1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:03,239 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 2: This week on Unearthed, we talked about Anatolia's oldest known 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 2: indigo dyed textile, and that reminded me that once we 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 2: did an entire episode about the history of the color blue, 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 2: which of course talked about indigo as a die. This 6 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 2: one is a live show that we did at the 7 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: National Gallery of Art in Washington, d C. In September 8 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 2: of twenty nineteen, and this episode came out on October sixteenth. 9 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: Twenty nineteen. 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 2: Enjoy Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a 11 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio. 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to a podcast. I'm Tracy V. 13 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 2: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. Today we are sharing our 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 2: live show from the National Gallery of Art Washington, which 15 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: we did in September as part of their MGA Nights programming. 16 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: And we actually did this show twice over the course 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: of the evening so that more people who attended that event, 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 2: which is very popular, could get in and see it. 19 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 2: And so today we are sharing the first of those two. 20 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: We're not going to share the second one because it 21 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 2: would effectively be the exact same show. 22 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracey V. Wilson. 23 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 2: And I'm Holly Frye. Blue is my favorite color, and 24 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: that makes me not special. Blue is the most popular 25 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: color and a lot of the world. For example, there 26 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 2: was a survey that was conducted in twenty fifteen that 27 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 2: polled people in Britain, Germany, the United States, Australia, China, 28 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, and Indonesia, and in all 29 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: of those places, blue was the most popular color by 30 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 2: a significant margin. So I am not alone in the 31 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: world in my love of blue. It can also feel 32 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 2: like we're really surrounded by blue all the time, because 33 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: we have the blue sky and the reflection of the 34 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: sky in the water, and then things like blue jens, 35 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: and then all the blue stuff that people buy because 36 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 2: it's everyone's favorite color. And yet a lot of ancient 37 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: languages did not have a word for blue at all. 38 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: Some languages still don't. For a lot of human history, 39 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 2: the process of making blue dyes and paints has been 40 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 2: pretty prohibitively expensive and complicated if people knew how to 41 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: do it at all. So blue used to be really rare. 42 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: And today we're going to talk about blues progression from 43 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 2: something that there wasn't even a name for because it 44 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 2: was so rare to something that seems really ubiquitous. And 45 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: like Tracy just said, there were a lot of ancient 46 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 2: languages that just had no word for blue whatsoever. And 47 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: this is something that folks started figuring out thanks to 48 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: William Ewart Gladstone, who spent four terms as Prime Minister 49 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 2: of the United Kingdom between eighteen sixty eight and eighteen 50 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: ninety four, but he had also studied classics at Oxford, 51 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 2: and ten years before he became Prime minister, he published 52 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: a six hundred plus page book that was called Study 53 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 2: on Homer and the Homeric Age, and it had a 54 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 2: whole section in it titled Homer's Perceptions and. 55 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: Use of Color. 56 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: I really like that one of the jobs that you 57 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 2: can have had before being Prime minister as classicist. 58 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: That seems cool. 59 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 2: I feel like if we had more of that and 60 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 2: less of other things, you'd be in great shape. So 61 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 2: in this section of the book, Gladstone outlined what he 62 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 2: interpreted as signs of immaturity. That was one of his 63 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: words for it, in Homer's ability to differentiate color. And 64 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 2: here is what he said. One the paucity of his colors, two, 65 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 2: the use of the same word to denote not only 66 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: different hues or tints of the same color, but colors which, 67 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: according to us, are essentially different. Three the description of 68 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: the same object under epithets of color fundamentally disagreeing with 69 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 2: one another, for the vast predominance of the most crude 70 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: and elemental forms of color black and white over every other, 71 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: and the decided tendency to treat other colors is simply 72 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 2: intermediates between those two extremes. 73 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: Five. 74 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: The slight use of color and Homer as compared with 75 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: other elements of beauty for the purposes of poetic effect, 76 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 2: and its absence in certain cases we might confidently expect it. 77 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: So in other words, Homer's use of color descriptors seemed 78 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 2: kind of contradictory and frankly just haphazard. Homer's works mostly 79 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 2: referred to things as black or white, and sometimes referred 80 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: to the same object using different color descriptors at different times, 81 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: or he would describe things with strange colors, like he 82 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 2: described both blood and a rainbow with a word that 83 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 2: translates essentially as violet, or calling the sea wine dark, 84 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 2: which I know maybe he got criticized for, but it 85 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 2: sounds very poetic to me, Homer's writing also seems to 86 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: have had no word that specifically meant blue. And side note, 87 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: there is actually a lot of debate as well about 88 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 2: whether all of the writing that is attributed to Homer 89 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 2: now was really the wor one person, or if there 90 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: are multiple people involved that all kind of fell into 91 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 2: this umbrella. 92 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: But that is a whole different. 93 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 2: Story and way outside the scope of what we're talking 94 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: about tonight. 