Speaker 1: Pushkin. Daniel Kessler grew up between London, Paris and DC,
Speaker 1: listening to his older brother's early UK punk and rock records.
Speaker 2: He picked up guitar.
Speaker 1: As a teenager the same day he quit skateboarding, and
Speaker 1: after moving to New York in the late nineties, set
Speaker 1: out to find musicians serious enough to start a band.
Speaker 1: Fast forward more than two decades later, Kessler remains the
Speaker 1: musical architect of the band Interpol, right in the foundation
Speaker 1: of the band's songs, often alone on a classical guitar
Speaker 1: before bringing them to his bandmates. The band has now
Speaker 1: made eight albums together, and their latest Demera Waste a Ton,
Speaker 1: is their first record made in New York in more
Speaker 1: than a decade. On today's episode, Lea Rose talks with
Speaker 1: Daniel Kesler about making the new album, the early days
Speaker 1: when Interpol played to almost nobody, a chance encounter with
Speaker 1: David Bowie before his show at Hammersteen Ballroom, in the
Speaker 1: creative routines, guitar, coffee and films that have kept him
Speaker 1: writing for nearly three gades. This is broken record, real musicians,
Speaker 1: real conversations. Here's Lea Rhodes with Daniel Kessler.
Speaker 3: I'm curious about the title of the new album, This
Speaker 3: Mirror Waste a Ton. It reminds me of the Public
Speaker 3: Enemy album The suziets a Ton. Does it have anything
Speaker 3: to do with that or is that just coincidence?
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, that's amazing.
Speaker 4: I wish I could say firmative on that one, but
Speaker 4: I don't think it does. I well, ask all about
Speaker 4: that in case it was somehow. You know, he really
Speaker 4: thinks of everything, and he's a massive hip hop fan,
Speaker 4: so it'd be amazing if that was actually some sort
Speaker 4: of subtext or something like that, or some conscious sort
Speaker 4: of decision. But I don't think so, because we you know,
Speaker 4: we cycled through several options before we landed on that one,
Speaker 4: and as soon as that one became a candidate or
Speaker 4: you know, just an idea, I think right there and
Speaker 4: then I was.
Speaker 2: I was sold right away. I was like, oh, not
Speaker 2: really have this one? I was.
Speaker 4: I was so in love with it. I really felt
Speaker 4: like on my listeners, really like what we've we've been
Speaker 4: going through this journey just to arrive at this title.
Speaker 3: So tell me the story of how this album started
Speaker 3: and how it came together and just how logistically you
Speaker 3: all work together at this point, because I think you're
Speaker 3: living in different countries, right.
Speaker 2: We are. I mean, you know, you know both Paul
Speaker 2: and I.
Speaker 4: Paul is predominatly in Berlin, still is a place in
Speaker 4: New York, and I spent my time between Barcelona and
Speaker 4: New York. Sam still in the States, and Brad the
Speaker 4: who played based on this record is in New York.
Speaker 4: But you know, we're still like a New York band,
Speaker 4: and we predominantly converge in New York. To Wright, it's
Speaker 4: been a miss since we had recorded New York until
Speaker 4: this our latest record, So that was sort of a
Speaker 4: wonderful homecoming and something great to do. And it's kind
Speaker 4: of crazy that it's been ten years. But so essentially,
Speaker 4: usually the songs begin with me. I'll just write at
Speaker 4: home on a classical guitar or sometimes on the piano
Speaker 4: as well, and then we'll get together and then we'll
Speaker 4: make them into interpol pieces of music together and so forth.
Speaker 4: So actually, the first time that we did get together
Speaker 4: in such capacity was really when we had already decided
Speaker 4: that we wanted to work with Andrew Wyatt, the producer
Speaker 4: who was a longtime friend to most of us separately,
Speaker 4: and Paul had worked with him on a track that
Speaker 4: he did with the on the record that he released
Speaker 4: with Rizzo, and he had a great experience, so he
Speaker 4: was very positive about that. He's such an incredible musician
Speaker 4: and obviously like really accomplished professionally, and I knew that
Speaker 4: he was also like just great with get a great year,
Speaker 4: great with keyboards, with a great pianist, great with arrangements
Speaker 4: and things like that, which was really.
Speaker 2: Intriguing to me and then for me, so I guess
Speaker 2: the thing that really attracted.
Speaker 4: Me to working with him was like what it will
Speaker 4: bring atmospherically and keyboards and orchestrations. That was like a
Speaker 4: really attractive point. I was hoping that he would jump
Speaker 4: on board, and he did so. April twenty twenty five
Speaker 4: was really the real beginning and which kind of, you know,
Speaker 4: we were off of the racist pretty quickly once. At
Speaker 4: that time, his studio was in the basement of his
Speaker 4: house in New York, and we just went there and
Speaker 4: we laid the ground. The first song that we worked
Speaker 4: on was Iron City, and it went pretty far, pretty deep,
Speaker 4: thank you, and it's it felt very different right from
Speaker 4: like day one with him there already felt like, wow,
Speaker 4: this is a very different vibe and feeling I wrote
Speaker 4: on the piano in that arrangement, but then Andrews started
Speaker 4: doing the things that Andrews just did to the track
Speaker 4: atmospherically and bye wise, and then Paul right away had them.
Speaker 4: I think he had the course like like within day
Speaker 4: one and day two with those lyrics of Iron City
Speaker 4: and the melody. So it's when when things are going
Speaker 4: like that, I think, you know, you're like in a
Speaker 4: good place and things feel very positive and then leaning Yeah,
Speaker 4: and then in the ensuing days we started working on
Speaker 4: what would become Wings on Fire, so rites of rained
Speaker 4: here and then actually the last track on the record, Sudden,
Speaker 4: which I recorded in Andrews's house on his piano in
Speaker 4: his living room, and then it was is great because
Speaker 4: it's like it's a residential house and at the end
Speaker 4: it was at dusk you could hear all these birds
Speaker 4: from street just doing their song. And it's at the
Speaker 4: very end of if you listen closely, at the end
Speaker 4: of the track, you can hear these bursts and yeah,
Speaker 4: it's like a nice sort of like little natural ambiance
Speaker 4: and something that you want to make sure preserves are
Speaker 4: up the recording process, and it doesn't get lost.
Speaker 3: I've heard you talk about the record and say that
Speaker 3: there's some things, some new sounds you wanted to bring in,
Speaker 3: and aesthetically it's a little bit different than past Interpol albums.
Speaker 3: Did you have a moment where you sort of like
Speaker 3: thought back over the catalog or listen to old recordings
Speaker 3: and consciously thought like, these are the things I want
Speaker 3: to bring in or was that a conversation with Andrew
Speaker 3: or did that sort of just evolve naturally.
Speaker 2: I think it really evolves naturally.
Speaker 4: I'm personally I'm best and I don't think conceptually too
Speaker 4: much about what I want to do, or I think
Speaker 4: when we don't discuss I mean maybe.
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit of a you know, I.
Speaker 4: Stick clear in my old way to something, but like
Speaker 4: I didn't, you know, we don't start talking about grandiose
Speaker 4: ideas or concepsual ideas rather than just do them. I
Speaker 4: love and we're just doing things, you know, and and
Speaker 4: if evolution naturally takes this course, the better.
Speaker 2: But you know, when it's more of like a conceptual conversation,
Speaker 2: I find.
Speaker 4: Those are harder to lift off versus the ones that
Speaker 4: we're actually just doing it. And I think we're kind
Speaker 4: of good at just mixing it up. And we're very
Speaker 4: different people, so we are mixing together. Usually the results
Speaker 4: can kind of go in different ways for me as
Speaker 4: far as like even just like the you know, the onset.
Speaker 2: Of just writing.
Speaker 4: I was pretty excited about some of the stuff that
Speaker 4: I was working on. I've written a little bit more
Speaker 4: previously on the piano, but it's not something I do
Speaker 4: all the time. So the fact that there's already three
Speaker 4: songs that felt very different for us, and then there's
Speaker 4: some songs as I was writing them, I felt like
Speaker 4: maybe the progression I kind of pushed myself a little
Speaker 4: bit further to maybe reinvent them, Like I felt like
Speaker 4: they're going down too much of a familiar road. So
Speaker 4: then I kind of reworked that and consequently came out
Speaker 4: with like new results, whether it was like weird sort
Speaker 4: of rhythm, sort of signatures or vibes, Like there's a
Speaker 4: few reinventions of the songs I can think of, just
Speaker 4: kind of found a different like avenue for them, you know.
Speaker 3: Cool. How have you noticed that your own personal musical
Speaker 3: tastes have changed since you know, starting the band. It's
Speaker 3: been like over thirty years.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, follow after that kind of sentence.
