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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern.

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Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 3: We start with eyes on Germany by way of Ukraine,

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Speaker 3: as the Ukraine Contact Group meeting convenes in Germany with

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Speaker 3: key international allies, the Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin announcing

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Speaker 3: thirty one ABRAMS tanks will arrive in Germany next month,

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Speaker 3: with roughly two hundred and fifty Ukrainian troops expected to

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Speaker 3: begin training on these tanks shortly thereafter.

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Speaker 4: But no fighter jets.

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Speaker 3: Knowing they still loom large on the wish list for Ukraine,

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Speaker 3: as we discussed yesterday on Balance of Power on Bloomberg

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Speaker 3: TV with Urisak, who advises Ukraine's Defence Minister.

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Speaker 5: There are still certain things on a wish list if

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Speaker 5: you like, which we have not received and we hope

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Speaker 5: to receive. They include, for example, long range missiles, They

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Speaker 5: include fighter jets F sixteen's, and of course we need

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Speaker 5: more air defense systems.

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Speaker 3: But not so much by Lloyd Austin when asked by

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Speaker 3: a reporter of the US, we'll consider sending the F

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Speaker 3: sixteens to Ukraine in the footsteps of fellow allies Poland

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Speaker 3: and Slovakia. For now, we're focused on the ground right.

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Speaker 6: Now, what we all believe is what Ukraine needs most

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Speaker 6: urgently is ground based air defense capability. That is what

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Speaker 6: has enabled them to prevent the Russian air forces from

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Speaker 6: having a meaningful impact in this fight.

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Speaker 3: This is where we begin the conversation with Ward Carroll,

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Speaker 3: delighted to say he's back with US military analysts, of course,

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Speaker 3: former naval aviator who flew in F fourteen jets helping

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Speaker 3: to reinforce and enforce the no fly zone over Iraq.

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Speaker 3: Of course, the namesake of the Ward Carol YouTube channel. Commander,

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Speaker 3: it's great to have you back. Welcome back to Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 3: We've spoken very specifically in the past about the weapons

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Speaker 3: systems that would work better in Ukraine as they attempt

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Speaker 3: to close the skies to use President Zelenski's term, ahead

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Speaker 3: of this spring offensive that could be beginning as we speak.

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Speaker 3: Are they correct that F sixteen's would be a game changer.

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Speaker 7: I don't have to be a game changer. It's sort

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Speaker 7: of an additive capability I think Secretary of Austin is

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Speaker 7: at once right and a little bit wrong. The focus

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Speaker 7: is on the ground war. I'm happy to hear that

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Speaker 7: they're getting the APRAMS tanks almost eight months ahead of

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Speaker 7: when the original scheduler was getting them two Ukraine. That's

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Speaker 7: a game changer potentially. So when we talk about the

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Speaker 7: air threat in the air war, we got to think holistically.

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Speaker 7: It's not so much just dogfighting canon F sixteen be

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Speaker 7: to mid twenty nine or an SU twenty five. It's

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Speaker 7: more do you have suppression of enny air defense jamming

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Speaker 7: capability that will shut down the air defenses so that

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Speaker 7: these F sixteens won't just troll into a st and

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Speaker 7: gets shot down on the first sortie, which is the

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Speaker 7: fear of a lot of pundits and people who understand

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Speaker 7: the nature of the air war there. So certainly whatever

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Speaker 7: amount of SYS teams we're talking about, they'll help. That's

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Speaker 7: a great airplane. I've flown the Navy aggressor variant of it.

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Speaker 7: It's an airplane that was ahead of its time. It's

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Speaker 7: still very very lethal. I know in the teaser you

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Speaker 7: were talking about other European nations that have given airplanes

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Speaker 7: so Slovakia gave four Make twenty nines, which were Make

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Speaker 7: twenty nine a's that they didn't want. So that's not

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Speaker 7: an amazing game change of capability. It looks great on paper,

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Speaker 7: but we need to think this through instead of just

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Speaker 7: sort of throwing equipment and munitions at them just because

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Speaker 7: it looks good on a spreadsheet or it sounds good,

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Speaker 7: you know when we're at NATO headquarters or whatever. So yes,

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Speaker 7: they need airplanes, they do, but we need to think

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Speaker 7: more broadly about the defense and depth capability that's going

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Speaker 7: to win this war.

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Speaker 3: Urisak made the point, and he's here in Washington and

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Speaker 3: Germany making the ask directly of the Defense Department and

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Speaker 3: hoping to come home with something to show for it,

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Speaker 3: that F sixteen's would be much more effective than, for instance,

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Speaker 3: the mid twenty nine that you mentioned those Russian made MiGs,

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Speaker 3: because they're more advanced, he says, in just having them

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Speaker 3: would be a deterrent that when Russia seeson F sixteen

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Speaker 3: take off from Ukraine, that they stand down. Is that realistic?

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Speaker 7: No, that's not realistic, I think. And again, when you

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Speaker 7: say F sixteen, there's a number of different models. So

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Speaker 7: the CJ model has harm missiles, the any radiation missiles

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Speaker 7: that if you put a CJ with a straight stick

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Speaker 7: fighter F sixteen, now you've had the robust presentation that

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Speaker 7: I'm talking about. One of these guys can shut down

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Speaker 7: the radar or keep it from illuminating in fear of

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Speaker 7: getting hit by a harm and the other one can patrol,

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Speaker 7: drop bombs, look for Russian airplanes whatever. So again we

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Speaker 7: got to think this through. What models are we giving

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Speaker 7: them and in what numbers? You know. So I'm just

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Speaker 7: afraid that it's too too all akart in terms of

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Speaker 7: the ask from time to time.

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Speaker 3: Now I understand, and there's been reluctance here in the US.

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Speaker 3: The Pentagon, the White House would tell you that this

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Speaker 3: would have an additional escalatory effect, that Russia sees US

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Speaker 3: providing fighter jets and could react on its own. Or

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Speaker 3: to your point, you get an F sixteen from the

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Speaker 3: US that's shot down, we get in a direct conflict

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Speaker 3: potentially with Russia. Do you see that kind of creep

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Speaker 3: coming from a gift like that.

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Speaker 7: We're already past creep, you know. I think these discussions

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Speaker 7: about escalatory are from a year ago. You know, we're

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Speaker 7: all in and so I think what this administration has

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Speaker 7: chosen to do. Obviously all of Congress doesn't agree. But

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Speaker 7: what this administration is chosen to do is support Ukraine

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Speaker 7: in terms of repelling the invaders. And I entreat the

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Speaker 7: listeners to go to the Institute for the Study of

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Speaker 7: War and look at their interactive map, because that map

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Speaker 7: has not changed for the last nine months. So, you know,

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Speaker 7: if we think this is the status quoth in Russia wins.

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Speaker 7: They carved out the don Boss and they almost have

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Speaker 7: a land bridge to Odessa or important seaport on the

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Speaker 7: black seat. What President Olinski wants to do is put

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Speaker 7: them is push that all the red you see or

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Speaker 7: pinkies on that map, make it blue, including Crimea, and

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Speaker 7: so that that's a that's a bold, you know strategy.

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Speaker 7: But that's where the Ukrainians are, you know, and I

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Speaker 7: think the Western world should take a long look at

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Speaker 7: how sound that is with respect to you know, deterring

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Speaker 7: Putin from further aggression and you know, stabilizing the world order.

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Speaker 7: So again I think we're just talking about what jets

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Speaker 7: should they get. I've had a number of episodes that

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Speaker 7: we're talking about you because Swedish jet jets should they get,

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Speaker 7: you know, megs, should they get sixteens? That that's sort

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Speaker 7: of myopic, that's looking at the problem through soda straws.

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Speaker 7: We say the problem is broader.

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Speaker 4: It's great to talk to you. Word.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for your insights, unique as ever insights from Ward Carrol.

