1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. 2 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: Clara Phillips was in the wind after a jail break 3 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: that made international news. She was gone for months with 4 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: the help of her parents, an Armor and Armour's family, 5 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: and a curious admirer. Newspaper reporters continued to dig for 6 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: information about her escape, and federal investigators searched the world 7 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: for Clara while she laid low with her sister and 8 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: someone else. They weren't hiding alone, remember, Clara needed a 9 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: host of people to help her escape, and according to 10 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: author Claudine Burnett, it turns out that Los Angeles journalists 11 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: were just as diligent as the police, maybe even more. 12 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: A journalist was the one who discovered that Clara was 13 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: traveling with her sister and a mister man. 14 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: It was a reporter from The Examiner who finally decided 15 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 2: to trace the money, and he found that Armor had 16 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 2: wired money to his sister in Galveston, who then wired 17 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 2: the money to a Phillip by the name of Jesse 18 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: Carson in Honduras who was passing it on to Clara 19 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 2: and Clara's sister who was there with. 20 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,559 Speaker 1: Her, and now Jesse Carson was in Honduras with the women. 21 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: His relationship with Clara Phillips was complicated. Daniel Phillips says, 22 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: Jesse was an odd character, even more odd than most 23 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: of the people in this story. 24 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 3: He's a guy that came and was one of the 25 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 3: spectators at the trial, and he got all enthralled with 26 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 3: I think the legend. He was completely en rapture of her, 27 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 3: and even was left a wife and two or three 28 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 3: children to basically kind of be her rescuer. 29 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 2: He was at the trial every single day and he 30 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 2: looked at Claire with romance in his eyes. He just 31 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: thought she was the most beautiful, fascinating woman he had 32 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: ever seen. He wrote her notes saying that he was 33 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: going to be the one that was going to get 34 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: her out of prison. 35 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: So Jesse Carson was one of numerous cogs in the 36 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: machine that was built to facilitate Clara's escape and then 37 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: her life of hiding. It was extraordinary. So many people 38 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: risked jail time, even their lives for her. And now 39 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: Jesse Carson was a main player in this tale. 40 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 3: He kind of fancied himself as a soldier of fortune, 41 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 3: and so when they found her guilty, he was said 42 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 3: to have communicated her as she was leaving in the courthouse, 43 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 3: I can help you get out. 44 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: And so the press picked this up for many issues 45 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 2: of the newspaper. They thought that maybe Jesse Carson had 46 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 2: actually done it, though there were reports that Clara was 47 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: seen in a car with a man that looked more 48 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 2: like armor when she fled. 49 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: But what did Jesse Carson get out of this whole arrangement? 50 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: What did he benefit from taking all of these risks? 51 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: Clara was married, not happily, but she was married. Daniel 52 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: Phillips thinks that his great aunt made a lot of 53 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: promises that she never intended to keep. 54 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 3: I don't have to sell my virtue. I can just 55 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 3: give the idea that I might, and in those days 56 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 3: that was enough. In some cases. She even said, supposedly 57 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 3: to Jesse Carson that she actually had some oil property 58 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 3: that she would share with him if he would help 59 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 3: her stay out of the clutches of the folks that 60 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 3: try and put her in prison. 61 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: So Jesse, ola May, and Clara all stayed quiet in 62 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: Honduras for months. 63 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 3: She kept a low profile. Jesse Carson got her to 64 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 3: dyre hair black. 65 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: But then someone knew became involved. Someone more inventive than 66 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: a lot of the investigators who were searching for Clara. 67 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: It was an American reporter from the Los Angeles Examiner, 68 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: Morris Levine. Levine had covered the case extensively during the trial, 69 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: and when Clara escaped, he was determined to try her down. 70 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: So Lavine traced Armor's money from Armor's bank to his 71 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: sister Sadie and Galveston, and then to Clara and Ola 72 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: May and South America. After almost five months, Levine found them. 73 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: No one else had been able to do that. 74 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 3: So Morris went in there and he said to her 75 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 3: that if you're not guilty, here's an opportunity to go 76 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 3: back and prove your innocence. And that way you're not 77 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 3: going to have to go to jail, particularly, you know, 78 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 3: if you're wanting to get a new trial. He said, 79 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 3: it's going to be to your benefit. 80 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: Morris Levine was a very successful journalist for the Hearst newspaper, 81 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: a front page reporter, and while Levine was happy to 82 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: be helpful to investigators, the twenty seven year old wasn't 83 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: just being altruistic. 