Speaker 3: You know, it's so crazy, but like, how have you
Speaker 3: seen like your own personal taste change, and how have
Speaker 3: you seen like Paul's taste change, And how has that
Speaker 3: influenced the music that you guys make together? And if
Speaker 3: those are sort of like divergent paths, like you said,
Speaker 3: everybody in the band is very different. Is it hard
Speaker 3: to settle into one sound?
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean maybe it is, but I think
Speaker 4: that's good. And I think it's something that I don't
Speaker 4: ever pay that much mind to whether you know, like
Speaker 4: a what kind of sound that might be, or whether
Speaker 4: this fits or whatnot. You know, if it feels good,
Speaker 4: it feels good. And I think we've always just kind
Speaker 4: of abided by that. You know, it's like Paul's influences.
Speaker 4: We have some overlap from you know, the early conversations
Speaker 4: when I first met him, you know, there were some
Speaker 4: overlaps and so forth.
Speaker 2: But he's always been like, you know, he's really really
Speaker 2: in the hip hop and masterdom when what he listens
Speaker 2: to the most.
Speaker 4: And that's been consistent since I've known him, and I
Speaker 4: probably listen less of hip hop than he doesn't. The
Speaker 4: great admiration for it. I just don't keep up on
Speaker 4: what's happening and so forth. He really keeps up on it.
Speaker 4: But you know, the over our history, there's been like
Speaker 4: bands that we traded or you know, like in the
Speaker 4: early days, I was working a record label and the
Speaker 4: record label is putting out the first mob Wie records
Speaker 4: and I got crazy for them, and I remember inducing
Speaker 4: it to Paul and we got to see some of
Speaker 4: their early concerts and become friends and all those kind
Speaker 4: of like moments. So that these were or like getting
Speaker 4: really in the can in the early days and doing
Speaker 4: the same thing as a band. You know, It's more
Speaker 4: I think we've always had like an openness for whatever
Speaker 4: feels good and whatever we like we like and we
Speaker 4: don't really think about how that fits as to technology
Speaker 4: and just the music world has changed so much from
Speaker 4: going to record stores and just really trusting, you know,
Speaker 4: when we started to go like other music or in
Speaker 4: New York City like the store yeah Mondo Kims also
Speaker 4: and so forth, and then that you trust the buyer
Speaker 4: there or something like that, and it might have been
Speaker 4: a nice time.
Speaker 2: Brad who plays bass Finer Pol was a buyer Mondo Kims.
Speaker 2: But you know, what I mean.
Speaker 3: They'd be like, oh, yeah, job, you could have had
Speaker 3: back then.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean, you know, and then they
Speaker 4: would have like a little like placard that would say
Speaker 4: check out this saying blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And then you trust them and if you've won the
Speaker 2: clerks there would be like, oh, yeah, you really check
Speaker 2: this out. I think you'd like this. Then you go home.
Speaker 2: You develop a relationship with a record.
Speaker 4: Maybe at first you didn't love it, but then by
Speaker 4: listening five I should say you loved it, And I
Speaker 4: think we're in a very different nation of that. Maybe
Speaker 4: for me, I find a little overwhelming at times, so
Speaker 4: I don't come across music as much as like in
Speaker 4: that sort of pure format, which I think really suits me.
Speaker 4: So I don't want to have done a great job
Speaker 4: of like always finding new things they find me or
Speaker 4: I have friends who like circulate it. But I guess
Speaker 4: at the same time, like creativity, I don't find I
Speaker 4: needed to create. I kind of just love writing songs still,
Speaker 4: and that's like kind of crazy that I do enjoy
Speaker 4: as much now as I did when I was like
Speaker 4: certainly when the band started, but even as a teenager,
Speaker 4: it's really something I'd love to do.
Speaker 2: And when you're touring.
Speaker 4: As much as we do, I don't I don't get
Speaker 4: to do it all on the on the roads. When
Speaker 4: I'm at home finally like some space. It's like it's
Speaker 4: probably my favorite thing to do is pick up my
Speaker 4: class and guitar and just try to you know, start
Speaker 4: my day off that way. And when you come across
Speaker 4: something new that really you know, you're into and you
Speaker 4: want to develop, it's still like a feeling that I
Speaker 4: can relate to being a teenager and coming up with that's,
Speaker 4: you know, and it's something that hasn't really changed.
Speaker 3: That is so crazy, and what a gift that you're
Speaker 3: still into it, that it still brings you joy or
Speaker 3: it provides some sort of outlet for you. That's insane totally.
Speaker 2: And I don't take that for granted because there's very
Speaker 2: few things I think in.
Speaker 4: Life that you can sort of correlate to your teenage
Speaker 4: you know, years as far as that joy and it
Speaker 4: would still have that purity to it and it still
Speaker 4: would make as much sense. But it really does, and
Speaker 4: and these things can disappear, you can, you know, obviously,
Speaker 4: like many other elements in your lives change of it. Yeah,
Speaker 4: over that time, you know, and so do brand the
Speaker 4: sand will feel like you sti't relate to that sort
Speaker 4: of feeling where you don't you don't you don't yearn
Speaker 4: for it, or you just it's like the well feels dry.
Speaker 4: But it's a I really do feel like I really
Speaker 4: get I started every single day when I'm not on
Speaker 4: the road, just playing guitar, you know, drinking coffee and
Speaker 4: watching a film. That's really, Oh, that's the best. It's
Speaker 4: the best thing. Even if I feel like catching an
Speaker 4: early morning flight, I will still like allocate time for
Speaker 4: at least like thirty.
Speaker 2: Minutes to do this.
Speaker 4: It's really it's kind of insane, but I really just
Speaker 4: enjoy so much and it centers me, you know.
Speaker 3: So you wake up, you get your coffee, you play
Speaker 3: the guitar, and you watch a movie at the same time.
Speaker 2: I do forever.
Speaker 3: What do you focus more on the movie? Are you
Speaker 3: focused on the guitar?
Speaker 2: I really do both.
Speaker 4: It's really like it's I think the movie is more
Speaker 4: there to distract me from like the the weight of
Speaker 4: trying to write something or trying to do something. It's
Speaker 4: just more and it's also like visual stimulation and something yeah,
Speaker 4: and so I think the combination of the two sort
Speaker 4: of you know, and I started new link. Sometimes I'll
Speaker 4: just be newling on something that I've been working on,
Speaker 4: seeing if there's like a new passage or like a
Speaker 4: new way, like oh, a new park or something like that.
Speaker 4: And then sometimes quite more times than not, I'll just realize.
Speaker 2: I'm just watching a movie and playing guitar, and that's all.
Speaker 4: I'll be like, all right, guys, like, you know, get
Speaker 4: off your day and ever fishing tomorrow and seeing something
Speaker 4: else happens.
Speaker 2: But like it's it's still something I really enjoy doing.
Speaker 2: But then once in a while, it's like a nice life.
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 2: It's amazing. It's amazing to me.
Speaker 4: It's like the luxury of not looking in time in
Speaker 4: the morning is something that I think I really longed
Speaker 4: for when I was working jobs, you know, like I
Speaker 4: really hope that one day I can sort of take
Speaker 4: the clock off and just play, you know, work on
Speaker 4: music in the mornings and not have to worry about
Speaker 4: being there. And I can vividly remember feeling that way
Speaker 4: while working jobs, that I just really want to be
Speaker 4: doing this. So it's it's not a loss to me
Speaker 4: that this is a real luxury they get to have
Speaker 4: in my life.
Speaker 3: So tell me about working jobs. Was this all before
Speaker 3: the band started or did you have you didn't have
Speaker 3: any sort of jobs like while Interpol was together.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 4: I started working right like the day after I graduated
Speaker 4: from university. I started working record labels, basically because I
Speaker 4: just I thought the autore really against me that I
Speaker 4: get to play music in my life, and I just
Speaker 4: joined the percentage, you know.
Speaker 2: Of the likelihood.
Speaker 4: So I just sort of well thought of like, well,
Speaker 4: if I have to work, I kind of want to
Speaker 4: work around, you know, music at the very least, and
Speaker 4: around music that I was passionate about that I liked.
Speaker 4: So if I have to give my time to to
Speaker 4: someone else into something else, I wanted to be around
Speaker 4: I wanted.
Speaker 2: I wanted to understand why, you know. And so I
Speaker 2: started working.
Speaker 4: My first real job was working this record company called
Speaker 4: jet Set, and it was a very small record company
Speaker 4: and so there was like a lot of responsibility, which
Speaker 4: is great.
Speaker 2: I learned so much.
