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Speaker 1: Welcome into the Sharp Report. Boys and girls. My name

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Speaker 1: is Matt Perolt. You guys normally see me on the

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Speaker 1: Daily Juice podcast, but we did this about two years

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Speaker 1: ago where every month we had a conversation with insiders

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Speaker 1: in the industry to give you a look behind the

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Speaker 1: curtain as to how the industry is growing and where

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Speaker 1: the industry is going. This conversation is going to be

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Speaker 1: a lot of fun. Alex Kane is the CEO of

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Speaker 1: Sport Trade. Well, what is sport Trade. We'll get into

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Speaker 1: sport Trade. We'll get into the future of the industry

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Speaker 1: and take a look back as to where we are.

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Speaker 1: This company started in twenty seventeen, founded by Alex, one

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Speaker 1: year before the Supreme Court removed PASPA.

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Speaker 2: Where are we well, let's talk.

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Speaker 1: To Alex about the future of sports betting here on

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Speaker 1: the Sharp Report. Joining us now on the Sharp Report,

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Speaker 1: Alex Kine, CEO of Sport Trade. Alex, great to see you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for the time. I appreciate you coming on today.

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Speaker 3: What's up brother, Thanks so much for having me as always.

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Speaker 2: All right, so how did you get here?

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Speaker 1: For people who don't know your history in your background,

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Speaker 1: how did you become the CEO of one of the

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Speaker 1: more interesting sports betting companies in America.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, I was a student at Jaxon University. I've

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Speaker 3: studied finance, I studied business law. I didn't I wasn't

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Speaker 3: too familiar with betting, like you know, tangentially was involved,

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Speaker 3: but never really like had an account at like bodog

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Speaker 3: or bet DSi or whatever. And I felt that as

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Speaker 3: I learned more about sports betting, I learned more about

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Speaker 3: how people were using And this is back in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, and you I juxtaposed that versus with like

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Speaker 3: how robinhood felt as a user experience, like to log

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Speaker 3: in and see, okay, I'm worth five hundred and fifty

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Speaker 3: dollars because I deposited five hundred dollars last week and

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Speaker 3: I put it all on Apple and they're up ten

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Speaker 3: percent since they're earnings. Like that sort of UI and

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Speaker 3: UX felt super comfortable to me. I felt very approachable,

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Speaker 3: and I felt that sports betting could really benefit from

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Speaker 3: that sort of marketplace, a retail broker trading type interface.

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Speaker 3: And I think what great companies like Robin have proven

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Speaker 3: is you can take something very complicated like a stock

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Speaker 3: trade and make it simple. And I think what sports

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Speaker 3: trade has tried to do is take something like sports

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Speaker 3: betting and introduce a totally new way to think about

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Speaker 3: it in a much simpler lens. And so that's what

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Speaker 3: sports trade is. It's a prediction market. It allows you

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Speaker 3: to bet on and against sports outcomes using this like

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Speaker 3: probabilistic model. So just like looking at a random sporting event,

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Speaker 3: you might see that Scotty Scheffler has a twenty five

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Speaker 3: percent chance to win the US Open. So on sports trade,

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Speaker 3: you can take the yes side it's twenty five percent.

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Speaker 3: You're risking twenty five to win one hundred. You could

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Speaker 3: take the no side. You can risk seventy five to

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Speaker 3: win one hundred that he doesn't win. But the most

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Speaker 3: fun thing about sports trade is that once you have

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Speaker 3: that initial bet, let's say you put twenty five dollars

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Speaker 3: on Scotti schefferd win at twenty five percent odds. Each

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Speaker 3: putt he makes and misses, each dry hits their this

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Speaker 3: is the fair way the market is going to update

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Speaker 3: the probability of him to win, and it's going to

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Speaker 3: allow you to go back on sports rad and say,

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Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I bought him at twenty five. He

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Speaker 3: shot sixty six in the first round. He's at forty

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Speaker 3: five percent chance to win after just one round. Maybe

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Speaker 3: I want to sell him and you can do that.

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Speaker 3: So that's what sports rait is. It sort of tries

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Speaker 3: to blend the best parts about retail trading, retail brokerages,

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Speaker 3: and electronic exchanges to create this brand new version of

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Speaker 3: sports betting where your bet always has a liquid value

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Speaker 3: and you can get in or get out in an asime.

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Speaker 1: How do you guys see the future of this going,

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Speaker 1: because are we eventually going to get to the money

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Speaker 1: making portion of this, which is the parlay side of things,

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Speaker 1: and that's going to be And we saw a report

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Speaker 1: that came out from ingame dot com yesterday and we're

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Speaker 1: taping this here on the thirtieth of May in which

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Speaker 1: they did a whole analysis of Calshie's handle and what

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Speaker 1: their overall influence is. And from a revenue standpoint, they're

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Speaker 1: about a half a percent right now because they're not

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Speaker 1: offering what FANDUL and DraftKings are making most of their

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Speaker 1: money on, which is same game parlays.

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Speaker 2: In parlays in general.

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Speaker 1: Do we see prediction markets is sport trade looking out

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Speaker 1: a way to try to find how you can include

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Speaker 1: a parlay side of this business.

