1 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: Hey Va, fam. I can't tell you how excited I 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: am to introduce today's for this week's guest, she is 3 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: someone who I feel like I just don't know. I'm 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: embarrassed to say that I wasn't familiar with her work 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: until more recently. But when I tell you I am 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: now a super fan, I am now a superfan. Her 7 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: name is Minda Hearts. Minda is a workplace and equity consultant. 8 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: She's also a best selling and award winning author of 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: books like The Memo and Write Within, which both have 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: become just Trevor treasure troves of insights and strategies and 11 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: real world tips for women of color struggling to find 12 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: their place in the modern day workplace. So you've got 13 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: to check out Menda's books. However, she's also got a 14 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: brand new book coming out as well that we're going 15 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: to talk about called You Are more Than Magic for 16 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: young adults, and that's going to be released the spring. 17 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: I think, like, right now it's out, you can go 18 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: buy it right now. You Are more Than Magic. Menda 19 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: is also a professor at NYU WAG. She is a 20 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: frequent guest on MSNBC, and she's been featured all over 21 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: the place, from ABC to Fast Company, Time Magazine. She's 22 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: a sought after speaker for companies like Liberty, Mutual, Nike, Google, 23 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: You know, no big deal. She's out there, and in 24 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, she was named the top voice for equity 25 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: in the Workplace by LinkedIn. You can also check out 26 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: Menda's podcast called Secure the Seat. She is our podcast sister. Yeah, 27 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: so definitely head over to menda hearts dot com and 28 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: check out all of her incredible work. After the show, 29 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: check the show notes. We'll have links to all of 30 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: her amazing content where you can find her books. But 31 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: for right now, Menda is joining us on Brown Ambition 32 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: minda welcome. 33 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much for having me. Big 34 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 2: fan of you and Tiffany, thank you for the work 35 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:45,479 Speaker 2: that you do. 36 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: Oh likewise, how long have you been in this space? 37 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: And why haven't I heard of you? This is my 38 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: I know it's my fault, but I want to know 39 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: all about how I know people who are usually in 40 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: your space have fascinating stories, and I want to hear 41 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: sort of like your origin story of how you came 42 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: someone who is now getting hired by the likes of 43 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: Google and Nike to hopefully come in and help them 44 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: fix and better retain and develop and grow women of 45 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: color talent. 46 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, well, thank you for highlighting my work, because, 47 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 2: like you said, everybody may not have read the memo, 48 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 2: they may not know it right. And sometimes as black 49 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: women and brown women are were erased in different spaces. 50 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: So it's podcasts like yours, it's us amplifying each other 51 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: so that people know that this work exists, so we 52 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: don't have to suffer in silence. But it really the 53 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 2: work that I started doing. I started back in twenty 54 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 2: fifteen when it wasn't as popular to talk about, you know, 55 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 2: how black women and brown women were experiencing the workplace. 56 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: And it was shortly after I had read Cheryl Sandberg's 57 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 2: book Lean In that I thought, wow, you know, there's 58 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 2: some great advice in this book, but it's not talking 59 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 2: to me. It's not talking about the experiences that I'm having. 60 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: And so I really just thought about, well, what about 61 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 2: women in the work and why aren't we talking about 62 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 2: all women? Why are we just talking about women in 63 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: dominant majority? And so I really just set out to say, 64 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 2: let me start creating content around some of the pain 65 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 2: points that we experience and I started doing that by 66 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 2: a blog in twenty fifteen, and then eventually started doing 67 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 2: these career boot camps in New York City around black 68 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 2: and brown women how to negotiate stuff like that, and 69 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 2: then eventually the books came. But it really my origin 70 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 2: story was sitting in my car Mandy crying after fifteen 71 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: years of being in corporate America and saying, is this 72 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: what my life is like? Is this what I have 73 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: to do to survive in the workplace? And I wanted 74 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: to make the workplace better than I found it, And 75 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: that's exactly what I've been trying to do. 76 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, So I mean twenty fifteen that's when we 77 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: launched Brown Ambition, and I loved the idea that we 78 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: were like and obviouslytificansight here, but she's always here in spirit. 79 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 80 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: I love the idea that the memo was taking off 81 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: and broad Ambition was taking off. And you know what's incredible. 