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Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Hemple, host of Hello Monday. In my twenties,

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Speaker 1: I knew what I wanted for my career, but from

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Speaker 1: where I am now, in the middle of my life,

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Speaker 1: nothing feels ascertain. Works changing, We're changing, and there's no

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Speaker 1: guidebook for how to make sense of any of it.

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Speaker 1: So every Monday, I bring you conversations with people who

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Speaker 1: are thinking deeply about work and where it fits into

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Speaker 1: our lives. We talk about making career pivots, about purpose

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Speaker 1: and how to discern it, about where happiness fits into

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Speaker 1: the mix, and how to ask for more money. Come

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Speaker 1: join us in the Hello Monday community. Let's figure out

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Speaker 1: the future together. Listen to Hello Monday with Jesse Hemple

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to she Pivots. I'm doctor Sheena Howard.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to she Pivots, the podcast where we talk with

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Speaker 3: women who dared to pivot out of one career and

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Speaker 3: into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted

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Speaker 3: these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. I'm delighted

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Speaker 3: to introduce award winning author, filmmaker, and scholar doctor Sheena

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Speaker 3: Howard to the show. This week, Doctor Howard's first pivot

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Speaker 3: came earlier in life, as a senior in college, when

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Speaker 3: she suffered a career ending injury, ending her dreams of

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Speaker 3: making it to the WNBA. If there are any athletes,

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Speaker 3: or student athletes, or even college students listening, you'll understand

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Speaker 3: how disorienting it can feel to lose the promise of

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Speaker 3: a career. I'm excited for you to hear how she

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Speaker 3: worked her way out of that loss mentally and went

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Speaker 3: on to find a new passion comics and writing at

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Speaker 3: Howard University. Went on to become the first black woman

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Speaker 3: to win an Eisner Award for her first book, basically

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Speaker 3: The Oscars of Comics, and since then she has written

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Speaker 3: for Marvel and DC and published four other books that

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Speaker 3: explore everything from Black we Are identity, to intercommunications to

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Speaker 3: academic branding and monetization. And this is just scratching the surface.

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Speaker 3: She is truly a force to be reckoned with. Hope

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Speaker 3: you enjoy. This episode contains references to abuse that may

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Speaker 3: be sensitive to some, so please listen with care.

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Speaker 2: My name is doctor Sheena Howard. I am a professor, writer,

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Speaker 2: and creative entrepreneur.

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Speaker 3: Love all those descriptions and I feel like you need

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Speaker 3: to give us a little more detail. What do you write?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 2: I write a lot of different things, but I write comics.

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Speaker 2: I write graphic novels, fiction, non fiction, and film. So

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Speaker 2: I write for Marvel Comics, write for DC Comics. And

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Speaker 2: I have a book called why Wa Kind Of Matters

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Speaker 2: that is pretty popular, along with some other books that

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Speaker 2: you may or may not.

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Speaker 3: Have heard of. So tell us about your childhood. You

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Speaker 3: grew up with you and your mom, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So I grew up with my mother and my

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Speaker 2: older brother. So I'm the youngest and went to Catholic

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Speaker 2: schools all of my life, even through college. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: nice home in Southwest Philadelphia. And I remember being eleven

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Speaker 2: or twelve years old in a department store with my

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Speaker 2: mother and we were at the cash register and my

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Speaker 2: mom was buying me yet the latest sneakers and the

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Speaker 2: latest outfit. And I looked up at her and I said, Mom,

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Speaker 2: we're rich, right, And she looked down at me like

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Speaker 2: only a black woman could, and she didn't say yes

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Speaker 2: or no. She just gave me a little grint. And

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Speaker 2: it wouldn't be until years later, when I was in

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Speaker 2: college and my brother was in college that we learned

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Speaker 2: that my mom had filed for bankruptcy. She had spent

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Speaker 2: all of those years raising us, turning pennies into dimes,

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Speaker 2: and creating resources out of nothing. So I didn't grow

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Speaker 2: up in a rich household financially, but my household was

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Speaker 2: rich and all of the things that a loving household

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Speaker 2: should be. So my mom, even though my mom got

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Speaker 2: divorced when I was very young, it was very important

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Speaker 2: to her to raise us in the house that we

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Speaker 2: were already in. That was very important, but also to

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Speaker 2: just make sure we didn't want or need anything. So

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Speaker 2: that's why I have a really big problem with single

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Speaker 2: mom household stereotypes because they're totally not true for me,

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Speaker 2: and they don't represent everybody, so it bothers me. But

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Speaker 2: my mom used to like take me to Macy's a lot,

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Speaker 2: and it's basically like anything I wanted I could have.

