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Speaker 1: Clean your Gun, Janable where the uncollective show Colin Hunters

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Speaker 1: New and all uncollective show with thanks or fakes and

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Speaker 1: opinions are subjective. You're listening to the collecting. Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome to episode one seventy four where I am completely

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Speaker 1: and totally faking my enthusiasm because I am very, very tired,

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Speaker 1: but I am joined by Phil the engineer. Phil, how

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Speaker 1: are you, sir? I'm doing great. You said you're faking

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Speaker 1: your enthusiasm. I I honestly don't sense any enthusiasm, real

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Speaker 1: or fake. So you're doing a job. Oh I'm doing

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Speaker 1: a bad job. Well, I'm totally talking like this in

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Speaker 1: a very monotone way, so you do not hear the

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Speaker 1: pure desperation and vocal fry that's happening on my end

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Speaker 1: right now, because we are on day what Ford van falls?

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Speaker 1: And what day of the Turkey treck are we on?

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Speaker 1: I don't know what day it is and I definitely

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Speaker 1: can't count to ten at this point. What what day

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Speaker 1: are we on? It's a Monday, and oh, I don't

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Speaker 1: know twelve maybe ten could be anywhere between five and

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Speaker 1: twelve and three, and yeah, maybe we started we technically

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Speaker 1: started on the tenth and it is now. Uh, it's

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Speaker 1: a nine nine days on the Turkey Trek, nine days

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Speaker 1: of glorious, glorious turkey hunting. I am currently sitting in

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Speaker 1: an unknown town in Nebraska where we are on the

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Speaker 1: third whistle stop of the Turkey Trek one. I guess

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Speaker 1: we say truck for turkeys? Is that right? For truck

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Speaker 1: for turkeys? With First Light and nwt F where we

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Speaker 1: are trying to we're doing like a telethon in a

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Speaker 1: non live format to raise funds through memberships for n

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Speaker 1: w t F. We are nine days into that telethon. Uh,

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Speaker 1: no one has known it's going on to this point,

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Speaker 1: so it's a bit of a backwards move. But we

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Speaker 1: got four Van Fawson here who is the c are

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Speaker 1: of conservation at First Light, and he's gonna update us

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Speaker 1: on exactly what we need to do, and then we're

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Speaker 1: gonna tell you some stories for from our trip thus far.

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Speaker 1: And Phil, you all you really need to do is

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Speaker 1: sit back and get excited for your upcoming first ever

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Speaker 1: turkey hunt. Uh that's your only job herebody, Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: I'll do it. Well, I'll make you proud. What I'd

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Speaker 1: like for you to do in the in the interim

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Speaker 1: is get up at three thirty in the morning and

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Speaker 1: drive around for an hour and a half and then

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Speaker 1: walk around in the woods for about an hour and

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Speaker 1: then go home. Just a practice for turkey hunting uh

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Speaker 1: here in a couple of weeks. But that sounds like

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Speaker 1: it would be a terrible training montage in a movie. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: I would like you to run across the beach with

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Speaker 1: a turkey decoy on your head, but please please Anyway,

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Speaker 1: Ford van Foss, before we get into any of the stories,

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Speaker 1: the laughs, the miss the mishaps from the Turkey tour,

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Speaker 1: tell people our content would have debuted yesterday, which is Monday.

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Speaker 1: This is Tuesday, um, but we have a bunch of

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Speaker 1: content coming out for a very important reason. If you

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Speaker 1: want to tell everybody exactly what's going on. Yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: just we're starting the documentation of aforementioned track for Turkeys

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Speaker 1: Monday on First Light's Instagram story. We'll be hitting post too,

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Speaker 1: but basically we'll be telling the story of the trip

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Speaker 1: uh whilst driving folks to sign up for NWTFUM for memberships.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to hit a thousand memberships by the end

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Speaker 1: of the month. That's sort of the goal here and

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Speaker 1: and to do so, we're ripping around the West, hitting

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Speaker 1: four different states, visiting some habitat projects, and killing turkeys.

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Speaker 1: We have done all of that UM this week and

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Speaker 1: last week, and we have roughly the rest of this

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Speaker 1: this week to go. We're in Nebraska, We're gonna be

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Speaker 1: in Wyoming visit a habitat project up there. We just

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Speaker 1: got done hunting some beautiful w m as in different

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Speaker 1: places in Nebraska where n WTF has supported and done

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Speaker 1: habitat work. I'll even work working with a guy named

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Speaker 1: Luke Becauzak. I always get everyone's last name wrong. That's

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Speaker 1: probably nowhere near how you say his last name, UM,

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Speaker 1: but Luke is NBTF Forrester. We've also been hanging out

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Speaker 1: with Jared mcjunkin, who works for the NBC on a

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Speaker 1: regional biologist level UM and really been learning about what

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Speaker 1: they do, learning about why it's important, and hunting some

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Speaker 1: of the places that that they've worked to help improve

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Speaker 1: in terms of habitat, especially UM in this area of

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Speaker 1: Nebraska and other areas of states that we've haunted. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's been cool to learn about not only UM,

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Speaker 1: you know turkey hunting out West in great detail. As

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Speaker 1: as we'll tell you some stories. It also what the

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Speaker 1: n WTF does so very seriously, as we talked about

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Speaker 1: conservation on this show, we have Shane Mahoney coming up,

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Speaker 1: the great and powerful Shane Mahoney coming up for a

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Speaker 1: good interview about some of these subjects and about what

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Speaker 1: conservation really means across the landscape of you know, as

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Speaker 1: as shame might put a human existence or human relationships wildlife. UM.

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Speaker 1: This is just one instance of UM an opportunity for

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Speaker 1: everybody out there to go to First Lights Instagram. You'll

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Speaker 1: see Instagram stories that started the yesterday that continue today,

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Speaker 1: and we'll go on throughout the week. UM of us

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Speaker 1: hunting forward. Myself, Jonah Bell and Max ben'z have been

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Speaker 1: filming us. We've had, as they aforementioned folks from dan WTF,

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Speaker 1: We've got Kevin Harlander, who, as I sit in a

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Speaker 1: hotel room, is out right now crawling around in the

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Speaker 1: snow trying to kill a turkey by himself. I might

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Speaker 1: add he's pretty hardcore. UM. But it's been a joint

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Speaker 1: effort between n WTF and First Light and Meat Eater

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Speaker 1: UM to kill some turkeys and also raise awareness for

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Speaker 1: the fact that memberships are down and banquets are not

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Speaker 1: as easy to put together for NBTF as they have

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Speaker 1: been in the past, and so this is all our

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Speaker 1: way to drive attention for that. And um, I think

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Speaker 1: it's uh, it's we're gonna talk about how it's gone.

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Speaker 1: But for what would you how would you handicap where

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Speaker 1: we are right now in our truck for turkeys? Give

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Speaker 1: you mean the update of of how things are going? Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think they're going really well given the

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Speaker 1: weather conditions that we have been dealt. Uh, it has

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Speaker 1: been wintry to say the least, I would say, and

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Speaker 1: snow and blow and cold and all that stuff is

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Speaker 1: not what you think about necessarily when it comes to

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Speaker 1: turkey hunting, and certainly not what you think about when

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Speaker 1: it comes to successful turkey hunting. So the fact that

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Speaker 1: we've killed seven I think, yeah, we'll call it. We

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Speaker 1: can call it eight because Luke four mention and Forester

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Speaker 1: from the NPTF shot one yesterday with us, So we'll

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Speaker 1: call it eight. Yeah, I think I think that sounds right.

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Speaker 1: So anyhow, all things considered, I mean, have we filled

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Speaker 1: every single tag we had. Uh no, but have we

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Speaker 1: filled some tags in some incredibly inclement conditions. Yes, so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't complain, Man, I think it's coming off well. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've learned. We've learned a ton about the n WTF

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Speaker 1: hanging out with guys like Jared mcjunkin, um, who is

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Speaker 1: a wealth of knowledge. They spend their lives around turkeys.

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Speaker 1: Just to be able to hang out with them is

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Speaker 1: enough for me. And yeah, we've we had a great

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Speaker 1: morning yesterday. You guys will eventually see the tail end

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Speaker 1: of our Nebraska trip. We had an amazing encounter with

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Speaker 1: a big tom here in the piney bridges of Nebraska

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Speaker 1: and got some excellent footage of that time. Yeah, Max,

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Speaker 1: Max sent me a clip. It looked straight Planet Earth.

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Speaker 1: It is wild. Um, yeah, it's absolutely wild. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so some slow motion footage, some some a bird dance

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Speaker 1: in the decoys. He came in on the string from

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Speaker 1: a couple hundred yards away down a hill up the

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Speaker 1: other side, across the fence, which you know turkeys tend

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Speaker 1: not to want to do. He did, and Ford knows

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Speaker 1: that from his experience in the in South Dakota. Across

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Speaker 1: the fence came right in the decoys. We let him

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Speaker 1: do a little dance and make a little love and

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Speaker 1: then we ended it with the t ss uh federal

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Speaker 1: premun tss real quickly there. But the day before Kevin

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Speaker 1: Harlander got a couple of birds, and a couple of

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Speaker 1: days prior to that, Ford Van Faws and you and

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Speaker 1: I doubled a joyous, joyous moment. I think folks will

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Speaker 1: see and perhaps think I overreacted. But when you've been

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Speaker 1: hunting turkeys and blowing snow for at that point four

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Speaker 1: or five days and you finally connect with not one

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Speaker 1: but two birds and in so doing tag out in

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Speaker 1: South Dakota, one gets excited. They to get excited. Now

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Speaker 1: I've told Phil this uh, and I will reiterate that.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure the psychological things that happened, but whenever,

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Speaker 1: and it's really just be played the game of pursuing turkeys.

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Speaker 1: You get up early, you run hard, you sit out

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Speaker 1: in the snow, you freeze your ass off, and when

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Speaker 1: you finally have success, everything is better in your life,

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Speaker 1: like the sky is blue or whatever. You know. Fast

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Speaker 1: food hamburger. We ended up being coerced to eat that

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Speaker 1: evening was delicious. The bed is softer. Um. Everything is

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Speaker 1: sweeter at this point, partly, I think because you've won

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Speaker 1: the game. In the game that Fordnite played for five

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Speaker 1: straight days, uh, in two different states and in high

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Speaker 1: thirty wind, gusts, blowing snow, uh, extreme cold, frozen calls,

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Speaker 1: frozen everything. Um, did a lot of drive and did

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Speaker 1: a lot of walking. And to finally get to the

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Speaker 1: point where we're in Southakote and we got two birds

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Speaker 1: on the ground. Ah, you have every right to. I

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Speaker 1: feel like you fell onto the ground. I would say

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Speaker 1: laid you laid upon the excitement and excitement and kicked

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Speaker 1: into the air like a bicycle kick. I remember the

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Speaker 1: bicycle kick, but it it doesn't seem unlikely. It was

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Speaker 1: very I think it. I remember there there being some

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Speaker 1: sort of kicking. But we're man. We were excited, and

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Speaker 1: I guess the story goes that it can be done

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Speaker 1: in the and if you're out west hunting early season,

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Speaker 1: like we were on opening days some of the western states,

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Speaker 1: it can. Turkey hunting can be very successful in snow.

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Speaker 1: It can be very successful uh in rain or wind.

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Speaker 1: But boy, it makes it a whole ton harder. The

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Speaker 1: success we've had here on our third stop of the

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Speaker 1: turkey tour has been aided by some warm weather days

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Speaker 1: which has now switched today. I'm looking out the window.

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Speaker 1: It's muddy and snowy and windy again. Um. But we've

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Speaker 1: we've had some warm other days, some fired up birds,

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Speaker 1: and that's where you know, really the beautiful moments are

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Speaker 1: getting come. But you can it can you can scratch

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Speaker 1: out if you're if you're out there right now listening

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Speaker 1: and it's not great weather where you're at, Um, you

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Speaker 1: can scratch them out. You just gotta stay you gotta

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Speaker 1: stay on it, gotta stay persistent. You gotta spend the

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Speaker 1: time fortnite. We definitely spent the time well, I mean

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Speaker 1: talking scratch out. We were fortunate to have rick hunting

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Speaker 1: of fish hunt fight gear um and uh at our

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Speaker 1: at our first stop there in Montana and Katie Michetti

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Speaker 1: from Modern Huntsman's whose name I probably also mispronounced, but

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Speaker 1: they were able to kill two birds in I mean

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Speaker 1: borderline white out conditions. Um. And that was just full

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Speaker 1: on grit, borderline spot and stock turkey hunting. But recularly

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Speaker 1: saved the day in Montana with those with those two

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Speaker 1: birds filling some tags. Uh and UH turning turning the

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Speaker 1: frown upside down on some real inclement weather. Yep, And

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Speaker 1: that that brings to mind a couple of things we

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Speaker 1: need to address with the audience. You'll see it in

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Speaker 1: the footage. I'm sure um Ford Ford passed up a

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Speaker 1: jake on the first day. Uh, do you want to

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Speaker 1: just just talk about that a little bit forward and

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Speaker 1: what it was like to have me give you ship

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Speaker 1: for so long? About it? No, I mean everyone, I

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Speaker 1: would say, gave me proverbial feces over it. Um. You

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Speaker 1: know we're starting this this twelve or whatever day hunt.

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Speaker 1: We get there, the weather is lovely. We're here in

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Speaker 1: birds um, and we strike up a bird and you know,

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Speaker 1: it sounds a little pubic, or like it hasn't gone

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Speaker 1: through puberty. I would say, I guess what I'm looking for,

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Speaker 1: and pubic, Pubic's not the right words that should not

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Speaker 1: gone through puberty yet. So anyhow, we get in, we

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Speaker 1: set up. Jake sort of gobbles into view with another jake.

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Speaker 1: I put the gun barrel over it, and I look

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Speaker 1: at its neck closely, and it has a tiny little

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Speaker 1: spurt of beard, and I don't shoot it because I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking to myself, this is a giant turkey trip. Here

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Speaker 1: we are, We're great and powerful turkey hunters. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to shoot this jake on the first day, and

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Speaker 1: I don't and I get back and as you stated,

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Speaker 1: she was immediately thrown my way, and in fact, I

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Speaker 1: would come to regret it, ah very much so given

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Speaker 1: the weather. I mean it was like on I passed

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Speaker 1: this Jacob and on a dime, the wind started blowing

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Speaker 1: forty mile an hour. The weather just went to hell,

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Speaker 1: uh and we struggled to get bird. So I a

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Speaker 1: hundred percent that should have shot the jake. And I

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Speaker 1: would like to emphasize that I am not a person

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Speaker 1: that usually passes jake's you know, I'm I'm always the

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Speaker 1: guy looking to kill the spike. But yeah, uh you know,

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Speaker 1: here we are doing this big content trip and I

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Speaker 1: was just inflated about it. I think I thought I

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Speaker 1: had to be someone I wasn't um. Alright, it sounds

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Speaker 1: like you've done some self reflection on this. Yeah, well

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Speaker 1: we had lots of time to think about it, trudging

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Speaker 1: around the snow not killing turkeys, and so Yescent should

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Speaker 1: have filled that type even more so because, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: in Montana's an nonresident. I had a general tag and

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Speaker 1: a Region seven tag, two tags in my pocket. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and absolutely should have filled one of them on the jake.

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Speaker 1: But uh, you know you'll live and you'll learn. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: here in the hunting Collective, we forgive and we forget,

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Speaker 1: and we'll tell a story about these two times we shot.

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Speaker 1: But we definitely you're right about this though. We We

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Speaker 1: arrived in Montana too beautiful weather, and literally as soon

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Speaker 1: as I arrived and started getting my tent together and

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Speaker 1: get all my gear out, the wind started to blow

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Speaker 1: and it did not stop blowing until we were blowing

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Speaker 1: the hell out of the state down to South Dakota. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we're we're licking our wounds headed down to South Dakota.

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Speaker 1: You know we we thought you get inflated. You think

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Speaker 1: you have all this confidence, you have all these goals.

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Speaker 1: I'm over here throwing out you know, double digitant numbers

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Speaker 1: of turkeys that we're gonna get and how if we

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Speaker 1: if we fill a tag here, where do we go next?

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Speaker 1: Thinking about all these positive outcomes, and we got our

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Speaker 1: butts flop pretty good there. Other than as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: Rick Hutton, who is a bit of a turkey, I'm

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Speaker 1: not Gonna says. He's a sharp character. So he's not

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Speaker 1: a savant, but he's a master. He's a good turkey killer.

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Speaker 1: Him and him and old Steph Morris, Um, you know

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Speaker 1: how to slay turkeys, in particular in Montana, it would appear. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so Phil you, Um, you've heard all about the Jake's.

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Speaker 1: You heard from Tony Peterson that he likes to shoot him.

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Speaker 1: You've kind of heard the self reflection afford here. Where

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Speaker 1: do you stand currently on Jake's in terms of your

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Speaker 1: first hunt? I don't know. There's some sort of like

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Speaker 1: weird self pride thing that probably I I don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I would. I'm sure I would in

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Speaker 1: the moment, but thinking about it right now, I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I don't know if are you

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Speaker 1: gonna go okay, all right? What if I'm like, shoot

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Speaker 1: the Jake, Shoot the Jake, Phil, shoot the Jake? Or you?

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Speaker 1: Will you be like quiet quiet, o'brieniod If I'm on

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Speaker 1: my my my last, my last limb with you, I'm

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Speaker 1: just tired and fed up and I want things to

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Speaker 1: end quickly, then you'll shoot. I'm looking forward to this

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Speaker 1: man I'm looking forward to hunt. Every time I post

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Speaker 1: anything about turkeys, I get about a dozen d ms

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Speaker 1: about like why didn't you bring Phil? What's wrong with it? Asshole?

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Speaker 1: Um So anyhow, Yes, we eventually made our way to

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Speaker 1: South Dakota. We had a couple of of snowy, cold

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Speaker 1: days there and then on the morning of day five.

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Speaker 1: Is this correct there's a day four? It would have

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Speaker 1: been day four of hunting. I would say it was

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Speaker 1: our second full day in the code. I think, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think day five total. Day five, we've got two

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Speaker 1: turkeys on the ground, but nothing for me and Ford.