Speaker 4: I did like all this dissitbution marketing and retail stuff
Speaker 4: and even like accounts receivable, like I did a whole
Speaker 4: bunch of I did, you know.
Speaker 2: But it was like, really, I learned so much.
Speaker 4: So it was like, I mean, no money, like negative money,
Speaker 4: but it was such a yeah.
Speaker 2: I was like a great education in itself, and I
Speaker 2: just learned, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And then from there I just worked a different
Speaker 4: places along the way.
Speaker 2: My last job was working at Domino Records.
Speaker 4: And while I was working there as when you know,
Speaker 4: it's like towards even right before we started working on
Speaker 4: recording Tone of the Bride Lights, I was still working
Speaker 4: at Domino.
Speaker 3: So was it a big deal, like when you quit
Speaker 3: the job, was that a big deal? Or was it
Speaker 3: sort of like, I mean to try this out and
Speaker 3: I can always go back.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, to me, my dream was always
Speaker 4: just to get to make a record. It was really
Speaker 4: like I it was, so it didn't come that easily.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: We were we played off first show I think in
Speaker 4: March nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 2: I think we didn't sign really.
Speaker 4: To our first record label deal until something like the
Speaker 4: fall of two thousand and one. And in that time,
Speaker 4: we played, you know, we made several demos, We played
Speaker 4: so many shows, and we didn't really change esthetically or
Speaker 4: sound wise, songs that are very first sema that we
Speaker 4: made in the summer of nineth ninety eight, or go
Speaker 4: on our very first record, like our very first single
Speaker 4: was on the very first seme of this PDA role
Speaker 4: and one other song, but you know, PDA Rowland or
Speaker 4: on our first record in PDA was our very first single. Granted,
Speaker 4: maybe we became better at playing those songs, but we
Speaker 4: already had a sense of who we were and what
Speaker 4: we were doing, and that's it's just the timing maybe
Speaker 4: wasn't right or just not that much interest. So so
Speaker 4: to me, I just kept like, you know, all these
Speaker 4: doors would be shut in our faces sort of speak,
Speaker 4: and no one was showing any interest, and you keep
Speaker 4: And I think that's something that really helped me was
Speaker 4: that having worked at record labels and understanding that record
Speaker 4: labels only have so much space, like new bands, and
Speaker 4: they have all these other bands that they keep putting,
Speaker 4: you know, the season bands that they released records of
Speaker 4: every few years and so forth, that the slots were
Speaker 4: just there, weren't that many available, and so we just
Speaker 4: had to be very patient about it, and I didn't
Speaker 4: take it too personally. But when we finally were signed
Speaker 4: and we were able to make, you know, our first record.
Speaker 4: To me, that was like as far as mine, my
Speaker 4: aspirations and my dream lench. You know, I didn't really
Speaker 4: spend four or five years with no one really showing
Speaker 4: much interest towards your band and being sort of you know,
Speaker 4: delusional to think all of a sudden that people would
Speaker 4: actually be into your the outbum that we finally put out.
Speaker 4: So I was really surprised that people were so receptive
Speaker 4: to our first record when they upon its release.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like I would feel very dejected at
Speaker 3: that point, like Okay, we need to change the sound
Speaker 3: or we're obviously not doing something right.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I mean that this is like I
Speaker 4: really love making music with these guys sincerely, and to
Speaker 4: me it was even I mean I felt like not
Speaker 4: I would never ever ever contemplate changing our sound because
Speaker 4: I really, to me, it's like, you know, you do
Speaker 4: this for yourselves, and you do this because you're expressing
Speaker 4: something that you need to get out and it feels
Speaker 4: grat in that rehearsal room. And then there was a
Speaker 4: moment where, you know the thing that I did feel
Speaker 4: like rejected like by the you know so much or
Speaker 4: dejected by so much rejections and so forth. But after
Speaker 4: a while you find, like some I think by going
Speaker 4: through that process, I think, you know, I found, at
Speaker 4: least for me, a little bit of an innerp Well,
Speaker 4: you know, I think I left a rehearsal number one
Speaker 4: winter day in Willisburg and just being like, I think
Speaker 4: we're working on something like NYC or something like that
Speaker 4: for our first record, and I felt it was all
Speaker 4: such a great feeling to leave a rehearsal where something
Speaker 4: just happened that you couldn't have predicted, and the song
Speaker 4: really took this form.
Speaker 2: And you just sort of had this feeling of like euphoria.
Speaker 4: And I remember like leaving me like so into it,
Speaker 4: but then also finding some sort of like inner piece
Speaker 4: that well, if no one ever hears this, no one ever,
Speaker 4: you know, seemed to be the path that we're on,
Speaker 4: it's okay, you know, at least I'm getting something out
Speaker 4: of this. And so I really did kind of like
Speaker 4: let myself feel that peace and sort of let go
Speaker 4: of the things I really can control. Yeah, And also
Speaker 4: there's also like an inner like side, like something inside
Speaker 4: of me I think so consciously, I think consciously actually
Speaker 4: felt like the hardest part was just finding people to
Speaker 4: start a bandwidth. It was really I think I'd been
Speaker 4: looking in New York for so long and I just
Speaker 4: couldn't find people who were maybe like serious about starting
Speaker 4: a band, or want to commit the time, or or
Speaker 4: or kindred spirits. And when you know, I finally found
Speaker 4: these people and I really felt like, well, we're doing
Speaker 4: something kind of special in this rehearsal room. I just
Speaker 4: felt like, well, this is actually the hardest part, and
Speaker 4: staying together is probably the hardest part. You know. I
Speaker 4: didn't It wasn't like I had faith that something good
Speaker 4: would come to be, you know, as far as like,
Speaker 4: you know, being a fan base out there. But I
Speaker 4: just really felt like, you know, just kind of saying
Speaker 4: together it was like the most important thing.
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Daniel Kessler after this break.
Speaker 3: Were there things that you felt like you had to
Speaker 3: do to sort of like nurture the relationships within the
Speaker 3: band or was that not even a thought back then?
Speaker 3: It was just keep working and keep playing together for sure.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I think young men in New
Speaker 4: York City with no money, you know, like rehearsals are
Speaker 4: costing money that people don't have everyone's really broke, you're
Speaker 4: not getting paid very much money from your jobs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, some people maybe.
Speaker 4: Like were like I didn't never say that wanted to
Speaker 4: be in a band, you know, you know, I really
Speaker 4: wanted to be in a band. I really wanted to
Speaker 4: start a band. But yeah, I really kind of like
Speaker 4: approached everyone. So when things are not sort of building
Speaker 4: to some sort of like progression, you know, as far
Speaker 4: as like well more people coming to some of our shows,
Speaker 4: or now we have this opportunity to make a record
Speaker 4: after a while, as the you know, young men with
Speaker 4: you know, who are very talented in different aspirations, it's
Speaker 4: it's like they may be like, well, why am I
Speaker 4: saying all this money for not you know, and yeah,
Speaker 4: so there. I think there's definitely moments where I could
Speaker 4: have gone either way, and thankfully, you know, I think
Speaker 4: we would try to like talk it out. I think
Speaker 4: I think Papa was subconsciously we knew that we there
Speaker 4: was some special chemistry that was kind of.
Speaker 2: Harder to put into wars but difficult to like deny.
Speaker 4: Once we were playing music, it was really like you
Speaker 4: could see it and you could feel it.
Speaker 2: It was palpable.
Speaker 3: Was there a moment when you sort of felt like, Okay,
Speaker 3: this is going to work. We're going to start actually
Speaker 3: making money from this, this is going to grow.
Speaker 2: Ah.
Speaker 4: It just makes me laugh because I remember, like Carlos
Speaker 4: is also be like, can equit my job?
Speaker 2: Can equip my job, And it became sort of like
Speaker 2: an inside joke. You just say this forever. I don't know,
Speaker 2: and I know you remember what you did put his job.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was like actually when we
Speaker 2: were doing a very first US tour or something, but
Speaker 2: it was it was along those lines. We were still
Speaker 2: on a van and everything like that, but it was
Speaker 2: I didn't know if, like, you know, working is an
Speaker 2: interesting word.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you ever like kind of know that,
Speaker 4: but those we're in it for this moment at the
Speaker 4: very least, you know, And then it just became sort
Speaker 4: of like that very first US tour in a van.
Speaker 4: You know, I think you did two nights at the
Speaker 4: Troubadour in la and and those sold out, and and
Speaker 4: you know, you're seeing things. Then you come back the
Speaker 4: next time and you're playing the next size up and
Speaker 4: so forth, and now you know you can see like
Speaker 4: a progression, and I think that was something helpful for
Speaker 4: us to see that there's like something building and so forth.
