1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: M h Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan. I don't use 2 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: the word carnage with great frequency, but I gotta say 3 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: what has occurred up in Moscow, Ottaho is beyond belief. 4 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: That you've got four college students that were at various 5 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: stages in a college career. They were living life, they 6 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: were achieving those goals, and they were about to cresh 7 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: that hill into full own adulthood. But their life, their 8 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: lives ended at the hands of what can only be 9 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: described as a monster. Today we're going to talk about 10 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: a quadruple homicide by sharp fource injury. I chose to 11 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is bodybags. I'm so glad to 12 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: have with me today, my friend Jackie Howard. Jackie, I 13 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what to say. I really don't. I'm 14 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: a college professor when this happened, when when this has 15 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: been occurred, all I could do was think about my students. 16 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: I'm I've been having a hard time dealing with this 17 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: as a professor all week long, thinking about my kids 18 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: at my school. I'm thinking about my child right now. 19 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: One of my children's in college, and I can only 20 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: imagine the parents of these poor, poor kids what they're 21 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: going through like students right now, I'm I'm away, I'm 22 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: away from class, and I felt it so that Jackie, 23 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: you and I need to have a chat as soon 24 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: as we possibly could about this case. Well, we both 25 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: did indeed plan some time off, but you're right, this 26 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: is really important to address what is going on because 27 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: there's so much to discuss. So before we even get 28 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: inside and talk about the tremendous, horrendous scene that officers found, 29 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: let's talk about the outside scene. And here's why I 30 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: want to start there. There's been a lot of criticism 31 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,399 Speaker 1: of the police because when you look at the photos 32 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: of all the police cars at the home, they are 33 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: right up on the scene. The tape is not there yet, 34 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: but there's cop cars everywhere. And I've learned from you 35 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 1: that you have to cordon off the scene because you 36 00:02:53,919 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 1: don't know what information that you're damaging, what evidence that 37 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: you're damaging. But the fact of the matter is, Joe, 38 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: that when these four individuals were found by a friend, 39 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: at first, the police didn't know what they were walking 40 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: into because they were responding to a call for an 41 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: unresponsive individual, so they had no idea that they were 42 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: looking at a crime scene. Yeah, and let's face it, 43 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,839 Speaker 1: this is a small town, and I don't mean that 44 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: in a disrespecting way. That's a great thing. I love 45 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: small towns. I live in a small town, but when 46 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: the college kids aren't there, there's a very tiny population 47 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: there that occupies the space. And so an event like this, 48 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: who who would even anticipate that something like this would 49 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: happen in this little town. Nobody would, you know. It's 50 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: a reminder that this kind of evil can be business 51 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: on anybody's store step anywhere at any time, and right 52 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: now they're they're fully aware of it when when they 53 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: rolled up, when the police rolled up, they thought that 54 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: they were coming out to an individual that had been 55 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: found unresponsive or unconscious. We're still not sure at this 56 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: moment time about the exact verbiage in this case, but 57 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: we do know that when the police entered that residents, 58 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: they found something that was just just mind blowing. As 59 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: you go into a scene as a death investigator, it's 60 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: one thing because you kind of know how the uniform 61 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: officers there there and they're saying, Okay, this is what 62 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: we saw when we walked into the residents, So you're 63 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: kind of prepared for it as a as an investigator. 64 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: That's not who we're talking about. We're talking about the 65 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: uniform response personnel. When they show up. They're the ones 66 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: that are actually discovering these issues. They're the ones that 67 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: are actually discovering what's going on. They don't know what 68 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: they're walking into and this would have been a chaotic 69 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: environment because they don't understand. And I can only imagine 70 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: the traffic on the radio at that point in time, 71 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: they're saying on know, we we've got multiple people down 72 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: at the scene, and so the area is gonna be 73 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: flooded with cars, responding vehicles, uniform beat officers. You've got 74 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: locals that are showing up. You've probably got the Sheriff's 75 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: office that showing up. You might even have campus police 76 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: that are rolling over to this location. So that's one 77 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: of the reasons you see all of those cars there. 78 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: And you know, Jackie, you're right, I mean, you have 79 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: to you have to set things up so it is secure. 80 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: Remember this, and this is kind of the watch the 81 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: watch phrase that I use. You can always contract a scene. 