WEBVTT - Episode 1: Queen in the Making 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.000 School of Humans. 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:09.040 This show follows the investigation of serial murders and contains 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:29.680 material that may be disturbing. Listener discretion ADVISEDZA. 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:30.560 Found with it's August seventeenth, two thousand and seven. Krugersdorp, 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:35.360 South Africa, a mining town outside at Johannesburg. A faded, 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:39.280 green and yellow housing complex called Casana Flats sits just 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.360 across from the local hospital, a building that has seen 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:46.240 better days. Inside one of the modest one bedroom apartments, 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:50.199 a group of ten faithful Christian worshippers has gathered in 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:54.520 preparation for war. It is the home of Cecilia Stein, 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:59.080 and the faithful have come to pray over her. You see, 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:03.240 Cecilia is a witch, a forty second generation witch to 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:07.959 be exact. She claims she was once married to Satan himself. 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:12.880 She even has a marriage certificate to prove it. But 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:17.520 these days, Cecilia says she's left Satanism behind. She now 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:22.640 seeks salvation from God's love. The members of this congregation, 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.120 which is devoted to fighting evil in all its forms, 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:32.240 call their group overcomers, Sir Christ. Their leader is a kind, generous, 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:36.760 fifty year old woman named Ria Gruneval. Tonight, she leads 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.039 her followers in songs and fervent prayer to cast the 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.440 devil out of this pale, thirty year old woman. They 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.240 will attempt to divorce Cecilia from her marriage to Satan 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:51.320 in hopes that these frequent possessions will cease. These believers 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:56.400 call this gathering a high Knight. Rihea gives the group 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:00.120 strict orders to keep a close watch on Cecilia, who 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.919 sits on her bed, dead still, like a ticking time bomb. 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:12.480 Without warning, Cecilia bolts upright in bed. She spasms, her face, contorts, 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.440 her body jerks. She twists in her bed, convulsing violently. 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:20.160 She's possessed by a demon, or perhaps the devil himself. 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.000 What you're hearing now is a live recording of an 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:28.560 actual high Night possession. As the young woman thrashes about, 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.280 her body bends and gnarls, her voice screams, and her 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:33.880 soul cries out from. 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:35.360 Deep inside her. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.880 Rhea and her followers exchange glances. They are in a 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:45.960 full on battle for this woman's soul. Cecilia's body whips 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:48.520 and snaps around in bed. It looks as if she's 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:53.240 being hit by invisible blows. The group understands these to 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:57.320 be attacks via astral projection. Cecilia is like a living 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:04.840 voodoo doll. The congregation fights even harder. They pray with conviction. 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.480 Rhea and her congregation are up against a spiritual wall. 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:13.400 They focus their energies on Cecilia, laying hands on her, 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:19.240 and blood bubbles from Cecilia's mouth. This doesn't stop them. 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:23.639 The believers implore the demons to release Cecilia from their grasp, 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:28.400 and then, just as suddenly as the attack began, Cecilia's 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:36.840 body goes limp. She collapses against the bed. She's zerily calm. 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:42.160 The tiny apartment is now hot, stuffy, the air still agitated, 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:47.320 the congregation size. They begin to whisper thanks pe to God. 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:52.080 In the battle for Cecilia's soul, They've won. They beat 0:03:52.120 --> 0:04:06.200 the devil this time. My name is Kurt Kupachek. I'm 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:10.040 a filmmaker and storyteller, and this is the true story 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:12.040 behind the wrath of Cecilia Stein. 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:14.800 She's actually an evil person. 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.279 She was born and bred with the thought that she 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:19.880 has the power to kill. 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.560 In the world of murderous cults. If Charles Manson is King, 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:25.920 Cecilia Stein is Queen. 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.120 She conditioned them to be monsters. 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.760 Why step someone sixty five times in the chaste? 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:37.600 Motivated by power, greed, and revenge, Cecilia's cult, called Electus 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.680 Perdeis killed eleven people in her name and left the 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.920 lives of countless others in shambles. If you want to 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:46.320 get out of this, we will kill you. 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.359 This feels like everybody around you is giving murdered. 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.200 She is absolutely evil. 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:53.760 She is the devil. 