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Speaker 1: The Quest Loft Show is a production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Quest Love Show. I

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Speaker 1: am Questlove and man, the hits keep happening. Our legendary

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Speaker 1: guest today has made history, starting back in nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: one sweeping the Grammys, first time sweeping the Big Four

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Speaker 1: that means album, song record and oh best New Artist.

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Speaker 1: Of course, he has worked with everyone. We will get

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Speaker 1: into it. Of course. We know this man needs no introduction.

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Speaker 1: Name it from Michael McDonald to Brian Wilson, to Bert

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Speaker 1: Backrack to Peter Allen, Carol, I cannot wait to ask

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Speaker 1: you what that room was like. And my research I

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Speaker 1: also discovered that you might have a Ginger Baker story

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Speaker 1: to tell I do. I hope you survived it. Our

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Speaker 1: guest today and myself appeared in the very enjoyable yacht

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Speaker 1: Rock Doc, a doc so good that my own producers

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Speaker 1: a little bit angry at me, like what the hell?

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Speaker 1: But I enjoyed doing that so much. We have met

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Speaker 1: a few times, and one of those times was a

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Speaker 1: bucket list moment for me. Recreating the legendary SCTV bit

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Speaker 1: of Rick moranis doing Michael McDonald as a background singer

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Speaker 1: on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. We were supposed

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Speaker 1: to do this in New York City, but somehow the

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Speaker 1: star saw that we get to do this in La

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Speaker 1: So of course took that opportunity to welcome the great

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Speaker 1: Christopher Cross to the Quest Left Show. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: doing this for.

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Speaker 2: Me, best pleasure, Thank you honor to be here.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, just to look at the the

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Speaker 1: writing credits for the author theme, right, this is Bert Backrack,

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Speaker 1: Carol berrys Aira, Peter Allen and yourself. I always wanted

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Speaker 1: to know which one of you actually came up with

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Speaker 1: the phrase between the Moon and New York City.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's pretty fun because Bette Middler made a joke

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Speaker 2: at the kade Mere Words about four on a song.

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Speaker 2: What is this you know? Because there are four writers right. Well,

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Speaker 2: what happened was I was asked by Iran Pictures to

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Speaker 2: score the movie and I was like, well, okay, I've

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Speaker 2: never scored a movie, but you know that was during

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Speaker 2: my fifteen minutes and everything. Everybody's coming to me with stuff.

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Speaker 2: But then Stephen Gordon, who wrote Arthur, was also first

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Speaker 2: time director, so he didn't want everything to be new

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Speaker 2: so he said, I think we need to find somebody

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Speaker 2: to score it who's got some experience. So they gave

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Speaker 2: it to Backreck and Bert was married to Krabar Sega

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Speaker 2: at the time, right, And so they called me up

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Speaker 2: about you know, Burt's going to score, but we need

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Speaker 2: a theme which you want to write it with us,

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Speaker 2: And of course I was under no illusion that, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was the new kid in town, so as Don

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Speaker 2: Henley like to say, and so you know, they invited

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Speaker 2: me over the house. I went there about midnight, their

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Speaker 2: house in Beverly Hills, and it was pretty heavy.

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Speaker 1: I walked in. They asked you to come at midnight.

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Speaker 2: Well, just whatever it worked out. I got there about

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Speaker 2: midnight at Bird's house and I walked in there. Course

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Speaker 2: there's two oscars on the mantel already, so it was

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Speaker 2: intimidating for sure, but Sonny would and answer your question.

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Speaker 2: We started working on the music, and then once we

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Speaker 2: get the music kind of settled with Bert and I,

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Speaker 2: then Carol and I started working on a lyric, and

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Speaker 2: Carol actually stumbled on the realization that she and Peter

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Speaker 2: Allen had a song they'd never finished, and it had

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Speaker 2: the line when you get caught to in New York City,

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Speaker 2: And that line actually came Peter was circling Kennedy and

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Speaker 2: he was going to be his partner and he was

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Speaker 2: stuck in a hold and the line popped into his head.

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Speaker 2: So Carol told me when you get caught to the movie,

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Speaker 2: because the moon was out his window on the plane

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Speaker 2: and he's wanting to land to be with his partner.

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Speaker 2: So Peter said, you know, I came up with the line.

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Speaker 2: So Carol calls him on Australia said, hey, look, I'm

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Speaker 2: working on the song with Christopher Cross and Bert and

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Speaker 2: you know there's that song we never finished and has

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Speaker 2: that line when you get Caught in New York City

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Speaker 2: and it'd be perfect for what we're doing. Are you

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Speaker 2: cool with us plugging this in? And Peter was very

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Speaker 2: gracious about it, and so that's how it happened. He

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Speaker 2: kind of he remotely phoned in the chorus of.

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Speaker 1: The song and wanted to Oscar for it.

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Speaker 2: He did, Yeah, I okay, but that's okay.

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Speaker 1: Actually is a way better than in my mind. I

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Speaker 1: had this whole thing of like I'm trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out like how to for superpowers like arm wrestle some

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Speaker 1: real estate into the song, like did you come with

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Speaker 1: an acoustic guitar?

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Speaker 2: Was Bert Bird's on piano? I just came and but

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Speaker 2: I but I, but I had my ideas and from

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Speaker 2: when I was originally supposed to do something, and so

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Speaker 2: Burton and I kind of, you know, got the music together,

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Speaker 2: and after that was done, then Burt just sort of

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Speaker 2: played to accompany us, you know, writing the lyric. Carroll

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Speaker 2: had a yellowpad. But you know, there's a thing quest

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Speaker 2: about countain lines. I learned from Will Jennings, the great

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Speaker 2: songwriter one time when I worked with Will, and I

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Speaker 2: was trying to figure out, well, how much credit should

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Speaker 2: I get or you get? And he said, man, I'm

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Speaker 2: not into Countain lions. And it was a real piece

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Speaker 2: of wisdom for me. I was just an experience because

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Speaker 2: you don't count lines, man, you just.

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Speaker 1: Whatever does that? I just split it happy, whatever.

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Speaker 2: Your participation is. So yeah, I mean Peter wasn't actually

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Speaker 2: in the room, but when Carol told me the line,

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Speaker 2: we were looking at Rushes from the film and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: you're crazy, that's insane, that's like perfect. So yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: how it happened. As far as I remember.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's great. What is your first musical memory in life?

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Speaker 2: Well, probably you know, Buddy Holly, Peggy Sue or something,

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Speaker 2: or Everly Brothers, possibly Ray Charles, I Can't Stop Loving You.

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Speaker 2: I mean, these are all singles that I bought for

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Speaker 2: ninety nine cents back in the day.

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Speaker 1: You know, what was the first record that you brought

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Speaker 1: with your own money?

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Speaker 2: How to be one of those? Probably Everly Brothers, Wake

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Speaker 2: Up Lit SUSI, or maybe Buddy Holly Sue Again. I

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Speaker 2: bought remember I Can't Stop You, but also bought a

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Speaker 2: lot of weird things like Yaka yak and you know

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Speaker 2: the coasters. Yeah, those things. So we used to buy

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Speaker 2: singles and my sister had one of those little carrying

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Speaker 2: cases of forty five. You know. Also, Ricky Nelson was

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Speaker 2: a big We watched that was You Heard show, so

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Speaker 2: you know, things were very eclectic then, you know, the

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Speaker 2: charts were all over the place. You had like Hella Mother,

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Speaker 2: Hell of Fadda, and then you had yeah, so it

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Speaker 2: was a lot different than it is now.

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Speaker 1: Wait, that was a Hello Mother, Hello Fada.

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Speaker 2: That was a big hit.

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Speaker 1: That was an actual song. See, okay, I feel so

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Speaker 1: dumb now.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, You're the You're the ultimate music.

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Speaker 1: No, that was a single, Okay, So you know, like

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Speaker 1: when something becomes classic, then it becomes a commercial, right,

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Speaker 1: Like I didn't know that Barefoot and it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Just a speaking no no.

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Speaker 1: No. I knew it was the Speaking Span commercial because

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Speaker 1: it got picked up in commercials. But I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I got nieces and nephews that think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the rap song from Black Sheep is the choice of

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Speaker 1: yours driving Hamsters was just for that commercial. I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: that was like one of the biggest rap songs of

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Speaker 1: all time, but I didn't know that that was an

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Speaker 1: actual song. I just know it as the downy commercial. No.

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Speaker 2: And like things like uh sorry, there's a single that

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Speaker 2: was out called Stranger on the Shore by this guy Akerbilk,

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Speaker 2: who was this Swedish clarinetist or something, and you know,

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Speaker 2: Cherriot's a fire theme. All these kinds of things. Radio

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Speaker 2: was so eclectic. It was in fact, I was doing

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Speaker 2: to Jimmy Webb about MacArthur Park because it was seven

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Speaker 2: and half minutes long and you would never get away

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Speaker 2: with that now, and so it was. I had all

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Speaker 2: kinds of singles, but I think the early exposure was

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Speaker 2: probably like I said, I'd have to if I will

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Speaker 2: go back Everly Brothers, Buddy, Holly Ray, Charles, Richie Allen's

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Speaker 2: Big One.

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Speaker 1: You know you mentioned MacArthur Park. You know. I grew

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Speaker 1: up in a Chibis family, and there's a turnaround in

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Speaker 1: that song. I'm two years old and and my dad

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Speaker 1: was such a tyrant, and this is way before I'm

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Speaker 1: drumming for him. I didn't start drumming for him until

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Speaker 1: I was eleven, but I remember it was like the

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Speaker 1: musical version of if you ever see in a Bronx

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Speaker 1: Tail when the Hell's Angels come in and they mess

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Speaker 1: up the bar, and that moment where he's like, and

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Speaker 1: now you can't leave. My dad was like, I will

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Speaker 1: make you motherfuckers do that turnaround until I'm satisfied, and

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Speaker 1: I don't care if it takes all night. And literally,

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Speaker 1: I remember, this is the only time I felt like

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Speaker 1: it was a musical punishment for his band. They had

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Speaker 1: to play that turnaround like ad nausea and I'm in bed.

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Speaker 1: It's like nine pm and they're rehearsing in the living

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Speaker 1: room downstairs, and that loop just yea.

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Speaker 2: Because so many people said to me, what the hell

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Speaker 2: is a song about someone left a cake out on

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Speaker 2: the rain. It's a monster romance. I mean, the cake

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Speaker 2: is a woman. You know, it's like hello until now.

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Speaker 1: Like I again, because I was three years old, I

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Speaker 1: literally took everything that he said in that song, like literally.

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Speaker 1: So anytime I see a coconut cake like Magnolia, like

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Speaker 1: Downstream from Fallon, I still get thoughts of a white

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Speaker 1: coconut cake inside raised storm. Why are we talking about

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Speaker 1: this song?

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Speaker 2: Because I just brought up you know how radio was

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Speaker 2: so eclectic then, Like I said, anything went. There was

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Speaker 2: all this stuff, like I said, from Ray Stevens, you know,

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Speaker 2: things like Ali you all these things. So my exposure

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Speaker 2: was pretty broad. What city Sanatoria, Texas?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Do you remember the first concert you ever went?

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Speaker 2: To tell the truth? I think it was Herman's Hermits.

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Speaker 1: What yours is? When was this? Well?

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Speaker 2: How to be? Sixties? You know, I was born in

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Speaker 2: fifty one, so sixties. I saw Hermas Hermits. I saw

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Speaker 2: the Who procol Harum quite a few bands early on.

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Speaker 2: I can't keep track of the order, but certainly Hermas

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Speaker 2: Hermits was one of the early ones who I saw

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Speaker 2: quite a few times.

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Speaker 1: I saw, you know, the Moon's drum set stay intact.

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Speaker 2: Or yeah, they didn't blow it up that day, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then people like h of course I got to

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Speaker 2: see lots of great stuff. You know, Hendrix many times,

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Speaker 2: you know, so really yeah three times, Jimmie three.

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Speaker 1: Times pre eighty four. Live records didn't feel the same

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Speaker 1: that it always felt like. And then I discovered once

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Speaker 1: I started investigating, that some live records weren't live records

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Speaker 1: at all, like, oh, that's why it sounds so pristine.

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Speaker 1: They were, you know, right every yeah, or some sound

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Speaker 1: check recordings with overdubs or whatever. But I always wanted

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Speaker 1: to know when you saw a live okay Hendricks, for example,

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Speaker 1: were you able to feel the music like that or

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Speaker 1: did it down like tinny and far away, like almost

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Speaker 1: the equivalent of like your monitors being on and only

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Speaker 1: your monitors being on.

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Speaker 2: Well that with Jimmy because he came Santonio when he

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Speaker 2: played in an old theater that had a big velvet curtain,

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Speaker 2: you know, it was closed, and Jimmy was using I'm

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Speaker 2: a guitar player, so Jimmy was using these big sun

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Speaker 2: amplifiers at the time, like bigger than anybody used there.

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Speaker 2: He had three of them like this, you know.

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Speaker 1: He's the sound would come from.

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Speaker 2: He was the first. Yeah, he was the first guy

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Speaker 2: to kind of really crack it up. And I remember

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Speaker 2: I was in the seventh row and I heard, you know,

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Speaker 2: some rumblings behind the stage and I heard this bitch

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Speaker 2: and it was Jimmy plugging in his guitar, you know,

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Speaker 2: all right, and he hit like a fifth on the

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Speaker 2: guitar and the curtain just and we were like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, what like velser raptors back there or something.

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Speaker 2: And then he started Foxy Lady and they opened the

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Speaker 2: curtain and he was in total green with the hat

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Speaker 2: with the feather and it was so amazing. The sound

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Speaker 2: was so incredible that he was like from outer space. Man,

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Speaker 2: it was like something you'd never ever seen. But so yeah,

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Speaker 2: So in the case of Hendricks, he had a big

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Speaker 2: sent He couldn't hear Mitch Mitchell for shit.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, was the sound just coming

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Speaker 1: from the stage.

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Speaker 2: Or mostly from the States? Well, look at the Beatles

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Speaker 2: at Shay Stadium. You know, they just had like sure

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Speaker 2: columns or vox columns. I mean it was ridiculous compared

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Speaker 2: to so yeah, but still you know, seeing these artists.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm still thrilled to have gotten to see him,

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Speaker 2: you know, Kareem live and stuff like that at the

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Speaker 2: film where No, it was it was incredible.

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Speaker 1: Where's the moment where you saw a concert where you

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Speaker 1: noticed the difference where it's like whoa, like real speakers

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Speaker 1: that hit you in the stomach wow? Or was it

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Speaker 1: just such a slow gradual.

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Speaker 2: Actually I had a little local band called Flash and

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Speaker 2: we actually got to open for several shows for Zeppelin

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Speaker 2: on their very first tour in San Antonio, Texas had

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Speaker 2: a rule that you had to have a local band

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Speaker 2: on the show for thirty minutes of every show, So

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Speaker 2: we got to open for Zeppelin on their first tour

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Speaker 2: in the States. I was about nineteen, so sixty sixty

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Speaker 2: nine seventy. It was out, yeah, and they were in

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Speaker 2: a big venue and they had actually had a DCPA

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Speaker 2: system and all that stuff. So that's probably the first

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Speaker 2: time I saw real production, you know, probably then.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, so you mentioned that you were in a

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Speaker 1: heart rock group, which I'm in the irony of it

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Speaker 1: all is what represents you now. But you know, did

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Speaker 1: playing heavy aggressive rock sort of shape your approach to

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Speaker 1: writing pop melodies now, like.

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Speaker 2: Well, actually, you know, opened for Zeppelins just because my

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Speaker 2: manager at the time had a production company they brought

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Speaker 2: Zeppelin in, so we just got to be on the show.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't say we were so Actually one of my

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Speaker 2: biggest influences at the time was Zappa, so the music

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Speaker 2: was kind of like, you know, a bit progressive. I

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Speaker 2: remember I met Frank and he sort of questioned me

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Speaker 2: about me, claiming he was a big influence, and he

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Speaker 2: kind of put me on the griddle, said, well, like

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Speaker 2: I don't hear the He said, I like you music,

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Speaker 2: but I don't hear the kinship. Can you give me somebods?