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Speaker 1: We've hunted our butts off. Ford goes in and roost

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Speaker 1: some birds. The night before we had been out that morning,

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Speaker 1: the wind was blown, it was cold, no gobbles, a

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Speaker 1: couple of gobbles right off the roost, and then will

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Speaker 1: be completely silent, And it was a feeling like it

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Speaker 1: was going to be a real struggle to scratch out

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Speaker 1: of turkey and the time that we had to do it.

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Speaker 1: But we sidled up to the roost. We we I

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Speaker 1: knew that these birds would gobble in the roost if

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Speaker 1: they got fired up. When they hit the ground, they

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Speaker 1: basically shut up for most of the day. You might

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Speaker 1: hear a gobbler two at them for the for the

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Speaker 1: entire time that they're on their feet during any point

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Speaker 1: to stay. They're miserable, just like we are. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're not warm, they're not half be they're not content,

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Speaker 1: They're miserable. They're trying to get out of the wind.

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Speaker 1: They're hunkering down, they're getting in the timber um wherever

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Speaker 1: they can. And so our strategy was to get up

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Speaker 1: to the roost tree as close as we felt safe

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Speaker 1: that they wouldn't see us, get in there, put the

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Speaker 1: decoys out, back off, and be quiet and listen for

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Speaker 1: the fly down. Well, we got quite the as you'll

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Speaker 1: see on the content at first, like Instagram stories, we

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Speaker 1: got quite the gobble gobble show. In the morning, there

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Speaker 1: was I don't know how many birds lightening up in

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Speaker 1: the tree, you know, maybe a hundred twenty yards up

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Speaker 1: the ridge from us. There are some some hens in

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Speaker 1: there yelping right that we felt like we're behind, like

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Speaker 1: we were literally on the wrong side of of the hens.

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Speaker 1: The gobblers in between us and the hens on the

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Speaker 1: other side of the ridge. So it didn't seem like

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Speaker 1: a great opportunity to start off, but the birds were

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Speaker 1: fired up, and when they flew down, I wasn't quite

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Speaker 1: sure exactly where they flew down, But as soon as

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Speaker 1: they kind of he heard him fly down, a gobb

329
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Speaker 1: will lit up way in the distance, further in the distance.

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Speaker 1: Then we wanted and I looked at Ford him like,

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Speaker 1: I think they I think they flew down yards in

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Speaker 1: the other direction. Yeah, man, I mean when I heard

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Speaker 1: that hand on sort of the far side of the rise,

334
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,040
Speaker 1: my heart sank a little. I figured she had just

335
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,679
Speaker 1: dragged him off the total opposite direction, but it was

336
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Speaker 1: so far off that I did a part of me also,

337
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,639
Speaker 1: I thought it was a separate turkey, which in fact

338
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 1: was the case. Yeah, it was the case. And so

339
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Speaker 1: it wasn't too long before. I mean, it was still

340
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Speaker 1: in the you know, it was still probably prior to

341
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Speaker 1: shooting light. When they flew down and they're up the ridge,

342
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Speaker 1: they actually flew there's four what four times was it

343
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Speaker 1: four tims yep um four times fly down and hit

344
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,120
Speaker 1: the ground. I couldn't see him, but Ford could. One

345
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,240
Speaker 1: of our camera guys, Jonah, could see him. They fly down,

346
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 1: they hop up on a log there, Sauce trutting together. Um.

347
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Speaker 1: Eventually Ford gets an eye on them. Eventually I can

348
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 1: hear him spitting and drumming up there. No gobbles, no nothing.

349
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Speaker 1: My strategy was as soon as they hit the ground

350
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Speaker 1: to start calling, you know, and just just kind of

351
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,679
Speaker 1: very light, almost like tree yelps, like very contented yelps,

352
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,119
Speaker 1: nothing excited, because these turkeys when they hit the ground,

353
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Speaker 1: they're just trying to get warm, fine shelter um. And

354
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,200
Speaker 1: so we weren't going to really be aggressive with calling,

355
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Speaker 1: so we just did I did some like clucking, some

356
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Speaker 1: you know, some turn and directed the yelping to behind me,

357
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,919
Speaker 1: and these birds kind of slowly I mean and I

358
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,159
Speaker 1: mean slowly snake their way in. They only had to

359
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,880
Speaker 1: go one hundred yards or so. Oh yeah, they kind

360
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,879
Speaker 1: of they did sort of the move left, move back

361
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,920
Speaker 1: right scenario kind of you know, danced at maybe seventy

362
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 1: yards back and forth, and then sort of went around

363
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 1: some dead fall and sort of started the dump and

364
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 1: dumping towards us slowly. Yeah, and they only came out

365
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 1: into view the first time he went down this little

366
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Speaker 1: cut and there was timber between us and the turkeys.

367
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Speaker 1: But there, you know, they pop out of probably sixty

368
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: yards and they're just slowly working their way. No goblin.

369
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Speaker 1: There's one dominant Tom and probably three subdominant Tom's two

370
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,919
Speaker 1: year olds, i would say, and one strutter. All the

371
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 1: others were kind of just popping around looking nervous, you know,

372
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,959
Speaker 1: not looking like the regular fired up, happy turkeys were

373
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 1: used to in the spring. And they kind of slowly

374
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 1: work their way down towards our decoys within about fifty yards.

375
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Speaker 1: And as I'm at this point, the understanding of the

376
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 1: mindset is that I wanted to kill a turkey desperately.

377
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: We all wanted to get on the board desperately. It's

378
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 1: been five days. So I kind of had the opportunity

379
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 1: to shoot the first bird that came down before we

380
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 1: got in the decoys, before we had the opportunity to

381
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 1: bring the other three birds down. My thought process was, Man,

382
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,679
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take a chance at this and see if

383
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 1: the all four of them will coming to the decoys.

384
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: They've already committed pretty far, but they weren't fired up,

385
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,399
Speaker 1: they weren't coming to the decoys. They were just kind

386
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,880
Speaker 1: of filtering our way with some interest in what we

387
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: were doing. And what we think happened is they saw

388
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,120
Speaker 1: the decoys with snow all over them, and that kind

389
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: of boogered him, and they all four of them started

390
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 1: to walk away immediately, so as yeah, that's my guess,

391
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 1: and that you know, they probably what were they probably

392
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty yards from the decoys, and yeah, I

393
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 1: mean it was at that point the system was moving in,

394
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 1: it was snowing hard, and there was probably a quarter

395
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 1: to a half may just snow on the decoys that

396
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: had accumulated just in the you know, thirty for you

397
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 1: whatever minutes since we've been sitting there. Yeah. Yeah, So

398
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: we just figured that that really they weren't comfortable anyway,

399
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 1: They weren't really all that fired up. Um, although there

400
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: was one time that continued to strut throughout, I think

401
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 1: only just just really as a dominant the show of

402
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: dominance over these other birds. But yeah, they were walking away,

403
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 1: And in that moment that they're walking away, I'm thinking,

404
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 1: I can't, no way, there's no way that these birds,

405
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: there's no way they're going to walk away from us.

406
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: My heart sank when I started to see the rear

407
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: ends of them kind of heading away over over into

408
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 1: the distance. Yeah. I get stressed out now thinking about it,

409
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: even though we killed two birds, I get stressed out

410
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 1: at watching they're just walking away from us, are like

411
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 1: sixty yards, are all bunched up, I can't shoot. Now,

412
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,199
Speaker 1: I'm thinking I totally messed us up. I should have

413
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: just shot the first time they're walking away. I shouldn't

414
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 1: have tried to get at all. I should have just

415
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: scratched out the turkey that we could get out of

416
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: this deal. And so I just thought, well, I'm gonna

417
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 1: have to like give a couple of clocks or something

418
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: to see if they'll turn. So I gave up a

419
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 1: just a couple of like desperate clucks, and the first

420
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: bird kind of turned and they started. They didn't come

421
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: back to us, but they started going up the way

422
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: they came. Yeah, they retraced their steps enough. Yeah they didn't.

423
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you hunt turkeys like this, you

424
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: don't really know what they're gonna do. They're not fired

425
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: up to charge of deco voice. They're just kind of

426
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: uh feeling out the space, I guess, in a weird way.

427
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: So they turned around. The first bird gets crosses U

428
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: into an opening. At this point, it's on, I'm not

429
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 1: letting him get anywhere. I shoot. He drops the other

430
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 1: birds kind of go immediately run up the hill. Ford

431
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: shoots boom, dead two turkeys on the ground. I think

432
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: you had to put a second shot on him, but

433
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: that's not uncommon. Yeah, you know, in retrospect, I don't

434
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: even remember why I shot again. Necessarily my head. It

435
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 1: just it did happen, um and hopefully it was necessary unclear,

436
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 1: Yeah it was, it was necessary. So we got two

437
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: top miammediate reaction was like relief and just we got

438
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 1: it in an incredibly difficult situation. Uh. Ford's relief or

439
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: forwards reaction was pure joy, as we explained, but man,

440
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: it was. It's the best feel in the world. You know,

441
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: we all know that when you struggle to get something,

442
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 1: when you finally get it, when you work hard and

443
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: you finally get it, Uh, it means all the more

444
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: so that that that felt good and and uh those

445
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: were that was our Turkey success story prior to coming

446
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: here to Nebraska where we've had some some additional success.

447
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: But it's uh, man, it feels good. Oh it was awesome, man.

448
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: And you know the other thing ben to be honest,

449
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 1: this storm system was had opened up on us. It's

450
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: snow and I don't know inch an hour, but it

451
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: was pushing, pushing, that rate coming down hard, and we're

452
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: supposed to get you know, they were calling for I

453
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: don't know, like four to eight inches and you know

454
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: that just done. I wasn't feeling optimistic about our chances

455
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: kind of going forward from that. Um. Hell, Ben, you

456
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: were talking about how we were gonna we were going

457
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: to track these turkeys. That was becoming our next strategy

458
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: was you know, with with four inches of snow, we

459
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: we're just gonna start tracking turkeys through uh through the area,

460
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: which I mean we would have done, I suppose, but

461
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: it was it's not how you draw it up in

462
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: terms of turkey hunting conditions. So I was I'll be honest.

463
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: I was excited too that we were able to seal

464
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 1: the deal before that thing really and that storm had

465
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: really laid down some snow. Yeah, because it eventually that

466
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: was last Thursday and it's now Thursday and all day Friday,

467
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: almost two in that country. So if we wouldn't have

468
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: I would have got those two burs down when we did,

469
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: we would have had two incredibly hard days of hunting.

470
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: And other folks that we met that were you know,

471
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: folks like we mentioned earlier we're hunting, didn't have any luck,

472
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: you know, and on places where they're really used to

473
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: having a quick turn turkey hunt, you know, with a

474
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: lot of birds in the area. So yeah, that's just

475
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: one of the many stories from the trek for turkeys. UM.

476
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: If you want to hear all of the stories, every

477
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: single one of the stories, then you've got to go

478
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: over there the First Lights instagram that's at First Light

479
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: Hunting and you'll see all the stories. There's gonna be

480
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: plenty of swipe ups to get you to this n

481
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: WTF website link for can can you tell people what's

482
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: going to be at that link? Pos there's some pretty

483
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: cool things if you sign up for membership at that link,

484
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: there's some pretty cool things that you can get. So

485
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:25,479
Speaker 1: if you sign up for a n WTF membership National

486
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: Wild Turk Federation membershipt um, you will also be at

487
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: entered to win um a little package we put together

488
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: including uh some on X max memberships, weather be eighteen

489
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: I shotgun, which is the shotgun that both Ben and

490
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: I and Harlander at least and probably more in our

491
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: party are running right now. And uh, if all that's

492
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: not good enough, you'll be entered to win a first

493
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 1: Light kit styled over Zoom by Steve Ronnella himself. So

494
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: Steve will hop on a zoom call with you. He'll say,

495
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 1: you know, what are you hunting? Where you're hunting? What

496
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: are you doing? Okay, okay, this is what you need.

497
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: You need this base layer, this mid layer, these pants. Um.

498
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: He'll build that kit with you and then first Light

499
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: will mail it right to your door. That's beautiful, man. Well,

500
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: like like we've been saying, this is this is our

501
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: way of putting together a telephone. Telephone for the NWTF. UM,

502
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: you'll also hear the aforementioned stories about conservation projects and

503
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: important work that the NBTF does in this area. But

504
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: it's not just this area. Yeah, I mean I think

505
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: that's and that was sort of that's that's a part

506
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: of this man. I have one of my proverbial I

507
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: guess access to grind or dynamics. I think is interesting.

508
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: We talked a ton about conservation in our world in

509
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: the hunting industry, UM, and that's all good. But I

510
00:28:54,320 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: really enjoy seeing what conservation is. And by that I mean, okay, well, yeah,

511
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: we want to give dollars n WTF. Well what are

512
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: those dollars doing. And in this circumstance, we're illustrating where

513
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: that money goes. Right, it goes to UH spring head

514
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: exclosures in the Barrelage Mountains of Wyoming, it goes to

515
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: a riparian area exclosure in UM in the Custer National

516
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: Forest of Montana. It's going to timberstand improvement projects in

517
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: Nebraska and in the south and in South Dakota. UM.

518
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: So you know, we're we're getting in there. We're talking

519
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: to these guys Jason, Jared Um, et cetera, and walking

520
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: these projects, learn about what they cost, how they were

521
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: put together, all that good stuff, and and kind of

522
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: showing folks where their money goes when they give too.

523
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: Conservation groups and in this circumstance, the National Wild Turkey Federation. Yeah,

524
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: And like I said, we got to meet Luke, a

525
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: local forester here, and he told us all about how

526
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: he were and cooperation. His position is a cooperative position

527
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: with UM, all these agencies and n WTF. And he

528
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: works with the Nebraska Forest Service, Nebraska Game in Parks,

529
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: the U. S. Forest Service, and they administer these projects together.

530
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: So it is a cooperative approach to conservation and it's

531
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: easy to just say the word. As Ford mentioned, they're

532
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: kind of broadly understand, um, what what goes into conservation.

533
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: But then you start talking to people that actually do

534
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: it for a living and what they go through and

535
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: the grant writing processes that they go through and how

536
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: they get the funding and how their jobs come together.

537
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: Then you really start to understand the scope and measure

538
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: of the work that's done. So Um, when you're walking

539
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: around some of these pieces of public ground or even

540
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: private ground in some in many cases with the n WTF,

541
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,239
Speaker 1: you can really appreciate what that habitat looks like. You know,

542
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: how thin it is underneath those pines, how much habitat

543
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: there is for turkeys to use there wouldn't be other,

544
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: how much less fuel there is for burns in the area,

545
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: so we don't wipe out habitat all together in some instances.

546
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: So all that is extremely important. And if this sounds

547
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: like a telephone for NWTF, well it damn well is one.

548
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,239
Speaker 1: And so go over and follow the instructions at first Light,

549
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: doc well first Light's Instagram page and help him out

550
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: thirty five bucks. You can win a bunch of really

551
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: cool stuff. Um, trust me, trust us. It goes to

552
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: UM a great cause and the cause that we talked

553
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: about here quite often, which is Turkey hunting. And as

554
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: we move forward in the year, the New Hunter and

555
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: the last couple episodes of this year program before we

556
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: were off the air for good, there's no more important

557
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: time to be talking about it. So thank you for

558
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: Van Fausten. Um. We'll keep everybody updated next week about

559
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: how this whole thing ended, and uh, we'll be yelling

560
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: at you try to get us to there's a thousand

561
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: memberships by what do you see the end of the month.

562
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: Ward that's a goal and April, I mean the trip

563
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: will be wrapping up a little before that. But it's

564
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: nice round numbered, uh to push h Like I said,

565
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: a thousand folks to sign up for the old n

566
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: w t F. Yeah, a lot of people have reached

567
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: out as we announced the end of a hunting collective

568
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: and a couple of a couple of weeks to ask

569
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: what they can do and to say thank you. If

570
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: you really want to say thank you to me, to us,

571
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: this is a good way to do it. Ah, this

572
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: is the perfect way to do it in fact, So UM,

573
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: I appreciate you for Van Flawston and Uh, I don't

574
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: mean to follow you up with the shame mahoney, but

575
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. And no one remembers before Danson,

576
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: No man, Thanks for having me on, Ben, it's been

577
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: it's been a blast hunting turkeys out there. It really

578
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: has been tough as it's been. It's always good to

579
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: chase them around. Yeah, there's never a better day than

580
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: a day in the Turkey Woods, success or failure. So

581
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna turn it over to a great conversation about

582
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: possession in the hunting world, in our need for possession

583
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: and what that all means with I said about five

584
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: words during this interview, and that's how I like it

585
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: because the rest of them came from the great and

586
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: powerful Shane mahoney. But before we get to Shane, UM,

587
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: we had a little audio difficulty and during the interview,

588
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: I did not notice that the audio is a little

589
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: bit choppy on Shane's and fill the engineers fixing her

590
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: up as best we can. We apologize for that issue. Um,

591
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: you can still hear Shane. It's just not the best.

592
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: We try to get the best audio we can in

593
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: these remote interviews and this one could be better. Um,

594
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: hopefully you still get to hear his message and it

595
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: comes through loud and clear. Please now joined Shane Mahoney.

596
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: Shane Mahoney, we had to hit record on this podcast

597
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: because we forgot. I forgot and you we were having

598
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: a great conversation as we tend to always do. Um So,

599
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: I'm glad we're recording and welcome back to the podcast,

600
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: sir well facts bet, it's great to be here. We

601
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: always have a lot of fun tonight. I always enjoy it,

602
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm delighted and anxious to see where our

603
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: where our pathway will take with this time. Absolutely, it's

604
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: always uh, it's always an adventure anytime, whether you and

605
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: I are having beers at the Wild Cheap Convention or

606
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: podcasting and in across the across the world. Really in

607
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: this case, um well, so I wanted to start by

608
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: just normally I thank everyone at the end, but I

609
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: wanted to to start by just thanking you. Um. I

610
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: know I told you via text that are our little

611
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: show here is coming to an end. Uh in about

612
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,919
Speaker 1: three more weeks will be the last episode of our show.

613
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: We've had a good three year run. Moving on to

614
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: do other things and and focus on other things, and

615
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: in both the meat either company and in my career.

