Speaker 1: Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on
Speaker 1: Rolling Stones, hugely popular, influential and sometimes controversialist. I'm Britney
Speaker 1: Spanis and.
Speaker 2: I'm Rob Sheffield. We're here to shed light on the
Speaker 2: greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them so great.
Speaker 1: Today we are going to talk about Midnight Train to
Speaker 1: Georgia by Gladys Knight and the Pips. Tell me a
Speaker 1: little bit of your history with this song and how
Speaker 1: much you love it.
Speaker 2: It's not just one of my favorite songs. It's arguably
Speaker 2: the song I've listened to most times in my life.
Speaker 2: Not once in my life have I listened to it
Speaker 2: once and not wanted to hear it again. I'm always
Speaker 2: sad when it's over. If I'm listening to it on
Speaker 2: the radio and the DJ fades it out one tiny
Speaker 2: bit early, I take it so personally, I'm like, I
Speaker 2: want every single one of those fade out like his world,
Speaker 2: My worldli yea. It is a song so universal. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you knew somebody and they didn't think this was
Speaker 2: a particularly good song, you'd think of them as just
Speaker 2: a lesser.
Speaker 1: Person, right, Yeah, it should be illegal to fade out
Speaker 1: before that I've got to go at the end. You're
Speaker 1: not listening to that for the full song, it's not
Speaker 1: it doesn't count.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a song where every time you hear it,
Speaker 2: you're following the story all the way through, even though
Speaker 2: you know the story of the song, you know the
Speaker 2: plot of the song that you're hanging on till the
Speaker 2: very final seconds.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's riveting from start to finish.
Speaker 2: Unbelievable. Yeah, Gladys Night and the Pips one of the
Speaker 2: all time great careers from beginning to end, so many
Speaker 2: amazing songs along the way, and it's wild how this
Speaker 2: one just stands out like a skyscraper.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So this song was on the two thousand and four
Speaker 1: list at four thirty two, and it remains on the
Speaker 1: list now at four seventy. And I mean it is
Speaker 1: a song that has become the signature song in the
Speaker 1: Glass Night and the Pips catalog. And it came two
Speaker 1: decades after they first formed. Of course, they were just
Speaker 1: known as the Pips at first. They were a family band.
Speaker 1: It was a lot of sort of them sort of
Speaker 1: reading the line up for a few years of people
Speaker 1: starting families. There's more cousins in the band originally, and
Speaker 1: you know, Gladys left for a little bit, but the
Speaker 1: the Pips as we know it, the popular lineup includes
Speaker 1: Glass's brother, Bubba Knight, and the cousins William Guest and
Speaker 1: Edward Patten, who comprised the Pips as we know them
Speaker 1: and love them, and they would sign to Motwan in
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, and this was kind of a worrying
Speaker 1: signing for Gladys.
Speaker 3: She's very, very.
Speaker 1: Worried and had a right to be worried that they
Speaker 1: would become sort of second string on Barry Gordy's list
Speaker 1: of acts on the roster. Of course, you know Diana
Speaker 1: Ross and the Supremes and Marvin Gay huge huge acts
Speaker 1: in the sixties, and Gladys was super concerned that they
Speaker 1: would kind of be secondary and for a while it
Speaker 1: did seem to kind of be true. They felt like
Speaker 1: they were losing a lot of songs to Marvin and
Speaker 1: Diana particularly, who were kind of the breadwinners of this
Speaker 1: label at the time. But they would have their first
Speaker 1: hit with I Heard through the grape Vine, which was
Speaker 1: their fourth single, and that song would end up being
Speaker 1: the first big hit for Glass Night in the Pips,
Speaker 1: and of course though it would be given as a
Speaker 1: cover to Marvin Gay a few years later, and that'd
Speaker 1: become the version that everyone kind of has come to
Speaker 1: know and sort of the version that would outsell a
Speaker 1: lot of that, and eventually the band would would leave
Speaker 1: Motown altogether, not before, of course, they would bring the
Speaker 1: Jackson five onto the label. They're actually very responsible for
Speaker 1: helping bring the Jackson five onto Motown because the Jackson
Speaker 1: five would open for Glass Night and the Pips and
Speaker 1: Gladys was so taken by this boy band that had
Speaker 1: opened for them. But when it came to contract negotiations,
Speaker 1: they decided that they need to go elsewhere. They went
Speaker 1: to Buddha Records, and their very first hit off of
Speaker 1: Buddha Records is none other than Midnight Train to Georgia.