84 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 3: He also was trying to see if he could be 85 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 3: the one that had an exclusive with her. Both on 86 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 3: what she had gone through as well as when she 87 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: did go back. 88 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: So Clara really thought about Levine's suggestion. She considered whether 89 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: she could really stay in hiding for the rest of 90 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: her life in Honduras. Yes, she had learned Spanish, but 91 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: it might not be an easy life, and she just 92 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: couldn't count on Armor to send her money forever. She 93 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: would have appreciated some legal advice, but her defense attorney 94 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: had died shortly after her murder trial. Clara tried to 95 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: sort out her endgame, and she still thought that she 96 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: could get out of this. Even in Los Angeles. Clara 97 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: told Levine, Okay, I'll turn myself into the local police. 98 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 3: So when she agreed to do that was about the 99 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 3: same time that the under sheriff of La County Sheriff 100 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 3: Biscolas and his wife, who was actually a matron, and 101 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 3: another La Sheriff's deputy, traveled down to Honduras. 102 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: Morris Levine traveled with him as part of his deal 103 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: for revealing her location in Honduras. When they met Clara 104 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: and Ola May in the local jail, they were alone. 105 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: Honduran police had already arrested Jesse Carson on Arson charges. 106 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: He previously had in America, so he was gone. 107 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 3: Jesse was out of the pictures, so they were just 108 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 3: dealing with the two women, so they came in. They 109 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 3: at first played cat and mouse with them a little bit. 110 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: Of course, Clara and ola May played back. They refused 111 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: to admit who they really were, and then the sheriff 112 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: decided to be a little more direct. 113 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 3: Late finally said, look, we know who you are, and 114 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 3: we're going to take you back to serve your sentence 115 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 3: or go through your new trial. So Morris Levine had 116 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 3: already done a good job of convincing the girls to 117 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 3: go ahead and come back. 118 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: Clara agreed to waive extradition. She signed all the paperwork. 119 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: She and Ola May would leave with the sheriff the 120 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: next day. But Clara already had a different plan in place. 121 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: A few days earlier, she had recruited about fifteen local 122 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: teenagers in Honduras for a special mission another jail break. 123 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 3: She was looking for someone to take Jesse Carson's place 124 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 3: and be able to kind of spirit her onto where 125 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 3: she was going to go to finally lose these suckers 126 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 3: from chasing her. 127 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: And the teenagers seemed happy to help. In the middle 128 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: of the night. They carried a huge ladder to the 129 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: side of the jail and propped it up against the wall. 130 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: Clara and Ola May planned to climb down through an 131 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: open window and disappear into the night. Yet again it 132 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: seemed ridiculous. What was her long term goal? Was she 133 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: going to move to another country? Clearly yes, she believed 134 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: that Armor would always stand by her, He would never 135 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: stop protecting her. Clara was certainly wrong about that. As 136 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: Clara and Ola May prepared to leave the jail, someone 137 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: tipped off the local police officers rushed over and removed 138 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: the ladder. Clara was caught, and this time she wouldn't 139 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: be able to talk her way out of handcuffs. 140 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 3: They drove from Honduras to the coast, which I think 141 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 3: was in Guatemala, and then caught up ship the kop 142 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 3: into New Orleans. 143 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: She was back in America, now no longer a fugitive 144 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: on the run, but she had convinced so many people 145 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: along the way that she was innocent. She planned to 146 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: just keep doing that as she geared up for her 147 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: second trial in Los Angeles. 148 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 2: And it was one of these stories that she would 149 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 2: also tell everybody else, And they started to believe her, 150 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 2: and she started embellishing this story about how Pegy had 151 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 2: done it. She actually believed that Peggy had done it. 152 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: So Clara seemed delusional. And I think that story makes 153 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: sense if Clara had ever shown a tiny bit of 154 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: remorse or guilt or regret. But she felt none of that. 155 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: Even so, she still might wiggle out of prison time 156 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: because remember, the prosecutor in Los Angeles had promised her 157 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 1: a new trial if she waived extradition. All she needed 158 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: to do was convince one juror one male jur that 159 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: she was innocent, and she'd be back with her husband, 160 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: back to her old life. Clara Phillips was ready to 161 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: take control once again, and Daniel Phillips says it all 162 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: started with that train ride. 163 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 3: They had reporters and stuff that were on the train, 164 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 3: and the San Diego Union made her a deal that 165 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 3: she could write her life story in installments from the 166 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 3: time that she was born until the time that she 167 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 3: was delivered to authorities in LA. 168 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: The series was titled Clara Phillips Narrates Own Story of 169 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: Tempestuous Life. Her promise of an exclusive story to Morris 170 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: Levine had expired. This newspaper series with the Union was 171 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: the vehicle that Clara needed to reach her fans, all 172 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: of the advocates who would rally around her at the courthouse. 173 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: They would demand her freedom. 