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Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Where to where one's flaws on your face, where they

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Speaker 2: can never be concealed, or inside a mirrored bathroom cabinet

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Speaker 2: where they grow more shameful with each hidden moment. Where

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Speaker 2: to handle those flaws in the light of day or

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Speaker 2: in the gauzy dimness of a feminine bathroom. What to

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Speaker 2: do with the burden of being human?

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Speaker 1: That's Alison landa writer, editor, teacher, coach, and author of

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Speaker 1: the recent memoir Bearded Lady. Allison's is a story of triumph,

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Speaker 1: the triumph of an indomitable spirit over gaslighting, questionable parenting,

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Speaker 1: and a complex journey towards self acceptance and self love.

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Speaker 1: I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is family Secrets. The secrets

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Speaker 1: that are kept from us, the secrets we keep from others,

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Speaker 1: and the secrets we keep from ourselves. Tell me about

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Speaker 1: the landscape of your childhood.

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Speaker 2: I spent my childhood and a home that was way overblown,

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Speaker 2: completely high on its own square footage, and incredibly wounded inside.

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Speaker 2: And that's probably no accident. It was a custom home,

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Speaker 2: it was built by my family, and it looked decent

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Speaker 2: on the outside. I don't want to say fabulous, because

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Speaker 2: the landscaping was completely out of control. It was completely weedy,

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Speaker 2: and it showed its flaws on the outside, but really

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Speaker 2: you had to come in to see just how flawed

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Speaker 2: it was on the inside. The carpets were staying. There

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Speaker 2: was an entire room without carpet that had been flooded

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Speaker 2: that my parents never replaced the carpet in. And yet

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Speaker 2: there were many many touches that were very interesting. They

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Speaker 2: used all the materials of the time, all the right

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Speaker 2: materials of the time. There was marrol, there was granted,

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Speaker 2: there was cherrywood, all the things that you were supposed

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Speaker 2: to put into a home of that size and that stature.

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Speaker 2: But I feel that you can completely overlook that for

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Speaker 2: all its flaws.

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Speaker 1: And this home was also on the edge of a winery.

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Speaker 2: Correct, It's on the edge of the Bernardo Winery in

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Speaker 2: North San Diego County. In that part of the world,

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Speaker 2: especially before a lot of more homes were built, the

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Speaker 2: coyotes were everywhere. I mean, that was the background to

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Speaker 2: my childhood. I would hear that, and we had a

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Speaker 2: dog and we knew to keep her inside. Dogs disappeared,

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Speaker 2: cats disappeared, Every small thing disappeared because coyotes kind of

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Speaker 2: ran rampant and we heard them constantly.

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Speaker 1: Now, your mother, who you have a nickname for, now

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Speaker 1: had a name for the house. The house had a

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Speaker 1: name and also a style.

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Speaker 2: The home was called just to Lago and it was

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Speaker 2: the first two letters of everybody in our house. There

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Speaker 2: was Joan, Steve, Adam, Allison, Jonathan, and she called it

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Speaker 2: a French country castle. I think she was reading a

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Speaker 2: lot of architectural digest at that point, and I think

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Speaker 2: she really liked that little detail. Oh nail, nail is

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Speaker 2: my goodness? How to begin? My mother is larger than

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Speaker 2: life in so many ways. At first I adored her.

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Speaker 2: She was somebody who I felt the world wounded and

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Speaker 2: the world really hadn't justified its experience to her, if

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Speaker 2: that makes any sense. Basically, I felt that she didn't

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Speaker 2: get a fair shaken life. She didn't want kids, that

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Speaker 2: was pretty clear. She had wanted children. She wanted to

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Speaker 2: be free, she wanted to go to India, she wanted

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Speaker 2: to experience the world, and said she had kids because

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Speaker 2: that's what my father wanted. And I felt sorry for

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Speaker 2: her for that. I felt sorry for her for being

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Speaker 2: in a marriage that was very, very obviously flawed. I

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Speaker 2: also looked up to her. She was somebody who to

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Speaker 2: me was beautiful and smart and all the things that

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Speaker 2: I hoped to be as a child.

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Speaker 1: Did you know as a child that Nails hadn't wanted kids?

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Speaker 2: I did. She told me, she said, I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to have kids. Your father forced me to have children.

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Speaker 2: And it was very very clear. It was just like yup,

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Speaker 2: did not want to have kids, never wanted it.

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Speaker 1: Why did you call her nails?

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Speaker 2: She was really really into her nails, or her grooming

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Speaker 2: of her nails, her cake nails. I mean at the time,

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Speaker 2: I think lee pressons were very much the fashion, and

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Speaker 2: she did that. But she also would go and get

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Speaker 2: her nails done and they were be they were very

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Speaker 2: well groomed. She kept them such and they were just

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Speaker 2: so much a part of her. But I also called

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Speaker 2: her nails because they really represented a part of her personality,

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Speaker 2: very sharp and very dangerous, and you didn't want to

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Speaker 2: mess with them too much. They would cut You.

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Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about your father, who you

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Speaker 1: have the nickname for of the rooster.

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Speaker 2: Rooster is very proud of himself, especially as when I

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Speaker 2: was a child who was very proud of what he

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Speaker 2: did for a living as an engineer. He actually did

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Speaker 2: GPS for a very long time, very very proud of that,

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Speaker 2: but also proud of things like frequent fire miles. He

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Speaker 2: would brad to us when we were young about his

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Speaker 2: freaking fire miles, and that made absolutely no sense to us.

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Speaker 2: But we learned to nod and smile. That was just

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Speaker 2: something that we did, and I think with my father

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Speaker 2: that's a very important lesson nodding and smiling and saying yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: because he doesn't really listen to what he's told. He

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Speaker 2: listens to what he says, and that's really about it.

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Speaker 1: What did the frequent flyer miles represent to him?

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Speaker 2: They represented cash and cachet. He's a collector in a sense.

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Speaker 2: He checked his bank balance three times a day. He

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Speaker 2: was big on collecting money. But I think it was

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Speaker 2: the collection and the accumulation of which he was very proud.

