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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline and Caroline. Today we have a

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Speaker 1: special podcast episode because I got to chat with Emily Matcher,

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Speaker 1: who is the author of the upcoming book Homeward Bound,

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Speaker 1: The New Cult of Domesticity, and it is coming out.

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Speaker 1: It's slated to come out in May, so right around

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Speaker 1: the corner, but you can check out her blogging over

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Speaker 1: at New New Domesticity dot com. And the reason why

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Speaker 1: we wanted to talk to match her about New Domesticity

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Speaker 1: is because it ties into a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: we talked about on the podcast, and I feel like

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Speaker 1: a lot of interests that podcast listeners have. Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: Matcher is a really interesting woman. This whole idea of

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Speaker 1: new domesticity being something that a lot of women are

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Speaker 1: being attracted to. And there's this very interesting debate that

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Speaker 1: that we've kind of been keeping tabs on about is

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Speaker 1: this something that helps women or is this somehow sending

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Speaker 1: women back to the Stone age and oppressing them. So

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of arguments on both sides. Yeah, and um,

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Speaker 1: in our chat with Emily Matcher, she'll give us more

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Speaker 1: details about what new domesticity is, but just for a

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Speaker 1: general idea, we're talking about the revival of things like

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Speaker 1: knitting and handcrafts. Etsy is a great online source just

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Speaker 1: for a glimpse of new domesticity and even more intensive,

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Speaker 1: time intensive things like backyard chicken keeping, canning, preserving. Uh,

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Speaker 1: really a return to I guess lost domestic arts that

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Speaker 1: were replaced by more convenient appliances or techniques or just

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Speaker 1: a TV dinner, TeV dinners, things like that. And she

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Speaker 1: she does talk about how there's this return um from

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Speaker 1: what our mothers and grandmothers were doing, which is maybe

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Speaker 1: relying on those TV dinners, maybe not cooking those homemade

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Speaker 1: pies or knitting sweaters as you know, as much as

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Speaker 1: our predecessors were. Yeah, And we first noticed Emily's work

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Speaker 1: over at Salon when we were researching our episode on

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Speaker 1: Pinterest and she she wrote about the why I can't

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Speaker 1: stop reading Mormon housewife blogs and it's a great post

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Speaker 1: so where she talks about um, Mormon mommy bloggers and

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Speaker 1: sort of the this Pinterest perfect life it seems like

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Speaker 1: a lot of them are living and how that ties

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Speaker 1: into new domesticity. In her fascination with that in comparison

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Speaker 1: to how she lives her own day to day life

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Speaker 1: in a much less pinterest perfect way, which I think

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Speaker 1: you know, you and I Caroline can probably both relate

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Speaker 1: to very strongly. Um So, so, yeah, we chat with Emily.

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Speaker 1: She is living currently in China, so we had an

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Speaker 1: international conversation with her, and I guess why don't we

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Speaker 1: listen to what Emily had to say about New Domesticity,

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Speaker 1: her book that's coming out. What New Domesticity is, how

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Speaker 1: men play a role in this stuff as well, and

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Speaker 1: some other things. And uh so, why don't we kick

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Speaker 1: off my interview with Emily with the question I asked

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Speaker 1: her of what got her interested in new domesticity and

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Speaker 1: if she could offer some more insight into what exactly

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Speaker 1: that is. So ladies and gents, please enjoy our conversation

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Speaker 1: with Emily Matcher. So New Domesticity is just the title

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Speaker 1: that I'm sort of throwing at a variety of interrelated things.

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Speaker 1: Um but generally speaking, the sort of the resurgence of

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Speaker 1: interest in old fashioned domestic stuff, you know, and this

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Speaker 1: is everything from the you know, knitting, the crafting revival.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've seen knitting and Etsy and crocheting and

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Speaker 1: all this stuff is hip again, you know, UM and

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Speaker 1: the hoodie movement and people being really into food and

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Speaker 1: home cooking all the way through to sort of neo homesteading, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, people raising chickens in their backyard and uh

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Speaker 1: and wanting to get back to me six and that

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Speaker 1: whole thing. And so I sort of look at it

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Speaker 1: as part of you know, one larger phenomenon. That's what

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Speaker 1: I'm calling new domesticity. UM. And yeah, I got interested

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Speaker 1: in it because as um, as a writer who writes

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Speaker 1: a lot about about food and culture, I kept meeting

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Speaker 1: people who were like really into canning jam you know.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't just it wasn't just you know, a hobby.