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Speaker 2: We like literally the best, most amazing childhood anybody could have,

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Speaker 2: and I wouldn't change it for the world.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned in there that you have a problem with

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Speaker 3: the stereotypes of single parent, particularly other live families. So

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Speaker 3: were you aware of those stereotypes when you were growing

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Speaker 3: up and it felt different or you just weren't even aware.

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Speaker 2: So no, I wasn't aware. In Philadelphia, there are a

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Speaker 2: lot of people that looked like me in single parent households.

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Speaker 2: So to me, it was just a household and I

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Speaker 2: had a great childhood. It wasn't until that I was

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Speaker 2: like twenty two or twenty three. I'm on a date

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Speaker 2: with this guy in New York, actually a first date.

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Speaker 2: You know, the typical questions, where are you from? That

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Speaker 2: kind of stuff. And I told him casually, like I

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Speaker 2: had said so many other times, oh, you know, raised

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Speaker 2: by my mother. He looks at me and he goes,

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Speaker 2: I don't date people from single parent households with the

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Speaker 2: most disdain. And I was just like confused because I

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Speaker 2: had never heard anything like that. It just never occurred

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Speaker 2: to me that this was even a problem. But that moment,

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Speaker 2: this relative stranger, really made me start to pay attention

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Speaker 2: to the way people talk about single parent household Girls

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Speaker 2: with no fathers in the home have lower self esteem.

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Speaker 3: Okay, fine, that sucks, But also women with low self

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Speaker 3: esteem are more promiscuous.

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Speaker 4: Like single mothers can do the job, but man, that's

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Speaker 4: hard life, and you're likely to be poor if you

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Speaker 4: do that, very likely to be poor. Even if you

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Speaker 4: started out middle class or above, it's a very easy

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Speaker 4: route to poverty and scary situation is different.

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Speaker 2: Most women who are single mothers have raised their kids

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Speaker 2: in poverty. So that's twice now responsibility. It's not dead.

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Speaker 2: It messed my head up. So, like I went on

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Speaker 2: this whole journey of just dating people from two parent

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Speaker 2: households and then encounters real toxic people from two parent households. Like,

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Speaker 2: the point is, it's not about a two parent household

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Speaker 2: or a single parent household. Some people from two parent

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Speaker 2: households do better, some people from single parent households do better,

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Speaker 2: and vice versa. And so the stereotype really bother me

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Speaker 2: about households in general. And then just even to add

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Speaker 2: on to that, it's like single father households like don't

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Speaker 2: exist in our culture, and that's a problem too, because

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Speaker 2: they do exist. And so my whole thing is about

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Speaker 2: image activism really and just representing the different types of

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Speaker 2: households and kind of moving away from a lot of

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Speaker 2: these stereotypes that really can mess people up in the head.

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Speaker 3: Really, do you think that your mother being such a strong,

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Speaker 3: loving provider provided you with an example of really self

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Speaker 3: reliance yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean she was a great example of self reliance determination.

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Speaker 2: Problems with the wage gap for black women who are

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Speaker 2: head of household, who are getting paid less than white

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Speaker 2: men for the same job. This is a big problem

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Speaker 2: right no matter what household you're in, particularly single parent households,

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Speaker 2: if people are not being paid equivalent to what other

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Speaker 2: people are being paid. Some of the problem is just

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Speaker 2: societies in equality that makes a single parent household a

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Speaker 2: struggle that it doesn't need to be.

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Speaker 3: Eventually, Doctor Howard found her footing not in writing, not yet,

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Speaker 3: but on the basketball court.

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Speaker 2: From a very young age. I was good at sports.

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Speaker 2: I could have went to college for free for either track,

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Speaker 2: for soccer, or for basketball. I chose basketball because basketball

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Speaker 2: was like my first love.

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Speaker 3: It's no surprise that when doctor Howard found her passion basketball,

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Speaker 3: her mom fully supported her as she put in countless hours.

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Speaker 2: I put in the hour to be a basketball player.

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Speaker 2: You talk about ten thousand hours put I played basketball

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Speaker 2: every single day, winter, extreme heat, every waking hour. I

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Speaker 2: went to a D one college in New York, full

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Speaker 2: paid all of that stuff, and then I ended up

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Speaker 2: breaking my wrist in college. Thing is the first time

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Speaker 2: I broke it I didn't know it was broke. It

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Speaker 2: was just sore and painful, but I played through it anyway,

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Speaker 2: and then I ended up breaking it a second time,

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Speaker 2: and that's when I actually went to the doctor. They

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Speaker 2: did an x ray and they're like, you know, there's

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Speaker 2: a hole in your bone because you broke your wrist before,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, Oh, that's why it was hurting

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Speaker 2: so much. So then they had to do surgery put

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Speaker 2: a pin in it, and so I had to take

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Speaker 2: a year off from playing basketball. And anybody that plays

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Speaker 2: D one sports in college knows that it's really tough

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Speaker 2: to come back from an injury that took you out

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Speaker 2: of the game for an entire year.

