WEBVTT - Christopher Cross 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:08.119 The Quest Loft Show is a production of iHeart Radio. 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.799 Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Quest Love Show. I 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:31.000 am Questlove and man, the hits keep happening. Our legendary 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:35.120 guest today has made history, starting back in nineteen eighty 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:39.280 one sweeping the Grammys, first time sweeping the Big Four 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:45.600 that means album, song record and oh best New Artist. 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.800 Of course, he has worked with everyone. We will get 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.800 into it. Of course. We know this man needs no introduction. 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.560 Name it from Michael McDonald to Brian Wilson, to Bert 0:00:55.640 --> 0:01:00.240 Backrack to Peter Allen, Carol, I cannot wait to ask 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:03.320 you what that room was like. And my research I 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:06.839 also discovered that you might have a Ginger Baker story 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:11.160 to tell I do. I hope you survived it. Our 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:16.240 guest today and myself appeared in the very enjoyable yacht 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.680 Rock Doc, a doc so good that my own producers 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:23.040 a little bit angry at me, like what the hell? 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.520 But I enjoyed doing that so much. We have met 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:29.480 a few times, and one of those times was a 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:34.679 bucket list moment for me. Recreating the legendary SCTV bit 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.760 of Rick moranis doing Michael McDonald as a background singer 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.000 on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. We were supposed 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:43.640 to do this in New York City, but somehow the 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:46.640 star saw that we get to do this in La 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:51.600 So of course took that opportunity to welcome the great 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.560 Christopher Cross to the Quest Left Show. Thank you for 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:55.200 doing this for. 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:57.160 Me, best pleasure, Thank you honor to be here. 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:01.240 Well, first of all, just to look at the the 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:05.840 writing credits for the author theme, right, this is Bert Backrack, 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:11.400 Carol berrys Aira, Peter Allen and yourself. I always wanted 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.880 to know which one of you actually came up with 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.959 the phrase between the Moon and New York City. 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.520 Well, it's pretty fun because Bette Middler made a joke 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:22.600 at the kade Mere Words about four on a song. 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.440 What is this you know? Because there are four writers right. Well, 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:27.960 what happened was I was asked by Iran Pictures to 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.480 score the movie and I was like, well, okay, I've 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.240 never scored a movie, but you know that was during 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.800 my fifteen minutes and everything. Everybody's coming to me with stuff. 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.480 But then Stephen Gordon, who wrote Arthur, was also first 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:40.799 time director, so he didn't want everything to be new 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:42.320 so he said, I think we need to find somebody 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.240 to score it who's got some experience. So they gave 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.240 it to Backreck and Bert was married to Krabar Sega 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.680 at the time, right, And so they called me up 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:52.640 about you know, Burt's going to score, but we need 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:54.040 a theme which you want to write it with us, 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:55.880 And of course I was under no illusion that, you know, 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.359 I was the new kid in town, so as Don 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.480 Henley like to say, and so you know, they invited 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:03.560 me over the house. I went there about midnight, their 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:05.360 house in Beverly Hills, and it was pretty heavy. 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:07.520 I walked in. They asked you to come at midnight. 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.040 Well, just whatever it worked out. I got there about 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.639 midnight at Bird's house and I walked in there. Course 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.160 there's two oscars on the mantel already, so it was 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.520 intimidating for sure, but Sonny would and answer your question. 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.400 We started working on the music, and then once we 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:24.240 get the music kind of settled with Bert and I, 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:26.760 then Carol and I started working on a lyric, and 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.120 Carol actually stumbled on the realization that she and Peter 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:34.040 Allen had a song they'd never finished, and it had 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:35.720 the line when you get caught to in New York City, 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:40.720 And that line actually came Peter was circling Kennedy and 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.040 he was going to be his partner and he was 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.560 stuck in a hold and the line popped into his head. 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:50.480 So Carol told me when you get caught to the movie, 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.520 because the moon was out his window on the plane 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:55.680 and he's wanting to land to be with his partner. 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.320 So Peter said, you know, I came up with the line. 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.840 So Carol calls him on Australia said, hey, look, I'm 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:04.080 working on the song with Christopher Cross and Bert and 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:06.600 you know there's that song we never finished and has 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:08.680 that line when you get Caught in New York City 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.000 and it'd be perfect for what we're doing. Are you 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.680 cool with us plugging this in? And Peter was very 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:15.920 gracious about it, and so that's how it happened. He 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:19.760 kind of he remotely phoned in the chorus of. 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:21.840 The song and wanted to Oscar for it. 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:25.039 He did, Yeah, I okay, but that's okay. 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:29.200 Actually is a way better than in my mind. I 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.400 had this whole thing of like I'm trying to figure 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:36.640 out like how to for superpowers like arm wrestle some 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.080 real estate into the song, like did you come with 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:41.000 an acoustic guitar? 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:43.920 Was Bert Bird's on piano? I just came and but 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:45.920 I but I, but I had my ideas and from 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.440 when I was originally supposed to do something, and so 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:51.159 Burton and I kind of, you know, got the music together, 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:52.840 and after that was done, then Burt just sort of 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:56.080 played to accompany us, you know, writing the lyric. Carroll 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.679 had a yellowpad. But you know, there's a thing quest 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.599 about countain lines. I learned from Will Jennings, the great 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.320 songwriter one time when I worked with Will, and I 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:07.799 was trying to figure out, well, how much credit should 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:08.960 I get or you get? And he said, man, I'm 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.600 not into Countain lions. And it was a real piece 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:13.600 of wisdom for me. I was just an experience because 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:15.160 you don't count lines, man, you just. 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.279 Whatever does that? I just split it happy, whatever. 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.760 Your participation is. So yeah, I mean Peter wasn't actually 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:23.800 in the room, but when Carol told me the line, 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:25.760 we were looking at Rushes from the film and I'm like, 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:29.400 you're crazy, that's insane, that's like perfect. So yeah, that's 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:30.880 how it happened. As far as I remember. 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:36.800 Wow, that's great. What is your first musical memory in life? 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:42.840 Well, probably you know, Buddy Holly, Peggy Sue or something, 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.839 or Everly Brothers, possibly Ray Charles, I Can't Stop Loving You. 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.520 I mean, these are all singles that I bought for 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:50.120 ninety nine cents back in the day. 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:53.880 You know, what was the first record that you brought 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:54.800 with your own money? 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.360 How to be one of those? Probably Everly Brothers, Wake 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.919 Up Lit SUSI, or maybe Buddy Holly Sue Again. I 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.040 bought remember I Can't Stop You, but also bought a 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:06.880 lot of weird things like Yaka yak and you know 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:09.839 the coasters. Yeah, those things. So we used to buy 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.920 singles and my sister had one of those little carrying 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.120 cases of forty five. You know. Also, Ricky Nelson was 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:16.839 a big We watched that was You Heard show, so 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:19.520 you know, things were very eclectic then, you know, the 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:21.840 charts were all over the place. You had like Hella Mother, 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:25.200 Hell of Fadda, and then you had yeah, so it 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:26.520 was a lot different than it is now. 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.919 Wait, that was a Hello Mother, Hello Fada. 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:30.920 That was a big hit. 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:34.680 That was an actual song. See, okay, I feel so 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:35.520 dumb now. 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:36.920 Well, no, You're the You're the ultimate music. 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.400 No, that was a single, Okay, So you know, like 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.640 when something becomes classic, then it becomes a commercial, right, 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.680 Like I didn't know that Barefoot and it wasn't. 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.320 Just a speaking no no. 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.520 No. I knew it was the Speaking Span commercial because 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.359 it got picked up in commercials. But I mean, you know, 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.760 I got nieces and nephews that think that, you know, 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:59.320 the rap song from Black Sheep is the choice of 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:03.440 yours driving Hamsters was just for that commercial. I'm like, no, 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:05.039 that was like one of the biggest rap songs of 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:10.200 all time, but I didn't know that that was an 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.200 actual song. I just know it as the downy commercial. No. 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.840 And like things like uh sorry, there's a single that 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:19.600 was out called Stranger on the Shore by this guy Akerbilk, 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:23.160 who was this Swedish clarinetist or something, and you know, 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.800 Cherriot's a fire theme. All these kinds of things. Radio 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:27.800 was so eclectic. It was in fact, I was doing 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.320 to Jimmy Webb about MacArthur Park because it was seven 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.080 and half minutes long and you would never get away 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:36.720 with that now, and so it was. I had all 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.800 kinds of singles, but I think the early exposure was 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:41.520 probably like I said, I'd have to if I will 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.360 go back Everly Brothers, Buddy, Holly Ray, Charles, Richie Allen's 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:46.120 Big One. 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.160 You know you mentioned MacArthur Park. You know. I grew 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:53.240 up in a Chibis family, and there's a turnaround in 0:07:53.280 --> 0:08:00.800 that song. I'm two years old and and my dad 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.040 was such a tyrant, and this is way before I'm 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.320 drumming for him. I didn't start drumming for him until 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.920 I was eleven, but I remember it was like the 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.400 musical version of if you ever see in a Bronx 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.160 Tail when the Hell's Angels come in and they mess 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.800 up the bar, and that moment where he's like, and 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.560 now you can't leave. My dad was like, I will 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:27.480 make you motherfuckers do that turnaround until I'm satisfied, and 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.320 I don't care if it takes all night. And literally, 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.320 I remember, this is the only time I felt like 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:36.679 it was a musical punishment for his band. They had 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:45.000 to play that turnaround like ad nausea and I'm in bed. 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.640 It's like nine pm and they're rehearsing in the living 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.640 room downstairs, and that loop just yea. 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:55.240 Because so many people said to me, what the hell 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.320 is a song about someone left a cake out on 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:02.880 the rain. It's a monster romance. I mean, the cake 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:07.000 is a woman. You know, it's like hello until now. 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:11.240 Like I again, because I was three years old, I 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:15.560 literally took everything that he said in that song, like literally. 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:21.559 So anytime I see a coconut cake like Magnolia, like 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:26.040 Downstream from Fallon, I still get thoughts of a white 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:31.880 coconut cake inside raised storm. Why are we talking about 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:32.400 this song? 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.080 Because I just brought up you know how radio was 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:37.120 so eclectic then, Like I said, anything went. There was 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.480 all this stuff, like I said, from Ray Stevens, you know, 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.080 things like Ali you all these things. So my exposure 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.120 was pretty broad. What city Sanatoria, Texas? 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.800 Okay? Do you remember the first concert you ever went? 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:55.599 To tell the truth? I think it was Herman's Hermits. 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.160 What yours is? When was this? Well? 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.559 How to be? Sixties? You know, I was born in 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:04.200 fifty one, so sixties. I saw Hermas Hermits. I saw 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:08.240 the Who procol Harum quite a few bands early on. 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.920 I can't keep track of the order, but certainly Hermas 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:12.880 Hermits was one of the early ones who I saw 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:13.640 quite a few times. 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.720 I saw, you know, the Moon's drum set stay intact. 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.040 Or yeah, they didn't blow it up that day, and yeah, 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:23.240 and then people like h of course I got to 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.080 see lots of great stuff. You know, Hendrix many times, 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.680 you know, so really yeah three times, Jimmie three. 