174 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 3: She never stopped scheming. She had contingency plans in the background, 175 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 3: just in case. She was always looking for the angle, 176 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 3: and that I think made her not lose faith in herself, 177 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 3: made her feel There's always going to be a way 178 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 3: for me to get out of this mess. 179 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: Clara Philips shared her story with the reporter, and she 180 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: glowed as she talked about how she and Armor met 181 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: when they were young. And as she arrived at a 182 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: port in New Orleans, Louisiana, she grinned. There was a 183 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: massive crowd waiting there, and then there was another one 184 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: at the train station where she headed next. Clara smiled 185 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 1: and waved at everyone. She was grateful for the support 186 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,199 Speaker 1: as she stepped onto the train and it pulled away. 187 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 2: And then when she went into Texas, there was Armor's 188 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 2: family to greet her and give her their support. 189 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: That seems unbelievable, why would they embrace her after everything 190 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: she had done, But Armer's family seemed devoted to Clara 191 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: no matter what she had. 192 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 3: My aunt Sadie convinced they showed up at the train 193 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 3: station in Houston and just showing nothing but support. Her 194 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 3: brother Henry, who was again at laborer, was they're in 195 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 3: his work clothes, you know, showing support. 196 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: Daniel Phillips says, he just doesn't understand it. 197 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 3: It was almost like they forgot that she kills somebody, 198 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 3: you know. 199 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: So that's what's confusing. Did they dismiss that or did 200 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: they not believe it, or what allowed the departmentalize it 201 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: to just sort of focus on this is our relative. 202 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 3: All the above. I think all the above was in play, 203 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 3: but ultimately of his family loyalty. That's where he saw 204 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 3: the Weavers and the Phillips family join ranks and they 205 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 3: were saying family right or wrong. She's blood or she's 206 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 3: married blood, so you know that makes her part of 207 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 3: the family. She needs to be treated right, and if 208 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 3: she's going back for a new trial, she deserves to 209 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 3: be treated right and let her go through the new trial. 210 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 3: For Clara, it was a continuation of the con and 211 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 3: the con was continuously developing. 212 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: The trip from Houston to Los Angeles was about fifteen 213 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: hundred miles, just long enough for Clara to finish her 214 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: life story. As she did, the reporter put down his 215 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: pad and studied her. It was clear that she thought 216 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: she would be able to get away with murder again. 217 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: Her charm would convince the jury of her innocence again. 218 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: Boy was she wrong. The most infamous cases of the 219 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: nineteen twenties were depicted in popular radio shows like Calling 220 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: All Cars. This episode aired in nineteen thirty four. The 221 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: following decade, it's all about Clara Phillips. She would have 222 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: loved that. And it's called hammers in Honduras. 223 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 4: You're not being careful. 224 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 3: You'll find a dirty little homewrecker. Clara. 225 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 5: What are your moon? Get that? 226 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 6: Very yeah? What are your move I don't understand, and 227 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 6: I'll tell you. 228 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 7: Han me my husband, That's what I mean. 229 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 2: You gotta let him alone again? 230 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 6: Get that? 231 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 7: Who must be crazy, Clara. There's nothing between armor and me. 232 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 8: Different list me. 233 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: But Clara Phillips was already infamous by the time her 234 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: train pulled into the Los Angeles station on April twenty third, 235 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty three. She gathered her things and prepared to leave, 236 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: but then the sheriff stopped her. No, she wasn't going anywhere. 237 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 2: Asa Keys who was the Los Angeles District attorney at 238 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 2: the time, was there to present her with a warrant 239 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 2: for her arrest and to take her off to San 240 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 2: Quentin in prison. 241 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 3: You're going to San Quentin. You got a forty one 242 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 3: minute lay over here in LA but you're going to Sanquin. 243 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 2: What happened was that her attorney needed to file an 244 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 2: appeal within five days, and he waited nine days. Because 245 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: her attorney had delayed filing the appeal, no further appeal 246 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 2: could be made. The case was not going to be reopened. 247 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 2: She was going directly to jail. 248 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: Clara was speechless and caught. She had trusted Morris Levine 249 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: the report. She trusted the sheriff, She trusted just about 250 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: everyone to stay above the board with this deal. The 251 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: district attorney told her to blame her attorney, who was 252 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: dead after a heart attack. 253 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 3: They made it sound like it was a technicality. They 254 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 3: used every little technicality to think of, no new trial. 255 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 3: You're going to San Quentin. 256 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: So after a forty minute pit stop at the station, 257 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: the train traveled four hundred miles north of Los Angeles 258 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: to San Quentin State Prison. Clara was told she would 259 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: spend twelve years behind bars, now ten years for her 260 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: original sentence in an additional two years for her escape. 261 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: Clara seems stoic. San Quentin was certainly different from jail, 262 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: much harder time, and any hopes of escape were over. 263 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: When Clara saw the guards and the gates, Clara hoped 264 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: to see Armor again. She was miserable. She believed she 265 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: had done all of this for him. She hoped for visits. 266 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: She wanted promises that he would be there for her 267 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: over the next twelve years and then they would be 268 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: together when she got out. But the only thing Armor 269 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: would offer her was silence. 