance period,

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<v Speaker 2>usually Illmatic is kind of synonymous with that era. However,

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<v Speaker 2>and yes, I will say Illmatic is the pinnacle of

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<v Speaker 2>that particular sound. But from a creative standpoint that the

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<v Speaker 2>label owned by our guest today was probably one of

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<v Speaker 2>the most forward thinking, consistent, envelope pushing hip hop labels

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<v Speaker 2>that pretty much led the charge culturally for the directions

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<v Speaker 2>of what credible hip hop sounded like in a way

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of like def jam was established in the eighties,

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<v Speaker 2>I can go I have to write some of the

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<v Speaker 2>names down Twist a mad Cap. I could spend an

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<v Speaker 2>hour mad Cap alone because I thought, oh, that's a

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<v Speaker 2>lane for the roots, the alcoholics of course, the Wu

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<v Speaker 2>Tang clan, whoever they are, Selah Duellas Mob Deep, Big

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<v Speaker 2>Pun exhibit of my all time favorites. And when we

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<v Speaker 2>ever released a project Pat song, I don't know, Project Pat, Delinquent, Habits,

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<v Speaker 2>Dead Press, Gangsta Boo, Little Flip, the Executioners, even with

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<v Speaker 2>R and B, with Divina LV and Yuvette, Michelle Hey, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>Adriana Evans, even like well known vets like Pete Rock,

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<v Speaker 2>beat Nuts, MP three six, Mafia, Uncle, Luke, fump Aster,

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<v Speaker 2>Flex Read Alert. All these, all these greats came to

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<v Speaker 2>uh basically the House of Loud, as I say, but

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<v Speaker 2>it would be who me had also mentioned that our

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<v Speaker 2>guests was very crucial also in the art of what

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<v Speaker 2>we call street promotion, which I guess we take it

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<v Speaker 2>for granted now seeing snipes on the street and seeing

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<v Speaker 2>raps on the vans and seeing stickers everywhere. But a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of that revolution was started in the early nineties

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<v Speaker 2>and our guests had a very extream impact in developing that.

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<v Speaker 2>And not to mention I have to say that it'll

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<v Speaker 2>be exciting to talk to kind of a lineage person

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of the fact that you know his very father,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the great Jules Rifkin, who owns Spring Records,

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<v Speaker 2>which you know, home to Joe Simon and Millie Jackson

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<v Speaker 2>and Fat Back. You know, his father released the very

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<v Speaker 2>first hip hop single ever, which of course is King

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<v Speaker 2>Tim the Third by Fat Back. You know that if

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<v Speaker 2>the intro is fifteen minutes long, I pray the show

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<v Speaker 2>is nine hours long. We Steve Rifkin. I used to say,

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<v Speaker 2>if you guys can see Steve Rifkin's face right now, but.

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<v Speaker 3>He is like, do we need to talk?

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<v Speaker 2>This is the kind of show in which we're just

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<v Speaker 2>finding out that we're on YouTube, or at least we

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<v Speaker 2>haven't really pumped from the show facked up, so we

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<v Speaker 2>should I now say that, ladies and gentlemen, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if you know this, but you know, since what episode?

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<v Speaker 2>What was our first? Tevin camb what was our first?

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<v Speaker 3>It wasn't. No, we go further back than that. Jake,

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<v Speaker 3>what was the first?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh jeez, what was it? Maybe Monica Lynch, Jesus Christ. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, if you go on YouTube, you can actually

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<v Speaker 2>watch these episodes, and I pray that you don't because

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<v Speaker 2>we're mot leap Liia's glam. But the rest of us

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<v Speaker 2>out of mister Rifkin. How are you?

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<v Speaker 4>I'm great? How are you guys?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm great, I'm excited.

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<v Speaker 4>I gotta tell you a funny story. Wendy Golds team signed.

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<v Speaker 4>I know it.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, don't even I'm gonna ask you about the story.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't even sorry, big go big home, all.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, story Storry. I was like, wait, should I ask

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<v Speaker 2>Hi about the Windy Gold see story?

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<v Speaker 4>So when he signed you, I mean you guys, and

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<v Speaker 4>she signed another artist. You know who that artist was, right, Jiz.

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<v Speaker 4>So she calls me, besides that, I had the Stephen

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<v Speaker 4>Rifkin Company, which had all the Street team and the

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<v Speaker 4>whole street marketing stuff. So she goes, hey, Geffen is

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<v Speaker 4>having a conference. Will you come and speak? And I'm

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<v Speaker 4>like about what she goes about, you know the marketing.

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<v Speaker 4>You know it's really a rock and roll label, and

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<v Speaker 4>you know we just signed Jizz and we just signed

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<v Speaker 4>Actually I think she said she just signed you guys

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<v Speaker 4>that day.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah she did.

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<v Speaker 4>And I'm like, but I needed to like drive a

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<v Speaker 4>Peter Vegas I knew Wenday, but I really didn't know

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<v Speaker 4>that well. I'm like, do I really want to be

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<v Speaker 4>in a car with her for five hours?

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<v Speaker 2>You know?

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<v Speaker 4>But the amazing thing was I didn't even want to

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<v Speaker 4>hear Just's album. All I heard you guys had like

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<v Speaker 4>a three or four song demo, right, And I kept

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<v Speaker 4>it on repeat for five fucking hours. And then so

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<v Speaker 4>we get there. My uncle owns at a restaurant. We

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<v Speaker 4>have dinner at the restaurant, I go back to my

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<v Speaker 4>room and I'm just a man. I was like, this

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<v Speaker 4>is some groundbreak and shit, and I must have lost

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<v Speaker 4>those days. I must have lost like fifteen hundred dollars.

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<v Speaker 4>It was like fifty thousand dollars, you know. I was

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<v Speaker 4>just starting out less than five o'clock in the morning,

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<v Speaker 4>and I went to the craft table and Just I

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<v Speaker 4>don't remember the name of the songs, but it motivated me.

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<v Speaker 4>And I ended up winning five thousand dollars and I

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<v Speaker 4>thought I won a million dollars all because of the roots.

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<v Speaker 4>So thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, all right, Steve Rifkin, Wait, I see I

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<v Speaker 2>was going to ask you, all right, so.

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<v Speaker 3>You would have signed them? Then, I'm sorry. I'm just

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<v Speaker 3>going to ask the FANSI no.

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<v Speaker 4>No, no signed them. I didn't had the opportunity to sign.

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<v Speaker 3>You had the opportunity, right because they were already signed.

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<v Speaker 2>I will say that Loud was one of the three

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<v Speaker 2>labels that we didn't go to only because literally, I

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<v Speaker 2>mean I've said the story before. You know, the Roots

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<v Speaker 2>were going to sign to Mercury, to PolyGram, and we

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<v Speaker 2>were like super excited. Oh man, Black Sheep's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be our label mates Da Da Da Da Da. And

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<v Speaker 2>they gave us the contract and three of the names

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<v Speaker 2>were misspelled, so the kind was no all and boy

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<v Speaker 2>because three names were misspelled, and they were like, send

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<v Speaker 2>a new contract with our correct name spelled. And in

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<v Speaker 2>that seventy two hour period, Wendy Goldstein literally came in,

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<v Speaker 2>swooped down and you know, like we did the audition

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<v Speaker 2>for Geffen because we wanted a free dinner. You remember

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<v Speaker 2>book binders on yes and real nice. Right by that point,

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<v Speaker 2>we you know, we were like impressed with like, wow,

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<v Speaker 2>they have orange juice and refrigerator. Like that's how impressed

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<v Speaker 2>we were with That's the first thing. Like we went

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<v Speaker 2>to Wendy Goldsea's office and guess what she had a mirror.

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<v Speaker 2>She had orange juice in the refrigerator all you can drink,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're like what But literally we were like, all right,

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<v Speaker 2>we're gonna do it for the free lobster and steak

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<v Speaker 2>and then we'll sign to PolyGram. And just at the table,

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<v Speaker 2>we literally were like, all right, let's call her bluff

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<v Speaker 2>and just be like, all right, we need two cars,

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<v Speaker 2>and we need like three apartments, and we want a

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<v Speaker 2>full studio da da da da and a partridge in

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<v Speaker 2>a pear tree. And she fucked around and called our

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<v Speaker 2>bluffins like okay.

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<v Speaker 3>And death and money.

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<v Speaker 2>Suddenly no other label mattered anymore, because like it was like, shit,

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<v Speaker 2>she's given us everything we want.

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<v Speaker 4>So who Mercury was going to sign you?

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<v Speaker 2>Ken Yata bell A wow Yo. The anger that he

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<v Speaker 2>had for I always wanted to know what happened to

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<v Speaker 2>his assistant that messed up that contract, Like he was

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<v Speaker 2>near I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, like near suicidal,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, I've talked to Ed Eckstein since that moment.

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<v Speaker 2>And let's just say the building was not happy with

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<v Speaker 2>losing the roots on a technicality.

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<v Speaker 4>But so my cousin was head of sales and this

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<v Speaker 4>is when they had a sales department and they were

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<v Speaker 4>right stars. He was head of sales for Mercury, and

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<v Speaker 4>I remember him. I didn't know that he was. I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>I didn't know that you were supposed to sign with them.

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<v Speaker 4>So right, he's my older cousin, and I really looked

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<v Speaker 4>up to him. So I was telling him that, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>I how to do this. I had to speak in

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<v Speaker 4>Vegas to this rock and roll craft, which, like I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>I was definitely talking a different language, right, And and

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<v Speaker 4>he goes, we were supposed to sign them. He didn't know,

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<v Speaker 4>he didn't know exactly what happened, but he knew about

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<v Speaker 4>you guys. I said, I said, man, that you guys

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<v Speaker 4>fucked up.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh they were angry. They were angry. I want to

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<v Speaker 2>skip since we're talking this and this is this is

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<v Speaker 2>the thing that I wanted to ask you because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I know that. I mean, basically, the first album and

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<v Speaker 2>a half was made extremely like just just unorthodox. We

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<v Speaker 2>We did not have a staff whatsoever at Geffen. All

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<v Speaker 2>we had was Wendy Goldstein and like seven credit cards,

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<v Speaker 2>and so you know, we established trust with them where

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<v Speaker 2>they were like here here the credit cards don't you know,

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<v Speaker 2>start traveling to Ruber or whatever, like be responsible. We

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<v Speaker 2>were super responsible. But essentially we were calling out for

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<v Speaker 2>favors from almost every label. You include it, like you

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<v Speaker 2>know Steve Riff Gabill handle street promotions and that I

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<v Speaker 2>at Deaf Jam, like Jessica and Derek will handle that

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<v Speaker 2>at Deaf Jam. Like we were literally moonlighting every label

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<v Speaker 2>for do you Want More?

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<v Speaker 3>And the thing was, I didn't even know you could

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<v Speaker 3>do that.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't you know. It was just different back then.

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<v Speaker 2>But here here's the question I have. So can you

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<v Speaker 2>and I want you to explain to me, because this

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<v Speaker 2>is what I never got explained to me. At least

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<v Speaker 2>the system, Like you remember the periodical. I think that

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<v Speaker 2>it was called Hits. It is still a thing. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So I knew for us there was there was a

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<v Speaker 2>system of you break in college first, and then after

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<v Speaker 2>the college then you break to mainstream radio. And the

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<v Speaker 2>Roots released their first single the same At least, we

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<v Speaker 2>were under the impression that we released the same time

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<v Speaker 2>that Biggie released Juicy. Now, this is what I think happened.

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<v Speaker 2>What I believed happened was that the buzz for Juicy

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<v Speaker 2>was so big that they leaked it a week early,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe like two days early. So the initial numbers of

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<v Speaker 2>our first single, which I think was like distortion is

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<v Speaker 2>static versus Juicy, was like, Oh, we're gonna crush Biggie.

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<v Speaker 2>But what I think happened was we had a full week,

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<v Speaker 2>seven days of ads on whereas maybe like they decided

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<v Speaker 2>to just you know, leak Juicy a day early, so

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<v Speaker 2>it was like a week of the roots versus one

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<v Speaker 2>day of Biggie, and we were just under the impression

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<v Speaker 2>of like, oh shit, man, we're gonna be kings of

0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.400
<v Speaker 2>the world. Like we were like that whole week. It

0:12:56.520 --> 0:13:00.800
<v Speaker 2>was like whatever the equivalent of fight and cigars one

0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.520
<v Speaker 2>hundred dollars bills and champagne everywhere, only for the next

0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.640
<v Speaker 2>week to come and suddenly, like Biggi's numbers were like

0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.440
<v Speaker 2>in the three digits and we were like at thirty eight,

0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:16.800
<v Speaker 2>like literally crush. Can you explain the system of how

0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.760
<v Speaker 2>at least back then? And I'm not going to say

0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:22.680
<v Speaker 2>start with protect your neck, because that's just a whole

0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:26.440
<v Speaker 2>nother animal, but say, if you're doing rainy days like

0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.400
<v Speaker 2>a single, that doesn't matter, how do you break that

0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:34.840
<v Speaker 2>first to explode and what's the importance of college numbers?

0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.560
<v Speaker 4>So for me, I made my living off of college.

0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.320
<v Speaker 4>So let's go just go back to you for a second. Okay,

0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:44.400
<v Speaker 4>Wendy was the only one who understood what I was

0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:48.240
<v Speaker 4>working those records. This. I was doing the whole street team, right,

0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.839
<v Speaker 4>I know, if you guys were so alternative in the

0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:56.439
<v Speaker 4>hip hop market, I said, just don't rush this, let

0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:58.400
<v Speaker 4>this just marinate and just have the guy that live

0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.520
<v Speaker 4>on the road, don't worry about you know, don't worry

0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.200
<v Speaker 4>about anything hapened to just go visitologists and maybe even

0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:05.720
<v Speaker 4>some mix shows. And that's it. I mean I never

0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.280
<v Speaker 4>really even saw you guys. I didn't even see a

0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.320
<v Speaker 4>video yet, but just sonically what I heard, I was like,

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.800
<v Speaker 4>remember like digg Old Planets, Yeah right, I mean it

0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.760
<v Speaker 4>was that that. I mean that took eighteen months to break.

0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.880
<v Speaker 3>Mhm, what we forget this?

0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah? Yeah, you're right, so you know and stretch stretch

0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:26.480
<v Speaker 4>of Barbido broke down record.

0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:27.480
<v Speaker 2>You're right.

0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:29.720
<v Speaker 4>That was on a new label called Pendulum Records. That

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:35.760
<v Speaker 4>was on by reading Yeah right, So, and I forget

0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:37.360
<v Speaker 4>who the head of promotion I think it's his name

0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:39.000
<v Speaker 4>was Steve Too, And I just forget who the head

0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 4>of promotion was. And I was like, you don't have

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.000
<v Speaker 4>to worry about radio. Let us just keep this at

0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.160
<v Speaker 4>college radio. Brian Sampson, who was running the Gavin Report

0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.560
<v Speaker 4>at College Radio, was flipping over the music and that's

0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:57.200
<v Speaker 4>all we needed right this second, and they just wanted

0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 4>to take it to radio, and then you know, it

0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:01.160
<v Speaker 4>was what it was now.

