1 00:00:14,916 --> 00:00:31,196 Speaker 1: Pushkin. If I thought about who I was, it was 2 00:00:31,236 --> 00:00:35,236 Speaker 1: just a very like someone who's good at memorizing things, 3 00:00:35,276 --> 00:00:41,156 Speaker 1: someone who's good at like knowing things. But there was 4 00:00:41,196 --> 00:00:44,156 Speaker 1: no one tapping me on the shoulder and saying, Scott, 5 00:00:43,836 --> 00:00:49,036 Speaker 1: you're You're a great guy, and I need to get 6 00:00:49,076 --> 00:00:52,956 Speaker 1: to know you more. There was no one saying that 7 00:00:53,116 --> 00:00:57,036 Speaker 1: for sure. Scott Mankee never thought he had a particularly 8 00:00:57,236 --> 00:01:00,796 Speaker 1: compelling personality, but he did feel he stood out in 9 00:01:00,796 --> 00:01:03,676 Speaker 1: at least one way. He had a natural ability to 10 00:01:03,756 --> 00:01:07,636 Speaker 1: learn and remember interesting facts. So in two thousand and nine, 11 00:01:07,676 --> 00:01:10,036 Speaker 1: when Scott was in college, he tried out for the 12 00:01:10,036 --> 00:01:13,916 Speaker 1: trivia game show Jeopardy, and he made it. Scott was 13 00:01:13,956 --> 00:01:16,596 Speaker 1: excited to put his trivia skills on display and to 14 00:01:16,636 --> 00:01:20,116 Speaker 1: hopefully earn some cash, but he was surprised when viewers 15 00:01:20,156 --> 00:01:23,196 Speaker 1: responded not just to his performance but to who he 16 00:01:23,316 --> 00:01:26,036 Speaker 1: was as a person. One of the first comments that 17 00:01:26,076 --> 00:01:30,276 Speaker 1: I remember seeing was this person saying, I really like 18 00:01:30,396 --> 00:01:36,956 Speaker 1: Scott's demeanor on the show. And I didn't expect that reaction. 19 00:01:37,676 --> 00:01:41,516 Speaker 1: It seemed to be like they liked who I was 20 00:01:41,596 --> 00:01:45,196 Speaker 1: and they thought I'd seemed like a good, good hang 21 00:01:45,316 --> 00:01:51,836 Speaker 1: or whatever, And so that one really struck me on 22 00:01:51,956 --> 00:01:59,156 Speaker 1: today's show. Sometimes we just get ourselves wrong. I'm Maya 23 00:01:59,236 --> 00:02:02,116 Speaker 1: Shunker and this is a slight change of plans, a 24 00:02:02,196 --> 00:02:04,476 Speaker 1: show about who we are and who we become in 25 00:02:04,516 --> 00:02:13,596 Speaker 1: the face of the big change. I've been friends with 26 00:02:13,676 --> 00:02:16,396 Speaker 1: Scott Mankee for just about a year. I met him 27 00:02:16,396 --> 00:02:19,236 Speaker 1: through my husband Jimmy. They played some trivia leagues together, 28 00:02:19,876 --> 00:02:22,556 Speaker 1: so I wasn't surprised when I learned that Scott's always 29 00:02:22,596 --> 00:02:25,276 Speaker 1: been a big fan of the TV show Jeopardy. He 30 00:02:25,316 --> 00:02:27,716 Speaker 1: started watching it when he was in high school, right 31 00:02:27,756 --> 00:02:30,716 Speaker 1: around the time a contestant named Ken Jennings was taking 32 00:02:30,796 --> 00:02:35,436 Speaker 1: Jeopardy by storm, breaking records and winning every game. Scott 33 00:02:35,436 --> 00:02:39,156 Speaker 1: became mesmerized by Ken's epic run, and by the time 34 00:02:39,236 --> 00:02:42,116 Speaker 1: Scott got to college, he was obsessed with the show. 35 00:02:42,636 --> 00:02:46,396 Speaker 1: He skipped class to watch it, taped episodes, and rewatched them. 36 00:02:46,436 --> 00:02:48,916 Speaker 1: He even used a ballpoint pen as a stand in 37 00:02:49,036 --> 00:02:53,636 Speaker 1: for the buzzer, and Scott often found himself thinking, Huh, 38 00:02:53,796 --> 00:02:55,516 Speaker 1: maybe this is the kind of thing I could win. 39 00:02:56,356 --> 00:02:59,516 Speaker 1: The thing I liked about Jeopardy was that it's very 40 00:02:59,516 --> 00:03:02,796 Speaker 1: black and white. There are right answers and there are 41 00:03:02,796 --> 00:03:06,156 Speaker 1: wrong answers. It's something that you can improve at, it's 42 00:03:06,156 --> 00:03:09,796 Speaker 1: something that you can get better at. There's very little 43 00:03:09,836 --> 00:03:13,996 Speaker 1: gray area whether Budapest is the capital of Hungary. That's 44 00:03:14,036 --> 00:03:18,996 Speaker 1: just right or wrong. And I think I'm the type 45 00:03:18,996 --> 00:03:24,956 Speaker 1: of person that that would appeal to. And there's something 46 00:03:25,036 --> 00:03:29,876 Speaker 1: comforting about that. There's something comforting about not having to 47 00:03:29,956 --> 00:03:35,516 Speaker 1: leave anything up to someone's interpretation of something. You can 48 00:03:35,596 --> 00:03:41,476 Speaker 1: just know the answer and prepare and you're done right. 49 00:03:41,716 --> 00:03:44,116 Speaker 1: And it was the same way for me growing up 50 00:03:44,116 --> 00:03:47,436 Speaker 1: in school, right spelling tests. That was the best speller. 51 00:03:47,676 --> 00:03:49,356 Speaker 1: You just have to know how to spell the word, 52 00:03:49,516 --> 00:03:54,756 Speaker 1: and then you're done, versus you know, writing an essay 53 00:03:54,756 --> 00:04:00,196 Speaker 1: about Charles Dickens, and then your teacher has a different 54 00:04:00,276 --> 00:04:04,996 Speaker 1: viewpoint on some point that you're making, and I don't know. 55 00:04:05,036 --> 00:04:06,396 Speaker 1: I don't know how to succeed on that. There's no 56 00:04:06,436 --> 00:04:09,556 Speaker 1: guaranteed way to succeed at that, and that's un comfortable 57 00:04:09,556 --> 00:04:12,596 Speaker 1: for me. The good old days when things were true 58 00:04:12,676 --> 00:04:17,356 Speaker 1: or false. You're already making a nostalgic Scott. But so 59 00:04:17,436 --> 00:04:20,996 Speaker 1: you're in college, right, and you are now exclusively devoting 60 00:04:21,036 --> 00:04:24,516 Speaker 1: yourself to jeopardy. You're not attending class. What is that experience? 61 00:04:24,596 --> 00:04:27,676 Speaker 1: Like when you you become a super fan of Jeopardy. 62 00:04:28,516 --> 00:04:32,316 Speaker 1: What I found when I was watching the show so 63 00:04:32,356 --> 00:04:39,276 Speaker 1: consistently was that I was getting better and I started 64 00:04:39,676 --> 00:04:42,596 Speaker 1: noticing that I was getting clues that the contestants weren't getting, 65 00:04:43,116 --> 00:04:46,476 Speaker 1: and you know, I was. I was sweeping categories in 66 00:04:46,516 --> 00:04:49,756 Speaker 1: my mind, so I could tell that I was, all 67 00:04:49,756 --> 00:04:51,796 Speaker 1: of a sudden like in the mix, you know, I was. 68 00:04:51,916 --> 00:04:55,276 Speaker 1: I was being competitive with those characters on the screen. 69 00:04:55,836 --> 00:04:59,196 Speaker 1: And as I started getting getting better and better, I 70 00:04:59,596 --> 00:05:02,676 Speaker 1: had the thought that I could probably be good enough 71 00:05:02,716 --> 00:05:05,556 Speaker 1: to pass the test and be a contestant, just based 72 00:05:05,596 --> 00:05:08,676 Speaker 1: on how many questions I was getting right so on 73 00:05:08,716 --> 00:05:13,036 Speaker 1: the one and I felt like my knowledge base was there. 