Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. So
Speaker 1: seventh round pick out of Savannah to a Hall of fame.
Speaker 1: Three times super Bowl Champ talked to me about Alway, McCaffrey,
Speaker 1: Terrell Davis talk to me about those Super Bowl winning
Speaker 1: Bronco teams. I remember going to when I got drafted,
Speaker 1: going to the Broncos. I remember I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I was thinking myself, say, man, John Hill, wait my quarterback.
Speaker 1: First thing, my sister said, Shannon, don't go out there
Speaker 1: bull drive with no John Hilway. You don't know that
Speaker 1: man like that. What I do, that's just that's here.
Speaker 1: And for some reason, guys, he took a liking to me.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe because you know, I, Joe and I kept
Speaker 1: the locker room. I mean, I'm a seventh round draft pick.
Speaker 1: They gave me the number one. So basically I'm just
Speaker 1: a camp body. That's what that's That's what I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to be. And I just remember my brother saying, look,
Speaker 1: just know what you're supposed to do when you get
Speaker 1: your opportunity. He said, Now, John, they always gonna be
Speaker 1: looking for you. Because he knows, big bro. Yeah. He
Speaker 1: was like, Johnny, we're gonna be looking for just be ready.
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to cram, and so they got me
Speaker 1: learned that I'm supposed to learn z. I'm supposed to
Speaker 1: learn to slot. I gotta learn all these positions, and
Speaker 1: I'm struggling. And I remember asking a guy. I said, Man,
Speaker 1: what I got on this play? Right here? He said,
Speaker 1: run this, I run it. It's the wrong route now, yes, yes, here,
Speaker 1: And I'm fighting for the same job. So if I
Speaker 1: he could get me out of the way. But I
Speaker 1: swore to myself, I said, I would never ever do
Speaker 1: that to somebody. I said, if I'm secure in who
Speaker 1: I am and what I am, I don't need to
Speaker 1: be little for me to shine. And so I've always
Speaker 1: went out of my way. But when I got to Denver,
Speaker 1: I was seventh round draft pick. I was a tight end,
Speaker 1: and it just so happens every tight end on the
Speaker 1: roster got hurt. Now I'm the biggest receiver, so I
Speaker 1: go in. I'm like to one. So by the time
Speaker 1: they moved me to the tight end halfway through the season,
Speaker 1: I'm two oh five. So I'm playing tight end at
Speaker 1: two oh five man. They ragged all of me. They're
Speaker 1: throwing me all around in practice, and so I'm thinking
Speaker 1: to myself, I remember all this, how they throwing me around.
Speaker 1: So guess what happened after the run blocking drill, pass
Speaker 1: catching drills. Oh, now let's see who wants to go
Speaker 1: because everybody did. Nobody wanted to go Agive Clarence k
Speaker 1: or to Mobili because they were great run blockers. So
Speaker 1: now I'm looking. I said, all you guys that was counting,
Speaker 1: didn't want to go against c K and Orson, y'all
Speaker 1: need to see me at the lane? Who kill it?
Speaker 1: Wad Philip to the defensive coordinator. So they started practicing me.
Speaker 1: So what I would be I would be the tight
Speaker 1: end from the opposing team. So Scott, I'm gonte, So
Speaker 1: I'm not tight in. I'm cooking. You throw the ball,
Speaker 1: Throw the ball up in the wold. I'm putting the football.
Speaker 1: All of the stacking the ball, I'll do with everything.
Speaker 1: Way Phillis blows the whistle, he's a dan. Put his
Speaker 1: ass in the game, and let's see if they can
Speaker 1: cover him, because we can't damn put in the game.
Speaker 1: And as they say, the rest is far along was
Speaker 1: that this was my this was my rookie year, This
Speaker 1: is my rookie decor wait till wait Phillis come on
Speaker 1: on the first team. All comments sense because I said,
Speaker 1: you got the comment sense and that's what and that
Speaker 1: and that's what, and that's what happened. That's kind of
Speaker 1: how my career started off. And then I just started
Speaker 1: building this this relationship with John. Every tough you know,
Speaker 1: every tough catch that needed to be made to make
Speaker 1: it every because you you can't get that trust in
Speaker 1: the game if he doesn't trust you in practice. So
Speaker 1: and then I started sitting there to him during the meeting.
Speaker 1: I said, okay, well, okay, how you want me to
Speaker 1: how you want me to run this route? I said this, saying,
Speaker 1: go you know two out of four team he says,
Speaker 1: and he would tell me, He's like, okay, let's try twelve,
Speaker 1: knowing that come game time you're gonna be a ten.
Speaker 1: So don't shorten the practice because they'd be short that
Speaker 1: much in practice you're gonna be I'm not gonna be
Speaker 1: ready to throw. And so that was the hardest thing,
Speaker 1: is that learning how to control the speed at tight
Speaker 1: end because they moved me from wide receiver. So I'm
Speaker 1: faster than all the tight ends, and so I was wondering,
Speaker 1: I'm winning in practice, but he's not throwing me the ball.
Speaker 1: And he says, it doesn't do you any good to
Speaker 1: win if I'm not ready to throw you the ball,
Speaker 1: because now by the time I'm ready to throw you
Speaker 1: the ball, the guy you you covered again. So now
Speaker 1: you have to understand. So he's talking to me, he's
Speaker 1: talking through it, what he's seeing, what he wants me
Speaker 1: to do, how he wants me to run certain routes,
Speaker 1: and so I don't know if I can go to
Speaker 1: any of the cause he's very patient with me. So
Speaker 1: they put me in the game. They moved they moved
Speaker 1: me to a tight end, so they put me. The
Speaker 1: gan't on nothing. So I'm struggling trying to learn wide
Speaker 1: and see plays. So they put me in the game.
Speaker 1: They put me in motion the entire game in Denver.
Speaker 1: As I run by alway, he returning around and timbory
Speaker 1: what I got. So I go by in motion. He
Speaker 1: telled me run the out round, go back to the huddle.
Speaker 1: So he called to play. Put me in motion again,
Speaker 1: run a corner blocked the end, so he did that
Speaker 1: for an entire game. I don't know how many guys
Speaker 1: would have had the kind of patients because not only
Speaker 1: he's telling me what I need to do, he also
Speaker 1: got to go through the reads. He got to worry
Speaker 1: about what defense they're running, where he's gonna go with
Speaker 1: the football. But he took enough time and say, so
Speaker 1: you know what, So that just got okay, Now I
Speaker 1: need to get on top of this, and so I
Speaker 1: got more. I started watching more and more take I
Speaker 1: wanted to know as much as information as he did,
Speaker 1: and so it just got where were just like it
Speaker 1: was like second nature. So he had a large part
Speaker 1: to do with my success because he was very very
Speaker 1: patient with me. Dan drafted me Dan reads. He drafted
Speaker 1: me um in the seventh round. But he said, look,
Speaker 1: his brothers and all pro it's got I mean, gotta
Speaker 1: be something. We're gonna find something. We gotta got something.
Speaker 1: So I was on all the special teams, you know,
Speaker 1: which was at the time wide receivers didn't play a
Speaker 1: whole lot. I was gonna kid man, head, bustle man.
Speaker 1: It's stack. Look here he was laying people. I was.
Speaker 1: I was going on the punt team. It's over. They
Speaker 1: couldn't do anything with me. I let they put they
Speaker 1: put the double lot there to put them head up.
Speaker 1: I break through that incredible hole. Get them horses, get
Speaker 1: him get But you know it's different now, you don't
Speaker 1: really try to for me. I would look at I
Speaker 1: was looking at that, I was looking at that kills. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's different. That's why it's so hard to evaluate guys,
Speaker 1: because back when I played, they were trying to put there,
Speaker 1: trying to twist you. You run that seven route like guys,
Speaker 1: I've never seen to run a one step slant roper.
Speaker 1: But you know why because they're not word about that
Speaker 1: kind of punishment that there was doling out back then.
Speaker 1: What you're running one step slaying right? It was over.
Speaker 1: It was over. But now, so that's why it's so
Speaker 1: hard for us to evaluate. When they said, well what
Speaker 1: about this guy? What about that guy? The rules have
Speaker 1: been changed so much. The way they attacked the quarterback,
Speaker 1: the way that our defenseless receiver, like, what was the
Speaker 1: defenseless receiver he got on him and show the pass
Speaker 1: he's not defens Yes, you're on the football field, you
Speaker 1: should expect to get hit. But and then and then
Speaker 1: you know air came later, to real came later, and
Speaker 1: then we started Mike Shanahan with my offensive coordinator. When
Speaker 1: I first got there, he leaves comes back as the
Speaker 1: head coach. And then Mike was tough the expectations. He
Speaker 1: expects you to make every play, no excuses. He came in,
Speaker 1: you catch the pass finished forty yards, so he was
Speaker 1: way down the field, so we had to catch. I
Speaker 1: might catch a five yard route taken, but I had
Speaker 1: to run forty yards because that's what Jerry nice den
Speaker 1: and so that's what that was. Still from San Francisco.
