Speaker 1: The following Here's a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys football clubs. Are you ready for
Speaker 1: a break? Yes? Are you ready for a break? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Ready for a break? Yeah, and so much for that.
Speaker 1: It's time for The Break on Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: with Nick Eatman, David Hellman, and bar Garcia and Derek Eagleton.
Speaker 1: It is Wednesday, February sixteenth, twenty twenty two, Season seventeen,
Speaker 1: episode number one oh four. Welcome to the latest edition
Speaker 1: of The Break. We are live from the SWBC Mortgage studios.
Speaker 1: At the start, We've got a lot we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about today. We're gonna finish up our conversation on the
Speaker 1: salary cap we started that last week. There will be
Speaker 1: more questions I have for these guys about guys that
Speaker 1: could be here and could be not here in the
Speaker 1: amount of niel take to do both. Before we get
Speaker 1: into that, though, I would get one to start first
Speaker 1: with a little opener here, And obviously we usually would
Speaker 1: give everybody an opportunity to talk about a sports topic
Speaker 1: from the previous week. But I think this week we
Speaker 1: got to talk about super Bowl. It was obviously a
Speaker 1: game that that was. I thought it was a good game.
Speaker 1: I thought it was a fun game. I know some
Speaker 1: people I've talked to they were like, yah, it's kind
Speaker 1: of boring. But I thought it was good. It was
Speaker 1: good defense. What were you gouts thoughts on the game?
Speaker 1: Just in general, Logan Wilson did nothing wrong. The refs
Speaker 1: completely botched the end of that game. It was not
Speaker 1: it was not defensive holding. They had called three flags
Speaker 1: all the way through that game, and the subsequent flags
Speaker 1: were penalties, but that was not and the Rams still
Speaker 1: would have had a fourth downd to try to score
Speaker 1: or convert. And I thought the refs completely botched what
Speaker 1: would have been otherwise a really dramatic moment, you know,
Speaker 1: to give the Rams first and goal on a BS
Speaker 1: call like that, I just thought tainted it. Obviously I'm
Speaker 1: a little biased. I wanted the Fingals to win. Just
Speaker 1: full disclosure, full disclosure. Yeah, I mean if if if
Speaker 1: I had really wanted the Rams to win, I would
Speaker 1: have had a reason why that was okay. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: Ramsey got face masked on the long touchdown to Higgins.
Speaker 1: I get it, but I just thought that kind of
Speaker 1: put a damper on you have tattooed his face on
Speaker 1: you your body, Joe. They wanted to know I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not tattooing another person on me. That's a lot
Speaker 1: bad idea. That's a lot unless it's like mom, like
Speaker 1: mom can get that kind of mona go there. But
Speaker 1: other than that, maybe Mom just don't. But I'm really
Speaker 1: happy for Odell, really happy for Andrew Whitworth. Way to
Speaker 1: go there, unless you guys on both squads like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the beauty of it. Yeah we got guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what do you think? Yeah, you know what. Some people
Speaker 1: didn't find it fun, and I get it, but it
Speaker 1: was fun to me. It was fun to see a
Speaker 1: different team on the Super Bowl and and it allows
Speaker 1: you to in your mind be like, Okay, well it
Speaker 1: could happen. We can see ourselves in there someday. You know,
Speaker 1: it's doing doing the Bengals got there, we're doing. I'm
Speaker 1: actually gonna ask that question, like did you come out
Speaker 1: of that game feeling better, worse or about the same
Speaker 1: as what you did at the end of the season, Like, man,
Speaker 1: maybe I could see the Cowboys here or I have
Speaker 1: I can't see any fat I can't even fathom the
Speaker 1: Cowboys being here, like, did it change anything for you, Jimmy.
Speaker 1: It was a mixture of both, because on one hand,
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, yes, it's absolutely doable, But on the
Speaker 1: other hand, it's like, damn, I feel like this was
Speaker 1: the year. You know, the Cowboys had shown so many things.
Speaker 1: Obviously not at the end of the year, but they
Speaker 1: had shown so much potential, and I really felt that
Speaker 1: this was our year if there was ever gonna be
Speaker 1: a year, and it did not happen. So personally, it
Speaker 1: was a mixture of both. But once again, you talk
Speaker 1: about defense and defenses winning championships for you, and we
Speaker 1: saw that with Aaron Donald, and it was just like, damn, Okay,
Speaker 1: we definitely need another step up on this defense. And
Speaker 1: I truly believe they were getting close to getting there,
Speaker 1: but we need a bad as defense any good quarterback.
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought it was the best ever. I mean,
Speaker 1: just a coloution of talent. Yeah, I mean, I'd like
Speaker 1: to start with and then and then Eminem comes in
Speaker 1: and fifty cent. I'm all in on that. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I just thought it was it was amazing,
Speaker 1: and I don't care what people say. I mean, I
Speaker 1: was arguing with people onto it, not really arguing because
Speaker 1: I was I said it was the best ever, and
Speaker 1: people said I was wrong, and I told him I
Speaker 1: wasn't asking. I mean right, I was my opinion. This
Speaker 1: is mean what in a question mark like best ever?
Speaker 1: Like not best ever? Because Dave knows this. I mean
Speaker 1: all that is in my wheelhouse and in the early
Speaker 1: nineties hip ho hop see. I think of that as
Speaker 1: more my wheelhouse. I mean never. That's what made it great.
Speaker 1: It was a combination of not not not not I
Speaker 1: mean Dre and Snoop no, but the era, like they
Speaker 1: didn't play early nineties stuff like he was playing stuff
Speaker 1: from two thousand and one, which is when I was
Speaker 1: in middle school high school. Loved it and yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: just saying. I mean, fifty cent in the club is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's definitely yeah. I mean I've Kendrick Lamar. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's really my wheelhouse. But you know, I mean we
Speaker 1: can share it. I thought it was awesome. As for
Speaker 1: the game, you know, the Cowboy. To win it, you've
Speaker 1: got to be like I mean, Matthew Stafford him, and
Speaker 1: look how many times they almost didn't get there. You know,
Speaker 1: they almost just lost that whole thing against the Rams,
Speaker 1: and then the forty nine ers were in control, and
Speaker 1: then the Mingals were in control. So to win it,
Speaker 1: win a Super Bowl, you've got to go three or
Speaker 1: four times. You've got to be like perfect and make
Speaker 1: all the plays against good teams. And the Cowboys only
Speaker 1: made the plays against a good team once and that
Speaker 1: was the Patriots. Before the Patriots even got it going,
Speaker 1: they were kind of bad before that, so they nedn't
Speaker 1: really beat a good team playing well all year, and
Speaker 1: you have to do it three or four times. So
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're really that close. And not
Speaker 1: only that, I think that game to me showed that
Speaker 1: you gotta be good, well really good. You also have
Speaker 1: to have some lucky moments. That that call, Dave, I
Speaker 1: think was a good That was a lucky moment for
Speaker 1: the Rams, because that was a very questionable call. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna say it was a wrong call because I
Speaker 1: think there's a there's case that technically it probably could
Speaker 1: have been a holding. But I do think that's a
Speaker 1: lucky break for the Rams. And I think in any
Speaker 1: any team is going to win a championship along the way,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have some lucky breaks that just are not
Speaker 1: about you. It's just a lucky break that happens, and
Speaker 1: that's how you get where you get Stafford through a
Speaker 1: duck to Jakoiski Tart in the NFC title game that
Speaker 1: got dropped. And if it doesn't, you're sitting here saying, like,
Speaker 1: rooms did all this, and we're so they fell so short,
Speaker 1: and this is why you don't go all in and
Speaker 1: do all this crazy stuff. And imagine that now we're building,
Speaker 1: we're building a narrative around how the Niners got it right.
Speaker 1: That's and I mean, you can always try to learn
Speaker 1: stuff from the Super Bowl teams, but I think you
Speaker 1: got to take it with a grain of salt too,
Speaker 1: because it takes so many breaks to pull that off.
Speaker 1: It absolutely does. And I want to say, like not
Speaker 1: to be glass half empty, but I think Cowboy fans
Speaker 1: buy and large are still pretty pissed off. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and rightfully so. And so when I see the Bengals
Speaker 1: in the Super Bowl, it actually makes me feel dejected
Speaker 1: because I look, I love Joe Burrow, but I'm just
Speaker 1: like this, say, this is not a super Bowl team.
Speaker 1: Like they got there with a point margin of thirteen
Speaker 1: points in the playoffs, Like by the skin of their teeth.
Speaker 1: Joe got sacked like eighteen times in the playoffs. That's
Speaker 1: not an exaggeration. And I'm just like these guys there,
Speaker 1: I'm all credit to them, they got there, but like
Speaker 1: that is not what a Super Bowl team traditionally looks like.
