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Speaker 1: Hey, Orgy, do you like your bananas really really fresh?

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Speaker 1: Or like gently.

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Speaker 7: Decayed decayd but do like a rotten You know, bananas

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Speaker 7: are on the spectrum from like crunchy and green to

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Speaker 7: black and mushy, and everybody likes them differently.

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Speaker 1: Where do you sit on that spectrum?

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Speaker 6: Mmmm? I like him yellow but with a little bit

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Speaker 6: of a speckle to them.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm, so slightly decayed.

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Speaker 6: Slightly decayed but only a little bit. But you know,

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Speaker 6: I'm flexible. It depends on the how desperate I am

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Speaker 6: for banana.

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Speaker 1: And how desperate you are to keep from decaying.

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Speaker 6: What do you mean the bananas help you live.

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Speaker 1: Longer, probably longer than chocolate.

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Speaker 6: I am Hoorgemake Cartoonists, an author of Oliver's Great Big Universe.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 1: at uc OR Irvine, and I honestly think bananas and

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Speaker 1: chocolate don't mix.

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Speaker 6: You've never had it together before?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I've tried them. It's just not a good combination.

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Speaker 1: The texture just clashes.

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Speaker 6: Hmm. I wonder if you had the right way, like

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Speaker 6: on a fondue. Have you had it on a fondue.

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Speaker 6: Then they're both kind of soft and uh and delicious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but the bananas still got that squishiness to it,

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Speaker 1: you know, where the chocolate is like smooth and luxurious.

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Speaker 6: M Do you like anything with your chocolate or are

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Speaker 6: your chocolate purist?

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Speaker 8: Now?

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Speaker 1: Pretzels and chocolate's good. Bread and chocolate a good. Some

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Speaker 1: fruits with chocolate, like a raspberry with chocolate, it's good.

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Speaker 1: Cherries andcolate blueberries and chocolate bananas just doesn't fit.

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Speaker 9: It.

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Speaker 6: Sounds like you've done a lot of experimenting.

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Speaker 1: I like to think of myself as very thorough.

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Speaker 6: Thorough in your chocolate consumption. But how thorough are you?

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Speaker 1: Though?

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Speaker 6: Have you tried chocolate covered sardines?

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes you just want to explore, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: you want to be guided by the theory. And the

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Speaker 1: theory tells me chocolate sardines are disgusting.

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Speaker 6: Chocolate covered broccoli perhaps.

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Speaker 1: Chocolate covered garbage.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, did you just call broccoli garbage?

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Speaker 1: No, but I think the combination of chocolate and broccoli

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Speaker 1: is garbage in theory. In theory, I could be.

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Speaker 6: I don't know for sure. Yeah, you could be wrong.

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Speaker 1: Somebody out there tell me about your savory chocolate exploration.

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Speaker 6: That's right, and then write a paper about it, and

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Speaker 6: then maybe Daniel will believe you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll even cite your paper.

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Speaker 6: In your own paper journal chocolate covered pretzels or about

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Speaker 6: chocolate covered sardines.

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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, there's an academic field for everything.

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Speaker 6: But anyways, welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain

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Speaker 6: the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Where we don't just talk about chocolate or bananas or

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Speaker 1: chocolate and bananas. We talk about big questions about the universe,

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Speaker 1: things that actually matter, things that make you go hmm,

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Speaker 1: I wish I knew the answer to that question, or

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Speaker 1: my life would be different if I knew the answer

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Speaker 1: to this question. Those are the kind of questions we

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Speaker 1: dig into on the podcast. How big is the universe?

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Speaker 1: Where did it all come from? How does it all work?

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Speaker 1: And we want to answer not just the questions that

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Speaker 1: are in the minds of professional scientists, but your questions,

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Speaker 1: the ones that you struggle with when you're trying to

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Speaker 1: make sense of the universe, or the ones that keep

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Speaker 1: you up at night. So send us your questions to

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Speaker 1: Questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. You'll get an answer.

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Speaker 6: That's right. We'd like to address all kinds of questions,

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Speaker 6: the kind that make you think that the universe is

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Speaker 6: amazing and sometimes a little bit bananas. Those amazing facts

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Speaker 6: about the universe that make the cosmos such a slippery

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Speaker 6: subject to study, but at the same time so aren't appealing.

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Speaker 1: What seems to continuously amaze listeners is that I'm promising

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Speaker 1: on air to answer all of their questions, and then

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Speaker 1: I get an email from somebody and they're amazed that

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Speaker 1: I actually write them back. I got an email from

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Speaker 1: a listener this morning saying, wow, you really will do

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Speaker 1: right back to all of us. It's like, yes, call

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Speaker 1: my bluff, write to me with your questions. I really

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Speaker 1: do want to answer them.

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Speaker 6: WELLY do you think they're surprised?

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Speaker 1: I think if there's a lot of science communicators out

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Speaker 1: there that don't respond to their emails and that publicly

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Speaker 1: complain about how many emails they get and are negative

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Speaker 1: and stand offish about it, and yeah, I take the

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Speaker 1: opposite approach, and so maybe that's surprising to people. I

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Speaker 1: am a busy guy. Of course, I got lots of

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Speaker 1: things going on. But to me, this is a real joy.

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Speaker 1: I don't want this podcast to just be a one

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Speaker 1: direction a lecture. I want it to be a conversation

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Speaker 1: with everybody out there who's excited about these things, who

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a friendly neighborhood physicist, They can ask these

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Speaker 1: questions too, So yeah, send us your questions, engage with us,

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Speaker 1: have a conversation.

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Speaker 6: Do you know any friendly neighborhood physicists for friendly physicists.

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Speaker 1: I think you know one, yeah.

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Speaker 6: But anyways, we do like to answer listener questions here,

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Speaker 6: and sometimes we'd like to answer them here on the podcast,

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Speaker 6: live or at least pre recorded on the.

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Speaker 1: Internet, live and heavily edited.

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Speaker 6: Are we he heavily edited? I didn't know that how

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Speaker 6: heavily edited?

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Speaker 10: Are we?

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Speaker 6: Can I just say anything and someone's gonna censor me.

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Speaker 1: You should check out our behind the scenes episode where

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Speaker 1: we talked to Corey about how much he cuts and

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Speaker 1: how much he keeps. Mostly it all ends up on

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Speaker 1: the air, but sometimes, you know, we back up and

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Speaker 1: say things another way.

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Speaker 6: But we do like to answer questions answer to the

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Speaker 6: on the podcast. We'll be tackling listener questions number sixty five.

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Speaker 6: We're getting four closer to one number. We might have

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Speaker 6: to skip Dan you. Well, we have three awesome questions

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Speaker 6: here today from listeners. We have questions about banana radiation,

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Speaker 6: the half life of tiny particles, and how fast things

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Speaker 6: spin around a black hole. I guess whether or not

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Speaker 6: other bananas or not?

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Speaker 1: Well, that makes the go bananas?

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Speaker 6: What if there have bananas?

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Speaker 1: You'll have to ask that question and find out.

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Speaker 6: All right, well, let's get right down to it. Our

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Speaker 6: first question comes from Samia, who hails from Morocco.

