1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, got to have you back on normally the 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: show with normalist takes for when the news gets weird. 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: I am Mary Catherine Ham. 4 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 2: And I'm Carol Markowitz. 5 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Well, we do have to talk about debate night because 6 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 1: it may be the last time that candidates are on 7 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: stage during this general election for a big TV audience. 8 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: Last night, vice presidential candidates Jadie Vance and Tim Walls 9 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: took the stage in New York, and we're going to 10 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: chat a little bit about how that went down, particularly 11 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: the parts that we think say something about the larger 12 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: race and what we have moving forward. 13 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it was a great debate in a 14 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: lot of ways. I have some serious complaints about it too, 15 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: But I do like that they got into some issues 16 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 2: they were There wasn't any yelling, I like, no yelling. 17 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: Generally polite and very personable, right. I think that that's 18 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: the way it should be. Problems with the debate is 19 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 2: that it's all on democratic terms. It's not even just 20 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 2: the biased moderators, right. These debates happen on democratic issues. 21 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 2: The only mention of the open border was about separating 22 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: families January sixth. Questions in every single debate, like how 23 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 2: much more can we hear about it. Zero mention of 24 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 2: our education collapse because Biden and Harris let Randy Winegarden 25 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: rewrite CDC policy and keep schools closed during COVID and 26 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 2: we still have not recovered from that. So I think 27 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 2: these are issues that you know, if this was a 28 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 2: Democratic primary debate, fine, but it's not. And that is 29 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: really kind of my central problem with these debates and 30 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: why I don't know that Republicans should be agreeing to 31 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 2: these kinds of debate formats in the future. These are 32 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: far left moderators. It's on left stations, and Republicans and 33 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: moderates get very little out of these debates. Again, if 34 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: it was just Democratic primary, that's one thing. It's not, 35 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 2: and I don't think that it should be the format 36 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: going forward. 37 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: Well, and there's also only one set of voters getting 38 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: things out of it if you only address things from 39 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: one point of view. Although I will say lest anyone 40 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: think that our complaints about the moderators indicate that JD. 41 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: Vance did not have a good performance, Yeah, that's incorrect. 42 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: He gave about as close to a tour de force 43 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: in modern debating as you're going to get from a 44 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: candidate and One of the advantages of having a candidate 45 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: who is smart, deft, has the facts down, is relating 46 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: to the audience and the moderators and his opponent in 47 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: a nice way, is that every question can be turned 48 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: into a question that he wants to answer. And that 49 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: is basically what happened the entire night, where he was 50 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 1: sort of shifting, but shifting in a way that went 51 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: two kitchen table issues that went from a really good 52 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: example is the hurricane question. And actually, we'll just play 53 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: a club, but here's the hurricane question. 54 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 3: Let's turn out to Hurricane Helene. The storm could become 55 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 3: one of the deadliest on record. More than one hundred 56 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 3: and sixty people are dead and hundreds more are missing. 57 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 3: Scientists say climate change makes these hurricanes larger, stronger, and 58 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 3: more deadly because of the historic rainfall. Senator Vance. According 59 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 3: to CBS News polling, seven to ten Americans and more 60 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 3: than sixty percent of Republicans under the age of forty 61 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 3: five favor the US taking steps to try and reduce 62 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 3: climate change. Senator, what responsibility would the Trump administration have 63 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 3: to try and reduce the impact of climate change. I'll 64 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 3: give you two minutes to me. 65 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: This came off as near sociopathic to address the hurricane, 66 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: where the dead have still not been recovered, much less buried. 67 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: Many people are still being rescued. The search and rescue 68 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: attempts are underway and will be underway for a very 69 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: long time. Recovery will take years. And they're like, but 70 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: could we do a fantasy carbon tax one day? 71 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 4: Right? 72 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: I just that's not the question in the moment unless 73 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: you are a moderator or a far left ideologue. Yeah. 74 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: Vance was like, let me talk about the people who 75 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: are actually affected. 