74 00:05:13,956 --> 00:05:18,876 Speaker 1: But the flip side of that is being a contestant, 75 00:05:18,996 --> 00:05:24,196 Speaker 1: being someone who comes into people's living rooms and being 76 00:05:24,876 --> 00:05:28,396 Speaker 1: having somewhat of a of a personality. I didn't know 77 00:05:28,436 --> 00:05:30,636 Speaker 1: if I was if I was there, and I didn't 78 00:05:30,676 --> 00:05:38,516 Speaker 1: know if I had that to offer necessarily. And where 79 00:05:38,516 --> 00:05:42,396 Speaker 1: do you think that? Where did that originate from? You 80 00:05:42,476 --> 00:05:44,756 Speaker 1: said you you had a who was the phrase you use? 81 00:05:44,836 --> 00:05:49,156 Speaker 1: A somewhat personality? Yeah? I think in college I was 82 00:05:49,276 --> 00:05:53,636 Speaker 1: just kind of a shy person and all my life. 83 00:05:53,716 --> 00:05:57,836 Speaker 1: I had been that way growing up. I don't think 84 00:05:59,076 --> 00:06:04,076 Speaker 1: being a super interesting person and being the life of 85 00:06:04,116 --> 00:06:09,996 Speaker 1: the party was necessarily valued by my family. By my parents, 86 00:06:10,796 --> 00:06:17,116 Speaker 1: my mom immigrated here. She's Chinese, She's born in Hong 87 00:06:17,196 --> 00:06:21,316 Speaker 1: Kong and moved here from Singapore when she was thirteen, 88 00:06:22,476 --> 00:06:29,436 Speaker 1: and I think she really valued hard work and achievement academically, 89 00:06:29,556 --> 00:06:33,676 Speaker 1: and you know, any of like the social stuff and 90 00:06:34,196 --> 00:06:38,476 Speaker 1: you know who my friends were and what kind of 91 00:06:38,596 --> 00:06:40,996 Speaker 1: clubs and activities I was doing. I think that was 92 00:06:41,516 --> 00:06:46,556 Speaker 1: secondary or like forgotten entirely, and so I don't think 93 00:06:46,596 --> 00:06:54,916 Speaker 1: I had that much encouragement to to try and work 94 00:06:54,916 --> 00:06:58,956 Speaker 1: on that part of myself, Like I don't think I don't. 95 00:06:58,996 --> 00:07:01,836 Speaker 1: I don't think I hung out at anyone's house or 96 00:07:01,876 --> 00:07:04,796 Speaker 1: did a sleepover maybe like once or twice throughout all 97 00:07:04,796 --> 00:07:07,036 Speaker 1: of high school. And I don't think that was a 98 00:07:07,156 --> 00:07:10,356 Speaker 1: very big concern for them. I think they were just 99 00:07:10,396 --> 00:07:13,076 Speaker 1: cool with me hanging at home with them. And you know, 100 00:07:13,156 --> 00:07:15,996 Speaker 1: getting an a in French got to conjugate those verbs, okay, 101 00:07:16,156 --> 00:07:22,676 Speaker 1: very important. I didn't think that there was anything remarkable 102 00:07:22,756 --> 00:07:26,716 Speaker 1: about me as a person that would that would make 103 00:07:26,796 --> 00:07:31,716 Speaker 1: me stand out in any way other than I know 104 00:07:31,796 --> 00:07:37,156 Speaker 1: the powers of two up to the twentieth power, or 105 00:07:37,756 --> 00:07:40,796 Speaker 1: you know, I got a perfect math SAT score when 106 00:07:40,836 --> 00:07:45,396 Speaker 1: I was thirteen. I was just I. I if I 107 00:07:45,396 --> 00:07:47,516 Speaker 1: thought about who I was, it was just a very 108 00:07:47,636 --> 00:07:50,436 Speaker 1: like someone who's good at memorizing things, someone who's good 109 00:07:50,476 --> 00:07:56,556 Speaker 1: at like knowing things. But there was no one tapping 110 00:07:56,556 --> 00:07:59,196 Speaker 1: me on the shoulder and saying, Scott, you're you're a 111 00:07:59,236 --> 00:08:04,436 Speaker 1: great guy, and I need to get to know you more, 112 00:08:05,756 --> 00:08:08,196 Speaker 1: or you need to you need to be out in 113 00:08:08,196 --> 00:08:10,516 Speaker 1: front of people and telling them all about it yourself. 114 00:08:12,076 --> 00:08:14,956 Speaker 1: There was no one saying that for sure, So I 115 00:08:15,156 --> 00:08:18,156 Speaker 1: don't know why. I don't know how other people are 116 00:08:18,316 --> 00:08:22,196 Speaker 1: are comfortable doing that when there's a very real chance 117 00:08:22,276 --> 00:08:26,116 Speaker 1: that no one wants to hear from them, and all 118 00:08:26,116 --> 00:08:31,276 Speaker 1: of a sudden everyone loses from that interaction. Yeah, that's interesting. 119 00:08:31,316 --> 00:08:34,516 Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like your default assumption was that 120 00:08:34,676 --> 00:08:38,596 Speaker 1: unless you were explicitly told otherwise, what you had to 121 00:08:38,636 --> 00:08:42,636 Speaker 1: say wouldn't be interesting to people. Is that right? Yeah? 122 00:08:42,676 --> 00:08:44,876 Speaker 1: I think that is right. I think I just didn't 123 00:08:44,916 --> 00:08:49,396 Speaker 1: have a lot of self confidence. I didn't feel comfortable 124 00:08:50,236 --> 00:08:54,956 Speaker 1: putting myself out there with people. I didn't know, with 125 00:08:55,876 --> 00:08:59,036 Speaker 1: a large group of people that may have different interests 126 00:08:59,036 --> 00:09:02,596 Speaker 1: than me, I didn't think that I had anything to 127 00:09:02,636 --> 00:09:08,516 Speaker 1: offer them. Really, I was into my thing, but you know, 128 00:09:08,516 --> 00:09:12,516 Speaker 1: why would any one want to know my thoughts and 129 00:09:12,516 --> 00:09:17,396 Speaker 1: feelings about subjects that I'm not necessarily an expert in 130 00:09:17,676 --> 00:09:19,716 Speaker 1: or you know that I don't have all the right 131 00:09:19,756 --> 00:09:24,996 Speaker 1: answers too, And so I was just shy and had 132 00:09:25,076 --> 00:09:29,116 Speaker 1: reservations about sharing anything with them. Yeah, and that's particularly 133 00:09:29,116 --> 00:09:31,996 Speaker 1: interesting because it's not like I mean, correct me if 134 00:09:31,996 --> 00:09:33,636 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, But it seems like it's not like people 135 00:09:33,636 --> 00:09:36,276 Speaker 1: were actively saying negative things about you. They weren't coming 136 00:09:36,316 --> 00:09:39,996 Speaker 1: up to you and saying, Scott, your personality sucks. You 137 00:09:40,076 --> 00:09:43,716 Speaker 1: shouldn't be in front of large swots of people sharing 138 00:09:43,716 --> 00:09:46,036 Speaker 1: who you are. Inside the feedback you're getting was the 139 00:09:46,036 --> 00:09:49,316 Speaker 1: absence of feedback, right, Yea, So there was really no 140 00:09:50,116 --> 00:09:53,236 Speaker 1: confirmatory evidence in either direction. But it seems like you 141 00:09:54,116 --> 00:09:59,836 Speaker 1: decided in your mind anyway that no, I'm you know, 142 00:10:00,676 --> 00:10:03,276 Speaker 1: I'm smart, but not really that fun to be around. 