270 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 3: He was devoted to her until she finally got in 271 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 3: San Quentin, and then that's when everything changed. 272 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: That might seem cruel, but remember that Armor was really 273 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: focused on self preservation. He was married to the Tiger Woman, 274 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: so the press was very focused on him, but they 275 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: didn't seem to be focused on his cons He might 276 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: have loved his wife, but he certainly loved himself more. 277 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: He refused to visit Clara, and he refused to talk 278 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: about it. 279 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 3: Armor didn't like to dwell on the past, and Clara 280 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 3: was the past. 281 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: And so was Alberta Meadows. The press was so focused, 282 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: even obsessed with the legend of Clara Phillips, that the 283 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: public's memory of Alberta fanished. 284 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 3: The fact that Alberta was now dead completely got l 285 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 3: Lowe in the hoopla. 286 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: That's so typical of the victim, you know, the killer 287 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: becomes the star and the victim becomes an afterthought. 288 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, and in her case, Alberta kind of faded out 289 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 3: of the picture. 290 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: You would think that Clara's constant conning would stop in prison, 291 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: that her story would end here. 292 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 3: Not yet. 293 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: When she was first booked into San Quentin, she promised 294 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: to be a model citizen, but the Tiger Woman would 295 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: still resurface in the media in the oddest ways. Three 296 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: years after she was incarcerated, Clara received word that her 297 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: elderly mother was dying. Clara begged the warden to let 298 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: her see her mother before she was gone. It was 299 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: the woman's deathbed wish. She moaned and cried for days, 300 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: and the warden really reluctantly agreed with some conditions. 301 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,959 Speaker 3: That was her best opportunity to try to get away, 302 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 3: but they just put the clams down on her. They 303 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 3: were not going to let her out of their sight. 304 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 3: She is heavily guarded all the way down to San Diego. 305 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 3: There is no way that she was going to get loose. 306 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: Clara cried with her mother as she cradled her, and 307 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: eventually Clara was returned to San Quentin and her mother 308 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 1: was presumably going to die soon. But Daniel Phillips says 309 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: her mother's deathbed wish was all a ruse for another escape. 310 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: It was just another trick from the Weaver family. After all, 311 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: that was in nineteen twenty six. 312 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 3: She didn't die until nineteen thirty nine, so I think 313 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 3: she was used more by her children to try to 314 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 3: get Clara out of prison and using that as kind 315 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 3: of a scam. 316 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: About a year later, Clara was resigned to her fate. 317 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: She still had eight more years on her sentence. She 318 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: was morose and depressed. She became desperate and she cut 319 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: her wrists in her prison set. Guards rushed her to 320 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: the infirmary, but they were superficial wounds and likely yet 321 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: another trick. 322 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 3: She needed some attention and she got it. But the 323 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 3: stuff that she did from there, as far as the 324 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 3: harm she did, it wasn't enough to kill her. It 325 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 3: was enough to get attention. 326 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: And there was even more trouble ahead because Armor Phillips 327 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: had ultimately lost interest in his wife. 328 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 3: One thing that most people don't understand is once she 329 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 3: hit San Quentin, Armor never came to visit. 330 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: Never Armor had left her, and Clara was devastated. In 331 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: the meantime, Armor had his own troubles. Police arrested him 332 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty one for beating a man over the 333 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: head with the butt of a pistol, but he was 334 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: soon out. But Clara didn't know about any of that. 335 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: She felt abandoned until she found new love interests in prison. 336 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 3: That I think is what happens when you're an attractive 337 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 3: female that has no outlet for your emotions, and she 338 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 3: found someone that maybe she could have at least to 339 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 3: come a jail house romance. 340 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: Clara flirted with a male prisoner named Thomas J. Price, 341 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: maybe more than flirted, and that got them both into trouble. 342 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 9: She got in a little trouble when she was still 343 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 9: in Quinton for writing of sort of like lurid love note. 344 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: Daniel Phillips says Clara seemed focused on getting out, but 345 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: she kept ruining her chances. 346 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 3: I'm going to keep fighting to get out. Before my 347 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,479 Speaker 3: sentence so that I can have a life. That's what 348 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 3: she did with the romantic relationship with that young burglar 349 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 3: there in San Quentin. When she got caught past love 350 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 3: notes to her, that's something that he got punished for 351 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 3: and she got punished for. But it also had repercussions. 352 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: More on those repercussions. Soon in nineteen thirty two, Clara 353 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: was transferred to the Tahatchepee Prison in southern California, just 354 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: west of Santa Barbara, where the warden was determined to 355 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: offer the female prisoners safety and skills and education. The 356 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: facility became a model for reform, and Clara Phillips took 357 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,719 Speaker 1: advantage of all of those things. 