1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's give a shout out to our 4 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: super producer, non curse enthusiast noted for that, mister Max Williams. 5 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 2: Max shouts at clouds, Williams, I do yell. 6 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 3: At clouds often. 7 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: Well, they've had got it coming. 8 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 2: They know what they are, you know, especially when those 9 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: those ones that just insist upon themselves. 10 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: You know, it's high and high end mighty. I love clouds. 11 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: I you know, it's a story for a different day. 12 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: But the science of how people began recognizing clouds is 13 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: itself a great idea for an episode. Folks, if you 14 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: have not heard part one of Tucumps's Curse, we cannot 15 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: wait for you to explore with us. Please tune in 16 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: and listen to that episode. It gives you all the 17 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: context you need to know before we get to the 18 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 1: really juicy stuff tonight. I am Ben Bullen, joined as 19 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 1: always with the one and only mister Noel Brown did as. 20 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 2: I Yes, who Rah, I finally got it, I think. 21 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: So we'll start with our boy William Henry Harrison the 22 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: max described heel of this story. As many folks might know, 23 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: he did become the president, but his time in office 24 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 2: was blissfully short, like really short, about a month short. 25 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: And while many folks believe he died because he was 26 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: a sixty eight year old man living during a time 27 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 2: when that in an itself could be something of a 28 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 2: death sentence due to a lack of modern medicine, he 29 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 2: also had this sort of unusual hobby of just kind 30 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 2: of hanging out in the rain going for night walks. 31 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 2: I imagine that is largely what led to his downfall, 32 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: in addition to perhaps this curse in question. 33 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: There we go. Yeah, we're going to talk about the 34 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: nature of curses today because, as we said in part one, 35 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people in the US, fellow ridiculous historians 36 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: and future ridiculous historians, have heard the phrase to Cumps's 37 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: curse aka the curse of tip a Canoe, but haven't 38 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: really heard how that became a thing and why people 39 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: tend to believe in it. But it is a part 40 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: of American presidential lore that is up there with the 41 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: list that you will always see of the comparisons between 42 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: JFK and Abraham Lincoln there are a lot of things 43 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: that you can stream some red string around, like events 44 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: that can appear to be part of a pattern, depending 45 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: upon your belief. William Henry Harrison does he believe in curses? 46 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: We don't know he is. His presidency is most famous 47 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: for the sheer abbreviation of it. He made it. He 48 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: made it a month with the top job before he died, 49 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: and a lot of people like you said, Noel, think 50 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: it's something you could chalk up to his age at 51 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: the time he was sixty eight, or his hobby of 52 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: exposing himself to the elements. He would wander around days 53 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: and nights, regardless of the weather. It's kind of like 54 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: an inspiration for the Post Office of being honest, exactly. 55 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: A bit of a goth type. Fellow Martin Kelly writes 56 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 2: in Thought Co in his article did to comes his curse? 57 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: Kill seven US presidents? It comes to his curse, also 58 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: known as the Curse of Tipic News, stems from an 59 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: eighteen o nine dispute between future US President William Henry 60 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 2: Harrison and Shawnee indigenous leader to come to Some believe 61 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: the curse is the reason that Harrison and every following 62 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: president up to Kennedy, who was elected in a year 63 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 2: ending in zero died in office. Right yeah, So little 64 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: numerology playing in here. 65 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: As well, right right, Again, the perception of a pattern 66 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,679 Speaker 1: is key to this, and of course, as established earlier 67 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: in part one, the ratio of presidency survival rates is 68 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: really messed up. There's a very very small sample size, 69 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: still less than fifty people, but eight of those people 70 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: have died in office. We joked that that makes the 71 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: job slightly less secure than the life of a podcaster, 72 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: but only just here's the issue, right, This dispute between 73 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: Harrison and tecumsa Is is a key piece of American history, 74 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: and apparently, according to true believers, it's also a beef 75 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: that led to super natural consequences. So no, Max, Maybe 76 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: we start with the concept of this curse, because despite 77 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: the name, a lot of us may be surprised to 78 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: learn that this curse doesn't come from type Canoe. Instead, 79 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: it comes from the battle at the River Thames, not 80 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: the Thames in London, which I went to recently, and 81 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, man, that's a dirty river. 82 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: Yeah it sure is. Call back to our old episode 83 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 2: on the Great Stink. Yes, yeah, yeah, it's still pretty 84 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 2: dirty to this day. But back in the day, boy, 85 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: that thing was that the Thames was teeming with absolute 86 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 2: filth and you know, sewage and the Yeah, this is 87 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: not that Thames, that Tames Thames different times. But Martin 88 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: Kelly once again right that during the War of eighteen twelve, 89 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 2: Harrison really doubled down on his anti indigenous attitudes. He 90 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 2: defeated the British and the tribes that had aligned with them. 91 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 2: As we also mentioned in the previous episode, during that 92 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: Battle of the Thames, not that Thames. This further defeat 93 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: and the loss of more land to the American government 94 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 2: is apparently what drove to Comsta his brother, the prophet 95 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 2: tanks Quatawa, to place a death curse on all future 96 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: US presidents that were elected in years ending in a zero. 97 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 2: Very interesting that they would choose to add that caveat 98 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: why not just all future US presidents? But perhaps that 99 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 2: was something in the nature of the curse itself. He 100 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: had to have some numerological elements. 101 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: It makes the pattern work, right, that's how they have 102 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: to recognize it. And also Harrison, by the way, he 103 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: is inaugurated, it is president in eighteen forty one, but 104 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: he's elected in eighteen forty, so that's why it descends 105 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: from Harrison. And I love that you're bringing up tens 106 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: Katawa because he is one of the more fascinating characters 107 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: of this piece of history to me, and agreed, yeah, 108 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: and he's also like, Okay, we said, the name for 109 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: the curse is weird and doesn't really work because it's 110 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: not based on tip of canoe and it's called to 111 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: Coumsa's curse, But Takumsa isn't the one who did the curse. 