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Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio Together Everything Boy. This year huh not a good one.

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Speaker 1: It is one though. It's a year. It is a year.

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Speaker 1: It is a year. Uh, and it it could either

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Speaker 1: be the best or the worst year ever still because

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Speaker 1: there's days left in it, so like you know, a

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Speaker 1: variety of things could occur. But as we can still

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Speaker 1: turn this thing around. Yeah, the years I've experienced certainly

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Speaker 1: the worst. Uh, that's the podcast name of the years

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Speaker 1: I've experienced, certainly the worst. This one is. It's punchy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: very quick to the point, the way you're supposed to

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Speaker 1: write things you want. You want the long titles for podcast. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: people as indirect and and obvious, skated as possible. That's

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Speaker 1: what it helps you as it does not fit in

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Speaker 1: your podcast. Are you're doing it right? Yeah? Yeah? So

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Speaker 1: introduction wise, I'm Robert Evans uh and we've also got

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Speaker 1: a Katie Stole here, we've got a Cody Johnston and uh,

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Speaker 1: we're all talking about the world in which we live.

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Speaker 1: But it's not just us this time, thank god, because

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Speaker 1: we're I mean, I'm tired of us, right, Are are

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Speaker 1: you tired of us? Us? I'm tired. I'm not tired

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Speaker 1: of any of you. I love all of you very nicely.

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Speaker 1: I I see this bit and I like it. It's fun, Robert,

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Speaker 1: But if I'm being perfectly honest, I look forward to

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Speaker 1: seeing you guys. Well that's very sweet, but it does

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Speaker 1: ruin my joke. So it's time for us to bring

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Speaker 1: in our guest for today. Who I'm very excited to

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Speaker 1: talk to. H Jeremiah Ellison, who was a city council

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Speaker 1: member in Minneapolis Ward five, uh as well as a

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Speaker 1: political organizer and a visual artist. And uh, yeah, Jeremiah,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the thing that we do that is in

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Speaker 1: your ears, but it is not the radio somehow. Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me. I'm I'm excited. Uh. I've been

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Speaker 1: listening to Behind the Bastards and and was listening to

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Speaker 1: Behind the Police, and um I heard Minneapolis mentioned a

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Speaker 1: couple of times and obviously have been involved in in

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Speaker 1: all the stuff we're doing here locally. Uh, So it

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Speaker 1: was interesting to hear it sort of distilled through, uh,

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Speaker 1: through your lens and and and I think you got

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Speaker 1: it spot on. Um. Yeah, so I reached out and

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Speaker 1: just thought i'd let you know, like listening to behind

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Speaker 1: the police was was weirdly affirming, even though I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: call it like feel good material. Yeah you sent me

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Speaker 1: that message, which really helped on a dark day because

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Speaker 1: they're mostly dark days in Portland. Right about now, um

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Speaker 1: and yeah, I started thinking, like, you know, for all

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Speaker 1: that I care about this, I know that y'all in Minneapolis,

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Speaker 1: in the city Council have voted to like, let's get

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Speaker 1: rid of this, let's get rid of these police. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the That was like the headline that I read earlier,

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Speaker 1: and then I read other headlines it's like it's actually

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Speaker 1: harder than that to do. Yeah. Um, So I figured

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Speaker 1: we'd bring you on because like, first off, I want

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Speaker 1: to know, like what's what's going on with that? Like

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Speaker 1: like how do we get to the point of like

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Speaker 1: I'm curious, you know kind of since you've been inside this,

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Speaker 1: what kind of what it was like leading up to

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Speaker 1: and getting you know, have actually like having a vote

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Speaker 1: on on that, on whether or not to kind of

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Speaker 1: replace your police force with something else. And then sort

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Speaker 1: of what's happened since and like what things have been

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Speaker 1: kind of thrown in your way and blocked sort of

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Speaker 1: the route that you like it. I know that it's

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Speaker 1: a fascinating story and you have been there for it,

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Speaker 1: which really makes things easier on me. Um. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I uh, you know, I think that what you can

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Speaker 1: say in a headline is often, um, obviously not the

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Speaker 1: whole picture. And so I'll try to do my fastest

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Speaker 1: version of the like long version, um, which won't take

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Speaker 1: too long. But essentially, you know, we had a number

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Speaker 1: of constituents, a number of activists in the community of

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Speaker 1: Minneapolis who uh during the uprising, said hey, look, uh,

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Speaker 1: we think that there's this this this huge uh not

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Speaker 1: just problem with the Minneapolis police, but we think there's

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Speaker 1: a huge inherent problem with the nature of policing, how

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Speaker 1: we do policing, how we conduct public safety. We think

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Speaker 1: a lot of you on the city council agree with us,

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Speaker 1: and we're looking for you all sort of affirm publicly

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Speaker 1: that you agree with your constituents who feel this way

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Speaker 1: and so um and so you know, I actually was

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Speaker 1: at that time, uh, doing a number of community like

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Speaker 1: patrols right myself, like as the council member, I was

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Speaker 1: out all night. You know, there were out of there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of talk of white supremacist stuff, and

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Speaker 1: so I didn't know how many of my colleagues we're

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Speaker 1: gonna show up to to the to the park that day. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There ended up being nine of us. Uh, and we

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Speaker 1: and we sort of affirmed that we agreed that the

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Speaker 1: nature of policing was is flawed and and that we

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Speaker 1: really need to uh, we need we are interested in

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Speaker 1: being on the front line of dismantling that system and

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Speaker 1: creating something different for public safety. What followed was kind

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Speaker 1: of a number of really kind of boring small steps.

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Speaker 1: One was a resolution basically affirming that public commitment that

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Speaker 1: we made in the park that we are looking to replace, dismantle,

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Speaker 1: change our radically change our our method of public safety

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Speaker 1: within the city. One of the ways in which we

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Speaker 1: are blocked from making any changes is via our city charter.

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Speaker 1: For folks who don't know, the city charter is basically

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Speaker 1: like the municipal local constitution. So we're sort of in

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Speaker 1: our own way. And so our first step really after

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Speaker 1: passing a resolution and a resolution is basically just like, uh,

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Speaker 1: it's a promise. It can either means something or not

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Speaker 1: means something, depending on your follow through. After passing the resolution,

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Speaker 1: we went to go change the Charter, and we ran

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Speaker 1: into the Charter Commission and UM and I think also

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Speaker 1: a lot of backlash within the community that was really

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Speaker 1: pushing to sort of slow the brakes and say, hey, look,

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Speaker 1: you know, we know that people want radical change, but

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Speaker 1: we think maybe that shouldn't happen. And the Charter Commission,

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Speaker 1: uh is a it's an unelected body. They are you know,

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Speaker 1: they are entitled via state statute to make the decision

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Speaker 1: that they made. The decision that they made, by the way,

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Speaker 1: was to delay the vote on our amendment. So the

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Speaker 1: so the city Council put together a resolution to change

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Speaker 1: the charter, which would have to go onto the ballot

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Speaker 1: for the people to vote. Before it ends up on

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Speaker 1: the ballot, the Charter Commission, which is disappointed body, has

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Speaker 1: to review the language and refer it back to the

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Speaker 1: City Council. Now, the City Council, UM can still put

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Speaker 1: it on the ballot, even if the Charter Commission doesn't

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Speaker 1: think we should. But the Charter Commission has to get

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Speaker 1: us a recommendation. They decided to run out the clock,

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Speaker 1: so to speak. They never gave us a recommendation back

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Speaker 1: and uh at which meant which meant that we could

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Speaker 1: not vote to put it on the ballot um that

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Speaker 1: sound yeah, yeah. I was halfway through describing it where

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Speaker 1: I was like, I'm missing steps, which, wow, I'm saying

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Speaker 1: a lot and I'm still missing steps. So so that's

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Speaker 1: where we are now. I think that a part of

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Speaker 1: how we got there was that. So we tried to

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Speaker 1: do this back in UM when I first got onto

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Speaker 1: the council, so I was I was elected in November

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Speaker 1: for those that don't know, and started my term, and

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Speaker 1: it was one of the first things we did was

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Speaker 1: trying to change the charter. Um. We were trying to

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Speaker 1: make a less significant change. I think we basically wanted

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Speaker 1: the council to be able to write policies for the police.