Speaker 1: And I just look at that and I'm like, cowboys
Speaker 1: can't pull this out of their butts once in twenty
Speaker 1: six years. Even they've had great teams make the playoffs.
Speaker 1: They've kind of snuck into the playoffs a few times,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. They've never they've never caught that lightning in
Speaker 1: a bottle when they needed to. And I'm just like,
Speaker 1: if these guys can do it, it's a matchup of
Speaker 1: two or four seeds. Hasn't happened in forever, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: we're sitting here wondering why a team that's been the one, two,
Speaker 1: three seed can't pull it off. It's just like, my god, man,
Speaker 1: so like it's almost more statistically improbable that you don't
Speaker 1: ever string something together than it is that you do
Speaker 1: because the other teams that are in the same boat
Speaker 1: with you, they're teams that have just been traditionally bad,
Speaker 1: like they don't make playoff appearances. Right, That's the part
Speaker 1: that's weird is when you look at the Cowboys, they're
Speaker 1: an anomaly from the standpoint of a team that regularly
Speaker 1: has been in the mix, but for whatever reason, for
Speaker 1: twenty six years, hasn't won champions been to a championship game.
Speaker 1: Like it tells me like they've part of that. They've
Speaker 1: been just unlucky. They don't get those kind of breaks
Speaker 1: for whatever moment, and in those moments where a break
Speaker 1: here or break there makes a difference, they don't get
Speaker 1: those breaks, and by quite frankly, they haven't been good
Speaker 1: enough and whatever reason. You can look around too, Like
Speaker 1: the cruelty of it is like the I mean, the
Speaker 1: Bengals are in that club right now, but the Panthers
Speaker 1: stand out to me, the Buccaneers. Tampa's a little different
Speaker 1: because they signed Tom Brady, but even like even franchises
Speaker 1: that you typically think of as like kind of sorry,
Speaker 1: like the Panthers are either pretty bad or they're good
Speaker 1: enough to be in the Super Bowl, and they've made
Speaker 1: it twice over the last twenty years, just two more
Speaker 1: times than the Cowboys have, and you're just like, they
Speaker 1: can't do it. Either way. They can't be dominant the
Speaker 1: way that these perennial playoff contenders are and they can't
Speaker 1: pull a rabbit out of their hat either and it
Speaker 1: just it sucks. It's frustrating. Yeah, Nick, what do you
Speaker 1: think about DeMarcus ware not getting into the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: I was surprised, obviously, until I've you know, called around
Speaker 1: and figured out, like what was what's going on? And
Speaker 1: I realized that the committee is making a big change,
Speaker 1: and they took a stance this year to let everyone
Speaker 1: know that they want they want to differentiate between first
Speaker 1: ballot Hall of Famers and Hall of Famers, and they
Speaker 1: made a point this year to get some other guys
Speaker 1: in there that they thought was deserving, and they didn't
Speaker 1: put DeMarcus in that category. And so it's unfortunate because
Speaker 1: it was going to be a bad Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: class if he was in there, and for him not
Speaker 1: to put in there like that, I just think it
Speaker 1: was terrible, you know, But I just don't understand the
Speaker 1: difference if you're a Hall of Famer or a Hall
Speaker 1: of Famer. But then again, this is coming from the
Speaker 1: person like when I graduated high school, you know, it
Speaker 1: was just a cap and gown. But then some people
Speaker 1: have like a little yellow tassels, you know, to show
Speaker 1: that they were with honors. I mean I didn't have
Speaker 1: that obviously. I'm just like, what's the difference, and we're
Speaker 1: all graduating here, but like these people were honors. I
Speaker 1: feel like that's what this is. It was like, well,
Speaker 1: you have a really gold platinum, gold jacket. You just
Speaker 1: have a gold jacket, platinum goal, I think, which it's
Speaker 1: really disappointing. I thought he deserved to be in. I
Speaker 1: was honestly shocked, Like I kept I watched it live
Speaker 1: when they brought them all out, and like you know,
Speaker 1: they cut to the presenter first, and they cut to
Speaker 1: Emmett and I was like, okay, Emmet's introducing somebody. It's
Speaker 1: got to be DeMarcus Ware and it was like a
Speaker 1: ref or something, and then like they got are you
Speaker 1: kidding And they got to the end. I was like, um,
Speaker 1: I still haven't heard Demarcus's name. Like it took probably
Speaker 1: thirty seconds for me to finally accept that he wasn't
Speaker 1: getting called. Said all of that, Like to your point,
Speaker 1: if you're a Hall of Famer, you're a Hall of Famer,
Speaker 1: and I guarantee you that was the committee's mindset in
Speaker 1: the opposite direction. And they're like, he'll get in next year.
Speaker 1: What's the difference. These guys might not get in ever,
Speaker 1: And I think that's what we just saw. They're like,
Speaker 1: let's they cleared the backlog. They were like, these guys
Speaker 1: have been stuck for a while. People have been arguing
Speaker 1: on behalf of Leroy Butler and Tony Boselli is another one.
Speaker 1: Like they people have been arguing about these guys for
Speaker 1: a decade. And I think they were like, and you
Speaker 1: can disagree with me if you want, but the committee
Speaker 1: was like, they're deserving, let's get them in. DeMarcus Ware
Speaker 1: will be in. And it was validated. This was just
Speaker 1: my opinion and it was validated the next day when
Speaker 1: Rick Goslin, who's like the godfather of Hall of Fame voters,
Speaker 1: he wrote that column basically like his column was like,
Speaker 1: DeMarcus Ware's time is coming. These guys need to go in.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, disagree, but okay, And so I don't
Speaker 1: know he'll be in next year. Let's talk about Leroy
Speaker 1: Butler for a second. Yeah, because this is act feel
Speaker 1: on that. Yeah, but this is actually you should be No,
Speaker 1: you should be happy. It's a good But what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: that's why they have the mixed feelings. Yeah, he's not
Speaker 1: a better player than Darren Woodson never has never, never
Speaker 1: has been, I mean never will be, obviously, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He wasn't in the same category. But they voted him.
Speaker 1: Those voters voted him at All Decade Team for the nineties.
Speaker 1: So he had to go in before Woodson. So Woodson's
Speaker 1: ever going to get in. John Lynch had to get in,
Speaker 1: Lorie Butler had to get in in their mind, and
Speaker 1: so now this opens the door. I think for Woodson
Speaker 1: more than than you you know, you would think it would.
Speaker 1: It's the most confident I've ever felt that wood He's
Speaker 1: gonna get in. Yeah. Maybe maybe not in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: but like I think you can grease those wheels now,
Speaker 1: which is cool. It's just weird for me. I look
Speaker 1: at the list of guys and I think, particularly there
Speaker 1: were two names on this list this year that to
Speaker 1: me are more deserving of the Hall of Fame. And
Speaker 1: I understand they're like they're trying to get guys in
Speaker 1: that that are deserving. I guess but I'm always like,
Speaker 1: take them and put them on a list of best
Speaker 1: to worst, and then the ones out of the best
Speaker 1: in that group get to go. Because I think DeMarcus
Speaker 1: Ware and I think another travisty was was Patrick Willis.
Speaker 1: Patrick Willis, in time he played the NFL, was considered,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, among the very best linebackers. And there
Speaker 1: was a period of time there where he was the
Speaker 1: best linebacker middle linebacker in the NFL. And to me,
Speaker 1: that's what a Hall of Famer is. And so I'm
Speaker 1: just I don't really know. Obviously I'm not in those meetings.
Speaker 1: I don't know how they talk about all this stuff,
Speaker 1: but to me, I think so often they get caught
Speaker 1: up in all the other things. Who do these guys
Speaker 1: back on? Do we need to get? Me? Like, just
Speaker 1: make it simple? Who are the best players? And listen
Speaker 1: out in order of the best players, and the top
Speaker 1: number of them get in that. That to me is
Speaker 1: the best and most simple way to do this and
Speaker 1: do it right. You know how long we've been doing
Speaker 1: this show is seventeen years, and I'll tell you to
Speaker 1: put it in perspective. We were on doing a pre
Speaker 1: draft show one time before the Draft show. We were
Speaker 1: just doing our show. And trust me, I'm wrong about
Speaker 1: a lot of people. But I was like, the cow
Speaker 1: Boys needs to draft Devin Hester. Yeah, second or third round,
Speaker 1: because remember that this guy will make a difference. And
Speaker 1: I think I said third round, and he went in
Speaker 1: the second round, so like that wasn't gonna happen. But
Speaker 1: like I came to my office when he got drafted, like, oh,
Speaker 1: my guy's gone. Yeah. Of course. I also was like
Speaker 1: I did not want to Marcus Ware, so I just
Speaker 1: thought Derek Johnson was a way better pick than DeMarcus Ware.