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Speaker 2: And I came up worlding in for the money, bow

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Speaker 2: tie Daddy, all this stuff, and.

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Speaker 1: Then he's written a ray of song like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: everything was in the eleven nine meter like.

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Speaker 2: But it was pretty funny with him. So what's interesting

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Speaker 2: about Frank is years later he asked me to come

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Speaker 2: sit in with him at a show out here and

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Speaker 2: I couldn't. And a two weeks later in the mail,

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Speaker 2: I get a cassette and it says Zappa wind that

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Speaker 2: he played right like the wind in his show. Really, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a trip.

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Speaker 1: How is his rendition of it?

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Speaker 2: It's fast. He plays Wahwath guitar through the whole thing,

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Speaker 2: and he said, Chris crosspos coming to I couldn't make it.

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Speaker 2: So Brian the drum roady will be singing right like

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Speaker 2: the wind and uh, it was all pretty funny. But no,

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Speaker 2: so my music wasn't so much rock, although one of

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Speaker 2: my big things on the internet to miss I actually

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Speaker 2: subbed for Richie Blackmore in Deep Purple one time because

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Speaker 2: Richie got sick and I subbed him. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: I have long hair. I had hair, and I was

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Speaker 2: influenced by Jeff Beck and rocketar players and stuff certainly,

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Speaker 2: but but no, so my music was kind of interesting

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Speaker 2: at that time. I said, I was kind of influenced

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Speaker 2: a lot by Zappa and people like that. But then

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Speaker 2: once I started getting into Brian Wilson and Carl Wilson,

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Speaker 2: and then that's when things really turned.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, what did pet Sounds mean

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Speaker 1: to you when it came out? Like I know a

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Speaker 1: lot of us have these kind of retroactive responses to it, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it was a classic I always grew up with, But

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Speaker 1: I know that that was a hard sell for people.

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Speaker 1: Only certain few got it and people caught on later.

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Speaker 1: But how much does God only knows mean to you

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Speaker 1: as a well?

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Speaker 2: I don't argue with mcartney. It's probably greatest, I mean,

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Speaker 2: somewhere of the Rainbows right up there, But I think

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Speaker 2: God only knows certainly great songs ever written. And Carl's

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Speaker 2: my biggest vocal mentor so of course it was very

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Speaker 2: important to me that, you know, because I was so

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Speaker 2: close to Carl and I kind of emulated Carl growing up.

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Speaker 2: But you got to realize, again, you're so much younger

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Speaker 2: than me. Pet Sounds, but see, I got exposed to

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Speaker 2: them early on. Like I remember Brian asking me, what's

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Speaker 2: your favorite song of mine? And I told him it's

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Speaker 2: the Lonely Sea, which is a very obscure tune off

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Speaker 2: an early record, and Brian kind of dug it. He's like,

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Speaker 2: the Lonely Sea, Yeah, cool, you know, and I said, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I used to sit in the dark room and just

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Speaker 2: listen that over him again. But no, Pet Sounds was revelatory.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously the Beatles, you know, that's where Sergeant

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Speaker 2: Pepper came in front of thing. So I mean it was incredible.

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Speaker 2: In fact, even and then Surfs Up too, you know

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Speaker 2: Surfs Up that records incredib Remember Mike McDonald picked me

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Speaker 2: up for dinner one night and he had Surfs Up

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Speaker 2: playing in his car, and you know, Mike definitely comes

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Speaker 2: from an R and B place and I was like, wow, cool,

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Speaker 2: and he said, yeah, somebody gave me this. He said

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Speaker 2: it's pretty amazing, and I'm like, well, yeah, it.

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Speaker 1: Is vouch like my dad loved. I mean, even though

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Speaker 1: he was sort of cut from the cloth of do

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Speaker 1: op and whatnot, but vocalists were his things. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: he was listening to streisand Johnny Mathis. He pattered himself

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Speaker 1: after nacking Cole, but he had pet sounds in there.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I remember I didn't catch one until

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Speaker 1: it probably until I moved to London in ninety four.

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Speaker 1: But I remember the second song, No No, the one

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Speaker 1: that has a bike horn in it. Yeah, and when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid, I was really amazed that they

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Speaker 1: had the like bike sounds and bike bells in it.

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Speaker 1: But you know it to me, the beauty that that

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Speaker 1: album represents, I hear that a lot in your vocal

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Speaker 1: Oh definitely, I feel like you're half that. And also

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Speaker 1: how many times have you heard Bill Withers, Like, you

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Speaker 1: have a tone in your voice that's very similar to

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Speaker 1: Bill Withers. That appealed to me because he was like,

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Speaker 1: my god before the Jackson's came along, like Bill Withers.

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Speaker 2: Was Yeah, well no, I actually got to know a

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Speaker 2: Bill a little bit. He and Marcia and their daughter

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Speaker 2: forgets her name, beautiful girl. But no major fan of Bills,

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Speaker 2: you know it. That was amazing, you know he was

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Speaker 2: like he was in the army and that he got

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Speaker 2: out and he started doing music and he just had

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Speaker 2: an incredible career in the time he did. But Withers

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Speaker 2: is amazing. So there are a lot of influence. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Karen Carboner was a big influence on me, I would

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Speaker 2: say vocally, but Carl was probably more than anybody else.

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Speaker 2: The guy and Carl and I did a lot of

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Speaker 2: background work together.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, what was it like having

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Speaker 1: him because the list of people that are singing background

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Speaker 1: with you, like from the Eagles to the Wilsons, what

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Speaker 1: is that like having him in there?

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Speaker 2: Well, having Carl come in to sing on my second

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Speaker 2: record was kind of out of body for me. I

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Speaker 2: mean standing next to him at the studio singing was

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Speaker 2: just you know, beyond a dream come true. And then

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Speaker 2: later on Carl and I did when Brian wasn't doing

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Speaker 2: that well, he and I would do a lot of

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Speaker 2: vocal sessions as an exempt. We did California Girls for

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Speaker 2: davidly Roth. Wait, yeah, that's Carl and did all the

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Speaker 2: background vocals. Yeah, because Brian Brian wasn't. Ted Templeman called

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Speaker 2: me and said, hey, you know, David's doing a cover

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Speaker 2: of this California Girls going to come in. I said, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 2: and then Ted calls back and says, hey, we're thinking

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Speaker 2: maybe kralcook them with him. I'm like, oh, I get it, now,

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Speaker 2: I get it. That's okay. But so we did a

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Speaker 2: lot of things together, Carl and I did where I

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Speaker 2: was sort of subbing for Brian, if you will, because

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Speaker 2: Brian wasn't that well. So yeah, we did California Girls,

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Speaker 2: which is kind.

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Speaker 1: Of have you ever heard is a rap record?

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Speaker 2: David? No, Brian's Brian made a rap record?

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Speaker 1: Dog? Okay, so that's not right. The Vasti Boys in

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Speaker 1: eighty nine, their pet Sounds is an album called Paul's Boutique,

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Speaker 1: and this is their second album. Of course you know,

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Speaker 1: the first album sold gazillion copies, and you know, known

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Speaker 1: of these Braddy dudes whatever, and they went totally left

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Speaker 1: and made one of the greatest musical art collise records

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Speaker 1: of all time. It's like one of the last Kamikazi

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Speaker 1: sampling records. And it was produced by these guys called

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Speaker 1: the Dust Brothers. It got massive critical claim even though

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Speaker 1: it only sold like it went gold, but it got

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Speaker 1: massive critical acclaim. And I believe somehow Brian Wilson got word.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe kids put him onto it or whatever,

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Speaker 1: but he liked Paul's boutique and wanted to meet the

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Speaker 1: producers of it. So they introduced him to the Dust Brothers.

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Speaker 1: And I think if you go on YouTube, it's not

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Speaker 1: Earth Girls or Smart or Smart Girls, I like Smart

402
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Speaker 1: Girls or something like that. It's it's almost like it's

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Speaker 1: a PSA song.

404
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Speaker 2: About Is this his answer to California Girls?

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Speaker 1: Oh? It probably could be. So he did five songs

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Speaker 1: with the Dust Brothers. And look, I mean, of course

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Speaker 1: old guy rapping. It's gonna come off like the name

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Speaker 1: is Brian and I'm here to say like, and I'm

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Speaker 1: here to say it's always the second every old white

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Speaker 1: Guy rap song. But yeah, he tried it and then

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Speaker 1: stopped after the fifth song.

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Speaker 2: But probably a good idea.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean I minor the balls and the

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Speaker 1: nerve to try to conquer this.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, the adventure to stuff I think's great. I

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Speaker 2: was unaware off to check it out.

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Speaker 1: There you go for all the type casting that you

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Speaker 1: get for the genre of yacht rock, do you own

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Speaker 1: a boat? I do not.

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Speaker 2: One time, when Sailing was released, Warner Brothers bought fifteen

421
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Speaker 2: Hoby Cats with the Christopher Cross first album logo on

422
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Speaker 2: the sail, and they get put him in malls and

423
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Speaker 2: I would go around when I was on the road

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Speaker 2: and people would throw cards in the boats and I

425
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Speaker 2: would pick the card out and you won the boat.

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Speaker 2: So they gave me one. So for a while I

427
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Speaker 2: had a Hoby Cat. But no, I've never what happened

428
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Speaker 2: to it. I don't know. I've got the sail, but

429
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Speaker 2: the boat's along gone. I think I washed away in

430
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Speaker 2: malibur Ing. But you know, I always talk about the

431
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 2: canvas doing miracles. It is more also a painter's canvas.

432
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 2: But maybe that's trying too hard. I did do some

433
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 2: sailing when I was younger, with an older friend of

434
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 2: mine who took me out of the coast and stuff,

435
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 2: and I'm sure that had something to do with it.

436
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 2: But no, I'm not a real avid sailor. I've been

437
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 2: on the America's cup boats and Dennis Connor and stuff

438
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 2: like that, but it's all just pr stuff, you know.

439
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 1: And I'm certain that even now you've done gigs at

440
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: DOC adjacent or oh.

441
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: Come on, yeah, I've done it. Yeah. At nausea, I.

442
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: Say, are you tired of performing near water and outdoors

443
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 1: and everything.

444
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,719
Speaker 2: Well, it's like we talked about the Dock, you know.

445
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 2: I mean, all of us have kind of a love

446
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 2: hate thing with the whole yacht rock thing. You know,

447
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,679
Speaker 2: it's a little kitchy, but it's been fantastic the way

448
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 2: it's brought the younger audience. But I think in the

449
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 2: end of the Dock, I think Fagan kind of speaks

450
00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 2: for all of us in a way. Fagan anywhere it

451
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 2: was fantastic because you know, my daughter Madison, who you know,

452
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 2: produced the doc and when she the last hold out

453
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 2: was Donald for the five songs to get licenses, and

454
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: so the whole deal with Donald was this, Okay, if

455
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 2: you do this, you know, call me up and record

456
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 2: it and put it just as I say. Then I'll

457
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: let you use the song.

458
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: So well, that's all he wanted. This his last middle finger.

459
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 1: Yeah uh Donald figure.

460
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 2: Wow okay, but yeah, sure, I'm the poster child for

461
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 2: the whole yel rock.

462
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: Thinker amen own. It is legendary to me. Okay. So

463
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: the one thing I learned in the doc, especially when

464
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: you're talking about your grammy journey, have you since that

465
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: night been able to properly speak to Barbara Streissan.

466
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 2: Never met her all this time. I saw at a

467
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 2: party once and Calvin Kleine. It was one of these,

468
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 2: you know, Hollywood parties, and I ran it a Calvin Kline,

469
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 2: who I didn't over to start talking to him and

470
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 2: I said something, Oh, there's Brobaras stressing. You know, I've

471
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 2: never met her, and he said, she didn't like you.

472
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 2: But you know what, I think the problem was I

473
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 2: have incredible respect for her and she and Barry and

474
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 2: they were up for guilty. But the problem was I

475
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 2: heard that somebody told her her press people said you

476
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 2: need to come to the awards because you're gonna win,

477
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 2: and as you know, you know that's that's not really true.

478
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think anybody knows who's gonna

479
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 2: No one knows, you know. After I have messed new artist,

480
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 2: I sat down. I was fine for the night. I

481
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 2: was done, you know, they like and then other stuff

482
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: started happening. So when Dinnah Ross, when she announced the

483
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 2: album of the Year, I didn't know what to do.

484
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: I just what is the burden of that level of success.

485
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: Well, it's kind of nowhere to go but down, you know,

486
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 2: like Elvis said, doing to be nice to people on

487
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: the whip. If you don't want to plan on't come

488
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: back down. For me, it was meteoric and I came

489
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 2: out of nowhere, and so there's almost nothing I could

490
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 2: have done to sustain it.

491
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: Now.

492
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 2: I think another page of my second record was a

493
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 2: bit ballid heavy, and the first record was much more eclectic.

494
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 2: So but I've always made the records from where I

495
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 2: was at emotionally, so I couldn't really control that. But

496
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 2: maybe if I'd made a record like some of my

497
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: later records, like Secret Letter in these that are more

498
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 2: you know, diverse as a second record, maybe it's been different.

499
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 2: But I got kind of labeled as a balladeer, especially

500
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 2: after doing Arthur that was in between the first second records,

501
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 2: and that's sort of oh that's who he is, you

502
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 2: know kind of thing. But I wouldn't change it with

503
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 2: thing for the world. But no, it's a big burden,

504
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 2: the sophomoric effort. I think everybody that's you know, Bruce

505
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 2: hornsby Ricky Lee Jones, it's a tough Tracy Chapman, it's

506
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 2: a tough thing to sort of try to do the

507
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 2: gate duplicate that you know, and some people Billy Ollis

508
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 2: is doing really well with it. But it's a yeah,

509
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 2: it's just but you know, I wouldn't trade it for

510
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 2: the world. Quest It's like, you know, the career I've had,

511
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 2: I never would have imagined any of it. So I'm

512
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 2: just thrilled at what's happened.

513
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: Have you ever went through the Nirvana phase where I'm

514
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,479
Speaker 1: almost certain that a year after Nevermind came out like

515
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: they refuse to do smells like teen spirit, like we're

516
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: just not doing it? Like for you is was there

517
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: a time where you could I don't feel like doing

518
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 1: sailing tonight or I like to win.

519
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I feel it's a disservice to the audience.

520
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: They paying for a ticket to come see you, and

521
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: those are the songs they come to. I've got about

522
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: six well known songs. So I was telling the guys

523
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 2: earlier that sometimes I feel like I could play those

524
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 2: six songs three times and it would be totally fine

525
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 2: for the audience. But the biggest no, no, no, I'm

526
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 2: thrilled with the songs. They're kind of like stones in

527
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 2: the river that I step on to get across from

528
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 2: a note e minute set. But I mean, it's it's tough.

529
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 2: I've made twelve albums and I'm very fond of the

530
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: later work, and it's tough that only a very few

531
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 2: people I us know about these later deep cuts, but

532
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 2: we do play some of them.

533
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: How do you curate the big six next to what

534
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: you really want to do?

535
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 2: Well? You just like I said, there are little stones

536
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 2: in the river. I just play them where I've got.

537
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 2: I give them a little treat, you know, with a

538
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 2: start with never be the Same or something, and then

539
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 2: I'll sneak in a couple of deep cuts and about

540
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: the time they're like, I'll go, oh wait a minute,

541
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: here's sailing, you know. So, And like the other night,

542
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 2: I had something happened and I had to do something

543
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 2: acoustically because the PA went wrong. So I played Sailing

544
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: again on the acoustic by myself and the audience sang

545
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: along and everybody runs the event. He played it twice.

546
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 2: You know, I literally think I could do the tune

547
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 2: two or three times that, but I don't regret it.