112 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: According to the story, Tensquatawa enacted the curse, placing that 113 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: on the placing this death, this supernatural death upon every 114 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: US president, as you said, only elected in years starting 115 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: or ending in a zero. And we also have to 116 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,239 Speaker 1: remember a very important part about how history is made here. 117 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: Everything we discussed about ten Skawata in our previous episode 118 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: shows that he couldn't really do magic. He got exposed 119 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: as a fraud with that, with that wild attack on 120 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: Harrison's camp where he promised that he would give people 121 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: magic powers and failed, and then he skidaddled he left town. 122 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: So we want to be aware of the context, but 123 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: we also want to realize that a lot of the 124 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: people responsible for creating the lore of Tecumsa's curse. They 125 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: were asodicizing Native Americans. They were like, oh, watch out 126 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: for all this spooky Native magic, because it can't be true. 127 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: The people in the most stressful job in the US 128 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: often just sometimes die. It has to be magic. 129 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, let's go through some of these examples, 130 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: many of these biographies coming from the White House dot Gov. 131 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 2: Let's start with, of course, eighteen forty William Henry Harrison. 132 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 2: His bio actually picks up right after the Battle of 133 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 2: the Thames, and here's a quote from the bio on 134 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 2: white House dot gov. Thereafter Harrison returned to civilian life. 135 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: The Whigs, in need of a national hero, nominated him 136 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 2: for president in eighteen forty. He won by a majority 137 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 2: of less than one hundred and fifty thousand, but swept 138 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 2: a fun, fun political maneuverings here swept the notorious Electoral 139 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 2: College two hundred and thirty four to sixty. But before 140 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 2: he had been in office a single month, he caught 141 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 2: a cold that developed into pneumonia, and on April fourth, 142 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 2: eighteen forty one, he died, the first president in fact 143 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: to die in office, and with him the Whig Party, 144 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 2: the Whig program, the Whig ideology died as well. 145 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and the Wigs have been sort of struggling 146 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: for a while. This was kind of their death knell. 147 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: And some people Okay, So if we try to trace 148 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: back the causes of Harrison's death, if we put on 149 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: our old Casey pegram Casey on the case law and 150 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: order vibes, thank you back, what we see is that 151 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: a guy named Daniel Webster, he writes a very long 152 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: inauguration speech for Harrison, and Harrison goes and gives this 153 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: speech in its entirety on a freezing rainy day in March, 154 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: or not freezing but very cold, because it was still raining. 155 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: And a lot of people will say that because he 156 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: was exposed to the elements for so long, he got 157 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: pneumonia and he took ill and died as a result. 158 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: Other people say it was still the weather. But the 159 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: weather got to him not during that inauguration speech, but 160 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: during one of his long ambulations he took later that month, 161 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: and he didn't dress appropriate leave for the elements. That's 162 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: the more popular theory because that long walk is closer 163 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: in precedent to his actual death. 164 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 3: I'm just gonna say it. With how this dude was 165 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 3: acting at sixty eight years old, it was gonna happen, right, 166 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 3: It just would go knocking in the rain. 167 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 2: A particularly good steward of his personal health, this guy. 168 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,479 Speaker 1: And let's also remember that he had a very demanding 169 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: social schedule. It's all gas, no breaks. The walk theory 170 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: goes to March twenty fourth, eighteen forty one, because he 171 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: always would take a daily morning walk to the local markets. 172 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: This is also when security for the potus was way 173 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: lower than it is today. I mean, imagine if you 174 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: live in DC and President Joe Biden like comes into 175 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: the target, it just says, you know, I don't have 176 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: a shopping list, I'm just here for the vibes. 177 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 2: I walk over and heck with Biden's you know, advanced 178 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 2: age being you know easily what almost thirty over twenty 179 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 2: years this guy's senior, he's probably almost more along the 180 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 2: lines of like today, what would be considered an advanced 181 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 2: age for a president, that this would have been considered 182 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 2: back in those days, so extra care, one would think 183 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 2: would have been taken, and that people wouldn't have been 184 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 2: letting this character just wander around in the muck you know. 185 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: But this is also here's the other weird thing. If 186 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: you look at the medical treatment of Harrison after he 187 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: took ill, then you see that blood letting was still 188 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: very much considered legitimate medicine. No, so the doctors. The 189 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: doctors were bleeding him starting on Sunday in March twenty eighth, 190 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: and then they they eventually stopped. But blood letting for 191 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: a sick person is usually not going to help. It 192 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: may actively harm them. 193 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 2: Do we have any examples of any time that this 194 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 2: method actually functionally helped anybody throughout history? 195 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: I believe that there are, Well, it depends are we 196 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: talking about a lot of blood or are we talking 197 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: about small just. 198 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 2: A practice in and of itself. I mean, it seems 199 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 2: like it was based on just junk science from the 200 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 2: start and more kind of superstitions or things that just 201 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 2: weren't confirmed by any actual, you know, real research or science. 202 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 2: I'm just wondering if there's ever an instance where some 203 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 2: small amount of blood letting actually helped somebody out. 204 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: Well, there's things not really, I mean, there are examples 205 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: of the modern day, like taking someone's blood to run 206 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: blood test that can be a life saving procedure. 207 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 2: Sure, that's what we're talking about here, closest thing. Yeah, now, 208 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 2: blood work is crucial, but that again involves getting to 209 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 2: the root of the problem rather than that being the 210 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 2: remedy in and of itself. 211 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: So here's my pitch. The curse to the curse of 212 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: typical or to Comes. His curse is real, but not 213 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: the way we understand. Harrison died because his doctor was 214 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: a vampire. Okay, fair, no on the fact check us out, 215 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: but this is kind of alistical. Episode two folks were 216 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: giving you more and more examples of people who supposedly 217 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: fell to to Coms his curse, and surprise, surprise, one 218 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: of the most famous guys who fell to to Comes 219 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: his curse is the famous former amateur wrestler Abraham Lincoln. 220 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: Fun fact, was also president for a minute. 221 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 2: The reach on that guy, Ben is, I know we've 222 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 2: already kind of touched on this a little bit, but 223 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 2: do you have any theories or Max as well, on 224 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 2: why this curse got lumped in with Tacumsa rather than 225 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: the more spiritual leader of that kind of movement. 226 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's because Tecumsa was the more important political figure 227 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: and so the one that would be more readily identifiable 228 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: to the American public. 229 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: So really it's just kind of a buzz thing like 230 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 2: almost branding that makes sense. 231 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 3: Right, And it was also like just in kind of 232 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 3: the story, it's William Henry Harrison, it's to Come, So 233 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 3: they are the opposites and the prophet's kinds of a 234 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 3: secondary character. 