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Speaker 3: Her injury forced her off the team. She went on

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Speaker 3: to play her final year of basketball at New York

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Speaker 3: Institute of Technology, where she took the team to the

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Speaker 3: semi finals. But after having basketball as her ultimate goal,

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Speaker 3: she struggled to find a new identity, a new north Star.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you stopped playing a sport that you

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Speaker 2: played all your life, that's an identity crisis. When you

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Speaker 2: have a vision of this is what I'm going to

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Speaker 2: be doing for the rest of my life, because this

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Speaker 2: is what I literally prepared for since I was like

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Speaker 2: in fifth grade, and then you don't have that anymore.

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Speaker 2: This is when some athletes go into a real deep

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Speaker 2: depression because it never couraga to them that they are one.

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Speaker 2: They're going to have to figure out something else to be.

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Speaker 2: And so that's what happened to me. Had you been

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Speaker 2: preparing yourself to go pro? Yes, I was supposed to

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Speaker 2: be a WNBA basketball player, like I'm supposed to be

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Speaker 2: retired right now with my basketball sneakers and my signature

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Speaker 2: on them. During my college journey, the WNBA came into existence,

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Speaker 2: and everybody always told me, if a WNBA exists, you

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Speaker 2: will be playing. When I finished my basketball career, I

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Speaker 2: did get an agent that reached out to me and

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Speaker 2: invited me to tryouts, and I could have went, but

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Speaker 2: thankfully I was smart enough to realize that I needed

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Speaker 2: to let go of that dream because I realized that

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Speaker 2: I was no longer willing to do the work required

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Speaker 2: to make that dream a reality. So as much as

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Speaker 2: I wanted it, I was honest with myself, you are

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Speaker 2: at a point where you need to walk away from

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Speaker 2: this thing, and thankfully I did, because my life is

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Speaker 2: a lot better having not been a professional basketball player.

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Speaker 3: That's a pretty big realization, especially for a young person

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Speaker 3: to realize that don't I no longer have what it takes. Like,

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Speaker 3: I think that's a pretty big thing to take. How

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Speaker 3: did you come to that realization?

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Speaker 2: I just I don't want to do it anymore. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Like I was, like, I do want that thing, but

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Speaker 2: I don't want to do it anymore. And the tough

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Speaker 2: thing is I didn't have anything to replace that dream

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Speaker 2: with at that time. I was literally just walking away

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Speaker 2: with nothing to go to. And so that's where I

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Speaker 2: was like, I just got to stay in school and

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Speaker 2: I'll figure it out because I'm good at basketball and

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Speaker 2: I'm good at school, and so let me go get

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Speaker 2: this PhD. And that's where I did. I went to

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Speaker 2: Howard University. That's where I wanted to go, and I

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Speaker 2: figured it out fresh out of college.

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Speaker 3: She enrolled at Howard University to get her PhD. And

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Speaker 3: for those who don't know, when you enroll in a

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Speaker 3: PhD program, it comes with a teaching position or a TA.

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Speaker 3: This helped doctor Howard make ends meet before finding her

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Speaker 3: next path.

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Speaker 2: I always felt from a young age that I wanted

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Speaker 2: to be a teacher in some way. And so when

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Speaker 2: I started at Howard University, my tuition was paid for

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Speaker 2: because I actually taught students public speaking at twenty three

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Speaker 2: years old as the teacher on my own in a classroom.

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Speaker 2: So I'm literally teaching kids that I would like see

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Speaker 2: in the club on the weekends. Crazy. No, it's weird.

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Speaker 2: And it was like one of those fake it till

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Speaker 2: you make it type situations, and it's like either you're

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Speaker 2: gonna like do this or you're gonna crumble until you

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Speaker 2: better figure it out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm a big proponent of just try something, like

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Speaker 3: you don't have to go well in in it, but

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Speaker 3: like should not be paralyzed by the anxiety of the

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Speaker 3: decision making, Like, just try something. It doesn't more you

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Speaker 3: can change it. Yes, but the thing that you took on,

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Speaker 3: I mean, a PhD is first of all, a many

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Speaker 3: year endeavor, yes, but also a pretty big financial endeavor yes.

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Speaker 2: And so but I finished my PhD in three years

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Speaker 2: and I am proud to say that I am debt free.