76 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, he did fantastic, And I, you know, I agree 77 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: again that question is for a Democratic primary audience where 78 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 2: they could come up with all kinds of lalla land 79 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: plans for the future where they're going to retrofit every 80 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 2: single building in America, and they're, you know, we're gonna 81 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 2: all stop using all fossil fuels, while China will continue 82 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 2: and India will continue, and all the other countries that 83 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 2: are actually, you know, perhaps causing the problems will continue 84 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 2: to use fossil fuels. So I, you know, I again 85 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: think that the questions were awful, but Vance did amazing 86 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: Walls was very very nervous, visibly nervous. He talked super quickly, 87 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: and then the moderators of course couldn't help but editorialize 88 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 2: to help him. But you know, in the end, Vance's 89 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 2: favorables went way up after this debate, which of course 90 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: makes sense. He put on just a fantastic performance. A 91 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 2: CNN poll had his favorables up by twenty, CBS had 92 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 2: his favorables up by nine. One of the men came 93 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 2: off as incredibly weird and it wasn't JD. Vance, And 94 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: it wasn't just because Wall said he was friends with 95 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 2: school shooters. 96 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. A point that Guy Benson made, which I think 97 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: is important, is that the school shooter line is one 98 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: where you're like, did I just hear that? And it 99 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: turned out it did. Now what he meant, of course, 100 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: that he is he friends with the survivors and the 101 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: families of those who have died in school shootings. We 102 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: can all goof on that a bitstand that it's a misstatement. 103 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: What's not a misstatement are his lies about his service. 104 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: Are his lies about being in Hong Kong during Tanneman Square, 105 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: which he was completely flat footed on last night. That's 106 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: something that's been reported where it turns out he was 107 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: home in Nebraska during the Tanneman Square right right when 108 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: he said he was in Hong Kong, and this is documented, 109 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: and this news was out well before the debate. He 110 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: could have anticipated a question on it and come up 111 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: with an answer, but instead he froze because the answer 112 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: is he lied about it, and he just said, well, 113 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: I'm a knucklehead, and that's not sufficient even for those 114 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: moderators who were big, who were big fans. And that's 115 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: another way like democrats I think are disadvantaged sometimes by 116 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: media kid gloves, because he didn't anticipate the question because 117 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: he thought they'd be nicer to him in that moment. 118 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: I think he even got a follow up, which we 119 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: don't have the hold of funerals. We don't have a 120 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: hold of funeral for the idea of the follow up 121 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: question apparently, and I don't think he anticipated that. And 122 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: he hasn't practiced taking tough questions. 123 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: Well, he doesn't feel like he has to write all 124 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 2: the interviewers are going to be on his side and 125 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 2: want him to win and have him portrayed in the 126 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 2: best possible light. You know, we talked about it last episode, 127 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 2: but Kamala Harris has only done two interviews and one 128 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 2: of them was with an interviewer who doesn't think she 129 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 2: should have to answer difficult questions. So of course these 130 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: people are out of practice, and of course they don't 131 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 2: think that they're going to get tough questions. And it showed, 132 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 2: it really showed, it really did. 133 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: A question that Vance has had to answer many times, 134 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: of course, is on his changing views on Trump, and 135 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: because he's been asked it every time he's sat down, 136 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: and I would note he's even asked it when he 137 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: sits down at Fox. Hannity has asked him that question. 138 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: Those journalists who people believe or allied with Trump and 139 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: Vance have asked tougher questions of Trump and Vance than 140 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: liberal but allegedly objective journalists have asked of the other side. 141 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: And I think it would help them if they asked 142 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: sure of. 143 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: Course questions well or going through a primary, right, going 144 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 2: through a primary gets a candidate ready for the general 145 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: election fight. Kamala Harris didn't have to do that, and 146 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 2: again it shows. So I also want to add, obviously 147 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: you're right that it was a misspeak about the school shooter. Friends, 148 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: and of course Guy Benson is you know, all of 149 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 