WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Faith Newman 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.840 Of Course, Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:10.520 classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:11.840 Yo Yo Yo, What up? 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:12.039 This is this? 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:17.000 Fonte Fontigelo here with another QLs classic. This episode we're 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.320 taking it back to January eighteen, twenty eighteen, with Faith Newman. 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.120 Faith Newman is the an r signed NODS and helped 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.079 create the runway for Amatic. She joins thet QULS to 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.000 discuss her time at Death Jam Columbia and we're going 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:33.160 ugk too short at job. It's it y'all, episode number 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:36.159 eighteen of PULS. Fifth Newman on the US classic. 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:50.280 Who Suprema Suck Suck Supremo Roll Call, Suprema Suck Suck Subpremo, 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:56.680 Roll Call, Supremo, sup Up Supremo Roll Call, Suprema Suck 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:58.800 Suck Suprema roll Call. 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.720 My name is Question. Yeah, that's who I am. Yeah, 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:10.720 I'm gonna ask Faith new Man. Yeah, hollobout Primo, Suprema Road. 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.720 Called, Suprema Suprema role call. 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.600 My name is Fante. Yeah, I'm in the place. Yeah 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.959 I'm not George Michael. Yeah, but I just gotta have Faith. 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:34.560 Roll call Suprema Suprema Roll Call. Yeah, Faith new Man. Yeah, 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:41.039 they call me sugar. Yeah, the sexy you Man, I'm. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:46.679 Punch spread No so Supreme roll called. 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.800 I'm on Hey Bill, Yeah, I can't get no better. 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:50.440 Yeah. 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:51.960 Ready for eggnog? 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:52.520 Yeah? 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:53.920 Christmas sweaters? 0:01:54.040 --> 0:02:02.360 Who call Suprema So SUPREMEA roll call, Supreme Son Son Supremo. 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:06.320 Road calls Boss Bill the meanest, Yes, Boss build the prettiest, Yes, 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.839 Boss build the baddest more fu No down around this town. 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:18.600 Supremo role called Suprema Son Sun Supremo role call. 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:20.399 Yeah. 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.280 Working on a rhyme scheme. Yeah, I don't know what 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.760 I mean. Yeah, but I'm trying to see. 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.079 Oh God, Supreme, why why she with me? 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:29.440 Up? 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:34.520 Roll Suprema Son Son Supremo roll call. 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:35.639 My name is Faith. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:36.360 Yeah. 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:38.160 I haven't rhymed since nineteen eighty. 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:49.760 Yeah yeah, oh Supremo roll call, Suprema Son Son Supremo 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:56.280 role call. Suprema Son So Supremo. Role called Suprema Son 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.560 Son Supremo roll call. 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:05.359 It's actually ironic that we are in or Barrack Street, 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:10.160 in the location of the I guess the original. 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:13.680 I thought you were going to go to death, Jam, 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:14.720 I was trying to. 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.080 Go to death Jam, So Death Jam wasn't on this block. 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.480 No, the original original was on Elizabeth Street. 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.520 I see, well, that voice you hear, ladies and gentlemen, 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:28.880 is a legendary, legendary voice. What can I say about 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:33.000 Faith Newman? I mean she has She's been there for 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.840 some of your favorite moments in music. If you are 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.320 a hip hop hit, you know, if if the Maroon 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.840 to Black Death Jam logo the original meant anything to 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:49.200 you in the eighties, in the nineties, Faith Newman was there. 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.119 Not to mention, uh, she spirit headed. 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:59.360 Probably one of the most debated and contested pieces of 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:02.640 of work that has ever been in hip hop. I'm 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.400 speaking of Illmatic by nas. You've done so much more. 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:08.720 Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Faith Newman. 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.160 Thank you, thank you, thank you. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.240 Welcome to our dungeon. How are you doing to day, Faith, I'm. 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:19.440 Doing okay Man you yeah, yeah, Dungeon, Dungeon. 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:20.200 Come to my underground LA. 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.240 When you hear that, normally I don't, I don't kick 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.080 off an episode with the song, But when you hear 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.800 that particular piece or just stuff from that era, like, 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:32.840 what's the first thing. 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:34.480 You thought of when you heard well, you know, I 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.080 started working at Deaf Jam at eighty seven, right, so, uh, 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:42.480 you know when I was still in college, and it 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:46.840 was just an amazing, amazing time. Just some of the 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.040 best years of my life were spent there. I was 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:53.640 one of the first five people at the company, first woman, Right. 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:55.000 I was going to say, if you. 0:04:56.720 --> 0:05:03.280 Were a woman in that vironment, I know that you 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:07.200 have to have the toughest skin of all time. Yeah, 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.560 because you're like what you're around. You were around twenty. 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:12.920 Twenty one in that environment. 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:15.760 Yeah, wow, Well, you know, there was no such thing 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.400 as HR department. There's no HR department. There was no 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:20.520 trigger warnings, there was none. 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:21.000 Of that, you know. 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.920 You know what's interesting though, was that before def CHAM 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:30.840 I interned at Columbia Records eighty six and yeah, and 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.560 you can imagine what that was like then. You still, 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:38.240 I don't know if you saw the show No, the 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:42.000 one that got canceled on HBO about the record thank You, 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.039 Thank You, thank you, It was like that. 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:50.280 Like, wait, canceled, Yeah, yeah, yeah one and done done Damn. 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:55.320 Next to that was damn. I was actually I was 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:57.440 into it too. Yeah, I liked it as well. 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:01.760 But wow, but those guys, you know in eighty six 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:03.400 that were in the record had been in the record 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.039 business since, you know, whenever the seventies were still there, 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.360 and that's where I got I experienced more harassment, you 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:12.560 know what I mean? I see and I feel like 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.480 with hip hop though, it's like I never could have 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.920 gotten a job at Columbia unless I wanted to be 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.000 somebody's assistant, you know. 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:24.479 But so you're saying that working at Columbia in eighty 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:29.560 six prepared you for the tough skin of the battles that. 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:30.360 You would have to deal with. 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:32.680 Yeah, you know, it's funny, like I don't know if 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:36.400 it was my youth or whatever, how much I loved 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.760 hip hop, It just I didn't think of myself as 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:43.160 a woman first in hip hop. I just felt like, 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.200 you know, that's kind of how it was with everybody 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.080 who worked at Deaf Jams, Like we were all young 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:50.960 and we were just totally immersed in the culture. 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:53.800 Were there any other women at the time that maybe 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:55.520 because you know, you were the first at Deaf Jam, 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:56.400 but were there anything? 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:59.400 There were women at Rush? So what you had was 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.000 in the on an in Elizabeth Street. You had Rush 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.480 management was on the first floor, and you had Lisa 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:12.760 Cortez and Heidi Smith. Yeah Cortez, Yeah, who went on 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.040 to work with Lee Daniels and yeah, she's doing great 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:15.800 things in film. 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:22.000 She she once infamously told The Roots when we I 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:26.040 believe that she went to Mercury uh in ninety four. 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:28.800 All right, so something happened. 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:30.960 We were going to sign with Mercury, Like we went 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:32.560 out to dinner and all this stuff, and then like 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.920 there's a minor glitch in the contract that technically left 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.600 us free for like a weekend. 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.040 And that's when Wendy. 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:45.680 Goldstein came with all his cash and Lisa Cortez was like, 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:52.800 I hope they take race relation classes over there. 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.160 Like that was like her last like, oh, you're gonna 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:05.720 learn today forget uh So like was that You're. 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.200 I'm trying to pedal backwards before I go forward. But 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:15.480 how did you wind up in music? You're former phil Philadelphia. 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.040 I'm a Philadelphia, proud Philadelphian. 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:25.320 All right, I'm clapping alone, right, I mean I haven't 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:26.400 been with the last sixteen years. 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:27.480 Okay, take it. 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:32.000 You're always all right, just no officially, like besides us 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:37.240 being born on the same day, you're always Philadelphia native 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:39.160 to me like DC doesn't count. 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.599 No, my bougie spirit is down thanks to Philly, Like 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.040 you know, it takes you down, brings you back up, 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:47.200 phlling goop. 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.880 So you're you're growing? What part of Philadelphia did you? 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:52.640 Northeast? 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.240 Wow? Is this Fishtown? 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:56.800 No? 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:03.800 Northeast? Northeast real Northeast, Bustleton Avenue? Okay, Tomlinson Road, I 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:05.679 need this sounded familiar? Film on Avenue? 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.199 Okay, I would expelt Roosevelt if you okay, what I'm 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:15.520 saying is back in let's say nineteen eighty three. If 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:22.280 current day no, no status, Amir Thompson, or to be. 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:27.400 In that neighborhood, might I be greeted with some Louisville sluggers, 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:29.680 perhaps as to relieve yourself. 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:35.160 Them The Northeast? No, the Northeast is special. 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.240 How okay? 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.839 So I know me and knowing you personally, I know 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:45.480 that you're a soul music officionado. How did that reach 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:49.520 you up in the Northeast. Because when I'm thinking seventies 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:53.920 and eighties Northeast, I'm thinking of like FM ninety eight, 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:55.000 I'm thinking of the. 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.320 Word yo, like yo, let's go get a head. 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:00.800 Yeah, yeah, Like when you're from Philly. 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.360 It's the worst ever. It's so glad. I don't you 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:05.440 said that, but you. 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:12.880 Said that out Yeah, So like, how were you no 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.920 pun intended? Were you a black sheep of your Yeah? 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:19.400 I have a funny story about that. I want you 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:23.080 hear it. Well, actually the reason was Soul Train. 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.079 Ah, okay, what was the reason. 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:29.679 That you ask me? 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:31.280 Why? 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:31.959 No? 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:33.200 I meant your love for. 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.199 The show or just no, my love for the music. 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:37.320 It's just I always had music playing in the house. 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.800 My dad had this great, you know, fancy reel to 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.480 real player, and he would play a lot of Ray 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:47.840 Charles and the Birds, Creeden's Clearwater Revival, like a lot 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:51.000 of bluesy stuff that I was always attracted to. 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:56.839 And then we should let our let our listeners know 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:02.720 that in the seventies, the uh real to reel player 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.319 was like, I mean, that was the original m P 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:08.400 three older even before it, like cassettes. 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:10.320 Weren't even Yeah, well they bought you know, you'd buy 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:14.800 real to real albums like you was, Oh okay. 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:15.000 They were. 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.839 Get and then oh really all the music he liked 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:22.839 on that reel to reel so he just had three 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.400 hours of yeah, continuous music without having them put the 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:31.880 record stack on, so so your your father would would 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:33.040 listen to all these songs on. 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.720 Yeah, there was always music playing in the house, always 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:38.640 on the house, always on the radio in the car. 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:45.640 Funny story, I mean you asked kind of how I 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:50.920 was different. I my grandparents lived in North Philadelphia and 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.960 North Yeah you r F O r F North? 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:57.319 Wow? What year? 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:02.719 Oh god, I mean they moved out in the seventies, so, 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:07.640 you know, forties, fifties, sixties. Well, and my mom went 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:08.480 to Overbrook there. 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:12.760 Oh, oh my goodness, y'all are your family yeah, yeah, 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:18.680 very integrated, like yeah, but this this story, the funny 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:23.080 story is that I was four, I guess four or five, 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.280 and I was sitting on the stoop in my grandmother's 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:30.400 house and across the street these. 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:34.240 Activists, I guess we're said, I don't know if they 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:35.839 were black panthers, I don't know what they were, but 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:37.920 they were setting up a table to hand out literature, 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.040 and I thought that they just looked amazing. They had 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.240 these you know, big afros, and just they seemed so cool. 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.400 So I went across the street just to hang out 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:56.160 with them, and they said, are you lost? Yeah, which 0:12:56.280 --> 0:13:02.559 is you know, symbolic and yeah, so that was that 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:06.360 was a funny story. But Soul Train was where I 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.000 got my music from. That was it every Saturday? 