WEBVTT - The Future King and The Greek Tragedy 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:05.640 The Dream Team Tapes Season two, Kobe, Lebron and the 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:10.320 Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:26.639 with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:29.200 the honor of representing the United States in the two 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:36.240 thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:37.920 look forward to this for a while, you know it 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:39.920 to be in this position now here we don't represent 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:47.080 our country, especially especial Lebron James. We look for an 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:49.000 opportunity of the weekend on a flam and being the 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:51.080 best in the world. I guess the Redeem Team is 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.440 it is right, We're the best team in the world. 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:56.960 We're the best team in the world. We put Basketball 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:19.320 America Basketball Wheal defeat, which is at the toime. I'm 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.479 Jack mccalluman. Welcome to episode three of The Dream Team 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:27.560 Tape Season two, Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team. This 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:30.160 is a sequel to my podcast last year called The 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.360 Dream Team Tape, but it's about another kind of dream team, 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:36.200 the one that followed the Michael Magic Larry Immortals by 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.319 sixteen years, the one that earned a gold medal in 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:44.640 Beijing after our international basketball fortunes had fallen so drastically 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.640 in the early part of the century. Now, in our 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:51.240 last episode, co host j Dandie talked about Kobe Bryant alone, 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:53.880 both who became part of the pack that one goal. 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.760 This episode is about the Redeemed team's other alpha dog. That, 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.760 by the way, is the term by Jason Kidd, who 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.120 became the veteran leader of the team. Team. It's about 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:09.280 that other alpha dogs. Eventful high school career, is eventful 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:14.080 drafting into the NBA, and his eventful and disappointing adventure 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:16.840 with the two thousand four Olympic team. We're calling it 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.960 the Future King and the Greek Tragedy. Now, we've alluded 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.760 several times to Kobe being a kind of lone wolf. 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.400 The song Solitary Man would fit him. The song I'm 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.960 choosing for Lebron is going back in time a little 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.280 bit to the Shangra Laws, a great girl group from 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:36.640 the early sixties, which was before j A was born. 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:39.280 But I remember him, of course. I wonder j D 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.560 have any idea about who the Shangra Laws are. I'm 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.920 not really up on the same laws. I love sixties music, right, 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:51.520 especially motown Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gay, Beatles, Only Stones. I'm 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.160 not too up on the same Glas though, well there's 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:56.280 no reason you should be. I'm not really. But they 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.880 had this one memorable song called the Leader of the Path, 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:04.040 and you know, had the motorcycle booming in the beginning, 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:06.040 and I assume that's the one, you know, you know, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.000 the leader of the Pack. Yeah, I do know that, 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:10.120 so I just didn't know who's saying. Well, that's probably 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:11.960 the only thing that Shining Laws ever did. But I 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.360 think of that, and it brings me around to Lebron 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.960 and how he differs from Kobe. Lebron was a leader 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.079 of the pack. He always had his guys around him. 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:24.600 He was an inclusive guy. There's a lot of charming 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.520 clips of Lebron from his high school days going up 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.400 to the podium after he scored thirty five points and 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:34.040 got twenty eight rebounds, and always he drags along the 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.640 other four starters to the podium with him for a 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.160 press conference. He looks like their father in some ways. 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.320 But I found it very endearing and a real contrast 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.360 with Kobe, who was not at all like that exactly. 