1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: You putting a lot of pressure on kids. Just let 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: the kid do. 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 2: Let them be a ten year old. I mean, yeah, 4 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 2: social media, I get it, there's a lot of opportunities 5 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 2: that come off of that. But truly the parents using 6 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: their kids as the asset. Brands, you know, they'll a 7 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 2: lot of time use the athletes as assets. So now 8 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 2: this kid is an asset to not only brands but 9 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 2: also his own parents and all the pressures on them 10 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 2: to keep going and rising. 11 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: I think we're gonna see a lot of problems out 12 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: of that. This is the. 13 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 3: Reform Sports Project, a podcast about restoring healthy balance and 14 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 3: perspective in all areas of sports through education and advocacy. Hi, 15 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 3: this is Nick going a core from the Reform Sports Podcast. Today, 16 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 3: I'm speaking with Andrew Petcash, sports entrepreneur, creator, writer, and 17 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 3: podcast host. A former Division one basketball player at Boston University. 18 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 3: Andrew founded Profluence in twenty twenty one to share insights 19 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 3: and analysis on the business of athletes, sports, and name, 20 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 3: image and likeness. Andrew and I discussed the pros and 21 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 3: cons of NIL, why education is crucial and making informed 22 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 3: decisions regarding recruiting and NIL, and the rise of the 23 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 3: entertainment youth athlete got another phenomenal guest. Super pumped to 24 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 3: have him. We connected through social media. I love his work. 25 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 3: He's covering a space that I think a lot of 26 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 3: the audience is very familiar with. I also think it's 27 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 3: something that a lot of people, you know, they see 28 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 3: the headlines, they read the articles. It's becoming kind of 29 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 3: a new phenomenon. But it's coming on strong, coming on fast, 30 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 3: and it's impacting, you know, sports at every level. I'm 31 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 3: really pumped to dig in with them. Former Division one 32 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 3: basketball player. I'll let him kind of dig into his 33 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 3: background here, but my man, Andrew pet Cash Andrew, thanks 34 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 3: so much for hopping on brow Nick. 35 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: Super excited to do this one. Man. 36 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: I know we've been sitting on the sidelines with this, 37 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: so excited to you know, just open up this conversation 38 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 2: we have in private to. 39 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: The public and you know, drop some knowledge on everyone. Dude. 40 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 3: Well, I love your work. We connected obviously on social 41 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 3: as I said, but you know, you're covering the business 42 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 3: of sports, the business of professional all the way down 43 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 3: to youth and everything in all these stories you're putting 44 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 3: out your blogs and your articles, But what really is 45 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: catching my attention a lot is your coverage of NIL. 46 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 3: All right, So before we get into that, can you 47 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 3: just give everyone a brief little synopsis of your athletic 48 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 3: background and then how you got into covering the business 49 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 3: of sports and NIL in particular. 50 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, so really starts three years ago with a huge 51 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: decision all around at NIL. And I was I just 52 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 2: finished my senior year at Boston University, where as you mentioned, 53 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: I played basketball, and I could either come back for 54 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 2: a fifth year, I could go play in Europe, or 55 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 2: I could be done and kind of jump right into. 56 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: The business world. And I looked at NIL as the. 57 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: Greatest opportunity for me to go make an impact because 58 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: I saw that no one knows what's coming, No one 59 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 2: knows how much of an impact this is going to happen. 60 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 2: I always say this to everyone. NIL doesn't just impact 61 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: college sports. It impacts all of sports. We've seen really 62 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: talented professionals drop down into the college ranks to try 63 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 2: to build an NIL. We've seen twelve year old six 64 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: year old's son NIL deals. So it now impacts everything. 65 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 2: And so when I looked at the space, like I said, 66 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: no one's doing it, No one has an experience right 67 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 2: from an athlete at a finance and real estate background, 68 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: and I'm like, you're gonna go and try to build. 69 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: I had no clue I was doing. 70 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: Started building media, then build a whole consulting out of it, 71 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 2: and now got some other stuff down the line that 72 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 2: I don't know if we may or may not get into. 73 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: But the whole. 74 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: Basis of it has been athletes are at the center 75 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: of sports, and their name, image and likeness has always 76 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 2: reigned supreme. But now from every age, from six years 77 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: old or even younger to all the way till the 78 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: day you hang up your cleats, you're able to monetize 79 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: who you are, and that's you as an athlete. And 80 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: that's that's why I wanted to go and build, and 81 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: I decided to do it instead of coming back and 82 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 2: playing one more year. So yeah, I mean NIL has 83 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 2: impacted me in every way. 84 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: I'm in a huge life decision all around it as well. 85 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: So when I first think I'm older than you, I'm 86 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 3: forty three. But when I think about NIL, I go 87 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 3: back to, you know, the