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Speaker 1: As it stands, the Minneapolis City Council has no authority

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Speaker 1: over the police um and so it's just the mayor

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Speaker 1: has complete authority over over the police department. So we

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Speaker 1: tried to change the charter back in UM, and we

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Speaker 1: were sort of out We sort of were outmaneuvered by

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Speaker 1: this narrative that like, oh, you know, how is a

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Speaker 1: police chief ever gonna function with thirteen bosses? Thirteen bosses?

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Speaker 1: Everybody was saying, how like it would be chaos if

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Speaker 1: we had a public safety safety system that was managed

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Speaker 1: by thirteen bosses, which is which is how every other

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Speaker 1: department in the city is run by the way, and

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Speaker 1: I think that like you know, the roads get plowed

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Speaker 1: and like potholes get filled, and you know, the trash

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Speaker 1: gets taken out, fine, right, but for police it's not

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Speaker 1: It's apparently not an appropriate system to have. That's all

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Speaker 1: we're trying to do in Uh. You know, public opinion

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Speaker 1: wasn't with us then, uh, And so it's something we

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Speaker 1: largely I think as a council let go. And then obviously,

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Speaker 1: with the murder of George Floyd, our our inability to

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Speaker 1: really create policy and and and manage the police or

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Speaker 1: have authority over the police came rushing back to our

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Speaker 1: face and was like, okay, you had the right instincts.

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Speaker 1: Uh you made you need to start pursuing this again.

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Speaker 1: So that's what we started doing. Um, but we were

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Speaker 1: a little late to we we we were a little

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Speaker 1: late to proposing it, which is what allowed the Charter

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Speaker 1: Commission to run off the clock. Wow, so what are

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Speaker 1: the next steps for this? So I think that we're um,

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Speaker 1: who is on the Charter Commission, Like I don't understand.

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Speaker 1: So the charter it's a it's an unelected body, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's sort of uh. It was put together via

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Speaker 1: state statute to say, you know, if you're going to

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Speaker 1: make change to your city's charter, UM, you've got to

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Speaker 1: have UM essentially a panel full of of supposed experts

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Speaker 1: that vet whether or not your charter change is appropriate

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Speaker 1: for the charter or whether what you want to and

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Speaker 1: trying and charter should actually be an ordinance or whatever.

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Speaker 1: So conceptually it sounds good, but in a reality, who's

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Speaker 1: that who? Who for specifically for you? Who is on?

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Speaker 1: Is it a bunch of old white guys like I

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Speaker 1: don't know, Yes, it's a bunch of older It's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of like older and in some cases very old

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Speaker 1: white um white men, mostly some older white women. Um.

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Speaker 1: There were there were two two members. I think we're

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Speaker 1: like folks of color, newer, younger folks of color. But

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Speaker 1: but it's generally but but again they're appointed by a

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Speaker 1: single judge, the entire um commission. And so and then

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Speaker 1: what we learned in this process was that the Charter

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Speaker 1: Commission actually UM isn't full of folks who are experts

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Speaker 1: in city charters. Right, Um, these are folks who who

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Speaker 1: were interested, willing to volunteer their time and UM and

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Speaker 1: every once in a while get to have a lot

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Speaker 1: of power. They mostly um oversee municipal word boundaries after

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Speaker 1: every census. So what are the next? Sorry, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: that's fine. So so I think we we we want

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Speaker 1: to tee this up for proposed. Is it early enough

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Speaker 1: to where the Charter Commission can't run out the clock?

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Speaker 1: You know, again with the Charter Commission can if we

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Speaker 1: we can propose language, the Charter Commission can send it

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Speaker 1: back to as saying don't put this on the ballot,

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Speaker 1: and we can put it on the ballot anyway, but

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Speaker 1: they do have to give us a recommendation. And so

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Speaker 1: I think that um, the plan is to propose this

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Speaker 1: um with enough time UM that which doesn't allow the

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Speaker 1: Charter Commission to run out the clock, and we can

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Speaker 1: get this ballot. UM. I do think that that presents

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Speaker 1: a different kind of challenge. I don't know how much

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Speaker 1: how much time you guys spend interacting with like elected

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Speaker 1: officials of which I am one, but I would say

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Speaker 1: that I'm worried that some of my colleagues won't want

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Speaker 1: to have this on the ballot when they're on the ballot.

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Speaker 1: And um. And while I think that, I think that

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Speaker 1: that's you know, my personal opinion is that's ridiculous. But um,

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Speaker 1: but it is something that could go from Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is a unanimously past thing to all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: it's really in jeopardy, right, that that can happen with

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Speaker 1: people making the kinds of political calculus they make. Well,

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Speaker 1: especially since uh, this first push or not first, as

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Speaker 1: you have explained, but right now, this moment in time

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Speaker 1: has fueled so much by George Floyd, by the protests,

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Speaker 1: by the nationwide attention, by all of this, and um,

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Speaker 1: and so this decision was made. Unfortunately, this all this

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Speaker 1: stuff happened. But yes, the next time it comes on

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Speaker 1: the ballot, who knows what public opinion looks like. Who

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Speaker 1: knows everything changes so quickly? Right right? Right? Yeah? When

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Speaker 1: the pressure is off? Is are people gonna rise to

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Speaker 1: the occasion? I think that's a that's a valid question.

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Speaker 1: You know. I like to think that I try to

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Speaker 1: govern in a way to where I don't have to

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Speaker 1: make those kinds of calculations. Um. You mentioned I'm a

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Speaker 1: visual artist and and like you know, every day, it

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Speaker 1: just sort of baffles me that I'm not like drawing

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Speaker 1: comics right now, and uh, which is which is what

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Speaker 1: it is, what I love doing. But I think this

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Speaker 1: is important work. I'm not willing to sort of sacrifice

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Speaker 1: and I think is the right thing to do in

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Speaker 1: order to keep this job, in large part because you know,

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Speaker 1: if I don't keep this job, I go back to

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Speaker 1: drawing comics. And that's that's not that's not a bad

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Speaker 1: case scenario for me. What made you decided to run

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Speaker 1: for office in the first place. So I grew up,

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Speaker 1: born and raised in in North Minneapolis, which, if folks

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Speaker 1: don't have context, that's sort of like the the black

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Speaker 1: neighborhood of of Minneapolis. When a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: in neighbor of mine who I didn't know him personally,

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Speaker 1: but actually had some connection with his older siblings. His

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Speaker 1: sister used to do my sister's hair actually, but Jama

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Speaker 1: Clark was was murdered by the Minneapolis police. This is

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Speaker 1: before I was in office. And so this is somebody

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Speaker 1: in my neighborhood killed blocks away from where where I

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Speaker 1: grew up, and um, and I was down at those

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Speaker 1: at the protests every day. At that time. I wasn't

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Speaker 1: really um, super neck deep into activism. Obviously, my my

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Speaker 1: my parents have always been involved in in in politics. Um.

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Speaker 1: Uh and and and I've always said had had had

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Speaker 1: a had some proximity to politics and activism. But I

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Speaker 1: myself was in my studio most days, and the death

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Speaker 1: of Jamark Clark sort of brought me out of my

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Speaker 1: studio and to the protest. Uh. You know, after after

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Speaker 1: those the protests sort of ended around Jamar Clark. UM.

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Speaker 1: I know, I had probably done more engagement with city

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Speaker 1: Hall at that time than I had ever done. I

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Speaker 1: got a project working, I got I got a commission

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Speaker 1: to do a project in city hall um as an artist,

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Speaker 1: and I was working with one of the city departments.