82 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: I know you mentioned until more recently, maybe it wasn't 83 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: as popular to talk about being black women and women 84 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: of color in corporate America. But I've never been so 85 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: proud of the work that we did back when in 86 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, when it wasn't you know, as popular when 87 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: the all the media attention wasn't there and we weren't 88 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: on all the lists and stuff, because it was like 89 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: we set the groundwork and planted those seeds. Tiffany always 90 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: uses that analogy of planting seeds so that when like, 91 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: I feel like your phone must have been ringing off 92 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: the proverbial hook. You know, after the summer of twenty twenty, 93 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of because there's so few 94 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: of us. It's like, okay, who's a person of color 95 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: and who can talk about the workplace and about women 96 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: and okay, men to heart's done, you know what I mean? 97 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: And like who's podcasting about it? Brod ambition and like 98 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: two other people? Right, So I mean it must feel. 99 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: How does that feel? How does it feel to now 100 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: have like all this attention and do you feel like, okay, 101 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: like I've laid the groundwork for this, I'm ready for 102 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: this moment to capitalize lack of a better word, on 103 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: this newfound interest. 104 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, Mandy, it's bittersweet, right, And my 105 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: life did change a lot after the unfortunate death of 106 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: George Floyd because to your point, when companies were starting 107 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 2: to scramble and like, what are we going to do? 108 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 3: They're like, who's out there doing this? Right? 109 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 2: And when the old saying is if you stay ready, 110 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: you don't have to get ready. I was already doing 111 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 2: this work, and it was I had the memo had 112 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 2: came out six or months or eight months before George 113 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 2: Floyd somewhere around that time period, and so it was 114 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 2: just like the perfect culmination of Yes, I've been talking 115 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: about this, and let's dig in more. Now let's move 116 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 2: to some demonstration and not just talk. And so things change, 117 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 2: you know. I remember coming off the road in February 118 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty doing my last in person speaking engagement, 119 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 2: and I didn't know what life was going to be 120 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: like once COVID had kind of shut things down. 121 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 3: I was living in New York City and then. 122 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 2: All of a sudden things were a little slow, and 123 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 2: then just the calls were coming. And I've been busy 124 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 2: ever since. 125 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 3: In a way. 126 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 2: But what I'm happy about is we finally get to 127 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 2: center black and brown women in the career narrative the 128 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: way that it should have been centered all along. Right, So, 129 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: now that I do have the microphone in many spaces, 130 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 2: I make no apologies for it, because I'm like, this 131 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: is what needs to be said, this. 132 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 3: Is what we're going to do. 133 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 2: And if there are women who haven't yet found their 134 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 2: voices in the workplace, I hope that our stories will 135 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: inspire them to activate their voice. Because we all have 136 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 2: a voice, we just have to decide how we want 137 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 2: to use it. 138 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: It's such crazy timing and like serendipitous timing that your 139 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: book had come out right before the pandemic and the 140 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: murders of George Floyd, Brown and Taylor and the list 141 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: goes on tragically. Talk to me about your book, I mean, 142 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: having come out before the pandemic, is there anything you 143 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: would have written differently? Or if you could add a 144 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: chapter today, what would you imagine adding to the book now, 145 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: having now come on the other side of this pandemic. 146 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, it's interesting because before the Joy Floyd murder, 147 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 2: companies would they'd be like, well, what are you going 148 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 2: to say first? You know, give me a script, like 149 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 2: we you know, racism doesn't exist here, Our black women 150 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: are thriving. They never tell us anything differently. I'm like, okay, 151 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: but do they feel safe enough to tell you how 152 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: they're really feeling that's a different question just because they 153 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: haven't said anything. And so for me, it was very 154 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 2: much kind of this push and pull. And then once 155 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 2: that situation happened in twenty twenty, then companies who were 156 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: like afraid to have a conversation or buy the books 157 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 2: for their ergs were like, wait, come on in, come 158 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: talk about it, talk. 159 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 3: About it at its full extent. 160 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 2: And so I was like, Okay, now that you're ready 161 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: to talk about it, we all should be ready to 162 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 2: talk about it too, right, And it was just this 163 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 2: weird kind of juxtaposition. And so for me it was 164 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: again saying, what is the main thing? Has always been 165 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 2: the main thing centering black and brown women in the workplace, 166 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: And so I just doubled down even more on the 167 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: content and it actually allowed me to write two more books. 