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.000 She would do anything to get her way. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.520 Foul of humans and iHeart podcasts. This is Queen Havoc 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:14.000 and her murder Cult Episode one Queen in the making. 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.039 After a couple of years researching, I was eager to 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:32.159 be on the ground to understand more about this devastating 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.400 case that gryptination and to investigate some of the gaps 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.480 in the story I'd read so much about. I wanted 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:40.760 to talk with people, look into the eyes of those 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.920 who lived through it, to hear first hand accounts from 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:48.040 both the survivors and the killers, who, in this bizarre instance, 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.880 are sometimes one and the same. What really hooked me 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:55.039 about this story was the detectives, the lengths to which 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:57.680 they had to go in order to end Cecilia Stein's 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.200 reign of murder in Mayhem eve at least a sense 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:06.280 of justice for the victims and their families. The detectives 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.559 were everyday heroes, but not in some way that's easy 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.320 to define. In fact, some of them were dirty, which 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:16.120 is another part of this story. This is why we 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.640 wanted to speak with them and with everyone we could, 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.800 anyone who could tell us about this case and all 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.160 the horrors that were carried out in a holy name. 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.240 So producer Jennifer Tolkeeney and I traveled from Los Angeles 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.040 to South Africa, where this whole saga began. 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.280 Tomboy International Airport in Jahannesburg local time twenty eight minutes 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:38.760 by six o'clock, South Africa's standard time, and we'll be 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:39.920 talking you for the next few minutes. 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.599 Of Captain's halfway around the world. We traveled to meet 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.400 with detectives, journalists, psychologists, and we even got to speak 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:48.880 with some of the cult members themselves, the ones who 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.120 managed to stay alive, all of whom were forever changed 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:56.960 by Cecilia Stein. On the trail in South Africa, what 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:59.679 we encountered was much more tragic than what we'd imagined 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.280 at the start. In short, The story changed us too. 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.159 He told me about how he killed with that act. 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.840 In speaking with locals and investigating this story, we actually 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.760 shook things up a bit. We ended up unearthing things 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.280 that were meant to remain buried. We were even nearly 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.800 entangled in a police corruption investigation. This story is still 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:28.560 alive and it's still seeking justice. The Kruger's doorf cult killings, 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.320 as they're known in South Africa, were a grizzly chain 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:35.000 of events. To make sense of the near senseless brutality, 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:41.680 Let's get to know Kruger's Door, the small suburb about 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.920 forty minutes west the Johannesburg where the murders occurred, one 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:48.960 that is still tormented by these dark events. Eleven different 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:53.200 languages are spoken across South Africa. Most people in Krugersdorp 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.440 speak Afrikaans as their first language. To understand some of 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.640 the cultural context of South Africa, will turn to academics 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.720 and scholars, ones who were there at the time, like 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:06.000 doctor Nicki Falkoff. 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.120 These towns on the outskirts of Jannisburg, they feel like 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:10.840 places that time forgot. 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:14.600 Almost Nikki has spent her life studying South African culture 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:20.720 post apartheid, and has written extensively on the topic. Driving 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:24.760 through the Greater Johannes Bergeria and Kruger Store, you see 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:30.200 these high walls and imposing iron gates. They're everywhere. Nearly 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:35.439 every community is gated, sealed, closed off. It is a 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.400 rather perfect metaphor for the themes that emerge while we 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:42.920 reported on this story. For instance, when we choose walls 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:46.439 to protect ourselves, we must also consider who we choose 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:50.560 to let in and why these walls, the very things 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.400 we think are protecting us, can actually leave us vulnerable. 0:08:55.400 --> 0:09:01.640 Do they provide protection or imprisonment? On the surface, the 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.040 confines of a cult make you feel like you belong, 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.800 That's why they're appealing. But after a while they begin 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:12.240 to serve as a reminder that once you're in, there's 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:16.559 no getting out. And finally, the biggest question in my mind, 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.280 what drives our inherent human need to belong to something? 