95 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: But just keep that in mind as we talk about 96 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: Homer's work. 97 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, regardless of whether Homer was one person or 98 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: many people. This whole conversation led to some discussion about 99 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 2: whether people in the Homeric age were color blind or 100 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: otherwise we're perceiving color color differently than cited people in 101 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 2: the nineteenth century when Gladstone was writing, and we'll get 102 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 2: back to that idea. This also led to further study 103 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: about how ancient writers were describing and naming colors, and 104 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 2: it quickly became clear that other ancient writings also had 105 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: odd uses of color, including not having a word for 106 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: the color blue. Researchers studied these language patterns for decades, 107 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 2: and then in nineteen sixty nine, Brent Berlin and Paul 108 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 2: Key published basic color Terms, their universality and evolution, and 109 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 2: basic color terms are essentially single words that can be 110 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 2: applied to a wide range of objects and are understood 111 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: by most native speakers of a given language. So in English, 112 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 2: for example, there are all kinds of words describing different 113 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 2: shades and hues, but there are actually only eleven basic 114 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 2: color terms, and those are red, yellow, green, blue, black, white, gray, orange, brown, pink, 115 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 2: and thank goodness, purple. One of the important things about 116 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 2: basic color terms is that there's an agreed on shade 117 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: that they are describing. So even though violet was one 118 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 2: of the words that Homer was using, the fact that 119 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: it was sort of being applied to seemingly random objects 120 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 2: would mean that that wasn't really functioning as a basic 121 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 2: color word or a basic color term. All the languages 122 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 2: that Berlin in k studied had a minimum of two 123 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 2: basic color terms black and white, sometimes described as light 124 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 2: and dark, and here is something that I think it's 125 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 2: really cool. And languages that had three basic color terms, 126 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: the third one was red, and languages with four the 127 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: fourth one was either yellow or green, and then the 128 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 2: other of those was the fifth one. In languages that 129 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 2: had five it's only when a language had six basic 130 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 2: color terms that it had a color term for blue, 131 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 2: and then from there the pattern didn't hold up much 132 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: Farther There was brown as the seventh color, and then 133 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: colors beyond that just followed in no particular order. And 134 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 2: this nineteen sixty nine work had studied a relatively small 135 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 2: group of bilingual people, all of whom spoke English, and 136 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 2: most of them lived in industrial areas, and this naturally 137 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 2: led to a lot of discussion and questions about whether 138 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: these results could really be considered universal. So in the 139 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: late nineteen seventies, Berlin and k started working on their 140 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: World Color Survey, which asked more than twenty five hundred 141 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 2: native speakers of unwritten languages around the world to identify 142 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 2: various colors. Berlin and k published a monograph on this 143 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: in July of two thousand and nine, and they reported 144 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 2: that more than eighty percent of the world's languages followed 145 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: this pattern of black and white and then and then 146 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: yellow or green, and then the other one of those, 147 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,239 Speaker 2: and then blue. And these ancient languages without a word 148 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: for blue seems to follow these same patterns. A lot 149 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 2: of them have the black, white, and red and that's 150 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 2: it sounds like my wedding, not at all like Game 151 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: of Thrones, and way before that. There has been a 152 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 2: lot of research since then into why this pattern actually 153 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 2: exists and how to interpret all of this information. And 154 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: there's also been research into whether that pattern is evidence 155 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: that ancient people saw fewer colors, like William Ewert Gladstone suggested, 156 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: as well as whether people living today whose languages have 157 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: fewer color terms are actually perceiving fewer colors or if 158 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 2: they're perceiving them differently. So a lot of that research 159 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: is really contradictory and inconclusive. There are lots of questions 160 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 2: that we don't have one hundred percent agreed upon answers 161 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 2: to yet, like are their physiological differences in the eyes 162 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 2: or brains of people who speak languages that include different 163 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: numbers of basic color terms. There's some research that suggests yes, 164 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 2: and other research that suggests to know if there are 165 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 2: physiological differences, are those differences a result of the language 166 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 2: differences or is it the other way around? How much 167 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: of this is physiological, how much is socially constructed? Are 168 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: colors as sighted people perceive them universal or are they relative? 169 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: And it might seem a little bit weird that there 170 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: are so many unanswered questions about colors, because it's really 171 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 2: easy to imagine that colors are unchanging physical traits. 172 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: I know what purple looks like. It's purple. But it's true. 173 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: There's an element of physics to all of this. Isaac 174 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: Newton started working with the visible spectrum of light in 175 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 2: the sixteen sixties, and he used a prism to refract 176 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 2: sunlight into a spectrum that he described as red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, 177 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 2: and violet. But before this, societies around the world had 178 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 2: their own ideas about what light was made of and 179 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 2: where colors came from, and even Newton's work, which became 180 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 2: the foundation of how we all talk about color and light, 181 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: was influenced by his own preconceived ideas. For example, the 182 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 2: reason that there is an indigo in his list is 183 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: because he just thought there needed to be seven colors. Yeah, 184 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: there's seven days of the week, seven notes at a musical scale. 