2: our moral compass because he really, really is. But think 150 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: about if this happened on other side, for sure, jd 151 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: Vance friends with school shooters. I mean, it would just 152 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 2: be the ad Donald Trump, and I read articles all 153 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 2: the time where he's literally accused of saying there will 154 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: be a bloodbath if he doesn't get elected, and that's 155 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 2: just not what he said. So there's so many lies 156 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 2: like that constantly being told about the right. But we 157 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 2: and correctly again live up to the guy events and 158 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 2: standard and we say Tim Walls not actually friends of 159 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: school shooters. But you know, I'd love that same grace 160 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: for our side as well. 161 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: Oh I would too. The one that the one that 162 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: always gets me is it wasn't a misspeak, but it 163 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: was the idea that they hyped that Beyonce was going 164 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: to come to the DNC. And yeah, just imagine a 165 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: situation like that is an embarrassment. That's just flat out 166 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: an embarrassment. If you say Beyonce's coming to your birthday 167 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: party and she doesn't come to your birthday party, that's 168 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: embarrassing for you. The other kids make fun of you, yes, 169 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: but it was not treated that way because it was 170 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: just like, well, I guess it got a lot of 171 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: eyeballs on this like that's okay, and that's okay. 172 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 2: Lying is okay if it gets a lot of eyeballs 173 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 2: for democrats. 174 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: Was there a moment, Carol that really stood out to 175 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: you that that matters for the race moving forward, either 176 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: symbolically or for what actually was said. 177 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 2: So you touched on this, But the moment for me 178 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,719 Speaker 2: was the Tianaman Square answer, And Mary Catherine and I 179 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 2: said we would talk about our key moments of the debate, 180 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: and we didn't tell each other what our moments would be, 181 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 2: so we'll see what if we have the same one 182 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 2: or not. But Tim Walls admitting that he lied about 183 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: being in Tianaman Square, and for the youngsters listening, it 184 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: was pro democracy protests in China in nineteen eighty nine. 185 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 2: It was a really big deal. Many people were killed 186 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 2: and these protests were ultimately put down, very symbolic of 187 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 2: people who want to be free around the world. And 188 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 2: Tim Walls said that he was there. He was in 189 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 2: Hong Kong, right, right, Sorry, he was in Hong Kong 190 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 2: when this happened. Now he's telling us he was riding 191 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 2: his bike in Nebraska when he was a kid, and 192 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: we're like, why are you telling us this with the 193 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 2: long answer didn't go anywhere, and it was awkward, and 194 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: it showed that he had lied multiple times. This isn't 195 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 2: like he said at one time in passing. He did 196 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 2: not misspeak. This was purposeful. And it goes to the 197 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 2: same thing as him lying about his military service. It 198 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: wasn't one time, it was many times, and he continues 199 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 2: to get a passed on it. But last night Americans 200 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: got to see him truly fumble with this lie. And 201 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 2: I think it is going to make a difference because 202 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 2: this midwestern everyman that they were trying to betray him 203 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 2: as just quite didn't work last night when he had 204 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: to admit to lying about this, And so that was 205 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 2: my big moment of the night. It shattered the tim walls. 206 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 2: You know, persona that the Democrats have worked so hard 207 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 2: to build up with keeping him from the media, and 208 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 2: I don't know that he recovers from that. 209 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: We'll be right back on normally. I think both candidates 210 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: violated the narrative last night, right Vance was personable, seemed likable, 211 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: so normal, smart, normal, And they're still trying desperately as 212 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: people tweeting like why did he keep calling his children beautiful? 213 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: That's weird. It's not it's not weird. 214 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 2: It's not weird at all. 215 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: That's not weird at all. Speaking with just a side 216 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: side note, whatever Usha Vance was wearing, I wanted to 217 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: see more of it. Yes, she looked amazing and my 218 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: I think my moment actually and this is a this 219 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: is a pet issue of mine, but I also think 220 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: it's very very important for the country. 221 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 2: What it's going to be is I. 222 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: Know Tim Walls betraying once again that he neither cares 223 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: about nor knows anything about the first event. 