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Speaker 3: I think eventually, I think one of the great things

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Speaker 3: about prediction markets is as the marketplace we're not We're

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Speaker 3: trying to build a brand new way of thinking about

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Speaker 3: sports betting, and currently the way sports betting has existed,

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Speaker 3: Like if you go back to twenty nineteen and you

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Speaker 3: were to plot the sort of whole percentage, so how

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Speaker 3: much the books keep as a function of what was

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Speaker 3: bet with them over time, you'd see that. You know,

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Speaker 3: back in twenty nineteen, before the same game parlay really

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Speaker 3: took a lot of notoriety, the hold was like six percent,

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Speaker 3: and then it was seven in twenty twenty, and then

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Speaker 3: it was eight nine. Now it's close to ten to

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Speaker 3: eleven percent hold. I think prediction markets are going to

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Speaker 3: reverse that trend that like, if you really want to

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Speaker 3: create an industry that's like better for the consumer and

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Speaker 3: is truly sustainable, we need to have that ten percent

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Speaker 3: go and asymptotically approach one percent for as crazy as

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Speaker 3: that sounds, which I think is going to be a

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Speaker 3: shock to the system. It's going to be shocked to

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Speaker 3: so many parts of the ecosystem. Not the least to

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Speaker 3: which of these incumbent operators, because yes, over time, you know,

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Speaker 3: prediction market can start with who's going to win the game,

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Speaker 3: who's going to cover the spread. These are singular outcomes

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Speaker 3: where you can buy and sell throughout the game. But

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Speaker 3: just like in financial markets, there are more complex instruments

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Speaker 3: that aren't really traded the way that like IBM stock

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Speaker 3: or Raytheon's stock is traded on the Nasdaq Stock market.

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Speaker 3: There are a bit more what's called over the counter

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Speaker 3: products where a bank or an institution or an individual

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Speaker 3: comes to a venue and says, i'd like this somewhat

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Speaker 3: complex financial instrument. Maybe it's a yield curve sort of product.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it's an option product, maybe it's a future product.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it's a credit default swap. Is the movie Big

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Speaker 3: Short made very very famous. Those were not traded on

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Speaker 3: in exchange, Matt right, They were traded over the counter

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Speaker 3: and in this over the counter sort of construct. While

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Speaker 3: it's different from an exchange in that you're not able

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Speaker 3: to always see a bid in an offer price, it's

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Speaker 3: similar in that it's a marketplace and so there are

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Speaker 3: many different participants that can compete and have to compete

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Speaker 3: to offer the most competitive price so that the person

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Speaker 3: that's requesting this OTC product, whether it's a yield interest

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Speaker 3: rate curve or it's a credit default swap, or it's

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Speaker 3: a parlay on an event contract or a sports bet,

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Speaker 3: multiple market makers have to compete. And what's going to

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Speaker 3: end up happening is even for these parlays, the hold

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Speaker 3: is going to get driven down to a very very

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Speaker 3: very small number. And that is so great for consumers. Historically,

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Speaker 3: when we think about parlays, we think, well, oh, it's

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Speaker 3: a six leg saying game, probably it must have a

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Speaker 3: twenty percent hold. In this new world, ten years from now,

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Speaker 3: I think a six like parlay is going to have

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Speaker 3: a one person hold and and I think that's just

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Speaker 3: wonderful for consumers.

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Speaker 1: Before we go back, and I do want to take

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Speaker 1: a history lesson and jaunt back into pre PATSPA, into

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Speaker 1: the rollout of legalized sports gambling in America.

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Speaker 2: How does sport trade?

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Speaker 1: Where do you see sport trade factoring into the current

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Speaker 1: conversation with operators like cut and no vig who are

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Speaker 1: peer to peer, peer to peer exchanges, but aren't they're

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Speaker 1: not doing the same prediction market, but they are a

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Speaker 1: peer to peer exchange. Because is it fair to say

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Speaker 1: that essentially a sport prediction market is a peer to

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Speaker 1: peer exchange.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a very fair way to put it,

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Speaker 3: as long as we understand that peers can be anyone,

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Speaker 3: not just individual people. Peers can be market makers. Market

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Speaker 3: makers can be individuals, market makers can be entities and

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Speaker 3: groups of people. And I think what you're going to

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Speaker 3: find in this new entrepreneurial class of you know, the

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Speaker 3: late twenty twenties here is that there's gonna be so

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Speaker 3: many iterations of this marketplace construct because for this newer

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Speaker 3: generation and for my generation, like we came up with

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Speaker 3: the coinbases, with the robin hoods, with the weebles, with

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Speaker 3: the airbnbs, with the ubers, with the door bashes, with

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Speaker 3: this very the one common thread is that these are

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Speaker 3: all marketplaces. These are all places where there's not one,

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Speaker 3: you know, source of supply and many sources of demand.

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Speaker 3: It's the opposite. There's many sources of demand and there's

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Speaker 3: many sources of supply. It's a very very different business model.

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Speaker 3: And so I think you're just going to continuously see,

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Speaker 3: you know, when you see peer to peer prediction market

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Speaker 3: betting exchange. For the most part, they share more commonalities

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Speaker 3: more similarities than they do differences.

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Speaker 1: So le's take a step back here to twenty eighteen

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Speaker 1: to today. So we are in twenty twenty five. We

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Speaker 1: were only about seven years into this new world of

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Speaker 1: legalized sports gambling, or at least the option if you're

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Speaker 1: a state that wants to have legalized sports gambling. We

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Speaker 1: have now entered into this fifty state potential where Calshi

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Speaker 1: is opening up the idea that you don't have to

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Speaker 1: have an individual state give you a license. Now we're

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Speaker 1: talking about the entire country being wide open to a

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Speaker 1: new company that might be stepping into this field.

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Speaker 2: How would you.

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Speaker 1: Grade the rollout of legalized sports gambling in America and

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Speaker 1: what would you have done differently looking back now on

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Speaker 1: it if we could.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I'd probably give it somewhere in the range

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Speaker 3: of a C minus. You know, I think that the

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Speaker 3: problem is historically, Like if you take a step back,

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Speaker 3: like historically gambling is this industry that like really doesn't

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Speaker 3: play well with this concept of like open competition, Like

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Speaker 3: even when casinos have to like want to go and

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Speaker 3: operate in the state, like the state has to do

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Speaker 3: this massive study and they bring in an outside consultant.