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Speaker 3: He's an expert, of course, he flew inn F fourteen

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Speaker 3: tomcasts for fifteen years after graduating from the Naval Academy,

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Speaker 3: named Naval Institute Press Author of the Year for his

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Speaker 3: novel Punk's War, and he referred to the War Carol

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Speaker 3: YouTube channel. I suggest you check it out if you're

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Speaker 3: interested in topics like this. We had another voice here

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Speaker 3: in Kelly Grico, senior fellow at the Stimson Center, with

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Speaker 3: an eye on this request. Kelly, thank you so much

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Speaker 3: for joining us here. I believe that you would agree

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Speaker 3: with Ward that the F sixteens might be more than

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Speaker 3: Ukraine needs. Maybe you can frame this in a different sense.

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Speaker 3: What would be your answer to Urisch's request?

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Speaker 8: Well, first, thank you for having me. I would frame

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Speaker 8: it a little differently and the sense of I think

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Speaker 8: it's about strategy and if we're thinking about what I

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Speaker 8: do think the air wars is incredibly important to this

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Speaker 8: war and particularly Ukraine's ability to defend against the Russians.

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Speaker 8: But their real success has been in denying air superiority

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Speaker 8: to a much larger and more advanced Russian air force,

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Speaker 8: so that the Russians are not able to employ those

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Speaker 8: aircraft on the battlefield in a very effective way. And

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Speaker 8: the key thing then for the United States is to

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Speaker 8: support Ukraine and being able to continue with this successful strategy.

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Speaker 8: So essentially, they've used ground based air defenses, they're mobile,

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Speaker 8: they're distributed to be able to make the airspace so

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Speaker 8: threatening to Russian aircraft and we've seen lots of them

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Speaker 8: shot down that the Russians are essentially not operating very

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Speaker 8: often over Ukrainian airspace. I don't I think that switching

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Speaker 8: to the F sixteen is an attempt almost to make

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Speaker 8: the Ukrainian Air Force into the American Air Force. But

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Speaker 8: Ukraine faces a very different problem set. They are at

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Speaker 8: a quantitative and qualitative disadvantage against the Russians, and so

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Speaker 8: rather than fighting the Russians symmetrically with F sixteens, it's

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Speaker 8: a far more effective and smarter approach to continue with

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Speaker 8: an asymmetric strategy that's been successful so far.

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Speaker 4: That's fascinating.

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Speaker 3: I want you to go back to our interview yesterday

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Speaker 3: Kelly with Urisak, who is an advisor to Ukraine's defense minister,

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Speaker 3: making the case for US on balance of power TV

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Speaker 3: on Bloomberg.

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Speaker 5: Air supremacy and air dominance are critical for any successful

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Speaker 5: military operations and without it, Without it, there is a

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Speaker 5: radical risk to the success of these operations, and of

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Speaker 5: course there is a risk of more loss of life

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Speaker 5: for us, for the Ukrainian Army. We value the life

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Speaker 5: of our soldiers, right, We don't treat them as canon forder.

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Speaker 5: We want to be successful in liberating our lands, and

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Speaker 5: we know that. You know fighter jets F sixteen's, there

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Speaker 5: are more than four thousand of those around the world,

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Speaker 5: and we just need.

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Speaker 3: Forty, just need forty, Kelly. But you think it's the

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Speaker 3: wrong idea, Yes, I think.

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Speaker 8: It's fundamentally the wrong idea, and I think it would

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Speaker 8: be a major strategic mistake actually on the part of Ukraine.

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Speaker 8: I would just one of the things I think is

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Speaker 8: interesting that he commented on sort of the United States

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Speaker 8: and its own doctrine, and I would just say two

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Speaker 8: things about that. One is that Ukraine itself has provided

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Speaker 8: the best evidence that air superiority is not required for

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Speaker 8: military success on the ground. What is required, what isn't essential,

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Speaker 8: is the ability to deny air superiority to your adversary.

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Speaker 8: And if you'll notice, that's exactly what Secretary Austin is

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Speaker 8: emphasizing with the dispection about your defense. So I think,

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Speaker 8: you know, we even saw Ukraine on the counter offensive

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Speaker 8: last Hall without air superiority, and that was in part

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Speaker 8: enabled by that denial of air superiory or to Russia.

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Speaker 8: And the second thing I would just say is that

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Speaker 8: you know, you know, the United States has its own

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Speaker 8: biases towards offensive air operations, and we see that in

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Speaker 8: United States doctrine. I actually think there's a broader lesson

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Speaker 8: here for the United States as well from the Ukraine

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Speaker 8: War and other wars of recent times about how mobile,

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Speaker 8: ground based air defenses are really increasing the advantage of

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Speaker 8: defense relative to offense in air operations. So I think,

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Speaker 8: you know, I understand his desire to advocate for the

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Speaker 8: F sixteen, but I actually think the evidence on the

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Speaker 8: ground and in the air in Ukraine actually supports sending

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Speaker 8: more air defenses, not F sixteens.

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Speaker 3: So why aren't we just Pilon, Patriot missile systems and

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Speaker 3: high mars into Ukraine. I know that we're already sending some,

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Speaker 3: but they say they still need a lot more.

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Speaker 8: Yes, I mean, one answer is I wish we could.

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Speaker 8: You know, this is partly that we're dealing with the

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Speaker 8: last thirty years that the United States other Western countries

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Speaker 8: were so dominant in the air space that we neglected

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Speaker 8: our air defenses and we don't have as much as

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Speaker 8: we would like now on offer to Ukraine. That said,

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Speaker 8: I do think there are some options here.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 8: One recently there's been discussion about using the Sea Sparrow

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Speaker 8: to try to replace some of the missiles for the

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Speaker 8: boot launchers that Ukraine has. There's also I think, you know,

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Speaker 8: there's going to maybe be increasing pressure perhaps on in

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Speaker 8: Israel and other countries to perhaps offer some air defenses.

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Speaker 8: You know, every air defense that we can get to

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Speaker 8: Ukraine is going to really matter now, particularly those longer

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Speaker 8: range And I think the other piece of it is

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Speaker 8: about strategy, because the reality is there not enough air

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Speaker 8: defense is probably in the world right now to create

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Speaker 8: the kind of impenetrable air defense bubble we would love

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Speaker 8: to have in Ukraine, and so it's going to be

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Speaker 8: about strategy in Ukraine making some really tough choices that

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Speaker 8: are forced upon them by the war between when do

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Speaker 8: they engage targets coming in from Russian aircraft and missiles

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Speaker 8: and drones using up some of their missile capability and

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Speaker 8: these launchers, and when do they decide the priority needs

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Speaker 8: to be this persistent our ability to persistently threaten Russian

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Speaker 8: aircraft and so we may actually have to take some losses,

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Speaker 8: accept some losses in order to preserve our missile stocks.

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Speaker 8: And that's I will recognize that is a horror choice

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Speaker 8: to have to make, particularly given the Russians target Ukrainians,

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Speaker 8: you know, cities and their infrastructure. But this is an

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Speaker 8: unfortunate reality of this war.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're shooting that apartment buildings. What do we need

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Speaker 3: to be doing here then, with our own our own

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Speaker 3: security in mind, Kelly, when does the restocking begin?

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Speaker 7: Yees?

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Speaker 8: So, I mean there's a lot of discussion now about

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Speaker 8: ramping up production for these things, and that's that's being discussed.

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Speaker 8: I think there's you know, that's one issue is the

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Speaker 8: increasing production and is certainly increasing missile stocks in particular

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Speaker 8: for air defenses for you know, all sorts of systems.

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Speaker 8: The other piece, though, I think we need to also

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Speaker 8: look at is whether we have the right kinds of

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Speaker 8: air defense systems moving forward as well, including the Patriot system.

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Speaker 8: You know, in Ukraine they've been really successful because they're

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Speaker 8: so nimble at moving their air defense systems so quickly.

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Speaker 8: You know, they fire and they turn off the radars

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Speaker 8: and they move. They can move that system in about

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Speaker 8: ten to fifteen minutes after firing. You look at the

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Speaker 8: Patriot system, it takes more closer to an hour to

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Speaker 8: be able to do that. And so that might have

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Speaker 8: worked in the last thirty years and you know, an

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Speaker 8: environment that wasn't quite as contested, but moving forward, I

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Speaker 8: think we need to really start looking at our own

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Speaker 8: air defenses and including if we have the right systems.