548
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 2: I mean, look, they put me on the map, so

549
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 2: it's absolutely great. There are artists I know who who

550
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 2: you know, they don't do that. They won't play certain

551
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 2: songs and all that, and I think that's kind of

552
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 2: a disservice to your fans, you know that.

553
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: I think I shared this before we did a show

554
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: like once a year when he's active, Dave Matthews will

555
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: do like his personal festival where he curates all the

556
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 1: artists that come whatever. And spin doctors were coming on

557
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: right before the Roots were about to perform, and like

558
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: the way that like they treated two princes almost like

559
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: it was filler, like it was the fourth song or

560
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: the fifth song. They did it in such a strug way,

561
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: like oh by the way, and I'm staying there at

562
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: the side, like wait a minute, like you guys do

563
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 1: know that this is the song that they came to

564
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: hear and the fact that they had another forty to

565
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: fifty minutes to go without any of their signature songs

566
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: like was such a curious choice to me, but they

567
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,239
Speaker 1: sort of treated it like, we'll just make it our

568
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: fifth song instead of like the encore or whatever.

569
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 2: Well, you know, if I was elting John and I

570
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 2: had I could play two hours of hits, I would

571
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: have a problem, right. And then there's actually like Steely Dan,

572
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 2: where you know, they haven't had really that many big

573
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 2: hits on the radio, but every song's a hit. Oh well, man,

574
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: you know, can't buy thrill in this early. But I'm

575
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: saying they can play something.

576
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: I know them for the filler. Actually, I know, like

577
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: you know we we especially your first album, Like I

578
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: thought half those songs were actual singles and hits. I

579
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: didn't realize that only a few.

580
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 2: But four of them were.

581
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, but I identify arts based on their filler.

582
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: Whatever makes it the radio makes it the radio. But

583
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: for me, the true sign of an artist is what

584
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: they do with the songs that aren't that. And so

585
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:15,479
Speaker 1: because equality is still high level to me, I just

586
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: always I literally thought your entire first record was all

587
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: singles that.

588
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: God bless you to that I think that that you know,

589
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: Dave Matthews is an artist who's kind of almost like,

590
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 2: in my mind, almost like a deep cut artist because

591
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: he's so esoteric. But I think for me, I'm kind

592
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,959
Speaker 2: of stuck with these songs that everybody knows. I wouldn't

593
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 2: never not play them. I get a wonderful reaction to

594
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 2: them that makes me feel great. But the only downside is,

595
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 2: like I said, i'd say half two thirds of the

596
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: audience in my opinion from what I can feel, they

597
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: come for those songs, and then some people are receptive.

598
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: But I'll start the show. I go learn to from

599
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: James Taylor. James up with a blackboard and he'll say,

600
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: here's the first set, here's the second, here's Bibe James,

601
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 2: here's fire and Rain. But I'm also going to be

602
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 2: playing some I just saw James. He said, I'm gonna

603
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: be playing some songs for my new record, and he said,

604
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: I know what you're saying is goddamn new songs, but

605
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: he said I want to play them, and it was good,

606
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,959
Speaker 2: and I do that too. I'll say, listen, hopefully we're

607
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: going to play all the songs you came to hear,

608
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: but we're also going to play some deep cuts later.

609
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy them, because otherwise you wouldn't hear them.

610
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 2: And you know, people they do try, but they're never

611
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 2: getting the reaction to a deep cut that you would.

612
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: But then again, some guy in the audience will yell

613
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: out some obscure tune, you know. Okay, so, but and

614
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 2: maybe I underestimate how much the audience knows about other

615
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: songs and deep cuts just because of amun insecurity. But

616
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's all a blessing and a curse.

617
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: You know, what is the best compliment a fan has

618
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: given you about your music? And what's the best compliment

619
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: that appear has given you about your music?

620
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 2: Well, the best compliment a fan, let's see, or the

621
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: most surprising one. Well, somebody said to me, this is

622
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: a tune. I have a window album called Angry young Men,

623
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: and it's about teenangs and stuff. And there's a line

624
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 2: that says to come to maturity with some sense of dignity,

625
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 2: and I really mean it about personal growth. But he said,

626
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,959
Speaker 2: you know that line in your song. He said, I

627
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: know what it means, but I also think it applies

628
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: to your career because you said you've managed to maintain

629
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 2: your dignity throughout all these records you've made because you

630
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 2: just you keep doing the best work you can and

631
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: all this stuff. And I loved that comment. And then

632
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: the nicest comment I heard from Maurice White, Rest of

633
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 2: Soul It's starting Marri's White one day and I said,

634
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 2: you know, vocally, I'm kind of ethnically challenged, you know,

635
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: And Maurice said, man, it's not about that, man, I

636
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 2: can feel it when you sing.

637
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: True.

638
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: And that was like very heavy for me for Maurice

639
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: to say that to me. And I think what he

640
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 2: was trying to say was, look, man, that stuff's cool,

641
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 2: but like the important thing is can somebody feel when

642
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 2: you're singing? And he said, I feel it when you sing? Man.

643
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 2: That was probably one of them really took it to heart.

644
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: That was pretty wonderful.

645
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: So all right, so you're a Texas musician, but you're

646
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: kind of the poster child of what we associate as

647
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: the southern California right sound. What is traditionally Texan about

648
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: your music or your songwriting that critics get wrong? What

649
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: do you feel is in your Texas roots that is

650
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: in your music?

651
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: Well, I think right, like the wind is. Certainly it's

652
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: sort of based on all these cowboy serials I used

653
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 2: to watch, you know, and also living in San Antonio,

654
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: there was an allure fascination with going into Mexico because

655
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 2: when you were a kid, it was like debauchery and

656
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: it was all the stuff you could got down there

657
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: your parents didn't want you to do. You know, I

658
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: could just get over to Mexico. You could drink tequila

659
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: and you could do crazy shit. So but I'll admit that,

660
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: you know, even in Austin, a lot of people because

661
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 2: they moved to Austin pretty early on in sixty nine,

662
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: you know, I was a fish out of water, you know,

663
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: Austin some more of a blues roadhouse kind of country

664
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: music kind of vibe. And so I never really fit

665
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 2: in as far as my music. And of course I

666
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 2: always identified, you know, with the Beach Boys in southern California,

667
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: so Johnny Mitchell and all that stuff. And so I

668
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 2: admit that I'm not your typical Texan kind of sounding artist.

669
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: Was very influenced by Billy Gibbons as a guitarist, and

670
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 2: Zzi's amazing, but you know, Texan is Texas is known

671
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: for the Stevie Ray kind of vibe, and I think

672
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: now in Texas. The problem is, if you go to

673
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: a globe in Texas, you hear all these young guitar

674
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: players who are trying to be Stevie Ray. And a

675
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: friend of mine coined a great phrase that they're Stevie

676
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: Ray vannabees, and you want to go, look, you're not

677
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: You're not Stevie Ray and stop trying to be him,

678
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: because there was only one Stevie Ray. But anyway, yeah,

679
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: I'm not your typical I don't really, except for Right

680
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 2: at the Wind, which kind of has those roots. I mean,

681
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 2: I don't know, I think that you're right. I'm kind

682
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: of more of a southern California boy, you know, with

683
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: what and I grew up you know, Jonny Mitchell, Dave Crosby,

684
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: acoustic guitars. That's why the whole MTV video thing didn't

685
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 2: really I didn't connect and resonate with that too well

686
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: because it wasn't how I grew up. I grew up

687
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: with songwriters.

688
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: I was gonna say that because you didn't appear on

689
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: your album covers or like rarely in your videos. Again

690
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: in retrospect, especially with a song like right Like the

691
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: Winner and sailing, Like if Stevie Wonder made videos for

692
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: songs in the Key of Life, I'd be disappointed because

693
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: I have the exact picture of, you know, whatever synaestiesia

694
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: level that I have of what I think those songs are,

695
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: as we all do with anything that we heard pre

696
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one. But knowing what you know now, would

697
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: you have leaned into getting heavy into videos, knowing that

698
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: you're probably the last artist that could pull the anonymous

699
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: trick and reap in millions in sales? But retroactively, do

700
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: you think that you would have played that card a

701
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: little bit different?

702
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the truth of it is, you know,

703
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 2: the video thing came along very much litt But I

704
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 2: will say I think videos in general, at least early on,

705
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 2: to me, they sort of obscured the lyrical landscape of

706
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: somebody like Joni Mitchell. I don't want to see a

707
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 2: Joni Mitchell video. You know, she's so brilliant that I

708
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 2: want to just paint my own picture of my head

709
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 2: for whatever she and I'd rediscover her lyrics. All tam

710
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 2: Sam was steely down. I mean, the only video Donal

711
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 2: ever made it was New Frontier, which he didn't play himself, right,

712
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 2: But I'll admit. Look, the first album, that cover was

713
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 2: painted by a drummer, Jimmy Newhouse, that I was working

714
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 2: with at the time, and he showed it to me

715
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: and said, I think this is what your music looked like.

716
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 2: So I brought it to Warners and they did it.

717
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 2: But I'll admit too, you know, I was overweight, I

718
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 2: certainly do look like Brad Pitt, and so I was

719
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 2: pretty self conscious, and so I wasn't that interested in

720
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 2: putting my picture on the cover.

721
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: You know.

722
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 2: In fact, I remember it at Howard Sterns show. Robin said,

723
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 2: you know, she made some crack about the fact that

724
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 2: she loved my voice, but she said, I was disappointed

725
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 2: when I saw you. I thought you'd looked like Kenny Loggins.

726
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: Oh god.

727
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: And Howard jumped to my defense, you know, but uh

728
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: but anyway, so I think part of it's that was

729
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: just my being self conscious about my own appearance that

730
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 2: I didn't really you know, I look like Rick Springfield

731
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: or something. I probably would have put a picture everywhere,

732
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: but so and then the video thing, I just physically

733
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 2: wasn't used to doing that kind of thing, and it

734
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: wasn't Also what I was drawn to because the artists

735
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 2: that I reveal, like Randy Newman, you know, Jony uh They,

736
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 2: Tom Waits. You know, Tom's much more theatrical now. But

737
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 2: you know, it just it wasn't ever present at that point,

738
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: so I didn't acclimate to it.

739
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: What was your relationship with the Warnicker and Austin like

740
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: the Warner Brothers family during that time period.

741
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 2: Well, Michael Aston most the one that signed me. He

742
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 2: a kind of an interesting story real quick. I was

743
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: sending my demos and from Texas. You know, I'd make

744
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 2: these demos in the studio and I would send it

745
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 2: to Warner Brothers. And I looked in the Billboard magazine

746
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: because I didn't anything about an R. I didn't anything

747
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 2: about that stuff. I looked in there and there was

748
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 2: Moe Austin, chairman of the board, and then below him

749
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 2: was David Berson, who was his assistant. So I said, okay,

750
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 2: I'll send my tape to David Berson. I did anything

751
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,959
Speaker 2: about an R. Lenny Worthy couple. I send my tape

752
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 2: to David person who'd never gotten a tape. He was

753
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 2: a lawyer in Moe's office, okay, and he'd never gotten

754
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 2: a tape from anybody. So he's going to have lunch

755
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 2: with Lenny worker that day, and he said, hey, check

756
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 2: this tape out I got in the mail. Lenny said,

757
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 2: give me a break, I'm at lunch. Puts it in

758
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 2: and Lenny says, you know what, I kind of like

759
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 2: his voice. Give it to me. And that's how it

760
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: all got started. To give it to Michael Austin to

761
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 2: check it out, and then it all and Michael ended

762
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: up signing me. But I actually the sertatipitous nature of it.

763
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 2: I sent my tape to the wrong guy, and Lenny

764
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 2: told me at the time they were not accepting any

765
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 2: outside material unless it came from a known producer of somebody.

766
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 2: So he said, chances are your tape would have been

767
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 2: putting an envelope and sent back to you. Thanks, no thanks,

768
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: But because you sent it to the wrong guy and

769
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 2: he played it for me, then you got heard and

770
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 2: we started a dialogue. But now I was very close

771
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 2: with Russ and Lenny, and I'm still close with all

772
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: of them. Michael, I saw Michael recently lost his house

773
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: in Pelsas for Sadley, but yeah, yeah, those guys were

774
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 2: the guys at the time, you know, they were producing

775
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: Brandy and Ricky Lee and all that. And I always

776
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: wanted to be on Warner Brothers because you know, they

777
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 2: had Ben Morrison and Joni and they the artist. They

778
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 2: seemed like more of a naturally, the whole building was

779
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,720
Speaker 2: all wood, and it was a different vibe than MCA

780
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 2: or one of the big corporate companies. So but no, yeah,

781
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 2: that's how it all went down for me. Man, I

782
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 2: sent my tape to the wrong guy.

783
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: So there was a time period in which a record

784
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: label felt like home and we're nurturing and you could

785
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 1: go to those guys and like, when's your version of

786
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: the Mason Dixon line of suddenly this just became a

787
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: corporation and suits without I always heard that Warner Brothers

788
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: was like a home.

789
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 2: It was, and I think based on what I saw

790
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 2: from other companies, you know, not to pick on Memsia

791
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 2: of these more corporate well, you know, Napster probably was

792
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: the beginning of kind of all that. But I'll say that, like,

793
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,919
Speaker 2: you know, Moe started Repriets with Frank Sinatra, and Moe's

794
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: was a record guy, you know, from the beginning, and

795
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 2: so there was a different feel there. I mean, I

796
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 2: think that there was a true love of music there,

797
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 2: and so it was a very different vibe of I

798
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: met a lot of people like I was at Warner

799
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 2: Brothers in New York and met Vegan, you know, so

800
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: there was it was a camaraderie there. Anyway, answer your question,

801
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean I will say one thing.

802
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: You know, I'm seventy five soon. And there was a

803
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: cycle of life back then. People talk about the record companies.

804
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,959
Speaker 2: Yes they charged too much for CDs. Granted they could

805
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 2: have sold for five bucks. But regardless, I sold ten

806
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 2: million records and Warners probably made a hundred million dollars

807
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: whatever and whatever I made. But there was a cycle

808
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 2: to life. You know, you wrote songs, you went in

809
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 2: the studio at their expense, with producers, You made a record,

810
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 2: went out on the road, went to record stores and

811
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 2: did in stores, went to the radio. There was any

812
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: way back into the studio. There was a cycle of

813
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 2: life back then to this whole thing, and you were

814
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 2: not responsible for a lot of it. Didn't have to

815
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 2: come up with the money, didn't have to promote their record,

816
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 2: didn't have to do all this stuff. So I don't

817
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: begrudge them for the money they made. Plus it was

818
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 2: kind of sweet because you just wrote music and toured

819
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 2: and played. Now whether granted there's a lot of advantages

820
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 2: the YouTube and pro tools and all this stuff you

821
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 2: can do in your house, but promoting yourself, it's all

822
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: left up to you, and so I lament the loss

823
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 2: of all that. It was a pretty cool model.

824
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: So how do you How did you wind up choosing

825
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: the personnel for your first album and subsequently, I mean

826
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: they worked on at least the first foard like Michael

827
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: uh oh.

828
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: Michael Lomarti and was just signed as a staff producer.

829
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: Oh so he see, I didn't come along at a

830
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: time in which like house producers, right produced, like so

831
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: Russ Titlement was also.

832
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: Staff producer Lenny Warnicker Ted Temple, So this is why, right,

833
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 2: and so Michael had been you know, played Longinson Messina

834
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 2: and he's from Chicago and Michael and Marty and he

835
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 2: has just been signed. And then Michael Austin brought me

836
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 2: to Warner Bros. For the meeting. I was actually kind

837
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 2: of a dick. He introduced me to know Marty and

838
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, what's up? And I was looking

839
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 2: around for Ted Templemanute Gary Katz around who's right.

840
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: Right, right?

841
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 2: And so finally Michael Austin could tell the meeting was

842
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 2: not going well, and he said, you know, Michael and

843
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 2: Marty and played on a lot of Steely dance stuff.

