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Speaker 1: Imagine pouring all your love, all your energy, your time,

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Speaker 1: your money, your heart into raising your child, getting her

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Speaker 1: through high school with college ahead. She's an honor student.

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Speaker 1: Of course, she goes on your senior trip and she's

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Speaker 1: never seen alive again. Of course, I'm talking about the

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Speaker 1: Alabama brainy, beauty Natalie Holloway and in the last hours

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Speaker 1: more developments. I Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: This beautiful Alabama girl leaves on her senior trip to

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Speaker 1: Aruba and disappears. Natalie and Holloway last scene driving away

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Speaker 1: from a local nightclub as she was just away on

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Speaker 1: her high school senior trip. She has disappeared. Three guys

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Speaker 1: that escorted Natalie from a restaurant bar, Carlos and Charlie's

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Speaker 1: her last night there on a room, but before she

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Speaker 1: was supposed to leave the next morning. These are the

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Speaker 1: guys she was last seen with. This statement that the

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Speaker 1: boy Van der Slute says, I took her down to

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Speaker 1: the beach. It was around two am and she wanted

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Speaker 1: to stay there, so I left her there alone. This girl,

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Speaker 1: a teen girl, beautiful, brilliant. You know everyone still has

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Speaker 1: in their mind the picture of her out on a

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Speaker 1: football field and her drill outfit doing a dance routine

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Speaker 1: with all of her friends. Her body never recovered, her

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Speaker 1: whereabouts never known. The latest in the search for Natalie Holloway.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nitzy Grays. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us, with me an all star panel starting

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Speaker 1: with Rahul Munchonda, attorney, international law expert, author of Deep State,

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Speaker 1: Defector Who Can Find It? Munchonda Hyphenlaw dot Com. Steve Lampley, detective,

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Speaker 1: author of Outside Your Door, Stephen Lampley dot com, psychoanalyst

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Speaker 1: joining us out of LA doctor Bethany Marshall at Doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot com. Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder of

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Speaker 1: Beer Bones Consulting. But right now to wc IV ABC

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Speaker 1: four Charleston reporter Ann Emerson, and the pain of Natalie's

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Speaker 1: disappearance never goes away and if anyone is expecting yourn Vanderslute,

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Speaker 1: a two time killer, the judge's son who got special

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Speaker 1: treatment in Aruba because his dad's judge. To ever tell

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Speaker 1: what happened to Natalie, that ain't gonna happen, Anne Emerson, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: this case is just transfixed America, the media, anyone who

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Speaker 1: could relate to this. It was the idea of losing

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Speaker 1: your child on a senior trip as they're just about

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Speaker 1: to embark on their whole life. It was just it

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Speaker 1: was more than anyone in America could even bear at

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Speaker 1: the time, and we all felt like we were part

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Speaker 1: of these parents search for this child. It was unbelievable

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Speaker 1: that just one every step they took trying to get

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Speaker 1: this investigation underway, it was on some level impeded, as

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Speaker 1: he said, because he had special privileges on the island,

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Speaker 1: and confusing, and it was it was just like unwrapping

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Speaker 1: this really really complicated package that we're still unpacking. For

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Speaker 1: those of you that recall the disappearance on Natalie Holloway,

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Speaker 1: the America girl straight as student athlete set to go

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Speaker 1: to college to study pre med goes missing on our

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Speaker 1: high school senior trip that was heavily chapera. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our friend Rick Sanchez, Natalie, you can reach

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Speaker 1: me on your cell phone and it's set up for

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Speaker 1: international use now and I will stay here until I

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Speaker 1: find you. Natalie. A mother's desperate plea for her missing

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Speaker 1: daughter Natalie Holloway was among more than a hundred seniors

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Speaker 1: on a graduation trip to a Ruba. They're just typical

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Speaker 1: high school girls out on the beach, on the beach,

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Speaker 1: having a good time on their senior trip. There's nothing unusual.