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Speaker 1: And I learned a lot about the city in that

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Speaker 1: time as well. And um and uh And I guess

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Speaker 1: the short version is that learning so much about municipal government,

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Speaker 1: being really disillusioned and disappointed with my representative at the time,

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Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, uh, and having a lot

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Speaker 1: of community members asked me to run UM sort of

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Speaker 1: pushed me into running. And I really my goal was

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Speaker 1: to address gentrification more than anything. UM. Which is you know,

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Speaker 1: economic displacement and everything. But obviously, UM, this issue around

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Speaker 1: policing and and community safety UM is a huge one

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Speaker 1: and and it's it's definitely sort of dominated my time

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Speaker 1: in office, especially the last couple of months, well together

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Speaker 1: everything down. Was there a kind of understanding when you know,

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Speaker 1: the George Floyd was murdered and the protests startup, was

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Speaker 1: there kind of understanding it all that like police violence

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Speaker 1: kind of has to be the thing that we pivot

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Speaker 1: on right now, like not just for for Minneapolis, but

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Speaker 1: because like we're kind of in a position to set

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Speaker 1: uh an example for the rest of the country. Like

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Speaker 1: was there any sort of like feeling of that um

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Speaker 1: or was were you kind of totally focused on sort

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Speaker 1: of dealing with with, you know, the the immediate issues

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Speaker 1: in front of you. Yeah, I think that I think

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Speaker 1: that the national and maybe even global conversation really was

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Speaker 1: like we we tried to not make it front and

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Speaker 1: center in our minds, right. Uh. You know, a part

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Speaker 1: of it is that some of this work that we

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Speaker 1: were advocating, we we knew these problems existed. I guess

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Speaker 1: in short, you know, we we had uh. One of

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Speaker 1: just since I've been in office. Um, the police have

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Speaker 1: been caught um injecting people with ketamine. Uh you know,

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Speaker 1: as they're being arrested for no other reason than like

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Speaker 1: maybe they mouthed off to a cop or something, right,

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Speaker 1: and the cops tells the MT to inject that person

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Speaker 1: with ketamine until they're uh totally inebriated against their will.

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Speaker 1: So that was a scandal when I first got in office. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we had a we we had a we had a

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Speaker 1: we had a drug sting conducted that was that was

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Speaker 1: considered to be so riddled with like racial bias that

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Speaker 1: the that the county prosecutor wouldn't prosecute any of the charges. Right,

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Speaker 1: there's like massive drug sting and uh and and uh

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Speaker 1: and I don't know how much you know about like

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Speaker 1: Mike Freeman, but he's not like you know, he's not

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Speaker 1: like an activist, uh you know, prosecutor, but he looked

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Speaker 1: at this case and he said, Okay, there's so much

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Speaker 1: racial bias here, I can't prosecute this case. We've had

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Speaker 1: Um Uh, we got caught our police department got caught

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Speaker 1: lying about the number of one tested rape kids they had.

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Speaker 1: They had something like ten times more the number that

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Speaker 1: they reported to the state and so like we've had

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Speaker 1: these issues, right, like with the police department, UM and

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Speaker 1: UM and so I think the murder of George Floyd,

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Speaker 1: like I think I think it it for a lot

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Speaker 1: of my colleagues, UM, me and and Steve Fletcher and

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Speaker 1: and Lisa Bender and and Philip Cunningham, we've all we've

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Speaker 1: we've kind of been like, uh oh and Cam Gordon,

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Speaker 1: we've kind of been like the the the leftist candidates

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Speaker 1: who like every year we're trying to pull a little

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Speaker 1: bit of money out of the police department every year.

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Speaker 1: We we maybe have enough for a little bit, maybe

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Speaker 1: we don't have the votes to get anything past. But

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Speaker 1: all of sudden, for the rest of my colleagues, I

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Speaker 1: think the urgency of this issue just came rushing forward.

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Speaker 1: Uh And it was like, oh, no, we've we've we've

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Speaker 1: got a much more massive issue than I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of my college were willing to acknowledge. Yeah, can

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Speaker 1: you walk me through. I'm very curious, Like that first

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Speaker 1: that first meeting y'all had after UM, after the uprising started,

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Speaker 1: right after the like like these protests start to sweep

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Speaker 1: through Minneapolis and kind of spread violent virally around the country.

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Speaker 1: What is your first day back together? Uh with that

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Speaker 1: is your new reality? Like like I like did that

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Speaker 1: just kind of like swamp everything that was sort of

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Speaker 1: on the table temporarily? Like what was Yeah, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: really curious what it was like to be in that room.

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Speaker 1: This is uh, this is like totally like this might

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Speaker 1: sound pretty weird. So so we don't have like session, right,

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Speaker 1: we're just sort of working all year, but periodically four

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Speaker 1: times during during four weeks out of the year that

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Speaker 1: that are aren't that aren't together. They're sort of sprinkled

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Speaker 1: out the year. We we have a week where there's

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Speaker 1: no meeting, there's no committee meetings, no council meeting, so

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Speaker 1: and it's called like award week. And often this is

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Speaker 1: when council members will like take that you know, they'll

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Speaker 1: take their trip up to Duluth or whatever. So George

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Speaker 1: Floyd was killed during award week, which meant that we

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Speaker 1: went a kind of a an unusual amount of time

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Speaker 1: without a committee meeting, without a council meeting, without meeting

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Speaker 1: at all, right, because we just didn't have we just

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Speaker 1: happened to not have any meetings uh that week, and

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Speaker 1: so um so it felt like forever. It actually felt

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Speaker 1: like forever. It felt like it almost felt like it, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, especially with me doing night patrols, Like during

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Speaker 1: the day I'm doing interviews uh with like local news

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Speaker 1: and national news, I'm going to the protests, and at night,

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Speaker 1: I'm e they're out doing patrols or whatever. So I

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Speaker 1: wasn't sleeping at all, um, And so that week ended

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Speaker 1: up feeling like a month. Uh. And and I think

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Speaker 1: that uh, when we finally did come back together as

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Speaker 1: a council, it felt like it had been a long time,

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Speaker 1: even though it probably hadn't. And so we passed that resolution.

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Speaker 1: I remember that much. We end up passing that resolution uh,

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Speaker 1: saying that we're going to replace the police department, and

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Speaker 1: I think we tried to set in motion a few things,

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Speaker 1: and then we also had to do a budget revision

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Speaker 1: of the budget because we're facing this shortfall due to coronavirus,

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Speaker 1: and so all of those things ended up sort of

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Speaker 1: sort of hitting us at the same time. And so uh,

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Speaker 1: and we're disconnected from each other. We're had all of

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Speaker 1: our council meetings are exactly like this. We're not in

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Speaker 1: the chamber like we usually are. Uh. And so uh

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Speaker 1: and so yeah, So I think it felt like I

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Speaker 1: think it felt a little surreal, But I don't remember

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Speaker 1: the meeting being particularly like noteworthy other other than the

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Speaker 1: fact that we passed that resolution. Um. So yeah. And

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that's been interesting to

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Speaker 1: me here in Portland is, you know, it happened a

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Speaker 1: little later for us when we became like the big

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Speaker 1: national story, but we did. We've had a couple of

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Speaker 1: different periods of that now um and it's it's, among

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Speaker 1: other things, involved taking like communities within our city and

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Speaker 1: putting them in national spotlight. And suddenly everybody, all these

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Speaker 1: people you know, would have been working with are are

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Speaker 1: on CNN and NBC in the New York Times, and

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Speaker 1: like it's this, it's it's it's very surreal. It happened

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Speaker 1: to all of the Portland journalists, like the local reporters

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Speaker 1: I've been working with, and now it's happening to all

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Speaker 1: of our like local far right and fascist activists after um,

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Speaker 1: after Jay Danielson was shot. Um. And it's very weird

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Speaker 1: these like little communities that like had never really been

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Speaker 1: that prominent suddenly being like at the center of the

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Speaker 1: national conversation. For like four days, right, Like that's how

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Speaker 1: it tends to work. Um, And the same thing happened

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Speaker 1: to y'all. I'm wondering, uh, you know, because that story

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Speaker 1: once like you voted, you know, replaced the police department,

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Speaker 1: like that was that was the the one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest stories in the country for days. Um, in a

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Speaker 1: way that almost nothing is anymore. What was it like

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Speaker 1: getting all of that attention directed on all of you

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Speaker 1: And how did it sort of impact y'all's you know,

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Speaker 1: ability to do what you were trying to do, like

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Speaker 1: they actually do your jobs. Yeah, well, you know we

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Speaker 1: there there are two grow groups here, once called Reclaimed

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Speaker 1: the Block and other one's Black Visions Collective, who as

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Speaker 1: far as the defundmentment movement goes, uh, you know, they

409
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Speaker 1: were these tiny volunteer organizations back in ten who are

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Speaker 1: advocating that we take money out of the police then

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Speaker 1: and so they've just sort of been marching along as

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Speaker 1: the years go by, um, making the same making the

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Speaker 1: same demand year after year with with with very getting

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Speaker 1: with while getting very little attention. And so uh and

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Speaker 1: so here we were in this moment that was really

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Speaker 1: I think vindicating for for these organizing groups um and uh.