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Speaker 3: They sort of understand, can the market sort of expand

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Speaker 3: to this, can it stomach this new competitor, What's going

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Speaker 3: to happen to existing competitors? And that's because like gambling

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Speaker 3: in the in the historical sense, has really just been

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Speaker 3: a transfer wealth from people that want to gamble to

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Speaker 3: like the state coffers in the form of tax revenue,

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Speaker 3: and and like that would never happen in another industry.

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Speaker 3: Like imagine in like the you know, the streaming business,

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Speaker 3: like Paramount wanted to like launch its new streaming business,

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Speaker 3: and like some federal regulators are like, oh, we have

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Speaker 3: to see how like Netflix feels about this, or you

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Speaker 3: see how you know, Hulu feels about this, like so

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Speaker 3: so so. Because of that, because of that sort of

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Speaker 3: natural upbringing of the way gambling from a land based

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Speaker 3: sense has always worked, that thought process crept in to

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Speaker 3: how online sports betting bills came to be. All of

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Speaker 3: these land based incumbents, including tracks tribes for the most part,

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Speaker 3: not really as much as casinos, teams and leagues, realized

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Speaker 3: that they could exert a lot of influence and put

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Speaker 3: their thumb on the scale to create what they thought

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Speaker 3: was the best version of sports betting, and spoiler alert,

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Speaker 3: that simply means the thing that was going to make

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Speaker 3: them the most amount of money. And so when all

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Speaker 3: these states came to be and all these bills started

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Speaker 3: to come forward, you realize looking back, they're all written

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Speaker 3: by casinos and leagues and teams and casino associations and

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Speaker 3: horse tracks, and it created these immense barriers to entry.

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Speaker 3: And you think about like the US market, and think

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Speaker 3: about how ubiquitous sports betting was even before PASPA, Like

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Speaker 3: it was a part of our fabric. People in the

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Speaker 3: ESPN talk about it, they say, oh, that was a

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Speaker 3: really important field goal there. Everyone knows what they're talking about.

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Speaker 3: There were still sports betting shows. Vegas was a destination

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Speaker 3: still is when we think about sports betting is a

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Speaker 3: part of who we were. So it's only inevitable that

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Speaker 3: countless American entrepreneurs are going to want to participate and

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Speaker 3: build their own operators, build their own sports books, build

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Speaker 3: their own exchanges, build their own DFS platforms. And unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: the reason I give it a C minus is that

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Speaker 3: those that had the most power at the time, in

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Speaker 3: the land based casinos. Sense wrote these bills in a

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Speaker 3: way that forced all those entrepreneurs offshore, and that's wrong,

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Speaker 3: and I think the better way to do it, to

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Speaker 3: answer the second path your question, would have been a

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Speaker 3: federal construct where you take all the power out of

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Speaker 3: the leagues and the teams, and to some extent, the

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Speaker 3: tribes really do have exclusivity. And that's really important, because

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Speaker 3: the federal government has an agreement with the tribes right now.

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Speaker 3: I think it's called agra to set on the side

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Speaker 3: for it for a second. The commercial casinos, the horse tracks,

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Speaker 3: these are all entities that should have to fairly compete

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Speaker 3: on level footing, as opposed to have inserted themselves as

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Speaker 3: the de facto gatekeepers in a lot of ways of

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Speaker 3: a lot of these markets. We see it all the time.

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Speaker 3: It's called market access. It's euphemistically sort of referred to

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Speaker 3: as and that simply means you got to pay a

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Speaker 3: casino to even then get a license to then operate,

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Speaker 3: to then pay a crap ton of money to acquire

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Speaker 3: customers and do all the really hard things. And so

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Speaker 3: that's wrong. It's so anti American. Regulatory captures anti American,

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Speaker 3: and in a lot of ways, this fifty state construct

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Speaker 3: that's now presented by the CFTC and Kalshie. While I

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Speaker 3: don't particularly agree with the way it's happened, I think

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Speaker 3: it presents a very nice counterbalance and a sledgehammer to

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Speaker 3: the proverbial glass construct that is the way sports betting

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Speaker 3: has come from zero states online to now thirty eight

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Speaker 3: states in some way, shape or form, because it's it's

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Speaker 3: just a construct, that is. I wrote a letter about this,

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Speaker 3: to open letter to regulators and legislatures. It's so anti American,

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Speaker 3: it's so anti consumer, it's so anti entrepreneur, it's so

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Speaker 3: anti innovator. It's really pro casino and pro multinational, big

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Speaker 3: conglomerates that can absorb all these high fees and access costs.

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Speaker 3: So that that's why I give it a C minus.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes I wake up and it's a D.

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Speaker 1: So I'm in Nevada, so obviously this has been sort

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Speaker 1: of the cradle of all of this.

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Speaker 2: But if I live in a state that has no.

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Speaker 1: Sports gambling regulated and it's all offshore and it's all

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Speaker 1: in the black market, is that better for the average gambler?

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Speaker 1: Not to say I want people offshore, but how do

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Speaker 1: you You mentioned the anti American situation. I spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of time in New Hampshire where there's a single operator,

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Speaker 1: or in Florida where there's a single operator. It's is

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Speaker 1: that even worse that we were, that we allowed states

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Speaker 1: to roll out and have a single operator, do a

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Speaker 1: deal with the state, and to have a monopoly.