168 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 2: I wrote Write Within and You Were More or The 169 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: Magic during twenty twenty and then they came out in 170 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one in twenty twenty two. But those were 171 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: an extension of the memo because I thought about, Okay, 172 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 2: what are the rules to engagement, right, what are the 173 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 2: office politics, how do you build your network? All of 174 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 2: the different things. You're not going crazy? I want the 175 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 2: memo to affirm you, but really the extension of the 176 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 2: memo was right within to say, you've been exposed to 177 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 2: all of these racial experiences. You may not understand how 178 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 2: much it's harmed you, but you can be free of 179 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 2: that right because we want you to be your healthiest life. 180 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 2: You're not going to be able to be authentic and 181 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 2: do the office politics if you haven't actually tapped into 182 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,599 Speaker 2: what's going on and how you're feeling about the environments 183 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: that you're in. 184 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 3: That's part of what you can control. 185 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: And so for me, I often thought about the memo 186 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: what I'd add, But I'm like, you know what the 187 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: extra chapter is right within the act secure chapter is 188 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 2: you were more than magic you? 189 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: Okay? I didn't realize the right Within came out after 190 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: the memo, so you just like, don't sleep. 191 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 2: I guess there's a little bags under my eyes. 192 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's still two books in two years, 193 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: my goodness. So okay, talk about the right within? 194 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 3: What? 195 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: So what's the take on that? Is that more, here's 196 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: actual actionable strategies on sort of like how to survive. 197 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: You know, now that we kind of all know what 198 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: the issues are, now, here's how to survive and thrive 199 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: right within. 200 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 2: I took it from Lauren Hill's how you going to 201 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 2: win if you ain't right within? 202 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 3: And I thought about, what are the things that. 203 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: So, for example, when I was in my former life, 204 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: I spent fifteen years in my industry and there wasn't 205 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 2: a day I didn't go to work while I wasn't 206 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 2: racially aggressed in some way, shape or form, macro or micro. 207 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 2: But I had started to normalize the behavior, right, so 208 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: when someone would say, oh, the black girl or this 209 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: or that, any kind of derogatory type of experiences, I'd 210 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 2: be like, Oh, I guess that's just Scott being Scott today, right. 211 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 2: So I just learned to sweep it under the rug. 212 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 2: And I didn't realize how damaging that was to me 213 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: in my life, how I saw myself, my worth. And 214 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 2: then you think about the people you go home to 215 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 2: or that you engage with that love you, they're not 216 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 2: getting the most healthiest pieces of yourself because you've been 217 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 2: in this harm this fight or flight survival mode. And 218 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 2: I really wanted black and brown women to think about 219 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 2: what freedom looks like. Freedom from being the angry black woman, 220 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 2: the feisty latina, the docile agent, like we can't control 221 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: being free, no longer confined by those things, and so 222 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: right within was the inner work. And I talked about 223 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 2: how I had experienced so much racial aggression in the 224 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 2: workplace that I started to get panic attacks and depression, 225 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 2: and how I sought to find healing. I invite women 226 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: to heal from those experiences, so we don't take them 227 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: with us. 228 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 229 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: I think the hardest thing about the twenty twenty, just 230 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: twenty twenty in general, and the pandemic and everything was 231 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: not was sort of having to confront all of that 232 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: and to acknowledge sort of what you had been through. 233 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: And I mean, your experience sounds truly horren this. I 234 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: felt like I had the fortune of working at companies 235 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: that were a little bit better than most. It seems 236 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: like at at least not you know, egregiously, it wasn't 237 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: like a lot of egregious racism. But then even for me, 238 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: I think there's like the reflection time and what did 239 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: you go through and kind of acknowledging it that can 240 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: be really painful and that can make you, like you 241 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, these companies now want us, Oh we're gonna 242 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: we want to hear about it now. Talk to us. 243 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: We're ready to acknowledge it. But for me, it's like, 244 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: but are we are we ready to talk about it 245 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: black women? You know? And do we have to do 246 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: it on your time? 247 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 3: Yeah? 248 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: That part, you're ready, But like, this is traumatic and 249 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: painful and not necessarily something that even we've confronted internally, 250 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: you know. So for those of us who've maybe it's 251 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: been you know, I'm not saying that everyone had those 252 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: points