ESPN thirty for thirties when 88 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 3: they cover you know, when I was growing up, they 89 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 3: covered the Fab five, and I remember being you know, nine, ten, 90 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 3: eleven years old, twelve years old, whatever, and like the 91 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 3: Fab five had their own style, of their own image, 92 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 3: and I was buying the black Nike socks and I 93 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 3: wanted the baggy shorts, right, well, it was just like 94 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 3: they were trend setters in the fast forward, you know, 95 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 3: you look at like video games having the cover. I 96 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 3: think it was Ed O'Bannon or one of the old 97 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 3: Bannon brothers who started the lawsuit if I'm not mistaken 98 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 3: with with basically looking for comp and we're talking about 99 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 3: back to the mid nineties. This has been going on 100 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 3: for you know, for decades as far as college athletes 101 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 3: are non professional athletes having their name, image, and likeness 102 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 3: used for profit by the institutions and organizations that were 103 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 3: you know, and the trade off was what we give 104 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 3: you full scholarships. So talk about what exactly is nil 105 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 3: name image likeness. 106 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 2: So at its core, right, it's just your name, image 107 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: and likeness. It's who you are. It's the name on 108 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 2: the back of the jersey. 109 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: Right. 110 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: So it's for me, it's pet cash on the back 111 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 2: of the jersey, and it's me being able to monetize that. 112 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 2: But the thing is you can't use the front of 113 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 2: the jersey most of the time, right, so you can't 114 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 2: be like, hey, Boston University, no, you're selling Andrew pet cash. 115 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 2: And as you mentioned, this was completely untouched. It was 116 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: illegal even though. 117 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 3: It was illegal, right, I mean, the NCAA out. 118 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: Legal like you couldn't do anything. It was brown paper bags. 119 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 2: You know, everyone knows the stories SMU in the seventies, 120 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: I mean, Reggie Bush, Drell Power. 121 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: I mean, it's happening. Guys have got and girls have 122 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: got paid for a long time. 123 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 2: And really twenty twenty one in July when it went live, 124 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 2: you know, it was like, Okay, now everything in the dark. 125 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: Is coming to light. 126 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 2: But the thing is, there have been a lot of 127 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 2: unintended consequences and a lot of things that people didn't 128 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 2: quite think of. And that's kind of why we sit 129 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: here today. And people were like, oh, it's the wild 130 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: wild West. But I always challenge that and say, is 131 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 2: it really the wild wild West? Coaches leave and take 132 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: seven eight nine million dollars just after one year, Tobin 133 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 2: Anderson had gone from FDU after a run. 134 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: Anything about that. 135 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 2: But now that players are getting paid, everyone has this like, 136 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 2: you know, distorted perception of what NIL is, and you know, 137 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: it's really just you being able to make money because 138 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: of who you are, and that all stems really from 139 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: being an athlete. And as we all know, athletes would 140 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 2: call them localized superstars. Everyone in their hometown knows who 141 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 2: they are. Then they get to college, and especially if 142 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 2: you're say in Alabama, they don't have any professional teams. 143 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 2: So you're the star now of that area. You are 144 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: the person kids look up to, and so you can 145 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 2: make money from social media, from you know, going to 146 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: car dealerships, to really where it gets interesting, and I'm 147 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: sure we'll start touching on is really these collectives that 148 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: have popped up, these third parties and kind of found 149 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 2: a loophole of how to pay athletes to come to 150 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 2: their school and pay to play schemes which are still 151 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 2: technically illegal under an IL guidelines. 152 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 3: So I'm glad you brought that up because I want 153 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 3: to get into the used as of it, how it's 154 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 3: impacting that. However, if I'm not mistaken, you can probably 155 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 3: speak to this definitively. But I'm almost certain that you 156 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 3: can't use NIL as a recruiting tool, right, I mean, 157 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 3: I don't think you can but can you clarify that, 158 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 3: I mean, what are the rules and regulations regarding college 159 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: recruiting in NL, Like, can I say I got a 160 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 3: full scholarship plus a million dollar deal for you? 161 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: Like? 162 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 3: Is that legal? 163 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: Yeah? 164 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: So let me take a step back first. And so 165 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 2: there's really a lot of me. There's the major players 166 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 2: in this space are really lawyers, agents, and everyone in 167 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: the athletic department and then collectives. 168 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: And where I say it's always. 169 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: Been good for me from an NIL standpoint is I'm 170 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: not any of those not tied by my pockets aren't 171 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: filled by anyone in the space. So I can always 172 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: get very unbiased and unleveraged opinions and thoughts, and I 173 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 2: see it all, but I see it from the. 174 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: Third party, the birds I view. 175 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 2: And the one thing that's been interesting about this whole 176 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 2: space is you talk to a lot of people in 177 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 2: the state is happening, No pay to. 178 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: Play isn't going on. 179 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 2: But a lot of the time it is to protect, 180 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: you know, whatever their interests are. If they're a lawyer, 181 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 2: you know, they don't want that to seem like that's happening. 