143 00:10:03,356 --> 00:10:06,276 Speaker 1: People don't really care what I have to say. Yeah, 144 00:10:06,396 --> 00:10:09,476 Speaker 1: I think that's right. I think that's totally right. So so 145 00:10:09,236 --> 00:10:11,396 Speaker 1: so maybe maybe I've gotten some feedback in the past 146 00:10:11,396 --> 00:10:15,996 Speaker 1: that I'm a nice person. But it seemed a stretch 147 00:10:16,076 --> 00:10:19,396 Speaker 1: to me to suggest that I would then go on 148 00:10:19,436 --> 00:10:22,676 Speaker 1: a on a game show and say, hey, everybody, look 149 00:10:22,716 --> 00:10:27,716 Speaker 1: at me. I'm great. That that that didn't track to me. 150 00:10:28,316 --> 00:10:33,676 Speaker 1: M So, Scott, give given everything that you've just described, right, 151 00:10:33,756 --> 00:10:38,036 Speaker 1: being relatively shy, um, not feeling that anyone will want 152 00:10:38,076 --> 00:10:41,476 Speaker 1: to have the opportunity to get to know you in 153 00:10:41,516 --> 00:10:46,116 Speaker 1: any deep way, why go on a game show? Yep, Yeah, 154 00:10:46,116 --> 00:10:51,356 Speaker 1: that's a good question. So Number one, if you win 155 00:10:51,396 --> 00:10:55,116 Speaker 1: the tournament, this college tournament, you can win one hundred 156 00:10:55,116 --> 00:10:57,076 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. That's the amount of money that goes to 157 00:10:57,076 --> 00:10:59,876 Speaker 1: the winner. Wow, so there's there's a real incentive there. 158 00:11:00,716 --> 00:11:04,116 Speaker 1: Number two, I felt like you would be good for me, 159 00:11:04,916 --> 00:11:09,396 Speaker 1: uh like for my resume somehow, Like I wasn't doing 160 00:11:09,396 --> 00:11:12,676 Speaker 1: that great in school. I thought if I if I 161 00:11:12,716 --> 00:11:17,796 Speaker 1: was representing my school on Jeopardy, that that would be 162 00:11:18,396 --> 00:11:21,116 Speaker 1: kind of reclaiming like some kind of you know, good 163 00:11:21,156 --> 00:11:25,476 Speaker 1: points for me in some sense. So you mustter up 164 00:11:25,476 --> 00:11:30,236 Speaker 1: the courage to audition for Jeopardy, right, Yeah, So I 165 00:11:30,276 --> 00:11:34,676 Speaker 1: finally decide it's time. So the first thing I did 166 00:11:34,756 --> 00:11:39,156 Speaker 1: was you take an online test, And a few days 167 00:11:39,196 --> 00:11:40,916 Speaker 1: after that, I got an email that says, Hey, you're 168 00:11:40,916 --> 00:11:44,596 Speaker 1: invited to come to Washington, d C. For an audition 169 00:11:45,036 --> 00:11:48,036 Speaker 1: in person where you'll get to play the game and 170 00:11:48,116 --> 00:11:51,836 Speaker 1: you'll get to meet some of the crew at the show. 171 00:11:52,716 --> 00:11:58,436 Speaker 1: So that's exciting. So go there a month later and 172 00:11:59,116 --> 00:12:04,356 Speaker 1: get into the room and there's fifty other hopefuls who 173 00:12:04,356 --> 00:12:09,516 Speaker 1: are from nearby colleges sitting in this conference room, and 174 00:12:09,876 --> 00:12:14,076 Speaker 1: I feel intimidated because a lot of them have better 175 00:12:14,116 --> 00:12:18,076 Speaker 1: stories than me from the outset, and I'm like, I got, 176 00:12:18,116 --> 00:12:21,076 Speaker 1: I got nothing, um, And so I'm I'm I'm a 177 00:12:21,116 --> 00:12:27,316 Speaker 1: little discouraged in the moment because even amongst the Jeopardy faithful, 178 00:12:27,796 --> 00:12:32,276 Speaker 1: who you would imagine are a little less interesting than 179 00:12:32,316 --> 00:12:35,236 Speaker 1: the than the than the average person, I feel like 180 00:12:35,276 --> 00:12:39,356 Speaker 1: I'm not scoring well against them. So that was kind 181 00:12:39,356 --> 00:12:43,436 Speaker 1: of the backdrop for for that audition. And then I 182 00:12:43,476 --> 00:12:46,516 Speaker 1: feel like I did decently when I was actually buzzing 183 00:12:46,836 --> 00:12:50,276 Speaker 1: and answering questions. Um, that was kind of my crutch. 184 00:12:50,676 --> 00:12:54,756 Speaker 1: I can do pretty well just answering questions, you know. 185 00:12:54,756 --> 00:12:57,876 Speaker 1: That's my bread and butter. That's what I've been practicing 186 00:12:58,236 --> 00:13:01,636 Speaker 1: all these years and then comes time for me to 187 00:13:01,956 --> 00:13:05,716 Speaker 1: talk about myself, and sadly, one of the one of 188 00:13:05,756 --> 00:13:08,676 Speaker 1: the fun facts that I wrote about myself was simply 189 00:13:08,756 --> 00:13:11,676 Speaker 1: repeat eating a line in my bio. It was just 190 00:13:12,076 --> 00:13:16,436 Speaker 1: my name is Scott. I'm a senior in college. So 191 00:13:16,556 --> 00:13:18,636 Speaker 1: there was nothing remotely interesting about that. It was just 192 00:13:18,676 --> 00:13:22,156 Speaker 1: repeating information that was contained on the other parts of 193 00:13:22,156 --> 00:13:24,316 Speaker 1: the form. I love how the line of your bio 194 00:13:24,396 --> 00:13:27,476 Speaker 1: you chose was literally your nave in college, that fact 195 00:13:27,516 --> 00:13:30,676 Speaker 1: that you're a college student. It's a college tournament. I 196 00:13:30,716 --> 00:13:34,156 Speaker 1: mean they probably could have deduced that that's very that's 197 00:13:34,276 --> 00:13:36,796 Speaker 1: very charming. Yeah, like you weren't even willing to go 198 00:13:36,796 --> 00:13:38,836 Speaker 1: to that. I used to play the violin and hated it, 199 00:13:38,956 --> 00:13:41,036 Speaker 1: or I don't know what other hobbies one might have 200 00:13:41,076 --> 00:13:44,356 Speaker 1: had growing up. Right, very interesting, right, that was? That 201 00:13:44,396 --> 00:13:48,876 Speaker 1: was number one? That was number one fact. And I 202 00:13:48,916 --> 00:13:55,236 Speaker 1: remember how I knew something about the show that no 203 00:13:55,236 --> 00:13:57,876 Speaker 1: one else in the room had known. And what it 204 00:13:57,996 --> 00:14:02,476 Speaker 1: was was the producer asks, does anyone remember who won 205 00:14:02,676 --> 00:14:06,836 Speaker 1: the college tournament the previous year? And I raised my 206 00:14:06,876 --> 00:14:08,476 Speaker 1: hand and I said, of course, it was Joey from 207 00:14:08,476 --> 00:14:14,196 Speaker 1: Mississippi State. And I think that in my mind was 208 00:14:14,636 --> 00:14:17,716 Speaker 1: the difference maker. You know, I was kind of unremarkable 209 00:14:17,716 --> 00:14:20,036 Speaker 1: in the other aspects, but the fact that I was 210 00:14:20,036 --> 00:14:22,476 Speaker 1: such a super fan and knew, you know, the show 211 00:14:22,516 --> 00:14:26,636 Speaker 1: backwards and forwards and what had happened was what allowed 212 00:14:26,636 --> 00:14:30,836 Speaker 1: me to kind of differentiate myself. And yeah, that was it. 213 00:14:30,836 --> 00:14:35,396 Speaker 1: It was. It was pretty quick. Didn't feel that optimistic 214 00:14:35,436 --> 00:14:39,316 Speaker 1: about my chances, and you know, I felt like I 215 00:14:39,356 --> 00:14:43,356 Speaker 1: did okay on the trivia and subpar on the personality part, 216 00:14:43,436 --> 00:14:47,316 Speaker 1: as expected. And so then what is it like to 217 00:14:47,356 --> 00:14:50,756 Speaker 1: get the call that you you had been chosen from 218 00:14:50,796 --> 00:14:54,036 Speaker 1: all those hopefuls? Yeah, that was that was great. I 219 00:14:54,076 --> 00:14:58,956 Speaker 1: remember ever since I auditioned, I would fantasize about seeing 220 00:14:58,996 --> 00:15:03,676 Speaker 1: that number show up on my little flip phone, and 221 00:15:03,796 --> 00:15:06,196 Speaker 1: I would just imagine, like what what that feeling