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:26.480 And how do our relationships serve our efforts towards satiating 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:31.640 this primal desire. 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:38.800 We have some hijacking hotspots we used to avoid. Yeah, 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.880 so see traffic light at night? I wait like this 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:44.840 because if someone approaches my window right now, I've got 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:47.559 that much space to head forward and they have to run. 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:53.040 That's really good and you put your hand on the hooter. 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:57.280 Yes, that's me and my producing partner Jennifer Tikini driving 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:00.640 with Jermaine Kreher, who helped us now the Gate around 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:02.280 South Africa during our time there. 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:06.120 I'm a South African journalist working across a variety of 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:07.240 beats and mediums. 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:10.640 Jermaine quickly became an integral part of our team as 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:12.319 she grew up very close to Kruger's door. 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:17.240 I am a west Rand baby, born and bridge raised 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.440 on the Westrand, which is just a stone throwaway from Krugersdorp. 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:23.679 The west Rand is a district that implies west of 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:27.920 Johannesburg or Joeburg as the locals call it. Krugersdorp is 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:29.120 in this district as well. 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.280 We have very high levels of poverty across South Africa. 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:37.880 Krugelzorb specifically has very high levels of white poverty, which 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:39.840 makes it quite different from a lot of the other 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:44.959 regions in the same breath. Though it also has incredibly 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:49.559 rich and affluent areas, so it's got this absolute disparity 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.880 this contrast, and I think that probably had a big 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.760 influence in the case, specifically if you look at the 0:10:57.640 --> 0:10:59.959 economic crime elements of it. 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.600 We were very fortunate to have Jermaine's guidance, insight, and 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:08.280 logistical support. We also learned from the many people we 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:11.680 spoke to that South Africa is a fervently religious place. 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:15.880 Close to eighty percent of people identify as Christians nationwide, 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:20.240 many of them in Pentecostal or evangelical traditions. There are, 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.160 of course, and sexral traditions as well, but only five 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:26.800 percent identified with these belief systems in the general household survey. 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.280 And just to be clear, we are dealing with white 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:34.319 communities here, both the criminals and the victims in the US. 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:37.480 This was many people's first question when hearing about this case. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.160 That being said, we can't talk about post apartheid South 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:45.320 Africa without acknowledging the racial dynamics underlying every aspect of 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.800 life there. The segregation of apartheid. It trained white South 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:53.000 Africans to live in a perpetual state of fear. They 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.599 feared to imagine black violence due to the centuries of 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.480 violent oppression, which led to these modern terrified white people 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:03.960 hiding by towering white walls. Here's Niki fealkoff again. 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.760 There was this manifestation of a kind of really hysterical 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:14.600 Christian paranoia, particularly among white South Africa. 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.640 And there was a measurable uptick in communities of faith 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:21.120 leading up to South Africa's own version of Satanic panic 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:22.360 in the nineteen eighties. 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.839 Without a doubt, I think that structural conditions that are 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.920 one hundred percent related to apartheid but have been exacerbated 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:34.320 ever since, are the main driver of these kinds of behaviors. 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:37.000 It's not that Satan has an extra special foothold in 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:37.679 South Africa. 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:40.640 There are a number of theories as to what drove 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:46.320 the fervor, but it grew became ingrained within South African culture, 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.760 while the impending end of apartheid sowed the seeds of 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:53.959 a broader moral panic in fast sections of the white population, 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.360 and over time, these small, tight knit congregations like the 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:05.079 Overcomers through Christ became commonplace. There's someone else I'd like 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.640 you to meet, someone that is very important to this 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.200 story and a person I have come to respect and 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:11.480 admire greatly. 