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Speaker 2: Hotel points were the same thing. He was very very

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Speaker 2: into that, and the more he got, the more he

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Speaker 2: enjoyed talking about it. We didn't understand that that wasn't

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Speaker 2: the case for everybody. We just thought everybody's father talked

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Speaker 2: about their frequent flyer miles and their hotel points, and

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Speaker 2: again we just nodded and smiled the whole heck of

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Speaker 2: a lot. As far as I know, there were never

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Speaker 2: money issues. There were responsibility issues. My parents sort of

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Speaker 2: would bat it back and forth, almost like a volleyball.

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Speaker 2: It's your job, No, it's your job, it's your job,

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Speaker 2: and things did not get addressed, and what happened was

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Speaker 2: that they became normalized. We felt that everybody had a

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Speaker 2: floor in their home that was not covered with carpet,

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Speaker 2: everybody had stained carpets. Everybody had these things, and they

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Speaker 2: just became part of our lives. And I believe that

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Speaker 2: my parents fell subject to that as well, where it

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Speaker 2: was just like, this is just how we live.

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Speaker 1: That's so interesting. So the dysfunction, there weren't external reasons

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Speaker 1: for it.

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Speaker 2: It was all internal, very much so, and that's a

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Speaker 2: good way to put it. It was very internal. It

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Speaker 2: was very internally driven. And if you look at something

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Speaker 2: often enough, it just becomes part of what you're used

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Speaker 2: to seeing. And I think that the state of the

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Speaker 2: home became part of what we were used to seeing

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Speaker 2: and what they were used to seeing. I had gone

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Speaker 2: to an orthodontist and I had a plaster cast made

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Speaker 2: up my jaw, and it sat on the dining room

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Speaker 2: table like some sort of art object. We never did

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Speaker 2: anything with it. I never got my teeth fixed. It

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Speaker 2: was the same thing. We just it became normalized.

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Speaker 1: That is such a great detail. By the time Allison

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Speaker 1: turns ten, the challenges no longer just live inside her home.

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Speaker 1: Her own body begins to present challenges too. She's nearing

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Speaker 1: puberty and she's changing. She isn't really conscious of the

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Speaker 1: changes right away until one day she is.

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Speaker 2: I remember the exact moment. I was sitting on the

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Speaker 2: floor of the school's multipurpose room, and I could tell

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Speaker 2: that the back of my shirt had ridden up slightly.

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Speaker 2: And the reason that I knew that was because I

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Speaker 2: heard laughter. And when somebody's laughing, you can tell there

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Speaker 2: was something. There's something about that that you can tell

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Speaker 2: that that laughter is pointed at you. And I heard

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Speaker 2: them say the animal. They were laughing and pointing, and

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Speaker 2: I hadn't realized that I had hair there on the

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Speaker 2: lower part of my back. I just had not realized that.

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Speaker 2: And it was something that came into my consciousness, almost

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Speaker 2: like the coyotes did outside of my window. It was

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Speaker 2: like once they were not there, and then they were.

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Speaker 2: They were howling, and I just became very, very aware

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Speaker 2: that this was about me, This was pointed toward me,

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Speaker 2: and that they were laughing at me. And after that

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Speaker 2: I became so aware that there was so much on

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Speaker 2: which to be judged well.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting too that your first realization that you

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Speaker 1: had hair on that part of your body was accompanied by,

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Speaker 1: or was you know, caused by being made fun of,

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Speaker 1: So you know, it's sort of like a shame sandwich.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's a great way to put it. It was

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Speaker 2: just a shame sandwich. And I knew immediately this is

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Speaker 2: not okay. Sometimes people's reactions do you tell you something

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Speaker 2: about yourself, And the reaction I was receiving told me

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Speaker 2: this is not right. I'm a girl, right, I'm not

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Speaker 2: supposed to grow hair here, am I? And at that

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Speaker 2: point I realized it wasn't just there. It was on

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Speaker 2: my arms, it was all over my body, it was

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Speaker 2: on my face. The realization dawned on me in that

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Speaker 2: moment so quickly, My god, what is going on with me?

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Speaker 2: And you know, later on I thought, did they do

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Speaker 2: me a favor by calling this out to me, what

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Speaker 2: would have happened if I had never realized it, And

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Speaker 2: would that have been a good thing or a bad thing?

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Speaker 2: And I actually don't know. I went home and I

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Speaker 2: pulled up my shirt and I said, I got laughed

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Speaker 2: at today, and this is why there's something wrong. And

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Speaker 2: my mother's reaction was so interesting. It was like her

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Speaker 2: face was very blank, and I was, of course in tears.

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Speaker 2: It was something that I never expected would have happened

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Speaker 2: to me. And then when I realized this is not

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Speaker 2: just happening to me, this is who and what I am.

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Speaker 2: I needed her to help me, and I've started to

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Speaker 2: realize in that moment help is not afoot. This is

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Speaker 2: probably not going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Alison's mother does take her to a doctor fairly quickly,

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Speaker 1: and the doctor uses a word she's never heard before,

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Speaker 1: a word for what's going on with her here suit

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Speaker 1: Alison hears it, and her mother hears it too. The

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Speaker 1: doctor says, if this were my daughter, I would get

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Speaker 1: on this immediately. He writes some lab orders for blood work,

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Speaker 1: but when Alison and her mother leave the doctor's office,

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Speaker 1: her mother says, let's get out of.

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Speaker 2: Here so we can take care of this ourselves, and

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Speaker 2: the lab slip disappeared, and along with the lab slip

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Speaker 2: went my hopes of getting treated medically at that point,

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Speaker 2: and I couldn't figure out why. I didn't understand why

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Speaker 2: she wanted to bring it in house as she did,

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Speaker 2: and why she would have brought me to the doctor

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Speaker 2: only to then turn around and ignore what he had

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Speaker 2: to say. And the word here suit I understood that immediately.

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Speaker 2: I understood what it meant, and I felt, honestly, I

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Speaker 2: don't think it's too dramatic to say life sentence. I

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Speaker 2: don't know that I have those words to put to it.

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Speaker 2: But I knew that I was in for something, and

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Speaker 2: it was going to be a big deal and something

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Speaker 2: that was going to define my life.