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Speaker 1: Thousands and thousands of kids go on senior trips every

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Speaker 1: summer and they should. I mean, these are these kids

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Speaker 1: are growing up. Marcia Twitty is Natalie's aunt. She says

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Speaker 1: nobody seemed to notice that when the friends left the nightclub,

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Speaker 1: Natalie wasn't with them. Everybody thought everybody had each other

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Speaker 1: because there's a bunch of them, a bunch. It wasn't,

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Speaker 1: you know, twenty or so. There's a whole bunch of kids,

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Speaker 1: and they all kind of, you know, went in with

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Speaker 1: the bed that night. It wasn't until people started waking

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Speaker 1: up Monday morning ready to return to Birmingham that they

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Speaker 1: realized she was missing. And of course, practically one year

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Speaker 1: to the day later, another young girl and dad at

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Speaker 1: the hands of yourn Vander salute Stephanie Tassiana Flora ass

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Speaker 1: a gorgeous young girl, meets him into casino. By the

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Speaker 1: time he's done with her, she's dead and the floor

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Speaker 1: of his hotel room. He even goes out for coffee

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Speaker 1: in a Danish and comes back to the room and

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Speaker 1: drinks the coffee and eats the Danish about two feet

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Speaker 1: away from her dead body on the floor. But how

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Speaker 1: did Natalie Holloway seemingly slip through everyone's fingers? Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to her friend Francis. Natalie's friend, Francis was staying

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Speaker 1: in an adjacent room. What do you feel like Monday

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Speaker 1: morning when you guys were all getting ready to go

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Speaker 1: and you realize that she wasn't around. We immediately knew

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Speaker 1: something was wrong because her roommates knocked on my door

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Speaker 1: and said that they didn't know where she was. We

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Speaker 1: went straight to the chaperones and they immediately started working

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Speaker 1: on it. They suspected Natalie was still on the island

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Speaker 1: because in her room they found her luggage, found her

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Speaker 1: passport right, but no Natalie. Aruban authorities have been joined

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Speaker 1: by the FBI in the search. So far, that has

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Speaker 1: been little to go on. Three Eruben students did tell investigators, though,

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Speaker 1: that they dropped Natalie off that night at her hotel,

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Speaker 1: But something about that story doesn't sit right with Natalie's aunt. Well,

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Speaker 1: it certainly didn't sit right, and that story quickly changed.

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Speaker 1: Right now we know yourn Vanderslute is sitting in a

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Speaker 1: jail in Peru for the murder of Stephanie Tasciana Flores,

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Speaker 1: another young girl he killed. I believe to the day

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Speaker 1: that Natalie goes missing. Joining me, Raul D. Manchanda attorney,

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Speaker 1: international law expert, author of a book series, Deep State

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Speaker 1: Defector Roll thank you again for being with us. Explain

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Speaker 1: to me the legal mechanics about how yourn Vanderslut can

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Speaker 1: ever be brought to justice for Natalie's murder. In this

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Speaker 1: case was a hallmark case in the sense of international law,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of held up foreign investigatory bodies to

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Speaker 1: a scrutiny and the standard maintained by the US. The FBI,

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Speaker 1: for example, Secret Service had gotten involved because they were

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Speaker 1: so frustrated with the relative slowness and laxity of the

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Speaker 1: local Uruban investigation. And I really believe in retrospect, Hindsite,

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Speaker 1: that all the stuff that happened the Peruvian angle, you know,

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Speaker 1: all these other issues really are sort of an offshoot

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Speaker 1: of the you know, really lack of ability in the

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Speaker 1: first forty eight as they would say, to really get

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Speaker 1: a handle on this case. It seemed to me that

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Speaker 1: this you know, like you said, there was issues about

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Speaker 1: the judge being his father, there was corruption issues, maybe

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Speaker 1: assistance by local police departments or investigatory bodies, and this

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Speaker 1: case really just ran away from the local investigations. And

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Speaker 1: now look at where we are. I mean, he's sitting

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Speaker 1: in Peru, you know, in a jail. Another other woman

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Speaker 1: has been you know, murdered because of this. So this

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Speaker 1: guy really needed to be dealt with in the first

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Speaker 1: forty eight especially the evidence. So remember back then we

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Speaker 1: had discussed this um. The other issue is, you know,

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Speaker 1: in terms of extradition to the US, if there's a

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Speaker 1: nexus to the United States, which there seems like there

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Speaker 1: is with this extortion money, which he you know, he

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Speaker 1: received the money and then now spending it, would that

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Speaker 1: would be enough for a personal and subject matter of

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Speaker 1: jurisdiction and in which case, I mean, if there's enough

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Speaker 1: energy behind it, they could issue a warrant. And I

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Speaker 1: think that that actually did take place. So there is

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Speaker 1: certainly enough of a jurisdictional nexus between the United States

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Speaker 1: and the individual as well the crime that took place,

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Speaker 1: because there is a sufficient nexus there, So we need

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Speaker 1: to be a stretch. What Royal de Manshonda is talking about,

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Speaker 1: renowned attorney and author of a book series Deep State Defector,

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Speaker 1: is for instance, let's just use Jackie Howard again, who's

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Speaker 1: here in the studio looking guilty about something. Let's just