Speaker 1: So that was our mentality, is that get home. We
Speaker 1: were always trying to hit our head on the gold post,
Speaker 1: and he brought a mentality of how we practice, how
Speaker 1: we met the expectations, have fun. But the thing was
Speaker 1: I just remember he's always saying, okay, eighty four, get
Speaker 1: him going, because that was you know, in in training
Speaker 1: camp office according to Gary Kubiak, in my position coach,
Speaker 1: he's an eighty four. We need to strike up the
Speaker 1: band to day. So now I'm talking eight fo. Get
Speaker 1: somebody today. Somebody gonna get it God today. They don't
Speaker 1: want to see eighty four. Y'all don't want this, y'all
Speaker 1: don't want these kind of problems, and man, it would
Speaker 1: get it would get going because and that that's that's
Speaker 1: that's what it was about. You guys have been on
Speaker 1: team where you're really really close, and we were really
Speaker 1: really close. We we bowled, you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: we go go bowling together. We did almost everything together
Speaker 1: in training camp. You know, John, like I said, John
Speaker 1: would come up, guys will come Overen, just showty face.
Speaker 1: You don't understand how important chemistry is. Those are normally
Speaker 1: championship quality teams. At least you have the ability to
Speaker 1: win a championship those kind of teams. You know, I
Speaker 1: was fortunate enough to play on the team that one.
Speaker 1: I was on the team that I thought we had
Speaker 1: the talent, but we just didn't. We didn't vibe like
Speaker 1: our chemistry wasn't like that. So I tell people all time,
Speaker 1: it's more people, Oh, chemistry, that's a class that you're
Speaker 1: taking high school in college. No it's not not no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you can't. You guys gotta believe, sincerely believe that that
Speaker 1: guy has my best interests and he got to know
Speaker 1: that I have his best interests and the common goal,
Speaker 1: like and I tell you know, when I talked to
Speaker 1: young guys, said, look, whatever you want to do, I
Speaker 1: got no problem with that. If you want to be
Speaker 1: go to the Pro Bowl, you want to be all this,
Speaker 1: or you want to be m v P, be that,
Speaker 1: but not a the expense of the team. Yeah, not
Speaker 1: because if you want to be that, I know you're
Speaker 1: gonna put the time, and I know you're gonna put
Speaker 1: the effort in, You're gonna put the training in, you
Speaker 1: will put the studying in. But not at the expense
Speaker 1: of the team. And that's maybe what I butted here
Speaker 1: with guys. What I know. All they cared all yeah,
Speaker 1: all they cared about with staff. They cared nothing about
Speaker 1: the team. That that rubbed me the wrong way. Don't
Speaker 1: I don't want to part. I don't know. Talk to
Speaker 1: us a little bit about your impact on the game
Speaker 1: that I think still exists today because you were the
Speaker 1: flies must I mean outside of your game, you were
Speaker 1: flying before flying was flying sports with the glasses you
Speaker 1: had the motherfucking Jerry Curl dripped like my pops had.
Speaker 1: Look wet but it was dry, but it was dry.
Speaker 1: Put off the wet look but the dry but it
Speaker 1: was drying was getting next product called next. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: tell y'all something that I never told no about it.
Speaker 1: Then this this is the person I love you. You
Speaker 1: remember the head mand that I used to go around
Speaker 1: the neck. It wasn't intended to be war rounding it was.
Speaker 1: It was no no. I used to wear it on
Speaker 1: the head like y'all do the NBA because the girls juice.
Speaker 1: I'm not lying, and then put out put the helmet
Speaker 1: on and mess around and slipped down to the neck
Speaker 1: and it just became fashionable. Let me just roll with
Speaker 1: That's how that happened. I'm not lying. That's how That's
Speaker 1: how the hair very was more running, nick, I never
Speaker 1: told nobody else that in my last y'are the first
Speaker 1: one to getting that truth. My dad, my dad had
Speaker 1: a dripper. My dad used to have the tale around
Speaker 1: his neck so the ship didn't get on his clothes.
Speaker 1: So should I That's what I thought, Yeah, a little drift,
Speaker 1: no dog, no dog. I was offended when Coming to
Speaker 1: America came out and they were sitting there ears on
Speaker 1: the couch man's I was offended by that. Man. I
Speaker 1: was offended by that movie. I really was. Anybody way
Speaker 1: the colonel talking about you. I'm a Florida point man.
Speaker 1: And you know we we have swag. We haven't talking
Speaker 1: to y'all, you know, and but the but the lot
Speaker 1: of it, oh man, And y'all ain't gonna believe this
Speaker 1: when I tell you, But it's the one truth. I
Speaker 1: never talked drunk on the field, man. I never spoke
Speaker 1: to my opponents. I never telling anybody ever played, never dog.
Speaker 1: I spent games to the medium. But I had the
Speaker 1: mantra off I talked drunk caller and I never did.
Speaker 1: So where is it coming? Is? That's not true about
Speaker 1: you happening out the limo, running the fold where the folks.
Speaker 1: It's always it's always a little true to every life.
Speaker 1: That it was a literal I did. I did. I
Speaker 1: did catch the rabbit that day. I ran my butt off,
Speaker 1: But I didn't leave in the come to rapid. I
Speaker 1: ain't leaving the limo that day. I went. I did
Speaker 1: what everybody else did. It was normal. But I left
Speaker 1: right out that ram because it was what. Am I
Speaker 1: gonna lay there and put two twenty five and do that.
Speaker 1: I ain't nobody laying across my arms and no games
Speaker 1: bench press, and I ain't no hide jump. I'm not
Speaker 1: hie jumping for I ain't gotta high jumping no game.
Speaker 1: So I wasn't doing none of the foolish stuff at
Speaker 1: the comeback. I just wanted to run my part because
Speaker 1: I was the number one coming out in my position.
Speaker 1: So why would I risk at a chance that they
Speaker 1: had nothing to prove of no comback. I just wanted
Speaker 1: there to put it in work. No, I actually I
Speaker 1: want to sue because I went for business. I went enough.
Speaker 1: I want enough, I want enough, suit and boot it
Speaker 1: because I went for business. And I remember when I
Speaker 1: was in the big room with all the players. Dude,
Speaker 1: somebody from the league came over to me. He said,
Speaker 1: excuse me, sir, there are no agents, a lot of
Speaker 1: inside and I said, I'm gonna player. You played for
Speaker 1: both of our favorite teams. I think, did you win
Speaker 1: a championship with Dallas? Yeah? With the Niners. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: want one with the forty nine. And then to let
Speaker 1: them know the jack is a Dallas fan, I'm a
Speaker 1: Niner fan. What was it like playing in those times?
Speaker 1: You played with too great I mean Aikman, Emmett, Michael Irvin,
Speaker 1: and you went over with Steve and Jerry John talked
Speaker 1: to us, Well, my finnest place to ever played was Atlanta.
Speaker 1: That was home. You know, when somebody draft you, that's
Speaker 1: that's your home, that's your that's your blood. Man, Like
Speaker 1: Atlanta drafted me. So I'm forever in debt. And I
Speaker 1: loved Atlanta. But they wasn't. Uh, they didn't have the
Speaker 1: expectation of winning. And I was a winner and I
Speaker 1: wanted to win. So when I was a free agent,
Speaker 1: they ain't even offer me. Man, they just let it
Speaker 1: ride out. So I ended up I was getting ready
Speaker 1: to go to mine because I went on a little
Speaker 1: tour just like a little bit and tool. Everybody was
Speaker 1: trying to put it to see who's gonna get primed,
Speaker 1: and uh, I can remember getting ready to go to
Speaker 1: the Dolphins. I even had Dolphins cleats made like like
Speaker 1: Nike had made my Dolphins c and they said, where
Speaker 1: you going? Is that what I'm going over to? Man,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do the dog one thing. I would have
Speaker 1: met with Eddie de barnlow man and he said you
Speaker 1: want to do this? I said, yeah, yeah, I want
Speaker 1: to do it. So we even had a handshake agreement.
Speaker 1: I got on the plane and went back before I landed.
Speaker 1: Before I landed, I think bet so I hit the
Speaker 1: dolphins about three yards passed. So they was blowing my
Speaker 1: phone up. Now they want to do the deal. Now
Speaker 1: they want to come up with the money. But I
Speaker 1: was always been a man of my word. If I
Speaker 1: said it's gonna be that, so I had already gave
Speaker 1: Eddie Baro my word. So I went to San Francisco, man,
Speaker 1: and I remember the first that practice going in there,
Speaker 1: me with the head coaches, like we have no individuals
Speaker 1: on the team. You know, you got to coincide with
Speaker 1: what everybody else done. Like it kind of offended me
Speaker 1: because if you have you haven't done your homework, you
Speaker 1: would expect to get prime. And I introduce you to
Speaker 1: deal on I'm trying to show you who I really at.