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Speaker 3: It's it's horrible. It's just like so everything we're against

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Speaker 3: and and it's it's crony capitalism. It's the government choosing

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Speaker 3: winners and losers, and the consumer hurts. Because there's so

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Speaker 3: many different versions of this. Some of these versions are

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Speaker 3: so different that I do think they should be regulated differently,

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Speaker 3: like in exchange versus a sportsbook model. But even setting

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Speaker 3: that sort of you know, disparity, assign that distinction aside.

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Speaker 3: There's so many different cool versions of this. Look at

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Speaker 3: what Underdog's doing. Look at what Fliff is doing. Look

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Speaker 3: at what Prize Picks is doing. Look at what some

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Speaker 3: of these ancillary companies that sit adjacent to that. Look

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Speaker 3: what Picket's doing, Betting Pros is doing, Odds Jam is

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Speaker 3: doing unabated. These are all companies that should be able

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Speaker 3: to participate in a much more meaningful way, and unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: there's so much red tape that's inserted by those that

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Speaker 3: stand to lose the most if this is truly a

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Speaker 3: an open and competitive environment. But be sports betters are

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Speaker 3: actually informed, not just from a price perspective, but what

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Speaker 3: sort of bets probably should you stay away from or

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Speaker 3: maybe only spend the funny money on, versus what sort

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Speaker 3: of bets are you losing the least on. And that's

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Speaker 3: sad to see. So yeah, state like Florida, it's really

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Speaker 3: a shame that there's really only one legal option. And

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Speaker 3: now with the emergence of this federal construct, there's more

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Speaker 3: consumer choice and it's hard so long as the company

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Speaker 3: isn't brazingly breaking laws. It's hard to be against this

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Speaker 3: concept of competition. You know, there are limitations to that,

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Speaker 3: and I certainly have my own distinctions and lines, and

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Speaker 3: everyone has their own lines in the sand as to

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Speaker 3: where they draw that. But for the most part, it's

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Speaker 3: hard to support a construct where customers only have one option,

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Speaker 3: especially if those customers are good at what they do

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Speaker 3: and they find themselves not able to fully immerse themselves

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Speaker 3: in the only option that's afforded to them. In a

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Speaker 3: legal perspective, I guess.

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Speaker 1: We can jump into this now because it's my number

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Speaker 1: one question about we have states that have decided to

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Speaker 1: either a pass legalization laws and give you an actual

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Speaker 1: path towards becoming a legalized sports gambling operator, or we

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Speaker 1: have states that have decided we're not going to give

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Speaker 1: you an option to go and become a legalized sports

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Speaker 1: getting an operator. But now we've got social sports books,

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Speaker 1: we have peer to peer exchanges, we have calshi that

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Speaker 1: comes in in doing and we'll get to them here

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Speaker 1: a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: Specifically in a second. But how do you feel about

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Speaker 2: the coinbase systems?

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about the social sports books because

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Speaker 1: they're kind of getting a pass. We've spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time in the last six months, I believe, you

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Speaker 1: know talking about Calshie talking about their CFTC interpretation of

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Speaker 1: the law is saying they're the only ones that can

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Speaker 1: police us, and we haven't really put the spotlight heavily

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Speaker 1: on Well, you mentioned Fliff, you mentioned other These are

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Speaker 1: operators that are pulling big amounts of money out of

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Speaker 1: states like California in Texas, and in fact they're marketing

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Speaker 1: into those states as saying, hey, we're legal, this is

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Speaker 1: sports Betting Light come play with us.

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Speaker 2: What's your take on.

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Speaker 1: The way that they're a pro coaching it, because it

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Speaker 1: may not be blatantly illegal, but it feels like there's

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Speaker 1: something going around the law that's going on.

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Speaker 3: My viewpoint on this is that at the end of

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Speaker 3: the day, in the long run, operators that want to

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Speaker 3: be successful are going to have to you know, and

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Speaker 3: want to sell their business. Right. We all in theory,

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00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,719
Speaker 3: we all get into this because at some point we

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Speaker 3: want to you know, change the world, and we want

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Speaker 3: to create great user impact user experiences, and we want

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Speaker 3: to create a lot of value. But some of us

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Speaker 3: may want to sell our businesses, right, and it's going

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Speaker 3: to become i think, increasingly hard to do that in

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Speaker 3: that you know, social and sweeps world. Because it would

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Speaker 3: be fair to say that there's been you know, some degree,

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Speaker 3: maybe not as much as CALCI and the CFTC sort

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Speaker 3: of constructs have intercepted and intersected with, but there's been

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Speaker 3: some momentum from a legislative perspective on a state by

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Speaker 3: state basis to address these social and sweepstakes sports books.

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, just like everything else, there's a

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Speaker 3: range of these companies. There's companies that are more on

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Speaker 3: the brand new side that are saying, hey, this is

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Speaker 3: you know, sports betting light and maybe aren't super thoughtful

361
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,040
Speaker 3: about well technically, or you know, a sweep stakes sponsor,

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Speaker 3: and which means that there's real tax implications to that

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Speaker 3: when you know your consumers which roll money, redeem money,

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Speaker 3: like you know the amount that you're redeeming is income

365
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Speaker 3: because you're not risking anything. That's the whole concept of

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Speaker 3: being a sweep stake sponsor or that when you sell

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Speaker 3: these tokens you know many of these states, you know

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Speaker 3: that those token sales are subject to sales tax. And

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Speaker 3: I think, just like in every other industry, you have

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Speaker 3: sort of really mature businesses that are looking at sweep

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Speaker 3: says a multi sort of regulatory strategy of like, hey,

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Speaker 3: how do I introduce my product to players in California

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Speaker 3: and in Texas, but overall and in time, I want

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Speaker 3: to be a bit more more regulated, versus companies that

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Speaker 3: are saying, hey, we'll figure it out later. This is

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Speaker 3: a way for us to operate a lot more states.