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Speaker 2: I don't have any student loans. And the reason why

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Speaker 2: I bring that up is because I made that a

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Speaker 2: promise to myself a few years ago when I was

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Speaker 2: going through my divorce that I'm going to pay these

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Speaker 2: student loans off. I'm going to beat that free. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: so the tuition and remission helped from teaching, from teaching

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Speaker 2: those classes, and so I really just had to figure

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Speaker 2: out my room and board stuff which was which was

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Speaker 2: expensive and I did have to take out loans for that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I can say, how did you manage that? Did

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Speaker 3: you have a side a part time job inside?

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Speaker 2: So like I would get a refund check back, like

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Speaker 2: if you were in college, will understand this. I would

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Speaker 2: get a refund check back because my tuition was paid for,

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Speaker 2: so I would get a refund check back from the

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Speaker 2: loans and I would use that to live off. Of

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Speaker 2: teaching at Howard University did give me a small little stipend,

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Speaker 2: not a lot, but a small little stipend. And so

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Speaker 2: just kind of living off the refund checks is what

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Speaker 2: I did for three years. And I made sure that

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Speaker 2: I finished quick as quickly as possible, so that I

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Speaker 2: was done with my PhD by the time I was

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Speaker 2: twenty six.

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Speaker 3: That's amazing. But so what was the first thing you

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Speaker 3: did once you finish your PhD? Was it going right

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Speaker 3: back into teaching?

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Speaker 2: Yes, so by the time I finished my PhD, I

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Speaker 2: had clarity. So I knew that at that time that

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be a professor. Howard University showed me

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Speaker 2: that there are black professors, which previous to that, I

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Speaker 2: didn't have any like full time black professors that actually

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Speaker 2: taught a class. Howard University showed me the possibility of

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Speaker 2: being a professor. And so during that time is when

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Speaker 2: I did my dissertation on the boondocks, which changed my life.

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Speaker 2: Figured out that Okay, I want to teach, but I

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Speaker 2: actually want to make some money doing it, so I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be a professor. And so right after my PhD,

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Speaker 2: I did one year in the boondocks of Shippensburg at

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Speaker 2: Shippensburg University for a year, and then I landed the

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Speaker 2: job at Ryder University, where I still am, and that

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Speaker 2: allowed me to move back to Philadelphia. Now, one quick

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Speaker 2: little thing to that story is when I finished my PhD,

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Speaker 2: I actually had a ten year track job offer, which

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Speaker 2: is super important to a professor. But it was in

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Speaker 2: New York, in Brooklyn, and I turned it down, and

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Speaker 2: everybody thought I was crazy because a tenure track job

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Speaker 2: is like gold and I was getting that offer as

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Speaker 2: a twenty six year old, and I was smart enough

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Speaker 2: to realize, if I take this job, I will be

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Speaker 2: stuck at this university. I will be stuck there. I

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Speaker 2: knew I would be stuck there because it was a

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Speaker 2: teaching university and it wasn't paying me that much. So

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Speaker 2: I literally I knew that I'd be on a hamster

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Speaker 2: wheel with fifty thousand dollars in New York, probably living

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Speaker 2: with a roommate in Brooklyn. And I looked at the

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Speaker 2: future of my life and was like, that, ain't it.

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Speaker 2: So I turned that down and did the one year

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Speaker 2: at Chimpenberg with no promise of you know, job security,

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Speaker 2: And in that one year, I applied to like one

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Speaker 2: hundred more jobs and ended up getting one more offer,

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Speaker 2: which was at Ryder University, which was the best decision

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Speaker 2: that I've made career wise in terms of being a professor. Wow.

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Speaker 3: Okay, And you said something in there that you know,

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Speaker 3: we can't just skip over because this is a podcast

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Speaker 3: about changing our lives. And you said I did my

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Speaker 3: dissertation on Boondocks and ex changed my life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, doing a dissertation on comics in twenty

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Speaker 2: ten was not cool. Man, it's cool today, it was

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Speaker 2: not cool when I did it. People didn't understand what

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Speaker 2: I was trying to do. It was like, huh what,

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Speaker 2: And I stuck to my guns. Again. I was like

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Speaker 2: twenty three, twenty four, so it's probably more than I

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Speaker 2: just didn't know any better and I was kind of

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Speaker 2: this young like, now, this is what I want to do.