would 222 00:15:06,196 --> 00:15:07,556 Speaker 1: be like when I when I saw this call him 223 00:15:07,556 --> 00:15:13,236 Speaker 1: through the way I've felt at that moment was was joy. 224 00:15:13,316 --> 00:15:16,236 Speaker 1: I remember looking out into the into the distance, into 225 00:15:16,276 --> 00:15:20,156 Speaker 1: the ocean and thinking, as cheesy as it might sound, 226 00:15:20,476 --> 00:15:22,676 Speaker 1: like all my life's about to change. My life's meet 227 00:15:22,716 --> 00:15:25,276 Speaker 1: to change. I remember thinking that, And in what way 228 00:15:25,316 --> 00:15:29,916 Speaker 1: did you think that it would change? I felt like 229 00:15:29,916 --> 00:15:33,916 Speaker 1: like I I had been watching Jeopardy for a while, 230 00:15:34,196 --> 00:15:38,356 Speaker 1: so to me, being on Jeopardy was a big deal. Yeah. 231 00:15:38,396 --> 00:15:39,996 Speaker 1: In my mind, I'm like, now I get to be 232 00:15:39,996 --> 00:15:43,476 Speaker 1: a part of this club, and you know it's going 233 00:15:43,556 --> 00:15:49,716 Speaker 1: to be a maybe anxiety riddling experience, but it's going 234 00:15:49,756 --> 00:15:53,516 Speaker 1: to be, you know, a big experience nonetheless. And then 235 00:15:53,556 --> 00:15:56,996 Speaker 1: what is it like, you know, to be to be 236 00:15:57,076 --> 00:15:59,756 Speaker 1: on the stage the lights go on, You're so once 237 00:15:59,796 --> 00:16:02,796 Speaker 1: we get to the stage, you're you're getting to go 238 00:16:02,876 --> 00:16:05,756 Speaker 1: through the motions of actually being on Jeopardy. I remember 239 00:16:05,796 --> 00:16:08,956 Speaker 1: buzzing in correctly on a few clues in this practice round, 240 00:16:09,356 --> 00:16:14,716 Speaker 1: and pretty quickly I get ushered offstage and the producers 241 00:16:14,716 --> 00:16:18,556 Speaker 1: are like, Scott, you're good, good job, good job. You 242 00:16:18,556 --> 00:16:21,916 Speaker 1: don't need any more practice. You're all set. And I 243 00:16:21,996 --> 00:16:25,076 Speaker 1: felt happy about that. I felt like I fit the 244 00:16:25,156 --> 00:16:29,756 Speaker 1: mold of a good contestant in the sense that I 245 00:16:29,796 --> 00:16:31,476 Speaker 1: did what I was supposed to do. I kept the 246 00:16:31,476 --> 00:16:34,836 Speaker 1: game moving. I was looking in the right direction and 247 00:16:35,916 --> 00:16:39,676 Speaker 1: pressing the buzzer appropriately and answering in with a good 248 00:16:39,836 --> 00:16:42,316 Speaker 1: tone of voice. So I felt like I checked all 249 00:16:42,356 --> 00:16:47,476 Speaker 1: the boxes of just fulfilling the contestant duties if they 250 00:16:47,516 --> 00:16:51,356 Speaker 1: existed on a checklist somewhere I felt like I felt 251 00:16:51,356 --> 00:16:53,796 Speaker 1: like I was ready to play, and so yeah, I 252 00:16:53,836 --> 00:16:58,996 Speaker 1: felt I felt good. Well, here how Scott did on Jeopardy. 253 00:16:59,116 --> 00:17:01,596 Speaker 1: After the break, we'll be back in a moment with 254 00:17:01,676 --> 00:17:15,436 Speaker 1: a slight change of plans. We're back with Scott Manke, 255 00:17:15,916 --> 00:17:19,236 Speaker 1: who successfully made it on to the Jeopardy College Championship 256 00:17:19,316 --> 00:17:22,276 Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine. So let's hear about Scott's 257 00:17:22,276 --> 00:17:25,556 Speaker 1: experience on the show, starting with when he introduced himself 258 00:17:25,636 --> 00:17:29,676 Speaker 1: to the ten million plus viewers watching at home. Scott 259 00:17:29,716 --> 00:17:35,596 Speaker 1: Minky is from Flemington, New Jersey. Teaches chess to who 260 00:17:36,956 --> 00:17:39,596 Speaker 1: at Johns Hopkins were in the community of Baltimore. So 261 00:17:39,636 --> 00:17:43,036 Speaker 1: we go out into the more underprivileged communities in Baltimore 262 00:17:43,116 --> 00:17:45,956 Speaker 1: and we bring out a table every week and set 263 00:17:45,996 --> 00:17:48,196 Speaker 1: up some boards and we teach the chess the kids 264 00:17:48,196 --> 00:17:50,716 Speaker 1: in the in the neighborhood there. Are they fascinated by 265 00:17:50,756 --> 00:17:52,836 Speaker 1: the game? Are they really interested or is it just 266 00:17:52,916 --> 00:17:54,756 Speaker 1: a way to pass the time. It's a little bit 267 00:17:54,756 --> 00:17:57,276 Speaker 1: of both. They're they're pretty interested. Unfortunately, they forget the 268 00:17:57,316 --> 00:17:59,076 Speaker 1: rules every week, so we have to reteach them. That 269 00:17:59,116 --> 00:18:00,636 Speaker 1: takes up a lot of time, but at the end, 270 00:18:00,676 --> 00:18:03,996 Speaker 1: we usually get a few good games going. How did 271 00:18:03,996 --> 00:18:08,236 Speaker 1: you do? How did it go? Yeah, my first game 272 00:18:08,476 --> 00:18:11,916 Speaker 1: went really well well. I had a small lead going 273 00:18:11,916 --> 00:18:15,396 Speaker 1: into double jeopardy, and then in that second round I 274 00:18:15,436 --> 00:18:21,236 Speaker 1: really pulled away and reached thirty thousand dollars at some point, 275 00:18:21,796 --> 00:18:25,876 Speaker 1: which is a pretty decisive victory. And I went into 276 00:18:26,396 --> 00:18:29,356 Speaker 1: the final jeopardy knowing that I had what's called a 277 00:18:29,396 --> 00:18:32,476 Speaker 1: lock game, or I had no chance of losing if 278 00:18:32,516 --> 00:18:35,716 Speaker 1: I wagered appropriately. And then the second day and then 279 00:18:35,756 --> 00:18:38,396 Speaker 1: the second day it was more of a back and 280 00:18:38,476 --> 00:18:40,836 Speaker 1: forth game. I did well enough that I had the 281 00:18:40,916 --> 00:18:45,196 Speaker 1: lead going into final Jeopardy, and I got the question wrong. 282 00:18:45,876 --> 00:18:48,756 Speaker 1: So my Jeopardy run kind of came to a crashing 283 00:18:48,756 --> 00:18:52,356 Speaker 1: halt when it was revealed that the answer to the 284 00:18:52,436 --> 00:18:56,796 Speaker 1: clue was deadline and not headline as I had written. 285 00:18:57,876 --> 00:19:00,596 Speaker 1: So one letter kind of brought the whole thing to 286 00:19:00,636 --> 00:19:03,316 Speaker 1: an end. That's so unfortunate. You should have been well, 287 00:19:03,316 --> 00:19:04,796 Speaker 1: good thing you weren't a real of fortune, because it 288 00:19:04,796 --> 00:19:09,676 Speaker 1: turns out letters matter a lot there ut Okay, So 289 00:19:09,716 --> 00:19:11,876 Speaker 1: what did it feel like, Scott? When when this whole 290 00:19:11,876 --> 00:19:16,156 Speaker 1: experience was over, I would say, yeah, it was I 291 00:19:16,436 --> 00:19:19,716 Speaker 1: felt good about it. I felt like I achieved, you know, 292 00:19:19,876 --> 00:19:23,076 Speaker 1: higher than fifty percentile outcome of what could have happened. 