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00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,679
Speaker 3: And with those two strategies you might find a slightly

378
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Speaker 3: different approach to adhering to the rest of the rules

379
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 3: that now would you know, are you're subjected to by

380
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 3: virtue of calling yourselves a sweet a sweepstakes sponsor. So

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00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,880
Speaker 3: it's it's not something Sport Trade you know, has really

382
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Speaker 3: thought about. Because again that the tax thing for us,

383
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,639
Speaker 3: like we're a very low margin business model, and so

384
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 3: like you know, we pay already about two percent of

385
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 3: the amount of money that's depositive with us on the

386
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 3: net in terms of payment processing costs, and that makes

387
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,400
Speaker 3: up close to a quarter of our revenue, as you'd

388
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Speaker 3: believe it. Yeah, so when you think about these gross

389
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Speaker 3: gaming revenue taxes and what's sharing what's not, you got

390
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Speaker 3: to keep in mind there's a lot of other sort

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Speaker 3: of percentages of that revenue that are already going out

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Speaker 3: the door before taxes even hit. Some of these states

393
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Speaker 3: that charge five, six, seventy eight, nine, ten percent sales tax,

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Speaker 3: that would be another let's stay on the net eight

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Speaker 3: percent on top of the two percent you're paying for

396
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,960
Speaker 3: the deposits, So now you're paying ten percent on every

397
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,479
Speaker 3: purchase or deposit. That's just not feasible for us as

398
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Speaker 3: a business. We would not we would not be able

399
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 3: to make any sort of positive revenue after our direct costs.

400
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Speaker 3: So yeah, we've always tried to I think, for better

401
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 3: or worse, trying to do things the right way. And

402
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 3: so when we look at these potential avenues, we say, okay,

403
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Speaker 3: you know, there may be is a real use case

404
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 3: in some of these states for sweeps. But then you

405
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 3: look at the rest of what that means to really

406
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 3: be a sweep stakes operator through and through and commit

407
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 3: to that. There are tax implications that just make that

408
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 3: impossible for us. So we're swimming in our own lane.

409
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 3: It's it's something we've evaluated, but we after done, after

410
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 3: having done that, you know, an evaluation, we looked at

411
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Speaker 3: it and said that we can't do it. We will

412
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Speaker 3: actually won't make any money. So you're gonna yes, you're

413
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 3: gonna find. You're gonna find, you know, a spectrum. And

414
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Speaker 3: there's some companies that you know, pay that sales tax

415
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Speaker 3: and do all those sort of things and have all

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Speaker 3: of these you know, regulatory helpers and consultants and they're

417
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Speaker 3: on the up and up and they're very legitimate business.

418
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Speaker 3: And then there's those that maybe sport trade. If we were,

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Speaker 3: you know, seven years late, we didn't have a lot

420
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 3: of money, we'd have gone into that We probably would

421
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Speaker 3: have been the company that maybe said, well, we'll figure

422
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Speaker 3: out the sales tax thing later. Right, We've got to

423
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Speaker 3: build a business first. So you know, that's it's just

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Speaker 3: not where we are in our trajectory. Wouldn't have been

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Speaker 3: able to make that jump.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned the letter that you wrote about what's going

427
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 1: on in the sport prediction market and how it's gambling,

428
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Speaker 1: and you've been very clear by saying, I'm not going

429
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Speaker 1: to sit here and tell you that this is not gambling.

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Speaker 2: This is gambling.

431
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Speaker 1: Do we need the federal government to define what is

432
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Speaker 1: gaming from a sports betting perspective? To clear all this

433
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Speaker 1: up when it comes to the social sports books, when

434
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 1: it comes to the social casinos, when it comes to

435
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: the sport prediction markets, the sports books in general. Are

436
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: we racing towards that where we have to define what

437
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: this is in order to properly have laws in place.

438
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's such an interesting question, and it's defined

439
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 4: in so many different ways and so many different states,

440
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 4: and it's certainly been a real challenge. I think, you

441
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,199
Speaker 4: know the comment I made about you know, I.

442
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 3: Think I mentioned to this to Dan at Sportico is

443
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 3: I said, you know, you're not You're not going to

444
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 3: particularly hear me go and make the argument that this

445
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 3: isn't sports betting. And the point I was trying to

446
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 3: make there is that I think when we think about

447
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 3: the potential distinction in terms of how companies that are

448
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 3: operating more like an exchange versus a sports book should

449
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 3: be regulated, should be taxed, who they should be regulated

450
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 3: by the reasons why that's the case isn't because one

451
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 3: is gambling and the other isn't. I mean, that just

452
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 3: doesn't seem that doesn't. Like the sky is blue, okay,

453
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,239
Speaker 3: you know the sun will come up tomorrow, Like there

454
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 3: are certain like definite realities in this life. And I

455
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 3: feel like to say, well, one is gambling and one isn't.

456
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 3: Is is probably wrong. However, there are real distinctions, right,

457
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 3: There are real distinctions between how this product operates exchange

458
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 3: in a sports book, and I think sports rates live

459
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 3: that in a lot of ways in going to these

460
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 3: states and saying okay, well, all right, you're risking money

461
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 3: to win money. Sports is involved, all right, here we are,

462
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 3: We're going to try to get a license, and so

463
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 3: many the things that we've tried to do. How do

464
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 3: market makers operate. How can players plug in electronically via

465
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 3: what's called API and trade programmatically? These are all issues

466
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 3: that really haven't been How is revenue recognized and reported?