Speaker 1: Your private just comes out on Sundays. Man, that's just
Speaker 1: my marketing. That's just that's just what I did to
Speaker 1: get my paper. So man, I go out on the
Speaker 1: practice field. Jay got on red tights, Rickard war has
Speaker 1: got a black taxes on a kid, and that I said, Well,
Speaker 1: I thought we was a team. I thought we were
Speaker 1: a team. I thought everybody did the same thing. So
Speaker 1: they kind of wrought me the wrong way, man. But
Speaker 1: we put in some work that year and we won
Speaker 1: the super Bowl, and that was one of the best
Speaker 1: years individually I think I've ever had, and I love it.
Speaker 1: But I just was empty, man, I was empty. As
Speaker 1: we want the super Bowl, man, I would right home.
Speaker 1: First point out in the locker room, first one in
Speaker 1: the hotel room. Ain't even go out club, ain't even
Speaker 1: gonna kick it. I'm just sitting on managing my bed
Speaker 1: like dang. That ain't that Ain't what I thought it was.
Speaker 1: I knew right then I needed the challenge, man, So
Speaker 1: I needed a challenge. So then that's why that took
Speaker 1: me to Dallas. I wanted to go prove I could
Speaker 1: get you all there. Now I'm gonna go get you
Speaker 1: all back. Then. I wanted to prove that. Did you
Speaker 1: thank him for that, Jake, Man, I'm gonna thank him now.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, cause I've been adopting the cowboy fast
Speaker 1: as a baby. But people blow up to San Francisco.
Speaker 1: I think you played with somebody from my hometown named
Speaker 1: Tim mccayo. It was in Atlanta. In Atlanta, you played it,
Speaker 1: Yeah with Tim was crazy. Tim was a trip. Man,
Speaker 1: I remember a trip. I remember your man still. I
Speaker 1: remember man playing with his cat and we had a
Speaker 1: great Yeah. I think I had like seven picks. He
Speaker 1: made it. Hats man has six, and every time he
Speaker 1: picked it he brought. I used to say, Man, when
Speaker 1: he played black jack on the way, you win, should
Speaker 1: get twenty one. You get that ball to twenty one.
Speaker 1: A good things happened. Every time people gotta pick. They
Speaker 1: got at the twenty one and good things happened. He
Speaker 1: did pick it, run allay across the feeling pitch for
Speaker 1: the ball, and we house that thing. But Tim Man,
Speaker 1: I remember I was trying to blow him up so
Speaker 1: he could make the Pro Bowl with your boy. And
Speaker 1: we just on the ter ofview and that. They said,
Speaker 1: what's you like about Tim game? Tim's game? I said,
Speaker 1: what Tim does this? He does this? Tim does this?
Speaker 1: They said, well, Tim, what you like about prime game?
Speaker 1: He's like, well, he ain't better than me. Don't almost
Speaker 1: swum doing the interview. I'm not lying, man, I'm this
Speaker 1: dude flipped out on me. Man. I could not believe that. Man, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I ain't. I ain't ever met him. And I heard
Speaker 1: a lot of stories just like that about him. I know,
Speaker 1: I brothers and everybody, but he from my hometime. But
Speaker 1: I heard the same type of stories about it. Man. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: he had a little jellous spirit in the man with
Speaker 1: You don't know why, you know, it was all good,
Speaker 1: but that that's what was. It was a trip. Who
Speaker 1: was who was your favorite matchup? Who was the one man? Man?
Speaker 1: You know, Jerry, Jerry, right, Michael Irvin, all of them? Man,
Speaker 1: Because I was I was coming to see him. You know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't that it went back then. We we we
Speaker 1: went to see the main dog the dog on dog,
Speaker 1: the dogs on dog, like like it used to be
Speaker 1: back in the day of the NBA Dog the Dog. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like it now, like LaRod, I want to
Speaker 1: see you with Kauai. You know, I like, I like
Speaker 1: to see I want to see dog on dog. That's
Speaker 1: what you selling me on TV. I want to see that.
Speaker 1: And it was me and Jerry got down me and
Speaker 1: got that. Now they sending me dream that I don't
Speaker 1: get to see it. Yeah, they don't sell me the dream.
Speaker 1: I want to get Mike put in work with everybody. Okay,
Speaker 1: you were sitting the bulls, you were gonna see Mike,
Speaker 1: you was gonna see code. You know, you was gonna
Speaker 1: see the dogs, Dogs gonna dog. It's a little different
Speaker 1: game now, you know. I played, you know, fifteen years
Speaker 1: and had a had a contract for two more years,
Speaker 1: but I happened to luck up and when the championship
Speaker 1: will golden stating, I retired early because I wanted to
Speaker 1: spend more time with my kids. I felt like I
Speaker 1: was missing a lot of important times in their lives
Speaker 1: because I was in one city there and another. So
Speaker 1: talk to me about what retirements like, because that's to me,
Speaker 1: that's the best part, is being able to get up
Speaker 1: every day and be with your kids. See. I come
Speaker 1: from the broken background, so I've always wanted to have
Speaker 1: a structure, you know, household, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: as far as the wife, kids, growing up, being in
Speaker 1: your kids life, you know what I mean, because I
Speaker 1: didn't have that, um and I and you realize you're like, damn, man,
Speaker 1: I'm missing so much time. And thank god I had
Speaker 1: two girls first, you know what I mean, So I
Speaker 1: kind of got spoiled and and had my son last.
Speaker 1: So I get to see, you know, the first time
Speaker 1: you get to go to the party, you know, the
Speaker 1: first time, you know, he waking up screaming. Adam Jones,
Speaker 1: you know, so were Ryan were Ryan Foewelers together every day.
Speaker 1: So it's a venture just to be and watch and
Speaker 1: see the growth and see like, hey man, I wanted
Speaker 1: to was like that bad, so you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like the other day he set up a ball in
Speaker 1: the living room, the little tea ball thing, and it
Speaker 1: was it wasn't the tea ball, but it was a
Speaker 1: dodge ball smack boom buzz. Wanted to look glass. But
Speaker 1: you know it two years anything, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: But like it's amazing man, and and and that's probably
Speaker 1: the best feeling in the world, you know, besides running
Speaker 1: out of that tone, you know what I mean, and
Speaker 1: eager to see, like dam I want to see how
Speaker 1: good he could be, you know what I mean. That's
Speaker 1: moments you can't get it back, bro, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. That that's price, that's priceless moments. That's that's
Speaker 1: that's what you're doing. And for men like you said,
Speaker 1: we come from broken homes. You know, me and you
Speaker 1: broken come from broken homes. I I didn't have my
Speaker 1: father and obviously you know what I'm saying, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't have all my kids in the house, but
Speaker 1: just being uh, you know what I'm saying, having those
Speaker 1: experiences with him, you know what I'm saying, knowing that
Speaker 1: you didn't have them with your father, you know what.
Speaker 1: Saying that means a lot to me. So I understand
Speaker 1: totally where you're coming from. But beside, besides your kids,
Speaker 1: I don't know if any kids play sports, but you
Speaker 1: do camps, You do all kinds of stuff involving kids.
Speaker 1: Talk about that. Oh yeah, so um, I do all
Speaker 1: of well most of the camps because all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: under them and don this is my father like a
Speaker 1: father figure to me, or we just had him all,
Speaker 1: we just had him all. Whatever you want to say,
Speaker 1: like I bleed, breed, bleed and sleep whatever that man
Speaker 1: says right there. But he's a great person to me.
Speaker 1: He'd always been there for me, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: he was some most of the success that I've had
Speaker 1: in my lady career comes from what he's done from
Speaker 1: me and the jobs I've got, you know, the phone
Speaker 1: calls and relationship you know, because it was the time, know,
Speaker 1: like nobody wanted to take a chance on me Dion.
Speaker 1: I went with D. I stayed with D for like
Speaker 1: two months. He called Mike Zimber called Mike Zamber. I
Speaker 1: came here and worked out with the Bengals were Actually
Speaker 1: he called him the first time and called me. He's like, Yo,
Speaker 1: they want you to come right now if you want
Speaker 1: to work out, Like man, Bro, I've been out for
Speaker 1: a whole year. I ain't no shape to workout. He
Speaker 1: was like, Yo, you're gonna tell him you ain't gonna
Speaker 1: work out. So I was like, yeah, I go. So
Speaker 1: I came up to Cincinnati. Bro. It was twenty two degrees.
Speaker 1: Bro just had seven inches of snow. They shove have
Speaker 1: on the field. Office Like, come on, let's go with me.
Speaker 1: I'll never forget this was me. Uh the Jones kid,
Speaker 1: the wine receiver who came from the jag War was man.
Speaker 1: It was so called. I ain't even finished the workout,
Speaker 1: so I end up. I live. So so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: saying m Marvroman. He say, look, you got three weeks, man,
Speaker 1: We're gonna bring you back in three weeks. You better
Speaker 1: be ready in three weeks. So I wouldn't have worked
Speaker 1: out for three weeks. And that that started my story
Speaker 1: here back in two thousand nine. But if I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have had the relationship with with Dion, if if I
Speaker 1: wasn't taking the time to set up different things and
Speaker 1: treat people right, you never know who you're gonna need,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And and that's what I
Speaker 1: try to teach my kids, like you never know, like
Speaker 1: it can be that you would never you would never
Speaker 1: know who knows who know? You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like for instance, I was doing the wrestling right, so
Speaker 1: the lady, the lady who owned ten A was Dixie.