82 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: That means you can always draw it in, but you 83 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: have to set that perimeter up out as far away 84 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: from where the actual crime or the event took place, 85 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: and set that perimeter up so that as time goes by, 86 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: if you need to try to draw it in and 87 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: contract it. The problem is is that if you start 88 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: off small and you set up tape immediately adjacent to 89 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,119 Speaker 1: where the event happened, than all of the peripheral area 90 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: that's out there that probably should be part of the 91 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: crime scene winds up being contaminated and you can't justify 92 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: that in the courtroom. So you set it up big 93 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: and then you contracted, and that's not what happened. Apparently, 94 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: the supposition is that the front door was not necessarily 95 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: the entry point because there are sliding glass doors around 96 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: the side of the house, and many people believe that 97 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: that could have been the entryway. How many of us 98 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: that have sliding glass doors. You know, when you go 99 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: to actually a lock, that is you turn a lock 100 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: on a door knob, that's something that you physically do. 101 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: I think that we associate that with with a door 102 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: knob where you have a center turn on the door knob, 103 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: or if you have an adjacent deadlock where you take 104 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: it and you turn it and it drops into place, 105 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: that's something that you you kind of think about. But 106 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: with sliding glass doors, there's many times where people forget 107 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,679 Speaker 1: to actually go behind a lock. And we're talking about 108 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: college kids here, not that that's necessarily a justification for it, 109 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: but there's a lot of traffic in and out of 110 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: this area. The place is known the residents is actually 111 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: known as a place where kids gather, and why not. 112 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: It's it's kind of a cool home. It's off campus. 113 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: You enter actually kind of the living space what I 114 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: think most people would kind of term it's kind of 115 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: a family area where there's a TV and all of 116 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: the kind of a commons area. And that is a 117 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: big open space that leads into the kitchen and so 118 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: all of this can be seen. You can see a 119 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: big bank of windows, all of that sort of thing, 120 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: and that is directly accessed by these sliding glass doors. 121 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: The area that actually the people keep talking about with 122 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: a keypad that's down below. Okay, that's down below. It's 123 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: in the parking area, which is really some people call 124 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: it the front, some people have called it the back, 125 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: but it's it's right where cars can pull up and 126 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: it has an access keypad where if you know the number, 127 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: you can punch it in and the door lock deactivates, 128 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: you can open the door. Some of the things that 129 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: we're hearing is that a lot of people knew what 130 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: that code was to get into that door. And that's 131 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: troubling on one level as well. Two points of entry 132 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: only that narrows down what the police investigators have to 133 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: look at the entry point. You're talking about this bank 134 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: of windows, What does that tell you? What opportunity does 135 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: that give a perpetrator? And have we heard anything about 136 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: any windows being jimmied or anything like that? So far? 137 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: I haven't heard anything about windows being jimmied, And a 138 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: matter of fact, I haven't heard anything about fourth century either. 139 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: And you know, you and I talked so much, Jackie, 140 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: that we begin to talk about these things. That's one 141 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: of things we look for. Fourth century. There's anything crushed 142 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: in broken signs that the door has been pride in 143 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: some way, or somebody tried to kick the hinges off, 144 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: if you will. There's no evidence of that to this point. 145 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: But the curious thing about this is that when you 146 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: look at that entrance where the big windows are, the 147 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: sliding glass doors, there's kind of a I don't want 148 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 1: to call it a plane, but there's kind of a lot. 149 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: The lot kind of kind of increases in elevation slightly. 150 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: It looks like as it rises to the rear of 151 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: the back of the lot and there's a woodline over 152 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: to the left. It would have been a perfect location 153 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: for somebody that had targeted this home to be able 154 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: to stand back there in the dead of night, because 155 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: they believe this happened under cover of darkness, and be 156 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: able to see into those windows from that perspective, and 157 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: the people inside the house they wouldn't have known. They 158 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: would not have known that anyone was out there, because 159 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: what do you do at night, Well, you're not bumping 160 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: around the dark. You're gonna have your interior lights on. 161 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: And guess what happens when you turn interior lights on 162 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,599 Speaker 1: and house and it's dark outside, you can't see anything outside. 