1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Hey, Jasmine Morris here. It's been six years since I 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: released this podcast, So before I tell you why I'm 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: back in your feed, let's recap a little. In nineteen 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: eighty three, Palatin Press, a fringe publisher, released a book 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: called hit Man, a technical manual for independent contractors. The author, 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: who went by the pen name Rex Farrell, offered very 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: specific tips for the aspiring contract killer, where to find employment, 8 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: how much to charge, how to get away with murder, 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: and how to feel okay about it. Ten years later, 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: Tiffany Horn's mother, eight year old brother, and a close 11 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: family friend were killed. The exhaustive investigation involved multi state 12 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: surveillance and wire taps, but it wasn't until detectives stumbled 13 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: upon the book Hitman, that they suddenly had what they 14 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: called a blueprint for the murders. Over the last nine 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: episodes of this podcast, we dug into all of that, 16 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: plus the wild, untold story behind the book and it's 17 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: elusive author, which brings me to why I'm back with 18 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: an update. I recently got a phone call. It was 19 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: Tiffany Horn. 20 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: Hi, a Kathleen. 21 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: She was calling to let me know she'd just heard 22 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: from a reporter. 23 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 2: There is a journalist doing an article for Vanity Fair 24 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: regarding the woman that wrote the book hit Man. I 25 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: know she wrote it under a pseudonym, but she's coming 26 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 2: out now revealing her identity. 27 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: My first thought was, I've been waiting for a call 28 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: like this. If you listened to this podcast, you know 29 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: I kept Rex Ferrell's identity hidden for multiple reasons. One, 30 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: I was ninety nine point nine percent sure I had 31 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: the correct name, but she never confirmed it. I also 32 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: knew this day would come when she'd be ready to talk, 33 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: and that maybe if we're on her terms, it'd be 34 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: worth it. My second thought was, who's the reporter? It 35 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: was nearly impossible to find the actual name of who 36 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: authored Hitman. I mean, I spent years digging, and I 37 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: got it kind of by accident. So who could possibly 38 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: have found her? 39 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: The journalist actually reached out to me for me to 40 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: give a statement, or you know, if one of my 41 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 2: family members wanted to give her a statement. 42 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 3: So I did. 43 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 2: I had a conversation with her. Her name is Abbot, 44 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 2: and she told me that she had a personal relationship 45 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 2: with this woman. 46 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 1: I was relieved, actually, because this is the only other 47 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: person who's ever been able to find the real Rex Ferrell. 48 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: Abbot was the very first person I talked to about 49 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: all of this, literally a decade ago, years before I 50 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: even made this podcast. Back in twenty fifteen, I went 51 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: to Abbot's apartment in New York City, walking to Abbots, 52 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: here we are, and we spent an hour or so 53 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: talking about her friend, the author of Hitman. Abbot told 54 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: me about how smart and kind the author was, how 55 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: she'd been in an abusive relationship, even how this woman's 56 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: father was a deacon. So many details, except for Rex 57 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: Ferrell's actual name, or really any identifying information. I actually 58 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: mentioned Abbot briefly in episode seven, claimed to be a 59 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: friend of Rex Ferrell's, an author herself, Karen Abbott. She 60 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: once quoted an email from Rex publicly, I don't want 61 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: to be a hero, tragic or otherwise, Rex supposedly wrote, 62 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: I just want to sit in my rocker on my 63 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: front porch and tell my grandson's stories. There certain are 64 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: fantastic lies. Ultimately, Abbot didn't want to talk to me 65 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: without Rex's permission, which she never got as far as 66 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: I know, so she declined to participate in this podcast. Well, 67 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: I guess she finally got permission. So here we are 68 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: six years later. It's time to reveal the true identity 69 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: of Rex Ferrell from iHeartRadio and Hit Home Media. I'm 70 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: Jasmine Morris and this is hit Man. After this podcast 71 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: came out in twenty nineteen, we heard from so many 72 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: of you who thought you figured it out. One listener 73 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: sent me a Facebook profile for some woman named Patsy 74 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: in Kansas. Some said it was Nancy Gelber, a crime 75 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: writer who put a hit on her estranged husband. Many 76 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: of you thought it was a romance novelist who wrote 77 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: about how to murder a husband and then did just that. 78 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: When listener actually commented, Nancy Crampton Brophy is the woman 79 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: supposedly behind the book. A simple Internet searched can find 80 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: her real identity in mugshots. If it had been that easy, 81 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: well this would be a very different podcast. I'm going 82 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: to play a few more clips. This one is from 83 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: the very first episode, when I hadn't yet revealed that 84 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: Rex Ferrell was actually a woman. One day, buried in 85 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: something like five hundred pages of court documents that a 86 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: lawyer emailed me, I finally came across some correspondence between 87 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: Paladin and professional killer Rex Ferrell, the editorial director of Paladin, 88 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: was writing with good news. Enclosed, you will find two 89 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: copies of the contract for Hitman, a technical manual for 90 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: independent contractors. Signed two copies with a witness, and return 91 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: both to us. I was about to get my first 92 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: glimpse of the person behind the book. Here's what he 93 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: wrote back to Paladin. My main concern in offering this 94 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: type of material for publication is the possibility of litigation 95 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: from people who might misuse the materials in my books. 