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Speaker 9: Hi Daniel Hi hot Hay, So, I have been pondering

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Speaker 9: something lately. How do scientists define the half life of nuclids?

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Speaker 9: I always assumed it was determined experimentally, but then I

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Speaker 9: stumbled upon those massive numbers in billions of years. An

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Speaker 9: example of this is potassium, commonly found in Hoogey's favorite snacks, bananas.

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Speaker 9: They have half life of one point four billion years.

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Speaker 9: So it's definitely not just experimental and also not a guesswork.

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Speaker 9: So I am really curious about the actual answer.

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Speaker 6: All right, interesting question, I guess. Samia's question is how

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Speaker 6: do you know stuff? Daniel, like, have you actually measured

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Speaker 6: the half life of some things that maybe take billions

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Speaker 6: of years to decay?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question, and I like that way

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Speaker 1: he roots it in something very practical. Bananas of course.

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Speaker 1: And it's a good question how we can measure these

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Speaker 1: things that take like a billion years to happen, because

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Speaker 1: we haven't been doing signs for a billion years.

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Speaker 6: Right right, humans haven't been around for for a billion years, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So if something takes a billion years to happen,

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Speaker 1: you can't possibly measure it, right. But the answer here

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Speaker 1: lies in understanding what people mean when they say half life.

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Speaker 1: If the half life of potassium is one point four

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Speaker 1: billion years, that doesn't mean you have to wait one

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Speaker 1: point four billion years for anything to happen. The half

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Speaker 1: life is the time it takes on average for half

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Speaker 1: of the atoms to decay. So if you wait one

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Speaker 1: point four billion years, that means half of them are

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Speaker 1: decayed and half of them have not. But some of

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Speaker 1: them may have decayed very early on, in the first

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Speaker 1: few seconds you were watching, or the first few minutes

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Speaker 1: you were watching. Half life is per atom. It's really

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Speaker 1: the time for an atom to have a fifty percent

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Speaker 1: chance of decaying.

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Speaker 6: Well, what's kind of interesting about the half life is

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Speaker 6: that it's almost always true, right, Like if you have

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Speaker 6: a ton of a material, it'll take a certain number

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Speaker 6: of years to decay down to half, But if you

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Speaker 6: have a little bit of that material, you'll still take

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Speaker 6: the same amount of time to decay down to half

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Speaker 6: of that much material.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's relative and it's per atom, right. Every

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Speaker 1: atom is independent. They don't affect each other. Doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: how many atoms you have. You start from one hundred,

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Speaker 1: it takes the half life to get down fifty you

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Speaker 1: start from a billion, it takes that half life to

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Speaker 1: get down from a billion to half a billion, because

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Speaker 1: you could just break that billion into chunks of one hundred,

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Speaker 1: each of which then decay down into fifties.

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Speaker 6: Right, Right, like a banana would take a billion years

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Speaker 6: to decay, whether it's a tiny little banana or a humongous,

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Speaker 6: galaxy sized banana.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, because they don't interact, right, they're all independent,

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Speaker 1: and so it doesn't matter how many you have. And

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Speaker 1: the key to understanding how you could measure something that

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Speaker 1: takes a billion years is that stuff is happening even

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Speaker 1: in the first few moments potentially, and that's because every

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Speaker 1: atom has the same probability. They don't have like an age.

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Speaker 1: It's not like a clock inside of them. It says, oh,

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Speaker 1: somebody's been watching me for a billion years or for

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Speaker 1: a million years, it's time for me to decay. Every

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Speaker 1: moment the atom has like a fresh chance to decay,

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Speaker 1: and it rolls a die, and it's like a die

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Speaker 1: with sixty million sides or something, and one side says

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Speaker 1: decay and the other side say don't. And every moment

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Speaker 1: the universe is rolling that die. So the probability for

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Speaker 1: an individual atom to decay is constant in time, right,

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Speaker 1: which means there's always a chance for any atom to decay.

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Speaker 1: It's just a question of like how long it takes

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Speaker 1: for half of them to eventually hit that number.

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Speaker 6: Or as you said, how long it takes for it

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Speaker 6: to have that particular atom to have a fifty percent

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Speaker 6: chance of decay exactly, Like, if you just give it

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Speaker 6: a minute, probably that it's going to decay is probably

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Speaker 6: super duper small. If you give it ten years, it's

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Speaker 6: a little bit bigger. If you give it a billion years,

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Speaker 6: then there's a fifty percent chance that it's going to

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Speaker 6: decay by.

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Speaker 1: Then, exactly. And even after after a minute or a moment,

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Speaker 1: there's still a non zero chance of it decaying. Right,

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Speaker 1: you have a single potassium atom, say the half life

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Speaker 1: is a billion years, I haven't even looked it up.

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Speaker 1: It still has a chance of decaying after the first

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Speaker 1: moment it rolls that die and it might hit it

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Speaker 1: the very first time, right, and decay right there, even

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Speaker 1: if it's half life is a billion years. A long

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Speaker 1: half life comes from having a small probability of decaying

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Speaker 1: at any given moment. A short half life comes from

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Speaker 1: having a high probability decaying. If like ninety percent of

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Speaker 1: the sides of that die, say, decay, then the stuff's

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Speaker 1: going to decay away pretty quickly.

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Speaker 10: Right.

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Speaker 6: But I think time would maybe have the same question

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Speaker 6: about the single atom, like, how do you know a

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Speaker 6: single atom of potassium takes a billion year to have

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Speaker 6: a fifty percent chance of decaying if you've never measured

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Speaker 6: one for billion years?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And the key is not to look at a

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Speaker 1: single atom. So if you're looking for something really rare

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Speaker 1: to happen, but it could happen at any moment, or

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Speaker 1: you don't have to wait a billion years, it could

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Speaker 1: happen at any moment, the key is to look at

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Speaker 1: a lot of atoms. Right, If you have like one

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Speaker 1: in a billion chance for a potasim atom to decay

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Speaker 1: at any moment. Then you just need a billion of them,

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Speaker 1: or ten billion of them, or fifty billion of them,

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Speaker 1: and then you'll see one of them decay. So if

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Speaker 1: you start with a big enough blob of potassium atoms,

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Speaker 1: you'll start to see them decay almost instantly. It'll still

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Speaker 1: take a billion years for half of them to decay,

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Speaker 1: because it's very rare for any individual one to decay.

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Speaker 1: But you got lots of them, just like lots of

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Speaker 1: monkeys in your room with typewriters. Pretty quickly one of

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Speaker 1: them is going to type up Shakespeare.

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Speaker 6: Right, But you're not measuring individual atoms. Even if you

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Speaker 6: have a billion atoms of potassium, your experiment is not

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Speaker 6: going to be looking at an individual atom the decay.

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Speaker 1: It depends on the decay. Sometimes you can see an

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Speaker 1: individual decay if it's, for example, generates radiation, then you

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Speaker 1: could pick up a single particle. You know, we have

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Speaker 1: these very sensitive detectors that can see individual particles, So

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Speaker 1: in principle, yeah, you could see an individual atom decay.

