1
00:00:09,959 --> 00:00:13,880
Speaker 1: If you're listening to a tenor foot TV podcast, Girls.

2
00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,639
Speaker 2: Krook County is released weekly and brought to you absolutely free.

3
00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,079
Speaker 2: But if you want to hear the whole season right now,

4
00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,840
Speaker 2: it's available ad free on tenderfoot Plus. For more information,

5
00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:35,560
Speaker 2: check out the show notes. Enjoy the episode.

6
00:00:34,480 --> 00:00:38,120
Speaker 3: You're listening to Krook County. The views and opinions expressed

7
00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,560
Speaker 3: in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating

8
00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,360
Speaker 3: in the podcast. This episode also contains subject matter, including

9
00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,800
Speaker 3: graphic depictions of violence, which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener.

10
00:00:49,839 --> 00:00:51,280
Speaker 3: Discretion is advised.

11
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,840
Speaker 2: Previously on Crook.

12
00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,920
Speaker 4: County for six months, he proposed to me.

13
00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,560
Speaker 2: Kenny, got engaged, called it off only a few months later.

14
00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,359
Speaker 2: He realized, at nineteen years old, what am I doing?

15
00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,800
Speaker 2: Being a gain aged? The cops organized a few phony busts.

16
00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,320
Speaker 1: So I took two of those and the girls would

17
00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,600
Speaker 1: come with me and you know, a little party.

18
00:01:15,639 --> 00:01:18,120
Speaker 2: Everybody be laughing, having a good time. And a robbery

19
00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,399
Speaker 2: at the club turned out to be an inside job.

20
00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,039
Speaker 1: Why Danny was working, He had someone come in and

21
00:01:24,359 --> 00:01:26,399
Speaker 1: robbed the place, so of course Dan's gotta put up

22
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:27,679
Speaker 1: his arms, take the money and leave.

23
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,439
Speaker 2: Danny had to go, and Kenny was asked to step in.

24
00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 1: Got him in the car and drove him to one

25
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,800
Speaker 1: of the chop shops, dropped him off there, and whatever

26
00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:37,559
Speaker 1: I did with him from.

27
00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:37,959
Speaker 5: There, I don't know.

28
00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:57,719
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Kyle Tequila, Welcome to Crook County.

29
00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,040
Speaker 6: When we were growing up, Dad was the coolest guy

30
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,040
Speaker 6: in the whole town. Everybody wanted Dad as their dad,

31
00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,320
Speaker 6: but they didn't know what was going on at home.

32
00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 6: The game that they played for me and Ken was

33
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,239
Speaker 6: really bad. There was a loud violence.

34
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,960
Speaker 2: Episode five, Bully.

35
00:02:27,359 --> 00:02:28,880
Speaker 7: You can begin to listen to that crowd.

36
00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:30,119
Speaker 5: They know they can tell.

37
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,159
Speaker 6: Slowly, but surely, the nineteen seventies are disappearing.

38
00:02:35,519 --> 00:02:54,960
Speaker 7: The nineteen eighties will be upon us. He first nineteen

39
00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:56,519
Speaker 7: in America.

40
00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,600
Speaker 8: We have a brand new decade.

41
00:03:00,799 --> 00:03:04,720
Speaker 7: It's a whole new beginning. Everybody, please kiss your loved one, Come.

42
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:09,000
Speaker 8: On, fish, your loved one, your husband, your sweetheart.

43
00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,200
Speaker 7: I don't want the last next years, everybody, let's hear it.

44
00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:18,639
Speaker 2: Everybody seen Nixon, Watergate, the end of the Vietnam War,

45
00:03:19,359 --> 00:03:26,320
Speaker 2: a global recession, gas shortages, rolling blackouts, crime waves, record unemployment,

46
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:32,079
Speaker 2: and the ominous shadow of the Cold War, the nineteen

47
00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,640
Speaker 2: seventies was a decade steeped in anxiety and uncertainty, and

48
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:41,719
Speaker 2: the curtain had been pulled back on the American dream. Hell,

49
00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:47,720
Speaker 2: even Disco was dead. History may label this decade the

50
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,640
Speaker 2: Great Awakening, but for Ken, now in his mid twenties,

51
00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,640
Speaker 2: it felt more like some terrible dream. And while the

52
00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,000
Speaker 2: world was racing toward the glimmering promise of the nineteen eighties,

53
00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:05,800
Speaker 2: Ken stood still feeling nothing at all, no comfort, no hope.

54
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 2: He was simply numb. After they hit on Danny, the

55
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 2: bosses knew they could count on Kenny for heavy work,

56
00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,680
Speaker 2: and when the calls came, there wasn't so much of

57
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,880
Speaker 2: a question as a demand, and Kenny had no choice

58
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,000
Speaker 2: but to comply. As the pressures of his new reality mounted,

59
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,120
Speaker 2: he withdrew further and turned a cocaine to numbs pain.

60
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,480
Speaker 2: In this world, emotion was a weakness, and sympathy could

61
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,080
Speaker 2: get you killed. If he wanted to stay alive in

62
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,600
Speaker 2: his new role within the Outfit, he would need to

63
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 2: dig deep down to the darkest part of his soul

64
00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,920
Speaker 2: and abandon the light forever.

65
00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,640
Speaker 1: I could be a pretty nasty for anyway, I was

66
00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,680
Speaker 1: recruited into doing some hits. Okay, so there was another

67
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,800
Speaker 1: part of that. So not only working and running whorehouses,

68
00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,960
Speaker 1: I'm doing occasional hits on the site, all right, ordered

69
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:07,680
Speaker 1: hits our own people.