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Speaker 1: It was sort of part of a lifestyle. And um.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'd meet meet you know, women that were

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Speaker 1: into attachment parenting, who home schooled their kids and baked

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Speaker 1: all their own bread and raised goats and and I

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Speaker 1: began to see that this was sort of it was

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Speaker 1: a larger lifestyle movement, that these things were sort of

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Speaker 1: pieces of UM. And that's when I got I got

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Speaker 1: sort of curious about it as um as a bigger thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, wondering where it came from and what it meant. Well.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned on the website one of the blog posts

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Speaker 1: when you you'd worked out the working title for the

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Speaker 1: book and how it UM is a nod to the

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Speaker 1: Victorian era cult of domesticity, which has, like those the

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Speaker 1: four cardinal virtues of piety, purity, submission, and domesticity. So

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get your thoughts on what might be

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Speaker 1: the cardinal virtues of the cult of New Domesticity. I

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Speaker 1: think the cardinal virtue UM would probably be d I

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Speaker 1: y do it yourself UM. And this takes a lot

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Speaker 1: of forms. I think there's a there's a real impetus

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Speaker 1: in this movement to to do things yourself, you know,

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Speaker 1: miss could be cooking from scratch, or selling your own clothes,

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Speaker 1: or growing your own veggies, you know, all the way

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Speaker 1: through homeschooling your own children. It's very much about sort

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Speaker 1: of you know, going outside the system and UM and

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Speaker 1: and doing things yourself. I would say that's the cardinal virtue,

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Speaker 1: although things like UM you certainly see sort of an

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Speaker 1: interest in purity when it comes to food and things

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Speaker 1: like that, which which definitely have parallels with the nineteenth

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Speaker 1: century cult of domesticity and and generally sort of the

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Speaker 1: I think the idea, even if it's not spoken, um,

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Speaker 1: that by doing this stuff you are a better person,

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Speaker 1: a better woman, a better mother. Uh. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting in reading about um sort of what

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Speaker 1: is driving a lot of this, a lot of the

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Speaker 1: resurgence for these um you know, sort of crafts from

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Speaker 1: a slower time and uh, and you talk about how

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Speaker 1: it's linked a lot of times to a disfaction dissatisfaction.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me with you know, the idea of you know,

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Speaker 1: the nine to five world sitting in a cubicle being

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Speaker 1: a weekend warrior and uh is it? Are we just

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Speaker 1: looking back to, you know, wanting a bygone era of

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Speaker 1: a slower and even like less convenient time, even though

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Speaker 1: you know, the the lifestyle that we have now is

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Speaker 1: supposed to be um, you know, faster and easier and

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Speaker 1: and all of that. You know, I think there's a

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Speaker 1: real nostalgia for what people perceive as a sort of

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Speaker 1: simpler and more wholesome time. And I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of that has to do with, um, you know, we

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Speaker 1: live in a super high tech society and you know,

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Speaker 1: just on a very basic level, Um, you know, when

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Speaker 1: you work at a computer all day, I think we

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Speaker 1: have you know, humans have a pretty you know, natural urge.

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Speaker 1: We like to do things with their hands, right, you know.

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Speaker 1: And so I think when you're when you're sort of

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Speaker 1: separated from that, when you're in an office, when you're

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Speaker 1: you know, living in this high tech world, people have

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Speaker 1: a craving for for you know, tactile connection. And so

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of stuff, like you know, crafting

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Speaker 1: and cooking has to do with people wanting to reclaim

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Speaker 1: that connection, being be able to work with their hands. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, people, this is the We're living

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Speaker 1: in a in a pretty anxious era for a lot

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Speaker 1: of reasons, you know, the economy and the environment and

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Speaker 1: political instability and war and all these things that make

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Speaker 1: people people anxious. I think people crave what they perceive

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Speaker 1: as a more simple and stable time. You know, this

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Speaker 1: idea that oh, you know, back in the day when

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Speaker 1: you know, are in our great grandparents era, you worked

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Speaker 1: on the farm and you made your own things, and

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Speaker 1: you you know, didn't have to go work this horrible

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Speaker 1: nine job that you hate that you could lose any

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Speaker 1: day anyway. Um, And I think that creates a sort

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Speaker 1: of powerful urge to get back to what people perceive

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Speaker 1: as the basic Um, well, can you talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about the role of the Internet and being wired

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Speaker 1: and how that relates to new domesticity, because it seems

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Speaker 1: like on the one hand that um, you know, our

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Speaker 1: constant connection via the Internet and social media and just

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Speaker 1: a fast pace that comes along with that maybe fuel

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Speaker 1: some of that anxiety that you're talking about that makes

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Speaker 1: us want to you know, slow things down and uh

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Speaker 1: feel that nostalgia. But at the same time too, it

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Speaker 1: seems like the Internet is also facilitated all of these

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Speaker 1: communities and platforms things like Etsy. Uh So, I was

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Speaker 1: just wondering what what your take on how how the Internet,

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Speaker 1: Internet it relates to all of this would be, Well,

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Speaker 1: I think you you totally hit on it. I think, um,

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Speaker 1: the Internet both drives new dust domesticity, and new domesticity

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Speaker 1: is also a reaction against the Internet culture to some degree.