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.840 Suzeit knitze I started with the police in nineteen ninety 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:23.440 started at the Detective Service at our head office detectives. 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.160 Whosec. Canotse is a third generation detective, mother of two, 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.000 and served in the South African Police Service as a 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:33.360 satanic panic gain steam in the nineties. She was also 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.480 one of the detectives who worked on the Kruger's Dor 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.800 of Colt killings, and she's the person who first introduced 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:40.520 me to this case when I met her in Los 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:41.920 Angeles in twenty nineteen. 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:47.439 From there, in ninety two, I started with a unit 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:51.040 called the Occult Related Crimes. 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.680 Yep, you heard that right, that's the Occult Related Crimes 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.559 Unit or ORKUP, an entire unit of the police force 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.440 dedicated to investigating criminal activity with potential links to occult 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:06.880 rituals and practices, witchcraft, the supernatural matters of the spirit. 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.240 It was the only unit of its kind in the world, 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.199 formed in response to the sheer number of gruesome murders 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.080 and misdeeds being reported. Pretty wild, right. 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:22.840 We dealt with all kinds of occult related crimes, being Satanism, 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.800 being well, anything that had to do with the ocults. 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:32.480 Those kind of crimes I handled well myself and pinol Yonka. 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.400 She mentions doctor Colonel Cobis Jonker. He was the founder 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.800 and head of Orku, an author of a book called 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.760 Satanism in South Africa that outlines what kinds of crimes 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.920 they handled, those deemed occult in nature. He told us 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.360 about a couple of particularly macob cases he handled. Some 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:56.440 of these Satanic groups had some dreadful rituals. They often 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:01.520 involved exhumed corpses, severed body parts, and jewelry made from 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:02.520 human vertebrae. 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.560 And then I went up and opened the cupboard next 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:11.840 to him, and there I found that woman's head in 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:12.800 the cupboard. 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.400 Spine chilling. Crimes like this were happening regularly, and the 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:24.600 judicial system, also majority Christian, took satan very seriously. Demonic 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.640 possession was even taken into consideration and courts of law. 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:32.040 The judge basically said, occult and satanic possession would be 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.280 a viable reason in my courtroom for not being prosecuted 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:35.920 for a murder. 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.240 These stories of panic and ritual murder are meant to 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.320 emphasize the gravity of this movement. 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.880 The Satanic panic of the nineties was literally a panic 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.720 about the devil, the literal physical presence of the devil. 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.520 This fear of the devil is still very real for 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:55.800 South Africa and the people of Kruger's door. This frenzy 0:15:55.840 --> 0:16:01.080 affected every level of society, courts, household, school, and people 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:05.160 like Ria Grunavald, Queen Havoc's first victim, or at least 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:23.160 the first that we know of. Ria Grunivald. She was 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.080 known as a pillar in her community, a devout Christian 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.360 and a mother then in her mid fifties. The members 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.880 of her small congregation saw her as a sort of 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.320 warrior fighting to protect the innocent. 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.600 Do you say to white South Africans at a certain age, 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.400 the Satanists are coming for me and they know what 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:40.760 you mean. 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.520 Rhea knew what it meant, and she often won her battles, 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.920 saving ex Satanists from the devil's grasp. But the enemy 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:51.119 was still everywhere. 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.920 This means there's an evil cultic conspiracy that is capable 0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:01.600 of extreme violence and lurks unseen and all sorts of 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:03.240 doors in South Africa. 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.359 Ria was determined to keep those doors bolted shut in 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:08.119 the name of God. 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:14.159 Years back, Ria Krunevald, which were bought obviously of the 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.280 Krugersdorp murders, came to us for training. 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:24.040 Psychologist Fhavinga was a mentor to Rea. His organization facilitates 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.320 training for community leaders. I met with FH at his 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.320 practice and sat down with him to learn more. 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:34.000 She went through a course in our training modules, which 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:38.960 is helping potential victims of a cult related trauma. 