224 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 2: Uh that fire in a movie theater. Screaming fire in 225 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 2: a movie theater. 226 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: I thought of you, So I want to do I 227 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: want to actually play first a clip on him talking 228 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: about hate speech and misinformation. So let's play that. 229 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 4: But you guys attack us for not believing in democracy, 230 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 4: the most sacred right under the United States, Democracy is 231 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 4: the first amendment. You yourself have said, there's no first Amendment 232 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 4: right to misinformation. Kamala Harris wants to threaten how to 233 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 4: be government and big tech to silence people from speaking 234 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 4: their minds. That is a threat to democracy that will 235 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 4: long outlive this present political moment. I would like democrats 236 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 4: and Republicans to both reject censorship. Let's persuade one another, 237 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 4: Let's argue about ideas, and then let's come together afterwards. 238 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 5: You can't yell fire in a crowded theaters. That's the test. 239 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 5: That's the Supreme Court tsk Tim fire in a crowded theater. 240 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 4: You guys wanted to kick people off of Facebook for 241 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 4: saying that Toddler shouldn't floor to fire and a crowded theater. 242 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 4: That is criticizing the policies of the government, which is 243 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 4: the right of every America. 244 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: So that is Tim Walls, who wants to be the 245 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: Vice president of the United States of America saying there 246 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: is a hate speech exception to the First Amendment. That 247 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: is just absolutely not real. That is ignorant. And the 248 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: problem is that that says to me, as he has 249 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: said before, that he feels he has the power to 250 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: remove hate speech such that he deems it and to 251 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: remove misinformation and disinformation. This is a problem we've run into, 252 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: certainly during the COVID era many times where the government 253 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: has decided there's certain information we're not allowed to talk about, right, 254 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: and I think it is very dangerous. Dare I say 255 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: it to democracy for the federal government to say, I 256 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: don't know, collude with social media platforms, to say that 257 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: a true story during the twenty twenty election about Hunter 258 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: Biden's laptop is not a true story, and to thrash 259 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: it in service with the Democratic ticket. I think that's bad. 260 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 2: I think also get YouTube to remove doctors talking about 261 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 2: how face masks don't prevent the spread of COVID that 262 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: was removed from YouTube. I mean, things like that are 263 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 2: just you know, you can call it whatever you want, 264 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 2: but it's censorship. It's against the First Amendment. And Tim 265 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: Walls tried to repeat the hate each thing last night. 266 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 2: It was during the din of the debate, so I 267 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 2: don't know that people really heard it, but he tried 268 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 2: to say not hate speech. When you know when Van 269 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 2: said about the First Amendment, and he says it's not 270 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 2: protected by hate, she just not protected. 271 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: He also said, as you note this other pet peeve 272 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: of mine, let's play the clip. 273 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 4: I would like Democrats and Republicans to both reject censorship. 274 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 4: Let's persuade one another, Let's argue about ideas, and then 275 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 4: let's come together afterwards. 276 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 5: You can't yell fire in a crowded theater that's the test. 277 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 5: That's the Supreme Court test. 278 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: I want to give a class on Shink and Brandenburg 279 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: in the First Amendment and yelling fire in a crowded theater, 280 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: which is not a Supreme Court test for speech. It 281 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: comes from an overturned case. And let me just briefly 282 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: describe it. Because lefties are always saying you can't y'all 283 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: fire in a crowded theater. That was a phrase used 284 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: in a decision from Oliver Wendell Holmes, where he said 285 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: it was the case was about the Socialist Party of 286 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: Philadelphia distributing flyers opposing the draft during World War One, 287 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: So like this was a phrase used against your socialist 288 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: pacifist buds right by saying the First Amendment has its 289 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: limits and this is one of them. And that was 290 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: luckily later overturned. But the fact that this is sort 291 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: of in the geist, yes, is a problem because it's 292 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: not true that you can't yell a crowdit theater, and 293 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: they use it just as a offhanded, very casual way 294 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: to limit what you're allowed to say. It also just 295 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: betrays ignorance and a lack of care about this issue, 296 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: and it makes me upset. 297 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand that libertarians exploded on X last night. 