163 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: If you want to be able to see as best 164 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: you can in the dark, you have to turn off 165 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: your internal lights and you can generally get a better 166 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 1: view out the window, but it's still going to be 167 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:18,199 Speaker 1: diminished because there's no ambient light from the sun. If 168 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: there's a full moon, you might be able to see 169 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: a little bit, but still even that it's compromised. And 170 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: you know, I think that probably investigators are looking at that, 171 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: they'll be looking a couple of things. What kind of 172 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: man made light sources are there where there are any 173 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: kind of flood lights on the outside of the house, 174 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: where there are any visible street lights where you could 175 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: see from that perspective, Was there a place adjacent in 176 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: that woodline that's going to be as you're looking out 177 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: the window in the house over to the left, is 178 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: there any place that appears to have been trampled down 179 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 1: where somebody had been standing there for a while, kind 180 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: of stopping down the vegetation around there. Maybe they had 181 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: left something behind as they were watching in the middle 182 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: of seeing through the windows. And so once that light 183 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: goes off inside the house and it's you know, in 184 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: the early morning hours, they know they're free and clear. 185 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: They can walk on through that that sliding glass door. 186 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: Maybe the door was left unlocked, who knows. I'm thinking 187 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: back to my career right now, and there's a moment 188 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: time when you're walking up to a house where just 189 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: total mayhem as ensued and you've been told that it is, 190 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: and you're outside of that home and you're looking at 191 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: the exterior of it, and nothing seems in disarray. Nothing 192 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: seems in disorder, but when you finally walk through that door, 193 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: it's like you're walking through a portal to hell. And 194 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: I think that that's probably based upon what I've heard, 195 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: I think that's probably what the investigators saw. I think 196 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people are also interested in what the 197 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: two surviving roommates saw, and a lot of people are 198 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: asking questions about the two roommates who survived. We know 199 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: they came in around one o'clock, and uh, the other 200 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: victims also came in around One of the victims was 201 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: on the phone with her boyfriend or talking making calls 202 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: rather to her boyfriend between two thirty and three to 203 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: thirty and like to fifty two and two of the 204 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: victims were seen at a bar earlier. Two of the 205 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: victims went to a fraternity party. A couple of them 206 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: also went to the food truck. The victims were distributed 207 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: among the second and third floor there sir viving roommates 208 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: were on the first floor. This appears to be a 209 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: split level, so it's possible that whoever came in to 210 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: do this did not know that the other victims were 211 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 1: in the lower level. So when the perpetrator comes in, 212 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 1: we don't know yet who was stabbed first, and stabbed 213 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,719 Speaker 1: as the prerogative word, because that is what we are 214 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: learning from the corner and from the police. We heard 215 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: early on that this was an edged weapon. We've heard 216 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: a couple of things about this weapon. Let's kind of 217 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: start with that it had put forth that the investigators 218 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,599 Speaker 1: the authorities were looking for what they termed as a 219 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: military style knife. I even heard somebody say that they 220 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: were looking for a Rambo style knife. Well, Rambo style 221 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: all knife is is what's referred to as a survival knife. 222 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: It's generally got a very long blade on it. There's 223 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: a saw generally on the on the spine of the blade, 224 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: that is the blunted side of the blade, single edge blade. 225 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: With a survival knife, you've got a cap on the 226 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: on the handle of it. That's generally got a compass 227 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: on it. There's stuff that you can store in there, 228 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: like waterproof matches and all that, and it has a hilt. 229 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: But then something new came to light. I started here 230 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: in the term cabar. Cabar is a knife that our 231 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: marines have used since World War Two. Essentially, I might 232 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: be wrong. I think it came about in word two, 233 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: or just prior to War two. It's got a handle 234 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: on it that was originally textured with leather that is 235 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: really roughed up. And this thing is very durable and 236 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: kind of like what's referred to as a survival knife. 237 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: The Marines care this night because the blade is very robust, 238 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: it's single edged, and on the back side of it 239 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: there is there are rather salt teeth so that you 240 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: can flip it over and use it to saw down 241 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: small sapplings with to use out in the bush and 242 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: that sort of thing, and it's it's perfect at least 243 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: for the Marines for hand to hand combat using edged weapons. 244 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: You can buy them pretty much nowadays anywhere. You can 245 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: go online and buy k bars all this sort of thing. 