Speaker 4: And then you see like minded spirits at our shows
Speaker 4: and hanging out with them, and I think you kind
Speaker 4: of just got, you know, really into it and and
Speaker 4: uh yeah, and just like touring and traveling and just exploring.
Speaker 3: And then what about any early rock star moments where
Speaker 3: you were maybe backstage with people or people that you
Speaker 3: really admired, Like do you remember like anything that you
Speaker 3: were like WHOA like pinch me moments?
Speaker 4: I mean, the best one for sure for me, And
Speaker 4: I would imagine first, I mean, I can't speak for
Speaker 4: my badness, but it was we were playing early on
Speaker 4: It might have been at the very end of our
Speaker 4: touring on on Bright Lights, at the very beginning of
Speaker 4: touring on on Antics. So I have a two thousand
Speaker 4: and three or two thousand and four, but we were, uh,
Speaker 4: we had two nights at the Hammerston Ballroom and and
Speaker 4: it was very it was like a very last show
Speaker 4: of a of a North American tour and so we
Speaker 4: got you know, you're so excited to go it like
Speaker 4: hard partying days it too. Plus it's like you're so
Speaker 4: happy to be home. So that first night we went
Speaker 4: out and went out a little too hard.
Speaker 2: We're too happy to be home.
Speaker 4: And so the backstage scene before the night of like
Speaker 4: the second show, everyone.
Speaker 2: Was like just su pleated.
Speaker 4: It just didn't look like you're about to go play,
Speaker 4: you know, a rock show where just everyone was like
Speaker 4: it was like lethargic energy everywhere. And then we had
Speaker 4: like a lovely Scottish tour manager at that time, Pero.
Speaker 4: His name is Stevie Dreads and he's amazing, and and
Speaker 4: you just see Stevie's energy goes towards a door where
Speaker 4: it's like, I guess the presence was trying to enter it,
Speaker 4: and see he goes, sorry, mate, you can't come in,
Speaker 4: and then you.
Speaker 2: Just hear you don't see the person, you just here,
Speaker 2: but I'm David Bowie.
Speaker 4: And then you just see like Stevie Dreads just move
Speaker 4: like lather lays if he's like a door like open,
Speaker 4: sesame and sad, and he just gets out of the way.
Speaker 4: And then David Bowie comes in and you know he's
Speaker 4: like super affable, really kind, saying really nice things. It
Speaker 4: was actually I guess after our first record. He's talking
Speaker 4: about the first record and he's doing really warm, and
Speaker 4: he wants to say hello before the show because he
Speaker 4: had a young job at home and he wanted to
Speaker 4: get home before the end of the show or you
Speaker 4: would be able to say hello after it, and said
Speaker 4: we were aflord, you know, we were just so like
Speaker 4: we're just gondn't I remember Carlos was in the bathroom
Speaker 4: and there was like a little dark side of you
Speaker 4: is like I hope he just says in the bathroom,
Speaker 4: this is this crazy kind of moment accident right after
Speaker 4: David Aloady left and guess and tell him, but not yet.
Speaker 2: You know, he got I want him all to myself, Yeah,
Speaker 2: calmly sketch of some sort, but he uh no, but
Speaker 2: he got to. He accided matter as well.
Speaker 4: But it was just such a I don't think you
Speaker 4: can do any better that he's you know, one of
Speaker 4: the great artists of our times period and wow, just
Speaker 4: uh just wasn't expecting that, and you know, obviously really
Speaker 4: woke us up and fueled that show.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, you're like you got an ivy all of
Speaker 3: a sudden, like, yeah, does that make you nervous to
Speaker 3: know that he's out there to perform you.
Speaker 4: Know the good thing about I think being and I
Speaker 4: felt the way even as it was unfolding. The good
Speaker 4: thing about like not having things happen too fast as
Speaker 4: a as a curve of class where we had these
Speaker 4: like you know, four years and no one wanted to
Speaker 4: sign us and so forth.
Speaker 2: I think it helps develop something within you.
Speaker 4: I feel like he's like a self preservation, some blinders
Speaker 4: on your eyes, something that just kind of makes you
Speaker 4: a little bit solid as far as just focusing on
Speaker 4: what you can control and just doing your things. So
Speaker 4: I don't really recall thinking too too much about it.
Speaker 4: I just recall just getting in the moment or just
Speaker 4: playing music. I do that, you know what I said,
Speaker 4: I really do. It feels like, really I'm happy things
Speaker 4: that not happened too fast for us. I'm happy that
Speaker 4: I wasn't like we put out a song like as
Speaker 4: like today, where you put out something else sudden just
Speaker 4: blows up and you have no time to sort of
Speaker 4: develop as a as a musician, as a band, as songwriters,
Speaker 4: and so forth, and then you start overthinking things. I
Speaker 4: was definitely worried in the early days of overthinking things
Speaker 4: that would give in the way of like me being
Speaker 4: able to write future songs, and I think having that
Speaker 4: time to see formulate and so forth that kind of
Speaker 4: secured something as far as just not thinking about anything
Speaker 4: when I'm like writing for you know, for instance, I
Speaker 4: don't think about anything. I don't think about whether people
Speaker 4: are going to like something or not like something. I
Speaker 4: just kind of just focus on whether I'm liking it,
Speaker 4: and the world just sort of like you know, falls
Speaker 4: to the backdraw.
Speaker 3: When did you first realize that you want I wanted
Speaker 3: to write songs or when did you start writing songs?
Speaker 3: And what was the inspiration for that? Was there other
Speaker 3: musical people in your family? Did you know people who
Speaker 3: were making music?
Speaker 4: Not really, I think for me, it's like you know,
Speaker 4: I have I guess like just music was also like
Speaker 4: such a strong position in my life and in my family.
Speaker 2: I have two older brothers.
Speaker 4: I was born in England, I lived there until six
Speaker 4: and my eldest brother somehow was extraordinarily passionate about music.
Speaker 2: I had this importance. So we eat the you know,
Speaker 2: me and my two buttons.
Speaker 4: We shared a room and bedroom together, so it's like
Speaker 4: I could just in my first musical memories just staring
Speaker 4: at this his side of the wall, you know, and
Speaker 4: just seeing all these like cutouts of like Paul Weller
Speaker 4: or countless other really using the Jam fan club.
Speaker 2: So there's like tons of like Jam stuff.
Speaker 4: So to me it was almost like this is my
Speaker 4: first not even like my first musical memories, my first
Speaker 4: life memories are staring at this wall, waking up and
Speaker 4: go and sleep and just you know, And so to me,
Speaker 4: it's almost like religion. You know, it's like if people
Speaker 4: have religious artifacts. I'm looking at this and thinking this
Speaker 4: is really serious. And then when I moved to I
Speaker 4: lived England until six, and then France i was eleven.
Speaker 4: And then when I moved to Washington, DC when I
Speaker 4: was eleven, I think just moving there and I was
Speaker 4: a skateboarder for a while, and then I quit doing
Speaker 4: that and then I started, you know, on the same
Speaker 4: day I quit skateboarding, I picked up playing guitar, and
Speaker 4: then I started learning how to write songs on my own,
Speaker 4: and that sort of I think I got something out
Speaker 4: of it, as like a ag sort of my teenager
Speaker 4: just kind of you know, making my own chords and
Speaker 4: then realizing that I really when I started trying to
Speaker 4: write songs, and you know, something happened for me in emotionally,
Speaker 4: I felt, you know, I felt a little bit better,
Speaker 4: if that makes sense, just like that sort of scapees
Speaker 4: and like writing songs of the night and feeling like.
Speaker 2: A little bit more whole by doing so.
Speaker 3: When you moved to d C when you were eleven,
Speaker 3: did you lock in with like the local music scene
Speaker 3: in DC at the time, Like what was going on
Speaker 3: musically there.
Speaker 4: I mean, I was in all of the music scene
Speaker 4: that for sure had a big inspiration. And I think
Speaker 4: also having come from like London and France and these
Speaker 4: two older brothers were really you know, very had like
Speaker 4: you know, a little strong pump rock energy and you know,
Speaker 4: underground energy that they took really seriously. And I think
Speaker 4: that in that time period, like in the UK and
Speaker 4: in France, you when you dressed a certain way, it's
Speaker 4: almost sort of like it meant something, you know.
Speaker 2: It wasn't.
Speaker 4: You're a bit of a tribe, you know, and you're
Speaker 4: also a bit of a target. It was serious work
Speaker 4: because of other people you encounter, other people that weren't
Speaker 4: of the same tribe like that, they could get it
Speaker 4: could get like sort of like violin and so forth.