185 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: Seven's like an auspicious number. Clearly there have to be 186 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: seven colors. So, in other words, colors just aren't static, 187 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 2: unchanging traits that exist all by themselves. Our understanding of 188 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 2: colors is socially constructed, and the way people describe the 189 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 2: colors around them can vary dramatically based on language and culture. 190 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 2: Societies give colors their own symbolic meanings, and those meetings 191 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 2: change and evolve over time in response to all kinds 192 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 2: of factors, including what pigments are available, how expensive those 193 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 2: pigments are, whether there were laws about how they could 194 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 2: be used, and what's in fashion at the moment. So 195 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: when we look back into colors in the past, this 196 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 2: can of course get really complicated. An ancient culture may 197 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 2: have had no word for blue, and if they did, 198 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: it might have been used for a different range of 199 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: shades that an English speaker living today might imagine. And 200 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 2: even if we have examples of that culture's physical objects 201 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 2: like jewelry or textiles or works of art, their colors 202 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 2: can change over time thanks to things like fading and 203 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 2: oxidation and just dirt getting on them. And exactly how 204 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: they fade and shift can really vary depending on what 205 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 2: an object is made of, what pigment was used to 206 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 2: color it, the binders that were used with those pigments, 207 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 2: how it was handled since then, and what pollutants have 208 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 2: been in the air, and on and on. There's so 209 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 2: many factors. 210 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: On top of all of. 211 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 2: That, when we look at a work of art, especially 212 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: a work of art that was made long ago in 213 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 2: the past, we are almost certainly seeing it under totally 214 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 2: different lighting conditions than the artists who than the artists 215 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 2: who created had when they were making it. And one 216 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 2: of the hypotheses for why so many ancient languages did 217 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: not have a word for blue is that they just 218 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 2: didn't need one. Most ancient cultures did not have a 219 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: way to make blue pigment. And while there is blue 220 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: in nature, of course, thanks to things like flowers and 221 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 2: berries and butterflies and birds and the sky, it's not 222 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 2: nearly as common as other colors are. And we're going 223 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: to talk about how people worked out a way to 224 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 2: make their own blue. After we first pause for what 225 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: will be a little sponsor break, we're. 226 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: Going to talk a bit about pains and pigments. 227 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 2: If you look at some paleolithic rock art and cave art, 228 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 2: you will notice a pretty similar use of color no 229 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 2: matter where in the world you're looking, because the palette 230 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 2: tends to be really earthy. There's lots of brown and 231 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: yellow and red and black, and there are naturally occurring 232 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 2: pigments that produce these colors and are pretty abundant in 233 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 2: a lot of the world, like ochre, which is made 234 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 2: from iron oxide and various earthy materials. Different cultures have 235 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 2: had their own ceremonial and some methods of preparing and 236 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 2: using these pigments, but basically you can really just grind 237 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 2: up some rocks and put water in there and paint 238 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 2: with it. Do you ever have a teacher like an 239 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 2: our teacher, Have you do that? I think so probably 240 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: not a lot. Uh, you can't really do that with 241 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 2: blue though. It turns out there are not many blue minerals, 242 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 2: and the ones that do exist typically cannot just be 243 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 2: crushed and mixed with water like you could do with ochre. 244 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 2: Mashing up blueberries or blue flowers might seem like a 245 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 2: great idea, and you could try to use that. 246 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: And paint with it, but it's actually. 247 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 2: Usually going to turn out kind of brownish or gray, 248 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 2: and often it's also going to fade really quickly, so 249 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 2: you're going to lose that blue color you were chasing. 250 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 2: And ancient peoples could carve objects out of blue stones 251 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 2: or minerals or shells, or make decorative objects with feathers, 252 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 2: but that was about it. Even substances like lapis lazulie, 253 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 2: which were eventually made into pigments, were first used just 254 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: primarily to make carvings and inlays, rather than actually trying 255 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 2: to use them as dyes or paints. So that changed 256 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 2: with the development of the first synthetic pigment, which happened 257 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 2: by a about thirty one hundred BCE that came to 258 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 2: be known as Egyptian blue, and according to Roman writer Vitruvius, 259 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: it was made from sand, copper, and natron, which is 260 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 2: a naturally occurring sodium carbonate compound. Modern experiments have pinpointed 261 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 2: the likely ingredients as silica, copper, and calcium. Usually the 262 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 2: silica probably came from sand and the calcium came from limestone, 263 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 2: although it was also possible for sand to include calcite 264 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 2: or flex of limestone itself. So these ingredients had to 265 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 2: be mixed with a small amount of alkali and then 266 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 2: be heated to between eight hundred and fifteen one thousand 267 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 2: degrees celsius. And when we were running through this script 268 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 2: earlier today, I went, is that right? That seems incredibly hot? 269 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 2: And I was in my hotel room as we were 270 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 2: getting ready confirming it with like five different sources. 271 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: Yes, it was that hot, which just seems like it 272 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: would all be on fire to me. But that's why 273 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: I'm not a scientist. 274 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 2: We don't really know who worked out recipe or what 275 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 2: their process was for figuring it out. 276 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: We don't know if it was an accidental. 277 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: Discovery or if it was the result of a more 278 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 2: methodical process to try to get to this final result. 