467
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 3: These are all things that very squarely fit and only

468
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 3: fit a sports book, and an exchange is sort of

469
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 3: left on the outside saying, well, wait a minute, revenue egles,

470
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 3: bet spots, bets paid. That doesn't really well, how does

471
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 3: that work? And how does the federal excise tach work?

472
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 3: If you start to bet against multiple golfers, you're technically

473
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 3: not taking risk as soon as you bet, know in

474
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 3: the second golf versa? How is that reported? Where does

475
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 3: a market maker fit in all this?

476
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:03,959
Speaker 5: So?

477
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 3: I think that there's so much nuance there that I

478
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 3: do think there would be a benefit to creating some

479
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 3: level of distinction. However, like you, are probably not holding

480
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 3: my breath for that to happen anytime soon.

481
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: Because if we aren't going to define what gaming is,

482
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: or what gambling is, what sports betting is, how do

483
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: we exist in a world where the Internet and innovation

484
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 1: needs to be embraced and pushed because that's where everything lives.

485
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 1: I mean, so many of us, including myself. I used

486
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 1: to go to a radio studio to go to work.

487
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: I haven't gone to a radio studio in five years.

488
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: I've been working every day for five years, but I

489
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: have never gone into an actual studio. Because the Internet

490
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: allows me to do this very interview with you, with

491
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 1: you in Philadelphia and me in Las Vegas. What do

492
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: we do about archaic laws, namely the Wire Act? Like

493
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: what do we do with these things that have been

494
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 1: on the book since nineteen sixty one when nobody envisioned

495
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,479
Speaker 1: the current way we do business?

496
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 3: I think this is the two part answer. Part one

497
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: is that there are certain rules laws I would say,

498
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 3: like that that no longer fit the current regime, like

499
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 3: that that was a law that was meant to go

500
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 3: after like organized crime.

501
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Chicago, in the Chicago and Las Vegas. It

502
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: was passed literally to go after that, right.

503
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 3: And you know, you know, these mobs made a considerable

504
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 3: amount of money with setting up these wire rooms and

505
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 3: you know, transferring the information of all these bets and

506
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 3: how to move the lines and what's the results and

507
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 3: all these sort of things. And that was used as

508
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 3: a tool as a mechanism to go after organized crime.

509
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 3: So using it to go after a company that pays

510
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 3: a lot of taxes and hires people and pays payroll

511
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 3: taxes and has a corporate office and people show up

512
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 3: to work, and it creates a lot of economic value.

513
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 3: Like not exactly, I don't think that wasn't the intention,

514
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 3: and so I think there's some of those sort of

515
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 3: things that definitely need to be addressed. I think the

516
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 3: second part of the question that was the more interesting part,

517
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 3: which is when you think about a regular like the CFTC,

518
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 3: right the Commodities of Future Straining Commission, that is a

519
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 3: principle based regulator. It's a principle based set of regulation.

520
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 3: It's a principle based regime and look no further than

521
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,719
Speaker 3: the twenty three core principles of the CFTC. So when

522
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 3: you're doing DCM application, you have to sort of demonstrate

523
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: how you are going to how what you do fits

524
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 3: and complies with the core principles. It's directional. It's what's

525
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 3: called risk based regulation. And unfortunately in the US, state

526
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 3: by state online sports betting and land based sports betting

527
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 3: and land based casino gaming world, it's very rules based,

528
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 3: which is the opposite, which isn't like, hey, I'm going

529
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: to tell you generally how to treat customers. You know,

530
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 3: generally we shouldn't be doing things like this. We need

531
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 3: to be sort of reporting in this way, rules based.

532
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 3: The opposite, you need to do exactly this way. So

533
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 3: if you operate like a casino with a poker room,

534
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: you need to have exactly nineteen cameras and the need

535
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 3: to be set up in this orientation in this way.

536
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 3: I mean, this is very I had a former commissioner

537
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 3: at the Ontario Gaming Control Board who had told me

538
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 3: that when he came and he transformed Ontario's before legalized

539
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 3: sports betting there which pick happened in April fourth, twenty

540
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: twenty one, or twenty twenty two, that's what it was,

541
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 3: April twenty twenty two. He transformed an entire regime from

542
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 3: a rules based regime to a risk based regime. And

543
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 3: you look at Ontario and you say, it's got thirty

544
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 3: forty to fifty operators. It's got operators like Pinnacle who

545
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 3: have never thought to come in the US, but are

546
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 3: operating in a legal market right now in Ontario. Because

547
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 3: a principle based, risk based way of regulating is so

548
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 3: much better. Because to answer your initial point, when things

549
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 3: change and new technologies come and it was the Internet,

550
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 3: and now it's going to be AI and who knows

551
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 3: what the next thing is going to be. The regulators

552
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 3: already set up for success, and they say, I don't

553
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 3: care how you do it. I don't care what exactly

554
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 3: you do. You need to fit with directionally, how I

555
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 3: want customers to be treated, how I want you to

556
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 3: report on activity, how I want you to react when

557
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 3: bad things happen. Here's a framework to follow. And I

558
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 3: think it would behoove state legislators to start to make

559
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 3: that switch, to say, you know what, we are just

560
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 3: tying two hands behind our regulators back because we're going

561
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,959
Speaker 3: to give them this rule set. And then here comes sweeps,

562
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 3: here comes DFS two point zero, here comes prediction markets,

563
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 3: and they're left absolutely not able to do anything right.

564
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 3: I would love to change my rules, Alex, but I can't.