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Speaker 1: I definitely do not think that new domesticity would exist

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Speaker 1: at all without the Internet. I think, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: like you said, it has facilitated, um, the revival of

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Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff. You know, the crafting movement

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Speaker 1: really came out of um out of websites dedicated to crafting,

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Speaker 1: and now we have stuff like etc and UM and Ravelry,

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Speaker 1: which is a knitting website. UM and you know ininterest

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Speaker 1: for people share crafts and ideas UM. And then there's

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Speaker 1: the whole world of blogs, you know, and food blogs

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Speaker 1: and people sharing recipes and these have created like these

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Speaker 1: real communities and I think really driven interest and stuff

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Speaker 1: like you know, do it yourself and from scratch cooking

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Speaker 1: and UM and and and you know, created these communities

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Speaker 1: and created you know, a sort of sense of of

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Speaker 1: aspiration if you look at these you know, neo domestic blogs,

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Speaker 1: they're so beautiful and you know, everything's photographed so nicely,

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Speaker 1: and you look at them and even if you're not

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Speaker 1: at all like domestic or interested in cooking or crafty,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of hard not to look at some of these,

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Speaker 1: you know, lifestyle blogs and go oh, you know, I

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Speaker 1: want that um and uh and I think yeah. On

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Speaker 1: on the flip side of that, there's just the fact

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Speaker 1: of the Internet being this, you know, seven technological invasion

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Speaker 1: of your home that I think a lot of people

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Speaker 1: want to escape from when they're you know, going back

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Speaker 1: to basics, like you know, when you're spending your time

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Speaker 1: doing something tactile like cooking or or knitting or you know,

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Speaker 1: growing veggies in your backyard. You're making a you know,

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Speaker 1: del bridge choice to step away from internet culture. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that, Um, And this is just kind

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Speaker 1: of on a side note that because I feel like

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Speaker 1: the rise of the quote unquote mommy bloggers almost predated

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Speaker 1: the popularity of Etsy and Ravelry and these other like

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Speaker 1: larger communities. And do you think that maybe mom bloggers

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Speaker 1: in a way sort of and having that platform. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, showed the value of housework in a

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Speaker 1: way that maybe it had been dismissed for a little while.

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Speaker 1: Is just you know, oh, you're just to stay at

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Speaker 1: home mom, But now you can actually see all of

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Speaker 1: these things that they're doing, this incredible food that they're

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Speaker 1: making and uh, their home designer however they're doing it.

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Speaker 1: If that makes sense, No, Yeah, I think you you

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Speaker 1: totally hit it on the head. Um. I think there

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Speaker 1: has been a movement for for a while, and probably

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Speaker 1: a little bit predating the Internet, you know, maybe starting

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Speaker 1: in the nineties, to to reclaim you know, old fashioned

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Speaker 1: women's work like um, like crafts. I think there's a

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Speaker 1: big crafting revival that started with sort of the punk

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Speaker 1: rock riot girl movement in the nineties, with you know,

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Speaker 1: women saying, hey, like it's cool and punk rock to

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Speaker 1: do uh crocheting and make your own clothes and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, and that sort of grew into a whole

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Speaker 1: movement to to reclaim the domestic, to reclaim respect for

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Speaker 1: roum for old fashioned women's work, which you know, had

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Speaker 1: been very denigrated over the years. If you look at

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Speaker 1: you know, like Bust magazine, is this you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of third way feminist magazine that started UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: running these sort of kitchy pictures of housewives and you know,

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Speaker 1: how to cleaning articles like in the late nineties early

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Speaker 1: two thousand's as sort of this big you know, this

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Speaker 1: this movement to UM to sort of reclaim, reclaim women's

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Speaker 1: work as something of value. And I think the mom

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Speaker 1: blogging ended up being part of a big part of

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Speaker 1: that because a lot of I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: the reason that women's work has been historically devalued is

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Speaker 1: because it's invisible. You don't you know, you don't know

