WEBVTT - Ep 306: You Are More Than Magic ft. Minda Harts 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:08.760 Hey Va, fam. I can't tell you how excited I 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:12.360 am to introduce today's for this week's guest, she is 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:15.080 someone who I feel like I just don't know. I'm 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:17.400 embarrassed to say that I wasn't familiar with her work 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.080 until more recently. But when I tell you I am 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:22.639 now a super fan, I am now a superfan. Her 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:26.480 name is Minda Hearts. Minda is a workplace and equity consultant. 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:29.240 She's also a best selling and award winning author of 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:33.040 books like The Memo and Write Within, which both have 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:38.440 become just Trevor treasure troves of insights and strategies and 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:41.559 real world tips for women of color struggling to find 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:43.760 their place in the modern day workplace. So you've got 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:46.199 to check out Menda's books. However, she's also got a 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:47.960 brand new book coming out as well that we're going 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.680 to talk about called You Are more Than Magic for 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:53.600 young adults, and that's going to be released the spring. 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:55.360 I think, like, right now it's out, you can go 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.040 buy it right now. You Are more Than Magic. Menda 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.880 is also a professor at NYU WAG. She is a 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.080 frequent guest on MSNBC, and she's been featured all over 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.680 the place, from ABC to Fast Company, Time Magazine. She's 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:12.679 a sought after speaker for companies like Liberty, Mutual, Nike, Google, 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.200 You know, no big deal. She's out there, and in 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.720 twenty twenty, she was named the top voice for equity 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:21.680 in the Workplace by LinkedIn. You can also check out 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:26.320 Menda's podcast called Secure the Seat. She is our podcast sister. Yeah, 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.680 so definitely head over to menda hearts dot com and 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:30.960 check out all of her incredible work. After the show, 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:33.440 check the show notes. We'll have links to all of 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:36.679 her amazing content where you can find her books. But 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:38.959 for right now, Menda is joining us on Brown Ambition 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:40.720 minda welcome. 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:42.760 Thank you, thank you so much for having me. Big 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.040 fan of you and Tiffany, thank you for the work 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:45.479 that you do. 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.440 Oh likewise, how long have you been in this space? 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:50.040 And why haven't I heard of you? This is my 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:52.680 I know it's my fault, but I want to know 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.280 all about how I know people who are usually in 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.440 your space have fascinating stories, and I want to hear 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:00.400 sort of like your origin story of how you came 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.480 someone who is now getting hired by the likes of 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.080 Google and Nike to hopefully come in and help them 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:11.640 fix and better retain and develop and grow women of 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:12.680 color talent. 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:16.919 Yeah, well, well, thank you for highlighting my work, because, 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.920 like you said, everybody may not have read the memo, 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.680 they may not know it right. And sometimes as black 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.280 women and brown women are were erased in different spaces. 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.400 So it's podcasts like yours, it's us amplifying each other 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.440 so that people know that this work exists, so we 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:34.600 don't have to suffer in silence. But it really the 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.919 work that I started doing. I started back in twenty 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:41.359 fifteen when it wasn't as popular to talk about, you know, 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.960 how black women and brown women were experiencing the workplace. 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.000 And it was shortly after I had read Cheryl Sandberg's 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.639 book Lean In that I thought, wow, you know, there's 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:52.799 some great advice in this book, but it's not talking 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.280 to me. It's not talking about the experiences that I'm having. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.320 And so I really just thought about, well, what about 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.639 women in the work and why aren't we talking about 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:03.760 all women? Why are we just talking about women in 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:07.200 dominant majority? And so I really just set out to say, 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.120 let me start creating content around some of the pain 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.760 points that we experience and I started doing that by 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:18.320 a blog in twenty fifteen, and then eventually started doing 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.400 these career boot camps in New York City around black 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.359 and brown women how to negotiate stuff like that, and 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:27.760 then eventually the books came. But it really my origin 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:32.560 story was sitting in my car Mandy crying after fifteen 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.200 years of being in corporate America and saying, is this 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.960 what my life is like? Is this what I have 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:40.600 to do to survive in the workplace? And I wanted 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:42.520 to make the workplace better than I found it, And 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:44.720 that's exactly what I've been trying to do. 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.600 Wow. Yeah, So I mean twenty fifteen that's when we 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:49.920 launched Brown Ambition, and I loved the idea that we 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:53.360 were like and obviouslytificansight here, but she's always here in spirit. 