279 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 2: It may have been developed even outside of Egypt, possibly 280 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: in Mesopotamia. Yeah, it could have been anywhere on a 281 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 2: spectrum between like the kids through some sand in the kiln. 282 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: To I'm going to figure this out, like no idea. 283 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: It's a lot of room. 284 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,119 Speaker 2: Egyptian blue was used in Egyptian art from its discovery 285 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: until the end of the Roman Era, and there is 286 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 2: still a lot of artwork that exists today that was 287 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 2: made with it. The blue coloring isn't necessarily visible on 288 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 2: all of it, though. In two thousand and nine, it 289 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 2: was discovered that Egyptian blue has a near infrared luminescence 290 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 2: that can help researchers find traces of it that aren't 291 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 2: visible to the naked eye anymore. So. About that same time, 292 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: conservation scientists used that discovery to confirm that there are 293 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 2: traces of Egyptian blue on the Parthenon marbles, and we 294 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: have artwork where we can see this pigment that is 295 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: at least three thousand years old, and the pigment itself 296 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 2: has held up. The binders that have been used with 297 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 2: it have not always fared as well, though, For example, 298 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 2: pieces that used a lot of gum arabic as a 299 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 2: binder have tended to blacken or turn green over time. 300 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 2: The Egyptian term for Egyptian blue translates to artificial lapis lazilie, 301 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 2: and the next pigment we're going to talk about is ultramarine, 302 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 2: which was made out. 303 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: Of lapis lazolie. 304 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 2: Lapis lazilie is a metamorphic rock that's found primarily in 305 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: one place in the Eastern Hemisphere, and that's the premier 306 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 2: mountains in Central Asia. People in what's now Afghanistan were 307 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 2: mining lapis as early as seven thousand BCE, and by 308 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 2: thirty five hundred BCE was being carried thousands of miles 309 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: along trade routes through Asia and Europe and Africa. And 310 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 2: as we said earlier, the first uses of lapis lazolie 311 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 2: were mostly to make carved objects in inlays. Although lapis 312 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 2: could be crushed into powder and used as a pigment, 313 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 2: that pigment was not very pure because lapis is made 314 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 2: up of a mixture of different minerals, and these minerals, 315 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 2: depending on what their concentrations were, would all affect the 316 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 2: final color. So if there were impurities present and again 317 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: those concentrations, different preparations could look completely different from one another, 318 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 2: and then they would also look completely different. Over time, 319 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 2: people still tried it, though there is evidence of lapis 320 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 2: being used as a paint in the Karnak Temple complex 321 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 2: in Egypt. By about the sixth century, though, people had 322 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 2: worked out how to purify lapis lasalie into a pure 323 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 2: blue pigment now known as ultramarine. Unlike with Egyptian blue, 324 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 2: we do have the recipe for this. One artist and 325 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 2: writer Tanino Chanini, who lived between about thirteen seventy and 326 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 2: fourteen forty, wrote the process down in a lot of detail. 327 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 2: And you may have heard that ultramarine was worth more 328 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 2: than gold and Chininocinini's method really illustrates why it wasn't 329 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 2: just because lapis lasilie was only being mind in one 330 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 2: area of Afghanistan at the time. The process was also 331 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 2: long and really complicated, and it yield a very small 332 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 2: amount of usable pigment. So here's how he described it 333 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 2: in his book of art. Quote, First, take some lap 334 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 2: as lazily, and if you would know how to distinguish 335 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 2: the best stones, take those which contain most of the 336 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 2: blue color. So it is for it is mixed with 337 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 2: what is like ashes. That which contains least of this 338 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 2: ash pigment is best. But be careful that you do 339 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 2: not mistake it for azuo deela magna, which is beautiful 340 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 2: to the eye as enamel. Azurodela magna is as you rite, 341 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 2: which is copper carbonate carbonate material. It was being used 342 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 2: to make blue pigments during the Middle Ages and Renaissance, 343 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 2: although it was hard to mine and it was also 344 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 2: tricky to work with, but it was cheaper than ultramarine, 345 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 2: although it was not as stable or vibrant as a pigment. 346 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 2: So going back to the recipe, once you've got your 347 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 2: lap as lassily, you pound it in a bronze mortar 348 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 2: covered so that the dust doesn't just fly out. You 349 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 2: grind it and you strain it, and you sift it, 350 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: and you pound it. Quote again as much as is required. 351 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 2: But bear in mind that though the more you grind, 352 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 2: the more finely powdered the A zero will be, yet 353 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 2: it will not be so beautiful and rich and deep 354 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 2: in color. And all of this pounding and grinding and 355 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 2: straining and sifting was difficult because lapis lasoli is physically 356 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 2: hard to pulverize. And this was also just the beginning. 357 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: He went on to write, Quote, when the powder is prepared, 358 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 2: procure from the druggist six ounces of resin of the pine, 359 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 2: three ounces of mastic, and three ounces of new wax 360 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 2: to each pound of lapis lasili. Put all these ingredients 361 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: into a new pipkin and melt them together. Then take 362 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 2: a piece of white linen and strain these things into 363 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: a glazed basin. Then take a pound of the powder 364 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 2: of lapis laslie. Mix it all well together into a paste, 365 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,719 Speaker 2: and that you may be able to handle the paste. 