358 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 9: But she acted in a couple of plays. I think 359 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 9: she played in one of the bands. What happens is 360 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 9: luckily for her. A women's prison is built in to 361 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 9: Hatchebie opens in the thirties and all the other female 362 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 9: prisoners from Santa Quentin are moved at to Hatchabee. To 363 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 9: hatchbe is a model for modern reform. 364 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 2: So she didn't have much of an education, but she 365 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 2: decided that yeah, she needed to go ahead and improve herself, 366 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 2: and that was when she learned to become a denial assistant, 367 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 2: and that gave her a career, something that she could 368 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 2: fall back on. 369 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 3: She made the best of the situation. It didn't mean 370 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 3: she accepted it, She just made the best of it. 371 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 5: Is this redemption no. 372 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: Clara was up for parole in nineteen thirty three, ten 373 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: years after she returned to the United States. She expected 374 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: to be released for a good behavior. She never gave 375 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: people problems in prison, but her affair with that other 376 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: inmate was a sticking point with the parole board, another 377 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: example of Clara's self sabotage. The board looked at her 378 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: history in prison and decided she was not leaving early. 379 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 3: In her case, some of the stuff she did was 380 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 3: self destructive that caused her to potentially have been in 381 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 3: prison longer than she needed to. Again, she was there 382 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 3: twelve years. It was a ten to life. She wanted 383 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 3: to get out in less than ten. You know, the quicker, 384 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 3: the better. 385 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: Two more years passed, and then in nineteen thirty five 386 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: she had finally served her full sentence. Clara Phillips left 387 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: prison and she hoped to be reunited with Armor again. Finally, 388 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,959 Speaker 1: now that she was free, they could be together. 389 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 3: She was expecting to see Armor because Armor had not 390 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 3: really been in communication with her while she was in prison, 391 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 3: and when she got out to Hatchepee in nineteen thirty five, 392 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 3: never came to visit. Of course, the cops were looking 393 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 3: at him for a grand theft charge, so they actually 394 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 3: were at Ta hatch Apee waiting for him to show 395 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 3: up so they could arrest him. 396 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 9: The reporters were there in force because they wondered if 397 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 9: Armor would show up. The police wanted him again on 398 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 9: some other warrant, and he never turned up, so she 399 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 9: was released quietly. 400 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 3: It was always armer. Lee Phillips, husband of Tiger Woman 401 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 3: Clara Phillips. You know, everything got him into the papers 402 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 3: was not good for him for his business. Same thing 403 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 3: had to do with his traffic violations. They were getting 404 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 3: him for a one mile over the speed limit. The 405 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 3: police were out. Yeah, yeah, so this was not fun 406 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 3: for him. And if he got picked up on a 407 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 3: dui or something like that, he had. That happened to 408 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 3: him both in La and San Francisco, and he ended 409 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 3: up getting out, but he was using that time to 410 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 3: learn more about improving his criminal skills. 411 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: Armor had abandoned her and Clara was devastated. She left 412 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: the prison alone and headed to Mesa, a suburb of 413 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 1: San Diego. 414 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 3: She stayed close to her mother. She couldn't leave this day, 415 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 3: and she always had to check in with her prole officer, 416 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 3: and she was diligent about that. She had basically reached 417 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 3: the point finally when she finally got down to thear 418 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 3: mother and be around her sisters that you know already 419 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 3: coming back. I think he had made a phone call 420 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 3: or talked to her over the phone, like a year 421 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 3: before she decides she was going to get a divorce. 422 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: All of this ruin over one man. But Glenn Martin 423 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 1: says that in his experience, psychopaths will obsess over their 424 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: own self interests, which are constantly changing. Armor just happened 425 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: to be in Claire's focus at that time of her life. 426 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 5: I'm not as convinced that it was a killing over 427 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 5: a specific man, and it's been seen so many times 428 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 5: through so many years. As it's eliminated the competition, it's 429 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 5: capitulating to the jealousy, and it could have been any 430 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 5: man in that chair. She just wasn't equipped to compete 431 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 5: with another woman for the affections of a man. 432 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: Clearly that's true, but it was much deeper than that. 433 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: Doctor Catherine Ramslan says that most psychopaths are prettydestined to 434 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: create chaos for themselves and everyone else, and one of 435 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: her most high profile case studies explained exactly how they 436 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: do it. 437 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 8: You can't see this, but I'll describe it. This is 438 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 8: one that a psychopath named Dennis Raider, the BTK serial killer. 439 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 8: He calls his cubing. And so in my hand, I 440 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 8: have a cube, and on each side there is a 441 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 8: label like church leader, employee, family man, serial killer. Here's 442 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 8: the way this works. They have no roots in any 443 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 8: of these. All of them are part of their identity. 