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:32.960 Times pre eighty four. Live records didn't feel the same 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:37.440 that it always felt like. And then I discovered once 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.880 I started investigating, that some live records weren't live records 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.079 at all, like, oh, that's why it sounds so pristine. 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.120 They were, you know, right every yeah, or some sound 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.360 check recordings with overdubs or whatever. But I always wanted 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:56.640 to know when you saw a live okay Hendricks, for example, 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.360 were you able to feel the music like that or 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.640 did it down like tinny and far away, like almost 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.000 the equivalent of like your monitors being on and only 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:06.360 your monitors being on. 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.160 Well that with Jimmy because he came Santonio when he 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:11.720 played in an old theater that had a big velvet curtain, 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.640 you know, it was closed, and Jimmy was using I'm 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:16.560 a guitar player, so Jimmy was using these big sun 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.480 amplifiers at the time, like bigger than anybody used there. 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.640 He had three of them like this, you know. 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:23.000 He's the sound would come from. 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:24.960 He was the first. Yeah, he was the first guy 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.480 to kind of really crack it up. And I remember 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.200 I was in the seventh row and I heard, you know, 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.040 some rumblings behind the stage and I heard this bitch 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:35.240 and it was Jimmy plugging in his guitar, you know, 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:39.080 all right, and he hit like a fifth on the 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:44.679 guitar and the curtain just and we were like, oh 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:48.480 my god, what like velser raptors back there or something. 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.400 And then he started Foxy Lady and they opened the 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:55.160 curtain and he was in total green with the hat 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.680 with the feather and it was so amazing. The sound 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.400 was so incredible that he was like from outer space. Man, 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.400 it was like something you'd never ever seen. But so yeah, 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.360 So in the case of Hendricks, he had a big 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.079 sent He couldn't hear Mitch Mitchell for shit. 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:11.439 I was going to say, was the sound just coming 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:12.800 from the stage. 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.120 Or mostly from the States? Well, look at the Beatles 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:16.960 at Shay Stadium. You know, they just had like sure 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.920 columns or vox columns. I mean it was ridiculous compared 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.760 to so yeah, but still you know, seeing these artists. 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:26.640 You know, I'm still thrilled to have gotten to see him, 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:28.360 you know, Kareem live and stuff like that at the 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.840 film where No, it was it was incredible. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.480 Where's the moment where you saw a concert where you 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:37.040 noticed the difference where it's like whoa, like real speakers 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.400 that hit you in the stomach wow? Or was it 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:43.679 just such a slow gradual. 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:45.920 Actually I had a little local band called Flash and 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.400 we actually got to open for several shows for Zeppelin 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.720 on their very first tour in San Antonio, Texas had 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:53.240 a rule that you had to have a local band 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.400 on the show for thirty minutes of every show, So 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.640 we got to open for Zeppelin on their first tour 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:02.520 in the States. I was about nineteen, so sixty sixty 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:06.599 nine seventy. It was out, yeah, and they were in 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:08.760 a big venue and they had actually had a DCPA 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:10.760 system and all that stuff. So that's probably the first 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.720 time I saw real production, you know, probably then. 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:18.000 Yeah, Okay, so you mentioned that you were in a 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:22.120 heart rock group, which I'm in the irony of it 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:27.439 all is what represents you now. But you know, did 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:32.920 playing heavy aggressive rock sort of shape your approach to 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.560 writing pop melodies now, like. 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.800 Well, actually, you know, opened for Zeppelins just because my 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:43.600 manager at the time had a production company they brought 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:45.520 Zeppelin in, so we just got to be on the show. 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.080 I wouldn't say we were so Actually one of my 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.640 biggest influences at the time was Zappa, so the music 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:53.839 was kind of like, you know, a bit progressive. I 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.680 remember I met Frank and he sort of questioned me 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.880 about me, claiming he was a big influence, and he 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:01.760 kind of put me on the griddle, said, well, like 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:03.800 I don't hear the He said, I like you music, 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.680 but I don't hear the kinship. Can you give me somebods? 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:08.839 And I came up worlding in for the money, bow 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:10.440 tie Daddy, all this stuff, and. 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.720 Then he's written a ray of song like that. Yeah, 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.840 everything was in the eleven nine meter like. 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.320 But it was pretty funny with him. So what's interesting 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.560 about Frank is years later he asked me to come 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:23.880 sit in with him at a show out here and 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.400 I couldn't. And a two weeks later in the mail, 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.040 I get a cassette and it says Zappa wind that 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.520 he played right like the wind in his show. Really, yeah, 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:33.200 it's a trip. 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:34.680 How is his rendition of it? 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.400 It's fast. He plays Wahwath guitar through the whole thing, 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.080 and he said, Chris crosspos coming to I couldn't make it. 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.360 So Brian the drum roady will be singing right like 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.960 the wind and uh, it was all pretty funny. But no, 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.640 so my music wasn't so much rock, although one of 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:54.880 my big things on the internet to miss I actually 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.360 subbed for Richie Blackmore in Deep Purple one time because 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.760 Richie got sick and I subbed him. So, you know, 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.520 I have long hair. I had hair, and I was 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.320 influenced by Jeff Beck and rocketar players and stuff certainly, 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.840 but but no, so my music was kind of interesting 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:10.440 at that time. I said, I was kind of influenced 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.960 a lot by Zappa and people like that. But then 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.960 once I started getting into Brian Wilson and Carl Wilson, 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:17.680 and then that's when things really turned. 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.280 I was going to say, what did pet Sounds mean 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.520 to you when it came out? Like I know a 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:28.400 lot of us have these kind of retroactive responses to it, like, oh, 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:30.680 it was a classic I always grew up with, But 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.360 I know that that was a hard sell for people. 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.240 Only certain few got it and people caught on later. 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.920 But how much does God only knows mean to you 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:42.600 as a well? 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.120 I don't argue with mcartney. It's probably greatest, I mean, 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:46.920 somewhere of the Rainbows right up there, But I think 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.280 God only knows certainly great songs ever written. And Carl's 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:52.440 my biggest vocal mentor so of course it was very 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:53.960 important to me that, you know, because I was so 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:57.680 close to Carl and I kind of emulated Carl growing up. 0:15:57.680 --> 0:15:59.400 But you got to realize, again, you're so much younger 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:01.920 than me. Pet Sounds, but see, I got exposed to 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.200 them early on. Like I remember Brian asking me, what's 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.480 your favorite song of mine? And I told him it's 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:10.040 the Lonely Sea, which is a very obscure tune off 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.040 an early record, and Brian kind of dug it. He's like, 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.720 the Lonely Sea, Yeah, cool, you know, and I said, yeah, 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:16.920 I used to sit in the dark room and just 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.440 listen that over him again. But no, Pet Sounds was revelatory. 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.120 I mean, obviously the Beatles, you know, that's where Sergeant 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.440 Pepper came in front of thing. So I mean it was incredible. 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:27.640 In fact, even and then Surfs Up too, you know 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.280 Surfs Up that records incredib Remember Mike McDonald picked me 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.760 up for dinner one night and he had Surfs Up 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.280 playing in his car, and you know, Mike definitely comes 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:40.040 from an R and B place and I was like, wow, cool, 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:41.840 and he said, yeah, somebody gave me this. He said 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.800 it's pretty amazing, and I'm like, well, yeah, it. 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.520 Is vouch like my dad loved. I mean, even though 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:52.240 he was sort of cut from the cloth of do 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:56.160 op and whatnot, but vocalists were his things. So, I mean, 0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:00.920 he was listening to streisand Johnny Mathis. He pattered himself 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.440 after nacking Cole, but he had pet sounds in there. 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.520 And you know, I remember I didn't catch one until 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.920 it probably until I moved to London in ninety four. 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:19.800 But I remember the second song, No No, the one 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:21.840 that has a bike horn in it. Yeah, and when 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:24.320 I was a kid, I was really amazed that they 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.760 had the like bike sounds and bike bells in it. 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:32.440 But you know it to me, the beauty that that 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.480 album represents, I hear that a lot in your vocal 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.320 Oh definitely, I feel like you're half that. And also 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:45.719 how many times have you heard Bill Withers, Like, you 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:47.879 have a tone in your voice that's very similar to 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:50.199 Bill Withers. That appealed to me because he was like, 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:54.200 my god before the Jackson's came along, like Bill Withers. 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.480 Was Yeah, well no, I actually got to know a 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:58.400 Bill a little bit. He and Marcia and their daughter 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:02.119 forgets her name, beautiful girl. But no major fan of Bills, 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:03.720 you know it. That was amazing, you know he was 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.000 like he was in the army and that he got 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.040 out and he started doing music and he just had 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.720 an incredible career in the time he did. But Withers 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.760 is amazing. So there are a lot of influence. I mean, 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:16.560 Karen Carboner was a big influence on me, I would 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.040 say vocally, but Carl was probably more than anybody else. 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:21.440 The guy and Carl and I did a lot of 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:22.439 background work together. 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.480 I was going to say, what was it like having 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:28.240 him because the list of people that are singing background 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.520 with you, like from the Eagles to the Wilsons, what 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:33.040 is that like having him in there? 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.000 Well, having Carl come in to sing on my second 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.080 record was kind of out of body for me. I 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.600 mean standing next to him at the studio singing was 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.400 just you know, beyond a dream come true. And then 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.080 later on Carl and I did when Brian wasn't doing 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:47.960 that well, he and I would do a lot of 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.520 vocal sessions as an exempt. We did California Girls for 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:54.560 davidly Roth. Wait, yeah, that's Carl and did all the 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:59.680 background vocals. Yeah, because Brian Brian wasn't. Ted Templeman called 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.240 me and said, hey, you know, David's doing a cover 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.920 of this California Girls going to come in. I said, yeah, sure, 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:08.280 and then Ted calls back and says, hey, we're thinking 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:10.400 maybe kralcook them with him. I'm like, oh, I get it, now, 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:12.720 I get it. That's okay. But so we did a 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.239 lot of things together, Carl and I did where I 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.240 was sort of subbing for Brian, if you will, because 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.680 Brian wasn't that well. So yeah, we did California Girls, 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:21.399 which is kind. 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:26.520 Of have you ever heard is a rap record? 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.520 David? No, Brian's Brian made a rap record? 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.600 Dog? Okay, so that's not right. The Vasti Boys in 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:41.040 eighty nine, their pet Sounds is an album called Paul's Boutique, 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.960 and this is their second album. Of course you know, 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:48.040 the first album sold gazillion copies, and you know, known 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.520 of these Braddy dudes whatever, and they went totally left 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.640 and made one of the greatest musical art collise records 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.920 of all time. It's like one of the last Kamikazi 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:03.520 sampling records. And it was produced by these guys called 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.840 the Dust Brothers. It got massive critical claim even though 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:09.680 it only sold like it went gold, but it got 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:17.399 massive critical acclaim. And I believe somehow Brian Wilson got word. 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.679 I don't know, maybe kids put him onto it or whatever, 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:24.879 but he liked Paul's boutique and wanted to meet the 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.679 producers of it. So they introduced him to the Dust Brothers. 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.720 And I think if you go on YouTube, it's not 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.840 Earth Girls or Smart or Smart Girls, I like Smart 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.119 Girls or something like that. It's it's almost like it's 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:40.400 a PSA song. 