1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: I'm never told your production of I Heart Radios how 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: stuff works. So, in our continuing effort to start out 4 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: a fresh and new or talking about something that was 5 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: huge and twenty nineteen and has actually been huge in 6 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: the last two days, we are talking about cancel culture. 7 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: Cancel culture. We'll check what you say. UM trigger warning, 8 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: very brief mention of sexual assault and very very brief 9 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: mention of suicidality. And yeah, this has been the source 10 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: of a ladd discussion and debate lately. In in twenty nineteen, 11 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: UM President Obama even spoke about it. He didn't mention 12 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: it by name, but both No, we know what you're 13 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: dragging about. Uh, so we're gonna talk about, Yes, cancel 14 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 1: culture and call out culture pretty closely related. Yes. So. 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: Definition Miriam Webster defines it cancel as to destroy the force, effectiveness, 16 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: or validity of so castle culture is when a person, 17 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: typically a celebrity our company, is called out for a 18 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: problematic opinion or behavior, usually something sexist, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, transphobic, 19 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 1: and often something from several years earlier, usually on social media, 20 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: and it boycotted by a large group of people. This 21 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: person or company that did this thing. This can hugely 22 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: negatively impact a person's career, our company's revenue like peloton um, 23 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: or it might not at all. There's a lot of 24 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: arguments out there about its effectiveness or not. It's a 25 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: way for communities to express their values. Calling out problematic 26 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: behavior is often one of the things that binds groups together. Right. 27 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: Mariam Webster credits black Twitter with coming up with quote 28 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: unquote soul culture in tift, bringing it into the mainstream. 29 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: From this specific definition, someone has expressed an objectionable opinion 30 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: or has conducted themselves in a way that is unacceptable, 31 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: and to continue to support them leaves a better taste 32 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: quote unquote yes and yeah. Twenty nineteen was a huge 33 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: year for it. If you look at Google trendstart of 34 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: cancel culture, it surged exponentially in twenty nineteen. It was 35 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: mcquarie Dictionaries Word of the Year, but that doesn't mean 36 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: it was new. One of the first prominent examples of 37 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: cancel culture took place in sixteen when hashtag Taylor Swift 38 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 1: is Canceled started trending after Kim Kardashian shared footage of 39 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: Kanye West alerting Taylor Swift to a provocative lyric involving 40 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: her in an upcoming song, and Swift thanked him for it, 41 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: even though she later stated that he had not warned her. 42 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: Once this footage was surfaced, Swift argue that she was 43 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: falsely being painted as a liar. It was too late. 44 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 1: Much of the Internet saw her continue to playing a 45 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: role of victim in the circle of celebrity life. Kanye 46 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: would face his own cancelation when he supported Trump and Yes, 47 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 1: you can't be canceled by who you support and who 48 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: supports you, and Kim regularly gets canceled over a harmful 49 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: spun kN and cultural appropriation. I was thinking today about 50 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 1: this song. Um, look what you made me do, Taylor. 51 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: She even says in there like I got mine, but 52 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: you'll all get You're right right as a slap back. 53 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: It's definitely a whole social scene to be canceled, almost 54 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: in a weird way. In a weird way anyway. So 55 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: another example took place in two eighteen when YouTube makeup 56 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: artist laure A Lee, which by the way, I thought 57 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: for a minute was the Engles brand. It took me 58 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: a minute. Um, she had racist tweets she previously made resurfaced, 59 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: and she lost three hundred thousand subscribers and several sponsorships 60 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: and other business connections. In response, she posted an apology 61 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: that was largely deemed as disingenuous and even turned into 62 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: a meme. Yeah. Yet another high profile case was Kevin Hart, 63 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: who stepped away from hosting the Oscars in twenty nineteen 64 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: after some of his past home of public tweets came 65 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: to light, and he refused to apologize for them until 66 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: much later, But he did just fine and went on 67 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: to make a docuseries about it for Netflix later that 68 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: you're not specifically about it, but definitely it was part 69 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: of it. And he was the highest paid comedian for 70 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: the second year in a row, making million from June nineteen. Right, 71 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: and someone who helped kind of, I don't know, validate 72 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: him or affects him. I guess in that situation u 73 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: um ellen de generes. And we know there's been a 74 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: mania things in the last year that has also said, yeah, 75 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: rich people, they should just be canceled. Yeah. Since canceled 76 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: culture does exist primarily on the internet, this can mean 77 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: a lot of folks go about their day never knowing 78 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: all of Twitter is calling for someone to be canceled, 79 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: and that's why bigger, non internet stars have an easier 80 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 1: time recovering. And of course bigger celebrities have their massive 81 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: fan followings coming to their defense. Right and an article 82 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: and ad Week made basically the same argument for the corporations. 