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Speaker 1: In practice, you don't even have to be that sensitive,

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Speaker 1: so mostly you can just look for the decay products

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Speaker 1: and you'll see plenty of them, because is it's not

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Speaker 1: hard to have ten to the thirty atoms, right. Atoms

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Speaker 1: are so small that just like a handful of any

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Speaker 1: element is a huge number of atoms. So it's not

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Speaker 1: hard to get a huge number of them, which means

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Speaker 1: you can see really rare things happening just because you've

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Speaker 1: got so many little monkeys in that room all typing away.

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Speaker 6: I wonder when maybe the real ass or maybe the

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Speaker 6: best way to explain this is to explain that the

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Speaker 6: half life of something is really just an arbitrary number, right,

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Speaker 6: Like we just call it a halflight because that's something

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Speaker 6: that's kind of easy for our minds to grabs, like, oh,

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Speaker 6: it's when fifty percent of it the case, But really

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Speaker 6: that number of the half life is just the rate

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Speaker 6: of decay. And you can measure that also in like

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Speaker 6: not the halflight, but like the quarter life of something,

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Speaker 6: or the one tenth of a life of something or

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Speaker 6: the one million time of something, and all of those

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Speaker 6: rates are basically the same. They're all related, like once

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Speaker 6: you know one, you know all the other ones.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's definitely an arbitrary element there, right, the fact

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Speaker 1: that we choose to define the half life at fifty percent.

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Speaker 1: You're right, you could choose to define the quarter life

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Speaker 1: or the tenth life, or the ninety percent life or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Half life is an arbitrary choice, but it also does

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Speaker 1: reflect something which is not arbitrary, which is the decay probability.

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Speaker 1: So it determined by that decay probability. But you're right,

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Speaker 1: that decay probability at any given moment also could determine

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Speaker 1: the quarter life or the tenth life. It's just a

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Speaker 1: standard we choose for comparing things. And we know that

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Speaker 1: a short half life means a high probability to decay

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Speaker 1: at any moment. A long half life means a small

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Speaker 1: probabilities to decay at any moment. That's what you get

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Speaker 1: more of them. But you can actually measure things that

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Speaker 1: happen very very rarely as long as you have enough examples.

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Speaker 6: Right, So then, like if you wanted to measure the

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Speaker 6: half life or the dek rate of potassium, you wouldn't

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Speaker 6: have to wait a billion years. You would maybe just

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Speaker 6: wait one year or ten years and see how much

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Speaker 6: of that blob of potassium you have decays, and maybe

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Speaker 6: it's you know, one millionth or one billionth of the

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Speaker 6: material has decayed. But even that one billionth tells you

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Speaker 6: basically the rate of decay, which then lets you extrapolate

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Speaker 6: to what the half life would be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. You don't have to observe half of a

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Speaker 1: decaying to measure the half life. You just have to

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Speaker 1: measure the decay rate. And as long as you have

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Speaker 1: enough examples, you'll see some decay and you can measure

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Speaker 1: that decay rate. You can even do crazy things like

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Speaker 1: measure the lifetime of a proton to be longer than

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Speaker 1: the age of a universe.

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Speaker 6: Which is true, right, that's what you've measured.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because we've never seen a proton decay, so we

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Speaker 1: don't know do protons live forever or do they just

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Speaker 1: live a very very long time. And we've watched a

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Speaker 1: bunch of protons waiting to see if one of them

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Speaker 1: decays and never seen one, And so we can say, well,

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Speaker 1: the lifetime of a proton is at least ten to

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Speaker 1: the thirty one years, which is a huge number. Right.

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Speaker 1: The age of the universe is like ten to the

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Speaker 1: thirteen years.

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Speaker 6: But have you ever seen a proton decay? Never seen

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Speaker 6: a single one, never seen, never seen one. But you've

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Speaker 6: also never seen an electron decay.

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Speaker 9: That's right.

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Speaker 6: For electrons, you say that it never decays.

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Speaker 1: We say it never decays. We don't actually know that.

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Speaker 1: We just know that they're stable on time scales that

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Speaker 1: are much longer than the life of the universe. But yeah,

382
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Speaker 1: they could decay.

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Speaker 6: Did you just say that You say things without really

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Speaker 6: knowing them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's always a qualification when we say we

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Speaker 1: know something, right. Nothing we know about physics could be true.

387
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Speaker 1: It could be that everything is upturned later or shown

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Speaker 1: to just be an approximation. In the case of an electron,

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Speaker 1: we call it stable because that's what stable means for us, Like,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't decay over billions and billions of years. It

391
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Speaker 1: might live forever, or it might decay after ten to

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Speaker 1: the fifty years. We definitely know a lot about the

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Speaker 1: lifetime of the electron, but we don't know everything about it.

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Speaker 6: But then, what's the difference between an electron and proton?

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Speaker 6: That makes you think that a proton has a lot

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Speaker 6: of half life but an electron does not.

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00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good question, because the proton is not fundamental, right,

398
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 1: it's an assembly of smaller bits. We already know that

399
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Speaker 1: the electron might be fundamental, might just be the electron

400
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,440
Speaker 1: is made of the electron, in which case it's stable.

401
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 1: But if it's made of smaller things that could change

402
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,240
Speaker 1: their configuration and turn into something else, it'd be more

403
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,840
Speaker 1: likely to be unstable. And we know the proton is

404
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,960
Speaker 1: made of smaller bits, right, there's just an arrangement of

405
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,440
Speaker 1: quarks and a slightly different arrangements of those same quarks.

406
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Speaker 1: The neutron is not stable. The neutron on wily lasts

407
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,200
Speaker 1: for like eleven minutes. You got a bunch of neutrons

408
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: in space. They'll decay really quickly. So it's sort of

409
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,120
Speaker 1: a mystery why the proton is stable. And there's lots

410
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,920
Speaker 1: of juicy theories out there that particle theorists like because

411
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 1: they solve other problems that predict the proton should decay,

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Speaker 1: And all those theories are ruined by the fact that

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Speaker 1: the proton doesn't decay. So there's a bunch of experiments

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Speaker 1: out there hoping to see a proton decay.

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Speaker 6: Interesting, Now, do you have a juicy theory about the

416
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,120
Speaker 6: decay of bananas?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 6: Like, can you make banana juice? Is that such a thing?

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Speaker 1: It's called the smoothie my theory is that when bananas

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Speaker 1: decay they get way too juicy and griss mmm, too.

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Speaker 6: Soft, too softly.

422
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Speaker 1: But it's really cool to think that you can say

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Speaker 1: something about protons over like ten to the thirty years,

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Speaker 1: even though no proton has existed that long, not even

425
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Speaker 1: a tiny fraction of that length.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, or even about potassium, right, it's amazing we can

427
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Speaker 6: say that the potasium in a bananas, I'm going to

428
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 6: decay for one point four billion years, because we know

429
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Speaker 6: we've seen it decay and it decays super duper slowly.

430
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Speaker 6: So from that you can extrapolate that it's going to

431
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Speaker 6: take I want and have billion years to decay to

432
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 6: half of its initial quantity.

