WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Mariko Aoki Phenomenon

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, I'm welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh. There's

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<v Speaker 1>Chuck and Ben's here too, sitting in for Dave.

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<v Speaker 2>Ben.

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<v Speaker 1>This is short stuff, the New Reality.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. I'm glad that you found this because I

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<v Speaker 2>have experienced this in a slightly different way, and I

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<v Speaker 2>never knew that it was a thing, and now I do.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I had no idea it was a thing either.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't remember where I heard of this. I'm guessing

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<v Speaker 1>you me, it just seems like the kind of thing

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<v Speaker 1>she would have sent me. But we have to shout

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<v Speaker 1>out McGill University, IFL Science and Science Times for helping

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<v Speaker 1>round this idea hour this story out. But we're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about something called the Marico Aoki phenomenon, which is a

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<v Speaker 1>very specific phenomenon. It's where some people go into a

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<v Speaker 1>bookstore and are overwhelmed with the urge, sometimes an urgent

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<v Speaker 1>urge to poop in that bookstore, not like in the

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<v Speaker 1>aisles of the bookstore, but to go to the bathroom

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<v Speaker 1>in the bookstore to poop.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so here's my story. In high school, still one

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<v Speaker 2>of my very best friends, Jim, I say, you know, Jim,

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<v Speaker 2>Jim and I had an afternoon radio show, which was

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<v Speaker 2>over the intercom of the school, and it was basically

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<v Speaker 2>instead of the principal reading the daily announcements, we asked

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<v Speaker 2>if we could take it over and round it out

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<v Speaker 2>with jokes and top ten lists and what have you.

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<v Speaker 2>So we had WRHS was our dumb little show.

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<v Speaker 1>So wait, this was officially sanctioned. It wasn't pirate School Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, no. It was us in the principal's office

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<v Speaker 2>like on the microphone every day. I mean that was

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<v Speaker 2>looking back, it was the start of stuff you should know,

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<v Speaker 2>which is funny. Oh wow, But we did. When we

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<v Speaker 2>would meet to write the show. Every day, we would

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<v Speaker 2>meet in the empty auditorium where they did school plays,

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<v Speaker 2>and every time we were in there, both of us

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<v Speaker 2>had to poop and we used to laugh about it

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<v Speaker 2>and talk about it. And now that I see sort

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<v Speaker 2>of some of the similarities between that empty, quiet auditorium

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<v Speaker 2>and a sort of a large, maybe cavernous, quiet bookstore,

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<v Speaker 2>I now know this is a thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I was not expecting a personal anecdote from you for

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<v Speaker 1>this one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, this goes back to the eighties, Jim

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<v Speaker 2>and I. He'll laugh when I tell him this is

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<v Speaker 2>an actual thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's appropriate because the Marico Aoki phenomenon goes back

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<v Speaker 1>to the eighties too, all.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, so we should probably talk about where it

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<v Speaker 2>came from, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it came from a Japanese woman named Mariko Aoki.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. And she sent a letter to a magazine

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<v Speaker 2>in what nineteen eighty five and the issue of han

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<v Speaker 2>no Zashi? Is that right?

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<v Speaker 1>Close enough?

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<v Speaker 2>How would you say it?

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<v Speaker 1>Han no Zashi?

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<v Speaker 2>Didn't that what I said?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay? And she wrote a letter to the you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like a letter to the editor kind of thing, where

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<v Speaker 2>she said, I'm not sure why, but since about two

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<v Speaker 2>or three years ago, whenever I go to a bookstore,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm struck by an urge to move my bowels. They

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<v Speaker 2>printed it, just the letter to the editor, and then

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<v Speaker 2>got so many responses from people saying me too, that

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<v Speaker 2>the next issue had a fourteen page feature article on

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<v Speaker 2>the headline was the phenomenon currently shaking the bookstore industry.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it became like such a thing that it

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<v Speaker 1>took her name, Marico Aoki. Even though there has been

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<v Speaker 1>people have turned up mentions of this kind of thing

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<v Speaker 1>as far back as the fifties, I could not find

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<v Speaker 1>any original source material of that, but I think I'm

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<v Speaker 1>willing to take IFL Science on their word if they

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<v Speaker 1>were the one where I got it from. But in

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<v Speaker 1>Japan it kicked off like a trend, right, So there

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<v Speaker 1>were kind of like game show informal studies of what

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<v Speaker 1>exactly was going on, and they did turn up some data,

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<v Speaker 1>not exactly like you know, peer review shorthy data, but

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<v Speaker 1>they found that about ten percent of the respondence in

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<v Speaker 1>Japan feel the urge to poop when they go into

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<v Speaker 1>the bookstore. So the Marryoki Aoki phenomenon is it covers

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<v Speaker 1>about ten percent of the population. I'm squarely in the

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<v Speaker 1>ninety percent. You're apparently in the ten percent.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, I haven't tested it with a bookstore,

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<v Speaker 2>but there are similarities between. For us, it always felt

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<v Speaker 2>like like Jim's theory was that it was a big

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<v Speaker 2>being alone in a very big, large, empty quiet.