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Speaker 2: But that's what I did, and it changed my life

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Speaker 2: because out of that dissertation, I wrote my first book,

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Speaker 2: Black Comics, Politics of Race and Representation, which made me

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Speaker 2: the first black woman to win an Eisner Award at

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Speaker 2: San Diego Comic Con. And so some people might have

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Speaker 2: seen my reel where I say I am a Black

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Speaker 2: history fact, and that's where that story comes from. My

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Speaker 2: book Why What Kind of Matters was literally a clue

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Speaker 2: on Jeopardy. I am a Black history fact. And that's

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Speaker 2: why you can't let people projecting their fears and insecurities

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Speaker 2: onto you discourage you or stop you. Someone else's fear

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Speaker 2: and insecurity is not your problem. Really, you just got

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Speaker 2: to believe in yourself and they'll catch up. So because

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Speaker 2: I won that Eisner Award, it put me on the

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Speaker 2: map in the comics community. And then people started asking

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Speaker 2: me to write comic books, and it just so happens

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Speaker 2: that I got the opportunity to write a comic book

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Speaker 2: called superb for a nice size comic book company called

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Speaker 2: Lion Forge at the time, and they wanted to write

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Speaker 2: a superhero that had down syndrome, which was perfect for

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Speaker 2: me because I'm all about representing underestimated populations and telling

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Speaker 2: different stories and trying to make those differences mainstream. And

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Speaker 2: so this comic book was the perfect first place for

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Speaker 2: me to start in terms of writing a comic book,

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Speaker 2: and that was my first comic book. And some of

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Speaker 2: the things that I've been able to do are different

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Speaker 2: than what you think the traditional path is to be

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Speaker 2: able to write for a Marvel or DC comics. My

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Speaker 2: pathage just different. I just took a different way to

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Speaker 2: reach those goals.

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Speaker 3: At this time, did it take you to the moment

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Speaker 3: where you said, Okay, now I found my thing or

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Speaker 3: were you still sort of trying things out as you

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Speaker 3: went along.

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Speaker 2: So now that hindsight is twenty twenty, I latched onto

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Speaker 2: a new goal, which is to become a professor, get

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Speaker 2: a tenure track job, get tenures so that you have

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Speaker 2: a quote unquote job for life, it's not really a

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Speaker 2: job for life. And that was the new goal. But

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Speaker 2: it wasn't a life purpose. I knew it. But it

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Speaker 2: was a goal that kept me focused and kept me

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Speaker 2: from doing like dumb stuff. But the life purpose thing

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Speaker 2: bothered me because this entire time that I'm pursuing this path,

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Speaker 2: I felt like something was missing, and I kept like like,

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Speaker 2: I would literally pray, please tell me what my purpose

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Speaker 2: has got because the purpose was basketball, but I didn't

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Speaker 2: have that, so I still had it all of these

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Speaker 2: years a decade. I hadn't replaced that purpose. I just

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Speaker 2: had a new goal that was worth pursuing. And I

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Speaker 2: would literally be like, when I wake up, please just

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Speaker 2: give me a sign of what my purpose is supposed

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Speaker 2: to be like. And the sign never came. The sign

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Speaker 2: never came. I just got sick and tired of trying

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Speaker 2: to figure out what my purpose was. And one day

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Speaker 2: I was like, ain't nobody giving me a sign? My

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Speaker 2: purpose is the thing that I decide to commit to

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Speaker 2: and decide is my purpose. Now that's my story. Some

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Speaker 2: people don't like that. This is my experience. And so

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Speaker 2: once I committed to my purpose, now I got a

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Speaker 2: purpose and that purpose is to be a writer, change

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Speaker 2: millions of lives and to help people see the light

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Speaker 2: at the end of the tunnel on the matter what

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Speaker 2: they're going through. That's my purpose.

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Speaker 3: How did you get into Marvel and DC? So it's

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Speaker 3: like the comic.

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Speaker 2: Dream, right, I mean, that's the comic dream for a

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Speaker 2: lot of people. So I did. I wrote the comic

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Speaker 2: book for SUPERB That was my entry pointing to writing comics.

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Speaker 2: I wrote that, Okay, now I have proof that I

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Speaker 2: can write a comic book. I self published my own

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Speaker 2: comic called Nina's Whisper. It's a graphic narrative, and I

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Speaker 2: wrote for DC Comics first. So a contact that I had,

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Speaker 2: I reached out to him and I was basically like,

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Speaker 2: I want to write for DC Comics. He gave me

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Speaker 2: an email address. Now I believe in your inner wisdom

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Speaker 2: telling you when to do something. He gave me the

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Speaker 2: email address. I didn't use it. I said, the day

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Speaker 2: will come where my inner wisdom will tell me to

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Speaker 2: you that email address. So I waited probably months months,

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Speaker 2: and then the day came. I woke up and my

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Speaker 2: inner wisdom was like, it's time send that email. So

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Speaker 2: I emailed the editor at DC Comics, and I was like, hey,

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Speaker 2: here's what I've done, here's some samples of my work.