182 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: Or if you're an agent, you want to be like, oh, 183 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: you're the shady agent. 184 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: But I'll give you an example to kind of answer 185 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 2: your question. So last year, there's a Big ten player 186 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: and the collective promises him a million dollars to transfer 187 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: to their school. And so the kid, of course, you know, 188 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,679 Speaker 2: works with his agent and he's at a top, top 189 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: top agency, like a three letter that represents all the pros. 190 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 2: So it's like, this kid is going to get his 191 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 2: a million dollars. 192 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: To go here. I heard the other day. 193 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 2: That he only received and I said, only you know, 194 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 2: with its relative he only received like one hundred and 195 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 2: fifty thousand. 196 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: Of that a million. He's not going to get it. 197 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: He didn't have a great year. Now, his pro stalks. 198 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: Way down and he's probably going to have to come 199 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: back for a fifth year, and you know he's not 200 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 2: going to be able to go somewhere else and get more. 201 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: And but the point. 202 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 2: Being is like there's pay to play, but there's no 203 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 2: regulations around it, and so people are using it for recruiting. 204 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: These collectives have popped up to form as like their 205 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 2: own little companies, and they try to say, hey, we're 206 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: paying the athlete to come promote our charity or to 207 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 2: come promote our company or to come to events. But 208 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: it's really just deploy to get the athletes paid. 209 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: And so these collectives. 210 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: Have teamed up mostly behind the scenes with coaches, and 211 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: the coach will be like, hey, we want these players, 212 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 2: you know what can we get them paid? And it's 213 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: all just made up fairy land numbers. I mean you'll 214 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 2: see crazy stuff, all two million for this kid. We 215 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 2: saw Tennessee they were saying eight million. I mean, most 216 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: of it's all made up. So the numbers are way 217 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 2: lower than people think, but it is one hundred percent 218 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 2: in every conversation, especially at the high level D one 219 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 2: schools pay to play, and that conversation is going to 220 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: come up. I mean, my brother's transferring right now. 221 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 1: For his fifth theory. 222 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: He plays division in basketball, and those are all the 223 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 2: conversations that the school is currently at, and you know, 224 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: other people reaching out to us saying, hey, if he 225 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 2: comes to this school, you know we think we could 226 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 2: get X y Z. So it's just a part of 227 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 2: college recurring now. And I'm gonna be interested to see 228 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 2: what the NCAA does with around the regulations of pay 229 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 2: to play. 230 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: I think it's hard to regulate, but we'll see. 231 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 3: So how does that because I mean I've talked to 232 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 3: I mean, my oldest is a senior in high school. 233 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 3: None of my kids are being approached about NIL deals. 234 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 3: They are certainly not at that level. But I've talked 235 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 3: to kids or parents whose kids are as young as 236 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 3: in middle school, and I know you mentioned even younger 237 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 3: than that. I mean, this is definitely impacting, and a 238 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 3: lot of it has to do if I'm not mistaken. 239 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 3: I mean, like, how is the compensation? Can you even 240 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 3: speak to how the comp is? If I'm not mistaken. 241 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 3: I'll often see kids who say, hey, I got an 242 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 3: NIL deal. Use code such and such for twenty percent off, 243 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 3: and I would assume that there's probably a commission or 244 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 3: whatever for using that code. Is that the extent of 245 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 3: it at the high school, middle school type ranks or 246 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 3: how prevalent do you see, you know, NIL going down 247 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 3: to those levels. 248 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question. 249 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's a lot of different ways to 250 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 2: kind of answer this and explore this, but I'll kind 251 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 2: of pick two and the first one being there's also 252 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 2: some and I'm just gonna call it, like there's some 253 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 2: baloney going on in the space where there's like parents 254 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 2: that maybe they work at a company or you know, 255 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: they have some tie and they like want to get 256 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 2: their kids more publicity or getting have social media followers, 257 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 2: so they like set up these or maybe one of 258 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 2: their good friends works out of you know, a bigger company. 259 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 2: They'll set up these kind of ploy nil deals for 260 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 2: younger athletes to try to ignite them into more. So 261 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 2: I've seen that a lot, and that's obviously a problem. 