96 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: So the real res Ferrell might have had a conscience. 97 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: After all, it's easy to speculate what Ferrell's intentions were 98 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: in writing Hitman. To some it's not a question. I 99 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: mean he wrote a murder manual. To others it reads 100 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: his entertainment or a joke, a joke that James Perry 101 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: might have used to murder three people. But after reading 102 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: through this exchange, at least one thing becomes clear about Ferrell. Again, 103 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: he writes, by the way, an answer to your question 104 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: and that of mister Lunde, I get my materials from books, television, movies, newspapers, 105 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: police officers, my karate instructor, and a good friend who 106 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: is an attorney. No I am not a hit man. 107 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: I don't even own a gun, but don't tell anybody. So, yeah, 108 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: we knew the author was not a hit man. We 109 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: knew she was a woman. But that's about it. Here's 110 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: another clip from episode seven. How do you find someone 111 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: who wrote under a pen name, someone who might not 112 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: want to be found? I scoured message boards, Amazon reviews, 113 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: comments sections, hoping for some kind of breadcrumb that would 114 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: lead me to this person. Nothing. I asked the same 115 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: question over and over. Yeah, I was gonna ask you 116 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,679 Speaker 1: about this author? What do you know about the anonymous author? 117 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: You just mentioned the author? What did you know about 118 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: the author of the book? So who was the actual author? 119 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: Do you ever know anything about the author of the book? 120 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: But finally you'll remember, I had a breakthrough. I got 121 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: her name again. Another clip. Rex Ferrell won't confirm her identity. 122 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: Paladin's closed now and their press lawyer won't confirm it. 123 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: But my best available information tells me I'm right, And 124 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, the real Rex Ferrell 125 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: is now a grandmother in her seventies. She has a 126 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: social media presence and some of her posts are public. 127 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: I shouldn't be surprised by anything anymore. But she's not 128 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: at all what I pictured, not from what you'd imagine 129 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: from everything we've heard about the typical Paladin writer. She's 130 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: shared liberal memes about immigration, privilege in women's rights, and 131 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: she's really funny. I came across a few videos of her. 132 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: Her hair is white for the most part, she has 133 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: green eyes, and she's beautiful. In one of these videos, 134 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: she's singing, laughing, and wearing a sweater that says Grandma 135 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: on it. She has a slight Southern accent, and yet 136 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: it's hard to imagine this is the same person who 137 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: told their readers. 138 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 3: The kill is the easiest part of the job. People 139 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 3: kill one another every day. It takes no great effort 140 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 3: to pull a trigger or plunge a knife. It is 141 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 3: being able to do so in a manner that will 142 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 3: not link yourself or your employer to the crime that 143 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 3: makes you a professional, and the acceptance of the valuelessness 144 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 3: of life has given your own life value. 145 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: I didn't divulge any of this in the podcast, initially 146 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: because I didn't want to leave a trail. But after 147 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 1: I'd found her name, I discovered the details of her 148 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 1: life through newspaper clippings and interviews I did with law enforcement. 149 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: I'll never forget sitting at my computer at one am, 150 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: pouring over old newspapers. When I found the clipping about 151 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: the crooked cop boyfriend. It was like I unlocked a 152 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: door and stepped into an entire new world. After I 153 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: got all the case files, his arrest records, copies of Warren's, 154 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: his personnel files from the police department where he resigned 155 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: in disgrace, her name comes up over and over. She's 156 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: listed as this emergency contact. Both of their names come 157 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 1: up together in news articles and arrest records tied to 158 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: armed robbery. Then I went back to my conversation with 159 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: Abbot all those years ago, at the time she went 160 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: by Karen Abbot and I cross referenced everything I'd found 161 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: with some of the stories she told me. I just 162 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: plugged the real names in. It all lined up that 163 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: and Abbot had gone on to write a few books 164 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: of her own. I flipped through the pages of one, 165 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: and there it was, in the acknowledgment section, plain as day. 166 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 1: She thanked the author of Hitman. Abbott wrote an article 167 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: for Vanity Fair published this morning. At the same time 168 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: I'm publishing this episode. It confirms it all everything I 169 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: spent years piecing together, I was right. So I figured 170 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 1: it's time to share with you listeners, with the lawyers 171 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: and prosecutors from the criminal and civil cases tied to 172 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: this story, law enforcement, everyone I talked to in my 173 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: several years of reporting on this, even Tiffany the author 174 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: of hit Man, a technical manual for independent contractors. The 175 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 1: real Rex Ferrell is a woman in her late seventies 176 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: named Gail McCool. In the article published today, her story 177 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: unfolds exactly as I told it in this podcast. It's 178 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: all confirmed. The boyfriend, the drug buss, the explode, everything 179 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: I've talked to Abbott, I've asked for an interview with 180 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: her and the author. But again, as I've done through 181 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: this entire podcast, I go back to Tiffany Horn. Because 182 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: of her family, her loved ones hadn't been brutally murdered 183 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: by a hitman who followed all the tips in this manual, 184 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: no one would know or care about this book or 185 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: this author. 