235 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 2: There actually becomes a point where the profit actively disobeys 236 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 2: to Comes to military strategy, where he essentially they part 237 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 2: ways because he's no longer of use to to Comes 238 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 2: because he's basically cracked the bed to such a degree 239 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 2: that he has become politically a liability for it to 240 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 2: COMSA at this point, right, Yeah, nobody trusts him anymore, 241 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 2: and it comes to his whole strategy relies on good 242 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 2: diplomacy and good relationships. 243 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, even people who had the prevailing racism at the 244 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: time would have said to their peers, to Comesa is 245 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: a competent tactician. We can work with him. You can 246 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: work with him. It's almost like he's a human being. 247 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 2: Almost quite but Lincoln, right, the idea that Lincoln, who 248 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 2: was of course elected president of November sixth, eighteen sixty, 249 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 2: a year ending in zero, that his downfall, his demise 250 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 2: specifically was tied to this curse is something that you know, 251 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 2: kind of holds in this this whole lore that we're 252 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: talking about here. On Good Friday, April fourteenth, eighteen sixty five, 253 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 2: Abraham Lincoln is assassinated, the victim of an assassin's bullet 254 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: at Ford's Theater in Washington, d C. The assassin in question, 255 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 2: of course, John Wilkes Booth, who famously jumped out of 256 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 2: his box seat and fell to the stage and I 257 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: believe broke his leg, isn't that right? 258 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: Six simpered tarannus thus to all tybrants. 259 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, so real splashy showing there from from 260 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 2: John Wilkes Booth, who was an actor. So I'm sorry 261 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 2: it wasn't he jumped from from some height, right, because yeah, 262 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 2: balcony after the falconon, that's but Lincoln himself was also 263 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: in a balcony seat. He was in a box seat, 264 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 2: so I'm assuming that the balcony in question from Wilkes 265 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 2: Booth was adjacent in some way. And then he tried 266 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 2: to make his daring escape but kind of botched the landing. 267 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 3: I mean, I believe there was a lot of showmanship too, 268 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 3: like there wasn't any trying of like Wilkes, Booth was 269 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 3: not trying to sneak away. 270 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 271 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, he exclaimed that quote that you just said, like, 272 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 2: you know, very actively and loudly in actory fashion. 273 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, which shows you again the hazards of hiring hiring 274 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: actors to do a hitman's job. 275 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 2: Uh. 276 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why leam Neeson would actually not be not 277 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: be good and have taken situation probably. Also, of course, 278 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: the death of Lincoln does not have the effect that 279 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: Booth wanted. It removes the possibility of a more compassionate 280 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: piece between the North and the South. Now, absolutely wood. 281 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 2: Feud, very polarizing. Yeah, it has the exact opposite effect. 282 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 2: Moving on to eighteen eighty with James Garfield. Yeah, and 283 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: obviously very easy to make the connection of being associated 284 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 2: with a certain lasagna eating cat who does not care 285 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: for Mondays. I'm not sure if Jim Davis named Garfield 286 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 2: after the President unclear. I don't know if you know 287 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 2: anything about this, Max, but not not something that I've 288 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 2: seen any writing about. 289 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 3: I haven't either, But I'll say this right now, James 290 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 3: Garfield is actually kind of cool. 291 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 2: I actually like him. 292 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 3: Zacherfield, which really sucks that he's on this list though. 293 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,719 Speaker 1: It's weird though, because we're also looking at him in 294 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: comparison to his peers and other presidents of the day. 295 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: So the bar to be cool is been. 296 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 3: What are you saying Gilded Age presidents weren't good? You know, 297 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 3: who are we to judge? 298 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: I'm not out here trying to get cursed. 299 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 3: Hey, I'll say's rid Rutherford B. Hayes really liked animals? Yeah, sure, 300 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 3: which makes them probably number two of the guilded Age, 301 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 3: which is pretty bad if they Rutherford be Hayes your 302 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 3: number two president just because he likes animals. 303 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 2: And Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian. But I'm just saying, 304 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 2: like quite the painter. But yeah, no, no he was. 305 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 2: It wasn't good enough to make it. He didn't have 306 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 2: a career and already ahead of him. But they ought 307 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 2: to really refer to this as the bishitted age. 308 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: There we go. 309 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 2: I love it. 310 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: I love also that the English language has more than 311 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: twenty more than twenty three words to describe something having 312 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 1: shit on it or something having thrown on it. 313 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, of course, we've got certain 314 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 2: incorrect pieces of lore around certain indigenous cultures having lots 315 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 2: of words for snow or things that they are surrounded by. 316 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 2: So despite that being often much over reported, it does 317 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 2: make sense that America, somewhat mired in crap throughout our 318 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 2: troubled history, would have so many words for that scenario. 319 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: I just I'm so happy you guys use the word shitted. 320 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: It's one of my favorites, the fun one twenty sethn words. 321 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,479 Speaker 1: But also we should mention, by the way, that in 322 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: the deaths of Harrison, in the death of Lincoln, and 323 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: in the upcoming death of Garfield spoiler. 324 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 2: Alert, Actually it's kind of what the episode's about. 325 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: No one at this point is claiming there's a curse. 326 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: By the way, this is a very key piece of 327 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: the story. 328 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 2: We're going to get to that when it really becomes 329 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: a news item, right then they go, oh, what about 330 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 2: that thing? That'd be fun to write about. So Garfield 331 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 2: is elected to the United States presidency in eighteen eighty. 332 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 2: He serves nine terms up to that point in the 333 00:20:54,320 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 2: US House of Representatives, and before being the president, he 334 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 2: was already a pretty accomplished academic. He was a college 335 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 2: professor and also served as the president of the Ohio 336 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 2: State Senate. He was on the right side of the 337 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 2: Civil War and eventually did become a major general as well. 338 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 2: So very storied and diverse career in public life, this guy. 339 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. He was a career bureaucratic, career legislature. This 340 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: is the kind of one of. 341 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 2: The good ones, though it would seem, especially given the time. 342 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: This is a guy you would want to be president 343 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: because of his experience. And at this point, by the way, 344 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: the US public was not as dead set against college 345 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: professors being president as they are now. 346 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah, yeah, there is some division around that, the 347 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 2: idea of like academics being too soft or something. Right. 