70
00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,320
Speaker 2: Rogue. I asked him what he means by going rogue?

71
00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,960
Speaker 1: So what these guys would do. These guys are the

72
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:20,640
Speaker 1: guys that would fuck up. They'd steal, they'd rat, they

73
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,200
Speaker 1: were just bad seats, or they were or they were

74
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,640
Speaker 1: overly aggressive, or they became dangerous. They became rogue, meaning

75
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,440
Speaker 1: they lost control of what they were doing. They just

76
00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,560
Speaker 1: started getting violent and you know, could start bringing the

77
00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,360
Speaker 1: heat down on this particular outfit that I worked for.

78
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,240
Speaker 1: So we wanted to keep the heat away. So if

79
00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:44,040
Speaker 1: somebody became rogue, somebody needed to do something about these people.

80
00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,640
Speaker 1: My job was to be the heat, be the heat

81
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:52,080
Speaker 1: for my particular outfit. You know, I got a reputation

82
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 1: though after a while, where you know, if they knew

83
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:55,839
Speaker 1: I was coming, he were running.

84
00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:04,080
Speaker 2: I remembered something he used to tell my brother and

85
00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 2: I when we were kids. He would say when he

86
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,400
Speaker 2: was young that he was the bully of the bullies

87
00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,080
Speaker 2: at his school and if we ever saw someone getting

88
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,360
Speaker 2: bullied at our school, that we should step in and

89
00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,320
Speaker 2: stop it. He was quite proud of this bit of

90
00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,760
Speaker 2: parenting advice, and to be honest, I was quite proud

91
00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,680
Speaker 2: of him too. I always admired him for it, and

92
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,000
Speaker 2: to this day I think about those very words. I

93
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,960
Speaker 2: even taught that same lesson to my own kid, defend

94
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,320
Speaker 2: the weak and have the courage to fight against those

95
00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,440
Speaker 2: who would fight against you. And now, more than twenty

96
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 2: years later, here is my dad telling me that he

97
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 2: was hired to apply a version of that logic to

98
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:50,000
Speaker 2: the metaphorical bullies of the outfit. At least that's what

99
00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,240
Speaker 2: he's telling me. It is very possible that he's just

100
00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,440
Speaker 2: softening the blow about the kind of people that were

101
00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,800
Speaker 2: in his crosshairs. I mean, does it really make me

102
00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:01,120
Speaker 2: feel any better that the only people he killed were

103
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:06,880
Speaker 2: bad guys? Honestly, the answer is yes, it does. But

104
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 2: the simple fact is I will never really know if

105
00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,840
Speaker 2: any of this stuff is true. All I can do

106
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:14,400
Speaker 2: is take him at his word.

107
00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,520
Speaker 1: Whether it was a hit, whether it was a beating,

108
00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 1: just depend on what the punishment was called. Now, I

109
00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,200
Speaker 1: never decided what the punishment was. I was always given

110
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:31,000
Speaker 1: the punishment on a little piece of paper by a

111
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:35,280
Speaker 1: guy named He always gave me my assignment big fat.

112
00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,080
Speaker 2: And now let me introduce you to the next character

113
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,840
Speaker 2: in our story, a feared boss within the outfit and

114
00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,280
Speaker 2: a man who would make an enormous impact on the

115
00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:53,360
Speaker 2: life of young Kenny. Paul Taglia, which I will remind

116
00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,240
Speaker 2: you for the safety of everyone involved, is not his

117
00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:56,800
Speaker 2: real name.

118
00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,680
Speaker 1: I would get a phone call, get on the phone,

119
00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,400
Speaker 1: meet me, and I knew exactly where.

120
00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:05,480
Speaker 2: To meet him.

121
00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,560
Speaker 1: And I'd meet him in a parking lot and one

122
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,680
Speaker 1: of the houses were there, one of the whorehouses were there.

123
00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,160
Speaker 1: I meet him at a parking lot. I'd walk up

124
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 1: to his big fucking Cadillac and he'd rolled on his window,

125
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,520
Speaker 1: hand me a little piece of paper, and then he'd

126
00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,280
Speaker 1: drive away. And on a piece of paper was where

127
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 1: the person was going to be, the type of car

128
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:34,360
Speaker 1: he drove, and license plates, and that would and that

129
00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,440
Speaker 1: What all that did was made me do more work.

130
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,960
Speaker 1: But it kept them even, kept them more and kept

131
00:08:40,959 --> 00:08:44,000
Speaker 1: them further away from the hit. So because now I

132
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,480
Speaker 1: had to do all the leg work, So I'd have

133
00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,720
Speaker 1: to go look for the car, look for the license plate,

134
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,040
Speaker 1: wait for the person, get in there, scope them, watch them. Okay,

135
00:08:52,079 --> 00:08:53,440
Speaker 1: that's so I got to hit. I gotta hit that

136
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,000
Speaker 1: guy right there, based on the license plate and the

137
00:08:57,079 --> 00:08:59,839
Speaker 1: car description. Okay, so I know I got a description

138
00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:02,679
Speaker 1: a guy I have to hit, and then I would

139
00:09:03,439 --> 00:09:06,840
Speaker 1: do my due diligence for about two weeks, follow him around,

140
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,360
Speaker 1: get a pattern, and then after I figured out how

141
00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:12,879
Speaker 1: I was going to do it, and I always did

142
00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:17,280
Speaker 1: it one way. I would uh, I would do it.