0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Of course, the second part of that story is like

0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.480
<v Speaker 2>we were like super depressed and thought like our lives

0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:09.440
<v Speaker 2>were over, and you know, but now that thirty years

0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:13.440
<v Speaker 2>have passed, it's almost like, you know, this, this tortoise

0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 2>in the hair journey that we took was worth it all,

0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, to kind of still be here. But for me,

0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.200
<v Speaker 2>I just never because we weren't in the States, you know,

0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.200
<v Speaker 2>we were living in Europe, so between like ninety three

0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:31.440
<v Speaker 2>and ninety eight, I had zero clue of what the

0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 2>system was on how to jump in the double Dutch

0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:39.480
<v Speaker 2>rope and thrive and survive like that sort of thing.

0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.880
<v Speaker 2>And you know, because we were asked like can we

0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.160
<v Speaker 2>do Jack the Rapper, can we do how can I

0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.120
<v Speaker 2>be down? Like all those things that we hear about,

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 2>and we just always felt like Rudolph the Red Dudes,

0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:58.400
<v Speaker 2>Like we didn't start meeting hip hop gods, like you know,

0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.280
<v Speaker 2>we didn't meet Wu Tang until like ninety nine at

0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.280
<v Speaker 2>that at that great day in Harlem. Shoot, that's the

0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:05.640
<v Speaker 2>that was like the first.

0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.960
<v Speaker 3>Ever did the convention circuit y'all never did br.

0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.800
<v Speaker 2>Like we were living in Europe just like our whole

0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:15.440
<v Speaker 2>thing was like, well, you know, we're not going to

0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.800
<v Speaker 2>be breakout stars in the States, so we better just

0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.760
<v Speaker 2>like plan our seeds for longevity over here in Europe.

0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.760
<v Speaker 2>And by things all apart, they were like, Okay, you

0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.600
<v Speaker 2>guys got to come home and actually promote this record,

0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:31.080
<v Speaker 2>not like be there. But anyway, I digress. I do

0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.800
<v Speaker 2>want to start from the beginning. Steve Rifkin, what was

0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:35.720
<v Speaker 2>your very first musical memory?

0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:41.360
<v Speaker 4>My very first musical memory was five years old at

0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.280
<v Speaker 4>the Apollo Theater watching in Jackson five.

0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Wow, do you know what year? This was?

0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:48.520
<v Speaker 4>Sixty seven? Sixty eight.

0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Six. This is the third story we've had of people

0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.760
<v Speaker 2>that have been at that particular Jackson's concert.

0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.480
<v Speaker 4>And No, I was with my dad. I was with

0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:06.320
<v Speaker 4>my dad. So my dad managed a DJ called Tommy

0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.359
<v Speaker 4>Small and Tommy had a club puffing home called the

0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:10.440
<v Speaker 4>Smallest Paradise.

0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.119
<v Speaker 3>Carlem Knights, that's real. I never I'm sorry, I got you.

0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:15.399
<v Speaker 2>Sorry.

0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.919
<v Speaker 4>So before Frankie Krackett, Tommy Small's was the most powerful

0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:24.080
<v Speaker 4>DJ in urban music or armbu set right, and it

0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.119
<v Speaker 4>was a station called w w r L and it

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.040
<v Speaker 4>was based out of Jersey. I saw the Jack and

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.239
<v Speaker 4>five you know, on the Ed Sullivan Show, and then

0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.560
<v Speaker 4>like two weeks later there at the Apollo and it

0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:34.720
<v Speaker 4>was it was my first live show.

0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:36.360
<v Speaker 3>The scene are you at the seat?

0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:39.480
<v Speaker 4>We were on the stage.

0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:41.480
<v Speaker 3>Of course, that's what I didn't want to as soon.

0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:50.600
<v Speaker 2>How old were you when you recognized what your dad did? Man,

0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.440
<v Speaker 2>I have the feeling that he kind of lured you

0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.480
<v Speaker 2>into the business early or without knowing, or trained you

0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:57.440
<v Speaker 2>without knowing.

0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.840
<v Speaker 4>It was my grandfather. I was major league the I

0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:02.040
<v Speaker 4>didn't know how to read it right till I was

0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:05.639
<v Speaker 4>fourteen fifteen years old, okay. So I was getting in

0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:07.840
<v Speaker 4>a lot of trouble, and not that I need you know,

0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:09.720
<v Speaker 4>I didn't need to steal because I didn't need the money.

0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:11.600
<v Speaker 4>You know. My dad had James Brown, you know, and

0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:13.879
<v Speaker 4>he had Joe Simon bat back then. So I was

0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:15.760
<v Speaker 4>just doing it to look to get to attention, but

0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:20.639
<v Speaker 4>it was really getting to a place where I was

0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:24.320
<v Speaker 4>to go to jail or get killed. And like my

0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:28.200
<v Speaker 4>grandfather called me down to Florida. We'll all juice go

0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.480
<v Speaker 4>and he was in the nightclub business, and he said,

0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.439
<v Speaker 4>he said, he goes, He goes, you gotta get your

0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:38.520
<v Speaker 4>shit together. He goes, you're gonna end up dead or

0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:40.760
<v Speaker 4>in jail. And he goes, why don't you do what

0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.200
<v Speaker 4>your cousin Randy did? And then my cousin who worked

0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.600
<v Speaker 4>at I go, what did he do? Because he goes

0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:47.520
<v Speaker 4>to visit radio stations. I'm like, who am I going

0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:49.760
<v Speaker 4>to do it for? He goes, I follow. My father

0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.920
<v Speaker 4>wants nothing to do with me. He goes and my

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.440
<v Speaker 4>father was partners with my uncle, and he goes, I'll

0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.359
<v Speaker 4>deal with it. So like a week later he called

0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:01.399
<v Speaker 4>the house. You know, there were no cell phones. This

0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:06.360
<v Speaker 4>is nineteen seventy nine, nineteen eighty, and he just pick

0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.720
<v Speaker 4>me up at the airport at four o'clock. So I

0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:11.160
<v Speaker 4>go pick them up at the airport and go where

0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.520
<v Speaker 4>we're going. I thought I was going back to my

0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:15.320
<v Speaker 4>house because now we're going into the city. We could

0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:19.719
<v Speaker 4>go see your father and uncle, and they pretty much

0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:21.560
<v Speaker 4>sit me down. They said, you're gonna go on the

0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:25.520
<v Speaker 4>road for three weeks, and you didn't go visit radio stations.

0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:31.040
<v Speaker 4>So I'm eighteen years old, and those three weeks turned

0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.480
<v Speaker 4>to be close to three years, a little into three

0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:38.399
<v Speaker 4>years where I zigzagged all across the country. You know,

0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:40.280
<v Speaker 4>I always had ten dollars worth of cordings. There were

0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:42.199
<v Speaker 4>no cell phones, there was no GPS. I didn't even

0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:44.119
<v Speaker 4>know how to read a map. I would just get

0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.960
<v Speaker 4>a payphone, put in fifty cents, I called the next station,

0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:48.600
<v Speaker 4>how do I get there from here? And I would

0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:50.439
<v Speaker 4>write it that long and I wish I still had

0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:50.800
<v Speaker 4>the book.

0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:52.320
<v Speaker 2>Really.

0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so radio promotions.

0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:58.399
<v Speaker 4>Yeah there was. There was There was no mixture. There

0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:00.760
<v Speaker 4>wasn't anything at the time. You know.

0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.480
<v Speaker 2>It's just so I'm clear now. You know when I

0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.879
<v Speaker 2>mentioned Spring Records, which is you know, subsidiary of Polydor,

0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:13.280
<v Speaker 2>was he was your father promoting all black acts on Polydor?

0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Like did this also include Mandreil and James Brown as well?

0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.639
<v Speaker 2>Or just strictly the Spring acts like Millie Jackson, Joe Simon.

0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.919
<v Speaker 4>So James, my dad brought PolyGram into the States.

0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:29.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh so he gave James Brown his first offer.

0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:34.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so so what happened was PolyGram. I think the

0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.600
<v Speaker 4>president's name was Erwin Steinberg. Yes, he goes, he goes,

0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:43.800
<v Speaker 4>give us, give us James under the PolyGram logo. But

0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.240
<v Speaker 4>you'll eat the way it's your label. Were it's still.

0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:51.400
<v Speaker 2>Signed to you. So he would have been on Spring Records.

0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:53.800
<v Speaker 4>He would have, but it was it was like PolyGram's

0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:57.080
<v Speaker 4>first urban artist. So, I mean James performed at my

0:20:57.119 --> 0:20:59.760
<v Speaker 4>bay Mitza what you know?

0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:00.920
<v Speaker 2>You can't skip that shit?

0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:04.320
<v Speaker 4>Wait?

0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:06.960
<v Speaker 2>Thirteen was what year for you? Where year were you born?

0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:11.160
<v Speaker 4>I was born sixty two February first, nineteen seventy five.

0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:24.280
<v Speaker 2>Ah damn yeah, mustache James out of curiosity?

0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:24.840
<v Speaker 5>Do you know.

0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:26.680
<v Speaker 4>What?

0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:31.560
<v Speaker 2>At least what negotiations were just in terms of him

0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:35.439
<v Speaker 2>leaving King. I never knew how he went from King

0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:36.200
<v Speaker 2>two PolyGram.

0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:41.639
<v Speaker 4>I was eighty, you know, probably so you know, my

0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.119
<v Speaker 4>dad was really a special guy, like he really like,

0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:48.680
<v Speaker 4>you know, he didn't see color. You know, you mentioned

0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:52.400
<v Speaker 4>Jack the rapper earlier, right, you know, so you know Jack,

0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:54.480
<v Speaker 4>Jack start off in radio and then he became like

0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.359
<v Speaker 4>a promotion guy, you know, and Jack was really light skinned,

0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:57.919
<v Speaker 4>you know.

0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:01.639
<v Speaker 3>Right, yeah, almost yeah, ass and and and the.

0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:04.600
<v Speaker 4>Whole and the hotels. You know, they wouldn't let black

0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:08.000
<v Speaker 4>people sleep in certain hotels. You know, my dad would

0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:08.960
<v Speaker 4>bring him into the hotel.

0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:11.040
<v Speaker 2>Wow, did they know he.

0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.320
<v Speaker 5>Was black though when he brought the because because Jack

0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:15.399
<v Speaker 5>could have went either way, so he just passed.

0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.040
<v Speaker 4>And yeah, but but the thing was this, if they did,

0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:21.080
<v Speaker 4>you know, there'd be two dead bodies, you know. And

0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:23.879
<v Speaker 4>my father you know kept this. You know his guys right,

0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:26.680
<v Speaker 4>you know, nobody was allowed to even go near the road.

0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:27.800
<v Speaker 3>Can I ask you, Steve?

0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.919
<v Speaker 5>It's fascinating because you said, like, so your dad has

0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:32.920
<v Speaker 5>been on this side of when did he start getting

0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.359
<v Speaker 5>into music in this lane, like in this R and

0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:37.879
<v Speaker 5>B lane? Was it your grandfather because you said your

0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:40.200
<v Speaker 5>grandfather was also a part of your process.

0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:44.159
<v Speaker 4>So my my grandfather owned the club called the Boulevard.

0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:46.399
<v Speaker 4>So you had the Copa which was which was like

0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:50.320
<v Speaker 4>the highlight, you know, the major player. But before you

0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:52.920
<v Speaker 4>get before you could even get a shot at the Copa,

0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:55.119
<v Speaker 4>you had a kick ass at the Boulevard. And the

0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:58.960
<v Speaker 4>Boulevard was was in Queens, on Queens Boulevard, you know,

0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:02.359
<v Speaker 4>So what happened was you know, my grandfather was somebody

0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:04.000
<v Speaker 4>that you didn't want to mess with. You know, his

0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:06.840
<v Speaker 4>three best friends were you know, pretty powerful guys.

0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:11.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm always curious about the

0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:14.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the only person I know this era that

0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:18.240
<v Speaker 2>had muscle that often our guest talks about is Mars

0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:20.360
<v Speaker 2>Levy Mars Leave. Yeah, Mars.

0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:23.760
<v Speaker 4>Mars had a lot of muscle. But my grandfather was

0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:27.639
<v Speaker 4>extremely close with Mars. But my grandfather would put you

0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:30.680
<v Speaker 4>in a headline and said, my two sons have to imagine. Oh,

0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:34.879
<v Speaker 4>so Flip Wilson came out of there, Lola came out

0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:37.640
<v Speaker 4>of there, that Churels came out of there. I could

0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:39.800
<v Speaker 4>call my mom and I could just you know, find

0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:41.160
<v Speaker 4>out a whole everybody.

0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:46.800
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, according to you, what year did quote that

0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:52.399
<v Speaker 2>level of business? And and the what I what I

0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:56.080
<v Speaker 2>dubbed the starbucksification of it. Like I don't know if

0:23:56.119 --> 0:23:59.240
<v Speaker 2>you remember the episode of The Sopranos when those guys

0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:01.800
<v Speaker 2>saw the like the first Starbucks, and they try to

0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:05.520
<v Speaker 2>go inside to shake them down, and then realize like, oh,

0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:07.480
<v Speaker 2>this is like a corporate thing, This is not like

0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:09.879
<v Speaker 2>just a local mom and pop thing. And this is

0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:13.080
<v Speaker 2>when they realized that we just can't shake you down

0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:15.640
<v Speaker 2>and do business like on our level, like in your

0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:18.879
<v Speaker 2>in your mind and mind. You I know that you

0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:22.359
<v Speaker 2>entering hip hop. I don't know how as big as

0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:26.720
<v Speaker 2>your label was, you didn't somehow fall into the crossfires

0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:31.840
<v Speaker 2>of what was ninety two to ninety eight.

0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:35.280
<v Speaker 4>I mean, they knew they couldn't do anything to me, right,

0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:38.040
<v Speaker 4>So you're talking about the East coast, West coast, right,

0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:41.240
<v Speaker 4>So I mean we had a passive that office is

0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:46.119
<v Speaker 4>in la entity. So we made it clear from the

0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:48.520
<v Speaker 4>from the get go, we're staying out of it with

0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:52.520
<v Speaker 4>minding our own business and if we're going to get touched,

0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:54.080
<v Speaker 4>people going to get touched back.

0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:56.800
<v Speaker 3>Says for all your roster too, not just Usty, but

0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:58.960
<v Speaker 3>like that was the roster everybody.

0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:02.639
<v Speaker 4>Well no, well, you know, so like when Park was

0:25:02.680 --> 0:25:07.840
<v Speaker 4>my roommate, like I marketed Pak's first record when he

0:25:07.960 --> 0:25:10.760
<v Speaker 4>was just signed to Endoscope directly, and he would stay

0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:13.360
<v Speaker 4>with me. We would be on the road Thursday through Monday,

0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:15.040
<v Speaker 4>and even though he was living up in the Bay,

0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:16.920
<v Speaker 4>he would stay with me for those two days because

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:21.240
<v Speaker 4>we had a shipload of work. So you know, when

0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:25.080
<v Speaker 4>that whole thing started, I'm like I'm walking into the

0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:27.879
<v Speaker 4>House of Blues and he's there, you know, and I

0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:29.440
<v Speaker 4>got a ball head, you know, and he smacks me

0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:31.280
<v Speaker 4>in the head, but you know, and it's stung, so

0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:34.159
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if it's a love pat or a

0:25:34.240 --> 0:25:36.919
<v Speaker 4>real smack, right, And he looked and he looks me, Look,

0:25:36.960 --> 0:25:38.359
<v Speaker 4>you're not gonna say a load to me. I'm like, man,

0:25:38.400 --> 0:25:39.800
<v Speaker 4>I don't know where I stand with you. And he

0:25:39.920 --> 0:25:43.160
<v Speaker 4>goes tell those two little lens that I'm just doing

0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:44.440
<v Speaker 4>this to keep myself relevant.