Speaker 1: And he was pretty good, but he was it was
Speaker 1: a good player, had a good career. I don't know
Speaker 1: if and Devin Hester belongs in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: I agree, And again when you talk about it, if
Speaker 1: you say, man, this guy changed. It was the very
Speaker 1: best at what he did in the time he was
Speaker 1: in the NFL. Then to me, that's easy. Those are
Speaker 1: the guys that should be first ballot, right because like
Speaker 1: they they are guys that are that were recognized by
Speaker 1: their peers and by media and whoever else in the
Speaker 1: time they were playing. They were among the very best
Speaker 1: in the league every year. I just I agree, and
Speaker 1: I think it gets a little convoluted sometimes, but I
Speaker 1: also think that's it's that's a really hard job because
Speaker 1: everybody's got an opinion about this, Like Baselli has been
Speaker 1: a flashpoint player for years. He only played ninety one
Speaker 1: NFL games, but he's a three time All Pro, and
Speaker 1: anybody who's familiar with that era, especially like watching the Jags,
Speaker 1: like anyone will tell you he was the best tackling
Speaker 1: football for a four year period, which willis is kind
Speaker 1: of similar. He only played like seven years, but he
Speaker 1: was the absolute best almost the whole time he did it.
Speaker 1: And so parsing all of that out is tough. So
Speaker 1: I don't envy those guys, and it's disappointing for where
Speaker 1: but I all, like, I'll bet you twenty dollars today
Speaker 1: he's in at this time next year, So I think
Speaker 1: this time last week, I think we all probably would
Speaker 1: have bet made that same bit, yeah that he was
Speaker 1: gonna be in, and he wasn't. And so I just
Speaker 1: I just hate when they put it off like, oh,
Speaker 1: he'll get in. I just think if a guys do
Speaker 1: and ready, he should be in. Like I just think
Speaker 1: that you wait to five years for that period and
Speaker 1: then if you're ready and you're the guy, you should
Speaker 1: get it. He's absolutely got a resume deserving of being
Speaker 1: first ballot. And Jared Allen didn't get in either, did
Speaker 1: he And that's another guy that probably has a first
Speaker 1: ballot resume in my opinion, maybe not as good as Wears,
Speaker 1: but you could make the case. I mean, honestly, it's
Speaker 1: it's hard. I think you're right. It's hard when you
Speaker 1: get to this point because most of the guys that
Speaker 1: were finalists, you could make an argument, a pretty credible
Speaker 1: argument that they belong in the Hall of Fame. The
Speaker 1: question just becomes who gets in what year? And that's
Speaker 1: why I'm like, just take it in order. Who's the
Speaker 1: best players, and the best players that year get in.
Speaker 1: If that means you're never among the best that year,
Speaker 1: that probably also tells you something that maybe they're not
Speaker 1: Hall of Famers. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you.
Speaker 1: What I don't like is this bubbling conversation that Stafford's
Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer now that he won a Super Bowl. Mike,
Speaker 1: you gotta be kidding me. I mean, his career is
Speaker 1: not over. Maybe he will be by the time it's over,
Speaker 1: but him winning that game on Sunday does not put
Speaker 1: him in the Hall of Fame. And let you hear
Speaker 1: Richard Sherman. Yeah, and I agreed with everything he said, like,
Speaker 1: at no point have you even been one of the
Speaker 1: three best quarterbacks in the league. Yeah. So anyway, all right,
Speaker 1: we're gonna take our first break when we come back.
Speaker 1: We're gonna get into this conversation of the salary cap.
Speaker 1: We've got a lot of questions for these guys. We
Speaker 1: started that last week. We talked about most of the
Speaker 1: offensive guys. We got a couple offensive guys and some
Speaker 1: defensive guys. We need to get to how to that
Speaker 1: when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot
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Speaker 1: Rustlemania Welcome Back. Here is a second segment of the
Speaker 1: Break Life in s WBC Mortgage Studios at the Star.
Speaker 1: We're going to get to our conversation on the cap
Speaker 1: before we do that, though I don't know if we
Speaker 1: are because I take a whole segment and then we'll
Speaker 1: do a segment on the cap. But we do need
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about a conversation that happened yesterday.
Speaker 1: I think it happened yesterday. Mike McCarthy was on the
Speaker 1: Rich eisenshow gave a really interesting some really interesting comments
Speaker 1: and kind of alluded to some stuff that our own
Speaker 1: Dave Hellman was reporting from the Senior Bowl and his
Speaker 1: talks with Jerry Jones. So let's Dave, why don't you
Speaker 1: kind of walk us through and set this up for us?
Speaker 1: And then we got some clips who want to want
Speaker 1: to talk about. Yeah, So Mike went on Rich Eisen's
Speaker 1: show yesterday and I mean they talked about a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff. But Rich Eisen cited our story which I
Speaker 1: wrote on Dallas Cowboys dot com can give you a
Speaker 1: shout out by name, which I don't. I'm not. I'm
Speaker 1: not in it for the cloud. I'm in it for
Speaker 1: the love of the game. Um, but interesting, Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you follow the Cowboys, you're probably aware
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago at the Senior Bowl, Jerry
Speaker 1: Jones told myself and Jerry Epstein, he just he said
Speaker 1: a lot of interesting things, namely that you know, maybe
Speaker 1: Dan Quinn would like to be the head coach of
Speaker 1: the Cowboys one day. Mike McCarthy won't be the head
Speaker 1: coach forever, by the way, No, that and I thought
Speaker 1: Rich Eisen did a great job of framing it, and
Speaker 1: that was the point of my story. He said a
Speaker 1: bunch of things that are factually correct. Still weird to
Speaker 1: hear the owner and general manager of a team that
Speaker 1: just made the playoffs say them out loud, like you
Speaker 1: generally don't start talking about the successor for a coach
Speaker 1: that you're happy with. So anyway, eisn't asked McCarthy about
Speaker 1: all this. I thought he was shockingly transparent. Beam I
Speaker 1: would if you can queue up the one about d
Speaker 1: Q McCarthy. This is McCarthy talking about his relationship with
Speaker 1: Dan and them talking to each other about people speculating
Speaker 1: about Dan taking his job. You know, we talked about
Speaker 1: him staying here. Uh, you know, long before he even
Speaker 1: took it, took the interview. No, obviously when he took
Speaker 1: the interview, and then this, you know, this narrative broke out.
Speaker 1: I think it in reflection to the relationship to Dan.
Speaker 1: I do have you know he just said Hey, man,
Speaker 1: if I'm not comfortable with this narrative, you know, if
Speaker 1: you really feel like I need to take one of
Speaker 1: his jobs, you know, just be honest with him. And
Speaker 1: we kind of laughed about it, and I just said, Dan,
Speaker 1: ten to twelve years ago, i'd tell you please get
Speaker 1: the hell out of here. I don't want to deal
Speaker 1: with this. But three l of it is I'm about winning.
Speaker 1: He's about winning, and the best thing for the Cowboys
Speaker 1: is for Dan Quinn to be here, which I love
Speaker 1: the transparency first of all, just like, yeah, we've talked
Speaker 1: about this and the idea that Dan was like, Man,
Speaker 1: I can get out of your hair if this is
Speaker 1: gonna be a problem for you, And McCarthy was like,
Speaker 1: I can handle it, which I'm going to remember I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like that could be famous
Speaker 1: last words, to be honest with you. Just depending on
Speaker 1: how the season goes, like unless he's okay with whatever outcome,
Speaker 1: like that might all be part. This is a veteran coach,
Speaker 1: he's won a championship, like he's he's coached at two
Speaker 1: of the most iconic brands in the National Football League.