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:43.400 About Is this his answer to California Girls? 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.840 Oh? It probably could be. So he did five songs 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.919 with the Dust Brothers. And look, I mean, of course 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:56.600 old guy rapping. It's gonna come off like the name 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:58.720 is Brian and I'm here to say like, and I'm 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.280 here to say it's always the second every old white 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:06.160 Guy rap song. But yeah, he tried it and then 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:08.880 stopped after the fifth song. 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:10.040 But probably a good idea. 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:12.320 Yeah, but I mean I minor the balls and the 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:13.720 nerve to try to conquer this. 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:16.080 So yeah, the adventure to stuff I think's great. I 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:17.320 was unaware off to check it out. 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:32.439 There you go for all the type casting that you 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:37.320 get for the genre of yacht rock, do you own 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:39.240 a boat? I do not. 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:44.880 One time, when Sailing was released, Warner Brothers bought fifteen 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.720 Hoby Cats with the Christopher Cross first album logo on 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:51.520 the sail, and they get put him in malls and 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:52.920 I would go around when I was on the road 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:54.720 and people would throw cards in the boats and I 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:56.200 would pick the card out and you won the boat. 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:58.080 So they gave me one. So for a while I 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:01.000 had a Hoby Cat. But no, I've never what happened 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:03.159 to it. I don't know. I've got the sail, but 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:05.800 the boat's along gone. I think I washed away in 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:07.960 malibur Ing. But you know, I always talk about the 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:11.320 canvas doing miracles. It is more also a painter's canvas. 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:13.919 But maybe that's trying too hard. I did do some 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:15.800 sailing when I was younger, with an older friend of 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:17.399 mine who took me out of the coast and stuff, 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:19.320 and I'm sure that had something to do with it. 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:21.760 But no, I'm not a real avid sailor. I've been 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:23.920 on the America's cup boats and Dennis Connor and stuff 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:25.600 like that, but it's all just pr stuff, you know. 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:29.639 And I'm certain that even now you've done gigs at 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:31.840 DOC adjacent or oh. 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:35.480 Come on, yeah, I've done it. Yeah. At nausea, I. 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:39.840 Say, are you tired of performing near water and outdoors 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:40.440 and everything. 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:42.719 Well, it's like we talked about the Dock, you know. 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:45.320 I mean, all of us have kind of a love 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:46.879 hate thing with the whole yacht rock thing. You know, 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:49.679 it's a little kitchy, but it's been fantastic the way 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:53.960 it's brought the younger audience. But I think in the 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:55.600 end of the Dock, I think Fagan kind of speaks 0:22:55.600 --> 0:23:00.199 for all of us in a way. Fagan anywhere it 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:03.119 was fantastic because you know, my daughter Madison, who you know, 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:05.920 produced the doc and when she the last hold out 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:08.040 was Donald for the five songs to get licenses, and 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:10.040 so the whole deal with Donald was this, Okay, if 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:14.040 you do this, you know, call me up and record 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:15.360 it and put it just as I say. Then I'll 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:16.000 let you use the song. 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:19.600 So well, that's all he wanted. This his last middle finger. 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:22.160 Yeah uh Donald figure. 0:23:22.240 --> 0:23:25.359 Wow okay, but yeah, sure, I'm the poster child for 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:26.200 the whole yel rock. 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:29.800 Thinker amen own. It is legendary to me. Okay. So 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:34.320 the one thing I learned in the doc, especially when 0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:38.560 you're talking about your grammy journey, have you since that 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:43.240 night been able to properly speak to Barbara Streissan. 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:47.480 Never met her all this time. I saw at a 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:52.320 party once and Calvin Kleine. It was one of these, 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:54.280 you know, Hollywood parties, and I ran it a Calvin Kline, 0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:55.919 who I didn't over to start talking to him and 0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:59.800 I said something, Oh, there's Brobaras stressing. You know, I've 0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:01.400 never met her, and he said, she didn't like you. 0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:06.200 But you know what, I think the problem was I 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:08.119 have incredible respect for her and she and Barry and 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:11.199 they were up for guilty. But the problem was I 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:13.639 heard that somebody told her her press people said you 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:15.199 need to come to the awards because you're gonna win, 0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:19.520 and as you know, you know that's that's not really true. 0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:21.280 I don't think. I don't think anybody knows who's gonna 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:23.600 No one knows, you know. After I have messed new artist, 0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:25.040 I sat down. I was fine for the night. I 0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:26.880 was done, you know, they like and then other stuff 0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:29.240 started happening. So when Dinnah Ross, when she announced the 0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:30.959 album of the Year, I didn't know what to do. 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:36.960 I just what is the burden of that level of success. 0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:39.760 Well, it's kind of nowhere to go but down, you know, 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:41.399 like Elvis said, doing to be nice to people on 0:24:41.400 --> 0:24:43.080 the whip. If you don't want to plan on't come 0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:46.560 back down. For me, it was meteoric and I came 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:50.200 out of nowhere, and so there's almost nothing I could 0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:51.280 have done to sustain it. 0:24:51.440 --> 0:24:51.560 Now. 0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:53.399 I think another page of my second record was a 0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:56.440 bit ballid heavy, and the first record was much more eclectic. 0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:58.800 So but I've always made the records from where I 0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:01.600 was at emotionally, so I couldn't really control that. But 0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:03.639 maybe if I'd made a record like some of my 0:25:03.720 --> 0:25:05.840 later records, like Secret Letter in these that are more 0:25:07.080 --> 0:25:11.119 you know, diverse as a second record, maybe it's been different. 0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:13.159 But I got kind of labeled as a balladeer, especially 0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:15.840 after doing Arthur that was in between the first second records, 0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:17.560 and that's sort of oh that's who he is, you 0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:19.159 know kind of thing. But I wouldn't change it with 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:20.919 thing for the world. But no, it's a big burden, 0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:24.480 the sophomoric effort. I think everybody that's you know, Bruce 0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:27.240 hornsby Ricky Lee Jones, it's a tough Tracy Chapman, it's 0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:29.919 a tough thing to sort of try to do the 0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:32.480 gate duplicate that you know, and some people Billy Ollis 0:25:32.520 --> 0:25:35.359 is doing really well with it. But it's a yeah, 0:25:35.400 --> 0:25:37.359 it's just but you know, I wouldn't trade it for 0:25:37.359 --> 0:25:39.680 the world. Quest It's like, you know, the career I've had, 0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:42.280 I never would have imagined any of it. So I'm 0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:44.240 just thrilled at what's happened. 0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:48.760 Have you ever went through the Nirvana phase where I'm 0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:52.479 almost certain that a year after Nevermind came out like 0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:55.480 they refuse to do smells like teen spirit, like we're 0:25:55.560 --> 0:25:58.720 just not doing it? Like for you is was there 0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:02.320 a time where you could I don't feel like doing 0:26:02.400 --> 0:26:05.360 sailing tonight or I like to win. 0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:09.080 Well, you know, I feel it's a disservice to the audience. 0:26:09.160 --> 0:26:10.800 They paying for a ticket to come see you, and 0:26:10.840 --> 0:26:12.320 those are the songs they come to. I've got about 0:26:12.320 --> 0:26:14.560 six well known songs. So I was telling the guys 0:26:14.560 --> 0:26:17.040 earlier that sometimes I feel like I could play those 0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:19.760 six songs three times and it would be totally fine 0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:23.560 for the audience. But the biggest no, no, no, I'm 0:26:23.640 --> 0:26:25.439 thrilled with the songs. They're kind of like stones in 0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:27.160 the river that I step on to get across from 0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:29.880 a note e minute set. But I mean, it's it's tough. 0:26:29.920 --> 0:26:32.080 I've made twelve albums and I'm very fond of the 0:26:32.160 --> 0:26:34.680 later work, and it's tough that only a very few 0:26:34.680 --> 0:26:37.000 people I us know about these later deep cuts, but 0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:38.160 we do play some of them. 0:26:38.480 --> 0:26:42.480 How do you curate the big six next to what 0:26:42.600 --> 0:26:43.399 you really want to do? 0:26:43.760 --> 0:26:45.639 Well? You just like I said, there are little stones 0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:47.440 in the river. I just play them where I've got. 0:26:47.800 --> 0:26:49.680 I give them a little treat, you know, with a 0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:52.159 start with never be the Same or something, and then 0:26:52.200 --> 0:26:53.920 I'll sneak in a couple of deep cuts and about 0:26:53.920 --> 0:26:55.960 the time they're like, I'll go, oh wait a minute, 0:26:55.960 --> 0:26:59.520 here's sailing, you know. So, And like the other night, 0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:01.440 I had something happened and I had to do something 0:27:01.480 --> 0:27:03.880 acoustically because the PA went wrong. So I played Sailing 0:27:03.920 --> 0:27:07.000 again on the acoustic by myself and the audience sang 0:27:07.040 --> 0:27:09.240 along and everybody runs the event. He played it twice. 0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:11.680 You know, I literally think I could do the tune 0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:13.159 two or three times that, but I don't regret it. 0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:14.960 I mean, look, they put me on the map, so 0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:17.840 it's absolutely great. There are artists I know who who 0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:20.879 you know, they don't do that. They won't play certain 0:27:20.880 --> 0:27:22.280 songs and all that, and I think that's kind of 0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:24.560 a disservice to your fans, you know that. 0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:29.560 I think I shared this before we did a show 0:27:30.119 --> 0:27:33.440 like once a year when he's active, Dave Matthews will 0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:37.119 do like his personal festival where he curates all the 0:27:37.200 --> 0:27:41.880 artists that come whatever. And spin doctors were coming on 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:47.119 right before the Roots were about to perform, and like 0:27:47.320 --> 0:27:51.760 the way that like they treated two princes almost like 0:27:51.920 --> 0:27:55.760 it was filler, like it was the fourth song or 0:27:55.800 --> 0:27:58.120 the fifth song. They did it in such a strug way, 0:27:58.280 --> 0:28:01.600 like oh by the way, and I'm staying there at 0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:05.119 the side, like wait a minute, like you guys do 0:28:05.359 --> 0:28:08.439 know that this is the song that they came to 0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:12.520 hear and the fact that they had another forty to 0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:16.840 fifty minutes to go without any of their signature songs 0:28:16.880 --> 0:28:19.680 like was such a curious choice to me, but they 0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:23.239 sort of treated it like, we'll just make it our 0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:25.640 fifth song instead of like the encore or whatever. 0:28:25.720 --> 0:28:27.080 Well, you know, if I was elting John and I 0:28:27.119 --> 0:28:29.480 had I could play two hours of hits, I would 0:28:29.520 --> 0:28:32.000 have a problem, right. And then there's actually like Steely Dan, 0:28:32.640 --> 0:28:34.879 where you know, they haven't had really that many big 0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:39.360 hits on the radio, but every song's a hit. Oh well, man, 0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:41.200 you know, can't buy thrill in this early. But I'm 0:28:41.200 --> 0:28:42.760 saying they can play something. 0:28:42.680 --> 0:28:46.640 I know them for the filler. Actually, I know, like 0:28:46.800 --> 0:28:50.400 you know we we especially your first album, Like I 0:28:50.520 --> 0:28:54.440 thought half those songs were actual singles and hits. I 0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:57.000 didn't realize that only a few. 0:28:57.000 --> 0:28:58.120 But four of them were. 0:28:58.200 --> 0:29:02.480 Yes, yeah, but I identify arts based on their filler. 0:29:02.680 --> 0:29:04.800 Whatever makes it the radio makes it the radio. But 0:29:04.960 --> 0:29:06.840 for me, the true sign of an artist is what 0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:09.800 they do with the songs that aren't that. And so 0:29:10.120 --> 0:29:15.479 because equality is still high level to me, I just 0:29:15.520 --> 0:29:18.840 always I literally thought your entire first record was all 0:29:18.960 --> 0:29:19.760 singles that. 0:29:20.080 --> 0:29:22.440 God bless you to that I think that that you know, 0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:24.600 Dave Matthews is an artist who's kind of almost like, 0:29:24.600 --> 0:29:26.640 in my mind, almost like a deep cut artist because 0:29:26.640 --> 0:29:29.840 he's so esoteric. But I think for me, I'm kind 0:29:29.840 --> 0:29:32.959 of stuck with these songs that everybody knows. I wouldn't 0:29:33.000 --> 0:29:35.720 never not play them. I get a wonderful reaction to 0:29:35.760 --> 0:29:38.480 them that makes me feel great. But the only downside is, 0:29:38.480 --> 0:29:40.040 like I said, i'd say half two thirds of the 0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:42.480 audience in my opinion from what I can feel, they 0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:45.720 come for those songs, and then some people are receptive. 0:29:45.880 --> 0:29:47.320 But I'll start the show. I go learn to from 0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:50.840 James Taylor. James up with a blackboard and he'll say, 0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:53.680 here's the first set, here's the second, here's Bibe James, 0:29:53.760 --> 0:29:56.120 here's fire and Rain. But I'm also going to be 0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:58.520 playing some I just saw James. He said, I'm gonna 0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:00.760 be playing some songs for my new record, and he said, 0:30:00.800 --> 0:30:02.840 I know what you're saying is goddamn new songs, but 0:30:02.880 --> 0:30:04.720 he said I want to play them, and it was good, 0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:06.959 and I do that too. I'll say, listen, hopefully we're 0:30:06.960 --> 0:30:08.160 going to play all the songs you came to hear, 0:30:08.200 --> 0:30:10.080 but we're also going to play some deep cuts later. 0:30:10.280 --> 0:30:12.480 I hope you enjoy them, because otherwise you wouldn't hear them. 0:30:12.720 --> 0:30:15.960 And you know, people they do try, but they're never 0:30:16.000 --> 0:30:18.000 getting the reaction to a deep cut that you would. 0:30:18.040 --> 0:30:19.760 But then again, some guy in the audience will yell 0:30:19.800 --> 0:30:23.240 out some obscure tune, you know. Okay, so, but and 0:30:23.360 --> 0:30:28.720 maybe I underestimate how much the audience knows about other 0:30:28.800 --> 0:30:31.280 songs and deep cuts just because of amun insecurity. But 0:30:31.360 --> 0:30:33.840 you know, I think it's all a blessing and a curse. 0:30:33.880 --> 0:30:41.440 You know, what is the best compliment a fan has 0:30:41.480 --> 0:30:45.120 given you about your music? And what's the best compliment 0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:47.920 that appear has given you about your music? 