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Speaker 1: pretend she robs a gas station in Pennsylvania and then

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Speaker 1: leaves the state she was just pretend end is a

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Speaker 1: citizen of California. Can Pennsylvania drag her back to be tried. Yes,

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Speaker 1: they can, because there's subject matter jurisdiction. They have a

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Speaker 1: right to prosecute crimes that happen in Pennsylvania. The subject

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Speaker 1: would be the armed robbery. Personal jurisdiction would be can

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Speaker 1: they make her comeback? Can they extradite her back? Yes,

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Speaker 1: because she has sufficient contacts in Pennsylvania and that she

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Speaker 1: went there and robbed a gas station. I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: that was you, Jackie Howard. So that's what Rollman China

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Speaker 1: is talking about, that the US could conceivably extradite You're

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Speaker 1: in Vanderslup. So in that line of reasoning, under a

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Speaker 1: very very famous case International Shoe, which went all the

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Speaker 1: way to the the US Supreme Court, there are sufficient contacts

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Speaker 1: for your in Vanderslout to come back to the US

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Speaker 1: and be tried in connection with Natalie's death. He to

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Speaker 1: US citizen, and it would have to be proven he

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Speaker 1: had enough contacts in the US to do it. Time

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace to Chingasaus, who has been in

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Speaker 1: the prison where Vanderslut was housed. How is it that

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Speaker 1: your Vanderslut has managed to have constical visits behind bars,

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Speaker 1: get a woman pregnant and now they're marrying. You know, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: when I was in Castro Castro, the prison environment, the

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Speaker 1: prison rules and regulations, they are so different. Their philosophy

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Speaker 1: is you keep the crime outside, you build a new

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Speaker 1: life literally right at this point inside. And so there

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Speaker 1: are conjugal visits they can have that families can bring

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Speaker 1: in homemade food. They wear their street clothes in the prison.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I happen to see some knives come out

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Speaker 1: of those street clothes they're walking around in there. But

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Speaker 1: it's just a totally different environment. So this is this

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Speaker 1: is not unexpect You are listening to HLM to Ann Emerson,

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Speaker 1: did we c iv ABC for Charleston Reporter and tell

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Speaker 1: me about your Vandersut's life behind bars in Peru. Oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, he has m been public in some ways.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's he said that he was

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Speaker 1: in a prison when he first got put into prison

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Speaker 1: for killing this woman, Stephanie Floras, this young twenty one

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Speaker 1: year old that he had confessed to killing. He said

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Speaker 1: that the prison official at the original prison had him

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Speaker 1: moved to even Um, a more maximum security prison higher

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Speaker 1: up in the Andes. Uh. He also said that he

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Speaker 1: had a cell phone from one of the prison officials.

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Speaker 1: So you we've seen pictures of him. Well, hold on,

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Speaker 1: an Emerson, it can't be that maximum security because he

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Speaker 1: got somebody pregnant. He was in jail. You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: And this woman, from what I understand, she was coming

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Speaker 1: into the prisons selling goods. Is the way it was

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Speaker 1: described and reported. This was a woman who had been

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Speaker 1: coming in and selling things to officials, I suppose guards,

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Speaker 1: the and and somehow she was able to get close

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Speaker 1: enough contact to have a relationship with the Anderslute. Well

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, Ann Emerson joining me WCIVABC for Charleston.

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Speaker 1: What was she selling to people behind bars? Because you

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Speaker 1: know it wasn't just a jail officials. There's probably to

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Speaker 1: anybody that could afford it. Well, what we what we've

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Speaker 1: been been reported so far is that it was just

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Speaker 1: uh thing. This was a woman who was, for all

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Speaker 1: intensive purposes allowed to be in that prison. And because

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Speaker 1: we know who she is and she hasn't been arrested

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Speaker 1: for being in that prison, so obviously it was under

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Speaker 1: the prisoners the guards request that she was there. But

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Speaker 1: what we do know is that she has now said

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Speaker 1: that she got pregnant and they got married in twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 1: They even from what I understand, Mary, the name of

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Speaker 1: the child is, she's named after You're in Vanderslute's grandmother.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we just heardman trying to state that your

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Speaker 1: Banderslute got an extortion money. What's he talking about, Ann

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Speaker 1: Emerson extortion money? Well, what happened was he had contacted

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Speaker 1: a lawyer, uh from Best Holloway Twitty. She was remarried

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Speaker 1: and Best Twitty would had contacted a lawyer on her

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Speaker 1: side and had said that he had information. Now this

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Speaker 1: is when he was in a Ruba and when he