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Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of my colleagues recognized

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Speaker 1: that we had been getting pushed by these local organizations

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Speaker 1: that entire time, and we were trying our best to

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Speaker 1: center their advocacy in the conversation. And so I know

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Speaker 1: that you know, uh, they did get covered a lot,

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Speaker 1: and they were you know, uh, Black Visions Collective was

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Speaker 1: featured on the cover of the New York Times, uh,

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Speaker 1: New York Times and everything and so um and so

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Speaker 1: that certainly happened, and and and all of that stuff

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Speaker 1: is sort of complicated because in some ways we were

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Speaker 1: getting a lot of attention. It was overwhelming. All my

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Speaker 1: colleagues were on you know, we were getting we're on

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Speaker 1: like national you know, uh MSNBC and CNN or whatever,

430
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 1: which is like this this weird sort of cycle that

431
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: each your time and eventually and it's exciting at first

432
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: and eventually just feels all not that not that fruitful. Um.

433
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: But uh, but you're also not leaving your house the

434
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: entire time, right like for the most part, and so

435
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: uh as and so it's if it weirdly feels like

436
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 1: a lot and like um and like very little at

437
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: the same time, if that makes sense. So because you're

438
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 1: social distancing and you're not you're not leaving the house

439
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: and aside from doing the nightly patrols, I wasn't really

440
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 1: leaving the house all that much. So yeah, and uh,

441
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: what would what what's next? Like, how do you if

442
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: this is like this is the dream, this is the goal,

443
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: like replace your police department? Um, what do what do you?

444
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 1: What are you going to do next? Like what what do?

445
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: What do you? What has to be done next in

446
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: order to actually make this happen? How do you stop

447
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: this from kind of turning into one of those uh,

448
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: one of those things that that sort of dies on

449
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: the vine, Like that's obviously I think what the what

450
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: kind of the opposition to it hopes will happen is

451
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: that if they can slow it down long enough, people

452
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: will people won't have the focus to see it through,

453
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: which you know, there's a good chance they're right. That's

454
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: how America works. We lose the thread and forget to

455
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: do or Kennedy get shot or whatever, and like yeah,

456
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 1: we we we stopped, you know, doing the thing that

457
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: we were doing and go back to pretending nothing needs

458
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: to be Yeah, how do you stop? How do we

459
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: how do you move how do you how do you

460
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: stop that from happening here? Yeah, I think that in

461
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: large part a part of why I ended up messaging

462
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: you actually was because I think I have been feeling

463
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: that a little bit, right like that this this this

464
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: slow death that happens when you try to do something bold, um,

465
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: you hit a few stumbling blocks and now it's just

466
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: sort of like the slow death march. Right. Um. I

467
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 1: think that the way that we prevent that from happening

468
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 1: is is a few things. One is um our our

469
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: local activist base, I think is going to remain active. Right.

470
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: They have been year after year. They didn't just spring

471
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: onto the scene after the murder of George Floyd. They've

472
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: been in council chambers every year sort of making this

473
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: demand and and and now they've got a lot of

474
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 1: wind under their sales and I'm hoping that they take

475
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: advantage of that um and continue to put pressure on

476
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: the council. So that's that's one I think for my part,

477
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: um as a council member, as an elected I've got

478
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: to go out and have a lot of conversations with

479
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: constituents that maybe couldn't happen um immediately after the murder

480
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: of George Floyd. Because one of the things that is

481
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: being politicized as the way to too slow and derail

482
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: this conversation is that, um, you know, every city in

483
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: America has had sort of like a rise in in

484
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: in in violent incidences, in crime, right, and so that

485
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of what the local media has

486
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 1: been publishing. You see these headlines from our local papers saying,

487
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: you know, crime rises as council continues. It's it's its

488
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: path towards defunding the police. You know, homicides at all

489
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: at a five year high as counsel looks to disand

490
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: dismantle the police. And so they're trying to link this

491
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: idea that somehow, um, this increase in violent incidences is

492
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: correlated with the council's demand that we do public safety differently,

493
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: and um say, the same thing in Portland too, like

494
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: we got rid of our gun violence task Force because

495
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: it's horrifically violent. Gun violence has also spiked, and they're like, well,

496
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: it's clearly because of this. It's like, well, there's also

497
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 1: a giant plague and everybody's everybody there's a number of

498
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: things that have happened. Yeah, yeah, I mean I was

499
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: dealing the like a couple like a week ago, I

500
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 1: was you know, I was advocating for, you know, working

501
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: with our county to get this homeless shelters. We also

502
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: have this huge homeless encampment issue here in Minneapolis, and

503
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: it's not our first one. Uh and and uh and

504
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: homelessness is increasing. It's been increasing every single year, but

505
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: it's getting really bad because of coronavirus. You know. I

506
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: was advocating that that this abandoned building and my ward

507
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: be used as a shelter, be converted into a shelter,

508
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: and my constituents were just like, I mean not all

509
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: of them obviously, but the ones who showed up to

510
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: these public meetings and onto these zoom calls, they were

511
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: so against it. And and obviously I worked for my

512
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: constituents and I have incredible amount of respect for my constituents,

513
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: but I just couldn't quite put two and two together

514
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: with there are. It was like people would get up

515
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: there and say things like, you know, our children are

516
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: dying and you want to put a homeless shelter here,

517
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: And it's like, how is that a sentence like that?

518
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,239
Speaker 1: How does this homeless shelter effect? Right? Right? Like? How like,

519
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: how does the homeless shelter right exactly? Also, and those

520
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: houseless people are someone's children, humans work. I find that

521
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: interesting that, you know, as an elected official, reconciling something

522
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: that you know to be good and important to you

523
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 1: in your tenure versus also what your constituents are showing

524
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: up to say. And not just that, I mean the

525
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: people that show up in our vocal aren't or a

526
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: subset of it. They're not necessarily what ever brought or

527
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: opinion is right right there. The angry ones are going

528
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: to show up, always show up, right, Um. But you know,

529
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: we needed sort of like we needed sort of a

530
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: couple of different governmental bodies to play ball. The city,

531
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: I'm at. The city we were on board, the county

532
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: was obviously on board, and the last sort of unit

533
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: of government sort of chickened out and just was like

534
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: we're we're not gonna you know, uh, And we needed

535
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: all three in order to make the shelter happen. So,

536
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: you know, so, like I think that this whole narrative

537
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: that like this conversation around public safety and the lease

538
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: and defunding the police is connected to violence, and then

539
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: when people don't feel safe, then they just you know,

540
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: they kind of get that that that nimbi impulse, and

541
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: they're just like, no homeless shelter, no affordable housing, no

542
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: poor people around me at all, Right, Like that's sort

543
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: of like this this weird um gut reaction that that

544
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: some people have, um when they feel like their safety

545
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: is under threat. And so like, um, you know, to

546
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: get kind of to your question, I think that, um,

547
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,479
Speaker 1: you know, obviously there's the nuts and bolts of what

548
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: we have to do, but but that that cold conversation

549
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: around the homeless shelter showed me. It was kind of

550
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: like a proxy conversation really about people feeling like secure,

551
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: right and feeling like they have a voice, and and

552
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: it made me realize that like, if we want to

553
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,959
Speaker 1: pull this off, you know, people aren't. It's not impossible

554
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: to persuade someone who who who a constituent who comes

555
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: to me and says, hey, councilmember, I don't understand why

556
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: you're looking to defund the police when we're when we're