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<v Speaker 1>Space like a colon.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess so, but you know, a bookstore isn't empty,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's not like going to a concert. It is

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<v Speaker 2>generally pretty quiet, so and there's like some there's a

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<v Speaker 2>privacy aspect I think to a bookstore. I mean I'm

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<v Speaker 2>thinking larger bookstores, not like you know, the tiny mom

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<v Speaker 2>and pops, which I love. So I don't know that

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<v Speaker 2>was his theory. Lease, so I guess I'm in that

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<v Speaker 2>ten percent. I'll go to a bookstore and I'll let

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<v Speaker 2>you know.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll report back for sure. As a matter of fact,

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<v Speaker 1>we should live stream on stuff. You should know, like

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<v Speaker 1>one of our social it's true.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, you might He'll be right back. Should

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<v Speaker 2>we take a break, Yeah, all right, we'll come back

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<v Speaker 2>and talk about some of the theories right after this.

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<v Speaker 2>If you want to know, then you're in luck. Just

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<v Speaker 2>listen to Chuck selfus.

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<v Speaker 1>Chuck, I think I speak on behalf of at least

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<v Speaker 1>half of the people listening. Would you and Jim go

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<v Speaker 1>poop at the same time, or would you like take turns?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't remember that part. I don't even know if

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<v Speaker 2>we went and pooped or if it was just like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh I got a poop, I see, I see.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Yeah, so yeah, anyway, we're back.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're back. There is no like serious science probably

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<v Speaker 2>about this, but there are a lot of pretty interesting theories,

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<v Speaker 2>and one of them is something that we've talked about.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, we did a whole show sort of, didn't

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<v Speaker 2>we about the gut brain axis we did.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>It's something about like when you approach the front door

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<v Speaker 2>of your.

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<v Speaker 1>House, that's the brain bladder connection.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I think this is kind of similar though, right, No, totally.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the second theory, the smell of books, which

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<v Speaker 1>we'll get to, is more brain bladder connection. But the

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<v Speaker 1>gut brain axis would have come up in I guess,

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<v Speaker 1>like I can't remember what it was, but we talked

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<v Speaker 1>about like a whole episode about how there's neurons in

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<v Speaker 1>your gut and like your brain and your gut, your

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<v Speaker 1>central nervous system and your enteric nervous system communicate to

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<v Speaker 1>one another. And so that's probably the likeliest explanation for

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<v Speaker 1>why somebody would feel the urge to poop in a bookstore.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there are some other you know. To me, I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's all of these things added together. There is

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<v Speaker 2>that there is also this sort of connection of like

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<v Speaker 2>people like reading on the toilet has long been something

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<v Speaker 2>that people do, right. People are on their phones now,

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<v Speaker 2>but in the old days, you had that magazine. Rack

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<v Speaker 2>still got a magazine right next to my toilet, and

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<v Speaker 2>we'll read a good magazine. So that connection. Maybe that

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<v Speaker 2>subconscious thing of when you're among those books, your sphincter

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<v Speaker 2>just a moocks, just a little bit, maybe.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. So whatever it was, whatever, if it's

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<v Speaker 1>like the smell of books, that's kind of usually put forth.

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<v Speaker 1>Whatever it is that you associate with a bookstore, and

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<v Speaker 1>then you poop in the bookstore. That's where your gut

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<v Speaker 1>brain access would take over and you develop this association.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you walk into the bookstore, your brain goes, hey, gut,

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<v Speaker 1>we're in a bookstore. You better get busy pooping.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, makes sense. Another one, of course, is a bookstore

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<v Speaker 2>oftentimes there's a lot of squatting. Yeah, if you want

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<v Speaker 2>to book down on that bottom shelf, or you want

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<v Speaker 2>to peruse for a little while on the bottom, you're

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<v Speaker 2>going to be squatting down. And humankind didn't evolve to

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<v Speaker 2>poop like we poop. Now you're supposed to squat. And

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<v Speaker 2>if you've ever in in that dead squat position with

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<v Speaker 2>your butt just barely above the ground and all your weight,

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<v Speaker 2>like everything lines up in such a way to where

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<v Speaker 2>your body goes, oh, it's go.