of reflection and came to their aha moment in 253 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Maybe you've been working on it since then, 254 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: but it's been a couple of years. So I mean, 255 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: what kind of advice do you have for those of 256 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: us who now have acknowledge it and it may feel 257 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: like we want to start healing. What can work? What 258 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: can help? 259 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, one of the things that I hear 260 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 2: from a lot of readers of Write Within is that 261 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 2: they didn't even realize they needed to heal because they 262 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 2: had normalized all of the experiences be it. You know, 263 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 2: we've all been to the doctor and the doctor will say, 264 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: where's your pain point? Is it a ten or is 265 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 2: it a one? You know, and we all have those experiences. 266 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 2: But if you only have experienced a three in the workplace. 267 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 2: Those threes add up and it's painful, right being mistaken 268 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 2: for the other black women every day, or someone not 269 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 2: giving you an opportunity to use your voice, or being 270 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: overlooked for the promotion. All of that is painful, and 271 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: we often know the reasons why it's that way, right, 272 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 2: But what do we tell ourselves? You know, just work hard, 273 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 2: just keep your head down. This is what it's like 274 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 2: for black and brown women in the workplace. But we 275 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 2: don't have to pass on those old tools of survival anymore, right. 276 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 2: We want the next generation in our current generations to 277 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 2: have the tools they need to thrive and not just survive. 278 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:02,719 Speaker 3: But we first have. 279 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 2: To acknowledge that harm has been caused. And so one 280 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 2: of the things that right Within is a little bit 281 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 2: different than the memo is that I provide a lot 282 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 2: of different frameworks for when you're One thing I call 283 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 2: Mandy healing while in hell, because not all. 284 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 3: Of us are able to leave where we are right now. 285 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 2: We can't just quit, But how do we still focus 286 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: on the things that we can control? 287 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 3: Right? 288 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 2: But first of all, the number one point is acknowledgement. 289 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 2: You can't heal from what you're not willing to confront. 290 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: And I think for some of us, we never even 291 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 2: called it racism because it was never even safe to 292 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: call it that in the workplace, right, even to utter 293 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 2: that something was racist up until two years ago. We 294 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 2: you know, it's funny, dominant culture in the workplace will say, 295 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 2: don't play the race card, don't make it about race, 296 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 2: and then after George. 297 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 3: Floyd, let's make it about race. Let's talk about all 298 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 3: the things. 299 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 2: So it's these weird things, and as you know, black 300 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: and brown people, people of color, we just it's a 301 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: very jarring to be in this situation and we're trying 302 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 2: to figure out what all this means for us. And 303 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 2: so right within is that soft place for black and 304 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 2: brown women to land. We just need that space to 305 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 2: be able to land, to be able to be thoughtful. 306 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 2: I even talk about therapy and how that was a 307 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 2: very big part of my healing and still part of 308 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: my maintenance. 309 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: Okay, ba fan, We're going to take a quick break 310 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: and be back with more of my conversation with the 311 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: incredible men to Hearts. All right, we are back. Here's 312 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: more of my conversation with Menta Hearts. So you talk 313 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: about therapy, and I think one of the things that 314 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: is important in healing too, of course, is talking to 315 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: experts and finding the right therapist, and that's also a 316 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: journey in and of itself. 317 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 2: You know. 318 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: One of the things that I found was I didn't 319 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: realize I had kind of reached my patience limit for 320 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: talking about race issues at work and women and how 321 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: companies could how my company in particular could be doing 322 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: better because I had been talking about it and I 323 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: was like kind of like resentful about it when it 324 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: was a summer of twenty twenty and I was like, 325 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: you know what, y'all deal with this? And then within 326 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: the next eight months, I was gone. But for women 327 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: who are at work and maybe they've got some energy 328 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: or they feel like, Okay, maybe I'm ready to talk 329 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: about it, how do we make it? How do we 330 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: protect ourselves? You know, if you want to spend time, 331 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: whether it's you know, doing the town halls or talking 332 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: to your managers or trying to make things better, like 333 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: you said, for the generation to come in the workplace, 334 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: how do we protect ourselves in the workplace, and even 335 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: if we're ready to talk about it in the company, 336 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: says they're ready to talk about is there anything