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:09.839 Okay? 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:14.400 And then pretty much, I mean, what did you and 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.480 I Philadelphia to make your check to New York. 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.120 I started going to New York when I was sixteen, 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.400 so that I kind of would sneak away. I would 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:25.599 tell my mom is sleeping at a friend's house and 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.439 I'd take the Greyhound to New York and I'd go 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.959 to the Roxy places like that. 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:34.440 Finally, yeah, someone that's been to the Roxy, Yeah at 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.600 its peak favorite now when here's this eighty one, eighty two, 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:43.480 eighty two eight, So what was what's what's the what's. 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:45.040 The average environment of the Roxy? 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:49.920 Because I think after Studio fifty four, the Roxy's definitely 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:51.800 falling into the mythic hole. 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.120 Yeah, it was everything that I thought it would be. 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.200 The first time I went, it was like, how did 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:00.240 you hear about it? That's a good question, And I 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:02.520 don't know. I don't remember. I mean, I started listening 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.320 to hip hop when I was thirteen, and I heard 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.840 it first time at United States of America on Roosevelt Boulevard. 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:13.160 Damn, USA, USA, I remember that spotyre. 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.439 Yeah, but it is the first time I heard a 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.640 rap record, which of course you know, given you know 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.200 it was in Philly and it was rappers Delight. So 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.800 that was a game changing moment for me. And I 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.600 found a friend from Jersey who would get cassettes of 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.920 you know, Funky four plus one and ANGIEB and Spoony 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.040 G and you know, all of this stuff, and that's 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:39.880 how I got my hip hop early on. It was 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:43.280 through these cassettes through from New York to Jersey to Philadelphia. 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.160 Really, so I've never heard of tapes making. 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:49.440 They made their way, well, they made their way to 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:51.880 my friend in Jersey and he got me the tape. 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:55.720 So okay, So when you're going to the Roxy, like, 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.880 what's I mean, what's the average night, it's like Jellybean 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:00.240 Benita spending Like who. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.800 Was spinning Bombarda was spinning that night? 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:09.280 Really? Yes? So what it? What is his method of 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.920 I mean, can you describe like some of the songs 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.040 you heard or whatever I heard? He would just go 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:16.000 all over the place. 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.040 I heard one mixtape in which he, for some weird reason, 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.880 just stayed on the the Hey Mickey of drum intro 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:26.280 for like ten minutes though. 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.320 But it wasn't like but it wasn't like it was 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.960 in line. It'd be like goop goop, you could you could, 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:40.800 you could give us wow sound like sneakers in the 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:50.520 dry wait that that was the best analogy I ever heard. 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:59.280 I ever heard so any of the folklore characters of. 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.000 Yeah, well, I just remembered I I met Mellie Mellon's 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.640 Scorpio and I thought that was a really cool thing. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.360 And it was the first time I saw rock Steady live. 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.200 It was like everything was happening at once. It was 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:15.040 like all of hip hop in this you know, in 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.360 this little space, and it was just you know, they're 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:25.440 writing graffiti on plexiglass. You know, they're break dancing. It's 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.200 actually probably eighty three because Planet Patrol performed. That's what 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:28.640 I remember. 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.960 Oh wow, that's that. 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:35.520 Ye yep, that's it. 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:40.680 With those costumes, with the crazy and the hat all 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:40.920 of it. 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:46.240 Planet Patrol would they'd start their shows looking like I 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:47.080 can't even discover. 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:48.680 But it was all I mean, it was like that. 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:50.600 It was like very like p funk the way they 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.920 did it, and Sulsonic Force did it. And it wasn't 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.000 until run DMC that people stop kind of you know, 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:59.160 even the Furious five had, you know, know what they 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:00.200 used to dress like? 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.040 So did you dress like that as well? 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:03.440 No? 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.760 Were you B girl? Were you the prototype cool white 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:10.040 girl in the circle of black? 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:10.440 I was? 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:11.040 I was. 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.520 I was a B girl, okay for sure? 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:15.080 And then later on I was really like when I 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.160 said that I haven't wrapped since eighty six, like that's 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.199 for real, Like I was in a rap group and everything. 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:24.119 So wow, yeah, well I have to preface this, you know, 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:29.119 so it makes sense. Remember Calvin Coolers. Yeah, they came 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:30.760 in a four pack, not a six pack. 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.280 Yes, your name was a little four pack. 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:38.120 Her name was four pack. Wow, there were four of us, 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:38.879 get it? 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.440 Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got to google that. 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.840 That's you know, I'm talking Calvin Coolers. 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:46.120 Yeah. 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:47.480 I never heard, never heard it. 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:57.240 About it. That's why is cooler? Yeah, I'm late. I'm sorry. 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:58.080 It's funny though. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:00.879 I just didn't now got the reference because I've heard 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:02.359 I knew it from the King Ryan, but I didn't 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:02.520 know it. 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:04.800 Was an Actually, wait, who the who the two old 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:05.440 white guys. 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.920 That used to sell the James I remember them white 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:11.800 even so yeah, but they're like heart lemonades now. 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:17.320 Mike's hard lemonade. So for a non Draco like me, 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.200 would wine cooler been like the perfect? 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:24.840 Yeah? Yeah, it's just some sweet diabetic black Is it black? 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:25.440 No? 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.000 I mean you know, like we like, you know, black 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:33.760 folks ordering ordering, we ordering Moscotto, it's the sweet tea 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:34.840 of one. 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:37.800 Yes, yes, yeah, any kind of wine cool. It's like 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:40.119 why they stopped making it because I would have been 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:40.639 the perfect. 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:45.600 I know they still make it. It's just marketing towards 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:46.879 like you know, freshman in college. 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:48.440 Wow, like Boom's farm. 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:54.840 So wait, when Bruce Willis was singing Sea Cool, who 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.800 were they they returned to black folk. I don't think 0:18:57.880 --> 0:18:58.399 I think it was. 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:00.760 I think it was the thing where it was unintended consequences, 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:05.639 like how most upscale white products like they you know, 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:07.399 right crystal, how we grabbed it. 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:09.240 Yeah, we grabbed It's like, oh damn, we mean them 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:10.560 for the niggas to get that, but. 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:14.240 The whole. 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.600 He's like, no, we made polo. We made chaps for 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:22.040 y'all niggas. I wasn't sposed get polo, but you know, 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:32.000 it happens like sneakers in the dry anyway. So damn. 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:36.240 I forgot how we got on this tangent but a tangent. 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:41.960 On four pack? Now, the name of the group four 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:43.000 packs the name of our group? 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.399 All right? So what was your actual name in the 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:46.640 group four pack? 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:49.200 My actual name? 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:49.560 Yeah? 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:50.879 Oh man, you're not going to get that. 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.359 Come on, we got this play on the Supreme please, 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.880 oh Lord exclusives. 0:19:57.840 --> 0:19:58.600 Give us the other girl. 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:01.400 We won't send you to HR. 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:06.480 We promised, promise. Does not know what it is, you know, 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:08.440 you never told them. I must have told them it 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:09.600 was M Fortune. 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:12.560 Wait. 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.840 Who are the other three though, Rammy, SD and C Money. 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:23.879 That sounds like medical conditions. Are they in the business now? 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:24.240 No? 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.240 Okay, were you guys like seriously trying to get a deal. 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.520 Or we were you know, we were just so like 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:32.680 I said, immersed in the culture that it just seemed 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.119 like this natural extension, like let's just have a group. 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:37.760 And we went in the studio with the L A Posse. 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.640 Oh wow wait era, Yeah. 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:44.159 I was on the Bigger and Deafer album What what 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:44.720 what's on? 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:45.119 What's on? 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:49.200 I don't know? The go l L Go and Let's 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:53.200 get No No and let's get Let's get Wait. 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:55.120 When you were still working at Deaf Jam. 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:58.120 I hadn't started working with Death Jam. I didn't start 0:20:58.119 --> 0:20:59.680 working till seven. 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.760 No, okay, but you started working at def Jam in 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.720 the eighties eighty seven when that album came out, so 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:09.440 back then you were still pursuing. 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:13.640 It's just it was like a half. It isn't really 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:14.359 what I wanted to do. 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:15.000 Was it? 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:15.800 Four Whirls? 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:17.359 Yeah, we're four white girls? 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:21.040 And Russell didn't see this at one point? Was a 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:28.600 marketing the female Beast? Like, did he know about the. 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.240 I don't think. I don't think he even knew. It 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:33.320 was a short lived part of my life. 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:37.840 Were you guys good? We're trying to bring are the 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.760 demo tapes? Is there an union tour? 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:45.680 Yeah, we're putting the band back together. 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.920 Putting man on to him before my ad libs from 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:50.600 all Let's get in. 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:57.000 But that was the first time I saw Todd without 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:58.520 his hat on. That was interesting. 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:01.960 Wow, really, I don't think I saw that till like 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:02.760 ninety five. 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:04.840 Yeah, no, I got a sneak peek. 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:10.520 Quincy Jones told of a story where he brought LLLL 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:16.040 to Bill Cosby's house for dinner and ll had his 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:21.080 hat on, and you know, Bill Cosby said, you know 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:22.960 one of them. Cosby things like, well in this house, 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:24.720 young man, we take our hats off. 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:25.359 And da da da da. 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:30.040 So llll like all embarrassed, took his hat off and 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:32.960 then Bill looked at his head, was like, put that hat. 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:41.960 Okay, so where do. 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:44.160 Put the rap group? Just put that in a little 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:45.720 you know bubble that Well, no. 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:46.560 You you were? 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:47.359 I was? 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:50.600 I was, Yeah, was this when you were going to college? 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:51.040 Or yeah? 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:51.800 I was in college? 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:53.960 Correct? Where's your major? 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:54.840 Marketing? 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:59.320 Did you know, Gina? Or was that to soon ginicker Sean. 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:03.040 Gina got strong with the n YU acting she. 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:05.560 Wanted to in the n YU and told me, Gina 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:11.679 Kershon is the second person I know that has neglected 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:19.200 her finals, like her college finals, to pursue her actual dream. 0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:24.879 The other person is Ursula Smith set to run. Gina 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.760 told me that she was running late to her very 0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:31.159 final test that she had to take to get her degree, 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:39.600 and Andy Warhol's stopped her and said, you know, you 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:41.920 must be in my video. I think he was directing 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:45.760 a video for the Cars and he wanted her immediately. 0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:48.760 So it's like, do I go to do I take 0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:50.840 this final and get my degree or do I do 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:54.520 this Car's video? What she did the cars video? And 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:59.720 the same story with with Ursula Smith. Ursula was was 0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:03.320 she the official Rush publishes. 0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:05.600 By then or not yet? 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:07.639 Layla la? 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:13.439 So Laila was there when it so I know that. 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:15.040 She. 0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:18.280 There was a group on Tommy Boy called Information Society 0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:23.280 and running, Yeah, running, and it's like one of Stevie 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:24.240 b Uh. 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:27.600 I needed you. 0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:32.280 Like everything over a planet rock that's sort of Stevie 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:33.760 bs freestyle. 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:36.320 Exactly. 