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Speaker 1: wanted to uh, he wanted to give them the where

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Speaker 1: their daughter's remains were. He said he knew where her

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Speaker 1: remains were and for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: that information could be theirs. Uh so, but I don't

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Speaker 1: think at any point the mother was looking to get

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Speaker 1: some to get the truth out of him, because he

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Speaker 1: had been so untruthful all of these years. It was

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Speaker 1: just lie after lie. This is about actually trying to

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Speaker 1: catch your in Vanderslute, and get him and bring him

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Speaker 1: to justice. And this extortion plan was walks that just

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Speaker 1: going all the way with the FBI, trying to make

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Speaker 1: sure that they got him. Now we're talking about two

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars. She actually did a test

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Speaker 1: about the wire that he asked for to transform money,

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Speaker 1: and she spent out. She just sent one hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: to see if it actually worked, and it did, and

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Speaker 1: that sort of that was the catalyst to kind of

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Speaker 1: go into this whole wire fraud extortion scheme and esteem

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Speaker 1: with the FBI. They set it up. They got ten

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars to Vanderslute, They were transferring fifteen thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: and that was the deal, twenty five thousand dollars ahead

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Speaker 1: of time. Somehow Vanderslute gets the money and escapes Aruba

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Speaker 1: with best money. He's now on his way to another

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Speaker 1: our country and they don't have Vanderslute. And of course

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Speaker 1: now we know what he did with that money and

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Speaker 1: where he ended up. So your Vanderslute with twenty five

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars from Beth Holloway twenty Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalysts

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Speaker 1: joining me out of Beverly Hills. Doctor Bethany, I will

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Speaker 1: never forget that painful interview where Beth travels to Peru

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Speaker 1: confronts and you know, everybody trashes Beth because cameras were rolling.

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Speaker 1: And you know what else, Doctor Bethany Marshall, A lot

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Speaker 1: of people trash Natalie's dad because he cooperated with Oxygen

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Speaker 1: to do a series on trying to find Natalie's remains.

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Speaker 1: I think that's very, very hateful, and I'll tell you why.

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Speaker 1: If your child was missing, you never had answers and

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Speaker 1: a network or producers come to you and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we will foot the bill for you to fly to

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Speaker 1: Aruba or fly to Peru and confront your inventorsuit or

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Speaker 1: to the dad, help us look for her remains. We've

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Speaker 1: got tips that her bones are in this location. Will

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Speaker 1: you do it? And we will put the bill for

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Speaker 1: the investigation and flying you there, no matter how many

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Speaker 1: weeks it takes. What parent in their right mind wouldn't say, yes,

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Speaker 1: of course I'll do it because of search like that

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Speaker 1: for her remains. Bethany, I can tell you gotta cost

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Speaker 1: five hundred grand to take him down there and stay

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Speaker 1: for you know, months on end, or however long it

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Speaker 1: took to have a crew, a geologist, a boat captain, investigators.

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Speaker 1: All that costs money, money that regular people don't have.

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Speaker 1: Same thing for flying beth all the way to Peru,

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Speaker 1: getting her house at a hotel, getting her into the prison,

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Speaker 1: all that, and I really I would do anything to

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Speaker 1: get answers as my child was missing. I really hate

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Speaker 1: the way people attack them, Bethany. Well, only that, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Compound that with the fact that they probably had to

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Speaker 1: give up their jobs, They probably lost relationships within their

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Speaker 1: community because they couldn't keep in touch with friends. Their

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Speaker 1: whole life was organized around the search for their daughters.

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Speaker 1: So you're right. A network approaches them says we will

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Speaker 1: foot the bill for you to go and find your daughter,

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Speaker 1: And of course they are going to expand their resources

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Speaker 1: in whatever way they can. Now add to that Nancy

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Speaker 1: that she went to Peru and she faced John. I

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Speaker 1: remember the videotape. We covered it extensively on your show

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Speaker 1: on Hland and can you imagine losing Lucy or John

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Speaker 1: David and then you actually have to go stop, stop, stop, stop, Bethany.

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Speaker 1: Do you know as light as yesterday, I was doing

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Speaker 1: an interview and it was supposed to be about finding

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Speaker 1: missing children and solving on soft Thomas Eyson. Out of

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Speaker 1: the blue, the reporter got on the martyr of my fiancee.

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Speaker 1: And yes, I know it was a long time ago,

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Speaker 1: but when you're not ready, you're not thinking about it,

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Speaker 1: you're having a perfectly fine day, and somebody brings that up.