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Speaker 1: Have you come to realize what was going on with

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Speaker 1: your mother by on the one hand, taking you to

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Speaker 1: the doctor and on the other hand, rejecting what the

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Speaker 1: doctor had to say.

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Speaker 2: I've thought about this so much. What I've come to

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Speaker 2: realize is that she exercised her responsibility to the best

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Speaker 2: of her capability, which is to say, she took me

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Speaker 2: to the doctor. She couldn't go beyond that, she couldn't

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Speaker 2: continue to admit that something was wrong, something was wrong

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Speaker 2: with her daughter, and she couldn't put my care in

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Speaker 2: another person's hands. And in a way, I feel that

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Speaker 2: it was almost a protective urge. I can handle this,

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Speaker 2: this is my daughter. I can handle this. We don't

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Speaker 2: need to get lap tests. I can take care of it.

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Speaker 2: And that is Nails to a t. I can handle this.

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Speaker 2: I can do it. And I really believe that's what

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Speaker 2: it was. And in a way, I actually believed she

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Speaker 2: felt as though she was doing me a favor. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to spare her these invasive tests, all the things

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Speaker 2: that are going to come from this, all the things

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Speaker 2: that could come from this, we will handle it ourselves.

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Speaker 1: When Allison and her mom get home from the doctor's appointment,

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Speaker 1: Nails takes her into the bathroom and she sets her

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Speaker 1: up in the mirror with a razor and shaving cream.

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Speaker 1: She proceeds to show her daughter how to shave like

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Speaker 1: a man would.

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Speaker 2: She was very precise about it, and I can recall

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Speaker 2: her voice as she said, the sun will tan the

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Speaker 2: sides of your face evenly, it will hide the stubble.

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Speaker 2: I recall her saying that. I recall her showing me

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Speaker 2: how to use the razor, telling me how to position

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Speaker 2: my jaw, for example, so I could get a really

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Speaker 2: close cut. I mean things that you would expect a

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Speaker 2: man to do with a son, or a woman to

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Speaker 2: do with her son. But I was not her son,

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Speaker 2: and the difference there was overlooked. I can't fathom it.

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Speaker 2: But she did do exactly that. And I can picture

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Speaker 2: the bathroom, the green and pink motif that they had

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Speaker 2: in there, the exposed light bulbs with the they called

246
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Speaker 2: Hollywood lights. I can picture the phone that they had,

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Speaker 2: because we had phones in every room. I can picture

248
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Speaker 2: all of these things, and I picture the can of

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Speaker 2: barbisol that she used. I remember how hot it was

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Speaker 2: that day. I remember it all.

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Speaker 1: So then this becomes your routine and every day before

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Speaker 1: you go to school, this is your own private, your

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Speaker 1: own secret.

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Speaker 2: Practice that you do every day twice a day.

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Speaker 1: So before you go to school in the morning and

256
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Speaker 1: then when you come back after school exactly. But this

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Speaker 1: routine isn't really working in that it isn't protecting Alison

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Speaker 1: from shame. The kids at school are cruel, not all

259
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Speaker 1: of them, but many are. At that age, to be

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Speaker 1: different in any way is to be a target.

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Speaker 2: You know, they had a name for me. They had

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Speaker 2: a couple of names for me, as kids do. One

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Speaker 2: was the animal, one was the werewolf. I was the werewolf,

264
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Speaker 2: and that was what I heard walking down the hall.

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Speaker 2: And the animal was based on a kid's toy. There

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Speaker 2: was a commercial and it said nothing can stop the animal.

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Speaker 2: And they would say that nothing can stop the animal,

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Speaker 2: and I was the animal. I was the werewolf. I

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Speaker 2: was a thing. And I will say that that was

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Speaker 2: a minority of the students. There were some very cruel kids,

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Speaker 2: but there were also some wonderful kids. There were also

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Speaker 2: some kids who respected me, cared about me, treated me

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Speaker 2: with dignity and with love. I have to remember that

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Speaker 2: when I think about this. Otherwise there's just a whole

275
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Speaker 2: lot of sadness, but it is really balanced out by

276
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Speaker 2: remembering the good.

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Speaker 1: One friend, in particular, Missy, becomes essential to Allison's sanity

278
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Speaker 1: and sense of self. Missy is compassionate, she's caring and loyal.

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Speaker 1: She's also protective of Allison, willing to embrace, defend, and

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Speaker 1: accept her as she is. In Missy's eyes, Alison is

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Speaker 1: not an animal or a monster or a sing She's

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Speaker 1: just her, and to Missy, that's just perfect. The same compassion, however,

283
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 1: is not found within the walls of Alison's home. Nails

284
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,600
Speaker 1: is still refusing to pursue medical treatment for her daughter,

285
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Speaker 1: and on top of this, she and Rooster are fighting

286
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Speaker 1: more and more. Their marriage seems to be falling apart,

287
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Speaker 1: and Nails is very forthcoming with her kids about her

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Speaker 1: feelings about their dad. Perhaps two forthcoming.

289
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Speaker 2: She told us about their sex life. She told us

290
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Speaker 2: about the fact that my father wanted to worry to

291
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,560
Speaker 2: watch Doctor Ruth with him, and she would to do it.

292
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Speaker 2: She told us about all the things that he held

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Speaker 2: against her. She told us about all the things that

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Speaker 2: she felt she was a victim because of how he

295
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 2: treated her. All these ways, I was confident by the

296
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,960
Speaker 2: time time I was five or six. I think the

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00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,480
Speaker 2: fractice between the two of them really defined the households,

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Speaker 2: and it really defined our intrinsic tension. And in a way,

299
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Speaker 2: though it was never outright said, it was considered selfish

300
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Speaker 2: to advocate for oneself. You would just never think to

301
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 2: do it. You would never think to ask for something

302
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,119
Speaker 2: because my parents were too busy fighting and fighting as

303
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Speaker 2: a full time job when it comes to my family,

304
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Speaker 2: and you know, you don't have any room for extracurriculars.

305
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 2: And I fell under the umbrella of extracurriculars. I was

306
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:44,639
Speaker 2: not that person whose medical needs were addressed because it

307
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,320
Speaker 2: interfered with the busy work of them fighting. And they

308
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,639
Speaker 2: thought about everything. They thought about whether Jim Nabors was gay,

309
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,199
Speaker 2: they thought about whether Billy Joel was Jewish, and I

310
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Speaker 2: mean it was unbelievable, the minutia about which they would argue.