844
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: And I said, because he knew I was Steely Frisson,

845
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 2: really like what Michael and Michael and Marty and humbly said,

846
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 2: well like everything you know? So this this is great,

847
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 2: so I said, And so I said, you know, I

848
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 2: just come from Texas and I don't know anything. So

849
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 2: I said to him, you know Larry Carlton and he goes, yeah, sure.

850
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 2: I said, can you get in to plan my record?

851
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 2: And he said sure? And I said, you know, he

852
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 2: doesn't do sessions anymore, he's like an artist now and

853
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 2: he said no, but I know very pretty well. I

854
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 2: think I can play Brik. So here's the deal. If

855
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 2: you can get Larry Carlton to plan my record, you

856
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 2: can produce my record. And that was the agreement that

857
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 2: I made that day. Okay, and later on years later,

858
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 2: when I told Carlton the story said, I should have

859
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: been getting points.

860
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: It came in hot. Okay.

861
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but and then so but the original band they

862
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: were from Texas. They were the original band that I

863
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 2: that I formed back in Texas, and they played on

864
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: the first record, and uh one tune think of Laura

865
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: on the second record. But you know, Marty and was

866
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 2: used to Steely Dan and used to session musicians. So

867
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: the second record we went with Steve gadd Nae Bilberril

868
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: Senior and we started going down that road and Toto

869
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 2: and all those people, so we started going there, you know.

870
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 2: But that was the model I always dreamt of. You know,

871
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 2: Steely's always been my sort of template for the kind

872
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 2: of records I wanted to make. So when I had

873
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 2: the opportunity to play with Gad and these guys, when

874
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 2: I was thrilled.

875
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: Oh man, and there, Carl, did you at any point

876
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: just have a video camera handy like taping your sessions?

877
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: Just to I think that. I don't think it was

878
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 2: video cameras then there was. There was I think the polaroids. Yeah,

879
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 2: but no, but it was it was I was my

880
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 2: own fly on the wall because it was I started

881
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 2: out as a you know originally, and and I believe me,

882
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: all these guys I worked with, like Jeff and Steve

883
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 2: and Vinnie and all these guys, I mean just fantastic players.

884
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 2: It was kind of a dream come true because I

885
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 2: was kind of, like I said, living the Steely dream.

886
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 2: I was working with all the same musicians that they

887
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 2: worked with, and I wanted to make those kind of records.

888
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 2: I wanted to make that kind of sophisticated pop.

889
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: You know. Okay, now I feel like such an imposter,

890
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: but like my guitar player, Kirk is living in my

891
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: head right now.

892
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: It's like love him.

893
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: You never asked you as guitarist, like what gear they like,

894
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 1: because people want to know, like what were you using?

895
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: What was your your acts of choice for that particular

896
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: album to get that clean sound.

897
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 2: Well, stratt, you know, certainly a strat for those days,

898
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 2: and I think it was playing fenders, you know, it

899
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 2: was not that remarkable strat fenders and I think that,

900
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,320
Speaker 2: you know, my like I said, my my guitar heroes

901
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 2: were you know, Gibbons and Jeff Beck and you know,

902
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 2: people like that, Larry Carlton. But yeah, I've always been

903
00:43:58,040 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: a gearhead, but yeah, it was it was more of

904
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 2: the production style of getting these players in the studio

905
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 2: who kind of make the magic. You know, you bring

906
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 2: in a tune with a chart and they expound on

907
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: that harmonically, you know, they bring a thing to it,

908
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 2: like even Fagan. I think Donald plays well, but I

909
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 2: think Greg fill gains Can, Marty and these guys can

910
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 2: you know, spread their fingers bigger than Olascar Peterson style, right,

911
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 2: And so that's one of the things I loved about

912
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,439
Speaker 2: what Amartian did for the music is playing, but also

913
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 2: the string arrangements and everything like that.

914
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, like for songwriting sessions

915
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: because of Michael's mastery of keyboards and just the way

916
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: he thinks in terms of chord progressions and whatnot, how

917
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 1: did that open up your world as far as ideas

918
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: you had in your head, Because I mean I've heard

919
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: the demos of the stuff you did. So the demos

920
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 1: that you did, did you do those on your own?

921
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 2: Well, get them on my own, and I think they're

922
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 2: very I said in my box set, I think they're

923
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: very The bones are there, you know, the bones are

924
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 2: there that we a Marty and of course played, He

925
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 2: did the string arrangements, He did things to the music

926
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,240
Speaker 2: to make it, you know, more sophisticated. But the bones

927
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 2: on sailing right out the when those those tunes, uh,

928
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 2: you know, we had such a long way to go

929
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 2: in all those parts because singing him but but A

930
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 2: Martian brought some wonderful things to it. And I think

931
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 2: for me at one moment with a Marty that was

932
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,399
Speaker 2: funny was he's probably the most talented cat I've ever

933
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 2: worked with. He's just incredibly powerful. But he at one

934
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 2: point he was second record. I think he was doing

935
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 2: some takedowns. I was playing him a new tune. He

936
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 2: was doing some takedowns and I noticed he's writing ahead

937
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 2: of what I'm playing for him really, and I was like,

938
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 2: what the fuck? Man? You know I didn't play that

939
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 2: cord yet He goes, well, I mean I know your

940
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: style harmonically, so I just figured monitor and I said, well, man,

941
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: I feel like I kind of a chump here. But

942
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 2: but you know, he he's he's so brilliant that he

943
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 2: could do that. But no, he brought a lot, a

944
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: lot to the music. And Uh. In fact, the on Sailing,

945
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 2: the solo song was written and we had a synth

946
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 2: solo on it, on the solo and Sailing, and I

947
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 2: came back to the studio after being at dinner or

948
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 2: something and Michael was seen the lights for him singing

949
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 2: at the Grand piano and he said, I've got someone

950
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 2: want you to hear. He had played the solo to Sailing,

951
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 2: you know, and it was exquisite. But I was so

952
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 2: wrapped into the Steely Dan thing that he said, and

953
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 2: it was it was really emotional for him. He was

954
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: very proud of it, and he said, and deservedly so.

955
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,439
Speaker 2: But he said, what do you think? And I said

956
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 2: it's pretty beautiful. But I said, I think there's a

957
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 2: note in the second bar that's a little late. And

958
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 2: he said what And I said, I mean Steely Dan

959
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 2: would never let that go. And he just went, you

960
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 2: know what, man, I am so I am so sick

961
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 2: of hearing about Steely Dan. And he got his portion left,

962
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 2: you know, and he'd wait, yeah, he just said, you

963
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 2: know what, man, if you don't get And of course

964
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 2: I listened to it a few times and when of

965
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 2: course it's exquisite, perfect, but I was so wrapped up

966
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 2: in the perfection of how Donald Walter worked that it

967
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 2: was like and he done all those records.

968
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: Were you afraid of being too pristine?

969
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 2: No, the more pristine the better. And of course people

970
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 2: say Steely's too sterile and all that stuff. I hear

971
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 2: those arguments. But for me, I mean they're as first

972
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 2: of pop record making at the time, and even it

973
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 2: holds up. I mean they're the masters that in my opinion, can.

974
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: You rank your top five steal the albums? Because the

975
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 1: thing is, I know that entire catalog, but it's not

976
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: because I put it on the record and listen to it.

977
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: I just happen to be at a place where I'll

978
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: catch this verse of this bar. Maybe I'll be on

979
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: the airplane. Remember they used to curate the music for

980
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 1: you with those little plastic headphones. You hear a song

981
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: or whatever. I know all the songs.

982
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 2: Like.

983
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 1: A great example is uh, it's so hard to pronounce

984
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: a lot of yeah votasofa I could never say that word.

985
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 1: What is it again?

986
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 2: Bots means like a guru, you know?

987
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: All right? So I think, for one, I'm a weird

988
00:47:53,640 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 1: kid that in a three thousand album household there be

989
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 1: a bunch of records that had scary looking covers. To me,

990
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: so the Royal Scam album covered this is probably why

991
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: I got turned off the silly Dan The Royal Scam

992
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 1: album covered with the buildings with things. Nah, I couldn't

993
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: do that, so I would hide certain records that were

994
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: scary to me, either the bottom of the pile or

995
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: like away in the household, and Royal Scam was one

996
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: of those things. Which was weird because once we got

997
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: into the sampling age and everyone's praising Conye for this,

998
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 1: you know, genius level sampling and steely damn record, and

999
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 1: I'm realizing that too, these things came from Royal Scam.

1000
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: I was like, damn, Like I did myself a deserve

1001
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: is not studying this record because I was scared of

1002
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: the album cover.

1003
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, kids, Charlot Man on that record score. So my

1004
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 2: best top five stuff can't buy thrill met all of them.

1005
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 2: Pretzel logic, you know, Royal Scam.

1006
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 1: Or Katy, what's your number? What's your fifth record?

1007
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 2: Katie Laude? Asia? Of course Asia?

1008
00:48:58,360 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: You know so Asia is number four?

1009
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 2: Well it's a tough one, man. You're uh, Asia?

1010
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,760
Speaker 1: All right? You could save one album from their catalog?

1011
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: What is it They're going to give you permission to

1012
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: curate a box set for? Just what's the album that

1013
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:15,879
Speaker 1: you want to dive into the most?

1014
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 2: Well, probably Asia only because I think for all of us,

1015
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 2: that's when the big shift moved, when they started to

1016
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 2: really go into the jazz idiom thing, us jazz players

1017
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 2: and all that stuff, and it kind of blew up.

1018
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 2: But it's mind when they and They'll said the same thing,

1019
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 2: when they started to really let that influence come out,

1020
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 2: their influences from the jazz era. So I think it's

1021
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 2: an incredibly gorgeous record. You know, the cover was painted

1022
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: by that comedian Phil Hartman.

1023
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: I learned this.

1024
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but but no, I think Asia's you know,

1025
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 2: it's Joni. I read something recently. She loves Galcho and

1026
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 2: Asia both. She just loved and loves them both, and

1027
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 2: she she really has a lot of respect for them.

1028
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, I mean all this the later

1029
00:49:58,000 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 2: all the records they've made then of course kamic here

1030
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 2: and some of the stuff they did later it was

1031
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 2: more groove stuff. But yeah, and then Nightfly when Walter

1032
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 2: was not doing well. I was in the studio when

1033
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 2: they were.

1034
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: Always wondered why that wasn't a Steely Dan record as

1035
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: opposed to a Fagan solo record.

1036
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 2: Well, Walter, to my knowledge, Walter was you know, using

1037
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 2: whatever crossing the street and near was sit by a

1038
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 2: cab leg broken pretty bad. He was in the hospital

1039
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: for like a year, so during that time they had

1040
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 2: started Gaucho and Donald finished Gaucho on his own. And

1041
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 2: I actually got to go in the studio when they

1042
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 2: were when Donald's working on Gaucho. And then after that,

1043
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 2: you know, Donald made Nightfly just because Walter was not around,

1044
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 2: so he made a solo record and that's the story

1045
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 2: I heard. But and then I got to be in

1046
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: the studio in New York when he was doing and

1047
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 2: we're going on a new Frontier or something, so it

1048
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 2: was pretty cool.

1049
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 1: But you have to witness that.

1050
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Donald, I'd be up with New Frontier. I

1051
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 2: was down there for that. Also, Roger Nichols's engineer was a

1052
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 2: good friend of mine, and Gary would Katz would have

1053
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 2: be down sometimes and Donald was fine with it. But

1054
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 2: but yeah, I think Gaucho Donald finished on his own,

1055
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 2: and then Nightfly he did. But yeah, it was because

1056
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 2: Walter wasn't doing well.

1057
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:07,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, when so legendary drummer James Gatson had passed away

1058
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: earlier yes year, and I revisited all of his session

1059
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: work and you know, of course I know that he

1060
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: is on Nightfly. Like for me, I will say, like

1061
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: ig wise, if I had to choose a soundtrack for

1062
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 1: like a nonspecific but a very happy moment in my life.

1063
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: Like I don't know what it was about what was

1064
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 1: happening in November December of eighty two, seventh grade, but

1065
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: every time I hear that song, like it takes me back.

1066
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 1: And the thing is is that that wasn't a rosy

1067
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: picture of my life. But I think the purpose of

1068
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: music is to appear in your life as the highlight

1069
00:51:56,280 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 1: to an otherwise drab and dreary time. So like for

1070
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: me hearing hearing those records, especially with New Frontier and

1071
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 1: everything like that.

1072
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 2: That, yeah, it was just you know, Greg filling Gains

1073
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 2: up until just very recently he was in Toto, working

1074
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 2: with Toto. Now I think he's playing with Sammy Hagar.

1075
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 2: But anyway, Greg played on my GUI and uh no,

1076
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 2: it's funny with them because you know, you're right, it's

1077
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 2: such a wonderful field to that tune. And yet you know,

1078
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 2: most of the time you see Donald, he doesn't look

1079
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 2: like the happiest guy. And I just saw a funny

1080
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 2: thing about Steely DWN the ten funniest things they ever said,

1081
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 2: and one of them was Walter was interviewed and they said,

1082
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 2: do you guys have any hobbies or pastimes, and Walter

1083
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 2: said brooding. Brooding is a big one, which I loved.

1084
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: How did you wind up being friends with them?

1085
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 2: Because well, I can't say so. Well, I can't say

1086
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 2: I'm really friends with Donald. I mean, we're aint. He's

1087
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 2: like so many people in this business. I know, not

1088
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 2: like something like Michael McDonald I'm very close to. But

1089
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 2: Donald's an acquaintance. You know, we're friendly when I see him.

1090
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 2: But I met him years ago at Warner brother But

1091
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 2: you know, he's not the most at least in my experience,

1092
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 2: not the warmest. Yeah, warm and fuzzy. He's not that

1093
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 2: easy to get to talk to. Walter was more affable.

1094
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, I'm just such an awe the guy.

1095
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 2: But I've been, you know, fortunate to be. I got

1096
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 2: invited down with my cats to those two sessions and

1097
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 2: stuff like that. He's actually wonderful. It's just you know,

1098
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 2: he's not a big talker. You know, he doesn't really

1099
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 2: gives you one word answers or stuffing that maybe not

1100
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 2: to other people he knows real well.

1101
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: But you know, I think in I forget the album

1102
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: that they worked on in the nineties, but cats called

1103
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: me in if I'm doing more than three takes, then

1104
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: something's wrong. You know, normally I can nail what you

1105
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 1: want in two takes. I think I got out there

1106
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: in two hours, right, They were like, okay, let's do

1107
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: it again. I think they have this theory where it's

1108
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: like they want you to be not so studied but

1109
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: like muscle memory. And I think by that point in

1110
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: ninety four, I was so helping on being such a

1111
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: perfectionist metronome, and they kept trying to get me like

1112
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: what you know, like play looser, you know, play more

1113
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: purple or yeah, I'd get finally when I like when

1114
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,280
Speaker 1: I finally got to DiAngelo, who you know, the magic

1115
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,439
Speaker 1: of playing with DiAngelo was you know, the sloppier you are,

1116
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: the more. But in my mind, I'm thinking of like

1117
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: all the drummers in all city high school and obstacles

1118
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 1: I had to like overcome as far as like technique

1119
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: and especially now, like you know, musicians are so help

1120
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: bent on look mino hands and this technique I have

1121
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 1: and whatever. So just to undo the perfection and just.

1122
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 2: If you should have doctor Bernard pretty for you went

1123
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 2: to do the session because you know when Bernard did

1124
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 2: Babylon Sisters. Michael was on the date, so was Chuck Raindy,

1125
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 2: and Michael told me that, oh wasn't there, but Michael

1126
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 2: told me that first take. Bernard got up and walked out,

1127
00:54:55,560 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 2: said I got my part and already, and then Chuck

1128
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 2: Rady looked at each other and like, no one walks

1129
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 2: out on Steely Dan. So then Donald Walter listened to

1130
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 2: the board and said he's right, and he got first take.