246 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: But I found it interesting they were saying, cabar, the 247 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: dimensions of it are very specific and when the investigators 248 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: would have been looking at these injuries if they could 249 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: see them, because many times, when you got two scenes 250 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: and you have stab wounds, you can't make heather tails 251 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: of what you have. You just know you have a 252 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: lot of blood and by the time the investigators would 253 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: have made it to the scene, the blood would have 254 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: begun to dry, so it's going to be kind of 255 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: obscuring any of these injuries that may occurred, So that 256 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: term cabar may have a is and after the bodies 257 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: had been cleaned and examined, It's hard to say at 258 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: this point, but what I do know is that a 259 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: cabar has what's called a hilt on it, which is 260 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: the guard that separates the handle from the blade. And 261 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: I'll be very interested to try to find this out, Jackie. 262 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: When you take a knife that has this hilt guard 263 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: on it and you drive it in to a subject, 264 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: you can sustain what are referred to as hilt injuries. 265 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: And just imagine the blade kind of passing through the 266 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: tissue down into the tissue and then the hilt itself. 267 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: This guard creates a contusion. It will be almost rectangular 268 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: in shape, and it's associated with the stab one, so 269 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: you'll have the same kind of stamped and superimposed on 270 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: top of the stab one. It's kind of a complex 271 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: injury when you begin to think about it, and that 272 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: would give them an idea of what kind of blade 273 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: they were looking for, because there are knives out there. 274 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: If you pick up a like butcher knife in the kitchen, 275 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: it doesn't have a hilt guard on it. Okay, something 276 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: that's blunted like that that can create a contusion. It's 277 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,959 Speaker 1: just the blade essentially disappears into the handle, all right. 278 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: But with this it's something totally different. So I'd have 279 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: to ask that question. Why are they saying that this 280 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: is a military style knife? They say Rambo style knife, 281 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: they say k bar, So that's very specific, very specific information. 282 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: That's the first thing that we would think about relative 283 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: to these injuries, and it would be a specific type 284 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: of person I think that would own one of these, 285 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: a person that obviously would feel comfortable with a knife 286 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: such as this, a military style knife. Maybe they know 287 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: how to use it. They certainly knew how to use 288 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: it on this night because they robbed these four young 289 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: people of their lives with it. Assuming that they use 290 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: this weapon over and over and over and over again. 291 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: What I find interesting is the fact that in using 292 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: this style of weapon, it tells me that it probably 293 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: was a targeted attack because somebody had to bring that 294 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: weapon with them. You are absolutely spot on the money. 295 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: This is not something though they could have. This is 296 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: not something that I would expect these college kids to 297 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: have laying around the house. You know the mail that 298 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: was there was there visiting. He was not a permanent resident. Okay. 299 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: So someone telling me that these college women that lived 300 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 1: in this house possessed a military style and I, you're 301 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: gonna have to sell that to me. I'm not buying it. 302 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: I think that whoever showed up showed up prepared. Again, 303 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: like we talked about, this goes to this element of premeditation. 304 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: You're prepared to your worst when you show up, you're 305 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: prepared to take somebody's life. That means that you brought 306 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: a deadly weapon into the home of these college women. 307 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: Wine world, you would show up to their home with 308 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: the military style knife, I have no idea other than 309 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: to do great harm. And of course the wound up 310 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: doing that and brought it with them. Many times, when 311 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: you work domestic cases, in particular, when you have individuals 312 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: that are having disagreements in a familiar setting, that's sort 313 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: of thing you'll I've walked into kitchens before where you'll 314 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: see the drawers all pulled out right and you can 315 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: tell that someone was in a fever looking for something 316 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 1: to do harm to somebody with. And you'll see I've 317 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: seen drawers of silverware just dumped out on the floor. 318 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: I've seen people use butter knives and cheap steak knives. 