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<v Speaker 1>Time, it's time, yeah, and he goes.

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<v Speaker 2>So you're in there already, it's quiet. You got the

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<v Speaker 2>smell of the books you're squatting.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, how could anybody not poop?

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<v Speaker 2>You may have a coffee, that's a big one.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of people say, yeah, people drink coffee and

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<v Speaker 1>bookstores and coffee makes you poop.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So I think it's like all this stuff sort

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<v Speaker 2>of adds up to, oh my god, I'm in a bookstore.

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<v Speaker 2>I've got to go.

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<v Speaker 1>There's another theory that isn't specifically identified as from Japan.

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<v Speaker 1>But if it's not from Japan, I will eat my

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<v Speaker 1>hat and I don't even have a hat. I'll go

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<v Speaker 1>buy a hat to eat it. If this isn't a

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<v Speaker 1>Japanese theory, that because life is stressful, when you walk

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<v Speaker 1>into a bookstore, a bookstore is very calm, and so

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<v Speaker 1>you feel relieved and so you want to leave yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think I've ever seen you wear a hat.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got a like a mud hens hat that man,

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<v Speaker 1>my hair has to be pretty messed up for me

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<v Speaker 1>to wear it, but that's my hat.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think i've ever seen you in a hat

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<v Speaker 2>in sixteen years.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's by design.

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<v Speaker 2>I've seen you in shorts maybe twice.

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<v Speaker 1>That was by design as well. What do you think.

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<v Speaker 2>You get some nice legs thanks, And then of course

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<v Speaker 2>you have to think about or at least consider the

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<v Speaker 2>frequency illusion aspect of this. It's a type of confirmation bias,

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<v Speaker 2>whereas once you know this is a thing, you start

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<v Speaker 2>to just it's in your head all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 2>and you're making that connection where it previously didn't exist,

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, you have to kind of consider that

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<v Speaker 2>for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's what skeptics say. They say there's no such

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<v Speaker 1>thing as the Mark Aoki phenomenon, that actually it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>people just have heard of it, and maybe she had

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<v Speaker 1>some sort of Pavlovian training where like the smell of the

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<v Speaker 1>books made her want to poop, but just talk about it.

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<v Speaker 1>It getting published and becoming a thing in Japan, then

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<v Speaker 1>traveling around the world, people started saying like, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I've pooped in bookstores too, So then anytime they poop

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<v Speaker 1>in a bookstore from that point on they notice it.

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<v Speaker 1>It confirms their theory that they're susceptible to the Ma

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<v Speaker 1>Aoki phenomenon, and it just becomes like a self fulfilling prophecy.

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<v Speaker 1>But at the same time they're also ignoring all the

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<v Speaker 1>times they go to the bookstore and don't poop, or

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<v Speaker 1>they go to pet Co and have to poop. You

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to do although you could just poop in

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<v Speaker 1>the aisle and blame it on the dog. But still

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<v Speaker 1>that's part of the frequency illusion.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. So I'm curious to hear from people

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<v Speaker 2>two types of people, people that have experienced this, whether

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<v Speaker 2>in a bookstore or like my situation, like a large

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<v Speaker 2>empty room, or bookstore employees who are like, dude, you

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<v Speaker 2>don't know that the nightmare that we live.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I can imagine, you know, Yeah, I hadn't thought

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<v Speaker 1>about that. Man's better thought for the bookstore employees.

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<v Speaker 2>Huh, wasn't there Seinfeld where George had to go to

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<v Speaker 2>the bathroom in a bookstore?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he found the pastoral scenes very conducive to and

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<v Speaker 1>then Elaine cuts him off. He had to buy a

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<v Speaker 1>book because he took it in the bathroom.

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<v Speaker 2>That's funny.

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<v Speaker 1>There you have it, a book of Impressionist paintings. If

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<v Speaker 1>you well, no, this is not a regular stuff you

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<v Speaker 1>should know episode. Even though in this episode we found

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<v Speaker 1>out the origin of stuff you should know, even I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't know the origin story. And since I'm so hyped,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that can only mean that short stuff is out.

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<v Speaker 2>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

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<v Speaker 2>more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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<v Speaker 2>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.