348 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is also, by the way, one thing 349 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 1: that's very impressive about Garfield is that he is not 350 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: what we would call a NEPO baby today, right. He 351 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: is not born into some bizarre dynasty like the Clintons 352 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: or the Bushes or the Kennedys. He comes from a 353 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 1: family that you would call like working class, working class 354 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: to middle class. His dad dies when he's only two, 355 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: and Garfield had to put himself through school. One of 356 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: the tales of Garfield lore is that he was able 357 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: to pay for his education by learning how to drive 358 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: canal boat teams, which is and Max you noted this too. 359 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: It's essentially helping ship stuff on rivers. So these are 360 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: still during the days of the Great Mississippi river boat trade. 361 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 2: Very mar Twaina is yeah. And there are. 362 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: Statements that speak to his character. He does seem to 363 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: be a guy who was really thinking through not what 364 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: is good for me, but what is good for this 365 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: American experiment. People were trying to make him president. They 366 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: were pushing them, and they were like, Jimmy G, Jimmy G, 367 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: you got to be president. And he would for a while. 368 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: The candidate doth protest too much because he said, no, 369 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: there's another guy. His name's John Sherman. He is way 370 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: more qualified. He will be a better president for the 371 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: United States. That's from Jeff Jacobee over at the Boston Globe. 372 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 2: Well you love to see that, don't you. Someone. I'm 373 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 2: always a little suspicious, I think, as we all are, 374 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 2: of people who seek that level of, you know, public 375 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 2: office and they're like working towards it, because it often 376 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 2: seems to be a little bit self serving when you 377 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 2: have someone that's like saying no, no, no, no, this 378 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 2: other guy's got this better qualified, this isn't for me. 379 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 2: You do tend to and they're pushed into it because 380 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 2: of others seeing in them, perhaps things they don't see 381 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: in themselves. That always impresses me, you know, and then 382 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 2: strikes me as a better qualification than someone who spent 383 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 2: their entire life working towards, you know, holding this kind 384 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 2: of office. 385 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: I think it's indicative of character. Yeah, and do we 386 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: know if this was false modesty or was it a 387 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: genuine case of moral values? Unclear at this point, but 388 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: let's err on the side of optimism. And I love 389 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,719 Speaker 1: the way you put this here. Backs. Unfortunately for Garfield, 390 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: despite his protest, he was nominated. He was elected. He 391 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: was also elected in a year that ended with zero no. Yeah. 392 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 2: Yeah. July second, eighteen eighty one, at a Washington railroad station, 393 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 2: an attorney who had sought a consular post shot President Garfield. 394 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 2: He was mortally wounded once again, even a flesh wound 395 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: at this time, you know, could eventually he leads to 396 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 2: sepsis and and death. He is mortally wounded. He lay 397 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 2: in the White House for several weeks before passing away 398 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,479 Speaker 2: it succumbing to his to his wounds. 399 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and his death. 400 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 2: They couldn't find the bullet right like, they find that his. 401 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: Death is fascinating because it factors in another luminary of 402 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: the day, Alexander Graham Bell has invented an induction balance 403 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: electrical device. He's like the Tony Stark of this era totally. 404 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: And so he tries to find the bullet in Garfield 405 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: and he fails. Garfield has taken to the New Jersey 406 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: shore on September sixth, and there is. 407 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 2: A very different just this it was. It was and 408 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 2: it was more idyllic. 409 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 3: And they were thinking, said Garfields, that lifting up his 410 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 3: shirt off his abs. 411 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 2: Well, he's probably lifted up someone's lifted up his shirt. 412 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 2: They're like, where the fuck is this poking for the bullet? 413 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, but this was still the time when people thought 414 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: changing your weather or changing the weather you encounter could 415 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: have curative effects, so like. 416 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 2: Climates exactly, some shits and stuff like that. 417 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, taking in the air, this doesn't work. It looks 418 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: like maybe he's recuperating. But that was just wishful thinking 419 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: on the part of medical professionals and political supporters. What 420 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: was happening is it was still slowly dying. On September nineteenth, 421 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty one. He dies from an internal hemorrhage. 422 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 2: That's right, he does succumb to that gunshot. So it's 423 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 2: a slow and taking cline now exactly, I would imagine 424 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 2: quite painful. Moving on nineteen hundred, we've got William McKinley. 425 00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:00,719 Speaker 2: McKinley not so much of a hero of our story 426 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 2: insomuch as Garfield was. At least he's considered by many 427 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 2: to be one of the last of this era we've 428 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 2: been describing, the bashetted Age or Gilded Age, which isn't 429 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 2: considered to be a particularly stellar era for American history 430 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 2: and politics. 431 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: Oh, I do have to say, though, you're absolutly righting 432 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: the setup. I do have to say for Garfield, I'm 433 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: pretty sure that doctors killed him because they kept digging 434 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: into his guts to try to find the bullet. That's 435 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: exactly right. They like they were digging holes in the guy. 436 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: But with McKinley something very different. He is a child 437 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: of corruption, is a he benefits greatly from the corrupt 438 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: election of eighteen ninety six, and a lot of people 439 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: I see your note here, Max. A lot of people 440 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,959 Speaker 1: will tell you to this day that the actual election 441 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: if it had not been rigged, would have gone to 442 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: William Jennings Bryan and be absolutely clear. I one hundred percent. 443 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 3: Agree with that, and we're gonna have that part too eventually. 444 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 3: Right of all the presidents, we ran a bunch of 445 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 3: all the dudes who ran a present a bunch of times. 446 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 3: So we just will ending on the William Jennings briding part. 447 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it. I got it. Uh, 448 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: I haven't gotten I haven't done that one yet, Max, 449 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: because there weren't any good mistranslations, but we will, we will. 450 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: We will have some you could call a mistranslation of justice. No, 451 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: but yeah, we have a We have Jennings coming on 452 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: the way and it's going to be a banger. Also, Uh, 453 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: McKinley isn't super photo Jenny McKinley looks like a meme 454 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: of an evil guy. 455 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 2: Uh, his fingers steepled, mister burns. 456 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: And the like, just so you know, has drawing comparisons 457 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: to the penguin. If you pull up one of the 458 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: most popular pictures of McKinley, like the stuff you see 459 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: on his on his Wikipedia page or on his White 460 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: House dot gov entry, then he looks exactly like Colin 461 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: Farrell in The Batman playing the penguin. 462 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, which is some pretty impressive. It was practical 463 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 2: effects in terms of that when he was when I 464 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 2: saw the original Batman movie, I had no idea that 465 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 2: was Colin Farrell, uh for quite a while until I 466 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 2: saw the credits, and they've got him appearing in a 467 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 2: series coming up where he is that character, So kudos. 468 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 2: It's called acting, and also with the aid of some 469 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 2: really good makeup effects. 