298 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 2: As soon as you said it, it was like, I 299 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 2: think Matt Walsh sorry, Matt Welsch said, you know, fire 300 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 2: in a crowdit theater drink. Yeah, it's concerning that the 301 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 2: VP candidate is not into free speech and that the 302 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: moderators and media people have very little problem with that. 303 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,959 Speaker 2: I'll have to say one more thing about the debate 304 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 2: is the Tim Walls is kind of the future of 305 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,959 Speaker 2: the Democrats, right, That's usually what the vice presidential candidate is. 306 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 2: And I think most people will say, yeah, maybe jd. 307 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,239 Speaker 2: Vance is the future of the Republican Party, and that 308 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 2: makes sense. He's young, he's vibrant, he's really smart. Perhaps 309 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 2: he is next in line, right, Walls is older and 310 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 2: kind of shows that the Democrats really don't have much 311 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 2: of a bench. Who is up after this election, you know, 312 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 2: win or lose? Right, So let's say Kamala wins Walls 313 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 2: is the next candidate up after her. 314 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: Questionable if she loses. 315 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 2: Walls is definitely not the next candidate up. So who 316 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 2: is it? And it's interesting again that the Republicans, who 317 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 2: are technically normally seen as the older party, have a 318 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 2: young vibrant bench. You know, obviously, I think my Governor 319 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis is on it. Jd Vance obviously on it. 320 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 2: Lots of young candidates to potentially, you know, the governor 321 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 2: of Virginia. Obviously, we have a lot of people and 322 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 2: they really don't well. 323 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: And I think in this case, and there might be 324 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: some buyer's remorse here, the young vibrant bench. Josh Shapiro, 325 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: governor of Pennsylvania, was passed over because the frankly left 326 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: wing of the party that is largely anti Semitic and 327 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: definitely anti Israel might have had a problem. They did 328 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: with him being on the ticket. 329 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 2: Right, you saw kind of the outcry when he was 330 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 2: being considered, and it was obvious because again the Democrats, 331 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 2: whatever they end up doing on Israel, what they say 332 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: on Israel is often quite close to correct. 333 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 4: Right. 334 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 2: I don't think Tim Walls has ever said anything different 335 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 2: than Jos Shapiro has said on Israel. So it really 336 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 2: was the fact that he was Jewish and that Democratic 337 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 2: voters were going to revolt. He would have been so 338 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 2: much better. Last night, I was just thinking about how 339 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: lucky Republicans are to have dodged that, And you're right, 340 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 2: maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that that is their bench, but 341 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 2: that is a fairly small bench well. 342 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: And it's telling that he was passed over despite his 343 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: obvious skill and obvious appeal in this must win swing stakes. 344 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 2: Right, That's like they need Pennsylvania like. 345 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: That, Like you're from Pennsylvania and you're really good, and 346 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: they're like, pass, that's for us. Yeah, So yeah, I 347 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: do think that that signals something about them too. I 348 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 1: don't do we think this matters. I saw tweet or 349 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: something on substack. I believe from Andrew Sullivan, who you know, 350 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: is hard to pin down ideologically, to to put it lightly, 351 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: but it's not a man of the right, and he 352 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 1: said that the Vance performance said to him, if Vans 353 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: were at the top of the ticket, he'd be comfortable 354 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,719 Speaker 1: voting for him. So to me, that is like, if 355 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: it's giving people a little bit of comfort about the 356 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: top of the ticket that they might be nervous about, 357 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: which is a much smaller ask than thinking that Vance 358 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: should be at the top of the ticket, that could 359 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: make a small difference, and a small difference is a 360 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: lot in a very close election. 361 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 2: I think it could. I don't know that I believe 362 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 2: Andrew Sullivan you know, I think it's a bit fine 363 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 2: reasons not to support that ticket anyway, but it's. 364 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 1: A bit changeable over the years. 365 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 4: Yes, you know, I. 366 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 2: Would say Andrew Sullivan is the very first like media 367 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 2: figure that I gave money to. He had like a 368 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 2: tip jar back in you know, the early two thousands, 369 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,719 Speaker 2: and I that tip jar for ten bucks, and I 370 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 2: still kind of regret it. 371 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: He's been on a journey. 