we 337 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: should be you know, weary of or just kind of 338 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: be watching our backs a little bit, you know. 339 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 2: I think that the one thing that I always say 340 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: is that we have options, and I think sometimes as 341 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: black and brow women, we feel like we don't have options, 342 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 2: that we just kind of have to go with status quo. 343 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 2: And I think now we're at a position where we 344 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 2: can say what we mean without saying it mean. So 345 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 2: what I mean by that is, if we do want 346 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 2: to engage in race, class, gender, whatever the case may be, 347 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 2: whatever intersection, we can decide that that's what we want 348 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: to do. But if we feel like we want to 349 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: tap out, we don't want that, let the DEI person 350 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 2: or somebody else handle that. I'm going to be over 351 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: here doing my work and doing my own healing. 352 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 3: Then we also. 353 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 2: Should give our self space to do that as well. 354 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 2: One of the things that right within in the dedication, 355 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 2: it says to black women who were told they had 356 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 2: to be strong for everybody but themselves, it's time that 357 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 2: we no longer have to center everybody else's experiences if 358 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 2: that's not congruent with what we want. And I think 359 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 2: we can create the boundaries. Part of healing, in my opinion, 360 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 2: is creating boundaries with people. So letting people know what 361 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: good likes, good looks like to us, So if we 362 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 2: don't feel comfortable engaging, we can use language like, you know, 363 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 2: I don't feel like this is a psychologically safe environment 364 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 2: for me to have this conversation right now, but when 365 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 2: I'm ready, I'll be happy to let you know that, 366 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 2: right And I think again, a lot of our colleagues, Mandy, 367 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: they will tell us in a heartbeat what's working for them, 368 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 2: what they don't like, the copy papers out, there's no 369 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 2: more filters, the coffee maker, you know, like they have 370 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 2: no problems saying what. 371 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 3: They want to us. 372 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 2: And I feel like it's time for us to recenter 373 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 2: and say, you know what, here's what works for me 374 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 2: and what doesn't because no one's gonna know that if 375 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 2: we don't let them know what good looks like to us. 376 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 2: And that is creating those boundaries. And so I talk 377 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 2: about drawing your line in the sand, letting people know 378 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 2: what's comfortable, and if you're not able to do that, 379 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 2: who's your squad? And the memo I talk about your squad? 380 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 2: Who are those people that you trust inside the workplace 381 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 2: that maybe you have the conversation with them and they 382 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 2: can have different conversations. So just knowing again that there 383 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 2: are various ways and resources that we can utilize that time. 384 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 2: But we don't have to feel guilt or shame or 385 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 2: a responsibility to be somebody's teacher and give them the homework, right, Like, 386 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 2: we can really now start to center ourselves and figure 387 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: out what healthy looks like for us. And if healthy 388 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: is not engaging, then that's not on the job description. 389 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 2: I don't think any of us were hired. Many of 390 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 2: us were not hired to be the educators of all 391 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 2: things racial related in the workplace. Now, if you want 392 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 2: to cut the check and this is an additional job role, 393 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: then that's a different kind of conversation. 394 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,439 Speaker 1: Yeah. For me, I think it was also just realizing 395 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: that even if there was good intentions, you know, on 396 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: the employer's part or people in the workplace's part, it 397 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: was that sense of am I just the person who 398 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: makes you feel comfortable enough to talk about this, Like 399 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 1: am I that you know people say they have one 400 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,959 Speaker 1: black friend, am I the black work friend, or am 401 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: I the senior leader black woman who you can sort 402 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: of look to and say, well, we're doing something right 403 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: of Mandy's here and she's doing Okay. I have to 404 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: unpack all of that. But if I think back on 405 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: my corporate experience, is the higher and the ranks I got, 406 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: the more it felt like I became that token, that 407 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 1: like that pet. You know, there's this yeah, there's this 408 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: whole idea of black women in the workplace kind of 409 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: being a pet one day and then a threat the 410 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: next day. And oh man, that is the exact thing 411 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: that happened to me. I can't even I don't even 412 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: know if I've unpacked that yet, but I totally agree. 