Speaker 1: He might be like, I'm not getting slide checked by
Speaker 1: any of this. If at whatever point they make a decision,
Speaker 1: I'm not the coach. I'm good to walk away and
Speaker 1: be fine with that. I guess my point is like,
Speaker 1: it's easy to say that in February, but when if
Speaker 1: you're three and four in October and the noise is
Speaker 1: just beating down on you from all directions, and you're like, right,
Speaker 1: he's just killing you every day. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: and then okay, and then we'll do another one. Which
Speaker 1: I thought this was great. Rich Eisen. He was like,
Speaker 1: you know, have you have you talked to Jerry Jones
Speaker 1: about how he kind of dangled your feet over the
Speaker 1: fire like this, And he's like, oh yeah, And he
Speaker 1: brought up Dan and Sean Payton by name, so we
Speaker 1: know now thanks to Mike McCarthy that he has talked
Speaker 1: to Jerry Jones about So you know, you're just corton
Speaker 1: retired coaches for my job, give this a listen. But
Speaker 1: we talked about it. We talked about Dan's situation definitely, um,
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about Sean Payton's narrative. Also, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's been discussed. You have to discussed that
Speaker 1: with him what is what is is anything you can
Speaker 1: share that you have? Really the just the conversation was,
Speaker 1: you know you and I are in this, you know,
Speaker 1: back to back and um, you know it's a partnership
Speaker 1: and you know, just focus on what we need to
Speaker 1: do moving forward. Um. And you know, and he made
Speaker 1: some you know, personal comments about you know, how he
Speaker 1: feels about up as you know that's really for him
Speaker 1: and eye. But yeah, I'm very very comfortable with our
Speaker 1: relationship and our dialogue. I mean, it's uh, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, we both want the same thing
Speaker 1: and it's uh, and it's you know, to win a
Speaker 1: world championship and Andy and definitely the narratives are unusual. Um,
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, I think you
Speaker 1: have to You've got to trust the relationships and in
Speaker 1: a communication and a connection that you have. I'm dying
Speaker 1: to know what Jerry's personal comments about how he felt
Speaker 1: about it that Mike didn't want to share work. That's
Speaker 1: my main takeaway from that. Like what did Jerry say
Speaker 1: He's like winner, winner else? Right? I think that like
Speaker 1: his opinion about Sean Payton, like whatever Jerry's thoughts about that.
Speaker 1: But I don't know I just I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I ask for the dan Quinn stuff. I think that
Speaker 1: he has to. Um, you know, if he doesn't go
Speaker 1: to the super Bowl or to the championship game, I
Speaker 1: think he's probably not going to be the coach here anyways.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't really matter. He's got to get there.
Speaker 1: That's the way that he keeps his job is probably
Speaker 1: to have success that this team hasn't had in so
Speaker 1: many years. He said the word narrative a hundred times. Well,
Speaker 1: the narrative is that this team hasn't won a super
Speaker 1: Bowl or even been to Super Bowl in twenty six years.
Speaker 1: So that's the only narrative that matters. You fix that then,
Speaker 1: and the best way to do that is to have
Speaker 1: dan Quinn here. So I mean, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know what else I mean, because because he could say, well,
Speaker 1: go somewhere else. If you don't get it done, then
Speaker 1: either he comes back or someone else's the coach. So
Speaker 1: so the best way, and he said it, the best
Speaker 1: way for them to have success is for them both
Speaker 1: to be here. Yeah, let me ask you guys this question.
Speaker 1: And I feel free to say, you know, I really
Speaker 1: don't feel comfortable answering it. But what do you think
Speaker 1: was his motivation behind doing this, because again, he doesn't
Speaker 1: have to meet with the media, This was something that
Speaker 1: he did carry for saying it or Mike Mike from
Speaker 1: Mike actually saying yes, Rich, I'll come on your show,
Speaker 1: knowing that this would probably be part of the versation
Speaker 1: and in two in sharing at least some of the
Speaker 1: details of some of this stuff that before, like you said, Dave,
Speaker 1: we didn't know something. We had not had a confirmation
Speaker 1: of some of this stuff until he mentioned it. And
Speaker 1: definitely the comment that he made about Dan and him
Speaker 1: and Dan having the conversation like do you really want
Speaker 1: me to leave? Like, what do you think is the
Speaker 1: motivation that he's of him actually being that transparent with
Speaker 1: the media on this, probably getting out in front of it,
Speaker 1: and well, not really getting out in front of it,
Speaker 1: because Jerry just lobbed that into the news cycle on
Speaker 1: his own. But I do think I think it helps
Speaker 1: or does something to just acknowledge it and again that
Speaker 1: degree of transparency, like, yeah, Dan and I have a
Speaker 1: good enough relationship that we talked about him maybe even
Speaker 1: leaving to spare me the problems of this speculation and
Speaker 1: I think at the very least, the goal, I think
Speaker 1: is at least to dispel the notion that everybody's walking
Speaker 1: around with a knife behind their back, you know, like
Speaker 1: Dan Quinn's just waiting for him to turn around so
Speaker 1: he can get in there and take the job, and
Speaker 1: so to at least present the idea that there's like
Speaker 1: a unified front between him and Dan and him and Jerry, like, yes,
Speaker 1: I've talked to Jerry about Sean Payton sitting out there,
Speaker 1: like I get it, and to Nick's point, we gotta win. Um.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if it, I know for a
Speaker 1: fact doesn't change anything because people are gonna talk about
Speaker 1: this all year, but to at least kind of be
Speaker 1: transparent about like, look, yeah, I got it. This is
Speaker 1: part of the landscape of coaching the Dallas Cowboys, which
Speaker 1: good on you for realizing it. I don't know, at least,
Speaker 1: like I said, it's not gonna make it go away,
Speaker 1: but at least he's kind of admitting that he's got
Speaker 1: his blinders off, which Jason Garrett would never Jason Garrett
Speaker 1: would be like, what are you talking about? Like, and
Speaker 1: I don't think that helps anybody there? Are you with
Speaker 1: a smile like, yeah, I don't think I know what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Yeah, I think. Oh I'm not answering
Speaker 1: that question, okay, because you and you don't want me
Speaker 1: to answer, so I trust now I want you to no, no, no,
Speaker 1: Now going for the break. I just want to hear
Speaker 1: the break answering why he did that, because yeah, chicken,
Speaker 1: oh god, please stop stop stop, please stop? No stop stop.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about it in the break. Reason, we will
Speaker 1: talk about it in the break, and then I will
Speaker 1: let you guys know, yes, this is appropriate for the air,
Speaker 1: or maybe it's not appropriate for the air, but yeah,
Speaker 1: let's let's what are you thinking, well, I mean I
Speaker 1: just about to say exactly what you would think. You
Speaker 1: probably No, No, I just think that. I mean, once
Speaker 1: you start hearing so much things from outside, whether you
Speaker 1: want to say you don't listen to outside noise or whatever,
Speaker 1: that's a lot. We we're all humans. It happens, it
Speaker 1: does get to you at some point. So I think
Speaker 1: it's just the combination of different things. I mean, we eve,
Speaker 1: whoever watched the NFL onners, I mean, you heard the
Speaker 1: joke and they put Dak Prescott on good point there,
Speaker 1: so level of you hearing so many things and you
Speaker 1: being now kind of turning into a joke. I mean
Speaker 1: I would do the same exact thing. I would show
Speaker 1: up on an interview, speak my mine up, say you know,
Speaker 1: we're very open about the situation. I mean, my McCarthy
Speaker 1: is not blind, he's not deaf, he's not dumb either.
Speaker 1: He sees what's happening. So it just kind of takes
Speaker 1: the fire a little bit. It's not gonna turn it
Speaker 1: off or anything, but at least everyone hears it that.
Speaker 1: He's very well aware of it. He's hurt, he's had
Speaker 1: those conversations with Jerry Jones, with dan Quinn. And at
Speaker 1: the same time, I think it's another thing of like,
Speaker 1: you know, he's a man, and man are competitive. He's
Speaker 1: in a very competitive industry, very competitive sport. So I
Speaker 1: don't think this is a situation that if ever it
Speaker 1: came out about dan quinn living or whatever, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: my McCarthy was scared of dan Quinn taking his job.
Speaker 1: At some point it's like, no, Okay, yeah, of course
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stay here. Of course i'm gonna say I
Speaker 1: can do this job. Of Course I'm gonna compete and
Speaker 1: do the best that I can do to show you
Speaker 1: what I got, and if he fails at it, guess
Speaker 1: he got somebody else. I can't take it from him,
Speaker 1: but I think that it was great for him to
Speaker 1: do that, and it was needed rather than go into
Speaker 1: a whole new season with all this speculation and him
Speaker 1: getting bombarded every time at a press conference. So I
Speaker 1: applaud him for actually going out there and saying the
Speaker 1: things that he did. Yeah, I agree with you, I
Speaker 1: think sometimes not sometimes. I'm a big believer in all
Speaker 1: the time, control what you can control, which also includes
Speaker 1: the narrative. So if there's something out there that's being
Speaker 1: talked about that you're a part of, and you have
Speaker 1: an opportunity to get in front of microphone and tell
Speaker 1: your thoughts on it, then do that. Speak whatever is
Speaker 1: the truth that you know it to be and whatever
Speaker 1: it is that you want people to know about the situation.