311
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Speaker 2: But they also argued about more serious things, of course,

312
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:10,840
Speaker 2: and it was just it raged and the sheer spectrum

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Speaker 2: of topics that they could get into it about or

314
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 2: just mind boggling, And in the meantime, the kids were

315
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,520
Speaker 2: just on the sideline and we really we weren't heard

316
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Speaker 2: or seen. My father was a domestic violence perpetrator. He

317
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,119
Speaker 2: didn't do it often, but of course, as we know,

318
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Speaker 2: once is too much, and I knew that. I knew

319
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,199
Speaker 2: when he hit my mother that was unacceptable, and I

320
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,879
Speaker 2: couldn't say or do anything about it. Was I was

321
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Speaker 2: completely sidelined. But there was also violence that came from

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Speaker 2: my mother. There was slapping, there was throwing. I remember

323
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Speaker 2: at one point my father was furious about something and

324
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 2: he up ended the dinner table and the floor was

325
00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,439
Speaker 2: sticky with lemonade for days afterward, no one cleaned it up.

326
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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. In nineteen ninety, Allison's parents separate

327
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Speaker 1: and divorce. Her dad moves out, and Nails stays in

328
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Speaker 1: the house. The house is very important to her and

329
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Speaker 1: she'll do anything to hold on to it. Nails also

330
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Speaker 1: becomes involved with a younger man named Bill.

331
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Speaker 2: They became very, very strange. It was her taking care

332
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Speaker 2: of his every need, her bending to his will, and

333
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 2: her giving him everything she thought he needed. And once again,

334
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 2: the kids were sidelined in this effort. My father knew

335
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,159
Speaker 2: about him and was furious and couldn't do anything. There

336
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 2: was nothing that could be done about it. The dynamic

337
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 2: of the household now was my mother and Bill, and

338
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 2: that's what defined the household. And the household was defined

339
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,120
Speaker 2: by the places where they would sit wrapped in conversation.

340
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 2: You did not interrupt them, you did not talk to them.

341
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 2: They were busy, same as my parents were busy fighting,

342
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 2: My mother and Bill were busy being my mother and Bill.

343
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Speaker 2: By the time Bill's in the picture, Allison is about

344
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Speaker 2: seventeen and she's eager to leave home. She's applying to colleges.

345
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 2: She knows she does not want to stay in this

346
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: chaotic environment, now made even more chaotic because of Bill's

347
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:42,400
Speaker 2: disposition and his footprint. It was so painful to come

348
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 2: in the house and see all the vestiges of this

349
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:52,120
Speaker 2: person who didn't care about us. There was no attempt

350
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 2: to get to know the kids. He was basically there

351
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 2: for the goodies, for the pool, for the master bedroom,

352
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,880
Speaker 2: which he claimed. He wasn't interested in us, and we

353
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 2: were not interested in him. We just wanted him out,

354
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 2: and he was not leaving, so I knew I needed

355
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 2: to get out. Once my mother and Bill left the house,

356
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: and I could see them walking around in the winery.

357
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 2: They could see them walking together, talking as they always did,

358
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 2: and I looked at them. It couldn't have been for

359
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 2: more than ten to fifteen seconds, but sometimes life just freezes,

360
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 2: and in that moment, I thought, I'm done. I'm fucking done.

361
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 2: And I looked around. I was in the master bedroom.

362
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 2: I had been snooping in the master bedroom, and I saw.

363
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Speaker 1: The pig because grown people have piggy banks.

364
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 2: Apparently, and I saw the baseball bet and talk about

365
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 2: going together like peanut butter and jelly, and it was

366
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 2: like somebody else had picked that bat up and slammed

367
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 2: and slammed and slammed until it was all over. And

368
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 2: there was a heck a lot of money in there,

369
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 2: and I took it. I knew I was going to

370
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 2: get caught, and I think that part of me wanted

371
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 2: to be caught, because part of me was like, you're

372
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,719
Speaker 2: going to see me, you will see me, and I

373
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 2: will be I will make myself seen. But I think

374
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Speaker 2: that the overarching thing was I wanted to take something.

375
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Speaker 2: Something so much has been taken from me, and I

376
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 2: wanted to take something. My stability, my security such as

377
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 2: it was with my parents being as they were, had

378
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: been stolen from me and there was nothing I could do.

379
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 2: But still the coins and the dollars that lay before me,

380
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 2: and that was money was a very very important thing

381
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 2: in my home, in the place where I grew up,

382
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 2: and that represented something to me, and so I knew

383
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 2: darn well I was going to get caught. But in

384
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 2: the moment, I just grabbed, grabbed and grabbed, and then

385
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 2: I ran.

386
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Speaker 1: And what happens when nails does catch you and confronts you.

387
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 2: I was told pack a bed and go I don't

388
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 2: care where you have to sleep. I don't care if

389
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: you sleep in the park. You are going to get out,

390
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 2: and you are going to get out right now. So

391
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 2: I called a friend and she picked me up. My

392
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 2: mother said to me, I will call the police and

393
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: have you escorted from this house. You will get out.

394
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 2: You stole money, and you will get out of the

395
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 2: house right now. So I really had no choice in

396
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 2: the matter.

397
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: So, Allison, what.

398
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 2: Did you.

399
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: Feel like in this liminal time between living under your

400
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 1: parents roof and then, you know, heading to college, which,

401
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: as you point out, is a kind of waystation between

402
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 1: childhood and adulthood. You had people who were amazing to you,

403
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,959
Speaker 1: and then people who were misguided in the way that

404
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: they tried to help, and then people who were just

405
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: downright cruel. What was your feeling about yourself as you

406
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: were sort of entering college.

407
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 2: I liked myself. I was a very likable narrator, and

408
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: I wanted the best for myself. I was not interested

409
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 2: in settling for the shit that was around me, and

410
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: I felt that moving forward into a new world, a

411
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: new experience, and something that I could define on my

412
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 2: own terms was the way to go something It really

413
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 2: defines My memory of that time is how hot, how

414
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 2: bloody hot, the northern San Diego County can get. And

415
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: I remember moving very slowly in that heat and feeling

416
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: like I'm trapped, How am I ever going to get out?