319 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: I've seen people use pile at knives. I've seen people 320 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: use butchering knives, a variety of different things whatever, And 321 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: those are what we refer to in forensics and in 322 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: investigations as weapons of convenience. That means that they're within 323 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: arms reach. Okay, that's not what we're talking about here. 324 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: We're talking about a weapon that if it is a 325 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: military style weapon that is created for the express purpose 326 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: of killing. That's what this weapon is for, make no 327 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: bones about it, all right. And so it was used 328 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,479 Speaker 1: by the individual I think that I felt very comfortable 329 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: with it, may have had some skill with it, has 330 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: probably been carrying it around. And I've heard somebody mentioned 331 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: this along the way, and I find this quite interesting, 332 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: the fact that I don't believe that this is a 333 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: weapon that they would have thrown away after they used 334 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: it because they feel comfortable with it. Carpenter uses a 335 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: particular type of hammer to do their job with. Musician 336 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: uses a guitar they like, Well, this person is a 337 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: vicious homicidal maniac. This is something, this instrumentality of death 338 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: that they have that they have chosen that they like 339 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: to use and they're not going to separate themselves from it. 340 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: What would you find given that we have four victims stabbed. 341 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: Somebody had to be the first, how do we tell 342 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 1: and what are we going to find on the other victims? 343 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: Sequencing is something that's going to be I think very 344 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: important here as this case continues to be investigated and 345 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: and examined and processed. Okay, and that's a question that 346 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people want to know because they're in 347 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: if you if you have one of the four victims 348 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: in this case that was the target, it would be 349 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 1: very important to try to understand who sustained the most injuries, 350 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: because you would think that the targeted individual would be 351 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: that individual that would have possibly sustained the most trauma, 352 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: other than maybe somebody that fought back. Now, how do 353 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: you sequence this event? And when we're talking about sequence, 354 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: we're talking about the order of death. I'm not talking 355 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: about like the sequencing of the injuries on an individual, 356 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: because contrary to what people think, that's not something that 357 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: we can do. Even the most highly skilled forensic pathologists 358 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: that gets on the stand and testifies, they will always 359 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: have this disclosure they'll say, like, if I've got twelve 360 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: injuries on a body in their report, they'll say, please 361 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: note the number of these injuries is merely a number. 362 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: It's an identifier. It does not in any way imply 363 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: the sequence in which these injuries were administered. Now we 364 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: can tell postmortum and anti mortalm many times something will 365 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: have hemorrhage and something won't. But here what we're talking 366 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: about with the sequencing of the deaths of these young 367 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: people is we're trying to determine who will stabbed first her. 368 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: The d A actually make a statement as they're interviewing 369 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: this gentleman as he's walking away from seeing he actually 370 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: went on this on this and I'm paraphrasing here, but 371 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: he was like, I don't know that I could you 372 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: really begin to describe what's what happened in there. It's horrible, 373 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: absolutely horrible. There's gonna be a lot of blood, a 374 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of blood at this scene. Whoever did this, 375 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: it's going to be would have been covered in blood. 376 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: It will be from four separate people. And that's the 377 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: key to try and to figure this out. From a 378 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: scientific standpoint, we talk a lot about DNA and we 379 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: talk a lot about blood typing this sort of thing 380 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: on body bags. But this is very important in this 381 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: case because in my estimation, at least whoever was attacked 382 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: first in this case will have possibly none of the 383 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: other victims d n A on them or their their 384 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: blood will not be come ingold with the other victims. 385 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: And this is just it's we're merely applying logic here. 386 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: So as the progression takes place, that you have victim A, 387 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: and we don't know who Victim A is, they're attacked, 388 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: they're killed. Well, going back to the knife, we assume 389 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: that that same knife is the same instrument that is 390 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: being used in all of these deaths. Once that knife 391 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: is withdrawn from this first victim, the next victim is attacked. Now, 392 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: the DNA, the blood sample, if you will, from the 393 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: first victim, will be introduced into the space of the 394 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: second victim, and for lack of a better term, that 395 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: second victim will literally be inoculated with the blood of 396 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: the other person. And this progresses so that you get 397 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: this kind of increasing event of co mingling of biological 398 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: material where you'll have victim a's DNA on Victim B, 399 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: and then with victim C you'll find A and B. 400 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: Perhaps on C and then on D you'll find all 401 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: of the three. Depended upon how well this trace evidence 402 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: is collected and how detailed the testing is, how thorough 403 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: the testing is, and it it will take some time. 404 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: People want quick answers when it comes to DNA, and 405 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: they can turn it around pretty quickly. However, when you 406 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: have this commingling of the d N A, it's a 407 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: bit more of a technical undertaking. You have to have 408 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: the right skill set in order to facilitate this, to 