616
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: So I want to just thank you as I start

617
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: to reflect on this is a hundred and seventy some

618
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: odd episodes of hour long conversations. When I reflect on

619
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: on all those conversations, I look back, you know, maybe

620
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: most finally on your contributions and helping us all learn

621
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: about the North American model of conservation and our relationship

622
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: to animals. UM. I think everyone is always inspired by

623
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,959
Speaker 1: your words and and so I just wanted to start

624
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: by saying thank you for for participating. UM. I'll probably

625
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: be very more reflective in the next few weeks, and

626
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: I normally am, but UM, I've definitely been thinking that

627
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: the last couple of days. I just wanted to say

628
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: thank you. Well. It's very kunny man. I appreciate you

629
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: saying so. You know, it's easy when you're having a

630
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: conversation with being wants to think about these things. UM.

631
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: There's as everything around is constantly reminds us in one

632
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: way or another, relationships with nature m are fundamentally the

633
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: most important things we have exceed supersede all of them

634
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:59,760
Speaker 1: issues because without the natural world, we would never have existed.

635
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: In about the natural world simply cann So I think

636
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: it's um. You know, it has always been a great

637
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: way for storytelling to emerge, talking of nature, no matter who.

638
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: And it's part of what makes us admire people who

639
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: feel comfortable in nature so much, whether that's a a

640
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: rural matt family or a man and woman and their

641
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 1: children comfortable around forces and living with wildlife. It's fishermen

642
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: who are comfortable on the ocean or um. It's a

643
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 1: it's a it's an unending it's an unending louver kind

644
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: of possibilities, but one when one starts to talk about

645
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: animals and animal nature and so on. So a pleasure

646
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: all the time, and I look forward to this one

647
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, absolutely no, as you as you as

648
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: you're speaking, there I a question pops into my mind that,

649
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: you know, the first time we talked on this podcast,

650
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,479
Speaker 1: you you know, talked about your upbringing, and you talked

651
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: about the way you were raised and kind of how

652
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: that shaped you. If you were to if you were

653
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 1: to meet someone who had no idea about the natural world,

654
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: if if you know, an extraterrestrial came down and ask you,

655
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: how is it that the natural world has shaped your life?

656
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: And got you too where you are today. How would

657
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: you how would you articulate that? Because I think that's

658
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: an important, you know, foundational moment for me when I

659
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: heard you, you know, explaining that the first time. But um,

660
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: i'd love everybody to hear just in its its raw form. Well,

661
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 1: I think I would. I would. I would ask them

662
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: probably a question first, how do they think they came

663
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: to be? And undoubtedly, depending on their civilization, uh, they

664
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: would have either some kind of very empirical, scientific, so

665
00:37:55,120 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 1: to speak, explanation of their existence, or they would have

666
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: have some kind of mythological notion. But no matter which

667
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: explanation they gave, it would involve outside forces. They were

668
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: not the epicenter of their own creation. Of course. Originally

669
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: they had to arise from within some greater things. That's

670
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: the universe, whether that's the planet, you know, whether it's

671
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: the margins of the oceans or wherever it might be.

672
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: And so I would explain to them that what we

673
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: call nature is that thing that is what gave us life,

674
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: that is what designed us, that is what to the

675
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,959
Speaker 1: greatest extent of all things, far greater than our own

676
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:46,720
Speaker 1: personal genetics, etc. It's greater than all things in setting

677
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: our expectations, our experiences, our dreams are physical attributes, our longevity,

678
00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: our mating systems, our relationships with our families. I mean

679
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: that this outside thing made us what we are. They

680
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: may have another name for it, but here on the

681
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: planet Earth we call that. That's what that's yeah. Yeah.

682
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: And then as we were speaking about before we hit

683
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: recorded or there is ah, A strong feeling has always

684
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: been in my life that I'm a part of that right,

685
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: that thing we call nature, and I know you feel

686
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: the same. Um, how did you? And and again I'm

687
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: at some like some of the last you to repeat

688
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: things you said I know in this show before. But

689
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: how do you how do you talk about that connectedness

690
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: and describe? Um, what you always said is animals are

691
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: not another you know, they just are not well. I

692
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 1: mean to me, how I describe it is to simply

693
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: ask people to, you know, question themselves. For someone who

694
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 1: grew up as I did, for someone who had the

695
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: career I have had, spending truly inordinate amounts of times

696
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: in wild places, it's relatively easy for people to say, well,

697
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: he's become that way because of those things. And but

698
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: you can take people who have often more into very

699
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: different societies and very different circumstances, and yet they are

700
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,240
Speaker 1: fascinated by the sight of wild things. It may be fearful,

701
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: they may be happy, they may be cautious, They need

702
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: all these things, may may be part of their reaction.

703
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: But they are in thhrall to some extent by the

704
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: appearance of something that is living, is not the same

705
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 1: as themselves. And so I would ask them to ask

706
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 1: themselves why should that be so? Why should they be

707
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: so absolutely fascinated when their backgrounds they may have been

708
00:40:54,239 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: royals or doctors and Chicago or Montreal or London some

709
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: other place. Why is it that we all have a

710
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 1: certain it's kind of absolute fascination. Why is it truly

711
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: all breeds and colors and creations are fascinating time, tiny

712
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: little humans with the other life forms that are out there.

713
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,479
Speaker 1: And so I mean, I guess I tried to reach

714
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,959
Speaker 1: people on that kind of level. You know, if every

715
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: day we open up our computers and we see these

716
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: crazy videos, you know, which you can't help but watch.

717
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: You know, someone's out of golf course and all of

718
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: a sudden, an eagle flies by, you know, runs down

719
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: a duck, you know, or an alligators out there, you know,

720
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: sunning himself near the ninth Hole or whatever it would be.

721
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: I mean, we are absolutely wrong to those stories. And

722
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something else that's really finer details. Have

723
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 1: you noticed the emotional outpoint occurs when someone does something

724
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: time for an animal, especially an animal unknown to them.

725
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: Somebody cares for their dog or or or whatever. It's

726
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: kind of accepted. But you know, if if someone rescues

727
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,399
Speaker 1: a deer that is that is found in any ice

728
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,879
Speaker 1: in icy water, or I saw one the other day,

729
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: or a bobcat had been frozen into a railway tracks

730
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: and and people totally wild, but people discovered it and

731
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: helped to free it and so on, it's over. And

732
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: the the outpouring of human emotion for both the animal

733
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: itself but also for the humans who have assisted that

734
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: animal is extraordinary. And you know, sometimes people complain about

735
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 1: this and they say, oh, they you know, they cared

736
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 1: more about the mountain line who attacked the lady than

737
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: they heard about the lady who was attacked. There's an

738
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: element of truth, but there's another layer of thinking that

739
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 1: by that and say, well, isn't that extraordinary that we

740
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: can kind of relate to the lion equally as we

741
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: can to our primate friend here, the human. That's not

742
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: to belittle the restiveness of the dangerous that nature. You know,

743
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 1: these things, these things are in us. They're not put

744
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: there by some book we read or some professor at

745
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: university or some calling down the road. These are these

746
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: are in us. And sometimes it takes a little more

747
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: to bring them out. Sometimes it takes a little less.

748
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: But I'll tell you it is in every single human being.

749
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: This tendency, this this this this empathy, this connection with

750
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: all of the others, and so it should be because

751
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: we're all connected. They always have absolutely How do you

752
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: and this is we've talked as we were mentioning before

753
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 1: we record again, we've talked a lot about animal rights

754
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: and veganism on this program. We've kind of explored how

755
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: similar are our thought processes are with them as hunters.

756
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: But taking a step back from that, for even for

757
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: a moment, when we talk about our connectedness with nature

758
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: and the animals that inhabited and that are part of it.

759
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: And then you become a hunter, can you describe, you know,

760
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: from your view, what are the possible pitfalls of as

761
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: you become a hunter and you start to hunt, pursue

762
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: and then kill um wild animals, how that might change

763
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: the way that you see them in a positive or

764
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: negative way, because I think for me it's been been

765
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: decidedly positive. But when you start with that connection you mentioned,

766
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: and then you insert the pursuit and killing of of

767
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: those wild animals, it's bound to change, um, how one

768
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: might perceive those those that connectedness itself. Mhm, Well it

769
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: does the heavily because UM human beings have obviously great

770
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: abhorrence of the killing garb species. We we have terms

771
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: like murders and so on, which are reputed as anious

772
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 1: acts UM, and so we understand at some level of

773
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 1: the killing of a sentient being it is to cross

774
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: the threshold very significant, UM. I think for those of

775
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 1: us who grew up with animals, of course, we always

776
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: knew they They were so very similar to us in

777
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 1: so many looks. You know. They could easily be started

778
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 1: and fearful, They could feel a lone um, they could

779
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: become confused in circumstances, they could run out of fear,

780
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: they could freeze and fear. But they could also do

781
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: amazing things like rescue people like we're famously from my dogs,

782
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: you know, which were notorious for rescuing people who were drowning,

783
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. So we came to

784
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,720
Speaker 1: understand that the animals had these kinds of shared capacities

785
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: with us, and we understood that it was possible for

786
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 1: love to flow between human being and another animal. And

787
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: humans knew that they loved them, that their horse, for example,

788
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: or their but if you but deep down, they also

789
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: felt and believed directly that there was an element of

790
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: love that came back to them from annibal to them.

791
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 1: And we have seen too many examples of this for

792
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: it to be bated whether it's true or not. It

793
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 1: is true. And so when one becomes a hunter um

794
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: and one of it takes that act of killing, you

795
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:03,280
Speaker 1: now see another extraordinary, very tense example of the great

796
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 1: similarities between the animals and ourselves. They feel pain, they react,

797
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: and fear, they can go into shop. There are natural

798
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: systems behave the same way to the impact of the

799
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: bullet of the arrow as ours would, How they bleed,

800
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: how they eventually die, and the entire reaction that they

801
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 1: show at our hands reinforces I think in many people

802
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: this very idea that they are the same as us

803
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: that doesn't change the natural equation of life. The fleshy

804
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: is flesh, and that we are all interconnected with food web.

805
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: But I think for for a lot of hunters, um,

806
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: and maybe for a lot of hunters, particularly as they

807
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: get a bit more experienced and mikes this and think

808
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: about this more, I think what hunting does actually is

809
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: reinforce the that they are the same as us, which

810
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 1: of course places enormous burdens on us in terms of

811
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: you know, how we hunt and how we try to

812
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: make as you may and as quick as it possibly

813
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: can be. Um, there is of course always you know,

814
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: radiation scale of variability and the reactions of any group

815
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: of people where it's hunting, hunters, or missionaries or political

816
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: leaders or whatever it be, and not everybody feels as

817
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 1: deeply about those things. And of course there will be

818
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: some people who will reject thinking because if you hold

819
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:01,760
Speaker 1: onto this thinking, realizing similar they are, but they feel

820
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 1: the book the same as you are I would. It

821
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 1: can be very you know, it can disenfranchise you from

822
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: the action altogether. We can sort of prevent you from

823
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: doing perhaps thinking too in some cases. And we all know,

824
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: well I can speak for myself, We all know that

825
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: at that moment that then after the stock is over

826
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 1: and there's the point which you feel you can shoot,

827
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: and you raise your rifle and settled across there as

828
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 1: its own. At some point you do have to drift

829
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: into a kind of special space where you keep all

830
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: of that out of your mind. You have to, you

831
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: have to enter a clean space. And having taken the

832
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: life of the animal, um, you're immediately brought back the

833
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 1: same if you get to it before it has a

834
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 1: we perished. We see it asking for air, see bleading

835
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 1: the CD, see first the environment its eyes, and then

836
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: you see the length about of its eyes. And it

837
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,359
Speaker 1: is one of the most profound reconnections with nature, of course,

838
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: that it's possible for anyone to have. And it should

839
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: as well make us understanding more of the complex dynamics

840
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,240
Speaker 1: that are necessary in nature, not just the role of prey,

841
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: but the role of predator and then the entire role

842
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 1: of habitats. It's necessary to of course support those natural

843
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: systems which can provide for human beings and provide for

844
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 1: species all at the same time. It's um. Even the

845
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: act of gutting their exposes you. If you were if

846
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 1: you're curious, you know too, the different sizes of the

847
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 1: organs and the body of different species. Why the liver

848
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 1: may be so big at one the hearts so big

849
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 1: in another. If you open the stomach you see what

850
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: they feed on, and suddenly realize that, you know, they've

851
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: been covering all this ground searching out for these different

852
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: kinds of plants. So it's in the case of a predator,

853
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: is different kinds of prey. And then you realize again

854
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: that all of that has to be taught in some

855
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,439
Speaker 1: way and learned by juvenile animals in the same way

856
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: that that little humans have to learn from older units.

857
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 1: I mean, at so many levels it it makes you profoundly,

858
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of kind of an awe of

859
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: the fact that that we can all be related to

860
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 1: such a kind of kind of absolutely critical way, an

861
00:51:54,320 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 1: immutable way. And and that's why, of course, at some level,

862
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: the thinking of people who are very much in favor of,

863
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, use of animals, sustainably use people who hunt,

864
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:14,359
Speaker 1: fish and gather, and oh kind of at some in

865
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: some way, not in a straight line, but kind of

866
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 1: in an arc, come to share a lot of the

867
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: emotional emotional attachments, the emotional aspects thinking for people who

868
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: are more in a non use mode rights or welfare

869
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: termind of you know, there's there seems to be a

870
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 1: lot of space in between those two groups, between the hunter,

871
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: let's say, the classic hunter, classic animal rights activists. But

872
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: you know, it always seems to me that if we

873
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: both of us were on trampolines, we just gave a

874
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: little bounce to our own beliefs, in our own ideas,

875
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:05,359
Speaker 1: you know, we would probably eventually see a great deal

876
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: in common between ourselves. Certainly, that's my whole because, as

877
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: I have always said, if I have to choose between

878
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: a world in which there are you know, some people

879
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: care about wildlife and and believe in being part of

880
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: the ecological relationship hunting, gatherer and fish and so on,

881
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: and a group of people on the other side who

882
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: say that's wrong. These animals are too precious, and they're

883
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 1: too much like us, You cannot do this kind of

884
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: thing rights whatever. I have to choose between that and

885
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: the world where there are people who hunt and fish

886
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 1: and gather someone and believe that we can sustainably utilize,

887
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: respectfully utilize wild things, and and another part of the

888
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:58,240
Speaker 1: world doesn't care at all, I would much have sooner

889
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 1: have the first work. Where are people who are deep

890
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 1: association with with wild things and with other life forms

891
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 1: and practice the use of them in a traditional way,

892
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: and those people who say, no, you should not be

893
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: doing this at all. I prefer that world of of

894
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: values and debate rather than a world where there is

895
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: significant difference towards animals and wild things. In difference will

896
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: lead us nowhere except into this debate. Debate leads two places. Yeah,

897
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 1: one of Yeah, one of the things that I've discovered

898
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: over my time having these discussions is that you know,

899
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 1: this analogy that I believe that when it comes to

900
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: animal rights and venus, we as hunters stand, you know,

901
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: at the beginning, when we're looking at a value system

902
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 1: for wildlife, we stand or animals as a whole, We

903
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: stand back to back, and then we slowly over time

904
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,439
Speaker 1: have walked away from each other and we forgot where

905
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 1: we started. We're yelling across this void at each other,

906
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: you know, using our disagreements as a as a way

907
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: to stay apart. When we forget that we start at

908
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: generally the same idea as you just describe there, that

909
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: we both value animals. We just have a different way

910
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,800
Speaker 1: of expressing it in a different way of of seeing

911
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 1: it in in both you know, the personal sense, the

912
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: more tangible sense, and the intangible sense of the word.

913
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 1: So I've just I've discovered in and as I said,

914
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: through talking to a lot of vegans and animal rights folks,

915
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: that we can come together. It takes almost one conversation

916
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: to take the most ardent animal rights activists and bring

917
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 1: them ten steps back from where they are to to

918
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 1: to better understanding of where you and I, you know,

919
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: I think equally sit. But I do want to return

920
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 1: to to a point you just made there about that

921
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:58,760
Speaker 1: clear space when you're hunting, about that time, the flow state,

922
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: if you will, when you have to, you know, make

923
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: that final act of hunting, which is to kill. I

924
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: just got back from I am on now a turkey

925
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,280
Speaker 1: hunt that's two weeks long, and I often get lost

926
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 1: in the game like qualities of hunting, right, I get lost.

927
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:22,359
Speaker 1: I get lost in the learning the animals, habits, overcoming

928
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 1: my own obstacles, overcoming weather changes, overcoming the things in

929
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: hunting that feel like a game. There's conflict and resolution. Um,

930
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,280
Speaker 1: there is an ultimate goal that I'm trying to achieve.

931
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: And as I think about those game like qualities. I

932
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: wonder when is it okay to get lost in just

933
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 1: the pursuit? You started to answer that question, I think

934
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: you said it well, but do you see across the

935
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: landscape of hunters that that we get lost in the

936
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: pursuit too much and we we never do return to

937
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 1: that moment you said, when an animal is dead and

938
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 1: we get to to engender that respect and think critically

939
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: about our own interaction with that animal. Um. That was

940
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:09,799
Speaker 1: really the basis for this show is to explore what's

941
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 1: the difference between being a hunter, you know, and and

942
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 1: being a conservationist or being a hunter and understanding ecosystems, um.

943
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: And I think the core of that might lie at

944
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: how entrenched do we get at playing the game, the

945
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: pursuit game of hunting. M hm, well, there's a lot

946
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: in that question too, But let me start by saying this.

947
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: I think there is the individual experience that has in

948
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: which he may share with his son or daughter, or

949
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 1: with his best friends, or with his wife or the

950
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: wife with a husband. There is that story, There is

951
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: that there is that memory, that history. Then there is

952
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: a kind of a collective image that is portrayed by

953
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: you know, journalists or people who write articles, magazines, television shows, podcasts, etcetera, etcetera,

954
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 1: which um, which often of course, particularly things are the podcasts,

955
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: which are very personalized. They tend to kind of represent

956
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 1: the activity kind of UM. And as we both know,

957
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: there are many dimensions to that which are sometimes commercial

958
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth, And therefore we can

959
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 1: create for the viewer of all of this very very

960
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: different stories. This this oldest way of life, which is hunt.

961
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 1: And in many cases, as you well know, an individual

962
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 1: hunter will say he or she will say to you

963
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 1: or to me or to other friends. You know, I

964
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: really don't like the way they talk about what I do.