366 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 2: Take linseed oil, and keep your hands always well anointed 367 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 2: with this oil. This pae must be kept at least 368 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 2: three days and three nights, kneeding it a little every day. 369 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 2: And remember that you may keep it for fifteen days 370 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 2: or a month, or as long as you please. I 371 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 2: like how it's like three days, but like forever's cool. Yeah, 372 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 2: it's totally fine. Also, it's not lap as lasli yet, 373 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 2: or it's not ultramarine yet. You still need to extract 374 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 2: the pigment from the pace that you just made and 375 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 2: left from between three days and forever. You do this 376 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 2: by putting the pace in a glazed basin, quote with 377 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 2: a porringer ful of lie moderately warm, and then you 378 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 2: work that with two rounded wooden sticks. So he describes 379 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 2: this quote. With these two sticks, one in each hand, 380 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 2: turn and squeeze and knead the paste thoroughly, exactly in 381 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 2: the manner that you would need bread. Now I need 382 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 2: to take a minute. I've never used sticks to need bread. 383 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: I picture you so much, just poking at It's like. 384 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 2: In a bread machine. It's a paddle like that. Uh okay, 385 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 2: so sticks as you and knee bread. When you see 386 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: that the lye is thoroughly blue, pour it, uh, pour 387 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 2: it into a glazed basin. Take the same quantity of 388 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 2: fresh lie, pour it over the paste, and work it 389 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 2: with the sticks as before. When this lie is very blue, 390 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 2: pour it into another glazed basin and continue to do 391 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 2: so for several days until the paste no longer tinges 392 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 2: the lye. Then throw it away, for it is good 393 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 2: for nothing. Hey, guess what, You still don't have ultramarine yet. 394 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 2: The substance in each of these basins will be a 395 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 2: different shade of blue depending on when in the process 396 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 2: you filled it, and you need to combine them together 397 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 2: based on how many shades of ultramarine you are trying 398 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 2: to make. You have to be careful when you're doing this. 399 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 2: The basins that were filled first are the best quality, 400 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 2: and quote the last two extracts are worse than ashes. 401 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 2: May your eyes therefore be experienced so as not to 402 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 2: spoil the good as you're by mixing it with the bad, 403 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 2: and each day remove the lie that the azure may dry. 404 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 2: So from there, Tanini offers some advice about what to 405 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 2: do if none of your ultramarine has the beautiful deep 406 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 2: color that you're expecting, and essentially that's mixing it with 407 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 2: a little bit of crimson dye and allowing that all 408 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 2: to dry again. Then once you have your finished ultramarine, 409 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 2: we get to the part of this that is the 410 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 2: unexpected sexism moment of the show quote, put it into 411 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 2: a skinner purse, and rejoice in it, for it is 412 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 2: good and perfect. And bear in mind that it is 413 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 2: a rare gift to know how to make it well. 414 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 2: And you must know that it is rather the art 415 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 2: of maidens than of men to make it, because they 416 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 2: remain continually in the house and are more patient and 417 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 2: their hands more delicate. But beware of old women. I'm 418 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 2: just out here ruining your Acca marine. Yeah, I don't 419 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 2: think he'd be cool with me making a Socco marine 420 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 2: or ultramarine either. Ultramarine is beautiful and expensive and rare, 421 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 2: so during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, it was 422 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: mostly used by the most skilled, respected artists and artisans. 423 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 2: Some artists would try to make it stretch by saving 424 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 2: their ultramarine for their last final touches on whatever work 425 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 2: they were making, and others used ultramarine only on subjects 426 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 2: that seemed worthy of it. And this is when blue 427 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 2: started to take on a symbolic meaning, such as the 428 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: color of the Virgin Mary's clothing. And you can also 429 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 2: see an example of this here in the National Gallery 430 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 2: of Art in Raphael's the album Madonna, which was created 431 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 2: in about fifteen ten. That is on view in gallery 432 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 2: twenty of the main floor of the West Building, that 433 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 2: is the other building from where we are tonight. That 434 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 2: is a very good reason for you to come back 435 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 2: to this amazing place. Yeah, don't try to go over 436 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 2: there right now. That building is closed. 437 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: Get in all the trouble. 438 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: Some artists, though dated, neither of these things, to try 439 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 2: to conserve it or make it stretch. An example is 440 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 2: Johannis Permir who just spent enormous amounts of money on 441 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 2: ultramarine and used an extent simply everywhere. The vermiers are 442 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 2: in Gallery fifty A of the West Building also still 443 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 2: the other building spectacular. 444 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: They are beautu I get the vapors over seat. You 445 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: can see them on the internet. 446 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 2: Also, thanks to its colossal expense and rarity, people were 447 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 2: really eager for some kind of substitute for ultramarine. It 448 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 2: needed to be equally good quality, but also cheaper and 449 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 2: easier to get. In eighteen twenty four, the French Society 450 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 2: for the Encouragement of National Industry offered a prize of 451 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 2: six thousand francs to whoever figured out an industrial process 452 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 2: to make synthetic ultramarine and it also had to cost 453 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 2: less than three hundred francs a kilogram, and there were 454 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 2: two competing claims on this prize, which was ultimately awarded 455 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 2: to Jean Baptiste Guimet in eighteen twenty eight. And that 456 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 2: is made from cowlin, sodium carbonate, bitumen and sulfur, prepared 457 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 2: and heated in a furnace or kiln. So once there 458 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 2: was this widely available, much less expensive blue pigment, the 459 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 2: color blue became way more common in artwork and for 460 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 2: more mundane topics a lot of the time. By the 461 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 2: start of the Impressionist movement, most painters were working in 462 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 2: synthetic ultramarine rather than made from lapis lazuli, And then 463 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 2: we get all those beautiful monaise that are all full 464 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 2: of blue everywhere. To be clear, ultramarine was not the 465 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 2: only blue pigment that was in use at this point. 