565
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 3: We're a very rules based system and I can't change

566
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 3: those without legislative help. What legislators need to do is

567
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 3: they need to give those regulators a lot more breathing

568
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 3: room to createor a principle based approach. So I think

569
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 3: that's the answer. And you look at something like the

570
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 3: CFTC that's a commission that has lasted a long time,

571
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 3: through many types of different products, and it's hard to

572
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 3: recount a ton of scenarios where even in the FTX

573
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 3: scenario and the whole debacle FTX, a subsidiary of FTX

574
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 3: was ledger X. Ledger X was what was called a DCO,

575
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 3: a derivative clearing organization. It regulated by the CFTC, and

576
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 3: not a dollar was touched because they were able to

577
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 3: demonstrate that they followed the core principles of the CFTC

578
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 3: and they kept all dollars that were held by consumers

579
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 3: completely separate. So whereas in other jurisdictions they went and

580
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 3: spent a lot of users money on these risky investments,

581
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 3: the US customers, US and retail investors money was safe.

582
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 3: And so isn't that enough to say that the CFTC

583
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 3: way of doing it is adequate because it has stood

584
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 3: the test of times. It has you know, wrote out

585
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 3: these storms that would have rocked customers in other states

586
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 3: from the jurisdiction from the exact same company. So that's

587
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 3: the answer. The problem is it's it's hard to people

588
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 3: like to have this control and they like to say

589
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 3: I want you to do with this, this, this it's

590
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 3: a power trip thing, and I think it's harder to

591
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 3: sort of let go and say you know what, I

592
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 3: you know, I really trust those that are to come

593
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 3: in and do all the work to get regulated and

594
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 3: give them a directional idea of how I want to operate.

595
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 3: It's much easier as a legislator to say I want

596
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: the reporting to look exactly like this, and this goes

597
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 3: in this. I mean, we've had examples at sport Trade

598
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 3: where I'm not going to say the state where we say, hey,

599
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: we give out bonuses, but we do it. We don't

600
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: make you play through it. We think it's more honest

601
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 3: and fair. We just give you the money. And in

602
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 3: a certain state they said, well, actually that doesn't fit

603
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:46,959
Speaker 3: within any of our descriptions, so you don't get the

604
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 3: tax benefit of writing that off like the other operators do,

605
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 3: even though those other operators make you play through it.

606
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 3: So it's sort of a double whammy because it didn't

607
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 3: actually fit in any of the boxes. Whereas a base

608
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 3: regular would say directionally, you're giving a promo, you're not

609
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: making the customers play through it. That's even better setting

610
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: that aside. I'm just going to put that under the

611
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: promos column. I don't need it to have it be

612
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 3: clearly defined by a legislator for me to make that determination.

613
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: That's the difference. That's why it would be a lot better.

614
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: I've already kept you longer than I said I was

615
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: going to, So I just want to get to one

616
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: more topic before we go too long here, because I

617
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: think it's kind of dovetailing into what we're talking about,

618
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: because it's the education of the American better. Price discovery

619
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: is something that as you get into gaming and gambling,

620
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: you start to look at, you know, six' five, blackjack

621
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: you start to go, Again, OKAY i don't like.

622
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:38,479
Speaker 2: THAT i want three to two.

623
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: Blackjack you play, enough eventually price will come into play

624
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: because you, know the longer you, play you got to

625
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: watch the price because you're going to basically the odds

626
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: are already stacked against. You you're trying to stay in

627
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: the game for as long as you. Can how do

628
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: we educate the Average american gambler that price? Matters is

629
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: it just give it time and we'll get there and

630
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: eventually people will figure it. Out or is there something

631
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: we can do either in the media in the content.

632
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: Space from a regular, standpoint how do we educate The

633
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: american gambler better when it comes to.

634
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: PRICE i think.

635
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: It's really hard to, do AND i think it's because

636
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 3: a lot of people look at sports betting as an entertainment.

637
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 3: THING i think that what this massive shift that's happening

638
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 3: right now with this prediction markets is that for the

639
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 3: first time, ever you actually have these companies that are very,

640
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 3: large that have a lot of, money that believe in

641
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: this sort of exchange. Model and the exchange model takes

642
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 3: care of the price thing because it doesn't let anyone

643
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 3: get a raw, deal because all the people that can

644
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 3: offer price just undercut each other until the price is.

645
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 3: Offered are so fair and that's what's so exciting about

646
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 3: a company Like robin saying, no, no, no we're going

647
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 3: to do, this but we're doing with the exchange. Model

648
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 3: we believe in. It it's, transparent it's, fair and SO

649
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 3: i think as that becomes it gains a lot of,

650
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: notoriety WHICH i expect it will over the coming three four.

651
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 3: YEARS i think it'll be start to be very easy

652
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 3: to compare the price because the way these exchanges and

653
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 3: brokergers make money is with a, commission and it's in

654
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 3: your face and they say the commission is one percent

655
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 3: or one. Cent and that's a lot easier if every

656
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 3: sports book was offered you a plus one hundred bet

657
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 3: and then said our markup is five percent versus vet

658
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 3: MGM's markup is seven percent VERSUS bed three sixty. Five,

659
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 3: oh they're only three. Percent that is now very easy

660
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 3: to look at because you don't have to use any math.

661
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 3: Whatsoever three is less than five is less than. Seven

662
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 3: and SO i think the world's going to. CHANGE i

663
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 3: think we're in the middle of a paradigm, shift AND

664
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 3: i think it's going to get easier to see what

665
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 3: the price impacts are because the broker or the exchange

666
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 3: are gonna have to show you, like, hey this includes

667
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 3: a commission OF, x and now you as a consumer

668
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 3: only COMPARING. X it's why Robin hood was so successful

669
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 3: fifteen years ago because they said we're going to be

670
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 3: the first broker to charge zero. Commissions, well all of a,

671
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 3: sudden everyone was quite, sensitive whereas they really weren't quite sensitive,

672
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,959
Speaker 3: before because they made it super, Clear, hey they're charging

673
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 3: you seven ninety nine a, Traine i'm going to charge.