965
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 1: So the first thing I would say is that, um,

966
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: there is a there's a lot of ways in which

967
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 1: the story gets the story UM. But I also do

968
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 1: believe that um um, and the importance of that distortion,

969
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: by the way, is that people who can be brought

970
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: into hunting and hearing that distorted story can develop certain

971
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 1: kinds of cultural expectations of how they perform and when

972
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 1: they are. But the second point I make is that

973
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 1: we you know, the the one of the great objectives

974
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: of hunting course is to is to secure the animal.

975
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: The ultimate drive, the ultimate psychological drive of hunting is

976
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 1: about possession m hmm. And while there are many other

977
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 1: physical drivers, and many other cultural drivers, and so on

978
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 1: and so forth, the idea of hunting is to possess

979
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 1: that animal that you see there. Of course, the only

980
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: way to possess to killing those otherwise it will simply

981
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: be with you. That's the only way you can possess it.

982
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: And to some extent, therefore, a threshold is reached in

983
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 1: hunting in the human mind, the human emotion and intellect um,

984
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 1: where once the animal is possessed, when it is dead,

985
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 1: there and you can walk up to it, touch its antis,

986
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: and touch its body and know that it will not

987
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 1: leap away. Again, that's a really important threshold of the world.

988
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 1: Too few people go to what is the next level,

989
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 1: the next threshold, which is to spend time honoring. As

990
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: I said in one of my sports of field are

991
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: three or four or five years ago. We do a

992
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 1: great job of honoring those people who seem to have

993
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: success with hunting awards and trophies and titans and all

994
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: this kind of thing. But how often do we honor

995
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: without which none of this is possible. Well, there are

996
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: traditions in the world from them. In traditions are putting

997
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 1: the last piece of food in the animal's mouth and

998
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 1: doing various small things to honor. I think these need

999
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: to be brought into the culture of hunting all over

1000
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 1: the world, and in fact the European expression which a

1001
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 1: lot of people know about, particularly the German and Austrian

1002
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 1: traditions and so on. Um this is really only modernized

1003
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: expression of what was the traditional feeling amongst hunters when

1004
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: they pursued wildlife, of course for the very purpose of survival.

1005
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 1: I have seen films oh black, grainy jumping films of

1006
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 1: kom bushman and the Calahari pursue big animals like giraffes

1007
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: for example, um and eland and pierce them with their

1008
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 1: tiny little arrows, poisonous arrows, until they bring the animal

1009
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,479
Speaker 1: to the standstill by running in the blistering hot sun

1010
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 1: over the sand to eight hours. And in one of

1011
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: the films there was a translation where these these these

1012
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 1: small black men were running after the animal they had

1013
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 1: chasing a kudu, big animal, as you know, very impressive,

1014
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: wonderful example of the spiral point. And they said for

1015
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 1: the first eight hours running in the blistering sun. We

1016
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: chase the kudu, but after that we entered the dream

1017
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: space and the are we no longer look for a sign,

1018
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 1: no longer look for tracks, because we are running with him.

1019
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 1: The end of that kind of hunt is a spear

1020
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 1: thrust into the lungs and hearts of the animal which

1021
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: cannot run any further. But then there are the quiet moments.

1022
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: There were three men in this particular case talking in

1023
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:17,919
Speaker 1: their own amazing click language about the end, about its

1024
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: beauty and its side, how well it ran, and all

1025
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 1: of these kinds of things. And this is something that

1026
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 1: needs to be emphasized more for young hunters. It needs

1027
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 1: to be part of what we emphasize. We ought to

1028
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 1: be moving in hunting experience and training and education backwards

1029
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 1: from that moment that should be the beginning moment of

1030
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: their training, and go all the way back from there

1031
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:52,200
Speaker 1: to learning about you know, wildlife management, and learning about

1032
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: a rifle, and learning about cartridges and ballistics and all

1033
01:04:56,240 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 1: these kinds of things. And I think it's u some

1034
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 1: people have it to some extent greater than others, but

1035
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 1: I think it is possible to make it part of

1036
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 1: the hunting culture to a much much greater extent, And

1037
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 1: I think it would be impossible for even someone deeply

1038
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 1: opposed to the hunting of animals to witness those kinds

1039
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 1: of moments between still living human who will one day die,

1040
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 1: of course, just as the animal itself has died and

1041
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: returned to the earth exactly the same way, who looks

1042
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 1: down upon this life form, and as I have expressed

1043
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 1: myself many times, in a sense wishes that he could

1044
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 1: possess and consume and give life back to that animal

1045
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 1: all over. Yeah, but of course the ecology of life

1046
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: does not work. Now, that's a that's a powerful message.

1047
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 1: I have have recently been thinking about and discussing kind

1048
01:05:57,080 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 1: of the practical version of my hunting life, the emotional

1049
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: version of my hunting life, and kind of the crossroads

1050
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: of both and and so I can very much appreciate

1051
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 1: that possession and honor and kind of balancing those two

1052
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 1: and setting them against each other in some ways, I

1053
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: imagine that you'll have to do. Do you have a

1054
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 1: do you have a personal story of of a moment

1055
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: like this where you particularly call back to when when

1056
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 1: for context of how this, how that honoring and that

1057
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 1: emotion plays into the end of a hunt, something that

1058
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 1: has happened in your life, or maybe a story that

1059
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 1: you've heard from someone you respect along the way. I mean,

1060
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 1: I think for me then, and you know, I speak

1061
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:50,360
Speaker 1: very emotionally about this active, speak personally and be honest,

1062
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 1: I think it's probably true that I started to first

1063
01:06:53,200 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 1: speak publicly, emotionally and honestly about this activity. Um. This

1064
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 1: this this natural engagement. It made, It certainly made some

1065
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: audience is uncomfortable. And but I guess for me, um,

1066
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 1: it's not so much a single hunt or a single event.

1067
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 1: It's a series of events that are completely independent but

1068
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:34,480
Speaker 1: are very often the same, and which taught me that

1069
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:39,160
Speaker 1: all of hunting is about possession. You don't hear that

1070
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 1: people don't talk. Yeah, I've never I haven't heard outside

1071
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 1: of of our conversations and what you said today. And

1072
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 1: I want all listeners to remember why you're you know

1073
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 1: that that word it's important. But that's so when I

1074
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:55,920
Speaker 1: was a very small boy, UM, living in a very

1075
01:07:55,960 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: isolated community. Um, of course, I started out by catching

1076
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: insects and bumble bees and jars and visual kinds of things.

1077
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 1: And I I was, I mean, I did it relentlessly.

1078
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 1: I was always, always, always, acts um and I had

1079
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 1: from even that experience. First, I can see them in

1080
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 1: the jars now, with the small, the small flowers. I

1081
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: would put there in anything I thought that i'd keep

1082
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:30,559
Speaker 1: them alive and keep well, so that I could keep

1083
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: them in my possession for longer and longer. And then,

1084
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 1: of course, eventually what would happen to some of them?

1085
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: They would grow weak, and then it would start to

1086
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 1: crawl around in the jar instead of flying and buzzing

1087
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 1: trying to get out of the lid, so on and

1088
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 1: so forth. And I'd make sure there were holes in

1089
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:48,560
Speaker 1: the lid for air to get in, and you know,

1090
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,599
Speaker 1: all the things to try to keep this little ancle alive,

1091
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 1: this this insect. I didn't didn't want him to the

1092
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 1: last thing. Of course, eventually I would possess him until

1093
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 1: he died, and then maybe when he was weak, I'd

1094
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 1: lay them out on the ground and wait for him

1095
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 1: to spend the life do And of course then I

1096
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 1: would be able to look at him very carefully and

1097
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 1: see the hairs on his legs and all but his

1098
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:14,720
Speaker 1: eyes looked like in his jaws, and his stinger and

1099
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 1: all these kinds of things which I couldn't really see

1100
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:20,719
Speaker 1: when he was buzzing around in my jump. And then

1101
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:23,720
Speaker 1: we used to have things like snowbirds which would come

1102
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:27,760
Speaker 1: in under winter ice, and you we try to catch them.

1103
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:31,920
Speaker 1: I remember we used to hide under the wharf and

1104
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 1: and get a small piece of wood like pie wood,

1105
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: just something we would find on the beach, and we

1106
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 1: would put a stick under it with a little piece

1107
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 1: of rope, you know, and then crawled back underneath the

1108
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 1: the wharf, the frozen ice. There's no water under the

1109
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 1: wharf any just pure ice. It's a very poor community.

1110
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 1: We put little pieces of fat pork or rolled out

1111
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:58,880
Speaker 1: anything we could get thin with enticeees in the snowbirds,

1112
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:00,599
Speaker 1: and when they come in under the board, of course,

1113
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:05,000
Speaker 1: we pulled the spring. And the hope was that you

1114
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 1: would you would not kill one, but the hope was

1115
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 1: that you sort of capture. And I remember doing that

1116
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 1: and and killing one, take time, and and holding that

1117
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 1: that little bird in my hand. I was a small boy,

1118
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:30,160
Speaker 1: four maybe certainly all of them. And and this is

1119
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:32,600
Speaker 1: this is a freezing cold place, you know, this is

1120
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:35,240
Speaker 1: this is this is this is a place. You can't travel.

1121
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 1: You can't you can't travel by boat from us because

1122
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:40,800
Speaker 1: it was I so much ice there. And I can

1123
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 1: still remember taking off by mead and and having that

1124
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:49,920
Speaker 1: little bird and the warmth from its body, which of

1125
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:54,040
Speaker 1: course it was a complete surprise to me. I did.

1126
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 1: I didn't think about them being warm as they flew around,

1127
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 1: and and and so on and so forth, and then

1128
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 1: and then feeling of course the heat leave. It's it's

1129
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 1: it's it's body. And so this these experiences gets get

1130
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:11,439
Speaker 1: translated over and over and over and over again in

1131
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 1: my life to the times when I finally began to

1132
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 1: hunt them. I didn't begin to hunt till life was,

1133
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:22,600
Speaker 1: you know, my early twenties. I hadn't been around it

1134
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:27,440
Speaker 1: to do it myself. And of course, uh, first memorable

1135
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 1: animal was a was a monstrous pool moose. It's like

1136
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 1: it's a long way the long way of a bumble

1137
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 1: bee and a snowbird. And ah. But what I remember

1138
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 1: then about that that this one shot we floated to

1139
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: the ground like a beef. Shot him in the back

1140
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 1: of the spine. Was instant, instant, instantly, And I still

1141
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 1: remember as you got closer to him. First of all,

1142
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 1: this year's size, this is a big bluddy things. Uh,

1143
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 1: at the size of his holes, you know, and then

1144
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:15,479
Speaker 1: leaning against him and again feeling that incredible amount of

1145
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:19,559
Speaker 1: heat being renovative generated from his body. And then I

1146
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 1: can also remember finally touching those antlers I had collected.

1147
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 1: I had collected I don't know how many animals in

1148
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 1: my time. I was field researching all the time. I

1149
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 1: was fascinated my ads, my own son, my little boy.

1150
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 1: He had a collection of apps that you know, I mean,

1151
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:41,639
Speaker 1: most people never see a collection of apt uh. And

1152
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:46,679
Speaker 1: but I was now touching the antlers on the head

1153
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:53,520
Speaker 1: of an animal that had just and that was completely

1154
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:59,719
Speaker 1: totally different feeling to me. And I remember those things

1155
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 1: as they're far more important than anything in terms of

1156
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, the shooting or that even the tracking, any

1157
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:15,640
Speaker 1: of those kinds of things. It was I possessed and

1158
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 1: now I could, surely I could. I could see and

1159
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 1: learn and feel things about these animals which I I

1160
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:26,800
Speaker 1: just could not when I watched them and they were

1161
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 1: far away from me, and they were living the lives

1162
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 1: that they ordinarily. And you know one far more recently,

1163
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:40,479
Speaker 1: you know the cow elp that I took in in

1164
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:45,680
Speaker 1: New Mexico two years ago. I remember we had filmed this,

1165
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 1: of course, but I remember she had died. It was

1166
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:52,600
Speaker 1: a very good shot, went right through one along and

1167
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:55,559
Speaker 1: took a part. She just it was only once and

1168
01:13:56,280 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 1: she went a short distance and died. But of course

1169
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 1: it was enough power missile. Some bloods push back out

1170
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,639
Speaker 1: through and you know, touch the grass as we were

1171
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 1: as we walked towards her. There wasn't much blood, but

1172
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 1: there was enough that you could see it on the grass.

1173
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:19,360
Speaker 1: And this is again, you know, kind of an expression

1174
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:26,439
Speaker 1: of of her similarity to me. And therefore, of course

1175
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 1: there was never any questions. I would send all of

1176
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 1: them all the way back from New Mexico to where

1177
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 1: I live on the island of Newfoundland, eastern most piece

1178
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 1: of ground on the North American content. And I'm not

1179
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:44,360
Speaker 1: going to tell you or any listener about what it

1180
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 1: costs me to get that meat back from Mexico, but

1181
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 1: I can tell you that I was very careful about

1182
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: using every ounce of that meat. Believe so um. For me,

1183
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:02,839
Speaker 1: it's just part of the it's part of the ritual.

1184
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 1: And I often regret even fishing. You know, I was

1185
01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:11,759
Speaker 1: a fanatical trout fishing, especially as a little boy. Certain

1186
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:15,720
Speaker 1: we lived that. I mean, I still get emotional in

1187
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,799
Speaker 1: the spring the snow starts to a blade. The water

1188
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:22,679
Speaker 1: runs heavy in small brooks, and it's black. The water

1189
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,800
Speaker 1: is black and springs with the snow covering it. It

1190
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 1: looks black, and it's not like any other time of

1191
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:34,280
Speaker 1: the year. And you know, but you know, sometimes when

1192
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 1: I would get home and talking again five six seven

1193
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 1: years of age, often the woods fishing, because that's the

1194
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 1: lifestyle we had. Um Sometimes when I would get home

1195
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:48,639
Speaker 1: and I take my trout off, my little skiverer, which

1196
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 1: was only a little piece of tree that I caught

1197
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:58,599
Speaker 1: leaves on on, I still, you know, wish that they

1198
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 1: would simply come to life in and of course they couldn't.

1199
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:07,599
Speaker 1: And and I was adamant even then that they had

1200
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:10,240
Speaker 1: to be eaten. Of course my mother, my mother was

1201
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 1: Irish from Ireland, every citizen to consequence, and you know,

1202
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 1: she she sometimes helped us clean them. Of course, if

1203
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:22,720
Speaker 1: she saw worms and then their stomach like tape or

1204
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 1: something like that, well that was it neat. And this

1205
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 1: was always a terrible row, because h the idea of

1206
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:43,600
Speaker 1: throwing them out was just terrible. Uh. And but you know,

1207
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 1: so I suppose for me the leanings were there, for

1208
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:53,840
Speaker 1: you know, not many children at five years of age.

1209
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:56,120
Speaker 1: When I was turned six when this happened. Actually, when

1210
01:16:56,160 --> 01:16:59,400
Speaker 1: I turned six, my father and mother asked me what

1211
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:01,320
Speaker 1: I would like to have my birthday. And I was

1212
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:05,160
Speaker 1: living another small community at that time, and I told

1213
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:10,639
Speaker 1: him hands. So for my birthday, my father and small

1214
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:16,400
Speaker 1: hand built. I had my own hands and m h

1215
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:21,719
Speaker 1: and they were incredibly important to me collect the reggs.

1216
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:24,240
Speaker 1: And of course it was a common practice that we

1217
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:28,880
Speaker 1: take hands and we killed them to eat those particulars

1218
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:33,519
Speaker 1: that I possessed, that I own. Ah, no one was

1219
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:38,680
Speaker 1: allowed to take. So it's a you know, at what

1220
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:47,760
Speaker 1: point then, did my my inclinations, my Irish Celtic genetics

1221
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:57,000
Speaker 1: and my Newfoundland mixtures, uh, my mother's fantastic storytelling the

1222
01:17:57,120 --> 01:18:01,000
Speaker 1: fairies and banshees and what him in the darkness and

1223
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:05,680
Speaker 1: so on and so forth, and the deep Catholicism of

1224
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 1: my opening, all of that kind of religious mystery and

1225
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 1: so on. At what point all of that came together?

1226
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 1: Lifestyle essentially a young ape free to do whatever they

1227
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 1: wanted in the natural world. How did that all come together?

1228
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:27,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, let's come together. It did. Pieces of

1229
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:30,920
Speaker 1: the ultimate puzzle, you know, that that make each one

1230
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:33,760
Speaker 1: of us that, Yeah, I think that's it's good to hear.

1231
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 1: I I've heard you, you know, talk personally about your

1232
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 1: own experiences some but um, it's it's nice to hear

1233
01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:43,679
Speaker 1: you relate those things. And I'm sure everyone listening has

1234
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 1: those moments that they remember as a child. But also

1235
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 1: I would I would be very unashamed to say that

1236
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 1: I have a four year old son and I watched

1237
01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:56,240
Speaker 1: closely how he deals with fishing. He's not yet gone hunting,

1238
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:59,840
Speaker 1: but we we have fished quite a lot, and he

1239
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:01,920
Speaker 1: I always ask him when we catch a fish, would

1240
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 1: you like to throw it back? Or would you like

1241
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 1: to eat it? And he never says throw it back.

1242
01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:10,519
Speaker 1: He never once has said let's throw this fish back.

1243
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 1: He wants to possess it, and he's very proud of

1244
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:22,040
Speaker 1: that possession. And then ultimately that leads us to something

1245
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:25,479
Speaker 1: I know we we all quite often talked about, but

1246
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:27,439
Speaker 1: I want to cover here, of course, is to this

1247
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:31,599
Speaker 1: idea of how we then translate that possession to food.

1248
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:34,800
Speaker 1: And I think it food becomes kind of the intersection

1249
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 1: of many of the topics that we've already talked about

1250
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:40,160
Speaker 1: and we'll go on to talk about because it because

1251
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:43,760
Speaker 1: there is an element of ceremonial nature of eating an

1252
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:46,559
Speaker 1: animal that you've killed, right. There is honor there, there

1253
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:50,599
Speaker 1: is possession. There, there's many of the things we've talked about.