444 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 8: They can pivot quickly to whicheveryone works for them in 445 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 8: any given situation. So if for now family man is working, 446 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 8: that's what they're going to present to you. But they 447 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 8: can quickly change to a different side if the opportunity 448 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 8: arises that they consider to be in their self interest. 449 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,479 Speaker 1: So, just like BTK, Clara pivoted to a different identity. 450 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 8: They're not rooted in identity the way most of us are. 451 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 8: Most of us see ourselves in a certain way and 452 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 8: want to think there's consistency in our presentation to people, 453 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 8: and there's integrity and the things that we say that 454 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,479 Speaker 8: if I said this, I mean this. But that's not 455 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 8: in their thinking at all. They don't really care if 456 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 8: they're telling the truth or not. What they care but 457 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 8: is to get what they're out for, and so they 458 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 8: can pivot to the very next thing so fast. Even 459 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 8: if you have it on record, you can be recording 460 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 8: what they say. They're not even going to acknowledge it 461 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 8: because they know it doesn't matter. If you tell them 462 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 8: you just lied, I have you on tape, you lied, 463 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 8: they'll shrug it off and walk away and maybe they 464 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 8: can manipulate you. If they can't, they go into the 465 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 8: next person. 466 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: And doctor Craig Newman says it's important to be aware 467 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: of personality disorders, especially psychopathy, because your life might actually 468 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: depend on it. 469 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 7: If you run into a psychopath who potentially is going 470 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 7: to try and put hooks in you. The key is 471 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 7: is to protect yourself and one is document if you 472 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 7: can get video of this person's behavior, because they will 473 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 7: often be very good at manipulating the justice system. 474 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: Clara Phillips was determined to be done with the justice system, 475 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: and after being abandoned for twelve years, she had finally 476 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: had enough of her husband. 477 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 3: Clara put in the request to divorce at Armor, and 478 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 3: they couldn't find it, primarily because Armor changed his name. 479 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 3: He had kind of disappeared. She thought maybe he might 480 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 3: be dead, but he didn't contest it. He didn't find it. 481 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: Clara might have given up on Armor, but she wasn't 482 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: quite through with his family. After she was given permission 483 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: to leave the state, Clara traveled to Pittsburgh. She was 484 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: on the hunt for a wealthy relative to con She. 485 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 3: Was trying to engage with the Melons family, and unfortunately 486 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 3: she engaged with the wrong guy. William Andrew Mellon had 487 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 3: no money. He was also not in very good hell. 488 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: So Clara got nowhere with him. But the newspapers did 489 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: report something interesting. A reporter wrote that by nineteen thirty nine, 490 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: Clara was happily married to a man from a wealthy family. 491 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: That was according to someone who knew her from prison, 492 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: But it was just more of the lore connected to 493 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: Clara Phillips. It turns out that story was about Armor, 494 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 1: not some mystery man. 495 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 3: She had already made the transition to well, I'm married 496 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 3: into the Melon family, so therefore I'm a Melon, so 497 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 3: therefore Andrew Mellon, who is the Secretary of the Treasury. 498 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 3: That smile that makes me a part of one of 499 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 3: the wealthiest families in the United States is how she 500 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:46,640 Speaker 3: perceived herself. 501 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: This is her point of writing her own narratives. Clara 502 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: still considered herself a melon, but ultimately she was only 503 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: committed to her own family and herself. 504 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 3: You had a very cohesive family unit, and they had 505 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 3: one of their members that was in really bad trouble, 506 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 3: and what they were trying to do is not sacrifice 507 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 3: her to the world, but to keep her as a 508 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 3: part of the family unit. When she was released from 509 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 3: Tahatchepee Prison in nineteen thirty five, where does she end 510 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 3: up going right to mama? 511 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: But Clara Phillips continued to be an enigma, especially as 512 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: she started her new life after prison. 513 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 9: She ostasily vanishes from view, but we know that what 514 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 9: she really did was take back her maiden name of Weaver. 515 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 9: She learned to be a dental hygienist in prison. She 516 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 9: may have done that for a while. She did end 517 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 9: up working in I think a fishery at cannery in 518 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 9: San Diego. 519 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: So by nineteen forty, Clara was divorced from Armor and 520 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,719 Speaker 1: living with her family in San Diego, and as far 521 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: as she was concerned, her ex husband had vanished. But 522 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: Daniel Phillips says that wasn't quite true, because he headed 523 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: north to see his sister in Selinas, and once again 524 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: the police targeted Armor. 525 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 3: He was coming up from La on one oh one 526 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 3: and he had an open container in the car, got 527 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 3: stopped by high We patrolled just south of Salinas. 528 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: The officer let him go and Armor continued on to Salinas, 529 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: where his niece Janet lived. 