Speaker 4: It was really a serious in a way that it
Speaker 4: is not now or it's just very different now. So
Speaker 4: in that sense, I think that also is like set
Speaker 4: of a seriousness with me too. And then moving to
Speaker 4: d C for sure. And also just like the in.
Speaker 2: The skateboarding world, you know, you start discovering like hardcore and.
Speaker 4: Not really in the hardcore and the d C and
Speaker 4: like the Discord stuff was a huge that's when I
Speaker 4: discovered that. I was like, I mean, I don't think
Speaker 4: I could think of a bigger influence if I had
Speaker 4: this single one band that had the biggest influence on
Speaker 4: me as a as a musician and me covered my
Speaker 4: own palf I would say fu Gassi by far.
Speaker 3: Yeah for sure. So what was your first band? When
Speaker 3: did you find guys to play with?
Speaker 4: I mean really Enterpolse really kind of like was the
Speaker 4: first like serious band, Like I did high school bands
Speaker 4: in DC, but you know, you did a few shows
Speaker 4: here and there and so forth, and it was kind
Speaker 4: of fun. But it's I think it's almost like sets
Speaker 4: you in the path to like learning how to play
Speaker 4: live and not being too nervous about it. But when
Speaker 4: I moved to New York, I really set my my
Speaker 4: my my goals were finally like, you know, a copper
Speaker 4: and serious band to play with.
Speaker 3: I heard that you you guys recorded antics like pretty
Speaker 3: close closely after the first album. When it came time
Speaker 3: to do the third album, did you ever experience like, oh,
Speaker 3: it's suddenly hard to write new songs.
Speaker 2: Observationally, I would say it didn't happen.
Speaker 4: I always kind of expected or knew that it could happen,
Speaker 4: you know, like I really I knew, you know, just
Speaker 4: musical issuy wise, like even like the the sophomore slump
Speaker 4: and so forthwarth people, I think those pitfalls are things
Speaker 4: that I was awareless. So I was trying to be mindful,
Speaker 4: like you know, so for instance, you know, as you mentioned,
Speaker 4: album and the album two are very close together. But
Speaker 4: that was something that was like I think we were
Speaker 4: very mindful of, like let's start working on album too
Speaker 4: while we're still touring on on Bright Lights.
Speaker 2: Let's just you know, not, let's not let's get ahead.
Speaker 4: Of all of this, like all these sort of cliches
Speaker 4: or you know, or these these these truths of the
Speaker 4: music and to stry, let's just like start writing stuff.
Speaker 2: We can really think about it.
Speaker 4: And so that's why we put those two records also
Speaker 4: close together, because we're quite ready, because we just continued
Speaker 4: and I think we're naturally progressing as musicians as songwriters
Speaker 4: while we're writing antics and so I think, you know, constantly,
Speaker 4: I've always been mindful of this so too. It's it's strange,
Speaker 4: like I think maybe after getting you know, through those
Speaker 4: first two records, something sort of just kind of happened naturally,
Speaker 4: so you just kind of got through us a storm
Speaker 4: and then you stopped thinking about it.
Speaker 2: And also what I was saying before about those first.
Speaker 4: Four years of just no one wanted to sign us,
Speaker 4: I think that really sort of gave us a just
Speaker 4: station period just to be kind of like, you know,
Speaker 4: even though we'd had changes and we had challenges along
Speaker 4: the way as band members, and I think we still
Speaker 4: had something kind of solid ones we were able to
Speaker 4: focus on underworking on new music.
Speaker 2: You know, we were never had like a big like
Speaker 2: writing droughts. You know, we've never been short on ideas.
Speaker 4: I mean, people might could, you know, could very they
Speaker 4: could be like, well, maybe should have taken a little
Speaker 4: bit longer or something like that. That's fair, but you know,
Speaker 4: for us, while we're working on things, I think we
Speaker 4: got pretty into what we're working on. So for even
Speaker 4: like album three, I think, you know, there's maybe a
Speaker 4: little bit more like things were happening behind the scenes
Speaker 4: in the band and so forth, you know, like the
Speaker 4: natural like challenges of like adults and yeah and so forth.
Speaker 4: But I don't think once we were in writing it
Speaker 4: was like challenging is you know. We might have had
Speaker 4: like more like conversations about directions and so forth, But
Speaker 4: for the most part, I think we always had a
Speaker 4: strong sense of like chemistry. It's just a matter of
Speaker 4: like maybe which direction we want to go to. But
Speaker 4: even like an album three, you know, I was happy
Speaker 4: what we're doing for album three. You know, It's interesting
Speaker 4: because I feel like maybe at the time, I mean
Speaker 4: it's like a while ago, but I feel like at
Speaker 4: the time people pile least there are these certain people
Speaker 4: I've never like really read much up press and stuff
Speaker 4: like this. I stopped reading press really on like touring
Speaker 4: on Turn of the Bright Lights because it just, I
Speaker 4: don't know, I felt like, this is not for me
Speaker 4: to read, It's for other people to read, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean. I don't want my feelings to be
Speaker 4: wrapped up on this of like anticipation if this is
Speaker 4: going to be a good review or bad review, because like, wait,
Speaker 4: what can I do now? Like I can just control
Speaker 4: writing music, recording music, and releasing it.
Speaker 2: But apart from that, it's like completely out in my hands.
Speaker 2: So like, oh, okay, so I'll just let go.
Speaker 4: And it felt as soon as I made that decision,
Speaker 4: it felt like the right one. So but on the
Speaker 4: album through, I probably felt like there's probably a little
Speaker 4: bit of like people not taking to the record, which
Speaker 4: might you know, I think sometimes that's just like part
Speaker 4: for the portion, and you come in with like a
Speaker 4: lot of attention on your first like you know, two actors,
Speaker 4: and there's a moment where especially I think back then
Speaker 4: with like the way the pendulum was like swing, I
Speaker 4: think those things might have happened around IBM three.
Speaker 3: It's always like there's a natural up and down, but
Speaker 3: sometimes it feels fabricated and it's like people are like
Speaker 3: chomping at the bit to write that story. You know.
Speaker 3: It's like that's a crazy instinct that humans have.
Speaker 4: It's weird, I mean, and you don't want any excuses
Speaker 4: because if someone's legitially like yo, I don't think this
Speaker 4: is a very good record, or I think like your
Speaker 4: other stuff is way better. That's completely a fair assessment,
Speaker 4: you know. That's like the beautiful thing about arts, Like
Speaker 4: everyone has a different opinion and that's like fair and
Speaker 4: no one is really wrong. It's a very subjective entity
Speaker 4: like thing media, whatever you know, and and so like.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I think sometimes there is like.
Speaker 4: In probably like music, popular music criticism, this is maybe
Speaker 4: a little bit of like I'm tired of these guys
Speaker 4: or I'm tired of this, you know, versus giving it
Speaker 4: a real shake. I definitely remember hearing someone come up
Speaker 4: to me like years later and say like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: I didn't really like album three and I gave it
Speaker 4: like not a very good review or stuff. I can't
Speaker 4: remember the circumstances, but you know, when I went back
Speaker 4: and listened to it recently and it's actually pretty good,
Speaker 4: and I was like.
Speaker 2: Bro, get away from me. I'm like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: like I like, like, I don't know. It's like one
Speaker 2: thing to you, as I.
Speaker 4: Said, if you don't like it, I totally get that,
Speaker 4: but it's like I don't know to to do. That
Speaker 4: is not really I feel like, you know, or if
Speaker 4: you need a minute, maybe get a better assessment of
Speaker 4: it before you formulate an opinion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the problem with that job is like oftentimes
Speaker 3: you only have a couple of days to listen to
Speaker 3: the album, to digest it, and then to sort of
Speaker 3: like barf out an opinion. But you're like you should
Speaker 3: to that guy, it's like, dude, can you like publish
Speaker 3: a new story, like an updated opinion?
Speaker 2: I mean, you know what that's actually like not a
Speaker 2: bad story.
Speaker 4: There, you know, like you know, but yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's so annoying. But do you find as
Speaker 3: just a fan of music and a listener, like, do
Speaker 3: you find yourself doing the same thing to other artists
Speaker 3: or other groups where you listen to something and you like,
Speaker 3: is your first reaction ever just to hate on it?
Speaker 3: Or do you feel like because you're in the industry,
Speaker 3: you're just naturally supportive.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I have one meaning or the other.
Speaker 4: I think it's also different times in your life and
Speaker 4: different ages in your life, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 4: there's like I certainly when I was like a you know,
Speaker 4: late teenager, early twenties, I think I probably formulate my
Speaker 4: opinions pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: And yeah, in a way that I certainly would not
Speaker 2: do now or I haven't done in a while. But
Speaker 2: like I think, especially.