417
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 2: But knowing that I had to. It was like there

418
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,479
Speaker 2: was It was almost as if something had blown up

419
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 2: behind me, and there was a heat at my back

420
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 2: and it was pushing me, and it was pushing me

421
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 2: out of that place. And I liked myself enough to

422
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 2: know that I needed to save myself.

423
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: Alison finally does escape that place. She makes her way

424
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: to college. It's nineteen ninety two and she's in a

425
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: lecture hall, the kind with very small seats with little

426
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: floating desks attached to them. Alison can't sit in these seats.

427
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: She's overweight, and though she doesn't know it at the time,

428
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: weight retention is part of her syndrome. Another student named

429
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 1: Carol approaches Alison when she sees she can't fit in

430
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: the chair. Carol says, do you ever feel like a freak?

431
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: But she's not saying this to be mean. She's saying

432
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: this because she feels this way too. She and Alison

433
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: immediately connect and become fast friends.

434
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 2: I think somehow she's zero done on me. And sometimes

435
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: you see somebody and you see that they share something

436
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 2: that you have, and I think she saw that, and

437
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: it was really liberating to hear that, especially at a

438
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 2: place like you see Santa Barbara, where I've often said

439
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 2: that eighty percent clones and twenty percent amazing people. There

440
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: are a lot of beautiful, beautiful people in Santa Barbara,

441
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 2: and neither Carol nor I fit in there literally, figuratively, metaphorically,

442
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 2: however you want to put it. And I think we

443
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 2: really recognize that in each other. I think her thing

444
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 2: was that emotionally she was very, very mature, almost a

445
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: little too much so, and I think it felt like

446
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: she really just wasn't understood by the people around her.

447
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,959
Speaker 2: And she certainly felt like that in high school and

448
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: in college. I think she came to college hoping that

449
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: there would be something different and she didn't find it.

450
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 2: But in terms of physicality, she fit in. She was thin,

451
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 2: and to my eyes, she was beautiful. She had luminous

452
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 2: blue eyes and dark hair, and she was gorgeous. I

453
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 2: don't know if you realize how well she fit in,

454
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: but she was a lovely girl.

455
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 1: That's so interesting because there are so many different ways

456
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: of feeling like a freak, and so many different kinds

457
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: of behaviors and secrets and secret lives and secret shames

458
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: that most of us, in one way or another have,

459
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: and that it doesn't necessarily show itself on the surface exactly.

460
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: It's how are you weird in the world? And Carol

461
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: saw that. She saw that I was weird in the

462
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: world in a different way than she was, and I

463
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: think there was a draw there. And I've been drawn

464
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: to people like that as well, people who I could tell, Hey,

465
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: you've got something. And what I came to realize is

466
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: everyone does. I think at that pulloint in my life,

467
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: I came to realize that I wasn't the only one

468
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 2: who felt weird in the world and felt like a freak.

469
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: And she really helped me to understand that.

470
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: Carol also luminates something else for Allison, another way in

471
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: which her parents failed her. Carol mentions that she has

472
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: an appointment to see her gynecologist, and Alison doesn't even

473
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: know what that is because she's never been to a gynocologist.

474
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: She hasn't seen a doctor of any kind since she

475
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: was fifteen, not a pediatrician, not a family doctor, not

476
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,959
Speaker 1: an internist. Her parents are educated people, people of means.

477
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: They were people who knew how to make the typical

478
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: doctor's appointments for their family, but they didn't.

479
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: The last doctor I had seen was a dentist, and

480
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: I remember feeling very very self conscious. Fortunately they did

481
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: not comment on any of my facial air, but I

482
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 2: remember feeling grateful that I didn't need to go to

483
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: the doctor and I didn't need to be exposed for

484
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: what I was. But I also thought, this isn't right.

485
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 2: There's something that's not right about this. And when when

486
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: she said that about going to the guydecologists, I had

487
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 2: never been examined in that way, and it scared the

488
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: hell out of me. At that point in my life,

489
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 2: my periods had already started disappearing, which is part of

490
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 2: the syndrome that I have. So I was like, well,

491
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 2: I'm sure I need to, but there's no way in

492
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 2: hell that I'm going to go and expose myself that way.

493
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: And I remember being very jealous that she had the

494
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 2: internal strength to do something as mundane as go to

495
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: a doctor's appointment.

496
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: Do you think that the reason why your parents didn't

497
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: have you do this sort of annual well visit to

498
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: pediatrician or things that were usual. Was simply neglect or

499
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: do you think that it was that if a pediatrician

500
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: really were to take a look at you, they would

501
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: have to say, you know, to your parents, look there's

502
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: really something going on here that needs to be addressed.

503
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: I think that they did not want that call to act.

504
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: I think it was that malicious. And I mean, my

505
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: parents couldn't clean lemonade up off the floor, they couldn't

506
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: water the lawn. They share as hell, we're gonna pursue

507
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: treatment for their daughter. I mean, that was just not

508
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 2: going to happen. I think they weren't interested in having

509
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 2: to pursue that. And I think they knew that if

510
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 2: they were to take me to the doctor, this is

511
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: something that was very obviously going to come up, and

512
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: they didn't want to deal with it. And I think

513
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 2: maybe they wrapped it in the idea of, oh, we'll

514
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: do it later, we'll take care of this later, and

515
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 2: I think you can later yourself to death, and I

516
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: think that's what they did.

517
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: But Allison isn't going to later herself to death. She's

518
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: still in college. When she realizes that later has become

519
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: Now she searches for a specialist who she just picks

520
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: at random from the yellow pages, but it turns out

521
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: to be a good pick. The doctor she saw many

522
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: years earlier, the one whose advice Nails refused to take.

523
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: This doctor tells her that she has something called heresuitism,

524
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: an extreme case. He suggests labs, and though historically Allison

525
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: has felt shame about going to the doctor, she's emboldened

526
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: and she agrees to follow up with lab work. When

527
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: the tests come back, he gives her even more information

528
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: a diagnosis. Beyond heresuitism, she has something called congenital adrenal hyperplasia.