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Speaker 3: Kelly Grico the panel's next. This is Bloomberg. You're listening

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Speaker 3: to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the program live

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Speaker 3: weekdays at one Eastern.

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Speaker 1: On Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com,

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Speaker 1: and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live

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Speaker 1: on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just

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Speaker 1: say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 3: As we assemble the panel, time to hear from Rick

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Speaker 3: and Jennie on this with the Ukraine Defense Contact Group

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Speaker 3: meeting in Germany. In questions about what we should be

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Speaker 3: providing and some answers as to what we are providing.

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Speaker 3: Something we just discussed with Ward Carroll and Kelly Grico.

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Speaker 3: The tanks are on the way. Pretty remarkable as the

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Speaker 3: Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin announces thirty one ABRAMS one to

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Speaker 3: one tanks will arrive next month in Germany. They were

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Speaker 3: not expected to arrive until months after that. General Mark Milly,

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Speaker 3: of course, the chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,

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Speaker 3: speaking to the level of training that will accompany this equipment, there's.

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Speaker 9: About twenty five hundred Ukrainian soldiers conducting training right now

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Speaker 9: in Germany. Another eight thousand, eight hundred almost nine thousand

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Speaker 9: have completed training and have returned to Ukraine. And there

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Speaker 9: are sixty five Ukrainians that completed training on patried missile

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Speaker 9: systems just recently.

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Speaker 3: Rick Davis and Genie Schanzano with us here for some

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Speaker 3: analysis on this. Rick, are we having the right conversation

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Speaker 3: because it feels a little bit like a rerun Here

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Speaker 3: Ukraine asks for jets, we send something else. But in

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Speaker 3: this case, as we heard from both of our last guests,

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Speaker 3: these M one tanks might actually make a difference, despite

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Speaker 3: doubts to that effect a couple of months ago.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, no question. This narrative continues to share. And the

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Speaker 10: only people who seem to get it right of the Ukrainians.

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Speaker 10: I mean, they actually ask for all these things, and

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Speaker 10: they hope they get them all when they ask for them.

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Speaker 10: And of course the Biden administration's policy has been to

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Speaker 10: sort of you know, hand out this stuff in various tranches.

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Speaker 10: And the debate around the tanks was really interesting because

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Speaker 10: you know, basically, our allies forced us into committing to

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Speaker 10: these tanks before they would commit their tanks. And we

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Speaker 10: kept telling everybody who would listen, oh, you know, they're

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Speaker 10: not going to be able to figure out how to

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Speaker 10: drive a Neighborhm's tank. They're so sophisticated and it's so inefficient,

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Speaker 10: you know. And now it's like, hey, hurry those things up,

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Speaker 10: because we got to you know, spring offensive, and you know,

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Speaker 10: next thing, you know, what was supposed to take a year,

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Speaker 10: you know, has already started to arrive a few months later.

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Speaker 10: So it's so hard to sort of see through the

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Speaker 10: smoke of war here and try to understand what this

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Speaker 10: administration's policy is. But I feel like it's groundhog Day.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 10: We hear this request from the Ukrainians and we say no,

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Speaker 10: and then we give them to them. And the longest

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Speaker 10: holdout is the discussion you just had around F sixteen's

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Speaker 10: and we'll see, I mean, my bed is a couple

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Speaker 10: months from now, we're going to see a few F

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Speaker 10: sixteens flying over the Ukraine airspace.

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Speaker 3: That would be the trend, that would continue the trend. Genie,

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Speaker 3: you say no for six months, then you say maybe,

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Speaker 3: Then all of a sudden they show up earlier than

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Speaker 3: we thought and we're training Ukrainian pilots.

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Speaker 4: Is that how this one ends?

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Speaker 11: It is? You know, it's almost like a big tease.

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Speaker 11: And to Rick's point, we've seen it over and over

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Speaker 11: and over again. And I think you're in your conversation

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Speaker 11: with Ward Carroll, you noted that the argument has been about,

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Speaker 11: you know, we don't want to escalate. Well, the reality

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Speaker 11: is he said we were all in. We need to

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Speaker 11: get over that. That's about a year old at this point,

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Speaker 11: but it's what we keep hearing, and you know, I

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Speaker 11: can't help but think that the administration is concerned because

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Speaker 11: while support in the US remains fairly high, like sixty

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Speaker 11: nine seventy percent of Americans support, there are signs that

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Speaker 11: that is diminishing, and we've got a president set to

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Speaker 11: potentially announce he is going to run for the presidency

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Speaker 11: again next week, and so I think that they may

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Speaker 11: be looking at these polls and thinking we got a

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Speaker 11: slow walk this, and that's what we are seeing. But

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Speaker 11: the reality is, if they don't give Ukraine what it

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Speaker 11: needs to make these moves this spring, we may be

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Speaker 11: sitting here next year, in the middle of a campaign year,

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Speaker 11: having the same discussion. And I think it's going to

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Speaker 11: be harder to have at that point.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's going to be harder, and that, you know,

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Speaker 3: to the point of Yurisak, who spoke to us yesterday

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Speaker 3: advising the Ukrainian Defense minister. His point was, why are

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Speaker 3: we waiting? Why don't we throw everything at this now?

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Speaker 5: Why waste time? Why give Russia the opportunity to build

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Speaker 5: up their capabilities? Why not end it soon?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 5: Our thinking, our thinking is we need to change our

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Speaker 5: approach from we will stand with Ukraine for as long

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Speaker 5: as it takes to Let's finish it as soon as possible,

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Speaker 5: because every day results in the death of our people

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Speaker 5: and the death of our soldiers on the battlefield. Why procrastinate.

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Speaker 3: I know there's a bit of nuance there, Rick, but

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Speaker 3: how important is that shifting postures? So, hey, we're here

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Speaker 3: for as long as you need us to. No, let's

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Speaker 3: get this done now.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 10: Look, I mean I think the first thing he's got

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Speaker 10: to do, and I totally agree with his approach on this,

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Speaker 10: is convinced the Biden administration that they can actually win

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Speaker 10: this fight. I mean, when you look at the approach

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Speaker 10: we've taken since day one, we've been sort of, you know,

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Speaker 10: basically cheerleaders for the Russian outcome. Right, we keep saying, oh, well,

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Speaker 10: you know they were going to be in Kiev in

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Speaker 10: the first week. Well that didn't turn out. Well, you know,

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Speaker 10: it's going to be really tough to get a you know,

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Speaker 10: Russians out of there. You know they're going to take

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Speaker 10: advantage of the winter. Well, you know, the Russians actually moved.

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Speaker 4: Ahead in the winter.

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Speaker 10: And now it's it's like there's no sensibility around the

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Speaker 10: idea that the Ukrainians can actually win this war. And

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Speaker 10: of course these leaked documents that everybody's been talking about

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Speaker 10: for the last week, you know, kind of reinforces that.

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Speaker 3: And so at the end.

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Speaker 10: Of the day, this administration has got to decide do

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Speaker 10: they want to win or do they want a stalemate?

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Speaker 10: And from what I can tell, they've been playing into

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Speaker 10: a stalemate. And whether you call that escalation or de escalation,

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Speaker 10: I don't care, h'm I'm with your I think we

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Speaker 10: ought to We ought to get as much equipment and

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Speaker 10: training into that country as we can to try and

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Speaker 10: you know, ensure that the so that there's the integrity

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Speaker 10: of Ukraine is is is maintained, which is how we

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Speaker 10: feel about every country.

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Speaker 3: Just so we understand though, Rick, when you say the administration,

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Speaker 3: do you include the Pentagon?

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Speaker 10: Sure, Look, at the end of the day, the Pentagon

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Speaker 10: doesn't get to make these decisions. They make recommendations in

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Speaker 10: the White House.

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Speaker 3: But you hear very convincing arguments from Mark Milly and

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Speaker 3: Lloyd Austin, you have to think that that they're speaking honestly.