Speaker 3: Kind of a cosmic sign that they got to go.
Speaker 2: They got to go and the family connection that you mentioned,
Speaker 2: it's so crucial in this song that you can hear
Speaker 2: it in their voices. These are people who have been
Speaker 2: through thick and thin together. They have one big lost
Speaker 2: big together. They will stick with each other through thick
Speaker 2: and thin. This is not just a group who formed
Speaker 2: in a talent show or something like that, and you
Speaker 2: can hear that connection between their voices and that you
Speaker 2: know they had been at the absolute bottom together, and
Speaker 2: they had and through really hungry, scary times together. And
Speaker 2: you can hear that in all their voices, especially hers
Speaker 2: because she's the lead singer, but you hear so much
Speaker 2: lifelong adult resilience and loyalty and their voices. Here famous
Speaker 2: story when they signed to Motown. They were in New York.
Speaker 2: They were scared. They were out of towners. They were nice,
Speaker 2: well brought up Southern kids. They were in the big city.
Speaker 2: They got a call that Motown would give them an audition,
Speaker 2: not a gig, but an audition. But the catch was
Speaker 2: they had to pay their own way to Detroit from
Speaker 2: New York. They have no money, they're broke. It's before them.
Speaker 2: They're in the city where they don't know any but
Speaker 2: don't know any other family or friends. The guitarist decides
Speaker 2: to pawn his guitar. That's the only way that they
Speaker 2: can make the bus tickets to get to Detroit for
Speaker 2: this audition. That they have no assurance that anything would
Speaker 2: come from this audition, and his guitar is pride and joy.
Speaker 2: That's where their music comes from. And he pawns that
Speaker 2: guitar and that gets them to Detroit. Everything from their
Speaker 2: career follows from that. And you can hear so much
Speaker 2: that Midnight trainto Georgia, Right, It's like it's that trip
Speaker 2: where there's this absolute loyalty, this absolute certainty, but I
Speaker 2: always love. You can hear that in so many of
Speaker 2: the Glass Landed Pip songs, just that bond between them.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also the song itself has such like a fascinating history.
Speaker 1: I did not even realize until starting to look into it.
Speaker 1: The song was originally is written by and was originally
Speaker 1: recorded by Jim Weatherley, And I mean it's originally called
Speaker 1: Midnight Playing to Houston, and it sounds completely different. I mean,
Speaker 1: just the way that Glass Night and the Pips reinvented
Speaker 1: the song for their own version is completely different. Of course,
Speaker 1: Jim Weatherley's version is much more kind of like folky,
Speaker 1: you know, feels very like seventies folk of that time.
Speaker 1: And also really loved the story behind writing that song,
Speaker 1: which was actually inspired by Farah Flawcett and her saying
Speaker 1: that she was taking a midnight playing to Houston to
Speaker 1: go visit her family. She had picked up the phone
Speaker 1: when Jim Weatherley was calling his friend Lee Majors, and
Speaker 1: Far and Lee were dating at the time, and she
Speaker 1: just happened to mention that she was taking a midnight
Speaker 1: midnight playing to Houston. And he loved that phrase and
Speaker 1: wrote an entire song based off it and inspired by
Speaker 1: his own experiences as a sort of failed NFL player
Speaker 1: who then.
Speaker 3: Would get into music.