1254
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 1: There's the practical elements of cooking it and making it

1255
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:56,960
Speaker 1: taste good and transforming it. From our friend Ryan Callahan

1256
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:01,280
Speaker 1: Offense says, the transformation from a living animal to what's

1257
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:04,679
Speaker 1: on your plate, it's in and of itself. Watching and

1258
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:08,559
Speaker 1: being part of that transformation in and of itself changes

1259
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:12,080
Speaker 1: how you think of food because you understand where that

1260
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:14,960
Speaker 1: thing came from and what it where it lived, and

1261
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:21,920
Speaker 1: how it made it and what it ate. HM. Take

1262
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:25,160
Speaker 1: us to the to the moment where now you have

1263
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:28,680
Speaker 1: this food, we've we've kind of gone from the possession

1264
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:32,559
Speaker 1: to the honor, and now we're we're consuming the flesh

1265
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 1: of these animals. How do you conceptualize that? Um, that

1266
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:38,160
Speaker 1: part of it and how it plays into what we

1267
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:43,360
Speaker 1: already talked about. Well, UM, I think all of human

1268
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 1: beings have some level of understanding of what the higher

1269
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 1: order uses of things are UM, and this translates to

1270
01:20:58,040 --> 01:21:05,679
Speaker 1: many aspects of the human condition. And while the taking

1271
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:15,800
Speaker 1: of animal's life can be done for other reasons and

1272
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:20,920
Speaker 1: ceremonial reasons are the reasons of you know, it's part

1273
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:24,720
Speaker 1: of an experience, and people wish to have memorability of that,

1274
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:30,280
Speaker 1: such as ants on the wall. B. Meanwhile, there may

1275
01:21:30,280 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 1: be a variety of of of any products if you

1276
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:40,120
Speaker 1: will form the counting experience. I don't think anyone in

1277
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:49,080
Speaker 1: the world would be able to argue that the consumption

1278
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 1: of that animal possessed is the most profound and the

1279
01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:06,600
Speaker 1: most justified and the most justifiable reason for lethal possession.

1280
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:12,800
Speaker 1: If you can capture an animal without killing, all these

1281
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:19,599
Speaker 1: dynamics change. But if you possess an animal through its

1282
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: death mediated by your own hand, then the idea of

1283
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:33,880
Speaker 1: consuming that animal, Yes, is this has this kind of

1284
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:40,680
Speaker 1: profound beauty for two reasons. At least One is that

1285
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:46,760
Speaker 1: food is a very unique thing in a lot of species.

1286
01:22:48,160 --> 01:22:52,799
Speaker 1: In a lot of species, food is used in ceremonial fashion,

1287
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:58,759
Speaker 1: for example, helping feed a mate in a wide variety

1288
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:04,160
Speaker 1: of species c bird carnivals, etcetera. Expa um. In our

1289
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:08,360
Speaker 1: particular species, this is taken to a whole other level,

1290
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:16,720
Speaker 1: and you know, we turn it into family gathers. We

1291
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:20,519
Speaker 1: talked about it in terms that are usually reserved for

1292
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:22,920
Speaker 1: our feelings to one another. You know, I think I

1293
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:25,840
Speaker 1: love food and the way we talk about tastes and

1294
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:30,120
Speaker 1: how we travel the world to look for ingredients that

1295
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:33,120
Speaker 1: can be part of foods, foods that are alien to

1296
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 1: our own cultures but which we wish to experience. Um.

1297
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:40,360
Speaker 1: They are part of our ceremonies of death at funerals

1298
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 1: and funeral rights. They are part of the origins of

1299
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:46,800
Speaker 1: life and births and so on and so forth, and

1300
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:51,840
Speaker 1: any number of religious ceremonies in any number of religions

1301
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:55,439
Speaker 1: around the world. They are the family dinners that you

1302
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 1: make people. They are the special dinners that take on

1303
01:23:58,120 --> 01:24:01,800
Speaker 1: special days like New Year's Day or or or or

1304
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:05,879
Speaker 1: any particular one you might choose from a particular culture.

1305
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:09,839
Speaker 1: They even make football games greater because you know, you

1306
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:12,000
Speaker 1: you cook on your tailgate and you have is these

1307
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:15,439
Speaker 1: massive parts all around food, all around food. You know,

1308
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:18,519
Speaker 1: so so food is it is? It is? It in

1309
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:23,240
Speaker 1: incredibly important thing to human beings and the someone wants

1310
01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 1: said to be Shane. If you want to be famous,

1311
01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:28,839
Speaker 1: write a book, read a cookbook. You know, then that's

1312
01:24:29,040 --> 01:24:33,439
Speaker 1: that's the way to fame. It really is an extraordinarily

1313
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:42,960
Speaker 1: powerful psychological and physical reality. No. Originally, the only way

1314
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:46,519
Speaker 1: we acquired fired food was through hunting and gathering and scavenged.

1315
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:51,439
Speaker 1: And of course, the most most nutritious of all the

1316
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:54,000
Speaker 1: things we get, the thing that we give us the

1317
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:57,519
Speaker 1: biggest nutritional bang for our box, or to speak, it

1318
01:24:57,680 --> 01:25:01,960
Speaker 1: was the hunted apple. The animal rotea were broken and

1319
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 1: set free by fire and giving us an explosion of

1320
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:10,439
Speaker 1: nutrition that nothing else would really equal at the time

1321
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:17,280
Speaker 1: per unit um. And of course we came to understand,

1322
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:20,920
Speaker 1: because we knew the importance of food to our own bodies,

1323
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:26,040
Speaker 1: that when we consumed things, when we consumed living things,

1324
01:25:26,160 --> 01:25:31,720
Speaker 1: we killed they were what they were giving us the

1325
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:36,280
Speaker 1: most precious thing any human pain can possess. They were

1326
01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:43,480
Speaker 1: giving us life. And so now there was this inseparability

1327
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:50,400
Speaker 1: between the lives and the landscapes, the behaviors and the

1328
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 1: knowledge and the way of life of the animal and

1329
01:25:55,120 --> 01:26:00,559
Speaker 1: our own way of life. This is an intimacy that

1330
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:06,920
Speaker 1: brings everything together. It brings our relationship to them, their

1331
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:12,599
Speaker 1: relationship to us, and the understanding amongst us of all

1332
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:17,680
Speaker 1: of the interrelationships between all animals. The consumption of a

1333
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:28,639
Speaker 1: wild thing is uniquely positioned in this pantheon of cultural considerations, because,

1334
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:33,320
Speaker 1: as we have shared before, I am certain the value

1335
01:26:34,360 --> 01:26:37,000
Speaker 1: that is placed on the harvest of the wild thing

1336
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:44,439
Speaker 1: is always in so many, so many important dimensions, is

1337
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:52,960
Speaker 1: always different, more nuanced, more enhanced, more more sophisticated than

1338
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:55,599
Speaker 1: if we are dealing with something that is not violent.

1339
01:26:56,520 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: And this goes to our traditions of sharing the things

1340
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:03,200
Speaker 1: we take from the wild with one another, which completely

1341
01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:10,639
Speaker 1: totally recapitulates the original lifestyle beings Santer gathers and brings

1342
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:18,120
Speaker 1: it forward into century where you know, machines are crawling

1343
01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:24,640
Speaker 1: over Mars at our direction and sending images back to us.

1344
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 1: And yet that original power of our relationship towards wild

1345
01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:37,080
Speaker 1: things as the sources of our own sustenance is carried

1346
01:27:37,120 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 1: forward with a profound, profound importance today. And you may

1347
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:47,280
Speaker 1: be a banker working in Philadelphia, or you may be

1348
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:52,280
Speaker 1: a business owner operating in Zula, Montana. Who might be

1349
01:27:52,560 --> 01:28:00,759
Speaker 1: a medical doctor working in uh San Francisco. But something

1350
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:04,439
Speaker 1: about things taken from the wild and turned into food,

1351
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:12,480
Speaker 1: but always bring something unique and special to your experience.

1352
01:28:13,400 --> 01:28:17,400
Speaker 1: You give people the choice between a pen raise salmon

1353
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:22,360
Speaker 1: and one taken at some point in his journey through

1354
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 1: the cold wide expanses of the ocean, and they will

1355
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:34,240
Speaker 1: take the letter very good reasons, many reasons, and ultimately

1356
01:28:34,400 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 1: for cultural and evolutionary reasons that they know, uh, they

1357
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:45,400
Speaker 1: take the best when they take from the wild. Yeah,

1358
01:28:45,439 --> 01:28:48,439
Speaker 1: and that's as you mentioned there, it sparked something in

1359
01:28:48,520 --> 01:28:50,800
Speaker 1: you when you take part in that. For sure, it

1360
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:54,600
Speaker 1: sparked something in you that's very biological. It feels that

1361
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:58,160
Speaker 1: feels like it reaches back in time and in many ways.

1362
01:28:58,160 --> 01:29:01,080
Speaker 1: And I know because of your passion for for wild

1363
01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:04,440
Speaker 1: food and you're under and your I know, you're broader

1364
01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:07,760
Speaker 1: pursuit of understanding of how it affects our world and

1365
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:10,320
Speaker 1: how it affects you know, every part of not only

1366
01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:14,519
Speaker 1: our culture and society, but the economics of of some

1367
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:16,680
Speaker 1: of the food systems that we have. That you've you

1368
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:20,360
Speaker 1: started the wild Harvest initiative. And it's been sometime since

1369
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:24,600
Speaker 1: you you began that journey years to three years or

1370
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:26,720
Speaker 1: has it been longer than that? Longer than that, it's

1371
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:30,720
Speaker 1: almost almost four Can you explain kind of you know,

1372
01:29:31,439 --> 01:29:34,040
Speaker 1: the wild Harvest initiative I think is you I know,

1373
01:29:34,160 --> 01:29:37,520
Speaker 1: for a fact, looking at the landscape and hunting especially

1374
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:42,120
Speaker 1: but in conservation more holy that the Wild Harvest Initiatives

1375
01:29:42,120 --> 01:29:44,960
Speaker 1: is very unique in what it's trying to do. There's

1376
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:47,760
Speaker 1: not much out there like it. And hence, I think

1377
01:29:48,479 --> 01:29:50,400
Speaker 1: for for many reasons, but for that one, because it

1378
01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:52,679
Speaker 1: is so unique and what it what it's trying to achieve,

1379
01:29:52,680 --> 01:29:55,160
Speaker 1: it's important for us for listeners of this show to

1380
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:58,839
Speaker 1: understand and to hear you articulate kind of the origin

1381
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:01,559
Speaker 1: story of of the Wild Harvest Initiative. There can you

1382
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:03,559
Speaker 1: give folks just the background there and then and then

1383
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:06,200
Speaker 1: I want to discuss some of the some of the developments,

1384
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:10,920
Speaker 1: and then the future of of the initiative. Yeah, it's um.

1385
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:14,160
Speaker 1: You know a lot of people know me for my

1386
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:17,080
Speaker 1: work in carnival research, or they know me for my

1387
01:30:17,120 --> 01:30:23,280
Speaker 1: work on the North American model, and um, but I

1388
01:30:23,320 --> 01:30:26,040
Speaker 1: really do believe that the Wild Harvest Initiative is probably

1389
01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:28,680
Speaker 1: for me at least the most important thing that I've

1390
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:34,120
Speaker 1: ever taken, because it actually brings together all of these

1391
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:37,720
Speaker 1: things we have been discussing them. Yeah, that's more. Besides,

1392
01:30:40,439 --> 01:30:44,200
Speaker 1: I want people to care about nature, and I want

1393
01:30:44,280 --> 01:30:46,720
Speaker 1: them to care about nature and some personal kind of

1394
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:51,280
Speaker 1: not not not in something that's fine too. But you

1395
01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:55,759
Speaker 1: know that's sort of smaller. I want the average citizens,

1396
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:58,519
Speaker 1: so to speak, you know, whatever that means. But you

1397
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:02,360
Speaker 1: know what, I want the average citizen and all walks

1398
01:31:02,360 --> 01:31:06,160
Speaker 1: of life, all creeds and colors, to care about the

1399
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:12,000
Speaker 1: natural world. And we have to find some way to

1400
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:15,880
Speaker 1: make it more important to more people because right now,

1401
01:31:17,560 --> 01:31:20,320
Speaker 1: of all the distance between us and nature that has occurred,

1402
01:31:21,400 --> 01:31:25,880
Speaker 1: too few people care. Too few people care in order

1403
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:31,200
Speaker 1: for us to keep what everyone should care. And we

1404
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:36,280
Speaker 1: have to change that equation. And I've published in probably

1405
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:41,160
Speaker 1: twenty five review journals, published book chapters and edited books

1406
01:31:41,200 --> 01:31:45,559
Speaker 1: and monographs, written seventy five articles or something for Sports

1407
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:48,680
Speaker 1: and Field and many other outlets and so on. So

1408
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:53,519
Speaker 1: but my personal belief is that we have to find

1409
01:31:53,600 --> 01:32:01,439
Speaker 1: some way for people to come to nature naturally. Um.

1410
01:32:01,479 --> 01:32:03,400
Speaker 1: You know a lot of people place a great store

1411
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:08,200
Speaker 1: on you know, scientific knowledge and academic pursuits and so

1412
01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:12,200
Speaker 1: on and so forth. You know, Jonathan Jonathan Swift told

1413
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:17,400
Speaker 1: us centuries ago that that you cannot reason the human

1414
01:32:17,439 --> 01:32:21,679
Speaker 1: being into something, or you you and you certainly cannot

1415
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:25,519
Speaker 1: reason them out of something unless first they have been

1416
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:27,400
Speaker 1: reasoned into it, if you know what I mean. They

1417
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:30,920
Speaker 1: this idea that empirical knowledge will just fix it all

1418
01:32:31,080 --> 01:32:38,880
Speaker 1: is very simplistic. And so I started to think about

1419
01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:41,720
Speaker 1: what could this be and what could it be that

1420
01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:46,920
Speaker 1: could transcend everything, all the divide and all the social

1421
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:50,120
Speaker 1: stratis and all these kinds of things. And I landed

1422
01:32:50,160 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 1: on this idea of food. And I was aware, of

1423
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:58,120
Speaker 1: course that in our world today, the idea of human health,

1424
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:02,439
Speaker 1: the idea of healthy food, understanding the origins of our food,

1425
01:33:02,720 --> 01:33:06,000
Speaker 1: the idea of fitness and long jevit, living law and

1426
01:33:06,040 --> 01:33:10,680
Speaker 1: living healthy was it was a real social phenomenal. M

1427
01:33:11,560 --> 01:33:14,000
Speaker 1: So I said, well, what about we started to really

1428
01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:19,479
Speaker 1: think about wildlfe food once again. And yes, there were

1429
01:33:19,520 --> 01:33:22,600
Speaker 1: the arguments against it. You know, this is modern North America,

1430
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:25,920
Speaker 1: you know, not living any longer in the such and

1431
01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:29,440
Speaker 1: such time, and you know it's a it's a recreational

1432
01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:32,280
Speaker 1: pastime and all these kinds of things. And well, well,

1433
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:34,760
Speaker 1: hold on, let's take a look at this. Let's see

1434
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:37,640
Speaker 1: how big this is, and see how big it is

1435
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:41,200
Speaker 1: for the forty five million people hunting fish recreationally in

1436
01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:43,639
Speaker 1: Canada the United States each year. Let's let's just see

1437
01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:47,680
Speaker 1: if this is such an insignificant So my idea was

1438
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:51,400
Speaker 1: to compile all of the data existing on the harvest

1439
01:33:51,479 --> 01:33:57,200
Speaker 1: of wildlife and fish by recreational users only in Canada

1440
01:33:57,240 --> 01:34:02,439
Speaker 1: and the United States, and to therefore the number of

1441
01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:06,000
Speaker 1: animals we harvest off the land in both countries, of

1442
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:10,160
Speaker 1: all species, and the amount of food that is generated

1443
01:34:11,240 --> 01:34:15,080
Speaker 1: by all of that harvesting. And of course this had

1444
01:34:15,120 --> 01:34:18,040
Speaker 1: never been done before. It had never been done in

1445
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:19,920
Speaker 1: the history of North America, never been done in the

1446
01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:21,960
Speaker 1: history of the United States or Canada, and it had

1447
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:25,080
Speaker 1: never been done anywhere in the world. I came to

1448
01:34:25,520 --> 01:34:32,320
Speaker 1: eventually realized, and my idea is to show people the

1449
01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:40,480
Speaker 1: number of incredibly healthy meals that we currently are sustainably

1450
01:34:40,560 --> 01:34:44,240
Speaker 1: harvesting from the private and public lands of Canada and

1451
01:34:44,240 --> 01:34:52,000
Speaker 1: the States, and to ask them to think about what

1452
01:34:52,280 --> 01:34:55,600
Speaker 1: we might be able to produce if we started to

1453
01:34:55,640 --> 01:35:00,000
Speaker 1: think about natural systems and natural habitants as food reservoirs,

1454
01:35:00,479 --> 01:35:03,400
Speaker 1: as health reservoirs for people, and of course that not

1455
01:35:03,400 --> 01:35:07,000
Speaker 1: only provide food, but also provide running, clear clean water,

1456
01:35:07,360 --> 01:35:10,600
Speaker 1: clean air, and so on and so forth. So I

1457
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:13,400
Speaker 1: have amassed the largest database in the world, and this

1458
01:35:14,080 --> 01:35:18,200
Speaker 1: um for four years and with great support a lot

1459
01:35:18,320 --> 01:35:22,559
Speaker 1: of state agencies and NGOs and industry leaders, so on

1460
01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:26,320
Speaker 1: and so forth, and there is absolutely nothing like it.

1461
01:35:27,400 --> 01:35:29,920
Speaker 1: We have lots of efforts out there to talk about

1462
01:35:29,960 --> 01:35:33,960
Speaker 1: game meat and have game dinners and all those ands

1463
01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:36,400
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth, and that's all good

1464
01:35:36,479 --> 01:35:39,759
Speaker 1: and it's all needed, but at some point in time

1465
01:35:39,800 --> 01:35:47,240
Speaker 1: we need powerful data to influence policy and political decisions

1466
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:51,639
Speaker 1: about the lands that support the wildlife of our countries.