293 00:19:23,596 --> 00:19:26,356 Speaker 1: My parents got to see me win there, which was 294 00:19:26,356 --> 00:19:29,556 Speaker 1: like important to me, and I did fine, So I 295 00:19:29,636 --> 00:19:33,356 Speaker 1: was happy with it. So what is it like after 296 00:19:33,556 --> 00:19:38,716 Speaker 1: the show actually airs. I remember back in the back 297 00:19:38,756 --> 00:19:40,316 Speaker 1: in those days, by the way, two thousand and nine, 298 00:19:40,436 --> 00:19:43,236 Speaker 1: everything's everything's done on Facebook, all right. Facebook is huge 299 00:19:43,356 --> 00:19:48,636 Speaker 1: back then, and there's this Jeopardy message board where people 300 00:19:48,676 --> 00:19:52,316 Speaker 1: post about the episodes and you know, some predictions for 301 00:19:52,356 --> 00:19:55,476 Speaker 1: the upcoming tournament, that kind of thing. I remember people 302 00:19:56,596 --> 00:19:59,436 Speaker 1: on the message board being like, ooh, you know Scott 303 00:19:59,436 --> 00:20:01,556 Speaker 1: from Johns Hopkins, I think I think this guy could 304 00:20:01,596 --> 00:20:03,276 Speaker 1: be I think this guy could be the winner. You know, 305 00:20:03,316 --> 00:20:07,436 Speaker 1: we'll see. So there's there's just like there's I tried 306 00:20:07,436 --> 00:20:13,556 Speaker 1: to consume all of the media surrounding my appearance, you know, 307 00:20:13,596 --> 00:20:17,396 Speaker 1: which consists of this one message board mostly and you know, 308 00:20:17,516 --> 00:20:21,516 Speaker 1: see what people's reactions are going to be basically. So 309 00:20:21,556 --> 00:20:25,196 Speaker 1: then the first episode airs, and first there's like a 310 00:20:25,236 --> 00:20:30,596 Speaker 1: flood of you know, Facebook friend requests, people sending me 311 00:20:31,036 --> 00:20:33,796 Speaker 1: notes and things like oh wow, you did you did 312 00:20:33,836 --> 00:20:37,076 Speaker 1: so well congratulations, And then I go to the message 313 00:20:37,076 --> 00:20:41,116 Speaker 1: board because that's where like the true Jeopardy diehards are. 314 00:20:41,116 --> 00:20:42,636 Speaker 1: And you know, I don't care as much that my 315 00:20:42,716 --> 00:20:46,596 Speaker 1: neighbor from back home said good job, Scott, because they 316 00:20:46,596 --> 00:20:49,196 Speaker 1: would say that regardless of how I did. But I 317 00:20:49,236 --> 00:20:53,636 Speaker 1: want to hear from the Jeopardy ogs. Yeah, what do 318 00:20:53,676 --> 00:20:55,836 Speaker 1: I have their respect? And so I go to my 319 00:20:55,956 --> 00:21:00,436 Speaker 1: episode page and yeah, one of the first comments that 320 00:21:00,476 --> 00:21:04,276 Speaker 1: I remember seeing was this person saying, I really like 321 00:21:04,396 --> 00:21:07,636 Speaker 1: Scott's demeanor on the show. You know, I think they 322 00:21:07,836 --> 00:21:11,156 Speaker 1: had some other points about my performance and how how 323 00:21:11,156 --> 00:21:13,436 Speaker 1: many questions I got right or how well I was doing, 324 00:21:13,476 --> 00:21:16,396 Speaker 1: but that was the first line, I believe of the 325 00:21:16,196 --> 00:21:18,636 Speaker 1: of the post, and it really stuck out to me 326 00:21:18,716 --> 00:21:22,916 Speaker 1: because I didn't expect that reaction. I thought it would be, 327 00:21:23,836 --> 00:21:25,596 Speaker 1: you know about, oh, how did I miss this question 328 00:21:25,716 --> 00:21:28,236 Speaker 1: or you know, good job getting getting this one right. 329 00:21:28,356 --> 00:21:32,316 Speaker 1: But it seemed to be like they liked who I 330 00:21:32,436 --> 00:21:35,996 Speaker 1: was and they thought I'd seemed like a good, good 331 00:21:35,996 --> 00:21:38,516 Speaker 1: hang or whatever, and so that one, that one really 332 00:21:38,516 --> 00:21:41,836 Speaker 1: struck me. Um So, in addition to that, what was 333 00:21:41,876 --> 00:21:45,796 Speaker 1: funny was someone created a Scott Mankie on Jeopardy fan 334 00:21:45,916 --> 00:21:51,076 Speaker 1: club low membership, definitely, but hey, better to have a 335 00:21:51,076 --> 00:21:55,596 Speaker 1: few high quality ones, right, that's right, that's yeah, a 336 00:21:55,716 --> 00:21:59,236 Speaker 1: hundred true fans, right, that's what we need. Okay. I 337 00:21:59,316 --> 00:22:05,116 Speaker 1: was touched by the fact that someone went to the 338 00:22:05,876 --> 00:22:10,196 Speaker 1: trouble of of making that um so, so that was 339 00:22:10,276 --> 00:22:13,916 Speaker 1: that was heartening. I thought I would be passable and 340 00:22:14,356 --> 00:22:18,756 Speaker 1: an acceptable person in terms of how I came off. 341 00:22:18,796 --> 00:22:22,236 Speaker 1: But I just remember people saying that they'd want to 342 00:22:22,276 --> 00:22:24,436 Speaker 1: be my friend, or they'd want to you know, they'd 343 00:22:24,436 --> 00:22:27,916 Speaker 1: want to meet me, just based off how the episode was. 344 00:22:29,556 --> 00:22:34,556 Speaker 1: So so you're starting to notice that people are responding 345 00:22:34,636 --> 00:22:38,676 Speaker 1: to you, right, not not your trivia prowess, but to you. 346 00:22:38,836 --> 00:22:41,876 Speaker 1: They they they like you. They're expressing that they want 347 00:22:41,876 --> 00:22:45,556 Speaker 1: to be friends with you, contrary to your working model 348 00:22:45,596 --> 00:22:48,196 Speaker 1: of the world, which is that you had nothing interesting 349 00:22:48,276 --> 00:22:49,716 Speaker 1: to say and no one would want to hear what 350 00:22:49,716 --> 00:22:52,436 Speaker 1: you had to say. It sounds like people do. What 351 00:22:52,516 --> 00:22:55,036 Speaker 1: was it like to have this realization about yourself for 352 00:22:55,036 --> 00:22:59,476 Speaker 1: the first time? It was it was a substantial realization, 353 00:22:59,956 --> 00:23:05,956 Speaker 1: and it made me wonder whether I needed to change 354 00:23:05,956 --> 00:23:09,236 Speaker 1: how I interact with others and need to share more 355 00:23:09,276 --> 00:23:13,076 Speaker 1: and need to put myself out there, if they enjoy 356 00:23:13,156 --> 00:23:15,636 Speaker 1: me for who I am, then maybe I need to 357 00:23:15,636 --> 00:23:19,916 Speaker 1: share more of that. And did this realization lead you 358 00:23:19,996 --> 00:23:26,596 Speaker 1: to reinterpret anything that had happened during your Jeopardy experience? 359 00:23:27,556 --> 00:23:31,756 Speaker 1: Seeing people respond that way made me wonder whether that 360 00:23:31,956 --> 00:23:35,876 Speaker 1: same thing came across when I was filming the show, 361 00:23:36,516 --> 00:23:41,236 Speaker 1: and whether I was getting a similar response there. And 362 00:23:41,276 --> 00:23:46,116 Speaker 1: so I thought back, and I do remember the different 363 00:23:46,156 --> 00:23:49,316 Speaker 1: crew members on the show joking around with me during 364 00:23:50,156 --> 00:23:54,316 Speaker 1: downtime and talking about other shows that they'd worked on, 365 00:23:54,476 --> 00:23:57,836 Speaker 1: and different celebrities and who was nice and who was not, 366 00:23:58,116 --> 00:24:02,236 Speaker 1: and different different gossip from behind the scenes of some 367 00:24:02,316 --> 00:24:05,076 Speaker 1: of these shows. And I wondered if it was maybe 368 00:24:06,156 --> 00:24:10,196 Speaker 1: them just wanting to hang out and me seeming like 369 00:24:10,276 --> 00:24:16,876 Speaker 1: a good person to talk to, Um, maybe reconsider that. Yeah, 370 00:24:16,916 --> 00:24:19,716 Speaker 1: And you know, I imagine, you know, anytime we have 371 00:24:19,836 --> 00:24:24,556 Speaker 1: a profound realization, you know, we can we can prescribe 372 00:24:24,996 --> 00:24:27,236 Speaker 1: a future for ourselves in which we, you know, change 373 00:24:27,276 --> 00:24:30,956 Speaker 1: the way we are. But it's perhaps hard to put 374 00:24:30,996 --> 00:24:33,156 Speaker 1: that into practice, right because so much of it feels 375 00:24:33,156 --> 00:24:36,076 Speaker 1: so foreign. M So, so, do you have any notable 376 00:24:36,116 --> 00:24:39,756 Speaker 1: memories or any specific memories of when you kind of 377 00:24:40,836 --> 00:24:43,196 Speaker 1: took the car for a test drive, so to speak, 378 00:24:43,236 --> 00:24:47,036 Speaker 1: the personality car. So yeah, I remember, I remember the moment. 