0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:55.640
<v Speaker 2>I love this ship somehow, I knew that h somehow ire.

0:25:55.280 --> 0:25:58.400
<v Speaker 4>And we hugged, and you know, like two weeks later

0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:00.080
<v Speaker 4>he was gone, oh.

0:26:02.119 --> 0:26:06.240
<v Speaker 2>Shit, all right, where's theick zaging back and forth?

0:26:06.760 --> 0:26:09.119
<v Speaker 5>Wait on that note, I will I do invite everybody

0:26:09.160 --> 0:26:10.560
<v Speaker 5>to go to the top two pockets. Have you been

0:26:10.600 --> 0:26:14.879
<v Speaker 5>to the exhibit Steve out in La Downtown. It's a

0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:17.480
<v Speaker 5>beyond all notebook pages, all everything. I just want to

0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:18.160
<v Speaker 5>stay on that note.

0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:18.920
<v Speaker 3>Get to know your man.

0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:22.359
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I've heard, I've heard a lot about this beautiful

0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:27.680
<v Speaker 2>So for you, what do you consider really your your

0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:33.000
<v Speaker 2>true entry as far as like both feet on the ground,

0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:38.600
<v Speaker 2>this is my entry into the music business. What marks

0:26:38.640 --> 0:26:40.600
<v Speaker 2>that for you, like, what year? What project?

0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:48.560
<v Speaker 4>So it was nineteen eighty three maybe and with Jimmy

0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:49.640
<v Speaker 4>Spicer laill y'all.

0:26:50.720 --> 0:26:52.760
<v Speaker 2>Shit, that's right. That is on Spring.

0:26:53.840 --> 0:26:56.119
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it was Russell's first steal and that.

0:26:56.240 --> 0:26:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Wait a minute, is this the connection to is this

0:26:59.240 --> 0:26:59.920
<v Speaker 2>how this makes it?

0:27:00.160 --> 0:27:01.680
<v Speaker 4>Cream? No?

0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:03.600
<v Speaker 2>They just did that. He knew it. I'm not.

0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:06.359
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if they knew it. They just I

0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:08.240
<v Speaker 4>mean Jet When I heard, I was like, holy shit,

0:27:08.440 --> 0:27:13.080
<v Speaker 4>I mean, but who is Jimmy Spice and Fatback had

0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:16.560
<v Speaker 4>a record called Spread Love? Yes, and then they had

0:27:16.560 --> 0:27:21.040
<v Speaker 4>another one. But actually when you mentioned the second second singles, So,

0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:22.960
<v Speaker 4>but there was a record on the album called Just

0:27:23.040 --> 0:27:25.600
<v Speaker 4>the Sign of the Future featuring Jerry bloodsoell.

0:27:25.920 --> 0:27:27.080
<v Speaker 2>You mean is this the future?

0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:29.639
<v Speaker 4>Or is this the future? Yeah? It's just the future?

0:27:30.359 --> 0:27:31.480
<v Speaker 2>Wait that was you guys too?

0:27:32.600 --> 0:27:33.320
<v Speaker 4>That was Fatback?

0:27:33.440 --> 0:27:35.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so shit.

0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:39.640
<v Speaker 4>So they wanted me to meet this old promotion guy

0:27:39.640 --> 0:27:44.840
<v Speaker 4>but named it David Clark. H and I'm eight, I'm

0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:48.280
<v Speaker 4>twenty one years old. That Dave Clark is in his

0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:52.760
<v Speaker 4>late sixties and he's like an old school promotion guy,

0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:55.280
<v Speaker 4>but one of the best promotion guys ever in the

0:27:55.359 --> 0:27:59.320
<v Speaker 4>history of promotion right, and he closed me up and

0:27:59.440 --> 0:28:02.840
<v Speaker 4>he says, you know, we're gonna have dinner with It

0:28:02.920 --> 0:28:05.399
<v Speaker 4>was a radio station called w HRK, which was in Memphis.

0:28:06.400 --> 0:28:11.680
<v Speaker 4>We're going to dinner, and I'm saying to myself, this

0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:15.920
<v Speaker 4>guy's sixty six, sixty seven years old, and he wants

0:28:15.960 --> 0:28:17.480
<v Speaker 4>me to go to the club with him afterwards, and

0:28:17.520 --> 0:28:20.560
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, I'm not going to the club. So I

0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:26.280
<v Speaker 4>find the college, so it was University of Memphis, and

0:28:27.520 --> 0:28:30.040
<v Speaker 4>I forget who the DJ was at the time, but

0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:32.240
<v Speaker 4>he takes me to the club and there is Dave

0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:34.080
<v Speaker 4>Clark with for of the most beautiful women. I've got

0:28:34.119 --> 0:28:36.720
<v Speaker 4>this shit in my life, and I was like, motherfucker.

0:28:39.600 --> 0:28:41.800
<v Speaker 4>But literally that's how I ended up putting the whole

0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:45.080
<v Speaker 4>Street team together. I would after going visiting the program

0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:47.360
<v Speaker 4>directors and music directors, doing what I have to do.

0:28:47.840 --> 0:28:50.360
<v Speaker 4>I started building my own network at just that college radio,

0:28:50.760 --> 0:28:52.720
<v Speaker 4>and that was always my foundation in my base.

0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, I'm also just visualizing this in my head

0:28:56.520 --> 0:29:00.560
<v Speaker 2>and now this is this is totally this is make consense.

0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:07.320
<v Speaker 2>All right. Okay, Look, we've had radio people CEOs on

0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:11.000
<v Speaker 2>the show before, and you know, I've maybe dipped my

0:29:11.120 --> 0:29:14.040
<v Speaker 2>toe in the water with asking these questions. So I'm

0:29:14.080 --> 0:29:17.240
<v Speaker 2>going to ask you under the guys that yes, you know,

0:29:17.560 --> 0:29:21.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm certain that the statue limitations or the grace period

0:29:21.320 --> 0:29:22.000
<v Speaker 2>has passed.

0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:23.000
<v Speaker 4>Now.

0:29:23.040 --> 0:29:25.440
<v Speaker 2>A lot of the times when this question gets deflected,

0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:30.000
<v Speaker 2>he's usually like, oh, so long ago, I don't even remember. Okay,

0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:34.440
<v Speaker 2>take that Jimmy Spicer record in nineteen eighty three. You

0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:38.480
<v Speaker 2>don't even have to specifically mention yourself. But if I

0:29:38.720 --> 0:29:43.960
<v Speaker 2>am a promotion guy trying to get that song played

0:29:44.400 --> 0:29:50.600
<v Speaker 2>on the radio, work levels of negotiations? Do I just

0:29:50.800 --> 0:29:54.880
<v Speaker 2>stoop to to get that played on the radio?

0:29:55.840 --> 0:29:57.920
<v Speaker 4>I mean, it really all depends how good a promotion

0:29:58.000 --> 0:29:58.880
<v Speaker 4>guy you really are.

0:30:00.240 --> 0:30:03.600
<v Speaker 2>All right, so how much how much juice? What juice

0:30:03.640 --> 0:30:07.400
<v Speaker 2>do you have to use? And again, whatever story, whatever

0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:08.320
<v Speaker 2>stories you can tell.

0:30:08.600 --> 0:30:11.280
<v Speaker 4>So I'm going to tell you a story, thank you. Right,

0:30:11.960 --> 0:30:16.240
<v Speaker 4>Frankie Crocker a WBLS, Yes, right, right, right, There was

0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:16.840
<v Speaker 4>a club.

0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Called the Garage Paradise.

0:30:18.680 --> 0:30:24.200
<v Speaker 4>Garage Paradise best sound system in New York. Right, Larry

0:30:24.320 --> 0:30:26.479
<v Speaker 4>was the DJ. The club opened up at at six

0:30:26.560 --> 0:30:27.520
<v Speaker 4>six thirty in the morning.

0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:28.959
<v Speaker 2>Wait, what right?

0:30:29.440 --> 0:30:32.680
<v Speaker 4>I mean people, that's when people would leave whatever club,

0:30:33.040 --> 0:30:35.400
<v Speaker 4>and then they would go to the Slumber, you know,

0:30:35.480 --> 0:30:37.840
<v Speaker 4>and it was a gay club but with the best

0:30:37.880 --> 0:30:40.320
<v Speaker 4>sound system in the world. And Larry was such a

0:30:40.360 --> 0:30:43.960
<v Speaker 4>trendset of DJing wise, so I go, I go with

0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:48.200
<v Speaker 4>Frankie one night and what that like? Well, frank I've

0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:50.960
<v Speaker 4>known Frankie since I was eleven years old. Right when

0:30:51.000 --> 0:30:53.760
<v Speaker 4>Frankie came home after the payover scandal, I think my

0:30:53.880 --> 0:30:55.680
<v Speaker 4>dad and a few other people mars leaving a few

0:30:55.680 --> 0:30:58.240
<v Speaker 4>other people throw him a party at Studio fifty four.

0:31:01.960 --> 0:31:05.600
<v Speaker 4>It's he and he goes upstairs to the DJ booth

0:31:05.640 --> 0:31:09.040
<v Speaker 4>and he stepped around anywhere between thirty forty five minutes.

0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:11.480
<v Speaker 4>So you know, in those days, you know the twelve

0:31:11.520 --> 0:31:13.440
<v Speaker 4>inch you know, a record would be ten to fifteen

0:31:13.480 --> 0:31:20.640
<v Speaker 4>minutes slong. So whatever Larry played, say between six thirty

0:31:20.640 --> 0:31:23.960
<v Speaker 4>and seven o'clock in the morning, Frankie was going to add.

0:31:24.720 --> 0:31:27.120
<v Speaker 4>So when I went back to following week, I was like,

0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:30.560
<v Speaker 4>he's he I just put two and two together. So

0:31:31.320 --> 0:31:33.719
<v Speaker 4>I would call Wendy Goldsen and say, hey, I can

0:31:33.760 --> 0:31:36.560
<v Speaker 4>get the Roots record added the BLS because I knew

0:31:36.760 --> 0:31:38.680
<v Speaker 4>and I'm looking at the time, and I knew Frankie's

0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:41.640
<v Speaker 4>up there, those three records would play, and I used

0:31:41.680 --> 0:31:45.360
<v Speaker 4>to and I took a a guest and it worked,

0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:49.080
<v Speaker 4>and I was making a shitload of money, and I was,

0:31:49.120 --> 0:31:51.880
<v Speaker 4>you know, people saying, how are you doing this? And

0:31:51.960 --> 0:31:53.680
<v Speaker 4>then I realized I just kept it to myself. I

0:31:53.720 --> 0:31:55.440
<v Speaker 4>didn't tell my father, I didn't tell my uncle, I

0:31:55.440 --> 0:31:56.640
<v Speaker 4>didn't tal I didn't even tell Frankie.

0:31:56.960 --> 0:32:00.960
<v Speaker 2>So basically, you're saying Frankie would use Larry Levan as

0:32:01.000 --> 0:32:02.440
<v Speaker 2>his human shizam.

0:32:02.960 --> 0:32:06.200
<v Speaker 4>As his right So everybody has like, you know what,

0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:08.840
<v Speaker 4>what's that? So Larry was Franky's.

0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:14.920
<v Speaker 2>So did what I'm asking though, is the payola truly

0:32:15.120 --> 0:32:18.480
<v Speaker 2>truly stoped? And what was what was like the case

0:32:18.560 --> 0:32:22.160
<v Speaker 2>that broke Paola, like to the point where the FEDS

0:32:22.200 --> 0:32:22.800
<v Speaker 2>got involved.

0:32:23.520 --> 0:32:24.960
<v Speaker 4>I mean there were a lot of cases. There was

0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:27.960
<v Speaker 4>something in the late eighties of the mid eighties on

0:32:28.040 --> 0:32:32.400
<v Speaker 4>the pop side, but I never really I'm being honest.

0:32:32.320 --> 0:32:34.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm asking who would be the person that would snitch

0:32:35.120 --> 0:32:38.719
<v Speaker 2>and say, hey, like, is it is it a label

0:32:38.840 --> 0:32:42.760
<v Speaker 2>that can't get airtime or can't get played? And they're like, well,

0:32:42.840 --> 0:32:46.000
<v Speaker 2>obviously they're playing thriller every twelve seconds, So let's call

0:32:46.080 --> 0:32:49.800
<v Speaker 2>the FEDS on. It's almost like the DJ drama situation

0:32:50.000 --> 0:32:53.280
<v Speaker 2>to me, like who has enough time to like make

0:32:53.320 --> 0:32:57.520
<v Speaker 2>a phone call to the top of the pyramid to say, hey,

0:32:57.840 --> 0:32:59.520
<v Speaker 2>we got to arrest blah blah blah.

0:32:59.600 --> 0:33:02.480
<v Speaker 4>Because me personally, I think I think it were the

0:33:02.560 --> 0:33:05.280
<v Speaker 4>markets that were probably not getting whatever they needed to

0:33:05.320 --> 0:33:07.600
<v Speaker 4>get and they were probably riding out on the bigger markets.

0:33:07.760 --> 0:33:11.720
<v Speaker 4>But you're right, who has the time? I don't understand

0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:14.240
<v Speaker 4>the rat mentality, So it's.

0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:16.160
<v Speaker 5>A mean it's only enough space, but so much based

0:33:16.160 --> 0:33:20.080
<v Speaker 5>on a playlist, So yeah, if you take enough five slots,

0:33:20.280 --> 0:33:20.959
<v Speaker 5>that's a problem.

0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:25.920
<v Speaker 2>Did you find it, like I know there was a

0:33:26.040 --> 0:33:30.160
<v Speaker 2>sort of a seed change in around ninety six, like

0:33:30.440 --> 0:33:34.600
<v Speaker 2>once Clear Channel, once a new level of radio comes

0:33:34.640 --> 0:33:38.480
<v Speaker 2>in which like they're now pre programming songs way ahead

0:33:38.520 --> 0:33:41.280
<v Speaker 2>of time. For you, what was the period in which

0:33:41.760 --> 0:33:46.920
<v Speaker 2>your actual DJ, your personality when did they lose their

0:33:47.080 --> 0:33:50.720
<v Speaker 2>power like the Frankie Croppers of the world, the Taste Makers.

0:33:51.160 --> 0:33:53.880
<v Speaker 4>Well, Frankie was the program direct so he never he

0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:57.400
<v Speaker 4>never really lost his power. Like you said, I think

0:33:57.440 --> 0:33:59.320
<v Speaker 4>when the Clear Channels came in the world, when it

0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:01.600
<v Speaker 4>when it became when it became corporate, you know you

0:34:01.880 --> 0:34:04.479
<v Speaker 4>you were trying to ask earlier. It's like, when did

0:34:04.520 --> 0:34:07.959
<v Speaker 4>the Mob leave the music business? Right, or you know whatever.

0:34:08.960 --> 0:34:12.000
<v Speaker 4>I think once everything started getting corporate, like when Vegas

0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:17.840
<v Speaker 4>came and the major corporation started getting buying the hotels boom,

0:34:18.040 --> 0:34:22.960
<v Speaker 4>I think when major corporations started buying the major record companies,

0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:27.719
<v Speaker 4>like when General Electric, you know, I think, I get yeah,

0:34:28.280 --> 0:34:30.279
<v Speaker 4>you know, so I think that's when all that shit

0:34:30.520 --> 0:34:32.680
<v Speaker 4>just got cut to the wayside.