1467
01:35:53,160 --> 01:35:59,360
Speaker 1: And if we can make people understand that these are

1468
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:04,080
Speaker 1: reservo hours of health, these lands, and that we are

1469
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:08,080
Speaker 1: all entitled to powers in a sustainable way products from

1470
01:36:08,080 --> 01:36:12,559
Speaker 1: those lands, then I think we can make a real

1471
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:17,400
Speaker 1: difference in how people think about the importance of nature.

1472
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:26,080
Speaker 1: So we also, of course, in providing this information, we're

1473
01:36:26,080 --> 01:36:30,200
Speaker 1: going to say how much it's worth. So if we

1474
01:36:30,280 --> 01:36:34,479
Speaker 1: have billions and pounds we do billions and billions of

1475
01:36:34,520 --> 01:36:38,519
Speaker 1: pounds is incredibly healthy food and kicking around through our

1476
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:41,840
Speaker 1: home economies, how much is that worth if people had

1477
01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:44,920
Speaker 1: to go and buy that. Because people like to have

1478
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:47,320
Speaker 1: a price tag, they want to know how much it's worth.

1479
01:36:48,680 --> 01:36:51,760
Speaker 1: So we are going to tell them exactly how much

1480
01:36:52,680 --> 01:36:56,840
Speaker 1: be worth in terms of domestic equivalents such as beef

1481
01:36:56,840 --> 01:36:59,559
Speaker 1: for chicken, you know, hogs and so on, and in

1482
01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:02,120
Speaker 1: fact much it would be worth as especially food item

1483
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:03,799
Speaker 1: if you had to go buy it at a store

1484
01:37:03,960 --> 01:37:08,439
Speaker 1: or at a mark something in this nature. And then

1485
01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:13,439
Speaker 1: we're going to take that value, which is in the many,

1486
01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:17,000
Speaker 1: many billions of dollars, and we're going to add that

1487
01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:21,160
Speaker 1: to the other values of these activities in terms of employment,

1488
01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:24,599
Speaker 1: in terms of sales tax revenues, you know, in terms

1489
01:37:24,600 --> 01:37:27,760
Speaker 1: of all those other benefits, employment generation and so on

1490
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:31,360
Speaker 1: and so forth that has been associated with the hunting

1491
01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:35,080
Speaker 1: an angelic world. And we're going to add this massive

1492
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:40,920
Speaker 1: food value, which again no one has ever conceived of doing.

1493
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:47,360
Speaker 1: And finally we're going to give the counter factual, which

1494
01:37:47,400 --> 01:37:50,880
Speaker 1: is to say, to be okay, let's say we stop

1495
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:55,880
Speaker 1: these activities now today, including the new activities that have

1496
01:37:55,960 --> 01:37:58,559
Speaker 1: started both our countries as a result of covide, where

1497
01:37:58,600 --> 01:38:03,360
Speaker 1: people are desperately on fish and spend time on the outdoors.

1498
01:38:03,479 --> 01:38:07,360
Speaker 1: Let's say we stop these activities. What is it going

1499
01:38:07,439 --> 01:38:10,280
Speaker 1: to cost in terms of the land that must be taken,

1500
01:38:10,720 --> 01:38:14,760
Speaker 1: The wild life habitat must be taken further to provide

1501
01:38:14,840 --> 01:38:20,759
Speaker 1: both ranging space for domestic animals and also to raise

1502
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:23,760
Speaker 1: the crops that we use, of course largely to feed them,

1503
01:38:24,240 --> 01:38:26,599
Speaker 1: the wheats and the corns and someone and so forth.

1504
01:38:27,160 --> 01:38:29,640
Speaker 1: And how much fossil fuel will that require, and how

1505
01:38:29,720 --> 01:38:34,280
Speaker 1: much fertilizer and how much insecticide, etcetera, etcetera, etc. And

1506
01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:36,639
Speaker 1: let me add beIN that that's not to condemn what's

1507
01:38:36,680 --> 01:38:39,719
Speaker 1: going on in agriculture. We need industrial agriculture, of course

1508
01:38:39,760 --> 01:38:41,960
Speaker 1: we do. And that's getting better and better and better

1509
01:38:42,320 --> 01:38:45,120
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways all the time, particularly for cattle.

1510
01:38:45,760 --> 01:38:50,799
Speaker 1: People are doing great things with cattle and with sheep um.

1511
01:38:51,000 --> 01:38:55,200
Speaker 1: But I want people to know that there is actually

1512
01:38:55,200 --> 01:38:58,120
Speaker 1: a source of wild flood and of what and not

1513
01:38:58,160 --> 01:39:03,000
Speaker 1: only the meat and the fish, but while beares, while fruits,

1514
01:39:03,200 --> 01:39:09,440
Speaker 1: while fungi or mushrooms, while rices, medicinal plants shed, antlers, firewood,

1515
01:39:09,640 --> 01:39:13,519
Speaker 1: all these kinds of things. And so the wild harvest

1516
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:19,000
Speaker 1: initiative is this expansive idea void up by data. But

1517
01:39:19,160 --> 01:39:21,400
Speaker 1: we can tell you what it's worth in Nebraska, where

1518
01:39:21,439 --> 01:39:23,800
Speaker 1: we can tell you what it's worth in Alberta, where

1519
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:26,719
Speaker 1: we can tell you what elk are, how much elk

1520
01:39:26,840 --> 01:39:29,599
Speaker 1: is generating, how much food and wild turkeys that you're

1521
01:39:29,640 --> 01:39:32,679
Speaker 1: hunting now how much that how much they are providing

1522
01:39:32,720 --> 01:39:36,599
Speaker 1: to the world. And so we now have this database, um,

1523
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:41,400
Speaker 1: and we are working on equivalence. We've come out with

1524
01:39:41,560 --> 01:39:45,320
Speaker 1: certain amounts of information from this this this activity already.

1525
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:49,120
Speaker 1: We're now working with a public relations firm to come

1526
01:39:49,120 --> 01:39:53,320
Speaker 1: out with a fairly sophisticated slow release of this data

1527
01:39:53,400 --> 01:39:55,080
Speaker 1: so that it's you know, doesn't come out in one

1528
01:39:55,120 --> 01:39:59,080
Speaker 1: big arm, so that people can digest it. And the

1529
01:39:59,120 --> 01:40:02,560
Speaker 1: hope wills that we are going to build an alliance

1530
01:40:02,600 --> 01:40:08,920
Speaker 1: of people who harvest from nature, fishermen, the hunter, the

1531
01:40:09,040 --> 01:40:13,719
Speaker 1: berry the fruit gathering, the mushroom gathering. It isn't apply

1532
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:16,840
Speaker 1: all these people who take things from the wild and

1533
01:40:16,920 --> 01:40:21,000
Speaker 1: bring them together and have them represent a component of

1534
01:40:21,000 --> 01:40:27,599
Speaker 1: our societies, and then also encourage them to speak with

1535
01:40:27,640 --> 01:40:31,720
Speaker 1: one voice, because these lands that provide these products are

1536
01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:36,360
Speaker 1: the same lands in all cases. And the final thing

1537
01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:39,360
Speaker 1: that we are doing each of these is among numantal

1538
01:40:39,439 --> 01:40:43,400
Speaker 1: tasks you might be aware. Um. The other thing we're

1539
01:40:43,439 --> 01:40:48,000
Speaker 1: doing is we're running surveys in states where we are

1540
01:40:48,080 --> 01:40:51,160
Speaker 1: asking the hunter's first, and we will do but the

1541
01:40:51,200 --> 01:40:56,040
Speaker 1: hunters first, how much of their food they share, who

1542
01:40:56,080 --> 01:40:59,280
Speaker 1: they share it? With why they share it with people,

1543
01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:04,440
Speaker 1: because we want to also demonstrate that the people who

1544
01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:10,880
Speaker 1: live this lifestyle today do exactly the same thing that

1545
01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:15,120
Speaker 1: we did as hunter gatherers through the long arc of

1546
01:41:15,280 --> 01:41:22,400
Speaker 1: our evolutionary history. We shared. Not everyone hunted their own food,

1547
01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:25,240
Speaker 1: we did it together and we shared it with those

1548
01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:28,640
Speaker 1: who were not with us at And you and I

1549
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:32,639
Speaker 1: both know that that is a phenomenon of the hunting

1550
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:35,920
Speaker 1: anglic world that we share. But it's also true of

1551
01:41:35,920 --> 01:41:38,839
Speaker 1: the berry picker and the fruit picker, and the fungi

1552
01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:42,920
Speaker 1: gatherer and so on. We are condemned to share, but

1553
01:41:43,080 --> 01:41:48,840
Speaker 1: we harvest from the wild, and this also unites us

1554
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:53,120
Speaker 1: is wide consortium with people who are harvesting. We are

1555
01:41:53,240 --> 01:41:57,679
Speaker 1: united and only by the knowledge we gain, the talents

1556
01:41:57,720 --> 01:42:01,799
Speaker 1: we have, the things we sue in that same space

1557
01:42:01,880 --> 01:42:06,600
Speaker 1: of land. We are also united by this desire to

1558
01:42:06,840 --> 01:42:13,639
Speaker 1: share what we have. When your grandmother bakes pie made

1559
01:42:13,720 --> 01:42:20,280
Speaker 1: from wild berries gathered by her rancho, that pie hasn't

1560
01:42:20,320 --> 01:42:24,320
Speaker 1: that so far beyond one that is bought in a

1561
01:42:24,439 --> 01:42:30,479
Speaker 1: store that it is immeasurable? Yeah? Yeah, the power in

1562
01:42:30,560 --> 01:42:34,599
Speaker 1: that man, it's it's an aid. And I feel, I

1563
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:36,840
Speaker 1: feel your passion for it when you speak as always

1564
01:42:36,920 --> 01:42:41,200
Speaker 1: with everything that you say, and um man, I really

1565
01:42:41,320 --> 01:42:43,400
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. I've been thinking that's one of

1566
01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:45,120
Speaker 1: the reasons I reached out to you. One. I enjoy

1567
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:48,679
Speaker 1: our conversations, but I wanted to get an update about

1568
01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:52,920
Speaker 1: the data that you've been compiling. Um I may go

1569
01:42:53,080 --> 01:42:55,400
Speaker 1: so far as to ask you if there's anything in it.

1570
01:42:55,439 --> 01:42:57,200
Speaker 1: You don't want to break any news on this podcast

1571
01:42:57,200 --> 01:43:02,800
Speaker 1: and share some data that maybe you haven't. But beyond yeah,

1572
01:43:02,840 --> 01:43:04,960
Speaker 1: I mean, what I can what I can tell you

1573
01:43:05,120 --> 01:43:08,920
Speaker 1: is that even if you look at I mean, we

1574
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:11,479
Speaker 1: obviously have a strategy for coming out with this information,

1575
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:13,320
Speaker 1: and we continue to build the database. As a matter

1576
01:43:13,320 --> 01:43:15,160
Speaker 1: of fact, we had a series of meetings with a

1577
01:43:15,160 --> 01:43:20,120
Speaker 1: big database company today. This has become a very big thing.

1578
01:43:20,920 --> 01:43:27,000
Speaker 1: Um it's and it may well soon take root in

1579
01:43:27,080 --> 01:43:32,200
Speaker 1: Africa and discussions about that. Um so. But anyway, it

1580
01:43:32,280 --> 01:43:34,160
Speaker 1: has become a very big thing. But even if you

1581
01:43:34,200 --> 01:43:37,240
Speaker 1: look at you know, some of the some of the

1582
01:43:37,600 --> 01:43:41,439
Speaker 1: statistics that we have, I mean, you look at a

1583
01:43:41,479 --> 01:43:45,440
Speaker 1: species like white tailed deer that in and of itself

1584
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:48,479
Speaker 1: is providing between maybe one and a half and two

1585
01:43:48,520 --> 01:43:54,120
Speaker 1: billion meals billion the b you know, you look at

1586
01:43:54,120 --> 01:43:58,799
Speaker 1: a circumstance where you look at a circumstance where turkeys

1587
01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:02,320
Speaker 1: which you are which would you are pursuing now that

1588
01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:06,559
Speaker 1: that that are contributing somewhere around twenty million meals based

1589
01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:09,559
Speaker 1: on you know, six our servings of that animal, I mean,

1590
01:44:09,600 --> 01:44:12,000
Speaker 1: and you add that up across all the species that

1591
01:44:12,040 --> 01:44:14,639
Speaker 1: we are hunting, and all the fish that we are fishing,

1592
01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:17,720
Speaker 1: and and then all the other natural foods that we

1593
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:21,760
Speaker 1: are gathering. This is no side show. This is this

1594
01:44:21,840 --> 01:44:26,720
Speaker 1: is not parochial, you know, throwback. This is not this

1595
01:44:26,800 --> 01:44:29,479
Speaker 1: is not immaterial. And for the individual families that are

1596
01:44:29,479 --> 01:44:32,760
Speaker 1: harvesting this, it's absolutely vital to their home economy, to

1597
01:44:32,880 --> 01:44:35,360
Speaker 1: the small communities in which they live. It is vital

1598
01:44:35,479 --> 01:44:40,320
Speaker 1: to those communities. And obviously it has enormous implications for

1599
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:44,320
Speaker 1: the sustainability of of rural people that rural local livelihoods

1600
01:44:44,320 --> 01:44:47,120
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. And this is this

1601
01:44:47,200 --> 01:44:50,200
Speaker 1: is the lifeblood of nations, the character of the people

1602
01:44:50,240 --> 01:44:54,439
Speaker 1: who live in those circumstances, and and and therefore, you know,

1603
01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:56,960
Speaker 1: we have to look at this as not just oh,

1604
01:44:57,000 --> 01:44:59,240
Speaker 1: you know, there's been oh yeah, he's unto you know,

1605
01:44:59,280 --> 01:45:00,720
Speaker 1: he's a bit of a black. Oh, he goes out,

1606
01:45:00,760 --> 01:45:03,080
Speaker 1: you know, he likes to hunt turkey expense two weeks,

1607
01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:06,920
Speaker 1: run around South Dakota, you know, chasing, chasing these these

1608
01:45:06,960 --> 01:45:10,880
Speaker 1: these gobbly birds. It's it's much more, it's much, much,

1609
01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:16,280
Speaker 1: much more than that. And of course eventually, eventually, you know,

1610
01:45:16,360 --> 01:45:18,960
Speaker 1: you look at something like in Texas where we did

1611
01:45:18,960 --> 01:45:22,519
Speaker 1: the sharing survey, and you find out, you know, that

1612
01:45:22,880 --> 01:45:27,320
Speaker 1: nine of the hunters in that state share their food.

1613
01:45:28,240 --> 01:45:30,639
Speaker 1: But then you begin to ask, well, well, how much

1614
01:45:30,680 --> 01:45:33,679
Speaker 1: of their harvest do they share? They share about forty

1615
01:45:33,680 --> 01:45:36,880
Speaker 1: three percent of it, and they actually share it with

1616
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:41,880
Speaker 1: more people outside their homes three point seven million people

1617
01:45:42,320 --> 01:45:45,599
Speaker 1: outside their homes than they do inside their homes, which

1618
01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:49,599
Speaker 1: accounts for another two point one million people like these

1619
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:52,360
Speaker 1: are These are big numbers. Now you multiply them across

1620
01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:54,800
Speaker 1: every state in the United States of America, and you

1621
01:45:54,880 --> 01:45:58,280
Speaker 1: multiply that across every province in Canada. I am on

1622
01:45:58,320 --> 01:46:03,840
Speaker 1: a mission to convince American policy and political leaders that

1623
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:06,559
Speaker 1: we ought to be looking at landscapes as food and

1624
01:46:06,640 --> 01:46:10,960
Speaker 1: health reservoirs, and whether it's public or private land, we

1625
01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:12,840
Speaker 1: should be looking at this to the best of our

1626
01:46:12,880 --> 01:46:16,519
Speaker 1: abilities with the most sensible and sensitive policies that we

1627
01:46:16,560 --> 01:46:19,719
Speaker 1: can come up with instead of only looking at land

1628
01:46:19,720 --> 01:46:22,800
Speaker 1: as something undeveloped, you know, something that we need to

1629
01:46:22,840 --> 01:46:27,360
Speaker 1: do something else with. And furthermore, because of the science

1630
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:30,360
Speaker 1: of wildlife management is so sophisticated today compared to what

1631
01:46:30,360 --> 01:46:33,360
Speaker 1: it was, let's say, turn of the twentieth century or

1632
01:46:33,360 --> 01:46:36,120
Speaker 1: the turn of the nineteenth century. Just imagine if we

1633
01:46:36,200 --> 01:46:41,600
Speaker 1: applied our wildlife management science and our forestry science two

1634
01:46:42,560 --> 01:46:47,679
Speaker 1: managing landscapes for food production wild food production? How much

1635
01:46:47,720 --> 01:46:51,200
Speaker 1: do you think we could It would be absolutely annoyst

1636
01:46:52,160 --> 01:46:54,559
Speaker 1: So if there is a new mission for Shane Mahoney,

1637
01:46:54,560 --> 01:46:58,080
Speaker 1: it is to get our two countries, and our political

1638
01:46:58,160 --> 01:47:02,280
Speaker 1: leaderships and our NGEO is in our state governments and

1639
01:47:02,400 --> 01:47:06,240
Speaker 1: our whoever the hell we can find, to actually start

1640
01:47:07,160 --> 01:47:13,120
Speaker 1: advocating for an entirely new management system for landscapes, one

1641
01:47:13,240 --> 01:47:19,240
Speaker 1: that ultimately is based on human health and food provisioning. Well,

1642
01:47:19,520 --> 01:47:24,120
Speaker 1: that's a as you well know, it's a very ambitious endeavor.