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Speaker 1: And he brought it up in kind of a mean

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Speaker 1: way too. He said, you always say your fiancee's murder

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Speaker 1: was random, but it's been reported that, in fact, the

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Speaker 1: killer worked at the same place as your fiance and

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Speaker 1: out of the blue, it's kind of an attack. And

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Speaker 1: there was more to it than that, by the way,

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Speaker 1: But I said, yeah, yeah, this is what happened. I

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Speaker 1: was told by the prosecutor that Keith got his job

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Speaker 1: on a construction crew one summer, and shortly before Keith started.

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Speaker 1: This guy that murdered him had been fired, so he

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Speaker 1: and Keith never crossed pass. That's what I was told

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Speaker 1: by the prosecutor. And then one day the guy shows

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Speaker 1: up at the out in the middle of nowhere on

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Speaker 1: a construction site and opens fire on the company truck

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Speaker 1: and Keith was driving. That's how he was killed. So

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Speaker 1: they did not know each other, and he just confront

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Speaker 1: him about many facts surrounding Keith's murder. I finally quit

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Speaker 1: the interviewed Bethany because it got me so upset. Now,

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Speaker 1: how long is that? That That was in nineteen seventy nine.

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Speaker 1: Now can you imagine beth confronting your vander Salute and

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Speaker 1: getting nothing by the way his usual lies, and the

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Speaker 1: dad going to Aruba with oxygen and going through all that,

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Speaker 1: finding the location where the bones allegedly we're finding bones,

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Speaker 1: finding remains and thinking oh maybe, maybe maybe, and then

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Speaker 1: the test and then it's negative. Those people have been

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Speaker 1: through hell. Bethany empty because of false hope. Again and again.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, this beautif full Alabama girl

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Speaker 1: leaves on her senior trip to Aruba and disappears. Natalie

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Speaker 1: and Holloway last scene driving away from a local nightclub

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Speaker 1: as she was just away on her high school senior trip.

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Speaker 1: She has disappeared. Three guys that escorted Natalie from a

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Speaker 1: restaurant bar, Carlos and Charlie's her last night. They're on

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Speaker 1: Aruba before she was supposed to leave the next morning.

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Speaker 1: These are the guys she was last seen with. His

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Speaker 1: statement that the boy van der Slute says I took

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Speaker 1: her down to the beach. It was around two am

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Speaker 1: and she wanted to stay there, so I left her

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Speaker 1: there alone. Stephen Lampley, Roola Menchanda said something really important.

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Speaker 1: He said a lot of important things, but he also

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Speaker 1: said the case was screwed up with Natalie in the

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Speaker 1: first forty eight Explain what Roola men Shanda, who's an

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Speaker 1: international law expert, was talking about forty eight that that

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Speaker 1: is the most important time frame for any investigation, and

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Speaker 1: it's just it's sort of like the Golden hour MTS.

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Speaker 1: It's just the time frame that we want to be

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Speaker 1: fully active. We want to put out all the resources

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Speaker 1: and we want to try to find everything we can

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Speaker 1: in the first forty eight hours because it's just the

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Speaker 1: matter of life. After forty eight hours, the propensity to

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Speaker 1: solve the crime, lessons with every hour thereafter, And to

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Speaker 1: Karen Smith, forensics expert, the founder of Beer Bones, consulting

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Speaker 1: Karen Smith to this day, we don't really know what

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Speaker 1: happened to Allie Holloway. Ultimately, you're in Vanderslute changed his story.

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Speaker 1: There was a wire put in an suv he was in,

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Speaker 1: and he's of course speaking in Dutch, the language at

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Speaker 1: Neville and Antilles, including Aruba, and he basically said she

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Speaker 1: started foaming at the mouth and shaking, and she died

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Speaker 1: on the beach. He said he rejected sex with her

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Speaker 1: and just left. That's base generally. I mean, he's told

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Speaker 1: so many different stories. I may be crossing the wires.

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Speaker 1: But will we ever really? No, we can't count on anything.

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Speaker 1: Vanderslout says, First of all, you think he would say

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Speaker 1: no to sex with Natalie Holloway. No, I firmly believe

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Speaker 1: he slipped something in her drink at Carlost and Charlie's.

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Speaker 1: She had never left before with unknown men ever in

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Speaker 1: her life. She's just a kid. And I think that

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Speaker 1: she was killed or died on the beach and that

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Speaker 1: he raped her. Listen, that's a completely plausible explanation and yourn.