Speaker 1: So Dixie was best friends with Jerry Jones. That's how
Speaker 1: I got the Dallas She asked, I can't. I cannot
Speaker 1: make this up. She said, if you could choose one
Speaker 1: team who you wanted to play for? I said, the Cowboys.
Speaker 1: Swear to God, God strike me down right now. The
Speaker 1: next day, I had Jerry on the phone. He was like,
Speaker 1: so you really want to come here? Like yeah, now
Speaker 1: I was in Dallas like two months before anybody knew that.
Speaker 1: I don't even go into Dallas, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Always had in prospered Texas, man, like, so like every
Speaker 1: my life has been like because you know, I had
Speaker 1: up and down, like and I ain't shoying away from
Speaker 1: I like fighting, I've had this and that go on.
Speaker 1: But like the people that that I've treated and the
Speaker 1: people that I've met, I would say that I built
Speaker 1: relationship to it just because of how you treat people. Man. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know at that time, I have been suspended a
Speaker 1: whole year, you know what I mean? Like really I
Speaker 1: was thinking like do I really want to do this again?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Right? Is it word? Going
Speaker 1: through all that ship again? Yeah? We you know, we
Speaker 1: were similar, you know, you know with the broad ship
Speaker 1: with me. You know, I know I missed at least
Speaker 1: three solid All Star games just because I ran into
Speaker 1: the stands and punched the fan. They stopped looking at
Speaker 1: my play, just like they did you. It's not looking
Speaker 1: everything you've done. They stopped looking at your play. My Ricky. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was Ricky Ell the year. Well, I ain't made
Speaker 1: defense Ricky year, but I was Special Team with Guild year.
Speaker 1: My second year, I was second team All Pro. I
Speaker 1: had just was I was just buying the sign a
Speaker 1: sixty million dollar extension and then that's when I got
Speaker 1: into Trumpor and Vegas. Then so I get in Trump
Speaker 1: and Vegas and missed two of my prime years. I
Speaker 1: was twenty three, twenty four, twenty five when I went
Speaker 1: to Dallas, I think, but like I missed a lot
Speaker 1: of my prime like where when I was I could
Speaker 1: wake up in the morning and run FO to five
Speaker 1: with just like without scritching and not doing nothing. You
Speaker 1: know I'm saying. That's why I call him baby Dan.
Speaker 1: That's why I called him baby d Like like I said,
Speaker 1: I've been knowing I've been knowing him for a while,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. We know a lot of
Speaker 1: the same people. A lot of home was around the A.
Speaker 1: But I've been on I've been called I've been calling
Speaker 1: that baby deal. But like I said, we are very similar.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. We went we went through
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, but that that that's not who
Speaker 1: we are. You know what I'm saying, And it's it's good.
Speaker 1: That's one reason why I wanted to have you on
Speaker 1: the show. Just like I told you, you know what
Speaker 1: that Yeah, we came back involved in our later careers.
Speaker 1: Thought yeah, yeah, we were making probols at thirty two
Speaker 1: years old. Man, Yeah, yeah, yes, sir, yes, sir, don't stop.
Speaker 1: You're big and and and have been speaking and outspoken
Speaker 1: on mental health. And that was the one thing when
Speaker 1: I got a chance to talk to PG while he
Speaker 1: was in the bubble because he was dealing with some
Speaker 1: mental health and anxiety and depression and separation. How serious
Speaker 1: is this because as black men first and foremost, and
Speaker 1: as black athletes, it was looked down before before as
Speaker 1: almost a weakness to talk about issues you had. Obviously
Speaker 1: we're passed that and it's more talked about these days,
Speaker 1: But what is your take on it? Being someone that
Speaker 1: has suffered from it. There was a lot of guys,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, struggling in that bubble, and there's guys
Speaker 1: in NFL struggling right now, so you know, it's not
Speaker 1: a game. It is serious. But like that's why I
Speaker 1: talked about, you know, marijuana is because when I was
Speaker 1: playing for the Dolphins, that's when I realized something was
Speaker 1: going on, and marijuana was the thing that got me
Speaker 1: through that year. Like it is like that was the
Speaker 1: first time I was able to smile again and and
Speaker 1: feel again. And then you know, you get to the office.
Speaker 1: I got to the off season and I went to
Speaker 1: McClain hospital and I was there for three months in
Speaker 1: the outpatient programs diagnosed with borderline personality sort of. The
Speaker 1: best way to describe is like an emotional disorder, being
Speaker 1: able to self regulate your emotions. Right, long story short.
Speaker 1: I took dialectical behavior therapy, that's a group therapy. I
Speaker 1: took mentalization therapy. I took self assessment, you know, one
Speaker 1: on one with Dr Gunderson. I did a clinical evaluation,
Speaker 1: neurological evaluation, just to see what was going on in
Speaker 1: my mind. And I was put in this program and
Speaker 1: it changed my life. And there's so many of us
Speaker 1: that deal with this. Life is hard, you know, and
Speaker 1: if you don't have if you don't have a game
Speaker 1: plan around how you're gonna deal with stress, that stress
Speaker 1: can turn into uh mental health challenge, initial mental health
Speaker 1: issue for you. It may it may not be bipolar,
Speaker 1: it may not be borderline, it may not be anxiety,
Speaker 1: but if you don't correct these things, uh, then it
Speaker 1: can definitely hit you and hit you in a major way.
Speaker 1: So you know, even now, like now, we got people
Speaker 1: dealing with anxiety and depression for the very first time.
Speaker 1: So I just think that you know, for me, I
Speaker 1: appreciate it, Paul George saying it, you know, because there's
Speaker 1: a lot of athletes dealing with anxiety, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of athletes dealing with depression or understanding being comfortable with
Speaker 1: who they are in this big space. So now you've
Speaker 1: got the Kevin Loves of the world, you got the
Speaker 1: Dak Prescotts of the world really using their platforms and
Speaker 1: talk about and highlighted. We still talk about it wrong
Speaker 1: in the media. You saw what Skip Bayliss said after
Speaker 1: Dak Prescott came out. So you know, there's a there's
Speaker 1: a there's a long way to go, but I love,
Speaker 1: I love where where we're at right now. And once
Speaker 1: again lad by the athletes. So it used to be
Speaker 1: a taboo topic not to not to press too much
Speaker 1: in your personal life. Is this something that's ongoing or
Speaker 1: did you get it fixed when you win or is
Speaker 1: this a daily still a daily battle for you? Now
Speaker 1: it's interesting, you know, because there's so many ways it
Speaker 1: can present itself. You know, mental health could present itself
Speaker 1: in over three different ways, but just one diagnosis. So
Speaker 1: for me, going through that process really gave me the
Speaker 1: skills and tools I needed to self regulated. So you
Speaker 1: know I could be in a moment and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: with tools, with skills, do I have to regulate? You
Speaker 1: know what I mean? To manage this? Do I kind
Speaker 1: of make it better? You know? I wanted to stay
Speaker 1: the saying, don't make it worse? So what I do now?
Speaker 1: And I'll go back to my last years in football,
Speaker 1: So what I did in the football season, I had
Speaker 1: a game plan. I knew that was the most stressful
Speaker 1: time of the year for me. So every every week
Speaker 1: I was sitting down with the mental health practitioner before practice,
Speaker 1: I would jump in the float pod after practice, jumping
Speaker 1: the float pod, like I was very intentional daily in
Speaker 1: my mental fitness in the off season. In the off season,
Speaker 1: what I do is as needed. So I'll probably like
Speaker 1: once a month check in um with the mental health practitioner,
Speaker 1: or I might check in with a family member or
Speaker 1: friends just like yo, how you doing? He checked or
Speaker 1: he or she checking on me? And but part of
Speaker 1: my daily routine because I feel like you need to
Speaker 1: make deposits because something's going to happen, right Like who
Speaker 1: who would have known? We you know, this year would
Speaker 1: have turned out the way it is? Like where you
Speaker 1: did you have the deposits that to be able to
Speaker 1: be strong enough through this. So meditation is big for me.
Speaker 1: Um being able to recover, get aways, turn off at night,
Speaker 1: you know, shut my brain off is important for me.
Speaker 1: So those are things that I do every single day
Speaker 1: to make sure I'm making those deposits. So when those
Speaker 1: stressful moments come up, I'm good, I'm ready to go.
Speaker 1: I think the key you said if anyone takes what
Speaker 1: way the tools you need to handle the situation, because
Speaker 1: we're not we're not equipped with them. We we weren't
Speaker 1: raised with them. It wasn't something that was talked about.