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Speaker 1: what your neighbors dinner looks like. You don't see her

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Speaker 1: folding her laundry. You don't see any of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that's one of the reasons it

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Speaker 1: was very hard to be a housewife was because you

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Speaker 1: didn't get any external validation. And especially you know, once

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Speaker 1: women started getting educations and started having experience and the

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Speaker 1: workforce and got used to the external validation of you know,

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Speaker 1: being in a workplace, they're getting grades in school, I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people found it very hard to

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Speaker 1: not get that anymore. And I think mom blogs um

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Speaker 1: uh unintentionally ended up becoming this venue for people to

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Speaker 1: show off there um what they did in the home

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Speaker 1: and thereby gaining some some validation for it. You know,

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Speaker 1: like you might cook dinner every night and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe your husband and your kids say thank you, maybe

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Speaker 1: they don't. But if you photograph your dinner and you

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Speaker 1: put the recipe online, people are going to go, hey,

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Speaker 1: oh awesome, you know, great recipe, and you're going to

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Speaker 1: get you're going to get validation. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: actually this pretty like phenomenal important effective um of mom

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Speaker 1: blogs and lifestyle blogs because all of a sudden, you know,

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Speaker 1: this women's work that's been invisible for you know, since

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Speaker 1: the dawn of time, all of a sudden has this

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Speaker 1: very public platform. You know, well, it's interesting, like there is.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me too of of a post that you

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Speaker 1: had on the website about, um whether or not we're

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Speaker 1: almost going overboard, Like you know, I think you were

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Speaker 1: talking to something about going on apartment therapy and wondering

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Speaker 1: whether or not you should like curtains up, and then

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Speaker 1: you didn't even want to ask because it's like, now

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Speaker 1: we're almost to the point where everything you know looks

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Speaker 1: so perfect online and we have these like aspirational blogs

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Speaker 1: that we look like look at and pinterest in all

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Speaker 1: of this. UM So, I wonder if are is there

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Speaker 1: a danger and especially in talking about this within the

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Speaker 1: framework of feminism, is there a danger in exalting this

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Speaker 1: quote unquote women's work too much to where we're back

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Speaker 1: in the same place we were where, you know, back

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Speaker 1: to something along the lines of the you know, the

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Speaker 1: Victorian culture domesticity, where woman's worth is found in what

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Speaker 1: her home looks like. Well, that's exactly exactly the problem.

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Speaker 1: You know. On the one hand, of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: people should be validated for the work they do. On

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Speaker 1: the other hand, the sort of um, the all the

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Speaker 1: sharing of of domesticity. UM mind does create a sense

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Speaker 1: of competition and does there is a sense in which

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Speaker 1: it raises the bar on a on what it takes

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Speaker 1: to be a good um, a good housekeeper, good a

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Speaker 1: good mother, or a good woman. You know, because before

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Speaker 1: the internet, like you know, the housework wasn't visible. You

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Speaker 1: didn't know what your neighbor's closet looked like. You didn't

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Speaker 1: know what your neighbor's dinner looks like. And now you

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Speaker 1: can go online, you can look at blogs. You can see,

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Speaker 1: you know, what these strangers are cooking and eating, and

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Speaker 1: what their kids are wearing, and they keep craft projects

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Speaker 1: they did and you know, of course this isn't the

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Speaker 1: full view of their lives, you know, naturally, it's this

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Speaker 1: completely edited, mediated view of their life that's put on

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Speaker 1: the blog for public consumption. But I think people have

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Speaker 1: a hard time reading between the lines there, you know,

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Speaker 1: because blogs are supposed to be this very authentic, you know,

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Speaker 1: very personal medium. Yeah, and there becomes we get this

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Speaker 1: really you know, uncomfortable gray area where um, you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of bloggers are sort of semi professionals, taking

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Speaker 1: sort of semi professional pictures of their semi professional cooking

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Speaker 1: and decorating, and you know, regular people go, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: now I feel bad about myself. Why doesn't my food

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Speaker 1: look like that? Why doesn't my living room look like that? Um?

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Speaker 1: And it does create a culture in which, you know,

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Speaker 1: the the whole you know, thousands of women are deaning

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Speaker 1: this validation for being good housekeepers, which is sort of,

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Speaker 1: in my mind, uncomfortably close to the whole cult of domesticity.