433
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So if you want to see something do

434
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 1: something rare, just get a whole lot of them, that's

435
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 1: the answer.

436
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,440
Speaker 6: Are you saying people should go out there and get

437
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 6: a lot of bananas.

438
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Speaker 1: If you want to see bananas do something rare. If

439
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,080
Speaker 1: you think bananas get up and dance in the middle

440
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 1: of the night and you think that's pretty rare, then yeah,

441
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 1: get a lot of bananas, watch them all at night

442
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: and see what they do.

443
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 10: Well.

444
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 6: The half life of bananas in my house is pretty short.

445
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 6: Now that my son is growing up and he's doing

446
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 6: all kinds of exercise and he's downing those bananas pretty

447
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:37,120
Speaker 6: pretty fast.

448
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 1: Does he do that thing kids do, which is like

449
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,640
Speaker 1: just eat half a banana and then leave it around?

450
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 1: Is that what half life of banana means in your house?

451
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:44,120
Speaker 10: Well?

452
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 6: I think he learned that for me. But yeah, he

453
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 6: takes a knife and he cuts a banana and then

454
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 6: he'll eat the other half the next day. All right, well,

455
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 6: great question, thank you, Samia, And let's get to our

456
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 6: other questions here today. We have questions about more bananas,

457
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 6: it seems, and black holes or maybe both, so let's

458
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 6: dig into that. But first let's take a quick break.

459
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508
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Speaker 1: of Greek yogurt, you're probably not thinking about the environmental

509
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 1: impact of each and every bite, But the people in

510
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511
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512
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514
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516
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Speaker 1: cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes the barn, and irrigates

517
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531
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 6: All right, we're taking listener questions here today, and our

532
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 6: next question comes from Bill.

533
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 10: Hi, Daniel, and Jor. This is Bill. I was thinking

534
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 10: about banana radiation and realized that while half lives of

535
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 10: various decays are well characterized, I can't find anything about

536
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 10: how long a decay actually takes. It must take some

537
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 10: time for an atom of one element to turn into

538
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 10: another element and various particles. Is this time unmeasurably short?

539
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 10: Does it vary for different types of decay? Thanks?

540
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 6: All right, another banana radiation half live question? Is that

541
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 6: a theme today? Were you feeling really bananas today?

542
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't me, just I think Bill and Sammy I

543
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: just wrote in about bananas decaying at the same moment.

544
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: It's sort of amazing.

545
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 6: At the same time, like the same timestamp.

546
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think some potassium particle must have triggered inside

547
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: their brains.

548
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, what's the probability of that happening. It's bananas.

549
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: Their brains are banana tangled quantum bananament.

550
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 6: Well, you know you don't have to answer these in order, Dani,

551
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 6: we could have saved spread out some of the banana

552
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 6: conversations across several listener question episodes.

553
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: I'm too busy answering listener emails to organize these.

554
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 6: I see, you're too busy directing your grad students to

555
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 6: answer the the emails.

556
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: I am not allowed to get my grad students to

557
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: work on this project for free.

558
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 6: Absolutely no, Oh, for free? I see. But if you

559
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 6: pay them bananas, then it's totally kosher.

560
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: Do you want to pay my grad students out of

561
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: the podcast? Let's do it.

562
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 6: If we can pay them in bananas, Sure, it sounds

563
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 6: like a great deal and it'll be good for them.

564
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: You know, the grad students here unionized recently, so bananas

565
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: are definitely off the table for payment.

566
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 6: Oh, I don't know, are they have you read the

567
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 6: union rules? May they make exceptions for bananas?

568
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: Don't they do? That was not a clause on the

569
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: bargaining table.

570
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 6: I see, I see to slippery a point of contention.

571
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 6: All right, Well back to the question. Bill has a question,

572
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 6: but it's a kind of a different question about banana

573
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 6: radiation and decay. He's not asking like how long it

574
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 6: takes a bit the potastium in a banana to de kay,

575
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 6: but basically how long it takes for something to decay? Like,

576
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 6: if something decays, does it happen instantly or does it

577
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 6: take a certain amount of time?

578
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a super awesome question because it really

579
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: reveals the limits of our knowledge and also how those

580
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: limits have changed. I mean the short answer is, for

581
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: some things, it's effectively instantaneous because we can't measure how

582
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 1: fast it is, like an individual decay. How long does

583
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,959
Speaker 1: it take one atom to turn into another kind, or

584
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: for a neutron to turn into a proton, or for

585
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 1: invert beta decay to happen. For some processes, we can't

586
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: measure it, so we treat it as instantaneous though we

587
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: don't actually know what.

588
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 6: Do you mean we can measure like it happens too

589
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 6: fast or is just impossible to measure.

590
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: I don't think it's impossible to measure in principle, like

591
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: if we had higher energy probes and we could look

592
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: inside and see the mechanics of what was happening, then

593
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: we would see that something is happening, and that takes time.

594
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: And because we can't see inside and we don't have

595
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: like fast enough measuring devices, it's as if it's instantaneous

596
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: in some cases but not in others. And we've made

597
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: some progress. So, for example, we used to treat beta

598
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: decay when a neutron turns into a proton and emits

599
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: an electron, as an instantaneous thing. We're like, well, this

600
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: is just one thing that happens. A neutron turns into

601
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: a proton and an electron boom, And like fifty years ago,

602
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: we couldn't see inside the neutron or the proton to

603
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: understand like what was actually happening there. We just treated

604
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: them all as point particles, and we said there was

605
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: a before and there's an after, and in the middle,

606
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: we don't know what happens. We just treat it as

607
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: an instantaneous step.

608
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 6: But I guess maybe more fundamentally, do you think these

609
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 6: things are happening instantaneously or do you think all of

610
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 6: these things decays, particle interactions, do they all take some time?

611
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,479
Speaker 1: Everything in the universe definitely takes some time, even if

612
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: you're transitioning between fundamental states like say, for example, you

613
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: have a photon and it's turning into an electron and

614
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: a positron. Right, we don't know what's inside the photon.

615
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: We don't know what's inside the electron, the positron, we

616
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: don't know what's happening there. So assume that those are

617
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: fundamental things in the universe. When a photon turns into

618
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: an electron apostitotron, you can ask like, is that instantaneous?

619
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,719
Speaker 1: Is there a moment when it's a photon and then

620
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: a moment when it's an electron, a positron and nothing

621
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: in between. The way to think about a quantum mechanically,

622
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: which is the right way to think about everything microscopically,

623
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: is to think about the probabilities changing. It's like one

624
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: hundred percent chance of being a photon, and then that

625
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: probably starts to drop, and now it's like fifty percent

626
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: chance of being a photon and fifty percent chance of

627
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: being an electron, an a positron, or two other particles,

628
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: and then that probability changes and now it's like one

629
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: percent chance of still being a photon. So the probability

630
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: changes smoothly.

631
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 6: So you're saying, so there's two things that can happen

632
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 6: that can change, Like the actual electron can change, and

633
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 6: then the probability of it what it is can also change.