0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:40.720 So she uh, she had brought Information Society to a 0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:44.440 college uh in Houston, uh, like part of a spring 0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:47.080 fling thing and all she had to do was take 0:24:47.119 --> 0:24:51.680 her finals. And they asked her like after the show, 0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:54.600 you know, we don't have a tour manager or something 0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:58.240 like would you travel with us? And but they're like 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:03.000 now like in an hour, and she took the opportunity. 0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:05.399 She didn't take her finals. She just packed everything and 0:25:05.520 --> 0:25:08.200 left college and went on tour. 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:12.359 I was gonna leave and Rick said that I should 0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:14.879 finish because I had one semester to go. 0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:17.639 Was Rick Rubin at NYU at the time or no, 0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:20.920 Like was he actually or was that just folklore that 0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:22.240 he just lived there? 0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:25.280 And yeah, so he was a student there. 0:25:25.720 --> 0:25:30.240 Yeah, okay, but by the time I, you know, came aboard, 0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:34.400 he had you know, he was living in the Elizabeth 0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:35.080 Street building. 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:39.800 Okay, because I'm just under the impression that Rick Rubin 0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:43.240 lived in the NYU dorms like during this whole period, 0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:45.560 I'm like, well, when was he actually in college? 0:25:45.720 --> 0:25:48.280 No, because he graduated, he would have had to graduate 0:25:48.320 --> 0:25:48.880 in eighty four. 0:25:50.000 --> 0:25:53.200 Okay, Yeah, okay, that makes. 0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:54.480 Sense, And I graduated in eighty eight. 0:25:54.640 --> 0:26:01.240 So I see, So like when did you well, you 0:26:01.640 --> 0:26:03.560 did a Columbia first correct. 0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:06.879 So, actually, my first first internship was with a company 0:26:06.920 --> 0:26:11.639 called Select Records. Yeah, do you remember Select? Yeah, Whistle, 0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:17.200 Real Rocks and years is eighty six, summer of eighty six. 0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:20.080 Right when that lethal record was coming. 0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:21.120 Yeah. 0:26:22.480 --> 0:26:24.280 So what did you do at Select? 0:26:25.880 --> 0:26:31.159 Made phone calls for you know, Rady, like for I 0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:33.840 don't know, the retailers. How big? 0:26:33.960 --> 0:26:35.760 How big was the company back then? 0:26:36.000 --> 0:26:38.520 It's about the size of this space we're in right now. 0:26:39.040 --> 0:26:45.520 How many employees full time employees? Four including you? 0:26:45.960 --> 0:26:46.840 No, not including me? 0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:49.760 So four and a half yeah, four and a half 0:26:50.160 --> 0:26:56.000 full pack, four pack. So okay, so you left Select 0:26:56.240 --> 0:27:00.840 to go to Colombia. Yeah, was this well, I think 0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:05.040 Terrence was there. What was there? Big eighty six moment. 0:27:04.840 --> 0:27:07.520 For you, Gregory Abbott. 0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:12.840 Wow, he just woke Steve up from the original Mark Morrison. 0:27:20.960 --> 0:27:24.960 I want that by my mother, Steve, you know, shaky down. 0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:27.800 Let me tell you about. 0:27:28.359 --> 0:27:32.320 Tubs from Miami Vice. No, he did, he did. 0:27:32.440 --> 0:27:35.160 Wasn't Philip Michael Thomas on Columbia? That was Atlantic. 0:27:35.320 --> 0:27:36.720 Eddie Murphy was on Columbia. 0:27:37.600 --> 0:27:40.240 Yeah, you know. Did you read that Frint story with 0:27:40.400 --> 0:27:46.520 Eddie Murphy? He was on Columbia's right. Well, okay, the 0:27:46.600 --> 0:27:52.439 thing about Sugar Steve is he is he's the black 0:27:52.880 --> 0:27:56.359 yacht rock expert rock like then you didn't you do 0:27:56.800 --> 0:27:58.520 a book a reporter on like on the Wings of 0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:03.840 Love or something? Wow? Wow, yes, I'm serious. 0:28:04.440 --> 0:28:05.159 Yeah, play it. 0:28:05.480 --> 0:28:10.240 That's my joint. Can you just sing it? I can wait? 0:28:10.280 --> 0:28:13.679 Why did you do a report on on the wings below? Okay? 0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:15.080 So the story was there? 0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:16.960 Was it was actually called it wasn't a report. It's 0:28:16.960 --> 0:28:19.480 called a rollout. It was for a music class in 0:28:19.840 --> 0:28:23.159 middle school junior high as we call it. And basically 0:28:23.200 --> 0:28:27.200 you had to you had to draw the lyrics and 0:28:27.359 --> 0:28:30.359 then and and then as and then and then you 0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:31.840 get in front of the class, you play the song 0:28:31.960 --> 0:28:35.120 on radio or whatever, and then you slowly roll it out. 0:28:35.320 --> 0:28:38.200 That's why it's called roll Yeah. What the school did 0:28:38.200 --> 0:28:40.080 you go to? See why? You smoke a lot of weed? 0:28:40.240 --> 0:28:40.440 Yeah? 0:28:40.560 --> 0:28:40.760 Yeah? 0:28:42.000 --> 0:28:42.840 Did you have grades? 0:28:43.320 --> 0:28:55.160 So so anyway, you you get in front of the 0:28:55.160 --> 0:28:56.960 class and you slowly roll it out while the music 0:28:57.040 --> 0:28:59.240 is playing so that you see the lyrics and drawing 0:28:59.760 --> 0:29:02.160 and so you know, the guy, the music teacher says, 0:29:02.240 --> 0:29:04.680 choose a choose a song that you love and and 0:29:05.040 --> 0:29:07.080 use that as your as your rollout topic. 0:29:07.080 --> 0:29:12.000 And yours on the wings at yo, matter of fact, 0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:18.040 you can you describe you're oh, please, any reason to 0:29:18.080 --> 0:29:18.520 play this song? 0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:25.480 So so the day of the rollout comes and and 0:29:26.080 --> 0:29:29.040 I'm sitting in the class and the first the first 0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:32.720 u the first student goes and he chose like led 0:29:32.800 --> 0:29:35.360 Zeppelin or something. The next guy comes and it's deep purple. 0:29:35.440 --> 0:29:38.880 And the next guy comes in it's you know, black 0:29:38.960 --> 0:29:43.000 Sabbath and uh. And then Steve walks up there and 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:46.280 and I knew right there I had made sort of 0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:50.920 a misjudgment, but I had to follow through it. But 0:29:51.080 --> 0:29:53.480 it turns out that I got an a in it 0:29:53.600 --> 0:29:55.200 because my music teacher. 0:29:56.120 --> 0:29:56.680 It was black. 0:29:57.280 --> 0:30:10.520 No, he was gay, Sugar Steed, a man from downtown, right, 0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:12.000 so Gregory Abby at Columbia. 0:30:13.880 --> 0:30:16.240 You know that Jeffrey Osborne would do that as was 0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:20.000 so disappointing to me. Oh, you know, how do you 0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:21.600 go from love ballad? 0:30:21.720 --> 0:30:26.880 And the thing is is that you. 0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:31.080 Whether you want to admit it or not, I mean 0:30:31.120 --> 0:30:36.280 your hip. But you're a suit. I mean you're not 0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:38.560 the artist. I mean at a label, you're either going 0:30:38.640 --> 0:30:43.600 to be the artist or you're going to be the suit. Now, 0:30:44.640 --> 0:30:48.520 I mean, what were the conditions at a record label 0:30:49.440 --> 0:30:54.080 that told that particular artist that I need to cross 0:30:54.160 --> 0:30:55.400 over and. 0:30:58.160 --> 0:31:01.240 And win for survival? Sick? I don't. I don't think 0:31:01.280 --> 0:31:05.320 people cross over just for you know, just for the 0:31:05.440 --> 0:31:05.960 joy of it. 0:31:06.160 --> 0:31:10.480 I think it's it's no, it's a calculated decision. It's 0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:12.560 like some survival. 0:31:13.000 --> 0:31:13.040 No. 0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:13.640 Absolutely. 0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:16.040 And I mean particularly in the eighties, I mean that 0:31:16.160 --> 0:31:18.000 was at the time where you had like a lot 0:31:18.080 --> 0:31:20.720 of black artists. I mean they was making like that 0:31:20.880 --> 0:31:23.720 fucking ABC Friday Night music, you know what I mean, 0:31:23.880 --> 0:31:28.040 like fucking Stir it Up by Patty and then Horn. 0:31:27.880 --> 0:31:44.320 His sisters Friday Night Network. It was exactly so exact pink. 0:31:45.040 --> 0:31:47.600 Well, then again we did we did learn from Sheep 0:31:47.680 --> 0:31:53.040 Gordon that uh that black artists really weren't making money 0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:59.160 on tour. Right, so records was there there there soul 0:31:59.280 --> 0:32:01.840 means of of you know, generating income. 0:32:01.880 --> 0:32:03.440 Yeah, if you didn't have a hit, I mean, and 0:32:03.520 --> 0:32:08.360 I guess if you're watching Thriller, right, you know I 0:32:09.640 --> 0:32:11.640 you too would say like, oh I want my piece 0:32:11.680 --> 0:32:12.400 of the pie as well. 0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:14.800 Yeah, but Harold fall to myya, come on, let's go 0:32:14.840 --> 0:32:22.800 in the studio. Right, So yeah, well he had one 0:32:23.400 --> 0:32:26.320 hit though, Yeah, play me the Rabbit song? So maybe 0:32:26.480 --> 0:32:28.760 maybe I did hear? Yes, you definitely heard, You've heard 0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:31.200 you heard, Shake You Down. It was the number one ahead. Yeah, 0:32:31.240 --> 0:32:32.800 it was there. It was the original Turn of the 0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:33.520 Mac for real. 0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:36.280 It was Turn of the Mac was funkier than. 0:32:36.240 --> 0:32:44.480 That, I mean just in terms of the Yeah, wait, 0:32:44.600 --> 0:32:51.800 who was hidden on soft eighty six? 0:32:52.000 --> 0:32:54.040 It would have been It would have probably been Springsteen, right. 0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:58.200 Yes, that Bonnie Tyler record, remember that one was there? 0:32:58.240 --> 0:33:01.680 That was besides that? Yeah, yea, and. 0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:06.320 The album would head to toe and big audio dynamite 0:33:06.360 --> 0:33:06.680 remember that? 0:33:08.600 --> 0:33:09.840 Yeah? Who? 0:33:10.000 --> 0:33:12.400 Of course Elvis Costello put out two albums that year. 0:33:12.680 --> 0:33:13.680 Okay on Columbia. 0:33:14.000 --> 0:33:15.920 So at the time you were working at so you 0:33:15.960 --> 0:33:17.720 didn't get to choose what department or. 0:33:18.280 --> 0:33:22.080 No, I got stuck in a dance music promotion. That's 0:33:22.120 --> 0:33:22.760 where they put me. 0:33:22.920 --> 0:33:24.200 Who was like your supervisor? 0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:27.600 Who's this woman, Gail Brucewitz. She was the only female 0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:33.000 in the promotion department. And you know, last day of 0:33:33.080 --> 0:33:35.040 my I would sit in her office. You know, I'd 0:33:35.080 --> 0:33:36.920 look at all the plaques on the wall and I'd 0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:39.600 be like, this me is going to be me very soon, 0:33:39.760 --> 0:33:41.000 and I'm going to have this, and I'm going to 0:33:41.080 --> 0:33:41.240 have that. 0:33:42.360 --> 0:33:43.840 Who did you have to look up to back then? 0:33:44.000 --> 0:33:47.000 Was Sylvia Roon the only one that was remotely about 0:33:47.080 --> 0:33:49.760 to win? Well even in eighty six she was still yeah, 0:33:50.240 --> 0:33:51.680 not an executive, No. 0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:58.960 There was really no probably no okay anyway, So the 0:33:59.040 --> 0:34:04.760 last day of my intern and ship. Also in that time, 0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:06.959 I turned twenty one and I had a big birthday 0:34:07.000 --> 0:34:10.360 party and run dyem Sea came and Houdini and the 0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:17.120 Beastie Boys and yeah, because I was I was out 0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:20.520 in the clubs and you know, and I had met 0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:25.359 Russell totally randomly walking down Bleaker Street with the guy 0:34:25.440 --> 0:34:29.680 from London Records, who knew Russell because London used to 0:34:29.680 --> 0:34:34.160 distribute Deaf Jam before they went to Columbia. And so Mike, 0:34:35.160 --> 0:34:37.279 my friend Mike introduced me to Russell, and you know, 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:40.200 my mind's going like, you know, a million miles a minute, 0:34:40.280 --> 0:34:42.160 like this is your moment, this is your chance, you 0:34:42.239 --> 0:34:45.640 better fucking talk your ass off, and like, so I sat. 0:34:45.719 --> 0:34:47.320 He asked us to sit down, and I just like 0:34:47.480 --> 0:34:50.839 went in on every liner note. I had ever read 0:34:51.000 --> 0:34:55.840 every artist, producer, musician, everything, and you know, and he 0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:59.879 looks at me and he's like, what do you do? Said? 0:35:00.200 --> 0:35:02.719 You know, I'm in school and he's like, how do 0:35:02.719 --> 0:35:05.480 you know so much about black music? I was like, 0:35:05.600 --> 0:35:07.520 well this, you know, I grew up listening to this 0:35:07.680 --> 0:35:09.760 and that, this and that. He said, you know, I would, 0:35:10.160 --> 0:35:13.160 I'd hire you from my company, you know if I 0:35:13.239 --> 0:35:14.480 could so stay in touch. 0:35:15.520 --> 0:35:18.520 And you know, and you did you bug him until 0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:19.600 I didn't. 0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:21.480 I didn't, you know, I didn't bug. That was like 0:35:21.600 --> 0:35:25.040 the summer of eighty six and I did the internship 0:35:25.200 --> 0:35:27.640 and you know, I guess the story I was going 0:35:27.719 --> 0:35:31.719 to tell was the woman who I interned for asked 0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:33.360 me to come into her office and she closed the 0:35:33.400 --> 0:35:39.120 door and she started crying. Yep, and she said, stay 0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:41.839 away from this business. It's no place for a woman. 0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:46.840 I'm trying to save you now before you you experience 0:35:46.920 --> 0:35:51.280 any real heartbreak like I experienced, like oh shit, you're crazy. 0:35:52.400 --> 0:35:53.839 Now let it out. 0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:56.440 What what. 0:35:58.880 --> 0:36:01.520 Do you I mean without naming names or whatever, like 0:36:01.800 --> 0:36:06.440 what treatment? What is the environment at a major label? 0:36:06.520 --> 0:36:07.839 The major label of the moment? 0:36:08.000 --> 0:36:11.840 Yeah? Yeah, yet in the coff Yeah, he had just 0:36:12.040 --> 0:36:14.359 left and al Teller was the president at the time. 0:36:18.480 --> 0:36:19.759 Between yet and the coff and. 0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:24.759 Montola came in eighty seven, right, I'm not sure I 0:36:24.840 --> 0:36:27.080 think so. So that was a very short that was 0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:29.800 like eighty five eighty six practically. 0:36:30.000 --> 0:36:30.200 Yeah. 0:36:30.640 --> 0:36:33.440 Wait, why did yet Nikov get dismissed? 0:36:34.280 --> 0:36:36.759 I don't know. I thought he was part of the 0:36:36.800 --> 0:36:40.360 whole you know, pay for play thing that got that 0:36:40.440 --> 0:36:42.200 everybody got caught up the scandal. 0:36:42.560 --> 0:36:45.760 Yeah, well has that ever stopped? 0:36:46.200 --> 0:36:46.239 No? 0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:48.640 No, I thought I'd tell you that we won't stop. 0:36:52.280 --> 0:36:53.160 But can you talk about that? 0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:56.000 That's interesting being a woman in the time, starting as 0:36:56.000 --> 0:36:58.320 an intern and then the trans transition to being the 0:36:58.360 --> 0:37:01.800 first woman at depth jam. Did it make the difference? 0:37:02.040 --> 0:37:06.000 Yeah? Made a huge difference, because you know, I so 0:37:06.160 --> 0:37:08.359 in April comes of eighty seven, I come home from 0:37:08.440 --> 0:37:13.200 school note on the refrigerator. Rick Rubin called, I think 0:37:13.239 --> 0:37:16.520 it's a joke. I asked my roommate, is this for real? 0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:20.440 He said, yeah, I think it is. Call Rick. He 0:37:20.520 --> 0:37:23.560 said yeah. You know, everybody at Columbia thought you were great. 0:37:23.719 --> 0:37:26.400 Russell really likes you. You know, you're really smart. You 0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:28.719 want to come work for Deaf Jam just like that? 0:37:30.200 --> 0:37:32.279 So I said sure. He said, do you want to 0:37:32.280 --> 0:37:34.000 know how much you're going to make? I said sure, 0:37:35.239 --> 0:37:37.680 you know, okay, so school me. 0:37:37.920 --> 0:37:40.640 At least before you get to deaf Jam. What's what's 0:37:40.760 --> 0:37:43.720 the average pay salary? 0:37:43.920 --> 0:37:47.879 Like, Oh, I don't know. They started me at eighteen thousand. 0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:49.680 A year deaf Jam nineteen eighty six. 0:37:49.680 --> 0:37:53.880 Nineteen eighty seven, and you were living in I was 0:37:53.960 --> 0:37:57.920 living in the village on Sullivan Street between Bleaker and 0:37:57.960 --> 0:38:01.080 West third and a fifth floor walk up with other roommates. 0:38:03.080 --> 0:38:06.040 Didn't matter, didn't matter. I would have paid them to 0:38:06.120 --> 0:38:07.440 go work for them. I didn't care. 0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:11.279 Really, Yeah, what what was it about deaf Jam at 0:38:11.320 --> 0:38:11.520 the time? 0:38:11.560 --> 0:38:14.120 That's jam Jam was everything. I mean, look at the 0:38:14.239 --> 0:38:17.800 artists that they had and you know it was you know, 0:38:17.880 --> 0:38:20.080 it's a cliche, but it's true. I mean people would 0:38:20.080 --> 0:38:22.920 go into the store, you know, and it's music factory 0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:24.839 or wherever it was, and there's a deaf Jam logo 0:38:24.960 --> 0:38:26.000 on that vinyl. You buy it. 0:38:27.600 --> 0:38:30.400 You know, I have questions about that though, about the 0:38:30.480 --> 0:38:34.120 deaf Jam label. Yes, it didn't, it didn't. 0:38:34.160 --> 0:38:36.760 That didn't sustain I'm saying at that at this particular 0:38:36.840 --> 0:38:37.640 moment in time. 0:38:37.800 --> 0:38:42.040 Right, you know, Okay, well, no, I'm but what I 0:38:42.120 --> 0:38:46.120 want to know is just what was it that made 0:38:46.160 --> 0:38:46.840 her warn you? 0:38:48.160 --> 0:38:52.000 Oh? Oh, those guys were scumbags. They were awful, They 0:38:52.040 --> 0:38:54.640 were you know, I would get hit on constantly by 0:38:55.719 --> 0:38:58.880 you know, the other promotion guys. Again, it's like the 0:38:59.040 --> 0:39:04.040 characters and Vinyl only real life left over from the seventies. Still, 0:39:04.320 --> 0:39:08.440 you know, in that that mindset, at the total misogyny, 0:39:08.560 --> 0:39:09.759 that's you know, So. 0:39:09.840 --> 0:39:13.480 At any point did they did you did they use 0:39:13.520 --> 0:39:16.320 you as a focus group, like hey, what do you 0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:17.080 think about this guy? 0:39:17.239 --> 0:39:18.879 And it's like Terrence and Derby. 0:39:18.719 --> 0:39:20.960 Or you know, like they didn't ask me anything. I 0:39:21.080 --> 0:39:24.040 was stuff in envelopes going to like Latin Quarter. You know, 0:39:24.400 --> 0:39:29.080 it's like my own thing. Okay, I see, it was 0:39:29.160 --> 0:39:30.880 just it was enough for me to realize that this 0:39:31.040 --> 0:39:32.520 is what I wanted to do with my life, but 0:39:32.600 --> 0:39:34.759 I was going to do it differently from what I 0:39:34.880 --> 0:39:36.520 was experiencing at a major label. 0:39:37.400 --> 0:39:38.759 What were your duties at deaf Jam. 0:39:38.880 --> 0:39:43.040 Then it started off with them wanting to start a 0:39:43.080 --> 0:39:47.840 publishing company and neither of them knew how to do it. 0:39:47.960 --> 0:39:50.880 So they wanted me to go sit with people who 0:39:50.920 --> 0:39:52.919 worked for publishing companies and figure out how it worked 0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:57.080 and then come back and start one for deaf Jam, 0:39:57.360 --> 0:39:58.359 which is what I did. 0:39:59.520 --> 0:40:01.280 And then so you had to learn it on the spot. 0:40:01.560 --> 0:40:03.759 I learned on the spot. I sat with lawyers and 0:40:04.360 --> 0:40:10.839 publishing executives and you know my big earrings, high top 0:40:10.920 --> 0:40:19.800 spot builts. Wow, that should give you a good visual. 0:40:20.800 --> 0:40:21.800 That definitely gave me. 0:40:22.840 --> 0:40:24.360 But by the time you got the Depth Jam, the 0:40:24.400 --> 0:40:26.200 treatment was different, right because you said that, you said 0:40:26.200 --> 0:40:28.000 the guys were a little bit they were worth. 