143
00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:18,839
Speaker 1: It's all that was to it. It didn't happen a lot,

144
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 1: but it happened to people. It happened enough for it

145
00:09:20,719 --> 00:09:24,240
Speaker 1: and or it really bothers me. It really bothers me

146
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:24,520
Speaker 1: a lot.

147
00:09:27,839 --> 00:09:29,439
Speaker 2: I don't like to talk about this. I don't want

148
00:09:29,439 --> 00:09:30,800
Speaker 2: to talk about that shit. Man.

149
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,800
Speaker 1: First of all, I'm trying desperately to forget all this stuff.

150
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:40,520
Speaker 1: A therapist is probably gonna tell me, no, you need

151
00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,719
Speaker 1: to spit it out and then deal with it. Well,

152
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,520
Speaker 1: I think I've already dealt with it, but I'm still

153
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,719
Speaker 1: trying to bury it because it because it's not a

154
00:09:47,719 --> 00:09:50,000
Speaker 1: pleasant thought. It's not something that I'm very proud of

155
00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,599
Speaker 1: at all. And I got don't take a quick break.

156
00:09:52,719 --> 00:09:53,359
Speaker 9: Yeah, I gotta.

157
00:09:54,360 --> 00:10:00,160
Speaker 2: Swallow over so stupid, we decided to break for the day.

158
00:10:00,959 --> 00:10:06,160
Speaker 2: He's exhausted, and honestly so am I. There's so much

159
00:10:06,199 --> 00:10:08,839
Speaker 2: to unpack here and I don't even nowhere to begin.

160
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,400
Speaker 2: I started recording these interviews back in twenty seventeen, and

161
00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,319
Speaker 2: it was apparent then that his health was failing him.

162
00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,640
Speaker 2: Since then, he's continued to decline, and I honestly don't

163
00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,280
Speaker 2: know how long he has left. He recently showed me

164
00:10:24,319 --> 00:10:27,000
Speaker 2: an entire backpack full of prescriptions he's taken for a

165
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:33,920
Speaker 2: dozen or so conditions. He's pale, swollen, shakes uncontrollably. His

166
00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,239
Speaker 2: legs are covered in red marks and bruises, and he's

167
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 2: a hard time walking. He's about the furthest thing you

168
00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,280
Speaker 2: can get from the Fearless Mafia, heavy of his youth.

169
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,840
Speaker 2: What the hell happened to this man? How was he

170
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,560
Speaker 2: able to do the things he did? What kind of

171
00:10:52,599 --> 00:10:57,680
Speaker 2: person is my father? And what kind of person does

172
00:10:57,719 --> 00:10:58,240
Speaker 2: that make me?

173
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:15,920
Speaker 7: Look at this guy?

174
00:11:16,199 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 5: Man?

175
00:11:16,959 --> 00:11:18,400
Speaker 9: How are you doing?

176
00:11:18,439 --> 00:11:18,559
Speaker 5: Bud?

177
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 2: Goodness to you? All right, it's been way, way too long.

178
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:27,880
Speaker 2: I'm back in Chicago visiting my uncle, rich Ken's twin brother.

179
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:29,239
Speaker 4: Long ago.

180
00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,679
Speaker 6: Yeah, I got married and well I left school in

181
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,839
Speaker 6: oh seven, and I moved to Atlanta all right, pretty.

182
00:11:34,599 --> 00:11:37,960
Speaker 2: Much came back like maybe once and there was too

183
00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 2: much shrama, and so I never came back.

184
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,880
Speaker 6: I left high school, never even looked over my shoulder.

185
00:11:45,199 --> 00:11:46,800
Speaker 6: It's like, fuck you, I'm out.

186
00:11:47,079 --> 00:11:51,280
Speaker 2: It's his birthday, that's right, Yeah, you remember that. What

187
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:52,160
Speaker 2: it's like in two days?

188
00:11:52,199 --> 00:11:58,119
Speaker 4: Isn't it today?

189
00:11:54,559 --> 00:12:01,120
Speaker 7: You probably should?

190
00:12:02,319 --> 00:12:08,400
Speaker 2: Oh? My god, nice going, Kyle boy.

191
00:12:08,439 --> 00:12:10,959
Speaker 6: You look like your dad.

192
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:11,719
Speaker 7: That look?

193
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,280
Speaker 4: That look? Did I just give you the Ken look?

194
00:12:15,199 --> 00:12:15,439
Speaker 2: Look?

195
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,439
Speaker 4: Holy shit? Is it going to give you the chills?

196
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:25,959
Speaker 7: And that's a Ken look too.

197
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,840
Speaker 2: I am my father's son. We spent some time catching

198
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,960
Speaker 2: up and cracking jokes about my old man.

199
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,360
Speaker 4: What's the project again? So what's a podcast? So what's

200
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:37,800
Speaker 4: the deal?

201
00:12:38,719 --> 00:12:40,520
Speaker 2: I can tell Rich is a bit hesitant to dig

202
00:12:40,599 --> 00:12:43,239
Speaker 2: up the past like this, and I get it from

203
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,280
Speaker 2: what I've been hearing. It's not like they had the

204
00:12:45,319 --> 00:12:46,359
Speaker 2: happiest childhood.

205
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:49,200
Speaker 4: My name's Rich.