Speaker 4: When you're like a you know, a late teenager, I
Speaker 4: do remember when like certain things were blowing up. I
Speaker 4: was already into like a lot of like hardcore kind
Speaker 4: of stuff when I was in high school, or underground
Speaker 4: kind of stuff, and then all of a sudden, Nirvana
Speaker 4: becomes like so massive, and all these bands becomes so massive,
Speaker 4: and everyone in your high school like likes, you know,
Speaker 4: this music that sounds pretty close to the things that
Speaker 4: you like. You've become like a proprietary like kind of standpoint,
Speaker 4: and you feel like a little bit of cross upon
Speaker 4: because this is like one of the elements that said
Speaker 4: you made you feel a little bit different, you know,
Speaker 4: in a way that I think is very different now
Speaker 4: than it was then. But but when I was a
Speaker 4: kid then it was like you'd have to really like
Speaker 4: dig dig dig to get some of the stuff. And
Speaker 4: all of a sudden it became so mainstream and in
Speaker 4: a very well earned and exciting way, like there's an
Speaker 4: undeniable and pure like Nirvana sounds amazing now too, you know,
Speaker 4: when I here like out there, it's like undeniable At
Speaker 4: that time, I think I probably had a hard time
Speaker 4: hearing it because it was just energy wise or closer
Speaker 4: things that I liked that I just kind of, you know,
Speaker 4: wanted to keep for myself. So it's just like an
Speaker 4: I hadn't heard Navana before they actually really blew up.
Speaker 4: I hadn't heard Bleachs and so forth. But it's like
Speaker 4: you hear it now, you know, and it's like, this
Speaker 4: is an undeniably incredible original band with these songs that
Speaker 4: are very singular and you know, like lyrics that are
Speaker 4: really one of a kind, and it's amazing that it
Speaker 4: actually resonated with like you know, popular culture and the masses.
Speaker 4: It's really because it's so unique sounding and in some
Speaker 4: ways it's it's a sounding that would be for so
Speaker 4: many people, you know what I mean. There's like something
Speaker 4: that's really like left of sensor. So it's actually looking back,
Speaker 4: it's an extraordinarily exciting moment.
Speaker 1: You know, one last break and moving back with Daniel Kessler, do.
Speaker 3: You think of like at this point, I know that
Speaker 3: you had a celebration. I think it waslast year, maybe
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago for antics, was it the
Speaker 3: twentieth anniversary.
Speaker 2: Or it was, Yeah, it was the twentieth and twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: Four, twenty twenty four. Okay, So at that point do
Speaker 3: you start to think of Interpol as a legacy band, Like,
Speaker 3: how does that sit with you? I wish that wasn't
Speaker 3: a bad thing, because no.
Speaker 2: I mean, in some ways it's an amazing heat. You know.
Speaker 4: It's like really and I mean what I say, like
Speaker 4: I never got further than my sort of dreaming about
Speaker 4: making out one. I feel like it feels so close
Speaker 4: to me when I think of those of that feeling
Speaker 4: somehow I really think about playing the Troubadour. It's really
Speaker 4: strange because I feel like that like when we had
Speaker 4: this two shows there and playing it and it was
Speaker 4: like really like I really dawned to me, like wow,
Speaker 4: this is really happening right now, and those all those
Speaker 4: those times not that long ago, people just for showing
Speaker 4: no interests and like we have these two sold out shows.
Speaker 4: But to me, it was like, wow, that was like
Speaker 4: my dream. And so that was like and I just
Speaker 4: never anything after that. Als felt like bonus, it really
Speaker 4: did like soon after that and then here we are
Speaker 4: on an album.
Speaker 3: A that's a lot of years of bonus.
Speaker 4: It's like yeah, but you know, the thing about it
Speaker 4: is like I guess it's absolutely and it's like so
Speaker 4: it's one part of me like that's just really crazy,
Speaker 4: and I guess some ways, like lots of life has
Speaker 4: been lived since then, you you know, by doing this,
Speaker 4: you know, I've got to explore the world, meet people
Speaker 4: from all over the world, have many different life experiences.
Speaker 4: So in that sense, it's really the band's giving you
Speaker 4: so much. But then you make a record like the
Speaker 4: record we just made, or every time we write songs,
Speaker 4: you have this urgency and this uh in the songwriting together,
Speaker 4: you have this chemistry and it's kind of undeniable, and
Speaker 4: it's never like it it never feels like work.
Speaker 2: It's more of just like you feel it. It's like invigorating,
Speaker 2: it's visceral.
Speaker 4: It's like all these things and in some ways is
Speaker 4: there's a commonality because that to like how it was
Speaker 4: when we first started like writing songs and realizing that
Speaker 4: there's like this chemistry that hasn't really changed that much.
Speaker 4: And that's again like going back to these things can dissipate,
Speaker 4: they can just go.
Speaker 2: Away and be very understandable.
Speaker 4: They you know, and if it started feeling like a
Speaker 4: job then, you know, like and so forth, But it's
Speaker 4: never felt like a job. It's never felt like something.
Speaker 4: We don't start making records. We feel like we're writing
Speaker 4: songs because we feel like we need to go do this.
Speaker 4: We can start touring. We've never thought about those terms
Speaker 4: you write. We're still abandoned. Still write songs together and
Speaker 4: make records because I feel like it's just a it's
Speaker 4: just this energy, this chemistry is just really like pure
Speaker 4: and it's just it's undeniable, and it's really get so
Speaker 4: much out of it, and it's passionate, and you feel
Speaker 4: like you can do something better than what you done previously.
Speaker 2: But you just feel like this evolution is so happening
Speaker 2: while we're doing this.
Speaker 4: So to me, it's like as long as that's feeling
Speaker 4: is still there, and then that's kind of what you're
Speaker 4: focused on.
Speaker 2: So it's almost like I think to myself.
Speaker 4: Maybe, like, you know, there'll be a time where I'll
Speaker 4: look back about some of these things that we've done
Speaker 4: and so forth, and you know, but that's it's not right.
Speaker 2: It's not now in that sense, you know, but it's
Speaker 2: also true.
Speaker 4: It's like it's been a long time, So if not,
Speaker 4: and if probably probably been saying a version of this
Speaker 4: to myself for a very long time. But I think
Speaker 4: in some ways, I think I don't think about it
Speaker 4: that much because I just want to keep going forward because.
Speaker 2: I really do believe in what we're doing.
Speaker 4: And if I ever felt like trying or like there
Speaker 4: was a drought in the songwriting or the chemistry shows
Speaker 4: the there, then you know, I'm we would definitely take
Speaker 4: a big pause. We definitely would take a moment. We
Speaker 4: definitely would never force anything. But it's kind of insane
Speaker 4: to me that actually that has never been and on
Speaker 4: the slightest round it that's abelt very Yeah, it felt
Speaker 4: really amazing in the moments, you know, and it felt
Speaker 4: very exciting, and we wasn't even belaboring. We didn't spend
Speaker 4: a ton of time working in these songs were writing
Speaker 4: and before we started recording them. So I think if
Speaker 4: you're having moments like this that are feeling very like
Speaker 4: good energy, positive and you're getting excited, and you kind
Speaker 4: of more focus on that than what you've already accomplished.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course for the new album, was
Speaker 3: there any more of those sort of like magical moments
Speaker 3: that you remember when something really started to come together
Speaker 3: and feel complete.
Speaker 2: I think it's a couple of times. I feel like
Speaker 2: when we were doing like the Burden Serpent, just towards
Speaker 2: the end of the record, that one does something. I
Speaker 2: know when I was like that was the one song
Speaker 2: that I think when I was writing the main Progression,
Speaker 2: I had it in a very different kind of mode.
Speaker 4: It was almost maybe a little bit more like it
Speaker 4: just felt like maybe like more rocky, and all of
Speaker 4: a sudden I started playing with like the sort of
Speaker 4: rhythm of it, and I feel like that sort of
Speaker 4: kind of so for me, I was getting kind of
Speaker 4: excited about like, oh what this could be. And then
Speaker 4: when we started working on it as a unit in
Speaker 4: the rehearsal room, I just feeling the excitement of the
Speaker 4: energy and so forth, and feeling realized.
Speaker 2: I think that was like a good indication.