83 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,559 Speaker 1: What takes place on the Internet doesn't really have real 84 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: life implications, as we've seen becauspelaton Is. Even though they 85 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: lost them Steam, they're still doing I don't know else 86 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: to say it. But of course, while internet cancel culture 87 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: is fairly new, you can liken it to the anxieties 88 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: around protesting and demonstrating and publish shaming and criticizing. It's 89 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,799 Speaker 1: definitely not new either. The Internet just makes it faster 90 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: and easier. And the Internet does not forget remember, always 91 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: remember that I was wondering if you could include Monica 92 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: Lewinsky is a pre social media example. A lot of 93 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: the hallmarks sound really similar, although sort of the opposite 94 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: of woke cancel culture. Um, I guess we could go 95 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: down a whole rabbit hole of how it only seems 96 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: to be canceled culture when levels do it. But I 97 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: guess that's part of the definition, right, And I think 98 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: when you think about the Monica Lewinsky bit, you have 99 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: a lot of the things that had to do with 100 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: Late night TV that went after her, as well as 101 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: other reports, which is kind of the big voices the 102 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: that started back way back when before this is this 103 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 1: age in social media which you can have a comedian 104 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 1: give uck hundred twenty twenty word equip and it can 105 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: go take off, and or the cancelation of them in general, 106 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: So it makes you wonder, what is the correlation, what 107 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: is the correlation between the two? Yeah, I guess, yeah, 108 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: I'll think about it. I guess It's not an example, 109 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: but it's sort of related. It is like a world. 110 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: It is the out there communications teleported to whomever, the 111 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: home living room of whoever listens to Jayla now at 112 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: the time or whatever. As I sure we'll think on 113 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: that and return to it in the future episode maybe 114 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: And yes, related, but slightly different is callout culture. Call 115 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: out culture in tails, publicly shaming someone, usually specifically on Twitter, 116 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: by calling out problematic behavior doesn't necessarily involve a boycott, 117 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: which cancel culture does. The general aim is just to 118 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: hold people accountable and to see a lot of memes, 119 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: so many means so many memes. We might touch on 120 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: some of those means, which possibly, but first we're gonna 121 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: pose for a quick break for word from our sponsor 122 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So the pop culture 123 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: idea of cancel culture is essentially, if you do anything 124 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: wrong or problematic, you're done forever. That's sort of how 125 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: people understand it. Your voice is silence for life. You're canceled. 126 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: And because of this, a lot of people in power 127 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: who historically haven't had to face consequences have started using 128 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: the term to condemn those who accused them. And we 129 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: saw this from some men in the wake of me 130 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: to kind of that witch hunt mentality when they speak 131 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: about the evils of canceled culture, like I could be 132 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: canceled at any minute if you look at what happens. 133 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: Though most of the time, a lot of these powerful 134 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 1: people aren't canceled. Take Harvey Weinstein, he settled, didn't even 135 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: go to jail, and semi recently went to a young 136 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: artist event and I believe two women who confronted him 137 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: at the event were kicked out. Yes, actually the comedian 138 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: who actually called him out was booed off the stage, 139 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: and her friend who went after him face to face, 140 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: was also asked to leave, and there was a whole 141 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: canceled culture on the woman who created the event. She 142 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: actually got canceled as well is the actual venue. So 143 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what's happened, but they went after them 144 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: pretty hardcore. But of course it took videos and people 145 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: famous people reposting that event and that incident, and I 146 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: will say, Harvey Weinstein even came out pretty clean. Yeah. 147 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: Even still, like maybe now he can't go to those 148 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: events without realizing, oh, someone may actually pay attention, because 149 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: that was the second third time he showed up to 150 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: one of those events, so this was not the first 151 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: time he's been at one, but first time I've actually 152 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: been able to find a footage of them calling him 153 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: out right, right, So even still, he's fine, he was, 154 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: He's fine. He was hanging out with a bunch of 155 