379 00:24:47,196 --> 00:24:51,116 Speaker 1: I remember a moment. The moment was in Las Vegas, 380 00:24:51,156 --> 00:24:54,676 Speaker 1: where I lived after graduating. I would like play poker sometimes, 381 00:24:55,276 --> 00:24:57,996 Speaker 1: and when you're seated at a poker table, it's just 382 00:24:58,116 --> 00:25:02,236 Speaker 1: like ten strangers and you're you know, in between hands 383 00:25:02,436 --> 00:25:05,276 Speaker 1: or when you're not when you don't have cards, there's 384 00:25:05,276 --> 00:25:08,476 Speaker 1: a lot of table talk or banter that's that's going on. 385 00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:12,036 Speaker 1: And I remember engaging in that. And this was like 386 00:25:12,076 --> 00:25:14,796 Speaker 1: shortly after the you know, less than a year after 387 00:25:14,836 --> 00:25:19,356 Speaker 1: the episode it had aired, and feeling comfortable in that situation. 388 00:25:20,716 --> 00:25:23,436 Speaker 1: I don't think any of the opinions I shared were 389 00:25:23,476 --> 00:25:26,676 Speaker 1: like notable, but it was things like, you know, talking 390 00:25:26,676 --> 00:25:31,596 Speaker 1: about the sports game that was on TV, or talking 391 00:25:31,596 --> 00:25:34,236 Speaker 1: about like iPhones. I remember iPhones were like new back then, 392 00:25:34,676 --> 00:25:37,916 Speaker 1: and kind of just like talking about the technology generally. 393 00:25:38,316 --> 00:25:42,396 Speaker 1: But I just remember feeling much more comfortable in my 394 00:25:42,476 --> 00:25:47,316 Speaker 1: skin talking with these strangers. And I think if I 395 00:25:47,356 --> 00:25:49,316 Speaker 1: was at a poker table before Jeopardy, I would just 396 00:25:49,796 --> 00:25:53,716 Speaker 1: you know, sunglasses, hoodie up, just looking at the looking 397 00:25:53,756 --> 00:25:56,436 Speaker 1: at the cards and caring about the game. You know, 398 00:25:56,476 --> 00:25:59,076 Speaker 1: it's so interesting you mentioned, you know, and none of 399 00:25:59,116 --> 00:26:03,156 Speaker 1: it was notable stuff. That's exactly the point. I mean, 400 00:26:03,196 --> 00:26:06,116 Speaker 1: the fact that you felt that in order for something 401 00:26:06,156 --> 00:26:08,196 Speaker 1: to be worth sharing before all this, it had to 402 00:26:08,196 --> 00:26:11,916 Speaker 1: be notable is such a high bar as a human 403 00:26:11,956 --> 00:26:15,476 Speaker 1: being to have to try and meet in conversation, right, 404 00:26:15,836 --> 00:26:19,076 Speaker 1: And so I think I think it's precisely because the 405 00:26:19,156 --> 00:26:23,436 Speaker 1: things weren't notable, that it's a sign of emotional and 406 00:26:23,476 --> 00:26:28,156 Speaker 1: psychological progress. Right. You were willing to share pretty benolve 407 00:26:28,236 --> 00:26:33,476 Speaker 1: views on the iPhone. That's fantastic, that's so true. Yeah, yeah, 408 00:26:33,596 --> 00:26:37,116 Speaker 1: I think it can go too far where you know, 409 00:26:37,196 --> 00:26:41,236 Speaker 1: people are are tweeting about turkey sub for lunch, all right, 410 00:26:41,716 --> 00:26:44,916 Speaker 1: you know, but given where you started, yes, exactly, Given 411 00:26:44,996 --> 00:26:47,156 Speaker 1: given where I started, I think I think it was progress. 412 00:26:47,156 --> 00:26:49,316 Speaker 1: And I think that's a that's a great point, um. 413 00:26:49,956 --> 00:26:52,956 Speaker 1: And yeah, like that that is the difference between me 414 00:26:53,036 --> 00:26:56,716 Speaker 1: now and before, where this is making me realize that 415 00:26:56,796 --> 00:26:59,476 Speaker 1: things about myself maya maybe maybe this is the biggest difference. 416 00:26:59,476 --> 00:27:04,676 Speaker 1: Where it's just in these very commonplace situations, you know, 417 00:27:04,676 --> 00:27:08,036 Speaker 1: sitting next to someone on the plane, like just having 418 00:27:08,516 --> 00:27:14,316 Speaker 1: small top conversations about how you feel about very ordinary, 419 00:27:14,796 --> 00:27:17,436 Speaker 1: mundane things talking about the weather, even though that's such 420 00:27:17,476 --> 00:27:21,956 Speaker 1: like a that's such a cliche, like, yeah, it's it's 421 00:27:21,996 --> 00:27:25,596 Speaker 1: getting warmer out and and I like that because you know, 422 00:27:25,636 --> 00:27:29,516 Speaker 1: I like the longer days, and you know, it's it 423 00:27:29,596 --> 00:27:33,356 Speaker 1: makes I can wear a lighter jacket. It's it's it's better. 424 00:27:33,796 --> 00:27:38,276 Speaker 1: I feel more comfortable sharing those thoughts now than I 425 00:27:38,316 --> 00:27:41,516 Speaker 1: did before, and I think that is like freeing and 426 00:27:41,516 --> 00:27:45,076 Speaker 1: and cool in a way. Yeah, you know, I could 427 00:27:45,076 --> 00:27:47,996 Speaker 1: imagine people saying in response, oh, but Scott, like, you 428 00:27:48,036 --> 00:27:51,756 Speaker 1: shouldn't have needed other people to validate your personality, to 429 00:27:51,836 --> 00:27:56,076 Speaker 1: validate that you're likable. And I mean, it's not entirely untrue. 430 00:27:56,436 --> 00:28:00,596 Speaker 1: But at the same time, we are social creatures. What 431 00:28:00,676 --> 00:28:04,036 Speaker 1: does it mean to be objectively charming? It doesn't mean anything. 