Speaker 4: I think this mirror weighs a ton of the title
Speaker 4: track when that started growing in the studio. I mean,
Speaker 4: a really great moment for me is just like sitting
Speaker 4: there with Andrew's work and someone's atmospheres that are happening
Speaker 4: in the song and the courses and Paulosis right next
Speaker 4: to me at that moment is you know, to me,
Speaker 4: I felt like, that's almost become like an instrumental piece
Speaker 4: of music. But then pauls whom my left and he
Speaker 4: was like writing in a notebook, and then all of
Speaker 4: a sudden he ran to the he had like a
Speaker 4: little studio in the back of Madrew's studio, like a
Speaker 4: little working room. And then two hours later I walked
Speaker 4: in and he played me some of the vocals that
Speaker 4: he had just recorded and and right there and then
Speaker 4: you're like, oh, so this is definitely not gonna become
Speaker 4: an instrumental because these vocals are too good and now
Speaker 4: these and these melodies are too amazing.
Speaker 2: And then even then I'm pretty sure he just in
Speaker 2: that one moment he'd written this may of waste a
Speaker 2: ton That lyric was already there, so like right there,
Speaker 2: you're like, what is that? Like that just jumps out
Speaker 2: at you.
Speaker 4: So those are really exciting kind of like visceral moments,
Speaker 4: I would say, you know, but there's a lot of
Speaker 4: them on the record, Like even like even like a
Speaker 4: song that's probably a little more of like an Interpols
Speaker 4: song like c out Loud, uh that that was like
Speaker 4: a really fun one put together and find the jam
Speaker 4: on and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Or wake up too.
Speaker 4: That's you know, that feels like a you know, sort
Speaker 4: of like kind of like my guitarist a little bit
Speaker 4: like almost like a West African kind of like guitar
Speaker 4: sort of inscribed you know, rhythm and then like you know,
Speaker 4: just the song.
Speaker 2: Playing that together, like the energy and so forth was
Speaker 2: really fun.
Speaker 3: It sounds like the song sort of evolve a lot
Speaker 3: from the time you bring them in into the band.
Speaker 3: Are there any that you were sort of surprised by
Speaker 3: or went in a direction that was extremely satisfying?
Speaker 2: I mean this countless because I think it's like, as
Speaker 2: much as maybe the songs tend to begin with me,
Speaker 2: for the most part, the thing that makes them so
Speaker 2: exciting is like I would never predict where they're going
Speaker 2: to go.
Speaker 4: And and that's like something that I wanted from the
Speaker 4: very beginning of the band, and it still happens now
Speaker 4: and it becomes all of our songs, Like as soon
Speaker 4: as I put onto the floor of the rehearsal room,
Speaker 4: so I'm.
Speaker 2: On the slaves record this, you know all of them.
Speaker 2: I can say that for sure. It's because as soon
Speaker 2: as like.
Speaker 4: You know what, Paul, I might do something, and then
Speaker 4: Paul might do something. Sam might be more influenced by
Speaker 4: what Paul's doing than I was doing. Brad now has
Speaker 4: been like writing with us as well playing bass. It's all,
Speaker 4: you know, And I think to me, that's the idea
Speaker 4: is like now the unpredictability of what the end result
Speaker 4: of what we're going to settle on, who's going to
Speaker 4: inspire by who and what which I guess in some
Speaker 4: ways you could say, well that's maybe like a lot
Speaker 4: of bands, so for ours, I think gets made it
Speaker 4: less of you really don't know where this is really
Speaker 4: going to set upon, you know, but I think, you know,
Speaker 4: even like working again like The Burden Serpent, like a well,
Speaker 4: like working on this one and working with Andrew who's
Speaker 4: just like such a orchestration whiz and a musical wiz
Speaker 4: and just you know those you know, just music so
Speaker 4: well from like a compositional standpoint, so he added all
Speaker 4: these great sounds where it's the outro of that song
Speaker 4: and it sort of just has this like it just
Speaker 4: feels like you just enter it to this other world.
Speaker 4: It has another worldliness in a way that's just like
Speaker 4: it's like exotic. This is like certainly there's some sounds
Speaker 4: on that section of song that I've never been on you know,
Speaker 4: any other interpol, yeah, crass, And it's just sort of
Speaker 4: like unexpected from where you're going from from where you've
Speaker 4: already been through this journey, and then all of a
Speaker 4: sudden you're in this like plane.
Speaker 2: I look at this, like this open field of these.
Speaker 4: Like little exotic animals just hopping up and down, and
Speaker 4: this is sort of like an amazing place to be.
Speaker 4: And so I love the fact that that was created,
Speaker 4: in the fact that we were all like really receptive
Speaker 4: to that, versus.
Speaker 2: Being like no, no, no, no, that can't be on
Speaker 2: an imple record.
Speaker 4: It's more like, yes, I can be in an a
Speaker 4: pole record, and it's like it should be. And so
Speaker 4: these are things in some ways where a now that
Speaker 4: have it, you know, existed like I would say, like
Speaker 4: you know, from NYC from the first record too on,
Speaker 4: you know, I love to admire like on our very
Speaker 4: first track, Pioneer to the Falls, like that song it's
Speaker 4: I you know, I still love playing a song and
Speaker 4: the compositionally, there's also like some orchestral elements in it
Speaker 4: that we're not so obviously be on an in apole
Speaker 4: track as if you were like based on when the
Speaker 4: first two records sounded like.
Speaker 2: So I don't.
Speaker 4: I think there's also been things that we've tried to
Speaker 4: be open to and and uh.
Speaker 2: And it's something like you not have not push ourselves.
Speaker 4: I think these are just tastes that we've always had,
Speaker 4: and so when we've encountered like a situation where we
Speaker 4: can go there or be including them, it's just it's
Speaker 4: just felt great. And as long as it's not like
Speaker 4: forced onto it as much as like, oh no, this
Speaker 4: is a it makes sense that we've arrived at this
Speaker 4: like destined, you know, destination. And I think on this
Speaker 4: latest record there's like a lot of examples on that,
Speaker 4: like just every track has so many more key and
Speaker 4: we've ever had on previous records and sounds and so forth.
Speaker 4: And I think that was definitely something that Andrew wanted
Speaker 4: to bring forth and those and for me, that was
Speaker 4: exactly what I was hoping that he would introduce.
Speaker 3: Have you started thinking about the next album yet? Are
Speaker 3: you still just locked in on on this one?
Speaker 4: I mean, I think I love writing music, so I'm all,
Speaker 4: you know, like a little like animal. I think I'm
Speaker 4: always like kind of like always like trying to like
Speaker 4: chisel away and work on stuff. So it's like, as
Speaker 4: I I'm so now, like every moment that I'm not
Speaker 4: on the road, I followed ever routine that I was
Speaker 4: you know, speaking of, and just try to like, you know,
Speaker 4: I think I probably I mean there's a degree of
Speaker 4: like I like having something that's going on that I'm
Speaker 4: like excited about that I want to kind of keep
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 2: Nurturing and trying to building and so forth.
Speaker 4: And I feel that way now certainly, But then you
Speaker 4: also want to be open.
Speaker 2: Well maybe there's even more that you can do, you know,
Speaker 2: you don't want to. It's nice to have those like things.
Speaker 4: That you're already the concerting on, but it's also like, well,
Speaker 4: let's get through those things, because then you can have
Speaker 4: like an open palette and you never know what's going
Speaker 4: to get introduced. And I think that's part of like
Speaker 4: the exciting element of trying to do this. You want,
Speaker 4: you know, stay unexpected and what all of a sudden
Speaker 4: you find yourself like working on the like where did
Speaker 4: this come from? You know? And those are those are
Speaker 4: the things that I feel like very alluring and you
Speaker 4: hope for you know, and you can't for me at least,
Speaker 4: I can't really force them. I think there's certain people
Speaker 4: who can just write, you know, ten hours a day
Speaker 4: and have like a hundred songs a year.
Speaker 2: I'm not quite like that, I think. I like, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit.
Speaker 4: More like a fisherman and it just puts a fishing
Speaker 4: rod in the water and then hope something bites and
Speaker 4: you never know when it does.
Speaker 2: But the important thing is to go fishing every day.
Speaker 3: Do you pick up the guitar at any other points
Speaker 3: during the day or is it strictly the morning routine
Speaker 3: with the coffee in the film?
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, it's it's I will do.
Speaker 4: Like over times, I realized I just don't have the
Speaker 4: same like obviously, you know, like as far as writing, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I don't have the same sort of like connection as
Speaker 4: far as like creativity.
Speaker 2: Obviously.
Speaker 4: You can play shows at night, you know, like sometimes
Speaker 4: super late at night and so forth, So it's not
Speaker 4: that's just but that's like a different thing.
Speaker 2: That's like an emotional like release.
Speaker 4: You know, And but you know, it's like I can
Speaker 4: I in the afternoons or other times a day if
Speaker 4: I'm like more like recording on my own where I
Speaker 4: might you know, I know what I want to do.
Speaker 4: It's a matter of like exercising it better, like I
Speaker 4: can do things like that, and I do do that,
Speaker 4: but it's as far as creating.