206
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:56,959
Speaker 6: I'm the oldest twin Ken's fraternal twin brother by how long.

207
00:12:59,319 --> 00:13:00,640
Speaker 4: Six minutes? I believe it is.

208
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,040
Speaker 6: And since I came out first, I've always said that

209
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,880
Speaker 6: the problems I have with my my back of my

210
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,560
Speaker 6: neck and stuff for your dad's fault, because you know

211
00:13:08,599 --> 00:13:10,720
Speaker 6: he was stepping on me that whole time.

212
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:11,320
Speaker 4: In the womb.

213
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,920
Speaker 2: They were the firstborns of the family, followed by younger

214
00:13:15,959 --> 00:13:17,319
Speaker 2: brothers Stan and.

215
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,520
Speaker 6: Matt Stands five years younger than myself and your dad,

216
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,000
Speaker 6: and then eleven years for Matt.

217
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 2: He tells me there was a joke in the family

218
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,359
Speaker 2: that Ken must have had a different father.

219
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:35,040
Speaker 6: Because Ken and I are so different. We don't look

220
00:13:35,079 --> 00:13:37,559
Speaker 6: the same, we don't act the same. I mean, there

221
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,079
Speaker 6: was nothing about us at that point that was even

222
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,479
Speaker 6: close to being twin material. So yeah, it always pissed

223
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,880
Speaker 6: off Mile though when we would say that, what's a

224
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:48,480
Speaker 6: family joke?

225
00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,800
Speaker 2: So she's probably like, wait today, now.

226
00:13:53,839 --> 00:13:54,520
Speaker 4: There was.

227
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,119
Speaker 6: You know, that's kind of funny because you know there

228
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:04,040
Speaker 6: was some kind of half truth meaning behind our thought process.

229
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:05,280
Speaker 1: But you know.

230
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,439
Speaker 2: That's interesting. If you remember from episode one, Kenny was

231
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,720
Speaker 2: kicked out of his house by his mom for accusing

232
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,280
Speaker 2: her of having an affair, which she was and which

233
00:14:17,319 --> 00:14:19,400
Speaker 2: of course started off this whole chain of events that

234
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,720
Speaker 2: led to Ken joining the Outfit in the first place.

235
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,240
Speaker 2: I asked Ritch what he remembers I.

236
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,120
Speaker 6: Was out So when I came home, I walked through

237
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,720
Speaker 6: because I would always come in the basement door. And

238
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,120
Speaker 6: when I walked into the basement door, I heard screaming

239
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,080
Speaker 6: and yelling from the kitchen. So as you walk up

240
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,440
Speaker 6: the stairs, you walk right into the kitchen on you know,

241
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,840
Speaker 6: one end of the kitchen was Mom with Dad's forty five,

242
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,600
Speaker 6: just screaming, bloody murder and pointing to gun, just shaking,

243
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,440
Speaker 6: you know. And Ken was in the ollow corner of

244
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,720
Speaker 6: the kitchen, just you know, in the back. I don't

245
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,440
Speaker 6: remember anything that was said, just a lot of noise

246
00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,200
Speaker 6: and stuff. And I walked up to mother and she's

247
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,040
Speaker 6: like this, I just stepped right in front of her.

248
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,920
Speaker 6: So now I got a gun pointing right at my chest.

249
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,600
Speaker 6: I grabbed her hand, I lifted them up so her

250
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,840
Speaker 6: hands are now over her head and I'm holding her

251
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 6: hands on the gun compared to Ken said you should leave,

252
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:19,280
Speaker 6: and he.

253
00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:25,080
Speaker 2: Left and that was it and he never came back. Wow. Wow, WOWOW.

254
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,640
Speaker 2: I loved my Grandma Adele. She was the sweetest old

255
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,720
Speaker 2: woman you could ever meet. She loved science and history

256
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,880
Speaker 2: and Native American culture. The stories of her younger years

257
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,960
Speaker 2: are full of intrigue and adventure. She moved out to

258
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,200
Speaker 2: California in her late teens and was one of the

259
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,800
Speaker 2: first women ever to work at NASA. She then took

260
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,320
Speaker 2: a job in the FBI and was only one of

261
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,520
Speaker 2: a handful of women there. She was a trailblazer and

262
00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,240
Speaker 2: painted beautiful landscapes inspired by all her travels that filled

263
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,920
Speaker 2: the walls of her home. She taught me how to

264
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,840
Speaker 2: play piano and to appreciate the wild beauty of nature,

265
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,280
Speaker 2: and to picture this saint of a woman pointing a

266
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,120
Speaker 2: gun at her teenage son is completely unbelievable to me.

267
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,200
Speaker 2: But if I've learned anything at this point, it's that

268
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:24,120
Speaker 2: nobody is exactly who you think they are. And apparently

269
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,960
Speaker 2: my sweet old grandma wasn't always so sweet.

270
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 6: Did she ever tell you the stories about her brawling

271
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 6: in Chicago and stuff, the street fights everything?

272
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:38,320
Speaker 4: Never heard about that?

273
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:38,560
Speaker 5: Huh?

274
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:39,759
Speaker 7: Yeah?

275
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,920
Speaker 6: I remember my telling me that her and her friend's

276
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,840
Speaker 6: pals whatever would go out for the street fights, and

277
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,680
Speaker 6: the girls would take towels and they would wrap up

278
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 6: their boobs, I mean, like tape them down, you know,

279
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:55,920
Speaker 6: so that there was nothing hanging out there, nothing to

280
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,680
Speaker 6: grab on, its nothing to get hurt. Basically before they

281
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,520
Speaker 6: went to their street fights.