529
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: To have this diagnosis is huge. To have this diagnosis

530
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: is to unlock the secret of herself that had been

531
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: concealed and unknown for so long. The doctor puts her

532
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: on a treatment plan. Then he asks if she'd be

533
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: willing to be photographed from the neck down for a

534
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: textbook As she is, He says, a textbook case.

535
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: That was the first time that I had heard the

536
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: name of what was wrong with me, And there was

537
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: something so liberating about that there was a diagnosis, there

538
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: was a name. It wasn't just a thing. It was

539
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: a name, but the wind went right out of my sales.

540
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 2: When I was asked to be in a textbook, I

541
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: just I remember sitting there in this office looking at

542
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: him and just blinking, and I think I said something

543
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: to the degree of I'll think about it, vowing never

544
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: ever to do it. There was no way neck down

545
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: or not, no means of identification or not. There was

546
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: no way in hell that I was going to appear

547
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: in a textbook again. It was making me into a thing,

548
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: into a case, and I couldn't bear that.

549
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, into the animal. Exactly how long do you stay

550
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: on a treatment plan before you go? You know what,

551
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: This just isn't working, and it's expensive and it's time consuming,

552
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't have the insurance for it,

553
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: and I'm just not going to do it anymore.

554
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: I'm going to say something on the order of six months.

555
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 2: Every month, I would go buy my bottles of hope

556
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: and I would take my pills and it wasn't doing anything.

557
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 2: My levels were going down, and they kept telling me, like,

558
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 2: your levels are taking a fall, this is wonderful, this

559
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: is great. But I was still shaving twice a day.

560
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 2: I still had hair all over my body. What the

561
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: hell good were my levels if I was still wearing

562
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 2: out the bit. I mean, I just couldn't. I couldn't

563
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: see continuing with this.

564
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment with more family secrets.

565
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: Allison graduates from college. She leaves California and begins her

566
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: life as a working young adult, trying to navigate her syndrome,

567
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: her relationships, and her identity. She still struggles with her medication.

568
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: She's not really in touch with her parents or her brothers,

569
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: and she begins having relationships with men, which triggers many

570
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: long held insecurities and fears. As she strives to feel

571
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: comfortable in her skin, she fears how partners will view

572
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: her body.

573
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 2: I got a job as an editor at the North

574
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 2: Platte Telegraph in North Platte, Nebraska, which is exactly the

575
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 2: inverse of Santa Barbara, California. I mean, it's everything that

576
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 2: you would picture in the rural Midwest. And I was

577
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: there and I was still taking the medication when I

578
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 2: went there, and I had to get it refilled, and

579
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: I called a pharmacist and he said, well, this must

580
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 2: be for your husband, and I said, no, it's for me.

581
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: And he was very confused and it's hurts so much

582
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: that even somebody in the medical professions, I mean by

583
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 2: me that it just it took away all of my

584
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: desire to continue with this. And I just said, you know,

585
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 2: forget it and hung up and I did not take

586
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 2: that medication again. I was like, I am done. I

587
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: was losing steam on it anyway, and having this pharmacist

588
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 2: to say that was kind of the nail and the

589
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 2: coffin for the medication. At that point, I was so scared.

590
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 2: I was unable to really have intercourse. It was terrified.

591
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: Everything in me just tightened up. And I had an

592
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 2: experience with a man who was incredibly cruel about my body.

593
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 2: But he was not just incredibly cruel, but he would

594
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 2: be both incredibly cruel and then incredibly kind. It would

595
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: say something lovely about my voice, my hands, my face,

596
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 2: and then he would just say like and you have

597
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 2: the hairriest little last, with a big smile on his face.

598
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 2: And this is somebody who actually claimed he wanted a relationship.

599
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: And I ran the hell away from that. I ran

600
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: from it as fast as I could because I didn't

601
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 2: like being alone. I wanted a relationship. I didn't know

602
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: that I could extend the emotional commitment that it would

603
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 2: take to be in a relationship. But I sure wanted

604
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: to try. That said, I had seen enough in my

605
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 2: own house. I had seen enough abuse to recognize what

606
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: that was. And at that point I was still quite young,

607
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 2: but I understood abuse when I heard it and saw it,

608
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 2: and I ran from him and didn't look back.

609
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: Well, that's such a saving grace, Allison, because sometimes the

610
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: opposite happens, right, Sometimes abuse is the only thing that

611
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: somebody knows. It's sort of the ground of their childhood,

612
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: so it feels familiar, and it returned to it, and

613
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: so you really had a lot of strength to just

614
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 1: know this is not going to be my life.

615
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 2: It was an instinct. It was like someone tapping me

616
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: on the knee and my foot just slamming up. I

617
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: couldn't make myself be with him. There was something in

618
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: me that said, do not do this. This is not

619
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 2: somebody you want to open yourself up to. And never

620
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 2: a regret, never looked back.

621
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: Some years pass and Alison moves back to California. She's

622
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: in Berkeley now and she's planning a trip to Europe.

623
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 1: Her good friend Matt, someone for whom she harbors romantic feelings.

624
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: Lives there and she's excited to travel and to see him,

625
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 1: but she's feeling self conscious about her appearance. She decides

626
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: to give laser hair removal a try. This is a

627
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: big step for her, but she thinks it'll be a

628
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: good idea. She thinks it will make her feel better.

629
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 2: Oh, it's huge. It was basically me addressing the elephant

630
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,959
Speaker 2: in the room. This is what I have. I have

631
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 2: facial hair. This is what I have, and I'm going

632
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 2: to do something about it. Because I wanted to go

633
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,320
Speaker 2: to Europe and not worry about that. I wanted to

634
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 2: go to Europe looking good. I wanted to go to

635
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 2: Europe looking like a woman. And I went to a

636
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 2: clinic in Berkeley. Was actually right across from the Claremont Hotel,

637
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 2: which is a beautiful historic place, and it was just

638
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 2: a lovely part of town and I chose it for

639
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 2: that reason. It was like, well, it's in Claremont, it

640
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 2: must be good. And it was a hell of a

641
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: hack job. It took an hour. It hurt like nothing

642
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 2: else I had ever experienced before. And what happened was

643
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: I broke out in incredible folliculitis. It looked like acne,

644
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 2: and I remember thinking, my god, I look like the

645
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 2: elephant man. It was horrific, and I still had to shave.