1131
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 2: So you got to have his Bravados.

1132
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 1: Party did a session for my dad once and my

1133
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: dad introduced me to him. I think it was like

1134
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 1: two or three and my dad says, come here, he says,

1135
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 1: do you know this is I was like no, and

1136
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 1: he's Bernard Party. He's like, Bernard, tell me how do

1137
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 1: you keep food on the table? And Bernard's like the

1138
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: two and the four and I didn't understand what that meant.

1139
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 1: But basically, the more straight ahead you are not fancy.

1140
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 2: Then well of course he you know, he did the

1141
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:42,800
Speaker 2: famous pretty shuffle, which.

1142
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: Is yes, nothing but Grace notes right exactly, all right.

1143
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 1: So you paint this picture of an outlaw on the

1144
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: run and whatever headed for the border? Did you base

1145
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: that character on a movie that you saw or a

1146
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 1: dream that that you had, Like, what, what was the

1147
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: basis of your outlaw character?

1148
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 2: For well, when I was my dad was a doctor

1149
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 2: in the army, So back then you go to the

1150
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 2: movies for twenty five cents. So we'd go to the

1151
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 2: movie theater on the base and they would have these

1152
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 2: cowboy serials like The Lone Ranger or Hoplng Cassidy and

1153
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 2: these kind of guys, and they were always chasing the outlaw,

1154
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 2: you know, and trying to catch them before he made

1155
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 2: it to Mexico. And even though they never showed what

1156
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 2: went on there, you know, the rumors grew and so

1157
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 2: it was just like it was, like said Teenagster, the

1158
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 2: anarchism of just escaping your parents' control. So Mexico became

1159
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 2: this mystical world of like debauchery, that you could go

1160
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 2: down there and drink and you could do stuff you

1161
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 2: know that your parents would hate. So that's kind of

1162
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 2: what it's about. If I could just make it at

1163
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 2: the border in Mexico, like the Onion. The Onion some

1164
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 2: years ago had a thing it said Christopher Cross finally

1165
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 2: made it to the border of Mexico. But interesting story

1166
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 2: for you is I don't know I ever told this on

1167
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 2: a thing. So we used to play the club, you know,

1168
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:13,839
Speaker 2: covers and stuff like that, and I have to tell

1169
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 2: McCartney this unless he checked your bucket. I don't think

1170
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 2: I ever told Paul. But we were doing nineteen eighty

1171
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 2: five the Wings tune, and we you know, we played

1172
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 2: four or five hours and nights. He had extend tunes

1173
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 2: and all this stuff as a dance floor. So we're

1174
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 2: playing nineteen eighty five. It's a C minor. So we're

1175
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 2: playing nineteen five getting into a jam and people are dancing.

1176
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 2: And I started doing that and people I noticed that

1177
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 2: they were like really getting into it, you know, and

1178
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 2: it was another level of energy.

1179
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 1: Nineteen eighty five. That's where the inspiration for that center

1180
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: around came from.

1181
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 2: So I took that part and I went, you know,

1182
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 2: there's something about this that's got the thing. So then

1183
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 2: I wrote the tune around that. I had that part first,

1184
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 2: and then I wrote the verses.

1185
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 1: Damn.

1186
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 2: And I don't think I've ever told Paul that. He's

1187
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 2: probably gonna say I should have got a royalties. He

1188
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 2: is enough royaltieth, But no, that's it. The seat of

1189
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 2: the song came from my Tenay McCartney, I ripped them off.

1190
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: I love that turn around man, wow.

1191
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 2: And but I had that and then I had to

1192
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 2: build a song around it. And then of course I

1193
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 2: mentioned the doc, the yacht rock doc, that I had

1194
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 2: the music all finally finished and we're driving down to

1195
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 2: you know, from Houston or gig descent to Austin. When

1196
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: I went to record the thing. That's when I said

1197
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 2: to the doc, which I got all this bad stuff

1198
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 2: whereas I took a hit acid and were in the

1199
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 2: car and I wrote the lyrics on the way down to.

1200
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: Austin that made you even cooler than me, Like, well.

1201
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 2: Yes, a couple of these guys you probably know them

1202
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 2: that they were on they have some kind of podcast

1203
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 2: thing and my daughter sent it to me, said these

1204
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 2: guys are really cool and they're like yeah, man, all right,

1205
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 2: Christopher Cross so weed, you know, and they were like

1206
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 2: totally up. Well, your generation maybe, well, but for my generation.

1207
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: I'm not. There's nothing more majority about me at all,

1208
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: like you know, when you have that magic part. And

1209
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: this is what I always wanted to know about song structuring,

1210
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: because for my world, when we're mining for gold, especially

1211
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: in terms of where classic hip hop was where a

1212
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 1: lot of the music was derived from sampling from other records.

1213
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 1: You're always searching for the perfect four bars or the

1214
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: perfect eight bars to make your foundation. When you have

1215
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: a magical idea that's based on that, why didn't you

1216
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 1: make that the main course? Now, granted, the way the

1217
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: song is structured now Chef's kiss, I wouldn't change a

1218
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: thing like that coming at the end made it more magic.

1219
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: But at one point, were you trying to build the

1220
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: song just around that turnaround?

1221
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 2: No, I felt it was kind of an instrumental bridge.

1222
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 1: I did, so you knew that that's your your victory

1223
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 1: lap and you have to work backwards, right.

1224
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 2: And also from all my other song writing influences, you know,

1225
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 2: I had vers in Beatles. Hey, you know a BA

1226
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 2: B you know how to have a chorus and a

1227
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 2: verse and a chorus and stuff like that, and well

1228
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 2: that's ABC. Yeah, well well it is, well, got such

1229
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 2: a long way to go. It's sort of the chorus.

1230
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 2: But but no, like was sailing as an example, like

1231
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 2: I was sitting in my kitchen.

1232
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 1: Oh damn, see, I always thought that is the bridge.

1233
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 2: No, the chorus has got such a long way to go,

1234
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 2: that's the chorus and the bridge is that okay, you

1235
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 2: know what, it's.

1236
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 1: You know what.

1237
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 2: Quest it's semantics, man, whatever you call it. You're the boss,

1238
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 2: you know whatever. No to me, got such a long

1239
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 2: way to go? It's the chorus and then the bridge

1240
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 2: is about it.

1241
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: Up part Yeah, but then you return to the a

1242
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 1: part to say.

1243
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would go to another verse, but you know, ah.

1244
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 1: Damn, it's okay. So weird that we're seeing the song structure.

1245
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 2: In a word, pretty interesting. I kind of dig it.

1246
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: The roots like you right now, because the roots and

1247
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 1: I argue like this where we'll battle over where's the one?

1248
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: And of course it's my band, so I get you know,

1249
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 1: House Rulves. But God, now that you put that in

1250
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 1: my head because in my mind I tend to make

1251
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: these little short list or whatever, and in my mind

1252
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 1: I love right like the wind because I was like, wow,

1253
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: the song is so strong that even his bridge is

1254
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: stronger than the chorus, Like the chorus doesn't exist because

1255
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: his bridge just nails it. But you see that, Okay,

1256
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,479
Speaker 1: If that's the case, then or what would you called

1257
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 1: the song? Why'd you call it a long way to go?

1258
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 2: Well? Because I'm just a genius but.

1259
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 1: No, don't you love the nerve of me trying.

1260
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 2: To I think, Okay, check it out. I think it's interesting.

1261
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 2: I wish's call Mike Joll say okay, when run like

1262
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 2: the Wind, like, what do you think the chorus is?

1263
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 2: And I've never thought this is you bring something whole new.

1264
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 2: I think asking you're musician friends, like right like the wind,

1265
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 2: what's the chorus? And see what they say. I could

1266
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 2: be completely mistaken. I've been thinking about my whole career.

1267
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 1: Wow, this is always thought that the verses of the

1268
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 1: verse and then the first change in the first change

1269
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: in the song is a bridge that's going to lead

1270
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 1: us to a destination which is so all ride like

1271
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 1: the wind, right like the wind, which isn't It's.

1272
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 2: Kind of a reprieve. But I think and I got

1273
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 2: a long way to go, such a long big that's

1274
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 2: the chorus.

1275
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: Okay, I mean, let's v on this kid.

1276
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do I know? I only wrote the song, but.

1277
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you have this. But in my mind, no.

1278
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 2: I think you should. I think you should ask. I

1279
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 2: remember one of the great things that that mean was

1280
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 2: Jimmy Jaan Terry Lewis told me that they were in

1281
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 2: the car and right like the wind came on, they

1282
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 2: pulled over into a parking lot.

1283
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 1: Yo. They always whenever song comes over, they always pull over.

1284
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 2: And they were telling me they pulled up over the

1285
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 2: parking lot and turn it up really loud, and Jimmy

1286
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 2: Terry was saying, what the fuck is this? You know,

1287
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 2: because they said the whole thing with the strings and

1288
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 2: all that stuff, just as producers they were checking it out.

1289
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know, we know what seriously was

1290
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 2: sailing Like Joni Mitchell uses of modal tunings because she

1291
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 2: had polio as a child and all that, so I

1292
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 2: got all that from her, the tuning thing, so sailings

1293
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,439
Speaker 2: in a modal tuning. And when I wrote that song,

1294
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 2: and that's why this sort of mystical thing of the

1295
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 2: stuff gets beamed down, I don't completely disagree because I'm

1296
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 2: sitting around just when I started playing that data at

1297
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 2: a riff and out of the blue, I just sang

1298
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 2: the first verse and chorus just unsolicited. So then I

1299
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 2: had the verse, verse and the chorus. So then I

1300
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 2: started writing with a pen and paper, like it's not

1301
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 2: Farda Never never Land all that stuff. But I did

1302
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 2: not have any kind of a bridge. I had this

1303
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 2: versus and choruses for two years quest because it's in

1304
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 2: a modal it can get very linear and sort of stagnant,

1305
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 2: and so it took me about two years to come

1306
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: up with the bridge, the piano solo part, which changes

1307
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 2: keys and everything to lift it out of the modality

1308
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 2: of the modal tuning thing, because sometimes moddal tunings are

1309
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 2: kind of drone and all that. So, yeah, the whole

1310
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 2: process of this is pretty interesting because but the initial

1311
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 2: part of sailing, I got to say, I don't argue

1312
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 2: that I don't know where it came from, and I'm

1313
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 2: not one of those kind of guys. But it came

1314
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 2: out of nowhere. I just sang, it's not far down

1315
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 2: to Paradi at least it's not familiar.

1316
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 1: Win is right.

1317
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 2: Literally just unsolicited it August and then the chorus and

1318
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:12,919
Speaker 2: all without thinking about it.

1319
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 1: During this period. What are your weapons of choices? Because oftentimes,

1320
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 1: and I asked this a lot of songwriters, especially now

1321
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 1: with the iPhones, when I get an idea and I'm alone,

1322
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 1: I will baseline, okay, first guitar line, rhythm, guitar part,

1323
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 1: and then I'll return to it four days later. And

1324
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 1: it is all just gibberish, and I never how do

1325
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 1: you document when something hits you or do you just suffer?

1326
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 2: Well, when I got up, when I came up with

1327
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 2: the verse and chorus part, I got up off the linoleum,

1328
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 2: sure it was on, and just went, wow, that is

1329
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 2: that's something there that I got something. I'm wanted something

1330
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 2: here with this, And then I just kept playing and

1331
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 2: planet planet Now. Sometimes you know, I'll do a little chart,

1332
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 2: kind of write a little chart of the chords and

1333
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 2: stuff like that.

1334
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,480
Speaker 1: I forgot about that part again, you get actually no, we.

1335
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 2: Had no way to record and that kind of stuff

1336
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 2: and nothing like that. But no, you just play it

1337
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 2: repetitively to you. And of course I was sober at

1338
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 2: the moment, but usually with me if I was high

1339
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 2: or something and wrote a song that I thought it

1340
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 2: was brilliant. The next day when I wake up and

1341
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 2: listened to it, and I went, this is all you know,

1342
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 2: I think that happens to a lot of people.

1343
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: So not enough. It's made about you just having a

1344
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 1: world class voice and the beauty and the tone of

1345
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 1: your voice. The guitar solo in right like the wind.

1346
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 1: You did the.

1347
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 2: Honors I did yes.

1348
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 1: However, I mean, you had access to Graden Lucifer, like,

1349
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 1: you know, all the aces of that particular moment. What

1350
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 1: was the decision in having you nailing the guitar solo?

1351
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not really sure. Maybe o'martian said, hey,

1352
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:57,959
Speaker 2: you should play a solo on something, you know, because

1353
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 2: I was so enamored by Jay and Larrying all these people.

1354
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 2: I mean, with the second record with Steve Luke atther

1355
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 2: when he played some solos on stuff, and of course

1356
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 2: Eric Johnson was on the first record. A lot of

1357
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:10,720
Speaker 2: those guys encouraged me to kind of, you know, how

1358
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 2: you should play something. But I don't know. I think

1359
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 2: maybe Omartian said, hey, you should play a guitar solo

1360
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 2: on something. But I'm not really sure how that all

1361
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 2: went down, but I played it. But interestingly, you know,

1362
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 2: Biato just did a show about this is the greatest

1363
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 2: guitar solo you never heard, because it's kind of buried

1364
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:27,440
Speaker 2: in a wall of sound, but it sticks with you.

1365
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 2: But so he did a thing where he soloed it

1366
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 2: and then he did everything about it, and you know,

1367
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 2: I thought it was really nice, but I didn't think

1368
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 2: too much about it. But I was so enamored by

1369
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 2: you know, Eric Johnson who I grew up with, and

1370
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 2: all these guitar players that I just wanted them to

1371
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 2: do everything. You know. It was like they're so great.

1372
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 2: But I think encouragement. Larry may have said to me,

1373
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 2: hey man, you know you should play something, you know,

1374
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 2: So they were happy to do the session work. But

1375
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 2: they were all very supportive about me planned. But yeah,

1376
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 2: that's one of those that just and also it's probably

1377
01:06:55,960 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 2: the most suited to my style, you know. And uh

1378
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 2: and I told you my early influences for certainly Billy Gibbons,

1379
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 2: but you know Jeff Beck and Desuals.

1380
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 1: Now, I don't know if this is who who engineered

1381
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 1: the first album.

1382
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 2: I got named Chet Himes, great great engineer.

1383
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: What else didst Way?

1384
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 2: He didn't do much else. He he did that and

1385
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 2: kind of struggled with some substance stuff, and then he

1386
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 2: passed away. But he was he was nominated for a

1387
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 2: Grammy but he didn't win. But brilliant guy and did

1388
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 2: that first record and he did the second record, but

1389
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 2: then he passed away.

1390
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 1: And so yeah, you know McDonald's voice on your your

1391
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 1: records is such a specific I mean you know, there's

1392
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 1: not enough superlatives for what Michael McDonald brings to the

1393
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 1: table as far as like his harmonies and and but

1394
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 1: I'd always wanted to know, especially for his his very

1395
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: distinctive baritone, that is there some sort of consideration frequency

1396
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: wise wise or even chord wise because he is an instrument.

1397
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 1: I think he's an instrument more than he is a voice,

1398
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:13,720
Speaker 1: and so is there any consideration to make space for

1399
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: him to shine through? Like okay, well let's not use

1400
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 1: this particular patch of keyboard or oftentimes if I work

1401
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 1: on a song, especially with singers that are heavy into

1402
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 1: harmony one, I have to sacrifice myself. There's certain records

1403
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: in which the rhythm is there, but I'm not fully

1404
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 1: playing drums.

1405
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 2: Like oh, Charlie whilst leaving off the high you.

1406
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 1: See where I'm going. Like at the time, did you

1407
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 1: know that McDonald was going to kind of paint all

1408
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 1: over your walls as you're tracking the rhythm section or

1409
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:48,480
Speaker 1: was that just an.