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Speaker 2: I would love to write for you. And they were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: great timing. We actually have an anthology that you can

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Speaker 2: write in. So after I wrote for DC, I was okay, Well,

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Speaker 2: the next step is Marvel, because Marvel's the big deal, right,

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Speaker 2: Marvel's the thing that people know about. So now I

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Speaker 2: had that that credibility. And I wrote a few things

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Speaker 2: for DC, so now I had that credibility. So for Marvel,

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Speaker 2: though I didn't have an email, I didn't know anybody

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Speaker 2: that knew anybody there. So again not waiting in the

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Speaker 2: long line that has a million people at the door,

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Speaker 2: I was like, what's what is the quickest way that

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Speaker 2: I can write for Marvel? So I went on fiver

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Speaker 2: dot com, shout out the fiver dot com and I

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Speaker 2: paid someone to find an email address for the editor

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Speaker 2: in chief, and I emailed the editor in chief and

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Speaker 2: was just like, hey, I would love to write for Marvel.

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Speaker 2: Here's who I am, here's what I've done. And I

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Speaker 2: also emailed the second person in command, who I can't

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Speaker 2: remember her name. Nobody responded fine, Fine, I moved on

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Speaker 2: like a year later, somebody from Marvel reached out to

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Speaker 2: me and asked me to write a story, and I

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Speaker 2: knew that I had a feeling that that editor in

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Speaker 2: She's had something to do with it, So I sent

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Speaker 2: him a message. After I wrote that story from Marvel,

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Speaker 2: I sent him a message and was like, hey, thank thanks,

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Speaker 2: and he'd sent me a message back and he said

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Speaker 2: sorry it took so long.

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Speaker 3: Since then, she hasn't stopped. She has published an encyclopedia

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Speaker 3: of Black comics, written another book on the analytical history

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Speaker 3: of black comics, published her first novel, Nina's Whisper, and

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Speaker 3: released her anticipated new book, Academic Branding, a guide for

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Speaker 3: how to make money as a scholar. So I want

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Speaker 3: to track at the same time as you're gaining prominence,

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Speaker 3: as you're gaining all these professional opportunities, your personal life.

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Speaker 2: When I left that one year job at Shippensburg University

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Speaker 2: and I moved to Philadelphia to take the job at

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Speaker 2: Ryder University, great job, I said, one of the best

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Speaker 2: career choices I ever made. Mentally, I felt like a

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Speaker 2: failure because growing up I never had a good feeling

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Speaker 2: about Philadelphia, and so I always thought Philly was just

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Speaker 2: not somewhere that you should be. Literally, did not love

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Speaker 2: where I came from. I didn't feel good about myself

435
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 2: because I thought the origin point of where I was born,

436
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 2: the city of where I was from, the neighborhood of

437
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 2: where I was from, a lot of the stuff that

438
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 2: they tell black people in their neighborhoods. Your neighborhood is

439
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 2: undesirable until it gets gentrified and like frankly, white people

440
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 2: move in, then all of a sudden, it's an amazing neighborhood.

441
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 2: I think if you can realize that where you're from

442
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,719
Speaker 2: is a part of who you are, even if it

443
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 2: wasn't good, learn the lessons, use that as strength so

444
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 2: that you can love yourself. One of the things that

445
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 2: I teach my son is like love where you come from.

446
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 3: It was this combination of negative feelings she harbored around

447
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 3: her home and the negative rhetoric around being raised by

448
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,919
Speaker 3: a single mother that chipped away her self worth and

449
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 3: left her vulnerable. It was then that she was introduced

450
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 3: to her ex husband.

451
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 2: And unfortunately that led me to being in not one

452
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 2: but two abusive relationships at the hands of people who

453
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 2: had parents that were still together. Because I thought they

454
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 2: knew how relationships worked better than I did because I

455
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 2: was from a single parent household. Four years ago today,

456
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 2: I lay on a sofa in my mother's house at

457
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 2: three am in the morning, shaking, shivering, crying, body ruse

458
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: from having been slammed into a car door. My then

459
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 2: four month old lay next to me in his rocker

460
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 2: while I rocked him with the tip of my toe.

461
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 2: Moments before, I had been physically, verbally and mentally abused

462
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 2: by my then partner, and I only escaped with the

463
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:21,719
Speaker 2: help of law enforcement. My ex came home for like

464
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 2: the thousandth time. So this is unbreigetable day because it

465
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 2: was my birthday, drunk, crazy, and here I got this infant.

466
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 2: And this is why my son is my hero, because

467
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 2: at the time I did not love myself enough to leave,

468
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 2: but I loved my son enough to be like, we're

469
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 2: definitely not doing this anymore because he was real little.