Speaker 1: Be willing to do that, especially in this organization, because
Speaker 1: as we saw, Jerry got out there and Jerry said
Speaker 1: what he thought. So if Mike says nothing, then it
Speaker 1: kind of just gets left as well. Mike doesn't have
Speaker 1: any thoughts on this, or he's afraid to say what
Speaker 1: he's thinking. So I think it was a situation where
Speaker 1: he could get out there and just kind of and
Speaker 1: take control of his own narrative to some degree, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to necessarily match up with everybody else.
Speaker 1: It's just his thoughts on the situation. Yeah, I thought,
Speaker 1: I thought that's probably the best you could do with
Speaker 1: a not good situation. Yeah, I mean he said it.
Speaker 1: We didn't play the clip, but he said earlier in
Speaker 1: the interview, like, of course, I wish we were talking
Speaker 1: about anything but this, And he also said, this is
Speaker 1: not something I've ever dealt with before. Yeah, he made
Speaker 1: it clear. There was there were little moments in there
Speaker 1: where he said things that it seemed like he was
Speaker 1: making it clear, Yeah, this is abnormal. I'm having to
Speaker 1: adapt to it. But this is the Cowboys. He made
Speaker 1: that very clear throughout. The Packers are certainly one of
Speaker 1: the biggest, most iconic brands in the league, but they
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess the Aaron Rodgers circus last year
Speaker 1: was a taste for them of what this is like
Speaker 1: every year. But by and large, like when even the
Speaker 1: coach of the Packers, like Mike McCarthy, used to just
Speaker 1: disappear every offseason, like you get. You have that luxury
Speaker 1: when you coach the Packers, unless your Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: quarterback gets mad about something and turns it into a
Speaker 1: six month news cycle. But that's not the norm in
Speaker 1: Green Bay. This stuff happens every year. So yeah, good
Speaker 1: for him for adapting to it. Another part is that,
Speaker 1: you know, I said this earlier that I don't know
Speaker 1: how close they are to being able to be, you know, perfect,
Speaker 1: to win three or four games in a row. We
Speaker 1: haven't seen that. But you know, when you look around
Speaker 1: the NFC and you look at all, right, who's who's
Speaker 1: coming back and who has a chance to do something?
Speaker 1: Even with all the free agents that they could lose,
Speaker 1: the Cowboys should be right there at the end with
Speaker 1: the chance to go. And that's all you want is
Speaker 1: a chance. Um, And I think I think that they have.
Speaker 1: I think you said it the other day, Dave. When
Speaker 1: you look around the NFC, there's other teams with bigger
Speaker 1: question marks than even the Cowboys have, And the Cowboys
Speaker 1: were a good team last year. They're gonna lose some guys,
Speaker 1: but they're gonna they're gonna probably keep some. They're gonna
Speaker 1: probably they're going to bring in a couple guys that
Speaker 1: are gonna help them. I just know that. I just
Speaker 1: know dank Win will do that. If we're being real,
Speaker 1: lay that's the draft. That's That's what I find disconcerting.
Speaker 1: Is like just on paper, the cow I mean, you
Speaker 1: can roll your eyes if you want to, but on paper,
Speaker 1: the Cowboys are in as good of a spot to
Speaker 1: roll over their momentum and be a good team next year.
Speaker 1: Like the Packers might lose Aaron Rodgers, the Bucks already
Speaker 1: lost Tom Brady, the Saints lost Sean Payton. I don't
Speaker 1: know why I included the Saints in there. They weren't
Speaker 1: even good last year. The ramp I mean, Aaron Donald
Speaker 1: might retire. Sean McVay, there are retirement rumors about him,
Speaker 1: which is weird to me. I heard, yeah, I was like, what,
Speaker 1: San Francisco's probably gonna trade their starting quarterback, which you
Speaker 1: can argue how good he actually is, but that they're
Speaker 1: gonna they'll be different. They're gonna move forward with a
Speaker 1: guy that's never really done it before. Problem Minnesota's got
Speaker 1: a new coach. Like you start going down the list
Speaker 1: of all the teams that were in the hunt, in
Speaker 1: the mix, of playoff all that stuff. They're all gonna
Speaker 1: have different thing a lot of them will. But the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: because of who they are and because of stuff like this,
Speaker 1: are going to be in this firestorm that is going
Speaker 1: to make it more difficult than it needs to be
Speaker 1: to just focus on getting better. And that's frustrating, but
Speaker 1: it is what it is. Yeah, Parcels talked about it
Speaker 1: when he got here. He said, you know, it's playing
Speaker 1: working at the Cowboys coaching playing. You have to be
Speaker 1: ready for it. It's the big stage because it is
Speaker 1: that's where like it is a it is a it's
Speaker 1: got a big light shining on it at all times,
Speaker 1: and so there's always going to be extra stuff outside
Speaker 1: of just football that you got to deal with if
Speaker 1: you're going to play and coach here. This goes against
Speaker 1: I know, I'm just shouting into the void. It's not
Speaker 1: going to happen, But I'd love to see an offseason
Speaker 1: where the Cowboys losing the playoffs and then just sort
Speaker 1: of fade away into the ether for six months and
Speaker 1: come back at training camp like, Okay, we're ready to
Speaker 1: We're going to try to be better this year. Like
Speaker 1: it's never gonna happen that way. Instead, you're gonna have
Speaker 1: the GM and the coach going back and forth about
Speaker 1: whether he'll be the coach here next year. It's just
Speaker 1: all right, wild, we're gonna take our final break. When
Speaker 1: we come back, we are going to have some cap talk.
Speaker 1: We got some some guys that you talk about that
Speaker 1: are that will impact the cap whether they're here or not.
Speaker 1: We'll do that when we come right back. This is
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Speaker 1: Back to the Break. I'm finding this read about Esseler.
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Speaker 1: for you. Seymour do more Esler Welcome Back. It is
Speaker 1: a final segment of the Break. Life in SWBC more
Speaker 1: each studios at the Star, Let's talk some cap salary cap.
Speaker 1: Last week we got started, we talked about the big names,
Speaker 1: a lot of the big names. You got your Marii
Speaker 1: Coopers and your to Marcus Lawrences and and we kind
Speaker 1: of got through all of that at this one. I
Speaker 1: think is an interesting little take because it's not a
Speaker 1: move you have to make, and it doesn't really wouldn't
Speaker 1: necessarily in none of these moves necessarily will save you
Speaker 1: a ton of money, but they could be bits of money.
Speaker 1: And I say bits of money. I know that's gonna
Speaker 1: sound weird because we're talking millions of dollars, but it
Speaker 1: could be money that if you make a few of
Speaker 1: these moves all added together, it actually could be a
Speaker 1: significant amount of money for the Cowboys against their Caps.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the cornerback position right now. He
Speaker 1: got a guy who's gonna be entering his second year
Speaker 1: in Kelvin Joseph. I would say we probably would all
Speaker 1: agree that he had some moments this year where he
Speaker 1: flashed where you thought it a pretty good player. That
Speaker 1: all being said, do you is he reliable enough for you,
Speaker 1: whether that be on the field or off the field,
Speaker 1: is he reliable for enough for you at this point
Speaker 1: for you to consider cutting either Anthony Brown or Jordan
Speaker 1: Lewis to save some money. I'm not trying to hate
Speaker 1: on Kelvin. I think it's a stretch to say that
Speaker 1: he even flashed. Really, yes, I think he got on
Speaker 1: the field at the end of the season and seemed
Speaker 1: to hold up pretty well. Like he played against Arizona.
Speaker 1: He did all right, had a chance at a pick,
Speaker 1: and then he got to play in the JV game
Speaker 1: against the Eagles, and he played like seventy snaps and
Speaker 1: was fine. I don't know if that's enough to say
Speaker 1: that he flashed. I thought, I don't. I'm not down
Speaker 1: on him at all. Do you just to clarify that,
Speaker 1: do you think he was better or worse or the
Speaker 1: same as what you would expect to see from Anthony Brown.
Speaker 1: I don't think that it's nearly enough of a sample
Speaker 1: size to compare to guys that played like a thousand snaps.
Speaker 1: I mean, Anthony Brown was out there every week, and
Speaker 1: Jordan was for the most part as well. This was
Speaker 1: his most involved season ever. And so you say something
Speaker 1: just combining that with again, you hate on ab all
Speaker 1: you want. You can hate on Jordan all you want.
Speaker 1: They were serviceable, I would say, at or near replacement level,
Speaker 1: some weeks above, some weeks maybe a little bit below.