262 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 2: I've even seen actual parents like go to companies and 263 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: say like, hey, we'll buy your product and we'll promote 264 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 2: it on social media, but can you make it look 265 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 2: like we have. 266 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: Nil deals to try to spur more. So, like there's 267 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: that that I don't like. That has definitely been going on. 268 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: But really what's happening most of the time is mostly 269 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 2: these agents, to be honest, but sometimes even big brands 270 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 2: like Adidas, Nike, Ender Armour, the shoes, you know, all 271 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 2: the companies that are like apparel brands, they'll come and 272 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 2: they'll they'll be looking and they want to talk to 273 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 2: all their people. 274 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: And the prayers and be like who could be the 275 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: next superstar? 276 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 2: And they want to get that kid when he's ten, 277 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 2: not when he's eighteen, not when he's twenty two, because 278 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: imagine you could get Lebron James or you could get 279 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: Mike Trout when they were ten years old. I mean, 280 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 2: from an early age, you can often tell who the 281 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 2: next superstars are going to be. You have a pretty 282 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: good idea, and they're trying to get to them early 283 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: because earlier you get to them, the longer you can 284 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: keep them, the more value you can extract out of them. 285 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: These athletes are assets at the end of the day 286 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 2: for these brands. 287 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: Just call them a spat of spate. 288 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 2: And so the push to go younger is to find 289 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: the next superstars and be a Nike athlete and a 290 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 2: Didas athlete when they're fourteen years old and not have 291 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 2: to compete when they're eighteen years old when the. 292 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: Money's way higher. 293 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: So that's that's honestly where a lot of it comes 294 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: from that I've seen, is just trying to get kids 295 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 2: at their youngest age and then keep them for life. 296 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 3: Early id man, early identification. And you're seeing that, you know, 297 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 3: in recruiting, and it's funny in the college baseball landscape. 298 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 3: Early recruiting is you know, it's so it's so prevalent, 299 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 3: I mean and you know, there's companies out there who 300 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 3: are you know, broadcasting on their social media platforms like, Hey, 301 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 3: we're going live on Thursday for so and so, who's 302 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,079 Speaker 3: a twenty twenty seven his college commitment, And it's like, 303 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,479 Speaker 3: wait a minute, twenty twenty seven. That kid's in eighth grade, 304 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 3: you know, and come to find out, in the sport 305 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 3: of baseball, if a kid commits, there's nothing binding to that, right, 306 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 3: But what happens is their process starts. So if my 307 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 3: eighth grade son or daughter commits to a school posting 308 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 3: on social media, what that basically means is no other 309 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 3: schools are really going to pursue them. Now, the upside 310 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 3: for the university or the college that that kid commits 311 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 3: to is, you know, at the end of the day, 312 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 3: if they pan out, that scholarship will be there, right, meaning, 313 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 3: if that kid develops on the trajectory that they believe 314 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 3: he will, that scholarship will be there. If he doesn't, 315 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 3: there's nothing binding, so either party can walk away at 316 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 3: any time. So to your point, it's almost like a 317 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 3: big smoke show. How can that impact? I mean, you know, 318 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 3: I can just think of it as a parent. You're 319 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 3: almost like using your kids as a commodity, like that's 320 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 3: got to really in a way almost kind of flirt 321 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 3: with with their minds. I mean, can you speak on 322 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 3: that at all or have you any stories about the 323 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 3: mental health aspect of that. 324 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where I was kind of going, Like social media. 325 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: First off, we all know that that has a lot 326 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 2: of implications. That's created a lot of problems. And now 327 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 2: you put it to an athlete that's a high performer 328 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 2: and maybe they're hyped up when. 329 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: They're ten years old. 330 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 2: And there's this kid and I urge everyone to kind 331 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: of go check them out because you'll see what I'm 332 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: talking about more here. But his name's Baby Gronk. That's 333 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 2: what his dad labels him as. And actually one of 334 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 2: the brands I was helping, they wanted to like sign 335 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 2: him to an NIL deal and talk. So I met 336 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: and it's like the father, you know, thinks this kid 337 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 2: is legit gonna be the next Rob Gronkowski in the NFL. 338 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 2: And so this kid's like ten or eight. I'm he's 339 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: super young and plays football and it's like putting all 340 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 2: this pressure on him. But he has a huge social 341 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 2: media fill four hundred thousand. He's meeting with NFL players 342 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: going to these camps, meeting sports personalities, and my whole 343 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 2: thing is, well, really, who's pocketing a lot of that money? 344 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 2: The parent, But really all the pressure is on the 345 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: kid now because now he's kind of peeking or possibly 346 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 2: you know, at his top when he's twelve years old 347 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 2: or fourteen, and then if he never does go and 348 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 2: they do like fake commitment offers, they've done like a 349 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 2: fake organ commitment or all baby gronks going to University 350 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 2: of Miami and they or he signs a huge deal, 351 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 2: and it's like great social. 