0:30:48.400 --> 0:30:52.320 Well, the best compliment a fan, let's see, or the 0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:55.400 most surprising one. Well, somebody said to me, this is 0:30:55.440 --> 0:30:59.120 a tune. I have a window album called Angry young Men, 0:30:59.760 --> 0:31:03.360 and it's about teenangs and stuff. And there's a line 0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:06.400 that says to come to maturity with some sense of dignity, 0:31:06.880 --> 0:31:10.440 and I really mean it about personal growth. But he said, 0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:12.959 you know that line in your song. He said, I 0:31:13.000 --> 0:31:14.880 know what it means, but I also think it applies 0:31:14.920 --> 0:31:17.040 to your career because you said you've managed to maintain 0:31:17.080 --> 0:31:19.280 your dignity throughout all these records you've made because you 0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:21.480 just you keep doing the best work you can and 0:31:21.520 --> 0:31:24.040 all this stuff. And I loved that comment. And then 0:31:25.240 --> 0:31:29.040 the nicest comment I heard from Maurice White, Rest of 0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:31.640 Soul It's starting Marri's White one day and I said, 0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:34.400 you know, vocally, I'm kind of ethnically challenged, you know, 0:31:35.120 --> 0:31:40.600 And Maurice said, man, it's not about that, man, I 0:31:40.600 --> 0:31:41.720 can feel it when you sing. 0:31:42.360 --> 0:31:42.680 True. 0:31:43.000 --> 0:31:46.560 And that was like very heavy for me for Maurice 0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:47.760 to say that to me. And I think what he 0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:50.880 was trying to say was, look, man, that stuff's cool, 0:31:50.960 --> 0:31:54.760 but like the important thing is can somebody feel when 0:31:54.800 --> 0:31:56.560 you're singing? And he said, I feel it when you sing? Man. 0:31:56.640 --> 0:32:00.160 That was probably one of them really took it to heart. 0:32:00.200 --> 0:32:01.080 That was pretty wonderful. 0:32:01.320 --> 0:32:06.480 So all right, so you're a Texas musician, but you're 0:32:07.520 --> 0:32:10.280 kind of the poster child of what we associate as 0:32:10.320 --> 0:32:18.760 the southern California right sound. What is traditionally Texan about 0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:22.280 your music or your songwriting that critics get wrong? What 0:32:22.360 --> 0:32:25.120 do you feel is in your Texas roots that is 0:32:25.160 --> 0:32:25.800 in your music? 0:32:25.920 --> 0:32:28.520 Well, I think right, like the wind is. Certainly it's 0:32:28.640 --> 0:32:30.840 sort of based on all these cowboy serials I used 0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:32.880 to watch, you know, and also living in San Antonio, 0:32:33.240 --> 0:32:36.400 there was an allure fascination with going into Mexico because 0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:38.040 when you were a kid, it was like debauchery and 0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:39.840 it was all the stuff you could got down there 0:32:39.840 --> 0:32:41.240 your parents didn't want you to do. You know, I 0:32:41.240 --> 0:32:44.200 could just get over to Mexico. You could drink tequila 0:32:44.200 --> 0:32:47.920 and you could do crazy shit. So but I'll admit that, 0:32:48.080 --> 0:32:50.200 you know, even in Austin, a lot of people because 0:32:50.200 --> 0:32:52.600 they moved to Austin pretty early on in sixty nine, 0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:54.480 you know, I was a fish out of water, you know, 0:32:54.600 --> 0:32:57.440 Austin some more of a blues roadhouse kind of country 0:32:57.520 --> 0:32:59.760 music kind of vibe. And so I never really fit 0:32:59.800 --> 0:33:01.800 in as far as my music. And of course I 0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:06.720 always identified, you know, with the Beach Boys in southern California, 0:33:06.760 --> 0:33:08.960 so Johnny Mitchell and all that stuff. And so I 0:33:09.040 --> 0:33:12.480 admit that I'm not your typical Texan kind of sounding artist. 0:33:13.440 --> 0:33:15.800 Was very influenced by Billy Gibbons as a guitarist, and 0:33:16.120 --> 0:33:19.360 Zzi's amazing, but you know, Texan is Texas is known 0:33:19.400 --> 0:33:22.160 for the Stevie Ray kind of vibe, and I think 0:33:22.200 --> 0:33:24.160 now in Texas. The problem is, if you go to 0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:26.840 a globe in Texas, you hear all these young guitar 0:33:26.880 --> 0:33:29.040 players who are trying to be Stevie Ray. And a 0:33:29.040 --> 0:33:31.680 friend of mine coined a great phrase that they're Stevie 0:33:31.720 --> 0:33:37.160 Ray vannabees, and you want to go, look, you're not 0:33:37.920 --> 0:33:40.960 You're not Stevie Ray and stop trying to be him, 0:33:40.960 --> 0:33:44.000 because there was only one Stevie Ray. But anyway, yeah, 0:33:44.080 --> 0:33:47.200 I'm not your typical I don't really, except for Right 0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:49.040 at the Wind, which kind of has those roots. I mean, 0:33:49.800 --> 0:33:51.720 I don't know, I think that you're right. I'm kind 0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:54.200 of more of a southern California boy, you know, with 0:33:54.360 --> 0:33:57.360 what and I grew up you know, Jonny Mitchell, Dave Crosby, 0:33:57.400 --> 0:34:01.240 acoustic guitars. That's why the whole MTV video thing didn't 0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:03.440 really I didn't connect and resonate with that too well 0:34:03.480 --> 0:34:05.080 because it wasn't how I grew up. I grew up 0:34:05.160 --> 0:34:06.160 with songwriters. 0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:10.480 I was gonna say that because you didn't appear on 0:34:10.560 --> 0:34:14.880 your album covers or like rarely in your videos. Again 0:34:15.680 --> 0:34:21.080 in retrospect, especially with a song like right Like the 0:34:21.120 --> 0:34:25.120 Winner and sailing, Like if Stevie Wonder made videos for 0:34:25.280 --> 0:34:27.880 songs in the Key of Life, I'd be disappointed because 0:34:28.000 --> 0:34:32.960 I have the exact picture of, you know, whatever synaestiesia 0:34:33.040 --> 0:34:36.359 level that I have of what I think those songs are, 0:34:36.480 --> 0:34:39.120 as we all do with anything that we heard pre 0:34:39.560 --> 0:34:44.000 nineteen eighty one. But knowing what you know now, would 0:34:44.000 --> 0:34:48.239 you have leaned into getting heavy into videos, knowing that 0:34:48.719 --> 0:34:52.680 you're probably the last artist that could pull the anonymous 0:34:52.719 --> 0:34:59.200 trick and reap in millions in sales? But retroactively, do 0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:02.400 you think that you would have played that card a 0:35:02.400 --> 0:35:03.120 little bit different? 0:35:03.440 --> 0:35:04.840 Well, I mean, the truth of it is, you know, 0:35:05.360 --> 0:35:07.279 the video thing came along very much litt But I 0:35:07.280 --> 0:35:10.760 will say I think videos in general, at least early on, 0:35:11.239 --> 0:35:13.960 to me, they sort of obscured the lyrical landscape of 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:15.640 somebody like Joni Mitchell. I don't want to see a 0:35:15.680 --> 0:35:19.880 Joni Mitchell video. You know, she's so brilliant that I 0:35:19.920 --> 0:35:21.839 want to just paint my own picture of my head 0:35:21.840 --> 0:35:24.160 for whatever she and I'd rediscover her lyrics. All tam 0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:25.839 Sam was steely down. I mean, the only video Donal 0:35:25.880 --> 0:35:28.960 ever made it was New Frontier, which he didn't play himself, right, 0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:31.799 But I'll admit. Look, the first album, that cover was 0:35:31.840 --> 0:35:34.480 painted by a drummer, Jimmy Newhouse, that I was working 0:35:34.520 --> 0:35:35.800 with at the time, and he showed it to me 0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:37.440 and said, I think this is what your music looked like. 0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:38.759 So I brought it to Warners and they did it. 0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:43.600 But I'll admit too, you know, I was overweight, I 0:35:43.640 --> 0:35:47.279 certainly do look like Brad Pitt, and so I was 0:35:47.280 --> 0:35:49.840 pretty self conscious, and so I wasn't that interested in 0:35:49.880 --> 0:35:52.399 putting my picture on the cover. 0:35:52.640 --> 0:35:52.799 You know. 0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:55.160 In fact, I remember it at Howard Sterns show. Robin said, 0:35:56.560 --> 0:35:58.399 you know, she made some crack about the fact that 0:35:58.480 --> 0:36:00.560 she loved my voice, but she said, I was disappointed 0:36:00.560 --> 0:36:02.520 when I saw you. I thought you'd looked like Kenny Loggins. 0:36:03.719 --> 0:36:04.440 Oh god. 0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:08.000 And Howard jumped to my defense, you know, but uh 0:36:08.400 --> 0:36:11.400 but anyway, so I think part of it's that was 0:36:11.440 --> 0:36:13.680 just my being self conscious about my own appearance that 0:36:13.719 --> 0:36:17.760 I didn't really you know, I look like Rick Springfield 0:36:17.840 --> 0:36:19.400 or something. I probably would have put a picture everywhere, 0:36:19.400 --> 0:36:22.120 but so and then the video thing, I just physically 0:36:22.200 --> 0:36:24.160 wasn't used to doing that kind of thing, and it 0:36:24.200 --> 0:36:26.200 wasn't Also what I was drawn to because the artists 0:36:26.239 --> 0:36:30.719 that I reveal, like Randy Newman, you know, Jony uh They, 0:36:31.480 --> 0:36:34.400 Tom Waits. You know, Tom's much more theatrical now. But 0:36:34.480 --> 0:36:37.360 you know, it just it wasn't ever present at that point, 0:36:37.400 --> 0:36:48.440 so I didn't acclimate to it. 0:36:51.000 --> 0:36:56.239 What was your relationship with the Warnicker and Austin like 0:36:56.280 --> 0:36:58.600 the Warner Brothers family during that time period. 0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:02.319 Well, Michael Aston most the one that signed me. He 0:37:02.520 --> 0:37:04.719 a kind of an interesting story real quick. I was 0:37:04.760 --> 0:37:06.680 sending my demos and from Texas. You know, I'd make 0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:08.719 these demos in the studio and I would send it 0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:12.720 to Warner Brothers. And I looked in the Billboard magazine 0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:15.000 because I didn't anything about an R. I didn't anything 0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:16.960 about that stuff. I looked in there and there was 0:37:17.560 --> 0:37:20.160 Moe Austin, chairman of the board, and then below him 0:37:20.200 --> 0:37:22.880 was David Berson, who was his assistant. So I said, okay, 0:37:23.200 --> 0:37:25.600 I'll send my tape to David Berson. I did anything 0:37:25.640 --> 0:37:28.959 about an R. Lenny Worthy couple. I send my tape 0:37:28.960 --> 0:37:31.239 to David person who'd never gotten a tape. He was 0:37:31.280 --> 0:37:34.400 a lawyer in Moe's office, okay, and he'd never gotten 0:37:34.400 --> 0:37:36.439 a tape from anybody. So he's going to have lunch 0:37:36.440 --> 0:37:38.319 with Lenny worker that day, and he said, hey, check 0:37:38.360 --> 0:37:39.839 this tape out I got in the mail. Lenny said, 0:37:39.840 --> 0:37:41.960 give me a break, I'm at lunch. Puts it in 0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:44.200 and Lenny says, you know what, I kind of like 0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:46.160 his voice. Give it to me. And that's how it 0:37:46.160 --> 0:37:47.799 all got started. To give it to Michael Austin to 0:37:47.840 --> 0:37:49.920 check it out, and then it all and Michael ended 0:37:49.960 --> 0:37:53.160 up signing me. But I actually the sertatipitous nature of it. 0:37:53.480 --> 0:37:56.200 I sent my tape to the wrong guy, and Lenny 0:37:56.239 --> 0:37:58.359 told me at the time they were not accepting any 0:37:58.360 --> 0:38:01.320 outside material unless it came from a known producer of somebody. 0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:03.319 So he said, chances are your tape would have been 0:38:03.320 --> 0:38:06.120 putting an envelope and sent back to you. Thanks, no thanks, 0:38:06.239 --> 0:38:08.880 But because you sent it to the wrong guy and 0:38:08.920 --> 0:38:12.719 he played it for me, then you got heard and 0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:15.399 we started a dialogue. But now I was very close 0:38:15.440 --> 0:38:17.480 with Russ and Lenny, and I'm still close with all 0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:19.680 of them. Michael, I saw Michael recently lost his house 0:38:19.719 --> 0:38:22.480 in Pelsas for Sadley, but yeah, yeah, those guys were 0:38:22.480 --> 0:38:24.800 the guys at the time, you know, they were producing 0:38:25.120 --> 0:38:27.120 Brandy and Ricky Lee and all that. And I always 0:38:27.120 --> 0:38:29.080 wanted to be on Warner Brothers because you know, they 0:38:29.080 --> 0:38:32.040 had Ben Morrison and Joni and they the artist. They 0:38:32.080 --> 0:38:34.279 seemed like more of a naturally, the whole building was 0:38:34.280 --> 0:38:36.720 all wood, and it was a different vibe than MCA 0:38:36.840 --> 0:38:39.680 or one of the big corporate companies. So but no, yeah, 0:38:39.680 --> 0:38:41.080 that's how it all went down for me. Man, I 0:38:41.120 --> 0:38:42.319 sent my tape to the wrong guy. 0:38:42.800 --> 0:38:45.680 So there was a time period in which a record 0:38:45.760 --> 0:38:50.120 label felt like home and we're nurturing and you could 0:38:50.160 --> 0:38:53.800 go to those guys and like, when's your version of 0:38:54.080 --> 0:38:58.160 the Mason Dixon line of suddenly this just became a 0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:02.600 corporation and suits without I always heard that Warner Brothers 0:39:02.680 --> 0:39:04.200 was like a home. 0:39:04.440 --> 0:39:06.879 It was, and I think based on what I saw 0:39:06.920 --> 0:39:09.960 from other companies, you know, not to pick on Memsia 0:39:09.960 --> 0:39:12.920 of these more corporate well, you know, Napster probably was 0:39:12.960 --> 0:39:15.600 the beginning of kind of all that. But I'll say that, like, 0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:18.919 you know, Moe started Repriets with Frank Sinatra, and Moe's 0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:21.719 was a record guy, you know, from the beginning, and 0:39:22.640 --> 0:39:25.279 so there was a different feel there. I mean, I 0:39:25.320 --> 0:39:27.279 think that there was a true love of music there, 0:39:27.320 --> 0:39:30.279 and so it was a very different vibe of I 0:39:30.320 --> 0:39:32.200 met a lot of people like I was at Warner 0:39:32.200 --> 0:39:33.560 Brothers in New York and met Vegan, you know, so 0:39:33.920 --> 0:39:36.600 there was it was a camaraderie there. Anyway, answer your question, 0:39:36.640 --> 0:39:38.640 I don't know. I mean I will say one thing. 0:39:38.680 --> 0:39:41.000 You know, I'm seventy five soon. And there was a 0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:43.520 cycle of life back then. People talk about the record companies. 0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:45.959 Yes they charged too much for CDs. Granted they could 0:39:45.960 --> 0:39:49.160 have sold for five bucks. But regardless, I sold ten 0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:52.440 million records and Warners probably made a hundred million dollars 0:39:52.680 --> 0:39:55.680 whatever and whatever I made. But there was a cycle 0:39:55.719 --> 0:39:57.440 to life. You know, you wrote songs, you went in 0:39:57.440 --> 0:40:00.960 the studio at their expense, with producers, You made a record, 0:40:01.719 --> 0:40:03.560 went out on the road, went to record stores and 0:40:03.560 --> 0:40:05.720 did in stores, went to the radio. There was any 0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:07.520 way back into the studio. There was a cycle of 0:40:07.600 --> 0:40:09.719 life back then to this whole thing, and you were 0:40:09.760 --> 0:40:11.560 not responsible for a lot of it. Didn't have to 0:40:11.600 --> 0:40:13.360 come up with the money, didn't have to promote their record, 0:40:13.360 --> 0:40:14.640 didn't have to do all this stuff. So I don't 0:40:14.680 --> 0:40:16.920 begrudge them for the money they made. Plus it was 0:40:17.000 --> 0:40:19.640 kind of sweet because you just wrote music and toured 0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:23.239 and played. Now whether granted there's a lot of advantages 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:25.080 the YouTube and pro tools and all this stuff you 0:40:25.120 --> 0:40:27.839 can do in your house, but promoting yourself, it's all 0:40:27.880 --> 0:40:30.160 left up to you, and so I lament the loss 0:40:30.160 --> 0:40:31.800 of all that. It was a pretty cool model. 0:40:32.480 --> 0:40:35.040 So how do you How did you wind up choosing 0:40:35.280 --> 0:40:40.839 the personnel for your first album and subsequently, I mean 0:40:41.440 --> 0:40:44.480 they worked on at least the first foard like Michael 0:40:44.680 --> 0:40:45.200 uh oh. 0:40:45.200 --> 0:40:48.120 Michael Lomarti and was just signed as a staff producer. 0:40:48.920 --> 0:40:52.719 Oh so he see, I didn't come along at a 0:40:52.760 --> 0:40:56.279 time in which like house producers, right produced, like so 0:40:56.520 --> 0:40:58.040 Russ Titlement was also. 0:40:58.040 --> 0:41:01.960 Staff producer Lenny Warnicker Ted Temple, So this is why, right, 0:41:02.000 --> 0:41:05.000 and so Michael had been you know, played Longinson Messina 0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:07.680 and he's from Chicago and Michael and Marty and he 0:41:07.760 --> 0:41:10.920 has just been signed. And then Michael Austin brought me 0:41:10.960 --> 0:41:13.319 to Warner Bros. For the meeting. I was actually kind 0:41:13.320 --> 0:41:15.080 of a dick. He introduced me to know Marty and 0:41:15.120 --> 0:41:17.000 I was like, okay, what's up? And I was looking 0:41:17.040 --> 0:41:19.440 around for Ted Templemanute Gary Katz around who's right. 0:41:19.480 --> 0:41:20.160 Right, right? 0:41:21.080 --> 0:41:25.040 And so finally Michael Austin could tell the meeting was 0:41:25.080 --> 0:41:27.480 not going well, and he said, you know, Michael and 0:41:27.520 --> 0:41:29.000 Marty and played on a lot of Steely dance stuff. 0:41:29.040 --> 0:41:31.080 And I said, because he knew I was Steely Frisson, 0:41:31.480 --> 0:41:34.160 really like what Michael and Michael and Marty and humbly said, 0:41:34.200 --> 0:41:38.640 well like everything you know? So this this is great, 0:41:38.640 --> 0:41:40.360 so I said, And so I said, you know, I 0:41:40.440 --> 0:41:42.600 just come from Texas and I don't know anything. So 0:41:42.640 --> 0:41:45.399 I said to him, you know Larry Carlton and he goes, yeah, sure. 0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:47.480 I said, can you get in to plan my record? 0:41:47.960 --> 0:41:49.960 And he said sure? And I said, you know, he 0:41:49.960 --> 0:41:51.880 doesn't do sessions anymore, he's like an artist now and 0:41:51.880 --> 0:41:53.200 he said no, but I know very pretty well. I 0:41:53.200 --> 0:41:55.279 think I can play Brik. So here's the deal. If 0:41:55.320 --> 0:41:57.200 you can get Larry Carlton to plan my record, you 0:41:57.200 --> 0:41:59.239 can produce my record. And that was the agreement that 0:41:59.280 --> 0:42:02.879 I made that day. Okay, and later on years later, 0:42:02.920 --> 0:42:04.719 when I told Carlton the story said, I should have 0:42:04.760 --> 0:42:05.480 been getting points. 0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:07.400 It came in hot. Okay. 0:42:07.480 --> 0:42:11.040 Yeah, but and then so but the original band they 0:42:11.040 --> 0:42:13.040 were from Texas. They were the original band that I 0:42:13.120 --> 0:42:14.920 that I formed back in Texas, and they played on 0:42:14.960 --> 0:42:18.960 the first record, and uh one tune think of Laura 0:42:18.960 --> 0:42:21.239 on the second record. But you know, Marty and was 0:42:21.320 --> 0:42:23.480 used to Steely Dan and used to session musicians. So 0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:26.040 the second record we went with Steve gadd Nae Bilberril 0:42:26.120 --> 0:42:28.040 Senior and we started going down that road and Toto 0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:30.160 and all those people, so we started going there, you know. 0:42:30.840 --> 0:42:33.920 But that was the model I always dreamt of. You know, 0:42:34.080 --> 0:42:36.359 Steely's always been my sort of template for the kind 0:42:36.360 --> 0:42:38.000 of records I wanted to make. So when I had 0:42:38.000 --> 0:42:39.799 the opportunity to play with Gad and these guys, when 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:40.400 I was thrilled. 0:42:40.800 --> 0:42:45.480 Oh man, and there, Carl, did you at any point 0:42:45.960 --> 0:42:49.719 just have a video camera handy like taping your sessions? 0:42:49.800 --> 0:42:51.080 Just to I think that. I don't think it was 0:42:51.200 --> 0:42:55.120 video cameras then there was. There was I think the polaroids. Yeah, 0:42:55.160 --> 0:42:57.160 but no, but it was it was I was my 0:42:57.200 --> 0:42:59.560 own fly on the wall because it was I started 0:42:59.560 --> 0:43:02.400 out as a you know originally, and and I believe me, 0:43:02.840 --> 0:43:05.920 all these guys I worked with, like Jeff and Steve 0:43:06.000 --> 0:43:09.320 and Vinnie and all these guys, I mean just fantastic players. 0:43:09.440 --> 0:43:11.359 It was kind of a dream come true because I 0:43:11.440 --> 0:43:13.239 was kind of, like I said, living the Steely dream. 