Speaker 1: But they were serviceable guys by NFL standards. They're not
Speaker 1: making enough money that they're contract is like blinking at me,
Speaker 1: you know, like every year you're like, whoof that is
Speaker 1: a contract that is not living up to what it
Speaker 1: needs to be. They are performing right at what you
Speaker 1: expect for the money the Cowboys gave them, So I
Speaker 1: just I don't see a reason to tinker with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's hard to compare anybody. But when you
Speaker 1: think about Treyvon Diggs and his second year, entering his
Speaker 1: second year, he got to play a lot more in
Speaker 1: his rookie year, and you felt really good about him
Speaker 1: going into the second year based off of what we've seen.
Speaker 1: But Kelvin Josephs he didn't give us that because for
Speaker 1: whatever the reason, because he wasn't good enough really to
Speaker 1: beat out Anthony Brown or Jordan Lewis and of course Diggs.
Speaker 1: But also when he was there, he did okay, you know,
Speaker 1: he got kicked out of a game too for like
Speaker 1: a fight. I mean like he just well, whatever the reason,
Speaker 1: he just didn't get a chance to show a lot.
Speaker 1: And so it's a big offseason for him. I mean,
Speaker 1: but you said, are you comfortable and it may be
Speaker 1: a situation where you have to do it anyways, you're
Speaker 1: just you're you're you're not going to be comfortable. It's
Speaker 1: like I guess the people that that bungee jump, I mean,
Speaker 1: they're gonna do it because they have they feel like
Speaker 1: they have to, but they're probably not comfortable doing it.
Speaker 1: But then hopefully it works out. That's that's what it is.
Speaker 1: I mean, you might have to cut one of those
Speaker 1: guys Lewis or Brown and say, well, we drafted this guy,
Speaker 1: he's gonna have to play. Doesn't mean you're comfortable. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna rely on anyone that I barely remember anything about,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I'm sitting here trying to There's nothing
Speaker 1: I can really remember. And I watched every single game,
Speaker 1: so there was nothing memorable that he did for me
Speaker 1: to feel comfortable enough to say, oh yeah, let's rely
Speaker 1: on this guy on Kelvin Joseph. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: when I look at the money on Anthony Brown and
Speaker 1: Jordan Lewis, and it's crazy because I would love to
Speaker 1: have that kind of money, But at the same time,
Speaker 1: it just looks so little. It's like, okay, we have
Speaker 1: we all, you have to, you have to, we all
Speaker 1: have to agree that there's an NFL standard, and then
Speaker 1: there's a real life you take this. He rolls off.
Speaker 1: That's what I found as comfortable, Like there's five million dollars,
Speaker 1: But if I just look at his five that feels
Speaker 1: better to me than say five, I would faint. I
Speaker 1: would faint if presented with five million dollars. But in
Speaker 1: the world of the NFL, it's nothing. But when you
Speaker 1: look at their money and what the Cowboys would save,
Speaker 1: I'm just like, uh, it's it's nothing. Well, but let's
Speaker 1: let's zeros. I think, man, I want to take two
Speaker 1: zeros off, right, what do I mean? Just just to
Speaker 1: make you feel like it just it just feels more
Speaker 1: natural to just say five versus five million, like for me,
Speaker 1: just feels a little a little more relatable. You have
Speaker 1: to just make the concession that we're way out of
Speaker 1: our depth and you're just like, look this, this is
Speaker 1: not our world. We're just talking about it. And just
Speaker 1: to be clear, Anthony Brown, if they were cut him,
Speaker 1: they would say five billion. And as regardless of if
Speaker 1: they cut him now or they cut him, say I
Speaker 1: said billion. I did not say. I did not. I
Speaker 1: was not trying to say billion. That's way off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: five million, he would. They would say five million against
Speaker 1: the cap, whether it's now or June first cut. And
Speaker 1: Jordan Lewis would save two point three if they cut
Speaker 1: him now, three point four million if they cut him
Speaker 1: as a June one cut. What I would do with
Speaker 1: the cornerbacks? Again, I say this about everything like depth
Speaker 1: is great. I love having depth. Like you look at
Speaker 1: the cornerback chart, maybe the best I've felt about the
Speaker 1: cornerback depth chart for this team and forever, Like you've
Speaker 1: got a superstar, two adequate starters, and then two highly
Speaker 1: drafted guys that maybe you're not thrilled about, but you
Speaker 1: don't feel bad about. I mean, it's about as good
Speaker 1: as you can ask for, unless you stumble into Allegian
Speaker 1: in the fu. Yeah, you take those guys to training camp.
Speaker 1: If Kelvin Joseph makes a digs like jump, now you
Speaker 1: got trade bait. Now you have the luxury to cut
Speaker 1: somebody at roster cuts if you need to. You still
Speaker 1: save that money, like you save that money in September
Speaker 1: the same way. Just doesn't help you in free agency
Speaker 1: with trying to resign your own guys or trying to
Speaker 1: get other guys. They don't give you enough money to
Speaker 1: really help you anyway. Like you get more money out
Speaker 1: of restructuring a bigger contract than you do out of
Speaker 1: cutting those guys. Well that's where I think, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's that whole principle with money, right, Yeah, A
Speaker 1: dime unto itself is not a lot of money, but
Speaker 1: you start collecting dimes and before you know it, you
Speaker 1: got a significant amount of money. I do think that
Speaker 1: five million dollars is nothing that like that that might
Speaker 1: help you resign a guy that you want to be
Speaker 1: able to keep right, that may be ja Ron curse, right,
Speaker 1: So I think it does matter. Even though it's not
Speaker 1: huge money. It's not the twenty million savings. Five million
Speaker 1: is significant. It's not a big enough saving for me
Speaker 1: to go messing with my depth chart. That's just me, like,
Speaker 1: and that's fair, that's fair, that's good to come down
Speaker 1: to the two guys you just mentioned, and Na Sean
Speaker 1: Wright and Kelvin Joseph if those guys are ready to
Speaker 1: make that leap. But I but do you know that
Speaker 1: they're ready until you get to like camp or even
Speaker 1: after that? Really no, And I don't think you can
Speaker 1: you can mess with it. They didn't show you enough
Speaker 1: things where you could be like, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: like Diggs. Diggs showed them enough that I mean they
Speaker 1: were excited about him, be honest, showed them enough that
Speaker 1: you know, they thought they could you know, I think
Speaker 1: it was a mistake, but whatever, I mean, But the
Speaker 1: rookies playing but Kelvin Joseph hasn't done that. And I've
Speaker 1: said it a hundred times. I'll say it again. These
Speaker 1: next three or four months are big, big months for
Speaker 1: him because his track record has never been about talent.
Speaker 1: It's about his commitment to where he's at and to
Speaker 1: put the extra work in there to really say, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm a part of this. I want to get better
Speaker 1: and not just live up to my athletic ability. That's
Speaker 1: why I want to see what he comes back in
Speaker 1: the offseason. Has he made this big leap as he does,
Speaker 1: his body look better, as he quicker, Is he taking
Speaker 1: care of himself, committed to it? If if so, he
Speaker 1: could be really good. But yeah, the seat you can't
Speaker 1: predict this to a certainty. But the ab and Jordan
Speaker 1: Lewis deals are small enough that they're probably movable too. Like,
Speaker 1: not for anything crazy, but if Kelvin Joseph is a
Speaker 1: badass at camp, you could trade one of those guys
Speaker 1: for a late round pick, which is better than cutting
Speaker 1: him for nothing. I mean, I know, you forego the savings,
Speaker 1: but again, I'm going to restructure Dak. You can restructure
Speaker 1: Zach Martin. You can do a lot of stuff to
Speaker 1: free up that money without having to cut those guys.
Speaker 1: I haven't looked out at all the free agents that
Speaker 1: are expected to be this year around the NFL. But
Speaker 1: could there be another guy that's you wouldn't necessarily be
Speaker 1: a grade in the position and spending a ton of money,
Speaker 1: but that could provide you some kind of the different
Speaker 1: like experience from a veteran guy that maybe it's slightly
Speaker 1: better than what you got in Anthony Brown. I don't know,
Speaker 1: like a guy that would be available in March, like
Speaker 1: somebody else's free agent. You mean, yeah, yeah, that maybe
Speaker 1: you're keeping an eye on and you're like, okay, this
Speaker 1: is doable, and he might be slightly better than Anthony Brown.
Speaker 1: We've seen what Anthony Brown has given us and maybe
Speaker 1: it just doesn't theoretically, yeah, I mean that could be possible.
Speaker 1: It will cost you more to sign somebody else's guy
Speaker 1: than to just keep your own, probably, But it comes
Speaker 1: down to what dan quinn can do, and dan Quinn
Speaker 1: will McClay those guys of the players that they've ad
Speaker 1: and say, hey, you know, Jon Curse wasn't with um
Speaker 1: dan Quinn. He just had played against him and seen
Speaker 1: him and said, you know, kind of had an eye
Speaker 1: on him, So yeah, that's what I'm looking at it.