530 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 4: I think I was too young to know any of 531 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 4: the details of Clara, but all of a sudden, out 532 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 4: of the blue, Armor showed up, just boom, here he was. 533 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 4: And he had come up from Los Angeles from the area. 534 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 4: And I think Clara must have been living down there somewhere, 535 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 4: because I think he was looking for her. I knew 536 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 4: he was stocking her. I knew that I'd heard that. 537 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: So after Clara divorced him, Armor became obsessed until it 538 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: became clear that she had moved on. 539 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 3: He pretty much kind of headquartered himself in three locations, 540 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 3: Los Angeles, San Francisco, and New York. And the last 541 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 3: time he was in California was probably in the late 542 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 3: mid sixties, early the mid sixties. He didn't want to 543 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 3: die in prison, so he said, I'm out of here. 544 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 3: I'm leaving California for good. So that's why he was 545 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 3: probably surprised more than anybody that Stephen found him. 546 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 6: I see, I've got so much stuff here. 547 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: Stephen McLean was Armour's nephew. 548 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 6: And I haven't looked at it in a while. You 549 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 6: know what I mean I've got. 550 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: Is this all your aunt's stuff? 551 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 6: Is that what it is? Well? This is this is 552 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 6: all the ant stuff here family photo. While let's look 553 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 6: at this. 554 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: Stephen and his uncle were very, very close. 555 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 6: He was the original bad boy, but he was a 556 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 6: good man. Okay, that's armor, handsome, handsome man. 557 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,959 Speaker 1: In fact, Stephen went to New York in nineteen seventy 558 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: four when his uncle was dying of cancer. 559 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 6: So I used to be in the export business and 560 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 6: I would come back in and out through New York 561 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 6: and I visited him on two or three occasions. The 562 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 6: last time, unfortunately, he was just a skeleton where he 563 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 6: was dying from lung cancer lenox Hill Hospital in New 564 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 6: York City. There's Armour's wallet, okay, and his I've got 565 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 6: his so Security card and so forth. See there, and this. 566 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: Is his wallet from a few. 567 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 6: Years James, Yeah, James Pierre exactly. And he had changed 568 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 6: his name because of all this Clara business. 569 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 3: I think he had reached the point that he was 570 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 3: enough for the drama. He changed his name. And you know, 571 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 3: back in those days there were no computers. No one 572 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 3: could cross reference as SOBI security numbers. Armer Lee Phillips 573 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 3: disappeared into the history books and Frank James Pierce replaced him. 574 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 6: I would talk to you about Clara at all, No, 575 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 6: and I didn't bring it up. 576 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: Why didn't you bring it up? 577 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 6: Well, I just hesitated to make him delve into the past. 578 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 6: Uh you some things sometimes you feel some things are 579 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 6: better left unsaid. I mean you were saying why I 580 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 6: didn't do it. It was probably just out of respect 581 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 6: for him without having to to broach the gory details. 582 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 5: Have you ever wondered about her? 583 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 6: Well about yeah, I mean I have, But as I 584 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,479 Speaker 6: say that, it's a convoluted series of tales. And we 585 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 6: had always heard that he broke his mother's heart. That 586 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 6: that's another reason why I just I didn't want to 587 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 6: bring it. 588 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: Up to armor Janet Collins says her grandmother was absolutely 589 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: devastated over Armour's disappearance. 590 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 4: I think she died thinking Armor had died because she 591 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 4: didn't know where he was or what it happen happened 592 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 4: to him. We knew that he just did a disappearing act, 593 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 4: and I think they must have all taken a pledge 594 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 4: of some sort that his mother was. 595 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 3: Not to find that out. That would have been a 596 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 3: terrible blow for her. 597 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 6: I just knew that he'd had a lifestyle that was 598 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 6: scandalous and regrettable. Our family has been a very Christian family, 599 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 6: and all of this stuff just kind of flew in 600 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 6: the face of that sort of thing that was regrettable too. 601 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: It still sounds like it is. 602 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, well it's done. You cannot bring it back. 603 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 6: We all make mistakes and we regret things, but there 604 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 6: in the past. 605 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: I'm back at the Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Glendale 606 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: in southern California. The year before her murder, Alberta Meadows 607 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: was heartbroken over her husband Sees death in a streetcar accident. 608 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: Alberta told her grandmother that she might consider remarrying, but 609 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: that she didn't think she could ever love another man. 610 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: One thing that's lost here is Alberta Meadows. I mean, 611 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: that's also what happens a true crime, is the victim 612 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: goes away because they can't compete with the killer. Exactly 613 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: what role does Alberta Meadows play in this whole story. 614 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 2: Other than being the victim? Probably not much, because not 615 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 2: much more was known about her. The attention then was 616 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 2: focused more on Clara because she was alive, she was 617 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,720 Speaker 2: still creating news Alberta. She was a widow. 618 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: Alberta's family buried her next to her husband, but they 619 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: never marked her grave. I asked Joan Renner to meet 620 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: me there. Why do you think they wouldn't put a 621 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: marker here? Well, I don't think. 