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Speaker 1: You know, Um, people are gaining validation from having you know,

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Speaker 1: the cutest living rooms or the nicest looking dinner. So um. So. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: On the one hand, I think that, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: great that people can be validated for the hard work

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Speaker 1: they do in the home. On the other hand, I

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Speaker 1: do worry that it the whole culture of lifestyle blogs,

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Speaker 1: you know, raises the bar for ordinary women who spend

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Speaker 1: a lot of time looking at semi professional blogs and

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Speaker 1: feeling bad about themselves and feeling like their self worth

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Speaker 1: is really tied up and in how well they keep

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Speaker 1: their home. Yeah, because it also seems to add another

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Speaker 1: wrinkle to the whole debate that about about whether or

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Speaker 1: not women can have it all, you know, because for

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Speaker 1: so long it's been something that's more just you know,

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Speaker 1: looking for career success in the workplace and yes, childcare

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Speaker 1: and managing all of that. But now there's sort of

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Speaker 1: a new, um, a new aspect to it as well.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just wondering, like when, you know, can we

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Speaker 1: have the career success in the corner office and also

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Speaker 1: have our own canned jam that we can bring into

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Speaker 1: office parties, you know what I mean. Like it seems

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Speaker 1: like there's so there's so much now, Like it's a

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Speaker 1: good thing that, uh, women's work is being validated in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways, like in terms of the domestic sphere,

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Speaker 1: But where does this square with work outside of the home?

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Speaker 1: Right right? Well? Um, you know, I think one of

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Speaker 1: the big problems is that you know, in in New

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Speaker 1: domesticity sort of as a movement, um, a lot of

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Speaker 1: this stuff gets sort of very moralized because it's tied

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Speaker 1: up with um, you know, questions of consumerism and questions

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Speaker 1: of environmentalism and questions of what kind of food is

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Speaker 1: good and safe to eat? Right. So, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: easy enough when somebody's just knitting for a hobby, but um,

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Speaker 1: you know, you get it's much more complicated than that.

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Speaker 1: You get, Um, you know, a lot of talk about well,

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Speaker 1: you know, you should be cooking from scratch because that's

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Speaker 1: the way, that's the only way that it's healthy for

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Speaker 1: your family. And you know, you should would be knowing

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Speaker 1: your farmer and go into a farmer's market. You should

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Speaker 1: be buying organic, and you should be you know, growing

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Speaker 1: your veggies and you know, soaking your grains and doing

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Speaker 1: all these things because it's the right thing to do

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Speaker 1: for your children's health, and it's the right thing to

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Speaker 1: do for the environment and for your local community. And um,

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Speaker 1: you know, oh you should be you know making your

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Speaker 1: own cleaning solutions out of vinegar because you know it's

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Speaker 1: good for the environment. And don't take lazy shortcuts because

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Speaker 1: that's bad for the environment. And oh, you know, if

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Speaker 1: you go out and buy things or higher you know,

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Speaker 1: babysitters to go to the movies, you know, that's sort

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Speaker 1: of consumerists. I think, Um, I think there's this there's

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Speaker 1: this huge sort of moralization of the domestic realm, this

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Speaker 1: idea that your domestic choices can have these huge impacts

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Speaker 1: on the world. Like of course people are going to

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Speaker 1: feel like they're never doing it right, you know. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I think that makes it. You know, women, like

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Speaker 1: you said, already have a hard enough time trying to

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Speaker 1: keep things together in terms of job and childcare. And

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Speaker 1: now there's also the sense that you know, well, you

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Speaker 1: can't just take a short cut by you know, buying

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Speaker 1: you know, pre made meals or dropping your kids off

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Speaker 1: at daycare, because that's somehow you know, im moral, wrong

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Speaker 1: and and and bad for your children and bad for

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Speaker 1: the world, you know what I mean. Um, and that

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Speaker 1: puts a huge amount of pressure on women. UM well,

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Speaker 1: I'm also really curious about the people that you've met

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Speaker 1: through this new domesticity research and wondering. I mean, obviously

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Speaker 1: there's the cornerstone d I y ethic and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: the embrace of going more natural and slower in a way. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but have you noticed certain hallmarks of people who are

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Speaker 1: really drawn and very invested in um these kinds of

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Speaker 1: of new domesticity, Like what they have in common with

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Speaker 1: each other? Yeah, if there are any, like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: any certain types of personality traits I feel like, like,

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Speaker 1: for instance, like people that I know who are incredibly

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Speaker 1: crafty are just like very organized and very creative and

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Speaker 1: and things like that. So I was just wondering, uh,

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Speaker 1: if you had noticed certain I don't know, shared traits

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. Well, I'll say that there's a

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Speaker 1: huge variety of people doing this, and obviously it's not

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Speaker 1: all women. And I did interview um for my for