Speaker 2: I don't know why, but I guess it's like this
Speaker 2: is something that I just realized for me.
Speaker 4: And everyone's wired a little bit differently, but I realized
Speaker 4: that for me a long time ago, and then I
Speaker 4: guess it's like that, you know, friends of mine had
Speaker 4: told me that a lot of creative people over history,
Speaker 4: not just music, that's just kind of like they have
Speaker 4: their own patterns. And I remember seeing this film with
Speaker 4: the director Bergman talking about his routine and you're just
Speaker 4: like really regimented about it, and it was like something
Speaker 4: like the morning time, like nine to noon, he would
Speaker 4: just like lock himself in a study and work on
Speaker 4: on whatever is working on and so forth, like and
Speaker 4: I think there's something about like those kind of routines
Speaker 4: that do make sense to me, like I do identify
Speaker 4: with and yeah, yeah, those patterns.
Speaker 3: You know, it feels good to have a pattern too,
Speaker 3: or have sort of like something you can look forward
Speaker 3: to in a schedule totally.
Speaker 2: I think it centers you a little bit. But it's, uh,
Speaker 2: I think that's to me.
Speaker 4: It's like, that's why it's like having no clock and
Speaker 4: I think not, I don't turn on.
Speaker 2: My phone, I don't I don't look at the world.
Speaker 4: It's just yeah, to me, that's like the biggest luxury
Speaker 4: I can have in those like you know, in this morning,
Speaker 4: So I truly I treasure them.
Speaker 3: I don't want to put you on the spot. But
Speaker 3: because you say film and not movies, I feel like
Speaker 3: you might have some really good recommendations. Do you have
Speaker 3: just like a couple films that you would recommend or
Speaker 3: that you just love or that you could go back
Speaker 3: to or that people should see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's so many, and I'm like it's
Speaker 2: like souls in those moments that you're like.
Speaker 3: I I hate when people ask me questions like this,
Speaker 3: but I.
Speaker 4: Feel like one the one I was mentioned for the
Speaker 4: Passengers are really a unique one. It's because it's like, uh,
Speaker 4: I think Jack Nicholson stars in it, and it's like
Speaker 4: right sick, Yeah, I think he made it like the
Speaker 4: year right after trying to town Sui's you know, he's
Speaker 4: one of you know, world's most famous actors, and yet
Speaker 4: he's making this sort of really by today's standard, should
Speaker 4: be considered a like an independent film, like an art
Speaker 4: house film. And it's shot in I think a shot
Speaker 4: in North Africa, in Barcelona for sure, in in London too,
Speaker 4: but it's also right it's like the year before Franco
Speaker 4: dies of the year, you know, so it's like it's
Speaker 4: like a unique.
Speaker 2: Time and history.
Speaker 4: The scenes places, so you'll see parts of Barcelona in
Speaker 4: a way that like you know, treasure of these galludy buildings.
Speaker 4: And there's also so much space in the film itself.
Speaker 4: There's like it's like a atmospheric like ambient space. There's
Speaker 4: like not it's not flood to a dialogue, but there's
Speaker 4: a plot and there's like a little bit of a
Speaker 4: mystery to it. And uh Antonioni's one of my favorite
Speaker 4: directors and just so like just and he has a
Speaker 4: sense of cultivating like atmosphere that just really it's like meditative,
Speaker 4: you know. It's really it's a great film to see
Speaker 4: in the movie theater if you ever have the opportunity,
Speaker 4: Like there's over like a retrospect, so.
Speaker 2: That film, I do I love bad Land is.
Speaker 4: Like you know by you know, Terrence Mallet's fairst film
Speaker 4: was a film that was like I can go back
Speaker 4: to every few years for sure that I you know,
Speaker 4: I really love I feel like The Phantom Spread, you know, I.
Speaker 2: Feel like that's actually like a really like a perfect film.
Speaker 4: There's so many films all over the place, so it
Speaker 4: seems from marriage Bart Bergman's like, amazing, I'll say a
Speaker 4: different thing.
Speaker 2: And I also to you know, what I really love
Speaker 2: is Fastbenders, Uh, Ali.
Speaker 4: Fury, It's The Soul. That's a really great film. It's
Speaker 4: like really different from his work, is like it just
Speaker 4: has a different vibe. But there's something so tinmeless about
Speaker 4: this story, sadly true about human nature, and it read
Speaker 4: you know, it's made like early seventies, but somehow it's
Speaker 4: there's a commonality that resonates to say as much as
Speaker 4: it would then, but there's also a sweetness and a
Speaker 4: love story to it as well. And yeah, I can
Speaker 4: go back and watch that film every few years too.
Speaker 4: Ali Fears The Soul and I love Tony Tony Irtman too.
Speaker 4: It's a great film to the came a couple of
Speaker 4: years ago.
Speaker 3: Cool Okay, I'm watching all of them because I'm in
Speaker 3: a slump.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, if you haven't seen some of the Tony
Speaker 2: Ergan's really good too.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Is there anything else about the new album you
Speaker 3: want to talk about? Or do you want to talk
Speaker 3: about the tour? Is there anything you wanted to sort
Speaker 3: of get in before we sign off?
Speaker 2: Just really excited.
Speaker 4: I mean, I know it's probably like the job of
Speaker 4: like a you know, I think of a band to
Speaker 4: be sort of raw rah rah on you know, the
Speaker 4: new record and so forth, but it was really like
Speaker 4: something that we felt like really great about and it
Speaker 4: just felt like sometimes I think you it's such a
Speaker 4: I remember something like reading this interviewsue with Kee from
Speaker 4: Gods like years ago, or seeing something I don't remember
Speaker 4: how long ago was, but something he said really resonated
Speaker 4: to me in a way that maybe even then I
Speaker 4: didn't understand because I hadn't I don't know what stage
Speaker 4: of recording I was at, but it was something about
Speaker 4: I think along the lines of like when you record
Speaker 4: a song or whatever, like the version of the recording.
Speaker 2: That you make becomes the song.
Speaker 4: You know, maybe you play the like countless other times,
Speaker 4: and that recording is the song, you know, and sometimes
Speaker 4: like that version that can go on away. You know,
Speaker 4: you write a song, you rehearse it a lot of times,
Speaker 4: and that maybe you know, everything can go any resurrection
Speaker 4: when you're making a record, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But whatever version you released becomes the song itself.
Speaker 4: So it's like, yeah, I don't know if that makes sense,
Speaker 4: but to me, that really resonated.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, wow, okay, that's actually like really and.
Speaker 4: I think it would take from someone who's who's done
Speaker 4: this that you understand or you know, to feel it
Speaker 4: because you're like, wow, that's really becomes like maybe you
Speaker 4: had an off day that one day, or maybe like
Speaker 4: two days later when better, or maybe if you had
Speaker 4: just done this one of a thing. It really takes
Speaker 4: like a piece like finding peace, being like, well, this
Speaker 4: is what we said and this is the document that
Speaker 4: we made, and therefore we need to move on.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what you have to eventually do.
Speaker 2: I think of the making of this record, though, I
Speaker 2: felt like really like really good.
Speaker 4: About everything, all of our choices, and we certainly had
Speaker 4: like you know, some hurdles along the way and so
Speaker 4: forth that we had to take, you know, make and
Speaker 4: but I feel like just the record we made, it's
Speaker 4: like a really cohesive album. And obviously we're the same people.
Speaker 4: We're so in a pool, and you know we're gonna
Speaker 4: have the sexibility will be there, you know, and may
Speaker 4: be recognizable.
Speaker 2: But I do think it's like an evolution.
Speaker 4: I think it's a progressive record and I don't know,
Speaker 4: it feels like a great next chapter for us, and
Speaker 4: also one that just like really felt like nothing is
Speaker 4: forced about it. Just probably this is like what we
Speaker 4: said next, and this is something that I think we've
Speaker 4: been aspiring to say for a while and I think
Speaker 4: we've arrived with this with this album.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, it's a really really good Interpol album.
Speaker 3: And I saw I know you don't pay attention to critics,
Speaker 3: but I did see the Guardian called it your masterpiece.
Speaker 4: I had just heard that they had actually hears that word.
Speaker 4: And this is such a while that. I mean, it's
Speaker 4: like where your brain's like, wait what you know, you know,
Speaker 4: I'll take it. But that's really amazing the year, you know,
Speaker 4: that's really.
Speaker 3: Yeah, best of luck with all of it, have fun
Speaker 3: on tour, and thank you so much for doing this.
Speaker 3: I appreciate your time, Thank you.
Speaker 2: So Lovely, a chatting fun.
Speaker 1: An episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist
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Speaker 1: Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.