Speaker 1: Showing emotion in our culture was a sign of weakness,
Speaker 1: no matter who you were. From a child to stop
Speaker 1: sucking crying to an adult, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So now that we're in a where in a space
Speaker 1: that we can comfortably talk about it, it's the tools,
Speaker 1: like you said, that you learned from handling, doing your counseling,
Speaker 1: that that we're allowed you to get through the process.
Speaker 1: And not enough of us have that too. I was fortunate,
Speaker 1: I mean I may and I came from a you know,
Speaker 1: functioning drug addicts. My parents were functioning drug adics. Very
Speaker 1: abusive household. So I found marijuana at fourteen and smoked
Speaker 1: it from fourteen to this day, and that was really
Speaker 1: At the time, I didn't know what it was. I
Speaker 1: just knew it was an escape for me. And as
Speaker 1: I got older, I realized, Okay, damn, I can focus,
Speaker 1: I can sleep better. You know, a lot of different
Speaker 1: things are coming from this. So that's why I was
Speaker 1: so glad when the medical research finally caught up, because
Speaker 1: I could have said everything it made me do until
Speaker 1: I was blue in the face, but until there was
Speaker 1: medical backup, medical research saying okay, well it does a
Speaker 1: B and C just like these guys are saying it
Speaker 1: was doing. It wasn't doing any good. But I think
Speaker 1: if I didn't have cannabis, no bullshit, who knows what
Speaker 1: kind of deepened I would have went off of. Because
Speaker 1: you know, my life off the court was very well document.
Speaker 1: I was in a lot of ship off the court.
Speaker 1: But you know, to be able to be on TMZ
Speaker 1: and all these blows and then have to play on
Speaker 1: ESPN that night, that focus is essential, you know, no
Speaker 1: matter what the fun is going on in your life,
Speaker 1: for that two hours, two and a half hours where
Speaker 1: it's on the football field, the basketball field, there's no
Speaker 1: excuses and and my outlet is always being cannabis. So
Speaker 1: I'm very thankful now that, like I said, the medical
Speaker 1: research is catching up because I know a lot of
Speaker 1: these athletes, like you said, whether you use it or not,
Speaker 1: we need some sort of tools to deal with this
Speaker 1: ship because people think we're invincible because we have money.
Speaker 1: But that's the furthest thing from the truth. Yes, So
Speaker 1: is that is that why you're so passionate and investing
Speaker 1: in this space? Yeah? Yeah, because I believe in it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I'll be the first one
Speaker 1: I tell you I enjoy getting high, like the way
Speaker 1: it feels, but I'm more on the educational like I'm
Speaker 1: not a snoop, I'm not a rapper. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: okay to kind of glorify in that aspect, but I'm
Speaker 1: coming from an aspect of a former player, a father,
Speaker 1: and someone who coaches my kids right now, So I'm
Speaker 1: coming more on the medical side and understanding trying to
Speaker 1: remove the word high and explain that the medical benefits
Speaker 1: of it in the way it makes me feel. And
Speaker 1: I think that's where we're finally starting to make headway
Speaker 1: because whether they like it or not, whether they keep
Speaker 1: find us a lot a lot of professional athletes use
Speaker 1: it and we shouldn't be penalized for it. As a receiver. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, you get teed off on. People always get
Speaker 1: to hit you. I remember I used to love the
Speaker 1: crack back, the peel back block. Do you have one
Speaker 1: particular peel back or crackback where you just suck somebody up? Man,
Speaker 1: I got one to tell you. It was absolute fail. Man,
Speaker 1: I ain't. I got something that I really like, you know,
Speaker 1: just people out, you know, but I got one where
Speaker 1: as an absolute fail, I'll tell you. But it's actually
Speaker 1: we're playing Chicago at Chicago and this is my rookie
Speaker 1: year and I had to go in and crack um
Speaker 1: Lance Bridge, I'm just trying to Chicago there. He's from
Speaker 1: US so we played in high school at the same time.
Speaker 1: He's from out my way. Okay, you know what you know,
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's a man boy, somebody you don't
Speaker 1: want to have to hit. Man. He saw me and
Speaker 1: he like, I'm coming down in motion, you know, my
Speaker 1: little slopan and my little short motion, you know, like
Speaker 1: I'm about to run my round I'm trying not to
Speaker 1: look at him, but I'm peeking on the inside of
Speaker 1: my eye and I was trying to die. Damn. I
Speaker 1: hope he don't see me. I hope you don't see.
Speaker 1: Right before the balls snap, he looked me up, and
Speaker 1: he looked right at me, and he's just writing rapping
Speaker 1: the ball snap. He just ran right out and he
Speaker 1: diedose to play. He just ran around me, ran through me,
Speaker 1: maybe too, like I get tossed out on Monday. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like I just seen one. Like an old highlight
Speaker 1: tried to crack back on ray Lewis and he blinds
Speaker 1: out of ray Lewis, but still he was the one
Speaker 1: that still got sucked up. Yeah, bloody ray Lois. That's
Speaker 1: another one. You don't you come into the NFL nearly
Speaker 1: two thirty nine running a four three eight at six four?
Speaker 1: What the hell is that? I mean, it's I just
Speaker 1: love hearing it because, like I said, football is my
Speaker 1: first spart I love football to death. Uh you know,
Speaker 1: I let the nation in touchdowns. I'm six seven and
Speaker 1: I ran a four three nine my senior year. So
Speaker 1: like you were someone when I saw coming to the the league,
Speaker 1: I wish you to think like, man, if I would
Speaker 1: have stuck to it, you know what would have happened,
Speaker 1: Like I used to really watch you like damn, Like
Speaker 1: I would see the hit you take, like damn, my
Speaker 1: three inches arling, they would have really fucked me up
Speaker 1: on that one. Or just the way you were able
Speaker 1: to physically dominate dudes because we had a similar body style.
Speaker 1: So it was just so dope watching you do what
Speaker 1: you did. And I wish, like I said in the opening,
Speaker 1: that you had a chance to win more, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, and getting in playing playoff games and
Speaker 1: get a chance to really play for a ring, and
Speaker 1: the fact that you didn't, how tough did that way
Speaker 1: on you, you know, getting later in your career. I
Speaker 1: think the main reason I decide understand destroy it it
Speaker 1: was because I felt, I legitimately felt we had a
Speaker 1: chance to win that ring. I mean, we had an
Speaker 1: offense that was putting up four to five yards a
Speaker 1: year on offense, and we had a defensive line I know,
Speaker 1: I mean we had the secretary too, but we had
Speaker 1: the defensive line that featured in Dominican Sue Nick Fairley,
Speaker 1: a young really young c. J. Moseley, like a mean
Speaker 1: defensive line like like old lines, quarterbacks are scared to
Speaker 1: come play you. That's all. That's what you need to
Speaker 1: win the Super Bowl. You need you need that good
Speaker 1: D line, You need a defense that can hold up,
Speaker 1: and you got an offense that can score at will.
Speaker 1: You know, we had the makings and then when everything
Speaker 1: got blown up there towards the end, is really rebuild
Speaker 1: a mode. That's it's a wrap from Nick. Yeah, that's tough.
Speaker 1: Early on you. Uh you did something that you know
Speaker 1: I like to see. And because I'm always pro player
Speaker 1: and get you, you held out as a rookie to
Speaker 1: sign a better deal. How how did that end up unfolding? Oh? Man,
Speaker 1: I vaguely even remember that. Uh what I do remember
Speaker 1: is that, you know, I just took the advice of
Speaker 1: my of my Asian bus cook at the time, and
Speaker 1: he was just he was just telling me, you know,
Speaker 1: this is this isn't the deal that we need to sign,
Speaker 1: you know, and I don't have the experience at the time.
Speaker 1: You know, That's why we brought him on board. You know.
Speaker 1: You know it's really just them me um not not
Speaker 1: accepting anything less than what I was worth. And that's
Speaker 1: that's one thing I don't tell any player right now. Man,
Speaker 1: you know you got a team by the balls, like
Speaker 1: keep them, you know, take advantage that because once they
Speaker 1: got the other way around, you believe they're gonna exercise
Speaker 1: on you. So you win Defensive Rookie of the Year
Speaker 1: Pro Bowl soon after all Pro playing sixteen years, there's
Speaker 1: I guess it's more in the NBA now, is that
Speaker 1: this management and we kind of you know, we rest
Speaker 1: and all this stuff. But for you to consistently play
Speaker 1: sixteen games every season in such a physical sport, I mean,
Speaker 1: we just gotta commend you for that, man, because that
Speaker 1: that ship is tough to do. You know, we play basketball,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit physical. But to be out there
Speaker 1: every single day and suit up as a football player, man,
Speaker 1: that that that that that's that's tough to do. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's funny you say that because you know,
Speaker 1: I sit back I watched games now, or if I'm
Speaker 1: at a game and I'm on the sideline and you know,
Speaker 1: guys are out there giving it everything they've gotten. All
Speaker 1: of a sudden, there's a tackle that's near you, and
Speaker 1: I can I can hear the contact. I see the
Speaker 1: physicalness of the game and I sit there and I
Speaker 1: think to myself, Man, how in the hell did you
Speaker 1: do this for so long? You know, getting up every week. Man,
Speaker 1: you know, practice and you know playing on Sundays and
Speaker 1: sometimes you know, you you know, you get up on
Speaker 1: Sunday morning, you're still feeling last Sunday, you know, um
Speaker 1: and the one thing that that gets you through, you know,
Speaker 1: going back to the fans and walking out into the
Speaker 1: walking out into the stadium. Like once you get out
Speaker 1: there into that stadium, man, sometimes that energy from the
Speaker 1: crowd hits you, man, and that's you That's what you need,
Speaker 1: you know. Otherwise, man, you'll be trying to stay back
Speaker 1: in the in the hotel room and sleep it off.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's it's a tough game, man, but
Speaker 1: you know what, when you love it, you know, and
Speaker 1: you you you're fighting for a chance to win the championship. Man,
Speaker 1: you'll run through a wall. Your guys bodies are really
Speaker 1: beat up and like you just said, without that adrenalin sometimes,
Speaker 1: ship you don't know where you would be. So what
Speaker 1: is your routine? So if you play on Sunday, walk
Speaker 1: us through the week leading up to the following Sunday,
Speaker 1: games over. You know, now it's on to the next opponent.