0:43:13.320 --> 0:43:15.799 I was working with all the same musicians that they 0:43:15.800 --> 0:43:18.400 worked with, and I wanted to make those kind of records. 0:43:18.480 --> 0:43:22.239 I wanted to make that kind of sophisticated pop. 0:43:22.280 --> 0:43:24.800 You know. Okay, now I feel like such an imposter, 0:43:24.960 --> 0:43:27.520 but like my guitar player, Kirk is living in my 0:43:27.560 --> 0:43:28.160 head right now. 0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:29.239 It's like love him. 0:43:29.280 --> 0:43:32.840 You never asked you as guitarist, like what gear they like, 0:43:33.000 --> 0:43:35.720 because people want to know, like what were you using? 0:43:36.040 --> 0:43:39.200 What was your your acts of choice for that particular 0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:41.400 album to get that clean sound. 0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:43.839 Well, stratt, you know, certainly a strat for those days, 0:43:43.840 --> 0:43:45.360 and I think it was playing fenders, you know, it 0:43:45.440 --> 0:43:49.600 was not that remarkable strat fenders and I think that, 0:43:49.880 --> 0:43:52.320 you know, my like I said, my my guitar heroes 0:43:52.360 --> 0:43:55.120 were you know, Gibbons and Jeff Beck and you know, 0:43:55.480 --> 0:43:58.000 people like that, Larry Carlton. But yeah, I've always been 0:43:58.040 --> 0:43:59.880 a gearhead, but yeah, it was it was more of 0:43:59.880 --> 0:44:04.160 the production style of getting these players in the studio 0:44:04.680 --> 0:44:06.480 who kind of make the magic. You know, you bring 0:44:06.520 --> 0:44:09.360 in a tune with a chart and they expound on 0:44:09.400 --> 0:44:11.600 that harmonically, you know, they bring a thing to it, 0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:14.520 like even Fagan. I think Donald plays well, but I 0:44:14.520 --> 0:44:17.279 think Greg fill gains Can, Marty and these guys can 0:44:17.480 --> 0:44:20.319 you know, spread their fingers bigger than Olascar Peterson style, right, 0:44:20.880 --> 0:44:23.800 And so that's one of the things I loved about 0:44:23.800 --> 0:44:26.439 what Amartian did for the music is playing, but also 0:44:26.440 --> 0:44:28.399 the string arrangements and everything like that. 0:44:28.480 --> 0:44:32.200 Yeah, I was going to say, like for songwriting sessions 0:44:32.239 --> 0:44:37.080 because of Michael's mastery of keyboards and just the way 0:44:37.080 --> 0:44:40.520 he thinks in terms of chord progressions and whatnot, how 0:44:40.560 --> 0:44:44.720 did that open up your world as far as ideas 0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:46.600 you had in your head, Because I mean I've heard 0:44:47.440 --> 0:44:50.200 the demos of the stuff you did. So the demos 0:44:50.200 --> 0:44:51.839 that you did, did you do those on your own? 0:44:52.080 --> 0:44:53.600 Well, get them on my own, and I think they're 0:44:53.680 --> 0:44:55.439 very I said in my box set, I think they're 0:44:55.600 --> 0:44:58.480 very The bones are there, you know, the bones are 0:44:58.520 --> 0:45:01.040 there that we a Marty and of course played, He 0:45:01.040 --> 0:45:03.400 did the string arrangements, He did things to the music 0:45:03.440 --> 0:45:06.240 to make it, you know, more sophisticated. But the bones 0:45:06.320 --> 0:45:08.920 on sailing right out the when those those tunes, uh, 0:45:09.040 --> 0:45:10.520 you know, we had such a long way to go 0:45:10.520 --> 0:45:13.000 in all those parts because singing him but but A 0:45:13.080 --> 0:45:15.720 Martian brought some wonderful things to it. And I think 0:45:16.160 --> 0:45:18.400 for me at one moment with a Marty that was 0:45:18.400 --> 0:45:21.399 funny was he's probably the most talented cat I've ever 0:45:21.440 --> 0:45:24.799 worked with. He's just incredibly powerful. But he at one 0:45:24.800 --> 0:45:26.719 point he was second record. I think he was doing 0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:29.160 some takedowns. I was playing him a new tune. He 0:45:29.239 --> 0:45:32.000 was doing some takedowns and I noticed he's writing ahead 0:45:32.600 --> 0:45:35.080 of what I'm playing for him really, and I was like, 0:45:35.680 --> 0:45:37.640 what the fuck? Man? You know I didn't play that 0:45:37.719 --> 0:45:39.279 cord yet He goes, well, I mean I know your 0:45:39.320 --> 0:45:43.640 style harmonically, so I just figured monitor and I said, well, man, 0:45:43.640 --> 0:45:45.520 I feel like I kind of a chump here. But 0:45:45.520 --> 0:45:48.680 but you know, he he's he's so brilliant that he 0:45:48.880 --> 0:45:51.080 could do that. But no, he brought a lot, a 0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:56.000 lot to the music. And Uh. In fact, the on Sailing, 0:45:56.120 --> 0:45:58.920 the solo song was written and we had a synth 0:45:58.960 --> 0:46:02.560 solo on it, on the solo and Sailing, and I 0:46:02.600 --> 0:46:04.960 came back to the studio after being at dinner or 0:46:04.960 --> 0:46:06.719 something and Michael was seen the lights for him singing 0:46:06.719 --> 0:46:08.799 at the Grand piano and he said, I've got someone 0:46:08.800 --> 0:46:10.960 want you to hear. He had played the solo to Sailing, 0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:14.160 you know, and it was exquisite. But I was so 0:46:14.200 --> 0:46:16.920 wrapped into the Steely Dan thing that he said, and 0:46:16.960 --> 0:46:18.560 it was it was really emotional for him. He was 0:46:18.680 --> 0:46:20.520 very proud of it, and he said, and deservedly so. 0:46:21.040 --> 0:46:22.439 But he said, what do you think? And I said 0:46:22.560 --> 0:46:24.279 it's pretty beautiful. But I said, I think there's a 0:46:24.280 --> 0:46:26.360 note in the second bar that's a little late. And 0:46:26.440 --> 0:46:29.839 he said what And I said, I mean Steely Dan 0:46:29.880 --> 0:46:31.759 would never let that go. And he just went, you 0:46:31.800 --> 0:46:36.200 know what, man, I am so I am so sick 0:46:36.200 --> 0:46:39.759 of hearing about Steely Dan. And he got his portion left, 0:46:39.800 --> 0:46:42.000 you know, and he'd wait, yeah, he just said, you 0:46:42.040 --> 0:46:44.120 know what, man, if you don't get And of course 0:46:44.160 --> 0:46:45.640 I listened to it a few times and when of 0:46:45.640 --> 0:46:48.600 course it's exquisite, perfect, but I was so wrapped up 0:46:48.600 --> 0:46:50.680 in the perfection of how Donald Walter worked that it 0:46:50.760 --> 0:46:52.560 was like and he done all those records. 0:46:52.680 --> 0:46:54.520 Were you afraid of being too pristine? 0:46:55.040 --> 0:46:57.320 No, the more pristine the better. And of course people 0:46:57.320 --> 0:46:59.880 say Steely's too sterile and all that stuff. I hear 0:47:00.000 --> 0:47:04.200 those arguments. But for me, I mean they're as first 0:47:04.239 --> 0:47:07.080 of pop record making at the time, and even it 0:47:07.080 --> 0:47:10.320 holds up. I mean they're the masters that in my opinion, can. 0:47:10.160 --> 0:47:13.200 You rank your top five steal the albums? Because the 0:47:13.239 --> 0:47:16.840 thing is, I know that entire catalog, but it's not 0:47:17.080 --> 0:47:19.799 because I put it on the record and listen to it. 0:47:20.320 --> 0:47:22.719 I just happen to be at a place where I'll 0:47:22.760 --> 0:47:25.840 catch this verse of this bar. Maybe I'll be on 0:47:25.840 --> 0:47:28.080 the airplane. Remember they used to curate the music for 0:47:28.120 --> 0:47:30.839 you with those little plastic headphones. You hear a song 0:47:30.920 --> 0:47:34.160 or whatever. I know all the songs. 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:34.560 Like. 0:47:35.520 --> 0:47:38.360 A great example is uh, it's so hard to pronounce 0:47:38.400 --> 0:47:44.560 a lot of yeah votasofa I could never say that word. 0:47:45.160 --> 0:47:45.839 What is it again? 0:47:45.960 --> 0:47:48.759 Bots means like a guru, you know? 0:47:49.840 --> 0:47:53.520 All right? So I think, for one, I'm a weird 0:47:53.640 --> 0:48:00.319 kid that in a three thousand album household there be 0:48:01.040 --> 0:48:04.239 a bunch of records that had scary looking covers. To me, 0:48:05.560 --> 0:48:09.319 so the Royal Scam album covered this is probably why 0:48:09.360 --> 0:48:11.880 I got turned off the silly Dan The Royal Scam 0:48:11.920 --> 0:48:16.880 album covered with the buildings with things. Nah, I couldn't 0:48:16.920 --> 0:48:20.160 do that, so I would hide certain records that were 0:48:20.200 --> 0:48:23.040 scary to me, either the bottom of the pile or 0:48:23.080 --> 0:48:27.080 like away in the household, and Royal Scam was one 0:48:27.080 --> 0:48:30.160 of those things. Which was weird because once we got 0:48:30.160 --> 0:48:33.920 into the sampling age and everyone's praising Conye for this, 0:48:34.120 --> 0:48:36.840 you know, genius level sampling and steely damn record, and 0:48:36.840 --> 0:48:39.840 I'm realizing that too, these things came from Royal Scam. 0:48:39.840 --> 0:48:42.640 I was like, damn, Like I did myself a deserve 0:48:42.760 --> 0:48:44.920 is not studying this record because I was scared of 0:48:44.960 --> 0:48:45.440 the album cover. 0:48:45.560 --> 0:48:47.960 Yeah, kids, Charlot Man on that record score. So my 0:48:48.000 --> 0:48:50.520 best top five stuff can't buy thrill met all of them. 0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:53.279 Pretzel logic, you know, Royal Scam. 0:48:53.080 --> 0:48:55.359 Or Katy, what's your number? What's your fifth record? 0:48:56.040 --> 0:48:58.120 Katie Laude? Asia? Of course Asia? 0:48:58.360 --> 0:48:59.600 You know so Asia is number four? 0:49:00.440 --> 0:49:03.239 Well it's a tough one, man. You're uh, Asia? 0:49:03.400 --> 0:49:06.760 All right? You could save one album from their catalog? 0:49:07.080 --> 0:49:11.000 What is it They're going to give you permission to 0:49:11.080 --> 0:49:14.440 curate a box set for? Just what's the album that 0:49:14.480 --> 0:49:15.879 you want to dive into the most? 0:49:16.760 --> 0:49:19.879 Well, probably Asia only because I think for all of us, 0:49:20.560 --> 0:49:23.279 that's when the big shift moved, when they started to 0:49:23.320 --> 0:49:25.600 really go into the jazz idiom thing, us jazz players 0:49:25.600 --> 0:49:27.400 and all that stuff, and it kind of blew up. 0:49:27.440 --> 0:49:29.560 But it's mind when they and They'll said the same thing, 0:49:29.560 --> 0:49:32.319 when they started to really let that influence come out, 0:49:32.680 --> 0:49:35.759 their influences from the jazz era. So I think it's 0:49:35.800 --> 0:49:39.680 an incredibly gorgeous record. You know, the cover was painted 0:49:39.719 --> 0:49:41.120 by that comedian Phil Hartman. 0:49:41.680 --> 0:49:42.200 I learned this. 0:49:42.440 --> 0:49:46.480 Yeah, yeah, but but no, I think Asia's you know, 0:49:46.680 --> 0:49:50.360 it's Joni. I read something recently. She loves Galcho and 0:49:50.480 --> 0:49:52.719 Asia both. She just loved and loves them both, and 0:49:52.760 --> 0:49:54.719 she she really has a lot of respect for them. 0:49:54.719 --> 0:49:57.480 I mean, I think, I mean all this the later 0:49:58.000 --> 0:49:59.960 all the records they've made then of course kamic here 0:50:00.080 --> 0:50:01.279 and some of the stuff they did later it was 0:50:01.320 --> 0:50:04.400 more groove stuff. But yeah, and then Nightfly when Walter 0:50:04.600 --> 0:50:07.319 was not doing well. I was in the studio when 0:50:07.320 --> 0:50:07.680 they were. 0:50:07.560 --> 0:50:10.520 Always wondered why that wasn't a Steely Dan record as 0:50:10.520 --> 0:50:12.200 opposed to a Fagan solo record. 0:50:12.280 --> 0:50:15.440 Well, Walter, to my knowledge, Walter was you know, using 0:50:15.560 --> 0:50:18.640 whatever crossing the street and near was sit by a 0:50:18.680 --> 0:50:21.040 cab leg broken pretty bad. He was in the hospital 0:50:21.040 --> 0:50:23.000 for like a year, so during that time they had 0:50:23.040 --> 0:50:26.840 started Gaucho and Donald finished Gaucho on his own. And 0:50:26.880 --> 0:50:28.319 I actually got to go in the studio when they 0:50:28.320 --> 0:50:31.160 were when Donald's working on Gaucho. And then after that, 0:50:31.760 --> 0:50:35.040 you know, Donald made Nightfly just because Walter was not around, 0:50:35.440 --> 0:50:38.560 so he made a solo record and that's the story 0:50:38.760 --> 0:50:40.000 I heard. But and then I got to be in 0:50:40.000 --> 0:50:41.520 the studio in New York when he was doing and 0:50:41.680 --> 0:50:43.239 we're going on a new Frontier or something, so it 0:50:43.280 --> 0:50:43.839 was pretty cool. 0:50:43.840 --> 0:50:45.399 But you have to witness that. 0:50:45.480 --> 0:50:47.719 Yeah, well, Donald, I'd be up with New Frontier. I 0:50:47.760 --> 0:50:51.000 was down there for that. Also, Roger Nichols's engineer was a 0:50:50.960 --> 0:50:52.560 good friend of mine, and Gary would Katz would have 0:50:52.760 --> 0:50:54.880 be down sometimes and Donald was fine with it. But 0:50:54.880 --> 0:50:57.160 but yeah, I think Gaucho Donald finished on his own, 0:50:57.200 --> 0:51:00.279 and then Nightfly he did. But yeah, it was because 0:51:00.280 --> 0:51:01.719 Walter wasn't doing well. 0:51:02.080 --> 0:51:07.479 Yeah, when so legendary drummer James Gatson had passed away 0:51:07.560 --> 0:51:13.880 earlier yes year, and I revisited all of his session 0:51:13.880 --> 0:51:15.759 work and you know, of course I know that he 0:51:16.040 --> 0:51:19.600 is on Nightfly. Like for me, I will say, like 0:51:19.760 --> 0:51:25.560 ig wise, if I had to choose a soundtrack for 0:51:25.719 --> 0:51:30.280 like a nonspecific but a very happy moment in my life. 0:51:31.320 --> 0:51:33.880 Like I don't know what it was about what was 0:51:33.920 --> 0:51:39.239 happening in November December of eighty two, seventh grade, but 0:51:40.080 --> 0:51:43.680 every time I hear that song, like it takes me back. 0:51:43.840 --> 0:51:48.840 And the thing is is that that wasn't a rosy 0:51:48.920 --> 0:51:51.239 picture of my life. But I think the purpose of 0:51:51.320 --> 0:51:56.160 music is to appear in your life as the highlight 0:51:56.280 --> 0:52:00.200 to an otherwise drab and dreary time. So like for 0:52:00.280 --> 0:52:07.440 me hearing hearing those records, especially with New Frontier and 0:52:07.480 --> 0:52:08.879 everything like that. 0:52:08.520 --> 0:52:11.319 That, yeah, it was just you know, Greg filling Gains 0:52:11.360 --> 0:52:13.359 up until just very recently he was in Toto, working 0:52:13.400 --> 0:52:16.640 with Toto. Now I think he's playing with Sammy Hagar. 0:52:16.680 --> 0:52:19.600 But anyway, Greg played on my GUI and uh no, 0:52:19.719 --> 0:52:23.200 it's funny with them because you know, you're right, it's 0:52:23.200 --> 0:52:25.520 such a wonderful field to that tune. And yet you know, 0:52:25.600 --> 0:52:27.080 most of the time you see Donald, he doesn't look 0:52:27.120 --> 0:52:28.880 like the happiest guy. And I just saw a funny 0:52:28.920 --> 0:52:31.480 thing about Steely DWN the ten funniest things they ever said, 0:52:31.480 --> 0:52:34.120 and one of them was Walter was interviewed and they said, 0:52:34.239 --> 0:52:36.920 do you guys have any hobbies or pastimes, and Walter 0:52:37.040 --> 0:52:43.760 said brooding. Brooding is a big one, which I loved. 0:52:44.120 --> 0:52:46.759 How did you wind up being friends with them? 0:52:46.840 --> 0:52:49.440 Because well, I can't say so. Well, I can't say 0:52:49.440 --> 0:52:51.680 I'm really friends with Donald. I mean, we're aint. He's 0:52:51.760 --> 0:52:53.560 like so many people in this business. I know, not 0:52:53.640 --> 0:52:55.719 like something like Michael McDonald I'm very close to. But 0:52:55.960 --> 0:52:58.279 Donald's an acquaintance. You know, we're friendly when I see him. 0:52:58.280 --> 0:53:00.400 But I met him years ago at Warner brother But 0:53:00.600 --> 0:53:03.920 you know, he's not the most at least in my experience, 0:53:04.000 --> 0:53:06.520 not the warmest. Yeah, warm and fuzzy. He's not that 0:53:06.600 --> 0:53:08.719 easy to get to talk to. Walter was more affable. 0:53:08.719 --> 0:53:11.040 But yeah, I mean, I'm just such an awe the guy. 0:53:11.080 --> 0:53:13.920 But I've been, you know, fortunate to be. I got 0:53:14.000 --> 0:53:16.000 invited down with my cats to those two sessions and 0:53:16.000 --> 0:53:18.719 stuff like that. He's actually wonderful. It's just you know, 0:53:18.800 --> 0:53:21.200 he's not a big talker. You know, he doesn't really 0:53:21.280 --> 0:53:23.080 gives you one word answers or stuffing that maybe not 0:53:23.080 --> 0:53:24.680 to other people he knows real well. 0:53:24.719 --> 0:53:28.160 But you know, I think in I forget the album 0:53:28.239 --> 0:53:31.200 that they worked on in the nineties, but cats called 0:53:31.200 --> 0:53:33.520 me in if I'm doing more than three takes, then 0:53:33.560 --> 0:53:36.480 something's wrong. You know, normally I can nail what you 0:53:36.560 --> 0:53:41.399 want in two takes. I think I got out there 0:53:41.520 --> 0:53:44.759 in two hours, right, They were like, okay, let's do 0:53:44.800 --> 0:53:47.239 it again. I think they have this theory where it's 0:53:47.320 --> 0:53:51.440 like they want you to be not so studied but 0:53:51.520 --> 0:53:54.600 like muscle memory. And I think by that point in 0:53:54.719 --> 0:53:59.080 ninety four, I was so helping on being such a 0:53:59.200 --> 0:54:04.080 perfectionist metronome, and they kept trying to get me like 0:54:04.160 --> 0:54:07.600 what you know, like play looser, you know, play more 0:54:07.640 --> 0:54:10.960 purple or yeah, I'd get finally when I like when 0:54:10.960 --> 0:54:14.280 I finally got to DiAngelo, who you know, the magic 0:54:14.280 --> 0:54:18.439 of playing with DiAngelo was you know, the sloppier you are, 0:54:18.719 --> 0:54:22.040 the more. But in my mind, I'm thinking of like 0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:26.200 all the drummers in all city high school and obstacles 0:54:26.239 --> 0:54:29.719 I had to like overcome as far as like technique 0:54:29.719 --> 0:54:33.080 and especially now, like you know, musicians are so help 0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:36.520 bent on look mino hands and this technique I have 0:54:36.640 --> 0:54:41.319 and whatever. So just to undo the perfection and just. 0:54:42.000 --> 0:54:45.000 If you should have doctor Bernard pretty for you went 0:54:45.040 --> 0:54:46.640 to do the session because you know when Bernard did 0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:49.879 Babylon Sisters. Michael was on the date, so was Chuck Raindy, 0:54:50.160 --> 0:54:52.360 and Michael told me that, oh wasn't there, but Michael 0:54:52.360 --> 0:54:55.239 told me that first take. Bernard got up and walked out, 0:54:55.560 --> 0:55:00.719 said I got my part and already, and then Chuck 0:55:00.800 --> 0:55:02.680 Rady looked at each other and like, no one walks 0:55:02.680 --> 0:55:05.960 out on Steely Dan. So then Donald Walter listened to 0:55:06.040 --> 0:55:08.239 the board and said he's right, and he got first take. 0:55:08.640 --> 0:55:10.000 So you got to have his Bravados. 0:55:11.760 --> 0:55:14.000 Party did a session for my dad once and my 0:55:14.120 --> 0:55:16.840 dad introduced me to him. I think it was like 0:55:16.880 --> 0:55:20.160 two or three and my dad says, come here, he says, 0:55:20.320 --> 0:55:21.680 do you know this is I was like no, and 0:55:21.680 --> 0:55:25.560 he's Bernard Party. He's like, Bernard, tell me how do 0:55:25.600 --> 0:55:28.799 you keep food on the table? And Bernard's like the 0:55:28.840 --> 0:55:32.200 two and the four and I didn't understand what that meant. 0:55:33.320 --> 0:55:39.400 But basically, the more straight ahead you are not fancy. 0:55:39.640 --> 0:55:41.400 Then well of course he you know, he did the 0:55:41.400 --> 0:55:42.800 famous pretty shuffle, which. 0:55:42.640 --> 0:55:59.719 Is yes, nothing but Grace notes right exactly, all right. 0:55:59.719 --> 0:56:05.400 So you paint this picture of an outlaw on the 0:56:05.480 --> 0:56:09.200 run and whatever headed for the border? Did you base 0:56:09.280 --> 0:56:12.120 that character on a movie that you saw or a 0:56:12.200 --> 0:56:14.719 dream that that you had, Like, what, what was the 0:56:14.760 --> 0:56:16.480 basis of your outlaw character? 0:56:16.600 --> 0:56:19.320 For well, when I was my dad was a doctor 0:56:19.360 --> 0:56:22.239 in the army, So back then you go to the 0:56:22.280 --> 0:56:24.120 movies for twenty five cents. So we'd go to the 0:56:24.200 --> 0:56:26.359 movie theater on the base and they would have these 0:56:26.400 --> 0:56:29.360 cowboy serials like The Lone Ranger or Hoplng Cassidy and 0:56:29.400 --> 0:56:32.320 these kind of guys, and they were always chasing the outlaw, 0:56:32.600 --> 0:56:34.759 you know, and trying to catch them before he made 0:56:34.760 --> 0:56:37.719 it to Mexico. And even though they never showed what 0:56:37.760 --> 0:56:41.000 went on there, you know, the rumors grew and so 0:56:41.120 --> 0:56:43.200 it was just like it was, like said Teenagster, the 0:56:43.600 --> 0:56:48.080 anarchism of just escaping your parents' control. So Mexico became 0:56:48.160 --> 0:56:51.960 this mystical world of like debauchery, that you could go 0:56:52.000 --> 0:56:54.640 down there and drink and you could do stuff you 0:56:54.640 --> 0:56:56.759 know that your parents would hate. So that's kind of 0:56:56.760 --> 0:56:58.000 what it's about. If I could just make it at 0:56:58.000 --> 0:57:00.719 the border in Mexico, like the Onion. The Onion some 0:57:00.840 --> 0:57:03.560 years ago had a thing it said Christopher Cross finally 0:57:03.560 --> 0:57:07.080 made it to the border of Mexico. But interesting story 0:57:07.120 --> 0:57:09.160 for you is I don't know I ever told this on 0:57:09.280 --> 0:57:11.319 a thing. So we used to play the club, you know, 0:57:11.480 --> 0:57:13.839 covers and stuff like that, and I have to tell 0:57:13.920 --> 0:57:17.000 McCartney this unless he checked your bucket. I don't think 0:57:17.000 --> 0:57:19.160 I ever told Paul. But we were doing nineteen eighty 0:57:19.200 --> 0:57:22.040 five the Wings tune, and we you know, we played 0:57:22.080 --> 0:57:24.120 four or five hours and nights. He had extend tunes 0:57:24.120 --> 0:57:25.760 and all this stuff as a dance floor. So we're 0:57:25.760 --> 0:57:27.800 playing nineteen eighty five. It's a C minor. So we're 0:57:27.880 --> 0:57:30.840 playing nineteen five getting into a jam and people are dancing. 