470 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: Oh you know. I was also tremendously impressed with not 471 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: Robert de Niro, Robert Downey junior in Oppenheimer. 472 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 2: That's what I've heard. I haven't been yet, that. 473 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: Guy from in the beginning. It was. It was fascinating, 474 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: so well done. 475 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 2: Rob. 476 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: It's tough to make a living as an actor, and 477 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: I wish you continued further success. 478 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 2: A big fan of practical effects versus like the CGI types. 479 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 2: Even you know, I'm sorry not to get off track, 480 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 2: but in The Maestro, a lot of a lot has 481 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 2: been made of Bradley Cooper's nose. This is a fund 482 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 2: as prosthetic knows. But when you really go back and 483 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 2: look at footage of Leonard Bernstein, that feature really does 484 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 2: sell the role. It really does. They did quite a 485 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,959 Speaker 2: good job of it, and I can understand why they 486 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 2: decided to go that route. 487 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: And so this idea of this tendency to always look 488 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: kind of villainous in photographs, it's what our pal Max 489 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: calls James C. Calhoun's syndrome. We're an audio podcasts. We 490 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: also want this journey to be your own. So take 491 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: a look at James Calhoun and let us know if 492 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: you agree. 493 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, James C. Calhoun, the dude so messed up that 494 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 3: Andrew Jackson looked at him and said, like, dude, you're 495 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 3: fucked up man, right, Like you know you're bad. If 496 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 3: Andrew Jackson is uncomfortable with the things you're. 497 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: Doing, Andrew Jackson calls you problematic, you might it might 498 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: be time for some self inventory. So McKinley is openly 499 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: a pro business president when he's first elected in eighteen 500 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: ninety six in that corrupt election, because the corporate power 501 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: that be want a guy who will accede to their rule. Right, 502 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: that's what corporate powers historically want. They want all the 503 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: advantages of a democracy or of a stable government, and 504 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: they want all the disadvantages or obligations of that government 505 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: to fall on the people rather than the companies. That's 506 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: not a hot take, and it's not I mean, I 507 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't even ascribe morals to it. It's just what those 508 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,959 Speaker 1: organizations are built to do. The biggest event of McKinley's 509 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: presidency is the Spanish American War, and like to Cumsa's curse, 510 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: the name is confusing. The Spanish American War did not 511 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: take place in Spain. It was not fought in the 512 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: United States. It was in Cuba, in the Philippines, in 513 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico. It was a one hundred day war across 514 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: these areas, and it greatly expanded the overseas holdings of 515 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: the US. That's right. 516 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 2: And McKinley would then go on to run against once 517 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 2: again William Jennings Bryan and win reelection in nineteen hundred 518 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 2: ding ding Ding, ending with zero. So here is where 519 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 2: the curse comes into the discussion. And here's a quote 520 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 2: from the White House gov Bio. His second term came 521 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 2: to a tragic end in September nineteen oh one. He 522 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 2: was standing in a receiving line at the Buffalo Pan 523 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 2: American Exposition when a deranged anarchist wow shot him okay, 524 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 2: fair enough shot him twice. He died. He succomb to 525 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 2: his wounds eight days later, again presumably a painful demise. 526 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 2: His death led to Theodore Roosevelt then becoming the youngest 527 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 2: president in American history. Yeah, yeah, there's no trivia before you. 528 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 3: Everyone was six since JFK. JFK is the youngest elected president, right. 529 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: And Theodore is the youngest to actually assume the presidency. 530 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: So then we have it all right, and still at 531 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: this time, by the way, spoiler, folks, nobody's talking about 532 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: to comes his curse. It comes his old beans. No 533 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: one cares about this dude, right now. Fast forward nineteen 534 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: twenty one of the also rands of the American presidency, 535 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: Warren G. Harding. He has a quote from his own perspective, 536 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: his own retrospect, where it gives us a sense of 537 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: how sort of BEAYIESI and blase his presidency was. Here 538 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: goes America's president. Need is not heroics but healing, not 539 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: nostrums but normalcy, not revolution but restoration, not agitation but adjustment, 540 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: not surgery but serenity. Not the dramatic but the dispassionate experiment, 541 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: but equipoise, submergence, in internationality, but sustainment in triumphant nationality. 542 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, wow, that's the real snoozer. Unlike his predecessor, however, McKinley, 543 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 2: Harding was pretty clearly very pro commerce, very pro business, 544 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 2: and he had a much more presidential vibe. Let's just say. 545 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 2: An Ohio admirer Harry Doherty started to promote Harding for 546 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 2: the nineteen twenty Republican nomination because he felt as though 547 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 2: he looked like a president really great, you know, bona 548 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 2: fides for doing the job not right. And one time 549 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 2: he told his then Secretary of Commerce, Herbert Hoover, if 550 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 2: you knew of a great scandal in our administration, would you, 551 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 2: for the good of the country and the party expose 552 00:34:59,040 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 2: it publicly? 553 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: Would you bury it? And Hoover's like, do the right thing, dude, 554 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: go public and then Harding's like, I don't want. 555 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 2: To though, No, no, I'm good. 556 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: Oh and he dies in August of nineteen twenty three 557 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: in San Francisco heart attack. No one says there's a curse. 558 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 3: But Calvin Coolish becomes president, which is Calvin Coolidge episode. 559 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, we did, we did, Calvin Coolidge. 560 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 3: It's kind of cool. 561 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: We did a hoover damn episode two. I mean, we're 562 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: running through the hits here. 563 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 3: We're building over twenties presidents. We've talked about all of them. 564 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 2: They don't really do anything fair. Well, we're out of 565 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 2: the twenties now and into the forties, the Roaring forties now. 566 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 2: I think it's the roarings over by this point. Franklin 567 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 2: Delano roosevelts, this one's a little bit longer. So we're 568 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 2: going to do our best to kind of be as 569 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 2: pithy about it as we can. We have mentioned before 570 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:56,879 Speaker 2: that this president, Franklin D. Roosevelt, was president so many 571 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 2: times that it were it caused the laws on how 572 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 2: many times one can hold this office to actually be changed. 573 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, often in these divided political times, people hate 574 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 1: to uh to point out or to be reminded that 575 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,439 Speaker 1: the New Deal absolutely saved the United States. They hate question, Yeah, 576 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: they hate to get jobs. 577 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 2: It helped improve infrastructure, so many positive things resulted from that. 578 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,760 Speaker 1: They hate to be reminded that the US came very 579 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 1: close to insolvency in this regard, and Della knows saved it. However, 580 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: another thing people don't like to admit, even especially Onike 581 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:46,320 Speaker 1: the left aisle of political discourse. Here, Franklin D. Roosevelt 582 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: came very very close to becoming a dictator, and so 583 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: the law had to be changed. 