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:53.720 Yeah. 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.040 I love the idea that the memo was taking off 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:58.520 and broad Ambition was taking off. And you know what's incredible. 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.240 I know you mentioned until more recently, maybe it wasn't 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.480 as popular to talk about being black women and women 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:07.000 of color in corporate America. But I've never been so 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.480 proud of the work that we did back when in 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.600 twenty fifteen, when it wasn't you know, as popular when 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:15.200 the all the media attention wasn't there and we weren't 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.640 on all the lists and stuff, because it was like 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.839 we set the groundwork and planted those seeds. Tiffany always 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:24.840 uses that analogy of planting seeds so that when like, 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.920 I feel like your phone must have been ringing off 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:32.480 the proverbial hook. You know, after the summer of twenty twenty, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.440 it seems like a lot of because there's so few 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.080 of us. It's like, okay, who's a person of color 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:39.640 and who can talk about the workplace and about women 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.560 and okay, men to heart's done, you know what I mean? 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:45.200 And like who's podcasting about it? Brod ambition and like 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.320 two other people? Right, So I mean it must feel. 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.039 How does that feel? How does it feel to now 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:55.200 have like all this attention and do you feel like, okay, 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:57.560 like I've laid the groundwork for this, I'm ready for 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:01.640 this moment to capitalize lack of a better word, on 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:03.200 this newfound interest. 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.760 Yeah, it's you know, Mandy, it's bittersweet, right, And my 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:11.400 life did change a lot after the unfortunate death of 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.960 George Floyd because to your point, when companies were starting 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:16.600 to scramble and like, what are we going to do? 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.960 They're like, who's out there doing this? Right? 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.600 And when the old saying is if you stay ready, 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.760 you don't have to get ready. I was already doing 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.200 this work, and it was I had the memo had 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:32.039 came out six or months or eight months before George 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.200 Floyd somewhere around that time period, and so it was 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:38.839 just like the perfect culmination of Yes, I've been talking 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.200 about this, and let's dig in more. Now let's move 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:45.040 to some demonstration and not just talk. And so things change, 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.880 you know. I remember coming off the road in February 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.599 of twenty twenty doing my last in person speaking engagement, 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.039 and I didn't know what life was going to be 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.320 like once COVID had kind of shut things down. 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.599 I was living in New York City and then. 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.120 All of a sudden things were a little slow, and 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:04.039 then just the calls were coming. And I've been busy 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:05.560 ever since. 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:06.120 In a way. 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.120 But what I'm happy about is we finally get to 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.560 center black and brown women in the career narrative the 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.120 way that it should have been centered all along. Right, So, 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.640 now that I do have the microphone in many spaces, 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.960 I make no apologies for it, because I'm like, this 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:21.240 is what needs to be said, this. 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:21.919 Is what we're going to do. 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.120 And if there are women who haven't yet found their 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:27.279 voices in the workplace, I hope that our stories will 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:29.960 inspire them to activate their voice. Because we all have 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:31.920 a voice, we just have to decide how we want 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:32.839 to use it. 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.479 It's such crazy timing and like serendipitous timing that your 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.720 book had come out right before the pandemic and the 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:40.719 murders of George Floyd, Brown and Taylor and the list 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:45.279 goes on tragically. Talk to me about your book, I mean, 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.000 having come out before the pandemic, is there anything you 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:49.720 would have written differently? Or if you could add a 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:53.240 chapter today, what would you imagine adding to the book now, 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:55.919 having now come on the other side of this pandemic. 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.920 Yeah. You know, it's interesting because before the Joy Floyd murder, 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:03.040 companies would they'd be like, well, what are you going 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.440 to say first? You know, give me a script, like 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.440 we you know, racism doesn't exist here, Our black women 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.880 are thriving. They never tell us anything differently. I'm like, okay, 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.320 but do they feel safe enough to tell you how 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:17.120 they're really feeling that's a different question just because they 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.840 haven't said anything. And so for me, it was very 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:21.880 much kind of this push and pull. And then once 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.560 that situation happened in twenty twenty, then companies who were 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:28.360 like afraid to have a conversation or buy the books 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:30.800 for their ergs were like, wait, come on in, come 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:31.760 talk about it, talk. 