409 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: try to separate out these various types, these various blood types, 410 00:25:46,520 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: and try to harvest DNA from these locations. Yeah, there 411 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: are many times on scenes when you you walk into 412 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: this environment and it is total chaos. But as an investigator, 413 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: as forensic scientists, that's where you get paid that it's 414 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: your job to make sense of the chaos. It has 415 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 1: to be dug out from either those that you're interviewing, 416 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: those observations that you're making, or even scientific tests that 417 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: you're running. It takes time. This is not an instant 418 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: cake mix. This is something that takes time. It takes dedication, 419 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 1: and it takes precision. Well, making sense out of chaos 420 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: is exactly what you're doing, because I am trying to 421 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: imagine as a crime scene investigator coming in and having 422 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: a body that has I don't know, let's just say 423 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: four establish and this would be let's say it's our 424 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: third victim. And you're talking about you mentioned a minute 425 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 1: ago about the co mingling of blood, But how does 426 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: that work if the two upper stab wounds were first, 427 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: are you still going to get somebody else's DNA or 428 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 1: blood in the third wound? And how much blood does 429 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: it take to be able to prove that there was 430 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: co mingling? I mean, is it doesn't automatically? If you 431 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: have I don't know, four tablespoons blood and you have 432 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 1: one drop, is it gonna show up in all four 433 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: table spoons? Do you understand what I'm asking? Yeah? It 434 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: is mind boggling, And listen, there's no guarantee with it. 435 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: I'm being hopeful when I say that, I mean I 436 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: truly am being hopeful because it is such a mess. 437 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: It's one thing to find com mingled blood stains, okay, 438 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: or or blood sample. Is it going to be so 439 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: cross contaminated though, that it'll be ruined where they're not 440 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: able to separate it out sufficiently in order to well 441 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: certainly do DNA on it. With the commingling of the blood, 442 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: we've got our our a BO groups, and then we 443 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: have to determine relative to the antigen if it's positive 444 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: or negative. So if you have a B pause or 445 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: a B nag or O pause or non eg B 446 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: negg be pause, oh neg o pause, you're going to 447 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: have all of these blood samples that could potentially be mixed. 448 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: But when you're talking about a stabbing, multiple stabbing with 449 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: multiple victims, it's such a dynamic environment. We don't know 450 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: what the actions of the perpetrator were either. For all 451 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: we know, this individual may have taken a knife blade 452 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: and run it across the area of his pants along 453 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: the thigh to try to wipe away the blood before 454 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: he went to the next person and stabbed. For all 455 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: we know, the knife from one victim was dripping blood. 456 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: They went over in a really started attacking the other 457 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: one and brought about their death. They are going to 458 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: have a hercue lean task to be able to try 459 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: to separate this out, and it's going to take time 460 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,959 Speaker 1: in order to do it, just to get the groupings right, 461 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: I think, and to be able to establish d NA 462 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: is is. Then that's another part of the task as well. 463 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: Will it be so cross contaminated that they might have difficulty? However, 464 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: the saving grace here, I think from just a demonstrative standpoint, 465 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: is that they will be able to perhaps say that 466 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: there are these grouping or blood groupings present on each 467 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: of the bodies, and so you can tie that back 468 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: to one individual perhaps it did this, particularly if they 469 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: can come across that subject close, which are going to 470 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: be very important in this case, because they'll have, like 471 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: I said, have been a bloody mess. Did they keep 472 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: those closed, did they burn those clothes, do they have 473 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: them hidden back somewhere, or did they just discard them 474 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: as they were going down the road? You know, that 475 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: was another issue. Remember that came up about the garbage. 476 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: Remember that they were talking about how there's a chance 477 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: that they didn't look through the garbage effectively, or that 478 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: it wasn't sought out route that the trucks may take. 479 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: And that's key here, because you know, trash trucks have 480 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: a specific location that they kind of make stops at, 481 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: pick up the dumpsters, dump them, and then that garbage 482 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: is taken to a specific location in a landfill. Well, 483 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: did they miss their target with that? Was that not 484 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: something that they thought about, because for all we know, 485 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: that individual may have dumped their clothes into a dumpster 486 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: immediately adjacent to that. Hopefully the knife hasn't gone because 487 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: I still think this person probably held onto it. If 488 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: that knife is still available, then it's going to have 489 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: trace amounts and you can try to clean this thing 490 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: as best you want to, but they always miss something. 