584 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 3: What I didn't realize until honestly a couple of years 585 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 3: gone up, and you have been studying presidential history for 586 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 3: most of my life, is I was thinking young. He 587 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,240 Speaker 3: still was when he passed away. He was in the sixties. 588 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, very young for president. He could have. 589 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 3: Gone like twenty more years at that job, which he 590 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 3: probably would have. 591 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 1: He would have, yeah, and he would have become a 592 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: similar to like a strong man dictator, would have been 593 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 1: very dangerous for the country, to be. 594 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 2: Honest, I see what you're saying there, Ben, and I 595 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 2: totally understand the need to change the lodges for president. 596 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 2: Was there anything particularly dictator ish about his behavior? He 597 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 2: is regarded as positive? Okay, there was. 598 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:30,439 Speaker 1: Yeah. 599 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 3: He tried to was it, try to expand the Supreme 600 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 3: Court from nine to twenty three? Yes, he didn't like 601 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 3: the Supreme Court and stuff. He did some. 602 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 2: Stuff, So a mixed bag, a complex individual. Obviously accomplished 603 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 2: some very very positive important things, but then got it 604 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 2: maybe a little too big for his breaches. 605 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 3: There's a lot of like, you know, preaches Andrew Jackson's 606 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 3: obviously a horrible human being, but he was Andrew Jackson. 607 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 3: People always want to come out say he's a terrible president. 608 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 3: There's lots of people is terrible. But he's a very 609 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 3: impactful president, very impactful present. 610 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'd agree with that. We also know he 611 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,280 Speaker 1: was following the footsteps of his fifth cousin, Theodore Roosevelt, 612 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: most famous for inspiring the stuff Teddy Bear, and he 613 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: rose through the Senate. He was definitely a silverspoon boy 614 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: by the way he rose through the Senate. In nineteen ten, 615 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: he becomes Assistant Secretary of the Navy. He gets the 616 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: VP nomination in nineteen twenty. In nineteen twenty eight, he 617 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: is the governor of New York. He is elected amid 618 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: the absolute terrible pandemonium of the Great Depression in nineteen 619 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: thirty two, which. 620 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:41,320 Speaker 2: Is also how we know dictators often come to power, 621 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 2: you know when countries there are under states of duress 622 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 2: and they are seen as the only person that can 623 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 2: carry the country through. 624 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, I mean this is in these times of instability. 625 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: The public, if they're well, matter what kind of government 626 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 1: they have in times of instability, the public will increasingly 627 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,720 Speaker 1: question the status quo. Right Like the French were starving 628 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 1: and they said, is there a God? Is there a 629 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 1: real reason that the monarchy should be in charge? Are 630 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 1: they even qualified? And they decided the monarchy was not qualified. 631 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: I would say they were also correct in that estimation. 632 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,800 Speaker 1: This is around the time, by the way, that a 633 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:33,360 Speaker 1: bunch of rich corporate interests conspire to overthrow the United 634 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: States government and start a fascist regime. This was called 635 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: the Business Plot. Today, no one was officially convicted because 636 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,439 Speaker 1: Congress was The Congress members were for the most part 637 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: puppets of big corporations, of banking interests. But shout out 638 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: to absolute peace of craps Medley Butler, who was a 639 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: Curmudgeont who saved the country as we know it. Check 640 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: out our our show Let's Start a Coup for more 641 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,320 Speaker 1: at that. But these are very uncertain types. Okay, FDR's president. 642 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 1: He launches this thing called the New Deal. And to 643 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: be clear to our earlier point, the New Deal program 644 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 1: saved America, but they were intensely undemocratic, like the way 645 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: they were pushed through the public loves him though that 646 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: the haves hate him. The have nots love him. He 647 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 1: gets re elected three more times, nineteen thirty six, nineteen 648 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: forty ending in a zero and nineteen forty four. So 649 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: he's at the wheel of power through the Great Depression 650 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: and then through most of World War Two, and he 651 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: has a lot of health problems as a result. We 652 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: were talking in part one about how just four years 653 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: in that job will absolutely wreck you. Oh yeah, this 654 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,760 Speaker 1: guy has been wrecked four times. 655 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:58,439 Speaker 2: He's been through the freakin' ringer. His health really had 656 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,879 Speaker 2: begun to deteriorate in on it April twelfth, nineteen forty five, 657 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 2: while having a little sabbatical I guess at Warm Springs, Georgia, 658 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 2: he succumbed to a cerebral hemorrhage. 659 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, he sure did, and with him a unique part 660 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: of American history also expires. Fast forward to one of 661 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 1: the most famous presidents to die in office, to be assassinated, 662 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: John F. Kennedy. John Fitzgerald Kennedy in nineteen sixty. He's 663 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: really interesting in terms of election because he's a president 664 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 1: at the dawn of what we could call the entertainment age, right, 665 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,399 Speaker 1: you know, this is the famous presidential debate where people 666 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,800 Speaker 1: listening on the radio thought Nixon one, and people watching 667 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: television thought Kennedy one. He's kind of a celebrity, sort 668 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: of a proto Kardashian already when he is elected president. 669 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's definitely a lot of theater involves, and not 670 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 2: the same kind of theater that that ended up taking 671 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 2: Lincoln's life. This is very much a public kind of 672 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:14,400 Speaker 2: persona era, you know, because of the nature of television broadcasts. 673 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and because of this dual existence as an American 674 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: celebrity and as an American statesman, he occupies very unique 675 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: place in the mythos of the US. Now, if you 676 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,800 Speaker 1: look at just the boxes you want to tick for president, 677 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 1: he's he's got everything right. He's he's a Massachusetts boy. 678 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 1: He graduates from Harvard, He's in the Navy, he sees 679 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,359 Speaker 1: combat in World War Two. He comes up working as 680 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: a Democratic Boston area congressman. He moves up to the Senate. 681 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: He's a blue blood, so he knows the people in power. 682 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: He's intimately related with their families. He becomes a vice president, 683 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 1: or he's nominee for the VP position in nineteen fifty six, 684 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,719 Speaker 1: doesn't work out. Eisenhower wins reelection and then he gets 685 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: in a high profile contest against Eisenhower's VP, Richie Nixon. 686 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,320 Speaker 1: Oh Richie, boy, there's the debate. 687 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:16,799 Speaker 2: Yeah. 688 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 1: Oh, also people don't like him because he's Catholic. 689 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 2: Oh that's a big deal, right. Yeah. We didn't even 690 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 2: think about that as being an issue necessarily, but at 691 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 2: the time it was super divisive. He did win by 692 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,399 Speaker 2: a pretty narrow margin in the popular vote and became 693 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 2: the first, very first, as you say, Roman Catholic president, 694 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,879 Speaker 2: and his relatively short time I mean not as short 695 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:38,959 Speaker 2: as some of the presidents on our list, but still 696 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 2: pretty short time in office. It was a very important 697 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 2: time in American history. We had things like the Bay 698 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 2: of Pigs, the beginning of the Vietnam War, the Cuban 699 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,680 Speaker 2: Missile Crisis, of course, the civil rights movement, and he 700 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,320 Speaker 2: was at the center of all of this. Therefore, you know, 701 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,360 Speaker 2: at the center of a lot of very divisive historical 702 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 2: moments that kind of like stacked up upon one another. 