470
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 2: I'm talking about like months old, and so see, this

471
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 2: is how bad abuse is psychological. There was physical abuse too,

472
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: but this is how bad psychological abuse is. I should

473
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 2: have just left with him, but instead I went upstairs

474
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: and told this drunk person, Hey, I'm leaving you this

475
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 2: is it right, because when you're in an abusive situation,

476
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: you're trained to take care of the abuser. That's part

477
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: of how you stay right, because you have empathy and

478
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 2: sympathy and you love this person. And so obviously that's

479
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 2: a terrible idea because like rage and craziness, and that's

480
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 2: how I had to run out of the house with

481
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: my son being chased, and thankfully the police were like

482
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: just happen to be driving up the block and were

483
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 2: able to get the handcuffs out and help me leave

484
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 2: the situation with my son.

485
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 3: Doctor Howard took her newborn son and immediately went to

486
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 3: stay with her mom, where she's lived happily ever since.

487
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 3: But it took time for her to grapple with the

488
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 3: emotions around what she went through.

489
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 2: And the other thing was letting go of the shame,

490
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 2: because sometimes the shame makes your perspective on a situation

491
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 2: a lot worse than it needs to be. So my

492
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 2: situation was terrible. The situation that I was in the

493
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: weight of the shame made it worse. For like a failure.

494
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: My mom worked this hard for me to end up

495
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 2: here on her couch, her taking care of me, like

496
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 2: everything about it was shame, tons of shame, tons of

497
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: feeling like a feeling like a failure, like I did

498
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: all this. I had all of this success just to

499
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: end up in the house. I grew up in on

500
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 2: the couch with a child terrible. So that's what happened.

501
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 2: And when you're used to just having enough in terms

502
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: of money, like I just had money. I wasn't rich,

503
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: but I was like a single person. I have a PG.

504
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 2: I never thought about money, going back to my childhood,

505
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 2: my mom that had never had me worry about money.

506
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 2: The lights were always on, I always got what I wanted,

507
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 2: so I never worried about money. Money was just always there, right,

508
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: not rich, just regular. Now, when your accounts go to

509
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 2: zero and you have an infant and you have no money,

510
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 2: you quickly understand that money is super important. So I

511
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: had to change the way I thought about money. And

512
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 2: because of the shame and because where I found myself,

513
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: the situation I found myself in, I started to feel

514
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 2: bad that I spent all of these years not saving

515
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 2: money the way I should.

516
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 3: Now.

517
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 2: I was a very good I was very good with

518
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: money in terms of like credit, having a little bit

519
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 2: of savings. But when you don't have any money, you

520
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: start thinking about how you could have done better. So

521
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 2: part of the journey was changing my perspective on money,

522
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: not feeling bad for myself, taking one hundred percent responsibility

523
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: for the fact that I was in an abusive relationship.

524
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: I don't want anybody to hear me say that and

525
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 2: think that you know, the abuser is off the hook.

526
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 2: But for me, in order to guarantee that I'm not

527
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 2: going to make the same mistake in the future and

528
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: to take control of my life, I had to take

529
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: one hundred percent responsibility that at the very beginning of

530
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 2: that relationship I could have walked away, and if I

531
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: was in a better place mentally, I would have never

532
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 2: been in that relationship in the first place.

533
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 3: In this head talk that you did, you have your

534
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 3: three parts of empowerment, and you say this is not

535
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 3: the end of your story. Tell us about those three parts.

536
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: So these three things are how I got to where

537
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 2: I am today out of that toxic relationship, no money, nothing,

538
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 2: to where I am today. It's called the three truths

539
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: of self empowerment that will set you free. Grounded in Buddhism,

540
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 2: because you know, every time you go through a crisis,

541
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 2: you always try to find something spiritual, whether it's Christianity

542
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: or whatever it is. So I started going to what's

543
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 2: called the sanga, which is where people go for community

544
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: in the Buddhism tradition, and the principles of Buddhism helped

545
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: me see the light at the end of the tunnel.

546
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: That's a lot of the foundation of that X talk

547
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: Believe it or not. Three truths and self empowerment. Truth

548
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 2: number one, this is not the end of your story.

549
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 2: That's taking one hundred percent responsibility. This is not the

550
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 2: end of your story. Truth number two. Define your own story.

551
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: Whatever you are going through is going to change because

552
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: one constant is changed. So when I was spending those

553
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: years in my mom's house, feeling shame, feeling terrible, having

554
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 2: to get over the mistakes that I made, I just

555
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 2: would wake up sometimes and be like, this is not

556
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 2: the end of the There's something else of this. My

557
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: entire life is not going to be like this forever.

558
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: Truth number three. Be the hero of your own story.

559
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: So the three truths and self empowerment are you get

560
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: to define your own story. Be the hero of your

561
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: own story. And this is not the end of your story.

562
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: So I'm all about the stories you tell yourself are important.

563
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: I try to really stay away from a victim mindset,

564
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: like my work represents underestimated populations. That's what I do.