0:40:28.040 --> 0:40:30.480 So we were all like around the same age, you know, 0:40:30.719 --> 0:40:34.320 So there wasn't that weird thing of like these older 0:40:34.400 --> 0:40:37.400 dudes and younger females. You know, we were all and 0:40:39.320 --> 0:40:41.239 it was just it was just a different environment. I 0:40:41.280 --> 0:40:44.520 think we all felt like we were and again not 0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:46.400 to sound like a cliche, you know, but that we 0:40:46.480 --> 0:40:47.920 were really part of something special. 0:40:50.400 --> 0:40:51.280 Your jacket. 0:40:51.360 --> 0:40:54.160 I got my jacket right away. I got the black 0:40:54.719 --> 0:40:57.399 bull wow black yeah. 0:40:57.840 --> 0:41:03.879 Yeah, for those that don't know in nineteen eighty seven, 0:41:04.200 --> 0:41:05.200 eighty eight, eighty. 0:41:05.080 --> 0:41:11.960 Nine, the deaf jam logo on your back, that that 0:41:12.200 --> 0:41:19.080 held wow, that help power like no other. Well you 0:41:19.160 --> 0:41:21.399 know again, I'm saying it like I've lived it, which 0:41:21.600 --> 0:41:22.600 clearly I wasn't there. 0:41:22.719 --> 0:41:24.879 But was it like a limited number of giving out 0:41:25.080 --> 0:41:26.880 like and only certain like you got to be a 0:41:26.960 --> 0:41:28.440 point of management or something like that. 0:41:28.840 --> 0:41:31.000 You just see how to actually work for the company 0:41:31.120 --> 0:41:33.960 and just be maybe one step removed from working for 0:41:34.040 --> 0:41:37.480 the company. No, I don't think interns got jackets. I 0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:39.239 don't think we had interns. We weren't enough of us. 0:41:39.239 --> 0:41:41.319 There was only five of us. We didn't need who 0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:42.200 needed interns? 0:41:42.520 --> 0:41:46.640 Okay? But the what was the power of the deaf 0:41:46.760 --> 0:41:47.400 jam jacket? 0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:50.560 Oh that could get you like chased down the street demos? 0:41:51.640 --> 0:41:52.799 Oh okay, it's the first. 0:41:56.320 --> 0:41:58.360 Everyone else I talked to is like, yeah, man, I 0:41:58.400 --> 0:41:59.919 can get any night glove whatever. 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:02.800 I didn't think about that. I was already like able 0:42:02.880 --> 0:42:03.239 to do that. 0:42:03.520 --> 0:42:06.560 So it's so you wouldn't pip like you wouldn't wear 0:42:06.600 --> 0:42:07.439 that jacket as. 0:42:07.400 --> 0:42:09.960 Your your No, I didn't need to. I already in 0:42:10.120 --> 0:42:12.680 terms of all the clubs and stuff, I was already 0:42:13.760 --> 0:42:16.000 looped in so and established. 0:42:16.000 --> 0:42:21.360 Okay, yeah, so you so you started their publishing company 0:42:21.440 --> 0:42:23.360 for them. Yes, that was the first I know, that 0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:26.680 was something that had to be established. 0:42:26.760 --> 0:42:29.120 Ory even it doesn't it just they thought of it 0:42:29.320 --> 0:42:32.520 as you know, another money making opportunity for the company 0:42:32.560 --> 0:42:34.680 that they weren't taking advantage of and other people were, 0:42:35.600 --> 0:42:36.719 and that's what they wanted to do. 0:42:37.600 --> 0:42:40.840 So they wanted to start their own motown version. 0:42:40.640 --> 0:42:42.600 Of the Joe bet or yes, exactly. 0:42:42.719 --> 0:42:44.560 So did that mean all the def Jam artists had 0:42:44.600 --> 0:42:46.719 to sign their publishing over to deaf Jam? 0:42:47.280 --> 0:42:49.840 That was that was the the intent. 0:42:50.040 --> 0:42:56.359 Yes, did that happen? No, okay, because the artists were 0:42:56.440 --> 0:42:58.120 like the hell out of here. 0:42:58.160 --> 0:43:01.239 Right artists that time had a turned and things like that. 0:43:02.239 --> 0:43:13.080 You know, the concept of original concept was it were 0:43:13.160 --> 0:43:17.719 they a DJ crew with all the advertisements I saw 0:43:17.920 --> 0:43:21.160 was like stressing that, you know, they're a DJ outfit 0:43:21.719 --> 0:43:23.160 with some mcs. 0:43:22.840 --> 0:43:25.040 Like yeah, that sounds right. 0:43:25.680 --> 0:43:29.200 What it was with doctor dre from from TV raps 0:43:29.360 --> 0:43:30.200 and T Money. 0:43:30.239 --> 0:43:32.480 I forget the the other I forget there are other 0:43:32.600 --> 0:43:37.000 names too. Damn, Faith, I know, I'm sorry. It's thirty 0:43:37.120 --> 0:43:37.560 years ago. 0:43:39.320 --> 0:43:43.000 Damn you made me feel bad. What were you doing 0:43:43.080 --> 0:43:44.239 in nineteen eighty five? 0:43:44.440 --> 0:43:44.480 No? 0:43:44.560 --> 0:43:50.200 No, no, okay, So, but there's there's no story or 0:43:50.239 --> 0:43:54.319 recollection of I mean, at one point at that def 0:43:54.440 --> 0:43:59.200 Jam building, the heat got turned on as far as like, 0:44:00.560 --> 0:44:00.960 you know, that. 0:44:01.040 --> 0:44:02.680 Was funny you should say that because we didn't have 0:44:02.719 --> 0:44:07.640 any heat in that building really literally, so it was great. 0:44:07.880 --> 0:44:11.359 We had to wear our troop jackets you know, really yeah, 0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:14.000 and to a win until we moved out of that 0:44:14.120 --> 0:44:14.799 building at all. 0:44:16.360 --> 0:44:18.480 Like, at what point are you promoted. 0:44:18.160 --> 0:44:19.480 To doing A and R? 0:44:19.760 --> 0:44:19.960 Yeah? 0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:25.359 Well also well, aside from the publishing thing, also kind 0:44:25.400 --> 0:44:28.120 of I set up the whole like an R admin 0:44:29.400 --> 0:44:32.040 part of the company that didn't exist prior. 0:44:31.840 --> 0:44:34.520 To it was like it's five of you though, right, Yeah, so. 0:44:34.600 --> 0:44:40.680 It was me doing creating the admin s. I learned 0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:44.280 to talk to lawyers and people at labels and figured 0:44:44.280 --> 0:44:44.600 it out. 0:44:46.200 --> 0:44:48.520 So it's just a learning curve. But by this point, 0:44:48.640 --> 0:44:50.400 like isn't CBS. 0:44:50.080 --> 0:44:52.800 Part of the Yeah, yeah, we were distributed and I 0:44:52.840 --> 0:44:54.400 spent a lot of time up in Columbia. 0:44:54.880 --> 0:44:57.560 Did they give you guys your own cubicle section or 0:44:57.600 --> 0:44:59.400 do you building? 0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:01.799 No, always come up to their building. 0:45:03.360 --> 0:45:07.080 To use their resources and yeah, just to yeah exactly, Okay, 0:45:07.920 --> 0:45:11.360 So how do you how do you like, how do 0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:13.680 you establish it? Admin? This is stuff I don't even 0:45:13.719 --> 0:45:15.719 know that you should be doing now, Like I didn't 0:45:15.760 --> 0:45:16.239 know that. 0:45:17.920 --> 0:45:21.120 Well, there was no like a PO system for the studio, 0:45:22.160 --> 0:45:26.000 so the studio costs were like out of control. Nobody 0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:28.840 was really monitoring it. So there was a lot of 0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:30.880 the company just kind of bleeding money in a lot 0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:33.600 of places because nobody was like minding the store. 0:45:34.040 --> 0:45:35.600 So it's up to you to handle up to. 0:45:35.680 --> 0:45:37.439 Me to handle the business of deaf jam. 0:45:37.640 --> 0:45:39.520 Yeah, and you took that initiative on your own. 0:45:39.840 --> 0:45:43.319 Yes, you just got tired of studios like you guys, 0:45:43.400 --> 0:45:44.680 hold me seventeen thousand dollars. 0:45:45.480 --> 0:45:47.360 Well, the guy who was supposed to be handling a 0:45:47.400 --> 0:45:51.680 lot of this stuff. One day, Rick called me upstairs 0:45:51.760 --> 0:45:54.359 and said this was I guess I had been there 0:45:54.400 --> 0:45:57.680 for four months and he said, I'm giving you a 0:45:57.760 --> 0:46:01.360 promotion I'm giving your raise and I'm firing George, and 0:46:01.400 --> 0:46:02.439 I want you to take his job. 0:46:03.960 --> 0:46:05.520 Yeah, did you have to fire George? 0:46:05.800 --> 0:46:08.640 I didn't have to fire George, Rick, Rick fired George, 0:46:10.800 --> 0:46:14.040 and that's how I started doing all that the Edmond 0:46:14.040 --> 0:46:16.960 stuff that he hadn't been doing. He was, you know, 0:46:18.000 --> 0:46:19.279 too busy doing other things. 0:46:20.040 --> 0:46:22.360 So is this where bigger and depfor enters the picture? 0:46:23.000 --> 0:46:23.120 Uh? 0:46:23.800 --> 0:46:28.200 Yep, all right, now, I know that a big part 0:46:28.280 --> 0:46:32.480 of Rick's disdain for that follow up record One he 0:46:32.520 --> 0:46:33.720 didn't work on it, but two. 0:46:35.040 --> 0:46:36.520 He hated I need Love. 0:46:38.440 --> 0:46:43.200 Now when you guys are getting your daily report, assuming 0:46:43.239 --> 0:46:46.000 that you guys are operating like a real record label 0:46:46.520 --> 0:46:50.160 where you listen to daily reports and listening to new music, 0:46:50.239 --> 0:46:52.440 and this is where we are with the LL record. 0:46:53.840 --> 0:46:55.480 Are you guys in a room at the same time 0:46:55.520 --> 0:47:01.160 where they're like, yo, this is the one? Like what 0:47:01.320 --> 0:47:02.000 are y'all thinking? 0:47:02.640 --> 0:47:04.759 I wasn't thinking that it was the one. I think 0:47:04.880 --> 0:47:07.719 Columbia was really a big part of pushing that. 0:47:08.719 --> 0:47:11.360 Really, h That's interesting because I read somewhere that you 0:47:11.400 --> 0:47:13.520 said you're a very melodic type person, so a lot 0:47:13.600 --> 0:47:15.719 of these songs, in my mind, I thought, were you 0:47:15.880 --> 0:47:19.719 the one that became the voice of women in a 0:47:19.800 --> 0:47:21.560 way that okay, So you know how they say there 0:47:21.600 --> 0:47:23.719 are women female records, you know, the ones with the 0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:26.600 hooks that you can sing. So before you entered the room, 0:47:26.840 --> 0:47:29.239 was there nobody? Was there anybody who thought like that, 0:47:29.840 --> 0:47:31.640 because I would think that I need would have been 0:47:31.680 --> 0:47:32.160 one of yours. 0:47:32.239 --> 0:47:35.120 But yeah, I mean to me, you know, I was 0:47:35.280 --> 0:47:37.680 like a real hip hop head, so it sounded you 0:47:37.800 --> 0:47:40.040 know to me, it sounded corny to me. 0:47:41.160 --> 0:47:45.120 Really, but you didn see the dollars signs like, Yo, 0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:50.280 this is gonna win first real ballot. 0:47:50.680 --> 0:47:55.560 Yeah for the ladies. Yeah, yeah, up to that point, 0:47:55.640 --> 0:47:57.719 you didn't really have well it's not true. 0:47:58.800 --> 0:48:01.120 No, I mean he had that one and I can 0:48:01.200 --> 0:48:03.880 give you more, but it was too beat. It was 0:48:03.960 --> 0:48:06.120 too beat heavy, like I can give you more, and 0:48:06.160 --> 0:48:10.560 still got play on like the street hip Hop hour 0:48:10.680 --> 0:48:16.600 of you know, of Philadelphia. So you know it's wow, 0:48:16.680 --> 0:48:18.799 that's amazing to me. So you just you had Luke 0:48:18.840 --> 0:48:22.719 Waron not even I'm not saying did you personally like it? 0:48:22.880 --> 0:48:24.680 Did you think it was going to be effective to 0:48:24.800 --> 0:48:29.239 help the products sell or did you think, oh he's 0:48:29.320 --> 0:48:32.400 losing his he might lose his credibility with us. 0:48:32.680 --> 0:48:38.560 That's what I thought. Word, yeah, But I was a purist, so. 0:48:40.280 --> 0:48:41.480 I didn't even know that. 0:48:43.000 --> 0:48:45.960 There was a such thing as purest well not even 0:48:48.239 --> 0:48:50.359 I mean, hip hop wasn't selling out back then. 0:48:51.360 --> 0:48:52.160 This was the first. 0:48:52.600 --> 0:48:56.040 This was the first risky like this, this song with Mark, 0:48:56.360 --> 0:49:01.640 the first risk of the compromise of rap hip hop. 0:49:02.200 --> 0:49:03.640 But I don't think I think it worked on me 0:49:03.960 --> 0:49:06.560 was selling out back then because you know, I don't. 0:49:06.640 --> 0:49:09.160 I don't think that the pot of money wasn't as 0:49:09.200 --> 0:49:11.239 big as it was back then, you know, as it 0:49:11.400 --> 0:49:13.560 is now, you know what I mean. So I think, 0:49:13.640 --> 0:49:16.480 like particularly with ll In particularly, I remember reading I 0:49:16.520 --> 0:49:18.040 think it was in his book or something. He was 0:49:18.080 --> 0:49:20.600 saying something to the effect of when he was younger, 0:49:20.719 --> 0:49:22.920 like he would like this movies and people who did 0:49:23.000 --> 0:49:25.879 movies or whatever. And when, of course, you know, knowing 0:49:25.920 --> 0:49:27.719 where he went to his movie and TV career, when 0:49:27.719 --> 0:49:30.040 they checked that asked them on it, he said, well, 0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:31.600 the reason why I dissed it was because I didn't 0:49:31.640 --> 0:49:33.520 think it was possible for me at the time. So 0:49:33.680 --> 0:49:36.000 like in eighty six, I think it was a much 0:49:36.120 --> 0:49:39.800 more risk of quote unquote selling out back then because 0:49:39.840 --> 0:49:41.520 the stakes weren't. 0:49:41.200 --> 0:49:41.799 Really as high. 0:49:41.880 --> 0:49:44.200 It was kind of like, I don't think no one 0:49:44.280 --> 0:49:49.480 knew that there was that much money. Yeah, those are 0:49:49.560 --> 0:49:50.560 novelty records though. 0:49:52.680 --> 0:49:55.240 You know what it is though, is that it wouldn't 0:49:55.239 --> 0:49:58.840 have mattered because radio wasn't gonna play hip hop anyway, exactly. 0:49:59.000 --> 0:50:02.640 Yeah, I don't no when I okay, So I think 0:50:03.200 --> 0:50:09.080 Brian cut creator's cousin uh went to my high school, 0:50:09.680 --> 0:50:12.720 so he had an early copy of Bigger and deathfort 0:50:13.640 --> 0:50:17.279 And when I first heard I Need Love, like and again, 0:50:17.320 --> 0:50:21.480 I wasn't thinking in terms of the future, like I 0:50:21.560 --> 0:50:26.000 straight played your rides that joint and wrote. 0:50:25.880 --> 0:50:30.360 Down every lyric gave it. Oh no, I was the 0:50:30.440 --> 0:50:32.520 man for like a month and a half when a 0:50:32.560 --> 0:50:37.640 record came out. Why does it sound so fa? 0:50:40.560 --> 0:50:42.319 Yeah, I don't think it was a because I mean 0:50:42.320 --> 0:50:45.120 I remember when that record came out, and I was 0:50:45.280 --> 0:50:47.600 just so happy to hear hip hop on the radio 0:50:47.880 --> 0:50:50.880 that it didn't you know, you know, I remember, I 0:50:51.000 --> 0:50:52.760 remember I'm Bad the first time I heard I'm. 0:50:52.640 --> 0:50:53.640 Bad, and I was like, oh Ship. 0:50:54.000 --> 0:50:56.439 But then I Need Love and I was like, oh Ship, 0:50:56.480 --> 0:50:59.000 they're playing this on the radio because it was number 0:50:59.040 --> 0:51:00.160 one for two weeks and. 0:51:00.960 --> 0:51:02.239 Billboards, Uh the. 0:51:03.840 --> 0:51:06.000 I called it the black charts then. 0:51:07.719 --> 0:51:13.000 Records? Yeah, wow, all right. 0:51:13.080 --> 0:51:15.680 So once once it catches fire and you realize that 0:51:16.400 --> 0:51:20.200 we're all gullible, then what were you thinking? 0:51:21.640 --> 0:51:21.960 Mmm? 0:51:22.960 --> 0:51:26.800 I was thinking. I was thinking I was glad I 0:51:26.880 --> 0:51:27.520 was on the album. 0:51:30.680 --> 0:51:34.480 So you thought that there could be a chance that 0:51:35.520 --> 0:51:39.160 this album might not do as good as Radio. 0:51:40.320 --> 0:51:42.560 I think it became clear that that wasn't going to 0:51:42.600 --> 0:51:45.120 be the case. It was going to be much bigger, 0:51:46.040 --> 0:51:46.399 all right. 0:51:46.719 --> 0:51:53.640 So because all these doors were open to him, were 0:51:54.040 --> 0:51:57.040 those doors open to him? Was just the or was 0:51:57.120 --> 0:51:59.919 it just a perception in my mind that the world 0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:03.080 was his oyster? Like I remember you telling me that, 0:52:04.680 --> 0:52:06.600 you know, what was the what was the rat budget 0:52:06.800 --> 0:52:10.319 for l equal J's follow up out? 0:52:10.440 --> 0:52:12.000 Like, what's what for Walking with the Panther? 0:52:12.239 --> 0:52:12.279 No? 0:52:12.400 --> 0:52:16.840 No, no, I mean for bigger, bigger depth, Like I 0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:19.200 remember you telling me that, like you know all the 0:52:19.440 --> 0:52:21.479 La Potts. First of all, why was the La Posse? 0:52:21.520 --> 0:52:22.759 He chose? I chose him? 0:52:22.840 --> 0:52:24.240 I don't know how that happened. 0:52:24.600 --> 0:52:26.680 Was just always out in Cali a. 0:52:26.719 --> 0:52:28.960 Lot, Yeah, and hooked up with them? 0:52:29.120 --> 0:52:34.880 And why didn't Rick Rubin get chosen to produce the 0:52:35.080 --> 0:52:35.640 next record. 0:52:38.080 --> 0:52:42.120 I don't know. I think he thought he wanted maybe 0:52:42.160 --> 0:52:45.160 he wanted more artistic control, he wanted to be hit 0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:46.680 somebody he brought into the mix. 0:52:47.360 --> 0:52:53.320 Not sure really mm hmm, but like there wasn't anyone 0:52:53.400 --> 0:52:54.040 at the label to. 0:52:54.080 --> 0:52:57.080 Tell him, like yo, Like, I don't think Rick wanted 0:52:57.080 --> 0:52:57.480 to do it. 0:52:57.560 --> 0:52:58.879 And not broken, don't. 0:52:59.239 --> 0:53:00.520 I don't think Rick wanted to do it. 0:53:01.520 --> 0:53:08.719 Really. Yeah, it's not strange to you. 0:53:09.200 --> 0:53:11.880 Yeah, it's really strange to me now looking back on it. 0:53:12.000 --> 0:53:15.399 Yeah, Okay, when we get ric grouping, that's exactly where 0:53:15.400 --> 0:53:15.960 I'm asking. 0:53:16.239 --> 0:53:18.080 Okay, why didn't you follow up? 0:53:18.200 --> 0:53:20.319 Yeah, I mean this all happened, you know, this whole 0:53:20.600 --> 0:53:22.799 thing went down in eighty six before I got there. 0:53:22.960 --> 0:53:26.760 So Rick was also busy doing like Slayer records and stuff. 0:53:26.920 --> 0:53:29.320 He was really into his death metal shit, you know, 0:53:29.560 --> 0:53:34.160 Danzig Slayer. In fact, you know, when I had my 0:53:34.320 --> 0:53:36.960 interview with him, I first when he called me and 0:53:37.000 --> 0:53:39.200 he said, will you come, you know, come and we'll 0:53:39.280 --> 0:53:43.040 talk about the job. And so I went to him, 0:53:43.400 --> 0:53:47.400 and uh, I was you know, I just had so 0:53:47.520 --> 0:53:48.880 much I wanted to ask him, and so much I 0:53:48.920 --> 0:53:52.160 wanted to say, and I was talking about different records, 0:53:52.200 --> 0:53:53.920 and he said, you know, I'm not really into like 0:53:53.960 --> 0:53:55.080 the hip hop thing right now. 0:53:56.800 --> 0:54:01.680 Really, m damn fooled me to the hip hop Yeah 0:54:01.840 --> 0:54:02.759 damn what he said. 0:54:02.880 --> 0:54:05.239 And he's and he told me about these these these 0:54:05.520 --> 0:54:07.320 you know, these metal acts that he was working with. 0:54:07.600 --> 0:54:09.120 He came back, why your heartbroken? 0:54:09.880 --> 0:54:10.879 It took like twenty years. 0:54:10.920 --> 0:54:14.680 Yeah, so that's so that's why I say, I think 0:54:14.760 --> 0:54:16.319 that he was just in a different mind state. 0:54:16.400 --> 0:54:18.520 And like I think from what I've read, like there 0:54:18.560 --> 0:54:20.520 was just a lot ofttension between him and Russell and 0:54:20.560 --> 0:54:21.799 he was just starting to lose a lot of lose 0:54:21.880 --> 0:54:23.440 interest in the hip hop thing at all. 0:54:23.600 --> 0:54:26.719 Yeah, that's absolutely correct, and he told me as much. 0:54:27.080 --> 0:54:36.839 So, oh god, you just yoursels there. Yeah, I see. 0:54:37.280 --> 0:54:40.719 So of course you come aboard after the License to Ill. 0:54:40.960 --> 0:54:46.399 I thought that perhaps maybe the after effects of License. 0:54:46.120 --> 0:54:50.080 To Ill and this is well, I mean, at the time, 0:54:50.239 --> 0:54:50.800 it sold. 0:54:50.600 --> 0:54:54.600 At least seven eight million, so I would figure that 0:54:54.640 --> 0:54:59.080 would single handedlye give you guys the juice monetarily at 0:54:59.160 --> 0:55:01.960 least to stand on your own two. 0:55:01.920 --> 0:55:05.520 And oh yeah, allow you to sign everything. 0:55:05.880 --> 0:55:06.080 Yep. 0:55:08.040 --> 0:55:16.280 So again I have these romantic visions of the perception 0:55:16.440 --> 0:55:17.719 of Nation of. 0:55:17.760 --> 0:55:20.920 Millions as the first album I got thanked on. 0:55:22.320 --> 0:55:25.000 Well, that's the first rap album with real liner notes 0:55:25.040 --> 0:55:28.480 that I've ever seen. The album that I feel is though, 0:55:29.400 --> 0:55:35.319 really at least got the rock critics attention as far 0:55:35.480 --> 0:55:41.480 as really, I mean the message. The message as a 0:55:41.560 --> 0:55:45.520 single did some you know, did some work in helping 0:55:45.640 --> 0:55:50.320 to make hip hop credible in the eyes of rock critics. 0:55:50.400 --> 0:55:54.920 But I mean, if you were around and aware of 0:55:55.239 --> 0:55:58.520 music journalists in nineteen eighty eight, you saw nothing like 0:55:59.719 --> 0:56:03.160 the effect of what Nation and Millions had on rock critics. 0:56:03.960 --> 0:56:04.520 I think. 0:56:06.040 --> 0:56:11.439 That particular year it topped the Passing Job Critics poll. 0:56:12.600 --> 0:56:17.520 The Passing Job is kind of the the music critic 0:56:17.680 --> 0:56:21.759 version of what I would deem rotten Tomatoes, where you 0:56:22.000 --> 0:56:25.880 just sum up in total every music critic across the country. 