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:33.080 About it at its full extent. 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.200 And so I was like, Okay, now that you're ready 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.200 to talk about it, we all should be ready to 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:40.400 talk about it too, right, And it was just this 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:44.400 weird kind of juxtaposition. And so for me it was 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:46.880 again saying, what is the main thing? Has always been 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:50.280 the main thing centering black and brown women in the workplace, 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.400 And so I just doubled down even more on the 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.880 content and it actually allowed me to write two more books. 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.240 I wrote Write Within and You Were More or The 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.760 Magic during twenty twenty and then they came out in 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.400 twenty twenty one in twenty twenty two. But those were 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.160 an extension of the memo because I thought about, Okay, 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.280 what are the rules to engagement, right, what are the 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:16.120 office politics, how do you build your network? All of 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.400 the different things. You're not going crazy? I want the 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:22.280 memo to affirm you, but really the extension of the 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.320 memo was right within to say, you've been exposed to 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.840 all of these racial experiences. You may not understand how 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:30.960 much it's harmed you, but you can be free of 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.360 that right because we want you to be your healthiest life. 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.480 You're not going to be able to be authentic and 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.800 do the office politics if you haven't actually tapped into 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:41.599 what's going on and how you're feeling about the environments 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:42.120 that you're in. 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.160 That's part of what you can control. 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.360 And so for me, I often thought about the memo 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:48.920 what I'd add, But I'm like, you know what the 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.120 extra chapter is right within the act secure chapter is 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:53.880 you were more than magic you? 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:56.440 Okay? I didn't realize the right Within came out after 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.320 the memo, so you just like, don't sleep. 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:02.160 I guess there's a little bags under my eyes. 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:06.000 Yeah, I mean that's still two books in two years, 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.200 my goodness. So okay, talk about the right within? 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:08.440 What? 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.360 So what's the take on that? Is that more, here's 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.840 actual actionable strategies on sort of like how to survive. 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:17.600 You know, now that we kind of all know what 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.720 the issues are, now, here's how to survive and thrive 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:21.720 right within. 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.520 I took it from Lauren Hill's how you going to 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:25.680 win if you ain't right within? 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.840 And I thought about, what are the things that. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.160 So, for example, when I was in my former life, 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:34.000 I spent fifteen years in my industry and there wasn't 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:35.640 a day I didn't go to work while I wasn't 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.760 racially aggressed in some way, shape or form, macro or micro. 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:42.160 But I had started to normalize the behavior, right, so 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.600 when someone would say, oh, the black girl or this 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.480 or that, any kind of derogatory type of experiences, I'd 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:50.520 be like, Oh, I guess that's just Scott being Scott today, right. 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:52.840 So I just learned to sweep it under the rug. 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:55.600 And I didn't realize how damaging that was to me 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.480 in my life, how I saw myself, my worth. And 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:00.480 then you think about the people you go home to 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:02.840 or that you engage with that love you, they're not 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:06.200 getting the most healthiest pieces of yourself because you've been 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.360 in this harm this fight or flight survival mode. And 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:11.880 I really wanted black and brown women to think about 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:15.679 what freedom looks like. Freedom from being the angry black woman, 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:19.760 the feisty latina, the docile agent, like we can't control 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.920 being free, no longer confined by those things, and so 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.760 right within was the inner work. And I talked about 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:30.040 how I had experienced so much racial aggression in the 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.280 workplace that I started to get panic attacks and depression, 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:37.920 and how I sought to find healing. I invite women 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.280 to heal from those experiences, so we don't take them 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:42.000 with us. 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:42.600 Yeah. 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:47.360 I think the hardest thing about the twenty twenty, just 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:50.120 twenty twenty in general, and the pandemic and everything was 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.680 not was sort of having to confront all of that 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.680 and to acknowledge sort of what you had been through. 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:01.000 And I mean, your experience sounds truly horren this. I 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.240 felt like I had the fortune of working at companies 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.120 that were a little bit better than most. It seems 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.560 like at at least not you know, egregiously, it wasn't 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:13.640 like a lot of egregious racism. But then even for me, 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:15.760 I think there's like the reflection time and what did 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.600 you go through and kind of acknowledging it that can 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.800 be really painful and that can make you, like you 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.880 mentioned earlier, these companies now want us, Oh we're gonna 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.000 we want to hear about it now. Talk to us. 