557
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: seeing this increase in violence. And I tend, on a

558
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: one on one basis, I tend to be able to

559
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: I'm able to have those conversations pretty well, and I'm

560
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: able to explain to them the logic, and I'm able

561
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: to explain to them that, like, you know that actually

562
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: police don't enforce safety that like that that the entire

563
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: structure of policing um is in some ways built upon

564
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: a lie that it keeps us safer. It eats up

565
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: a lot of resources, and resources aren't unlimited. So when

566
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: we so when we're dropping you know, of our city

567
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: budget into our policing institution, Uh, that does mean that

568
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: other things can't other services can't happen, right. Um. You know,

569
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: it's not difficult to have a conversation with people. You know,

570
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: folks will often say, oh, well, who's gonna um um,

571
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: who's gonna um, who's gonna solve rapes? Right? And like

572
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: our our police department has no clearance rate on that, right,

573
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: and so it's like nobody, nobody is doing that now

574
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: and so um, and so if that's a way in

575
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: which you expect to be kept safe, then then then

576
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: we you and I should talk about that and we

577
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: as a community need to come up with a structure

578
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: that's actually gonna keep you safe in that way. But

579
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: police and policing is not it. And so um, I

580
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: think that we're going to have to have hundreds of

581
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: those kinds of conversations. Um, you know, some of it

582
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: is encouraging. You know, I've been doing like these socially

583
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: distance backyard conversations in my ward. Um, just because the

584
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: you're so depersonalized on these zoom calls that like people

585
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: will just hijack your meeting and just scream into into

586
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: the into the abyss until everybody's frustrated and logs off.

587
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: And so I've been doing them in person, even though

588
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: it's a little bit danger more dangerous, but but we've

589
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: managed it. And um and uh, and I remember, you know,

590
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: there's this one woman I happened to have been born

591
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: and raised in the war that I live in. You know,

592
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: I just have never moved. Some people move, and some

593
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: of my colleagues are from different parts of the city,

594
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: are parts of the country, and uh, they've they've made

595
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: miniats their home. This has been my home my entire life.

596
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: And so I had this one constituent who's like, you know,

597
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: who's like I've known you since you were you know,

598
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: four years old, And I feel bad saying this, but

599
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: like I can't support you anymore. Like well, you know,

600
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: it's like was yelling at me, and then like a

601
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: week later was like pulled me aside at a different

602
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: community meeting, was like, you know what, Jeremiah, I really

603
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying. And and and I get it,

604
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm starting to I'm slowly starting to

605
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: get it. And so it's not impossible to to win

606
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: these arguments. But um, but if we don't have but

607
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: we don't have the power of like a headline, we

608
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: don't have the power of like um you know of

609
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: honestly of like the political machine of like a police Um.

610
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: Everybody will say they hate the police union, but then

611
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: they'll gobble up the police unions, talking police right, the media, everybody,

612
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: you know, And so we just don't have those kinds

613
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: of political machines that can churn out um messaging. But

614
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: those those little conversations, if we can continue to have

615
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: hundreds of them over the course of the next year, Um,

616
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: they do, they do stick a little harder than a

617
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: headline or or or or sort of like people being

618
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: bombarded with propaganda. Do you still think there's hope for

619
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: you know, that thing that was the headline of of

620
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: of Minneapolis no longer having the MP d is that

621
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: a thing that you have hoped for, not in like

622
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: the long long run, but in you know, a time

623
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: frame that's not you know, distant in the future. Yeah,

624
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: I think I do have hope for that. I think that,

625
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: you know, and I also think that and maybe this

626
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: is like a little bleak. I don't mean to sound

627
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: de fetus, but I also think that we could make

628
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: um a push here, push harder than anybody has ever

629
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: pushed before. UM that you know that we sort of

630
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: have a more centrist backlash in these local elections. Maybe

631
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: all the leftists on the council lose their elections were

632
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: up and then and then the work is undone. But

633
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: even that would be a success because to me, if

634
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: we can if we can create an example that can

635
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 1: even be pointed to later down the line for somebody

636
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: to follow, that's that's a plus for me. Now, my

637
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: hope is that, uh, we're gonna get this done. We're

638
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: going to establish the Office of of Public Safety and

639
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: Violence Prevention UM, and we're gonna slowly start to shrink

640
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: the footprint of the police while we beef up these

641
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: other services UM with regards to mental health response and

642
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: YadA YadA, YadA. I'm hoping that we can do that

643
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: start to do that work within the next year year

644
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: and a half. My hope was that we could do

645
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: that work, um starting this November, if we were able

646
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: to get the Charter amendment on the ballot. But with

647
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: the Charter as written, there's limits to how much we

648
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: can shrink the police force and so um, and so

649
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: I think I think that there is hope for that. Um.

650
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: Obviously with with all of sort of the more left

651
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: leaning council members, you know, being on the ballot. If

652
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: you know, if if we all lose our elections, that

653
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: will tell us everything we need to know about how

654
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: successful we were in in persuading our constituents to go

655
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: this direction with us. No, I mean, I'm I'm just

656
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: curious when it comes to because this is the thing

657
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: we're also dealing with in Portland, right is, like all

658
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: of this is happening, and everybody claims that the majority

659
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: of people are on their side, right, the police claim that, like, uh,

660
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: the right wing claims, you know, the left wing claims,

661
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: and I and you know, it's not like the presidential election.

662
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: There's not a bunch of polsters wandering around Minneapolis or

663
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: Portland trying to figure out how people feel about this stuff,

664
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: because that's just shot polsters, posters go for like the

665
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: big national ship. See you're kind of in the dark.

666
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: Do you have any is it really going to be

667
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: a situation where like one we're just gonna learn if

668
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: we get reelected that they that they're on board or not. Um,

669
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: do you have any other kind of like barometers that

670
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 1: you're able to tell sort of where people are right now? Uh? Yeah, yeah,

671
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: a little bit. So. So one of the things is, um,

672
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 1: these are you know, these positions are extremely local, right,

673
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: Like I represent in no uncertain terms my neighbors, right, Like, um,

674
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: if you're a congress person, right, Like my congress person

675
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: is Ilhan Omar, who I love and I think it's great. Um,

676
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: But like Ilhan represents a large swath of people. She

677
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: can't possibly know everybody in her who she represents, right

678
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: And in Washington, d C. I'm kind of I represent

679
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 1: few enough people that I can kind of know a

680
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: lot of them, right, And so um that puts me

681
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: in a position to, you know, so I might so

682
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: I might get you know a lot of folks, um,

683
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: you know, at a community meeting or by a lot.

684
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 1: I mean, like fifteen or twenty saying one thing right,

685
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: telling me that I shouldn't be pursuing this path. Um.

686
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 1: I might get a pastor that says, you know, this

687
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: is this is crazy, Jeremiah. You know the police. You

688
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: know one time the church was broken into and the

689
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: police were helpful. Right, But I'm also gonna get like

690
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: another pastor who says just the opposite. And when I'm

691
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: walking my dog, um um, you know in the morning,

692
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to get a ton of neighbors to just

693
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: run out and tell me I'm doing a great job. Right.

694
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: So there's a So I think that there's a there's

695
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: a you represent few enough people in these positions to

696
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: be able to get some sense. Your neighbors aren't pelting

697
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: you with rocks as you are as well as I

698
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: walk the dog, and I take that as a good sign.

699
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: And so um, and so I think so that's one way.

700
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 1: We did have one of our local organizations reached out

701
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: to an organization that does polling. And we do know

702
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: that the that the the the prospective charter language was

703
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 1: polling well. Right now, does that mean that the charter

704
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: language was not quite like a defund or abolished the

705
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: police charter. That's not what it would have done. What

706
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: what the charter language would have done was allowed us

707
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: a lot of flexibility to take public safety in different

708
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: different directions. Um. And it was polling well and we

709
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,919
Speaker 1: do know that, right, And so I think that those

710
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 1: are some of the things that are sort of continuing

711
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: to give me hope about you know, what's you know,

712
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: how people are feeling. But by and large, I do

713
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 1: think it will be hard to know how people are feeling,

714
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: um until until local elections. Um. And uh, you know,

715
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: and I again, I'm I'm very rooted in my ward

716
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: because I grew up here. Um, but you know, it's

717
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: hard to It's hard to know. Um if if we

718
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: if I one of my colleagues who's sort of I

719
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: would say, more on the left, even one of them

720
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: loses their election, Um, all of a sudden, you know,

721
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 1: I think I think it becomes a lot harder for

722
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 1: us to be to mount this progressive push on a

723
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: consistent basis welcome together, everything down, down down. So yeah,

724
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: I mean they are to some extent just sort of

725
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 1: waiting to learn if people like what you're trying to do.