432 00:28:04,276 --> 00:28:07,876 Speaker 1: There's only such thing as subjective charm subjective likability, right 433 00:28:09,156 --> 00:28:11,316 Speaker 1: at least that's my view of the world. And so 434 00:28:12,316 --> 00:28:14,316 Speaker 1: I think it is more than reasonable for us to 435 00:28:15,316 --> 00:28:19,116 Speaker 1: at least seek some feedback from others. That's not to 436 00:28:19,156 --> 00:28:22,716 Speaker 1: say that other people's approval or validation should constitute the 437 00:28:22,876 --> 00:28:25,036 Speaker 1: entirety of our self confidence and resolve all of our 438 00:28:25,036 --> 00:28:30,276 Speaker 1: self esteem issues. Or cause self esteem issues. But it's data. 439 00:28:30,556 --> 00:28:33,836 Speaker 1: It seems relevant, right, I totally agree. Yeah, I think 440 00:28:33,836 --> 00:28:37,796 Speaker 1: it is data. I think it offers a glimpse into 441 00:28:38,156 --> 00:28:43,076 Speaker 1: how others may view you and under appreciated aspects of 442 00:28:43,116 --> 00:28:48,076 Speaker 1: yourself that may exist, And I would encourage people to 443 00:28:48,076 --> 00:28:53,516 Speaker 1: seek opportunities to find that, to find ways in which 444 00:28:53,916 --> 00:28:58,116 Speaker 1: aspects of yourself that you don't necessarily think about or 445 00:28:58,436 --> 00:29:02,876 Speaker 1: think highly of can be viewed in another light or 446 00:29:03,516 --> 00:29:06,116 Speaker 1: can get kind of a second opinion on those things 447 00:29:06,116 --> 00:29:09,596 Speaker 1: other than your own self image. Yeah, And I think 448 00:29:09,596 --> 00:29:15,516 Speaker 1: another lesson from your story is, at a minimum, we 449 00:29:15,516 --> 00:29:20,636 Speaker 1: shouldn't take absence of evidence as confirmation in either direction. Right, 450 00:29:20,636 --> 00:29:23,676 Speaker 1: we talked about you're having just a default understanding that 451 00:29:23,756 --> 00:29:26,436 Speaker 1: unless I hear explicitly otherwise from other people, unless I 452 00:29:26,436 --> 00:29:29,356 Speaker 1: hear otherwise, I'm just going to assume that I'm not 453 00:29:29,436 --> 00:29:33,356 Speaker 1: worth hearing from. And it seems like at a minimum, 454 00:29:33,396 --> 00:29:36,676 Speaker 1: we should stay neutral on where we fall along different 455 00:29:36,676 --> 00:29:41,476 Speaker 1: traits until there's some thoughtful reflection happening in our own 456 00:29:41,516 --> 00:29:46,196 Speaker 1: minds or we have information from others. Otherwise we're operating 457 00:29:46,196 --> 00:29:49,396 Speaker 1: in a vacuum. And once we establish that default, as 458 00:29:49,476 --> 00:29:54,036 Speaker 1: your story shows, it's very easy to stay in that, 459 00:29:55,036 --> 00:29:56,956 Speaker 1: to let inertia kind of propel you forward, and to 460 00:29:56,996 --> 00:30:00,556 Speaker 1: make lots of life choices based on that understanding right 461 00:30:00,596 --> 00:30:04,876 Speaker 1: when you could actually be thriving in other ways. Yeah, yes, yes, totally. 462 00:30:05,236 --> 00:30:08,796 Speaker 1: You know. Everything you're sharing with me right now is 463 00:30:08,836 --> 00:30:13,196 Speaker 1: making me think about the fact that our understanding of 464 00:30:13,196 --> 00:30:18,436 Speaker 1: self is often far flimsier than we might think. It's 465 00:30:18,476 --> 00:30:21,356 Speaker 1: not like you had a brain transplant, Scott, right like you, 466 00:30:21,356 --> 00:30:26,116 Speaker 1: you had this underlying personality all along, this lovable personality. 467 00:30:26,196 --> 00:30:28,516 Speaker 1: And I can say that as your friend, I think 468 00:30:28,596 --> 00:30:32,556 Speaker 1: you are a lovely, interesting, charming person to be around, 469 00:30:33,036 --> 00:30:37,556 Speaker 1: but you had misjudged yourself right, And I do think 470 00:30:37,596 --> 00:30:42,196 Speaker 1: I think we mistakenly believe that because we have first 471 00:30:42,276 --> 00:30:44,996 Speaker 1: person access to who we are in our own minds, 472 00:30:45,076 --> 00:30:50,236 Speaker 1: that somehow our assessments of ourselves are accurate and comprehensive 473 00:30:50,356 --> 00:30:53,756 Speaker 1: and reflect the latest shifts and transformative experiences that we 474 00:30:53,796 --> 00:30:57,796 Speaker 1: have that affect us in turn. But we fall prey 475 00:30:57,876 --> 00:31:02,396 Speaker 1: to many of the same cognitive biases anyway that lead 476 00:31:02,516 --> 00:31:07,436 Speaker 1: us to misunderstand other people or create snapshots of who 477 00:31:07,436 --> 00:31:13,476 Speaker 1: they are that aren't fully comprehensive. And yeah, it's it's 478 00:31:13,516 --> 00:31:16,236 Speaker 1: just making me think about what else have you gotten 479 00:31:16,236 --> 00:31:18,756 Speaker 1: wrong about yourself? Like? What else have I gotten wrong 480 00:31:18,796 --> 00:31:21,676 Speaker 1: about myself? What am I? What am I currently getting 481 00:31:21,716 --> 00:31:24,556 Speaker 1: wrong about myself today that I think I'm right about 482 00:31:24,556 --> 00:31:26,316 Speaker 1: it? It It can go in either direction, like maybe I 483 00:31:26,356 --> 00:31:28,196 Speaker 1: have a totally inflated sense of self and I think 484 00:31:28,236 --> 00:31:31,916 Speaker 1: I'm far more charming than I actually am. Listeners, you 485 00:31:31,916 --> 00:31:36,916 Speaker 1: can let me know offline. But but more seriously, did 486 00:31:36,956 --> 00:31:41,196 Speaker 1: your Jeopardy experience make you revisit other assumptions that you 487 00:31:41,236 --> 00:31:46,596 Speaker 1: had about yourself? It did make me think that there 488 00:31:46,636 --> 00:31:52,676 Speaker 1: are other parts of my personality that I have yet 489 00:31:52,716 --> 00:31:58,756 Speaker 1: to explore, or assumptions about myself that maybe incorrect. I 490 00:31:58,796 --> 00:32:01,196 Speaker 1: feel like I haven't gone far enough down that road 491 00:32:01,556 --> 00:32:06,116 Speaker 1: to actively discover what those things are. It's at least 492 00:32:06,116 --> 00:32:09,516 Speaker 1: planted the thought thought, and I accept that there may 493 00:32:09,556 --> 00:32:13,596 Speaker 1: be things, and so I do try and do new 494 00:32:13,716 --> 00:32:18,476 Speaker 1: things in order to try and stumble across something that 495 00:32:19,196 --> 00:32:23,476 Speaker 1: I may learn about myself. And I know that that 496 00:32:23,596 --> 00:32:28,476 Speaker 1: advice may seem commonplace. But I thought I knew who 497 00:32:28,556 --> 00:32:32,316 Speaker 1: I was at the core, and what I like to 498 00:32:32,356 --> 00:32:34,596 Speaker 1: do and what I was good at, what I wasn't 499 00:32:34,636 --> 00:32:39,956 Speaker 1: good at and I came out with an understanding that 500 00:32:40,036 --> 00:32:43,476 Speaker 1: was that was very different, and I think that's that's 501 00:32:43,556 --> 00:32:46,756 Speaker 1: changed the trajectory of how I lead my life now. 502 00:32:46,836 --> 00:32:50,796 Speaker 1: So I think it's it's having a willingness to say 503 00:32:50,916 --> 00:32:55,676 Speaker 1: yes to situations that may make you uncomfortable, especially in 504 00:32:55,716 --> 00:32:59,916 Speaker 1: a forum where I'm getting feedback from others, because I 505 00:32:59,956 --> 00:33:01,356 Speaker 1: think I kind of rely on that I need. I 506 00:33:01,396 --> 00:33:07,756 Speaker 1: need others to tell me if I'm getting at something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 507 00:33:07,836 --> 00:33:10,436 Speaker 1: So I do try and find opportunities to do that. 508 00:33:10,836 --> 00:33:16,116 Speaker 1: I've yet to have a sea change where I had 509 00:33:16,156 --> 00:33:19,836 Speaker 1: some landmark discovery about myself, but I'm open to the 510 00:33:19,916 --> 00:33:23,916 Speaker 1: idea and I'm going to try and seek that out more. 511 00:33:24,596 --> 00:33:27,156 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's fantastic. And I also think 512 00:33:27,196 --> 00:33:30,036 Speaker 1: it's so reasonable to not have had a sea change. 