1410
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd like to take credit, but I do. I mean,

1411
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:52,680
Speaker 2: like in the documentary, Yeah Rock document there's a thing

1412
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 2: where Gary and Gary said Donald. Fagan said of McDonald,

1413
01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 2: he sounds like a Herd of Camel's you know he

1414
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 2: does well. So what happened was we were cutting. We

1415
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 2: were in the studio cutting the first record, and Michael

1416
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 2: was kind of taking the streets next door. It's studio. Hey,

1417
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:10,520
Speaker 2: we were in the studio at Warners. So Marty and

1418
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:12,839
Speaker 2: Martin went over and said, hey, you know, I'm producing

1419
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:14,839
Speaker 2: this kid from Texas. She's coming to check it out.

1420
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 2: And Michael and Bonald came over and listened to what

1421
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 2: we were doing, and we're actually doing a really song. Really,

1422
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 2: I don't know anymore, and McDonald said, wow, man. Michael

1423
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 2: said the funniest thing. He said, you know, man, uh,

1424
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 2: you know this experience you have when you come to

1425
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 2: somebody else's session and you think, why doesn't our session

1426
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:32,760
Speaker 2: sound this good?

1427
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,639
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, when you're on someone else's things like.

1428
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 2: This sounds amazing. So that he said, if you need

1429
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 2: any background votos to let me know. So we stuck

1430
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 2: on Mike and his face and he sang on that.

1431
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 2: Then we got around doing rod like the Wind. We

1432
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 2: had such a long way to go and we were

1433
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 2: singing it, and of course then we realized, wow, there's

1434
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 2: only one cat to do this. So and then as

1435
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 2: the year's gone on. He sang on so many things,

1436
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 2: but I don't know that we really made a thing.

1437
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 2: But at the end of ride like the wind, the

1438
01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 2: complaint with a lot of people in my guitar sols baried.

1439
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 2: He more not feel spectr but kind of a wall

1440
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 2: of sound. You got the strings, you got Mike's voice,

1441
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,760
Speaker 2: you got all this stuff happening. And it's funny because

1442
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 2: people say to me, you and Mike sound so good together,

1443
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 2: and I'm like, what are you talking about. We're completely different,

1444
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 2: you know, in our style and everything we do. I

1445
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 2: love him to know these incredible as no one like him,

1446
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,719
Speaker 2: but you know, he comes from a completely different place

1447
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 2: than I do, and our voices are really really different.

1448
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:24,800
Speaker 2: But maybe that's the charm in it. But either way, yeah,

1449
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 2: I don't recall this in terms of mixing, but you

1450
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 2: know what mixing was. I'm not great at that. My

1451
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 2: contributions would be like, call me when you're pretty close

1452
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:34,800
Speaker 2: and I'll come in and tell you what I think.

1453
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:36,719
Speaker 2: You know, sorry, bring this up. Bring that. I don't

1454
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 2: have the patience to sit there and like.

1455
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 1: Mass oh, so you're not a micromanager in well.

1456
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 2: And it's funny because steely, you know Donald is, but

1457
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 2: I guess, but no, I'm more like, okay, we cut

1458
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 2: the record, you know, get it to a place where

1459
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:49,840
Speaker 2: you can play it for me, and then I'll I'll

1460
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 2: tell you had a snared up shool loud or I

1461
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 2: have good I have good instincts, I think with the

1462
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 2: overall soundscape, but I'm not big on sitting there going

1463
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 2: you know, let's listen to the Snares.

1464
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:02,600
Speaker 1: Maxing is my heaven, like well, because I love to

1465
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 1: hear when a song. Do you get demo? Okay? Well,

1466
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,559
Speaker 1: all right, I'm so excited about everything you said. I'm

1467
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 1: like losing my composer here in terms of being professional,

1468
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 1: do you get demo itis? In terms of if you

1469
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 1: live with a rough mix too long when it's perfected

1470
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:29,599
Speaker 1: in cleaner and everything, do you still like find yourself like, ah,

1471
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:33,080
Speaker 1: the demo was where we captured the magic or or

1472
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 1: are you willing to now accept the new finalized?

1473
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:41,639
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I only want to improve. I mean when

1474
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 2: we brought in the original demos, the eight songs of

1475
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 2: what I've gave to warners, you know, we had the

1476
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 2: demos and that's what they signed me off of. But

1477
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:50,679
Speaker 2: when we started going to the studio, in a real

1478
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,600
Speaker 2: studio with all the stuff and Amartian. I was not

1479
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:57,000
Speaker 2: resistant at all to like, you know, wanting things to

1480
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 2: get you know, more polished and better what Marchael brought

1481
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:02,200
Speaker 2: to and the whole thing, because you know, I mean

1482
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 2: the demos. I did my best. There were twenty four

1483
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:06,599
Speaker 2: track demos, but you know, I've learned so much from

1484
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 2: Omarty and doing the four records I did with him.

1485
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 2: But you know, I produced those demos myself, so there

1486
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 2: was plenty of room for improvement. But no, I don't

1487
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:16,360
Speaker 2: have a lot of demo itis. I think that I've

1488
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:17,840
Speaker 2: heard of that. I know what it could be like.

1489
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:22,719
Speaker 2: But you know, I again, you know I heard Larry

1490
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:26,799
Speaker 2: Carlton told me that he was emptying for Donald canbut

1491
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 2: steal it in But Donald would send him recordings of

1492
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 2: him playing suitcase piano on a little bit he recorded

1493
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:34,960
Speaker 2: with a little black mic on a cassette and send

1494
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:36,799
Speaker 2: them to Larry to do the takedowns for the sessions.

1495
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 2: And I'm like, where are those cassettes? And Larry said,

1496
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:42,599
Speaker 2: I don't know, there's somewhere. I said, We'll go and

1497
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 2: get them. Yeah, I was like, and then I found

1498
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 2: out later from his son Travis that they burned in

1499
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 2: a fire. But can you imagine Donald thing, I'm playing

1500
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:52,599
Speaker 2: Babylon's Sisters by himself at a piano with the little mike,

1501
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:55,080
Speaker 2: you know, try it's priceless, but so no, I always

1502
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 2: wanted things to get slicker and slicker, you know.

1503
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 1: Okay, So, because it's so flawless, is there a mistake

1504
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:07,880
Speaker 1: or something that's wrong on the record that only you

1505
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 1: know about that we don't know about that you hear

1506
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 1: it every time, like is there half a second of

1507
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 1: a wrong chord or something like?

1508
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:17,679
Speaker 2: No, they're pretty perfect.

1509
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:19,120
Speaker 1: I think, okay, no, But.

1510
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:20,880
Speaker 2: You know what, when I did the thing about the

1511
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:22,680
Speaker 2: sailing someone with them, Marty and I brought up to

1512
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:23,639
Speaker 2: Steely Dan reference.

1513
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 1: Uh huh.

1514
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:26,759
Speaker 2: He said, look, there are mistakes on Steely Dan records.

1515
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:28,599
Speaker 2: You just don't hear them, just like all the early

1516
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:31,120
Speaker 2: the Beatles stuff that we've heard, you know, with Paul's

1517
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 2: voice cracking. And I remember, I think I asked on

1518
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 2: it once about it and Donald said, yeah, like Walter

1519
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:37,439
Speaker 2: and I can't even listen to Katie Lyed because it

1520
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:39,640
Speaker 2: was mixed on some weird speakers that we hate and

1521
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:42,080
Speaker 2: kimb really Stanton, I saw you talking abou katy lyes

1522
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:44,720
Speaker 2: like unbelievable, and he said, no, they don't like it.

1523
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:46,400
Speaker 2: They don't like the sound of it. That's what Donald me.

1524
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 2: That's what I remember the Donald or Gary telling me.

1525
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:52,240
Speaker 2: But no, I don't know anything that really really sticks out.

1526
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 2: I mean, I tried, We worked very hard, and I

1527
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 2: don't have any musical regrets, you know, with the stuff

1528
01:13:58,120 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 2: that I did.

1529
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,759
Speaker 1: So I know that the digital thirty two track machine,

1530
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 1: I forget the the.

1531
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 2: Well, there was the Sony one and then you know.

1532
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 1: Right Misbashi, So I know that well, Okay, so I

1533
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 1: know that Stevie Wonder caught a lot of hell for

1534
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 1: kind of the flatness of the Journey through the Secret

1535
01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 1: Life of Plants album. I believe he was like one

1536
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 1: of the first guinea Pigs to record on that digital technology.

1537
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:30,680
Speaker 1: Your album was recorded on the same board, was it not?

1538
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 2: Well, the first album's recorded on a Harrison, which is

1539
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 2: not particularly a great board, but it was what they

1540
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:38,200
Speaker 2: had at the time. It was steady the out at

1541
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:40,559
Speaker 2: the time. But I was the first album was right,

1542
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 2: no analog two tracks, okay. The second album we used

1543
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 2: one analog machine and one digital machine the three M

1544
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 2: digital machine. The first album was all analog.

1545
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:52,960
Speaker 1: At the time. Could you tell like a difference or

1546
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:56,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure we all sold like perfect sound

1547
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 1: and da da da da da.

1548
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 2: But we cut the basic tracks on the twenty four

1549
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 2: track analog machine. Just have liked sound of the drums

1550
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:06,920
Speaker 2: and everything. I mean, I think analog superior is about

1551
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 2: especially for drums and based things. There's a warmth there.

1552
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:12,280
Speaker 2: But then we got used the digital machine. I did

1553
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:14,599
Speaker 2: like the fact that you could, even early on with

1554
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 2: those machines, you could drop in twenty seconds of something,

1555
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:19,240
Speaker 2: you know, so that you know, I used to stand

1556
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:21,639
Speaker 2: that there for hours singing parts. If I was flat,

1557
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 2: I had to sing it again and all that, so

1558
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 2: you know, you got into the comping thing. So that

1559
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 2: was why people liked it a lot. But no, I

1560
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:30,240
Speaker 2: still think analog over I don't know what they said.

1561
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 2: I think analog is superior as far as a great

1562
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 2: analog machine. In fact, Eric Johnson cuts his basic tracks

1563
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:39,719
Speaker 2: on two inch sixteen so it's a two inch machine,

1564
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:43,480
Speaker 2: but it's a sixteen track head, so the gaps are wider. Oh,

1565
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 2: and then he saves that tape and sets it aside,

1566
01:15:46,439 --> 01:15:48,280
Speaker 2: and then when they mix he brings it out again.

1567
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 1: I never thought of that.

1568
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:52,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's that to get the real meat.

1569
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm learning a lot of here. Now you're

1570
01:15:56,479 --> 01:15:58,800
Speaker 1: telling me that this is a make especially the record.

1571
01:15:58,960 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 1: Let's start up Lovie.

1572
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 2: Before you were born, you know, this stuff was happening,

1573
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:06,080
Speaker 2: but no, analog is amazing. But certainly the convenience of

1574
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 2: digital with all this stuff. I mean, there was a

1575
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 2: thing Elliott I forget his name now, he built this

1576
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:17,760
Speaker 2: comping machine this before you're born. Probably you put in

1577
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 2: trs from the console. You put in seven tracks of

1578
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,880
Speaker 2: vocal come in from the board, tracks of vocal, and

1579
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:27,679
Speaker 2: you could pick A and B track and you could

1580
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 2: slide this fader over. It was a really expensive machine.

1581
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 2: You could slide it over to do a comp so

1582
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:35,760
Speaker 2: fast really that it was a manual comp And I'm

1583
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:37,799
Speaker 2: already and used it a lot. Yeah, it was pretty amazing.

1584
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:41,160
Speaker 2: Seven vocal tracks come in, he says, okay, I want

1585
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:43,920
Speaker 2: these two words from this track onto this track here,

1586
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:46,160
Speaker 2: and then right at that point he slides the fader

1587
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 2: over and it slides track seven to five. That kind

1588
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 2: of thing, and people use that quite a bit before

1589
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 2: all the protool shit. Yeah, now it's just so much

1590
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:57,600
Speaker 2: about convenience and the even I just thought commercial was

1591
01:16:57,680 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 2: shack where they're doing.

1592
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's just hitting me right now. Your album

1593
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 1: comes out, I mean really in the dawn of the eighties,

1594
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:28,439
Speaker 1: and I remember, Okay, so I specifically remember where I

1595
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 1: was when I first heard you. My dad was buying

1596
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:35,320
Speaker 1: a brand new stereo system, you know, he was like

1597
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 1: a gearhead and whatnot. So your album was used as

1598
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 1: the demonstration record to show us what speakers. However, another

1599
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:51,800
Speaker 1: piece of technology that gets invented kind of the same

1600
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:54,880
Speaker 1: year that your album coming out is the Walkman, right,

1601
01:17:55,920 --> 01:18:03,880
Speaker 1: So for such a perfect sounding that's made for stere Yeah,

1602
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:08,200
Speaker 1: was there concerns that now? Because even now when I create,

1603
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:12,800
Speaker 1: most of us get our like we now judge it

1604
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:17,080
Speaker 1: based on playing it on our laptop or listening on

1605
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 1: the phone or whatever. It's no, it's not. I haven't

1606
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:23,320
Speaker 1: heard music on loudspeakers in a second in the age

1607
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:26,200
Speaker 1: of Walkman. Where was that concerning that?

1608
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 2: Very much? So it was not welcome at all. In fact,

1609
01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:32,639
Speaker 2: it just evolved from there in my opinion, And of course,

1610
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 2: like Neil Young came out with this thing called the Ponos.

1611
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:38,880
Speaker 2: I still have my pon Yeah, that Neil brought out

1612
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:42,439
Speaker 2: and trying to somehow rectify the situation. But no, it

1613
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 2: just devolved from the still trying to fix it. Well,

1614
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 2: I mean Neil brought it out trying to fix No.

1615
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:49,600
Speaker 2: He Neil brought the Ponos out, and I remember he

1616
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:52,479
Speaker 2: took it tomorrow Austin and showed him trying to fix

1617
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:54,880
Speaker 2: this problem with the degradation of the quality of the

1618
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 2: MP three and all that stuff.

1619
01:18:56,160 --> 01:18:58,560
Speaker 1: Wait, you're saying that he has been working on the

1620
01:18:58,640 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 1: ponos for the longest time.

1621
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:01,960
Speaker 2: Well, no, this is a long time ago. I'm saying

1622
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:03,560
Speaker 2: when all this stuff came out and there was this

1623
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:07,480
Speaker 2: degradation with them compression and all that stuff and compromises,

1624
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:11,360
Speaker 2: and you know, Neil brought out this Ponos thing, the

1625
01:19:11,439 --> 01:19:12,799
Speaker 2: thing like this, and he brought it to my Austin

1626
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:15,400
Speaker 2: showed it to him because it was like really high

1627
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:17,160
Speaker 2: five and it was twenty four bit or whatever. It

1628
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:18,840
Speaker 2: was just a lot better. Now thinks are getting much

1629
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:20,719
Speaker 2: much better. We got ninety six K and all that stuff.

1630
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:23,640
Speaker 2: But no, that was a drag to have to listen to.

1631
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:29,840
Speaker 2: In fact, my second record Another page was this first

1632
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 2: record on Warner Brothers on cassette, and you know, cassette

1633
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 2: sound like shit. I mean the tape is like that

1634
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:37,560
Speaker 2: big you know.

1635
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:41,640
Speaker 1: Wait, I didn't. I didn't realize that.

1636
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, just on Warner Brothers. Another page, the second

1637
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:47,920
Speaker 2: record they added Arthur to it on the cassette only,

1638
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 2: and so you could get to buy the cassette.

1639
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:51,880
Speaker 1: So I was going to ask you how come you

1640
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 1: didn't put Arthur on the second record.

1641
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:59,760
Speaker 2: Because there was a lot of contractual shit with doing

1642
01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 2: our Arthur. It wasn't on Warners or whatever the case,

1643
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:05,080
Speaker 2: but Warners ended up they put it on the cassette

1644
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:09,800
Speaker 2: to drive people to buy cassettes so you can bought

1645
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:11,680
Speaker 2: another page vinyl. It wasn't on there, but if you have,

1646
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:15,920
Speaker 2: that's marketing. But to me, when you put on the album,

1647
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:17,680
Speaker 2: you know and listen to it, it's made. But then

1648
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:18,880
Speaker 2: the cassette is disappointing.