726
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 1: When you get to do it, so it's the kind

727
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: of thing if you get back, if you get re

728
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: elected in one, you have a lot more power to

729
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: actually push this through to the end and make this

730
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: ship happen. Yeah, I can basically take that as like

731
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 1: a mandate from the people. Whereas right now I'm operating

732
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 1: a lot on instincts, you know, right, right, right, and

733
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: you know, in completely unprecedented times, which I just want

734
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: to say, you know, from the perspective of someone who

735
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: is watching a guy like I'm I'm I'm looking at

736
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: like our mayor here in Portland, Uh is a feckless coward? Um,

737
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: I would I can say as an objective journalist, right, Like,

738
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: it's not an opinion that that's that's like, that's something

739
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: I can prove mathematically that he's a feckless coward. I'll

740
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: go into court and testify that. I'll talk, I'll sit

741
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: down with the FBI and tell them that, like, right, like,

742
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 1: I I feel confident in arguing that as a matter

743
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: of fact rather than opinion. Um, every other question you

744
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: want your lawyer, But if they ask you that, yeah, no,

745
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: he is absolutely like we we can yes, I'm happy

746
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: to tell you this. Um uh yeah, So and I

747
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: it's this, it's this. The thing that has been so

748
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: disgusting with him is that he's this guy who clearly

749
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: thought this would be an easy gig because he was

750
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: running like sixteen. He was thinking Hillary was going to

751
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: be national like Hill, be part of this big blue wave.

752
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: He'll do is four years as the mayor of Portland,

753
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: and then he'll move on to the governorship or who

754
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: go into Congress or whatever, and that'll this will be

755
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: part of his pathway maybe did the presidency or to

756
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: a cabinet position or something. Um. And you know, he

757
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: winds up becoming mayor at a very difficult time to

758
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: be mayor in Portland, and he completely fails to rise

759
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: to the challenge and punts on every critical issue, and

760
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: a tremendous number of people are hurt and a significant

761
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: number of people are killed as a result of is

762
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: at least a partial result of his complete inability to

763
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: sort of rise to and deal with the situation that

764
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: he found himself in. And it's been very much the

765
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: opposite for you in your colleagues, like you have been,

766
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: you found yourself in this completely fucking unprecedented position. UM,

767
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: I feel confident saying no, no city council member of

768
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 1: Minneapolis in recent memory has had to deal with something

769
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: like this, right, oh, eight crash, like the financial crash, right,

770
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: like that's the closest. Yeah, And there wasn't a pandemic. Yeah,

771
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 1: and people didn't burn down the third nobody. So I

772
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: I just I think it's it's deeply honorable and impressive

773
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: the way in which y'all have at least met this

774
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: head on, right, Like, we'll see how it all works

775
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: out in the end, But you didn't flinch from the

776
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,280
Speaker 1: fact that, like you were in a position of power

777
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: during a moment of historic import and and instead you

778
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: tried to do something And that's, uh, that's wonderful. Yeah. No,

779
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And I think that, like, you know,

780
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: I can be an incredibly competitive person, you know, I

781
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 1: think that I don't know how you even run for

782
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: office if you're not at least a little bit competitive

783
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: and so um and so you know, a part of

784
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: me like is not quite ready to to to pat

785
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: us on the back, right and like and I know

786
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: that like, um, you know, even even as some of

787
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: the arguments came out, like when we were when we

788
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: were pushing for the charter change, which all my colleagues,

789
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 1: I think, on paper agree it was a um um,

790
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: you know, the good the best direction to go and

791
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 1: allow us a lot of flexibility. And you've seen, I've

792
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: seeing just a number of my colleagues already start to

793
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: buckle to this really this propaganda that somehow the increase

794
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: in violence is linked to this discussion that we're trying

795
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: to have, right and and I and I just like

796
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, and I think that this is winnable, right Like,

797
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: I think this is winnable. And I won't give myself

798
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: any credit until until we win it um or or

799
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: until we just completely completely fail. Um and so and

800
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: so I'm I'm I'm hoping, I guess all that to say,

801
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm cautiously hopeful that that that people are

802
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 1: ready to have this conversation. And when you think about

803
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,720
Speaker 1: like what the what we imagine the police to do

804
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: and what they actually do, you know, there's this huge disconnect,

805
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: right my my colleague, one of my colleagues, um um,

806
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: I don't know if he would want to be named,

807
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: so so I won't name him. But one of my

808
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: colleagues talked about, uh, you know, sort of how the

809
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 1: police expected his right along to be this like eye

810
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: opening experience of like how hard their job was and

811
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: you know, and and what he discovered. You know, it's

812
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: just like just how like how little accountability there is,

813
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: right and how much time is wasted. And also you know,

814
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: we have certain procedures. For instance, you know, if if

815
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: a cop gets gets shoved, they can basically press a

816
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: button on their uniform and every single cop in the

817
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: city will go go to them to help them with

818
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: their with what they're dealing with the yeah, yeah, right,

819
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: right right. And it's like it's like and it's like

820
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: do people know that at any given moment in the

821
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: middle of the night, like they think that police are

822
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: patrolling their neighborhood, but like maybe every single police in

823
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: the city is like over at um over along the

824
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: lake because some teenager head butted a cop or something.

825
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,879
Speaker 1: You know, Like, you know, it's like our practices are

826
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: are extremely inefficient, are our police's methods are extremely brutal?

827
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: Um they demand zero accountability um and and nothing has

828
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: proven that more. You know, if you if we had

829
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 1: even any cops at all who were who were who

830
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: are out there publicly saying you know, hey, you know

831
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: what We're not afraid of bar oversight because we think

832
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: what we do is totally on the up and up.

833
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: Then like that would make that would sort of make

834
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: you know, I would have I think a harder conversation, um,

835
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: you know, with my constituency, with myself about what the

836
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 1: right thing to do is. But but at every turn, um,

837
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: our police union did this media blitz and UM that

838
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: was supposed to be sort of like there, um, oh

839
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: my god, look at us. The council is picking on us,

840
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: and uh, they continued to make sort of gaff after gaffs.

841
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: One of the women was like, uh, was asked a

842
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: question about we only have about um, uh, about six

843
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: or seven percent of our cops actually live in the city, right, Um,

844
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 1: and so of our police officers on the Minneapolis Police

845
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: Department don't live in the city. And she was asked

846
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: a question. One of their union reps was asked a

847
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 1: question and she said, oh, well, like Minneapolis, Uh, grocery store.