634
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 6: Are you saying, like in quantum mechanics, nothing is ever

635
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 6: something like nothing is there an electron, or nothing's ever

636
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 6: a proton or a photon. Things just have the probability

637
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 6: of being an electron or the probability of being a

638
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 6: photon if you probe them.

639
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And we can try to make it simpler

640
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: even just think about like what a single electron does.

641
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: We talked once in the podcast about like how an

642
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: electron changes from energy levels? Is that instantaneous when it

643
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,479
Speaker 1: absorbs a photon, Does it like jump from one an

644
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: energy level to another, or does it move from that

645
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: energy level to the other. Well, the electron can't be

646
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: in between energy levels, so how does it like get

647
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: from here to there? What happens is that the probability

648
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: for it to be in the lower energy level starts

649
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: to drop, and the probability for it to be in

650
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: the higher energy level starts to raise until it's effectively

651
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: one hundred percent.

652
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 6: Now do you know that for sure though? Or I mean,

653
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 6: isn't it technically possible for these probabilities to change instantaneously

654
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 6: because they're just math.

655
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: Right, they're just math. I love that we know this

656
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: for sure only in the sense that this is how

657
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: the theory works, and the theory so far describes everything

658
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: we've seen, so it accurately predicts it. But there's always

659
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: bits of the theory that are like behind the curtain

660
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: that we can't see directly. And right now we're talking

661
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: about stuff we can't see. We're talking about things that

662
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: are not observed. This is the calculation of what's happening

663
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: really behind the see all you can do is shoot

664
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: a photon at the electron and measure its old energy

665
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: level and it's new energy level and make predictions for that.

666
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: You can't see these probabilities themselves transitioning, that's probably what

667
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: you mean.

668
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 6: But you could potentially, right, I guess maybe that's what

669
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 6: I'm asking, is that you can't see them change, or

670
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 6: that we don't have the technology to see them change.

671
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 6: Like let's say I gave you magical powers and I

672
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 6: gave you the ability to create this measuring device that

673
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 6: has infinite time resolution and infinite size resolution, would you

674
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 6: be able to see these probability of these change or

675
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 6: would you maybe see them change suddenly.

676
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: You can't see the probabilities directly, right, the probabilities or

677
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: consequences of the wave function, which is not something physical

678
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: we can measure. All we can do is measure the

679
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: electron and measure the photon. So if you gave me

680
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: infinite experimental powers, I could look set up a huge

681
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: number of these devices and shoot photons at them simultaneously,

682
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: and just like in the previous question, I could say like, oh, look,

683
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: forty percent of the photons were absorbed or ninety percent

684
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: of them were absorbed. So that way I could sort

685
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: of measure the probabilities individual photon an electron. I can't say, oh, here,

686
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: this one has a forty percent chance there, and that

687
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: one has forty percent chance here. I can calculate those

688
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: things using the theory, but I can't actually observe those

689
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: things directly. And also crucially, in the theory, probabilities never

690
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: change suddenly. They always evolve smoothly with time. That's again

691
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: just part of the theory, and you know, the theory

692
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: could be totally wrong. We have lots of questions about

693
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics and what's going on inside this stuff that

694
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: could be totally wrong. But in our current picture, none

695
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: of this stuff happens instantaneously. But the way to think

696
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: about it is the probabilities changing smoothly, not the particles changing.

697
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 6: Instantly according to the theory though right.

698
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: According to the theory, and sometimes you can zoom out

699
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: and understand like the internal mechanisms of these particles. Like

700
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier, we used to understand a

701
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: neutron just like changing into a proton and an electron

702
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: the way we just described, like, hey, there's a probability

703
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: for it to happen. Now we know, though, about what's

704
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: going on inside the neutron, so we can talk about

705
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: what's actually happening and how long that takes. We've like

706
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: zoomed in and we can see, oh, when that happens,

707
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: that's a down cork turning into an upcork and emitting

708
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: a w boson. We've like resolved this thing, which you

709
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: should just be a point in our theories. Now we've

710
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: like zoomed in and we've seen. Oh no, it's actually

711
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: these little pieces interglocking and changing and doing their thing,

712
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: and that does take some time.

713
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 6: And how do you measure that time?

714
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 10: Then?

715
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 6: I know, in the large headron collider you have like

716
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,239
Speaker 6: a series of detectors or their sensors, and you can

717
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 6: sort of trace the path and the track and the

718
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 6: what happens to these things after they smash up? Is

719
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 6: that how you tell how long something takes or are

720
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 6: you just guessing from the theory?

721
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: Just guessing from the theory the highest level of understanding

722
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: of the universe ever achieved by humans, Jorge calls guessing

723
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: from the theory.

724
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 11: I love it.

725
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: No, in some cases this is just guessing from the theory,

726
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: like for example, the dcay we just described talks about

727
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: a w boson. A w boson lives for a very

728
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: very short amount of time ten to them, that is

729
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: twenty four seconds, which is much faster than anything we

730
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: could actually measure. So again, we have a theoretical description

731
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: of this, and we think it takes that much time

732
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: for this decay to happen tended to minus twenty four seconds,

733
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: but we could never measure that.

734
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 6: For the probability to shift from being one thing to

735
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 6: the other.

736
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.

737
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 6: But I wonder if maybe Bill's question is like, when

738
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 6: it actually happens, does it take time or is it instantaneous?

739
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 6: Because you know, like these things are wiggles in some

740
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 6: quantum field out there in the universe. Do those wiggles

741
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 6: suddenly like pop into a different configuration or do they

742
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 6: you know, morph from one to the other.

743
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: The right way to think about it is that it

744
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: always takes time. Everything takes time. Nothing in the universe

745
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: is discontinuous. It's not like a slice where it's this

746
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, it's that. Right. Everything

747
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: is smooth in the universe as far as we've discovered,

748
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: you know, and so even quantum mechanics, right, which likes

749
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: to have things be discrete and in chunks, it transforms

750
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: things smoothly through times. You look at the Shortener equation

751
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: for example, that's an equation for how wave functions change

752
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: through time the interact with stuff. And that's always smooth.

753
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: And so instead of thinking about like things popping from

754
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: one spot to another, you should think about their probabilities

755
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: as like sloshing around, and so that always takes time.

756
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 6: That always takes time, And I guess. Part of Bill's

757
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 6: question was do different things take different amounts of time?

758
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 6: And that's the answer is yes, right, some things maybe

759
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 6: or maybe not.

760
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, different things take different amounts of time. For example,

761
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: the w boson is very short lived, but if you

762
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: decay and you use a photon instead, photons can live

763
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: for a very long time, and so some of these

764
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: decays can take much longer.

765
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 6: Wait, wait, wait, I feel like maybe there's two things here,

766
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 6: and I wonder if this is what's confusing Bill enough

767
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 6: for him to ask this question, which is, you know,

768
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 6: some things take a long time to decay, right, Like

769
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 6: they have a long half life, as we talked about

770
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 6: in the first third of the episode, like maybe a

771
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 6: potasting takes a billion years for half of them to decay, right,

772
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 6: because the probability of that is so small for it

773
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 6: to decay, so that there's one that's one thing the

774
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 6: probably to decay is small. Therefore the half life is

775
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 6: really long. But then when an individual potassium atom actually decays,

776
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 6: does that take an amount of time? And it sounds

777
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 6: like you said yes, but does it take a different

778
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 6: amount of time depending on the thing.