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Speaker 10: Right well, I think the honesty is that they want

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Speaker 10: to be helpful. And then the rubber hits the road

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Speaker 10: in meetings that are happening right now with the contact group,

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Speaker 10: you know, where they say, Okay, here's what we're willing

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Speaker 10: to give you. And some of that is limitations of

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Speaker 10: materials and training and some of those limitations of money.

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Speaker 7: Uh.

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Speaker 10: But when we talk about these kinds of things, where

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Speaker 10: in the areas where there are no limitations, and we

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Speaker 10: and we've withheld equipment like attack ems because we worry

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Speaker 10: about escalation and the only people who don't seem moreorried

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Speaker 10: about escalation of the Russians, And so why don't we

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Speaker 10: play at the same level of the game?

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Speaker 3: Ginny, you talked about briefly the politics that are creeping

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Speaker 3: in on this, the debate here in Washington about whether

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Speaker 3: we should be spending.

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Speaker 4: All this money.

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Speaker 3: That's going to get a lot harder when we have

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Speaker 3: a presidential campaign underway in earnest We understand Joe Biden

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Speaker 3: is going to make some sort of video announcement next

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Speaker 3: week and then it's on and that's going to change

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Speaker 3: the contours of this conversation. Arguing, I think to your

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Speaker 3: point that this window is closing even faster it is.

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Speaker 11: It's the election. It is quite frankly, war fatigue that

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Speaker 11: happens all the time. It is the expense, you know,

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Speaker 11: fifty billion and twenty twenty two, forty five billion, twenty

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Speaker 11: twenty three, the thousands of lives lost on the Ukrainian side,

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Speaker 11: and the reality for some Americans that while they support

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Speaker 11: Ukraine and they do not support Russia's invasion of Ukraine,

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Speaker 11: they think we have our own domestic problems inflation, rising

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Speaker 11: prices that need to be addressed. And I think part

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Speaker 11: of this has to do with the Biden administration taking

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Speaker 11: the time to continue to make the case that this

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Speaker 11: is a national security issue for the US, that we

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Speaker 11: are not throwing this money at the Ukraine into this

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Speaker 11: war in a way to you know, somehow just give

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Speaker 11: it away somewhere else, but that this matters to us.

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Speaker 11: And you know, the President has done that on occasion,

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Speaker 11: but I think at this level of funding, you're going

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Speaker 11: to have to keep making that case. And I'm not

436
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 11: sure they've been able to do that in a sustained way.

437
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 11: And in their defense, it's hard to do that in

438
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 11: a sustained way over years, which is why the fatigue

439
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 11: starts to creep in. We've heard that on both the

440
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 11: Republican side and the Democratic side. If that starts to

441
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 11: close in, it may move into the all important middle.

442
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 3: Meantime, Rick, we're nowhere on a budget and it looks

443
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 3: like it's going to end in a deal eventually between

444
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 3: Speaker McCarthy and Joe Biden. Moderates are getting a little

445
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 3: worried about this on both sides of the aisle.

446
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 4: What does it mean for defense spending?

447
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 10: Well, I think that one of the things that defense hawks,

448
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 10: especially in the Senate are concerned about with this budget

449
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 10: strategy that the Speaker has is the limitations in the

450
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 10: growth of the budget over time and how that will

451
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 10: ultimately impact the defense spending because defense has been growing

452
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 10: much more than one percent, you know, on an annualized basis,

453
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 10: and so if everyone agrees to this kind of deal

454
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 10: that's on the table today, there's real concern that we

455
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 10: don't have the kind of growth in the defense line

456
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 10: that we need to be able to address the issues

457
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 10: in the Ukraine War or be able to ensure the

458
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 10: necessary deterrence to China's interests and ambitions in the South

459
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 10: China Sea.

460
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 4: Well that's it, Genie.

461
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 3: Should another conflict break out, that's going to change the

462
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,360
Speaker 3: conversation around defense funding pretty quickly, isn't it.

463
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 11: It will? And you know that creates a real challenge

464
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 11: for Republicans. But quite frankly, everybody in Congress in terms

465
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 11: of spending, you know, they have made this case about

466
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 11: the deficit and the need to cut spending and the

467
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 11: need to trim it. It's very hard to do if

468
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 11: you just go after discretionary domestic spending and raises this

469
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 11: issue of defense. And we've already heard. You know, we

470
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 11: have representatives in Congress looking at China wargames and saying,

471
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 11: we have a real challenge on our hand. Should China

472
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 11: invade Taiwan in the next year, two years, three years,

473
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 11: that has an impact on our defense spending. And so

474
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 11: all of these conversations are going to come into place.

475
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 11: And what are the Republicans conjerors doing right now? They're

476
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 11: talking about a bill that has absolutely no chance. It

477
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 11: may start a conversation, but has absolutely no chance of

478
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 11: passing the Senate or being signed. So I support it

479
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 11: starting a conversation, But it's an awful lot of time

480
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 11: to spend when time is limited, as Congress has like

481
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 11: twenty days left before the potential June d Day.

482
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's only so many plates we can keep spinning

483
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 3: in the air at once. Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis,

484
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 3: our signature panel back with more on twenty twenty four.

485
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 3: We've got new numbers on the Republican side here, not

486
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 3: looking great for Ron DeSantis the latest Wall Street Journal

487
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 3: poll out, and Joe Biden looks like he's going to

488
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 3: announce something next week.

489
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 4: We'll have that ahead.

490
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on Catch us Live

491
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio

492
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on demand

493
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast.

494
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 3: President buying Biden, I should say, is eyeing a re

495
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 3: election announcement? Easy for me to say as soon as

496
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 3: next week? Biden eyeing, Yeah, a reelector announcement. It's going

497
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 3: to come in the form of a video, according to

498
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 3: Bloomberg News. All this as Ronda Santis turns a fourteen

499
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 3: point advantage into a thirteen point deficit according to the

500
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 3: latest poll from the Wall Street Journal. Let's reassemble the

501
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 3: panel for more on this. Rick Davis and Genie Shanzeno,

502
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 3: who can get the words out easier than me? Sometimes

503
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 3: as we consider the race here and Joe Biden, of

504
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 3: course hasn't been you know, very cagy about the fact

505
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 3: that he runs again at the Easter Egg Roll said

506
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 3: as much to Al Roker. This is the president and

507
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 3: Roker on NBC. I was just wondering, mister President, will

508
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 3: you be taking part in your Easter egg roles after

509
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 3: planning on after twenty twenty five at least three or

510
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 3: four more, at least three or four more.

511
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 12: Maybe maybe five, maybe five, maybe six?

512
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 10: Are you?

513
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: Are you saying that you would be taking.

514
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 4: Part in the upcoming electional.

515
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 3: Twenty one out of it out your rolland anger.

516
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 12: Being you know, the guy who pushed it out.

517
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 13: Come on, help the brother out.

518
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 2: I'm planning on running out.

519
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 3: I'm planning on running out, just not ready to announce

520
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 3: it yet. And I guess that's going to come in

521
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 3: some form on Tuesday. It's going to be a video,

522
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 3: which is I guess what you do?

523
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 9: Now?

524
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 3: Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano are with us.

525
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 4: Genie, is this smart? Now?

526
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 3: Why not wait a little longer? We still haven't even

527
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 3: seen the Republican field come together yet.

528
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 4: Why the rush?

529
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm still trying to count. How many years does

530
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 11: he think he will serve if he does run and win.

531
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 11: If addressing the math, yeah, you know, I think he

532
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 11: we hear he is a bit superstitious. So if he does,

533
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 11: and I think there's a big question. Marqueerre really you know,

534
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 11: announced via a video on Tuesday. It would be on

535
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 11: the anniversary of his winning announcement last time, so you know,

536
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 11: he may have a rabbit in his pocket. I don't

537
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 11: know something like that, but you know the time, I

538
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 11: think there's been mixed feelings on this. We've heard from

539
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 11: inside his campaign, but I think he and and the

540
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,479
Speaker 11: First Lady have not been shy about publicly saying they're running.