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Speaker 1: my blogging from my book, UM plenty of men, and

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Speaker 1: that there are people in different socio economic groups and

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Speaker 1: and different um, sort of political beliefs too. You get

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Speaker 1: a lot of you know, sort of very conservative Christian

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Speaker 1: women embracing d I y and natural parenting and that

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Speaker 1: whole thing, UM, as well as sort of your stereotypical

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Speaker 1: crunchy liberals. But I will say, UM, I think I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things that a lot, though not

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Speaker 1: all of UM of women that are very into new

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Speaker 1: domesticity have in common is that they are very smart,

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Speaker 1: generally educated, and really creative, but for one reason or

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Speaker 1: the other, have not connected with a career. And this

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Speaker 1: is this doesn't mean they don't have one, you know,

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Speaker 1: but they might not find it totally satisfying, or it

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Speaker 1: might be part time, or they might have you know,

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Speaker 1: left it after their children were born. UM. And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, being creative and UM and educated and engaged,

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Speaker 1: they find you know, engaging a new domesticity, a way

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Speaker 1: of um, you know, a way of using their energies

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Speaker 1: and and using their creativity UM in the absence of

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Speaker 1: a job or the absence of a really satisfying job.

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Speaker 1: You know. So if you're doing a lot of super

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Speaker 1: intensive domestic stuff all the time, you know, you're, say,

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Speaker 1: you're homeschooling your kids, or you're just, um, you have

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Speaker 1: a huge garden that you're in every day, or you're

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Speaker 1: sewing your own clothes, or you're you know, you're raising chickens.

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Speaker 1: That sort of becomes like a career in a sense

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Speaker 1: for some people, and even people who don't take it

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Speaker 1: that far. I think, you know, um, even just being

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Speaker 1: very invested in something like cooking from scratch takes a

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Speaker 1: lot of time and energy and creativity UM that maybe

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Speaker 1: you're not using on the job because you are because

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Speaker 1: you don't have a job, or because you um, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have a job that's not fully engaging you for

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Speaker 1: whatever reason. And I think this is even for for

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Speaker 1: younger women who don't have kids, and for men and everybody.

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Speaker 1: I think dissatisfaction with the job definitely leads to UM

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Speaker 1: wanting to do more creative stuff. So if you're sort

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Speaker 1: of bored in your job, like lots of us are,

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Speaker 1: you know, especially with the recession and people maybe not

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Speaker 1: having their dream job, Like, yeah, you want to come

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Speaker 1: home and you want to you know, do something that

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Speaker 1: you're engaged with and passionate about. And that's where you know,

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Speaker 1: raising your bees on the rooftop um and you know,

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Speaker 1: in crocheting, that's where that kind of stuff comes in

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Speaker 1: to fill that to fill back gap. Well, speaking of

428
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 1: raising bees on rooftops, was very curious about maybe some

429
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: of the more extreme or just intriguing examples of new domesticity,

430
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: like you know, like someone washing laundering their own clothes

431
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: with you know, an old school washboard, or grinding their

432
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: own flower or anything like that. I did not actually

433
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: meet anyone who used an old fashioned washboard. That would

434
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: be so much work, oh my gosh, but you know what,

435
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure somebody's doing it. I did meet lots of

436
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: people who you know, who hung their clothes to dry um.

437
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: But I met let's see, I met a woman in

438
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: Brooklyn who was raising rabbits and chickens and bees in

439
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: her Brooklyn backyard that was like, you know, the size

440
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: of a postage stamp. Um, and that a woman who

441
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,719
Speaker 1: had been a web designer and had decided to just

442
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 1: go off grid on our own and was living in

443
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: like very rural state New York trying to raise sheep. Um.

444
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: I met you know, women that were very into natural mothering,

445
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: who you know, had six kids before they were thirty

446
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: and we're homeschooling all of them. Um. So yeah, and

447
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: people who people who were trying really hard to grow

448
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 1: all their own food. Um. Some people who sewed all

449
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: their families clothes. So yeah, I mean you can you

450
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: can see how a few know you are really into

451
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 1: new domesticity is like an entire lifestyle. Um, it's a

452
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: it's quite time and energy consuming. Yeah, I can help

453
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: me imagine. Um. Well, you also you mentioned a few

454
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: minutes ago that you also spoke to some men about

455
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: news New Domesticity, and I just wanted to know where

456
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 1: they fit into it, because you know, it makes sense

457
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 1: that a lot of the conversation is framed around women

458
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: mothers who are very invested in this kind of housekeeping

459
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: and and crafting and stuff. But obviously men are are

460
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: getting in on this as well. So what what are

461
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: they doing in terms of new domesticity. Yeah, I mean

462
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of the same things really,

463
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: um you know. I mean women have historically, um, a

464
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: stronger and more complicated relationship with um, with the domestic sphere,

465
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: but that's that's changing. And a lot of men, especially

466
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: young men, are you know, are also interested in in

467
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: d I Y domesticity. I mean tons of men are

468
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: you know, really interested in cooking and you know, curing

469
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: their own bacon and uh, making stuff from scratch and

470
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: pickling and all that stuff in the kitchen. Um you know.