413 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: It's like the willingness to draw a line in the sand, 414 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: like you said, set a boundary and not talk, not 415 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: show up until you're, like you said, psychologically safe enough 416 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: to do so. 417 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 2: And we can create that for ourselves. And I think 418 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 2: giving ourself permission to do that, right, because we know 419 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,239 Speaker 2: what it's like to walk on eggshells at work. We 420 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 2: know what it's like when we're not creating boundaries. So 421 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 2: let's flip it. Let's give it a chance, right. I 422 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 2: invite people to think about, what if you haven't been 423 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,719 Speaker 2: creating boundaries, what's that one step. What's that boundary that 424 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 2: you can create to help center you, because we're not 425 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 2: going to be our healthiest selves if we're contantly walking 426 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 2: on those eggshells and pretending that some of these things 427 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 2: are not affecting us. Because I make the joke sometimes 428 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 2: Mandy is like, no, we're not angry black women at work, 429 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 2: but when we go home, some of our family members 430 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 2: might see an angrier side, right, because you're you're taking 431 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: all of that from one place that we can't express 432 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 2: ourselves and articulate what's going on now we take it 433 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: home and then the other part of it, it's chronic 434 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 2: stress in our bodies, which is making us not be 435 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 2: able to live our most healthiest lives on this planet 436 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 2: because of all that chronic stress. 437 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 3: So our lives, our life really depends on it. 438 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're absolutely right, and our happiness, like our family's happiness, 439 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: let's talk about you are more than magic. I love 440 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: the concept of this book, especially being targeted toward young 441 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: Black women. Right young. I'm thinking children like adolescent age, 442 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 1: like teenage. I want every little girl and teenage girl 443 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: to know that they are more than magic. Talk to 444 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: me about that book and what it's all about and 445 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: what made you want to write that next. 446 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 2: Yes, that's my third book that just came out with 447 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 2: Penguin Tine. Thank you for it. I'm just so incredibly 448 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 2: proud of you. Are more than magic. It's actually, I 449 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 2: like to say that it's a younger, a young adult 450 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 2: version of the memo. So I thought about what were 451 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 2: the things that I needed to hear at fifteen, at thirteen, 452 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 2: being you know, a black girl in a predominantly growing 453 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 2: up in a white town, but often being the only 454 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 2: black girl on your teams, in your classrooms. Those sorts 455 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 2: of things and some of those early experiences start to 456 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 2: dictate who we show up as in our adult life, right, 457 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 2: And I wanted to be able to talk to young 458 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 2: girls to say, you know what, what you're doing right now, 459 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 2: it's not magic. It's resilience. It's hard work, it's dedication, 460 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: it's not luck. Right, You're not some magical faery for 461 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 2: people to look at. I know we use the term 462 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 2: black girl magic as endearing, which it's very much is, 463 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 2: But any black woman that's got where she is today 464 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 2: is not magic, right. It's hard work, it's grit, it's 465 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: a community invested in her, and we're so much more 466 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 2: than that. And I just wanted young girls to know 467 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 2: that they could take up space right now. They just 468 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 2: have to decide how much space they want to take up. 469 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 2: They have a voice right now. What does it look 470 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 2: like to have those conversations when their classmates says something 471 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 2: that doesn't feel good, maybe it's about their hair or 472 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 2: their name. 473 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 3: Or how they show up. What does how you respawn? 474 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 2: You know, you don't have to tie your worth to 475 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 2: somebody's ignorance. You know, all the little things that we 476 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 2: probably needed to hear, things like courage. But then also 477 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 2: I wrote the book in a way in which adults 478 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 2: in their lives are educators could also engage and read 479 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 2: this book because we do. They do have voices, and 480 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 2: we want them to have healthy tools to be able 481 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 2: to engage and show up in the spaces that they 482 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 2: need to as their full selves, not shrinking. Because we 483 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 2: know what it feels like as adults when our voices 484 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 2: are shrunk in the workplace, and sometimes those things happen 485 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 2: as teenagers, and we just want to make sure that 486 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 2: that's not happening to them so that they can be 487 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 2: their best selves. 488 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that idea. I think one of the 489 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: things for me growing up was sometimes the sometimes the 490 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: voices that tell us as young black women, to go 491 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: with it, go with the flow, just be grateful. You know, 492 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 1: here's your awards, So pat on the head. Aren't you magical? 