491 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: And wouldn't that be interesting if you find on that 492 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: knife and this individual still has it with them, and 493 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: you can find evidence from all four of the victims 494 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: on that knife, maybe isolated patches of DNA on the 495 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: handle or maybe on that hilt guard that we mentioned, 496 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: Because there's all kinds of little nooks and crannies that 497 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't think about. That the DNA 498 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: and the trace evidence, people can go in and sample 499 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: those areas and retrieve that evidence from there. Besides the 500 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: stab wounds, what other kind of injuries could you expect? 501 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: The information released by the corner in the case says 502 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: that some of the victims, while most were thought to 503 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: be sleep when they stabbings began, some of the victims 504 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: had defensive wounds. So we're looking at bruising, we're looking 505 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: at what when you have a defensive event. First off, 506 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: that goes to awareness, doesn't it. We're not talking about 507 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: an individual that was merely stabbed and they died. We're 508 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: talking about a person who was stabbed and then oh 509 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: my gosh, there's an awareness I'm being injured. They awake 510 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: and they raise their arms, they lift their arms, and 511 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: with these defensive injuries, and of course knife injuries are 512 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: some of the most horrific things you can see when 513 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: it comes to eventsive events. Most of the time, we 514 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: have a natural inclination with our arms to block, will 515 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: raise our forearm. Generally our fist will be bawled up, 516 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: will raise our forearm in order to block or maybe 517 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: sweep sweep with our hands. Well, lots of times what 518 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: can happen is that the knife blade. I've had knife 519 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: blades that have passed through the hands of victims held 520 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: their hand up, they were staffed through the hand. I've 521 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: had glancing blows that almost looked like a shaving of tissue, 522 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: where you'll have these really nasty kind of gashes that 523 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: take place. And you said something interesting, Jackie, just second ago, 524 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: when you said bruises, So you can get associated contusions 525 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: as well, because I understand that when a person is 526 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: wielding a knife, not only can they bring about sharp 527 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: force injuries, but they can bring about blunt force injuries 528 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: as well, which are associated with contusions. Many times because 529 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: their fist is bawled up around this metal object and 530 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: they'll punch with that in their hands sometimes, which makes 531 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: a very devastating injury. And you'll see that, particularly if 532 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: an individual is trying to fend them off, they'll punch 533 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: with a knife in their hand. You can get bruising 534 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: on an individual. Of course, if the victim is bruised, 535 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: you'll know that this was an anti warmar prior to 536 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: death event that occurred while they're in the throes of 537 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: these fatal events that are going down at that moment. 538 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: So you'll have all of those kinds of events that 539 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: will happen. I've seen people that have had broken bones 540 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: as a result of defensive injuries abrasions. You can get 541 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: those which are scrapes where they're fending off and this 542 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: is very frenetic. You know, a lot of movement with hands, 543 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: a lot of twisting and turning because let's all think 544 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: about it. Most people don't want to sit back and 545 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: receive any kind of pain. You want to try to 546 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 1: try to shield your body away from it, and so 547 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 1: you can get defensive injuries. For instance, if they roll over, 548 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: you can see a defensive injury on the shoulder, and 549 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: it's kind of a guard position where you go in 550 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,720 Speaker 1: and you you you tuck essentially into almost a fetal 551 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: position many times, and you'll see these stab winds that 552 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: present maybe more on the lateral chest, on the side 553 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: of the chest. And then if they roll over, of 554 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: course they'll be anteriorly as well, so you'll have this distribution. 555 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: One interesting thing though, is I believe that the corner 556 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,720 Speaker 1: was asked specifically about these injuries, and if I remember, 557 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: the reporter had actually asked, was there any slashing the 558 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 1: neck or the face, and the corner said no, that 559 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: these were essentially concentrate in the chest of these individuals 560 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 1: and that some are one of them not really sure, 561 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: did in fact have defensive injuries. As the police continue 562 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: this investigation looking for the perpetrator, they're asking for people 563 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: to look at their cameras, any surveillance, So what are 564 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: I mean? Obviously they would love if the guy just 565 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: walked mind and was like, oh big sign that says 566 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: I did it not gonna happen, of course, But what 567 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: exactly are they looking for? Someone who followed the girls 568 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: when they went to the food truck, someone who might 569 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: have been outside the home, I mean, ring door bell. 570 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,399 Speaker 1: What what other kind of surveillance is there? I heard 571 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 1: somebody actually mentioned Tesla's, which I don't know a lot 572 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: about Tesla's, but apparently Tesla's are filming or have cameras 573 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 1: on them. I found that kind of interesting. One of 574 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: the spokespeople had gotten up at one of the pressers. 