848
00:44:58,400 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 1: I don't want to be at the grocery stores with

849
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: my two beautiful girls and and like running into rapeis

850
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: and murderers. And it's like, what do you think going

851
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: to the grocery store? I mean this is like, you know,

852
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: that doesn't Yeah, it doesn't seem like you like this

853
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: community very not at it doesn't seem like you consider

854
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: yourself a part of this community. For somebody with a

855
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: gun going around isn't great to have. Absolutely, you know you, Um, Robert,

856
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: you made you made a good point on on one

857
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: of your episodes from Behind the Police that was like,

858
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: you know, um, police didn't even have guns as standard

859
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: issue until like the nineteen forties. I'm quoting you, So

860
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: I'm hoping hoping your infos right on that. Well, it was,

861
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 1: it was, it was a bit it was bit earlier

862
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: than that, But yeah, they didn't initially have firearms standard issue,

863
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 1: like especially even in the early nineteen hundreds, right, I mean,

864
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: and so I think about like how how difficult it is,

865
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: like once there's something about our collective imagination in terms

866
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,879
Speaker 1: of like what it means to be safe or what

867
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: keeps us safe? Uh, that that that that doesn't allow

868
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: us to even reconsider fairly new concepts. I mean, the

869
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: Minneapolis Police Department has only been in existence for about

870
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty years. I think it's a hundred

871
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 1: and fifty three years. And so for a hundred and

872
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: fifty three years, which in the grand scheme of things

873
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 1: is not that long. We've basically done public safety one

874
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: way and we've never tried anything else. Uh. And yet

875
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 1: if you were to tell people, you know what, if

876
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: we were to build a public safety system that wasn't

877
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: this one. Uh, they just act like, you know, they

878
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: act like, you know, well, this is how they did

879
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: it when Jesus was around. This is how well not

880
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: quite like you know, like, there's there's got to be

881
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: other ways, you know, this isn't this wasn't like yeah, yeah,

882
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that really bums me

883
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: out is um and this is like a broader issue

884
00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: for me, is the is what's happened with television in

885
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: broad And I'm not trying to be like an old

886
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: man TVs corrupting kids, but like what is on television

887
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: is a reflection of what we're able to imagine as

888
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: a culture. Right. And so you know, in the in

889
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,879
Speaker 1: the nineties, we had, uh, you had shows like Star

890
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 1: Trek the Next Generation which were like this this really

891
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: optimistic view about the future. And even before then, when

892
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: I was when I was a little kid, the show

893
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: that my parents would show me, UM that that was

894
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: like their view of like this is how, this is

895
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: how the country ought to operate. Was The Andy Griffith Show,

896
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: which was a show about a sheriff named Andy Griffith

897
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: and like small town America and like the fifties or

898
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: something like that. And one of the things that was

899
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: like one of the things about Andy as a sheriff

900
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: is that he didn't carry a gun. And there were

901
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: actually a couple of episodes that were all focused around

902
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 1: the fact that he refused to carry a gun because

903
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: he he thought that if he if he went into

904
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 1: a conflict situation carrying a gun, then people would see

905
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 1: him as someone who was primarily there to use force

906
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: to to to like make them comply, and that's not

907
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: what he wanted to be because his goal was to

908
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: make his community safer, and so he thought that that

909
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: walking into situations with a gun actually made his community

910
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: less safe, and so he didn't do it. Um And

911
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: that was like one of those popular shows on American

912
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:23,479
Speaker 1: television and like the sixties or whatever, the radical idea, Yeah,

913
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 1: in no way would you get that on TV today,

914
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: Like they're like it's not and this is again, this

915
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: is obviously a time when like like sucking everybody in

916
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: Andy's town pretty much as a white person. So I'm

917
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: not trying to say like the Andy Griffith Show was

918
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: like some perfect you know. But but but the fact

919
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: that the fact that back in those days, you could

920
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: have a show where it's like, would it be neat

921
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: if cops didn't carry guns? And everybody's kind of like, yes,

922
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: that is nice. Um, And now it's just inconceivable that

923
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: you would have a TV show, in an American TV

924
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: show about American cops who are unarmed. Oh man, Yeah,

925
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: you know. There was a there was a funny there

926
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: was like an interview with uh with Boots Riley where

927
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,720
Speaker 1: he was talking about how like, you know, superhero films,

928
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: which like I grew up on comics. I love, I love, like,

929
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: you know, all the superhero films. But he said a

930
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: lot of these superhero film films are are cop movies

931
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: right there there, movies, and um and that has made it,

932
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: you know, really mad at Boots Riley for saying that,

933
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: because that has made it really difficult for me to

934
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: enjoy superhero films. Um. But I went back recently and

935
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,760
Speaker 1: I was watching, Um, I was watching like Batman begins

936
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: and in the Dark Night, and like, you know, those

937
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: movies to me are now basically unwatchable, not because uh,

938
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 1: you know, there's the obvious sort of ridiculous premise of

939
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 1: like Batman joke or these characters that are like whatever,

940
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: but like there there are just these little assumptions that

941
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: aren't supposed to be a part of the fantasy, right,

942
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 1: Like Batman is supposed to be the fantasy, and Scarecrow

943
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: is supposed to be the fantasy part of the story.

944
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 1: But there are these little things that aren't supposed to

945
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: be a part of the fantasy, but might be a

946
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: little bit more fantasy than the concept of Batman. One

947
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: of them is at like the treatment of like criminals

948
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: in those movies. It's almost like it's almost like being

949
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: a criminal is encrypted into your DNA, right, this this

950
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: this idea. And so sometimes I'll hear constituents and the

951
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: way that they talk about the homeless or the poor

952
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,760
Speaker 1: or criminal or the people are people who commit crimes,

953
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: and the way to talk about it just feels baffling

954
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: to me, And I'm just like I can't, I can't

955
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: under I can't get on the same page with them.

956
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: And then I watch Batman begins and I'm like, oh,

957
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: this is what this is their concept of who a

958
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: criminal is, right, this is what they It's just this

959
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: person who is inherently this way, doesn't matter their life circumstances.

960
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: You know. That's why when I'm talking about um jobs

961
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: program or whatever or the economy, that sounds that sounds

962
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: bizarre and besides the point to them, because to them,

963
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: the criminals just sort of this inherent you know, almost

964
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: you know, genetic thing within a person. Um. And that

965
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: when I got got up there and said that we're

966
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,839
Speaker 1: going to dismantle the police department, all the criminals heard

967
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: me and decide that I was giving them a free

968
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: pass to to go commit crimes. I mean, that's a

969
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: that's a really weird way to conceptualize why crime happens

970
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: in my opinion, right, um and so uh and so

971
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,240
Speaker 1: I think that like and and so we're up against

972
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: the kind of mythology that that like that like Batman

973
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 1: begins in you know, in shrines in crypts into people.

974
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 1: Then like that's that's that's a tall hill. It could

975
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: be a pretty tall hill to to overcome. Not only

976
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: not only that, um, there are criminals and they're just

977
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: like that's how they are, and that's how they're always

978
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: going to be. But that also there will always be crime.

979
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: Like not only is that embedded in the criminals, but

980
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: crime is embedded in our communities, and there's nothing to

981
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: do about it other than well you stop him and

982
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: you put him in jail. Oh and then if they

983
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 1: get out, well they're gonna do another crime, because there's

984
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 1: always gonna be criminals. There's no there's no solution to it. Really,

985
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely yeah. I had I had a police officer

986
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: say to me, um, uh he called me and we

987
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: kind of got into an argument, and he was like, uh,

988
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: he had made a statement that I had actually applauded

989
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 1: him for like a couple of months ago. He had

990
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: made a statement saying something like, you know, three to

991
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 1: six percent of cops shouldn't be cops. And I remember

992
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 1: at the time, I was like, oh man, it's almost

993
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 1: like a revolutionary thing to admit these days, right, be

994
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: a little higher, but yeah, right right right, So so

995
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 1: I remember. So then like a couple of months later,

996
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: you know, I you know, he's calling me because he

997
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:27,720
Speaker 1: was upset about my position around dismantling the police department

998
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: and and and uh and we're having this this conversation,

999
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: and he says, oh, you know me, you know, uh Jeremiah, Like,

1000
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, I'm gonna call it like I see it.

1001
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say whatever I want to say. You know,

1002
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: I stood up there and said that three three or

1003
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 1: six percent of cops shouldn't be cops and and the

1004
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: same way that you know, three three to six percent

1005
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 1: of the community needs to be locked up. I was like,

1006
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, that is not the same.