372 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he's a great writer, he's an interesting character. 373 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: I just yeah, the hard to pin down for better 374 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 2: or I don't believe he'd vote for JD. Vans. 375 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: I just don't. But I think he's emblematic of maybe 376 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: people who have discomfort with the ticket and could be 377 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: won over by a very, very commanding performance, which is 378 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: what that was. 379 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 3: Right. 380 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 2: I hope Trump lives a long, happy life, but you 381 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 2: have to note that he is getting up there in age. 382 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 2: There is some chance of JD. Vance becoming our next 383 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 2: president before any terms are up again. I hope that 384 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: doesn't happen. I hope he lives, you know, to one 385 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty, as the Jews say, but it's all possible. 386 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 2: And look, we just had a president drop out of 387 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 2: the presidential race because he was simply too old. Who 388 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 2: your VP is suddenly matters in a way that it 389 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 2: didn't matter before. I think this debate was one that 390 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,959 Speaker 2: people watched because BPS matter more today. 391 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would have loved a question, by the way, 392 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: like say, your president, I don't know his brain's not working. 393 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: What is your constitutional duty as you view it in 394 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: that moment? And how would you go about addressing that issue? 395 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 4: Just right? 396 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: Apropos of nothing, just yeah, just asking asking for a 397 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: friend whose name is Joe Biden, Kama Harrison. We'll be 398 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: right back in a second. On normal. I want to 399 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about our in case you missed it, Yeah, 400 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: which is on Thursdays. 401 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 2: We do in case you missed it, an undercovered story 402 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 2: that we feel should be getting more attention. 403 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: And this is a bit debate related in that I 404 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: actually checked it. I fact checked myself, Carol k through twelve. 405 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 1: Education has not been mentioned in any of. 406 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 2: The bids, right because who cares about kids? Like January sixth, 407 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 2: Let's talk about January sixth somewhere well. 408 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: And it's you know, many things can be important. But sure, 409 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: I do think that the idea that we had a 410 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: huge number of students in this country K through twelve 411 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: just not attend school for about two years eighteen months, right, well. 412 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 2: And it was the poorest kids also. It was you know, 413 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 2: I talk about this a lot, but when I was 414 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 2: living in Brooklyn and I was living in a very 415 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 2: far left area park slope, everybody around me who didn't 416 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 2: say a word about school openings went to private school, 417 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 2: got tutors for their kids, moved to their beach house, 418 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 2: and sent the kids to school there, got a pod 419 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 2: figured it out because they were wealthy and they could 420 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 2: do that. But the poorest kids in the country did 421 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 2: not get to go to school for a very long time, 422 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 2: and we have not recovered from that. 423 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, they paid a huge price. They will continue paying 424 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: it for probably a decade or more because you have 425 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: to figure out how to call back all of this 426 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: learning loss. It's a giant problem. It's a giant problem 427 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: that touches people's lives. And because largely Democrats and teachers' 428 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: unions are too blame for it, there's not discussion about it. 429 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: But I think normal people look at the performance they're 430 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: getting from their education product and wonder, what are you 431 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: doing for me? I'm paying a lot of taxes. That's right, 432 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: but this is not working out for me. 433 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 2: So average math scores fell by nine points between twenty 434 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 2: and twenty three. Reading scores fell by four points. And 435 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 2: these numbers are far higher in some places and far 436 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 2: lower in other places like Florida. 437 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: The New York. 438 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 2: Times famously spent several articles tearing apart the Orthodox Jewish 439 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: asivism in New York as having weak education, without ever 440 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 2: noting the public schools in their own city and throughout 441 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 2: the country that are doing even worse. 442 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: No. 443 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, at the debates, and you're right, it's because Trump 444 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 2: and Vance will just say, let parents take the money 445 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 2: for their kids out of these failing schools and send 446 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 2: them wherever they want, and Harrison Walls will say, no, don't. 447 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 2: And that's not enough for the moder readers. 