674
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 3: Zero and when you bake it down with something that

675
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 3: simple as opposed to, like, wait plus three, sixty whether

676
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 3: they go on all these other, apps plus three. Eighty,

677
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 3: okay plus three eighty is better in this, case but

678
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 3: in that, case it's going to be better for this

679
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 3: other get. Bet SO i GUESS i have to keep

680
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 3: money in multiple. Platforms with these exchanges and. Brokerages you

681
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 3: can say this one charges one percent commission and this

682
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 3: one charges no, Commission So i'm just going to use this.

683
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,959
Speaker 3: One i'm not gonna use the one that charges one percent.

684
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 3: Commission and all of these things are extraordinary for customers

685
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 3: because at the end of the, day three years from,

686
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 3: now the AVERAGE nfl money line spread total is going

687
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 3: to be including fees plus one hundred minus one oh.

688
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 3: One you, know it's just going to be absolutely, bonkers

689
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 3: and So i'm here for. It i'm really.

690
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: Excited in three, years we're going even money one oh

691
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 1: one on EVERY nfl.

692
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 3: Game, yes, YES i want to see with a great

693
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 3: cansigis maybe minus one on one minus one, one but

694
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 3: something like so ridiculou lessly amazing that you know what

695
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 3: to watch WHAT i say, Here but if you kind

696
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 3: of know what you're, doing you can essentially gamble for zero,

697
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 3: edge you could sort of put your ten dollars down

698
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 3: on now your favorite four or five games every week

699
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 3: and kind of get just like if you only did stock,

700
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 3: trading you didn't do, options you didn't do any of

701
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 3: the complex financial, stuff and you only submitted stock, trades

702
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 3: like you kind of pay zero fees now because that

703
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 3: world is so, competitive there's so many, brokers so many,

704
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 3: exchanges so many market. Makers if that ends up happening

705
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 3: with sports, betting not only is minus one ten, dead

706
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 3: minus one oh five is just as dead as minus one.

707
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 3: Ten and now you're looking at you, know if you

708
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 3: look at the game and it's minus one on two

709
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 3: minus one oh, two like that's about as expensive as

710
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 3: it's going to, get which IS i, mean think about,

711
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 3: that like for me is? Better LIKE i would love

712
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 3: if you can minus one one and, Everything like that's

713
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,479
Speaker 3: the point of price. SHOPPING i just, like here's my six. Game,

714
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 3: like imagine betting your Fame eagles minus the. Points hopefully

715
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 3: they're gonna be. Covered you, know you're favoring more than

716
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 3: ten to fIF ten to twelve games this. Year imagine

717
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 3: taking The eagles every week minus three and a, half

718
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 3: minus one oh two it's like minus one oh one

719
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 3: or plus one. Hundred that's what we're talking about. Here

720
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 3: AND i, think you, know for some of these, companies

721
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 3: like Vetting pros included, like oh my, god what an

722
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 3: incredible opportunity to like show people what the future of

723
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 3: this could, be because IT'S i, DON'T i. DON'T i

724
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 3: think we're entering such a transformational time that between now

725
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 3: and five years ago everything was still minus one. Ten

726
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 3: like you go on all these apps is five years from,

727
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 3: now no, chance absolutely no chance you're gonna go off

728
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 3: On sunday afternoon Or sunday, Morning gilla In vegas and

729
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 3: see minus one ten everywhere like that is so.

730
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 2: Dead, Wow well that's the, Future.

731
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: Alex before we let you go here in the, present

732
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: the states That Sport trade is currently operating.

733
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: In where are?

734
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: You where can folks find information about Sport trade to

735
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: use the?

736
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 3: App, yes so we are live In New, Jersey, California,

737
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 3: California New, Jersey College, Wish. California that would be Breaking New, Jersey, Colorado, Arizona,

738
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 3: virginia And. Iowa you can find us by typing in Sports.

739
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 3: Trade we're coming out with our web platform this. Summer

740
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 3: we're coming out with our charting feature and just a

741
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: couple of a couple of, days which is super. Exciting you,

742
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 3: know we like to say you could trade you, know

743
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 3: the winner On calci And. Rama you can trade anything

744
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 3: on sports, trade including will there be a run in

745
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 3: the first inning where you're going to see those trend

746
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 3: lines go up and down and change with every, pitch

747
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 3: and so THAT'S i really think that's the future of

748
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 3: vetting for a lot of, customers and so we've got

749
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 3: to figure out a way to get it national very. Quickly,

750
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 3: here but for those that are in those states or

751
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 3: those that know people in those, states check it, out

752
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 3: BECAUSE i really think it's a platform that you're going

753
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: to look and, say, Wow i've never experienced anything like this.

754
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 3: Before and of course we'd love to hear your feedback

755
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 3: in here how.

756
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: We can Improve he Is, okay THE ceo Of Sport.

757
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: Trade thank you for being. Here we appreciate this was

758
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: an unbelievable. Conversation thank, You thank you for the time.

759
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 2: Today thanks for listening to The Betting pros.

760
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 5: Podcast if you love the, show the best freeway to

761
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 5: support us is by leaving.

762
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 2: A positive review On Apple podcasts Or.

763
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 5: Spotify follow us on x and TikTok At Betting pros

764
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 5: And instagram At Betting PROS. Nfl also subscribe to our

765
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 5: YouTube channel at YouTube dot com Slash Betting pros