466 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 2: Cobalt blue was introduced in eighteen oh two and cerulean 467 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 2: blue in the eighteen sixties. Prussian blue had been developed 468 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 2: back at the start of the seventeen hundreds, quite by accident. 469 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 2: There is some fuzziness as to the details about this, 470 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 2: but the conventional story is that an alchemist named Johann 471 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 2: Kanrad Dipple was working with potash and animal blood, and 472 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 2: Johann Jakub Diesbach was a dye maker who used podash 473 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 2: as part of making a red dye, and Deezbach ran 474 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 2: out and he either bought or borrowed some from Dipple, 475 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 2: and it was the podash that had been adulterated with 476 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 2: animal blood. And because of this, instead of making the 477 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 2: red dye that he was expecting, Diesbach wound up. 478 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: The vivid blue. 479 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 2: I like to imagine that he was like, he won't 480 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 2: notice if I just take some of it. 481 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: We'll give it. Why is this blue now? 482 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 2: Tipple used his knowledge of chemistry to work out how 483 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 2: to replicate these box results, and then another man, Johann 484 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 2: Leonard Frisch, also claims to have invented this in a 485 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 2: letter to Gottfried Wilhelm Leibnitz in seventeen fifteen. Although these 486 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 2: men tried to keep their recipe a secret so they 487 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 2: could cash in on the incredibly lucrative blue pigment trade, 488 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 2: John Woodward published a method of making it in seventeen 489 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 2: twenty four, so anybody could make as much as they wanted, 490 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 2: and the development of Prussian blue also sometimes called Berlin Blue, 491 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 2: affected the use of blue in artwork much the way 492 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,199 Speaker 2: that synthetic ultramarine did. For example, it led to a 493 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 2: whole style of woodblock prints in Japan called ai zurie. 494 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 2: Those were printed mostly or entirely in blue, and these 495 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 2: prints made use of Prussian blue as well as indigo 496 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 2: and other blue pigments. And a particularly famous example is 497 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 2: Katushiko's Hoku sais thirty six views of Mount Fuji that 498 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 2: includes the Great Wave of Kanagawa, and the first prints 499 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 2: of this series we're all in blue, and blue is 500 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 2: really prominent in the rest of them that are not 501 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 2: those first ones that are one hundred percent blue. Yeah, 502 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 2: I love that whole series. And hey, we just mentioned indigo, 503 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 2: which means that's a good segue into talking about the 504 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 2: mysteries of blue dyes, which are going to do after 505 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 2: another quick break. In a lot of the world, the 506 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 2: oldest surviving examples of dyed textiles are dyed red, but 507 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 2: blue dye has been around for a pretty long time 508 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,199 Speaker 2: as well. One example is to kell It, which is repent, 509 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 2: which is mentioned repeatedly in Jewish scripture and was in 510 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 2: use at least thirty five hundred years ago. Knowledge of 511 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 2: how to make it was lost some time after the 512 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 2: Romans destroyed the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and today its 513 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 2: sources believed to be a secretion made by marine snails. 514 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 2: Other blue dyes are even older. In twenty sixteen, researchers 515 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 2: announced that they had dated a piece of cotton textile 516 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 2: found in Juaca, Peru, and found that it was sixty 517 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 2: two hundred years old. It had been dyed with indigo, 518 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 2: making it the oldest known use of indigo dye and 519 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 2: one of the oldest surviving cotton textiles. And there were 520 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 2: other blue dyes in the Americas as well. For example, 521 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 2: there is evidence that the Navajo Nation had a natively 522 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 2: produced blue plant dye, which was eventually replaced with indigo 523 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 2: that was introduced from further south in what is now Mexico. 524 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: So today indigo. 525 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 2: Is more often associated with what's now India, but the 526 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 2: plant genus Indigofera includes hundreds of flowering plants that live 527 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 2: in tropical and subtropical areas all around the world, and 528 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 2: a lot of them can and have been used to 529 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 2: make purple and blue dyes. Indigo has been used to 530 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 2: make paints as well. For example, Maya blue was used 531 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 2: as a paint in pre colonial meso America, and that 532 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 2: was made from indigo and a clay called paligor skite 533 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 2: and at least one other ingredient who's or at least 534 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 2: one other ingredient whose identity is. 535 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: Still a little bit debated. 536 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 2: And as another example of usage, Peter Paul Rubens used 537 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 2: both ultramarine and indigo in the Fall of Phaeton, which 538 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 2: is here at the National Gallery of Art in the 539 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 2: West Building's Gallery forty five. Melanie Gifford, who is a 540 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 2: research conservator here, described his process in painting this to 541 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 2: us in an email. She said Rubens used indigo paint 542 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: indigo to paint the sky while working on the painting 543 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 2: in Italy in sixteen oh four, and then when he 544 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 2: revised the painting in Antwerp a few years later, he 545 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 2: switched to the brighter ultramarine. So when it comes to 546 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 2: making dye, the historical details of how the plants were 547 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 2: processed and how the dye was used could really vary 548 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 2: based on where the indigo was being grown. Often the 549 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 2: steps had a cultural or religious significance, and regardless of 550 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 2: the specifics, it tended to be a pretty involved process. 