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Speaker 1: Vanderslout has given story after story and false lead after

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Speaker 1: false lead. He was toying with police and he continues

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Speaker 1: too to this day. You know, Natalie Holloway, I don't

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Speaker 1: know that her remains will ever be found. At this point,

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Speaker 1: it's been almost fifteen years. Aruba is a very small

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Speaker 1: island off the coast of Venezuela. It's only twenty miles

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Speaker 1: long by six miles wide in United States peak, that

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Speaker 1: is a relatively small area for a search. You have it, obviously,

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Speaker 1: it's an island. It's surrounded by beaches, surrounded by water,

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Speaker 1: so there is a lot of ground to cover. But

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Speaker 1: like Stephen Lampley and Raoul said, the first forty eight

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Speaker 1: were critical. I'm not going to say any ball was dropped.

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Speaker 1: I know that they used a lot of resources to

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Speaker 1: try and find her. But what really frustrates me is

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Speaker 1: the fact that you have this American student who goes missing.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say eight to twelve hours passes before

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Speaker 1: they realize that she's missing, and then all of the

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Speaker 1: resources that were put toward her search. I don't know

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Speaker 1: that they went to the areas that were accessible by car,

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Speaker 1: where they accessible on foot. We don't know if you

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Speaker 1: were in. Vandersloot was telling the truth that he was

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Speaker 1: with these two other men and they drove somewhere or

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Speaker 1: did they walk somewhere, So that whole pattern of a

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Speaker 1: search area, I don't know how that was worked from

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Speaker 1: the beginning. Well, we know they left. Let's go to

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Speaker 1: Ann Emerson w CIV ABC for Charleston and again thanks

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Speaker 1: for being with us. And they left carloson Charlie's and

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Speaker 1: a small car and Jorn Vanderslut was with Natalie Holloway

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Speaker 1: and two other guys, the Calpo brothers, and that's the

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Speaker 1: last she was seeing alive and Emerson. What have been

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Speaker 1: Jorn Vanderslout's changing stories over time? You know, he has

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Speaker 1: been moving these stories according to what seems to suit him.

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Speaker 1: He has claimed that that she well, let's let's start

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Speaker 1: where where he where? He said he started at the

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Speaker 1: very beginning, Nancy, and it's the first time we hear

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Speaker 1: from him. He told investigators that he dropped her off

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Speaker 1: at the hotel and that she had stumbled back when

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Speaker 1: she was getting out of the car, and that two

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Speaker 1: men that were dressed in what he thought were security

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Speaker 1: guards uniforms helped her up, but he had just left her.

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Speaker 1: He saw her sort of stumble out of the car

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Speaker 1: and he drove off with his two buddies who were brothers.

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Speaker 1: Oh and I remember, don't you remember? I remember this though,

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Speaker 1: I like it was yesterday. Ro Manshonda that the security

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Speaker 1: guards first came under suspicion, just like Ann Emerson is saying,

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Speaker 1: because Jorn Vanderslout said they helped her, she was last

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Speaker 1: spotted with them. They came under suspicion. Remember that there

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Speaker 1: could have been innocent people going to jail. And everybody's

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Speaker 1: saying the authorities helped. The authorities did not help. They

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Speaker 1: didn't do a darned thing in a Ruba's right. That's right,

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Speaker 1: And that's goes to what we talked about earlier that

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Speaker 1: just too much time was given, too many stories were vetted,

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Speaker 1: too many It was just trial and error, and you

408
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Speaker 1: got that judge kind of ring leading the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: you know, and these investigators, who do you think they're

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Speaker 1: beholden to? You think they're beholden to the foreign media,

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Speaker 1: foreign long person. Now they're they're beholding to the power

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Speaker 1: struck of that particular island, which is extremely small and

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Speaker 1: close knit, and so everyone's got a finger in their pockets,

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Speaker 1: and everyone's got you know, everyone's talking for each other,

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Speaker 1: and the stories are getting vetted and revetted and change

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Speaker 1: it over again, and absolutely a disastrous investigation. And that

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Speaker 1: was what we were talking about when it first happened,

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Speaker 1: you know, and this is Look, look what's happened today.

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Speaker 1: We've got a fruit of the Poison Street in a

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Speaker 1: sense of a terrible investigation, just out of control, just crazy.

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Speaker 1: What happened? What went wrong with that investigation? Steve Lampley?

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Speaker 1: Where did it go wrong? I mean, of course it

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Speaker 1: started off wrong. Well, that's right, it did start off wrong,

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Speaker 1: and that pretty much set the stage for the rest

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Speaker 1: of the investigation. We go back to the first forty

426
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: eight Once you saw forty eight hours, you know, you

427
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 1: take what you get about at Karen Smith. If you

428
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 1: started Carlos and Charlie's where she was last seen. You

429
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: talk to the people that were there that night. Did

430
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: you see her leave? Did you see who she was with? Yes,

431
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: she was with three men. She got into a car.