Speaker 1: But what you're doing is on that Monday, you're going
Speaker 1: and you'll watch film of the game you just played,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of go over, um. You know, any
Speaker 1: corrections that that the coaches have seen, you know, they'll
Speaker 1: give you a grade, you know, as far as how
Speaker 1: you perform, whether or not you missed any assignment. So
Speaker 1: you might have some if you got a bunch of
Speaker 1: red checkmarks on it's like school, your ads had a
Speaker 1: bad day. Um. So then you know, after that, either
Speaker 1: either before or after that, you know, you get your
Speaker 1: workout in, you know, you know, trying to you know,
Speaker 1: just trying to work through everything man and keep yourself mobile.
Speaker 1: Usually Tuesdays or your days off, so between Monday and Tuesday,
Speaker 1: you're trying to figure out, you know, when you're gonna
Speaker 1: try to get your massage in and all that stuff man,
Speaker 1: and try to you know, work some of that stuff out. Wednesdays,
Speaker 1: Wednesdays and Thursdays are your long practice. Usually Wednesdays are
Speaker 1: you know, first and you go over first and second down. Um,
Speaker 1: so that that day is gonna be long. You're gonna
Speaker 1: get out of there maybe five you know five thirty
Speaker 1: or so, Um, Thursday is gonna kind of be the
Speaker 1: same thing. You're gonna go over your third down and
Speaker 1: then you know kind of marry some some some red
Speaker 1: zone which will have on Friday, and then some still
Speaker 1: some first and second down stuff, but it's mainly you know,
Speaker 1: you focus on that third down and trying to get
Speaker 1: off the football field. So that's gonna be another long
Speaker 1: day five five thirty. Then Friday rolls around. Uh, Friday,
Speaker 1: you're gonna go over red zone. You know, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be more of a walk through tempo for portions of it,
Speaker 1: and then you'll get into uh really some some game
Speaker 1: management type stuff. Uh So, but it's a shorter day.
Speaker 1: You know, you probably get out of there. You know,
Speaker 1: everything will be done probably one thirty two o'clock on Saturday.
Speaker 1: You're gonna walk through in the morning, you know, meet
Speaker 1: you know, watching films. It's gonna be pretty light. And
Speaker 1: then uh uh Saturday night you meet up at the
Speaker 1: hotel and you also you go through your individual meetings,
Speaker 1: uh team meeting, you know, uh pregame or nightly before
Speaker 1: the game, meal or whatnot. Curfew at eleven. Then man,
Speaker 1: you're back at it again on Sunday, Ready to roll.
Speaker 1: Let me touch on that that that curfew because you know,
Speaker 1: as basketball players, we didn't have the I guess maybe
Speaker 1: the structure from a standpoint, and you guys are really
Speaker 1: in there all day. When you go to a facility,
Speaker 1: you in there in the morning and like you said,
Speaker 1: five thirty, you know, like a real work. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: going there. We get our extra shots, we watch film,
Speaker 1: we get stretched, we left, we do all that ship,
Speaker 1: we practice, we're still out of there and no more
Speaker 1: than three hours sometimes with Nellie, we mother be at
Speaker 1: the end and out that bitch in forty five minutes sometimes.
Speaker 1: But to have that kind of like curfew, And did
Speaker 1: did you guys have roommates? It was that only for
Speaker 1: the players that worked like superstars. How did that ship work?
Speaker 1: Some guys like the room on the road? Um, I
Speaker 1: had my own room when you first came in, like rookie,
Speaker 1: I think rookies second year of players, you had to
Speaker 1: have a roommate. But if you if you older in
Speaker 1: the game, you stay in the room by yourself. So yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine having no ruck, couldn't getting nothing off
Speaker 1: on the road right now? I couldn't have done that
Speaker 1: speaking to y'all, man, I know, I know y'all don't
Speaker 1: have curfew. I lived in Atlanta for about eight years. Man.
Speaker 1: I remember, Man, so you've seen Jack. I've seen you've
Speaker 1: seen Jack a few times. I've seen him a few times, man,
Speaker 1: And uh, I remember being out one night. Man, it's
Speaker 1: it's five six in the morning. Man, I see my man, hey, hey,
Speaker 1: eyes out there and you know, at the club, man,
Speaker 1: and like, damn, this man, how does he he got
Speaker 1: a game tomorrow? Man? Man, Hey, I got out there
Speaker 1: and gave them people forty five points. Man, I said, she, Well,
Speaker 1: you know what he's doing. He knows what he's doing.
Speaker 1: Some of us can do it. On the flip side
Speaker 1: with us, you know, that whole Warrior team, we would
Speaker 1: be out till the sun came up sometimes and still
Speaker 1: have a game that night, and still went hard the
Speaker 1: whole night. Like I said, it was just so much
Speaker 1: different to where, Like I said, the strug, not that
Speaker 1: we were we were actually why, but I'm saying as
Speaker 1: far as the structure and the rules and the regulations,
Speaker 1: we didn't have that kind of ship. You know. Once
Speaker 1: we got to the league, it was like like you say,
Speaker 1: like you're real, like you really so everything you on
Speaker 1: your own, doing whatever you gotta do. And some people
Speaker 1: can handle in some game right right and and to really,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that freedom, that leash that they
Speaker 1: give you some of the fucker's hanging themselves with, because
Speaker 1: like you said, if you can't you out here doing
Speaker 1: whatever and you're not performing on Sunday or when the
Speaker 1: ball goes up at seven thirty, for us, you hanging yourself,
Speaker 1: no doubt about it. Talked about you was able to
Speaker 1: turn that that that leash into a motherfucking gold change. Jack,
Speaker 1: You didn't, So what what was it like? You as
Speaker 1: a player evolving into the one of the best defensive
Speaker 1: players of the the game, your team evolving into a
Speaker 1: contender under John Gruten. Yeah, man, it's it's really to me,
Speaker 1: it's about experience. You know. The more you play, um,
Speaker 1: I think, the better you get, the more understanding of
Speaker 1: the game, the more time you're in certain situations, the
Speaker 1: better you get, the more times you see things, the
Speaker 1: better you get. Um. So I just you know, as
Speaker 1: a player, you know, being able to come in as
Speaker 1: a rookie and start and play sixteen games, I felt
Speaker 1: like I feel like for any player, man, from your
Speaker 1: first year to your second year, it should be your
Speaker 1: biggest your biggest jump if you're able to play, you know,
Speaker 1: sixteen games. So I was thrown into the fire, you know,
Speaker 1: in the NFL, man, and which was great for me
Speaker 1: because I wanted to be out there anyway. But we
Speaker 1: we we built the team, man Grouten and uh you
Speaker 1: know our gym and everything. They started building, building that contender,
Speaker 1: you know, bringing in some pieces, you know and putting
Speaker 1: them in the right places. You know. We were a
Speaker 1: veteran team, you know that. So we had Tim Brown
Speaker 1: who was there when I already got there. Then Jerry
Speaker 1: Rice came outside linebacker named William Thomas, and you know
Speaker 1: Eric Allen was there. So we had some veteran guys
Speaker 1: and then we added some pieces man that you know,
Speaker 1: got us to being a contender in the league. And
Speaker 1: so you know I was around some some guys man,
Speaker 1: like some real lives, you know, legends man, Eric Turner,
Speaker 1: Eric Allen, you know. Then rich Ganning came in and
Speaker 1: so I was, I was Jerry right, man, come on, man,
Speaker 1: Charlie Garner, my boy, Charlie Man. So I as yeah, man,
Speaker 1: so I had some real that has some real dudes.
Speaker 1: I felt like I couldn't help but get better. What
Speaker 1: was it like to be a three sport varsity athlete?