551 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 2: That required a whole lot of plant material to make 552 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 2: a very small amount of dye. And as an example, 553 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 2: here is how indigo was processed in Suriname, as described 554 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 2: by John Gabriel Studman quote. When all the verdure is 555 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,719 Speaker 2: cut off, the whole crop is tied in bunches and 556 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: put into a very large tub with water covered over 557 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 2: with very heavy logs of wood by way of pressers. 558 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 2: Thus kept, it begins to ferment. In less than eighteen hours. 559 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 2: The water seems to boil and becomes of a violet 560 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 2: or garter blue color, extracting all the grain or coloring 561 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 2: matter from the plant. In this situation, the liquor is 562 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 2: drawn off into another tub, which is something less. When 563 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 2: the remaining trash is carefully picked up and thrown away, 564 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 2: and the very noxious smell of this refuse, it is 565 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 2: that occasions the peculiar unhealthiness which is always incident to 566 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 2: this business. Being now in the second tub, the mash 567 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 2: is agitated by paddles adapted for the purpose, not just 568 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 2: poky sticks, untill by a skillful maceration, all the grain 569 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 2: separates from the water, the first sinking like mud to 570 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 2: the bottom, while the ladder separates while the ladder appears 571 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 2: clear and transparent on the surface, this water being carefully 572 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 2: removed till near the colored mass. The remaining liquor is 573 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 2: drawn off into a third tub to let what indigo 574 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: it may contain also settle in the bottom, after which 575 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 2: the last drops of water here being also removed, the 576 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 2: sediment or indigo is put into proper vessels to dry, where, 577 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 2: being divested of its last remaining moisture and formed into small, 578 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 2: round and oblong square pieces, it has become a beautiful 579 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 2: dark blue and fit for exportation. It's a lot of 580 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 2: work all these I'm like, do we need the blue? 581 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 2: Though I know I would be, I'd be like any 582 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 2: other color. I'm out, I can't. Fortunately, it's a day 583 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 2: we have chemistry, and chemists do these things rather than 584 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 2: having I mean, you can still mash a lot of 585 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 2: plants and get indigo dye. People do that, some of 586 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 2: them for fun. As a cool side note, when you 587 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 2: dye something with true indigo made from indigo plants, it 588 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 2: is green when it comes out of the vat, and 589 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 2: then it turns blue while it's exposed to the air. 590 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: Magic chemistry. It looks really cool. 591 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 2: Indigo was being cultivated in the Indian subcontinent by two 592 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 2: thousand BCE, and indigo became an important part of the 593 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 2: spice trade. During processing, the plant's leaves were pulverized into 594 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 2: a paste and the extracted dye was shaped into blocks 595 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 2: and dried. And these resulting blocks were so stone like 596 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 2: that when they arrived in Europe people actually assumed that 597 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 2: they were some kind of stone similar to lapis. Indigo 598 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 2: wasn't that common in Europe until after an Indian navigator 599 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 2: led Vasco da Gama to a sea route to the 600 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 2: Indian subcontinent in fourteen ninety eight, and before that point, 601 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 2: wade was more commonly used as a blue dye in Europe. 602 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 2: This was also known as pastel. That can make reading 603 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 2: old die manuals a little confusing for people who aren't 604 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 2: familiar with that term being used in that way rather 605 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 2: than for crayons made out of powdery pigment. 606 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: Or white colors. Woad is also a. 607 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 2: Flowering plant that requires an involved process to be made 608 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 2: into a dye. 609 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: Ethel M. 610 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 2: Merritt's, a book on vegetable dyes, which was published in 611 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 2: nineteen nineteen, described it this way. 612 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: Quote. 613 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 2: The leaves, when cut are reduced to a paste kept 614 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 2: in heaps for about fifteen days to ferment and formed 615 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 2: into balls which are dried in the sun. These balls 616 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 2: are subjected to a further fermentation of nine weeks before 617 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 2: being used by the dyer. Seems less complicated, but also 618 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 2: nine weeks of further fermentation. 619 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: Well, it could be forever, so it could be forever. 620 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 2: When theo When indigo became more accessible in Europe after 621 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 2: fourteen ninety eight, it really upended the dye industry. This 622 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,239 Speaker 2: was at a time when various crafts and trades are 623 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 2: being regulated through the guild system, and a lot of 624 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 2: europe dyer's guilds had very strong opinions about this sudden 625 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 2: availability of indigo dye. Although processing the indigo plants into 626 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 2: a dye was very difficult and time I'm consuming, it 627 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 2: was getting to Europe ready to use rather than people 628 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 2: in Europe having to be the ones to make it 629 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 2: ready to use. The resulting dye was also a lot 630 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 2: easier to work with than woad and it made a 631 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 2: better quality blue overall. As indigo dye became more available, 632 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,879 Speaker 2: guilds and governments in Europe had to negotiate a sudden shift. 633 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: In supply and demand. 634 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 2: Blue had already been increasing in popularity as people had 635 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 2: gotten better at processing woad into a good quality dye. 636 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 2: But then with this influx of indigo, more people wanted 637 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 2: blue cloth for everything from clothing to coats of arms. 638 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 2: And it got to the point that, in places where 639 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 2: dyeing and weaving had been completely different trades governed by 640 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 2: totally different guilds, weavers started to be allowed to dye 641 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 2: their own cloth, but only if they were dying at blue. Meanwhile, 642 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 2: indigo was being banned in various parts of Europe as 643 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 2: dyers tried to protect their trade, and regions whose economies 644 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 2: depended on growing and processing wod tried to protect their 645 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 2: life livelihoods. Holy Roman Emperor Rudolph the Second published an 646 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 2: edict against indigo in fifteen seventy seven, in which he 647 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 2: called it cheating, corrosive, devouring and diabolical. Seems pretty harsh. 