541
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 11: This allows them to do the fundraising they want to do.

542
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 11: And of course, as polls show Donald Trump having an

543
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 11: increasingly sizable lead against Ron DeSantis, I think he does

544
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 11: feel that he has won against Trump in the past

545
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 11: and he is the guy to do it again, regardless

546
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 11: of concerns about his age, even from inside his own party.

547
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 3: Rick, You've made the point that there's certainly no rush

548
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 3: here for the sitting president to do this. It turns

549
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 3: him into a candidate and we start, you know, I

550
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 3: have to report finances and all the stuff that comes

551
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 3: with making things official. What's behind this is he sending

552
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 3: a message to other Democrats who are getting itchy.

553
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 10: I doubt if it's too much the other Democrats getting itchy,

554
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 10: although I would remind the President that three out of

555
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 10: four Americans don't want him to run, and seventy percent

556
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:07,719
Speaker 10: don't want Trump.

557
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 4: So if both of them would.

558
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,239
Speaker 10: Just take a step back and listen to America and

559
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 10: find another person to endorse in this campaign, we might

560
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 10: have something other than a geriatric Olympics in November of

561
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 10: twenty twenty four. But yeah, look, I mean he's he's

562
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 10: not under any stress to win his party's nomination, and

563
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 10: they will rally around him once he announces, So whether

564
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 10: that's on Tuesday or ten tuesdays from now, that's pretty

565
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 10: much a likelihood that will occur. Why you want to

566
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 10: get into this political cycle when you see your Republican

567
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 10: opponents destroying each other. I mean, I think it's a

568
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 10: really good time to stay out of the narrative. But

569
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 10: his folks want to get going. They probably need to

570
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 10: raise some money, and I guess you know, if they

571
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 10: think they're going to run against Donald Trump, they're probably

572
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 10: anxious to start painting that pick sure, while Republicans are

573
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 10: doing the same thing, and that would be a decidedly

574
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 10: negative picture of Donald Trump to.

575
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 3: The Republican side, Jennie, the latest Wall Street Journal poll

576
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 3: has Rond De Santis trailing Donald Trump by fourteen points thirteen.

577
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,479
Speaker 3: Make that he was leading him by fourteen points. So

578
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: it's Trump fifty one percent to thirty eight percent upon

579
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 3: likely Republican primary voters. He's just watching the numbers continue

580
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,479
Speaker 3: to decline here. Does he need to announce before this

581
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 3: gets worse? Or should he reconsider?

582
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 11: See what a good indictment can do for you? May

583
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 11: you pull numbers go up? You look at Real Clear

584
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 11: Politics average. A month ago, Trump was ahead fifteen sixteen points.

585
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 11: He's now twenty nine points ahead of the governor. So

586
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 11: I do think time is running a little bit short

587
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 11: for Ronda Santas. He is being hit on all sides

588
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 11: in his home state of Florida by his own members

589
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 11: of his own legislature down there, members of Congress, former

590
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 11: members of Congress. You know, this has been a bad

591
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 11: few weeks for the governor and he is going to

592
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,239
Speaker 11: really have to figure out a way out of this.

593
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 11: And one thing we keep hearing over and over again.

594
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 11: He has been slow rolling his criticism of Donald Trump.

595
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 11: If he's going to take him on, he is going

596
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 11: to have to really take him on, whether he announces

597
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 11: or not, and obviously he won't do that until the

598
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 11: legislative session ends. He's got to start hitting Trump back

599
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 11: on these attacks or I think he's going to become

600
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 11: another Jeb Bush in this regard.

601
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 3: Pretty remarkable as we consider the governor's war, if we

602
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 3: can call it that, with Disney right now over the

603
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 3: whole Reedy Creek district and the back and forth that's

604
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 3: upsetting some members of the legislature of the General Assembly

605
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 3: in Florida as Ron DeSantis, Ron and Casey DeSantis. The

606
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 3: first lady describes at a sort of quasi campaign stop

607
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 3: in South Carolina a couple of days ago, they had

608
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 3: this sort of prepared routine to talk about their wedding.

609
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 10: One day she comes to me and says, you know,

610
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 10: I was talking to my parents and they were interested

611
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 10: in potentially doing the wedding at.

612
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 3: Yeh, Disney World.

613
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 10: Oh what I remember when this broke in the news,

614
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 10: every thought it was so scandalous, like DeSantis got married

615
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 10: at Disney, Like, yeah, it was great. Back then.

616
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 6: But he had one caveat though, when I because he

617
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 6: was very gracious, he said, you go do what you

618
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 6: want to do. This is your thing.

619
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 8: Go it's wonderful.

620
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: And we grew up coming from Ohio going to Disney.

621
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 4: We had a lot of fun before they went woke, obviously.

622
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 3: But so they start handing the mic back and forth,

623
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 3: and apparently Rick he didn't want Mickey at his wedding.

624
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 3: But are you kidding me? This is the guy who's

625
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 3: declared war on Disney. He actually got married at the

626
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 3: park that he's trying to undo.

627
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 10: It's unexplainable. I mean, it's just and they were leaning

628
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 10: in on this, right, I mean, glad to make it

629
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 10: part of their narrative that we got married there. But

630
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 10: it wasn't woke then, And I must tell you, I

631
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 10: honestly don't understand it. Maybe they think this is kind

632
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 10: of cute and it's a way to get to know

633
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 10: each other's backgrounds. It's it's a little distracting to the

634
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 10: overall narrative of what he's trying to do with Disney.

635
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 10: But but I would say one thing on polling, don't

636
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 10: believe any national polls this far out of an election

637
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 10: you know that are predicting anybody's success or demise. We

638
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 10: have a long way to go. And when these folks

639
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 10: become candidates and they start spending money in the states

640
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 10: that matter, let's start looking at Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Florida, Poles.

641
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 3: Rick Davis, Genie Shanzano. We thank you, as ever our

642
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 3: signature panel Bloomberg Politics contributors with insights on the stories

643
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 3: that you care about every day here on Bloomberg sound On. Yeah,

644
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,959
Speaker 3: they got married at Disney World, but she says it

645
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 3: was the navy uniform that got her because he looked

646
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 3: like Tom Cruise. We'll have to introduce them the ward

647
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 3: Carol someday and reevaluate. Hey, it's almost Earth Day. We'll

648
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 3: take a look at that. Coming up next on the

649
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 3: Fastest Show in Politics. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.

650
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

651
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

652
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: tune in apt, Bloomberg dot Com, and a Bloomberg Business app.

653
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

654
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

655
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 3: Well Earth Day tomorrow, I've got plans. Well, the day

656
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 3: itself and the overall environmental movement are so closely associated

657
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 3: now with progressive politics Democrats. Did you know it was

658
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 3: a Republican who codified April twenty second as Earth Day.

659
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 14: Welcome to the White House on this special occasion. On

660
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 14: April twenty second, nineteen ninety, America will celebrate Earth Day.

661
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

662
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 3: President George H. W. Bush nineteen ninety signed a proclamation

663
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 3: that day at the White House to make this an

664
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 3: annual event and listen to how different the conversation, the

665
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 3: approach the debate was.

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00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 14: Then citizens will be asked to make a personal and

667
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 14: collective commitment to the projection of the environment, to think

668
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 14: globally and act locally. And April twenty second also marks

669
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 14: the twentieth anniversary of the first Earth Day, giving each

670
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 14: and every one of us a chance to reflect on

671
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 14: the progress made over the past twenty years and set

672
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 14: the environmental agenda for the next decade. We've just started

673
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 14: a new year, and twenty years ago this week, on

674
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 14: another new year, President Nixon signed landmark environmental legislation, the

675
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 14: National Environmental Policy Act, into Law. The historic environmental laws

676
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 14: of the seventies followed this step Clean Air Act, Clean

677
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 14: Water Act, the laws regulating pesticides and toxic substances and

678
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 14: hazardous waste.

679
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 3: That was the twentieth anniversary indeed of the First Earth

680
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 3: Day April twenty second, nineteen seventy, as covered then by

681
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 3: Walter Cronkite on CBS News.