0:56:26.719 --> 0:56:28.879 They give their top ten lists and reasons for why 0:56:28.920 --> 0:56:33.480 they felt these albums were important. And Nation Millions was 0:56:33.560 --> 0:56:36.400 the first hip hop record I believe in the album 0:56:37.280 --> 0:56:41.279 to top the polls. So at the time when you 0:56:41.440 --> 0:56:44.200 guys are getting this, I've heard a lot of stories 0:56:46.719 --> 0:56:51.360 including well DMC told me that it was him and 0:56:51.480 --> 0:56:54.440 jam Master Jay that even allowed Rebel without a pause 0:56:54.520 --> 0:56:59.040 to beat because Russell hated Rebel without a pause. So 0:56:59.040 --> 0:57:02.319 I'm assuming again and that you're saying that Russell's tastes 0:57:02.360 --> 0:57:03.920 and rick tastes work very different. 0:57:05.040 --> 0:57:06.680 Well, I mean that's the story. You know, it's a 0:57:06.719 --> 0:57:10.120 true story that that Russell never liked Public Enemy from 0:57:10.120 --> 0:57:13.160 the beginning. And I thought that they should be, you know, 0:57:13.320 --> 0:57:16.760 wearing Adidas sweatsuits. And you know, he just had his 0:57:16.920 --> 0:57:19.920 own vision of what it should be, and Rick had 0:57:19.960 --> 0:57:21.919 a had another vision. 0:57:22.520 --> 0:57:24.760 It's just crazy to me, like, how okay, how you 0:57:24.840 --> 0:57:28.440 see like three white kids from Brooklyn and you see 0:57:28.520 --> 0:57:34.760 dollar sign but you can't see that you know, these 0:57:34.880 --> 0:57:37.680 scary this this crew from Long Island. 0:57:37.760 --> 0:57:40.760 Well, I mean yeah, I guess if on paper a 0:57:40.840 --> 0:57:44.080 group from Long Island could be the most political important 0:57:44.120 --> 0:57:47.400 group of of our time and you just don't see 0:57:48.280 --> 0:57:49.000 how that works. 0:57:49.480 --> 0:57:51.440 Public Enemy was probably I can see them being a 0:57:51.520 --> 0:57:54.680 very tough Sell. It was scary sounding, it was noisy, 0:57:54.840 --> 0:57:56.880 Yeah for eighty eight. 0:57:56.800 --> 0:57:58.720 It was it was it was some radical ship. 0:57:58.800 --> 0:58:00.560 And they're black, Like maybe they were white, it'd be 0:58:00.640 --> 0:58:03.840 easier sell for Russell since he is black. Sometimes we 0:58:03.920 --> 0:58:05.280 get in our own way, right, I don't. 0:58:05.080 --> 0:58:08.400 Know, Well, yeah, but I'm just saying that for me, 0:58:08.600 --> 0:58:12.240 I just I thought there was an instant easy sell 0:58:12.600 --> 0:58:18.400 because the way that Chuck d kind of centered the group, 0:58:18.920 --> 0:58:24.200 which I mean, when I saw them, I didn't necessary 0:58:24.200 --> 0:58:26.000 I mean, I'm not saying I didn't pay attention, but. 0:58:27.600 --> 0:58:30.240 Only when when too much posse came on. And then 0:58:30.240 --> 0:58:32.840 I realized, wait, one of these guys talks way more 0:58:32.920 --> 0:58:34.480 shit than the other members. 0:58:37.520 --> 0:58:39.440 I couldn't tell, Like you see the album cover, you 0:58:39.560 --> 0:58:41.960 just see like six black guys, You're like, oh, which 0:58:42.000 --> 0:58:42.440 one is talk? 0:58:42.520 --> 0:58:43.640 Who was the one? Right? 0:58:43.880 --> 0:58:46.600 But I noticed, like, wait, one of these guys talks 0:58:46.800 --> 0:58:49.400 way more shit than the other guys doing this group, 0:58:49.520 --> 0:58:52.960 And then that that became my attraction, Like anytime the 0:58:53.000 --> 0:58:56.440 shit talking one spoke, it was funny and so and 0:58:56.640 --> 0:58:58.280 but that was by design, like they. 0:58:58.280 --> 0:59:00.720 Purposely, Yeah, it was the full flavor. Was they used 0:59:00.720 --> 0:59:01.840 flavor flavor. 0:59:04.680 --> 0:59:06.840 About Public Enemy? Because somebody recently said that to me 0:59:06.920 --> 0:59:09.560 that everything was so purposeful and the way that the 0:59:09.600 --> 0:59:12.200 group was put together, Is that truely? And how much 0:59:12.440 --> 0:59:14.560 was it purposeful and how much was just organic? 0:59:15.720 --> 0:59:18.440 I think a lot of it was very purposeful. I think, 0:59:18.560 --> 0:59:22.360 well there was you know, they had the they had 0:59:22.400 --> 0:59:25.840 the radio show, you know, and that's how Chuck w 0:59:26.160 --> 0:59:29.040 B A I. Yeah, and that's how Chuck connected with Flavor. 0:59:29.120 --> 0:59:31.160 So that was organic. That was before they kind of 0:59:31.280 --> 0:59:36.200 actually started the group Spectrum City Spectrum City. Yeah. But 0:59:36.320 --> 0:59:39.000 the whole idea of adding the S one w's and 0:59:39.080 --> 0:59:41.600 the whole thing that was that was you know, that 0:59:41.760 --> 0:59:42.560 was show business. 0:59:43.480 --> 0:59:44.160 It was smart. 0:59:44.480 --> 0:59:45.440 It was very smart. 0:59:45.520 --> 0:59:48.360 Well this leads to all right, before we get to 0:59:48.480 --> 0:59:53.920 your Columbia illmatic period, one of my favorite stories of 0:59:54.160 --> 0:59:57.800 all time, if I mean, the reason why I even 0:59:57.840 --> 1:00:00.840 wanted to do the show. It's just though that one 1:00:00.960 --> 1:00:05.280 day MC search could come on a guy who has 1:00:05.440 --> 1:00:07.080 so many stories. 1:00:06.920 --> 1:00:13.080 Of yeah, yes when sorry, I love Search too. 1:00:13.600 --> 1:00:21.120 So Cordon's Search Hammer, here's his mom's being called out 1:00:21.200 --> 1:00:22.880 like that. Uh. 1:00:23.960 --> 1:00:26.160 Pete Nice was trying to explain to Hammer that it 1:00:26.280 --> 1:00:29.920 was a pun of turn this mother out. The cactus 1:00:29.960 --> 1:00:33.800 turned Hammer's mother out. But Hammer was the way what. 1:00:34.000 --> 1:00:36.280 Was thee what was the good way of looking at it? 1:00:37.640 --> 1:00:42.360 Well, anyway, they put a hit out on their lives, 1:00:42.440 --> 1:00:45.120 and I guess the legend never put a hit out 1:00:45.120 --> 1:00:48.600 on third basis Lie Oakland. Yeah. 1:00:49.760 --> 1:00:49.880 Uh. 1:00:50.240 --> 1:00:54.960 And so as Search gets on the plane, Search and uh, 1:00:55.200 --> 1:00:57.200 Pete Nice get on the plane. I think they're flying 1:00:57.240 --> 1:01:00.840 out to LA to do the party machine, which is 1:01:01.440 --> 1:01:09.240 our Senio Hall's post show people's Yes, yeah, missus, Howard 1:01:09.280 --> 1:01:11.280 Hewett Yeah. 1:01:11.160 --> 1:01:11.520 Wait what. 1:01:13.680 --> 1:01:14.360 Wait were you around? 1:01:15.440 --> 1:01:15.560 Oh? 1:01:15.640 --> 1:01:19.600 They got married, right, they didn't have a kid. 1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:21.960 It was like yes, yea. 1:01:22.560 --> 1:01:27.400 Anyway, so the five hour duration of this flight, I'm 1:01:27.440 --> 1:01:29.560 not going to give the entire story a weight because 1:01:29.560 --> 1:01:33.880 Search will tell it way better than me. But there 1:01:34.000 --> 1:01:36.560 was a lot of kumbaya and having it, you know, 1:01:36.760 --> 1:01:40.680 to go on, uh, to keep them from getting killed, 1:01:41.520 --> 1:01:48.600 which ended with Michael Concepcion h sitting sitting next to 1:01:49.360 --> 1:01:53.040 Yeah in his wheelchair, sitting next to Michael Jackson, who 1:01:53.160 --> 1:01:56.440 wasn't even supposed to be If you remember the American 1:01:56.560 --> 1:02:01.439 Music Awards with when Eddie Murphy Michael Jackson are giving 1:02:01.480 --> 1:02:04.040 each other like Artists of the Decade Awards whatever. None 1:02:04.080 --> 1:02:06.920 of that stuff was ever supposed to happen. So I 1:02:07.080 --> 1:02:11.040 guess Russell since that the threat to their lives was 1:02:11.840 --> 1:02:17.560 so big that Russell called Donnie and Tommy please make 1:02:17.640 --> 1:02:21.400 something happen, And of course, in talking to Michael Concepcion, 1:02:21.560 --> 1:02:24.400 the only person that could put the halt to the 1:02:24.560 --> 1:02:29.240 hite of One of his stipulations was one, find me 1:02:29.320 --> 1:02:30.640 a label to do We're all. 1:02:30.600 --> 1:02:34.960 In the Same Gang, which is weird because Russell could 1:02:35.000 --> 1:02:37.000 have just easily said, I'll put it on my label, 1:02:37.080 --> 1:02:38.120 but instead Russell's like. 1:02:40.840 --> 1:02:41.920 Like, I want none to do. 1:02:42.600 --> 1:02:46.480 It was all West Coast right. Well, no, it was 1:02:46.520 --> 1:02:48.440 not even Third Base. Def Jam didn't even have any 1:02:48.480 --> 1:02:49.200 acts on that record. 1:02:50.160 --> 1:02:53.920 I would have just thought in I mean, in a 1:02:54.120 --> 1:02:56.360 five hour flight to LA and you're trying to save 1:02:56.400 --> 1:03:00.400 someone's life. He was still like, I don't you can 1:03:00.480 --> 1:03:02.480 go to Warner Brothers. I'll hook you up, like there's 1:03:02.520 --> 1:03:04.320 somebody over there that will take your record. 1:03:05.200 --> 1:03:07.720 He would have had nothing to benefit from that. Oh, 1:03:08.280 --> 1:03:09.800 especially if you heard the rest of that all on 1:03:09.800 --> 1:03:10.600 the Same Gang album? 1:03:12.040 --> 1:03:14.200 Did you buy that as well? I did not buy it. 1:03:14.280 --> 1:03:16.920 I dodged that bullet. A buddy of mine bought it. 1:03:17.600 --> 1:03:20.800 It's about Bill. It's about Bill. Bill. Did you purchase 1:03:21.880 --> 1:03:23.640 We're All on the Same Gang album? 1:03:23.920 --> 1:03:23.960 No? 1:03:24.200 --> 1:03:27.640 Just the twelve in Okay? It was that the album 1:03:27.720 --> 1:03:28.040 is that bad? 1:03:28.640 --> 1:03:30.640 It was more songs with the same album. 1:03:30.720 --> 1:03:30.920 It was. 1:03:31.120 --> 1:03:34.400 It wasn't It was just like solo tracks from other 1:03:34.440 --> 1:03:39.600 people that no one knew was not at all okay, 1:03:39.800 --> 1:03:41.560 like Deaf Jeff's Weed Rollers. 1:03:45.480 --> 1:03:48.400 Well anyway, so Michael. 1:03:48.640 --> 1:03:53.080 So then the legend is that Donnie and Tommy Mantola 1:03:53.680 --> 1:03:58.680 had to then call it Dick Clark. Uh two oh 1:03:58.800 --> 1:04:01.680 because Michael because actually un insisted on sitting next to 1:04:01.720 --> 1:04:04.439 Michael Jackson American Music Awards and they're like, well, he's 1:04:04.480 --> 1:04:07.600 not coming, he's not up for anything, so that's not 1:04:07.720 --> 1:04:09.520 going to happen. He's like, well, I'm sorry, I can't 1:04:09.560 --> 1:04:12.400 help you. Okay, we'll make it happen. And then they 1:04:12.480 --> 1:04:16.960 had to beg Dick Clark to give Michael a special award. 1:04:17.760 --> 1:04:22.680 But then once Bob Jones and Michael Jackson reluctantly agreed 1:04:22.720 --> 1:04:26.280 to do this, then their stipulation was, well, someone important 1:04:26.320 --> 1:04:29.480 has to give it to us. We want Eddie Murphy 1:04:29.520 --> 1:04:32.200 to give us this award. And Eddie Murphy is so 1:04:32.360 --> 1:04:38.439 busy doing no Harlem Knights he couldn't leave the set. 1:04:38.560 --> 1:04:41.840 So then they had to call the paramount like this 1:04:42.240 --> 1:04:48.520 just oh my God of Domino fuckery, just for this moment. 1:04:49.240 --> 1:04:51.000 So was this worth this faith? 1:04:51.160 --> 1:04:51.200 No? 1:04:56.760 --> 1:04:56.960 Yeah? 1:04:57.640 --> 1:05:00.240 All this ship over there have third Base album jail. Yeah, 1:05:00.440 --> 1:05:06.560 even a side like a filler cut. So the whole 1:05:06.720 --> 1:05:09.640 Third Base project? Did you sign Third Base? 1:05:10.120 --> 1:05:10.160 No? 1:05:10.440 --> 1:05:11.280 But I worked with him. 1:05:11.600 --> 1:05:15.400 How did they come into your How did they even 1:05:15.440 --> 1:05:16.240 come to the Deaf Jam? 1:05:16.480 --> 1:05:18.280 They came to the Deaf Jam as far as I 1:05:18.360 --> 1:05:20.000 can recall through Sam Severn. 1:05:20.680 --> 1:05:25.800 Okay, but was this was this some Chico Bar's D'Angelo 1:05:26.040 --> 1:05:31.600 revenge mission thing? Yeah, like the Beastie Boys left us, 1:05:31.680 --> 1:05:34.760 so now we need a new white group with credibility. 1:05:35.200 --> 1:05:37.160 Yeah. I had something to do with it, and search 1:05:37.320 --> 1:05:42.880 was really I mean I met him in eighty I 1:05:43.080 --> 1:05:45.920 want to say eighty five at Union Square. 1:05:46.960 --> 1:05:47.240 Okay. 1:05:47.640 --> 1:05:50.720 When people guests come on the show, everyone has a 1:05:50.800 --> 1:05:54.440 Latin Quarter story. Were you a Latin Quarter ahead? Or Oh, 1:05:55.120 --> 1:05:58.040 how come I'm not meeting anyone that's like, hell, no. 1:05:58.160 --> 1:06:00.400 I never went to the Latin Quarter lived in the 1:06:00.480 --> 1:06:00.960 Latin Quarter? 1:06:01.160 --> 1:06:05.360 What I've been that person? Yes, Dante Dante Ross told 1:06:05.400 --> 1:06:07.000 you that you wouldn't you wouldn't have gone there. 1:06:07.120 --> 1:06:10.720 Yeah, so you still would go to Latin Quarter even 1:06:10.760 --> 1:06:13.800 though there was a risk factor involved. 1:06:15.680 --> 1:06:16.360 And it was worth it. 1:06:16.720 --> 1:06:18.920 It was worth it every time, except for the night 1:06:19.040 --> 1:06:21.240 that they shut it down. Where I was at that night. 1:06:21.560 --> 1:06:24.280 Everybody was there at the night they shut down down corner. 1:06:24.680 --> 1:06:26.480 What happened the night they shut down. 1:06:27.040 --> 1:06:30.800 As I remember it, Yeah, l was there and somebody 1:06:31.000 --> 1:06:35.320 snatched his chain, which happened a lot of the Latin Quarter, 1:06:36.280 --> 1:06:38.880 you know, and it set off the sequence of events 1:06:39.080 --> 1:06:42.360 with like this, I don't know, people like this mass 1:06:43.280 --> 1:06:45.760 of people running to get away. I think somebody had 1:06:45.800 --> 1:06:50.280 a knife or something and like and then they are 1:06:50.280 --> 1:06:53.800 already just spilling out into Times Square afterwards. But I 1:06:53.880 --> 1:06:57.120 remember there was like you went upstairs to the you 1:06:57.200 --> 1:06:58.960 came in, then you went upstairs that's where the main 1:06:59.040 --> 1:07:02.800 area was, and there was it's like this marble like 1:07:03.040 --> 1:07:05.080 mirrored thing on the side of the stairs. It was 1:07:05.160 --> 1:07:06.960 just covered with blood, like all the way. 1:07:06.880 --> 1:07:11.320 Down and no bullets, no bullet hard work bullom. Yeah, 1:07:11.520 --> 1:07:15.320 that sounds like hard work, you know, staffman and punching. 1:07:15.600 --> 1:07:18.240 Yeah, that might be the quartered episode, right. 1:07:24.160 --> 1:07:26.160 As I remember, that was the last night. It was 1:07:26.240 --> 1:07:29.480 last night I ever went there last night last night. 1:07:31.080 --> 1:07:34.960 Yeah, you only got one time, and still it wasn't. 1:07:34.800 --> 1:07:38.000 As bad as a rooftop, and you still went to 1:07:38.040 --> 1:07:39.920 the rooftop. I stopped going to the rooftop. 1:07:40.320 --> 1:07:41.160 What was the rooftop? 1:07:41.320 --> 1:07:43.600 Like it was crazy, but there was a lot of 1:07:44.720 --> 1:07:46.400 a lot of shit went down the rooftop. 1:07:46.480 --> 1:07:48.880 All right, So what's the pros of going to the 1:07:49.000 --> 1:07:51.880 rooftop in the Latin corner? What's the pros? 1:07:52.040 --> 1:07:54.880 The pros especially Latin Quarter. I mean Pe did their 1:07:54.920 --> 1:07:55.560 first show there. 1:07:55.960 --> 1:07:57.240 I heard that didn't go over too well. 1:07:57.280 --> 1:08:02.160 Though I thought it was great. I didn't it didn't 1:08:02.200 --> 1:08:03.760 go over great. It wasn't you know. 1:08:04.440 --> 1:08:08.160 Okay, So I've been to the tunnel during the tunnel 1:08:08.200 --> 1:08:12.080 period tunnel era. Yeah, so was was it the equivalent 1:08:12.160 --> 1:08:16.720 of going to the tunnel? Yes, nightclub with big speakers 1:08:16.760 --> 1:08:17.559 that were yes. 1:08:17.960 --> 1:08:21.080 Just crazy. You imagine they're playing like nobody beats the 1:08:21.120 --> 1:08:25.360 biz like loud loud as ship like a right, it 1:08:25.520 --> 1:08:26.640 was the ship, So. 1:08:26.800 --> 1:08:29.560 There was worth it. So as a woman, as a 1:08:29.760 --> 1:08:33.519 white person, as someone that works at deaf Jam with 1:08:33.680 --> 1:08:37.160 this this jacket, well, even though you were past deaf Jam, 1:08:37.240 --> 1:08:42.400 I'm certain that you had some sort of swaggish or 1:08:42.680 --> 1:08:46.080 about you that let people know that, oh there's faith 1:08:46.160 --> 1:08:49.640 newman from data or whatever. Yeah, yeah, for sure, Like 1:08:50.000 --> 1:08:50.800 that didn't bother you. 1:08:51.000 --> 1:08:53.120 Like, first of all, how does how does anyone get 1:08:53.160 --> 1:08:57.200 that close to ll for him to even get his chain? Like, 1:08:57.520 --> 1:09:00.160 is there not a VP section or you're not even 1:09:00.200 --> 1:09:00.840 save him VIP. 1:09:01.200 --> 1:09:03.680 I don't think there's was there a VIP section. I 1:09:03.720 --> 1:09:08.320 don't remember him being in a special section. Wow, I 1:09:08.360 --> 1:09:09.000 don't remember that. 1:09:09.680 --> 1:09:12.920 So you just why wait, I would figure that LLLL 1:09:13.160 --> 1:09:13.799 was passed. 1:09:15.160 --> 1:09:17.400 Maybe it's the stuff of the legend. I don't know, 1:09:17.800 --> 1:09:25.439 it's like what eighty six, So yeah, he wouldn't have 1:09:25.479 --> 1:09:29.479 been passed eighty seven, sorry eighty seven, my mistaken eighty seven. 1:09:29.680 --> 1:09:31.519 He wouldn't have been pasted. Yeah, I don't know. I 1:09:31.720 --> 1:09:35.360 just imagine like LLLL just being too big or too 1:09:35.600 --> 1:09:36.280 good for that. 1:09:37.160 --> 1:09:37.360 Yeah. 1:09:37.400 --> 1:09:39.160 But do you go there and you like show up 1:09:39.240 --> 1:09:41.720 and you're like the fucking man, Oh I'm still down? Yeah? 1:09:41.920 --> 1:09:48.280 Or yeah, I see. So even though with Union Square and. 1:09:48.640 --> 1:09:51.360 Any of those, Union Square was the bomb too, but 1:09:51.479 --> 1:09:54.200 you had you know, you had the Bronx and Queens 1:09:54.280 --> 1:09:56.599 like separated by levels. 1:09:57.520 --> 1:09:59.880 Yeah, because that's what Kidden play around about. That's my 1:10:00.080 --> 1:10:03.160 experience of Union Square. I just know that the Fresh 1:10:03.200 --> 1:10:03.760 Prince and jazz. 1:10:04.720 --> 1:10:08.960 Yeah, but there's something to which you just asked faith though, 1:10:09.000 --> 1:10:11.680 because I'm curious, like how you how you were back then, 1:10:11.760 --> 1:10:14.120 because like your ship didn't stink and you were very young. 1:10:14.560 --> 1:10:16.960 You were having parties where Grandma's to flash with DJing 1:10:16.960 --> 1:10:20.040 at your house and stuff like that, So like, how 1:10:20.320 --> 1:10:23.320 was the the ego and the humbleness back then because 1:10:23.320 --> 1:10:23.839 you knew. 1:10:24.280 --> 1:10:27.800 Still, no, it was different, Like I knew that I was, 1:10:28.240 --> 1:10:31.840 but I was stumble at the same time, Like I think, 1:10:32.080 --> 1:10:36.960 uh yeah, I mean I you know, I was one 1:10:37.000 --> 1:10:39.400 of the only you know, I was the only woman 1:10:39.479 --> 1:10:40.479 at deaf Jam at the time. 1:10:40.600 --> 1:10:43.840 That was that was something, you know, so that still 1:10:44.000 --> 1:10:46.719 held weight and honor. 1:10:47.080 --> 1:10:50.639 Yes, okay, But you also mentioned people chasing with their demos, 1:10:50.800 --> 1:10:53.800 and that's the thing like when Marlon Marl did this 1:10:53.920 --> 1:10:57.080 episode and I'm like, yo, dude, you're still living in 1:10:57.160 --> 1:10:59.200 the projects when all these hits are out. How are 1:10:59.200 --> 1:11:02.960 these people not stalking you to make the stars because 1:11:03.120 --> 1:11:07.120 normally the people that will stalk you that which is 1:11:07.200 --> 1:11:11.400 weird hearing that the way that you approached Russell Simmons one, 1:11:12.680 --> 1:11:18.400 what or who's protecting you from stalkers? Especially with deaf Jam, 1:11:19.640 --> 1:11:22.400 the label that everyone dreamed of being on, which I'm 1:11:22.439 --> 1:11:26.000 certain that you guys got way more nos than yes. 1:11:26.200 --> 1:11:29.240 Speaking of which, who did y'all say no to? 1:11:30.800 --> 1:11:30.840 That? 1:11:32.280 --> 1:11:32.320 Is? 1:11:32.360 --> 1:11:36.280 There is the list of they're not deaf jam material like, 1:11:37.000 --> 1:11:38.080 I mean, this is going to. 1:11:38.120 --> 1:11:41.560 Sound you know they could give me but Vanilla. 1:11:41.320 --> 1:11:47.280 Ice, Wow, was he close to coming to deaf jam 1:11:47.400 --> 1:11:47.680 or was. 1:11:47.720 --> 1:11:49.360 It like no, it was a demo. It was like 1:11:49.439 --> 1:11:51.760 a just you know, a demo like any other. 1:11:52.160 --> 1:11:54.040 You would listen to actively listen to demos. 1:11:54.400 --> 1:11:55.479 How long did you listen to his? 1:11:56.400 --> 1:12:02.360 Not very long? They think I was with this guy 1:12:02.720 --> 1:12:08.240 Jorge who came to be known as Curious. It was 1:12:08.320 --> 1:12:10.800 my intern actually jam at the time. 1:12:10.880 --> 1:12:13.280 The album was Dope, So I like the Conservated one album? 1:12:13.720 --> 1:12:14.040 Did you. 1:12:15.640 --> 1:12:15.680 So? 1:12:16.880 --> 1:12:19.200 What did? What did you and George say when he. 1:12:19.240 --> 1:12:21.439 Said it was bananas and he threw it in the trash. 1:12:28.560 --> 1:12:32.400 One of the themes that always comes up during quest 1:12:32.439 --> 1:12:39.120 Love Supreme is the idea of your heart, uh having 1:12:39.280 --> 1:12:43.640 good tastes good or bad, versus your brain, which is 1:12:44.280 --> 1:12:46.599 is this effective or non effective? 1:12:47.280 --> 1:12:47.400 Now? 1:12:47.520 --> 1:12:51.280 As an employee, are you not thinking I have to 1:12:51.360 --> 1:12:57.759 pick some winners for us to sell versus you wanting 1:12:57.920 --> 1:13:01.880 just to have this pedigree of great work to be 1:13:02.040 --> 1:13:02.799 on this label. 1:13:03.520 --> 1:13:07.439 So was there pressure to I was a pedigree person. 1:13:07.560 --> 1:13:10.120 I couldn't help it. And as and as the label 1:13:10.240 --> 1:13:17.799 kind of became, you know, distorted by the next you know, decade, 1:13:18.000 --> 1:13:21.960 decade or the next or that that difficult transition period 1:13:22.360 --> 1:13:28.000 you know, in ninety one, it definitely affected me. I 1:13:28.080 --> 1:13:31.080 felt like you know that, I felt that the brand 1:13:31.200 --> 1:13:37.080 had been really compromised. Yes, forever, I mean it came back, 1:13:37.600 --> 1:13:41.160 but at that time it was. It was the reason 1:13:41.240 --> 1:13:41.639 I left. 1:13:41.960 --> 1:13:44.040 Was there a moment when you're like, oh, this is it, 1:13:44.840 --> 1:13:45.280 I'm done? 1:13:45.760 --> 1:13:48.120 The Don? In there? 