282
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she.

283
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:03,160
Speaker 4: Was a badass.

284
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,199
Speaker 6: We're talking knives and clubs and all sorts of stuff,

285
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,919
Speaker 6: you bet, Oh yeah, yeah, sweep my ass.

286
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:13,960
Speaker 4: You didn't grow up with.

287
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:20,159
Speaker 2: Her, Okay. So if Grandma was some sort of fearless

288
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,600
Speaker 2: knife fighting street pirate, then I guess you can argue

289
00:17:23,639 --> 00:17:26,280
Speaker 2: that a hot temper is just in our blood, and

290
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,439
Speaker 2: Ken was just to chip off the old block.

291
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:35,119
Speaker 6: Anything could set him off, anything, blind rage, out of

292
00:17:35,159 --> 00:17:40,240
Speaker 6: control could not stop him temper, And until he got

293
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,719
Speaker 6: past that rage, you couldn't stop him. It's like he

294
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:45,320
Speaker 6: didn't even know what he was doing.

295
00:17:45,399 --> 00:17:45,999
Speaker 4: Practically.

296
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,600
Speaker 2: He tells me a few old stories, like Ken punching

297
00:17:49,639 --> 00:17:52,840
Speaker 2: out a gym teacher in high school, or stealing Rich's

298
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,800
Speaker 2: car at sixteen and disappearing for a week, apparently driving

299
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,600
Speaker 2: it all the way to California, and.

300
00:17:58,639 --> 00:18:02,480
Speaker 4: I was gonna have him arrested for car theft, you know.

301
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,720
Speaker 2: And then showing up like nothing happened.

302
00:18:04,879 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 6: Hey kids, Hot, eh raight, what's going on, buddy?

303
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,800
Speaker 4: Thing's fine. I'm like, fucking an asshole, you stole my

304
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 4: fucking car.

305
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,000
Speaker 2: And stories of cruel violence.

306
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 4: He shot me once, he stabbed me once.

307
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,560
Speaker 2: That was fun. He just stopped there. You have to

308
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 2: tell me the story.

309
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:23,880
Speaker 6: It was a BB gun, but it was a BB

310
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:25,880
Speaker 6: gun that could go halfway through a two by four.

311
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,959
Speaker 6: I still have that BB gun, by the way, it's downstairs.

312
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,160
Speaker 4: You still have the BB in your flash. And all

313
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 4: that we dug out is that way.

314
00:18:35,639 --> 00:18:37,600
Speaker 2: So did the stabb income because he did.

315
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 4: That was a different That was a different time.

316
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 7: No.

317
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 6: He he stabbed me with a needle. The needle was

318
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 6: probably about eight inches long, and he just, you know,

319
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:52,719
Speaker 6: in his blank rage wisdom. I was walking up the

320
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,239
Speaker 6: stairs and he just came up behind me and just

321
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:55,879
Speaker 6: stabbed me right.

322
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 4: And he asked, what.

323
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,719
Speaker 2: I'm beginning to doubt my dad's bully of the bullies claim.

324
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,080
Speaker 2: The story has always been he was the bully of

325
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:05,920
Speaker 2: the bullies, and you would beat up like the bullies

326
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,119
Speaker 2: at school. And as you know, he's the protector of

327
00:19:08,159 --> 00:19:09,239
Speaker 2: the innocent at school, he.

328
00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,960
Speaker 4: Particular through the innocent. He was a freaking cycle.

329
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,719
Speaker 7: Protector of the innocent. Did he tell you that the.

330
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 4: Bully he was the bully? Yeah, he was a bully.

331
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one hurt. I know it may sound silly

332
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,639
Speaker 2: after everything else we've heard, but this one positive character.

333
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 2: Trait was something I held onto my whole life. It

334
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 2: was foundational to the image I had of my father,

335
00:19:36,399 --> 00:19:39,199
Speaker 2: and to learn it was complete bullshit. It's a fucking

336
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,720
Speaker 2: hard pill to swallow.

337
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 1: You know.

338
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 6: As he got older, I'm sure he learned how to

339
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,439
Speaker 6: control it and use it to his advantage. But you know,

340
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,800
Speaker 6: as we were growing up, just totally out of control.

341
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,640
Speaker 6: There was a lot of pain in agony, and yeah,

342
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:55,800
Speaker 6: there was a lot of violence.

343
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 2: Violence, both physical and emotional, was a constant part of

344
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 2: their daily lives. The father would beat the kid's bloody wap.

345
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,199
Speaker 4: Right across the head against the wall, knock me up.

346
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,120
Speaker 2: And their mother, as we've learned, was just as cruel, and.

347
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,239
Speaker 6: She picked up a kitchen chair and she was going

348
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 6: to crack me over the head with it.

349
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,399
Speaker 2: They would starve their kids while mom and dad ate

350
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:22,159
Speaker 2: a nice meal.

351
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,159
Speaker 6: I remember eating dog food because I was so damn hungry,

352
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,439
Speaker 6: Or when i'd give the dog a treat, I would.

353
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 4: Bite the ends off and I would eat it before

354
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 4: I would give it to the dog.

355
00:20:33,399 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 2: I was hungry, and at times two things so horrible

356
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 2: my uncle won't even speak of them.

357
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:40,919
Speaker 5: You know.