Speaker 1: Who's gonna be those guys? We we oh, we talked
Speaker 1: about this on the thing we shot with Brit Johnson yesterday.
Speaker 1: Just like after seeing that, the pressures on to do
Speaker 1: it again because yeah, like that's a great point. Jaron
Speaker 1: Curse isn't even a career Quinn guy. Dan Quinn was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's sign him, and he's a beast, and Demonte Casey
Speaker 1: was pretty good and Malie Cooker was pretty good. Carlos
Speaker 1: Watkins probably doesn't get enough credit for how well he
Speaker 1: played relative to how much he costs, Like, well, go
Speaker 1: do it again, because they're not going to give you
Speaker 1: significantly more funding this year. But now we expect these
Speaker 1: free agents to hit because they did the first year
Speaker 1: under Quinn. If we go back to the norm where
Speaker 1: half of these guys get cut in the other half
Speaker 1: don't really do anything, that's gonna be first, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be a bummer, and it's also gonna impede this team
Speaker 1: from improving, like they have to do at least as
Speaker 1: good of a job this year finding those guys as
Speaker 1: they did last year. Allright, let's slip to the tight
Speaker 1: end position. Right now, you've got Blake Jarwin. He is
Speaker 1: if they were to cut him, they could get three
Speaker 1: point eight million back. If it's June one cut, they
Speaker 1: could get four point eight million back against their cap. Now,
Speaker 1: the entriesting part about that is you got Dalton Schultz,
Speaker 1: who will be a free agent, and not to say
Speaker 1: that you could sign him for that same money, but
Speaker 1: certainly anything could help. Do you think that Number one?
Speaker 1: Do you think that the Cowboys should make Dalton Schultz
Speaker 1: a priority as far as a free agent signing? And
Speaker 1: then number two, would you cut Blake Jarwin for the
Speaker 1: purposes of resigning Dalton Scholtz? I would? I would start
Speaker 1: with Schultz. I would. That would be the first thing
Speaker 1: that you know, if I'm the Cowboys, I make up
Speaker 1: my mind there. I'm like, do we feel like we
Speaker 1: need him to be a part of this? And if
Speaker 1: they're like, yes, we do. He's got to be here.
Speaker 1: He helps, you know, all the other guys, then then
Speaker 1: I would try to resign him. And then if that happens,
Speaker 1: then I'm going to let go of Jarwin. And the
Speaker 1: reason why is because I've always thought that they're almost
Speaker 1: the same player. You know, Neither one of them are
Speaker 1: great blockers. They're kind of their pass catcher. One's got
Speaker 1: better hands than the other, one can move a little
Speaker 1: bit better. One's taller and longer. But whatever, they they're
Speaker 1: about the same. So I need I need a blocker anyways,
Speaker 1: So I don't need both of them to do that
Speaker 1: and cost that kind of money. I could be wrong,
Speaker 1: I've been. It's it's so hard to predict what these
Speaker 1: guys are worth on the open market. I remember famously
Speaker 1: I missed the Terrence Williams things so bad, Like I
Speaker 1: just I thought he would get priced out of here,
Speaker 1: and he didn't. He wound up coming back. So anything's possible.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think the Cowboys will be able
Speaker 1: to compete with whatever Dalton Schultz gets offered if they
Speaker 1: let him hit free agency, which I assume they will.
Speaker 1: Like you just look at the free agent list, he's
Speaker 1: one of the better ones hitting this year, and certainly
Speaker 1: Graham Gronkowski, like all those guys are sort of moving
Speaker 1: out of their prime. Dalton Schultz is entering his prime.
Speaker 1: I just think I think he's going to get an
Speaker 1: offer that the Cowboys can't really compete with and so
Speaker 1: that's why I would love to keep him around. But
Speaker 1: I just think like that's a classic case of like
Speaker 1: we're gonna get a third or fourth round comp for
Speaker 1: a guy that we spent a fourth round pick on.
Speaker 1: We're gonna wish you well. Blake Jarwin has a very
Speaker 1: similar skill set, was probably going to be our starter
Speaker 1: before he got hurt in the first place, and we
Speaker 1: just move on. We just keep the guy that we
Speaker 1: already gave a small contract to and get a comp
Speaker 1: pick out of losing Schultz. That would be my guess
Speaker 1: as to what happens. Yeah, I agree with Dave. I
Speaker 1: don't think Schultz would be back on here and then
Speaker 1: asked for Blake Jarwin. I would be like, h I'm
Speaker 1: good with letting him go. But and I've been always
Speaker 1: a Blake Jarwin fan. But it's just and it's not
Speaker 1: his fault. You know, he's dealt with injuries and it's
Speaker 1: unfortunate he hasn't been what you expected him or thought
Speaker 1: he would be once Jason Witten went away and all that.
Speaker 1: But you have to keep certain guys. You cannot go
Speaker 1: out and start cutting people and save money here and there.
Speaker 1: You need a tight end you're gonna have to address
Speaker 1: the position regardless, but by cutting him and saving that
Speaker 1: little amount of money, you're creating a bigger need on
Speaker 1: an offense that already has plenty of other needs that
Speaker 1: you're gonna need to reinforce through the draft and hopefully
Speaker 1: some through free agency. So at this point I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: don't touch you just leaving on here because you need
Speaker 1: somebody there. Yeah, I kind of agree with all that
Speaker 1: because I personally what I look at it is I
Speaker 1: think they're comfortable players. I think, quite frankly, if Blake
Speaker 1: Jarwin had not had the injury, I think he would
Speaker 1: be having exact same kind of numbers as what you're seeing.
Speaker 1: Yet we'll be sorry from Blake Dalton Schultz. I don't
Speaker 1: think Dalton Schultz. And this is the part that really
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know how other teams look
Speaker 1: at him. Do they look at him as just the
Speaker 1: benefactor of the fact that the quarterback for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: found some synergy with him, tried to dump it off
Speaker 1: to him a lot because he wasn't really making the
Speaker 1: kind of plays often that we're like, oh my gosh, wow,
Speaker 1: that was a crazy athletic play or like he doesn't
Speaker 1: really have that thing that jumps out to you this like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, he's a really great player at the
Speaker 1: position other than his production, which is great, like he's
Speaker 1: catching a lot of balls. But I think if you
Speaker 1: had Blake Jarwin in the same situation, I think Blake
Speaker 1: Jarwin probably produces in the same way. And that's where
Speaker 1: I'm like, so give me the cheaper of the two.
Speaker 1: And if Blake Jarwin's a cheaper So I've been in
Speaker 1: Jarwin Truther since like twenty sixteen, so I'm with you
Speaker 1: on that. I think he can make all the same
Speaker 1: types of plays I do think. I don't think Dalton
Speaker 1: gets credit for his athleticism, Like he can make plays downfield.
Speaker 1: I can go make you a cut up of him
Speaker 1: making plays down the scene. He had a great catch
Speaker 1: against Vegas, touchdowns against Atlanta going down the field, shouts
Speaker 1: out to our friends at Spotrack, Like the resources in
Speaker 1: this department have come so far over the years that
Speaker 1: I've done this. You can go look at their projection
Speaker 1: for his next contract. It's four years, fifty one million.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I ain't paying that, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think the Cowboys can will even
Speaker 1: be able to compete honestly knowing that they're knowing their
Speaker 1: cap situation and the other things that they've got to
Speaker 1: get done, I don't think. And so that's it hasn't
Speaker 1: paid off so far, Like they haven't gotten what they
Speaker 1: thought they would out of Jarwins since they signed him.
Speaker 1: But that's why you do deals in advance. You're like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: this guy's pretty similar, basically the same tight end, and
Speaker 1: we've got him locked down for half the value of
Speaker 1: that contract. Let's just stick with that. I don't think
Speaker 1: fifty million would be enough to get them a third
Speaker 1: round comp pick, but it would probably get him a fourth. Yeah.
Speaker 1: By the way, good for Dalton Schultz if he can LA.
Speaker 1: Absolutely I would wish the best for him. But that's
Speaker 1: just one when you look at all the priorities for
Speaker 1: the Cowboys, I just don't know if he would be
Speaker 1: that off five, that far up my priority list when
Speaker 1: I'm already worried about if I'm talking, if they are
Speaker 1: actually having conversations about cutting guys like Amari Cooper and
Speaker 1: Tank Lawrence, then this is way down the priorities. I
Speaker 1: would not be wanting to cut those guys in favor
Speaker 1: of trying to get a deal done with Schultz just
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to me completely. And that's I don't
Speaker 1: I kind of hate these conversations because it makes it
Speaker 1: sound like I don't think Dalton Schultz is worth it.