1:13:49.200 --> 1:13:51.720 Does anyone remember the Don? I did not remember the 1:13:51.840 --> 1:13:55.479 Dies none, not god father Don. It was he had 1:13:55.479 --> 1:13:58.479 a song called in there? All right? How did the dying? 1:13:59.240 --> 1:14:05.120 Was thee with Ted NuGen on jam? What wasn't deaf Jam? 1:14:05.200 --> 1:14:08.320 It became r A L labels? 1:14:09.360 --> 1:14:09.960 Am I am? 1:14:10.000 --> 1:14:13.920 I to assume that the reason for the Dons being 1:14:14.240 --> 1:14:18.120 was to get some tone, look money or yeah, because 1:14:18.240 --> 1:14:22.120 in there sounded like at least Funky's cousin. 1:14:22.760 --> 1:14:26.439 Yeah, I saw it a lot on like video hot track. Yeah, 1:14:27.560 --> 1:14:30.439 especially the box. Yes, that's it's not like col Cisco, 1:14:34.000 --> 1:14:34.479 no bro. 1:14:35.080 --> 1:14:36.960 So who signed the dome or. 1:14:39.640 --> 1:14:44.680 Oh my god, totally totally totally forgot to ask you. 1:14:46.000 --> 1:14:47.680 I forgot Leo worked. 1:14:47.479 --> 1:14:51.240 At de Jab, he worked at Rush. We hadn't gotten 1:14:51.280 --> 1:14:52.960 to him yet, right like we're just getting. 1:14:54.320 --> 1:14:57.200 Rush, Yeah, And he just didn't have anything to do 1:14:57.280 --> 1:15:01.960 with the label side until he did so until he did. 1:15:02.360 --> 1:15:02.680 What are you. 1:15:06.320 --> 1:15:10.600 I met older le or nicer to me leor I 1:15:10.680 --> 1:15:13.000 don't have a leor imitation to give you le or. 1:15:14.040 --> 1:15:15.160 We've heard imitation. 1:15:15.240 --> 1:15:16.759 So he was a different person then. 1:15:17.920 --> 1:15:22.160 So I could say it wasn't a pleasant experience. Correct 1:15:23.120 --> 1:15:24.120 in hindsight? 1:15:24.240 --> 1:15:26.639 Do you feel as though he was an effective person 1:15:26.720 --> 1:15:31.559 to work for? Being as though the heights that def 1:15:31.720 --> 1:15:33.320 Jam was later going to? 1:15:33.560 --> 1:15:36.640 Do you think def Jam would have naturally gone to 1:15:36.720 --> 1:15:42.479 the Heights jay z d m X without someone No. 1:15:42.840 --> 1:15:45.360 I credit him. I'm just saying there was at the Helm, 1:15:45.479 --> 1:15:47.960 there was a period in time where it just it 1:15:48.080 --> 1:15:51.120 was really rocky and I had been there almost five 1:15:51.240 --> 1:15:53.040 years at that point, and it was time for me 1:15:53.120 --> 1:15:53.280 to go. 1:15:54.080 --> 1:15:56.000 Okay, where did you guys say away? 1:15:56.479 --> 1:16:00.160 What did you guys disagree as far because obviously your 1:16:00.240 --> 1:16:01.720 exit had to be at a disagreement. 1:16:02.840 --> 1:16:04.760 It was it was, it was. It was one of 1:16:04.840 --> 1:16:08.800 those things where I had been. I was the liaison 1:16:08.920 --> 1:16:10.800 between Deaf Jam and Columbia. So it was always up 1:16:10.840 --> 1:16:14.400 there anyway, went to their A and R meetings, went 1:16:14.439 --> 1:16:16.360 to their you know, retreats that they. 1:16:16.360 --> 1:16:19.080 Had, and so when those guys didn't feel like so 1:16:19.280 --> 1:16:21.960 I was, I was the persons. 1:16:22.080 --> 1:16:24.240 I was a Deaf Jam person at Columbia. 1:16:24.200 --> 1:16:27.559 Kind of like okay, so you know, like comedians always 1:16:27.640 --> 1:16:31.040 joke Black comedians will joke like have one white friend 1:16:31.080 --> 1:16:33.439 on standby because somebody's going to have to talk to 1:16:33.520 --> 1:16:34.040 the police. 1:16:34.479 --> 1:16:42.800 Right, So you were the I guess whisper yes, put 1:16:42.840 --> 1:16:43.720 a nice face on. 1:16:44.640 --> 1:16:47.320 All right, So you're the liaisons there and then where 1:16:47.439 --> 1:16:47.560 is it? 1:16:47.800 --> 1:16:51.320 And they always said to me, Donnie would say, if 1:16:51.360 --> 1:16:53.840 you ever want to make a change, you know, come 1:16:53.920 --> 1:16:54.639 work for us. 1:16:55.240 --> 1:16:56.000 Come to death Row. 1:16:56.640 --> 1:17:02.040 Yeah, and then uh, you with your executives throwing sandwiches 1:17:04.520 --> 1:17:08.960 all in the tools dancing, come to Columbia. 1:17:13.040 --> 1:17:14.720 Well that's exactly what you did. 1:17:15.439 --> 1:17:15.679 Yeah. 1:17:15.920 --> 1:17:18.040 So there that that broke the ca. 1:17:18.439 --> 1:17:20.839 What Leon and I had had an argument about something. 1:17:21.920 --> 1:17:24.840 He blamed my assistant for losing some ll cool J 1:17:26.520 --> 1:17:29.360 Master tapes or something that she didn't do. It wasn't 1:17:29.400 --> 1:17:32.160 her fault, he insisted I fire her. We had a 1:17:32.240 --> 1:17:34.560 back and forth and I just said I'm done with 1:17:34.680 --> 1:17:41.280 this and I was done. So Sony, Yeah, CBS and 1:17:41.560 --> 1:17:45.599 CBS building. When I first started, they had just done 1:17:45.600 --> 1:17:46.400 the deal with Sony. 1:17:46.640 --> 1:17:49.920 Okay, I keep on forgetting and call them CBS first. Yeah, 1:17:50.160 --> 1:17:51.599 the CBS still a thing now. 1:17:51.640 --> 1:17:54.080 Is it just records now? They got they divested of 1:17:54.160 --> 1:17:56.599 all their okay music. 1:17:57.320 --> 1:18:02.320 So you took Dony's device and went to death Row, came. 1:18:02.160 --> 1:18:04.599 On over, went to the dark side. 1:18:05.080 --> 1:18:05.840 Did you regret it? 1:18:06.520 --> 1:18:09.080 No, not at all. And I thought it was kind 1:18:09.080 --> 1:18:13.280 of interesting because you know, I had interned there, you know, 1:18:13.880 --> 1:18:16.640 years ago, as this intern trying to come up in the. 1:18:16.680 --> 1:18:18.720 World, and there I scourged from coming back, and. 1:18:18.720 --> 1:18:20.439 I was scourged from coming back, and I came back 1:18:20.479 --> 1:18:25.800 as an executive the last twenty five twenty five. 1:18:26.000 --> 1:18:29.040 You go faith to do it, You go here, that's it, 1:18:29.120 --> 1:18:34.240 That's that's it's rather tryumphant. Did you have the working 1:18:34.320 --> 1:18:41.840 girl theme from Carly Simon playing your looking at the 1:18:41.880 --> 1:18:42.800 skyline of New York? 1:18:42.880 --> 1:18:43.320 Exactly? 1:18:43.800 --> 1:18:47.320 My coffee month one of the you you signed a 1:18:47.360 --> 1:18:49.880 lot of acts, and one of the acts that I 1:18:50.120 --> 1:18:55.479 was shocked to find out that you signed A favorite 1:18:55.479 --> 1:19:00.400 of mine was Jamarqui. Uh what what? First of all, 1:19:00.400 --> 1:19:02.120 what was the first act that you did sign too? 1:19:02.439 --> 1:19:02.719 Nas? 1:19:03.880 --> 1:19:04.920 Even before Ja Maryland? 1:19:06.080 --> 1:19:08.679 It was around kind of around the same time. Actually, 1:19:08.960 --> 1:19:11.760 NAS was like the first act that I was two 1:19:11.800 --> 1:19:15.240 weeks into the job when I signed NABS and that 1:19:15.439 --> 1:19:18.679 was like in a October And in December I signed 1:19:18.720 --> 1:19:21.120 Jamiqui ninety one. 1:19:22.680 --> 1:19:26.000 Wow, it took three years for that to even What 1:19:26.200 --> 1:19:27.880 was it about Jamerqui that made you. 1:19:28.600 --> 1:19:30.519 Fly to London the week before Christmas? 1:19:31.000 --> 1:19:31.280 Damn? 1:19:31.760 --> 1:19:34.040 Yeah, it's a demo. 1:19:35.439 --> 1:19:35.600 You know. 1:19:35.640 --> 1:19:39.240 They were signed to Acid Jazz in the UK and uh, 1:19:40.280 --> 1:19:45.040 Kieran Hurley from Assid Jazz came to see me. He said, 1:19:45.040 --> 1:19:46.360 I just want you to listen to this. It was 1:19:46.360 --> 1:19:48.880 a demo, you know, cassette demo. One song when you're 1:19:48.880 --> 1:19:52.559 going to learn. Yes, I thought it was a woman singing. 1:19:52.680 --> 1:19:56.519 I couldn't you know exactly, you know who is she? 1:19:57.280 --> 1:19:57.320 She? 1:19:57.520 --> 1:19:59.880 It's a heat and he's white. 1:20:01.439 --> 1:20:03.000 And so so. 1:20:05.160 --> 1:20:05.560 That was it. 1:20:05.720 --> 1:20:07.479 It was the one song and I said, I gotta 1:20:07.520 --> 1:20:11.040 go and I gotta sign this guy. And that's really 1:20:11.120 --> 1:20:11.799 how it happened. 1:20:13.640 --> 1:20:18.479 And to you, like did you expect them to have 1:20:19.920 --> 1:20:22.560 visions of them blowing up in the States or was 1:20:22.600 --> 1:20:22.800 it just. 1:20:22.960 --> 1:20:24.800 I think I did. I mean, I was so into 1:20:24.880 --> 1:20:27.360 the music I thought for sure that it would it 1:20:27.439 --> 1:20:28.640 would translate. 1:20:33.720 --> 1:20:34.960 He got them, Jesus Christ. 1:20:35.160 --> 1:20:36.320 Not just not from here. 1:20:37.320 --> 1:20:41.920 He when we when the Roots toured and. 1:20:43.560 --> 1:20:49.200 You're in Italy and ninety five, I believe uh with Jameroqui, 1:20:50.120 --> 1:20:53.560 there's a drive from one city in Italy to the 1:20:53.640 --> 1:20:54.560 other side of it. 1:20:54.880 --> 1:21:02.040 It was like a fourteen hour trek. Jay actually. 1:21:03.320 --> 1:21:08.200 Purchased uh A Ferrari at the one city we were 1:21:08.240 --> 1:21:12.519 at and drove behind his tour bus the entire fourteen 1:21:12.560 --> 1:21:13.240 hour duration. 1:21:14.920 --> 1:21:17.880 That much off of that the album that one Virgil 1:21:17.880 --> 1:21:18.559 one that. 1:21:18.760 --> 1:21:19.519 He was huge. 1:21:20.439 --> 1:21:21.479 They were huge overseas. 1:21:21.800 --> 1:21:25.679 Wow, So right now that was like that was yeah, 1:21:26.000 --> 1:21:28.320 wowergency Planet Earth was the first one. 1:21:28.439 --> 1:21:30.160 So he's like a Craig David in that way, like 1:21:30.280 --> 1:21:32.679 we might not know, but he is really killing its. 1:21:33.880 --> 1:21:35.760 America was late and they never really got it. 1:21:37.479 --> 1:21:39.240 It's where like j America has like a one hit 1:21:39.360 --> 1:21:45.040 wonder in America. Yeah, Virginal that guy that slid, I'm 1:21:45.120 --> 1:21:46.200 like the guy with the hat. 1:21:46.760 --> 1:21:50.480 The hat I thought the space Cowboy was incredible. 1:21:51.800 --> 1:21:55.120 Absolutely shout out to BT for put me onto that video. 1:21:55.200 --> 1:21:59.960 Vibration well being as though they blew up in your 1:22:00.000 --> 1:22:04.000 Europe like we was, there was there a separate Uh. 1:22:05.800 --> 1:22:10.400 Would Columbia treat like different divisions different? 1:22:10.720 --> 1:22:12.800 I mean yeah that it was more in the in 1:22:12.840 --> 1:22:16.320 the hands of the International Department than I think they 1:22:16.400 --> 1:22:18.200 knew after the first album that it was a tough 1:22:18.280 --> 1:22:21.320 sell over here, so they didn't have it. They didn't 1:22:21.320 --> 1:22:23.439 have a radio record. That's what I kept hearing. There's 1:22:23.439 --> 1:22:26.040 no radio record, there's no radio record, there's no radio record. 1:22:26.520 --> 1:22:30.920 Well, shout out to my boy Fred at MTV, Fred Jordan, 1:22:32.640 --> 1:22:37.759 who that was the person that showed us the virtual 1:22:37.800 --> 1:22:38.679 Insanity video. 1:22:38.840 --> 1:22:42.320 But like, how did was that just a stroke of luck? 1:22:42.439 --> 1:22:42.479 That? 1:22:43.560 --> 1:22:43.800 Yeah? 1:22:44.040 --> 1:22:44.439 Well I was. 1:22:44.560 --> 1:22:47.479 I was gone from Colombia. 1:22:47.280 --> 1:22:53.840 Time, I see. So with NAS, what was it that 1:22:55.280 --> 1:22:58.200 told you to was it search or like what was 1:22:58.280 --> 1:22:59.800 the relationship? 1:23:01.040 --> 1:23:03.720 Well? I heard him on the main Source album like 1:23:04.439 --> 1:23:09.120 most people, and uh, and I like lost my mind. 1:23:09.200 --> 1:23:10.840 I said, I gotta find this kid. And I was 1:23:10.880 --> 1:23:12.640 already working. I was still working at Deaf Jam at 1:23:12.680 --> 1:23:17.880 the time, and so I asked Polly, you know a 1:23:17.960 --> 1:23:21.960 large professor, what's up with this kid Nasty Nas? You know, 1:23:22.160 --> 1:23:22.880 can I meet him? 1:23:23.520 --> 1:23:23.680 You know? 1:23:24.720 --> 1:23:27.960 And he was kind of pushing me on signing Acinelly 1:23:30.320 --> 1:23:36.000 and not Nas, you know. So so that was kind 1:23:36.040 --> 1:23:38.160 of like a tail end of my time at Deaf Jam. 1:23:38.800 --> 1:23:41.080 I took a month off before I started at Columbia, 1:23:41.640 --> 1:23:43.920 and apparently in that time, from what Nas tells me, 1:23:44.080 --> 1:23:48.360 he went up to Deaf Jam with large professor to 1:23:49.240 --> 1:23:56.759 find me specifically, I was already gone, and so this happened. 1:23:56.760 --> 1:23:58.600 And then I, you know, I was at Columbia, was 1:23:58.600 --> 1:24:03.560 two weeks in and Search came to my office and 1:24:04.560 --> 1:24:06.880 because he knew that I was trying to find now 1:24:06.920 --> 1:24:08.960 I was wanted this kid, and he said, I have 1:24:09.120 --> 1:24:17.040 his demo and played it for me two songs, and 1:24:17.800 --> 1:24:20.000 I went down the hall to the head of the 1:24:20.080 --> 1:24:22.519 ANR department, said, you know, you have to let me 1:24:22.600 --> 1:24:24.840 sign this kid. You don't have to let me sign 1:24:24.880 --> 1:24:26.840 anything else the entire time I'm here. You have to 1:24:26.920 --> 1:24:27.800 let me sign this kid. 1:24:28.600 --> 1:24:33.400 Was it that hard of a sell though, Yeah, to the. 1:24:34.000 --> 1:24:37.200 Corporate people that Columbia. 1:24:36.800 --> 1:24:40.320 I mean it was Columbia didn't really have much of 1:24:40.360 --> 1:24:41.200 a hip hop department. 1:24:41.760 --> 1:24:43.000 That was why they hired me. 1:24:43.640 --> 1:24:47.639 See Music Vietnam Freedom William solo album. 1:24:47.840 --> 1:24:48.080 Yeah. 1:24:48.640 --> 1:24:51.360 Yeah, So you're saying that it was a hard cell 1:24:52.120 --> 1:24:54.000 to even get NAS. 1:24:55.400 --> 1:24:58.720 Yeah, Well but it wasn't. It wasn't because part of 1:24:58.720 --> 1:25:00.760 the reason they hired me was they wanted their own 1:25:00.840 --> 1:25:06.000 rap division because they had def Jam, they had So 1:25:06.160 --> 1:25:08.720 So Deaf, but they didn't want that. They wanted all 1:25:09.200 --> 1:25:11.680 they wanted to have their own. They didn't want to 1:25:11.720 --> 1:25:13.160 they didn't want to share with anybody. 1:25:13.320 --> 1:25:19.400 But as as as wait, so is Michael was he 1:25:19.479 --> 1:25:20.080 there at that point? 1:25:20.200 --> 1:25:20.559 Not yet? 1:25:21.000 --> 1:25:27.960 So okay, I would think that as a label, having uh, 1:25:28.240 --> 1:25:32.280 these sub labels would satisfy that itch. 1:25:32.479 --> 1:25:37.599 So if you're Donnie and your your your Tommy, uh, 1:25:39.280 --> 1:25:41.439 I would just think, like, oh, matter of fact, was 1:25:41.520 --> 1:25:44.200 it NAS initially on rough House or is that. 1:25:44.280 --> 1:25:51.320 Just having this moment of oh no, nobody's going to 1:25:51.400 --> 1:25:54.000 know what to do with this record. Let's just put 1:25:54.040 --> 1:25:55.920 it out on rough House. At least we'll get, you know, 1:25:56.000 --> 1:25:58.240 the right marketing people and the right promotion people, because 1:25:58.840 --> 1:26:00.800 they wanted me to have this divis, but I didn't 1:26:00.840 --> 1:26:03.559 have There wasn't really anybody in the house right yet, 1:26:03.800 --> 1:26:05.960 no staff, no right so I said, let's put it 1:26:06.040 --> 1:26:06.840 out through rough House. 1:26:07.640 --> 1:26:10.559 What did you imagine or hope for with this record? 1:26:10.840 --> 1:26:15.160 Because for Yeah, I think the idea of Illmatic and 1:26:15.600 --> 1:26:19.840 even the process of it became bigger than. 1:26:20.880 --> 1:26:23.320 Yeah the more as time went on. It's like it, 1:26:25.040 --> 1:26:27.320 you know, came just like these mythic proportions. 1:26:27.800 --> 1:26:29.040 Well what I didn't know. 1:26:29.200 --> 1:26:33.760 The thing that makes Illmatic so special, or at least 1:26:33.800 --> 1:26:36.320 what made it such a game changer that people rarely 1:26:36.439 --> 1:26:39.800 discuss is the fact that this will mark the first 1:26:39.920 --> 1:26:46.679 time that multiple producers will handle a hip hop album. 1:26:46.920 --> 1:26:53.080 Whereas the status quo was like one producer sees the 1:26:53.200 --> 1:26:58.280 whole project through. Did his idea seem as radical to 1:26:58.400 --> 1:27:02.080 you at the time to not let one person produce 1:27:02.120 --> 1:27:02.840 the entire record? 1:27:03.040 --> 1:27:07.320 No, it felt really natural actually, but it's never happened before, right. 1:27:08.560 --> 1:27:11.559 It just because all of these people wanted to work 1:27:11.600 --> 1:27:14.519 with him, So it only made sense that everybody who 1:27:14.560 --> 1:27:16.680 wanted to work with him, all these great producers got 1:27:16.720 --> 1:27:19.160 an opportunity to be a part of the project. 1:27:22.000 --> 1:27:25.559 Who was lining up Because first of all, it's ten 1:27:25.680 --> 1:27:27.519 songs on the record, really nine. 1:27:27.720 --> 1:27:29.960 Poten it was supposed to be twelve. 1:27:30.200 --> 1:27:32.960 Yeah, I was going to say, like who got rejected. 1:27:33.720 --> 1:27:38.519 It's not a question of rejected. The album was so 1:27:38.680 --> 1:27:44.800 heavily bootlegged and so ubiquitous everywhere, I mean overseas. I 1:27:44.880 --> 1:27:47.479 mean everybody had a copy of that album that we 1:27:47.600 --> 1:27:50.280 had to rush it out before it was ready, and 1:27:50.360 --> 1:27:51.799 that's why there's only nine songs. 1:27:53.000 --> 1:27:56.439 Really, So you just I see, yeah, I read you 1:27:56.520 --> 1:27:59.760 said they were cutting more records as the joint came out, 1:28:00.200 --> 1:28:01.000 working on most stuff. 1:28:01.160 --> 1:28:04.720 Yep, it just wasn't enough time. There would have been 1:28:04.760 --> 1:28:06.120 another premier cut for sure. 1:28:07.800 --> 1:28:09.479 So in a perfect world, you would have made it 1:28:09.640 --> 1:28:13.200 a traditional hip hop record of the time, which in 1:28:13.400 --> 1:28:16.160 ninety four, I mean hip hop records were still like 1:28:16.320 --> 1:28:18.120 sixteen to eighteen songs. 1:28:19.000 --> 1:28:20.960 Were getting with skits and all that shit. 1:28:21.240 --> 1:28:21.439 Yeah. 1:28:22.320 --> 1:28:27.240 Well, yeah, who's the first, We'll say, Public Enemy was. 1:28:27.960 --> 1:28:31.120 I think Nation Millions was the first single record. 1:28:30.920 --> 1:28:36.240 That had like double album status. 1:28:36.560 --> 1:28:39.160 Well definitely one of the first album with interludes on it, 1:28:39.320 --> 1:28:43.360 so yeah, with sixteen songs on it. So that's the 1:28:43.439 --> 1:28:45.800 thing that struck me about this record, that it was 1:28:47.720 --> 1:28:51.599 that made it different to me, because like most classic records, 1:28:51.800 --> 1:28:55.679 in the mind of the music consumer, like Stevie Wonders 1:28:55.720 --> 1:28:58.360 in a Visions or thriller or whatever, like all those 1:28:58.400 --> 1:29:02.320 albums clock in at thirty to thirty three minutes and 1:29:02.439 --> 1:29:03.080 then you're out. 1:29:03.200 --> 1:29:05.760 So you know you were fine with that, just. 1:29:05.960 --> 1:29:07.120 We were perfect? Yeah? 1:29:08.120 --> 1:29:08.840 Was he fine with that? 1:29:09.320 --> 1:29:13.840 Yeah? I think he wanted it done and out too, Okay, So. 1:29:15.320 --> 1:29:16.280 I mean was it smooth? 1:29:16.400 --> 1:29:16.439 Like? 1:29:16.520 --> 1:29:18.040 Why did it take two years to make? 1:29:18.120 --> 1:29:24.719 And he just well he had his friend? 1:29:25.080 --> 1:29:26.760 Was it an easy record to make? That's what it was. 1:29:27.040 --> 1:29:28.000 No, it was a. 1:29:28.000 --> 1:29:32.320 Difficult record to make. How well he had his friend 1:29:32.400 --> 1:29:37.080 pass away, so that you know, that was tough. And 1:29:37.280 --> 1:29:41.799 then he just wasn't Sometimes he showed up to the studio, 1:29:41.920 --> 1:29:43.880 and sometimes you didn't show up to the studio. You 1:29:43.960 --> 1:29:45.320 kind of never knew what you were going to get. 1:29:46.000 --> 1:29:51.280 Sometimes he was feeling it and he'd write, and sometimes 1:29:51.320 --> 1:29:53.599 he wasn't feeling it and he'd go home or wherever. 1:29:54.880 --> 1:29:57.879 It's just it was just long, long, long process. 1:29:59.520 --> 1:30:03.280 Who who Who was the person that had the choke 1:30:03.360 --> 1:30:07.920 hold of I mean, I know, like with having worked 1:30:07.960 --> 1:30:11.360 with mcs, like you can't if you force them, you 1:30:11.360 --> 1:30:15.639 will traumatize them into permanent writer's block. So this could 1:30:15.680 --> 1:30:18.080 have easily been a j Electronica situation. 1:30:19.000 --> 1:30:20.120 It could have been easily. 1:30:21.120 --> 1:30:25.160 So how are you like, who's the designated person that 1:30:25.280 --> 1:30:27.760 was there to kind of take them out of that? 1:30:31.640 --> 1:30:33.240 You know, I don't know. I think we kind of 1:30:33.400 --> 1:30:36.800 eat with Search and me and you know, obviously the 1:30:36.840 --> 1:30:38.360 people at the label who didn't know what was going 1:30:38.400 --> 1:30:40.760 on and until they told me to drop him, which 1:30:40.800 --> 1:30:48.120 happened twice. Yeah, two years. Yeah, Yeah, I was wondering 1:30:48.240 --> 1:30:51.400 how she could hold on. It was, uh, well, one 1:30:51.600 --> 1:30:53.680 was because of a gun thing that. 1:30:55.840 --> 1:30:57.479 Did they know that that was just going to be 1:30:58.479 --> 1:31:02.759 you know as a rappers and gun, Yeah that's standard. 1:31:02.840 --> 1:31:07.040 Yeah, at the time, it wasn't so standard. And they 1:31:07.120 --> 1:31:09.360 wanted me to do They wanted to drop him, and 1:31:10.920 --> 1:31:12.880 I had to make the case fight for him. 1:31:12.960 --> 1:31:19.559 And yeah, because him in Jungle or so opposite too, 1:31:19.560 --> 1:31:21.560 because I always wondered, like was he always on the 1:31:21.640 --> 1:31:23.280 edge of situation because of his brother. 1:31:23.240 --> 1:31:25.479 Jungle was the one with the gun. So there you go. 1:31:27.840 --> 1:31:33.400 Which is a funny story actually because they had a show. 1:31:33.520 --> 1:31:35.120 His first show in New York was at a club 1:31:35.160 --> 1:31:38.280 called Mewse and we sent a car service to pick 1:31:38.360 --> 1:31:48.080 them up in Queensbridge. It doesn't end well and uh, 1:31:48.280 --> 1:31:50.519 Jungle had a gun on him. You know, this is 1:31:50.600 --> 1:31:53.720 after the thing with with Will had happened. And you know, 1:31:54.200 --> 1:31:58.400 and Uh, I always thought up until Rock the Bells 1:31:58.560 --> 1:32:01.679 three years ago, that the gun fell out of his pocket. 