779
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, So potassium atoms, they should all take the same

780
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: amount of time, but something else the decays in a

781
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 1: different way. If it doesn't decay with a W boson,

782
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: for example, if a decays through some other mechanism, it

783
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: can take longer or shorter.

784
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 6: What does that depend on? Then?

785
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 1: It depends like on the mass of the particle involved.

786
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: The W boson, for example, is very heavy and so

787
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't live for very long. It decays very very rapidly.

788
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: But if you decayed with another particle involved, you know,

789
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: for example, you didn't make a W boson, you made

790
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: a photon instead. Photons can live for a very long

791
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: time and so that decay process can take longer.

792
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 6: Is it possible for something to have like a short

793
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 6: half life but a long decay time, and conversely like

794
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 6: something can have a long half life but a short

795
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 6: decay time.

796
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think the two things are connected.

797
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 6: At all.

798
00:36:58,560 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: If you think, if you dug into it, there might

799
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 1: be some connections because the reason things decay quickly is

800
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: that there was a high chance of decaying at any moment,

801
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: which probably means a stronger force, which might mean you

802
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: end up using gluons and photons rather than W and

803
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: Z bosons. So there might be some sort of loose

804
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: connection there.

805
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 6: All right, well, I guess. And then the last part

806
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 6: of Bill's question was are these times unmeasurably short? Have

807
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 6: we measured actually any of these decay times or are

808
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 6: they still beyond our technological reach?

809
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: Most of these things happen much faster than we could

810
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: actually measure, So we can't measure most of these decays

811
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: like to see them halfway. For example, you can see

812
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: them before, you can see them after. But as we

813
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: talked about in a recent episode about the fastest time slice,

814
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: and we're nowhere close to being able to measure things

815
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: like down to ten of the nights twenty.

816
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 6: Four seconds, which is how fast you think these decays

817
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 6: are happening, like the actual the decay of the probability function. Yeah,

818
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 6: but what about bananas? Bananas? We can measure those pretty easy.

819
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, those things days or weeks to decay or

820
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 1: just minutes.

821
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 6: We are well within the bounds of our physical abilities.

822
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:10,919
Speaker 1: It sounds like it's improving every day.

823
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 13: Yeah.

824
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, he is getting bigger, so he's eating more minutes.

825
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: I think there's a correlation in there.

826
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 6: Actually. All right, well, thank you Bill for that great question.

827
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 6: Now let's get to our last question, and this one

828
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 6: is about black holes and whether things spiral into them

829
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 6: or whether they fall straight in sort of. We'll dig

830
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 6: into that, but first let's take another quick break.

831
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,400
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832
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,640
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833
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,720
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834
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,360
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835
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,719
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836
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837
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838
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839
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,600
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840
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,040
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841
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,840
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842
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,880
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843
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844
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845
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846
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847
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Speaker 6: All right, we're answering listener questions here today, and our

893
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 6: last question is about black holes and nic from Julian

894
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 6: from Brazil.

895
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 16: Hi, Daniel, My question is about black holes. A question

896
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 16: disc does the matter closer to the actual black hole

897
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 16: spins faster than the matter that's more distant from the center.

898
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 16: I mean, is it more like a galaxy where everything

899
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 16: spins more or less at the same speed because dark

900
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 16: matter is holding everything together? Or is it more like

901
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 16: the Solar system where mercury spins around the Sun. Why

902
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 16: faster than neptune? That's it? Big fan of the podcast,

903
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 16: The Books and Everything.

904
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 6: Thanks by all right, interesting question here today. It's got

905
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 6: my head spinning a little bit. Is he asking how

906
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 6: fast things spin as they fall in? Or do do

907
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 6: they spin faster as they fall in?

908
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think he wants to know about the rotation

909
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: speed of the accretion disk, this disc of matter that's

910
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: like on deck to fall into the black hole. He's

911
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,359
Speaker 1: wondering does it spin faster near the outside or near

912
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: the center. And he's comparing that to his understanding of

913
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: the Solar System and the galaxy and those spinning say

914
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: something he wants to know, like which one is more

915
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 1: like the accretion.

916
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 6: Disk, because I guess, you know, he mentions the Solar

917
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 6: System and the planets, like the planets around our Sun,

918
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 6: they're all have different orbital speeds, right, Like some take

919
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 6: one hundred two hundred years to go around the Sun,

920
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:15,479
Speaker 6: some take at less time.

921
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and not just orbital periods because they're going further,

922
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: but their actual like speed relative to the Sun is

923
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: different at different distances from the Sun. And that's also

924
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: true and really powerful and important for galaxies, right, understanding

925
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: how stars are moving around the center of the galaxies,

926
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: how we discovered that dark matter was a thing. So

927
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: this is really an important and interesting question.

928
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 6: Right And at the same time, like the planets are

929
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 6: spinning in place too.

930
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, everything is spinning.

931
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a nice way to spin it, all right,

932
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 6: So then I guess maybe step us through what is

933
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 6: an accretion disk of a black hole.

934
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, so an accretion disk is the stuff you see

935
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 1: sort of at the belt of the black hole. Right.

936
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: Most black holes are spinning and the stuff around them

937
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: is spinning. And that's because stuff doesn't like fall into

938
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: a black hole. You might have a mental picture of

939
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 1: a black hole is like a giant space vacuum sucking

940
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: stuff up. But black holes just have gravity the way

941
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: anything else has gravity. Like you replace the Sun with

942
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: a black hole the same mass, and the Earth's orbit

943
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't change, wouldn't get like magically sucked in. And things

944
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: can orbit something with gravity and not fall in the

945
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: way the Earth orbits the Sun and doesn't fall in

946
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 1: the way the Sun orbits the center of the galaxy

947
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 1: and doesn't fall in. You can also orbit a black

948
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: hole and not fall in. So the accretion disc is

949
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: stuff that's near the black hole. It's come in like

950
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: at an angle, so it's whizzing around the black hole

951
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: before it falls in.

952
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,280
Speaker 6: I feel like maybe we covered this in our book.

953
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 6: Frequently asked questions about the universe now available for sale.

954
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,720
Speaker 6: But is the accretion disc of a black hole continuous

955
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 6: or does it only exist in the band you know,

956
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 6: sort of like Saturn's rings. They don't go out there

957
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 6: into infinity, they sort of an extent to them.

958
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: There are definitely regions near a black hole where you

959
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: can be in a stable orbit, and regions you can't,

960
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: Like if you get close enough to a black hole,

961
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: you're definitely just going to fall in and you're done,

962
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 1: unless you're like a photon. So there's like a photon

963
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: ring where photons can orbit a black hole stabily, like

964
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: where if you shot a flashlight forwards, it would hit

965
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: you in the back of the head, for example. But

966
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: stuff with matter can't orbit there stable. It will just

967
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: fall towards the event horizon. So there's definitely like a

968
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: region near the black hole where you can't have any

969
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: stable orbits, and then regions further out where you could

970
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 1: have stable orbits.