Speaker 1: A you're talking to me or him? Definitely him, because
Speaker 1: I was too. Were you three? Football? Basketball? Baseball? Basketball?
Speaker 1: This is my first time here in the baseball ship.
Speaker 1: Basically asked a couple of people in here that I knew.
Speaker 1: I knew you was, you know center field football? Basketball? Yeah? Ball,
Speaker 1: just travel basketball picked up? So I stopped playing, so
Speaker 1: not I know what I call you played? Bro? Call
Speaker 1: you guys. You was calling it baseball to know and
Speaker 1: now it's not racial. Understand understood, it's not racial America.
Speaker 1: Don't find him? Uh nah, bro? It was cool, like
Speaker 1: in all honesty, sports or what keep me going? You know,
Speaker 1: sports are just that's what energizes me. I was I
Speaker 1: was good enough at basketball. I wasn't great. I was
Speaker 1: really good at track and discus. I was really it's
Speaker 1: a technical thing. I was really good at track. Um,
Speaker 1: but football I was so raw. I knew I could
Speaker 1: be good, and I was. I was never the biggest,
Speaker 1: never the smartest, but I was like, I'm either gonna
Speaker 1: be the biggest, the fastest, excuse me, or I'll be
Speaker 1: the smartest. And I was never the biggest of the fastest,
Speaker 1: but I was like, Okay, people don't realize and y'all
Speaker 1: get this. Man, sports, you gotta be smart. It's like
Speaker 1: people don't you have about ninety plays on the football
Speaker 1: field during the game, you take about thirty of the
Speaker 1: men and adjustments based on a receiver motioning and moving,
Speaker 1: especially as a middle linebacker. You have to be brilliant.
Speaker 1: But like, people don't get it. People don't respect athletes
Speaker 1: intellectual and intellectually enough. You gotta be brilliant playing football
Speaker 1: in Texas, was there any chance that you would go
Speaker 1: somewhere else for college? Brought? Not a chance? But never
Speaker 1: never never Texas. We were nice, but remember we had
Speaker 1: Vince Young was oh five. I went to Texas and
Speaker 1: oh eight, So there was no no I mean you
Speaker 1: go you you play football in Texas to go to Texas?
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like, you don't even fix
Speaker 1: your lips to think about going. And I'm not even
Speaker 1: one of those like crazy die hard alums. I'm just
Speaker 1: like Texas Texas. There was a standard talk to us
Speaker 1: about that experience. Actually being a long home though first
Speaker 1: two years went crazy. We was twenty four and one
Speaker 1: the first two years, I didn't lose a game. Quarterback,
Speaker 1: two time Hivesman finalists, winning his college football quarterback when
Speaker 1: he retired. When he left college, we went, we went.
Speaker 1: We lost one game my first year, and then we
Speaker 1: ran the table my second year till we got to
Speaker 1: the National championship and lost Obama. Funny enough, we were
Speaker 1: Obama's beginning of their streak gonna beat us in the
Speaker 1: National Championship, mark Ingram Julio Jones and they go on
Speaker 1: to win seven of the last god knows how many.
Speaker 1: But m bro, when you're winning at Texas, I mean,
Speaker 1: don't get me started. Ain't nothing like nothing. So what
Speaker 1: you talk to me about this though on some other ship,
Speaker 1: being in such a strict household and then kind of
Speaker 1: gaining some sort of freedom, and you're a young man
Speaker 1: in Texas, now you're on a winning football team. What's
Speaker 1: that like to you? Because you were so confined in
Speaker 1: one space and now you're somewhat free and you're on
Speaker 1: top of the world. Man, that's good, bro. They say
Speaker 1: when you go to college, at least when you were
Speaker 1: the Austin six Street. It's gonna make or break you.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like, when you now you're
Speaker 1: away from home, it's either gonna make or break you.
Speaker 1: I don't think it broke me, you know, it was
Speaker 1: cool being away from home. The thing about it, though,
Speaker 1: I have my big brother there. He's one year older
Speaker 1: than me, and so I think he may all the
Speaker 1: mistakes for me, and he knew just how far I
Speaker 1: could go before reeling me back in. And the big
Speaker 1: thing was just like, don't make the pivotal mistake. You know,
Speaker 1: have fun, live your best life, but keep your grades up,
Speaker 1: don't get suspended, don't do nothing wild and like for really,
Speaker 1: if if you're Nigerian, it's like, don't embarrass your last name. Right,
Speaker 1: there's a saying you'll probably heard with Nigerian's n John
Speaker 1: know that caddy last, nigiohn No that caddy last. Nigerians
Speaker 1: don't carry last, like you can't finish the last and
Speaker 1: all that is and kind of Nigerian culture is like
Speaker 1: you gotta be the best. And so I didn't really
Speaker 1: have that luxury of just doing whatever because it's like
Speaker 1: you gotta be the best at whatever you do. Plus
Speaker 1: my freaking brother was there. He was a genius. He
Speaker 1: was an academic All American. He was an athletic All American.
Speaker 1: So I was like, oh god, um, so yeah, that
Speaker 1: was That was college man. What's the most memorable moment
Speaker 1: on the field, God, that's a question. My senior year
Speaker 1: at Missouri. This is how I ended up a third
Speaker 1: team All American senior at missour Um. Their field was terrible.
Speaker 1: Bro our captain running back towards M C L A
Speaker 1: C L pcl earlier in the game, star linebacker next
Speaker 1: to me, Keenan Robinson. He got drafted to Washington in
Speaker 1: the fourth round. He broke his thumb, and he broke
Speaker 1: his thumb, but it broke out of the glove. Like
Speaker 1: the thumb was no longer in the glove. And that's
Speaker 1: my dog, Like Keena was my dog. I was in
Speaker 1: his wedding all that. So star linebacker Tears was holding
Speaker 1: up Keenan's thumb is out of his glove. He runs
Speaker 1: off the field during the play. He's like, reff, my thumb,
Speaker 1: my thumb. He runs off the field during the play.
Speaker 1: I sit there to ref doesn't stop the game. Um
Speaker 1: they throw a now screen, I run over to the
Speaker 1: now screen. I forced the fumble. I see my team recovery.
Speaker 1: I don't even wait for the ref to singal recovery,
Speaker 1: and I just run off to the sideline to check
Speaker 1: on my dog. That was the most memorable, Like he
Speaker 1: got hurt. Ref didn't stop to play. They throw a bubble.
Speaker 1: I forced a fumble, don't even care about the ball.
Speaker 1: I see my other little young bro recovered, and I
Speaker 1: just from like, hey, what happened to keenan Um? That
Speaker 1: was wild? Yeah, that was the most valuable take away
Speaker 1: from your four years as a long horn. You have
Speaker 1: to be consistently good to be great. Mm hmm. You
Speaker 1: gotta be consistently good to be Everybody wants to be great.
Speaker 1: But what's being great look like? Being great looks like
Speaker 1: being consistently good? You turn on it, You turn on
Speaker 1: a tube every day, and if you watch, speak for
Speaker 1: yourself like, oh he's good the next day, Oh he's good,
Speaker 1: the next Oh he's kind of good, the next always
Speaker 1: kind of good. All of a sudden, it's like, you
Speaker 1: know what, because might be great. You know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: you gotta be consistently good to be great. Stack. When
Speaker 1: I was playing ball. I knew the normal players would
Speaker 1: come to me, but I would try to find one
Speaker 1: to two highlight plays a game. Right if they line
Speaker 1: up in a certain offset formation, I know exactly what
Speaker 1: they're gonna do. I'm gonna make the big play tax
Speaker 1: for loss sacks, something like that. And now I take
Speaker 1: the same thing on TV every block, every conversation. I
Speaker 1: know it's gonna be I but you gotta find the
Speaker 1: one quotable sound bite that makes somebody like you said
Speaker 1: stop twice and say, hey, you'll make sure go run
Speaker 1: that back. Um, you gotta be consistently good to be great.
Speaker 1: You said something off off camera now since you talked about,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of finding your magic um in this
Speaker 1: space now that I thought was really interesting because you know,
Speaker 1: although you know our job is to talk sports, for
Speaker 1: the most part, not everyone is interested in sports, so
Speaker 1: you try to find well, expo, I don't want to
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take your words from you, but explain that, Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: not everybody cares about sports, but everybody cares about life,
Speaker 1: and so I really just use sports as a masquerade
Speaker 1: to get to the root of life because everybody wants
Speaker 1: to talk life. So sports to me is just a
Speaker 1: It's an avenue to get to life, because life is
Speaker 1: a vehicle there it is. It's a vehicle to get
Speaker 1: to life. Everybody cares about life. Not everybody cares about
Speaker 1: your favorite team. You don't like that. I like that.
Speaker 1: So drafted sixth rail and two thousand and twelve. And
Speaker 1: obviously I caught what you said earlier in the interview.
Speaker 1: It was calculated. You had kind of taken your calculations
Speaker 1: and understanding who you were as a football player. You
Speaker 1: have that for your run, three, your for your run
Speaker 1: um and was ready for what was next. But in
Speaker 1: that for your run, what stood out to you the most? Bro?