622 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 9: I think they didn't put one here originally just because 623 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 9: the case was so spectacular. I think they just wanted 624 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 9: for to be able to rest in peace and sy 625 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 9: only way it could happen. 626 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,399 Speaker 1: But isn't that sad that she's been relegated to this? 627 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 9: Yeah, it is kind of sad. She's just sort of unknown. 628 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: I'm in Selina's, California, with Clara's niece, Jennet Collins. She's 629 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: showing me some keepsakes made by the aunt she never met. 630 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: Now tell me about the doileys. 631 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 4: I guess I was getting married or something, and my 632 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 4: folks passed on all this set of doilies to me. 633 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 4: And there were varying sizes of doilies, large ones, small ones, 634 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 4: and just nothing too elaborate. But they had a linen center. 635 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,919 Speaker 4: They were all circular and crocheted around the edges, maybe 636 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,959 Speaker 4: an inch or so of crochet. And the only ones 637 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,919 Speaker 4: I have left, and that's been sixty or seventy years ago, 638 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 4: Clara had done while she was in prison, and I 639 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 4: still haven't. But the little ones are the ones that 640 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 4: are left. And so my folks gave me these doilies 641 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 4: and I loved them. 642 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 1: These doilies are all Janet has from Clara Phillips and 643 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: the remaining members of the Mellon family are strangers. Did 644 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: you really care about being included in the Melon legacy? 645 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 4: We tried one time to just have a connection, just 646 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 4: to have them acknowledge the fact that my grandmother was 647 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 4: a bonafide Melon, Nelly Mellon from Peachtree, Texas, And they said, 648 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 4: we don't know you until James R. Melon the third. 649 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 4: He said, Jena, I need to get all your children's 650 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 4: names and everything I'm doing this big genealogy. Wow, that 651 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 4: meant more to me than anything. You're now acknowledged me 652 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 4: and my family as part of the melon tribe, so 653 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 4: to speak. 654 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just amazing to me that there could 655 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 1: be such a delineation. 656 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 4: Well, now we're being included. You know, sure we're over here, 657 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 4: but we're still part of the family. We're still included. 658 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: So what is it like to have this type of 659 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: history in your family. 660 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 4: I think every family has a few skeletons in their closet. 661 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:33,839 Speaker 3: There are a lot of. 662 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 4: Secrets in that family, a lot of secrets that they 663 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 4: don't know, inner family secrets, and they were not about 664 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:45,240 Speaker 4: to tell each other. It just doesn't really add up. 665 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: A lot of stuff in the story, doesn't it seem 666 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: to add up? 667 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 4: Yeah, and we just let it go. 668 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: How different would your life have been have you been 669 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: a melon from another brother? I mean, isn't that kind 670 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: of a luck of the draw sort of thing. 671 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,919 Speaker 4: Now I'm very pleased. I'm so blessed with my life. 672 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 3: I wouldn't trade her for the world. 673 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: Clara Phillips was a mystery even after her death. She 674 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: had been one of the most notorious female killers in 675 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: America and then she disappeared, and who knows who she 676 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,720 Speaker 1: became and if she hurt anyone else. 677 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 3: This is thirty years from when this happened to when 678 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 3: she died. What happened that thirty year span she went 679 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 3: off the grid. 680 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: The crux of this story seems to me to be 681 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 1: partly about family loyalty gone bad. 682 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 3: The family was more interested in protecting their own and 683 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 3: making sure that they stayed out of harm's way than 684 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 3: they were with realizing an individual who had no reason 685 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 3: to be killed was dead and it was because of 686 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 3: what Clara did. She never told the truth, and she 687 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 3: kept playing this game, this con all the way until 688 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 3: she dropped off the grid. And when she dropped off 689 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 3: the grid, her life I'm sure completely changed. So in 690 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 3: her case, I think she saw her life doing the 691 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 3: Clara Phillips show was pretty much over and there were 692 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 3: no reruns. 693 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us for this season of 694 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: tenfold More Wicked. Next Monday you'll hear the trailer for 695 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: our next season, which is out March seventh, So subscribe now. 696 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: My new book, All That Is Wicked is available for 697 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: pre order now in hardback and ebooks. More information on 698 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,360 Speaker 1: the audiobook later, All That Is Wicked is based on 699 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 1: our first season of tenfold War Wicked. You might think 700 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: you know the whole story of killer Edward Rulolf's crimes, 701 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: but there's so much more. My book American Sherlock is 702 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: also available. This has been an exactly right tenfold More 703 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 1: Media Production producers Jason Whaling, Alexis Mrosi and Laura Sobel, 704 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: Designer Eric Friend, composer Curtis Heath, artwork Nick Toga. Executive 705 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: producers are Georgia Hartstark, Karen Kilgarriff and Danielle Kramer. Follow 706 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: us on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold More Wicked and 707 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 1: on Twitter at tenfold More. And if you know of 708 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 1: a historical true crime that could use some attention, email 709 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 1: us at info at tenfoldmoremedia dot com. Subscribe now on 710 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 1: Amazon Music, Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like to listen.