1643
01:47:24,240 --> 01:47:26,519
Speaker 1: But I think this is you are the exact person

1644
01:47:26,560 --> 01:47:30,280
Speaker 1: to take on such a broad challenge. Um, and I

1645
01:47:30,360 --> 01:47:34,360
Speaker 1: know that there are challenges in exploring something so vast

1646
01:47:34,400 --> 01:47:38,360
Speaker 1: across our even just our continent. So what challenges have

1647
01:47:38,439 --> 01:47:40,800
Speaker 1: you run into and what things do you you know,

1648
01:47:40,840 --> 01:47:44,080
Speaker 1: what hurdles are you overcoming, and how do you feel

1649
01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:45,800
Speaker 1: like you push forward into the future to get to

1650
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:48,679
Speaker 1: this this moment where you all to have this case

1651
01:47:48,760 --> 01:47:53,559
Speaker 1: that you can state, um what they think that I

1652
01:47:53,560 --> 01:47:55,960
Speaker 1: think there are practical challenges, you know, there's challenges of

1653
01:47:56,400 --> 01:48:00,320
Speaker 1: the resources that Conservation Visions has to mobile. As this

1654
01:48:00,400 --> 01:48:02,960
Speaker 1: monster's activity, we could use ten times the money and

1655
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:06,799
Speaker 1: support that's that's out there. God knows if any industry

1656
01:48:06,920 --> 01:48:09,280
Speaker 1: or NGOs or other people are listening and they what

1657
01:48:09,439 --> 01:48:11,400
Speaker 1: they believe in this kind of a cause, you know,

1658
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:14,200
Speaker 1: we can use that because of course accuses more people

1659
01:48:14,280 --> 01:48:18,720
Speaker 1: and more more materials, more social profile, more all the

1660
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:22,400
Speaker 1: things that are out there. Uh. I think the other

1661
01:48:22,439 --> 01:48:24,640
Speaker 1: thing that's a that's a real challenge, of course, is

1662
01:48:24,680 --> 01:48:28,400
Speaker 1: we have to find a way. It's it's it's long term, right.

1663
01:48:28,479 --> 01:48:31,599
Speaker 1: You cannot been just come out with something and throw

1664
01:48:31,640 --> 01:48:34,080
Speaker 1: it out there in press release or write in one

1665
01:48:34,160 --> 01:48:36,639
Speaker 1: article in magazine and hey, that's great, you know that's

1666
01:48:36,680 --> 01:48:40,560
Speaker 1: done that stating walk away. It's this is this is

1667
01:48:40,600 --> 01:48:44,599
Speaker 1: a matter just like the North American Model concept. It

1668
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:48,360
Speaker 1: has to be continuously dripped out as have to find

1669
01:48:48,479 --> 01:48:53,360
Speaker 1: new audiences, new venues, new spokespeople's new supporters for this

1670
01:48:53,520 --> 01:48:55,920
Speaker 1: kind of activity, you know, and they have to come

1671
01:48:55,960 --> 01:48:57,559
Speaker 1: from all walks of life. As I said, they have

1672
01:48:57,600 --> 01:48:59,760
Speaker 1: to be businessman and they have to be you know,

1673
01:49:00,000 --> 01:49:03,280
Speaker 1: observation NGOs, and they have to be hunting organizations. They

1674
01:49:03,320 --> 01:49:06,240
Speaker 1: had to be have to be everything the medical profession

1675
01:49:06,280 --> 01:49:08,160
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth which should be more

1676
01:49:08,200 --> 01:49:11,160
Speaker 1: involved in this than they are. So you know that

1677
01:49:11,320 --> 01:49:14,880
Speaker 1: that's that's a that's a challenge how to how to

1678
01:49:15,080 --> 01:49:18,160
Speaker 1: keep people committed to understanding that I have to give

1679
01:49:18,200 --> 01:49:20,800
Speaker 1: it over the long term. If the discussions on the

1680
01:49:20,840 --> 01:49:23,479
Speaker 1: North American Model had in two years after we first

1681
01:49:23,479 --> 01:49:26,880
Speaker 1: started to talk about it, after Dr Geist you know,

1682
01:49:27,160 --> 01:49:30,240
Speaker 1: came up the concept. If I started speaking about that

1683
01:49:30,280 --> 01:49:32,360
Speaker 1: in the United States for a year and then said, Okay,

1684
01:49:32,360 --> 01:49:34,519
Speaker 1: but that's it, I'm gonna talk about that. Do you

1685
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:38,320
Speaker 1: really think that that would be invented in our systems? Yeah?

1686
01:49:38,920 --> 01:49:41,000
Speaker 1: Do do you think this is an evolution of the

1687
01:49:41,040 --> 01:49:44,560
Speaker 1: North American model or or a bolt on an addition

1688
01:49:44,640 --> 01:49:46,720
Speaker 1: to it? How would you describe it in relation to

1689
01:49:46,760 --> 01:49:50,439
Speaker 1: the model. That's a really that's a really good question.

1690
01:49:50,640 --> 01:49:52,759
Speaker 1: That's a lot of questions, but that's a really cool

1691
01:49:53,240 --> 01:50:00,160
Speaker 1: because what I see this being is the discovery of

1692
01:50:00,200 --> 01:50:04,920
Speaker 1: a pround of a profound truth within myself and within

1693
01:50:06,000 --> 01:50:10,840
Speaker 1: all people who engage with nature and particularly engage with

1694
01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:14,439
Speaker 1: nature in the food acquisition way all over the world,

1695
01:50:14,760 --> 01:50:18,320
Speaker 1: not just in word, and in a way it is

1696
01:50:18,360 --> 01:50:22,800
Speaker 1: not so much an evolution of the model, although it

1697
01:50:22,880 --> 01:50:27,519
Speaker 1: has deep direct implications and relevancies to the model, as

1698
01:50:27,920 --> 01:50:32,880
Speaker 1: you won't clearly see um because it deals with hunting

1699
01:50:32,880 --> 01:50:36,280
Speaker 1: and angling and all those things of course, evaluations of

1700
01:50:36,320 --> 01:50:40,599
Speaker 1: the resource and so forth management. But in a way

1701
01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:46,559
Speaker 1: I would look at it in reverse. I think to

1702
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:52,000
Speaker 1: some extent, this issue is the start of the model

1703
01:50:53,200 --> 01:50:56,880
Speaker 1: in a way interesting. You know, we we wanted to

1704
01:50:56,920 --> 01:51:02,559
Speaker 1: protect wildlife that was disappearing, and we wanted to find

1705
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:07,360
Speaker 1: ways to to be really effective in doing that. And

1706
01:51:08,080 --> 01:51:10,880
Speaker 1: part of the motivation, of course for keeping wildlife with

1707
01:51:11,000 --> 01:51:13,400
Speaker 1: us was of course to be able to harvest it

1708
01:51:13,960 --> 01:51:16,120
Speaker 1: and to and to hunt it and to fish, and

1709
01:51:16,160 --> 01:51:19,200
Speaker 1: of course there was always a huge component of that

1710
01:51:19,200 --> 01:51:21,600
Speaker 1: that was about food. We didn't talk about it so

1711
01:51:21,680 --> 01:51:23,880
Speaker 1: much that way, but that's what it was about. I mean,

1712
01:51:24,160 --> 01:51:26,599
Speaker 1: we didn't we didn't create the model and all its

1713
01:51:26,600 --> 01:51:28,639
Speaker 1: policies and laws and then say we'll go out, out,

1714
01:51:28,720 --> 01:51:31,040
Speaker 1: out and out and then just leave the animals in

1715
01:51:31,160 --> 01:51:36,280
Speaker 1: every single state and province development in the model rules, regulations,

1716
01:51:36,360 --> 01:51:40,599
Speaker 1: laws that said you cannot waste that animal. You know,

1717
01:51:41,280 --> 01:51:43,680
Speaker 1: you take that meat out and you use it in

1718
01:51:43,800 --> 01:51:47,680
Speaker 1: some form of fashion. So in a way, this was

1719
01:51:47,920 --> 01:51:49,800
Speaker 1: this was the in some ways, it was at the

1720
01:51:49,920 --> 01:51:53,719
Speaker 1: very origins of the moment. But we never talked about

1721
01:51:54,560 --> 01:51:58,560
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about game laws, we talked about regulations,

1722
01:51:58,640 --> 01:52:02,440
Speaker 1: and we talked about hunting clubs, and we talked about habitats,

1723
01:52:02,439 --> 01:52:05,519
Speaker 1: we talked all around it, but we never talked about

1724
01:52:05,560 --> 01:52:09,879
Speaker 1: this idea of food. And of course the North American

1725
01:52:09,920 --> 01:52:17,759
Speaker 1: model itself is in a way just a modern part

1726
01:52:17,920 --> 01:52:22,240
Speaker 1: of the long history of humanity's engagement with the natural

1727
01:52:22,320 --> 01:52:29,240
Speaker 1: world for consumption, for the gathering food, capture of animals,

1728
01:52:29,320 --> 01:52:31,679
Speaker 1: the possession of animals, and so on and so forth,

1729
01:52:32,479 --> 01:52:35,559
Speaker 1: and so in some ways it goes way way back

1730
01:52:35,640 --> 01:52:40,280
Speaker 1: before the model. Mhm um. So I don't see it

1731
01:52:40,360 --> 01:52:45,400
Speaker 1: as so much an outcome of the model, although I

1732
01:52:45,479 --> 01:52:49,240
Speaker 1: know why you asked that question. I almost see it

1733
01:52:49,320 --> 01:52:51,840
Speaker 1: as something that was at the origin of the model,

1734
01:52:53,400 --> 01:52:55,160
Speaker 1: but we had to go back to the beginnings to

1735
01:52:55,200 --> 01:53:01,360
Speaker 1: really think about Yeah, and it will as profound questions

1736
01:53:02,200 --> 01:53:07,400
Speaker 1: as it gains more and more influence. But and as

1737
01:53:07,439 --> 01:53:10,240
Speaker 1: we do the surveys in Arizona and in Texas and

1738
01:53:10,240 --> 01:53:14,680
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin and in Nevada, which boys to do now, uh,

1739
01:53:15,320 --> 01:53:18,519
Speaker 1: you know, we will have so much information to bring

1740
01:53:18,560 --> 01:53:23,080
Speaker 1: to people. I think it is going to raise issues

1741
01:53:23,439 --> 01:53:28,120
Speaker 1: around the model, like, well, how how do we gain

1742
01:53:28,200 --> 01:53:30,920
Speaker 1: access to all this great meat? If I'm not a hunter?

1743
01:53:31,920 --> 01:53:36,640
Speaker 1: Should I be able to buy that? Not everybody's going

1744
01:53:36,720 --> 01:53:39,120
Speaker 1: to hunter and angler and things of that nature. So

1745
01:53:39,160 --> 01:53:42,320
Speaker 1: it will it will challenge certain principles of the model

1746
01:53:42,360 --> 01:53:44,680
Speaker 1: in certain ways. And of course that's a good thing.

1747
01:53:44,960 --> 01:53:47,919
Speaker 1: That's a that's a really good thing. The most important

1748
01:53:47,920 --> 01:53:52,120
Speaker 1: things that the model is about value wildlife. That's ultimately

1749
01:53:52,120 --> 01:53:55,040
Speaker 1: what it was about. Sprang from that. We will not

1750
01:53:55,160 --> 01:53:57,600
Speaker 1: lose it. We had to give it a value. And

1751
01:53:57,680 --> 01:54:01,439
Speaker 1: this whole wild Harvest admission is about talking about giving

1752
01:54:01,479 --> 01:54:05,280
Speaker 1: wildlife of value that no one has ever quantified before, ever,

1753
01:54:05,800 --> 01:54:10,200
Speaker 1: ever in the history of the model. I love that

1754
01:54:10,240 --> 01:54:12,120
Speaker 1: you say it that way with value, you know, because

1755
01:54:12,120 --> 01:54:14,720
Speaker 1: there is as we've talked about, there's political like this

1756
01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:17,519
Speaker 1: would add a political value to to wildlife and wild

1757
01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:20,519
Speaker 1: places that they don't currently have. It would add to

1758
01:54:20,680 --> 01:54:24,679
Speaker 1: and butcher's the cultural value that that wildlife and hunting

1759
01:54:24,800 --> 01:54:27,559
Speaker 1: and wild food share. I mean, just you can add

1760
01:54:27,680 --> 01:54:30,960
Speaker 1: you know, economical value. Obviously you're really just kind of

1761
01:54:31,000 --> 01:54:35,920
Speaker 1: codifying and packaging up what's what's already there. Um. But

1762
01:54:36,000 --> 01:54:38,640
Speaker 1: I really do appreciate as as as I tell a

1763
01:54:38,680 --> 01:54:40,200
Speaker 1: lot of people that listen to this show and that

1764
01:54:40,280 --> 01:54:44,280
Speaker 1: are um that participate actively in what we do. The

1765
01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:48,600
Speaker 1: North American model has become, you know, the the guardrails

1766
01:54:48,640 --> 01:54:51,080
Speaker 1: for how I think about many things within our space.

1767
01:54:51,280 --> 01:54:54,360
Speaker 1: And uh, I've tried to describe it in many ways,

1768
01:54:54,360 --> 01:54:56,720
Speaker 1: Shane and I used to think it kind of I

1769
01:54:56,800 --> 01:54:58,640
Speaker 1: used to look at it as kind of a bit

1770
01:54:58,640 --> 01:55:01,040
Speaker 1: of the Bible, like the Acre Text, and then I

1771
01:55:02,240 --> 01:55:04,280
Speaker 1: didn't think that was giving it the credit it deserved,

1772
01:55:04,280 --> 01:55:06,240
Speaker 1: because it's not meant to be a sacred text, right

1773
01:55:06,280 --> 01:55:08,440
Speaker 1: It's it's meant to be it's meant to be a

1774
01:55:09,160 --> 01:55:12,000
Speaker 1: value system and explanation of value system and the practical

1775
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:16,040
Speaker 1: application of said value system, you know, and and um man,

1776
01:55:16,080 --> 01:55:18,840
Speaker 1: I've I've learned a lot over our time, folks that

1777
01:55:18,880 --> 01:55:21,200
Speaker 1: you can go back and listen to Shane and I

1778
01:55:21,200 --> 01:55:23,520
Speaker 1: did I believe it was a two part podcast. It

1779
01:55:23,600 --> 01:55:25,800
Speaker 1: might have been years ago now, um on in the

1780
01:55:25,840 --> 01:55:28,920
Speaker 1: North American model, Uh, we'd probably go more two or

1781
01:55:28,960 --> 01:55:32,000
Speaker 1: three more hours just talking about that. But what we have,

1782
01:55:32,240 --> 01:55:34,760
Speaker 1: what I know you mentioned to me a while back,

1783
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:39,160
Speaker 1: like the seminal conversation or or Shane's explanation of the model,

1784
01:55:39,200 --> 01:55:42,280
Speaker 1: all encapsulated in those earlier podcasts, So you can always

1785
01:55:42,280 --> 01:55:44,080
Speaker 1: go even when the show ends, you can always return

1786
01:55:44,120 --> 01:55:47,120
Speaker 1: back to those um to me, Shane, These these conversations

1787
01:55:47,160 --> 01:55:50,760
Speaker 1: become you know, time capsules for for where we were

1788
01:55:51,280 --> 01:55:55,040
Speaker 1: over these last three years, both personally and professionally, and

1789
01:55:55,040 --> 01:55:58,960
Speaker 1: then where our community has has has gone. So, um,

1790
01:55:59,120 --> 01:56:02,320
Speaker 1: where can people we can find the wild Harvest initiative

1791
01:56:02,480 --> 01:56:05,880
Speaker 1: through conservation visions? But specifically, what would you ask people

1792
01:56:05,920 --> 01:56:08,240
Speaker 1: to do if they're interested in neither learning about it,

1793
01:56:08,320 --> 01:56:12,160
Speaker 1: participating giving I mean, I think they should just really

1794
01:56:12,160 --> 01:56:15,360
Speaker 1: get in touch with us, because we are welcoming new

1795
01:56:15,360 --> 01:56:18,920
Speaker 1: partners all the time, even in this COVID year. Um,

1796
01:56:18,960 --> 01:56:22,800
Speaker 1: you know, the State of Alaska, the Alastaficient Game Department,

1797
01:56:23,560 --> 01:56:28,560
Speaker 1: the State of Wyoming, um New Mexico Wildlife Federation. And

1798
01:56:28,880 --> 01:56:32,200
Speaker 1: now we have a number of conversations going on with

1799
01:56:32,320 --> 01:56:35,000
Speaker 1: very interesting new businesses that had nothing to do with

1800
01:56:35,080 --> 01:56:38,600
Speaker 1: the hunting space at all, which is really encouraging. And

1801
01:56:38,760 --> 01:56:43,400
Speaker 1: with some international funders now have expressed discovered us and

1802
01:56:43,560 --> 01:56:47,720
Speaker 1: expecially interested in doing something. Um. You know, we are

1803
01:56:47,760 --> 01:56:53,400
Speaker 1: welcoming new partners, new supporters, and we want them to

1804
01:56:53,440 --> 01:56:57,400
Speaker 1: be diverse. So if there's a medical doctor who we

1805
01:56:57,440 --> 01:57:00,680
Speaker 1: know the medical benefits of course of time outdoors and

1806
01:57:00,720 --> 01:57:03,360
Speaker 1: wat foods and so on and so forth, anyone can

1807
01:57:03,400 --> 01:57:07,080
Speaker 1: simply reach out to us and it can be just

1808
01:57:07,160 --> 01:57:12,240
Speaker 1: for a conversation, h or it can be to figure

1809
01:57:12,240 --> 01:57:16,600
Speaker 1: out how they can uh, you know, personally get involved.

1810
01:57:16,640 --> 01:57:19,160
Speaker 1: And I think I'll turn this this this back on

1811
01:57:19,280 --> 01:57:22,440
Speaker 1: you a little bit man. Uh. You know, you have

1812
01:57:22,520 --> 01:57:25,480
Speaker 1: a lot of connections, you know, a lot of organizations

1813
01:57:25,520 --> 01:57:28,760
Speaker 1: and a lot of individuals. I'd ask you to encourage

1814
01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:31,240
Speaker 1: them to reach out to us too and talk to

1815
01:57:31,360 --> 01:57:34,040
Speaker 1: us about you know, and see there's many ways to

1816
01:57:34,080 --> 01:57:38,600
Speaker 1: get involved at many different levels. And if this is

1817
01:57:38,640 --> 01:57:42,280
Speaker 1: going to succeed. You know it's going to succeed, largely

1818
01:57:42,320 --> 01:57:46,520
Speaker 1: because the alliance that we've built around is so new,

1819
01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:52,800
Speaker 1: intriguing and inclusive that no political aisle is going to

1820
01:57:52,840 --> 01:57:56,080
Speaker 1: be too wide for it to jump. Yeah, well I can.