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: young girls at the table and no one really seem 156 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: to have problems except for the two ladies in that event, 157 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: which was supposed to be an event for young stars 158 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: or up and coming stars or those who are trying 159 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: to be stars speak dubs. Yeah, yeah, So if you 160 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: look at comedian Shane Gillis, who was well not necessarily fired, 161 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: but told not to come in on his first day 162 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: from S and L after clips of him making racist 163 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: comments in the past. We service and I just want 164 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: to go ahead and let people know it's not just 165 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: one comment. That was the part that I think I 166 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: had the biggest problem with in this whole Oh this 167 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: cancel culture, or he's a comedian. When you actually go 168 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: and listen to a lot of the things that are said, 169 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: it's constant. It's a constant thing that he and this 170 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: other person on this podcast actually would do. And of course, 171 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: in response, comedian Bill Burr said, quote, you millennials, you're 172 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: a bunch of threats, all of you. None of them care. 173 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: All they want to do is get people in trouble. Unquote. 174 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: But Shane Gillis is touring. Now you look at that. 175 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: Even events like this always spawned conversations about free speech, 176 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: but they don't always do a great job in taking 177 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,359 Speaker 1: to account the free speech of those impacted by racism 178 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: or sexism, or people who simply don't want to support 179 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 1: those types of humor in the show they watch, which 180 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: I think in itself needs to be reminded. This affects people, Yes, 181 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: and that's fine. You want to take the chance of 182 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: saying these things and also holding back. By the way 183 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: his apology, it was a non apology. Once again, you 184 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: have to take responsibility. And that's one of the biggest 185 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: problems I think people are not facing that you're talking 186 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: about being canceled, being canceled, but look at the apology. 187 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: It seems so insincere half the time. That's kind of like, 188 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: why why should we accept you back? Do you have 189 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: a large You're just trying to, you know, call out 190 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: of this bad situation. Um. And of course the First 191 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: Amendment doesn't protect you from the backlash for saying something offensive. Right. 192 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: I think an article I was dreaming about this said 193 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: working on SNL is not human rights, right, And he 194 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: took this chance, he said these things, and then the 195 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: free market at work. People were like, I don't really 196 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: want to support that, right, Why do I want to 197 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: listen to you? And I love it that it also 198 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: just happened to coincide with the first Asian American to 199 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: get on SNL. At the same time, You're like, come on, dude, 200 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: and the comments were made about Asians in general. So 201 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: author Mark Harris it this way, quote S and L 202 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: reversing its decision to hire Chained Gillis Is it a 203 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: trialph of cancel culture or political correctness or whatever else 204 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,479 Speaker 1: idiots will label it. It is the swift and appropriate 205 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: rectification of a mistake. There you go. Comedian Sarah Silverman's 206 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: poke about cancel culture last year on the Bill Simmons Podcast, 207 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: where she argued that cancel culture itself should be canceled, 208 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: an argument a lot of people have made that social 209 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: shaming is scary and that in her mind it was 210 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: pretty much righteousness born. She had personal experience with cancel 211 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 1: culture after she was recently fired from a job when 212 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: a photo of her in black face from two thousand 213 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: and seven was rediscovered. She previously apologized for it and 214 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: had not shied away from bringing up and interviews is 215 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: something she was ashamed of. On the podcast, she said, 216 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: I'm not saying don't hold me accountable. I held myself accountable. 217 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: I can't erase that I did that, but I can 218 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: only be changed forever and do what I can do 219 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: to make it right for the rest of my life. 220 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: And again, this comes back to who is sincere and 221 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: who isn't. And I know that we can't necessarily judge 222 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: that because we're not in that person's head, but there 223 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 1: is a relativity of have they learned have they done that? 224 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: Since if she had continued to do so, if she's 225 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: got that would be problematic. Yeah, so it's just the 226 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 1: again talking about any other Harvey Weinstein. Has he apologized, No, no, no, 227 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: not the apology would be acceptable at this point. It's 228 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: just not even taking responsibility for it, but being playing 229 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: the victim of everybody's attacking me because I'm a rich 230 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: white man. Yeah, and that's one of the things we're 231 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 1: going to come back to you in a minute. One 232 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 1: of the difficulties around this whole conversation is over simplification 233 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: because Harvey Weinstein putting him in the same conversation of 234 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: cancel culture as a comedian our Taylor Swift is a 235 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: good example who, yeah, probably did something problematic, but not 236 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: on that. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of nuances that 237 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: get ignored when you're hashtagging something. Uh and yeah. Speaking 238 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: of toether Swist, she told Vogue in twenty nineteen, when 239 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: you say someone is canceled, it's not a TV show, 240 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: it's a human being. You're sending mass amounts of messaging 241 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: to this person to either shut up, disappear, or it 242 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: could also be perceived as kill yourself. And yeah, again 243 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: that that sucks. I'm sure, Um, but she really did 244 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: end up getting canceled, did she? I agree? I think 245 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: it is a whole big thing when you look at 246 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: the scale of what has happened and who's taking responsibility. 247 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: Here is a legal criminal act versus someone saying something stupid. Yeah, 248 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: and I think you have to understand that accountability. Again, 249 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: neither one of them have been canceled. She just won 250 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: amazing amounts of awards, so yeah, and he is still 251 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: making damn money. Yeah, And and cancel culture does have 252 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: some big name detractors other than Daithers. With Ronan Pharaoh, 253 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: one of the journalists who helped expose Harvard You're on scene, 254 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: called it quote, by and large, quite silly. Presidential candidate 255 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: Andrew Yang came out against the firing of Shane Gillis 256 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: saying it was life altering. And then you went on 257 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: to say, cancel culture has really become sort of a 258 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: source of fear for many Americans where we live in 259 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: a culture that you were somehow afraid that if you 260 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: say the wrong thing that your life could be changed forever. 261 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: To me, it's vital that we humanize each other, we 262 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: humanize the consequences of some of these impulses, not just 263 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: in terms of who hears the expression, but who was 264 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: losing a livelihood as a result. That's really easy to say, yeah, 265 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: this is It reminds me of the which is always 266 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: kind of surprised me. I get it, but it's still 267 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: surprising and how the hement people feel about it. But 268 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: um like political correctness and just a hatred of it. Oh, 269 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: I can't make fun of you because you might get 270 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: your filly hurt to get you're too politically correct, right, 271 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: excuse me? Yeah, I don't want Yeah. I mean it's 272 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: another way of turning it back on on the other person. 273 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: It's sort of like gas light. I can't say whatever 274 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: I want becauseive because you're so insensitive, you're so set, 275 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: and it's gonna ruin someone. And this is that same 276 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: damn excuse where we talk about boys being boys. Are 277 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: be careful what you say because if you accuse him, 278 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: you may, you know, change his life forever, ruin his life. 279 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: His choices didn't make him ruin his life. I see 280 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: a lot of parallels in that conversation in this one, 281 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: honestly so. Also in twenty nineteen, again we talked about 282 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: it earlier. President Obama said at the Obama Foundation Summit, 283 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: quote this idea of purity and you're never compromised, and 284 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: you're always politically woke and all that stuff. You should 285 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: get over that quickly. Quote. And this is one of 286 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: the most frequent arguments against cancel culture. People may mistakes, 287 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: and by shutting them down, they won't learn from them 288 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: and move on become better people. And of course this 289 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: is also met with a lot of the okay boomer 290 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: memes as well as an op ed that's a okay boomer, 291 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: which is a funny meme, I'm not gonna lie. Comedian 292 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: Billy aig Nur seemed to agree how to the whole 293 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: thing with Kevin Harty tweeted, I'm not into people being 294 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: permanently canceled over something like this to me, and cancelation 295 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: is childish. I'm into conversation, not cancelation. I'm into owning 296 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: up to past mistakes, acknowledging blind spots and hurtful remarks, 297 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: talking through it, discussing it, learning, moving past it, and 298 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: making progress together. And you know, I do agree with 299 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: a lot of those things that it does put the 300 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: onus of educating someone about their problematic behavior back on marketing. Yes. Um, 301 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: I will say the closest I've ever gotten to being 302 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: canceled was when I said the most dreaded of things 303 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: that dogs are overrated. And all it did was made 304 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: me want to dig my heels and enemy like even more. 305 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: And all those like angry messages I got, I was like, Okay, 306 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: the approving a damn point. But that's a lot different 307 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: than saying something racist or sexist or homophobic and rightfully 308 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: being called out for it. Right, And let's go ahead 309 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: and just remember having an opinion like I like dogs 310 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 1: better than cats, or I don't like peanut butter is 311 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: not the same as I don't know, maybe criticizing the 312 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: looks of a young child or calling the police because 313 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: of someone's skin color or their accent not the same thing. 