0:57:30.840 --> 0:57:35.080 And I started doing that and people I noticed that 0:57:35.120 --> 0:57:37.040 they were like really getting into it, you know, and 0:57:37.080 --> 0:57:38.480 it was another level of energy. 0:57:39.000 --> 0:57:41.240 Nineteen eighty five. That's where the inspiration for that center 0:57:41.240 --> 0:57:42.000 around came from. 0:57:42.040 --> 0:57:44.240 So I took that part and I went, you know, 0:57:44.240 --> 0:57:47.120 there's something about this that's got the thing. So then 0:57:47.120 --> 0:57:49.600 I wrote the tune around that. I had that part first, 0:57:49.600 --> 0:57:50.680 and then I wrote the verses. 0:57:53.000 --> 0:57:53.480 Damn. 0:57:53.880 --> 0:57:56.120 And I don't think I've ever told Paul that. He's 0:57:56.120 --> 0:57:59.720 probably gonna say I should have got a royalties. He 0:57:59.800 --> 0:58:02.800 is enough royaltieth, But no, that's it. The seat of 0:58:02.840 --> 0:58:05.600 the song came from my Tenay McCartney, I ripped them off. 0:58:06.800 --> 0:58:09.400 I love that turn around man, wow. 0:58:09.600 --> 0:58:11.280 And but I had that and then I had to 0:58:11.280 --> 0:58:13.840 build a song around it. And then of course I 0:58:13.920 --> 0:58:16.400 mentioned the doc, the yacht rock doc, that I had 0:58:16.400 --> 0:58:19.480 the music all finally finished and we're driving down to 0:58:19.520 --> 0:58:21.760 you know, from Houston or gig descent to Austin. When 0:58:21.760 --> 0:58:23.120 I went to record the thing. That's when I said 0:58:23.160 --> 0:58:24.800 to the doc, which I got all this bad stuff 0:58:24.840 --> 0:58:27.200 whereas I took a hit acid and were in the 0:58:27.240 --> 0:58:29.480 car and I wrote the lyrics on the way down to. 0:58:29.520 --> 0:58:32.240 Austin that made you even cooler than me, Like, well. 0:58:32.240 --> 0:58:34.360 Yes, a couple of these guys you probably know them 0:58:34.360 --> 0:58:36.880 that they were on they have some kind of podcast 0:58:36.880 --> 0:58:38.880 thing and my daughter sent it to me, said these 0:58:38.880 --> 0:58:42.280 guys are really cool and they're like yeah, man, all right, 0:58:42.760 --> 0:58:45.040 Christopher Cross so weed, you know, and they were like 0:58:45.080 --> 0:58:49.480 totally up. Well, your generation maybe, well, but for my generation. 0:58:49.200 --> 0:58:52.120 I'm not. There's nothing more majority about me at all, 0:58:52.240 --> 0:58:55.400 like you know, when you have that magic part. And 0:58:55.440 --> 0:58:57.680 this is what I always wanted to know about song structuring, 0:58:58.440 --> 0:59:03.120 because for my world, when we're mining for gold, especially 0:59:04.000 --> 0:59:06.760 in terms of where classic hip hop was where a 0:59:06.760 --> 0:59:10.360 lot of the music was derived from sampling from other records. 0:59:10.840 --> 0:59:14.840 You're always searching for the perfect four bars or the 0:59:14.840 --> 0:59:20.480 perfect eight bars to make your foundation. When you have 0:59:21.200 --> 0:59:25.800 a magical idea that's based on that, why didn't you 0:59:25.880 --> 0:59:30.920 make that the main course? Now, granted, the way the 0:59:31.040 --> 0:59:34.760 song is structured now Chef's kiss, I wouldn't change a 0:59:34.840 --> 0:59:38.760 thing like that coming at the end made it more magic. 0:59:38.880 --> 0:59:41.040 But at one point, were you trying to build the 0:59:41.080 --> 0:59:43.040 song just around that turnaround? 0:59:43.240 --> 0:59:45.720 No, I felt it was kind of an instrumental bridge. 0:59:45.760 --> 0:59:48.440 I did, so you knew that that's your your victory 0:59:48.520 --> 0:59:50.360 lap and you have to work backwards, right. 0:59:50.400 --> 0:59:53.360 And also from all my other song writing influences, you know, 0:59:53.400 --> 0:59:56.080 I had vers in Beatles. Hey, you know a BA 0:59:56.200 --> 0:59:58.560 B you know how to have a chorus and a 0:59:58.960 --> 1:00:00.960 verse and a chorus and stuff like that, and well 1:00:00.960 --> 1:00:04.240 that's ABC. Yeah, well well it is, well, got such 1:00:04.280 --> 1:00:05.800 a long way to go. It's sort of the chorus. 1:00:05.840 --> 1:00:08.640 But but no, like was sailing as an example, like 1:00:08.720 --> 1:00:10.160 I was sitting in my kitchen. 1:00:10.480 --> 1:00:12.560 Oh damn, see, I always thought that is the bridge. 1:00:12.640 --> 1:00:14.360 No, the chorus has got such a long way to go, 1:00:15.480 --> 1:00:21.080 that's the chorus and the bridge is that okay, you 1:00:21.160 --> 1:00:22.040 know what, it's. 1:00:22.000 --> 1:00:22.280 You know what. 1:00:23.800 --> 1:00:26.320 Quest it's semantics, man, whatever you call it. You're the boss, 1:00:26.320 --> 1:00:28.720 you know whatever. No to me, got such a long 1:00:28.760 --> 1:00:30.680 way to go? It's the chorus and then the bridge 1:00:30.720 --> 1:00:31.240 is about it. 1:00:31.240 --> 1:00:34.120 Up part Yeah, but then you return to the a 1:00:34.280 --> 1:00:34.960 part to say. 1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:39.600 Yeah, I would go to another verse, but you know, ah. 1:00:39.520 --> 1:00:43.600 Damn, it's okay. So weird that we're seeing the song structure. 1:00:43.200 --> 1:00:45.680 In a word, pretty interesting. I kind of dig it. 1:00:45.560 --> 1:00:47.920 The roots like you right now, because the roots and 1:00:47.960 --> 1:00:52.640 I argue like this where we'll battle over where's the one? 1:00:52.960 --> 1:00:55.480 And of course it's my band, so I get you know, 1:00:55.560 --> 1:00:59.040 House Rulves. But God, now that you put that in 1:00:59.120 --> 1:01:02.920 my head because in my mind I tend to make 1:01:02.960 --> 1:01:06.680 these little short list or whatever, and in my mind 1:01:07.400 --> 1:01:10.920 I love right like the wind because I was like, wow, 1:01:11.080 --> 1:01:15.400 the song is so strong that even his bridge is 1:01:15.440 --> 1:01:18.560 stronger than the chorus, Like the chorus doesn't exist because 1:01:19.440 --> 1:01:23.520 his bridge just nails it. But you see that, Okay, 1:01:23.600 --> 1:01:26.479 If that's the case, then or what would you called 1:01:26.480 --> 1:01:30.000 the song? Why'd you call it a long way to go? 1:01:30.560 --> 1:01:33.000 Well? Because I'm just a genius but. 1:01:33.000 --> 1:01:35.520 No, don't you love the nerve of me trying. 1:01:35.320 --> 1:01:39.480 To I think, Okay, check it out. I think it's interesting. 1:01:39.680 --> 1:01:42.840 I wish's call Mike Joll say okay, when run like 1:01:42.880 --> 1:01:44.440 the Wind, like, what do you think the chorus is? 1:01:44.480 --> 1:01:46.640 And I've never thought this is you bring something whole new. 1:01:46.760 --> 1:01:49.240 I think asking you're musician friends, like right like the wind, 1:01:49.320 --> 1:01:51.560 what's the chorus? And see what they say. I could 1:01:51.640 --> 1:01:53.960 be completely mistaken. I've been thinking about my whole career. 1:01:54.080 --> 1:01:57.000 Wow, this is always thought that the verses of the 1:01:57.120 --> 1:02:01.080 verse and then the first change in the first change 1:02:01.080 --> 1:02:04.160 in the song is a bridge that's going to lead 1:02:04.240 --> 1:02:07.760 us to a destination which is so all ride like 1:02:07.800 --> 1:02:10.880 the wind, right like the wind, which isn't It's. 1:02:10.800 --> 1:02:13.000 Kind of a reprieve. But I think and I got 1:02:13.240 --> 1:02:15.320 a long way to go, such a long big that's 1:02:15.360 --> 1:02:16.040 the chorus. 1:02:16.560 --> 1:02:19.680 Okay, I mean, let's v on this kid. 1:02:20.120 --> 1:02:22.560 Yeah, what do I know? I only wrote the song, but. 1:02:23.120 --> 1:02:25.320 I'm gonna let you have this. But in my mind, no. 1:02:25.280 --> 1:02:28.320 I think you should. I think you should ask. I 1:02:28.360 --> 1:02:30.560 remember one of the great things that that mean was 1:02:30.640 --> 1:02:33.600 Jimmy Jaan Terry Lewis told me that they were in 1:02:33.640 --> 1:02:36.320 the car and right like the wind came on, they 1:02:36.320 --> 1:02:37.680 pulled over into a parking lot. 1:02:38.240 --> 1:02:42.960 Yo. They always whenever song comes over, they always pull over. 1:02:43.160 --> 1:02:45.400 And they were telling me they pulled up over the 1:02:45.440 --> 1:02:49.640 parking lot and turn it up really loud, and Jimmy 1:02:49.680 --> 1:02:52.520 Terry was saying, what the fuck is this? You know, 1:02:52.560 --> 1:02:54.440 because they said the whole thing with the strings and 1:02:54.440 --> 1:02:56.720 all that stuff, just as producers they were checking it out. 1:02:56.880 --> 1:02:58.520 But yeah, I don't know, we know what seriously was 1:02:58.560 --> 1:03:01.640 sailing Like Joni Mitchell uses of modal tunings because she 1:03:01.640 --> 1:03:03.840 had polio as a child and all that, so I 1:03:03.880 --> 1:03:06.080 got all that from her, the tuning thing, so sailings 1:03:06.080 --> 1:03:08.439 in a modal tuning. And when I wrote that song, 1:03:09.160 --> 1:03:11.080 and that's why this sort of mystical thing of the 1:03:11.080 --> 1:03:14.400 stuff gets beamed down, I don't completely disagree because I'm 1:03:14.640 --> 1:03:17.280 sitting around just when I started playing that data at 1:03:17.280 --> 1:03:19.120 a riff and out of the blue, I just sang 1:03:19.160 --> 1:03:24.520 the first verse and chorus just unsolicited. So then I 1:03:24.560 --> 1:03:26.480 had the verse, verse and the chorus. So then I 1:03:26.560 --> 1:03:28.760 started writing with a pen and paper, like it's not 1:03:28.880 --> 1:03:31.000 Farda Never never Land all that stuff. But I did 1:03:31.040 --> 1:03:34.040 not have any kind of a bridge. I had this 1:03:34.560 --> 1:03:37.800 versus and choruses for two years quest because it's in 1:03:37.840 --> 1:03:40.640 a modal it can get very linear and sort of stagnant, 1:03:41.240 --> 1:03:43.520 and so it took me about two years to come 1:03:43.560 --> 1:03:46.640 up with the bridge, the piano solo part, which changes 1:03:46.720 --> 1:03:48.840 keys and everything to lift it out of the modality 1:03:48.880 --> 1:03:51.000 of the modal tuning thing, because sometimes moddal tunings are 1:03:51.080 --> 1:03:53.400 kind of drone and all that. So, yeah, the whole 1:03:53.400 --> 1:03:55.920 process of this is pretty interesting because but the initial 1:03:55.960 --> 1:03:58.040 part of sailing, I got to say, I don't argue 1:03:58.040 --> 1:04:00.280 that I don't know where it came from, and I'm 1:04:00.320 --> 1:04:02.760 not one of those kind of guys. But it came 1:04:02.800 --> 1:04:06.240 out of nowhere. I just sang, it's not far down 1:04:06.280 --> 1:04:07.560 to Paradi at least it's not familiar. 1:04:07.600 --> 1:04:08.000 Win is right. 1:04:08.160 --> 1:04:11.040 Literally just unsolicited it August and then the chorus and 1:04:11.240 --> 1:04:12.919 all without thinking about it. 1:04:13.200 --> 1:04:16.880 During this period. What are your weapons of choices? Because oftentimes, 1:04:17.440 --> 1:04:19.640 and I asked this a lot of songwriters, especially now 1:04:19.640 --> 1:04:24.120 with the iPhones, when I get an idea and I'm alone, 1:04:24.800 --> 1:04:30.760 I will baseline, okay, first guitar line, rhythm, guitar part, 1:04:31.600 --> 1:04:33.800 and then I'll return to it four days later. And 1:04:33.840 --> 1:04:38.560 it is all just gibberish, and I never how do 1:04:38.600 --> 1:04:42.840 you document when something hits you or do you just suffer? 1:04:43.760 --> 1:04:46.040 Well, when I got up, when I came up with 1:04:46.080 --> 1:04:49.800 the verse and chorus part, I got up off the linoleum, 1:04:49.880 --> 1:04:52.320 sure it was on, and just went, wow, that is 1:04:52.360 --> 1:04:54.400 that's something there that I got something. I'm wanted something 1:04:54.440 --> 1:04:56.400 here with this, And then I just kept playing and 1:04:56.400 --> 1:04:59.640 planet planet Now. Sometimes you know, I'll do a little chart, 1:04:59.720 --> 1:05:02.400 kind of write a little chart of the chords and 1:05:02.400 --> 1:05:02.920 stuff like that. 1:05:03.000 --> 1:05:05.480 I forgot about that part again, you get actually no, we. 1:05:05.440 --> 1:05:07.080 Had no way to record and that kind of stuff 1:05:07.080 --> 1:05:08.560 and nothing like that. But no, you just play it 1:05:08.560 --> 1:05:11.760 repetitively to you. And of course I was sober at 1:05:11.760 --> 1:05:14.720 the moment, but usually with me if I was high 1:05:14.840 --> 1:05:16.560 or something and wrote a song that I thought it 1:05:16.600 --> 1:05:18.000 was brilliant. The next day when I wake up and 1:05:18.000 --> 1:05:20.120 listened to it, and I went, this is all you know, 1:05:21.080 --> 1:05:23.080 I think that happens to a lot of people. 1:05:23.040 --> 1:05:25.800 So not enough. It's made about you just having a 1:05:25.880 --> 1:05:29.320 world class voice and the beauty and the tone of 1:05:29.360 --> 1:05:33.120 your voice. The guitar solo in right like the wind. 1:05:33.800 --> 1:05:34.400 You did the. 1:05:34.320 --> 1:05:35.560 Honors I did yes. 1:05:35.680 --> 1:05:42.120 However, I mean, you had access to Graden Lucifer, like, 1:05:42.320 --> 1:05:46.640 you know, all the aces of that particular moment. What 1:05:46.840 --> 1:05:51.320 was the decision in having you nailing the guitar solo? 1:05:52.840 --> 1:05:56.360 You know, I'm not really sure. Maybe o'martian said, hey, 1:05:56.360 --> 1:05:57.959 you should play a solo on something, you know, because 1:05:57.960 --> 1:06:00.000 I was so enamored by Jay and Larrying all these people. 1:06:00.720 --> 1:06:04.120 I mean, with the second record with Steve Luke atther 1:06:04.200 --> 1:06:06.680 when he played some solos on stuff, and of course 1:06:06.760 --> 1:06:08.680 Eric Johnson was on the first record. A lot of 1:06:08.680 --> 1:06:10.720 those guys encouraged me to kind of, you know, how 1:06:10.800 --> 1:06:13.040 you should play something. But I don't know. I think 1:06:13.080 --> 1:06:15.360 maybe Omartian said, hey, you should play a guitar solo 1:06:15.440 --> 1:06:17.160 on something. But I'm not really sure how that all 1:06:17.160 --> 1:06:19.560 went down, but I played it. But interestingly, you know, 1:06:20.000 --> 1:06:22.240 Biato just did a show about this is the greatest 1:06:22.280 --> 1:06:24.800 guitar solo you never heard, because it's kind of buried 1:06:24.840 --> 1:06:27.440 in a wall of sound, but it sticks with you. 1:06:27.480 --> 1:06:30.240 But so he did a thing where he soloed it 1:06:30.280 --> 1:06:33.720 and then he did everything about it, and you know, 1:06:34.000 --> 1:06:36.040 I thought it was really nice, but I didn't think 1:06:36.080 --> 1:06:38.160 too much about it. But I was so enamored by 1:06:38.960 --> 1:06:40.800 you know, Eric Johnson who I grew up with, and 1:06:40.840 --> 1:06:42.840 all these guitar players that I just wanted them to 1:06:42.840 --> 1:06:44.440 do everything. You know. It was like they're so great. 1:06:44.480 --> 1:06:46.600 But I think encouragement. Larry may have said to me, 1:06:46.720 --> 1:06:48.200 hey man, you know you should play something, you know, 1:06:48.240 --> 1:06:51.040 So they were happy to do the session work. But 1:06:51.080 --> 1:06:53.240 they were all very supportive about me planned. But yeah, 1:06:53.280 --> 1:06:55.920 that's one of those that just and also it's probably 1:06:55.960 --> 1:07:00.640 the most suited to my style, you know. And uh 1:07:01.280 --> 1:07:03.920 and I told you my early influences for certainly Billy Gibbons, 1:07:03.960 --> 1:07:06.320 but you know Jeff Beck and Desuals. 1:07:06.680 --> 1:07:09.680 Now, I don't know if this is who who engineered 1:07:09.760 --> 1:07:10.960 the first album. 1:07:10.760 --> 1:07:14.280 I got named Chet Himes, great great engineer. 1:07:14.320 --> 1:07:15.360 What else didst Way? 1:07:15.360 --> 1:07:18.240 He didn't do much else. He he did that and 1:07:18.480 --> 1:07:21.000 kind of struggled with some substance stuff, and then he 1:07:21.000 --> 1:07:22.800 passed away. But he was he was nominated for a 1:07:22.840 --> 1:07:25.880 Grammy but he didn't win. But brilliant guy and did 1:07:25.920 --> 1:07:28.680 that first record and he did the second record, but 1:07:28.720 --> 1:07:29.520 then he passed away. 1:07:29.520 --> 1:07:33.480 And so yeah, you know McDonald's voice on your your 1:07:33.560 --> 1:07:37.280 records is such a specific I mean you know, there's 1:07:37.320 --> 1:07:42.080 not enough superlatives for what Michael McDonald brings to the 1:07:42.080 --> 1:07:45.720 table as far as like his harmonies and and but 1:07:45.840 --> 1:07:53.000 I'd always wanted to know, especially for his his very 1:07:53.040 --> 1:07:59.320 distinctive baritone, that is there some sort of consideration frequency 1:07:59.440 --> 1:08:03.720 wise wise or even chord wise because he is an instrument. 1:08:04.000 --> 1:08:08.080 I think he's an instrument more than he is a voice, 1:08:08.320 --> 1:08:13.720 and so is there any consideration to make space for 1:08:13.840 --> 1:08:16.320 him to shine through? Like okay, well let's not use 1:08:16.360 --> 1:08:20.080 this particular patch of keyboard or oftentimes if I work 1:08:20.160 --> 1:08:22.439 on a song, especially with singers that are heavy into 1:08:22.520 --> 1:08:26.960 harmony one, I have to sacrifice myself. There's certain records 1:08:26.960 --> 1:08:30.200 in which the rhythm is there, but I'm not fully 1:08:30.200 --> 1:08:31.880 playing drums. 1:08:31.600 --> 1:08:35.000 Like oh, Charlie whilst leaving off the high you. 1:08:35.040 --> 1:08:37.400 See where I'm going. Like at the time, did you 1:08:37.960 --> 1:08:42.760 know that McDonald was going to kind of paint all 1:08:42.800 --> 1:08:47.160 over your walls as you're tracking the rhythm section or 1:08:47.360 --> 1:08:48.480 was that just an. 1:08:48.560 --> 1:08:50.200 Yeah, I'd like to take credit, but I do. I mean, 1:08:50.280 --> 1:08:52.680 like in the documentary, Yeah Rock document there's a thing 1:08:52.720 --> 1:08:57.599 where Gary and Gary said Donald. Fagan said of McDonald, 1:08:57.600 --> 1:08:59.880 he sounds like a Herd of Camel's you know he 1:09:00.160 --> 1:09:03.080 does well. So what happened was we were cutting. We 1:09:03.080 --> 1:09:05.120 were in the studio cutting the first record, and Michael 1:09:05.160 --> 1:09:07.519 was kind of taking the streets next door. It's studio. Hey, 1:09:07.520 --> 1:09:10.520 we were in the studio at Warners. So Marty and 1:09:10.560 --> 1:09:12.839 Martin went over and said, hey, you know, I'm producing 1:09:12.880 --> 1:09:14.839 this kid from Texas. She's coming to check it out. 1:09:15.280 --> 1:09:17.000 And Michael and Bonald came over and listened to what 1:09:17.000 --> 1:09:19.240 we were doing, and we're actually doing a really song. Really, 1:09:19.240 --> 1:09:23.160 I don't know anymore, and McDonald said, wow, man. Michael 1:09:23.200 --> 1:09:25.880 said the funniest thing. He said, you know, man, uh, 1:09:26.760 --> 1:09:28.439 you know this experience you have when you come to 1:09:28.479 --> 1:09:32.080 somebody else's session and you think, why doesn't our session 1:09:32.160 --> 1:09:32.760 sound this good? 1:09:33.840 --> 1:09:36.639 Oh yeah, when you're on someone else's things like. 1:09:36.600 --> 1:09:38.479 This sounds amazing. So that he said, if you need 1:09:38.479 --> 1:09:40.800 any background votos to let me know. So we stuck 1:09:40.840 --> 1:09:42.240 on Mike and his face and he sang on that. 1:09:42.320 --> 1:09:44.000 Then we got around doing rod like the Wind. We 1:09:44.080 --> 1:09:46.080 had such a long way to go and we were 1:09:46.080 --> 1:09:48.280 singing it, and of course then we realized, wow, there's 1:09:48.280 --> 1:09:50.160 only one cat to do this. So and then as 1:09:50.200 --> 1:09:51.880 the year's gone on. He sang on so many things, 1:09:51.880 --> 1:09:55.960 but I don't know that we really made a thing. 1:09:56.000 --> 1:09:57.240 But at the end of ride like the wind, the 1:09:57.240 --> 1:09:59.360 complaint with a lot of people in my guitar sols baried. 1:09:59.400 --> 1:10:01.960 He more not feel spectr but kind of a wall 1:10:02.000 --> 1:10:03.920 of sound. You got the strings, you got Mike's voice, 1:10:03.920 --> 1:10:06.760 you got all this stuff happening. And it's funny because 1:10:06.760 --> 1:10:09.080 people say to me, you and Mike sound so good together, 1:10:09.080 --> 1:10:11.479 and I'm like, what are you talking about. We're completely different, 1:10:11.880 --> 1:10:13.360 you know, in our style and everything we do. I 1:10:13.360 --> 1:10:15.400 love him to know these incredible as no one like him, 1:10:15.800 --> 1:10:18.719 but you know, he comes from a completely different place 1:10:18.760 --> 1:10:22.240 than I do, and our voices are really really different. 