358
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,679
Speaker 6: Some of the torture stuff I wouldn't. I'd never speak

359
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 6: of it ever, Yeah, because I don't really want, you know,

360
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 6: mom and Dad to be portrayed as you know, animal

361
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 6: child abusers.

362
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,120
Speaker 4: Even though it was kind of like.

363
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,679
Speaker 6: That, you know, we probably would have been taken away,

364
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 6: you know, in today's day and age. You know, I'm

365
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,359
Speaker 6: sure we would have taken away if somebody had said something.

366
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 6: But that's not how it was back then.

367
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 4: I Mean, the.

368
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,399
Speaker 2: Amazing thing is is I don't I don't see you

369
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 2: as having any of this volatility and in his violence.

370
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 4: And like that.

371
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:23,759
Speaker 2: D he never struck us.

372
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 4: That's amazing.

373
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 2: He never struck us.

374
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, he made And that's another thing that so bizarre

375
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 4: about this.

376
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,639
Speaker 2: It's like, why again, why we never even like, you know,

377
00:21:32,639 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 2: I've seen him beat up a guy or two or

378
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 2: three or five, But.

379
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,479
Speaker 6: Did he tell you about beat the guy up and

380
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 6: left him on the hood of his car?

381
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 4: Do you know why?

382
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:41,639
Speaker 2: That one?

383
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:43,879
Speaker 6: This was when we were working at the bar up

384
00:21:43,879 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 6: in Northbrook at the hotel. Ken and I were both

385
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 6: working there, and you know, they had cops that would

386
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 6: come in and they would be the security, you know,

387
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 6: part time job stuff. And he was telling me about

388
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 6: this quality had that there was a guy passed out

389
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 6: on the hood of his car in the middle of

390
00:22:00,399 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 6: an intersection, and oh, okay, fine. Well the next day

391
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 6: I'm talking to Ken and he's telling me about this

392
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 6: guy who he dragged out of the window of his car,

393
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 6: beat the shit out of him, and left him on

394
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 6: the hood of his car in the intersection.

395
00:22:14,399 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 7: I'm like, oh, that was you.

396
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 2: What's interesting about this incident is it would have been

397
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 2: in those early years after Ken joined the outfit, so

398
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 2: it's very possible it was mob related. I asked him

399
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 2: if he knew what his brother was into at that time.

400
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 4: I knew that he was definitely dealing drugs. I knew

401
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 4: that he was.

402
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 6: Working quote unquote in a whorehouse. But I never got

403
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 6: into any of those details.

404
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,239
Speaker 4: I really didn't want to know.

405
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 6: You know, it just it wasn't my lifestyle. You know,

406
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 6: it was nothing I really cared about. You know, that's

407
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 6: what you want to.

408
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:55,719
Speaker 2: Do, that's what you do.

409
00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 4: You could see why he could be.

410
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 6: An enforcer because he just had that mentality, very violent mentality.

411
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 5: I should have word more in you were a man?

412
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 2: Oh high? Yeah, yeah, I don't need to worry about

413
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 2: some contagione.

414
00:23:24,879 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 5: Nice to meet you.

415
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 7: Well, I have met you several times, but you.

416
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 4: Were a child, I was a baby.

417
00:23:29,639 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 7: Huh.

418
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 9: Yeah.

419
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 2: This is Maureen, my dad's high school girlfriend.

420
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 7: Thank you for having me and doing this. I don't

421
00:23:37,399 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 7: know what I'm doing. I don't know what you're doing here.

422
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 5: Your father wouldn't tell me anything.

423
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 7: He was very short and said, I don't have time.

424
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 7: I will tell you.

425
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 2: Everything, all right.

426
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 7: Well that's true.

427
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 2: I will tell you everything, and hopefully you'll tell me everything. Maureen.

428
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,239
Speaker 2: It was a name that would occasionally echo through our

429
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,279
Speaker 2: childhood home. She was like this mythical creature who at

430
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 2: the very mention of her cursed name would send my

431
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,999
Speaker 2: mother into fits of rage and jealousy. And I just

432
00:24:06,159 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 2: I feel so bad that she.

433
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 5: I know, oh how much time she spent hating me,

434
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 5: hating him, thinking, you know thoughts. I'm a woman, I

435
00:24:17,159 --> 00:24:20,959
Speaker 5: know how women think. And if there's one regret that

436
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 5: I have is that I feel bad that your mom

437
00:24:25,159 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 5: thought Kenny and I were having interfere And we never did, never, ever, ever, ever,

438
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 5: not since we were high school sweethearts at sixteen and

439
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 5: seventeen years old.

440
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: Tell me about it.

441
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 5: We were just we were like the movie Grease. You know,

442
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 5: it was like sort of like John Travolta and Olivia Newton.

443
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 2: John, No, stop stop, stop, stop, stop stoping. No, I'm

444
00:24:58,639 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 2: not doing this again. First, my dad is John Travolta

445
00:25:01,639 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 2: from Saturday Night Fever. Okay, fine, but now you're telling

446
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 2: me he's John Travolta from Greece. I just I can't.

447
00:25:10,399 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do it. Okay, let's move on.

448
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 5: He was cool, He was a real cool kid. He

449
00:25:18,399 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 5: was my first boyfriend.

450
00:25:22,399 --> 00:25:23,959
Speaker 7: And it was fun.

451
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,479
Speaker 5: We had fun, and we had good times, and of

452
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 5: course we wanted to grow up and get married and

453
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 5: have a household of kids and just didn't work out

454
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 5: that way.