0:34:32.800 --> 0:34:36.879
<v Speaker 2>All right, So in your opinion, what's the better era,

0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:40.280
<v Speaker 2>the Mob era of the record business or the corporate

0:34:40.360 --> 0:34:41.480
<v Speaker 2>era of the record business.

0:34:42.040 --> 0:34:43.880
<v Speaker 4>To me, the Mob era, of course, it was more

0:34:43.880 --> 0:34:44.800
<v Speaker 4>of a creative business.

0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:47.480
<v Speaker 5>But then a Mob era it was it was a

0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:52.400
<v Speaker 5>ceiling for people of color to be in executive positions

0:34:52.520 --> 0:34:54.279
<v Speaker 5>and to make decisions and stuff like that.

0:34:54.520 --> 0:34:58.480
<v Speaker 2>So it's kind of like right also, but then the

0:34:58.640 --> 0:35:02.080
<v Speaker 2>other side of that is a lot of the creative

0:35:03.239 --> 0:35:06.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, a guy like Crocker or even you. I mean,

0:35:06.760 --> 0:35:09.960
<v Speaker 2>if you decided like you could have been the person

0:35:10.000 --> 0:35:10.920
<v Speaker 2>that broke the roots out.

0:35:11.040 --> 0:35:14.000
<v Speaker 3>I know that's true for radio people. It sucked.

0:35:14.520 --> 0:35:16.400
<v Speaker 5>I mean, however, I will say it didn't suck for

0:35:16.560 --> 0:35:21.040
<v Speaker 5>mixed DJs up until the odds because although corporate took

0:35:21.080 --> 0:35:24.040
<v Speaker 5>over radio, mixed DJs could still do they little wiggle

0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:25.120
<v Speaker 5>wiggle wiggle you know.

0:35:25.840 --> 0:35:28.920
<v Speaker 4>Maybe I mean they still like the program directors have

0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:33.440
<v Speaker 4>to play this record, so you know, I think they.

0:35:33.120 --> 0:35:34.279
<v Speaker 3>Was but they did, they did.

0:35:34.360 --> 0:35:35.640
<v Speaker 5>I just mean it was it was a middle and

0:35:35.960 --> 0:35:38.680
<v Speaker 5>in between of what a MIRR was talking about with corporate. Yes,

0:35:38.760 --> 0:35:40.680
<v Speaker 5>but then all of a sudden, mix DJs had to

0:35:40.719 --> 0:35:42.719
<v Speaker 5>play certain records that their pds were telling them that

0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:45.000
<v Speaker 5>they had to play. But I'm just saying you also

0:35:45.080 --> 0:35:47.400
<v Speaker 5>remember if you think about it, and were certain DJs

0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:49.600
<v Speaker 5>in Philadelphia, they was getting a couple of dollars for

0:35:49.880 --> 0:35:50.439
<v Speaker 5>the mix show.

0:35:51.560 --> 0:35:53.640
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'll say, now it's a little exciting. I mean,

0:35:53.800 --> 0:35:57.279
<v Speaker 2>I you know, I don't know how far what fump

0:35:57.360 --> 0:36:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Master Flex is doing now, huh, which is you know, like,

0:36:01.760 --> 0:36:06.440
<v Speaker 2>to me, this is probably the best thing that I've

0:36:06.520 --> 0:36:10.920
<v Speaker 2>seen fump Master Flex dude during his entire tenure, like

0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:17.960
<v Speaker 2>at Hot ninety seven, which is basically challenge acts to

0:36:18.480 --> 0:36:21.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, provide him with us. Okay, you complain out

0:36:21.760 --> 0:36:24.000
<v Speaker 2>and support you. Okay, you got seven days to make

0:36:24.040 --> 0:36:28.480
<v Speaker 2>a song and bring it to me, and it's really

0:36:29.680 --> 0:36:31.719
<v Speaker 2>at least the buzz of it now, at least from

0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:35.360
<v Speaker 2>like my inner circle. Cats are now like it's almost

0:36:35.400 --> 0:36:38.480
<v Speaker 2>like they have a reason to live, Like suddenly their

0:36:38.520 --> 0:36:42.160
<v Speaker 2>antenna is on high and they're like more excited to

0:36:42.200 --> 0:36:45.960
<v Speaker 2>make music now because of the pressure of Flex called

0:36:46.000 --> 0:36:47.799
<v Speaker 2>me out. I got to have a song in seven days.

0:36:47.880 --> 0:36:52.960
<v Speaker 2>So now, wow, No, it's it's buzzed. I mean even

0:36:53.000 --> 0:36:55.799
<v Speaker 2>to the point where you know, we us like, hey

0:36:56.440 --> 0:36:58.560
<v Speaker 2>we might get that call. Let's let's start getting our

0:36:58.640 --> 0:37:00.840
<v Speaker 2>arsenal ready. Like that's things happening.

0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:03.919
<v Speaker 3>So that's an interesting question for Steve because I was like, man,

0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:04.600
<v Speaker 3>it just makes me.

0:37:04.680 --> 0:37:06.640
<v Speaker 5>It really reminds me of like when mixed DJ's like

0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:09.359
<v Speaker 5>in every city there was a mixed DJ that was King, right,

0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:11.919
<v Speaker 5>I mean kind of in a way right radio mixed DJ.

0:37:12.320 --> 0:37:15.000
<v Speaker 3>So now I'm curious if Funk.

0:37:14.840 --> 0:37:16.840
<v Speaker 5>Glass and Flecks and people like that still have the

0:37:16.960 --> 0:37:21.640
<v Speaker 5>same level of like pull influence that they used to.

0:37:22.400 --> 0:37:25.920
<v Speaker 4>Like I think with Flex, I think he's still I

0:37:25.960 --> 0:37:28.319
<v Speaker 4>think his voice is still something as you guys were

0:37:28.360 --> 0:37:29.880
<v Speaker 4>just saying, you know, if he's on Instagram and he's

0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:33.640
<v Speaker 4>challenging really to put out a record, you know, you

0:37:33.719 --> 0:37:35.799
<v Speaker 4>know Bus to just put something out the other day,

0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:38.840
<v Speaker 4>you know, he challenged Buss to put something out. So

0:37:40.400 --> 0:37:43.160
<v Speaker 4>I think it's really just in your DNA, like in

0:37:43.239 --> 0:37:44.000
<v Speaker 4>your personality.

0:37:44.160 --> 0:37:44.320
<v Speaker 5>You know.

0:37:45.160 --> 0:37:49.239
<v Speaker 4>Flex you know has always you know been you know,

0:37:49.400 --> 0:37:52.280
<v Speaker 4>he's bringing like he you know, he's always reinventing himself.

0:37:52.440 --> 0:37:54.279
<v Speaker 4>You know, you got to take your hat off to him.

0:37:54.400 --> 0:37:56.160
<v Speaker 4>He's making it, he's keeping himself relevant.

0:37:56.680 --> 0:37:59.720
<v Speaker 2>I hope this this spreads like wildfire, like we complaining

0:38:00.239 --> 0:38:03.799
<v Speaker 2>about the state of hip hop, but oftentimes, like we're

0:38:03.840 --> 0:38:08.200
<v Speaker 2>not challenged to really you know, bring it because oftentimes

0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:12.040
<v Speaker 2>it's just a survival game, you know for a lot

0:38:12.120 --> 0:38:12.720
<v Speaker 2>of these acts.

0:38:13.160 --> 0:38:15.080
<v Speaker 4>Now, you're right, but you know what, I challenge the

0:38:15.200 --> 0:38:20.200
<v Speaker 4>executives too, to start finding a new route, you know,

0:38:20.480 --> 0:38:24.560
<v Speaker 4>and taking chances and get off yours and be outside

0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:28.439
<v Speaker 4>and and find something new and exciting that thirty years

0:38:28.480 --> 0:38:30.839
<v Speaker 4>from now it's going to have fucking longevity, that it's

0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:33.520
<v Speaker 4>still going to be relevant to something. And these executives

0:38:33.600 --> 0:38:36.520
<v Speaker 4>today aren't doing that. Preach and that's and and and

0:38:36.640 --> 0:38:38.960
<v Speaker 4>and that's and that's coming from the top. I'm not

0:38:39.040 --> 0:38:42.200
<v Speaker 4>even blaming them. You know, it's all about a fucking

0:38:42.280 --> 0:38:45.960
<v Speaker 4>TikTok and a number. You know, I just remamped my

0:38:46.080 --> 0:38:48.399
<v Speaker 4>dad's label and it's like, and you know, my son

0:38:48.480 --> 0:38:51.960
<v Speaker 4>is running the labies twenty seventy years old, and I'm like,

0:38:52.400 --> 0:38:55.719
<v Speaker 4>his name is Alex. I'm like, Alex. People still got

0:38:55.840 --> 0:38:58.279
<v Speaker 4>to touch the fucking street and they got to touch people,

0:38:58.760 --> 0:39:03.399
<v Speaker 4>you know, So find the fucking way where you can

0:39:03.520 --> 0:39:07.359
<v Speaker 4>merge both, you know, And that's what quality control, that's

0:39:07.360 --> 0:39:10.000
<v Speaker 4>what topic, you know. And it's like they still own

0:39:10.120 --> 0:39:16.720
<v Speaker 4>the streets, and so the business doesn't really change. Words change,

0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:20.080
<v Speaker 4>but people. You know, what made the music business so great.

0:39:20.680 --> 0:39:24.759
<v Speaker 4>People took chances. I mean, look like what Russell did,

0:39:24.960 --> 0:39:27.360
<v Speaker 4>Joe and Sylvia Robinson. You know, let's go back to

0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:31.279
<v Speaker 4>the time of hip hop, right, I mean they all

0:39:31.400 --> 0:39:32.080
<v Speaker 4>took chances.

0:39:37.400 --> 0:39:40.719
<v Speaker 2>I know about that initial period in eighty three, but

0:39:40.880 --> 0:39:47.000
<v Speaker 2>once hip hop really truly gains momentum, What was your

0:39:47.160 --> 0:39:50.759
<v Speaker 2>view on it in terms of like what it was

0:39:51.160 --> 0:39:55.200
<v Speaker 2>in the mid eighties to late eighties during that sort

0:39:55.200 --> 0:39:59.279
<v Speaker 2>of that first golden era, What was your role in it.

0:40:00.239 --> 0:40:02.759
<v Speaker 4>I was just an independent promotion guy at the time.

0:40:02.880 --> 0:40:03.719
<v Speaker 2>You know the three.

0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:06.000
<v Speaker 4>You know, there's a guy by the name of Hiram

0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:11.960
<v Speaker 4>Hicks was from Philly, oh yeah, and we became extremely close.

0:40:12.600 --> 0:40:15.200
<v Speaker 4>And you know, he was extremely close to Mike Bivin

0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:18.920
<v Speaker 4>from New Addition, and they were coming up to New

0:40:19.000 --> 0:40:20.719
<v Speaker 4>York and I was in the I was. I wasn't

0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:22.560
<v Speaker 4>on the road at the time. I was up and

0:40:22.760 --> 0:40:25.040
<v Speaker 4>I was, I was in New York and he was,

0:40:25.360 --> 0:40:28.000
<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna be in towent with Mike from the audition,

0:40:28.280 --> 0:40:29.960
<v Speaker 4>and I was like, all right, cool, come by the office.

0:40:30.520 --> 0:40:34.000
<v Speaker 4>We came by. I guess they're having issues with their manager.

0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:38.120
<v Speaker 4>They wanted to find their manager. Hiram, myself, my dad,

0:40:38.160 --> 0:40:40.360
<v Speaker 4>and my uncle. We started my managing the audition. That

0:40:40.520 --> 0:40:43.200
<v Speaker 4>was like eighty five eighty six, so.

0:40:43.320 --> 0:40:47.560
<v Speaker 2>For the All for Love period, no I remember now.

0:40:47.440 --> 0:40:50.399
<v Speaker 4>I'll tell you the we got involved with the Once

0:40:50.440 --> 0:40:51.880
<v Speaker 4>a Lifetime Grove single.

0:40:52.600 --> 0:40:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so right after right after Cooling now yeah, yeah, okay.

0:40:58.040 --> 0:41:03.920
<v Speaker 4>Okay, and then when was the Any Heartbreak album eighty

0:41:03.960 --> 0:41:09.959
<v Speaker 4>seven eight eight. So I moved to la in eighty

0:41:10.040 --> 0:41:13.560
<v Speaker 4>eight as we're managing New Edition, and I hooked up

0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:19.879
<v Speaker 4>with a label called Malicious viol which at Young FC. Yeah,

0:41:20.600 --> 0:41:23.440
<v Speaker 4>so that was Mike Ross Rick Ross that day and

0:41:23.560 --> 0:41:26.920
<v Speaker 4>then the tone Wold video I think costs like five

0:41:27.040 --> 0:41:29.759
<v Speaker 4>hundred hours. Yes, And there was a guy they named

0:41:29.960 --> 0:41:34.680
<v Speaker 4>Rick Krim. Yes, just Rick was at MTV and he

0:41:34.680 --> 0:41:36.839
<v Speaker 4>would just happen to be just a really good friend

0:41:36.880 --> 0:41:40.879
<v Speaker 4>of mine, you know. And MTV was playing just rock shit,

0:41:40.960 --> 0:41:43.120
<v Speaker 4>so I never had any business with him. And they

0:41:43.160 --> 0:41:45.719
<v Speaker 4>were starting. He called me up and he said, we

0:41:45.760 --> 0:41:49.439
<v Speaker 4>was starting this new thing called Joe MTV. This wasn't dead,

0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:52.960
<v Speaker 4>this was just weekly because it was with Freddie the fact, right.

0:41:53.640 --> 0:41:56.279
<v Speaker 4>I said, Oh, it's funny that you said that, I'm

0:41:56.280 --> 0:41:58.680
<v Speaker 4>going to send you a video with this kid and

0:41:58.840 --> 0:42:01.480
<v Speaker 4>see if you like it. And it was torn Boat,

0:42:01.719 --> 0:42:03.839
<v Speaker 4>you know, and they put it in your for one

0:42:03.880 --> 0:42:05.920
<v Speaker 4>week and then it went into whatever the word was,

0:42:06.160 --> 0:42:10.960
<v Speaker 4>buzz bin or whatever, and the record just took off.

0:42:11.880 --> 0:42:14.440
<v Speaker 2>All right, So casually just dropping these bombs, can you

0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:19.480
<v Speaker 2>pre loud? Can you just name other projects you just

0:42:21.040 --> 0:42:23.760
<v Speaker 2>just happened to Forrest gump your way into.

0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:28.480
<v Speaker 4>From eighty seven to until I sold Laps in ninety nine,

0:42:28.680 --> 0:42:30.440
<v Speaker 4>you know, the only record I never really worked good.

0:42:31.160 --> 0:42:33.480
<v Speaker 4>I mean I pretty much worked everything except for Death ROWT.

0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:37.560
<v Speaker 4>But I even did some records for Russell and and

0:42:38.480 --> 0:42:42.240
<v Speaker 4>puff puffed at or something, but ship from Dose Effects

0:42:42.320 --> 0:42:48.319
<v Speaker 4>to EPMD to K Solo to Q tip and try.

0:42:48.280 --> 0:42:51.160
<v Speaker 3>To well, what's the first street team you did, though, Steve?

0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:51.279
<v Speaker 5>Like?

0:42:51.360 --> 0:42:51.919
<v Speaker 3>What was the first?

0:42:52.120 --> 0:42:54.480
<v Speaker 4>Like the first record was brand newby and slowed Down.