448 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, can I on this same subject and we can 449 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: talk real quick about maybe our tips for parents getting 450 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: their kids to read. An Atlantic piece that's certain, Oh yeah, previews, 451 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: how bad this could get in the future. An Atlantic 452 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: piece this week talks about how elite college students can't 453 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: read books. Carol. Now, you and I grew up in 454 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: the eighties and nineties, and I feel like This was 455 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: a recurring after school special type very special episode of 456 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: Boy Meets World where you'll find out that someone's illiterate. 457 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 2: Yep, we just watched a league of their own and 458 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 2: the girl can't find her name on the list because 459 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 2: she can't read. I look at my kids, like see this. 460 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: Well, so now it's a little different, which is that 461 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: these kids are going to Colombia and a little different. 462 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: What has happened is, look, I think Colombia is probably 463 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,719 Speaker 1: recruiting for the wrong things. But essentially it looks like 464 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: kids on their devices, kids distracted by many things. Kids 465 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: not taught to read full books during middle and high 466 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: school are ending up in college where they're supposed to 467 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: study literature and they are absolutely unable to do so. 468 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: It says, failing to complete a fourteen line poem without 469 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: succumbing to distraction suggests a familiar explanation for the decline, 470 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: which is devices. And then there's a quote. It's changed 471 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: expectations about what's worthy of attention. Being bored has become 472 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: a natural. Reading books even for pleasure can't compete with 473 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: TikTok instagram YouTube. In nineteen seventy six, about forty percent 474 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: of high school seniors said they had read at least 475 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: six books for fun in the previous year, compared with 476 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: eleven point five percent who hadn't read any. By twenty 477 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: twenty two, the percentages had flipped. Maybe does this happened? 478 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: We let this happen. 479 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 2: It was a lot of Yes, it's the distractions and 480 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 2: all of that. But the kids are passing English, and 481 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 2: they're passing because the teachers are being. 482 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: Told just pass them, just pass them. 483 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 4: Well. 484 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: At Harvard, yeah, great. Inflation is like seventy plus percent 485 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: are making a's awful while doing much less work. There 486 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: was an interview with one There's a lot of anecdotes 487 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: in here because it's hard to nael down data on this, 488 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: but one ap English teacher in Atlanta said that she 489 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: used to assign fourteen books a year. She's down to 490 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 1: six or seven. They simply can't do it right and 491 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: it is disturbing. A couple of professors told me that 492 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: their students see reading books as akin to listening to 493 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: vinyl records, something that a small psychn culture mays. They're 494 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: back in. I know this is what Maybe we should 495 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: make them during cool something that a small subculture may 496 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: still enjoy, but that's mostly a relic of an earlier time. 497 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, my fourteen year old, who reads these like 498 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 2: gigantic books and bullies her brothers into reading two is 499 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 2: super into vinyl records, So maybe they're related. 500 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: That we should code it as like vinyl record cool. Yeah, 501 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: my kids read several books cover to cover a week. 502 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: In fact, I wish I read as much as them. 503 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: I still come to the devices more than they do 504 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: because I'm allowed to and they have strict strictures that 505 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: I put on them. Yeah, but I find this like 506 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: pretty disturbing because these are the high level kids who 507 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: had the resources to get through the pandemic. Then you've 508 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: got a much worse problem with those who did not 509 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: have the income and the resources and the flexibility to 510 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: deal with the lack of school for a year and 511 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: a half. 512 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 2: I just all of that is we give these kids 513 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 2: a too easy path, and I, you know, I'm guilty 514 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 2: of it myself. Obviously. My kids do use screens, but 515 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 2: it's super limited and there's no TikTok in our house, 516 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 2: nothing like that. They're not allowed to use screens outside, 517 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 2: which has become so prevalent. I not just tea my 518 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 2: teen daughter and her. You know, teenagers using on their phones. 