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.400 And of course a big part of the lebron story 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.200 goes on to become how he empowered his childhood friends, right, 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:56.160 guys like Maverick Carter, Rich Paul, Randy Mimms. They all 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.200 became big players in the NBA world. Now. Maverick Carter 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:01.800 became a big orketing guy. Ridge, Paul's an agent, very 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:06.520 powerful agent. And Lebron always craved the group and the inclusiveness, 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.040 and that was very different from Kobe. Kobe was off 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.360 on his own, as we talked about in the last episode, 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.480 and at times that was viewed as a detriment for Lebron, 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.960 that he was too deferential. For example, I think especially 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.839 earlier in his career during the two thousand and seven playoffs, 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:23.880 when there was a critical moment a playoff game and 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.760 instead of taking a shot, Lebron passes to Danielle Marshall, 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.640 and Marshall takes and mrs the three pointer. And I 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:31.880 was thinking, if that had come along a couple years later, 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:34.880 in the heart of the social media era, Danielle Marshall 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.280 would have been trending all because of lebron is and 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.360 people saying how could Lebron pass to Danielle Marshall there? 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.640 But Lebron always wanted to make the right basketball play 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.080 right even if that meant had passed. And he also 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.040 wanted to make sure that everyone is a part of 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.920 his family, his extended family, including his friends, that they 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:56.800 were all included. Going back to Lebron's early days, before 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.760 the America really truly knew him, the hoop Heeds did, 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.279 Let's take a listen to this story about Lebron's early career. 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:09.400 So it was early two thousand two when I pitched 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:14.560 doing a Sports Illustrated feature story on Lebron, and Lebron 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:18.200 was in his junior year in Akron in high school 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.000 and had really made a name for himself the previous 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:26.400 summer at the ABC D camp in New Jersey, and 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:32.000 that's when he basically became the number one player in 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.720 his class, but also in the class that was a 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.720 year older too. He was the best high school prospect 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:43.760 anyone had seen essentially in a very long time, and 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:50.640 so the timing seemed right to do a story on him. Now. 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:52.880 That was the voice of Grant Wall, who was a 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.279 writer colleague of mine at Sports Illustrated. Grant was a 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.400 soccer specialist who nevertheless had been intrigued by tales of 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.920 this superstar kid. Now, I was kind of like I 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.240 was the old fashioned painting the ass back then. I 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.760 didn't think we should put young kids on the cover. 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.600 I was busy covering the NBA, and though I had 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.640 heard about Lebron, I didn't scour the internet like a 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:18.359 lot of people. And I'm going, what do we We 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:20.480 have a lot of good NBA stories, Why are we 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:25.120 doing this? High school could plus, over the years, Sports 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:29.440 Illustrated had wrecked the careers of so many phenomens. We 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:31.599 had a whole series of kids from high school we 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.120 put on the cover. They were the next somebody, and 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.560 we publicized them until they became the next nobody. Never 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:43.479 never mind college kids. Felipe Lopez, Sebastian Telfair, Johnny manziel 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.800 Toald Burinovich, Ryan Leaf. There were a whole bunch of 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.800 these players. I'm guessing, though, J you looked at it differently. 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.400 You probably said, I want to read more about this 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.200 kid from Akron exactly, Jack, And you know what, I'm thinking. 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.520 Part of that could be the influence of the ESPN 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.520 magazine that they came out in the mid nineties, and 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.000 their whole thing was next right on the cover of 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.720 their first issue was Kobe Bryant, among others. Rik Lynn 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.000 Ross was another one. I think Cordell Stewart, and one 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:11.960 didn't quite work out as well as the other ones. 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.120 I think a right alixid Reagus was another one. But 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.920 ESPN magazine came along and they were emphasizing next, next, next, 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.440 the next thing, and I'm wondering. Jack of Sports Illustrated 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.080 got caught up in that a little bit and said, Okay, 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:28.040 we'll show you next. This is gonna be the next superstar, 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.880 the chosen one. We're gonna put a high school player 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.280 on the cover of Sports Illustrated at a time when 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.239 the cover of Sports Illustrated was probably the most premium 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:40.520 real estate in the sports world. Yeah. But even as 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.640 Grant wall is about to tell us, even he was 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.080 worried about that phenomenal factor. I mean, I covered Treddy 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.160 It Dude as well, so on the soccer side, and 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:53.520 so I was part of that tradition of screwing up penoms. 