575 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: But aside from that, there's something else that we need 576 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: to mention from a physical coal standpoint here the folks 577 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: need to think about at autopsy. Let me tell you 578 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: what they did with these victims. They did nail scrapings 579 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: and nail clippings on all of these victims. And remember 580 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,399 Speaker 1: we were talking about defensive injuries just a moment ago. 581 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: One of the things that happened many times with these 582 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 1: perpetrators that this is very up close and personal. It's 583 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: very intimate, and as they're attacking an individual and the 584 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: victim is trying to fend them off, the victim will 585 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: scratch these individuals just trying or pinch them or grab 586 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: hold of their hair, and the perpetrator will actually have 587 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: injuries to them. And one of the things that people, 588 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: I think from my perspective as a forensic science guy, 589 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: that they people need to be on the lookout for 590 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: is if you see somebody walking around that has scrapes 591 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: and scratches along their neck, their jawline, across their face. 592 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: We're not that many days down age still, we're just 593 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: over a week from when this occurred, those injuries would 594 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: still be there. So if there's someone in the community 595 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: that's presenting with those kinds of injuries, I'm not suggesting 596 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: anybody approached this person, but it's something that should be 597 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: made note of. If they've seen anybody that came into 598 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,280 Speaker 1: a drug store or went to a local box store 599 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: to pick up medicine or bandages or anything like that, 600 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: maybe that's what they were doing. They're trying to self 601 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: treat themselves to try to prevent this. They might attempt 602 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: to apply makeup to an area. We've seen serial perpetrators 603 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: do that before, so that's something that has to be considered. 604 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: Now as far as the visual side of things go, 605 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: the documentation with CCTV. It all depends on what's at 606 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: their disposal. Many people in these neighborhoods do, in fact 607 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,280 Speaker 1: have rain camps that are positioned on their front stoop. 608 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: I think that people would need to if they are 609 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 1: in proximity to where this event happened, they need to 610 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: contact police. Hopefully during the canvassing process, that's where the 611 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: investigators go through the neighborhood on foot. They go door 612 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: to door to door to door. Nowadays, one of the 613 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: first questions they asked, do you have video surveillance technology 614 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: here present at your home? Whereas the position, may we 615 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,720 Speaker 1: please see those recordings And they'll go through and canvas 616 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: that whole area to see if they can pick something up. 617 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: If they have, for instance, stop like cams in there 618 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: with plate readers and all that sort of stuff, they're 619 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: going to be reviewing that. And that kind of goes 620 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: back to something we saw imaged the other day on television. 621 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: There were uh photographs that have been taken up crime 622 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 1: scene text out on the side at Jason Road and 623 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: there's a if you're facing the rear of the home, 624 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: there's a little street that runs alongside this house over 625 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: to the left. I think as you're looking at the 626 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: at the parking parking pad in the back of the house, 627 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: they saw what appeared to be and there were measuring 628 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: skid marks on the road where and they look fresh. 629 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 1: You can see they're kind of dark, dark black, fresh 630 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: appearing where maybe someone skidded or they burned rubber in 631 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: that particular area and they were taking measurements of that. 632 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: So if the person was not on foot, but they 633 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: were in a vehicle and they left that area in 634 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: a rush, might be looking for a specific vehicle and 635 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: with the skid marks there were side by side. So 636 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: as far as an indicator goes, there's a couple of 637 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,800 Speaker 1: things they can do with any rubber that was left behind. 638 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: They can do a sample of that rubber out of 639 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: the road and perhaps tie that back chemically to whoever 640 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: manufactured the tires. And they can also get an idea 641 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 1: of the wheel base of a vehicle. You know, if 642 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: you're driving a big truck, you know the wheel base 643 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,359 Speaker 1: will be wider a right, if you're driving a small car, 644 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,839 Speaker 1: it's going to be more narrow. So you can get 645 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: the dimensions of a car. It doesn't mean that those 646 00:39:55,040 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: marks and road are necessarily associated with this event. However, 647 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: because it's immediately adjacent to the house, all of that 648 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 1: has to be taken into consideration. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 649 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: and this is Body Backs M