646
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 2: It was it really was like shaving in a minefield.

647
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: I mean, it hurts so badly. And it happened two

648
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: days after I had the procedure, and that was exactly

649
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: when I was leaving to go to Europe. So I

650
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 2: spent my first days in Europe in Venice, terrified, alone

651
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 2: and in pain. And it was one of the worst

652
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 2: moments in my life.

653
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 1: And what happened with Matt because it sounds like there

654
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: was another sort of warning.

655
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 2: Oh. I showed up in Barcelona where we were going

656
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 2: to meet for New Year's and he had a girlfriend.

657
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 2: They were very early in their relationship. They were very

658
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 2: comfortable with each other, and they were very cute. And

659
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: I knew just by hearing him talk about it, just

660
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 2: by hearing him explain it to me, and I couldn't

661
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 2: bear seeing him with her, and I didn't see him.

662
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 2: I had come all that way and I didn't see him,

663
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 2: and I didn't want him to see me. I just

664
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 2: couldn't bear it.

665
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: So following this, you return to Berkeley, and how are

666
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: you feeling? I mean, the is just such a horrible

667
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: thing because you were trying to do something that was

668
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 1: going to make things better and it actually not only

669
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: didn't make things better, but briefly made things a whole

670
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: hell of a lot worse. And against that backdrop, you

671
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: also feel the loss of this friendship and the loss

672
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: of this hope of somebody that you have feelings for.

673
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: So when you return home, how are you doing? At

674
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: that point?

675
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 2: Ita was both really terrible and almost like a new beginning, like,

676
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: all right, you know what. I got my butt kicked. Romantically,

677
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 2: I dealt with the folliculitis, which when I was in

678
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 2: Europe I had taken care of it with Pedge Cortison,

679
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: and I was like, well, back to square one, but

680
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 2: I've learned some lessons here. And I had always been

681
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 2: a very strangely positive person, strangely optimistic, and I was optimistic.

682
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 2: I was like, well, this sucks. And I do remember

683
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 2: being on my couch for three weeks and getting strep

684
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: throad because I was love sick, so it wasn't you know,

685
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 2: everything is roses. But I also thought, well, I've got

686
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: to move on. This is so painful and so hurtful,

687
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: and yet this person who I cared about is half

688
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: a world away, and I really didn't have much contact

689
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: with him after that. I felt as though I either

690
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 2: needed to move forward or vegetate, and I was never

691
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 2: interested in vegetating. I wanted to just go on with

692
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 2: my life.

693
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: And that's just what Allison does. She goes on in

694
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 1: two thousand, she meets a man named Adam.

695
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: Adam came into my life when I worked at Bayer

696
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 2: Corporation here in Berkeley, and he was somebody who I

697
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 2: first became aware of on my very front first day

698
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 2: of work because I heard him talking to everybody and

699
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: I thought, oh god, he's going to come up to

700
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 2: me and small talk me to death. And that is

701
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 2: exactly what happened. The man drove me insane. He was

702
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,760
Speaker 2: talking about the most boring stuff that drove me. Baddy.

703
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 2: You know, your first day at work, you want to

704
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 2: be nice to somebody. But I just sort of smiled

705
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 2: at him and said, you know, I'm not a mourning person.

706
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: So he came back right at noon and said, well

707
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 2: it's noon, let's go to lunch. And I got to

708
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 2: know him in this way where we worked together. We

709
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 2: saw quite a bit of each other, and I grew

710
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 2: to respect and admire him who he was, somebody who

711
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: was kind and caring and open and all of those

712
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 2: things that I questioned in myself. Am I kind? Am

713
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 2: I caring? Am I open? I never felt that I

714
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 2: was open? So I recognized that at him, and it

715
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: drew me to him.

716
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: It also seems like his self presentation, his voice, the

717
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 1: impression that he made on you when you first met him,

718
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: you sort of felt some kind of kindredness with him.

719
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely the minute that I heard his voice, I thought,

720
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 2: my god, this is somebody who is the closest presentation

721
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 2: of oneself to me as I've ever seen. This is unbelievable,

722
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 2: I mean, and he was so open about it. I

723
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 2: get called ma'am on the phone. He said, that's straight up,

724
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 2: and I thought, my god, I get called sir in

725
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 2: the grocery store and I would never tell you that,

726
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 2: But he said it with a smile, because as he

727
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 2: told me early on, he said, I decided that I

728
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 2: didn't give a damn what anybody thought about me when

729
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 2: I was sixteen years old. It wasn't like a negative thing.

730
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 2: It wasn't an oppositional thing. It was a positive thing,

731
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: like I don't care. I'm going to move forward in

732
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 2: my life and I'm gonna speak my mind. And if

733
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 2: I do it in a voice that's higher than most guys,

734
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 2: well so what who cared? And that was incredibly refreshing

735
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: and incredibly exciting to me.

736
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: In addition to being a breath of fresh air for Allison,

737
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 1: Adam also challenges her, but again, this is a positive thing.

738
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: He encourages her to reflect on some of her behaviors,

739
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 1: helping her to realize her patterns. He notices and tells

740
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 1: her that it seems hard for her to be sincere.

741
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: As Adam models sincerity for Allison, she exercises her lifelong

742
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: defense mechanisms. I mean, how could she have gone through

743
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: her life without defense mechanisms. Her favorite is deflection, making

744
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: jokes around serious subjects, making light of things that actually

745
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: trouble her.

746
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 2: Oh he saw it, and he just nailed me on it,

747
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 2: and he was one hundred percent correct. I've always used

748
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: humor as a deflection mechanism. I've always used sort of

749
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 2: this cock eyed, edgy way to distract them. Please don't

750
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: see what I don't want you to see. Please don't

751
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 2: recognize what I don't want you to recognize. And it

752
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 2: was very hard for me to be sincere because sincerity

753
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: was vulnerability and Adam had embraced vulnerability and I hadn't

754
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 2: quite realized that until he really said that to me,

755
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 2: and I thought, my god, you are willing to be

756
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 2: vulnerable in this world. How I couldn't figure that out?