455
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,719
Speaker 2: I have a million questions for Maureen because she has

456
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 2: a truly unique perspective in all this, as someone who

457
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,479
Speaker 2: saw a softer side of Kenny during those formative teenage years.

458
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 5: I don't think I've ever loved anybody as much as

459
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 5: a friend as him. You know, they say that you've

460
00:25:49,639 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 5: got if you've got five good friends on one hand,

461
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 5: you're a lucky person.

462
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 4: And he's one of them.

463
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 2: He's been we've been good friends. I asked her about

464
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,719
Speaker 2: Kenny's fabled hot temper.

465
00:26:03,159 --> 00:26:08,999
Speaker 5: I never saw him with a temper or being aggressive

466
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 5: or anything like that.

467
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 2: Or if she was aware of the abuse the brothers

468
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: were victims of at home.

469
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 5: He didn't want to be at home. He didn't like

470
00:26:19,159 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 5: being there. He liked being at our house. My mom

471
00:26:21,879 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 5: would come into my room at ten or eleven o'clock

472
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 5: and say, we're in someone's in the backyard. First, I

473
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 5: looked out the front window, and I see his car,

474
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 5: and I go in the back. He used to take

475
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 5: a tent and tent in our backyard and sleep. Wow,

476
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 5: I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, my mom said that

477
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 5: she had seen it a few times, but it was

478
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 5: too late to wake me up. And then that was

479
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 5: and I went in there.

480
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 2: And I was like, what are you doing? He said,

481
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 2: I don't want to go home. Or if she knew

482
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 2: of his ties to the mafia.

483
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 5: There would be no way Ken would do any of

484
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 5: those things. Everybody adored him, They loved him, They cared

485
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 5: about him, and they trusted him.

486
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 2: She goes on to say that she only recently heard

487
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 2: about it from Kenny's mother, Adele, when he.

488
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 5: Went over to Calibournia. She started calling me and telling

489
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 5: me all these things, and that's when I found out

490
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 5: about the mafia. That's when I found out about drugs.

491
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 5: She said, well, you know he was junkie. I said, no,

492
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 5: I didn't know that, but now I do. I guess.

493
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 5: And she also told me that he murdered someone. Oh

494
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,719
Speaker 5: my god, I can't believe cute people.

495
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 2: Oh my god, how did he get that way? She's

496
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: crying and takes a moment to collect herself, and then

497
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 2: suddenly she remembers something from long ago.

498
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 5: Did he ever tell you a story of Kenny Mindelki,

499
00:28:01,879 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 5: the boy that drowned? No, it was his best friend.

500
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 7: They were all.

501
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 5: Set to go scuba diving. There were like five boys,

502
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 5: and I had to work that day, and my parents

503
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 5: had to work at the restaurant. There was no one

504
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 5: to watch my four siblings. And I said to Kenny,

505
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 5: said would you do me a big favor and watch

506
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,759
Speaker 5: the kids? And he said, I'm already written signed up

507
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 5: to go scuba diving with Mendelki and the rest of

508
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 5: the guys. And I said please, and he said, okay,

509
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 5: I'll do it. So he stayed home. The equipment that

510
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:51,519
Speaker 5: he was to have used was given to Mendelki, his buddy,

511
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 5: and Mendelki's equipment failed and he was like, he's dead

512
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,279
Speaker 5: and it should have been Kenny. That should have been

513
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 5: the equipment that he should have used.

514
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: And it was really bad.

515
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 5: But that was the first time that Kenny had to

516
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,719
Speaker 5: deal with death of a friend of a good friend.

517
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 5: And also he felt guilty that if he would have gone,

518
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 5: you know, Mondelki would have lived. And he and then

519
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 5: he took off. And I think now that I think

520
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 5: in in hindsight where him taking off. He took off

521
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 5: in his car and he was gone for like two

522
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 5: days after the funeral. Right after the funeral, nobody knew

523
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 5: where he was. Richie went out for like a day

524
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 5: looking for him. I think he ended up in Iowa

525
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 5: or somewhere.

526
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 7: He just ran.

527
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 5: He just kept running and running and running until he

528
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 5: probably ran out of money and gas and came back

529
00:29:53,320 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 5: and probably be the start of major issues because that

530
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 5: was hard on him, really really hard.

531
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 6: You know, I'm glad you brought up workout martial arts stuff,

532
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 6: because that's something I actually completely forgot about.

533
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: Well, how do you think I could have done half

534
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,239
Speaker 1: the shit I did if I didn't have all that

535
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: martial arts training. Well, that's what I want to talk

536
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: to mom about that I had years of martial arts training,

537
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: years martial arts training. I was a beast.

538
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 2: It was widely known around the family that Ken was

539
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: a fourth degree black belt. There were legends about his

540
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: prowess on the mat, how even defeated his own master

541
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 2: at one point. Even the style of martial arts he

542
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: practiced sounded exotic and dangerous to us as kids.

543
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: Was that Chung mu kwan was a really soft form.

544
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: It was it was comfortul it wasn't a hard form.

545
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: Caught it bullshit well, almost like a.

546
00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 2: Dance dance like movement. Chung mu kwan. I had never

547
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: heard of it before and never had a reason to

548
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: look into it until, of course, I started down this

549
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 2: insane family rabbit hole of mine. I wasn't expecting to

550
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,719
Speaker 2: find anything interesting at all, to be honest, but when

551
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 2: I learned the history of this mysterious brand of kung fu,

552
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: I was absolutely shocked at what I found.