352 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: Media, it's great entertainment. 353 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 2: But the problem is it's all you know, it's all 354 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 2: just a show, like you said, And so now all 355 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 2: the pressure's on this kid. And so when this kid's 356 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 2: actually eighteen and let's say he has no offers, then 357 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: what then what happens? Right, that's a very major problem 358 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: that I see that I just I don't like, and 359 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 2: I think it's bad. I think you're putting a lot 360 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 2: of pressure on kids. Just let the kid be, let 361 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: him be a ten year old, let him go play 362 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 2: five sports. Don't force them into football, don't. I mean, Yeah, 363 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: the social media, I get, it's cool. There's all a 364 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: lot of opportunities that come off of that. But truly, 365 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 2: the parents, like you said, using their kids as the asset, 366 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: whereas brands, you know, they'll a lot of time use 367 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 2: the athletes as assets. So now this kid is an 368 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 2: asset to not only brands but also his own parents 369 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: and all the pressures on them to keep going and 370 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 2: rising and rising and rising. I think we're gonna see 371 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 2: a lot of problems out of that, and I call 372 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 2: this kind of the rise of. 373 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: The entertainment athlete. 374 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 2: Or we're also gonna see, for example, I see a 375 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 2: lot in basketball, and Nick, I know you're big in 376 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 2: like baseball, wrestling. I wish I could speak a little 377 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 2: bit more on this, but I'm gonna go basketball just 378 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: because I'm comfortable with it. But there's kids that when 379 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 2: they're sixteen years old, maybe they're good, but they're five seven, 380 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 2: five eight, and they're probably not gonna grow and they're 381 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 2: not gonna be maybe a high level basketball player. But 382 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 2: what they can do is still put on highlight tapes 383 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: and do all kinds of crazy moves and just become 384 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 2: that entertainer and then leverage social media. But the problem 385 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 2: is that hurts the game of basketball that hurts their 386 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: teammates around them, and yet they may make some money 387 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 2: because they grow a huge social media falling, but they're 388 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 2: really just an entertainment athlete. They're not a true athletes 389 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 2: trying to be the best they can be. And this 390 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 2: is why I firmly believe, especially in basketball, we're going 391 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 2: to see more and more and more European players. That's 392 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 2: why we already have Doncheits and Jokic and bid are 393 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 2: some of the probably three of the five best players 394 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: in the league right now because they're going to be 395 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 2: taught the fundamentals and they're not worried about all this 396 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: entertainment and social media stuff, and you can apply that 397 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 2: across all sports. And the rise of this like entertainment 398 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 2: youth athlete, I think is going to cause major problems. 399 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 3: When we come back, Andrew and I discussed the spotlight 400 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 3: effect of social media and why it's important for kids 401 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 3: to think about their future beyond college athletics. Welcome back 402 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 3: where we left off. Andrew and I were about to 403 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 3: talk about why kids should prioritize their athletic development over 404 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 3: potential nil deals. As you were talking, it made me 405 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 3: think about and you may be too young. But you 406 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 3: may know the story of Todd Marinovich. He was the quarterback. 407 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 3: There was a thirty for thirty ESPN thirty for thirty 408 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 3: I believe done on him and Todd Morenovitch was you know, 409 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 3: he was on the cover of Sports Illustrated if I'm 410 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 3: not mistaken when he was as young as like ten 411 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 3: to eleven years old. His dad was a strength and 412 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 3: conditioning coach in the NFL. And from the time the 413 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 3: kid was like two, I mean this is going back 414 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 3: to the eighties. I mean it was like built up 415 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 3: this kid was. I mean it was like he was 416 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 3: in the public. I mean really, as you were talking, 417 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 3: I'm like, got lee. Todd Morenovitch was living this forty 418 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 3: years ago and it screwed him up. Now he became very, 419 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 3: very talented. He did end up going to the NFL. 420 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 3: He also had major, major issues, major issues with his father, 421 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 3: and I encourage everyone to go watch the story of 422 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 3: Todd Morenovitch from mental health standpoint, had run into with 423 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 3: the law. I mean, he was someone who was literally 424 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 3: doing all these ice things and lifting things, all these 425 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 3: different state of the art things when he was a teenager. 426 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,719 Speaker 3: Totally missed his childhood and he talks about it how 427 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 3: it impacted him, and then when he finally got to 428 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 3: the NFL, even though he was projected to be potentially 429 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 3: one of the greatest ever, it was almost like I 430 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,479 Speaker 3: made it here, I'm done, Like I can finally get 431 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 3: this gorilla off my back. He was so worn out, 432 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 3: and that was a one off story and it became 433 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 3: such a national news because it was so unique back then. 434 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 3: But I feel like it's so prevalent today and it's 435 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 3: become this situation where it's almost like if you don't 436 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 3: do that, or I don't maybe not not that extreme, 437 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 3: but if you're not like all in with all this stuff, 438 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 3: you know, you're not committed to helping your can be 439 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 3: the best when in actuality, the mental component of it 440 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 3: is so powerful. Can you talk about intrinsic versus extrinsic 441 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 3: motivation and you're an athlete, I mean doing something to 442 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 3: please someone else is probably not the best way to 443 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 3: get the most from your own performance. 