314 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: So when we're talking about cancel culture, yes, there's a 315 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: variation of this is ridiculous to know this isn't necessary 316 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: because it's seemingly there's no justice outside of right. Um, Yeah, 317 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: it's one of those sticky situations, but sometimes it necessary 318 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: evil Yeah, Yeah, And We do have some more going 319 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: into that, perhaps, but first we have one more quick 320 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: break for words from responsor and we're back. Thank you, sponsor. 321 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: If you couldn't tell from our conversation already, there are 322 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 1: a lot of things going on, right. It is not 323 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: a simple situation at all. One I think is the 324 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: sort of knee jerk of of stuff on social media 325 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: without any context um. Another is people in power, not 326 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: like in getting called out. Another is cyber bullying and 327 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: internet mobs. This also kind of ties into the episode 328 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: we did a while back on death of the Author 329 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: and Rosemary's Baby, and the other episode we did on 330 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: being too Woke and performative woke, performative activism, all of 331 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff is that play here, right? And 332 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: there's also the horror stories we hear of people killing 333 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: themselves after being the target of cancel culture, and the 334 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: cases where people's lives or reputations were ruined with internet 335 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: mobs accidentally besieged the wrong user. But these are fairly 336 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: rare cases, and not that they should be dismissed, but 337 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: just putting context of a larger picture. And of course 338 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: those are really upsetting and it is necessary for us 339 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: to pay attention to for sure, because irresponsibly just going 340 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: after people you don't know. But at the same time, 341 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: it's that same like irresponsibly making a comment that is 342 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 1: hurtful for a community that is also a bad context 343 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, and I think another issue here is 344 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: um like bad eggs ruining it because calling someone out 345 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: is one thing, but telling them like, hey, go kill yourself, 346 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: that is not good, That is not responsible or good. 347 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: Um and relating to this kind of thing. Yes, So 348 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: we have been talking a lot about celebrities cancel culture. 349 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: Canon does take place outside of the world of celebrities. 350 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: Several articles have looked into the prevalence of high schoolers 351 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: using cancel culture as a way of disempowering enemies and 352 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: strengthening social bonds and the consequences of it. Thinks something 353 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: like the Scarlet Letter and doing doing the research for this, 354 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: I gotta say it does seem like in general, people 355 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: aren't really getting canceled for all the like hubbub around it. 356 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: There are a few exceptions, Kevin Spaces, I feel like, yeah, 357 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: given time, yeah, I know, like all of these and 358 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: like are Kelly's so far? And there's still hashtags in 359 00:20:55,119 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: defending him today. Yes, um, maybe would Ellen Rose in 360 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: bar we had celebrities defend Woody Allen and still talk 361 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 1: about how they would work with him. And it's such 362 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: a disgusting idea to me that I'm like, Okay, that's true. 363 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: We don't know all the ins and outs. But when 364 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: we come into this era of there are things happening 365 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 1: in the stakes happening and obvious habits when he did 366 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: take account to and yes, you, as an individual who 367 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: has all of this influence, should take on some responsibility 368 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: of the conversations you make. Just because he's good at 369 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: something doesn't mean he should be rewarded for such a thing. Yeah, 370 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: forgiven rather yes, And then there there are still others 371 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: who have faced consequences in the short term, but and 372 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: in bounce back. And then if we look at someone 373 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: with such a massive cultural impact like Michael Jackson, it's 374 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: really hard to cancel them because they've had so much influence. 375 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: It's sort of like a hydra one ahead, two more, 376 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: little it gets placed. I convince my mom to watch 377 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: that with three and she fell asleep, but she was tired. 378 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: It's not that it is pouring, I keep telling myself. Um, 379 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: it's also sort of personal for some of us. Canceling 380 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: some people will be easier than canceling others who might 381 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: have played a formative role in our lives. As we 382 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: said in that episode, definitely author it is intensely personal. 