0:42:54.840 --> 0:42:56.680
<v Speaker 5>I just I need you to break down your whole

0:42:56.760 --> 0:42:58.520
<v Speaker 5>I'm sorry, Mirror, I don't even break down your whole

0:42:58.600 --> 0:43:01.440
<v Speaker 5>mind state of creating street Team because I'm fascinated from

0:43:01.640 --> 0:43:03.919
<v Speaker 5>being at a radio station and them then turning their

0:43:03.960 --> 0:43:07.440
<v Speaker 5>promo teams into street teams, and every other record company

0:43:07.520 --> 0:43:08.880
<v Speaker 5>turn in their think your situation.

0:43:09.120 --> 0:43:11.760
<v Speaker 3>So tell me, please, you have to ask.

0:43:11.640 --> 0:43:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Your question, because what was the year that you consider

0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:20.000
<v Speaker 2>street team to actually be like a flag planning moment?

0:43:20.360 --> 0:43:22.120
<v Speaker 2>And are you saying that before then?

0:43:22.480 --> 0:43:25.080
<v Speaker 4>So I'm gonna tall I'm going to tell you, okay

0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:28.120
<v Speaker 4>for me, okay, when the brand New being Slowdown come out?

0:43:28.320 --> 0:43:34.120
<v Speaker 4>All right? So eighty nine, well, no, I would say

0:43:34.400 --> 0:43:37.759
<v Speaker 4>eighty nine. I took my last three thousand dollars MM

0:43:38.600 --> 0:43:41.360
<v Speaker 4>and I made these pamphlets and I sent it to

0:43:41.400 --> 0:43:43.879
<v Speaker 4>all the record companies, and I came and I came

0:43:43.920 --> 0:43:45.800
<v Speaker 4>to New York and I stood up meetings with everybody,

0:43:46.600 --> 0:43:48.239
<v Speaker 4>and I told them we were going to do. We

0:43:48.320 --> 0:43:50.000
<v Speaker 4>weren't going to focus on radio because you said you

0:43:50.040 --> 0:43:52.280
<v Speaker 4>came from radio, right, you weren't playing that many rapp words.

0:43:52.760 --> 0:43:54.600
<v Speaker 5>Yes, the people before me, five years before me, Yes,

0:43:54.640 --> 0:43:58.239
<v Speaker 5>but I got you ye right, So nine wrap radio.

0:43:58.600 --> 0:44:01.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah right. So at the at the end of the day,

0:44:01.719 --> 0:44:04.680
<v Speaker 4>I came back with one hundred and forty six thousand

0:44:04.680 --> 0:44:10.160
<v Speaker 4>dollars run of business, oh pamphlet from the pamphlet, and

0:44:10.560 --> 0:44:13.120
<v Speaker 4>it was just and I covered everything, like, you know,

0:44:13.640 --> 0:44:16.160
<v Speaker 4>we empowered the mixed show DJ, We empowered the college

0:44:16.280 --> 0:44:20.640
<v Speaker 4>radio like and just you know, the barbershops like and

0:44:20.760 --> 0:44:22.760
<v Speaker 4>it was just wherever there were a group of people,

0:44:23.960 --> 0:44:26.160
<v Speaker 4>we would just go and attack and just you know

0:44:26.480 --> 0:44:28.480
<v Speaker 4>where the map, you know. And my philosophy is even

0:44:28.560 --> 0:44:30.360
<v Speaker 4>to this day, how many times have you ready to

0:44:30.440 --> 0:44:32.600
<v Speaker 4>be you if it's a recular movie, a restaurant whatever

0:44:32.640 --> 0:44:36.000
<v Speaker 4>it was that the review is straight garbage, but the

0:44:36.080 --> 0:44:40.120
<v Speaker 4>ship was incredible. Shank me down right, really, I mean

0:44:40.280 --> 0:44:42.680
<v Speaker 4>bad news, harviews.

0:44:43.280 --> 0:44:48.000
<v Speaker 2>We're still here. Yeah, So you're saying before that, like,

0:44:48.239 --> 0:44:52.360
<v Speaker 2>because I can't imagine New York without seeing snipes of

0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:56.880
<v Speaker 2>an album coming out or stickers everywhere of all those things.

0:44:57.280 --> 0:45:02.240
<v Speaker 2>So between you and Renee, who was the first to really.

0:45:03.120 --> 0:45:04.840
<v Speaker 4>That was early night, you know. But I'm gonna you

0:45:04.880 --> 0:45:07.320
<v Speaker 4>know the one when we did I'm gonna get that

0:45:07.400 --> 0:45:10.920
<v Speaker 4>Joe a lot of credit. Okay, So when we signed punk,

0:45:11.880 --> 0:45:15.320
<v Speaker 4>you drove down the West Side Highway. We must have

0:45:15.320 --> 0:45:17.680
<v Speaker 4>spent twenty thousand dollars on posted.

0:45:17.760 --> 0:45:21.960
<v Speaker 3>I mean, You're literally was black and yellows right from the.

0:45:22.080 --> 0:45:25.000
<v Speaker 4>Bridge to fucking Basketball City.

0:45:25.360 --> 0:45:26.960
<v Speaker 3>What can I see those? I can see it?

0:45:27.719 --> 0:45:31.520
<v Speaker 4>That's I mean that that was Joe saying this is

0:45:31.560 --> 0:45:33.880
<v Speaker 4>what we got to do, you know, And and that

0:45:34.040 --> 0:45:36.080
<v Speaker 4>was just my philosophy. It's like, I didn't grow up

0:45:36.120 --> 0:45:38.560
<v Speaker 4>on the street. The street excites me. I mean I

0:45:38.640 --> 0:45:42.279
<v Speaker 4>go along alur right, So who am I to say

0:45:42.360 --> 0:45:44.600
<v Speaker 4>no to somebody like when they had that type of

0:45:44.719 --> 0:45:46.040
<v Speaker 4>passion and.

0:45:46.080 --> 0:45:49.799
<v Speaker 3>The full concept of everybody wearing something similar to Yeah.

0:45:50.400 --> 0:45:52.120
<v Speaker 4>But like my head of my the head of my

0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:54.319
<v Speaker 4>street team in New York closed me up one night

0:45:54.840 --> 0:45:57.800
<v Speaker 4>fucking ecstatic. He was, I just wrapped the attenor of

0:45:57.840 --> 0:46:02.160
<v Speaker 4>the Empire State Building. I'm like, say what, And I'm

0:46:02.239 --> 0:46:06.440
<v Speaker 4>like the antenna of the I'm like, first of all,

0:46:06.480 --> 0:46:09.080
<v Speaker 4>that's the dumbest thing like, I mean, you know, like

0:46:09.200 --> 0:46:12.680
<v Speaker 4>you can. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard because

0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:13.680
<v Speaker 4>you can't fucking see it.

0:46:15.040 --> 0:46:17.000
<v Speaker 5>So on that note, then have you had to bail

0:46:17.040 --> 0:46:19.319
<v Speaker 5>people out of jail and stuff? Because sometimes three teens

0:46:19.360 --> 0:46:21.200
<v Speaker 5>go hard? I was like this say, and then they

0:46:21.280 --> 0:46:21.839
<v Speaker 5>fight each other.

0:46:23.600 --> 0:46:26.920
<v Speaker 2>You violate the post no bills of all, like when

0:46:26.960 --> 0:46:29.440
<v Speaker 2>you walk into our office, like behind me exceptions.

0:46:29.719 --> 0:46:34.000
<v Speaker 4>You know, there was like five bells, bonds and a

0:46:34.000 --> 0:46:36.080
<v Speaker 4>bunch of criminal attorneys pretty much in every city.

0:46:38.080 --> 0:46:40.719
<v Speaker 2>Wait a minute, it just hit me. It just hit

0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:45.759
<v Speaker 2>me the night. If you you older Roots fans can

0:46:45.840 --> 0:46:50.480
<v Speaker 2>remember the infamous Old Dirty Bastard moment with the Roots

0:46:50.640 --> 0:46:57.120
<v Speaker 2>at uh at Irving Plaza. I believe that Irving Plaza

0:46:57.560 --> 0:47:02.400
<v Speaker 2>was one of the first clubs too, and the Roots

0:47:02.560 --> 0:47:05.560
<v Speaker 2>not because of us in general or or the fight

0:47:05.680 --> 0:47:09.000
<v Speaker 2>between Old Dirty Bastard. What's what's the thing when you

0:47:09.600 --> 0:47:15.840
<v Speaker 2>get spray paint and then you lay a like you

0:47:15.960 --> 0:47:18.239
<v Speaker 2>lay a grid on the on the ground, and then.

0:47:18.160 --> 0:47:21.600
<v Speaker 4>You spray paint it and then it's just stencil.

0:47:22.280 --> 0:47:28.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I remember that that there was a bunch of

0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:31.960
<v Speaker 2>hell on Earth. There was a bunch of mob deep

0:47:32.040 --> 0:47:38.280
<v Speaker 2>hell on Earth. Stencils all over Irving Plaza.

0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:38.719
<v Speaker 5>And.

0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:44.680
<v Speaker 4>You know there was also a bunch of Nike swishes too.

0:47:45.400 --> 0:47:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay, no, no, I'm not playing.

0:47:50.440 --> 0:47:50.600
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:47:50.800 --> 0:47:54.000
<v Speaker 2>It was just like there was just like no more wrapping,

0:47:54.400 --> 0:47:59.880
<v Speaker 2>like they actually mob deep like so for like two years,

0:48:00.160 --> 0:48:02.800
<v Speaker 2>like no hip hop was allowed an IRB implative just

0:48:02.880 --> 0:48:07.080
<v Speaker 2>because of the level of Street team. But okay, without

0:48:07.200 --> 0:48:10.840
<v Speaker 2>a college degree in terms of knowing the power that

0:48:10.960 --> 0:48:15.000
<v Speaker 2>you have with this type of marketing, because you know, essentially,

0:48:15.680 --> 0:48:20.439
<v Speaker 2>if you're in a car, you got about two point

0:48:20.600 --> 0:48:22.759
<v Speaker 2>nine seconds to just look to your right to see

0:48:22.840 --> 0:48:25.480
<v Speaker 2>something and have it stick to your brain. Were you

0:48:26.840 --> 0:48:29.759
<v Speaker 2>in terms like doing these snipes and doing this this

0:48:29.920 --> 0:48:36.120
<v Speaker 2>sort of level of street promotion, were you also like

0:48:36.239 --> 0:48:39.279
<v Speaker 2>designing the snipes, like would you know that with big

0:48:39.360 --> 0:48:41.520
<v Speaker 2>pun that yellow and black will stand out?

0:48:41.680 --> 0:48:46.160
<v Speaker 4>And so we had our own art, you know. So

0:48:46.440 --> 0:48:49.000
<v Speaker 4>I mean they would be working twenty four seven, like

0:48:49.160 --> 0:48:51.840
<v Speaker 4>you know, and they would just until Joe approved whatever

0:48:52.400 --> 0:48:56.000
<v Speaker 4>needed to get done. Joe approved it. But you know,

0:48:57.200 --> 0:49:00.359
<v Speaker 4>but with the street team, to me, everybody as their

0:49:00.440 --> 0:49:02.759
<v Speaker 4>research now you know, and you know, is it doing this,

0:49:02.920 --> 0:49:05.920
<v Speaker 4>it's doing that. But whatever the city was in, like

0:49:06.080 --> 0:49:10.000
<v Speaker 4>we knew the most popular bus, where the kids were going,

0:49:10.280 --> 0:49:14.280
<v Speaker 4>you know, from school to to the to the deli

0:49:14.440 --> 0:49:17.160
<v Speaker 4>or you know whatever it was, so that that's the

0:49:17.239 --> 0:49:20.360
<v Speaker 4>type of research that that we were doing it. I

0:49:20.440 --> 0:49:23.719
<v Speaker 4>didn't care about anything else. It's just where are the kids,

0:49:23.800 --> 0:49:25.719
<v Speaker 4>and where are the kids populating? And where the kids

0:49:25.760 --> 0:49:28.960
<v Speaker 4>hanging out? You know, And that's and that's really all

0:49:29.000 --> 0:49:31.960
<v Speaker 4>I care about. I didn't care about every time we

0:49:32.120 --> 0:49:34.000
<v Speaker 4>came with the record, I would say, if we get

0:49:34.040 --> 0:49:37.880
<v Speaker 4>these five stations, we'll do three hundred thousand. We get

0:49:37.960 --> 0:49:41.000
<v Speaker 4>these fifteen stations, we'll go go. We get twenty five stations,

0:49:41.239 --> 0:49:43.919
<v Speaker 4>we'll go planning. If we run the gamut, we're gonna

0:49:43.920 --> 0:49:47.400
<v Speaker 4>go multiplan. I didn't give a fuck about that whole thing.

0:49:47.560 --> 0:49:49.359
<v Speaker 4>All I can't, you know, I have a corny saying

0:49:49.400 --> 0:49:51.759
<v Speaker 4>the streets don't lie. And it could be whatever you

0:49:51.800 --> 0:49:53.640
<v Speaker 4>could be on a day or drive franch are one

0:49:53.719 --> 0:49:56.880
<v Speaker 4>hundred and twenty fifty, whatever it is. You know, you

0:49:57.080 --> 0:49:58.720
<v Speaker 4>just got to find your base and your foundation.

0:49:59.800 --> 0:50:05.440
<v Speaker 2>So so with having this this this well oiled machine

0:50:06.600 --> 0:50:10.640
<v Speaker 2>establishing in the early nineties and whatnot, why step into

0:50:10.840 --> 0:50:15.399
<v Speaker 2>starting your own label? Why not like turn this into

0:50:16.400 --> 0:50:18.759
<v Speaker 2>like the one thing you focus on and making that.

0:50:19.080 --> 0:50:24.359
<v Speaker 4>The So this is a great question. So I think

0:50:24.400 --> 0:50:27.080
<v Speaker 4>I'm a multi multi millionaires. I'm doing a few hundred

0:50:27.080 --> 0:50:29.840
<v Speaker 4>thousand dollars a year now, and I come back to

0:50:29.960 --> 0:50:32.480
<v Speaker 4>New York. I'm living in LA I come back to

0:50:32.520 --> 0:50:34.640
<v Speaker 4>New York for my cousin's wedding. And there was a

0:50:34.680 --> 0:50:37.360
<v Speaker 4>guy that named a Jerry Ad from the Famous Artists Agency,

0:50:37.840 --> 0:50:39.800
<v Speaker 4>and every time I came, every time I came to

0:50:39.880 --> 0:50:41.560
<v Speaker 4>New York, he would let me work out of his office.

0:50:42.239 --> 0:50:43.280
<v Speaker 4>And he goes, I don't understand.

0:50:43.320 --> 0:50:43.880
<v Speaker 2>He was, what do you mean?

0:50:43.920 --> 0:50:45.279
<v Speaker 4>He goes, why don't you have your own labor? Like,

0:50:45.360 --> 0:50:47.319
<v Speaker 4>why the fuck do I want my own label? I'm good,

0:50:47.560 --> 0:50:50.759
<v Speaker 4>Like I would work the three o'clock change, go to

0:50:50.960 --> 0:50:54.680
<v Speaker 4>basketball courts, playball, go home, shower and eat dinner, go

0:50:54.760 --> 0:50:57.640
<v Speaker 4>back to your office and send out my reports. So

0:50:58.440 --> 0:51:01.319
<v Speaker 4>you know, as we said earlier, and my family really

0:51:01.360 --> 0:51:05.399
<v Speaker 4>doesn't play. So he goes, well, we take this meeting

0:51:05.440 --> 0:51:08.000
<v Speaker 4>with Paul Marshall. I'm like, yeah, Paul is my dad's lafer.