444 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just the last point on the Todds story, 445 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 2: that's a great example. And now, like you said, social 446 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,719 Speaker 2: media has almost created this spotlight effect. 447 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: So now this is at scale, right. 448 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 2: So there's hundreds of Todds in every sport and it's 449 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: boosted by their parents and social media, so it's interesting. 450 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 2: And then yeah, I mean intrinsically as an athlete, like 451 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 2: for me, it was always like I know on the best, 452 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 2: I know what level I can get to, and honestly 453 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 2: one of my faults probably I you know, sit back 454 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 2: and reflect on this even but intrinsically, like my goal 455 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 2: was always to be Division one basketball player, and I 456 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 2: got that and had a good career, but it was 457 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 2: never really past that, right, So to me it was 458 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 2: like my one of my last goals was. 459 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: To make March Madness Enciate Tournament. We did it. 460 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 2: You know, the whole twenty twenty years it got canceled, 461 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 2: so you know, the only year gets canceled. 462 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: We made it my last goal, but uh it sucks. 463 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 3: Yeah it was. 464 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 2: It was awful, But intrinsically for me, it was like 465 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 2: proving to myself that I know how good I am. 466 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: I know I can compete at this level. 467 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: And I also, you know, I knew I wanted a 468 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 2: good academic school, so I got everything I wanted. So 469 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 2: intrinsically like I achieved that, but I also when I 470 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 2: sit back extrinsically. 471 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: I always looked at it because my. 472 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 2: Senior year we had no fans, and I really struggled 473 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 2: that year, and I just had no motivation. 474 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: I didn't really like the sport anymore. 475 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 2: And I realized, like a lot of my motivation wasn't 476 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 2: as much internal as it should have been. I played 477 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 2: for the fans a lot, and I liked, you know, 478 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 2: people coming up to me and tell me good game, 479 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 2: and I liked the interviews and I liked all that stuff. 480 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 2: And I realized, like the reason there was two reasons 481 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 2: I probably couldn't have. I mean, there's other factors, right, 482 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 2: I mean, SiGe, strength, athleticism, all that, but really, like 483 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 2: I think you can do almost anything you put your 484 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 2: mind to. For me, it was I didn't have a 485 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 2: high enough goal to go to the NBA. I should 486 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 2: have been thinking more of that than just d one 487 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 2: if I really wanted to, And then I shouldn't have 488 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 2: had such an extrinsic value on everything. I shouldn't have 489 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 2: always been playing for the fans. 490 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: I shouldn't have liked that so. 491 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 2: Much, because if I really wanted to be the best 492 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 2: I could, it wouldn't matter if there was eighteen thousand 493 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 2: people in the gym, or there was twenty people, And 494 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 2: so I think a lot of people are more focused 495 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 2: on the extratrimsic now and having the big social media 496 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 2: and having. 497 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: The big game and everyone telling them how great they are, and. 498 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 2: You know, going and doing your workouts and filming and 499 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 2: be like, oh, look, I spotted three hundred pounds a 500 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 2: day or bench three hundred whatever it is. But intrinsically, 501 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 2: you got to like look at yourself. 502 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: In the mir and be like, what am I really doing? 503 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: Am I trying to become my higher self? 504 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 2: And I saw this on social media the other day, 505 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 2: and it's basically saying like suffering is good in the 506 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 2: sense like if it was easy, there'd be no value 507 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 2: to it. 508 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: And they were talking more about it like a six 509 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: pack or something, but I was. 510 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 2: Like, it's true, Like it's really hard to play college 511 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 2: sports and you really have to want it and you 512 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 2: have to go get it. And then once you're there, though, 513 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 2: to me, like there should be another goal after it. 514 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 2: Because I see a lot of kids and I went 515 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 2: through it, and a lot of when I was like 516 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 2: a freshman, I saw the seniors really go through it. 517 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 2: They were just done, like there was nothing after that, 518 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 2: and it's funny that's kind of bringing it back full 519 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 2: circle to this odd story. 520 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: I think that's what happened. 