513 00:33:30,076 --> 00:33:33,276 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like we're getting large swaths of 514 00:33:33,316 --> 00:33:36,956 Speaker 1: things about ourselves wrong. You know, to the extent you're 515 00:33:37,236 --> 00:33:41,076 Speaker 1: relatively honest with yourself. But I think the mere acknowledgement 516 00:33:42,076 --> 00:33:45,916 Speaker 1: that we might be wrong about certain things is a 517 00:33:45,956 --> 00:33:49,036 Speaker 1: critical mental change, one that I think is inspiring for 518 00:33:49,076 --> 00:33:52,956 Speaker 1: a lot of people. Because while it's scary perhaps that 519 00:33:53,036 --> 00:33:56,916 Speaker 1: we may have gotten some things wrong. It's also exciting, right, 520 00:33:56,916 --> 00:34:01,956 Speaker 1: It's like, Wow, what are these unexpected, unanticipated parts of 521 00:34:01,996 --> 00:34:05,516 Speaker 1: myself that I might tap into in these unexpected moments 522 00:34:05,556 --> 00:34:08,116 Speaker 1: in life that it might uncover it, that might make 523 00:34:08,196 --> 00:34:11,116 Speaker 1: me realize that it was laboring under a misconception about 524 00:34:11,116 --> 00:34:13,476 Speaker 1: four years and years and years. And I'm no longer 525 00:34:13,516 --> 00:34:14,796 Speaker 1: going to be helped back by that, and I'm no 526 00:34:14,836 --> 00:34:18,436 Speaker 1: longer going to needlessly suffer. And what I find intriguing 527 00:34:18,476 --> 00:34:22,756 Speaker 1: and interesting about your story is that you didn't go 528 00:34:22,796 --> 00:34:26,356 Speaker 1: on to Jeopardy with this mission to unlock this entirely 529 00:34:26,476 --> 00:34:29,996 Speaker 1: new facet of Scott Minky. You went on because you 530 00:34:29,996 --> 00:34:31,956 Speaker 1: were like, I think I'm good at trivia, and I 531 00:34:31,996 --> 00:34:34,236 Speaker 1: think I can win a lot of money and it 532 00:34:34,236 --> 00:34:38,636 Speaker 1: would be fun. And it is fascinating how the true 533 00:34:38,716 --> 00:34:42,116 Speaker 1: change came after Jeoffardy. You know, you had said earlier 534 00:34:42,156 --> 00:34:44,196 Speaker 1: in our conversation, you know, I had this feeling like 535 00:34:44,196 --> 00:34:46,956 Speaker 1: I looked off into the distance and I thought, my 536 00:34:47,036 --> 00:34:48,796 Speaker 1: life is never going to be the same, or you know, 537 00:34:48,916 --> 00:34:51,556 Speaker 1: my life is going to change forever. Right, Yeah, I 538 00:34:51,556 --> 00:34:53,556 Speaker 1: bet you never thought that this was going to be 539 00:34:53,596 --> 00:34:56,436 Speaker 1: the way in which your life change forever, totally right, 540 00:34:56,636 --> 00:34:59,836 Speaker 1: totally right. It's you know, the ten thousand dollars that 541 00:34:59,876 --> 00:35:08,396 Speaker 1: I won, the wild aspirations of you know, professional implications 542 00:35:08,516 --> 00:35:13,196 Speaker 1: of being on Jeopardy one time, those didn't really come 543 00:35:13,236 --> 00:35:18,116 Speaker 1: to fruition. But I feel like the boost of confidence 544 00:35:18,156 --> 00:35:22,316 Speaker 1: I have just being myself around others is the lasting 545 00:35:22,396 --> 00:35:49,516 Speaker 1: change that has endured. Hey, thanks for listening. Join me 546 00:35:49,596 --> 00:35:52,316 Speaker 1: next week when I talk with doctor Edith Eager, a 547 00:35:52,476 --> 00:35:56,596 Speaker 1: ninety four year old Holocaust survivor. Edith was sixteen years 548 00:35:56,596 --> 00:35:59,836 Speaker 1: old when she her sister and mom and dad were 549 00:35:59,876 --> 00:36:03,956 Speaker 1: put on a train to the Auschwitz concentration camp by 550 00:36:04,116 --> 00:36:08,556 Speaker 1: Mom looked at me and hugged me, and she said, 551 00:36:09,916 --> 00:36:12,716 Speaker 1: we don't know where to be going. We don't know 552 00:36:12,796 --> 00:36:16,796 Speaker 1: what's going to happen. Just remember no one can take 553 00:36:16,836 --> 00:36:20,156 Speaker 1: away from you what you put here in your own mind. 554 00:36:20,516 --> 00:36:33,596 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happened. A Slight Change of Plans 555 00:36:33,676 --> 00:36:36,676 Speaker 1: is created written an executive produce by me Maya Schunker. 556 00:36:37,276 --> 00:36:40,596 Speaker 1: The Slight Change Family includes Tyler Green our senior producer, 557 00:36:40,876 --> 00:36:44,476 Speaker 1: Emily Rostak, our producer and fact checker, Jan Guera, our 558 00:36:44,516 --> 00:36:48,156 Speaker 1: senior editor, Ben Taliday, our sound engineer, and Neil la 559 00:36:48,196 --> 00:36:52,036 Speaker 1: Belle our Executive producer. Louis Scara wrote our theme song 560 00:36:52,156 --> 00:36:55,556 Speaker 1: and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals. A Slight Change 561 00:36:55,556 --> 00:36:58,476 Speaker 1: of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries, So big 562 00:36:58,516 --> 00:37:03,076 Speaker 1: thanks to everyone there, including Nicolemrano, Maggie Taylor, Eric Sandler, 563 00:37:03,196 --> 00:37:07,156 Speaker 1: Heather Faine, and Carly Nigliori, and of course a very 564 00:37:07,196 --> 00:37:10,356 Speaker 1: special thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow A Slight 565 00:37:10,436 --> 00:37:22,276 Speaker 1: Change of Plans on Instagram at doctor Maya Shunker. Jimmy 566 00:37:22,396 --> 00:37:25,276 Speaker 1: was recently preparing for a trivia show, right, what was 567 00:37:25,396 --> 00:37:28,276 Speaker 1: what was that? Like? Oh my gosh, I feel like 568 00:37:28,316 --> 00:37:33,716 Speaker 1: it it tested our otherwise happy marriage, Scott. So, I 569 00:37:33,756 --> 00:37:36,196 Speaker 1: mean he became obsessive about it, right, like everything was 570 00:37:36,236 --> 00:37:42,356 Speaker 1: about everything was about learning facts. Every conversation between us 571 00:37:42,756 --> 00:37:46,556 Speaker 1: felt clinical in a way. But then there was this 572 00:37:46,596 --> 00:37:49,916 Speaker 1: one really tender moment where it was the night before 573 00:37:49,916 --> 00:37:53,676 Speaker 1: our five year wedding anniversary, and Jimmy and I don't usually, 574 00:37:53,996 --> 00:37:56,556 Speaker 1: you know, do the tradition stuff, so I didn't even 575 00:37:56,956 --> 00:37:59,836 Speaker 1: I wasn't really thinking about it. He he never really remembers, 576 00:37:59,876 --> 00:38:03,716 Speaker 1: but suddenly he's laying there and he's like, oh my god, 577 00:38:03,716 --> 00:38:06,676 Speaker 1: tomorrow's our five year wedding anniversary. I was like, oh 578 00:38:06,716 --> 00:38:08,996 Speaker 1: my god, Jimmy, his heart is softening, like as he 579 00:38:09,156 --> 00:38:11,356 Speaker 1: gets older, he's getting a little more nostalgic. This is 580 00:38:11,396 --> 00:38:16,836 Speaker 1: so great. And I hear him muttering paper, cotton, leather, 581 00:38:17,556 --> 00:38:21,676 Speaker 1: and I realized he's confirming that he knows all the 582 00:38:21,716 --> 00:38:26,076 Speaker 1: anniversary gifts by year, because it is actually a trivia 583 00:38:26,156 --> 00:38:30,196 Speaker 1: challenge that's rough, that is rough.