1:32:02.960 --> 1:32:06.000 But Jungle told me what had happened was he asked 1:32:06.040 --> 1:32:08.000 the driver to hold it for him while they were 1:32:08.040 --> 1:32:12.120 in the club. Okay, so the driver took it to 1:32:12.200 --> 1:32:12.719 the police. 1:32:13.360 --> 1:32:24.760 Oh man, yeah, snitching ass. I just want you to 1:32:24.840 --> 1:32:26.800 hold his cocaine while I did my set. That's all 1:32:26.880 --> 1:32:36.720 I did. So when the show's over. 1:32:37.120 --> 1:32:40.000 So the show's over, no car, no gun, Jungle starts 1:32:40.040 --> 1:32:49.439 calling the car company and threatening their lives. And Jungle, 1:32:50.840 --> 1:32:53.840 oh Jungle, Jabari. 1:32:57.280 --> 1:33:00.519 Did you as as someone from North Carolina or you 1:33:00.680 --> 1:33:02.439 Bill and someone from Indiana? 1:33:02.520 --> 1:33:06.080 Did you have nas expectations? None? Because I'll be honest 1:33:06.120 --> 1:33:07.599 with you, Nas. 1:33:07.840 --> 1:33:10.400 Yes, I remember I went to Hell for at the 1:33:10.439 --> 1:33:12.720 age of twelve, went to Hell for Jesus Fort and 1:33:12.800 --> 1:33:13.960 Jesus I remember the line. 1:33:14.680 --> 1:33:20.519 But I never had a yo. I cannot wait for 1:33:20.680 --> 1:33:21.200 that move. 1:33:21.280 --> 1:33:24.320 Like even after halftime, halftime, I. 1:33:24.560 --> 1:33:26.160 Never liked that. I didn't like halftime. 1:33:26.320 --> 1:33:29.600 I worked at rough House, Oh okay, I worked at 1:33:29.680 --> 1:33:32.880 rough House, and I was just like, it's cool. 1:33:33.240 --> 1:33:33.439 Yeah. 1:33:33.520 --> 1:33:37.439 I didn't really get NAS until it ain't hard to tell. 1:33:37.880 --> 1:33:40.280 When I heard that, I was like, Okay, this is dope, but. 1:33:41.960 --> 1:33:43.640 It was humang. Even then I was like, Okay, this 1:33:43.800 --> 1:33:44.200 is clever. 1:33:44.760 --> 1:33:47.040 But then but when I saw that, when I saw 1:33:47.120 --> 1:33:49.040 that Gang Star issue of the Source and saw that 1:33:49.120 --> 1:33:53.439 it got five mics, then I was like, holy shit, 1:33:54.080 --> 1:33:55.840 and like We're in the middle of making do you 1:33:55.880 --> 1:33:59.200 want more? And I'm reading this five mic review, man, 1:33:59.320 --> 1:34:02.680 and I'm just like like, oh God, like. 1:34:04.400 --> 1:34:05.200 There's I don't know. 1:34:05.320 --> 1:34:08.200 I just I read the review first, even before I 1:34:08.280 --> 1:34:12.760 heard the records, and by that point, anything that the 1:34:12.840 --> 1:34:17.240 source could have told me be incredible or not credible, 1:34:17.360 --> 1:34:20.280 that was you held it as in, you know, And 1:34:20.360 --> 1:34:22.760 I just felt like the way they worded it was 1:34:22.840 --> 1:34:25.920 like this is the new standard of the gold standard 1:34:26.040 --> 1:34:29.120 or whatever. And I just felt like, yo, I got 1:34:29.160 --> 1:34:32.320 to the train platform too late, and this is now, 1:34:32.920 --> 1:34:34.280 this is the new standard. 1:34:34.000 --> 1:34:35.040 Whatever this album is. 1:34:35.320 --> 1:34:39.120 And so I think Tariq was like, yeah, you know, 1:34:39.160 --> 1:34:41.000 I got to copy that tape and then he went 1:34:41.000 --> 1:34:42.000 in his bag and had like. 1:34:44.800 --> 1:34:50.760 And and played it, and I was just confused, like 1:34:51.479 --> 1:34:54.879 I was told Illmatic is classic. 1:34:55.880 --> 1:34:58.040 You never got to make it a classic on your own, 1:34:58.240 --> 1:35:00.320 like it never you never got to do it on 1:35:00.400 --> 1:35:01.599 your on your own merits. 1:35:02.800 --> 1:35:06.360 It was just told to you. Like the Chronic again, 1:35:06.760 --> 1:35:09.120 I was told it was classic. Now I see the 1:35:09.200 --> 1:35:10.280 Chronic was different for me. 1:35:11.400 --> 1:35:13.920 Was different because I got in on the Chronic early, 1:35:14.200 --> 1:35:17.280 Like I saw the g Thing video and was just like, whatever, 1:35:17.880 --> 1:35:20.640 it's cool. And but then I saw the covers like 1:35:20.720 --> 1:35:22.880 Doctor Dre the Chronic. I was like, Drake got an album, 1:35:22.960 --> 1:35:25.639 I'll buy it. And the Chronic was a slow burn 1:35:25.840 --> 1:35:28.240 like it was. I hated it when I bought it 1:35:28.240 --> 1:35:29.880 and I listened to it and I was like, all right, 1:35:29.920 --> 1:35:31.240 this is cool. And then I remember a couple of 1:35:31.280 --> 1:35:34.400 months later that ship was fucking everywhere, ready to die. 1:35:34.520 --> 1:35:35.360 Was like that for me, too. 1:35:35.720 --> 1:35:38.680 Ready to do I loved. I was like, all right, 1:35:38.720 --> 1:35:40.639 this is dope. And then it wasn't till the next 1:35:40.640 --> 1:35:42.519 time and then they were told you were told it 1:35:42.600 --> 1:35:45.200 was classic, but it became. But I got a chance 1:35:45.280 --> 1:35:47.280 to view it for myself, I think, but it was matic. 1:35:48.000 --> 1:35:50.640 I didn't really because like you, like, I remember this 1:35:50.840 --> 1:35:52.439 when the review came out, and. 1:35:53.000 --> 1:35:54.880 Like I said, I wasn't big on halftime. It ain't 1:35:54.920 --> 1:35:55.360 hard to tell. 1:35:55.439 --> 1:35:58.800 I liked and then I saw the review and I 1:35:58.880 --> 1:36:01.880 was like, damn, like he got like that was and 1:36:02.040 --> 1:36:04.640 the source and that sound like that was vible. 1:36:04.400 --> 1:36:08.200 And I didn't even think like, oh, that's political or favor. Yeah, 1:36:08.240 --> 1:36:09.920 it wasn't that. It wasn't that start man. 1:36:10.080 --> 1:36:12.280 And so then the record came out and I remember 1:36:12.360 --> 1:36:15.479 getting it and one of the things that really struck 1:36:15.560 --> 1:36:17.600 me about it was, you know, I maybe it was 1:36:17.720 --> 1:36:20.360 just you know, chance or divine to mention whatever. It 1:36:20.479 --> 1:36:23.880 was only ten songs, which was unheard of for a 1:36:24.000 --> 1:36:26.240 hip hop record, and so for me, I went to 1:36:26.320 --> 1:36:29.160 the mindset, I'm like, yo, if this motherfucker got balls 1:36:29.280 --> 1:36:31.880 enough to just do ten songs, like, to me, that 1:36:32.040 --> 1:36:33.920 in itself was a statement, like for you to just 1:36:34.000 --> 1:36:37.040 say fuck all these skits and shout out to this 1:36:37.200 --> 1:36:39.080 dude that ten songs, fuck it, this is what it 1:36:39.240 --> 1:36:43.000 is like that to me was like, Okay, he got 1:36:43.080 --> 1:36:46.439 some shit. And so then I listened to it, and yeah, 1:36:46.600 --> 1:36:47.360 I was like all right. 1:36:47.640 --> 1:36:49.360 Yeah, I've never and I want to go on the record. 1:36:49.400 --> 1:36:52.439 I never like dispute it if it was a classic 1:36:52.560 --> 1:36:55.200 or not. But it's just the way that it was. 1:36:57.160 --> 1:36:59.720 I wasn't expecting it that and that was my whole point, 1:36:59.840 --> 1:37:03.120 Like I didn't have any absolutely right. 1:37:03.160 --> 1:37:04.000 I just woke up one. 1:37:03.960 --> 1:37:08.160 Day saw the Gang Star issue and thought, okay, let 1:37:08.200 --> 1:37:09.320 me see what they reviewed. 1:37:09.439 --> 1:37:11.920 Did the Columbia people, did they know the like the 1:37:12.040 --> 1:37:14.120 gravity of what five mics menu at the time? Did 1:37:14.160 --> 1:37:14.560 they get that? 1:37:14.760 --> 1:37:15.400 Yeah? They got that? 1:37:15.760 --> 1:37:19.560 Oh wow, Okay, did that change anything in terms of 1:37:19.600 --> 1:37:21.559 how he was treated at the label or like more 1:37:21.640 --> 1:37:22.880 marketing dollars to him anything? 1:37:23.040 --> 1:37:23.280 Yeah? 1:37:23.439 --> 1:37:26.040 It did, it did. It's still only you know we 1:37:26.840 --> 1:37:31.080 the album was so bootlegged. We came out sold what 1:37:31.400 --> 1:37:35.800 seventy thousand first week back then? That's no, yeah, first 1:37:35.880 --> 1:37:38.240 week it was something. 1:37:38.560 --> 1:37:40.439 No, I mean we didn't sell shit. 1:37:40.360 --> 1:37:44.559 And we did like we we said, you had already 1:37:44.560 --> 1:37:46.320 had the bootleg copy of the NAS record and that 1:37:46.439 --> 1:37:48.840 was probably half the problem everybody had had. 1:37:49.200 --> 1:37:50.160 But we brought it again. 1:37:50.680 --> 1:37:56.840 I mean, okay, you did you like Money from the Sky. 1:37:57.160 --> 1:37:59.720 I'm just saying like you did, but not a lot 1:37:59.760 --> 1:38:02.800 of people, Like I got a full of taste that 1:38:02.840 --> 1:38:04.519 I dubbed off of people that I still haven't bought 1:38:04.560 --> 1:38:06.040 through it. But I feel like eighty thousand in the 1:38:06.080 --> 1:38:08.480 first week is like twenty. 1:38:08.240 --> 1:38:12.680 Sixteen numbers you got to in twenty sixteen US and 1:38:12.840 --> 1:38:14.880 NAS did eighty thousand in his first week. 1:38:15.400 --> 1:38:18.400 He would instantly got dropped from Columbia. I felt like 1:38:18.800 --> 1:38:20.880 you at least had to do one hundred thousand something. 1:38:21.280 --> 1:38:28.200 You're saying seventy wow, what was it? Oh? It matter? 1:38:28.200 --> 1:38:30.280 At least April nineteen ninety four has seen an eight 1:38:30.439 --> 1:38:33.920 hundred and forty four percent increasing sales. In nineteen ninety four, 1:38:34.360 --> 1:38:37.160 the album sold fourteen thousand, nine hundred and eighty seven 1:38:37.200 --> 1:38:38.280 copies during this first week. 1:38:39.439 --> 1:38:43.280 Oh I'm all right. 1:38:44.840 --> 1:38:47.200 As of today, OMDIC has sold one point six million, 1:38:47.439 --> 1:38:48.439 fourteen thousand. 1:38:48.800 --> 1:38:51.960 Thank you Jesus Christ. Well, I thought it was more 1:38:52.000 --> 1:38:53.800 than that. That was under your projections. 1:38:54.320 --> 1:38:57.880 Shit, that was that was my that's me right there. 1:38:58.640 --> 1:39:00.599 Okay, so first week, what are you saying. 1:39:00.720 --> 1:39:03.240 Let's put it in a ninety four context, at least 1:39:03.439 --> 1:39:05.240 to my knowledge and correct me if I'm wrong. 1:39:05.280 --> 1:39:07.960 In his faith first week numbers? Was that really a thing? 1:39:08.240 --> 1:39:09.960 Like it was like it became later on, like it 1:39:10.120 --> 1:39:12.320 wasn't just like your first week. 1:39:12.720 --> 1:39:15.000 No, it was a thing. Those were the days when 1:39:15.120 --> 1:39:17.720 you know, like Garth Brooks or whoever was doing like 1:39:17.800 --> 1:39:19.040 a million first week? 1:39:19.200 --> 1:39:22.760 Yeah, okay, gotcha, gotcha? Yeah, post sound Skin, Yeah, post 1:39:22.840 --> 1:39:28.760 nine after Life. You read that fourteen thousand, that's what 1:39:28.920 --> 1:39:31.719 it says, fourteen seven according to the internet. 1:39:31.880 --> 1:39:34.080 It must be true. That's from the story. 1:39:34.160 --> 1:39:36.160 I remember. That's not what I remember, but. 1:39:36.400 --> 1:39:38.200 That's from the story. Yeah, I mean, I mean it 1:39:38.320 --> 1:39:39.000 could be wrong. 1:39:39.040 --> 1:39:41.759 I mean, it's the great Winston Churchill said, never believe 1:39:41.800 --> 1:39:42.960 everything you read on the internet. 1:39:43.000 --> 1:39:43.120 Here. 1:39:52.400 --> 1:39:54.479 So were you at hip Hop's you know? 1:39:55.840 --> 1:39:55.920 Ju? 1:39:58.080 --> 1:39:58.880 Yes, I was there. 1:40:00.040 --> 1:40:01.240 What section were you sitting in? 1:40:01.360 --> 1:40:03.679 Were you on down the middle? 1:40:04.400 --> 1:40:06.000 Oh, you're in the middle on the on. 1:40:06.040 --> 1:40:10.880 The west coast side. The middle road was all west 1:40:10.920 --> 1:40:11.840 coast and down south. 1:40:12.200 --> 1:40:15.680 Then I was if you're facing the stage the far left, 1:40:15.760 --> 1:40:19.479 I'm facing the stage then I'm on the left, all right, So. 1:40:19.640 --> 1:40:25.080 The the the the halves, the uh winning New York side. 1:40:26.680 --> 1:40:30.679 Nas is sitting three rows ahead of me on the far. 1:40:32.000 --> 1:40:38.080 Right side. And I watched his whole body language, that 1:40:38.720 --> 1:40:41.920 his whole body language that night, the transition from nasty 1:40:42.000 --> 1:40:46.360 Nascar dog. I watched he came in. 1:40:46.520 --> 1:40:51.280 And it's weird because only maybe two years ago either 1:40:51.479 --> 1:40:55.360 him or Stout told of the story of that Tommy 1:40:55.439 --> 1:40:57.040 Hill figure shirt that Nas had on. 1:40:58.080 --> 1:40:59.240 That was the first oddest thing. 1:40:59.320 --> 1:41:01.960 First of all, it was like, well, there's like the 1:41:02.000 --> 1:41:06.320 fashionista of the roots, so he knew that was the 1:41:06.400 --> 1:41:08.760 out of season He'll figure shirt for some reason, like 1:41:10.360 --> 1:41:13.000 not like he said like, oh that that's not off 1:41:13.080 --> 1:41:15.320 the wreck, but when you go to the outlet store, 1:41:15.400 --> 1:41:19.280 like yeah, it's outlet last season. But the shirt was 1:41:19.360 --> 1:41:22.080 way too big for Nas. It was like he was 1:41:22.160 --> 1:41:24.960 wearing an imagine like your son wearing. 1:41:25.320 --> 1:41:27.920 Wearing one of my double right. 1:41:27.960 --> 1:41:31.400 It was just a very unusual looking Tommy Hill figure shirt. 1:41:31.600 --> 1:41:36.160 And he came in kind of really you know, proud everything. 1:41:36.200 --> 1:41:38.320 It was the top of the show and you know, 1:41:38.479 --> 1:41:42.160 all the drama, the heat was on Diddy, which shook 1:41:42.200 --> 1:41:44.320 Knight and the whole you know, come to death row 1:41:44.400 --> 1:41:48.680 and all in the video all that stuff, and you know, 1:41:49.160 --> 1:41:54.720 bit by bit, Big kept winning all of the awards 1:41:55.040 --> 1:41:59.200 and like by the time the third by the time 1:41:59.280 --> 1:42:02.559 the third nomination was, which I guess was like Lyricists 1:42:02.600 --> 1:42:08.240 of the Year or whatever. Yo, his body language just 1:42:08.320 --> 1:42:13.120 like he curled up in the most depressed sitting. 1:42:12.920 --> 1:42:18.120 Light bass bell right now. Yeah, it was purpose. It 1:42:18.200 --> 1:42:21.360 was a slouch. I'll never forget watch. And I looked 1:42:21.439 --> 1:42:23.200 and me and Ree looked at each other like, yo, 1:42:23.360 --> 1:42:27.640 he's never going to be the same again. Like and 1:42:28.720 --> 1:42:29.320 he wasn't. 1:42:30.200 --> 1:42:34.160 And he admitted that that night affected him. Like did 1:42:34.200 --> 1:42:36.320 that affect you or did at that time? Did you 1:42:36.439 --> 1:42:38.320 just think, ah, whatever, it's the source? 1:42:39.280 --> 1:42:39.320 No. 1:42:39.560 --> 1:42:42.280 I thought everything changed for hip hop that night. Everything 1:42:43.920 --> 1:42:47.720 scare the shit out of me. Yeah, I like it, 1:42:47.800 --> 1:42:50.680 felt it got it took a turn like towards each 1:42:51.200 --> 1:42:54.920 looked towards the dark, Yeah, the dark side, and and 1:42:55.080 --> 1:42:57.160 you just knew it was going to end badly for 1:42:57.240 --> 1:43:00.000 a lot of people. I felt that very much. 1:43:01.600 --> 1:43:04.080 So were you around for it was written or did 1:43:04.120 --> 1:43:04.519 you leave? 1:43:04.880 --> 1:43:11.720 I left for Jive. I had disagreements with Nas and 1:43:11.840 --> 1:43:13.840 with Stout over the direction of the album. 1:43:14.080 --> 1:43:15.640 So were you there at least for the beginning of 1:43:15.880 --> 1:43:18.720 it was written? So in your mind it was like, 1:43:19.040 --> 1:43:20.439 let's keep our eyes on the fries. 1:43:20.560 --> 1:43:24.000 And I told Nas, I remember saying this to him, 1:43:24.080 --> 1:43:27.400 you know, if you keep doing exactly what you're doing 1:43:27.600 --> 1:43:30.920 ten years, you're going to be, you know, legendary. I 1:43:30.920 --> 1:43:33.320 remember ten years feeling like a lot of time back then, 1:43:33.560 --> 1:43:36.280 and you know, just be true to yourself, Just be 1:43:36.360 --> 1:43:37.080 true to yourself. 1:43:37.320 --> 1:43:39.800 And but he was, He's like, I want it now, 1:43:40.000 --> 1:43:43.360 he's going on. What was your conversation with him after 1:43:43.400 --> 1:43:44.360 the source of wards. 1:43:46.600 --> 1:43:51.599 That conversation? So what was he feeling that he had 1:43:51.680 --> 1:43:58.920 been cheated somehow, that he had been overlooked, that he 1:43:59.040 --> 1:44:01.880 made this incredible piece of art and people are giving 1:44:01.960 --> 1:44:03.360 him the credit that he deserved. 1:44:05.560 --> 1:44:07.360 Meanwhile, Biggie is Biggie. 1:44:07.520 --> 1:44:09.439 He mentioned Biggie, Biggie Biggie. 1:44:09.840 --> 1:44:20.840 Yeah, so its right. So how how early into the 1:44:21.160 --> 1:44:23.599 first or second quarter did you leave? It was written 1:44:24.640 --> 1:44:25.120 very early. 1:44:26.120 --> 1:44:32.679 So I left Columbia in say, October ninety six. 1:44:36.040 --> 1:44:41.000 Okay, what wait a minute, but it was out by then. 1:44:43.080 --> 1:44:45.120 I had removed myself from the process. 1:44:45.520 --> 1:44:45.800 I was. 1:44:47.600 --> 1:44:49.400 The label. It hurt my soul. 1:44:49.600 --> 1:44:51.600 Yeah, so. 1:44:53.280 --> 1:44:58.920 Okay again, but here's another, here's another he love situation. Now, 1:44:59.000 --> 1:45:01.840 whatever your feelings is about, if I ruled the. 1:45:01.840 --> 1:45:07.200 World, I wrote the chorus for for fucking Lauren Hill 1:45:07.360 --> 1:45:10.760 by the way, wow, or rather I told her what 1:45:10.960 --> 1:45:11.320 to say. 1:45:11.920 --> 1:45:13.200 You approved of that? 1:45:13.400 --> 1:45:15.880 At least I was up to that point, yes, And 1:45:15.960 --> 1:45:19.639 then it became again an untenable situation because of Stout 1:45:19.760 --> 1:45:27.120 and myself. So mmmm, okay, I couldn't, you know, do 1:45:27.400 --> 1:45:29.800 what Stout did for nos That just wasn't you know, 1:45:29.880 --> 1:45:31.360 it's not what I doot. 1:45:31.560 --> 1:45:33.080 He Stout ones trying to argue me. 1:45:33.760 --> 1:45:38.320 Stout came to like a voodoo session once we were 1:45:39.000 --> 1:45:40.720 thinking of getting nads on. 1:45:42.800 --> 1:45:46.880 No chicken grease, No, what were we calling it on? 1:45:50.000 --> 1:45:50.040 No? 1:45:51.439 --> 1:46:02.720 In my mind? In my mind, yo, son, will we all? Yeah? Nah, 1:46:02.800 --> 1:46:07.639 it makes no sense queens QB. No, it wasn't ghetto children. 1:46:07.880 --> 1:46:08.479 It was. 1:46:13.960 --> 1:46:16.200 Wait, stop naming songs. I can figure out the day, 1:46:17.080 --> 1:46:20.040 all right. So we did a joining based on uh 1:46:20.760 --> 1:46:24.320 lots of loving the Ohio players Westbound. Yeah, like it 1:46:24.400 --> 1:46:26.960 was something based off of that. And Stout came by 1:46:27.920 --> 1:46:32.200 and we happened to be talking about it was written, 1:46:32.479 --> 1:46:35.120 and I guess he just automatically assumed that we were 1:46:36.280 --> 1:46:39.120 all aboard for it because it was winning and it 1:46:39.240 --> 1:46:41.240 was doing exactly what Na's. 1:46:41.040 --> 1:46:45.000 Hope it would do as far as cells and winning, 1:46:45.880 --> 1:46:49.200 and me and D were kind of lukewarm to it, and. 1:46:51.360 --> 1:46:54.200 Stout had mentioned that, yeah, man, remember we was trying 1:46:54.200 --> 1:46:57.559 to get you for Little Black Girl loss and uh 1:46:59.160 --> 1:47:02.080 and I mean the mistake of ooh, I said, oh 1:47:02.200 --> 1:47:04.120 really like it was kind of like, oh, you guys 1:47:04.200 --> 1:47:05.160 a bullet on that one. 1:47:05.520 --> 1:47:10.320 Really really not knowing who or what Steve Stout represented. 1:47:10.400 --> 1:47:12.280 I just thought he was just a guy that was 1:47:12.360 --> 1:47:15.120 opinionated about hip hop and was just hanging around in 1:47:15.120 --> 1:47:15.519 the studio. 1:47:15.600 --> 1:47:18.479 I didn't know that was like NAS's guy. And I 1:47:18.640 --> 1:47:21.280 was like, oh, that's a Little Black Girl Lost on 1:47:21.439 --> 1:47:23.560 that one. You said, what you don't like that? 1:47:24.560 --> 1:47:28.280 I was like, oh god, no, like I hated Little 1:47:28.320 --> 1:47:32.719 Black Girl Lost or the narrative was cool, but again. 1:47:32.560 --> 1:47:34.960 It was just like it was an old Yeah, the 1:47:35.200 --> 1:47:38.599 Stephanie Mills loop was it was the track master's formula 1:47:38.680 --> 1:47:40.000 that I didn't like at the time. 1:47:40.080 --> 1:47:44.519 And just for me with the NAS stuff, particularly with 1:47:45.080 --> 1:47:47.320 that album too, it was wit and dropping on the 1:47:47.400 --> 1:47:50.679 same day as Stakes as High. It's just like, man, 1:47:50.840 --> 1:47:53.280 come like there was that was the first time you 1:47:53.360 --> 1:47:57.240 could really see like an A and B kind of choice, 1:47:57.400 --> 1:48:00.000 you know what I mean, Boss. 1:48:00.200 --> 1:48:05.360 It's just pitting it Daylight ninety six versus NAS in 1:48:05.439 --> 1:48:06.040 ninety six. 1:48:07.080 --> 1:48:08.800 Well, I wasn't pitting them against each other. 1:48:08.880 --> 1:48:10.760 I was just saying like, at that point that was 1:48:10.840 --> 1:48:14.200 when there came a clear like a path in terms 1:48:14.240 --> 1:48:16.840 of sounds. So it's like if you got into if 1:48:16.880 --> 1:48:19.479 you were it was written fan, then that was when 1:48:19.520 --> 1:48:22.679 you went more to like you know, Biggie Track Masses 1:48:22.720 --> 1:48:25.840 and Biggie and the Bad Boys stuff going on. 1:48:26.960 --> 1:48:27.880 It was straight up a parts. 1:48:28.120 --> 1:48:30.479 If you went into Stakes is High, that was how 1:48:30.560 --> 1:48:32.680 you got into Dyla, and that was how you got 1:48:32.720 --> 1:48:36.479 into like all the kind of left field underground, these 1:48:36.600 --> 1:48:38.439 kind of shit. You know what I'm saying you the 1:48:38.560 --> 1:48:41.360 hip hop psyche era of music, you know what I mean, 1:48:41.640 --> 1:48:46.519 Sandbox automatic, Yeah, this, Oh my god, I don't know. 1:48:48.160 --> 1:48:49.000 I don't know. I don't. 1:48:49.880 --> 1:48:52.960 I hate to say this, but I wouldn't wish Illmatic 1:48:53.400 --> 1:48:57.080 or Nas again if you were able. 1:48:56.880 --> 1:48:59.799 To do a redo. Does that sound crazy? 