Speaker 1: And then the song would end up being recorded by
Speaker 1: Winnie Houston's mom, Sissy Houston, and she did her own
Speaker 1: version and was the one to change it to Midnight
Speaker 1: Train to Georgia. But her version, it's like not totally
Speaker 1: what would become Glass Knight's version. Of course, the Sissy
Speaker 1: Houston version is a little bit more of the gospel
Speaker 1: infused kind of slower, still kind of the same sort
Speaker 1: of cadence of the Jim Weatherly version, but sort of
Speaker 1: moving it more into the R and B sphere. And
Speaker 1: then we get this kind of really upbeat version as
Speaker 1: opposed to the almost kind of sadder tone that the
Speaker 1: previous two versions had. So like last Night and the
Speaker 1: Pips end up kind of taking it to this kind
Speaker 1: of kind of more a more of a step in
Speaker 1: the in the beat in everything that they end up
Speaker 1: infusing a song.
Speaker 2: With absolutely and so much to that is Gladys Knight's voice.
Speaker 2: Because the song is so famous sometimes it overshadows what
Speaker 2: they did before. Their sixties motown runs so legendary just
Speaker 2: in terms of like the power of Gladys's voice and
Speaker 2: that when she was very young and hits like every
Speaker 2: beat of my Heart, she's got almost a girlish tone
Speaker 2: in her voice. But her really legendary motown recordings from
Speaker 2: like later in the sixties and early seventies are she's
Speaker 2: absolutely an adult in a way that it's really kind
Speaker 2: of breathtaking. And you listen to like some for huge
Speaker 2: motown songs from before Midnight Train, like If I Were
Speaker 2: Your Woman, which is just like a song that completely
Speaker 2: shuts down everything else that happened to you that day
Speaker 2: and you're just alone with that. It's such a terrifying
Speaker 2: story in this song, and it's all just there in
Speaker 2: her voice and in the way that the Pips in
Speaker 2: Colin responds with her, and that's something that they were
Speaker 2: so amazing at. Yet they were considered washed up at
Speaker 2: the time that they did this song. They just weren't
Speaker 2: on motown anymore. They had been through all these highs
Speaker 2: and lows together and now they were on the skids.
Speaker 2: They were starting over on Buddha Records, not Buddha as
Speaker 2: inspelled correctly, like the Buddha Buddha spelled wrong because it's
Speaker 2: a bubblegum label. It's not a taken seriously kind of label.
Speaker 2: It's seventy these bubblegum hits and brilliant ones. Nobody's knocking
Speaker 2: the legacy of you know, nineteen ten Fruit Gum Company
Speaker 2: and the other big hits of Buddha Records. But this
Speaker 2: is a group that we're famous on motown. They're not
Speaker 2: wanting on moten anymore. They're washed up. They're starting over,
Speaker 2: and that's so perfect for them, perfect for their voices.
Speaker 2: And that's there right in the beginning of the song
Speaker 2: and the way that she sings one of the great
Speaker 2: opening lines. And all the pop music la proved too
Speaker 2: much for the man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean also, like the Pips are I feel
Speaker 1: like very still underrated as just kind of this like
Speaker 1: vocal unit that is, like you mentioned the cal and
Speaker 1: response and kind of the way that they are singing
Speaker 1: with Gladys and kind of against Gladys and kind of
Speaker 1: adding in so much to the song. I mean, the
Speaker 1: song is nothing without that combination of Gladys with the Pips.
Speaker 3: It's a totally different thing.
Speaker 1: If it's like, and you hear this in both the
Speaker 1: I mean, the Jim Weatherley and Cucy Houston versions are
Speaker 1: amazing in their own right. But the reason why this
Speaker 1: song took off the way it did is because that
Speaker 1: combination of kind of Gladys telling the story about a
Speaker 1: man who's kind of failing at his superstar career and
Speaker 1: the Pip's kind of adding in this kind of Greek
Speaker 1: chorus to it. And you know, it's such a perfect combination.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I can't. It's unlike anything else in pop music
Speaker 2: that they're telling the story together. And that's why it's funny.