682
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 15: Good Evening, A unique day in American history is ending

683
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 15: a day set aside for a nationwide outpouring of mankind

684
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 15: seeking its own birthday. The gravity of the message of

685
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 15: birthday still came through act or.

686
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 3: Die, Act or Die, said Walter Cronkite, codified by George H. W.

687
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 4: Bush.

688
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,479
Speaker 3: Things have changed a lot, by the way. The number

689
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 3: one song on the First Earth Day nineteen seventy Jackson five.

690
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 3: Just to bring it back here on the fastest show

691
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 3: on politics, Kayley Lines is up next on this Earth

692
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 3: Day Eve, I'm Joe Matthew. Our two sound on starts

693
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 3: right now.

694
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

695
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern.

696
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg

697
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 2: Business App, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

698
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 3: And with no blue check to show for it either,

699
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 3: we're just regular people.

700
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: Now.

701
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew with Kayley Lions, who's actually dealt with

702
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 3: this in the past. You you did lose the check, right,

703
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 3: My check is gone gone. They all kind of went

704
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 3: away right in the middle of the day yesterday. It's

705
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 3: been really funny reading people on Twitter. Everyone has to

706
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 3: post about the fact they lost the check. Everyone lost

707
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 3: their check to say, well, I woke up this morning

708
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 3: and I'm like, and then you get the you know

709
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: whatever video of somebody I just couldn't care less.

710
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 4: I don't know. The fact of the matter is we're

711
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 4: not paying for checks.

712
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there are great questions about what happens to

713
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 3: you know, actual corporations, government agencies that could really suffer,

714
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 3: never mind media personalities from impostors on the platform, which

715
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 3: was already a problem.

716
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 16: Kaylie, Yeah, I mean it's already a problem I've dealt

717
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 16: with on other platforms. My Instagram has had like eight

718
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 16: impostors in the last couple couple of months. Though I

719
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 16: don't have a blue check on Instagram, which I think

720
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 16: is the problem. But the thing is, I had a

721
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 16: lot of people ask me in the last twenty four hours, Well,

722
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 16: why don't you just pay for it? Because it doesn't

723
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 16: actually make a difference anymore. Right, If I have to

724
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 16: pay for it, then the verification is not originally as

725
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 16: an intended because anyone could pay to pretend to be

726
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 16: me in.

727
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 3: Theory, you know, it's just or the president or the Pope.

728
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 3: They lost their checks too. Is it true that Joe

729
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 3: Wisenthal never had a check?

730
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 16: Yeah, he was one of the rare few that didn't

731
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 16: need a check for people to know it was really Joe.

732
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 3: But he has like five million followed Joe, did you

733
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 3: tell them not to give you a check?

734
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 17: I'm too punk rock for I was always too cool

735
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 17: for that check.

736
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 5: I don't you know.

737
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 17: It's funny, like I was on Twitter forever, the first

738
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 17: celebrity I think that I ever saw getting a check

739
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 17: mark with Shack because he was like early on and

740
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:36,800
Speaker 17: I was like, this is the real Shack on Twitter,

741
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 17: and then you got a check I was like, oh

742
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 17: my god, this is the real And so in my

743
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,439
Speaker 17: mind I always associated it's like, unless you're a Shack

744
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 17: level of celebrity, what are you even doing? So I'm like, well,

745
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 17: I'll never be as famous as Shack, so I don't

746
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 17: want to be.

747
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 3: Would that suggests that they were handing him out, you know,

748
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 3: like candy there were too many checks.

749
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 17: But no, no, no, but like that actually, like is

750
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 17: the thing which is and I think this is missed

751
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 17: and is that they're genuinely useful for the consumers of

752
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 17: tweets as opposed to the posters of tweets. And Kaylee,

753
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 17: well you said it's like exactly right, like why pay

754
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 17: and it's like it doesn't really mean anything. But the

755
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 17: real advantage of even having a verification system for a

756
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 17: lot of journalists was like, you know, a lot of

757
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 17: news has been broken on Twitter, people said things, you

758
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 17: have really incredible people who are like posted their first

759
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 17: thought when something happens is to post something to Twitter, right,

760
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 17: Like that's kind of a remarkable thing for any site

761
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 17: to have. And then journalists of course made a million

762
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 17: stories over the last ten years like so and so

763
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 17: said this, and now if you don't really know that

764
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 17: it's the person, then like from a consumption standpoint, it's

765
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 17: kind of because it sort of degrades the ability to

766
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 17: use Twitter as a source of news, which maybe that's

767
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 17: even a good thing, but I doubt that's something that's

768
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,439
Speaker 17: in the long term business interests.

769
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 4: Of the company.

770
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 16: Well, but on the long term business interests of the company.

771
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 16: Is this like the start of the death of Twitter,

772
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 16: which I feel like might be a peace for you

773
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 16: the stall Yeah, followers, I'm going to be like.

774
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 17: You know that meme of the guy standing in the corner.

775
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 17: It's like they don't know, blah blah blah, like they

776
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 17: don't know I used to be popular on Twitter years ago.

777
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 17: That's gonna be me like in a year. But I

778
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 17: do think like, yeah, I mean, look, I don't know,

779
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 17: jeth it's maybe a dramatic whatever, I'm not going anywhere.

780
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 17: It's still like the first slow wilting, Yes, slow wilting.

781
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 17: It's like becomes a slowly worse experience. And I do

782
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 17: think that, like it's simpoint, like it's not you know,

783
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 17: like I just the way I just see it is

784
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 17: like any site ever would kill to have Lebron James

785
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 17: Bill Ackman, you know, the president of the presidents of

786
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 17: several countries have them on their site and post it

787
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 17: right like anyone would like kill for that. And then

788
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 17: to think that your business is going to be I'm

789
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 17: going to charge you know, I'm going to charge the

790
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 17: Pope eight dollars a month. It's like give the Pope

791
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 17: literally making blessings, you know, on the site. And it

792
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 17: was like, I'm going it's incredible. Could you imagine how

793
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 17: many other social networks would be desperate for something like that?

794
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 17: And then you and then you're like, oh, I think

795
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 17: our business model is going to be let's charge the

796
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 17: Pope eight dollars. Let's charge Bill Ackman eight dollars. It's

797
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 17: just I mean, maybe, look, Elon is one of the

798
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 17: richest people in the world. I'm not, but I'm skeptical.

799
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 17: But that's like a great way to use the factory

800
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 17: of all these incredible people on to say.

801
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 3: Well, if the story lately is, you know, the loss

802
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 3: of advertising, which apparently is very real at Twitter, does

803
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 3: this help to bring them back?

804
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 13: No?

805
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 17: And there's the other thing, right, Like, the other thing

806
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 17: is that one of the weird things about Twitter is

807
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 17: many people are pushed very specific, detailed things about what

808
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 17: they're into there, right, like it's not even like you

809
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 17: and yet like I've never in fifteen years of being

810
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 17: on the site because I joined this in March two

811
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 17: thousand and eight, and which I remember because it was

812
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 17: like basically when bearster and collapsed. Uh, you know, like

813
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 17: I've posed so much personal information of some sort on

814
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 17: the site, and yet I really don't think I've ever

815
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 17: seen a well targeted ad for me. But it's only

816
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 17: gonna get worse because if it's just like, you know,

817
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 17: random accounts like you know, sir Doge of Coin and

818
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 17: Wall Street Silver and all these like random meme accounts

819
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 17: that Elon himself enjoys, which is his right, I don't

820
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 17: know if like any like brand advertisers like really want

821
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 17: to be there the way they want to be on say,

822
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 17: you know, Instagram.

823
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 16: Yeah, it's a good point. Now I'm just kind of

824
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 16: scrolling through your Twitter feed and one thing that you

825
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 16: do tweet about quite often is.

826
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 17: Odd Lots, right podcast.

827
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 16: Yes, so I'm going to use this to a nice

828
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 16: seg here, give it here. Thank oh, thank you very much.