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.280 The influence of Satanism was strong enough to require cult 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:47.000 intervention and recovery programs. After her training, Rhea started a 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.520 group she called Overcomers through Christ. Will refer to them 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:54.160 as otc here is Colonel Kobas Yanker again. 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.200 They were the group that dealt with Satanists, getting them 0:17:58.280 --> 0:17:59.480 out of the movement. 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.199 The devil was in fact encircling them, only she was 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:07.280 in disguise. It was Queen Havoc herself, Cecilia Stein. 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:12.960 The day when Celia joined this Overcomers through Christ, this 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:18.840 ministry that Rhea created. Celia came in as she broke 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:23.560 away from Satanism and needs help and needs protection because 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.240 the witches wants to kill her and they have to 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:31.400 hide her, and Rhea gave all to Celia. 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:35.520 Everyone who knew Ria speaks to her altruistic nature and 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.880 ability to see the good in people despite their past. Unfortunately, 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.919 her welcoming spirit and unwavering faith made her vulnerable to 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:44.600 someone like. 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:48.280 Cecilia, religion can be abused to me beul like people 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.040 to get whatever from them. 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.960 That's journalist Jana Marx. She's well known in South Africa 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.680 and wrote the definitive book on this case after being 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.359 present for all of the court proceedings. It's called The 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:04.359 Kruger Store of Cult Killings. Inside Cecilia Stein's Reign of Terror. 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:06.879 We sat down with her in her home to discuss 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:07.280 the case. 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.840 It's happening much more than we think, especially in a 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:13.760 more conservative, more religious country like South Africa. 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.639 Whether or not it was Cecilia's original intention to gain power, 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.639 we will never know. What we do know is that 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:23.480 she wove an intricate and seductive web that a select 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:27.960 few got seriously tangled in. Here's detective suse canoes again. 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:33.000 Celia just saw the loophole in getting close to Riha, 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:38.720 and she just grabbed it. She took Rhea's sensitive personality 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.280 and kind personality for granted. 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:47.000 Ria's mentor breaks down some of her manipulation tactics for us. 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.159 Usually, when we talk about Goulds, we use a byte 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.920 system bie. 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:58.639 Behavior, information, thoughts, and emotions to elaborate a cult leader 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:03.400 exerts control by in influencing their potential followers. Using this methodology, 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.040 the model proposes that these constitute the four components of 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.600 mind control. Behavior is usually the first a good way 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:11.479 to test the waters. 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:17.040 When a cult leader starts influencing people, they first start 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:21.760 controlling their behavior. They do something. The cult leader does 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.120 something and see how people respond. 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.879 Cecilia made fast friends with Rhea, whose whole heart was 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.800 focused on Cecilia's salvation and ultimate deliverance from Satan himself. 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.359 She was an Excitanist, according to her, that was married 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.960 to the devil. She even got a marriage certificate that 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:43.760 she and the devil signed. I don't know exactly where 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:49.320 she made him to sign the contract, but yeah. 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:52.480 That's Detective Ben Boysen think of Chuck Norris with the 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:56.800 tenacity of svu's Elliott Stabler. I mean, this guy lives 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:00.119 to serve, protect and to take down the bad guys. 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.320 We'll spend a lot of time with Ben throughout this podcast. 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.159 It is in large part his determination that eventually broke 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:10.040 the case, and given the pace of the killings, likely 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:15.480 saved many lives. Detective Susette Canotz says Cecilia's claims of 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:19.920 diabolical origins drew Ria in and soon other members of 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:21.399 the OTC were spellbound. 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:21.560 Two. 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:25.680 She had a witch mother that gives birth to it. 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:29.119 Cecilia told Ria that she had a witch mother who 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:33.159 had been sacrificed by the Satanic Church, leaving Cecilia vulnerable 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:37.080 and alone. She was plagued by Satanic possessions that could 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:38.440 overtake her at any moment. 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.720 The devil will come and you will Ripecilia to get 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:43.040 her back into Satanism. 