1649
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:22,080
Speaker 1: You know, I've read that, And I don't know if

1650
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:25,559
Speaker 1: this came from you opening for Zeppelin. You brought something

1651
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 1: from Jimmy Page. What is it that you?

1652
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 2: Oh, Jimmy. Jimmy was playing these high wad amplifiers from

1653
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:34,640
Speaker 2: England that this got Dave Reid Mason's garage and the

1654
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 2: only people that I'd seen in magazines were he in Townsend.

1655
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:39,519
Speaker 2: So I was on the road. I was on the

1656
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 2: couple shows with him, and I was hanging out and

1657
01:20:41,360 --> 01:20:45,160
Speaker 2: you got to realize, first tour in the States, there

1658
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:47,240
Speaker 2: wasn't all this security. They weren't huge like they got.

1659
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:49,479
Speaker 2: So we all shared the same dressing room. It was

1660
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 2: kind of like access and Jimmy was very, very nice,

1661
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:55,160
Speaker 2: and so you know, I asked him about these amplifiers.

1662
01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:56,680
Speaker 2: I said, wow, these are so cool. I've seen him

1663
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:58,479
Speaker 2: in magazines, but we don't have them here and he said, well,

1664
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:00,479
Speaker 2: just Pete and I have them. But he said, if

1665
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:02,680
Speaker 2: you want one, give my guy some money. We'll have

1666
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:04,680
Speaker 2: Dave build you one, send you one, and again him

1667
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:06,679
Speaker 2: seven hundred bucks. I was like nineteen, and my friend said,

1668
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:09,599
Speaker 2: you'll never see anything. But two months later by boat

1669
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 2: here comes this cabinet and head and I had a

1670
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:14,519
Speaker 2: high want that Jimmy Page.

1671
01:21:14,479 --> 01:21:17,559
Speaker 1: So prime Jimmy Page sold you a camp.

1672
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:20,000
Speaker 2: Well, he had one made for me in England and

1673
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 2: had it and then shipped to me in San Antonio.

1674
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:26,000
Speaker 2: But what's cool about I was the Coolescon Santina because

1675
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:27,479
Speaker 2: on a high watt. But also I got from.

1676
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:29,640
Speaker 1: Jimmy page where is it now?

1677
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 2: I have no idea. Come on, man, sad to say serious,

1678
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:34,400
Speaker 2: I probably sold it for drugs.

1679
01:21:34,439 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're not sitting in an like that with

1680
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:38,360
Speaker 1: any of your not here.

1681
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 2: I'm always been wrong.

1682
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 1: Where are your Grammys right now?

1683
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:43,000
Speaker 2: Well, they're at my place to stop playing?

1684
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:45,080
Speaker 1: Where in New York and my Okay?

1685
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 2: But you know what's interesting is I saw Jimmy. The

1686
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:51,320
Speaker 2: Beach Boys did two big concerts in Philly and Russian DC,

1687
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:55,479
Speaker 2: and Jimmy was on the show Solo planned some blues

1688
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:58,439
Speaker 2: and stuff on the show. This is like fourth of July.

1689
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:03,840
Speaker 2: Carl's still alive. Okay, But anyway, I went back to

1690
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:06,400
Speaker 2: say a lot to Jimmy because you know, I was then.

1691
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:08,160
Speaker 2: I was Christopher Cross, you know. So I went back

1692
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:10,960
Speaker 2: so alone. He was very very gracious again, but I

1693
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 2: told him the story, and Jimmy said, you know, man,

1694
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:16,240
Speaker 2: I don't remember anything about this, but he said, but

1695
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 2: I got to tell you. I love the story. It

1696
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:19,680
Speaker 2: is such a touching thing. I remember it. I've never

1697
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:21,720
Speaker 2: seen Jimmy since, but I said, he said, I love

1698
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:24,599
Speaker 2: the story. I said, really, and he said yeah, because

1699
01:22:25,120 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 2: it sounds like I was nice to you. And I said,

1700
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:28,960
Speaker 2: oh man, I was like a puppy dog at your feet.

1701
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:31,040
Speaker 2: Can I have your pick or whatever? He said, it

1702
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:32,760
Speaker 2: sounds like I was nice to you. And I said,

1703
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:35,280
Speaker 2: you were so nice you can't imagine, he said, And

1704
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 2: Jimmy said, you know what.

1705
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:39,639
Speaker 1: Legend terry people love when the boomerang comes back.

1706
01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:42,880
Speaker 2: He said, I like this story because he said, I've

1707
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:47,040
Speaker 2: not always been the nicest guy. That was just like

1708
01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:52,200
Speaker 2: heavy man, meaning like we got huge, and there were

1709
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:55,920
Speaker 2: moments when I probably wasn't that nice, and so the

1710
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:58,400
Speaker 2: fact that I was nice to this young kid got

1711
01:22:58,479 --> 01:23:01,519
Speaker 2: you this amplifier. I mean, remember but and I thought

1712
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:03,120
Speaker 2: that was I don't know Jimmy at all, but I

1713
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 2: thought that was very touching that he said that, because

1714
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:07,760
Speaker 2: you know he was he was so patient and nice.

1715
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:11,320
Speaker 2: Churse they weren't huge then. In fact, after the first night,

1716
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 2: we were in the dressing and beyond the second show

1717
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:16,040
Speaker 2: and Jimmy said, how do you kids? He and Plant said,

1718
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 2: how do you kids follow us around? Or your parents

1719
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 2: are rich or something? And I said, well, no, we're

1720
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:23,519
Speaker 2: opening the show. And he said really, So we weren't

1721
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:25,639
Speaker 2: very good. But the next night we're playing our set.

1722
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:27,599
Speaker 2: Thirty minutes, I look on the side of the stage

1723
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:30,120
Speaker 2: and there's Jimmy and Robert standing there, Robert and his

1724
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:33,600
Speaker 2: classic Swayed vest. And they didn't stay very long, but

1725
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:36,280
Speaker 2: they said, yeah, but it was crazy. It was fantastic

1726
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:39,160
Speaker 2: opportunities to and so that's where the Ginger Breaker story.

1727
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:44,160
Speaker 2: Same thing, this same promoter, Joe Miller, put me on

1728
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:45,760
Speaker 2: a bunch of different I used to work for Joe

1729
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:48,160
Speaker 2: as a production assistant, doing anything I could do just

1730
01:23:48,240 --> 01:23:51,080
Speaker 2: to learn about the business. And my job that night

1731
01:23:51,120 --> 01:23:54,519
Speaker 2: when Blind Faith came through town was to gingerhead ulcers.

1732
01:23:55,479 --> 01:23:58,200
Speaker 2: So my job I got a big silver bucket with ice,

1733
01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 2: and my job was to get quarts of milk, which

1734
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 2: I'd have the spout open, and I crouched down behind

1735
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 2: Ginger's kit silver double bass drums. And remember I was

1736
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:10,800
Speaker 2: a drummer, So I crouched behind back there and my

1737
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:13,680
Speaker 2: job was to Ginger would reach down, I'd hand him

1738
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:15,960
Speaker 2: a quarter of milk. He would chug it and then

1739
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:19,720
Speaker 2: just throw the carton, you know. So by the end

1740
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:24,840
Speaker 2: of the night, and it was amazing quest watching him double.

1741
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:27,240
Speaker 2: You know he was technically you know, it was amazing

1742
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:29,760
Speaker 2: and watching him. By the end of the night, I'm

1743
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 2: sitting there and I'm covered with milk and Ginger and

1744
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:38,800
Speaker 2: and Ginger gets up and doesn't say one word to me.

1745
01:24:39,160 --> 01:24:42,200
Speaker 2: He doesn't say thanks, thanks a lot, kid, nothing, just

1746
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:47,679
Speaker 2: like couldn't couldn't, couldn't be bothered to say, hey, thanks

1747
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:48,000
Speaker 2: a lot.

1748
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:54,719
Speaker 1: You know, this is the promo, this is the cliff

1749
01:24:58,160 --> 01:24:59,160
Speaker 1: where what is now?

1750
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:04,519
Speaker 2: So that that was my only interaction with Ginger Baker,

1751
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:06,920
Speaker 2: But I got to tell you it was staggeringly cool

1752
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:09,720
Speaker 2: just to be that close to him and watching him play.

1753
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:12,160
Speaker 1: When I when I saw that you did it. My

1754
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:16,160
Speaker 1: my my question, d was how did you survive Ginger Baker? Okay,

1755
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:17,599
Speaker 1: that's that's the nicest.

1756
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 2: Now he would just and he'd just throw the cord

1757
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 2: and it hit me. Yeah. And I had the silver

1758
01:25:24,040 --> 01:25:26,000
Speaker 2: bucket with all the eyes from the coats and milk,

1759
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 2: and they said, now, kid, be sure that you opened

1760
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:31,920
Speaker 2: the spout so it's ready. And when Ginger grabs it,

1761
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:33,880
Speaker 2: I go and he can just chug it. You know,

1762
01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:37,519
Speaker 2: I guess it's south is Ulcer. But so later on,

1763
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:39,040
Speaker 2: as the years went on and I heard all these

1764
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:42,920
Speaker 2: stories about mister Baker that I realized, well, that seems

1765
01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:44,960
Speaker 2: to be kind of and of course I did. I

1766
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:47,280
Speaker 2: did get to know Jack Bruce quite well and did

1767
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:49,960
Speaker 2: stuff with Jack. And I was telling Jack then he said, well, man,

1768
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:51,040
Speaker 2: that's you know, that's ginger.

1769
01:25:51,479 --> 01:25:54,320
Speaker 1: Did you appreciate how close you were to the fire.

1770
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:57,240
Speaker 2: Or oh yeah, I mean again, man, you know, like

1771
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:00,479
Speaker 2: you know better than anybody, like at a Beyond say show,

1772
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:03,600
Speaker 2: you wouldn't get anywhere near her are out or you know,

1773
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:05,760
Speaker 2: but no, in those days, it was more relaxed, like

1774
01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 2: it wasn't big security.

1775
01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 1: No.

1776
01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:12,160
Speaker 2: I'd come out Peter Grant like no, and well for

1777
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:14,680
Speaker 2: blind Faith, like I would come out during the day

1778
01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 2: and sit on a case and Eric would come out

1779
01:26:17,080 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 2: with his red through thirty five and his martial stacks

1780
01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:20,680
Speaker 2: like in the cream days. He was still there and

1781
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:22,680
Speaker 2: he would just play for like thirty minutes in the

1782
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:25,720
Speaker 2: hall by himself, and I was just sitting there watching that.

1783
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:28,200
Speaker 2: And it was life changing. I mean, to be around

1784
01:26:28,280 --> 01:26:30,760
Speaker 2: that stuff. Nowadays you wouldn't get near them, but in

1785
01:26:30,840 --> 01:26:33,519
Speaker 2: those days it was it was different. Question. It was

1786
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:35,920
Speaker 2: just like all the security stuff that we have now,

1787
01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:37,920
Speaker 2: it's just it's all blown up. It's kind of like

1788
01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:40,160
Speaker 2: you said earlier about the sound systems. I mean, it

1789
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 2: was just different then. They weren't huge, huge stars like

1790
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:44,719
Speaker 2: they are now.

1791
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:48,760
Speaker 1: You know. Okay, So you know, I would imagine one

1792
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:53,479
Speaker 1: of the burdens of coming out so strong is that,

1793
01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:56,000
Speaker 1: you know, there's a portion of the audience that's just

1794
01:26:56,160 --> 01:27:00,880
Speaker 1: attached to that particular work or not. And don't say

1795
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:07,960
Speaker 1: all of them, but what projects are near and dear,

1796
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:11,479
Speaker 1: like close to you that you felt were overlooked that

1797
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:12,800
Speaker 1: we should pay attention to.

1798
01:27:14,479 --> 01:27:18,080
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you know, it's like when you have kids,

1799
01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:19,800
Speaker 2: you know, the little ones are always the kind of

1800
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:21,640
Speaker 2: the most precious and all that. So as much as

1801
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:23,600
Speaker 2: I'm so proud of the first work I did, I

1802
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:27,000
Speaker 2: made twelve records over the years, and the later ones,

1803
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:29,600
Speaker 2: like Secret Ladder and Doctor Faith, they're kind of in

1804
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:35,360
Speaker 2: this later area. Those two are just I think, really

1805
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:37,840
Speaker 2: really and Doctor Faith in particular is no keyboards on

1806
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:39,840
Speaker 2: the work. It's all guitarist textures and stuff. So I

1807
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:43,120
Speaker 2: think Doctor Faith's Secret Ladder or two I'm extremely proud of.

1808
01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:46,880
Speaker 2: I think the songwriting holds up, you know, trying not

1809
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:49,080
Speaker 2: to look the record have any Cereal on it, every record,

1810
01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 2: So those two I think are are worth a listen,

1811
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:54,240
Speaker 2: but you know, and they're fans that know them, but

1812
01:27:54,400 --> 01:27:56,800
Speaker 2: they didn't sell, I mean collectively the next ten records

1813
01:27:56,840 --> 01:28:00,759
Speaker 2: after my first two, you know, sol or anything compared

1814
01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:04,000
Speaker 2: to the first two, you know. So, but I've always

1815
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:05,519
Speaker 2: done what I love to do, and I did it

1816
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 2: from my heart, and so I'm not really doing any

1817
01:28:08,120 --> 01:28:10,920
Speaker 2: new work at the moment, but super proud of all

1818
01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:12,640
Speaker 2: that work. And we do play those songs in the

1819
01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:14,759
Speaker 2: show because I insist on at least trying to expose

1820
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 2: the audience to some of these later tunes. And and

1821
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:20,800
Speaker 2: I'll enevitbly gets some social media to say, hey, why

1822
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:22,760
Speaker 2: didn't you play Hunger or one of these obscure tunes.

1823
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:25,640
Speaker 2: I said, well, you know, no one really cares, you know,

1824
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:27,760
Speaker 2: but people do care. But so it's it's a hard

1825
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:30,320
Speaker 2: balance because I think two thirds of the audience comes

1826
01:28:30,400 --> 01:28:32,400
Speaker 2: for Arthur Sailing, right, like the win those songs.

1827
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:37,679
Speaker 1: You know, So of those twelve records, what's the most creative,

1828
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:40,519
Speaker 1: rebellious thing that you've done that I'm not aware of?

1829
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:44,320
Speaker 2: Interesting? You know about Secret Ladder, It's it's it's a

1830
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:48,719
Speaker 2: it's a thing where it's got a guitar, acoustic guitar,

1831
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:51,640
Speaker 2: and people are climbing out of the soundhole, up the

1832
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:54,360
Speaker 2: frets to heaven, you know, to the clouds. And Jimmy,

1833
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:57,240
Speaker 2: when I was on the show with you, Jimmy wanted

1834
01:28:57,479 --> 01:28:59,960
Speaker 2: an album to show and I said, well, we only

1835
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:01,640
Speaker 2: put it on CD. When have an emma, Jimmy had

1836
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:04,080
Speaker 2: one made up and he showed it, you know, And

1837
01:29:04,240 --> 01:29:06,240
Speaker 2: then Jimmy said to me when I was standing out there,

1838
01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:08,439
Speaker 2: he said, this is like the coolest idea, Like who

1839
01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:10,840
Speaker 2: get you know? This is cool with the guitar because

1840
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:14,400
Speaker 2: he plays guitar. But anyway, I digress. What did you

1841
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:15,400
Speaker 2: ask me? Oh?

1842
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:20,360
Speaker 1: No, I just have you ever done anything? Oh rebellious creatively? Well,

1843
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:23,639
Speaker 1: there's a song on your rap record with the Dust,

1844
01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:25,000
Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm playing.