Speaker 2: Like you said, to listen to the earlier versions by
Speaker 2: Jim Weatherley and Sissy Houston, which are so great, but
Speaker 2: they're a lead singer telling a story. Yeah, and this
Speaker 2: is Gladys Knight telling her story. The Pips are telling
Speaker 2: the story along with her. They're rooting for her, they're
Speaker 2: speaking to the audience, they're like, yeah, she does this
Speaker 2: a lot, you know, like which she says, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm got to be with him, and they're like, I
Speaker 2: know you will. Yeah, And you can hear all those
Speaker 2: times they've been through in the way that the Pips
Speaker 2: are there telling the story, sometimes interrupting her, sometimes adding glasses,
Speaker 2: you know, and she's like, yeah, he kept dreaming that
Speaker 2: he was going to be a star. They're like a superstar,
Speaker 2: but he didn't get fun.
Speaker 1: I always love that line because it just sounds like
Speaker 1: take it just a little like a little extra job
Speaker 1: at him. It's like, if I were him, I'd be
Speaker 1: really upset if I heard the pipsing it that way.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. And sometimes they're singing to her. Sometimes they're
Speaker 2: singing to the audience, you know, when she's like, I'd
Speaker 2: rather live in his world than live without him in mind,
Speaker 2: and you know, they turn to the audience and they're
Speaker 2: in third person out they're like, her world is his world,
Speaker 2: his and hers alone, and this colm response between them.
Speaker 2: It's not like any other song, and it goes all
Speaker 2: the way through the song. Yeah, and it's amazing. You know,
Speaker 2: you decide early in your life listening to the car
Speaker 2: radio when you sing along with this song are you
Speaker 2: gladys or are you a pip? And it is a
Speaker 2: lifelong commitment yea, to be one of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the way that they change the tone
Speaker 1: of the song and the way that they tell the
Speaker 1: story versus like this kind of a story that could
Speaker 1: come off very sad. It's there is so much of that,
Speaker 1: like that kind of excitement about taking the midnight train
Speaker 1: to Georgia. They're kind of making such a case for
Speaker 1: this being a great decision for her to really like
Speaker 1: kind of follow follow him to Georgia and kind of
Speaker 1: go there and like take this big risk. I mean
Speaker 1: just again, like in that combination of how Gladys sings
Speaker 1: it and kind of all this like life force that
Speaker 1: she puts into it, and kind of the determination towards
Speaker 1: the end like my man his girl, Like the way
Speaker 1: she's like singing that part. I mean, there's so much
Speaker 1: of that in throughout the song, and the Pips kind
Speaker 1: of being like, you know, we can't argue that with that.
Speaker 2: Yes, they're not trying to change her mind. Something I
Speaker 2: love about this song. I mean, you listen to this
Speaker 2: song your whole life. Yeah, year after year, decade after decade,
Speaker 2: and it's amazing how how the story keeps deepening, how
Speaker 2: so much there's more. I mean, she's not asking this
Speaker 2: guy if he wants her to come along on the
Speaker 2: midnight train to Georgia with him. Yeah, we don't even
Speaker 2: know if he knows that she's going to be on
Speaker 2: that train. You know. She's like, yeah, he came to
Speaker 2: La from Georgia and didn't work out from here, he
Speaker 2: bombed out. He's going back home. Yeah, he's not going
Speaker 2: back home in triumphant circumstances. He's taking the midnight train.
Speaker 2: He's going home and defeat and me, I'm going home
Speaker 2: with him. And Georgia is not her place, you know,
Speaker 2: like she doesn't know anybody there. It's very different for
Speaker 2: her to be taking that train. And it's like the
Speaker 2: Book of Ruth or something, you know, like and it's
Speaker 2: funny how little of his voice or any is in
Speaker 2: the song. We don't know if he needs her to
Speaker 2: come back with him. I didn't even know if he
Speaker 2: wants her to come back with him. Maybe she's just
Speaker 2: like a girl that he met in La and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm going home, going to start over, you know, like
Speaker 2: marry my high school sweetheart. You know, the road not
Speaker 2: taken looks real good. Now She's like nope. You know
Speaker 2: where he goes I go and his world is my world.