553
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 10: Many students are attracted to Chung mu kwan because the

554
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 10: training looks impressive. The schools say that by developing a

555
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 10: strong mind and body, you not only learn self defense,

556
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 10: but also learn to understand yourself and find fue happiness.

557
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 10: A school brochure says Chung Mu Kwuan is an investment

558
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 10: in life.

559
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: I found this investigative news report from nineteen eighty nine

560
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: about Chung Mu Kwan. It's fascinating.

561
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 10: There are ten Chung Mu Kuan schools in the Chicago

562
00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 10: area and a dozen others across the country. They were

563
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 10: founded here in the late nineteen seventies by John C. Kim,

564
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 10: a former maintenance man who promotes him as a.

565
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 7: Martial arts master.

566
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 10: His followers say he has supernatural powers.

567
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 5: His powers are phenomenal.

568
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 8: They made him seem like a god to us.

569
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 10: We talked to dozens of former students and instructors who've

570
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 10: been with Chung Mu Kwan over the last twelve years.

571
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 10: Most of them asked us to disguise their identities. They

572
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 10: say they're afraid because the schools they were at thrived

573
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 10: on an atmosphere of intimidation and violence.

574
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 3: Our investigation found.

575
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 10: That some of the schools have also exploited students to

576
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 10: take their money and to take over their minds. That's

577
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 10: why experts call it a cult.

578
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: So not only is my dad and the mob, which

579
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,239
Speaker 2: is bad enough, by the way, he's also in some

580
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: goddamn kung fu mind control cult. Jesus fucking Christ. He's

581
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 2: either an evil genius or the unluckiest man alive.

582
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 10: Experts say that some Chung mu Quan students seem to

583
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 10: be subjected to a form of mind control that begins

584
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 10: the martial arts training, for example, constantly repeating a movement

585
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 10: or holding poses for long periods on orders from their instructor.

586
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: Okay, let's stop there for a second. Now, listen to

587
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 2: this clip for my dad. You would do a.

588
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: Form for an hour, hour and a half. It's all

589
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: you would do, is a form, A form? Is this movement?

590
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: So constant movement for an hour and a half.

591
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 11: What happens is that they go into an altered state

592
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 11: of consciousness. In that type of altered state, they're very

593
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 11: susceptible to suggestions. It's the same kind of thing that

594
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 11: takes place in a hypnotic trance.

595
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 2: Now, let's go back to episode one. Well, my dad

596
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: talks about mentally preparing himself for a hit.

597
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: I sit in my car and I do what I

598
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: always do. I breathe, I make myself aware. I heighten

599
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: my senses, my sight, my smell, my hearing. I don't

600
00:34:11,720 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: know how I do it, but I do it. As

601
00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: I'm listening to the music, I feel my senses start

602
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: to kick in. As they kick in, the moment arises.

603
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: The moment always hits me. I don't know how it

604
00:34:26,279 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: hits me, but I know when I'm ready for the.

605
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 2: Moment, and there it is. This whole time, I've been

606
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 2: struggling to understand just how he could take that enormous

607
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 2: leap from doorman to hip man, or how he could

608
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 2: jump back and forth so easily from mob life to

609
00:34:47,279 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 2: family life without us ever even coming close to knowing.

610
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,959
Speaker 11: What happens is that they go into an altered state

611
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 11: of consciousness. It's the same kind of thing that takes

612
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 11: place in a hypnotic trance.

613
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 2: Not a trance, not every trance. I think it was

614
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 2: the perfect storm of terrible childhood, abusive parents, hitting the

615
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 2: streets as a kid, no prospects finding a father figure,

616
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 2: which just happens to be in the outfit, and then

617
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 2: you introduce Chung Mu Kwan and it's meditative mind control techniques, but.

618
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: You know it taught to you know all the points,

619
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: all the all the all the points that can name kill,

620
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 1: temporarily put somebody out of business. I always had that advantage.

621
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: I had no fear at all, and that really got

622
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: me through a lot.

623
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 2: Next week on Crooked County.

624
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: He was fucking up made guy or not, he was

625
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: fucking up man, and eventually it was going to catch

626
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: up to him, but I took care of it myselfe.

627
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 5: No.

628
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: Crook County is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Tenderfoot

629
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 2: TV in association with Common Enemy. All episodes are written, produced,

630
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: and hosted by Me Kyle Tequila. Executive producers are Donald

631
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: Albright and Payne Lindsay. Original score by Makeup and Vanity Set.

632
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 2: Main title song is called Aloha by the band Starry Eyes,

633
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 2: and credit song is called no Show, also by the

634
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 2: band Starry Eyes. Sound mix by Cooper Skinner. Thank you

635
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: to Orrin Rosenbaum and the excellent team at UTA for

636
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 2: their support and to my fearless attorney, Wendy Bench for

637
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 2: her guidance. To stay updated on all things Crook County,

638
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: follow us on all socials at Crook County Podcast, or

639
00:36:58,279 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 2: leave us a voicemail by visiting crookcountypodcast dot com. For

640
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 2: more podcasts like Crook County, search Tenderfoot TV on your

641
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 2: favorite podcast app, or visit Tenderfoot dot tv. Thanks for listening.

642
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 2: The story continues next week.

643
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 8: Awesome message Joe five, I watch show.

644
00:37:47,000 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 9: Shower show. No no no no no no no no

645
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 9: no