432
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: Where did that car go? We're dealing with two thousand

433
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: and five. There weren't cameras around like they're are now,

434
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: can't we can't go anywhere without being on camera. In

435
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, it wasn't like that, So you

436
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: would have to just take the investigation from Carlos and

437
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: Charlie's and branch out from there. You know, how long

438
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: was Yourn Vanderslout gone? How long were these other two

439
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: men gone? You can get a radius to start a

440
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: search all of those things. It seems like that ball

441
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: was just dropped from the get go Prime stories with

442
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace when you use this stunning to hear that

443
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: your on Vanderslout may have killed another young woman five

444
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: years to the day after the disappearance of Natalie Holloway.

445
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: Stephanie Flores was the only daughter in a family of

446
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: voice and she was truly her father's pride and joy.

447
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: Riccardo Flores is a well known figure in Peru. He's

448
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: a I'm a race car driver. He had been a politician.

449
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: Stephanie and her father had a very tight bond. She

450
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 1: wanted to be a businesswoman and an entrepreneur like her father,

451
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 1: and he fostered that they were cut from the same cloth,

452
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: and everybody in the family knew that. On June second,

453
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: twenty ten, Stephanie Flores has been missing for three days.

454
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: Her distraught family has been searching everywhere, and then sadly,

455
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: she is found dead by an employee in the hotel tap.

456
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: You are listening to our friends at ABC five years

457
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: to the day after Natalie Holloway disappears, Van der Sleet

458
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: Bludge and Stephanie Tassiana Flores to death an Alima hotel room.

459
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: To Anne Emerson w CIV, ABC four Charleston, as I

460
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: recall it, Stephanie met him. Beautiful brunette girl dad a

461
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: business person very well respected in the area, meets him

462
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: at a casino and they hit it off. They go

463
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: back to his hotel room for a few drinks. He

464
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 1: catches her online looking him up, and we believe she

465
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: questioned him, questioned about Natalie Holloway, and he bludgets her dead.

466
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: That's basically what happened, probably raped her two, but that's

467
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: what happened. As I recall to Stephanie Taciana Flora's Ann Emerson,

468
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: what do you know? You know? And it's interesting because

469
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: there's also a theory that once again he was trying

470
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: to flect the responsibility of this murder somewhere else. It's

471
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: considered the coffee. The coffee story is that he goes off.

472
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: Talked about this earlier. He had gone off to get

473
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: a cup of coffee, and he comes back with the coffee,

474
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: but he says that he got locked out of his

475
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: room and he asked for somebody. Reportedly, he asked for

476
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,719
Speaker 1: somebody at the front dusk to walk him back up

477
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: to the hotel room and led him in with the

478
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: idea that maybe suspicion could go in a different direction,

479
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: right because something's already happened to Stephanie Laras in that

480
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: room and he knows it. But he but supposedly that

481
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: door doesn't open all the way and he doesn't get

482
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: his wish, so he just decides to move on and

483
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: then ends up. We do get a confession from him.

484
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: He says he does say that he killed her, but

485
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: he tries to take that back. He also tried to

486
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: take back that confession from what we understand from the judge,

487
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: but the judge said it was valid and he was

488
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: gonna he was gonna stick to it. We are talking

489
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: about the disappearance of Natalie Holloway, who I firmly believe

490
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: has long been dead. There are many other investigations as

491
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: to whether she was sold into sex trafficking, whether she

492
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: was being held hostage. I don't think any of that

493
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: is true. Rule de Manchanda joining me, international law expert,

494
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: author of a book series Deep State Defense. What is

495
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: life like for him and that Peruvian prison. Well, you know,

496
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's not gonna be great. But at the

497
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: same time, you know, it is a South American situation,

498
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: probably you know, in the outskirts of the country where

499
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: there's a lot of corruption. Rights of corruption is there

500
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: as opposed to an American federal or statement, which of

501
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: course obviously has its own But I'm sure out there,

502
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: because his father was a judge, I'm sure his reach

503
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: goes pretty far in terms of administration. So I would

504
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: venture a guest and saying it's probably not as bad

505
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: as we all think it might be in terms of,

506
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: you know, the accouterments and what he might be getting

507
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: out there. I would assume that, you know, the father,

508
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: being who he was, to have him shielded for so long,

509
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: I wouldn't doubt it's a phone call to his men. However,

510
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: there was the stories that the father of the girl

511
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: that was murdered was very very angry. There was rumor mongering.