1:10:22.479 --> 1:10:24.800 But maybe that's the charm in it. But either way, yeah, 1:10:24.920 --> 1:10:28.040 I don't recall this in terms of mixing, but you 1:10:28.040 --> 1:10:30.479 know what mixing was. I'm not great at that. My 1:10:30.880 --> 1:10:33.519 contributions would be like, call me when you're pretty close 1:10:33.560 --> 1:10:34.800 and I'll come in and tell you what I think. 1:10:34.840 --> 1:10:36.719 You know, sorry, bring this up. Bring that. I don't 1:10:36.720 --> 1:10:37.880 have the patience to sit there and like. 1:10:37.920 --> 1:10:40.760 Mass oh, so you're not a micromanager in well. 1:10:40.760 --> 1:10:43.280 And it's funny because steely, you know Donald is, but 1:10:43.439 --> 1:10:46.120 I guess, but no, I'm more like, okay, we cut 1:10:46.160 --> 1:10:48.320 the record, you know, get it to a place where 1:10:48.320 --> 1:10:49.840 you can play it for me, and then I'll I'll 1:10:49.840 --> 1:10:52.240 tell you had a snared up shool loud or I 1:10:52.280 --> 1:10:54.400 have good I have good instincts, I think with the 1:10:54.479 --> 1:10:56.800 overall soundscape, but I'm not big on sitting there going 1:10:56.840 --> 1:10:58.080 you know, let's listen to the Snares. 1:10:58.680 --> 1:11:02.600 Maxing is my heaven, like well, because I love to 1:11:02.640 --> 1:11:05.920 hear when a song. Do you get demo? Okay? Well, 1:11:06.600 --> 1:11:09.559 all right, I'm so excited about everything you said. I'm 1:11:09.640 --> 1:11:13.040 like losing my composer here in terms of being professional, 1:11:14.000 --> 1:11:18.240 do you get demo itis? In terms of if you 1:11:18.320 --> 1:11:23.760 live with a rough mix too long when it's perfected 1:11:23.800 --> 1:11:29.599 in cleaner and everything, do you still like find yourself like, ah, 1:11:29.800 --> 1:11:33.080 the demo was where we captured the magic or or 1:11:33.120 --> 1:11:39.000 are you willing to now accept the new finalized? 1:11:39.640 --> 1:11:41.639 Oh yeah, I only want to improve. I mean when 1:11:41.840 --> 1:11:43.960 we brought in the original demos, the eight songs of 1:11:43.960 --> 1:11:46.280 what I've gave to warners, you know, we had the 1:11:46.320 --> 1:11:48.479 demos and that's what they signed me off of. But 1:11:48.760 --> 1:11:50.679 when we started going to the studio, in a real 1:11:50.680 --> 1:11:53.600 studio with all the stuff and Amartian. I was not 1:11:54.240 --> 1:11:57.000 resistant at all to like, you know, wanting things to 1:11:57.000 --> 1:11:59.840 get you know, more polished and better what Marchael brought 1:11:59.840 --> 1:12:02.200 to and the whole thing, because you know, I mean 1:12:02.240 --> 1:12:03.960 the demos. I did my best. There were twenty four 1:12:04.000 --> 1:12:06.599 track demos, but you know, I've learned so much from 1:12:06.600 --> 1:12:08.439 Omarty and doing the four records I did with him. 1:12:08.439 --> 1:12:12.320 But you know, I produced those demos myself, so there 1:12:12.360 --> 1:12:14.160 was plenty of room for improvement. But no, I don't 1:12:14.160 --> 1:12:16.360 have a lot of demo itis. I think that I've 1:12:16.360 --> 1:12:17.840 heard of that. I know what it could be like. 1:12:17.920 --> 1:12:22.719 But you know, I again, you know I heard Larry 1:12:22.720 --> 1:12:26.799 Carlton told me that he was emptying for Donald canbut 1:12:26.800 --> 1:12:30.760 steal it in But Donald would send him recordings of 1:12:30.840 --> 1:12:33.000 him playing suitcase piano on a little bit he recorded 1:12:33.000 --> 1:12:34.960 with a little black mic on a cassette and send 1:12:35.000 --> 1:12:36.799 them to Larry to do the takedowns for the sessions. 1:12:37.520 --> 1:12:41.080 And I'm like, where are those cassettes? And Larry said, 1:12:41.120 --> 1:12:42.599 I don't know, there's somewhere. I said, We'll go and 1:12:42.640 --> 1:12:45.120 get them. Yeah, I was like, and then I found 1:12:45.160 --> 1:12:47.120 out later from his son Travis that they burned in 1:12:47.160 --> 1:12:49.800 a fire. But can you imagine Donald thing, I'm playing 1:12:49.840 --> 1:12:52.599 Babylon's Sisters by himself at a piano with the little mike, 1:12:52.680 --> 1:12:55.080 you know, try it's priceless, but so no, I always 1:12:55.120 --> 1:12:57.360 wanted things to get slicker and slicker, you know. 1:12:57.600 --> 1:13:03.800 Okay, So, because it's so flawless, is there a mistake 1:13:04.160 --> 1:13:07.880 or something that's wrong on the record that only you 1:13:08.000 --> 1:13:10.160 know about that we don't know about that you hear 1:13:10.200 --> 1:13:13.840 it every time, like is there half a second of 1:13:14.120 --> 1:13:15.840 a wrong chord or something like? 1:13:16.680 --> 1:13:17.679 No, they're pretty perfect. 1:13:17.880 --> 1:13:19.120 I think, okay, no, But. 1:13:19.120 --> 1:13:20.880 You know what, when I did the thing about the 1:13:20.880 --> 1:13:22.680 sailing someone with them, Marty and I brought up to 1:13:22.680 --> 1:13:23.639 Steely Dan reference. 1:13:23.760 --> 1:13:24.400 Uh huh. 1:13:24.439 --> 1:13:26.759 He said, look, there are mistakes on Steely Dan records. 1:13:26.760 --> 1:13:28.599 You just don't hear them, just like all the early 1:13:28.680 --> 1:13:31.120 the Beatles stuff that we've heard, you know, with Paul's 1:13:31.160 --> 1:13:33.519 voice cracking. And I remember, I think I asked on 1:13:33.600 --> 1:13:35.400 it once about it and Donald said, yeah, like Walter 1:13:35.439 --> 1:13:37.439 and I can't even listen to Katie Lyed because it 1:13:37.439 --> 1:13:39.640 was mixed on some weird speakers that we hate and 1:13:40.200 --> 1:13:42.080 kimb really Stanton, I saw you talking abou katy lyes 1:13:42.160 --> 1:13:44.720 like unbelievable, and he said, no, they don't like it. 1:13:44.760 --> 1:13:46.400 They don't like the sound of it. That's what Donald me. 1:13:46.840 --> 1:13:48.960 That's what I remember the Donald or Gary telling me. 1:13:49.000 --> 1:13:52.240 But no, I don't know anything that really really sticks out. 1:13:52.400 --> 1:13:55.439 I mean, I tried, We worked very hard, and I 1:13:55.439 --> 1:13:58.080 don't have any musical regrets, you know, with the stuff 1:13:58.120 --> 1:13:58.519 that I did. 1:13:58.960 --> 1:14:01.759 So I know that the digital thirty two track machine, 1:14:01.800 --> 1:14:03.240 I forget the the. 1:14:03.040 --> 1:14:05.080 Well, there was the Sony one and then you know. 1:14:05.760 --> 1:14:10.080 Right Misbashi, So I know that well, Okay, so I 1:14:10.120 --> 1:14:15.280 know that Stevie Wonder caught a lot of hell for 1:14:15.640 --> 1:14:19.000 kind of the flatness of the Journey through the Secret 1:14:19.080 --> 1:14:22.200 Life of Plants album. I believe he was like one 1:14:22.200 --> 1:14:26.760 of the first guinea Pigs to record on that digital technology. 1:14:28.200 --> 1:14:30.680 Your album was recorded on the same board, was it not? 1:14:32.080 --> 1:14:35.000 Well, the first album's recorded on a Harrison, which is 1:14:35.040 --> 1:14:36.880 not particularly a great board, but it was what they 1:14:36.920 --> 1:14:38.200 had at the time. It was steady the out at 1:14:38.240 --> 1:14:40.559 the time. But I was the first album was right, 1:14:40.640 --> 1:14:44.120 no analog two tracks, okay. The second album we used 1:14:44.160 --> 1:14:47.040 one analog machine and one digital machine the three M 1:14:47.120 --> 1:14:50.000 digital machine. The first album was all analog. 1:14:50.240 --> 1:14:52.960 At the time. Could you tell like a difference or 1:14:53.240 --> 1:14:56.200 I mean, I'm sure we all sold like perfect sound 1:14:56.240 --> 1:14:57.400 and da da da da da. 1:14:57.240 --> 1:15:02.400 But we cut the basic tracks on the twenty four 1:15:02.439 --> 1:15:04.320 track analog machine. Just have liked sound of the drums 1:15:04.320 --> 1:15:06.920 and everything. I mean, I think analog superior is about 1:15:07.000 --> 1:15:09.080 especially for drums and based things. There's a warmth there. 1:15:09.479 --> 1:15:12.280 But then we got used the digital machine. I did 1:15:12.360 --> 1:15:14.599 like the fact that you could, even early on with 1:15:14.840 --> 1:15:17.200 those machines, you could drop in twenty seconds of something, 1:15:17.240 --> 1:15:19.240 you know, so that you know, I used to stand 1:15:19.240 --> 1:15:21.639 that there for hours singing parts. If I was flat, 1:15:21.640 --> 1:15:22.920 I had to sing it again and all that, so 1:15:23.240 --> 1:15:25.080 you know, you got into the comping thing. So that 1:15:25.240 --> 1:15:27.320 was why people liked it a lot. But no, I 1:15:27.360 --> 1:15:30.240 still think analog over I don't know what they said. 1:15:30.240 --> 1:15:32.320 I think analog is superior as far as a great 1:15:32.360 --> 1:15:36.120 analog machine. In fact, Eric Johnson cuts his basic tracks 1:15:36.120 --> 1:15:39.719 on two inch sixteen so it's a two inch machine, 1:15:39.720 --> 1:15:43.480 but it's a sixteen track head, so the gaps are wider. Oh, 1:15:43.520 --> 1:15:46.000 and then he saves that tape and sets it aside, 1:15:46.439 --> 1:15:48.280 and then when they mix he brings it out again. 1:15:49.200 --> 1:15:50.080 I never thought of that. 1:15:50.160 --> 1:15:52.160 Oh yeah, that's that to get the real meat. 1:15:52.400 --> 1:15:56.439 Yeah, yeah, I'm learning a lot of here. Now you're 1:15:56.479 --> 1:15:58.800 telling me that this is a make especially the record. 1:15:58.960 --> 1:15:59.840 Let's start up Lovie. 1:16:00.000 --> 1:16:01.960 Before you were born, you know, this stuff was happening, 1:16:02.040 --> 1:16:06.080 but no, analog is amazing. But certainly the convenience of 1:16:08.080 --> 1:16:09.960 digital with all this stuff. I mean, there was a 1:16:10.000 --> 1:16:14.960 thing Elliott I forget his name now, he built this 1:16:15.120 --> 1:16:17.760 comping machine this before you're born. Probably you put in 1:16:18.000 --> 1:16:20.479 trs from the console. You put in seven tracks of 1:16:20.520 --> 1:16:23.880 vocal come in from the board, tracks of vocal, and 1:16:25.200 --> 1:16:27.679 you could pick A and B track and you could 1:16:27.760 --> 1:16:30.080 slide this fader over. It was a really expensive machine. 1:16:30.120 --> 1:16:32.360 You could slide it over to do a comp so 1:16:32.640 --> 1:16:35.760 fast really that it was a manual comp And I'm 1:16:35.800 --> 1:16:37.799 already and used it a lot. Yeah, it was pretty amazing. 1:16:38.360 --> 1:16:41.160 Seven vocal tracks come in, he says, okay, I want 1:16:41.479 --> 1:16:43.920 these two words from this track onto this track here, 1:16:44.400 --> 1:16:46.160 and then right at that point he slides the fader 1:16:46.240 --> 1:16:48.880 over and it slides track seven to five. That kind 1:16:48.880 --> 1:16:51.120 of thing, and people use that quite a bit before 1:16:51.360 --> 1:16:54.880 all the protool shit. Yeah, now it's just so much 1:16:54.880 --> 1:16:57.600 about convenience and the even I just thought commercial was 1:16:57.680 --> 1:16:59.080 shack where they're doing. 1:17:00.439 --> 1:17:17.400 You know, it's just hitting me right now. Your album 1:17:17.560 --> 1:17:21.519 comes out, I mean really in the dawn of the eighties, 1:17:22.880 --> 1:17:28.439 and I remember, Okay, so I specifically remember where I 1:17:28.560 --> 1:17:31.920 was when I first heard you. My dad was buying 1:17:32.680 --> 1:17:35.320 a brand new stereo system, you know, he was like 1:17:35.600 --> 1:17:40.800 a gearhead and whatnot. So your album was used as 1:17:40.920 --> 1:17:48.479 the demonstration record to show us what speakers. However, another 1:17:48.520 --> 1:17:51.800 piece of technology that gets invented kind of the same 1:17:51.920 --> 1:17:54.880 year that your album coming out is the Walkman, right, 1:17:55.920 --> 1:18:03.880 So for such a perfect sounding that's made for stere Yeah, 1:18:05.160 --> 1:18:08.200 was there concerns that now? Because even now when I create, 1:18:08.880 --> 1:18:12.800 most of us get our like we now judge it 1:18:12.960 --> 1:18:17.080 based on playing it on our laptop or listening on 1:18:17.200 --> 1:18:20.559 the phone or whatever. It's no, it's not. I haven't 1:18:20.600 --> 1:18:23.320 heard music on loudspeakers in a second in the age 1:18:23.360 --> 1:18:26.200 of Walkman. Where was that concerning that? 1:18:27.040 --> 1:18:29.320 Very much? So it was not welcome at all. In fact, 1:18:30.120 --> 1:18:32.639 it just evolved from there in my opinion, And of course, 1:18:32.760 --> 1:18:36.240 like Neil Young came out with this thing called the Ponos. 1:18:36.920 --> 1:18:38.880 I still have my pon Yeah, that Neil brought out 1:18:39.080 --> 1:18:42.439 and trying to somehow rectify the situation. But no, it 1:18:42.600 --> 1:18:44.800 just devolved from the still trying to fix it. Well, 1:18:44.840 --> 1:18:47.160 I mean Neil brought it out trying to fix No. 1:18:47.240 --> 1:18:49.600 He Neil brought the Ponos out, and I remember he 1:18:49.640 --> 1:18:52.479 took it tomorrow Austin and showed him trying to fix 1:18:52.600 --> 1:18:54.880 this problem with the degradation of the quality of the 1:18:54.960 --> 1:18:56.040 MP three and all that stuff. 1:18:56.160 --> 1:18:58.560 Wait, you're saying that he has been working on the 1:18:58.640 --> 1:18:59.920 ponos for the longest time. 1:19:00.240 --> 1:19:01.960 Well, no, this is a long time ago. I'm saying 1:19:02.000 --> 1:19:03.560 when all this stuff came out and there was this 1:19:03.720 --> 1:19:07.480 degradation with them compression and all that stuff and compromises, 1:19:07.560 --> 1:19:11.360 and you know, Neil brought out this Ponos thing, the 1:19:11.439 --> 1:19:12.799 thing like this, and he brought it to my Austin 1:19:12.840 --> 1:19:15.400 showed it to him because it was like really high 1:19:15.400 --> 1:19:17.160 five and it was twenty four bit or whatever. It 1:19:17.280 --> 1:19:18.840 was just a lot better. Now thinks are getting much 1:19:18.920 --> 1:19:20.719 much better. We got ninety six K and all that stuff. 1:19:20.720 --> 1:19:23.640 But no, that was a drag to have to listen to. 1:19:24.520 --> 1:19:29.840 In fact, my second record Another page was this first 1:19:29.920 --> 1:19:35.040 record on Warner Brothers on cassette, and you know, cassette 1:19:35.080 --> 1:19:37.000 sound like shit. I mean the tape is like that 1:19:37.120 --> 1:19:37.560 big you know. 1:19:39.040 --> 1:19:41.640 Wait, I didn't. I didn't realize that. 1:19:41.800 --> 1:19:45.000 Yeah, well, just on Warner Brothers. Another page, the second 1:19:45.040 --> 1:19:47.920 record they added Arthur to it on the cassette only, 1:19:48.760 --> 1:19:50.400 and so you could get to buy the cassette. 1:19:50.400 --> 1:19:51.880 So I was going to ask you how come you 1:19:51.960 --> 1:19:55.320 didn't put Arthur on the second record. 1:19:55.520 --> 1:19:59.760 Because there was a lot of contractual shit with doing 1:19:59.840 --> 1:20:02.200 our Arthur. It wasn't on Warners or whatever the case, 1:20:02.240 --> 1:20:05.080 but Warners ended up they put it on the cassette 1:20:07.320 --> 1:20:09.800 to drive people to buy cassettes so you can bought 1:20:09.880 --> 1:20:11.680 another page vinyl. It wasn't on there, but if you have, 1:20:11.840 --> 1:20:15.920 that's marketing. But to me, when you put on the album, 1:20:16.000 --> 1:20:17.680 you know and listen to it, it's made. But then 1:20:17.680 --> 1:20:18.880 the cassette is disappointing. 1:20:18.920 --> 1:20:22.080 You know, I've read that, And I don't know if 1:20:22.080 --> 1:20:25.559 this came from you opening for Zeppelin. You brought something 1:20:25.600 --> 1:20:27.360 from Jimmy Page. What is it that you? 1:20:27.640 --> 1:20:32.439 Oh, Jimmy. Jimmy was playing these high wad amplifiers from 1:20:32.520 --> 1:20:34.640 England that this got Dave Reid Mason's garage and the 1:20:34.720 --> 1:20:37.000 only people that I'd seen in magazines were he in Townsend. 1:20:37.640 --> 1:20:39.519 So I was on the road. I was on the 1:20:39.560 --> 1:20:41.160 couple shows with him, and I was hanging out and 1:20:41.360 --> 1:20:45.160 you got to realize, first tour in the States, there 1:20:45.240 --> 1:20:47.240 wasn't all this security. They weren't huge like they got. 1:20:47.320 --> 1:20:49.479 So we all shared the same dressing room. It was 1:20:49.560 --> 1:20:52.280 kind of like access and Jimmy was very, very nice, 1:20:52.680 --> 1:20:55.160 and so you know, I asked him about these amplifiers. 1:20:55.200 --> 1:20:56.680 I said, wow, these are so cool. I've seen him 1:20:56.680 --> 1:20:58.479 in magazines, but we don't have them here and he said, well, 1:20:59.120 --> 1:21:00.479 just Pete and I have them. But he said, if 1:21:00.520 --> 1:21:02.680 you want one, give my guy some money. We'll have 1:21:02.760 --> 1:21:04.680 Dave build you one, send you one, and again him 1:21:04.680 --> 1:21:06.679 seven hundred bucks. I was like nineteen, and my friend said, 1:21:06.720 --> 1:21:09.599 you'll never see anything. But two months later by boat 1:21:09.720 --> 1:21:12.880 here comes this cabinet and head and I had a 1:21:12.960 --> 1:21:14.519 high want that Jimmy Page. 1:21:14.479 --> 1:21:17.559 So prime Jimmy Page sold you a camp. 1:21:17.720 --> 1:21:20.000 Well, he had one made for me in England and 1:21:20.080 --> 1:21:23.120 had it and then shipped to me in San Antonio. 1:21:23.800 --> 1:21:26.000 But what's cool about I was the Coolescon Santina because 1:21:26.040 --> 1:21:27.479 on a high watt. But also I got from. 1:21:27.400 --> 1:21:29.640 Jimmy page where is it now? 1:21:29.840 --> 1:21:33.280 I have no idea. Come on, man, sad to say serious, 1:21:33.320 --> 1:21:34.400 I probably sold it for drugs. 1:21:34.439 --> 1:21:37.120 I'm sure you're not sitting in an like that with 1:21:37.320 --> 1:21:38.360 any of your not here. 1:21:38.360 --> 1:21:39.000 I'm always been wrong. 1:21:39.080 --> 1:21:40.160 Where are your Grammys right now? 1:21:41.240 --> 1:21:43.000 Well, they're at my place to stop playing? 1:21:43.040 --> 1:21:45.080 Where in New York and my Okay? 1:21:46.080 --> 1:21:48.080 But you know what's interesting is I saw Jimmy. The 1:21:48.160 --> 1:21:51.320 Beach Boys did two big concerts in Philly and Russian DC, 1:21:52.120 --> 1:21:55.479 and Jimmy was on the show Solo planned some blues 1:21:55.520 --> 1:21:58.439 and stuff on the show. This is like fourth of July. 1:22:00.880 --> 1:22:03.840 Carl's still alive. Okay, But anyway, I went back to 1:22:03.840 --> 1:22:06.400 say a lot to Jimmy because you know, I was then. 1:22:06.439 --> 1:22:08.160 I was Christopher Cross, you know. So I went back 1:22:08.240 --> 1:22:10.960 so alone. He was very very gracious again, but I 1:22:11.000 --> 1:22:13.080 told him the story, and Jimmy said, you know, man, 1:22:13.160 --> 1:22:16.240 I don't remember anything about this, but he said, but 1:22:16.320 --> 1:22:18.000 I got to tell you. I love the story. It 1:22:18.120 --> 1:22:19.680 is such a touching thing. I remember it. I've never 1:22:19.680 --> 1:22:21.720 seen Jimmy since, but I said, he said, I love 1:22:21.800 --> 1:22:24.599 the story. I said, really, and he said yeah, because 1:22:25.120 --> 1:22:26.679 it sounds like I was nice to you. And I said, 1:22:26.720 --> 1:22:28.960 oh man, I was like a puppy dog at your feet. 1:22:29.360 --> 1:22:31.040 Can I have your pick or whatever? He said, it 1:22:31.120 --> 1:22:32.760 sounds like I was nice to you. And I said, 1:22:32.760 --> 1:22:35.280 you were so nice you can't imagine, he said, And 1:22:35.400 --> 1:22:36.360 Jimmy said, you know what. 1:22:36.640 --> 1:22:39.639 Legend terry people love when the boomerang comes back. 1:22:40.120 --> 1:22:42.880 He said, I like this story because he said, I've 1:22:42.920 --> 1:22:47.040 not always been the nicest guy. That was just like 1:22:47.479 --> 1:22:52.200 heavy man, meaning like we got huge, and there were 1:22:52.280 --> 1:22:55.920 moments when I probably wasn't that nice, and so the 1:22:56.000 --> 1:22:58.400 fact that I was nice to this young kid got 1:22:58.479 --> 1:23:01.519 you this amplifier. I mean, remember but and I thought 1:23:01.560 --> 1:23:03.120 that was I don't know Jimmy at all, but I 1:23:03.120 --> 1:23:05.120 thought that was very touching that he said that, because 1:23:05.760 --> 1:23:07.760 you know he was he was so patient and nice. 1:23:07.840 --> 1:23:11.320 Churse they weren't huge then. In fact, after the first night, 1:23:11.520 --> 1:23:13.040 we were in the dressing and beyond the second show 1:23:13.080 --> 1:23:16.040 and Jimmy said, how do you kids? He and Plant said, 1:23:16.040 --> 1:23:17.720 how do you kids follow us around? Or your parents 1:23:17.760 --> 1:23:19.280 are rich or something? And I said, well, no, we're 1:23:19.320 --> 1:23:23.519 opening the show. And he said really, So we weren't 1:23:23.600 --> 1:23:25.639 very good. But the next night we're playing our set. 1:23:25.720 --> 1:23:27.599 Thirty minutes, I look on the side of the stage 1:23:27.600 --> 1:23:30.120 and there's Jimmy and Robert standing there, Robert and his 1:23:30.200 --> 1:23:33.600 classic Swayed vest. And they didn't stay very long, but 1:23:33.640 --> 1:23:36.280 they said, yeah, but it was crazy. It was fantastic 1:23:36.680 --> 1:23:39.160 opportunities to and so that's where the Ginger Breaker story. 1:23:39.400 --> 1:23:44.160 Same thing, this same promoter, Joe Miller, put me on 1:23:44.240 --> 1:23:45.760 a bunch of different I used to work for Joe 1:23:45.800 --> 1:23:48.160 as a production assistant, doing anything I could do just 1:23:48.240 --> 1:23:51.080 to learn about the business. And my job that night 1:23:51.120 --> 1:23:54.519 when Blind Faith came through town was to gingerhead ulcers. 