521 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 2: And so you always have to be thinking a little 522 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 2: bit ahead to motivate yourself internally and then externally. You 523 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 2: kind of got to turn that noise off and you 524 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 2: can play it and you can use. 525 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: It to your factor. At the end of the day, 526 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: it all comes down to you versus you. 527 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 3: We recently released a blog talking about we're not going 528 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 3: back to the good old days. Dude, I'm forty, Like 529 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 3: I said, I'm forty three years old. You know, my 530 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 3: youth sports experience took place in the late eighties early nineties, 531 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 3: and you know, we're not going back there. Like just 532 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 3: don't get a ball and go in the could the 533 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 3: sack every day. I mean some do, but it's not like, 534 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,439 Speaker 3: you know, and hey, let's go play tennis ball baseball 535 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 3: at the time, and like, yeah, we could preach that, 536 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 3: but it's just not that we don't go backwards, Like 537 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 3: it just doesn't happen as much, you know, not as 538 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 3: many kids are getting a basketball and going to the 539 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 3: park and run in full court, you know, for four 540 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 3: hours in a day. There's so many other venues. Everything's 541 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 3: organized and structured, so as parents, as adults, as those 542 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 3: who are involved in sports who are trying to put 543 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 3: messages out there to listen. One of the biggest goals 544 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 3: that might even be the biggest goal of the Reformed 545 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 3: Sports Project is to help parents and kids and people 546 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 3: make the best informed decisions, right informed decisions. I'm not 547 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 3: trying to help you make the decision. We're trying to 548 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 3: help you make. So, hey, here's the pros, here's the cons. 549 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 3: This way, you see a path, you see the downside, 550 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 3: you see the potential upside, whatever it is, and now 551 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 3: you can have the information to navigate that. 552 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: Right. 553 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 3: It's like making any decision, you make a checklist, like 554 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 3: rather than oh, I'm getting hyped into this one or 555 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 3: I'm getting hyped into that one. Like, make the best 556 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 3: informed decision now that you see. Because you cover the 557 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 3: business of sports, you're covering the things that are happening, 558 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 3: the technological advances in youth sports. What are things that 559 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 3: parents should be on the lookout for with this nil 560 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 3: with people who maybe in their corner, if their kids 561 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 3: a fairly good athlete, how should they prepare themselves and 562 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 3: help navigate it so that it stays, you know, with 563 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 3: some balance. 564 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's only going to get messier. And 565 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 2: I say this because even when I was going through 566 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 2: the recruiting process and was going on, I had committed 567 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 2: to a school and I decommitted on signing day and 568 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 2: so I lost all my other offers. 569 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: So I didn't even know what I was doing in recruiting. 570 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 2: And I come from a good family, you know, smart 571 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 2: people all around, and it's like we didn't even know 572 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 2: what we were doing, and now you throw NIL on 573 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 2: top of all that. My whole thinking is like, you've 574 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: got to educate yourself a little bit better first, and 575 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 2: you can't listen to all the noise. So go listen 576 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 2: to podcasts by Nick and more. I'm and g reave 577 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 2: this stuff and go on Twitter. There's so many people 578 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 2: that put up good stuff, but really get educated first 579 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 2: on like actual recruiting. That would be my first thing. 580 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 2: Like if you don't understand recruiting, then you have no 581 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 2: chance of actually understanding NIL because they're tied at the hip. Now, 582 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 2: recruiting and NIL are really going to be the same 583 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 2: thing going forward, because unless you want to be the 584 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 2: entertainment athlete, and you're really just learning branding and marketing 585 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 2: and you're going more towards the influencer route or you know, 586 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 2: like a celebrity route, and that's fine to learn, and 587 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 2: I think that's great for athletes and it's going to 588 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 2: create incredible athlete entrepreneurs. I mean, I already see so 589 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 2: many over the last couple of years that have used 590 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 2: nil at college to produce in the next level. But 591 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 2: when you come back to high school, it's like, if 592 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 2: you're thinking about just nil, then you're not going to 593 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 2: make the best decision for your actual athletic ability and 594 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: you're going to cap out too early. I mean you 595 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 2: look at even like Steph Curry, for example, he's an 596 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 2: MBA now like fourteen years, but his first four years 597 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 2: he was making like basically the minimum NBA salary, like 598 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 2: a little bit over, and so like, if all he 599 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 2: was focused on was getting nil money in high school 600 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 2: and then he got to Davidson, he did all right, 601 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: but he was just so focused on that not his game, 602 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 2: he would never be to. 603 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: Where he is today. 