1821
01:57:56,160 --> 01:57:59,720
Speaker 1: I can leave this conversation, um our last on on

1822
01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:03,040
Speaker 1: the Hunting Collective, promising you that I will put you know,

1823
01:58:03,080 --> 01:58:06,000
Speaker 1: the powers that I have limited or as broad as

1824
01:58:06,040 --> 01:58:09,440
Speaker 1: they may be, into into not only having this conversation

1825
01:58:09,560 --> 01:58:11,760
Speaker 1: and letting people know about it, but but pushing people

1826
01:58:11,800 --> 01:58:16,760
Speaker 1: to contact you and ask you questions and and look

1827
01:58:16,800 --> 01:58:19,600
Speaker 1: at the results when they start to roll out. UM.

1828
01:58:19,800 --> 01:58:21,760
Speaker 1: I know that I've been happy to see back Hunt

1829
01:58:21,760 --> 01:58:24,880
Speaker 1: your hunters and anglers getting involved with you as I

1830
01:58:24,920 --> 01:58:26,880
Speaker 1: sit on the board there. That's been something that's been

1831
01:58:26,920 --> 01:58:32,560
Speaker 1: super important to me, and I'm glad. I am glad

1832
01:58:32,640 --> 01:58:34,680
Speaker 1: that they have have stepped up in the way that

1833
01:58:34,720 --> 01:58:36,840
Speaker 1: they have and that allowed you a voice and also

1834
01:58:36,920 --> 01:58:39,600
Speaker 1: been a partner of yours. So we'll continue to to

1835
01:58:39,760 --> 01:58:42,640
Speaker 1: push where we can. Um But Shane, as always, we

1836
01:58:42,640 --> 01:58:46,280
Speaker 1: could go hours more, but um, I have to actually

1837
01:58:46,320 --> 01:58:49,760
Speaker 1: go and kill a turkey if if, if you allow

1838
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:52,960
Speaker 1: me that absolutely I wouldn't keep any mad from that,

1839
01:58:53,160 --> 01:58:58,680
Speaker 1: and just remember to honor that fine bird when he stops.

1840
01:58:59,360 --> 01:59:02,920
Speaker 1: I have absolutely will. Yeah, it's it's funny. I'll leave

1841
01:59:02,960 --> 01:59:07,480
Speaker 1: you with that. This isn't something that I've been able

1842
01:59:07,560 --> 01:59:11,800
Speaker 1: to really self reflect on until recently, that when I

1843
01:59:11,840 --> 01:59:16,480
Speaker 1: shoot an animal and it's dying, I have, like I

1844
01:59:16,680 --> 01:59:19,440
Speaker 1: all emotion kind of leaves me. I get into a

1845
01:59:19,520 --> 01:59:24,320
Speaker 1: state of calm and weird almost sedation that I don't

1846
01:59:24,760 --> 01:59:29,080
Speaker 1: quite understand. I will, I want to celebrate and then

1847
01:59:29,200 --> 01:59:34,800
Speaker 1: do celebrate, you know, the achievement. Uh, and then and

1848
01:59:34,800 --> 01:59:38,200
Speaker 1: then go on about the work of honoring the bird

1849
01:59:38,240 --> 01:59:42,040
Speaker 1: and taking the meat. But even today when I shot

1850
01:59:42,080 --> 01:59:44,320
Speaker 1: I shot turkey this morning, and even today it was

1851
01:59:44,360 --> 01:59:47,360
Speaker 1: like there's like a weird sedation to to my own

1852
01:59:47,760 --> 01:59:49,680
Speaker 1: feeling when something dies. And I don't know that it's

1853
01:59:49,840 --> 01:59:53,840
Speaker 1: overly emotional or it's sad. I'm not sure I really

1854
01:59:54,040 --> 01:59:57,760
Speaker 1: understand it, to be quite quite honest with you, Um,

1855
01:59:57,880 --> 02:00:01,200
Speaker 1: but it's but it's interesting that that's my I own, Yeah,

1856
02:00:01,200 --> 02:00:05,800
Speaker 1: that's my own emotional state when something like that happens. UM,

1857
02:00:06,040 --> 02:00:09,440
Speaker 1: continue to explore it. Yeah, well, I mean it's a

1858
02:00:09,440 --> 02:00:12,320
Speaker 1: long life. There's lots of more I think the important

1859
02:00:12,320 --> 02:00:14,440
Speaker 1: thing is to reflect on it too, you know. I

1860
02:00:14,440 --> 02:00:20,360
Speaker 1: mean there's a there's a basic difference often between you know,

1861
02:00:20,400 --> 02:00:24,400
Speaker 1: what might be equally sensitive and equally intelligent the ampathetic

1862
02:00:24,600 --> 02:00:32,000
Speaker 1: human beings. Uh, there's one kind. You know. That sounds

1863
02:00:32,080 --> 02:00:37,560
Speaker 1: terrible because there are certain people who can live through

1864
02:00:37,920 --> 02:00:44,800
Speaker 1: and experience emotional events and and be very much in

1865
02:00:44,840 --> 02:00:49,840
Speaker 1: the moment aware of the specialness of But there are

1866
02:00:49,840 --> 02:00:52,160
Speaker 1: other people who could go through those same events and

1867
02:00:53,200 --> 02:01:00,680
Speaker 1: become really reflective. These are the poets. And uh, not

1868
02:01:00,760 --> 02:01:06,120
Speaker 1: all poets, right, poet really, some poets simply live poetic life.

1869
02:01:07,320 --> 02:01:10,640
Speaker 1: So that's what I would wish for you men, that

1870
02:01:10,800 --> 02:01:17,040
Speaker 1: you go forward to live poetic Yeah. Well, cheers cheers

1871
02:01:17,040 --> 02:01:19,600
Speaker 1: to that, Cheers to a poetic life. Shane Mahoney, thank

1872
02:01:19,640 --> 02:01:22,320
Speaker 1: you as always for joining us. You're a special person.

1873
02:01:23,240 --> 02:01:25,720
Speaker 1: You're important not only to me but to our community,

1874
02:01:26,400 --> 02:01:29,240
Speaker 1: and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you.

1875
02:01:29,280 --> 02:01:31,760
Speaker 1: And UM will continue to work together hopefully in the

1876
02:01:31,800 --> 02:01:36,200
Speaker 1: future on many many things, UM. And and congratulations on

1877
02:01:36,280 --> 02:01:38,960
Speaker 1: how far you've gotten with a wild Harvest initiative. And

1878
02:01:38,960 --> 02:01:41,760
Speaker 1: and UM we'll be working together, I know, to push

1879
02:01:41,800 --> 02:01:45,200
Speaker 1: that forward. So thank you. Once again. Thank you very

1880
02:01:45,280 --> 02:01:47,600
Speaker 1: much man, Thank you care of yourself, all of us.

1881
02:01:48,160 --> 02:02:00,760
Speaker 1: Bye bye bye. That's it. That's all another episode the

1882
02:02:00,800 --> 02:02:05,720
Speaker 1: Hunting Collective in the books. I am always thankful for

1883
02:02:05,880 --> 02:02:09,680
Speaker 1: guys like Shane Mahoney, for Van Fawsen, anyone out there

1884
02:02:09,680 --> 02:02:12,600
Speaker 1: who cares about wild places and conservation and the animals

1885
02:02:12,680 --> 02:02:15,240
Speaker 1: we chase. That is why I'm here, That's why we

1886
02:02:15,320 --> 02:02:18,520
Speaker 1: are here, presumably, and um, it makes me happy that

1887
02:02:18,560 --> 02:02:21,520
Speaker 1: we can do it for a few more weeks. Phil,

1888
02:02:21,560 --> 02:02:23,880
Speaker 1: did you get any messages from our our listeners after

1889
02:02:23,920 --> 02:02:27,120
Speaker 1: the announcement last week? I did. Yeah, I heard from

1890
02:02:27,160 --> 02:02:30,800
Speaker 1: Luke Reeves. A few other people may be rich. Um,

1891
02:02:30,840 --> 02:02:33,600
Speaker 1: just yeah, it means a lot. I told him, you know,

1892
02:02:33,680 --> 02:02:36,440
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Thanks a time for listening and for

1893
02:02:36,560 --> 02:02:39,720
Speaker 1: being such vibrant members of the community. Um. And I

1894
02:02:39,760 --> 02:02:42,480
Speaker 1: also just got one more Instagram post from about five

1895
02:02:42,520 --> 02:02:47,000
Speaker 1: minutes ago saying a comment on your latest Turkey picture,

1896
02:02:47,000 --> 02:02:51,560
Speaker 1: saying why doesn't Phil have one yet? Well, we've made

1897
02:02:51,600 --> 02:02:55,080
Speaker 1: him wait quite a long time, but coming up here

1898
02:02:55,120 --> 02:02:57,200
Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks, you're gonna get it. Me

1899
02:02:57,240 --> 02:02:58,720
Speaker 1: and Phil are gonna go out in the woods and

1900
02:02:58,720 --> 02:03:01,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna wrap up this podcas guests, and the only

1901
02:03:01,200 --> 02:03:03,400
Speaker 1: way that I could figure out how which is to

1902
02:03:03,440 --> 02:03:07,680
Speaker 1: take him turkey hunting and get him a turkey. Uh.

1903
02:03:07,760 --> 02:03:09,640
Speaker 1: So you know, stick and stay for that. We get

1904
02:03:09,680 --> 02:03:11,600
Speaker 1: a couple more episodes to go. I'm excited about the

1905
02:03:11,640 --> 02:03:14,280
Speaker 1: content we're gonna put out. I just wanted to say,

1906
02:03:14,360 --> 02:03:17,040
Speaker 1: uh me or what Phil said there a little bit

1907
02:03:17,280 --> 02:03:21,240
Speaker 1: and thank all of you for the well wishes, the

1908
02:03:21,320 --> 02:03:24,880
Speaker 1: heartfelt gratitude, all the things that came in over the

1909
02:03:24,960 --> 02:03:26,960
Speaker 1: last seven days. I've been Turkey Hunton, so I haven't

1910
02:03:26,960 --> 02:03:29,240
Speaker 1: been as connected as I would want to be, but

1911
02:03:29,360 --> 02:03:32,800
Speaker 1: I have seen all the messages, um, all the well

1912
02:03:32,840 --> 02:03:36,360
Speaker 1: wishes and and felt that. And I really do appreciate

1913
02:03:36,360 --> 02:03:38,320
Speaker 1: everybody for for sticking with us for a hundred and

1914
02:03:38,400 --> 02:03:43,320
Speaker 1: seventy some odd episodes. UM. There's no perfect ending for anything,

1915
02:03:43,960 --> 02:03:47,520
Speaker 1: uh this podcast included UM. But everything has to end,

1916
02:03:47,800 --> 02:03:49,640
Speaker 1: and so we're gonna make it the best we can

1917
02:03:49,880 --> 02:03:52,880
Speaker 1: for the weeks we have left, and I will I

1918
02:03:52,960 --> 02:03:55,240
Speaker 1: would extend my gratitude and thanks back to all of

1919
02:03:55,240 --> 02:03:57,920
Speaker 1: you who have listened for all these years, who have

1920
02:03:58,000 --> 02:04:01,240
Speaker 1: been a part of these conversations and have continued to

1921
02:04:01,280 --> 02:04:03,520
Speaker 1: support us, and I'm sure we'll continue to support us

1922
02:04:03,560 --> 02:04:06,560
Speaker 1: in the years to come as uh as my career

1923
02:04:06,600 --> 02:04:12,200
Speaker 1: and Fill's career at Meat Eater and likely beyond. What

1924
02:04:12,440 --> 02:04:15,960
Speaker 1: was that Phil's career and then that caused you a career? Well,

1925
02:04:16,000 --> 02:04:18,600
Speaker 1: because you're gonna become a famous hunter after you kill

1926
02:04:18,640 --> 02:04:21,200
Speaker 1: a turkey. That's right, Okay, I think your engineer days

1927
02:04:21,200 --> 02:04:23,960
Speaker 1: could be over. Maybe fill the hunter at the end

1928
02:04:23,960 --> 02:04:28,320
Speaker 1: of it all. You never really know, um, but yeah,

1929
02:04:28,320 --> 02:04:30,480
Speaker 1: I really there's there's not much more I can say

1930
02:04:30,600 --> 02:04:33,920
Speaker 1: other than thank you. Um. It's it's gonna be hard

1931
02:04:33,960 --> 02:04:35,680
Speaker 1: to see this thing in this is as I said

1932
02:04:35,800 --> 02:04:37,440
Speaker 1: last week, it's a big part of me. It's a

1933
02:04:37,440 --> 02:04:41,360
Speaker 1: big part of my life. Um. I've I've had I've had,

1934
02:04:42,000 --> 02:04:44,440
Speaker 1: you know, watch my kids be raised while we were

1935
02:04:44,440 --> 02:04:47,800
Speaker 1: recording this. Um. And maybe one day they'll they'll listen

1936
02:04:47,800 --> 02:04:49,680
Speaker 1: back to it and they'll get kind of a time

1937
02:04:49,680 --> 02:04:52,720
Speaker 1: capsule at these three years and and all of our lives.

1938
02:04:52,760 --> 02:04:55,040
Speaker 1: My life fills life a little bit to listen back

1939
02:04:55,080 --> 02:04:57,880
Speaker 1: to these episodes and learn about where we were and

1940
02:04:57,920 --> 02:05:01,000
Speaker 1: what we were thinking during these crazy years. Pandemics and

1941
02:05:01,000 --> 02:05:04,240
Speaker 1: and my second child being born and all the things

1942
02:05:04,280 --> 02:05:08,680
Speaker 1: that life events that have happened during this show and

1943
02:05:08,040 --> 02:05:10,520
Speaker 1: UM and it you know it won't go away. So

1944
02:05:10,560 --> 02:05:13,600
Speaker 1: if everybody that asks Meat Eater will keep the show up,

1945
02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:17,640
Speaker 1: all on seventy seven episodes will remain and you can

1946
02:05:17,680 --> 02:05:21,240
Speaker 1: listen to them whenever you like, uh and get and

1947
02:05:21,320 --> 02:05:23,560
Speaker 1: relive some of the cool conversation we've had over the

1948
02:05:23,600 --> 02:05:28,400
Speaker 1: last three years. So again, a heartfelt thank you to everybody, UM,

1949
02:05:28,600 --> 02:05:31,560
Speaker 1: to every listener, and especially you know, I want to

1950
02:05:31,720 --> 02:05:34,160
Speaker 1: if you'll, you'll let me feel I want to say

1951
02:05:34,160 --> 02:05:40,040
Speaker 1: thank you to one specific listener. Is that okay? Of course? So, uh,

1952
02:05:40,200 --> 02:05:43,000
Speaker 1: my dad listens to this podcast every week and we

1953
02:05:43,040 --> 02:05:46,120
Speaker 1: talked about it quite often, and we always talk about

1954
02:05:46,160 --> 02:05:48,800
Speaker 1: kind of how our dad's, many of us our dad's

1955
02:05:48,840 --> 02:05:51,000
Speaker 1: got us into hunting, how they kind of shepherd us

1956
02:05:51,040 --> 02:05:54,440
Speaker 1: into this lifestyle that's pursuits. But I have to just

1957
02:05:54,480 --> 02:05:59,280
Speaker 1: thank my dad not only for um being you know,

1958
02:05:59,400 --> 02:06:01,600
Speaker 1: my hero and the person I look up to, but

1959
02:06:01,840 --> 02:06:04,920
Speaker 1: for pushing me to do the best I can with

1960
02:06:04,960 --> 02:06:07,000
Speaker 1: everything in life and just being in it with me.

1961
02:06:07,600 --> 02:06:09,800
Speaker 1: I was explaining this to some of the other day.

1962
02:06:09,840 --> 02:06:12,560
Speaker 1: You know, when you're a parent and you feel like

1963
02:06:13,840 --> 02:06:16,560
Speaker 1: your parents or you're you're in it with your kids.

1964
02:06:16,600 --> 02:06:18,640
Speaker 1: You're you're in it for the ups and the downs,

1965
02:06:18,640 --> 02:06:20,720
Speaker 1: the highs and the lows, the good times and the

1966
02:06:20,720 --> 02:06:24,640
Speaker 1: bad times. You're just invested in their life. And I

1967
02:06:24,680 --> 02:06:27,600
Speaker 1: feel like my dad is right there with me for

1968
02:06:27,680 --> 02:06:30,920
Speaker 1: all the things that I've happened to me over the years,

1969
02:06:31,200 --> 02:06:34,080
Speaker 1: this podcast being one of them, and um, he was

1970
02:06:34,120 --> 02:06:36,440
Speaker 1: the reason, one of the reasons that got started. And

1971
02:06:37,320 --> 02:06:39,280
Speaker 1: if I had one listener and it was him, that

1972
02:06:39,320 --> 02:06:41,600
Speaker 1: would be the happiest I could be. So I want

1973
02:06:41,640 --> 02:06:45,120
Speaker 1: to say thank you, Dad, I love you, and we'll

1974
02:06:45,160 --> 02:06:47,840
Speaker 1: see you next week. On The Hunting Collective, say Bye Phil,

1975
02:06:48,080 --> 02:06:53,720
Speaker 1: Goodbye your Gun and turning your Bow, Where the Hunt

1976
02:06:53,840 --> 02:06:57,480
Speaker 1: clipt Show and calling Hunters New and all the Hunt

1977
02:06:57,560 --> 02:07:03,560
Speaker 1: Collected Show, Working picking Shuttle or working bening Han. We

1978
02:07:03,720 --> 02:07:09,160
Speaker 1: congregate nice lovers early la Bibul and we're focused. We're

1979
02:07:09,160 --> 02:07:12,520
Speaker 1: just living for the search and dreaming of the fire

1980
02:07:12,680 --> 02:07:16,880
Speaker 1: and a salty Gilburn. But we ain't coming back un

1981
02:07:16,880 --> 02:07:21,120
Speaker 1: till it's colden Lake taking its slow. So week she

1982
02:07:21,480 --> 02:07:26,080
Speaker 1: straight clean your gun to your bowl, Where the Hunt

1983
02:07:26,160 --> 02:07:30,320
Speaker 1: Gleggs Show, Calling Hunters New and all, Ain't no cold

1984
02:07:30,360 --> 02:07:30,920
Speaker 1: onime told,