519 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: I see all the time we live in Florida. People 520 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 2: we go to the beach. People kids on their iPads 521 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 2: on the beach, at the beach, at the beach, or 522 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 2: in restaurants like where when the kids were little and 523 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 2: we went out to eat or something, maybe at the 524 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 2: end when they're melting down, you'd hand them a phone 525 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 2: to watch, you know, Sesame Street. Now the kids sit 526 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 2: down at the restaurant and the parents hand out the 527 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 2: iPads to everybody, so it's the whole dinner. I just 528 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 2: think we've gotten to a really, really bad place with this, 529 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 2: and I see some change on this. The Anxious Generation 530 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 2: by Jonathan Hate has become a book that a lot 531 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 2: of schools are recommending to parents, and they're limiting how 532 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 2: much kids are allowed to use screens during schools as well, 533 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 2: which is a great step forward. Also, I have to 534 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,719 Speaker 2: say that this is like tangentially related, but the fact 535 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 2: that again the teachers just pass these kids is as 536 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 2: a huge problem. But one thing like I learned moving 537 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 2: from New York to Florida. For example, in New York 538 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 2: there's gifted and talented education, and Florida has something similar 539 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 2: as well gifted education. So in New York, my fifth 540 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 2: grade daughter would be learning sixth grade stuff, right, but 541 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 2: they would test her at her state test would be 542 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 2: on fifth grade stuff, so they would be like, oh, 543 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 2: look at this gifted program. Everybody's doing so amazing. 544 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they're. 545 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 2: Learning a year ahead, but they're testing a year behind. 546 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 2: In Florida, they test you on the year that you're learning, 547 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 2: and so you might have numbers that aren't quite as 548 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 2: amazing as New York, for example, but they're actually being 549 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 2: tested on harder material. So things like that, I just 550 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 2: think we've gotten We've got to get back to rigor 551 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 2: and making things hard for kids. It helps them. It 552 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 2: helped them, and we don't want to have kids who 553 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 2: can't read full books when they get to our elite colleges. 554 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: In Northern Virginia, by the way, they just like sort 555 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: of took a pass on testing for a while, so 556 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: you can't apples to apples anything for the pandemic and 557 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: post pandemic, which was on purpose so that they can 558 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: hide the ball. And I would say, just for my 559 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: I think you and I have the same tech on 560 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,479 Speaker 1: taking our kids to restaurants and training them up from 561 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: a young age. I start. I trained them at waffle 562 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: house because like somebody is having a fight behind the 563 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: counter itself, anybody's going to be bothered by my children. 564 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: So they learned slowly to gain that skill. I also 565 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: when I homeschooled my kids during the pandemic because we 566 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: couldn't get back into physical school and they were too 567 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: young to put on zoom. 568 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 2: I just want to say, this is very different. Mary 569 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 2: Kathine homeschooled her kids. She did not zoom, butler her kids. 570 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 2: She did not like a lot of people think that 571 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 2: they homeschooled their kids during the pandemic. You did not. 572 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 2: You did something else, you did online school, but you 573 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 2: Mary Katherine actually homeschool. 574 00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 4: I did. 575 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: But here's the people would be like, oh my gosh, 576 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: I could never do it, and I was like, it's 577 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: actually easier than so much lorier, right. But the thing 578 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: that I did that gave me hope, and that I 579 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: think is like just key for anybody who wants your 580 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: kids to be readers. I just told myself, keep it simple. 581 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to read to my six year old and 582 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: she's going to read to me. And it was rocky 583 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: and it was hard, and we did it every single 584 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: day because that was like the little thing I knew 585 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: I could do, and man, it opens the door to 586 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: everything else. It really truly does. 587 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, I mean it's not actually rocket science, but 588 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 2: our schools have moved so far away from it that, 589 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 2: you know, school choice is. I super support school choice, 590 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 2: but I also support destroying the current system in public 591 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 2: schools and remaking it with something saner and better and 592 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 2: it's useful. 593 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: Really not performing on that happy note, Thank you so much. 594 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 2: For joining us on this episode of Normally. We air 595 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 2: every Tuesday and Thursday. Please please subscribe, Please tell your friends, 596 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 2: Please have a safe weekend and be normal.