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:55.760 If you couldn't quite think that. Grant was talking about 0:07:55.760 --> 0:08:00.400 Freddie a Do who Sports Illustrated had had managed to 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:04.200 put on the cover when he was fourteen, proclaiming him 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:07.600 the next Pelee. He was not the next Pale. I'm 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:09.720 not sure who he was the next one off, but 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.520 I did check. By the way, Jay and Freddie has 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:16.560 three d and thirty thousand Twitter followers, though I'm not 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:20.120 sure what they're following. But anyway, j what do you 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:24.120 remember about hearing about this kid from Akron, about the 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.640 young Lebron, about the next I don't know who we 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:32.400 said he was. He was so physically manifest and developed 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:36.319 that we he wasn't. He wasn't painted as the next Magic, 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:39.600 for the next Jordan. He was really in his own class. 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:43.120 But I think those Jordan comparisons came though, because if 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.080 you were going to talk about someone destined to be 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.360 the greatest, well, Jordan was still hanging over the league, 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.880 even though I think he just had a second retirement, 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.120 but it was still Jordan was the standard, right, So 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.200 if you're gonna be the next in basketball, you're gonna 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:01.360 be the next Jordans. And I wanted in on the hype. 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.520 I remember watching on ESPN when It's high school games 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.280 were shown on ESPN, and I'm someone that doesn't like 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.960 to see young people, teenagers and even preteens showing on 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.360 national TV. I'm really opposed to the televisition of the 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:16.640 Little League World Series. I don't think we should see 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.760 those little kids on national television, especially if they're crying, 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:21.880 you know. But with Lebron, I wanted to see what 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.360 the hype was about. Yeah, I don't want to see that. Well, 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.640 the thing was Lebron was unlikely to cry, and he 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:29.960 came and played in Polly Pavilion. It was it was 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:34.280 an event Lebron played Sebastian Telfare was in that. It 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.920 was a high school. Remember, they played all over the country, 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.240 and I was a little more uncomfortable with that. The 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.720 fact that they were taking these kids and traveling them 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.240 all around the country. I was a little more uncomfortable 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.160 with that than the fact that they were actually showing 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.360 their games on television. Why was Lebron from Akron, Ohio 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.320 playing a game in Polly Pavilion in Los Angeles? So 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:56.400 Graham talked about a number of things in that story 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:00.320 about Lebron at St. Vincent St. Mary Why away, I 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.480 wonder a high school that uh is lucky enough to 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.240 have Lebron? Why they need two saints in their nickname. 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:10.640 But anyway, it becomes clear to Grant that wherever Lebron 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:14.320 goes his boys the Lebron Airs, if you want to 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:16.880 call them, they're going to go. And where they went 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:20.680 was to a Cavalier basketball game, where of course the 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:24.960 soon to be king meets the reigning king who was 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:27.760 then in his final season, and Grant picks up that 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:32.280 story so literally the first day that I arrived in 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:38.400 Akron and went to his team's practice and talked to 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:42.840 him briefly after that practice, it was clear that he 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:46.000 and his buddies, including Maverick Carter, We're gonna go up 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:49.920 an hour from Acron to Cleveland that night for the 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:54.520 NBA game between the Cavaliers and Michael Jordan's Washington Wizards. 0:10:54.640 --> 0:11:00.160 And I'm looking for good access, and so as part 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.719 of my pitch to Lebron, I was like, can I go? 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:06.160 Can I drive you guys in my crappy rental car 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.839 up to Cleveland and just be a fly on the wall, 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:14.360 And thankfully they said yes. So we end up going 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:18.800 to Akron, stuffed about Lebron and Maverick and a couple 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:22.800 of other friends in my rental car and we watched 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:27.800 this game. Lebron is rooting for Jordan's big Jordan guy 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.760 not reading for the Cavs and Jordan hits a buzzer 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:35.160 beater to win, which is pretty great. And so I 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:40.880 remember after the game, Lebron and Maverick said, we're talking 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.680 about this guy that kept calling Uncle West. I'm like, 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.920 whose Uncle West? And it turns out it's William Wesley 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:52.680 Worldwide West. My first ever experience with the guy, this 0:11:53.360 --> 0:12:00.720 amazingly well dressed, bald guy who brings Michael out. And 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:04.080 it was clear also that Jordan was in recruiting mode 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.360 because he was trying to get Lebron to sign for Nike. 