493 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: All that? Sometimes that can come from people who look 494 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: like us, from family, you know, for me, it certainly did. 495 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: And I wonder, like, do you have any advice for 496 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: this next next generation of young black women who I 497 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: just feel like are going to be a freaking force 498 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: of nature. And I hope they're not going to even 499 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: know what imposter's inndrome is. They're just gonna be like, what, 500 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: You're not gonna pay me? Well, bye bye. But I 501 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: worry a little bit about that, like that friction between 502 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: generations that you have a whole other generation who was 503 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: told a completely different way of how to be, and 504 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: then you have this newer generation coming up who is 505 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: gonna hopefully know a lot different because they're going to 506 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: read you are more than magic. But like, do you 507 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: have any advice for that or any thoughts on that. 508 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 3: You know what. 509 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 2: I'm glad that you brought that up, because as I 510 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: wrote the book, I was constantly thinking about the generational 511 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 2: gap right, because you think about for some of our 512 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 2: some of our elders, they taught many of us be 513 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 2: seen and not heard right, or sometimes they use language 514 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 2: like speak up, girl, or shut up, or know you're playing. 515 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 3: You know, all these. 516 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 2: Different things that are you know, social media wasn't necessarily 517 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 2: a thing for some generations, so they don't understand the 518 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 2: pressure that these young girls may be under right now. 519 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: And so instead of me showing up to the book 520 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 2: and being like when I was your age, I decided 521 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 2: to do a bunch of round table discussions with black 522 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 2: girls across the country, and I sat and asked them 523 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 2: questions about what they are experiencing, what are the pain points, 524 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 2: and I wrote from there from their pain points, and 525 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 2: I talked about my experiences around those and things. And 526 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 2: so one of the big one told topic is difficult conversations. 527 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 2: And I talk to them about it because I told them, 528 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 2: there's people in your life that may not have the 529 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 2: tools they need to help you be your best self. 530 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 2: So don't let them dictate you know, how you show 531 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 2: up in the world, because it's not that they don't 532 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 2: want you to be seen or use your voice. They 533 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 2: just might not know that it's possible, right, And so 534 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 2: I also write to the parent and the guardians to say, 535 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 2: you know, don't silence your young girl's voice. If she's 536 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 2: saying something, hear her out right, so that you can 537 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 2: have a diet. And I think that that's crossing the 538 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 2: inner generational gap so that we can all sit together 539 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 2: and say, listen, this is hard out here sometimes, but 540 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 2: we you deserve to be in this space. You deserve 541 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 2: to be in every room that you're in, but not every. 542 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 3: Space deserves to have you. 543 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 2: And the earlier a young black girl, brown girl can 544 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 2: know that the moment she can say peace, that she 545 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 2: doesn't have to just stay here and participate in this 546 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 2: you know, oppression, but that she can find those spaces 547 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 2: that celebrate her right. Or when I was younger, my 548 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 2: father always had to go and talk to one particular 549 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 2: teacher because she was always singling me out as the 550 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 2: only black girl in class. So when those things happened, 551 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 2: having the language to be able to articulate that sometimes 552 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 2: things are race related, but it doesn't dictate your worth. 553 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 2: And I think young girls just need to know that 554 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 2: early on. 555 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and if it's not I love what you said, 556 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: I want to like go back to that because I 557 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: just feel like I want to put it on a 558 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: poster and hang it on my wall. But it was 559 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: about people around you may have the tools that they 560 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: need to help you be the best vers something like that. 561 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: So such an incredible way to like a mind shift, 562 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: you know, how to shift your mindset around Okay, even 563 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: if someone around you is saying one thing, you don't 564 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: always have to internalize that or going to people who 565 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 1: may just be you know, your family or your friends 566 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: at school. The world gets so much bigger, you know, 567 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,719 Speaker 1: once you get out of high school, even through college 568 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: and then the working world, and then finding the people 569 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: who do have who are healthy enough themselves to be 570 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: able to pour into you, you know what I mean, 571 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: And like surrounding yourself, it may take a while for me. 572 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 1: I feel like it took me years and years to 573 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: collect the right little group of gems, you know what 574 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 1: I mean. But when you find your chosen family in 575 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: that way, and it's like a collection of mentors like colleagues, 576 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 1: new friends, but yeah, people who you sort of surround 577 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: yourself with, who are who are able to give you 578 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: what you need and echo back to you how much 579 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: you're capable of that's such a beautiful, beautiful message. So 580 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: what does this look like for you? I feel like 581 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: you should be at every high school across America, like 582 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: doing talks and stuff. But how are you reaching these teens? 