1:23:55.479 --> 1:23:58.200 So my job I got a big silver bucket with ice, 1:23:58.280 --> 1:24:01.519 and my job was to get quarts of milk, which 1:24:01.560 --> 1:24:05.000 I'd have the spout open, and I crouched down behind 1:24:05.080 --> 1:24:08.000 Ginger's kit silver double bass drums. And remember I was 1:24:08.000 --> 1:24:10.800 a drummer, So I crouched behind back there and my 1:24:10.960 --> 1:24:13.680 job was to Ginger would reach down, I'd hand him 1:24:13.680 --> 1:24:15.960 a quarter of milk. He would chug it and then 1:24:16.080 --> 1:24:19.720 just throw the carton, you know. So by the end 1:24:19.760 --> 1:24:24.840 of the night, and it was amazing quest watching him double. 1:24:25.080 --> 1:24:27.240 You know he was technically you know, it was amazing 1:24:27.280 --> 1:24:29.760 and watching him. By the end of the night, I'm 1:24:29.760 --> 1:24:35.080 sitting there and I'm covered with milk and Ginger and 1:24:36.120 --> 1:24:38.800 and Ginger gets up and doesn't say one word to me. 1:24:39.160 --> 1:24:42.200 He doesn't say thanks, thanks a lot, kid, nothing, just 1:24:42.400 --> 1:24:47.679 like couldn't couldn't, couldn't be bothered to say, hey, thanks 1:24:47.720 --> 1:24:48.000 a lot. 1:24:48.080 --> 1:24:54.719 You know, this is the promo, this is the cliff 1:24:58.160 --> 1:24:59.160 where what is now? 1:25:01.439 --> 1:25:04.519 So that that was my only interaction with Ginger Baker, 1:25:04.600 --> 1:25:06.920 But I got to tell you it was staggeringly cool 1:25:06.960 --> 1:25:09.720 just to be that close to him and watching him play. 1:25:09.960 --> 1:25:12.160 When I when I saw that you did it. My 1:25:12.479 --> 1:25:16.160 my my question, d was how did you survive Ginger Baker? Okay, 1:25:16.320 --> 1:25:17.599 that's that's the nicest. 1:25:18.360 --> 1:25:20.360 Now he would just and he'd just throw the cord 1:25:20.400 --> 1:25:23.880 and it hit me. Yeah. And I had the silver 1:25:24.040 --> 1:25:26.000 bucket with all the eyes from the coats and milk, 1:25:27.040 --> 1:25:29.360 and they said, now, kid, be sure that you opened 1:25:29.400 --> 1:25:31.920 the spout so it's ready. And when Ginger grabs it, 1:25:32.520 --> 1:25:33.880 I go and he can just chug it. You know, 1:25:34.760 --> 1:25:37.519 I guess it's south is Ulcer. But so later on, 1:25:37.680 --> 1:25:39.040 as the years went on and I heard all these 1:25:39.080 --> 1:25:42.920 stories about mister Baker that I realized, well, that seems 1:25:42.960 --> 1:25:44.960 to be kind of and of course I did. I 1:25:45.040 --> 1:25:47.280 did get to know Jack Bruce quite well and did 1:25:47.360 --> 1:25:49.960 stuff with Jack. And I was telling Jack then he said, well, man, 1:25:50.040 --> 1:25:51.040 that's you know, that's ginger. 1:25:51.479 --> 1:25:54.320 Did you appreciate how close you were to the fire. 1:25:54.400 --> 1:25:57.240 Or oh yeah, I mean again, man, you know, like 1:25:57.920 --> 1:26:00.479 you know better than anybody, like at a Beyond say show, 1:26:00.479 --> 1:26:03.600 you wouldn't get anywhere near her are out or you know, 1:26:03.840 --> 1:26:05.760 but no, in those days, it was more relaxed, like 1:26:05.880 --> 1:26:07.080 it wasn't big security. 1:26:07.400 --> 1:26:07.439 No. 1:26:07.600 --> 1:26:12.160 I'd come out Peter Grant like no, and well for 1:26:12.280 --> 1:26:14.680 blind Faith, like I would come out during the day 1:26:14.680 --> 1:26:17.040 and sit on a case and Eric would come out 1:26:17.080 --> 1:26:18.960 with his red through thirty five and his martial stacks 1:26:19.040 --> 1:26:20.680 like in the cream days. He was still there and 1:26:20.800 --> 1:26:22.680 he would just play for like thirty minutes in the 1:26:22.720 --> 1:26:25.720 hall by himself, and I was just sitting there watching that. 1:26:25.840 --> 1:26:28.200 And it was life changing. I mean, to be around 1:26:28.280 --> 1:26:30.760 that stuff. Nowadays you wouldn't get near them, but in 1:26:30.840 --> 1:26:33.519 those days it was it was different. Question. It was 1:26:33.640 --> 1:26:35.920 just like all the security stuff that we have now, 1:26:36.080 --> 1:26:37.920 it's just it's all blown up. It's kind of like 1:26:37.960 --> 1:26:40.160 you said earlier about the sound systems. I mean, it 1:26:40.280 --> 1:26:44.000 was just different then. They weren't huge, huge stars like 1:26:44.080 --> 1:26:44.719 they are now. 1:26:44.960 --> 1:26:48.760 You know. Okay, So you know, I would imagine one 1:26:48.800 --> 1:26:53.479 of the burdens of coming out so strong is that, 1:26:53.760 --> 1:26:56.000 you know, there's a portion of the audience that's just 1:26:56.160 --> 1:27:00.880 attached to that particular work or not. And don't say 1:27:00.960 --> 1:27:07.960 all of them, but what projects are near and dear, 1:27:08.120 --> 1:27:11.479 like close to you that you felt were overlooked that 1:27:11.640 --> 1:27:12.800 we should pay attention to. 1:27:14.479 --> 1:27:18.080 Well, I mean, you know, it's like when you have kids, 1:27:18.160 --> 1:27:19.800 you know, the little ones are always the kind of 1:27:19.800 --> 1:27:21.640 the most precious and all that. So as much as 1:27:21.680 --> 1:27:23.600 I'm so proud of the first work I did, I 1:27:23.720 --> 1:27:27.000 made twelve records over the years, and the later ones, 1:27:27.280 --> 1:27:29.600 like Secret Ladder and Doctor Faith, they're kind of in 1:27:29.760 --> 1:27:35.360 this later area. Those two are just I think, really 1:27:35.439 --> 1:27:37.840 really and Doctor Faith in particular is no keyboards on 1:27:37.880 --> 1:27:39.840 the work. It's all guitarist textures and stuff. So I 1:27:39.920 --> 1:27:43.120 think Doctor Faith's Secret Ladder or two I'm extremely proud of. 1:27:43.200 --> 1:27:46.880 I think the songwriting holds up, you know, trying not 1:27:46.960 --> 1:27:49.080 to look the record have any Cereal on it, every record, 1:27:49.320 --> 1:27:52.000 So those two I think are are worth a listen, 1:27:52.080 --> 1:27:54.240 but you know, and they're fans that know them, but 1:27:54.400 --> 1:27:56.800 they didn't sell, I mean collectively the next ten records 1:27:56.840 --> 1:28:00.759 after my first two, you know, sol or anything compared 1:28:00.760 --> 1:28:04.000 to the first two, you know. So, but I've always 1:28:04.080 --> 1:28:05.519 done what I love to do, and I did it 1:28:05.600 --> 1:28:08.040 from my heart, and so I'm not really doing any 1:28:08.120 --> 1:28:10.920 new work at the moment, but super proud of all 1:28:10.960 --> 1:28:12.640 that work. And we do play those songs in the 1:28:12.680 --> 1:28:14.759 show because I insist on at least trying to expose 1:28:14.800 --> 1:28:18.400 the audience to some of these later tunes. And and 1:28:18.560 --> 1:28:20.800 I'll enevitbly gets some social media to say, hey, why 1:28:20.800 --> 1:28:22.760 didn't you play Hunger or one of these obscure tunes. 1:28:22.800 --> 1:28:25.640 I said, well, you know, no one really cares, you know, 1:28:25.800 --> 1:28:27.760 but people do care. But so it's it's a hard 1:28:27.800 --> 1:28:30.320 balance because I think two thirds of the audience comes 1:28:30.400 --> 1:28:32.400 for Arthur Sailing, right, like the win those songs. 1:28:32.400 --> 1:28:37.679 You know, So of those twelve records, what's the most creative, 1:28:37.760 --> 1:28:40.519 rebellious thing that you've done that I'm not aware of? 1:28:41.160 --> 1:28:44.320 Interesting? You know about Secret Ladder, It's it's it's a 1:28:45.040 --> 1:28:48.719 it's a thing where it's got a guitar, acoustic guitar, 1:28:48.920 --> 1:28:51.640 and people are climbing out of the soundhole, up the 1:28:51.720 --> 1:28:54.360 frets to heaven, you know, to the clouds. And Jimmy, 1:28:54.680 --> 1:28:57.240 when I was on the show with you, Jimmy wanted 1:28:57.479 --> 1:28:59.960 an album to show and I said, well, we only 1:29:00.040 --> 1:29:01.640 put it on CD. When have an emma, Jimmy had 1:29:01.680 --> 1:29:04.080 one made up and he showed it, you know, And 1:29:04.240 --> 1:29:06.240 then Jimmy said to me when I was standing out there, 1:29:06.280 --> 1:29:08.439 he said, this is like the coolest idea, Like who 1:29:08.520 --> 1:29:10.840 get you know? This is cool with the guitar because 1:29:10.840 --> 1:29:14.400 he plays guitar. But anyway, I digress. What did you 1:29:14.439 --> 1:29:15.400 ask me? Oh? 1:29:15.560 --> 1:29:20.360 No, I just have you ever done anything? Oh rebellious creatively? Well, 1:29:20.400 --> 1:29:23.639 there's a song on your rap record with the Dust, 1:29:23.680 --> 1:29:25.000 but yeah, I'm playing. 1:29:25.280 --> 1:29:29.519 There's a song on album called Every Turn of the 1:29:29.560 --> 1:29:33.639 World's my third record, and a song called Charm the Snake, 1:29:34.000 --> 1:29:37.000 and it's pretty aggressive, and I think it kind of 1:29:37.040 --> 1:29:40.200 hurt me at radio because radio just couldn't couldn't play it. 1:29:40.240 --> 1:29:42.360 It was just too rock for them, you know. But 1:29:43.200 --> 1:29:46.720 it's and actually I think Hinley at one point told 1:29:46.720 --> 1:29:48.439 me like one of the favorite things I've done because 1:29:48.439 --> 1:29:50.080 it was kind of like Sunset grill or something. You know, 1:29:50.080 --> 1:29:53.439 it's pretty aggressive, but and I used this weird instrument 1:29:53.479 --> 1:29:56.200 called the synthax and stuff. But anyway, that's kind of 1:29:56.280 --> 1:29:58.240 an outside track for me. But by that time I 1:29:58.360 --> 1:30:01.800 was cemented as the ballot a deer and and radio 1:30:02.000 --> 1:30:04.519 just couldn't handle it playing. You know, I wasn't going 1:30:04.600 --> 1:30:06.559 to get played on album radio and it was too 1:30:06.600 --> 1:30:08.599 aggressive for pop radio, and I kind of just fell 1:30:08.640 --> 1:30:10.639 down the middle. But that's probably the tune that's probably 1:30:10.680 --> 1:30:11.240 the most. 1:30:11.600 --> 1:30:16.559 You know, what's the best advice that you were given? 1:30:17.000 --> 1:30:20.720 And subsequently, what's the advice that you are glad that 1:30:20.840 --> 1:30:21.439 you ignored? 1:30:22.800 --> 1:30:26.679 You know, I think I think McDonald at one point said, 1:30:26.720 --> 1:30:29.040 you know, bad or good like the out rock thing. 1:30:29.120 --> 1:30:30.720 Mike said, you know, bad are good. When people are 1:30:30.760 --> 1:30:33.200 talking about you, they're you know, mentioning you, that's a 1:30:33.200 --> 1:30:33.519 good thing. 1:30:33.560 --> 1:30:33.680 You know. 1:30:33.720 --> 1:30:36.599 It's like, I'm glad to be humiliated or whatever it takes. 1:30:36.880 --> 1:30:39.880 It takes, you know, but uh yeah, you know, I 1:30:40.000 --> 1:30:43.559 think it's it's uh far as what to tell people. 1:30:43.640 --> 1:30:45.040 I mean, send your tape to the wrong. 1:30:44.920 --> 1:30:48.760 Guy, you know, Oh, that's one. 1:30:48.920 --> 1:30:51.519 I mean, it's our business. As you know, it's it's 1:30:51.640 --> 1:30:54.759 so tough. There's so few people. I thank the audience 1:30:54.800 --> 1:30:56.479 every not for their support, because I said, there's so 1:30:56.520 --> 1:30:58.360 many musicians that I know and don't know who never 1:30:58.400 --> 1:30:59.920 had this opportunity to sit up here and play the 1:31:00.120 --> 1:31:02.519 music for people, you know. And so I think people 1:31:02.600 --> 1:31:04.840 like Carl Wilson and Brian and people like this that 1:31:04.880 --> 1:31:08.680 I got to meet, who you know, just recognized me 1:31:08.880 --> 1:31:11.400 and you know, as an artist and all that kind 1:31:11.400 --> 1:31:15.000 of thing, even like Paul, you know, like McCarty apparently 1:31:15.040 --> 1:31:17.200 you know, there's a book where John Lennon, I guess, 1:31:17.240 --> 1:31:18.960 talks about sailing and he was a big fan and 1:31:18.960 --> 1:31:20.280 all this stuff, and I never got to be John. 1:31:20.960 --> 1:31:22.599 But I asked Paul about and Paul said, well, I don't, 1:31:22.680 --> 1:31:26.519 I don't know per se you know that about that 1:31:26.680 --> 1:31:28.759 particular thing. But I know that we all had your record, 1:31:29.400 --> 1:31:31.840 and I'm like, now, wait a minute, you all had 1:31:31.880 --> 1:31:33.959 my record. He goes, well, everybody had your record. 1:31:34.600 --> 1:31:36.759 And you do know that everyone had your record. 1:31:36.600 --> 1:31:38.679 And I'm like, well, wait a minute, you're the Beatles. 1:31:39.200 --> 1:31:42.360 You have so you know those kinds of moments where 1:31:42.760 --> 1:31:46.360 John Lennon. You know, those are the things that validate 1:31:46.479 --> 1:31:50.160 you to where like I told Johnny Mitchell once, I said, 1:31:50.240 --> 1:31:52.320 I I told her I want to write down everything 1:31:52.360 --> 1:31:54.040 you say. But I said, you know, I hope I 1:31:54.080 --> 1:31:58.000 wish my music could mean as much to someone as 1:31:58.040 --> 1:32:00.840 yours as to me. And she said, well, you know, 1:32:01.040 --> 1:32:03.720 I look at music and it's like some people don't 1:32:03.800 --> 1:32:05.280 like my voice or don't like my music, you know. 1:32:05.640 --> 1:32:08.320 And she said so, I'm not sure right, Well, she 1:32:08.479 --> 1:32:10.120 was just being gracious, but she said, so, you know, 1:32:10.720 --> 1:32:12.840 you do what you do, and you know, some people 1:32:12.880 --> 1:32:14.080 embrace some people don't. 1:32:13.920 --> 1:32:14.040 You know. 1:32:14.120 --> 1:32:16.479 And I think and these friendships that I've had over 1:32:16.560 --> 1:32:19.360 the years, like Randy Newman, people like this that I 1:32:19.439 --> 1:32:22.360 rever so much that you know, I just feel somewhat validated, 1:32:22.640 --> 1:32:25.240 like I said, people like Brian Wilson. And in my house, 1:32:25.920 --> 1:32:29.880 I have framed one Christmas Eve. I got the tube 1:32:29.920 --> 1:32:31.880 in the mail and it was an orchestral piece of 1:32:31.920 --> 1:32:34.880 paper with God only knows written outside by Brian. Oh wow, 1:32:35.240 --> 1:32:36.880 and I have it and Brian. I asked Brian why 1:32:36.960 --> 1:32:38.640 he sent it to me. He said, well, because I 1:32:38.720 --> 1:32:40.280 know how much you love Carl and he's saying that 1:32:40.320 --> 1:32:44.240 I thought you'd like to have it, and you still 1:32:44.240 --> 1:32:46.400 have it, right, I do. And Carl said to me once, 1:32:46.880 --> 1:32:49.320 Carl said, when we were doing all these vocal sessions, 1:32:49.400 --> 1:32:53.640 he said, we make a nice sound. I love that man. 1:32:54.479 --> 1:32:56.800 So all these little validations I think, you know, in 1:32:56.920 --> 1:33:01.240 spite of the meteoric early success and that stuff means 1:33:01.280 --> 1:33:01.720 the world to me. 1:33:01.800 --> 1:33:05.120 You know, what's your favorite mental album? 1:33:06.040 --> 1:33:12.680 Well, Hezia really well, I mean listen Blue Blue for 1:33:12.800 --> 1:33:15.479 the Roses. I mean I can, that's what I like. 1:33:15.479 --> 1:33:17.560 Steely Dan like, don't make me pick, but if I 1:33:17.640 --> 1:33:20.920 mean Hezia's when she got with Jako because of Zacho, well, no, 1:33:21.080 --> 1:33:24.559 it just opened up her head. And I think even 1:33:24.600 --> 1:33:28.280 more than Summer Lawns well, Edith and the Kingpin. Don't 1:33:28.320 --> 1:33:30.800 make me choose, but yeah, I think yea certainly Edith. 1:33:30.880 --> 1:33:35.400 But Haia like I heard that. Joan said to some 1:33:35.520 --> 1:33:38.439 bass player, Uh, can you play something besides the root 1:33:39.080 --> 1:33:40.640 And he said, lady, I'm a bass player. I got 1:33:40.680 --> 1:33:43.040 four st rings. That's what I do. And she said, 1:33:43.240 --> 1:33:44.960 he said, but there's this guy in Florida. I'll give 1:33:44.960 --> 1:33:47.240 you his number. He does that kind of shit and 1:33:47.320 --> 1:33:50.040 it was Jacko, and she called him and he flew 1:33:50.080 --> 1:33:52.040 out to La and Jones said, immediately we had a 1:33:52.120 --> 1:33:57.599 conversation musically, but I feel like Hazia, but Hissing's amazing, 1:33:57.680 --> 1:33:59.160 like I said Edith in the Kingpin and you know, 1:33:59.840 --> 1:34:04.400 uh uh, I mean Scarlett. Yeah, it's incredible. I mean 1:34:05.760 --> 1:34:07.640 there's not a bad piece of music in any of 1:34:07.680 --> 1:34:09.640 that stuff. I mean, Blue is incredible, Ladies of the 1:34:09.680 --> 1:34:12.560 Candle that but for the Roses is one that Ludwig's on, 1:34:12.640 --> 1:34:13.880 all that stuff. I love that stuff. 1:34:13.920 --> 1:34:17.360 I mean, I've I've Butzer for You is the yeah, 1:34:17.520 --> 1:34:19.599 and I love it. I'm not complaining. I'm not complaining, 1:34:19.760 --> 1:34:22.840 but it's just everyone always goes to that. But I 1:34:22.840 --> 1:34:27.519 always feel like that's like saying Thriller is your favorite album, 1:34:27.600 --> 1:34:29.679 or Songs in the Key of Life like or Sergeant 1:34:29.680 --> 1:34:34.760 Pepper's like and no One I think. I still say 1:34:34.800 --> 1:34:36.200 the Hissing of the Summer Lines is. 1:34:36.280 --> 1:34:38.560 Well, it's right. I agree with you. I mean, like 1:34:39.120 --> 1:34:41.960 Coyote and those tunes stuff. But you know, with Stevie, 1:34:42.000 --> 1:34:46.400 it's interesting because not probably songs a yes, but like 1:34:46.520 --> 1:34:49.280 Superwoman was on Music of my Mind. Yeah, I mean 1:34:49.320 --> 1:34:49.720 that to me. 1:34:50.000 --> 1:34:52.000 Oh, no, there's nothing like Music of My Mind. 1:34:52.120 --> 1:34:53.920 Sounds a quil but Music of my Mind, I mean 1:34:53.960 --> 1:34:56.120 that record is one that really really got me. 1:34:56.439 --> 1:34:59.960 You know, I'm with you there before I close my fire, 1:35:00.000 --> 1:35:04.080 I don't question is oh because of the iconic flamingo 1:35:04.439 --> 1:35:09.960 artwork on your album covers, where is the original drawing 1:35:10.400 --> 1:35:13.719 that adorned the debut album? 1:35:14.479 --> 1:35:18.200 I think I would hope that Warner's probably has it, 1:35:18.240 --> 1:35:21.280 because what happened was when Jimmy newhouse, this drummer came 1:35:21.360 --> 1:35:24.000 in with it was an album shaped size thing, but 1:35:24.080 --> 1:35:26.320 it was the water color was covering the page. It 1:35:26.360 --> 1:35:28.800 wasn't in the green right, and he said, I think 1:35:28.840 --> 1:35:30.760 this is what your music looks like. Hung it on 1:35:30.800 --> 1:35:32.720 the wall, kind of like a focal point. And then 1:35:32.760 --> 1:35:34.439 when I went to Warner's we got the album deal. 1:35:34.479 --> 1:35:36.120 You know, they put up fifty records a month. I said, 1:35:36.120 --> 1:35:38.200 what do you think about this? And they said, you know, 1:35:39.080 --> 1:35:41.000 it's cool. I said, okay. So then they had this 1:35:41.080 --> 1:35:43.160 guy Flora Holmes in Atlanta kind of put the green 1:35:43.200 --> 1:35:46.040 around it and all that. But somewhere peach Onsen are 1:35:46.080 --> 1:35:47.680 one of the art people at Warner's, is probably in 1:35:47.680 --> 1:35:49.640 the Warner's archive. Somewhere where they kept it because I 1:35:49.680 --> 1:35:53.000 gave it to him to draw the original thing with it. 1:35:53.080 --> 1:35:56.000 But originally it was almost like a Joni Mitchell watercolor. 1:35:56.160 --> 1:35:58.560 But the whole album was just that lagoon scene, and 1:35:58.560 --> 1:36:00.759 then you put it in the circle and the flamingo 1:36:00.840 --> 1:36:04.320 has no particular Everybody asked me, like, what's the significance. 1:36:04.400 --> 1:36:06.720 It's just kind of like Linda Ronstet's heart. You know, 1:36:06.960 --> 1:36:09.400 it just became a thing that people identified me with. 1:36:09.560 --> 1:36:11.960 So now, at one point when the record stopped selling 1:36:12.080 --> 1:36:13.960 very well, one of the guys said, I think we 1:36:14.000 --> 1:36:15.400 should take the flaming go out back and beat the 1:36:15.400 --> 1:36:15.880 shit out of it. 1:36:20.840 --> 1:36:24.880 Oh man, well, Christopher Cross, I thank you so much. 1:36:24.960 --> 1:36:29.800 This is like, even as you were talking, I think 1:36:29.840 --> 1:36:31.200 it was the first time I had an out of 1:36:31.280 --> 1:36:34.880 body experience where I actually said to myself like, wow, 1:36:34.880 --> 1:36:38.320 I feel like I'm listening to the world's coolest music podcast. 1:36:38.600 --> 1:36:41.600 Then I was like, idiot, this is your podcast. 1:36:41.240 --> 1:36:45.400 Right, No, no, you tukon. I'm honored to be here. 1:36:45.439 --> 1:36:48.200 I'm a massive fan, and yeah, I filled to call 1:36:48.240 --> 1:36:50.320 your friend, and I'm just glad to speak the time 1:36:50.360 --> 1:36:50.479 with you. 1:36:50.720 --> 1:36:52.760 Thank you for embracing me and I thank you so 1:36:52.880 --> 1:36:56.599 much and yo the great Christopher Cross on the Quest 1:36:56.680 --> 1:36:59.320 Left Show and we will see you on the next round, 1:36:59.360 --> 1:37:08.920 people Right. Quest Love Show is hosted by Me Amir 1:37:09.040 --> 1:37:13.400 Quest Love Thompson. The executive producers are Sean g Brian 1:37:13.520 --> 1:37:19.479 Calhoun and Me. Produced by Brittany Benjamin and Jake Paine. 1:37:20.560 --> 1:37:25.879 Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown, Edited by Alex Convoy. 1:37:26.560 --> 1:37:32.000 iHeart Video support by Mark Canton, Logo's graphics and animation 1:37:32.160 --> 1:37:38.880 by Nicker Blog. Additional support by Lance Coleman. Special thanks 1:37:38.920 --> 1:37:45.280 to Kathy Brown. Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel. Please subscribe, 1:37:45.320 --> 1:37:48.200 break review and a share a Quest Love Show wherever 1:37:48.560 --> 1:37:51.040 you stream your podcast, and make sure you follow us 1:37:51.040 --> 1:37:57.400 on socials That's at q LS. Check out hundreds and 1:37:57.520 --> 1:38:01.160 hundreds of QLs episodes, including the Slim Supreme Shows and 1:38:01.280 --> 1:38:07.600 our podcast archives. Westlim Show is a production of iHeartRadio.