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:12.040 UM got to build a relationship with Lebron, and Maverick 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.760 ended up going to Lebron's apartment in West Akron where 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.360 there was a a on the TV. There was a 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.680 fake Sports Illustrated somebody had made for with Lebron on 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.240 the cover. Is like, is he the next Michael Jordan's 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.599 You know that ends up in the story. UM. I 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:30.920 remember Lebron communicating with Sebastian Telfare on his two way 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.600 pager in the car on the drive, and I remember 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:40.840 Lebron bringing this big notebook full of CDs out, so 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:44.520 he was like the DJ and it was just a 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.160 lot of good stuff. Nothing much has to be explained 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.439 in that j A except you're the one better than 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.800 me to explain Worldwide West to everyone. But I'm not 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:58.880 sure Worldwide West is explicable. I can't tell you how, 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.960 where or when I got to know him. I just did. 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.840 And that fits his profile because he kind of just is. 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:09.120 He's there, And by there, I mean everywhere wherever you go. 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:11.800 It seems like world Wide West would show up. So 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.960 NBA Playoffs, you're in Miami, or you're in Chicago, and 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:18.800 there's West. Of course, with full access everything that you 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.400 get with the media credential West has and and West 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.200 is somebody that I think he first got into the 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:29.120 basketball world through Milt Wagner and Louisville. I think Rip 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.040 Hamilton he was a Rip Hamilton connection too. No, but well, 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.240 but it goes, it goes way earlier than that. And 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.320 also he was hanging out in Miami with like the 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:40.360 Michael Irvin and the you back in the days that 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:44.000 the Miami football team, and so through that he got 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.360 to hang out with the Dallas Cowboys like you'll see 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:51.040 him on the sidelines or in the stands or courtside 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.959 throughout all these periods at the infamous Malice in the Palace, 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.480 he's there helping get guys off the court. There's where 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:02.560 like West is everywhere. Um, he's a confidante. He's an advisor. 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.280 You know you're Lebron called him Uncle West. He's a connector, 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.760 I'd say a facilitator. Those are some of his greatest assets. 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.440 Is that he's so plugged into everyone and so he 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.120 can help you get from this place to that place, 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.600 help this person meet that person. And he's just someone 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.560 who's everywhere and yet nowhere because you can't pin him down. Um, 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.160 he's really I think something that could kind of only 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.600 exist in the NBA. Is one of my favorite NBA figures, 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.400 even if he's one of the least understood NBA figures. 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:33.640 He's like so many people. He manages to be famous 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:35.800 for being famous, you know, which is pretty good to 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.160 art anyway. So that this was all during his junior year, 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.440 Lebron turned to his senior year just keeps getting better 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.880 and better. And here's one of his future Redeemed team teammates, 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:50.320 Darren Williams, who himself was a high school star back 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.480 when Lebron had acorn rolling for something other than Goodyear tires. 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.600 Of course I had already you know, heard heard all 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.200 the hype and you know, had read about him and 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.000 you know, seen highlights on the internet, but I never 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.400 played against him. Um, and then I saw him. I 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.240 think the first time I saw him was in l A. 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.000 He's playing for like the Oakland Soldiers, and uh, it 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.480 was like him and Leon Poe on the same team 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.120 and they were just dominant, and I was definitely impressed. 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.480 And then I went to ABC D camp that summer 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:21.640 and and saw him again there and saw him and 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.400 Carmelo go against each other, Lenny Cook, um, all the 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.520 guys that you know, they were they were talking about 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:28.760 this being the next ones and so um, that's kind 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:30.880 of my my first experience with him. Well, when you're 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.320 a good player, also, do you look at it the 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.720 same way we do, like, oh that is the next one? 