648 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 2: Indigo was prohibited in parts of France and Germany in 649 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 2: fifteen ninety eight, and in Saxony in sixteen fifty, and 650 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 2: then Rome prohibited the use of indigo throughout Italy in 651 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 2: sixteen fifty two. 652 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: I kind of agree with Rudolph A second, I just 653 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: indigo's not for me. I don't. 654 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,800 Speaker 2: No shade to anybody that loves indigo. I'm just kidding. 655 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,280 Speaker 2: It's fine, it shouldn't be illegal. On the other hand, 656 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 2: Queen Elizabeth the First banned the cultivation of wode in 657 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 2: England in fifteen eighty five. Although people disparagingly say that 658 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 2: this was an issue because she thought it smelled bad, 659 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,800 Speaker 2: what this was really about was being motivated by fears 660 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 2: that food crops were being displaced by this newly cultivated 661 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 2: and lucrative wode. So these laws didn't stop this spread 662 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 2: of indigo into Europe or the rise of blue as 663 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 2: a popular color in textiles and art, both because of 664 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 2: the availability of indigo and because of the introductions of 665 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,760 Speaker 2: those blue pigments that we had talked about earlier. Before 666 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 2: the fourteenth century, about seventy five percent of the dying 667 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 2: manuals in Europe had been about the color red, and 668 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 2: then blue became more and more common in these manuals 669 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 2: from the fifteenth through the eighteenth centuries with the increased 670 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 2: availability of indigo and other blue pigments, and eventually blue 671 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 2: overtook red and apprentice dyers when they did their masterpiece 672 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 2: to show that they were ready to practice their craft 673 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 2: on their own had to do their masterpiece in blue 674 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 2: dye rather than red. The consequences of this skyrocketing popularity 675 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 2: of indigo blue in Europe were far reaching. Indigo was 676 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 2: one of the primary exports of what is now India, 677 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 2: so as Britain colonized the Indian subcontinent, British colonial policies 678 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 2: became tightly intertwined with the indigo industry, and this affected 679 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 2: everything from human rights to the movement for India's independence 680 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 2: from Britain, as farmers who were forced to grow indigo 681 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 2: demanded to be allowed to grow food crops instead, and 682 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 2: then on the total other side of the planet, indigo 683 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,479 Speaker 2: became a major crop in parts of the Americas, where 684 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 2: it was being grown and harvested and processed by enslaved laborers. 685 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 2: The description that we read earlier on how indigo was 686 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 2: being processed in Surinam actually came from a book that 687 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 2: was titled Quote Narrative of five Years Expedition against the 688 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 2: Revolted Negroes of Surinam, and that recounted Steedman's experiences in 689 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 2: Surinam from seventeen seventy two to seventeen seventy seven, and 690 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 2: much of the Caribbean indigo was later replaced by sugarcane, 691 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,400 Speaker 2: and it became a major cash crop in South Carolina, 692 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 2: where it was introduced by Eliza Lucas Pinkney. Pinkney relied 693 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 2: on the knowledge and skill of enslaved labors to refine 694 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 2: how the indigo there was being cultivated and processed, and 695 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 2: synthetic indigo was developed in the late nineteenth century, but 696 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,879 Speaker 2: it wasn't until the early twentieth century that it really 697 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 2: just became super practical to make. Today's synthetic indigo is 698 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 2: almost entirely has almost entirely replaced indigo that is made 699 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 2: from plant sources. And there are just so many other 700 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 2: notable uses of blue that we could talk about in 701 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 2: this show. Today we haven't at all touched on blue 702 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 2: glass or blue ceramics. There's the cobalt that was used 703 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 2: to make that was used to make blue glass and glazes, 704 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 2: or the blue and white porcelain that was so popular 705 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 2: in China during the Yuan and Being dynasties, or the 706 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 2: many attempts to try to replicate that look that were 707 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 2: made in Europe and North America. There is blue jasperware 708 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 2: that was developed by Josiah Wedgwood. If we had taken 709 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,280 Speaker 2: a different focus, we could have had a totally different 710 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 2: look at the color blue today rather than having the 711 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 2: focus beyond paints and dies and that's the. 712 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: Mysteries of the color blue. 713 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 2: So thank you to the National Gallery of Art Washington 714 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 2: for invite us to be here tonight. Yeah, it's been 715 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 2: such a delight and we get to do it all 716 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 2: again in a minute. Yeah, so we especially one of 717 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 2: the thanks Sherry Williams, who is the manager of community programming, 718 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 2: and Christina Brown who's a publicist, and then Melanie Gifford 719 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 2: and Chelsea Ususa who were the people that we talked 720 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 2: to in advance of tonight. And then we also want 721 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 2: to thank the folks that we have been working with tonight. 722 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 2: So Kathleen walking around with us a lot, Yeah, taking 723 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 2: care of us. Robert who's here in the front, took 724 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 2: great care of us leading up to this, and then 725 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 2: I think Olivia's back in the back doing sound making 726 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:37,720 Speaker 2: me not sound like a cackling hen ah. So thanks 727 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 2: so much everyone for coming. Yeah, thanks so much for 728 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,399 Speaker 2: joining us on this Saturday. If you'd like to send 729 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,280 Speaker 2: us a note our email addresses History Podcast at iHeartRadio 730 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,360 Speaker 2: dot com, and you can subscribe to the show on 731 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 732 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:02,840 Speaker 2: favorite shows. 733 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: M