471
00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: I mean I think men are definitely behind when it

472
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: comes to uh, you know, traditional crafts um, which has

473
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: been very very female dominated over the years. But plenty

474
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: of guys are are into other d I Y type stuff.

475
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: I mean, there are there are some guys that are

476
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: into knitting. I did interview um a male quilster um

477
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: and uh. But you know, guys doing things like you know,

478
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: fixing their own bikes and other sorts of of do

479
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: it yourself building things around the house than guys who

480
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: wanted to build their own houses. Um and uh. And yeah,

481
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: when it comes to parenting, I mean, the the whole

482
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: natural parenting movement does tend to be very mother centric.

483
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: But there are men I talked to who were involved

484
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: in and stuff like like home schooling their kids. UM.

485
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: And yeah, and then the whole homesteading movement. UM, A

486
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: lot of men are into that and a lot of

487
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: the people I talked to, UM, they would be couples

488
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: and both partners would be involved in the homesteading to

489
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: some degree, which you know, if you're going to be

490
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: doing something as time consuming is raising animals, you know,

491
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: in a suburban backyard, it's a good thing of both

492
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: of you are are invested in it. Is there anything

493
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: that we didn't touch on about new domesticity or anything

494
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: related to that that you would like our listeners to

495
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: know about. I mean, I guess I just think, Um,

496
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: new domesticity can mean a lot of different different things,

497
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: and for some people, you know, some people are just

498
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: you know, maybe involved and you know they just happen

499
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: to like to knit or craft and it doesn't have

500
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: any larger meaning than that. But I think when you

501
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: take all these things together, I think it's definitely a

502
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: movement to you know, to reclaim you know, some slower

503
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: ways of living and uh and live in a more

504
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: sustainable way. And it's a reaction to the bad and

505
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: you know, um economy and people dissatisfaction with jobs and

506
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: just sort of a general unhappiness with the status quo.

507
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: Um that's leading people to be interested in everything from

508
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: making their own clothes to growing their own food to

509
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: you know, homeschool in their kids. So I think, um,

510
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: it's a it's a lot of different things that it

511
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: means different things for different people. Yeah, it's definitely. It's

512
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: it's very interesting to see how, like you you said,

513
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: it touches like so many different people with different political

514
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: affiliations or might be religious motivations or more secular motivations.

515
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: It's just it's kind of fascinating to see how it

516
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: appeals to such a broad and diverse group of people. Um. Yeah,

517
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: well in my book, I have a whole chapter on them.

518
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: I'm the sort of bizarre bedfellows of new domesticity. How

519
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: you get stuff like you know, the Amish and uh,

520
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, bearded Brooklyn hipsters who are you know, swapping

521
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: tips about you know, seeds and growing tomatoes, and you

522
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: get you know, very very conservative religious Christian women that

523
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: are into natural mothering because it appeals to their sort

524
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: of idea. You know of of you know, god given

525
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: motherly instinct, and they're doing things like home birthing and homeschooling, um,

526
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: cloth stapering and that whole thing, just like the superliberal

527
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: country women of Berkeley who are doing it for completely

528
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: different reasons. Um. So I think I think that's really fascinating,

529
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: this sort of that, you know, red state and blue

530
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: state would come together on the domestic front in this way.

531
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: So I'd like to go ahead and just thank Emily

532
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: so much for talking to us. It was a really

533
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: interesting interview. And I do think this whole concept of

534
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: new domesticity is fascinating just simply, I mean, like taking

535
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: all the rest of it out, just simply for the

536
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: fact that so many different types of people subscribe to

537
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: this philosophy of I'm going to make things at home,

538
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to make things myself. I'm going to you know,

539
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: provide for my family and myself, uh by making things

540
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: with my own hands. Yeah. And it's really fascinating to

541
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: me too what what she hits on in terms of

542
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: how it's often fueled. It seems like by a general

543
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: angst over the pace of our day to day life

544
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: and needing to take time away from the hustle and

545
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: bustle of twenty one century, living to slow down and

546
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: actually make things that we can hold and that we

547
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: can eat, and that we can take pictures of and

548
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: put on Pinterest. You know, that's the funny part of it.