383 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: A One interesting example of this can be found in 384 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: comedian Zach Brussard's twenty nineteen edition of his annual list 385 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: of top one thousand comedians. In order to make it 386 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: quote creep free, asked pre and weirdo free, it came 387 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: with the option to cancel anyone on the list. Two 388 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: hours after the listening up, all one thousand of the 389 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: comedians on it had been canceled. The two thousand lined 390 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: up to take the spots of anyone canceled, we're all 391 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: canceled too, So Brussard updated the list or the function 392 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 1: to uncancel anyone who has been canceled. I mean, that's 393 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: pretty much it, right that that really captures a lot 394 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: what we're talking about here, and there are plenty of 395 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: it canceles of people who have been largely uncancelled. James 396 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: Gunn is one that comes to my mind, right, And 397 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: when you look at celebrities who have supposedly been canceled, 398 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: you see that they're still making quite a bit of 399 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: money and profit and continue to get support from so 400 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: many just because, Um, I think we can look at 401 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: a whole industry like the NFL and even the higher 402 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: educational fields where you know something's going, things are being said, whatever, 403 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: what maybe that there's a focus that Yeah, but we're 404 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: making money. So why I mean and I talk I'm 405 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: talking about specifically NFL with a lot of the domestic 406 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: violence issues that happens, and it's just kind of ignored, 407 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: swept under the rug. And it does seem largely that 408 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: if you are a person of color, you're more likely 409 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: to be the one that falls on the sword, has 410 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: to fall on the sword, than if not. So that 411 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: is that aspective that you have to look at where 412 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: it comes to being privileged, Yeah, and getting away with 413 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: more because of the color of your skin. Yeah. Yeah. 414 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: Then I've said before I'm not into social media. Um 415 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: that I do understand avoiding it in itself is in 416 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: some ways of vilage, and that for marginalized folks, things 417 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: like Twitter can be powerful platforms to connect with others 418 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: like you and to call out oppressive or problematic behavior 419 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: from those who historically have held the power to finally 420 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: have conversations we've societally silenced for so long. And I 421 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: am somebody who avoids posting often for fear something I 422 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: post will be deemed problematic, even though most of the 423 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: things I post are like So, I like the Winter 424 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: Soldier or something, and I am not alone in that 425 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: at all, according to so many articles I read in 426 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: conversations that I've had personally, and this can be an 427 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: issue in terms of having robust, fruitful dialogues and silencing ideas. 428 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 1: It's kind of extra twisty because, as we've talked about, 429 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: if you look at something like gamer Gate, you see 430 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 1: an angry minority of the Internet trying to shut women 431 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: and marginalized voices up, a tactic long used by those 432 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: in power. So I have sort of an anxiety around that. 433 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: I have been ducts before. It's not the same thing, right, 434 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: I know, it's not the same thing. It's just an 435 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: anxiety that I have. Oh, I share that anxiety with 436 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: you because I'm the same way. This is part of 437 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: the problem that I'm having with being on social media 438 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: right now, just myself as well as handling our social 439 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: media because I'm like, I don't want to put the 440 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,239 Speaker 1: wrong thing. I had to ask many people, okay, how 441 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: to correctly give credit what credit is due as well 442 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: as you know, make sure that I'm representing our brand 443 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: as well as women and those who identify as women 444 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: or those who you know identify as feminists. You know, 445 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: how do I do this appropriately that I won't shame 446 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: anyone and or bring shame to myself somehow some way. Yeah, 447 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: And I mean, if you think about it, we got 448 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: called out for bisexuality right speaking correctly about that, and 449 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: that was good, and we had like a great conversation 450 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: around that. And that's the thing is like we had 451 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: to take responsibility and acknowledge that, and I did that. 452 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: We did that with eating every person that we interviewed 453 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: having to explain the mistake that I had made, and 454 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: it was completely on me. And I was like, oh, 455 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: my goodness, you are correct. I'm really glad you told 456 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: me this. And this is harmful in every way and 457 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: I do not want to be a part of that 458 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: um kind of voice. And I want to be someone 459 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: who hears and opens and has open dialogue. And it 460 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: ended up being a two part episode, which was beautiful, 461 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: and I love everything about the people that we were 462 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: able to talk with. But that's again taking responsibility now 463 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: that we do that well, but learning that yes, we 464 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: made a mistake, and this is the way to rectify 465 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 1: the situation. Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, ultimately, it's a 466 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: good thing to think carefully about your words and to 467 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: have any problematic thoughts or maybe even just things that 468 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: you said kind of incorrectly understanding, right. Um, it's a 469 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: good thing to have those called out to start those conversations. Um. 470 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: I think canceled culture is frightening because we all know 471 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: we've done things in the past that we aren't proud of, 472 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: and being called out isn't fun. But it seems to 473 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: me a lot of the panic around it is just 474 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: one more way of those empowered trying to silence marginalized 475 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: voices are to avoid accountability. I do agree that true 476 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 1: internet mobs, cyber bulling, calls for someone to kill themselves, 477 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: those are not good things. But I also think that's 478 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: not what's happening a lot of time when we talk 479 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: about cancel culture, and people do need to be held accountable, 480 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: and this is one of the tools to try to 481 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: do it, because again, a lot of people aren't getting canceled, right, 482 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: And it's not if it's not that people can't make 483 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: amends for things they've done the past and grow and change. 484 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: That's our motto here, right, But it takes more than 485 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: an apology tweet. It takes time and actions, which can 486 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: be difficult given the fast paced nature of the Internet, 487 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: inaccurate media headlines, which I also think plays a role 488 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: in this kind of fearmongering around it and social media. 489 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: If everyone's unfollowed you, it can be hard to redeem 490 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: yourself and there have been several examples of people rushing 491 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: to social media judgment before all the facts were in. Actually, 492 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: I just got to talk about this on Savor weirdly 493 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,479 Speaker 1: enough about an episode of Colored Greens Interesting, So if 494 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: you want to know about check it out and a 495 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: New Year's episode. But I think that is absolutely true 496 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: when it comes down to how fast something can spread 497 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: and yes, and then regarditating to something that happened ten 498 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: years ago, and unfortunately people get caught up in all 499 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: of that mess. But if you have not changed and 500 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: it's a constant thing, those are things that need to 501 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: be recognized as well as the fact if you are 502 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: a person of influence, you need to be able to 503 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: not justify, but to take responsibility once again and talk 504 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: about what is the issue now. Of course we know 505 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Some people will never be satiated and 506 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: won't believe you that is what it is. It is 507 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: what it is. However, taking responsibility is on you. And 508 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: if you have the privilege of being an influencer and 509 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: people are paying attention to your word, yeah, there's a 510 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: certain amount accountability that has to happen there. And I 511 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: think it's not um necessarily bad to think before you write. 512 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: And you have to think before you right, just as 513 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: we say I think before you speak, and not necessarily 514 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: because you're fearful of something, because you you are fearful 515 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: of being heard, but because you are being damaging to 516 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: another group or a community, or to a community in general. 517 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: And that takes precedent to whether or not you just 518 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: feel like saying off the cuff. Yes, although I'm really 519 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: funny and I'll like desen to play well. And I 520 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: always think, you know, those those memories that for some 521 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: reason your brain loves to torment you with late at night, 522 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: most of them are things I wish I just thought 523 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: maybe one second right before I said it. I mean, 524 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: their friendships ruined with saying the wrong things? Can it 525 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: be so t L d R. As with most things, 526 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: it is complicated. I had to ask someone recently what 527 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: that meant? Oh did she really? Because it wasn't here? No, 528 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: okay no, Because I kept seeing I was like, what 529 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: does this mean? Okay? Uh? Yeah, this is giving me 530 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: a lot to think on. For sure, it's a very 531 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: complex conversation. I think that's the keys that we be 532 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:23,239 Speaker 1: sure to look into those complexities and nuances, and if 533 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: you have any thoughts on those complexities and nuances, we 534 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: would love to hear them. You can email us at 535 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You 536 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or 537 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,239 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as 538 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: always to our super producer Andrew Howard, Thank you, and 539 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You 540 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: the protection of I Heart Radios how Stuff works for 541 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio is a diheart radio app, 542 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.