829
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 16: Of course, we are twenty four hours from everybody having

830
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 16: lost their blue check marks. We are also twenty four

831
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 16: hours from four to twenty. Yes, so you had a

832
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 16: three part episode of odd Lots, which you dubbed Potlots.

833
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 17: Yeah, it's been into works for while. It was really

834
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 17: my co host Tracy is like kind of her vision

835
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:09,320
Speaker 17: and it's actually no, and it was not a actually

836
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 17: I think originally we wanted to get it out like

837
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 17: last October, and putting together this series ended up being

838
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 17: way more daunting than we could have ever imagined. So

839
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 17: it's like, Okay, we'll put it out on April twentieth.

840
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 17: But yes, so you know, as you know, like the

841
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 17: New York or some people may know, New York is

842
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:28,280
Speaker 17: like slowly rolling out the adult use Recreational Weeks coverage

843
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 17: and it's incredibly complicated. It's just an incredibly it's so

844
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 17: much easier said than done to take what was previously

845
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 17: an illicit market and make it a sort of consumer market,

846
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 17: and we explored it from all the angles, and we

847
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 17: talked to licensed dealers, we talked to unlicensed dealers, we

848
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 17: talked to regulators, we talked to vcs, we talked to

849
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 17: retail operators, et cetera about how it's going. And my

850
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 17: big takeaway is that, again I had a feeling it

851
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 17: was a kind of a complicated mess to do this,

852
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 17: and my takeaway is like, it's ten times more complicated

853
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 17: than even I realized. But it's it's a very I

854
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 17: learned a lot from the reporting process of like of

855
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 17: interviewing people over the course of these three episodes.

856
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 3: You know, one of the things that I used to

857
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 3: live in Massachusetts and was there when when they began

858
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 3: their experiment, and one of the biggest concerns was how

859
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 3: do you squash the black market when prices are so high.

860
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 3: If people don't care about, you know, regulated products, they're

861
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 3: going to go find the cheapest price they can. And

862
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,959
Speaker 3: this is something that most states, including Colorado, haven't seen

863
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 3: to figure out yet.

864
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 17: Yoe, No, they haven't. And there's many perverse aspects of it,

865
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 17: one of which is that, you know, because of it's

866
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 17: illegal at the federal level, there's no way to legally

867
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 17: cross state lines with it. So no real license dispensary

868
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 17: in New York can sell product grown or created in California.

869
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 17: But the unlice of this place is can they can

870
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 17: easily You rent a private plate, rented G four, you

871
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 17: pack a few boxes in it, no one there's no

872
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 17: customs going across borders, so no one's gonna know what.

873
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 17: You're not likely to get busted, and so like not

874
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 17: only ours the unlicensed place, they places less taxed, less

875
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 17: regulated et cetera. They might have much better or at

876
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 17: least much more abundant product because they're not limited to

877
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 17: purchasing from something created in state. So it's really tricky,

878
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 17: and it's particularly tricky due to the tech that it's

879
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 17: still the fact that it's still a Schedule one illegal

880
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 17: drug at the national level.

881
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,439
Speaker 4: Like how he says rent a G four, Like that's

882
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 4: just something.

883
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 17: No, there's something I heard. I've never done it myself,

884
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 17: but I heard so Like I was like, well, how

885
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 17: do they get it across someone and someone? I don't

886
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 17: think it was in the episode, Like.

887
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 3: How about the matter of cash though, Joe, we only

888
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 3: have a minute. I'll warn you this safe banking acts.

889
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 3: We've covered a lot in Washington. It's passed the house

890
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 3: over fifteen times, but is apparently never going to see

891
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 3: the light of day.

892
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 2: I know.

893
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 17: It's another really frustrating aspect for them, and so even

894
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,240
Speaker 17: the licensed operators have and that's what in the final

895
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 17: episode we talked to someone who works at one of

896
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 17: the existing licensed operators in Manhattan and just issues of

897
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 17: like finding payroll services, payment services. It's really tricky, all right.

898
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 16: Well, make sure to turn tune into that three part

899
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 16: special Odd Lots episode.

900
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 4: You can smell it on the subway.

901
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 16: Now, oh New York, Yeah, you can smell.

902
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 3: I mean like I've walked around New York and I

903
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 3: mean you can't have what but on the subway?

904
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 4: How's it getting in the subway?

905
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 3: Well, people are smoking on the subway, there is some Unfortunately.

906
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 4: He is too punk rock for a blue shit.

907
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 3: Joe, thank you, and now we all are.

908
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 17: Thanks for having me.

909
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 3: Now we all are.

910
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 4: How about that.

911
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 16: Never considered myself punk rock before this, but hey, I'll.

912
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 4: Take it absolutely.

913
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 3: Joe Wisenthal. Of course, the Pride of Bloomberg.

914
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 4: Here.

915
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

916
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

917
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: tune in alf Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business app.

918
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

919
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg. Joe.

920
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 16: With every minute that passes, we get closer to the

921
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 16: X date.

922
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, where is it?

923
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 4: When is it?

924
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 16: That's a good question. But at some point in theory,

925
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 16: the Treasury could hit the wall and run out of

926
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 16: money to pay the bills of the United States. And

927
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 16: based on the Treasuries tax receipts, that date could come

928
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 16: a lot sooner than maybe we anticipate anticipated previously.

929
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a really good point.

930
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 3: We were talking about maybe we get till July or

931
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 3: August extraordinary measures. But you're reporting, and you've had a

932
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 3: great piece on this on Balance of Power on Bloomberg

933
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 3: TV yesterday. It's looking like it's going to be a

934
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 3: lot sooner. It could be the middle of June. Yeah,

935
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,280
Speaker 3: And we don't even have a meeting set up between

936
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 3: the Speaker and the President on this.

937
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 4: There is currently no path.

938
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 16: Yeah, it does not seem like we are any closer

939
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 16: to getting the House Speaker and the President of the

940
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 16: United States to sit down at the negotiating table on this.

941
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 16: Of course, Speaker McCarthy has put out a bill he

942
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 16: wants to raise the debt ceiling by one and a

943
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 16: half trillion dollars, but he still wants to cut spending.

944
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 16: The White House still kind of saying no, thank you

945
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 16: to that. So who is right? Bloomberg's David Weston pose

946
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 16: that question to Larry Summers, the former Treasury secretary and

947
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 16: Harvard University president Emeritis, as part of his usual Wall

948
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 16: Street Week segment. Take a listen to what mister Summers said.

949
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 4: We should be.

950
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 12: Talking about controlling our spending. We should not be talking

951
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 12: about anything in the context of hostage taking and threats

952
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 12: that are damaging and counterproductive for everybody. Look, we do

953
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 12: need to have a fundamental conversation about the future of

954
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 12: government finances in our country.

955
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 4: Okay, so no hostage taking.

956
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 16: Perhaps not.

957
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 3: Then again, the Republican leadership would tell you we're not

958
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 3: holding anything hostage. We're saving the next generation. So this

959
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 3: is kind of a tough one. David Weston is with

960
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 3: us right now from New York. David, when Larry Summers

961
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 3: weighs in, the markets tend to listen. But we're no

962
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 3: closer to a solution here than we were the last

963
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 3: time we spoke a week ago. When does the market

964
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 3: start to worry?

965
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 13: Well, you're seeing a little bit, Joe already. If you

966
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 13: look at the cds's, the one year CDs is for

967
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 13: US debt, it's at their highest ever run record. Now

968
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 13: it's a pretty thin market. I want to be careful here,

969
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 13: but in fact it's at a record high. And also

970
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 13: there's a kink actually in the T bill market. In

971
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 13: the yields where basically people are saying, yeah, I'm happy

972
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 13: to lone you some money for the next sixty days

973
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 13: US government. After that, I'm not so sure. I'm not

974
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 13: sure if you're going to pay me back. So you're

975
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 13: starting to see it show up just a little bit

976
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 13: around the edges.

977
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 16: A little bit around the edges, though likely isn't enough

978
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 16: to get the attention of those here in Washington, David

979
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,919
Speaker 16: and make them more enticed to perhaps give an inch

980
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 16: when it comes to the kind of this stubborn standoff.