512
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: Of course, he's going on that the ten thousand dollars

513
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: reward was placed to have your inventage of murdered in prison. Now,

514
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: whether or not that's true or not, the father has

515
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: denied that. Uh you know, well, we do know that

516
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: he's still alive and whining about life behind bars. But

517
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: he was laughing and grinning the last time that a

518
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: hidden camera interview went down. That was around two thousand

519
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: and sixteen. The whining goes on. He has two roommates,

520
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: but apparently he has a special area in his cell

521
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: and he has more room than anyone else. He has books,

522
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: he's married, He gets conjugal visits, he gets drugs and

523
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: alcohol behind bars. I don't know how he does that.

524
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: What do you know, Ann Emerson about his life behind bars?

525
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: What we're hearing is that he does have a very

526
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: lax situation at prison that you know, he's able to

527
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: get through. He's able to get food from home, he's

528
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: able to get clothes, he gets special favors. Like you said,

529
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: he gets conjugal visits. Um he can. He gets straight

530
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: clothes from what we understand, which means that he doesn't

531
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,239
Speaker 1: have to wear the same prison uniform. So just by

532
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: just those those things are making him stand out as

533
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: sort of perhaps like a celebrity prisoner. UM in a

534
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: very different way as well. Um he is. He's also

535
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 1: on these international charges. I mean, we understand that he

536
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: is still facing um extradition after he serves his twenty

537
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: eight years sentence. UM he still has. But this gives

538
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: him a I would think, a level of celebrity status

539
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: within the prison um of who he is and what

540
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: he's done. He's just he's not just like every other prisoner.

541
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,719
Speaker 1: But and he is treated specially and he gets he

542
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: gets what he gets some special Um, it looks like

543
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: he's getting special treatment on some levels. UM, I hear you.

544
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: And I don't know how special any of us would

545
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: consider it, though, to be up at the Alcatraz of

546
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: the Andes, it's up in the Andes Mountains, it's it's cold,

547
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: and there may be in truth or what rool Manchanda

548
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: said that there's a hint on him placed by Stephanie Tauciano,

549
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: Flora's father because he apparently has been stabbed five times

550
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 1: behind bars and talk about lacks security. Doctor Bethany Marshall.

551
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: What I wonder about very often is how the parents,

552
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 1: how Beth and mister Holloway go on? How do they

553
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: do it? Bethany? Well, what I'm struck by is excuse me.

554
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: What I'm struck by is that they are still observing

555
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: Jordan Vanderslute's offending pattern. Think about it. He was sort

556
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: of the big man on campus in this very small island, right,

557
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: and he probably refined his offending pattern very early. All

558
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: these girls would come over on spring break. He would

559
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: apply them with alcohol, date rape drugs, rape them, and

560
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: he had probably been doing this for a number of years,

561
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: even though he was just a teenager. Natalie was just

562
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: the first one who died. There were victims who came before. Then,

563
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: a year after Natalie's death, he bludgeons Stephanie Floris to death.

564
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: Where did he meet her? In a casino? What did

565
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: he do? Probably applied her with drinks, brought her back

566
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: to the room. So the offending pattern continues. Now, The

567
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: ascending pattern continues behind bars. He targets the woman who

568
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: comes in to sell goods to the other inmates, and

569
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: he's procuring goods for her from her, has conjugal bit

570
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: visits has sex as able to take her back to

571
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 1: the whole as they call it, or wherever his room is.

572
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: So as a parent, I mean to speak to your question,

573
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: there would be so many conflicting feelings, you know, grief, loss, rage,

574
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: having to witness this travesty again and again. But what

575
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: did they think about this young woman behind bars who's pregnant.

576
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: I mean, did you see her picture. She's very young,

577
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: she's about twenty four years old. She's an accounting assistant,

578
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: so obviously she has some sort of an education. What

579
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: if he bludgeons her to death? What if she's connects victims?

580
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: So I think what's probably difficult for them is that

581
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: the saga continues. It's never ever over. On an interesting thing,

582
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: now that he has had a baby with a Peruvian citizen,

583
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: he can fight extradition. They don't have to just hand

584
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: him over because he can be a Peruvian citizen before

585
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: he got Before he gets that citizenship, that formal citizenship,

586
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: they'll get rid of him, kick him out, happy to

587
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: get rid of him. But once he becomes a citizen,

588
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: it will be a lot harder for him to get

589
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: extradited to the US. We wait as justice unfalls. Nancy

590
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: Grace crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,