1:49:00.120 --> 1:49:00.519 You know? 1:49:02.040 --> 1:49:04.960 I just feel like, is it a burden? Like, do 1:49:05.040 --> 1:49:07.200 you know if it's a burden on him? 1:49:08.800 --> 1:49:09.000 It is? 1:49:09.120 --> 1:49:09.720 I think it is. 1:49:09.800 --> 1:49:15.400 Does he realize the pressure? Like, well, I wouldn't wish 1:49:15.479 --> 1:49:19.160 that on him because it's I don't know, it's not. 1:49:19.360 --> 1:49:21.559 It was like I mean to me, ill Maadic as 1:49:21.640 --> 1:49:23.640 great as it was, like it was, it is, by 1:49:23.680 --> 1:49:26.920 the way, always smart enough is still a thing to me. 1:49:27.000 --> 1:49:27.920 I always looked at it. 1:49:28.000 --> 1:49:31.360 It's like like NAS was like the m Night Shyamalana Phipop. 1:49:34.600 --> 1:49:37.160 I mean, listen, it's like no, seriously, I mean like 1:49:37.320 --> 1:49:40.360 real and I'm a NAS fan, like not do NAS's 1:49:40.560 --> 1:49:43.280 is God legally, but it was like ill Maadic was 1:49:43.560 --> 1:49:46.880 the sixth sense it was written, was unbreakable. 1:49:46.920 --> 1:49:50.000 It's like everything else was everything else? 1:49:50.680 --> 1:49:53.839 Or are you sick of hearing people debate about Illmatic? 1:49:53.920 --> 1:49:55.600 Like you created this monster. 1:49:55.400 --> 1:49:59.280 That I would never personally, I wouldn't be I'm not. 1:49:59.600 --> 1:50:02.600 I mean, it's still relevant. That's the thing. It's you 1:50:02.680 --> 1:50:04.960 know here it is twenty two years later and we're 1:50:04.960 --> 1:50:05.760 still talking about it. 1:50:05.840 --> 1:50:10.400 I just think the idea of Illmatic is our idea 1:50:10.640 --> 1:50:14.360 and our I think we're just crying for a period. 1:50:14.080 --> 1:50:17.840 In hip hop that it's just it's gone. 1:50:18.080 --> 1:50:18.639 It's gone. 1:50:18.840 --> 1:50:22.920 Man, you're basically like I am with the Childish Gambino 1:50:23.000 --> 1:50:26.320 record I never heard. I'm basically you basically say I'm 1:50:26.600 --> 1:50:28.799 I'm pining for something that doesn't exist anymore. 1:50:29.000 --> 1:50:30.880 And that's why I don't like it. Never heard it? 1:50:33.280 --> 1:50:35.559 If you're just tuning in. Our guest is Faith Newman. 1:50:35.880 --> 1:50:38.439 She famously worked as an an r rep at Columbia 1:50:38.439 --> 1:50:40.639 and def Jam back in the early days of hip 1:50:40.680 --> 1:50:43.960 hop and now works at Reservoir Faith. 1:50:43.960 --> 1:50:45.960 Where does your hip hop days land these days? 1:50:47.680 --> 1:50:47.840 Well? 1:50:47.840 --> 1:50:53.599 Shit, you signed Joey Joey Badass, Joey Badass and yeah, 1:50:54.120 --> 1:50:58.040 like yeah, so you still try to. 1:51:00.840 --> 1:51:04.040 So when you went to jive? What period was this? Oh? 1:51:04.120 --> 1:51:08.320 This was the Blingy era. This was ninety seven to 1:51:08.439 --> 1:51:13.040 two thousand UGK stories? You GK stories? I got them? 1:51:14.600 --> 1:51:17.599 Man listening, Yeah, we're listening. 1:51:18.200 --> 1:51:22.840 Okay, Well they couldn't get them to turn into the album. 1:51:23.000 --> 1:51:25.280 So Barry Whyse says you need to go to Houston 1:51:26.439 --> 1:51:28.719 and come back with the album. You have one mission 1:51:28.800 --> 1:51:31.320 and that is to go to Houston, get the album 1:51:31.360 --> 1:51:31.840 and come back. 1:51:31.880 --> 1:51:34.160 And what album was this? Was this ninety seven? That 1:51:34.320 --> 1:51:35.840 was It wasn't Ryan Dirty, it was. 1:51:36.600 --> 1:51:37.360 No, it was. 1:51:39.920 --> 1:51:42.439 Oh god, what was their third album? Well, I mean 1:51:42.600 --> 1:51:44.439 I didn't come back with the ps is that I 1:51:44.479 --> 1:51:47.360 didn't come back with the album. So that would explain 1:51:47.680 --> 1:51:49.040 why the important part. 1:51:48.960 --> 1:51:49.320 Of the story. 1:51:49.560 --> 1:51:57.639 Yeah, and I'm shocked that Weiss would even care, not care, 1:51:57.800 --> 1:51:58.599 but I mean they. 1:51:58.560 --> 1:52:02.400 Were signing his label, weren't they, And the and the 1:52:02.600 --> 1:52:05.960 the other reason he cared was that Jay Prince was 1:52:06.040 --> 1:52:10.960 trying to steal them away from Jive. Yeah, to wrap 1:52:11.000 --> 1:52:14.040 a lot and in fact, I was the hotel that 1:52:14.160 --> 1:52:17.600 I was staying at. He sent somebody to sit in 1:52:17.680 --> 1:52:19.600 the parking lot of the hotel the entire time I 1:52:19.720 --> 1:52:20.000 was there. 1:52:21.560 --> 1:52:24.960 Yeah, yeah, why. 1:52:25.960 --> 1:52:29.080 Some intimidation thing, I don't know, just to let me 1:52:29.200 --> 1:52:34.840 know that they know that I'm there. So Chad PMSY says, 1:52:35.320 --> 1:52:37.160 want to take me to dinner with his mom. 1:52:37.439 --> 1:52:40.599 Mama wes you know who she recently did? 1:52:40.720 --> 1:52:45.160 She Yeah, to a very nice place which was this 1:52:46.160 --> 1:52:48.840 kind of you know, basic steakhouse or whatever, and that 1:52:49.000 --> 1:52:50.760 was fun. And then they had a show to do 1:52:51.760 --> 1:52:54.439 that night. I don't know if it was in the 1:52:54.479 --> 1:52:59.000 Fifth Ward, but it was somewhere not not good. So 1:53:01.040 --> 1:53:03.439 so he's driving to the show and I'm in the 1:53:03.479 --> 1:53:06.200 car with him and he's he's smoking the entire time 1:53:06.400 --> 1:53:09.840 that he's driving, and I got this crazy contact high 1:53:11.320 --> 1:53:12.960 and he says, hold on, I got to pull over 1:53:13.040 --> 1:53:15.000 to this place. And we pull over and it's like 1:53:15.080 --> 1:53:16.600 one of those adult emporiums. 1:53:17.200 --> 1:53:18.639 Oh wow, I'm listening. 1:53:20.920 --> 1:53:22.439 I still to this day, I have no idea what 1:53:22.520 --> 1:53:24.400 he went in there for it just kind of went 1:53:24.479 --> 1:53:24.760 in and. 1:53:27.479 --> 1:53:29.559 Yeah, I gotta make a stop. 1:53:30.080 --> 1:53:31.719 And then uh, and then we went to the show 1:53:31.800 --> 1:53:34.360 and I got my own bodyguard with a rifle. 1:53:35.920 --> 1:53:36.200 Wow. 1:53:36.920 --> 1:53:40.920 And and Jay Prince was in the audience surrounded by 1:53:40.960 --> 1:53:42.320 all these like his whole crew. 1:53:44.600 --> 1:53:44.840 Wow. 1:53:45.920 --> 1:53:48.040 It's just a little, little, adding little story. 1:53:48.160 --> 1:53:49.000 But it didn't shake you. 1:53:49.720 --> 1:53:51.600 No, no, nothing really ever shake me. 1:53:51.680 --> 1:53:54.080 See, you thought you were going there to Anara beats 1:53:54.160 --> 1:53:55.639 rhymes in life and right. 1:53:59.800 --> 1:54:03.280 You gk trailing? What was the what was the the 1:54:03.360 --> 1:54:05.040 too short? Like we had to bail to shut out. 1:54:05.360 --> 1:54:07.280 It was just a weird thing. He was stopped in 1:54:07.360 --> 1:54:10.800 Times Square smoking weed in the truck. 1:54:11.240 --> 1:54:16.080 Who hasn't been What was your tenure? What what period 1:54:16.120 --> 1:54:16.759 were you there. 1:54:16.840 --> 1:54:19.479 At ninety seven to two thousand? 1:54:20.000 --> 1:54:27.720 Ah, you were there for love movements? What we say moment? Wow, 1:54:29.400 --> 1:54:36.320 something real curious. I think the uh. 1:54:37.840 --> 1:54:42.480 I think bum Bee told a story about Pimpsy's uh 1:54:42.960 --> 1:54:50.720 reluctant to jay Z big pimping, Big Pimper, and I 1:54:50.920 --> 1:54:53.960 just remembered not liking the story because I felt like 1:54:54.120 --> 1:55:01.000 just the bottom line was clearly Pimpsy was struggling or 1:55:01.040 --> 1:55:06.040 having conflict of success, which most people have conflict of 1:55:06.240 --> 1:55:11.560 success because it's it's easy to obtain success, it's harder 1:55:11.640 --> 1:55:19.440 to keep keep it going consistently. And it's like clearly 1:55:19.520 --> 1:55:25.640 in the narrative of Bumbee, like Pimpse was absolutely trying 1:55:25.720 --> 1:55:31.560 his hardest to sabotage this big pimpin Ca cameo. 1:55:32.240 --> 1:55:35.680 He's like, well, I'm only going to do eight bars 1:55:35.760 --> 1:55:37.720 and he didn't show up at this time and didn't 1:55:37.760 --> 1:55:39.400 show up and he's not in the video and. 1:55:39.880 --> 1:55:41.760 They had to they had to fly crew down to 1:55:41.800 --> 1:55:42.800 shoot him in Houston. 1:55:42.840 --> 1:55:44.360 That was the only way he would do it right, 1:55:45.160 --> 1:55:48.120 And it's just like why now, I No, he was like, 1:55:48.200 --> 1:55:50.360 you know, hanging on to the credibility and all that stuff. 1:55:50.400 --> 1:55:58.000 But it's like, like, word, I mean, could could Utk's 1:55:58.240 --> 1:56:05.520 appeal have really gone to a national level without the 1:56:05.640 --> 1:56:11.240 aid of jay Z an Outcast had? I mean, I know, 1:56:11.320 --> 1:56:13.360 in hindsight, it's like, Okay, well, of course that they 1:56:13.400 --> 1:56:15.400 put the work in and you know, apply. 1:56:15.200 --> 1:56:18.000 That Nah, you need that thing, I think, But did. 1:56:17.960 --> 1:56:21.680 You feel But did you feel as though even before 1:56:21.840 --> 1:56:26.560 Big pimpod in, before Outcast comes aboard like that, they 1:56:26.640 --> 1:56:27.360 could have been. 1:56:28.840 --> 1:56:31.840 Bigger and you know, a household name. 1:56:32.040 --> 1:56:33.880 A household name. I don't think so. 1:56:35.120 --> 1:56:38.160 Really, really, I can't see pimp seed in a household 1:56:38.240 --> 1:56:40.360 name that just came, you know. 1:56:40.520 --> 1:56:42.320 Like I think they might have found some level of 1:56:42.400 --> 1:56:45.400 success after the success of like No Limit in cash 1:56:45.480 --> 1:56:48.440 money making southern hip hop, you know, more of a 1:56:48.720 --> 1:56:51.520 less of a regional thing. I think it would eventually 1:56:51.560 --> 1:56:54.880 got into UGK like it eventually did. Had they hung 1:56:54.960 --> 1:56:56.960 on and just I don't know if it would have 1:56:57.000 --> 1:56:58.480 gotten to the level that it got to. 1:56:58.800 --> 1:57:01.080 But now they needed I think they needed like definitely 1:57:01.160 --> 1:57:03.960 big pimping that I mean that open, No, they needed it. 1:57:04.200 --> 1:57:06.200 They would have had to have a couple more of those, 1:57:06.280 --> 1:57:10.000 I think, But I. 1:57:10.040 --> 1:57:13.320 Mean it could have at least with the momentum that 1:57:13.440 --> 1:57:18.320 big Pimping brought them, Like could they have you know, 1:57:18.440 --> 1:57:21.120 it was very least feeling like, Okay, we're in a 1:57:21.200 --> 1:57:24.680 role here, we can now cashing and. 1:57:25.000 --> 1:57:27.480 And if they could get them to turn in the record, 1:57:27.560 --> 1:57:28.120 I mean that was. 1:57:31.960 --> 1:57:33.400 What else did you work on it? Jeff? 1:57:35.280 --> 1:57:39.640 I worked on the Tupac album Oh Are You Still Down? 1:57:39.920 --> 1:57:44.000 Still Down? Like a hundred songs on there. 1:57:46.080 --> 1:57:49.240 When I Get Free? How did you guys get access 1:57:49.280 --> 1:57:50.040 to those songs? 1:57:50.320 --> 1:57:52.960 It was a it was a it was a return 1:57:53.080 --> 1:58:00.800 favor for something that Interscope did with just put out 1:58:00.960 --> 1:58:04.880 a jive release or a jive artist that I, for 1:58:05.000 --> 1:58:08.480 whatever reason I cannot remember right now. So in return, 1:58:08.640 --> 1:58:11.160 we will give you, We'll give you, We'll give you 1:58:11.240 --> 1:58:12.840 one album of Tupac music. 1:58:13.320 --> 1:58:17.000 Wow, it's like sports straight trading Man. 1:58:17.840 --> 1:58:20.080 That wasn't a bad album though, I remember, I mean 1:58:20.120 --> 1:58:22.200 because a lot of the cameo joined. H. 1:58:26.560 --> 1:58:30.160 Yeah. It was also shocking Carlin soul shot and calling. 1:58:30.200 --> 1:58:32.520 I wasn't mad at that, really, that was so shocking. Colin. 1:58:32.640 --> 1:58:35.560 Didn't I do Tracy Spencer? Tracy Spencer? Where the hell 1:58:35.640 --> 1:58:37.480 is Tracy Spencer? Didn't she marry one of them? 1:58:37.560 --> 1:58:40.200 She's a doctor or something. I thought, Tracy Spencer. 1:58:40.040 --> 1:58:44.720 You know if someone can. I'm just did you not 1:58:44.760 --> 1:58:48.280 get paid for the remix? Yeah? I got paid for it, 1:58:48.360 --> 1:58:50.680 but I never met Tracy Spencer. 1:58:51.200 --> 1:58:52.600 She was my idol when I was a little girl. 1:58:52.680 --> 1:58:54.960 Hide and Seek a mad did John Lennon, I'm sorry 1:58:55.160 --> 1:58:57.160 she did. Imagine she killed it like she did? 1:58:58.280 --> 1:58:58.760 Agree with you? 1:58:58.920 --> 1:59:03.160 Okay, So Faith, I have a question that actually should 1:59:03.200 --> 1:59:06.920 have asked way, way, way a long time ago. What 1:59:07.080 --> 1:59:08.760 exactly does an A and R person do? 1:59:09.600 --> 1:59:15.440 Oh well, there's different things. I Mean, the first thing 1:59:15.440 --> 1:59:17.560 the A and OUR person does is bring in the talent, 1:59:17.720 --> 1:59:19.840 is scout the talent and bring it into the label, 1:59:20.640 --> 1:59:26.440 and then shepherd it through the recording process. And it 1:59:26.520 --> 1:59:29.320 doesn't really end there, you know, you don't just kind 1:59:29.360 --> 1:59:31.360 of finish a record with somebody and you hand it 1:59:31.440 --> 1:59:33.600 over to marketing or you hand it over to promotion. 1:59:34.480 --> 1:59:36.120 You kind of you see it through the whole way 1:59:36.520 --> 1:59:38.440 because you know the vision and you know the sound, 1:59:38.520 --> 1:59:42.320 and you know you know where it should be going. 1:59:43.400 --> 1:59:45.640 So that used to be what A and R people did. 1:59:45.840 --> 1:59:47.120 Yeah, I was I was going to ask you, how 1:59:47.120 --> 1:59:49.800 has it changed in the from when you started doing 1:59:49.840 --> 1:59:50.240 it to now? 1:59:50.320 --> 1:59:53.480 Well, yeah, you know, I don't know what it's like 1:59:53.520 --> 2:00:00.240 because I've been in publishing for seven years now doing 2:00:00.280 --> 2:00:02.600 A and R, which is kind of like the old 2:00:02.600 --> 2:00:04.400 school way of doing it, which is cool. You know, 2:00:06.400 --> 2:00:08.240 I don't know how it goes on, what goes on 2:00:08.320 --> 2:00:11.360 with the labels. Right now, it doesn't seem like you 2:00:11.480 --> 2:00:16.240 have that much autonomy or you know, I mean, things 2:00:16.280 --> 2:00:22.080 are signed based on logistics and not so much you know, 2:00:22.880 --> 2:00:25.360 just pure raw talent. 2:00:26.160 --> 2:00:30.800 Yeah, well, which ones have gotten away from you? I mean, 2:00:30.840 --> 2:00:32.880 if you're talking in terms of like. 2:00:33.600 --> 2:00:36.600 Just over the course of my career, yes, which. 2:00:39.560 --> 2:00:39.760 Man? 2:00:40.240 --> 2:00:41.320 What you were trying to get them? 2:00:41.360 --> 2:00:45.840 Where at Columbia? Ah man as a unit, Donnie Einer said, 2:00:45.920 --> 2:00:51.800 and I quote their shit, Oh wow wow what? Yes? 2:00:53.640 --> 2:00:57.800 Yes, have you had like revenge talks? Like have you 2:00:58.080 --> 2:00:59.800 called them like yeah? Now what do you think? 2:01:00.080 --> 2:01:00.240 Yeah? 2:01:00.280 --> 2:01:01.160 Right, we could have had that. 2:01:01.320 --> 2:01:03.240 Trust me. I felt like a bunch of times. 2:01:04.120 --> 2:01:09.040 Wow. The entire unit, the entire unit at least had 2:01:09.080 --> 2:01:12.560 a conversation with Risen considered it had a conversation. 2:01:13.600 --> 2:01:14.160 The whole thing. 2:01:15.840 --> 2:01:17.840 Did he ever come with you with with any of 2:01:17.880 --> 2:01:21.000 the solo or the solo projects when he was shopping 2:01:21.040 --> 2:01:21.960 any to say? 2:01:22.000 --> 2:01:24.040 Colombia was the only label. 2:01:23.760 --> 2:01:27.320 That didn't even have remember yeah, well, you. 2:01:27.400 --> 2:01:32.920 Know, not even cap Donna Epic or who Army was 2:01:33.880 --> 2:01:36.920 Killer Army they were on they were like they were 2:01:37.120 --> 2:01:39.720 indie like what Indy but priority or something like that. 2:01:40.000 --> 2:01:42.600 So during that whole period of ninety four to ninety 2:01:42.720 --> 2:01:46.760 like when they were red hot, he just said no. 2:01:47.240 --> 2:01:50.480 Nothing, He just said nothing. This was you know, protect 2:01:50.520 --> 2:01:51.480 your neck days. 2:01:51.560 --> 2:01:55.320 This was ironic being as though one of Mariah's biggest 2:01:55.360 --> 2:01:59.040 singles was right, were you a part of that Brainschild 2:01:59.120 --> 2:02:03.480 that brought the Fantasy remix with ODB at Columbia? 2:02:03.560 --> 2:02:04.120 The town. 2:02:06.560 --> 2:02:13.360 Well faith in hindsight? Like where you with music today? 2:02:13.560 --> 2:02:13.600 Like? 2:02:13.880 --> 2:02:18.040 Does I mean are you are you searching for blood 2:02:18.080 --> 2:02:19.920 in the stone right now? Or is it you know? 2:02:20.240 --> 2:02:22.720 Do you still get this? You fork? 2:02:23.960 --> 2:02:26.400 I do? There's some there's some artists that two artists 2:02:26.440 --> 2:02:28.680 that I'm looking at right now that that moved me. 2:02:29.560 --> 2:02:34.120 This is including who you spoke of the singing include 2:02:34.120 --> 2:02:37.440 what well one of the artists you raved about, Uh 2:02:37.680 --> 2:02:42.680 the singer from down south. I don't know the name 2:02:42.720 --> 2:02:45.280 of the person, but singer from South. 2:02:45.680 --> 2:02:45.880 Yeah. 2:02:46.000 --> 2:02:53.080 Someone there's an act you told me about of oh shit, 2:02:54.240 --> 2:02:56.280 Uh not Sam Cook voice or whatever. 2:02:56.400 --> 2:02:58.560 But they were part of a group. 2:03:00.400 --> 2:03:01.320 Oh watch the Duck. 2:03:02.000 --> 2:03:08.440 Yes, yes, okay, Jesse right, are they closer to doing stuff? 2:03:08.640 --> 2:03:08.720 Ye? 2:03:08.960 --> 2:03:09.160 Yes? 2:03:10.280 --> 2:03:13.320 Okay? Are you still involved in the project? Okay? 2:03:13.400 --> 2:03:15.000 But they were one or two you were speaking of 2:03:15.120 --> 2:03:17.920 when you said, no, there's new ones that I'm looking 2:03:18.000 --> 2:03:22.480 at you guys, Yeah. 2:03:22.280 --> 2:03:24.920 I don Are you just on YouTube now looking for X? 2:03:25.080 --> 2:03:25.360 Or is it? 2:03:25.560 --> 2:03:25.600 No? 2:03:25.760 --> 2:03:28.480 It comes through different places. I mean, I may find 2:03:28.560 --> 2:03:33.880 some something on SoundCloud, you know, occasionally, but mostly it 2:03:34.000 --> 2:03:39.520 comes from just people, I know, managers, you know, mostly managers. 2:03:40.080 --> 2:03:42.360 And you're looking at the oats. Are you looking at 2:03:42.440 --> 2:03:44.480 them in terms of signing them, like publishing deals? 2:03:44.520 --> 2:03:45.520 Yeah, publishing deals. 2:03:45.560 --> 2:03:45.800 Okay. 2:03:45.840 --> 2:03:48.720 Yeah, there's this kid named Joyner Lucas. Okay, you heard 2:03:48.760 --> 2:03:53.880 of him. No, he's dope. He's on some like vivid 2:03:54.480 --> 2:04:01.920 eminem type storytelling clever you know, wordplay kind of thing. 2:04:02.040 --> 2:04:02.520 He's dope. 2:04:02.840 --> 2:04:05.240 But for you, you never want to enter into the 2:04:05.720 --> 2:04:10.440 sphere of traditional record label. 2:04:11.280 --> 2:04:14.000 No, I don't want to go back to that. I 2:04:14.040 --> 2:04:17.240 don't think if you lived through it in the nineties, 2:04:17.320 --> 2:04:22.400 like I did, you you you you can't. I couldn't. 2:04:22.640 --> 2:04:24.760 I couldn't do it right now because I don't know. 2:04:25.720 --> 2:04:27.320 I don't know how they do what they do with 2:04:27.400 --> 2:04:31.760 the resources that they have. Small budgets, yeah, the tiny budgets. 2:04:31.840 --> 2:04:35.680 And so what would satisfy you, like, what gives you, 2:04:37.480 --> 2:04:41.080 you know, what the patter on the back that pat 2:04:41.160 --> 2:04:43.560 you on the back of twenty seventeen, what would that be? 2:04:43.800 --> 2:04:43.960 You know? 2:04:44.200 --> 2:04:46.320 Aside from the artist thing, A lot of what I 2:04:46.400 --> 2:04:51.280 do is catalog deals, and that's the thing, the old 2:04:51.320 --> 2:04:53.960 school stuff. It's like everything for me is come full circle. 2:04:54.280 --> 2:04:56.480 You know what I've knowing who you are? Yeah, you 2:04:56.600 --> 2:04:59.080 love Yeah, you know what I wish you'd do? What 2:04:59.520 --> 2:05:01.240 go to men? Anneapolish. 2:05:01.600 --> 2:05:02.560 I wish I could too. 2:05:03.920 --> 2:05:07.360 I think you should. I can think about that. 2:05:07.640 --> 2:05:07.800 You know. 2:05:07.960 --> 2:05:11.200 I think they're looking for an archiver, somebody to go through. 2:05:11.600 --> 2:05:16.280 Like m Yeah. I love doing stuff like that, make 2:05:16.360 --> 2:05:18.560 it happen, you know, just. 2:05:19.000 --> 2:05:19.760 To get a new job. 2:05:21.000 --> 2:05:23.320 I'm gonna put it out there, put it out in 2:05:23.400 --> 2:05:24.520 the universe. I am. 2:05:24.680 --> 2:05:25.160 I'm putting it. 2:05:25.280 --> 2:05:25.320 No. 2:05:25.600 --> 2:05:26.920 I think you'd be perfect. 2:05:27.040 --> 2:05:31.760 I mean you, I know that your your majestic passion 2:05:31.840 --> 2:05:36.080 for purple is runs deep, and you have enough experience 2:05:36.200 --> 2:05:40.240 in the business to know how to minister and and 2:05:40.880 --> 2:05:42.440 and organize these things. 2:05:42.520 --> 2:05:45.560 And I happen to know they need a lot of help. 2:05:47.080 --> 2:05:50.520 I'm just saying that. Oh wait, I'm supposed to make Yeah, 2:05:50.520 --> 2:05:50.920 you brought it. 2:05:51.000 --> 2:05:51.839 It's your suggestion. 2:05:52.040 --> 2:05:55.120 Oh you know, Faith is magic too. 2:05:55.520 --> 2:05:57.400 She is but a little extra magic. 2:05:58.440 --> 2:05:59.680 One of my favorite country singers. 2:06:02.320 --> 2:06:03.720 She was your favorite R and B singer. 2:06:07.480 --> 2:06:12.040 Faith. Uh yeah, thank you, Thank you so much, everybody, 2:06:12.280 --> 2:06:15.320 Your presidence here. Thank you for not selling out. That's 2:06:15.360 --> 2:06:17.400 what you didn't do. You never cast in, You never 2:06:17.520 --> 2:06:23.040 sold out. Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. 2:06:23.560 --> 2:06:26.880 This classic episode was produced by the team at Mandora. 2:06:30.360 --> 2:06:33.600 For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 2:06:33.840 --> 2:06:36.880 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.