757
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. And it sounds like in the

758
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: beginning of your relationship with him, that gave you the

759
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: sense of hope or possibility or desire to once again

760
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 1: seek medical treatment. And when you make an appointment, Adam says,

761
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: do you want me to go with you? Radical?

762
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 2: Right? That was amazing. It blew my mind. You're going

763
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 2: to do what You're going to come with me? And

764
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 2: there was a part of me that was like, oh,

765
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: hell no, I do not want you to come with me.

766
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 2: And then there was the bigger part of me that

767
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 2: was like, please, I need you. And he was there

768
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 2: and I sat there and I filled out the medical

769
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 2: questionnaire and we goofed off and we laughed together, and

770
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 2: it was so very different than anything I'd ever experienced

771
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: in a medical office, you know, being knuckleheads together the

772
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 2: way that we always had been, and it really diffused

773
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 2: my fears and my worries. I was still very anxious,

774
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 2: of course, but I was able to do it. And

775
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 2: I was able to do it because he was by

776
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 2: my side.

777
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 1: Adam stays by her side. Soon they're engaged with support

778
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: from her partner and her doctor. She's now on a

779
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:00,479
Speaker 1: new and helpful treatment plan. She decides, despite her first

780
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: experience with the folipulitis, to try laser hair removal before

781
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: the wedding. Things are different now, and optimist that she is,

782
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: she's both hopeful and confident that this will be a

783
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: better experience.

784
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 2: What I hadn't understood before is that it took both parts.

785
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 2: It took being medically controlled and the cosmetic procedure to

786
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 2: really get the hair under control. It's like, Okay, my

787
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 2: levels are back down. I don't have the testosterone raging

788
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 2: through my system the way that I so often do.

789
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 2: Let's try this again, Let's give it another try, and

790
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 2: with Adam by my side, we went out to Walnut

791
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 2: Creek in beautiful suburban Bay Area and I did it.

792
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 2: It took I want to say, something like between ten

793
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,919
Speaker 2: and fifteen sessions to get it under control. It was

794
00:48:55,040 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 2: quite painful and a little stressful, but they made it

795
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 2: so manageable, and they gave us wine and that helped

796
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 2: a lot.

797
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 1: How did you feel on your wedding day?

798
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, that was the coolest day. It was.

799
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: It was so awesome. We were married at a restaurant

800
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 2: called Halfa de la Pause. There's a ceremony in the

801
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 2: Jewish tradition called you hood, and you go into a

802
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 2: space just to be alone with your partner. And there

803
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,240
Speaker 2: was an herb shop next door to Cafe de la Pause,

804
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 2: and they very kindly allowed us to do your hood

805
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 2: in there, and we went in together. And later the

806
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 2: guests said that they could hear me yelling I'm married.

807
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm married. No fucking way I'm married.

808
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I was just like I remember doing the

809
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 2: can can and in my dress, Like I was just

810
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 2: over the top because I just had married the coolest

811
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: person in the world. Why wouldn't I be happy? I was.

812
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 2: I was thrilled, and I kept thinking I was going

813
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 2: to cry, And I never cried that day because I

814
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 2: was just too damn happy to cry. I mean, it

815
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 2: was just it was beautiful day.

816
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 1: You talk about, you know, toward the end of the book,

817
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: you talk about the way that people very possibly well meaning,

818
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: but nonetheless people trying to fix things over the years,

819
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: trying to make things sort of be okay in this

820
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: way that was really really not helpful because what it

821
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 1: was doing was basically telling you that you should be

822
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: different or that you are fixable. It sounds to me

823
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: like Adam was so completely accepting and in love with

824
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: you this, getting the medical treatment, having the laser hair removal,

825
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: it was something that you wanted to do because this

826
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: mattered to you. You wanted to move through the world

827
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: in a different way, and you wanted to get rid

828
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,760
Speaker 1: of the hair, and that mattered to you, not because

829
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:07,240
Speaker 1: it was some societal norm or thing or standard of beauty,

830
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 1: but really because this was messing with how you wanted

831
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: to feel.

832
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:17,280
Speaker 2: About yourself exactly. I was not interested in the billboards,

833
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 2: the trumpeted, you know, hairless as perfect. I wasn't interested

834
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 2: in the social mores. I was interested in feeling okay

835
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 2: when I walked in a room, and I trusted my

836
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 2: gut on that. And I am well aware that it

837
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:34,240
Speaker 2: could seem when somebody does something like this, when somebody

838
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 2: has a pretty radical cosmetic procedure, oh you know, they're

839
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 2: bending to societal will. Oh No, that wasn't the case

840
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 2: for me. I knew that I wanted to get rid

841
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 2: of this meeting the facial hair so that I could

842
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,760
Speaker 2: move through the world in a way that felt unimpeded

843
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 2: by something so dramatic, and that came entirely internally. Absolutely.

844
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 1: Here's Allison reading one more passage from her powerful memoir

845
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: Bearded Lady.

846
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 2: If you told me in the beginning that it would

847
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 2: take years to figure out even how to fight, I

848
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 2: might have shrugged and given up from the start, as

849
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,399
Speaker 2: it was. Finding the right combination meant spinning the lock

850
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 2: over and over. You could have told me that, and

851
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 2: I might have believed you, Or maybe not. It could

852
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 2: be that this was something I had to discover on

853
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: my own, through fits and starts, giving up hope and

854
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 2: picking it back up once more, running into walls before

855
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: finding what looked like the right path. Even now, I'm

856
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 2: still holding my breath.

857
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. Molly's Acur is

858
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: the story editor and Dylan Fagan is the executive producer.

859
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 1: If you have a family secret you'd like to share,

860
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: please leave us a voicemail and your story could appear

861
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: on an upcoming episode. Our number is one eight eight

862
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 1: eight Secret zero. That's the number zero. You can also

863
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: find me on Instagram at Danny Ryder and if you'd

864
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: like to know more about the story that inspired this podcast,

865
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: check out my memoir Inheritance. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.