583 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's been a different process having well 584 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 2: when the memo came out, the book came out before 585 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 2: the pandemic, then Right Within came out during the pandemic, 586 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 2: and now you are more the magic. 587 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 3: It's a new group of people. 588 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 2: So the one thing that I've demographics, so I'm starting 589 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 2: to I did an event with Black Girls Rock last week, 590 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 2: which was really awesome. They have a Black Girl's Lead program, 591 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 2: and one of their alums interviewed me about some of 592 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 2: the topics in the book. But my goal is to 593 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 2: get to every organization and school and have these conversations 594 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 2: and also talk with parents and educators and guardians because 595 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 2: I think that part of the success of young black 596 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 2: and brown girls is making sure that. 597 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 3: We have the tools to be able to support. 598 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 2: Them in the ways that they need to and so 599 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 2: again having these new tools so that they can. 600 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 3: Thrive and be their best selves right now. 601 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 2: But so, if anyone listening, if you know of any 602 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,479 Speaker 2: good organizations or sororities or fraternities that have you know, 603 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 2: little sister or brother organizations. 604 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 3: These conversations need to be. 605 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 2: Had because now it's the time, right And like you said, 606 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 2: I'm so excited with this generation because they're thinking differently, 607 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 2: they're more inclusive and if they just have the right curation, 608 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 2: there's nothing that. 609 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 3: They can do. 610 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I And it's it's also I feel like 611 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: on some level, maybe a little bit more difficult to convince. 612 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: I'm a mom now. I don't know if you're a 613 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: mom too, I have a young son. Being a parent now, 614 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 1: I'm kind of shocked at how little I recognized how 615 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: little this country, it can feel like countries, this country 616 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: cares about kids in general, let alone black and brown kids. 617 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: And the more I the more I, you know, look 618 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: at the world differently through my son's eyes, I'm just like, damn, 619 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: why don't we do more? And I can just see 620 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: already the challenge of convincing. I mean, it's one thing 621 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: to convince a company to invest in like having a 622 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: mend to hearts come and speak to their erg or whatnot. 623 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: But how like I'm just begging everyone listening to just 624 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: think about how we are, like those organizations that are 625 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: working with black girls and black girl empowerment and leadership 626 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: and black You mentioned Black Girl's Rock, which is incredible, 627 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: But how are we supporting and showing up for those 628 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: organizations and showing that we care about the work, that 629 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: we care about investing more in young women of color. 630 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: So ugh, I just want to put them all in 631 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: like little snow globes and protect them from everything. 632 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 3: Ah. 633 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 2: You know, one thing I'll say really fast, Mandy, is 634 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 2: that when I did the roundtables with the black girls 635 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 2: from different parts of the country, and you know, one 636 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 2: thing I asked them, what would you want people to 637 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 2: know about you and how to engage in the regardless 638 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 2: of where I spoke to them and where they live 639 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 2: in the country. They said, they just want to be seen. 640 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 2: They want people to treat them like they treat their 641 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 2: daughters and their sons and just be seen. And it 642 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: broke my heart that even at thirteen and fourteen and 643 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 2: twenty one, that they feel that like not being right. 644 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 2: And I use this book as a protector, like, even 645 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 2: on those days where they don't see you, know that 646 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: we always see you. 647 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 3: You're always seeing and you're not hidden. 648 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, make me cry. Minda but that's okay. Thank you 649 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: so much for sharing your beautiful work with with Brown Ambition, 650 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: Ba Fam. You have to go to mindeharts dot com 651 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: and check out all of her incredible work. What else 652 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: can we tell people about you? Go pick up the memo. 653 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: It's called the Memo What Women of Color Need to 654 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: Notice Secure seat at the Table. Also, we talked about 655 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: the Rite Within and your newest book. You are more 656 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: than magic Mindeheart's Thank you so much for joining Brown Ambition. Hey, 657 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: ba Fam, we could not do this show without your 658 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: support or the support of our team behind the scenes. 659 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: The Brown Ambition podcast is produced by Cumulus Podcast Network. 660 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: It's edited by the wonderful Emani Crosby and produced by 661 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: Tanya Bustos. Dennistimplinsky is our in house tech guru, and 662 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: I am Bandy Woodrid Santos your co host, and I 663 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: will see y'all next week six