Speaker 1: When I got traded, Because when you had traded you,
Speaker 1: you just think it's a video game. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like, Oh, you trade people on video game.
Speaker 1: Not a big deal. I'm in Cleveland my first year.
Speaker 1: They drafted me and I get the athletic trainer comes
Speaker 1: in and it gives me like the handshake pad on
Speaker 1: the bag. I'm like, hell like that. It's been nice
Speaker 1: knowing you. Y'all know that I wasn't the good old
Speaker 1: I had to the to the general manager, head coach's
Speaker 1: office and they're like, hey, I just want to notify
Speaker 1: you you've been traded to the Philadelphia Eagles. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to hide my Jubia League because I'm like, get me
Speaker 1: the hell out of Cleveland. Like we're about to go
Speaker 1: to Philly. They got Lashawn McCoy out there, Mike Vic
Speaker 1: out there, like some real stars. Um. Craziest thing though,
Speaker 1: like your flights in three hours? I left, bro When
Speaker 1: you get traded, y'all, I don't know if you was
Speaker 1: traded when you get traded flights in three hours. I
Speaker 1: went to Philly. I didn't go back to Cleveland for
Speaker 1: five years. Somebody packed up my stuff, they moved it.
Speaker 1: I get to Philly, I stay in a hotel and
Speaker 1: it's just like you're just good, You're just packaged good.
Speaker 1: So that was probably the craziest and most memorable thing
Speaker 1: of the four years. Man, it was a wild you
Speaker 1: know that sports media stepping into this space was something
Speaker 1: you wanted to do or to just kind of falling
Speaker 1: your lap. Fell in my lap. Man. I do what
Speaker 1: I'm good at. I told people, I'm like, if I
Speaker 1: was great at math, i'd be an accountant. You feel
Speaker 1: me like, if I was very gracious, I might be
Speaker 1: a secretary, but I'm a good communicator, um, and I
Speaker 1: study it and I work at it, and I'm just
Speaker 1: good at putting words together. It kind of fell in
Speaker 1: my lap or even even uncomfortable conversations like y'all realize.
Speaker 1: People move to l a just to creative video and
Speaker 1: hopes that it goes viral and hopes it Oprah calls
Speaker 1: them and hopes that they get nominated for an Emmy
Speaker 1: and hopes that they win. People sell their whole lives
Speaker 1: and dreams to do that. And I stumbled into it,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like I tripped and fell
Speaker 1: into it, and so I just do what I'm good at.
Speaker 1: And like I said, I'm bad at a lot, Like,
Speaker 1: don't get it twisted. I am bad at a lot um,
Speaker 1: but I know what I'm good at, and I lean
Speaker 1: into that. I've tripped and fell into a few things
Speaker 1: and much hell support bills are crazy now, It's so
Speaker 1: Westlake Boy, Westlake, Ohio three sports star in high school football, baseball, basketball.
Speaker 1: I played everything is well going through high school. When
Speaker 1: did you decide to or did you play everything up
Speaker 1: until your senior year when you had to start trying
Speaker 1: to pick what you were gonna do next. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: So first all, I got a funny story about Westlake, Ohio.
Speaker 1: I'm from Cleveland Heights, Ohio. I took going into the
Speaker 1: NFL so serious that I thought when it. When I
Speaker 1: was filling out the form for the NFL dot Com stuff,
Speaker 1: I thought that I had to put where I was,
Speaker 1: like the hospital. I was born in Westlake Hospital. I
Speaker 1: thought it. Well, I thought they wanted the government government.
Speaker 1: So that's how that's how silly I am. I'm from
Speaker 1: Cleveland Heights, Ohio, and they just put Westlake up there,
Speaker 1: so they shout out to west Lake and everybody, but
Speaker 1: I'm from the east side of Cleveland. Uh. Ask you
Speaker 1: a question, though, man, I still I still wish I
Speaker 1: could find my way into an NBA team for a
Speaker 1: quick fifteen days, ten days. Yeah, I love hoops. I'm
Speaker 1: actually wearing the old school I don't know if you
Speaker 1: guys were part of the old school Gatorade, hoop it
Speaker 1: up back in the day. Back in the day, that
Speaker 1: was that was life right there. But for me growing up,
Speaker 1: growing up, I played every single sport uh you can
Speaker 1: think of. Man. I was going from hockey practice to
Speaker 1: basketball practice when I was in like fourth fifth grade. UM,
Speaker 1: I was playing baseball just about year round, hockey year around,
Speaker 1: soccer year round. And when it got to high school,
Speaker 1: that's when I really had to, you know, narrow it down.
Speaker 1: And UM, I wasn't sure exactly what I was gonna do.
Speaker 1: I knew I knew my school was was more tailored
Speaker 1: to a basketball school, as we had one state uh
Speaker 1: in nineties seven. Um and had a good track record
Speaker 1: that guys going to college for free playing playing hoops.
Speaker 1: And you know, that was something I knew. You know,
Speaker 1: my grades weren't the best, my effort in the classroom
Speaker 1: wasn't the best, so I knew I had to you know,
Speaker 1: sale somewhere else. Uh I wanted to go to college
Speaker 1: for free. So it was um it was definitely a
Speaker 1: basketball football with the main two in high school UM
Speaker 1: and uh. I just I had more offers uh and
Speaker 1: and and it just felt more comfortable for me to
Speaker 1: stick with football. Even though I did go to Cincinnati
Speaker 1: to play both football and basketball, I never saw the court.
Speaker 1: I practiced a few times and got and got in
Speaker 1: a few summer games, but outside of that, man, you
Speaker 1: only saw me cheering for the hoop squad, but I
Speaker 1: think it was. It was. It was an easy transition
Speaker 1: because I initially went to college for to play quarterback.
Speaker 1: So I went to University of Cincinnati to play QB
Speaker 1: and my first my first year, I read shirted. Second year,
Speaker 1: our coach Brian Kelly, who's that Notre Dame now, had
Speaker 1: a package for me um that to be the Wildcat,
Speaker 1: and man I did when I tell you, he came
Speaker 1: up with this the week before our first game, all
Speaker 1: training camp, two days nothing. I'm just trying to work
Speaker 1: on my three step with my three step game, right
Speaker 1: like I'm a rookie, like I'm a freshman, fresh meeting
Speaker 1: in the pocket and h shure enough, he puts this
Speaker 1: this package together and wants me to straight run the ball.
Speaker 1: The game came around, we went up I think like
Speaker 1: two scores, and the third time into the red zone,
Speaker 1: he threw me in there and I'm I'm in my mind,
Speaker 1: I'm like, he's not even gonna call this and he
Speaker 1: throws me in there, and I remember being so scared.
Speaker 1: My brother is actually playing left guard at this point,
Speaker 1: which is which is ironic because he's he's lead blocking
Speaker 1: for me. So I'm catching the snap I'm catching the snap,
Speaker 1: reading the defenders, and I'm like, in my mind, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm not even I'm handing this thing off the first time.
Speaker 1: I'm just letting a round. I'm like, hey, I'm in
Speaker 1: this thing. I'm a freshman in the in this uh,
Speaker 1: in this college football game like I always dreamed of.
Speaker 1: And man, it just didn't feel like I was ready
Speaker 1: for the moment. And then once I got my feet
Speaker 1: wet for one play, man, I was ready. I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, I can do this. I can do this.
Speaker 1: I I see how everything kind of just slowed down
Speaker 1: a little bit and uh, and that's when I really, uh,
Speaker 1: I really felt that I could take the game, um
Speaker 1: and turning into something you know that I could I
Speaker 1: could do for the rest of my life. Once it
Speaker 1: all slowed down and I could get into the zone, UM,
Speaker 1: I had the confidence to be able to just play instinctually. UM.
Speaker 1: And I made the I made the transition into into
Speaker 1: into the tight end room. UM naturally so so because
Speaker 1: I was doing the wildcast stuff, the coach wanted me
Speaker 1: to kind of be on the field so that we
Speaker 1: can when you sell players in and out in football,
Speaker 1: the official actually waits the offense can't snap the ball
Speaker 1: until the defense. You give the defense time to switch
Speaker 1: their personnel. So if you keep a certain personnel on
Speaker 1: the field, um, they have to keep their personnel on
Speaker 1: the field. So it's just it's one of those things
Speaker 1: where he wanted me on the field so they could
Speaker 1: stay in a certain personnel so that I could run
Speaker 1: the ball as well. But uh, doing that meant that
Speaker 1: I had to play a little bit of tight end.
Speaker 1: The success I found with tight end, man, it just it.
Speaker 1: It took off in college, and uh, you know, I've
Speaker 1: just been so grateful that I got the opportunity at
Speaker 1: such a young age, or I didn't wait till later
Speaker 1: in my college career to make the transition. I really
Speaker 1: found a love for the game when I when I
Speaker 1: moved to tight end. This is all a smoke A
Speaker 1: production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio and
Speaker 1: Part the Ship with Showtime