703 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And he was beefed up heavily with the 704 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 1: CIA due to the rampant corruption of the CIA and 705 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: their ideological myopia. You can learn more about that and 706 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 1: the fantastic series with our pals Rob Ryder and Solidad 707 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 1: O'Brien called Who Killed JFK. For my money, it's the 708 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 1: best podcast out there about those events. 709 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 2: Heck, one of the best just sources out there. I 710 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 2: mean the level of research. There's stuff in that podcast 711 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 2: that you really haven't seen reported or discussed in the 712 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,719 Speaker 2: way that they report and discuss it just about anywhere else. 713 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,759 Speaker 1: And similar to other presidents on the comes to Curse list, 714 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,360 Speaker 1: he dies early in office. It's November twenty second, nineteen 715 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 1: sixty three. He is struck by assassin's bullets as his 716 00:44:54,719 --> 00:45:00,759 Speaker 1: motorcade strolls through Dallas. He's the youngest man elected pres Again, 717 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 1: that's an important distinction. Is also, as history proves, the 718 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:09,800 Speaker 1: youngest to die there are, so he's probably one of 719 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 1: the most famous. But there are a couple of other 720 00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,800 Speaker 1: things where people will tell you the curse was broken, 721 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 1: and one of those is Ronald Reagan. Let's flash back 722 00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 1: to Let's flash back to the times when Ronald Reagan 723 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 1: could remember he was president. 724 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 2: That's right on February sixth, nineteen eleven. He is born 725 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:38,800 Speaker 2: to Nell and John Reagan in Tampico, Illinois. As we know, 726 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 2: he was kind of really more so, I would say 727 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 2: even than Kennedy. He was our really first kind of 728 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,880 Speaker 2: celebrity president because he was, in fact, much like a 729 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,400 Speaker 2: lot of the politicians that we're seeing in this whatever 730 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:55,360 Speaker 2: era we're in right now, an actor, a public figure 731 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,160 Speaker 2: unrelated to politics, who then was able to capitalize on 732 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:04,279 Speaker 2: that notaray and parlay that into a victory in the 733 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 2: public service. 734 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 1: People tell me is an absolute snack pack. 735 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 2: Real smoke shot. 736 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,239 Speaker 1: And what campaigns are learning at this point, or what 737 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 1: the king makers in the US are learning, is that 738 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: they can leverage parasocial relationships. The average American voter is 739 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 1: not going to know a ton about policy. They're going 740 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 1: to vote for someone that they see themselves in, someone 741 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,040 Speaker 1: that seems familiar, someone that they think they could hang 742 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,799 Speaker 1: out with. And so Ronald Reagan, despite not being qualified 743 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 1: as qualified as many other presidential candidates, he is much 744 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:41,520 Speaker 1: more recognizable. 745 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,160 Speaker 2: It goes back to that quote, I'm now it's giving 746 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,680 Speaker 2: me which president. This is associated with the idea of 747 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 2: he looks like a president. You know, not only am 748 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 2: I a president, but I also play one on TV? 749 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,839 Speaker 2: You know. I mean, that's like we're starting to see 750 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,200 Speaker 2: that that capital, that social capital, and that parasocial relationship 751 00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 2: you're talking about Ben is almost more more important to 752 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:05,480 Speaker 2: the king makers than actual political savvy and or qualifications. 753 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:07,920 Speaker 3: And it's interesting because it's like this popped my head 754 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 3: when y'all were talking about this. But it's like if 755 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,120 Speaker 3: you really look at like William Henry Harrison when we 756 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 3: started this episode of it's like, hey, this guy might 757 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,120 Speaker 3: not be a good president, but you know what he 758 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,560 Speaker 3: did this popular thing which in that time was killing 759 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 3: Laty of America. But it's kind of like throughout this history, 760 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,640 Speaker 3: it's just it might look different, but it's the same 761 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:27,440 Speaker 3: thing that are getting these people elected. 762 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:32,279 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And so it's a good observation. Also, he 763 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:38,040 Speaker 1: apparently breaks the curse because he is the governor of 764 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,840 Speaker 1: California and he gets re elected in nineteen seventy. In 765 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, some members of our audience may recall, Ronald 766 00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,560 Speaker 1: Reagan becomes the president. This point we got to talk 767 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 1: a little bit about the curse because, as you may remember, folks, 768 00:47:53,640 --> 00:48:00,120 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan almost got assassinated. John Hinckley Junior attack to 769 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,360 Speaker 1: Reagan in the while leaving the Hilton Hotel in DC. 770 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,480 Speaker 1: Hinkley fires a twenty two caliber revolver at the President, 771 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,640 Speaker 1: he does hit him. Reagan is wounded indirectly. A bullet 772 00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,439 Speaker 1: ricochets off the limo and it hits him right under 773 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 1: the left, right under the left armpit. And then there 774 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,399 Speaker 1: are other I think there are three other people who 775 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,680 Speaker 1: are wounded during the shooting. And because of the high 776 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: energy and the chaos and all the you know, ur 777 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:35,640 Speaker 1: endorphins are flowing and stuff, Reagan doesn't even notice that 778 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,000 Speaker 1: he's been shot until he starts to cough up blood. 779 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,879 Speaker 2: But he recovers this assassin too. Just as a side note, 780 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,480 Speaker 2: wasn't he the guy who's obsessed with the actor Jody Foster? 781 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,279 Speaker 1: I believe that's correct. 782 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,040 Speaker 2: And then I think partly he was doing this to 783 00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:52,000 Speaker 2: like impress her. 784 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, he also I'm still in the dark about this. 785 00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,600 Speaker 1: I don't know how it happened. But he's no longer 786 00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,920 Speaker 1: in jail. Binky had the juice to get out of 787 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:03,920 Speaker 1: jail for trying to kill the president. 788 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:05,200 Speaker 2: How does that work? 789 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:06,440 Speaker 1: He has a YouTube channel. 790 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,440 Speaker 2: Could good on him? He sim of his YouTube dollars. 791 00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,720 Speaker 1: He's a musician. He went on tour. I think replaces 792 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:15,759 Speaker 1: that's right, But. 793 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,480 Speaker 2: Some of his dates had been canceled because it's just 794 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,080 Speaker 2: being a little a little problematic, perhaps, you know, to 795 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,480 Speaker 2: capitalize in the notoriety of being someone that attempted to 796 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:27,280 Speaker 2: kill the president. 797 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,279 Speaker 1: But how did he get out? That's I feel like 798 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,400 Speaker 1: that's a one way ticket up the river for the 799 00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:33,120 Speaker 1: rest of your life. 800 00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,720 Speaker 2: One would think he must have some friends in high places. 801 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,880 Speaker 3: According to his work at Pedia page twenty sixteen, a 802 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 3: feral judge rule that Hinckley could be released from psychiatric care. 803 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,840 Speaker 1: Right, but he got into psychiatric care because he had 804 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 1: very good, expensive lawyers. I'm just saying the thing is fishy. Yeah, agreed. Yeah, 805 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:52,840 Speaker 1: but Reagan survives. 