0:51:08.160 --> 0:51:09.719
<v Speaker 4>So you know, Paul says, I could get you this

0:51:09.800 --> 0:51:12.719
<v Speaker 4>tremendous deal with BMG. I'm like, I'm good. I don't

0:51:12.760 --> 0:51:15.000
<v Speaker 4>want it right. So by the time I get to

0:51:16.000 --> 0:51:18.279
<v Speaker 4>Richardsson's apartment, who is my partner or a lot of

0:51:18.320 --> 0:51:21.279
<v Speaker 4>my childhood best friend, my Dad's called and he goes,

0:51:22.440 --> 0:51:24.160
<v Speaker 4>I need you to come to the house. I go,

0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:26.520
<v Speaker 4>I'm in the city. It's a forty five minute train ride, Like,

0:51:26.560 --> 0:51:28.200
<v Speaker 4>who knows what time to train for the country is.

0:51:28.560 --> 0:51:30.239
<v Speaker 4>I don't give a fuck, come to the house now.

0:51:31.600 --> 0:51:35.200
<v Speaker 4>And he was with you know, some of his people,

0:51:35.360 --> 0:51:37.000
<v Speaker 4>and you know, he was ready to beat the shit

0:51:37.000 --> 0:51:39.640
<v Speaker 4>out of me. He goes, don't you ever turn down

0:51:39.680 --> 0:51:41.800
<v Speaker 4>a fucking record deal? He goes, you know the difference

0:51:41.840 --> 0:51:45.120
<v Speaker 4>between a record deal or a label deal and what

0:51:45.280 --> 0:51:48.759
<v Speaker 4>you're doing now. I'm like, no, he goes, what you're

0:51:48.800 --> 0:51:50.640
<v Speaker 4>doing now, you're only as good as your last record

0:51:50.719 --> 0:51:54.279
<v Speaker 4>or your last contract. With owning a record company, you

0:51:54.360 --> 0:51:57.920
<v Speaker 4>have true assets, so even when you're not doing something,

0:51:58.440 --> 0:52:01.040
<v Speaker 4>it could be making money. And it was probably the

0:52:01.120 --> 0:52:06.000
<v Speaker 4>first time that we ever agreed, and like it clicked

0:52:06.040 --> 0:52:07.560
<v Speaker 4>into my fucking head. I was like, you know what,

0:52:08.120 --> 0:52:10.120
<v Speaker 4>you're right, And I said, you know what, I'm gonna

0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:13.480
<v Speaker 4>call Paul in the morning and I'll go see He

0:52:13.520 --> 0:52:16.840
<v Speaker 4>didn't believe me. Knowing how fucking crazy I am. So

0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:19.160
<v Speaker 4>he called Paul. He says, we'll see you at two o'clock,

0:52:22.400 --> 0:52:26.280
<v Speaker 4>and you know, and that's how Loud pretty much started.

0:52:26.719 --> 0:52:29.560
<v Speaker 3>I was just curious your father, since you guys always

0:52:29.560 --> 0:52:31.279
<v Speaker 3>wondering how he thought it about hip hop.

0:52:32.280 --> 0:52:33.960
<v Speaker 4>My dad put us first hip hop record. I mean,

0:52:34.000 --> 0:52:37.120
<v Speaker 4>but my dad never consider himself. He never considered himself

0:52:37.120 --> 0:52:39.239
<v Speaker 4>an an ar guy. He just considered himself a promotion guy.

0:52:39.400 --> 0:52:44.000
<v Speaker 4>And you know, and he just truly loved people. And

0:52:44.120 --> 0:52:46.399
<v Speaker 4>he didn't see he didn't see color, he didn't see anything.

0:52:46.400 --> 0:52:46.520
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:52:47.239 --> 0:52:50.120
<v Speaker 4>It's like our house was like United.

0:52:49.960 --> 0:52:52.360
<v Speaker 5>Nations, right, So you guys, it was a nice evolution.

0:52:52.440 --> 0:52:53.840
<v Speaker 5>That's what I kind of mean for your family, Like

0:52:53.920 --> 0:52:55.400
<v Speaker 5>you were the perfect kind of evolution.

0:52:56.280 --> 0:52:57.799
<v Speaker 4>I mean, Sharpton lives in our house.

0:52:59.239 --> 0:53:03.920
<v Speaker 2>The first act you signed was Twist, correct. Yeah, So

0:53:06.520 --> 0:53:10.200
<v Speaker 2>it's always curious to see flagship artists on these big labels,

0:53:10.280 --> 0:53:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Like you know, I'm just finding out that Rico Suave

0:53:13.160 --> 0:53:18.360
<v Speaker 2>was the first act on the interscope. What was that

0:53:18.480 --> 0:53:23.160
<v Speaker 2>about Twister? And actually, for me, I think the first

0:53:23.200 --> 0:53:26.520
<v Speaker 2>thing I heard about Twista was like a beef with

0:53:26.680 --> 0:53:30.239
<v Speaker 2>treats from naughty by nature, like that's what was it

0:53:30.320 --> 0:53:35.520
<v Speaker 2>about Twister that attracted you to him? And said I

0:53:35.600 --> 0:53:38.120
<v Speaker 2>can sell this or was it just like it's dope

0:53:38.239 --> 0:53:39.160
<v Speaker 2>and let me put it out.

0:53:39.960 --> 0:53:42.640
<v Speaker 4>So the record was called Mister Tongue Twist. And my

0:53:42.960 --> 0:53:46.200
<v Speaker 4>staff was losing their mind and they were comparing I

0:53:46.239 --> 0:53:48.879
<v Speaker 4>forget who the the guy was a poor righteous.

0:53:48.520 --> 0:53:53.520
<v Speaker 2>Teachers right where I was intelligent, right, and they.

0:53:53.480 --> 0:53:55.840
<v Speaker 4>Were comparing him to and they were comparing him to

0:53:55.960 --> 0:53:59.400
<v Speaker 4>that and just it was my first act that I

0:53:59.520 --> 0:54:02.680
<v Speaker 4>ever really, you know, I was like, all right, this

0:54:02.760 --> 0:54:06.600
<v Speaker 4>could be something that special. So and that was the

0:54:06.680 --> 0:54:10.040
<v Speaker 4>first act that I brought to BMG. And we found

0:54:10.040 --> 0:54:11.879
<v Speaker 4>it through my We found it through my street team

0:54:11.920 --> 0:54:15.800
<v Speaker 4>and was a guy named of Jack Sterling. He was

0:54:15.840 --> 0:54:18.200
<v Speaker 4>out of Chicago street rep and he sent it to

0:54:18.280 --> 0:54:20.880
<v Speaker 4>a guy name of Faye Dubinet who was doing my

0:54:21.000 --> 0:54:23.719
<v Speaker 4>college radio and Mick show. We were stigned to call

0:54:23.840 --> 0:54:28.200
<v Speaker 4>Mix Show and he was managed by DJ in Chicago

0:54:28.320 --> 0:54:31.040
<v Speaker 4>and GCI by the name of Eric de Witz. I

0:54:31.120 --> 0:54:34.759
<v Speaker 4>flew him out. We did a deal and and I

0:54:34.840 --> 0:54:36.880
<v Speaker 4>had something to show BMG.

0:54:38.040 --> 0:54:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Let me ask you, why did you choose BMG, because

0:54:44.440 --> 0:54:48.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, for me at least. I never considered r

0:54:49.000 --> 0:54:54.239
<v Speaker 2>c A as a front runner in urban music, like

0:54:54.320 --> 0:54:59.040
<v Speaker 2>the way that Columbia was, or I'm a maybe warner

0:54:59.160 --> 0:55:02.120
<v Speaker 2>with with Tommy Boy. But was it the fact that

0:55:02.200 --> 0:55:06.400
<v Speaker 2>they had new track record whatsoever and they offered you space.

0:55:07.600 --> 0:55:07.919
<v Speaker 2>I didn't.

0:55:07.920 --> 0:55:09.279
<v Speaker 4>I didn't even look at that. I just had so

0:55:09.400 --> 0:55:13.440
<v Speaker 4>much confidence to myself. You know, when I first was going,

0:55:13.480 --> 0:55:15.359
<v Speaker 4>there was a guy named of Lou Mallam who had

0:55:15.400 --> 0:55:17.920
<v Speaker 4>Zoo Entertainment that b b MD financed. It was supposed

0:55:17.920 --> 0:55:20.359
<v Speaker 4>to be a new company. Twist was the only thing

0:55:20.560 --> 0:55:23.919
<v Speaker 4>that really came out of Zoo, and they shut Zoo down.

0:55:24.360 --> 0:55:26.960
<v Speaker 4>So then a guy named Ron Urban, who was a

0:55:27.040 --> 0:55:29.880
<v Speaker 4>finance guy who was the CFO and CEO of r

0:55:29.960 --> 0:55:33.759
<v Speaker 4>c A. He was in Atlanta visiting this attorney, Joel Katz,

0:55:33.760 --> 0:55:37.560
<v Speaker 4>and it was Jack the Rapper, and we came in

0:55:37.680 --> 0:55:39.840
<v Speaker 4>and I just took a liking to Rot and he says,

0:55:40.800 --> 0:55:42.920
<v Speaker 4>you know, I say it now, He goes, you give

0:55:42.960 --> 0:55:45.040
<v Speaker 4>me an inch and I'll give you whatever you need.

0:55:45.800 --> 0:55:48.000
<v Speaker 4>So and it was like, how much heavy lifting are

0:55:48.040 --> 0:55:50.320
<v Speaker 4>you going to need from us? I'm like, I'm not

0:55:50.360 --> 0:55:51.799
<v Speaker 4>going to ged you guys to do a fucking thing.

0:55:52.560 --> 0:55:54.680
<v Speaker 4>You know, we already we were already staffed up through

0:55:54.719 --> 0:55:57.240
<v Speaker 4>the marketing company, you know, and then we got lucky.

0:55:57.880 --> 0:56:00.279
<v Speaker 4>There was somebody who worked at our RCA. He became

0:56:00.360 --> 0:56:03.040
<v Speaker 4>my brother pretty much a partner. I me't even Mojo

0:56:03.120 --> 0:56:06.120
<v Speaker 4>and you can see it. And Mojo ended up after

0:56:06.160 --> 0:56:08.120
<v Speaker 4>a year year and a half at our say, you know,

0:56:08.480 --> 0:56:09.560
<v Speaker 4>he's been with me ever since.

0:56:09.880 --> 0:56:13.239
<v Speaker 5>I'm curious what your expectations were or I guess, yeah,

0:56:13.239 --> 0:56:15.200
<v Speaker 5>what you told them to expect from this record.

0:56:15.719 --> 0:56:17.440
<v Speaker 4>I didn't want a penny for the What they had

0:56:17.480 --> 0:56:19.200
<v Speaker 4>to do is just give me money to make the album.

0:56:19.239 --> 0:56:22.280
<v Speaker 4>And I think the album budget was fifty thousand dollars. Okay,

0:56:22.760 --> 0:56:25.640
<v Speaker 4>I'll handle all the marketing money, and then once I

0:56:25.680 --> 0:56:27.719
<v Speaker 4>get into one hundred thousand, you got to give me

0:56:27.760 --> 0:56:28.880
<v Speaker 4>a few hundred thousand dollars.

0:56:29.520 --> 0:56:34.279
<v Speaker 2>At the time, were you trying to figure out how

0:56:34.320 --> 0:56:38.880
<v Speaker 2>to position yourself next to a deaf jam, a Tommy

0:56:38.920 --> 0:56:41.880
<v Speaker 2>boy a Jive or were you just going to be

0:56:41.960 --> 0:56:43.919
<v Speaker 2>so underground you were the abyss.

0:56:44.680 --> 0:56:46.759
<v Speaker 4>I you know, once you really get to know me,

0:56:47.280 --> 0:56:49.160
<v Speaker 4>you know, you're running a race. You can't worry what

0:56:49.239 --> 0:56:51.719
<v Speaker 4>the next person's doing, Like if you if you look over.

0:56:51.800 --> 0:56:56.200
<v Speaker 4>You showed me You've got a trip. Eventually, so Russell

0:56:56.280 --> 0:56:58.520
<v Speaker 4>had that jam, jive had jibe.

0:56:58.640 --> 0:56:58.800
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:56:59.320 --> 0:57:01.680
<v Speaker 4>You know Maran Clyde, I mean Clyde Club had to

0:57:01.719 --> 0:57:03.239
<v Speaker 4>be the fast guy in the records. I mean he

0:57:03.320 --> 0:57:07.279
<v Speaker 4>took everybody you know when he when he sold. But

0:57:08.200 --> 0:57:10.360
<v Speaker 4>I never I never looked at that way because and

0:57:10.440 --> 0:57:13.040
<v Speaker 4>I looked at them as allies because they were still

0:57:13.080 --> 0:57:14.280
<v Speaker 4>paying me to rook their records.

0:57:14.880 --> 0:57:16.640
<v Speaker 2>And it's never a conflict of interest at all.

0:57:17.920 --> 0:57:20.480
<v Speaker 4>I had to you know, no, I mean, if you

0:57:20.560 --> 0:57:22.360
<v Speaker 4>know me, it's like I'm going to be a straight shooter,

0:57:22.680 --> 0:57:24.080
<v Speaker 4>Like if you're going to pay me, I'm going to

0:57:24.160 --> 0:57:26.200
<v Speaker 4>do the job. And if I can't do your job,

0:57:26.200 --> 0:57:27.200
<v Speaker 4>I'm not going to take your money.

0:57:27.840 --> 0:57:29.920
<v Speaker 5>And here's the question that you work in their records too,

0:57:30.040 --> 0:57:32.000
<v Speaker 5>do you have an ear now to say to people

0:57:32.080 --> 0:57:34.760
<v Speaker 5>to other labels, like, I know I can work this

0:57:34.880 --> 0:57:38.240
<v Speaker 5>on college and mix, but commercial.

0:57:39.480 --> 0:57:42.480
<v Speaker 3>This is a more college mixed, you know, Like how

0:57:42.520 --> 0:57:43.160
<v Speaker 3>does that work?

0:57:43.640 --> 0:57:46.400
<v Speaker 4>So by this time, pretty much we were on retaining

0:57:46.480 --> 0:57:49.120
<v Speaker 4>with every major. I mean I was making more money

0:57:49.120 --> 0:57:50.040
<v Speaker 4>with the marketing company than I.

0:57:50.080 --> 0:57:53.200
<v Speaker 3>Was making with the label, right, So they listening to

0:57:53.320 --> 0:57:55.600
<v Speaker 3>you so like we would be.

0:57:55.600 --> 0:57:58.000
<v Speaker 4>Part of their staff, you know, and then finally they're saying,

0:57:58.000 --> 0:58:00.320
<v Speaker 4>why are we paying you know them so much money.

0:58:01.040 --> 0:58:03.800
<v Speaker 4>Some of the retainers you know, got dropped, and people

0:58:03.840 --> 0:58:07.040
<v Speaker 4>started putting the departments in place, but they were still

0:58:07.240 --> 0:58:10.120
<v Speaker 4>everybody pretty much all came under my umbrella.

0:58:10.840 --> 0:58:11.160
<v Speaker 2>Mm hm.