971
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 6: So it maybe it does have an like an extent

972
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 6: like an outer limit and an inner limit.

973
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 1: It may, but there's an important difference between what's happening

974
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: in an accretion disk and what's happening with like planets

975
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: orbiting the Sun or the Sun orbiting the center of

976
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: the galaxy, and that's friction. Like in our orbit, we're

977
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 1: mostly not interacting with other stuff. We get like a

978
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 1: little bit of a tug from Jupiter now and then

979
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: and from Mars, but mostly we're alone in an orbit

980
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: and we're just orbiting the Sun, and the Sun is

981
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: orbiting the center of the galaxy, and it's mostly not

982
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: like bumping into stuff and losing energy, and so things

983
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: can be in stable orbits for billions of years.

984
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 3: Right.

985
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: The Earth has been going around the Sun for billions

986
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: of years, and the Sun has been going around the

987
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: center of the galaxy all of that time, and that's

988
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: pretty stable. But an accretion disk is hot and nasty

989
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: in a very different way. There's a lot of interactions

990
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: happening between this stuff in the accretion disk.

991
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 6: Because I think, just like in our sun, you can

992
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 6: orbit a black hole for a long time, right, like

993
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 6: you could you could be a planet with life when

994
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 6: it orbiting your black hole, and you think like, and

995
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 6: that would be normal to you, Like instead of a sun,

996
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 6: you would have a dark circle in the sky exactly.

997
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: If you found a black hole that was all by

998
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,359
Speaker 1: itself and didn't have an accretion disc, you could put

999
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: a planet there and it would orbit stably and be happy,

1000
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: no problem.

1001
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 6: Or even without an accretion disk, right, Like, if you're

1002
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 6: maybe far enough away from it.

1003
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're far enough way, then that's not a problem.

1004
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 1: But in accretion disk, this stuff everywhere, and it's all

1005
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 1: interacting and it's rubbing against itself. And that's why accretion

1006
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: disks glow because they're hot, because they're bumping into each other,

1007
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 1: they're moving fast, there's lots of energy exchange, so very

1008
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: little stuff in the accretion disc is orbiting the way

1009
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: our planet is orbiting or the Sun is orbiting the

1010
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: center of the galaxy. Mostly it's spiraling in. So the

1011
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: trajectory the dynamics of an accretion disc are very different

1012
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: from the dynamics of the Solar system or the galaxy.

1013
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: Almost nothing is moving in a circle or an ellipse.

1014
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: Almost everything is moving in a spiral as it's losing

1015
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: energy and falling in right.

1016
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 6: Well, I think you said kind of the key word there,

1017
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 6: which is friction, which is like, you know, you can

1018
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 6: orbit the Sun or a black hole forever as long

1019
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 6: as you're not losing energy. But once you start losing

1020
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 6: energy because maybe things are bumping into you or you're

1021
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 6: rubbing against other the space debris, then you're going to

1022
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:36,879
Speaker 6: start falling in.

1023
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And the key concept here is angular momentum.

1024
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: The thing that keeps the Earth in orbit around the

1025
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: Sun and the Sun in orbit around the center of

1026
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,399
Speaker 1: the galaxy is its angular momentum. That's what keeps you going.

1027
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 1: It makes a stable orbit. Things in the accretion disc

1028
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: of the black hole will bump into each other, Like

1029
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,280
Speaker 1: how do you lose angular momentum. Something has to apply

1030
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: a torque to you, and that's that other thing you

1031
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: bumped into, So you knock something further away, and you

1032
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: get knocked in closer to the accretion disk, and then

1033
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: you start to fall in, so you actually gain energy, right,

1034
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: you gain velocity. This is the thing what Julian was

1035
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: asking about. As you get closer to the black hole,

1036
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: you've lost angular momentum. But now you're pointing towards the

1037
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 1: core of the black hole. You're speeding up as you

1038
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: come in, so you're getting faster, so you actually sort

1039
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: of gain energy but lose angular momentum.

1040
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 6: So you are spinning faster as you get closer.

1041
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: You're moving fast, you have a higher velocity, but your

1042
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: angular velocity is decreasing. You're not like whizzing around the

1043
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 1: black hole as much that's what was keeping you away

1044
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: from the center, is that you were moving around it.

1045
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: You're like missing the black hole. Like the reason the

1046
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 1: Moon doesn't fall to the Earth is that it's enough

1047
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: angular velocity sort of miss the Earth even though the

1048
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 1: Earth is pulling on it. But if you lose that

1049
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: angular velocity, then the pull is just going to pull

1050
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: you straight in towards the center and it will speed

1051
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: you up as you fall in the same way that Like,

1052
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: if you drop a rock from the Moon to the

1053
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:54,919
Speaker 1: Earth and it falls in, it's going to be going

1054
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: really fast. By the time it hits the surface of

1055
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: the Earth. You're going to be going really fast if

1056
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: you bump into a rock and the accretion disk and

1057
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: head towards the black hole.

1058
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 6: What if you slip on a banana near a black hole.

1059
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: And then as you fall in, you can blame it

1060
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: on your son.

1061
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 6: I told you, yeah, totally not to cut the banana.

1062
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: Are you telling me you cut bananas? I mean bananas

1063
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: come with like a handy device. You can just peel

1064
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: them and eat them. You don't need any utensils.

1065
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 6: But yeah, but if you only want to eat half,

1066
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 6: you can cut it, because otherwise you peel half, and

1067
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 6: then you got this hanging a peal that eventually looks close.

1068
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,439
Speaker 6: But if you cut a banana then it's clean.

1069
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: I have this argument with my kids all the time.

1070
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: They like to eat apples by cutting them, and I'm like,

1071
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: you don't need to cut. You just hold in your hand.

1072
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: You have teeth already. Like, it's beautiful, it's utensil free eating.

1073
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:41,919
Speaker 17: Sure.

1074
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 6: I mean that can say that about any kind of

1075
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 6: eating dinner. You can eat spaghetti without a fork as well.

1076
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: Why not They make this argument as well. They make

1077
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:52,839
Speaker 1: this argument as.

1078
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 6: Well, like, wow, dinner time must be really entertaining at

1079
00:49:56,239 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 6: your house facing a beginning. But anyways, black holes sort

1080
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 6: of sounds like you're saying that if you're far away

1081
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 6: from the black hole and you start to fall in,

1082
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 6: maybe you will start to spin faster. Right because the

1083
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 6: stuff around in the accretioning thissk near the black hole,

1084
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 6: that stuff is glowing and getting intense because it is

1085
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 6: spinning so fast. Are you saying then that once you

1086
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 6: fall into the black hole, then you slow down.

1087
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: Well, I think that you're not spinning faster as you

1088
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 1: fall into the black hole. You're moving faster, So it's

1089
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: a little bit of a nuance there between velocity and

1090
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: angular velocity. Right, you're moving faster towards the center of

1091
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,439
Speaker 1: the black hole, but your angle relative to the black

1092
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: hole is not changing anymore, and so you lost angler momentum.