806 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,800 Speaker 2: He does survive, He recovers fully and returns to the 807 00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:01,279 Speaker 2: White House after twelve days away. And I think that 808 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:06,760 Speaker 2: some of this plays into some of the political fiction 809 00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:08,640 Speaker 2: of Aaron Sorkin. 810 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, shout out West wing Uh. And with this, 811 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,760 Speaker 1: the not not just the belief in t comes his curse, 812 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:21,600 Speaker 1: but its hold over the American public is broken. George W. 813 00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:26,680 Speaker 1: Bush Uh never gets assassinated. A guy throws shoes at 814 00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,360 Speaker 1: him once, and that's in Middle Eastern culture. You have 815 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,320 Speaker 1: to realize that the shoe was picked on purpose, because 816 00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:34,239 Speaker 1: it's wearing. 817 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,480 Speaker 3: A rabbit hole in that Yeah, that guy. That guy 818 00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:37,160 Speaker 3: is interesting. 819 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:38,120 Speaker 1: He's fascinating. 820 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,040 Speaker 2: Well, it's also interesting is in that clip the way 821 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,400 Speaker 2: that Bush ducks that shie. 822 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:47,880 Speaker 3: By the second By the second one he's actually laughing 823 00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:49,200 Speaker 3: at which is because. 824 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,840 Speaker 1: He realizes it's not a gun or a bomb. But also, 825 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,880 Speaker 1: you know, George W. Bush is very interesting because he 826 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:59,239 Speaker 1: is a blue blood from Connecticut who managed to successfully 827 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:05,080 Speaker 1: impersonate an awe shucks Texan like with the with the 828 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 1: commitment of the to the bit that would make Andy 829 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:10,000 Speaker 1: Kaufman not an. 830 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,480 Speaker 2: Approval completely agree, nodding in approval over here. 831 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,400 Speaker 1: Paint No, he does he his bathtub painting. 832 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,800 Speaker 2: Is It is interesting too, how because of the perhaps 833 00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:26,840 Speaker 2: even more egregious behavior of subsequent presidents that his legacy 834 00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,440 Speaker 2: has sort of been reevaluated in a lot of ways, 835 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:33,280 Speaker 2: Like George W. Bush is not seen as the warmongering 836 00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:35,560 Speaker 2: sociopath that he was at the time. 837 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,000 Speaker 1: You know, don't don't worry. 838 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,239 Speaker 3: There is some subtle knocks I have on him in 839 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,280 Speaker 3: an upcoming brief we're talking about his painting. 840 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,200 Speaker 1: He does a lot of he does you have to 841 00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,239 Speaker 1: say it. He does a lot of charitable work. But 842 00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,759 Speaker 1: then you if you are someone who is a bit 843 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:54,080 Speaker 1: more conspiratorial minded like me, I'm fine, I am self 844 00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:59,239 Speaker 1: aware here. Uh, you could ask how much of a 845 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 1: president he has actually was and combarrassed to Dick Cheney 846 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,440 Speaker 1: by far the most powerful VP of American history. 847 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:06,360 Speaker 2: Power behind the throne. 848 00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,360 Speaker 3: He was very much the police Clap of presidents. And 849 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,160 Speaker 3: I know Plice Clap was his brother, but still I 850 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,520 Speaker 3: think police clap is so cringe and that it affects 851 00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:15,959 Speaker 3: the whole family. 852 00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,720 Speaker 1: It's still very, very difficult, of course to be president, 853 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,360 Speaker 1: especially in this entertainment age where the president is supposed 854 00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:26,279 Speaker 1: to be seen as a celebrity as much as a 855 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,600 Speaker 1: master of state craft. And it's a very sad thing. 856 00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,279 Speaker 1: But I think at this point, what we're proving is 857 00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,880 Speaker 1: that in the case of every president who is alleged 858 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,240 Speaker 1: to have died as a result of to comes his curse, 859 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,480 Speaker 1: what we see is the idea of the curse. Is 860 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:48,480 Speaker 1: the idea of the curse is often applied in retrospect, 861 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,840 Speaker 1: and there are a couple times where it appears that 862 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:56,120 Speaker 1: someone predicted it. I think in nineteen sixty a journalist 863 00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:02,799 Speaker 1: named Ed Cortoba or Coderba hinted about this president's dying 864 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,520 Speaker 1: at twenty year intervals in office, and that came true 865 00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:11,760 Speaker 1: when Roosevelt died and when Kennedy was assassinated. However, given 866 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:17,360 Speaker 1: the ratio of deaths in the presidential office, the odds 867 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,080 Speaker 1: are pretty favorable. You know what I mean. This is 868 00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:23,720 Speaker 1: a game that you could gamble on and seem somewhat 869 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:25,319 Speaker 1: prescient by acting. 870 00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, completely agree. Now, it makes a lot of 871 00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,279 Speaker 2: sense that this would be something that would captivate the 872 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:35,360 Speaker 2: public imagination, and you know, in no small part because 873 00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,320 Speaker 2: of you know, the press and the way it was 874 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,799 Speaker 2: chosen to be reported, and this. 875 00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:46,320 Speaker 1: Idea of this idea of hexing and curses and so on, 876 00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:52,879 Speaker 1: it originates again in the exoticization of Native American communities, 877 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,920 Speaker 1: and the reason they were exoticized so much is to 878 00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,279 Speaker 1: further rationalize the horrible way they were treated by the 879 00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,840 Speaker 1: American govern from it makes someone seem less human, and 880 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,400 Speaker 1: then the things you do to them are therefore less 881 00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:06,600 Speaker 1: in humane. 882 00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,560 Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And again we talked about how it 883 00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:16,759 Speaker 2: was a very proactive choice to call this to comes 884 00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,680 Speaker 2: this curse and not like the curse of the prophet. 885 00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:24,360 Speaker 2: And I'm sorry, I keep having a hard time. It's tenskwatawas. 886 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,840 Speaker 2: Maybe he doesn't have the same ring to it. He 887 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:30,000 Speaker 2: was not considered to be as important a figure as 888 00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,560 Speaker 2: to comes to. Therefore, revisionist history prevails. 889 00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,600 Speaker 3: Especially because that's not even his real name. He changed 890 00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:36,920 Speaker 3: his name as an adult. 891 00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,759 Speaker 1: Right right. His real name was Dave Davidson. 892 00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:44,480 Speaker 2: The third True Facts, True Facts, also the first American meteorologist. 893 00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,759 Speaker 1: No one fact checked us on any of that, by 894 00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,040 Speaker 1: the way, Thank you very much. Speaking of thank you, 895 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:52,680 Speaker 1: thanks again to our super producer and research associate for 896 00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,200 Speaker 1: this episode, mister Max Williams. 897 00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:59,000 Speaker 2: Alex Williams, who composed this banging theme that you hear 898 00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,000 Speaker 2: in your very ear right now. Christopherrasciotis, Eves, Jeff Cots, 899 00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:04,840 Speaker 2: Gabe Luesier. 900 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,600 Speaker 1: Yeah here in spirit, Gabe Lucier, How you doing, Gabe 901 00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,359 Speaker 1: Hope tuning in? Shout out to his show This day 902 00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:16,280 Speaker 1: in History Class. Big thanks to sort of the Ronald 903 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,719 Speaker 1: Reagan of our podcast, Jonathan Strickland, he'll love that one. 904 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:21,600 Speaker 1: And of course A J. 905 00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,960 Speaker 2: Bahama's Jacobs and no big, big thanks to you man. 906 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,600 Speaker 2: This was this was a good two partner. I really 907 00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:32,000 Speaker 2: enjoyed this couldn't agree more. Thanks to you as well, Ben. 908 00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:34,960 Speaker 2: Thanks to you out there, ridiculous historians. We'll see you 909 00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:44,840 Speaker 2: next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 910 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,080 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 911 00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:48,840 Speaker 2: favorite shows.