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.640 Or do you go not that? Where do you see 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.360 something with Lebron? Like right away? That pretty much I 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:44.600 think I saw some with him. You know, you could 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:46.440 tell that he was gonna be special. Of course, nobody, 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:48.920 nobody knew this. Who could have predicted, you know, he 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.320 was gonna be this, you know, especially at thirty six 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:53.160 and I don't think anybody could have predicted this this 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:57.320 type of future. Interestingly, Darren mentioned two other players in there, 0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:59.880 Leon Powell and Lenny Cook, who were in some quarters 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.080 considered as good as Lebron. They turned out more to 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:07.920 be cautionary tales. You're listening to Kobe Lebron and the 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:19.000 redeem Team. We'll be back in a minute. So by 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.840 the time Lebron is a senior even you know, I've 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.000 come around and say, this guy is marvelous. This guy 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:30.520 is the number one. This guy I thought projected as 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:35.640 clear a number one pick as anyone since Magic in 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:40.560 nineteen seventy nine. Remember, Bird had already been selected territorially 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:47.360 back in and maybe shack in two ahead of Latener. 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.080 But Donde tells me that that's not really the case. 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.400 There was some debate, and I remember speaking to at 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:58.400 least one and then probably even two uh NBA executives 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.720 who would have taken Carmelo Anthony if they had the 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.560 number one pick. And the thought behind that was we'd 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:08.200 seen Carmelo succeed at the highest level available to him, 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:10.600 which was the Antila Bay Tournament. Re member one year 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.000 at Syracuse, he leads Syracuse and Jim Beheim to its 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.399 first his first national championship. Despite all the great teams 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:20.280 Beheim had had, he never had a national champion until 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.520 Carmelo comes along. And we'll hear the pride that Beheim 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.280 takes in Carmelo throughout this uh this podcast series. There 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:31.080 forever bonded. But Carmelo was somewhat of a made man 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.240 because of that, and there was some thought that, well, Lebron, 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:36.359 as great as he is, he's playing against high school guys. 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.199 We don't necessarily know what he can do if you 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.159 asked him to step up another level. We've seen Carmelo 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.600 succeed at the highest level available to him. So there 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:48.000 was some thought. I'm trying to think of examples. I'm 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:49.560 sure sure there were. Lou El sind Or at u 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:53.679 c l A. But that guy dragged Syracuse to the 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.720 n c A championship. Man, I mean, he was a 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.679 serious guy during there. But nevertheless, comes a moment in 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:05.399 New York with the late great David Stern announces with 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:09.639 the first pick in the two thousand and three NBA Draft, 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:19.560 the Cleveland Cavaliers select Lebron James. By that time, Lebron 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.119 and Carmelo they played against each other in high school. 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.560 They recognize that they are, you know, the next two 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:29.000 big things in whatever order that might be. And they're 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:31.040 both in New York ready to go one too in 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.680 the draft and create a new storyline and a kind 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:39.000 of rust belt rivalry between Cleveland and Detroit. And here's 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.840 Carmelo talking about it. There's a picture of like me 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.680 and Lebron. I'm laying over tell you at the chip, 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.080 like Lebron, we're facing like each other. But with that 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:49.920 conversation was you know, you're about to go to Cleveland 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.040 and he's like, man, you're about to go to Detroit. 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:54.320 Like you You're about to be right there next to 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:56.960 It's like we're gonna be right next door to each other. 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:59.160 This is the new game. You know, We're the new 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:01.240 magic Bird. Like you know what I'm saying, Like that's 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.600 how we was thinking at that at that point in time, 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:05.800 because this we I mean, we had the hype coming 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:07.720 out of you know, me coming out of college, him 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.680 you know, being a number of high school player being drafted. 