0:58:11.800 --> 0:58:14.680
<v Speaker 4>So I some you know, so like Fade, who was

0:58:14.720 --> 0:58:16.840
<v Speaker 4>one of my first employees. He went over to Scope,

0:58:16.920 --> 0:58:19.920
<v Speaker 4>and he actually came with the loud name. So when

0:58:19.960 --> 0:58:24.440
<v Speaker 4>Interscope cut the retainer with Medade would still put me

0:58:24.520 --> 0:58:28.640
<v Speaker 4>on certain records, you know. So I just had everybody

0:58:28.680 --> 0:58:29.080
<v Speaker 4>in place.

0:58:34.280 --> 0:58:36.520
<v Speaker 2>All right, I'm dying to ask you to get in

0:58:36.600 --> 0:58:40.360
<v Speaker 2>the Wu Tang territory, but I can't forget what was

0:58:40.400 --> 0:58:43.920
<v Speaker 2>it about. And you know, I think it's also notable

0:58:44.040 --> 0:58:48.240
<v Speaker 2>to point out that, you know, in the early nineties,

0:58:48.320 --> 0:58:54.320
<v Speaker 2>suddenly the regionalism of hip hop is expanding more. You know.

0:58:55.480 --> 0:58:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Of course, we saw like the Ghetto Boys and rap

0:58:57.960 --> 0:59:01.160
<v Speaker 2>a lot in Houston happened like really go mainstream in

0:59:01.200 --> 0:59:04.760
<v Speaker 2>the nineties, and then suddenly like we're realizing that, oh,

0:59:04.840 --> 0:59:08.760
<v Speaker 2>California has good MC's and this territory in Atlanta, and

0:59:09.240 --> 0:59:11.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, that sort of thing for you though, with

0:59:11.720 --> 0:59:16.200
<v Speaker 2>the signing of the Alcoholics and mad Cap, especially mad Cap,

0:59:16.600 --> 0:59:19.600
<v Speaker 2>I was one of those people that you know, I

0:59:20.000 --> 0:59:23.000
<v Speaker 2>saw like a mad Cap show, and you know, the

0:59:23.080 --> 0:59:26.400
<v Speaker 2>mad Cap was like, just listen to that tape. And

0:59:26.440 --> 0:59:28.320
<v Speaker 2>I listened to that tape so much like they were

0:59:28.400 --> 0:59:30.400
<v Speaker 2>like a mixture of They were kind of the idea

0:59:30.440 --> 0:59:33.880
<v Speaker 2>of what I thought, because even in ninety two ninety three,

0:59:34.360 --> 0:59:36.720
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know what the roots were gonna be.

0:59:37.440 --> 0:59:39.520
<v Speaker 4>So the reason why you like mad Cap Bunch is

0:59:39.560 --> 0:59:42.760
<v Speaker 4>because of Joe the trumpet play right and he was

0:59:42.840 --> 0:59:43.840
<v Speaker 4>live right.

0:59:44.720 --> 0:59:47.160
<v Speaker 2>But also I mean, you know, like there were live

0:59:47.240 --> 0:59:51.280
<v Speaker 2>elements on that record. Yep. And I you know, again,

0:59:51.440 --> 0:59:56.560
<v Speaker 2>we were just starting our first record, and we weren't

0:59:56.600 --> 0:59:59.240
<v Speaker 2>in full agreeance on whether or not what we were

0:59:59.360 --> 1:00:02.320
<v Speaker 2>in concert should also be the same thing that we're

1:00:02.360 --> 1:00:04.920
<v Speaker 2>on in the studio. Actually I was. I was against it.

1:00:05.000 --> 1:00:06.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, we don't want to be a band in

1:00:06.600 --> 1:00:09.560
<v Speaker 2>the studio, like let's be a regular rap group. But

1:00:11.120 --> 1:00:13.160
<v Speaker 2>I heard the Cap record and I was like, oh,

1:00:14.360 --> 1:00:17.400
<v Speaker 2>all right, between that and what the Forest Side was doing,

1:00:17.440 --> 1:00:19.320
<v Speaker 2>then I was like, Okay, I see an entry there,

1:00:19.400 --> 1:00:25.200
<v Speaker 2>but for me or you at least like, why were

1:00:25.280 --> 1:00:26.800
<v Speaker 2>they just too early for their time?

1:00:27.720 --> 1:00:29.120
<v Speaker 4>I think they were a little bit too early for

1:00:29.280 --> 1:00:32.440
<v Speaker 4>their time. And then you know, they had two records

1:00:33.280 --> 1:00:37.280
<v Speaker 4>that I thought could have been the first single, the

1:00:37.440 --> 1:00:41.000
<v Speaker 4>kit Kable, produced by Broadway, and then right second record,

1:00:41.040 --> 1:00:42.400
<v Speaker 4>Proof in the Pudding, which was you know, a lot

1:00:42.440 --> 1:00:47.160
<v Speaker 4>of live instruments. I think, of course, you know, the

1:00:47.240 --> 1:00:50.000
<v Speaker 4>only one who really had it. And they were from Pasadena.

1:00:50.200 --> 1:00:54.000
<v Speaker 4>They weren't from South Central. So even though Pasadena was

1:00:54.080 --> 1:00:58.040
<v Speaker 4>a huge, I mean a tough fucking area, it still

1:00:58.120 --> 1:01:01.280
<v Speaker 4>wasn't South Central and South Center was already branded right,

1:01:01.440 --> 1:01:05.600
<v Speaker 4>so easy I had a lock and all that, so,

1:01:06.800 --> 1:01:11.480
<v Speaker 4>you know, And and it wasn't gangster music, right, I mean,

1:01:11.520 --> 1:01:15.680
<v Speaker 4>it was more hippie music. And you know, and I

1:01:15.760 --> 1:01:17.440
<v Speaker 4>tell this to Broadway. I haven't spoken to him in

1:01:17.440 --> 1:01:19.320
<v Speaker 4>a while, but I tell the Broadway all the time,

1:01:19.800 --> 1:01:23.240
<v Speaker 4>but there was a hook in the whole Kule directly

1:01:23.280 --> 1:01:24.320
<v Speaker 4>would have been a fucking monster.

1:01:25.840 --> 1:01:26.880
<v Speaker 2>You're right, you know.

1:01:27.240 --> 1:01:30.960
<v Speaker 4>But the funny the great thing now is Koch, who

1:01:31.080 --> 1:01:33.200
<v Speaker 4>was in the group, you know, was a huge director,

1:01:33.280 --> 1:01:38.680
<v Speaker 4>now really yeah, huge movie director, like does these amazing

1:01:39.680 --> 1:01:42.080
<v Speaker 4>urban films, you know, and he you know, and he

1:01:42.280 --> 1:01:45.440
<v Speaker 4>and he finances him hisself and he just you know,

1:01:45.560 --> 1:01:47.960
<v Speaker 4>he runs the board. I mean, it's it's fucking amazing

1:01:48.000 --> 1:01:48.480
<v Speaker 4>what he's doing.

1:01:49.200 --> 1:01:51.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, then let me ask you about the alcoholics, because

1:01:51.920 --> 1:01:56.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, that was also an era of which we're

1:01:56.720 --> 1:01:59.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, we had our idea of what LA was,

1:02:00.280 --> 1:02:04.720
<v Speaker 2>and then groups like the far Side, the alcoholics, groups

1:02:04.760 --> 1:02:07.040
<v Speaker 2>like Souls and Mischief, you know up in the Bay

1:02:07.120 --> 1:02:10.080
<v Speaker 2>Area and the whole Hiro crew, like we didn't know.

1:02:10.200 --> 1:02:12.080
<v Speaker 2>It was like an anomaly. Like when we first heard

1:02:12.120 --> 1:02:16.720
<v Speaker 2>the alcoholics, were like, wait, they're from California, like this,

1:02:17.760 --> 1:02:19.560
<v Speaker 2>how did how did you come across there?

1:02:20.480 --> 1:02:24.040
<v Speaker 4>So Fade went to see he went to the studio

1:02:24.800 --> 1:02:30.680
<v Speaker 4>to see Mecca and East Swift was was there, and

1:02:31.160 --> 1:02:33.120
<v Speaker 4>ship Fade just shows up in my house like at

1:02:33.120 --> 1:02:35.680
<v Speaker 4>eleven o'clock at night, like pounding on the fucking dog.

1:02:35.880 --> 1:02:39.520
<v Speaker 4>He's like, I just found, you know, the best thing

1:02:39.600 --> 1:02:41.320
<v Speaker 4>you know since white bread, you know, and it was

1:02:41.440 --> 1:02:43.120
<v Speaker 4>just like you got to come to the studio now,

1:02:43.520 --> 1:02:45.120
<v Speaker 4>and I'm like, I'm not going. I'm not going to

1:02:45.240 --> 1:02:47.120
<v Speaker 4>the studio. I didn't believe it. To me, I didn't

1:02:47.120 --> 1:02:50.360
<v Speaker 4>really believe in the studio because I mean, I needed

1:02:50.680 --> 1:02:58.880
<v Speaker 4>only bet it happened in studios, so I was like, no, like, untrue,

1:02:59.600 --> 1:03:02.400
<v Speaker 4>they in the office in the morning. Oh whatever, And

1:03:02.680 --> 1:03:04.600
<v Speaker 4>just it was a Friday. It was a Thursday night

1:03:04.640 --> 1:03:07.520
<v Speaker 4>when he came pounding on the door and they came

1:03:07.640 --> 1:03:10.520
<v Speaker 4>up the original demo. To me, I thought they were

1:03:10.560 --> 1:03:11.320
<v Speaker 4>the next CPMD.

1:03:12.360 --> 1:03:16.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Nothing, I I can't even like, I wish I

1:03:16.280 --> 1:03:18.720
<v Speaker 2>could just bottle up. Like when you're living in it,

1:03:19.240 --> 1:03:22.400
<v Speaker 2>you just take for granted that this sort of brilliance

1:03:22.520 --> 1:03:24.440
<v Speaker 2>is just going to be the norm, so you know,

1:03:24.560 --> 1:03:26.760
<v Speaker 2>you just you don't take a time out to really

1:03:26.800 --> 1:03:30.640
<v Speaker 2>appreciate it. But yeah, nothing will ever be the feeling

1:03:30.760 --> 1:03:33.560
<v Speaker 2>of you know, I come from Philly, in which you know,

1:03:33.720 --> 1:03:39.880
<v Speaker 2>cosmic keev aj Shine just deph like basically our version

1:03:39.920 --> 1:03:44.640
<v Speaker 2>of stretching Barbido. At Drexel University would play that whole

1:03:44.760 --> 1:03:47.400
<v Speaker 2>album insanely like just on radio, and.

1:03:48.080 --> 1:03:51.640
<v Speaker 4>The West Coast loved them. But again, it wasn't NWA,

1:03:51.800 --> 1:03:55.960
<v Speaker 4>it wasn't Dre. Stupid's just coming right, so they hadn't

1:03:55.960 --> 1:03:58.680
<v Speaker 4>met I mean, Ralph did a lot of their videos.

1:03:59.640 --> 1:04:02.840
<v Speaker 2>M wait a minute, Okay, this is this is a

1:04:03.040 --> 1:04:09.240
<v Speaker 2>crazy off kilter question, but only because I'm I'm okay, yeah,

1:04:09.360 --> 1:04:12.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm working on soul Train right now to get the

1:04:12.680 --> 1:04:18.040
<v Speaker 2>Alcoholics mainstream Soul Train play, and Don's like notorious for

1:04:19.160 --> 1:04:23.600
<v Speaker 2>not like literally like I think there's I've counted three

1:04:23.800 --> 1:04:28.720
<v Speaker 2>dance lines to make Room, which is just unheard of

1:04:29.480 --> 1:04:35.120
<v Speaker 2>for like a real rap song that potent to get

1:04:36.360 --> 1:04:40.760
<v Speaker 2>like almost that level of love. I was like when

1:04:40.920 --> 1:04:45.880
<v Speaker 2>when the Alcoholics were like regularly played on Soul Train,

1:04:46.440 --> 1:04:49.400
<v Speaker 2>which a group of that level should have just been

1:04:49.600 --> 1:04:52.880
<v Speaker 2>underground status and maybe some MTV love and that sort

1:04:52.920 --> 1:04:58.600
<v Speaker 2>of thing. But no, Doctor Newi's Sarah, Really, how did

1:04:58.640 --> 1:04:59.720
<v Speaker 2>you guys pull this off?

1:05:00.440 --> 1:05:04.040
<v Speaker 4>We knew the booker and Don truly loved the record. Huh.

1:05:06.000 --> 1:05:08.640
<v Speaker 2>It's just unheard of? Is unheard of? All right? Right,

1:05:08.640 --> 1:05:09.400
<v Speaker 2>I gotta get to it.

1:05:09.600 --> 1:05:12.560
<v Speaker 4>So make Room wasn't even though they were from the

1:05:12.640 --> 1:05:15.560
<v Speaker 4>West Coast. It was a non threatening record. They didn't

1:05:15.560 --> 1:05:16.800
<v Speaker 4>really curse on the record.

1:05:17.160 --> 1:05:21.440
<v Speaker 2>I know, like so so they were humorous, they were funny,

1:05:21.800 --> 1:05:23.840
<v Speaker 2>so and was awesome.

1:05:24.320 --> 1:05:26.920
<v Speaker 5>That's what like, can I can I just ask real

1:05:27.000 --> 1:05:29.560
<v Speaker 5>quick Steve at this point, are you developing what is

1:05:29.640 --> 1:05:31.080
<v Speaker 5>the loud philosophy?

1:05:31.640 --> 1:05:34.760
<v Speaker 3>Like because you like you said you ain't deaf, jam

1:05:34.800 --> 1:05:36.480
<v Speaker 3>you ain't John. We all know this. We know we

1:05:36.680 --> 1:05:39.880
<v Speaker 3>went to loud for certain things, but like in your mind,

1:05:40.440 --> 1:05:41.560
<v Speaker 3>what is it?

1:05:42.680 --> 1:05:45.000
<v Speaker 4>So I didn't really have an a in our staff yet.

1:05:45.240 --> 1:05:50.040
<v Speaker 4>So to me, that cap was self contained. Alcoholics are

1:05:50.040 --> 1:05:52.880
<v Speaker 4>self contained, and we had we did okay with them.

1:05:53.120 --> 1:05:57.720
<v Speaker 4>Twister wasn't self contained. And you know, even though he

1:05:57.920 --> 1:06:00.760
<v Speaker 4>broke you know, we did marketing wise, we did an

1:06:00.800 --> 1:06:03.120
<v Speaker 4>amazing job. We had we flew in the guy from

1:06:03.120 --> 1:06:07.200
<v Speaker 4>the Guinness broke the world records from London and we

1:06:07.280 --> 1:06:09.960
<v Speaker 4>had we had him on MTV and behind him he was,

1:06:10.120 --> 1:06:14.080
<v Speaker 4>you know, voted the fastest rapper in the world. But really,

1:06:14.320 --> 1:06:19.480
<v Speaker 4>you know, it wasn't an amazing album. So I needed

1:06:19.560 --> 1:06:22.000
<v Speaker 4>people who could really be self contained.

1:06:22.760 --> 1:06:26.720
<v Speaker 3>Right, Okay, Right, that's the common that's the commonality.

1:06:27.080 --> 1:06:30.640
<v Speaker 4>And then from that Wu Tang self contained. Okay, my

1:06:30.840 --> 1:06:31.360
<v Speaker 4>deep self.