549
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: It's that tension between wanting to get away from it

550
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: and yet the Internet fueling it at the same time. So, UM,

551
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear from folks out there who

552
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: are knitters and canners and cooks and chicken raizors New

553
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: domesticity folks, I'm sure you know who you are. And again, um,

554
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: you can find Emily Matcher's writing all over the Internet

555
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 1: at places like The Washington Post, Salon, Men's Journal, the BBC,

556
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: The Hairpin, and other sites as well, and she also

557
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 1: blogs at New Domesticity dot com. And again, Emily Matchew's book,

558
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: which is coming out in May, is called Homeward Bound,

559
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: The New Cult of Domesticity. It's coming out from Simon

560
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 1: and Schuster, so keep an eye out for that. Again,

561
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: thanks so much to Emily, And for folks who want

562
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: to send us your thoughts on New domesticity and what

563
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: you thought about what Emily had to say, you can

564
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: send us an email. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com

565
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: is our address. Here is a letter from Joss Kristen.

566
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: She wrote in about our dieting and Feminism is episode

567
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: and was a little disappointed. Oh man. She says she's

568
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 1: disappointed that neither of us mentioned the idea of Health

569
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: at Every Size or h A E F well, not

570
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: directly related to feminism. Help It Every Size is a

571
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: concept that many fat activists have been advocating. My understanding

572
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: of Health It Every Size is that it questions a

573
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: lot of commonly held belief surrounding obesity and health, such

574
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: as the supposed link between obesity and diabetes. Supporters of

575
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: h a e S advocate for eating a balanced diet

576
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,399
Speaker 1: and exercising regardless of how much weight loss it may

577
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: or may not cause. Linda Bacon's book Help It Every Size,

578
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: The Surprising Truth about Your Weight is a good place

579
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: to start if you're new to the idea. There's quite

580
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: a lot to be said about h a e S

581
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: and perhaps worth doing an entire episode on. Yeah, fat

582
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: activism is um something that we do need to talk

583
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,919
Speaker 1: about at some points, So thanks for the point, Joff. Yeah, absolutely,

584
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: and I've got another email here in response to our

585
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: episode on whether dating is a feminist issue? And this

586
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: is from Kendra, and she writes, I was appropriately enough

587
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: working out in the gym when I listened to your

588
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: podcast on dieting and feminism, and I got so excited

589
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: that I scooted I tush off the elliptical just to

590
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: give my opinion on the issue. She says, as recovering interrexic,

591
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 1: I spent most of high school dieting myself to a

592
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 1: very unhealthy b M. I I was able to break

593
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: away from the disease in part by making dieting a

594
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 1: feminist issue in my own life. Every time I saw

595
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: a calorie count go above six hundred in a day,

596
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: I justified it by using the battle cry, and I

597
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: will take out the exclutive here, screw the patriarchy. A

598
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 1: few years have passed and I finally feel secure enough

599
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: with myself to be able to look at diet and

600
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: exercise a bit more objectively. While I still refused to

601
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: diet for weight loss, I find that daily exercise helps

602
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: me in a number of ways beyond making me fit

603
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: into my skinny jeans. I feel more relaxed, a better sleep,

604
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: and even have clearer skin. When I work out for

605
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: even just thirty minutes a day. Besides, it gives me

606
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: a great opportunity to listen to folks like you on

607
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: a regular basis. So in summery, while I tend to

608
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: disapprove of women dieting just to get skinny because I

609
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: worry about them slipping down the same rabbit hole that

610
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: I did, I think that women and all should always

611
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 1: do whatever makes them feel like the best version of themselves.

612
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: Here here indeed, so thank you Kendra and John and

613
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: everyone else who has written into us. Moms Stuff at

614
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is where you can send your letters,

615
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: or you can head over to Facebook and start a

616
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 1: conversation there and like us. While you're at it, you

617
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: can tweet us at Mom's Stuff podcast, and you can

618
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: also tumble with us on Tumbler Stuff Mom Never Told

619
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: You dot tumbler dot com. And again, huge thanks to

620
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: Emily Matcher for taking the time to chat with us

621
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: about New Domesticity and her new book, Homeward Bound. Please

622
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: check it out, And as always, if you would like

623
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: to get a little smarter this week, you can head

624
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 1: over to our website, it is how Stuff Works dot

625
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

626
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: Does it, how stuff works, dot com