Speaker 1: That's not true at all. I think he's He's had
Speaker 1: a fantastic two years. Fully in favor of him, Get go,
Speaker 1: get the bag, dude. I just don't think it's and
Speaker 1: there's a realistic that it's here now you're like, thank
Speaker 1: you for your time, you know what you did here,
Speaker 1: but it's time to move on. And that is that's
Speaker 1: that's the model that they've built. You can take issue
Speaker 1: with it if you want to, but you identify the
Speaker 1: guys that you need, and not everybody's gonna fit within
Speaker 1: those that that money constraint, and you say, well, we're
Speaker 1: going to get a draft pick for you, and we
Speaker 1: appreciate your time here and best of luck. I mean,
Speaker 1: hopefully it's not With the Eagles. It starts out like
Speaker 1: there's always one Domino that's scared. Just wouldn't want to
Speaker 1: have to root against him. Sorry, well, I just it's
Speaker 1: all about Amari Cooper. I mean he starts every conversation.
Speaker 1: That's where you get your money, right, Yeah, well that's
Speaker 1: how you get your money. But also, like Cooper and
Speaker 1: Lamb and then a pretty good third receiver, whoever it is,
Speaker 1: all of that helped open up the middle for Schultz.
Speaker 1: You don't put if Cooper's not there, and then it's
Speaker 1: just Lamb and then no one else that they're really
Speaker 1: scared of. So then that they double team him, and
Speaker 1: then I mean, he's he had a hard time sometimes
Speaker 1: getting open when he was the second guy, so now
Speaker 1: he's gonna be the first guy. And then I mean,
Speaker 1: the worst thing you could do is pay twelve and
Speaker 1: a half thirteen million for Schultz to keep him. But
Speaker 1: if you did that, you had to cut Cooper. And
Speaker 1: then now all of a sudden, you're like, why is
Speaker 1: Schultz not really that good? Because he's one of the
Speaker 1: focal points. And then it's like this other Cedric Wilson's
Speaker 1: not getting open, right, So it's like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, it all starts with a Mari, and I
Speaker 1: just think that would be the dumbest thing in the
Speaker 1: world to cut Amari Cooper. I really do preach, because
Speaker 1: they're gonna do it so they can keep Randy. But
Speaker 1: was the defense? Was the defense awesome last year? I
Speaker 1: mean I just relative was the defense awesome? And I
Speaker 1: don't think it was awesome. I think it was good
Speaker 1: at times, it wasn't awesome. So you're gonna keep giving
Speaker 1: you in years, doesn't matter. I'm gonna be like God
Speaker 1: that we're pretty awesome. Yeah, well, that's the thing. It's
Speaker 1: a it's a relative comparison, right compared to the year before,
Speaker 1: they were awesome. But if you just look at them
Speaker 1: in the pantheon of all the teams in the NFL,
Speaker 1: and their defense is I don't know that it was awesome.
Speaker 1: It was good, and it certainly was better. So you're
Speaker 1: gonna keep Randy Gregory so you can keep that same,
Speaker 1: you know, defense, But you're gonna lose Amri in this.
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. I'm keeping Amri. I'm keeping this
Speaker 1: offense to be great. I need something to be great,
Speaker 1: and then I'll figure out the defense and let Dan
Speaker 1: Quinn figure out the defense. He's getting paid a lot
Speaker 1: more than he did last year. Figure it out even again,
Speaker 1: the frustrating thing is that they could accomplish both of
Speaker 1: those goals. They could push Amar's money back to free
Speaker 1: up cap space to keep other guys, and they just
Speaker 1: haven't shown a willingness to touch his money. They'll touch
Speaker 1: everybody else's money, yeah, every even like guys who, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, or not living up to their contract nearly
Speaker 1: as well as a Marir, But they don't want to
Speaker 1: touch his money. And I said that last week on
Speaker 1: the show, and I said, you know the way to
Speaker 1: do that with a mari and give him twenty million
Speaker 1: and now you're only going to count about ten or
Speaker 1: twelve this year, But that does push it up almost
Speaker 1: twenty eight thirty million next year, So that doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: make sense. I mean, you're hoping that the NFL TV
Speaker 1: contracts come in and push the cap up and all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. But question, and you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know many things about when it comes to contracts
Speaker 1: and things like that, but when you're talking about restructuring
Speaker 1: a player's contract, is that something that the player and
Speaker 1: his agent have to be an agreement with prior or
Speaker 1: the Cowboys can just do it and socause it's within
Speaker 1: in some cases, the player has to if you're going
Speaker 1: to cut his contract, like we're gonna pay you less money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is a separate negotiation. It really doesn't happen that
Speaker 1: often because players are like, no, screw, you can cut me.
Speaker 1: But a lot of the cowboys build their contrac tracks.
Speaker 1: When I say restructure, you can convert their salary into
Speaker 1: a bonus, which they immediately get. It reduces their cap
Speaker 1: hit and pushes it into the future, which makes them
Speaker 1: harder to cut later, but gives you instant relief. And
Speaker 1: you can do that with a click of a button.
Speaker 1: It's usually designed into these contracts where you email the
Speaker 1: agent and say, we're triggering this today. We're not asking,
Speaker 1: we're just doing it. You know, Amari's check for twelve
Speaker 1: million will be in the mail by the end of
Speaker 1: the week. Correct me if I'm wrong. I want to
Speaker 1: say Jeff Kavanaugh tweeted this, but someone tweeted is you
Speaker 1: responded to it where basically, if you if they triggered
Speaker 1: right now, they'd have like sixty six million dollars available
Speaker 1: to them, which you know I mean, and and a
Speaker 1: lot of it we talked about it last week. A
Speaker 1: lot of it is stuff where you're like, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: if you push some money forward, really the only contract
Speaker 1: you'd probably be really concerned about doing that with Zeke,
Speaker 1: just because you know, is that the amount of money
Speaker 1: you're paying to a running back with that level of production,
Speaker 1: is that work going through the whole contract all the others.
Speaker 1: You could probably make a case to say, I don't
Speaker 1: know if I'm really against them pushing money forward on
Speaker 1: these because a lot of them are gonna come do
Speaker 1: anyway in the next year or two. I would be
Speaker 1: nervous about doing it with Tank. How many years he
Speaker 1: got left on his deal, two or three? Two or three?
Speaker 1: And the injury history makes you nervous. I mean you could,
Speaker 1: but I don't think it kills you. I guess you
Speaker 1: just you just have to wait. You don't think it
Speaker 1: kills you until he tears his labor from in August,
Speaker 1: and so you're not getting anything for a guy that
Speaker 1: is killing your cap now and can't be cut later.
Speaker 1: I mean, you just you got to weigh all that stuff.
Speaker 1: You think He's at a point now where you're worried
Speaker 1: every year is gonna be an injury for Tank. I
Speaker 1: hate to dog the guy, but the results are what
Speaker 1: they are. I mean, yeah, yes he has and it's
Speaker 1: a testament to his toughness that he hasn't missed more
Speaker 1: time honestly, because like he's played He played all of
Speaker 1: eighteen with like his shoulder just screwed up, you know
Speaker 1: like that. I mean, he's played through a lot of stuff,
Speaker 1: and he's also missed time. But yes, the accumulation of
Speaker 1: injuries is significant. That it's it would always be in
Speaker 1: the back of my mind that one makes more sense
Speaker 1: in two part ways with than Amari to me, just
Speaker 1: because especially if you're gonna resign Randy, right yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean yeah, if you resign Randy and then whatever you
Speaker 1: do with Micah, you know, whatever that is that I
Speaker 1: could see that being. I won't be surprised if the
Speaker 1: Cowboys tried to talk to Tank and his people about
Speaker 1: a pay cut, and I won't be surprised at all
Speaker 1: if Tank and his people are like, nah, I'm good.
Speaker 1: He just find hitting the open market if that's what
Speaker 1: you want to do, right Yeah. So I think that's
Speaker 1: probably the way, Like it's it. I use the term
Speaker 1: fun facetiously, but like I think it's I think they're
Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna get a little chaotic here over the
Speaker 1: next like five six weeks. Yeah, crazy, because it feels
Speaker 1: like it was just yesterday when we were having the
Speaker 1: press conference and Tank signing that contract and all that.
Speaker 1: It's like NFL, change is fast. If comes at you fast,
Speaker 1: change is really fast. All right, appreciate you guys joining us.
Speaker 1: We had a good conversation today. Next week we'll get
Speaker 1: back to you. Have more conversation till then. For Nick Even,
Speaker 1: Dave helm and Amber Garcia. I am Derek Eielton. This
Speaker 1: has been The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio.
Speaker 1: This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.