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.200 We're ready to acknowledge it. But for me, it's like, 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.560 but are we are we ready to talk about it 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:34.400 black women? You know? And do we have to do 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:35.240 it on your time? 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:35.920 Yeah? 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:41.400 That part, you're ready, But like, this is traumatic and 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:45.920 painful and not necessarily something that even we've confronted internally, 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.160 you know. So for those of us who've maybe it's 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.760 been you know, I'm not saying that everyone had those 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.760 points of reflection and came to their aha moment in 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:57.800 twenty twenty. Maybe you've been working on it since then, 0:11:57.800 --> 0:11:59.760 but it's been a couple of years. So I mean, 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.360 what kind of advice do you have for those of 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:04.640 us who now have acknowledge it and it may feel 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.880 like we want to start healing. What can work? What 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:08.360 can help? 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:10.880 Yeah? You know, one of the things that I hear 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.280 from a lot of readers of Write Within is that 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.000 they didn't even realize they needed to heal because they 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.920 had normalized all of the experiences be it. You know, 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:21.600 we've all been to the doctor and the doctor will say, 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:23.520 where's your pain point? Is it a ten or is 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.320 it a one? You know, and we all have those experiences. 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:29.360 But if you only have experienced a three in the workplace. 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:33.680 Those threes add up and it's painful, right being mistaken 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.760 for the other black women every day, or someone not 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.080 giving you an opportunity to use your voice, or being 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.480 overlooked for the promotion. All of that is painful, and 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.920 we often know the reasons why it's that way, right, 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.160 But what do we tell ourselves? You know, just work hard, 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:49.920 just keep your head down. This is what it's like 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.120 for black and brown women in the workplace. But we 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:56.520 don't have to pass on those old tools of survival anymore, right. 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:59.200 We want the next generation in our current generations to 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.800 have the tools they need to thrive and not just survive. 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:02.719 But we first have. 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.000 To acknowledge that harm has been caused. And so one 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.480 of the things that right Within is a little bit 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.920 different than the memo is that I provide a lot 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.839 of different frameworks for when you're One thing I call 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.560 Mandy healing while in hell, because not all. 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.720 Of us are able to leave where we are right now. 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.160 We can't just quit, But how do we still focus 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:23.880 on the things that we can control? 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:24.319 Right? 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.920 But first of all, the number one point is acknowledgement. 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.000 You can't heal from what you're not willing to confront. 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.360 And I think for some of us, we never even 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.400 called it racism because it was never even safe to 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.040 call it that in the workplace, right, even to utter 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.840 that something was racist up until two years ago. We 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.040 you know, it's funny, dominant culture in the workplace will say, 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.400 don't play the race card, don't make it about race, 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:48.920 and then after George. 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:51.000 Floyd, let's make it about race. Let's talk about all 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:51.280 the things. 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:54.400 So it's these weird things, and as you know, black 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.160 and brown people, people of color, we just it's a 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:00.600 very jarring to be in this situation and we're trying 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:02.240 to figure out what all this means for us. And 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.920 so right within is that soft place for black and 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.640 brown women to land. We just need that space to 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:09.560 be able to land, to be able to be thoughtful. 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:11.960 I even talk about therapy and how that was a 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.440 very big part of my healing and still part of 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:15.040 my maintenance. 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.080 Okay, ba fan, We're going to take a quick break 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.440 and be back with more of my conversation with the 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:24.440 incredible men to Hearts. All right, we are back. Here's 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.280 more of my conversation with Menta Hearts. So you talk 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:29.880 about therapy, and I think one of the things that 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.080 is important in healing too, of course, is talking to 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.560 experts and finding the right therapist, and that's also a 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:37.880 journey in and of itself. 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:38.200 You know. 