604 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 2: And so to me, it's like understand recruiting and really 605 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 2: understand how you're going to get better and better and better, 606 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 2: and the NIL will fall in place, and there's a 607 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 2: ton of great people and resources to take care of that. 608 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 2: And the schools now, especially the colleges, and you look 609 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 2: at D one especially, they're going to become some of 610 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 2: the greatest basically educational centers for athletes. I mean, you 611 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 2: look at the pros they have, like and I'm just 612 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 2: gonna use the MBA PAS example, because I know a 613 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 2: lot of people over there, but they have all this 614 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:07,959 Speaker 2: education and they help athletes and now they're helping them 615 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 2: get into venture and they're helping them invest and manage 616 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 2: their money and finances. 617 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: They have all these speakers, but it's very like still. 618 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 2: Like OFFSET because they don't have it in the teams. 619 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 2: They have it from that league standpoint, But now every 620 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 2: university is going to have these centers and it's going 621 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 2: to have these actual people where you're not just meeting 622 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 2: with an academic advisor to go through your academic schedule. 623 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: You're gonna be meeting with like an NIL person. 624 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 2: So to me, when you talk about back to your question, 625 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 2: really focus on recruiting and focus more on how focus 626 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 2: on lifting or focus on becoming a better athlete or 627 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 2: better baseball player. Soccer or tennis or whatever it is, 628 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 2: and then just peripherally keep an eye on NIL and 629 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 2: understand like it all mostly not all, but most of 630 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 2: it stems from social media, and so hey, you're already 631 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 2: posting highlights and huddle stuff. Just start posting that through 632 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 2: your social media and just keep learning and learning and learning. 633 00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: And that's what my brother did. 634 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 2: I mentioned he's a senior or he's going to be 635 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 2: his fifth year playing the visual on dostball next year, 636 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 2: and he just started posting about like health and fitness 637 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 2: stuff on his TikTok and his Instagram and he grew 638 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 2: with fifty thousand followers and now he's getting some small 639 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 2: brand deals and it's great. But it's really just follow 640 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 2: what you're passionate about, passionate about, but worry more about athletics. 641 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 2: So that's how I would answer that. I think I 642 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 2: kind of covered it and mak and answered it. But yeah, 643 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 2: there's too many people worry about NIL and they forget 644 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 2: about what actually montors, which is the sport. And then 645 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 2: recruiting and recruiting stems from pros to college to high 646 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,360 Speaker 2: school of getting to the highest level. 647 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 3: I used to want to put everything in the microwave 648 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 3: oven and make the results, you know, heat up as 649 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 3: quickly as there's just no supplement for long term daily 650 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 3: you know, one percent better. Those old cliches like put 651 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 3: it in on high, put it in for thirty seconds 652 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 3: in the microwave, isn't going to get the same result 653 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 3: versus putting the turkey in the oven and cooking it 654 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 3: for X amount of hours over the course of the day. Right, 655 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 3: I mean, good things sometimes just take time. And I 656 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 3: think that's what you're talking about. 657 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: One hundred person. 658 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 3: Where could people find you your blog, all your content? 659 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 3: What's the best way they can connect? Because we all 660 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 3: everyone that's listening to this needs to freaking go file 661 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 3: Andrew Dude's stud so on all. 662 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 2: Social media is at Andrew Petcash that's Andrew and then 663 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 2: pet and Cash put together. 664 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: And then my website is profluence dot com. 665 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 2: That's pro and then fluence which like instead of Influence, 666 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 2: it's just Fluence. 667 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: And yeah, all my stuffs there. You can check it out. 668 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, it hit me up. 669 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 2: I answer and talk to everyone on DM's emails. It's 670 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 2: fun just trying to help everyone from pro athletes down 671 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 2: to youth parents to investors, executives, and sports. It's it's 672 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 2: been fun kind of sitting in the middle of a 673 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 2: lot of people and it's exciting. 674 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: Though. 675 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 2: I know we talked about some of the challenges and 676 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 2: some of the problems that can stem from NIL, but 677 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 2: all in all, it's a really good thing and we 678 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 2: should all embrace it and be thankful. And also, I 679 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 2: mean a little bit mad that it took this long 680 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 2: for athletes to just make money doing what they do. 681 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 2: But it's good, exciting times ahead for sure. 682 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 3: I love that and I agree with you one hundred percent. 683 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 3: Andrew pet Cash, thank you so much for coming on, bro. 684 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 3: Great conversation. 685 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: Man. 686 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 3: I love your work and I look forward to continue 687 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 3: and following you. 688 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: Thanks NK appreciate it. 689 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 3: Likewise, brother, that's Andrew pet Cash, sports entrepreneur and creator. 690 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Reform Sports Project podcast. Dominick 691 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 3: Bonacort and Our goal is to restore a healthy balance 692 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 3: and perspective in all areas of sports through education and advocacy. 693 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 3: For updates, please follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, 694 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 3: or check out our website by searching for the Reform 695 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 3: Sports Project