1845
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:29,519
Speaker 2: There's a song on album called Every Turn of the

1846
01:29:29,560 --> 01:29:33,639
Speaker 2: World's my third record, and a song called Charm the Snake,

1847
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:37,000
Speaker 2: and it's pretty aggressive, and I think it kind of

1848
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:40,200
Speaker 2: hurt me at radio because radio just couldn't couldn't play it.

1849
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:42,360
Speaker 2: It was just too rock for them, you know. But

1850
01:29:43,200 --> 01:29:46,720
Speaker 2: it's and actually I think Hinley at one point told

1851
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:48,439
Speaker 2: me like one of the favorite things I've done because

1852
01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:50,080
Speaker 2: it was kind of like Sunset grill or something. You know,

1853
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:53,439
Speaker 2: it's pretty aggressive, but and I used this weird instrument

1854
01:29:53,479 --> 01:29:56,200
Speaker 2: called the synthax and stuff. But anyway, that's kind of

1855
01:29:56,280 --> 01:29:58,240
Speaker 2: an outside track for me. But by that time I

1856
01:29:58,360 --> 01:30:01,800
Speaker 2: was cemented as the ballot a deer and and radio

1857
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:04,519
Speaker 2: just couldn't handle it playing. You know, I wasn't going

1858
01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:06,559
Speaker 2: to get played on album radio and it was too

1859
01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:08,599
Speaker 2: aggressive for pop radio, and I kind of just fell

1860
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:10,639
Speaker 2: down the middle. But that's probably the tune that's probably

1861
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:11,240
Speaker 2: the most.

1862
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 1: You know, what's the best advice that you were given?

1863
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:20,720
Speaker 1: And subsequently, what's the advice that you are glad that

1864
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:21,439
Speaker 1: you ignored?

1865
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:26,679
Speaker 2: You know, I think I think McDonald at one point said,

1866
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:29,040
Speaker 2: you know, bad or good like the out rock thing.

1867
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:30,720
Speaker 2: Mike said, you know, bad are good. When people are

1868
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:33,200
Speaker 2: talking about you, they're you know, mentioning you, that's a

1869
01:30:33,200 --> 01:30:33,519
Speaker 2: good thing.

1870
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:33,680
Speaker 1: You know.

1871
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:36,599
Speaker 2: It's like, I'm glad to be humiliated or whatever it takes.

1872
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:39,880
Speaker 2: It takes, you know, but uh yeah, you know, I

1873
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,559
Speaker 2: think it's it's uh far as what to tell people.

1874
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:45,040
Speaker 2: I mean, send your tape to the wrong.

1875
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:48,760
Speaker 1: Guy, you know, Oh, that's one.

1876
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:51,519
Speaker 2: I mean, it's our business. As you know, it's it's

1877
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:54,759
Speaker 2: so tough. There's so few people. I thank the audience

1878
01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:56,479
Speaker 2: every not for their support, because I said, there's so

1879
01:30:56,520 --> 01:30:58,360
Speaker 2: many musicians that I know and don't know who never

1880
01:30:58,400 --> 01:30:59,920
Speaker 2: had this opportunity to sit up here and play the

1881
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:02,519
Speaker 2: music for people, you know. And so I think people

1882
01:31:02,600 --> 01:31:04,840
Speaker 2: like Carl Wilson and Brian and people like this that

1883
01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:08,680
Speaker 2: I got to meet, who you know, just recognized me

1884
01:31:08,880 --> 01:31:11,400
Speaker 2: and you know, as an artist and all that kind

1885
01:31:11,400 --> 01:31:15,000
Speaker 2: of thing, even like Paul, you know, like McCarty apparently

1886
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:17,200
Speaker 2: you know, there's a book where John Lennon, I guess,

1887
01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:18,960
Speaker 2: talks about sailing and he was a big fan and

1888
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:20,280
Speaker 2: all this stuff, and I never got to be John.

1889
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:22,599
Speaker 2: But I asked Paul about and Paul said, well, I don't,

1890
01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:26,519
Speaker 2: I don't know per se you know that about that

1891
01:31:26,680 --> 01:31:28,759
Speaker 2: particular thing. But I know that we all had your record,

1892
01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:31,840
Speaker 2: and I'm like, now, wait a minute, you all had

1893
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:33,959
Speaker 2: my record. He goes, well, everybody had your record.

1894
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:36,759
Speaker 1: And you do know that everyone had your record.

1895
01:31:36,600 --> 01:31:38,679
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, wait a minute, you're the Beatles.

1896
01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:42,360
Speaker 2: You have so you know those kinds of moments where

1897
01:31:42,760 --> 01:31:46,360
Speaker 2: John Lennon. You know, those are the things that validate

1898
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:50,160
Speaker 2: you to where like I told Johnny Mitchell once, I said,

1899
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:52,320
Speaker 2: I I told her I want to write down everything

1900
01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 2: you say. But I said, you know, I hope I

1901
01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:58,000
Speaker 2: wish my music could mean as much to someone as

1902
01:31:58,040 --> 01:32:00,840
Speaker 2: yours as to me. And she said, well, you know,

1903
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:03,720
Speaker 2: I look at music and it's like some people don't

1904
01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:05,280
Speaker 2: like my voice or don't like my music, you know.

1905
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:08,320
Speaker 2: And she said so, I'm not sure right, Well, she

1906
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:10,120
Speaker 2: was just being gracious, but she said, so, you know,

1907
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:12,840
Speaker 2: you do what you do, and you know, some people

1908
01:32:12,880 --> 01:32:14,080
Speaker 2: embrace some people don't.

1909
01:32:13,920 --> 01:32:14,040
Speaker 1: You know.

1910
01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:16,479
Speaker 2: And I think and these friendships that I've had over

1911
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 2: the years, like Randy Newman, people like this that I

1912
01:32:19,439 --> 01:32:22,360
Speaker 2: rever so much that you know, I just feel somewhat validated,

1913
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:25,240
Speaker 2: like I said, people like Brian Wilson. And in my house,

1914
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:29,880
Speaker 2: I have framed one Christmas Eve. I got the tube

1915
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 2: in the mail and it was an orchestral piece of

1916
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:34,880
Speaker 2: paper with God only knows written outside by Brian. Oh wow,

1917
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:36,880
Speaker 2: and I have it and Brian. I asked Brian why

1918
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:38,640
Speaker 2: he sent it to me. He said, well, because I

1919
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:40,280
Speaker 2: know how much you love Carl and he's saying that

1920
01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:44,240
Speaker 2: I thought you'd like to have it, and you still

1921
01:32:44,240 --> 01:32:46,400
Speaker 2: have it, right, I do. And Carl said to me once,

1922
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:49,320
Speaker 2: Carl said, when we were doing all these vocal sessions,

1923
01:32:49,400 --> 01:32:53,640
Speaker 2: he said, we make a nice sound. I love that man.

1924
01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:56,800
Speaker 2: So all these little validations I think, you know, in

1925
01:32:56,920 --> 01:33:01,240
Speaker 2: spite of the meteoric early success and that stuff means

1926
01:33:01,280 --> 01:33:01,720
Speaker 2: the world to me.

1927
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:05,120
Speaker 1: You know, what's your favorite mental album?

1928
01:33:06,040 --> 01:33:12,680
Speaker 2: Well, Hezia really well, I mean listen Blue Blue for

1929
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:15,479
Speaker 2: the Roses. I mean I can, that's what I like.

1930
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:17,560
Speaker 2: Steely Dan like, don't make me pick, but if I

1931
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:20,920
Speaker 2: mean Hezia's when she got with Jako because of Zacho, well, no,

1932
01:33:21,080 --> 01:33:24,559
Speaker 2: it just opened up her head. And I think even

1933
01:33:24,600 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 2: more than Summer Lawns well, Edith and the Kingpin. Don't

1934
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:30,800
Speaker 2: make me choose, but yeah, I think yea certainly Edith.

1935
01:33:30,880 --> 01:33:35,400
Speaker 2: But Haia like I heard that. Joan said to some

1936
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:38,439
Speaker 2: bass player, Uh, can you play something besides the root

1937
01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:40,640
Speaker 2: And he said, lady, I'm a bass player. I got

1938
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:43,040
Speaker 2: four st rings. That's what I do. And she said,

1939
01:33:43,240 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 2: he said, but there's this guy in Florida. I'll give

1940
01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:47,240
Speaker 2: you his number. He does that kind of shit and

1941
01:33:47,320 --> 01:33:50,040
Speaker 2: it was Jacko, and she called him and he flew

1942
01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:52,040
Speaker 2: out to La and Jones said, immediately we had a

1943
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:57,599
Speaker 2: conversation musically, but I feel like Hazia, but Hissing's amazing,

1944
01:33:57,680 --> 01:33:59,160
Speaker 2: like I said Edith in the Kingpin and you know,

1945
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:04,400
Speaker 2: uh uh, I mean Scarlett. Yeah, it's incredible. I mean

1946
01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:07,640
Speaker 2: there's not a bad piece of music in any of

1947
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:09,640
Speaker 2: that stuff. I mean, Blue is incredible, Ladies of the

1948
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:12,560
Speaker 2: Candle that but for the Roses is one that Ludwig's on,

1949
01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:13,880
Speaker 2: all that stuff. I love that stuff.

1950
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:17,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I've I've Butzer for You is the yeah,

1951
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:19,599
Speaker 1: and I love it. I'm not complaining. I'm not complaining,

1952
01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:22,840
Speaker 1: but it's just everyone always goes to that. But I

1953
01:34:22,840 --> 01:34:27,519
Speaker 1: always feel like that's like saying Thriller is your favorite album,

1954
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:29,679
Speaker 1: or Songs in the Key of Life like or Sergeant

1955
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:34,760
Speaker 1: Pepper's like and no One I think. I still say

1956
01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:36,200
Speaker 1: the Hissing of the Summer Lines is.

1957
01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:38,560
Speaker 2: Well, it's right. I agree with you. I mean, like

1958
01:34:39,120 --> 01:34:41,960
Speaker 2: Coyote and those tunes stuff. But you know, with Stevie,

1959
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:46,400
Speaker 2: it's interesting because not probably songs a yes, but like

1960
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:49,280
Speaker 2: Superwoman was on Music of my Mind. Yeah, I mean

1961
01:34:49,320 --> 01:34:49,720
Speaker 2: that to me.

1962
01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:52,000
Speaker 1: Oh, no, there's nothing like Music of My Mind.

1963
01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:53,920
Speaker 2: Sounds a quil but Music of my Mind, I mean

1964
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:56,120
Speaker 2: that record is one that really really got me.

1965
01:34:56,439 --> 01:34:59,960
Speaker 1: You know, I'm with you there before I close my fire,

1966
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:04,080
Speaker 1: I don't question is oh because of the iconic flamingo

1967
01:35:04,439 --> 01:35:09,960
Speaker 1: artwork on your album covers, where is the original drawing

1968
01:35:10,400 --> 01:35:13,719
Speaker 1: that adorned the debut album?

1969
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:18,200
Speaker 2: I think I would hope that Warner's probably has it,

1970
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:21,280
Speaker 2: because what happened was when Jimmy newhouse, this drummer came

1971
01:35:21,360 --> 01:35:24,000
Speaker 2: in with it was an album shaped size thing, but

1972
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:26,320
Speaker 2: it was the water color was covering the page. It

1973
01:35:26,360 --> 01:35:28,800
Speaker 2: wasn't in the green right, and he said, I think

1974
01:35:28,840 --> 01:35:30,760
Speaker 2: this is what your music looks like. Hung it on

1975
01:35:30,800 --> 01:35:32,720
Speaker 2: the wall, kind of like a focal point. And then

1976
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:34,439
Speaker 2: when I went to Warner's we got the album deal.

1977
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:36,120
Speaker 2: You know, they put up fifty records a month. I said,

1978
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:38,200
Speaker 2: what do you think about this? And they said, you know,

1979
01:35:39,080 --> 01:35:41,000
Speaker 2: it's cool. I said, okay. So then they had this

1980
01:35:41,080 --> 01:35:43,160
Speaker 2: guy Flora Holmes in Atlanta kind of put the green

1981
01:35:43,200 --> 01:35:46,040
Speaker 2: around it and all that. But somewhere peach Onsen are

1982
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:47,680
Speaker 2: one of the art people at Warner's, is probably in

1983
01:35:47,680 --> 01:35:49,640
Speaker 2: the Warner's archive. Somewhere where they kept it because I

1984
01:35:49,680 --> 01:35:53,000
Speaker 2: gave it to him to draw the original thing with it.

1985
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:56,000
Speaker 2: But originally it was almost like a Joni Mitchell watercolor.

1986
01:35:56,160 --> 01:35:58,560
Speaker 2: But the whole album was just that lagoon scene, and

1987
01:35:58,560 --> 01:36:00,759
Speaker 2: then you put it in the circle and the flamingo

1988
01:36:00,840 --> 01:36:04,320
Speaker 2: has no particular Everybody asked me, like, what's the significance.

1989
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:06,720
Speaker 2: It's just kind of like Linda Ronstet's heart. You know,

1990
01:36:06,960 --> 01:36:09,400
Speaker 2: it just became a thing that people identified me with.

1991
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:11,960
Speaker 2: So now, at one point when the record stopped selling

1992
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:13,960
Speaker 2: very well, one of the guys said, I think we

1993
01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:15,400
Speaker 2: should take the flaming go out back and beat the

1994
01:36:15,400 --> 01:36:15,880
Speaker 2: shit out of it.

1995
01:36:20,840 --> 01:36:24,880
Speaker 1: Oh man, well, Christopher Cross, I thank you so much.

1996
01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:29,800
Speaker 1: This is like, even as you were talking, I think

1997
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:31,200
Speaker 1: it was the first time I had an out of

1998
01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:34,880
Speaker 1: body experience where I actually said to myself like, wow,

1999
01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:38,320
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm listening to the world's coolest music podcast.

2000
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:41,600
Speaker 1: Then I was like, idiot, this is your podcast.

2001
01:36:41,240 --> 01:36:45,400
Speaker 2: Right, No, no, you tukon. I'm honored to be here.

2002
01:36:45,439 --> 01:36:48,200
Speaker 2: I'm a massive fan, and yeah, I filled to call

2003
01:36:48,240 --> 01:36:50,320
Speaker 2: your friend, and I'm just glad to speak the time

2004
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:50,479
Speaker 2: with you.

2005
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:52,760
Speaker 1: Thank you for embracing me and I thank you so

2006
01:36:52,880 --> 01:36:56,599
Speaker 1: much and yo the great Christopher Cross on the Quest

2007
01:36:56,680 --> 01:36:59,320
Speaker 1: Left Show and we will see you on the next round,

2008
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:08,920
Speaker 1: people Right. Quest Love Show is hosted by Me Amir

2009
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:13,400
Speaker 1: Quest Love Thompson. The executive producers are Sean g Brian

2010
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:19,479
Speaker 1: Calhoun and Me. Produced by Brittany Benjamin and Jake Paine.

2011
01:37:20,560 --> 01:37:25,879
Speaker 1: Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown, Edited by Alex Convoy.

2012
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:32,000
Speaker 1: iHeart Video support by Mark Canton, Logo's graphics and animation

2013
01:37:32,160 --> 01:37:38,880
Speaker 1: by Nicker Blog. Additional support by Lance Coleman. Special thanks

2014
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:45,280
Speaker 1: to Kathy Brown. Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel. Please subscribe,

2015
01:37:45,320 --> 01:37:48,200
Speaker 1: break review and a share a Quest Love Show wherever

2016
01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:51,040
Speaker 1: you stream your podcast, and make sure you follow us

2017
01:37:51,040 --> 01:37:57,400
Speaker 1: on socials That's at q LS. Check out hundreds and

2018
01:37:57,520 --> 01:38:01,160
Speaker 1: hundreds of QLs episodes, including the Slim Supreme Shows and

2019
01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:07,600
Speaker 1: our podcast archives. Westlim Show is a production of iHeartRadio.