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.160 One of the things that I found was I didn't 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.240 realize I had kind of reached my patience limit for 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.640 talking about race issues at work and women and how 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.640 companies could how my company in particular could be doing 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.040 better because I had been talking about it and I 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.680 was like kind of like resentful about it when it 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:56.200 was a summer of twenty twenty and I was like, 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:58.200 you know what, y'all deal with this? And then within 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.680 the next eight months, I was gone. But for women 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.320 who are at work and maybe they've got some energy 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:06.520 or they feel like, Okay, maybe I'm ready to talk 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.560 about it, how do we make it? How do we 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:13.520 protect ourselves? You know, if you want to spend time, 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.080 whether it's you know, doing the town halls or talking 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.440 to your managers or trying to make things better, like 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:23.080 you said, for the generation to come in the workplace, 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.440 how do we protect ourselves in the workplace, and even 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.160 if we're ready to talk about it in the company, 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:30.240 says they're ready to talk about is there anything we 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.480 should be you know, weary of or just kind of 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:35.200 be watching our backs a little bit, you know. 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.760 I think that the one thing that I always say 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.840 is that we have options, and I think sometimes as 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.040 black and brow women, we feel like we don't have options, 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:45.800 that we just kind of have to go with status quo. 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:48.600 And I think now we're at a position where we 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.480 can say what we mean without saying it mean. So 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:53.880 what I mean by that is, if we do want 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:58.160 to engage in race, class, gender, whatever the case may be, 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.080 whatever intersection, we can decide that that's what we want 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:02.840 to do. But if we feel like we want to 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.560 tap out, we don't want that, let the DEI person 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.000 or somebody else handle that. I'm going to be over 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:10.880 here doing my work and doing my own healing. 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:12.000 Then we also. 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:13.960 Should give our self space to do that as well. 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.680 One of the things that right within in the dedication, 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.040 it says to black women who were told they had 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.120 to be strong for everybody but themselves, it's time that 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.520 we no longer have to center everybody else's experiences if 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:27.920 that's not congruent with what we want. And I think 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.800 we can create the boundaries. Part of healing, in my opinion, 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.800 is creating boundaries with people. So letting people know what 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:37.880 good likes, good looks like to us, So if we 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.840 don't feel comfortable engaging, we can use language like, you know, 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.800 I don't feel like this is a psychologically safe environment 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.480 for me to have this conversation right now, but when 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:48.920 I'm ready, I'll be happy to let you know that, 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.960 right And I think again, a lot of our colleagues, Mandy, 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:55.480 they will tell us in a heartbeat what's working for them, 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.480 what they don't like, the copy papers out, there's no 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.640 more filters, the coffee maker, you know, like they have 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:03.200 no problems saying what. 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:03.960 They want to us. 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.480 And I feel like it's time for us to recenter 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:08.480 and say, you know what, here's what works for me 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.960 and what doesn't because no one's gonna know that if 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.400 we don't let them know what good looks like to us. 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.840 And that is creating those boundaries. And so I talk 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.720 about drawing your line in the sand, letting people know 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.080 what's comfortable, and if you're not able to do that, 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.679 who's your squad? And the memo I talk about your squad? 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:27.600 Who are those people that you trust inside the workplace 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.320 that maybe you have the conversation with them and they 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.640 can have different conversations. So just knowing again that there 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:37.640 are various ways and resources that we can utilize that time. 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.000 But we don't have to feel guilt or shame or 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:45.639 a responsibility to be somebody's teacher and give them the homework, right, Like, 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:49.399 we can really now start to center ourselves and figure 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.520 out what healthy looks like for us. And if healthy 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.280 is not engaging, then that's not on the job description. 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.040 I don't think any of us were hired. Many of 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:59.040 us were not hired to be the educators of all 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.920 things racial related in the workplace. Now, if you want 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.080 to cut the check and this is an additional job role, 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:06.600 then that's a different kind of conversation. 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.439 Yeah. For me, I think it was also just realizing 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:14.280 that even if there was good intentions, you know, on 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.800 the employer's part or people in the workplace's part, it 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:22.480 was that sense of am I just the person who 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.639 makes you feel comfortable enough to talk about this, Like 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.360 am I that you know people say they have one 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:30.959 black friend, am I the black work friend, or am 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.880