981
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 16: Do we realistically have to see the markets make up,

982
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 16: kick up a little bit more of a storm here

983
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 16: on this before we see real action? Is that the

984
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 16: sense you're getting from the conversations you're having with leaders.

985
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 13: Well, it certainly was what we saw in twenty eleven,

986
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 13: isn't it, Kayley. I mean, we saw version of that

987
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 13: where we walked right up and we had one rating

988
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 13: agency take us down a notch. You hope that we're

989
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 13: not gonna get there because it costs real money. It

990
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 13: costs real money in borrowing costs. But I think you

991
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 13: heard in what Larry said there the essence of the dilemma.

992
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 13: On the one hand, I think everybody, including Kevin McCarthy Republics,

993
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 13: agree we should not default on our debt. That's catastrophic.

994
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 13: On the other hand, you hear everybody you say, we

995
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 13: should do something about the spending. The problem is are

996
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 13: they connected or not connected? And it seems like that's

997
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 13: the stumbling block right now. And I know that makes

998
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 13: sense in Washington where you are. I think maybe across

999
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 13: a lot of the country they're saying, wait a second,

1000
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 13: I do't understand. You all agree you got to increase

1001
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 13: the debt. You all agree you got to fix spending.

1002
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 13: Why can't you just do that?

1003
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 3: You start to wonder who's gonna blink here, David? And

1004
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 3: when the White House comes around, the signals that we

1005
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 3: have seen would suggest that that happens, that that meeting

1006
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 3: will happen if House Republicans can pass their budget. And

1007
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 3: it remains unclear as we go into the weekend. If

1008
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 3: Kevin McCarthy has two hundred and eighteen votes for this plan,

1009
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 3: if he does not, are we still in nowhere land

1010
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 3: next week?

1011
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 13: But it gets to the essence of it doesn't a

1012
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:05,760
Speaker 13: joe as a practical matter, because one of the major

1013
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 13: factors that you didn't really have in twos as eleven

1014
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 13: is the Speaker of the House that took how many

1015
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 13: votes to get his speakership with a very fractured caucus

1016
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 13: and then narrow majority, And no doubt Kevin McCarthy first informers,

1017
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 13: wants to keep his job, and it's not clear how

1018
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 13: he does that. That goes to whether he can actually

1019
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 13: get this bill through the House. That's far from clear.

1020
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 13: On the other hand, I'm not sure President Biden's going

1021
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 13: to pay any attention to him if he can't.

1022
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 4: Get the votes.

1023
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 16: Yeah, it's such a good point. And David, I know

1024
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,879
Speaker 16: you had a much longer conversation with Larry Summers about

1025
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 16: this and ultimately about the US economy and also the

1026
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 16: US dollar status as the global reserve currency, and Larry

1027
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 16: Summers seemed to suggest that if that does happen, which

1028
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 16: he doesn't necessarily think it will, it will be because

1029
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 16: the United States is no longer respected and strong in

1030
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 16: the world. It will be because we've accumulated a set

1031
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 16: of untenable debts. So is he essentially saying that something

1032
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 16: like I don't know, pushing it too close to the

1033
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 16: limit and getting downgraded or actually going over that to

1034
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,720
Speaker 16: fall Cliff is what ultimately could mean that the dollar

1035
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 16: is no longer king.

1036
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 13: It may well be, but I think what he would

1037
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 13: say is, we got a lot bigger problems than that.

1038
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 13: If we actually go over the limit and we default

1039
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 13: on the debt.

1040
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 4: That's going to be the least of our problems. We're

1041
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 4: going to have much bigger problems than that.

1042
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 13: But we were going over with him an analysis that

1043
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,240
Speaker 13: you saw this week, Kayley, that in fact, the dollar

1044
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 13: as a reserve currency lost a fair amount of market share,

1045
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 13: if I can put it that way, this last year,

1046
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 13: in part because of some of the sanctions on Russia.

1047
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 13: And so we were asking him, are we in danger?

1048
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 13: And he basically said, no, we're not in that bad danger,

1049
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 13: but we could get in that much danger if we

1050
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 13: don't get our fiscal house in order. He's very concerned

1051
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 13: about that.

1052
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 3: What else are we're looking forward to on Wall Street

1053
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 3: week tonight at six pm New York Time, David.

1054
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 13: Well, we got a great treat and Rick Reader coming

1055
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 13: on from Blackrock. We had a good kind discussion with him,

1056
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 13: and he's the best, Well, he is the best, and

1057
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 13: you know, he's very concerned at this point. You know,

1058
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 13: he's a fixed income guy al though he's also expanded

1059
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 13: into all assets right now, but he says maybe the

1060
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 13: FEDI is a little too fixated on inflation. Sure you

1061
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 13: got to pay attention to it, but how much damage

1062
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 13: are you willing to do the econ I mean, he's

1063
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 13: got a lot of ways of looking at it, saying,

1064
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 13: you know what they should Okay, maybe hiking the twenty

1065
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,240
Speaker 13: five in May, but then they got a whole pat

1066
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 13: and he thinks they're going to be cutting not this year,

1067
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 13: he doesn't expect that this year, but next year. He

1068
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 13: thinks we're looking at maybe as low as three for

1069
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:14,760
Speaker 13: the flood Fund's right.

1070
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 16: Well, And of course, so much of that is going

1071
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,240
Speaker 16: to depend on how much of a contraction we really

1072
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 16: do see in credit, how much banks pull back on lending.

1073
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:24,399
Speaker 16: And I know that was something you discussed at length

1074
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,280
Speaker 16: with Brian moynihan, the Bank of America's CEO, yesterday.

1075
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 13: Exactly, and Brian admitted, look at we are that our

1076
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 13: standards are going up on credit, we're not loaning as much.

1077
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 13: But he said that's exactly what the FED wanted. How

1078
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 13: are they gonna get co inflation under control? If you

1079
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 13: don't do that, He's not overly alarmed. He says, the

1080
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 13: consumer is still very strong. But going back for a minute,

1081
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 13: that is exactly what Rick Reader is concerned about it.

1082
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,280
Speaker 13: He says that if there's more disruption in the banking system,

1083
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 13: that is exactly what's going to force the FED to

1084
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 13: come down. But I would say Brian does not see

1085
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 13: that on the horizon.

1086
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 16: Yet yet, being the operative word there.

1087
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,919
Speaker 3: Y oh true, these things can change pretty quickly.

1088
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: David.

1089
00:52:58,239 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 3: It's always our pleasure to have you. Let's do this

1090
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 3: again next week, and we'll be watching tonight, of course

1091
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 3: and listening. You can always listen. I should tell our

1092
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 3: radio audience to Wall Street week at six pm Wall

1093
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 3: Street Time.

1094
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 4: As we sit here in Washington.

1095
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 3: David Weston with us from New York, Kayley and just

1096
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 3: question marks all over this story. We just got through

1097
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 3: another week without really a sense of where we are and.

1098
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 4: Where we're going.

1099
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 16: Yeah, hopefully we'll have a firmer sense of ultimately where

1100
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:29,479
Speaker 16: we need to get to at the last possible date.

1101
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 16: That X date should become more clearer once we get

1102
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 16: the fuller picture of what the Apple TAP's receipts look like,

1103
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 16: and maybe that'll kick start, that'll fight something.

1104
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:38,879
Speaker 3: That'll be an inflection point, just like the vote next

1105
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 3: Wednesday if that bill gets to the floor, and we'll

1106
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 3: find out together with coverage from Washington every day here

1107
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 3: on Bloomberg Sound On. If you want to know what's

1108
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,879
Speaker 3: happening inside the Beltway, this is your opportunity here live

1109
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 3: on the radio or in the podcasts with Kaylee Lines.

1110
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew, and this is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening

1111
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 3: to the Sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if

1112
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 3: you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you

1113
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 3: get your podcasts, and you can find us live every

1114
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 3: weekday from Washington, DC at one pm Eastern Time at

1115
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 3: Bloomberg dot com.