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:47.560 Both women agreed that Ria should hold maternal rights over Cecilia. 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.359 She assured Ria that by maintaining this role, she would 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:54.040 gain more favor in the spirit world and pose a 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:59.520 greater threat to the Satanists. Cecilia began calling Ria Mamma. 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:05.520 Celia could never leave krugez or no. A certain perimeter 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:09.080 of her house was then the witch's attack and she 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:10.520 gets six and whatever. 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:14.520 Rea commissioned OTC members to aid her in what became 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:18.040 a twenty four to seven vigil to protect Cecilia from 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:25.040 these supernatural threats. Cecilia also claimed to suffer from dissociative 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:30.280 identity disorder or DID, meaning she had multiple personalities that 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:32.720 she would slip in and out of a result of 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:37.000 some early traumatic experiences, so Cecilia truly could never be 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:37.840 left alone. 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:42.399 Cecilia would become a little girl or Anya three year old, 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:44.760 and Rio would just play with her. 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.680 They will go to the park and she would lie 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:50.400 in Rio's arm like I don't go with. 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:51.840 You when you go out of a picnic. 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:54.880 They would just really, you know, nurture this little gal. 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:59.000 They would even feed her formula from a bottle when 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:03.880 she was hungry. I know it sounds outlandish to think 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:06.400 about a woman in her fifties feeding this thirty year 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:10.040 old from a baby bottle, but it's true. Ria was 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:17.640 that committed to Cecilia. By two thousand and eight, Ria 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:20.720 deepened her commitment by moving into an apartment down the 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:28.879 street from Cecilia's home at Casana Flats. To protect her 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:32.280 spiritual daughter, Mama Rihea and the other members began to 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:35.640 work in shifts. They took care of all of Cecilia's 0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:40.360 earthly needs. This also meant that Cecilia, now subtly and slyly, 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:44.639 began to control their work schedules. She expected certain people 0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:48.440 to tend to her at certain times. She also exerted 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:52.240 control over when they ate when they slept, what music 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:55.240 they listened to, and what they watched on TV, including 0:23:55.359 --> 0:23:59.760 violent serial killer movies. By twenty ten, after three years 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:03.760 of influence, Cecilia's agenda had all but taken over the group. 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:07.320 The payoff for the OTC members was fulfilling their mission 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:09.280 and saving souls from Satan's grip. 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:14.520 And that's the sad thing. Because Ria gave the platform 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:20.480 for Cecilia to write the information which all her volunteers, 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:25.720 Rhea's volunteers in Overcomers in Christ would follow. 0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:29.720 Cecilia convinced Rhea that our congregation was too focused on 0:24:30.160 --> 0:24:33.560 believe it or not Jesus that in order to fight 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:36.200 the devil, to help people escape from him, they must 0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:39.080 get to know the Prince of darkness. They must study 0:24:39.160 --> 0:24:43.440 him and familiarize themselves with his deceitful ways and clever tricks. 0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:47.879 And Cecilia she knew the devil intimately, so she was 0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:50.200 the only one who could tell them everything they needed 0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:55.439 to know to successfully combat this spiritual battle against evil. Together, 0:24:55.880 --> 0:24:58.000 Ria and Cecilia set out to write a pamphlet that 0:24:58.080 --> 0:25:02.360 laid out just that everything Cecilia knew about Satan from 0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:05.520 her past and how to fight him. They called it 0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:08.360 Know your Enemy. 0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:15.359 That was their manual. That is a perfect platform for 0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:21.760 a cult leader. All the volunteers started admiring Cecilia. Cecilia 0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:27.520 became the leader. Cecilia became the voice. Cecilia became the knowledge. 0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:29.680 Cecilia became the expert. 0:25:31.280 --> 0:25:34.159 All the while, Rhea's mentor saw the red flags and 0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:35.520 did his best to guide. 0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:38.919 Her as it real. Please, we worried about you. You 0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:43.479 are isolating, you don't have mentorship. The only people you 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:46.320 are associating with the people in your group. 0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:48.960 One of the classic signs of a group that has 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:52.119 gotten lost inside itself is when the members believe they 0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:55.119 have enough moral high ground to reject the ideas of 0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:56.800 anyone who questions them. 0:25:57.240 --> 0:26:00.919 We couldn't find any neutral ground. I just said no, 0:26:01.119 --> 0:26:04.000