1093
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 1: You definitely have higher velocity, and that's why, as you say,

1094
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: things glow right, These things are moving very very fast

1095
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: and fast moving objects, and they have electric charge. They

1096
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: will emit photons, and that's why the accretion disc of

1097
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: black holes can be very very bright. That's why we

1098
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: can see them that picture of the black hole that's

1099
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: so famous, Right, it's a ring around this black surface.

1100
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 1: It's the accretion disc, is what we're seeing. It's those

1101
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: high speed particles as they fall in. Now, what happens

1102
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: once you pass the event horizon? Are you even going faster?

1103
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 1: That's a question for quantum gravity. General relativity says depends

1104
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: on the observer. If you're far away, then you'll never

1105
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: actually see that person cross the event horizon because time

1106
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: slows down. If you're that actual particle, you can measure

1107
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: your velocity as you accelerate towards the singularity.

1108
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 6: But I think we covered this in our book. Frequently

1109
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 6: asked questions about the universe now for soyl for sale. Yes,

1110
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 6: that the accretion disc is not sort of continuous down

1111
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 6: to the black hole or even to the event horizon,

1112
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 6: Like there's a gap right between the event horizon or

1113
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 6: at least the shadow of the black hole and this

1114
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 6: glowing disc.

1115
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, there's a gap where you can't have a

1116
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: stable orbit, but you could still have stuff falling in actively. Right,

1117
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 1: So below, for example, the Photon ring, you can't have

1118
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: anything orbiting that's outside the event horizon, but inside the

1119
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 1: Photon ring you can't have anything orbiting stably there, but

1120
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: you can still have stuff there in actively and currently

1121
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 1: then you could still see stuff there, so it doesn't

1122
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: have to be empty.

1123
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 6: There's stuff, but there is a little bit of a

1124
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 6: gap there, right though.

1125
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 1: It depends on the black hole, right if it's not

1126
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 1: actively feeding, then yes, there will definitely be a gap there,

1127
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: and you could imagine stable stuff orbiting further out from

1128
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: the Photon ring. But you know, if you dump like

1129
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: a whole space ship full of gravy, for example, then

1130
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: you can fill up that whole area with gravy particles briefly,

1131
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 1: right then they're all going to fall in. They can't

1132
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: stay stabily there in that gap.

1133
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 6: Now, when you eat gravy in your house, do you

1134
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 6: use utensils to We.

1135
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: Use a gravy boat and we just like pour it

1136
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: all over the table.

1137
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, oh you believe in the gravy boat. Okay,

1138
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 6: I'm just trying to find out where your line is

1139
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 6: for stability.

1140
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: Super soaker is filled with gravy.

1141
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 6: Gravy super soaker.

1142
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just opened my mouth and the kids just

1143
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 1: shoot the gravy in.

1144
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 11: You know.

1145
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 6: That sounds like a lot more trouble than a spoon,

1146
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 6: don't you, Because then you have to clean up. You

1147
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 6: have to clean up the super soaker.

1148
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well you got the fire hose afterwards. You know

1149
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: it all cleans up pretty well.

1150
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:57,720
Speaker 14: Tool.

1151
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 6: That's another tool you need just to clean a super

1152
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 6: so Did you.

1153
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: Hear about that lady who made her entire kitchen the

1154
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: inside of a washing machine so she could just wash

1155
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 1: the whole kitchen but the press of a button.

1156
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 6: I have not heard of this. Now, she have a

1157
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 6: great idea. Isn't that like those public restrooms and parks

1158
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 6: do they have in some cities where did you like

1159
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 6: you close the door and then it turns into a

1160
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 6: washing machine in there.

1161
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, great idea, and anybody with toddlers understands why

1162
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 1: that's a good idea.

1163
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 6: Just make your whole house that way.

1164
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. It's just like make the whole plane out

1165
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: of the black box, right.

1166
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, it'll clean itself up like a black hole unless

1167
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 6: you clog it with too many, too much gravy.

1168
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: But people are really interested in studying the dynamics of

1169
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: accretion disks because it tells us something about what's happening there. Like,

1170
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: you can learn a lot about what's going on just

1171
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: by looking at the velocity of stuff. Like one of

1172
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: the ways that we know black holes exist is by

1173
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 1: looking at stars orbiting them and seeing their velocity. We

1174
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 1: can use that to measure the mass of the black hole.

1175
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 1: Like the black hole is the center of our galaxy.

1176
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: It is a recent Nobel prize from studying the motion

1177
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: of st nearby that black hole. Their velocity tells us

1178
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: the mass. It's this incredibly powerful probe. And the same

1179
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 1: way that like, looking at the velocity of stars in

1180
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: the galaxy told us how much mass there was because

1181
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 1: there had to be masks to hold in all those

1182
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:17,399
Speaker 1: high speed stars. And so it's a really powerful way

1183
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: to see things that you can't see directly.

1184
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 6: All right, well, great question, thank you, Julian, And I

1185
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 6: guess the basic answer for Julian is that, yeah, things

1186
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,879
Speaker 6: kind of spin at different speeds around a black hole,

1187
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 6: just like they do around the Solar system.

1188
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, just like they do around the Solar system. Like

1189
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: Mercury is going much faster than Earth, which is going

1190
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: much faster than Saturn, which is going much faster than Neptune,

1191
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: and so in acretion disc is a little bit more

1192
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: like that, though there's a lot more bumping and grinding

1193
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: going on in the accretion disk than in the Solar system.

1194
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 6: Oh, you make it sound very sexy there, but it

1195
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 6: sort of depends also on the mass, right, Like something

1196
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 6: can be close but moving slow, but something could be

1197
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 6: far and moving fast.

1198
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: There's going to be a lot of variation because in

1199
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 1: deccretion disc is a lot of chaos in it. But

1200
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: in general, things will definitely be faster closer to the

1201
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,800
Speaker 1: black hole because they've fallen in that gravity potential.

1202
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 6: But within the increasing this there might be some things

1203
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 6: moving faster than others. Right yeah, all right, Well three

1204
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 6: great questions, two of them about banana radiation. Boy I

1205
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 6: wonder if that decay ratio is that ratio is going

1206
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 6: to be increasing over time. We're gonna hit one hundred

1207
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 6: percent full life banana topics on our listener questions.

1208
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: Tune in find out next time.

1209
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 6: I guess that could be easily hagged, like you just

1210
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 6: have to coordinate with a couple of your friends, let's

1211
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 6: say six friends, and then just have you all ask

1212
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 6: a banana question at the same time. And then technically,

1213
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 6: because of Daniel's your rules, you would have to have

1214
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 6: a full banana episode.

1215
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:40,879
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, let's go for it.

1216
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 6: Oh man, that would be bananas.

1217
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 10: All right.

1218
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 6: Well, thanks again everyone who asked the question. We hope

1219
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:50,399
Speaker 6: you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us. See you next time.

1220
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: For more science and curiosity, come find us on social

1221
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: media where we answer questions and post videos. We're on Twitter, Discord, Instant,

1222
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: and now TikTok. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel

1223
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio.

1224
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1225
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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. When you

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