1:06:32.080 --> 1:06:37.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Now let me ask you we're here, knowing what

1:06:37.720 --> 1:06:42.560
<v Speaker 2>you know now, knowing what you know now, of the

1:06:42.680 --> 1:06:47.760
<v Speaker 2>past thirty years of Wu Tang ology, would you have

1:06:48.040 --> 1:06:52.880
<v Speaker 2>struck a different deal with the Riza You still would

1:06:52.920 --> 1:06:55.280
<v Speaker 2>have just given them their running papers.

1:06:55.600 --> 1:06:59.720
<v Speaker 4>I'm going to tell you what why thirty years me

1:06:59.840 --> 1:07:02.080
<v Speaker 4>and is still talk two or three times a week.

1:07:02.400 --> 1:07:06.320
<v Speaker 4>It matters, right, I will never fight over money. So

1:07:06.960 --> 1:07:10.000
<v Speaker 4>by me I was in survival mode. I needed that platque.

1:07:10.040 --> 1:07:13.120
<v Speaker 4>I needed to go down right. So when right I

1:07:13.280 --> 1:07:16.720
<v Speaker 4>met them on March third, nineteen ninety three, a day

1:07:16.760 --> 1:07:19.160
<v Speaker 4>after my thirty first birthday, I was with East Swift.

1:07:19.600 --> 1:07:22.040
<v Speaker 4>I was with East Spliff from the Alcoholics. We're in

1:07:22.160 --> 1:07:24.880
<v Speaker 4>New York. I'm in a guest office in New York

1:07:25.320 --> 1:07:29.200
<v Speaker 4>and the receptionist comes. You know, in those days, there's

1:07:29.240 --> 1:07:32.280
<v Speaker 4>no security, right, you know, we just pop up at

1:07:32.320 --> 1:07:37.720
<v Speaker 4>a record like jam okay, right right, and they said,

1:07:37.920 --> 1:07:40.240
<v Speaker 4>a Prince Racken is here. I've been trying to chase

1:07:40.320 --> 1:07:43.720
<v Speaker 4>him down since the beginning of the year. And he

1:07:43.840 --> 1:07:46.800
<v Speaker 4>shows up and it's me. He's sucking. He goes, I

1:07:46.880 --> 1:07:47.960
<v Speaker 4>have the guys downstairs.

1:07:48.400 --> 1:07:48.520
<v Speaker 2>Now.

1:07:48.560 --> 1:07:50.600
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if there are three guys, nine guys,

1:07:50.840 --> 1:07:53.000
<v Speaker 4>you know, whatever it is. But I'm in your office

1:07:53.040 --> 1:07:55.280
<v Speaker 4>as big as the fucking square on my zoom right

1:07:55.320 --> 1:07:58.000
<v Speaker 4>a second, right, and he Swift is behind me and

1:07:58.120 --> 1:08:01.560
<v Speaker 4>they perform protect You and that live to the record.

1:08:02.200 --> 1:08:06.520
<v Speaker 4>Somebody comes barging into the room and says, that's that ship.

1:08:07.280 --> 1:08:09.360
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if he was an animals set me

1:08:09.480 --> 1:08:14.680
<v Speaker 4>up right and and he left. I never saw the

1:08:14.720 --> 1:08:20.520
<v Speaker 4>guy again, but the energy in that fucking room was ridiculous.

1:08:21.280 --> 1:08:23.880
<v Speaker 4>And Riza said, this is the only way we're going

1:08:23.920 --> 1:08:25.519
<v Speaker 4>to do the deal. And I was like, you know what,

1:08:25.640 --> 1:08:28.720
<v Speaker 4>I was managing New Addition. Ralph was always threatening to leave,

1:08:29.040 --> 1:08:33.599
<v Speaker 4>and the own and the only one where the group

1:08:33.680 --> 1:08:38.200
<v Speaker 4>to me was always bigger than the BBD solo except

1:08:38.320 --> 1:08:41.920
<v Speaker 4>Michael Jackson. But even when Michael Jackson tour, when it

1:08:42.000 --> 1:08:44.200
<v Speaker 4>came time to do a Jackson Tour or the Jackson

1:08:44.200 --> 1:08:45.880
<v Speaker 4>BIB or whatever they would call that the end, they

1:08:46.000 --> 1:08:47.519
<v Speaker 4>still outed Michael's tour.

1:08:48.560 --> 1:08:52.320
<v Speaker 2>Wait a damn now, she said that I wanted to ask.

1:08:52.560 --> 1:08:56.639
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to ask because even at the Essence Festival

1:08:56.720 --> 1:08:59.880
<v Speaker 2>this year, I was like, this might be the rare

1:09:00.120 --> 1:09:06.879
<v Speaker 2>case in which Tito is more successful than Michael. How

1:09:07.040 --> 1:09:10.000
<v Speaker 2>did that? How did that affect Ralph at least during

1:09:10.080 --> 1:09:13.160
<v Speaker 2>that time? You know, I know that I don't know

1:09:13.240 --> 1:09:17.040
<v Speaker 2>when you left New Addition, but you know you were

1:09:17.080 --> 1:09:19.760
<v Speaker 2>there for heartbreaking which when when they came to you

1:09:19.840 --> 1:09:22.120
<v Speaker 2>with the idea of like, hey, we're going to do

1:09:22.160 --> 1:09:25.840
<v Speaker 2>our side project with Poison, Were you guys like whatever,

1:09:26.120 --> 1:09:29.160
<v Speaker 2>I know, No, I was already you're out, Okay, I

1:09:29.200 --> 1:09:31.040
<v Speaker 2>got but I was.

1:09:31.040 --> 1:09:32.760
<v Speaker 4>There when Mike caubbed me and said, we want to

1:09:32.760 --> 1:09:35.280
<v Speaker 4>put Johnny in the group. So you know, got it

1:09:35.400 --> 1:09:37.040
<v Speaker 4>wrapped up the leads. We have a lead singer.

1:09:38.800 --> 1:09:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay. So it was like that.

1:09:41.479 --> 1:09:44.479
<v Speaker 4>But at the end of the day, like I just

1:09:44.640 --> 1:09:46.880
<v Speaker 4>always believed the group will still always be bigger than

1:09:46.920 --> 1:09:49.439
<v Speaker 4>the whole. And the truth of the matter is he

1:09:49.640 --> 1:09:51.000
<v Speaker 4>let me still have matching rights.

1:09:51.720 --> 1:09:55.080
<v Speaker 2>But I just unprecedented. You heard method Man's voice, it

1:09:55.240 --> 1:09:56.200
<v Speaker 2>was like, I'll let you go.

1:09:56.840 --> 1:09:57.240
<v Speaker 3>So wait.

1:09:57.439 --> 1:10:00.719
<v Speaker 5>So then Steve, this was portrayed correctly and the saga

1:10:00.800 --> 1:10:03.040
<v Speaker 5>of the wolf then right, because they did this whole

1:10:03.120 --> 1:10:07.360
<v Speaker 5>process on this show, on the Hulu show you yeah, Okay.

1:10:07.960 --> 1:10:16.000
<v Speaker 4>Albums us cheap, not a lot sixty right, So how

1:10:16.040 --> 1:10:20.360
<v Speaker 4>many albums you think I sold between Wu Tang Forever

1:10:20.680 --> 1:10:21.639
<v Speaker 4>and thirty six years?

1:10:22.120 --> 1:10:26.880
<v Speaker 3>I get it, and Ray, I get it, and you're

1:10:26.920 --> 1:10:29.000
<v Speaker 3>not the bad guy. And you're not the bad guy,

1:10:29.080 --> 1:10:30.080
<v Speaker 3>like I just remember in the.

1:10:30.720 --> 1:10:33.200
<v Speaker 4>Show, and I still had the best soul.

1:10:35.040 --> 1:10:37.120
<v Speaker 2>I know, but all right, but look but look, but

1:10:37.320 --> 1:10:41.920
<v Speaker 2>again again, I'm just saying that this is lightning in

1:10:42.320 --> 1:10:46.560
<v Speaker 2>a bottle. You literally have super friends. And yes, I

1:10:46.680 --> 1:10:50.559
<v Speaker 2>agree that when when the smoke is cleared, the Cuban

1:10:50.680 --> 1:10:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Links is probably I almost feel like I yes, I

1:10:56.120 --> 1:10:58.760
<v Speaker 2>know that we can't say anything bad about Into the

1:10:58.800 --> 1:11:02.680
<v Speaker 2>Wu Tang, but for me, like Cuba Links is the

1:11:02.840 --> 1:11:05.080
<v Speaker 2>pinnacle Wu Tang project.

1:11:05.479 --> 1:11:09.559
<v Speaker 4>Oh, everybody agrees that should have been this second album.

1:11:09.840 --> 1:11:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Part of me wasn't a little bit greedy, like, ah,

1:11:12.600 --> 1:11:15.800
<v Speaker 2>let me take Dirty or at least get method Man.

1:11:15.880 --> 1:11:18.800
<v Speaker 4>First of all, Dirty was already signed. But but but

1:11:19.040 --> 1:11:22.240
<v Speaker 4>but this is this is where my head's at and

1:11:22.680 --> 1:11:26.320
<v Speaker 4>this is my thing. I still made money, right because

1:11:26.360 --> 1:11:28.920
<v Speaker 4>when Dirty was signed to Electra, I still had the

1:11:28.960 --> 1:11:33.760
<v Speaker 4>marketing company. Electra paid me triple what I normally got get,

1:11:33.840 --> 1:11:37.120
<v Speaker 4>then paid me triple do what I normally got, right,

1:11:37.400 --> 1:11:41.000
<v Speaker 4>So I was good And like I said, I'm not

1:11:41.080 --> 1:11:44.720
<v Speaker 4>going to fight over money and I'm not greedy, right,

1:11:45.080 --> 1:11:48.360
<v Speaker 4>So I did okay, and I feel I won and

1:11:48.520 --> 1:11:51.240
<v Speaker 4>it made loud what it was, and it gave me

1:11:51.360 --> 1:11:54.640
<v Speaker 4>the reputation that the artist came first. You forget. I

1:11:54.680 --> 1:11:56.360
<v Speaker 4>also got arrested fighting for them.

1:11:57.880 --> 1:11:58.639
<v Speaker 2>WHOA what happened?

1:11:58.720 --> 1:12:00.719
<v Speaker 3>Wait, I'm remember I remember discounts some millions.

1:12:01.280 --> 1:12:07.240
<v Speaker 4>So renegotiating raised first album, Cuban Links and Mutang's second

1:12:07.840 --> 1:12:11.800
<v Speaker 4>deal and second album. They came in to renegotiate and

1:12:13.320 --> 1:12:16.200
<v Speaker 4>I'm supposed to be an RCAA side. But before that

1:12:16.320 --> 1:12:20.080
<v Speaker 4>even happened me, his lawyers and my attorney, they came in.

1:12:21.160 --> 1:12:26.479
<v Speaker 4>We came in and we're going to we're going to

1:12:26.560 --> 1:12:29.280
<v Speaker 4>do this together. I haven't gotten paid yet. I'm making

1:12:29.320 --> 1:12:31.439
<v Speaker 4>my money through the market company, right, you know. We

1:12:31.960 --> 1:12:34.599
<v Speaker 4>we're like a million and a half records. So now

1:12:34.840 --> 1:12:40.599
<v Speaker 4>and the business affairs she was a woman is holding

1:12:40.680 --> 1:12:44.920
<v Speaker 4>still for twenty thousand dollars, and I'm like, and bring

1:12:45.040 --> 1:12:47.439
<v Speaker 4>the pain is blowing the fuck up. And I'm like,

1:12:48.479 --> 1:12:50.439
<v Speaker 4>just give him the twenty thousand dollars and I'll write

1:12:50.479 --> 1:12:52.720
<v Speaker 4>a fucking check. Like I'll figure a way to get

1:12:52.760 --> 1:12:54.800
<v Speaker 4>him to twenty thousand dollars. I never hit a woman

1:12:54.840 --> 1:12:56.800
<v Speaker 4>in my life to this day, you know. All right,

1:12:57.439 --> 1:13:00.240
<v Speaker 4>But she says, go fuck yourself, Steve Kin one in

1:13:00.280 --> 1:13:03.479
<v Speaker 4>the thirty six floor conferencey, I take this chair and

1:13:03.520 --> 1:13:06.519
<v Speaker 4>I'm ready to throw the chair through that window. That's

1:13:06.560 --> 1:13:08.479
<v Speaker 4>going to break the window and it's going to land

1:13:08.560 --> 1:13:11.680
<v Speaker 4>on somebody on Broadway. I catched the chair. I just

1:13:11.760 --> 1:13:14.320
<v Speaker 4>lookate my thumb. I turn around and I throw it

1:13:14.400 --> 1:13:20.679
<v Speaker 4>through the glass door in the lobby and they called

1:13:20.720 --> 1:13:23.479
<v Speaker 4>the cops. Cops came the rest of me. It was

1:13:23.520 --> 1:13:26.519
<v Speaker 4>a Friday. I just found out I was having my

1:13:26.600 --> 1:13:33.840
<v Speaker 4>first child three days before that, and damn, that's it

1:13:33.960 --> 1:13:36.840
<v Speaker 4>was intense, right, I didn't there was no email, so

1:13:37.160 --> 1:13:42.559
<v Speaker 4>this was literally I sent them a voicemail. I sent

1:13:42.640 --> 1:13:46.640
<v Speaker 4>them a call. I was in Florida for Thanksgiving and

1:13:46.800 --> 1:13:48.599
<v Speaker 4>met the man. Just did one hundred and twenty thousand

1:13:48.680 --> 1:13:55.120
<v Speaker 4>first week. No, you know, like those numbers were crazy,

1:13:55.160 --> 1:13:57.759
<v Speaker 4>as like you just fucked yourself, like and Reson wouldn't

1:13:57.760 --> 1:14:02.400
<v Speaker 4>sign the deal yet until you know, and I went

1:14:02.439 --> 1:14:08.519
<v Speaker 4>off and it just created a war between me and BMG.

1:14:09.240 --> 1:14:13.840
<v Speaker 4>But the thing was, Rizzi says, don't worry, we're going

1:14:13.920 --> 1:14:17.200
<v Speaker 4>to come back in in February and we're gonna take

1:14:17.240 --> 1:14:20.840
<v Speaker 4>up at every fuckpenny they had. And they ended up

1:14:20.880 --> 1:14:25.080
<v Speaker 4>getting a new CEO and a new president, and we

1:14:25.200 --> 1:14:26.799
<v Speaker 4>came in and we put him in a fucking headlock.

1:14:27.280 --> 1:14:29.880
<v Speaker 4>It's just that we took him for every fucking penny

1:14:29.920 --> 1:14:30.240
<v Speaker 4>they had.

1:14:32.040 --> 1:14:34.200
<v Speaker 6>What up Quols Famous is Unpaid Bill, What Paul Is?

1:14:34.240 --> 1:14:34.559
<v Speaker 2>Part one?

1:14:34.640 --> 1:14:35.240
<v Speaker 4>Right Here for Now is.

1:14:35.280 --> 1:14:37.200
<v Speaker 6>This episode covers a lot of ground. Come back next

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<v Speaker 6>week a part two where Steve Rifton talks about just

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<v Speaker 6>how much you wanted to sign Acon, Tommy put hands

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<v Speaker 6>on a certain film mogul and It's new venture. We

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<v Speaker 6>had fun recording this episode and I hope you're into

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<v Speaker 6>it too.

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<v Speaker 1>What's Up Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For

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<v Speaker 1>more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

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<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.