565
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: And by the way, that could be writing something for

566
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 2: a white guy who has mental health challenges or just

567
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: you know, challenging the status quo of his own limiting

568
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 2: self beliefs. But on a day to day basis, I

569
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: try to remember that it doesn't matter what color I am,

570
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,719
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter my gender. Although I know inequality exists,

571
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 2: I can't stay in that space because it's not a

572
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: story that's supporting where I want to go. I have

573
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 2: to know that these isms exist, but still believe in

574
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 2: my of all hearts that they are not going to

575
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: stop me from reaching the things that I want to reach.

576
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: Otherwise I'll be stuck in this rut of I didn't

577
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: get that because I was black. I didn't get that

578
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 2: because I'm a woman. Does it happen, yes? Do I

579
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 2: know it's happened blatantly, yes? But I can't stay in

580
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: that space on a day to day basis. I got

581
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 2: to tell myself a story that's empowering to me.

582
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 3: When I asked her about her bigger vision that she

583
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 3: had planned. Her answer reminded me of why I started

584
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 3: this show. It's truly the simple things in life that

585
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 3: drive us the most, those personal parts of our lives

586
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 3: that matter to us and as a result, impacts our

587
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: professional selves.

588
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 2: This big vision is making sure that I can pay

589
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 2: my son's private school tuition in full every year until

590
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 2: he graduates. Being able to pay my son's college tuition

591
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 2: if he needs it, by being smart with my real

592
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: estate portfolio and those types of things, being able to

593
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 2: have some rental properties so that I have the option

594
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 2: to retire early if I want to. I'm going to

595
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: stop working, but I'm going to stop working for other people, right,

596
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 2: And that's part of it. It's not the whole thing.

597
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 2: Be able to take care of my mom because she's

598
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 2: older and as we know, people get sick eventually, and

599
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: so that's kind of how what I want my life

600
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 2: to look like. But in getting to that vision, I

601
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: want to be healthy. And so this is an important

602
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 2: part of it because as an entrepreneur and pursuing your goals,

603
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 2: we can really forget to take care of our body,

604
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: our mental health. Like self care is not something you

605
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: do after you are already stressed. It's something that you

606
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: do on a weekly, daily, and monthly basis because you're

607
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 2: supposed to do it before you get to that point

608
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: of feeling super stressed. And so getting to my vision

609
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: my condo on the water as well downtown is is

610
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: that getting into my vision as a healthy person.

611
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 3: So what is one thing that or maybe there's multiple

612
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 3: things that at the time we thought, Okay, this is terrible,

613
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 3: I'm never going to get out of this, and now

614
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 3: in retrospect it as having really put you on the

615
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 3: path to success that you're on now.

616
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's kind of like a question about regrets.

617
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 2: And I do have regrets. I know successful people are like, oh,

618
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 2: I don't have any regrets because it made me who

619
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: I am and now I get to have all this

620
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 2: stuff because of the experiences that I had. No, I

621
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 2: have regrets. If I could do it all over again,

622
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 2: I would do particularly that relationship over again, and hopefully

623
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 2: the universe will allow me to learn the lessons in

624
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: a different way than the painful way that I had

625
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 2: to learn them. So I think that it's okay to

626
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: have regrets, and I'm okay to say that I regret

627
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: some of my decisions. And then the question is, how

628
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: do you just not do that again, don't make the

629
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 2: same mistake. So that's empowering for me. I know that's

630
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: different than what somebody else to make say in terms

631
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: of regrets, but that's how I think about it.

632
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 3: Well, Doctor she and Howard, thank you so much for

633
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 3: coming on. It's been really so wonderful to have you on.

634
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you so much.

635
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 3: Doctor Howard still lives in Philadelphia with her her mom

636
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: and son and teaches at Writer University. She just came

637
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 3: out with her latest book, Academic Branding, which is a

638
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: new style of writing for her and offers a guide

639
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 3: to academics and scholars on the tools and strategies they

640
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 3: need to position themselves outside of academia so they can

641
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 3: reach the masses and make an impact without the expense

642
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,479
Speaker 3: of a publicist. Visit Sheenachoward dot com to order it

643
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 3: today and be sure to follow Sheena on TikTok and

644
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 3: Instagram at doctor Sheena Howard to hear her amazing advice

645
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 3: and stories. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to this

646
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 3: episode of She Pivots. If you made it this far,

647
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 3: you're a true pivoter, So thanks for being part of

648
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 3: this community. I hope you enjoyed this episode, and if

649
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 3: you did leave us a rating, please be nice.

650
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 2: Tell your friends about us.

651
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 3: To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram

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Speaker 3: at she pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our

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Speaker 3: You Next Week special thanks to the she pivots team,

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