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:15.000 So we had that hype around us. And then as 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:18.680 he gets called, I get the call, my agent is dead, 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.120 just like Man's like Detroit is up next. You're like, Detroit, 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:26.199 chaking Darker. I'm like, what, yes, ladies and gentlemen, Darko 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:32.480 Milichick went second to Detroit, before Carmelo Anthony who was third, 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:36.880 before Chris Bosh who was fourth, and before Dwyane Wade 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.360 who was fifth. So that as fully as we said before, 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:45.000 that is one third of the kids who five years 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:50.560 later would be on the Redeemed team. But that draft, interestingly, 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.800 j A, that that gave us those guys. I think 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.760 that's probably ranked among the greatest drafts of all time. 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.200 Do you have any memories of other great drafts? It's 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:02.320 right up there. I mean, to me, I think the 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.840 standard has to be draft if nothing else, they gave 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.320 us Michael Jordan's, but also a Chemo La Juan h 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:14.760 Charles Barkley, John Stockton's in there as well. So if 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:19.879 you think about stocking Olympic teams, you've got Barkley, Jordan's 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.160 and John Stockton's. So there's a third of the two 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.399 Dream Team comes out of that one draft, similar to 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.199 the way that that two thousand three draft stocked the 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.639 Redeemed team. In two thousand eight, Yeah, another great draft 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.919 was your guy though, was was Kobe Kobe in nineties six. 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:39.200 You've got Kobe, You've got Ray Allen, You've got Steve Nash, 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.520 you got Iverson At the top of that A I 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:47.400 A I was right there, Pages Stoyokovic, Marcus Camby, Stefan Marbury, 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:50.040 a bunch of got Derek Fisher, you know who played 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:52.199 out and you watched for a hundred years when he 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:55.040 was in five championships with Kobe making jump shots out 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:57.480 in l A. But it was, it was a great draft. 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.359 You know What's funny, by the way, to me is 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:04.080 why maybe there was, but I don't remember, maybe because 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.280 nobody gives too much of a damn about Cleveland. But 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:10.399 was there ever examination of how Lebron got to Cleveland? 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.679 He had a twenty two remember you ing and the 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:17.840 New York conspiracy. Good old Lebron only had about a 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:23.080 chance of going to Cleveland. But nevertheless there he was. 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:28.159 And I don't think there has ever been one athlete, 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.440 correct me if I'm wrong, who has ever brought more 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.720 of a renaissance to one city? I mean Chicago. You know, 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:37.520 mikel went to Chicago. Chicago was already a pretty damn 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:42.480 great city, you know, el Jin Jerry West, Kareem Magic, 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.520 Kobe Later l A was a pretty good city too. 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.399 They had other stuff going on. Lebron to Cleveland that 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.199 set things off. Man, that was everything. Well, there is 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:55.919 that great YouTube video Cleveland Tourism Board or something like that. 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:59.200 It was like a mock Cleveland promotional video which really 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:01.880 pointed out all the things that were wrong with Cleveland. 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:03.720 But one of the lines in there is our economy 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:06.640 is built on Lebron James, and it was true. I mean, Jack, 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:09.000 what reason did you have to go to Cleveland before? Now? 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:10.760 They had a pretty good team in the nineties that 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.280 Michael Jordan's ended with a couple of well placed and 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:17.560 well timed shots. So they were on the rise in 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:22.600 the nineties, but or the early nineties. But then the 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:25.719 football team leaves to go to Baltimore, right, and so 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:28.840 then they they're they're blessed with another team soon thereafter, 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:31.680 but they have to start from scratch all over again 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:34.359 with an expansion football team. The Indians went to the 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.639 World Series where a game away in ven I believe 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:39.760 it was from winning the World Series, but most of 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:42.560 the history of that franchise is won of utility. But 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:47.119 with Lebron. Cleveland was at the quickly became at the 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:51.679 center of the NBA. I was assigned, of course, to write. 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:54.760 I was on the beat then, and the big preseason 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:57.880 story was going to be Lebron, and I'm gonna tell 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:00.119 you about my interview session with him. But this is 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:02.840 what I wrote. One of the paragraphs I wrote in 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:07.240 the Lebron story. The Cleveland law firm that represents James 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:12.000 has pursued more than one thousand infringements on Lebron's name 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:13.840