186 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 2: I mean, that's just always going to be the story. 187 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 2: Like this wasn't fiction, This was how to manual to 188 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 2: actually murder people. This is you know, and I know 189 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 2: even with True crime, which honestly I do watch, and 190 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 2: I told you that there's something about it that I 191 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 2: like to watch because I like to see people caught 192 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 2: for what they did. I like to see people go 193 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: down for what they did. And she, to me, is 194 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 2: like an accessory but never really felt the consequences of 195 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: that and could kind of pass that off as like, oh, 196 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 2: this is something I did to make money. I was 197 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 2: an abusive relationship. Whatever the reasons were, it doesn't matter. 198 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: You still did something that hurt people, and you should 199 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 2: still be held accountable. 200 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: When it comes to accountability in this story, there has 201 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: been justice. Tiffany's father, Lawrence Horn, and the hit man 202 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: he hired, James Perry, went to prison. Palettein pressed, the 203 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: publisher of Hitman, settled a lawsuit requiring them to pull 204 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: the book from shelves, but the author of Hitman, Gail, 205 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: has remained in the shadows, something Tiffany wasn't afforded. 206 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 2: I don't even go by my married name, just because 207 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 2: I don't want people to just be able to google. 208 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: Me like someone you're dating, or someone a coworker even or. 209 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 2: Yes, you would not believe how people still figure it 210 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: out and they still find out. 211 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: And meanwhile, this author has been able to live in 212 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: obscurity for the last forty years. 213 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, I don't think she's probably run away 214 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 2: from it herself, and we'll probably hear about that, So 215 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 2: that may be interesting to care about how it's affected 216 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 2: her mentally. Yeah, because if you're a human being, I 217 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 2: can't see it not affecting you mentally if you've had 218 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: this type of catastrophic effect that you've had like that 219 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: rever brates. 220 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: When Tiffany got the call from Abbott letting her know 221 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: about this article she was writing, this is how it went. 222 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 2: She basically was like she you know, really wanted to 223 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 2: come out and that she was, you know, very sorry, 224 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 2: and you know, then I kind of said, you know, 225 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 2: well that's interesting because I've never heard from her. And 226 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 2: she said, well, you know, she just assumed that people 227 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 2: obviously wouldn't want to, you know, hear an apology, you know. 228 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, that's weird that she would make 229 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 2: that assumption without even trying. And I found that ridiculous. 230 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 2: And I thought that was kind of like a you know, 231 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 2: basically bs and there's you know a lot of people 232 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 2: including my sister Janis's son that have been hurt by 233 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: this woman, So that's a cop out. And I didn't 234 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 2: like that, and I basically said that she could take 235 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 2: all of that and shove it up her, you know what, 236 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 2: because she made the choice that she made and she 237 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: has to live with it. And yeah, I guess this 238 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 2: is her opportunity to tell her, you know, perspective. But 239 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 2: when it comes to my family and I did, you know, 240 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 2: talk to my aunts, and you know, they just really 241 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 2: were feeling the same way that I felt like for 242 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 2: her to act like an apology would have been too little, 243 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 2: too late is ridiculous and that just shows the type 244 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 2: of person that she is. 245 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: Would you guys even be open to that at this 246 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: point if that's something that she did want. 247 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 2: To do, I mean, if she really took it seriously. 248 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 2: But I feel like she would have done that if 249 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 2: she did. I mean, we all make choices, and she 250 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 2: made a choice to dance with the devil, because that's 251 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: what I feel like. This is, you know, no matter 252 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 2: what her situation was, for her to write something so 253 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: disgusting and that was used to murder people like I, Yeah, 254 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 2: I couldn't even imagine being that type of person. So 255 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 2: I don't really know what her mindset is like, but yeah, 256 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: I guess we'll see. 257 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: Like Tiffany said, we'll see what happens next. If I've 258 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: learned anything from this story is that just when you 259 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: think it's over, it's not. This podcast is a production 260 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Hit Home Media. Our theme song is 261 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: by Alise McCoy. An additional music written and produced by 262 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: the students at DINE powered by the Detroit Institute of 263 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: Music Education. Special thanks to Michelle Lance. I'm Jasmine wiss 264 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: in This is hit Man.