1007
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 1: I was like, no, not, um, and this is and

1008
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: this is coming from one of the this is coming

1009
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 1: from an officer who you know, I think prior to

1010
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: that conversation, I would say, like kind of gets it

1011
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 1: better than most of officers. Sure, the fact that he's

1012
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 1: willing to admit that a significant portion of police shouldn't

1013
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: be police again, something right, right, right? So if a

1014
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: guy who kind of gets it is getting it that wrong,

1015
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: like what what what what do we think those guys

1016
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: you know in in the squad cars are are saying

1017
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 1: doing thinking, Um, it's it's it's unreformable. In my opinion, Yeah, yeah,

1018
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,359
Speaker 1: you have some you know, it's it's the hammer, it's

1019
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: the hammer and nail thing, except for like the problem

1020
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: that we're like, what we're trying to do here is

1021
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: like we're trying to um to like polish glass or whatever,

1022
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, you know, sometimes you have hammers

1023
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: that are better than others, but none of them are

1024
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: the right tools for this job, right right, right, Yeah, yeah,

1025
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: I guess the last thing I'm really curious about is

1026
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,919
Speaker 1: um And I don't know if this has been something

1027
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: y'all have dealt with or not, but I can folks

1028
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 1: get angry when you talk about things like, uh, getting

1029
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,399
Speaker 1: rid of police forces. UM, it gets it's extremely politicized

1030
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: right away. I'm wondering did y'all deal with any of

1031
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: that sort of like internet hate mob stuff coming down

1032
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 1: on your heads after your you know, your your big

1033
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 1: vote went very viral. Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean some

1034
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: of us more so than others. You know. UM, I remember,

1035
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I probably was getting more hate

1036
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 1: mail than I probably ever have gotten, most of it virtual,

1037
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: but then I got something sent to my house and um,

1038
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: and then it was funny because I I like told

1039
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 1: my dad about it was like, oh yeah, like I

1040
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,919
Speaker 1: got hate mail set to the house and and then

1041
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 1: like a few hours later, I got a call and

1042
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: the FBI was like, We're gonna come pick up that

1043
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 1: hate mail from your house. So I'm like, oh, that's weird.

1044
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:07,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would, you know, the FBI

1045
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 1: have my house, but um, but the but they came

1046
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 1: and picked up the hate mail and and you know,

1047
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 1: who knows what what they're going to do with it,

1048
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 1: but um, but yeah, certainly, and and some of it

1049
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: was some of it can be pretty scary. I know

1050
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: that I'm lucky enough to like have a good relationship

1051
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 1: with my neighbors. I had a lot of friends who

1052
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: are legally armed themselves who were like, hey, look, you

1053
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,240
Speaker 1: know you're out there doing patrols at night, Like will

1054
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: post up at your house and make sure that that

1055
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: that nothing um shady's going on. But not all of

1056
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: my colleagues had that. And you know, there was a

1057
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 1: lot of my colleagues got some flag, you know, because

1058
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: they accepted, you know, some private security when they were

1059
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: getting very specific death threats. And I was offered that

1060
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: same security. I turned it down because again, I I

1061
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: just had had this network that was willing to sort

1062
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 1: of do some of that work. And you know, and

1063
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,959
Speaker 1: I think that some of the flag is probably unwarranted

1064
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,839
Speaker 1: because when you're getting death threats, and especially if you're

1065
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 1: a city councilperson, you know, look, we we got and

1066
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,720
Speaker 1: most of us got into into this because we're looking

1067
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 1: to like, you know, we're we're dealing with zoning laws.

1068
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: You know, we're like you know, we're we're doing like

1069
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: most of them are like community planners. I'm a muralist,

1070
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:21,280
Speaker 1: you know. Um, and so when you start getting death threats, um,

1071
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: it's hard to know exactly what you're what your next

1072
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: move should be. Uh and so and so a lot

1073
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 1: of that was scary for a lot of my colleagues,

1074
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 1: some of whom did accept some private security um. But

1075
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 1: again it all ended up amounting to just a lot

1076
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 1: of hot air. Um. But you never want to just

1077
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 1: assume that nobody's gonna make good on some of the

1078
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:46,359
Speaker 1: threats that you're good, Yeah, you have no idea what

1079
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 1: those threats is that like you just can't know, right

1080
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 1: right right? Um? So yeah, so I know, I know,

1081
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: like everybody was, like I was at first hit not

1082
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,280
Speaker 1: taking it very seriously. But I told a few friends

1083
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: just sort of like, hey, this is a crazy thing

1084
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: that happened. Uh. And then immediately just like a bunch

1085
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 1: of my friends were like armed posted up outside of

1086
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: my house. Like I'm like, okay, all right, I appreciate

1087
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: you guys. I don't know if this is necessary, but

1088
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I appreciate it. So so yeah, yeah,

1089
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 1: well all right, Um, Jeremiah, I think we're Um. That's

1090
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: that's everything I had to ask. Um. Thank you so

1091
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: much for your time. This was a great conversation. Yeah.

1092
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 1: And for having those conversations with people individually, that's where

1093
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: that's where, that's where the real convincing happens. Yeah, thank

1094
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 1: you for taking concerted action to try to improve the

1095
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: material conditions of human beings on planet Earth. Also, just

1096
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 1: to our listeners, I want to point out this is

1097
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: such a good example of someone getting involved on a

1098
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: local level, you know, and changing politics and doing the

1099
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: incremental work and sometimes the drastic work you know that

1100
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: it takes to change public opinion to move the needle. Um,

1101
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: it's vital. Thank you. Yeah. And you know, and I

1102
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,479
Speaker 1: think that there are right before this, right before hopping

1103
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 1: on on this call with you all, I was on

1104
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: a call with a couple of council members from from

1105
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: Seattle and Austin who are all trying to move you know,

1106
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: similar things to us as here in Minneapolis. And I

1107
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: think that like if folks um are looking for you know,

1108
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna promise that every you know, every city

1109
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 1: has that person that is really pushing hard. I have

1110
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 1: no idea, but I know that there are a lot

1111
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 1: of cities. There are some folks in New York. There

1112
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: are some folks you know in Chicago that are like

1113
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: you know again, city councils. It's not the sexy work

1114
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: of like being in Congress or even being in like

1115
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: a state house or state Assembly, but there are probably

1116
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 1: some really radical folks quietly pushing. And so find those

1117
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: folks because they're they're they're gonna instill a little bit

1118
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: of hope, and they're gonna be maybe more courageous um.

1119
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 1: And often a lot of folks at the local level,

1120
00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: Certainly there are folks at the local level who are

1121
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: who are career us. But often you know, uh, you're

1122
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: that city council member is not just some careers. They're

1123
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 1: willing to take some big risks, say a big thing,

1124
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: say a radical thing. Um. So I encourage people to

1125
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: find find whoever that is in there in in their city.

1126
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: Can you tell our listeners where they can find you

1127
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: online or promote anything you want to promote. Yeah, so

1128
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: I'm uh so Jeremiah for North on Twitter. They're welcome

1129
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 1: to friend me on Facebook or follow my page. Uh,

1130
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: you know, Jeremiah Ellison four ward five. Uh and uh

1131
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 1: And I don't think I have anything to promote just

1132
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 1: you know, other than vote in November, you know. And uh,

1133
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: I guess you know, if folks opt opt not to vote,

1134
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna shame anybody. I don't think that works.

1135
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: But um, I do think that, you know, it's it's

1136
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: an important thing to do. I'm the chair of the

1137
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 1: Elections and Rules Committee and so my in my city,

1138
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: so I kind of have to have to advocate for

1139
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 1: people voting. So um yeah, yeah, thank you again. And

1140
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 1: you can check us out online is well, at worst

1141
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 1: your pod on Instagram and Twitter. You know who we

1142
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: are on Twitter. It'll be in the tweets. Yeah, you're

1143
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: aware of us, You're aware, You're you know, you're fine.

1144
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: Love it, you love to see it. All Right, this

1145
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: took a turn. And the last thing I want to

1146
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 1: say is my sister really appreciated the Phillish Shlackley episodes.

1147
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, so uh so yes, I just wanted

1148
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 1: to wanted to put that plug in. So. She had

1149
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 1: learned about Phillis Shlackly when she was in college and

1150
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: was like, somebody else knows what a monster? Yeah yeah,

1151
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: yeah yeah yeah yeah. Well all right, that's the episode.

1152
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 1: Everyone go get elected to your city council and remove

1153
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 1: your own cities police departments. Go do it right now,

1154
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 1: do it before the day is done. Like no excuses,

1155
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: get out there and do it. I'm a lot stick

1156
01:00:53,640 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: and everything great. I read Daniel. Worst Year Ever is

1157
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from

1158
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1159
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.