Speaker 2: Unbelievable determination, Like you.
Speaker 1: Said, suddenly you're on a really depressing train back to
Speaker 1: Georgia at midnight and there's none of them in glass
Speaker 1: night and the Pips just waiting for you on the train.
Speaker 2: Yes, and she's going to be with him, and just
Speaker 2: that determination when she's like, I'm going to be with
Speaker 2: him and the Pips say, I know you will. It's
Speaker 2: really kind of beautiful that they are absolutely cheering her
Speaker 2: on and at the end when she's like on the
Speaker 2: train platform and like is she really going to do it?
Speaker 2: Is she going to go through with it? And you know,
Speaker 2: and the Pips are, you know, saying like you can
Speaker 2: do this. You got this really kind of beautiful.
Speaker 1: And so much of the construction of the song and
Speaker 1: the way that Gladys and the Pips are kind of
Speaker 1: having that dialogue with each other and alongside each other
Speaker 1: reminds me so much of like a lot of like
Speaker 1: Alan Mankin's music for Disney, you know, reminds me of
Speaker 1: just like in Hercules, you know, like the songs with
Speaker 1: the Muses in there, and kind of the even like
Speaker 1: Low Mermaid and all those kind of early nineties Disney
Speaker 1: movies that you know, created these massive hits for Disney
Speaker 1: and the kind of that new revival for Disney. So
Speaker 1: much of them seemed owe a lot to Last Night
Speaker 1: the Pips, and in particular a song like Midnight Training
Speaker 1: to Georgia and that kind of conversation that these like
Speaker 1: secondary kind of scening characters can have and kind of
Speaker 1: make such a big part of these songs.
Speaker 2: You are absolutely blowing. That is so true.
Speaker 1: I feel like it did reminds me so much of
Speaker 1: the Muses, and like you know, in Hercules particularly, it's.
Speaker 2: Beautiful when you know that the family, the family connection.
Speaker 2: Gladys is often told the story she's very embarrassed. She's
Speaker 2: a very shy person. She's very shy about improvising on mic.
Speaker 2: The ad libbing is very difficult for her. She talked
Speaker 2: about when she was recording this that her brother was
Speaker 2: there in the studio right standing right next to her
Speaker 2: mic whispering into her ear because she was too shy
Speaker 2: to sing all those his world, my world, as long
Speaker 2: as he's alone, and she was really shy about doing it,
Speaker 2: and she needed him to be standing there and whispering
Speaker 2: into her ear what the next line was, and just
Speaker 2: really kind of amazing that that's how she recorded it,
Speaker 2: was her brother's standing right next to her for moral support,
Speaker 2: whispering the lines into her ear, and you can hear
Speaker 2: so much of that in the final version of the song.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, definitely. The ad libs at the end are
Speaker 3: the best part for me.
Speaker 4: Like that.
Speaker 1: Those ad libs are like the just the cherry on
Speaker 1: top of a great popcake.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, It's like half the song and it's just
Speaker 2: unbelievably dramatic, and the whole song is building up to that,
Speaker 2: and you still you still want it to go on.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Are you a gladys or a pip?
Speaker 2: I'm always a bit you know. I had three sisters,
Speaker 2: so like, you know, they were glad as sing I
Speaker 2: was pipping. I was like and that was the way
Speaker 2: it was. And there's something it's such a long and
Speaker 2: fantastic R and B tradition that you know, the female
Speaker 2: singer and the male backup singers who are kind of
Speaker 2: telling the story with her but also kind of you know,
Speaker 2: rooting for her, cheering her on. I always think of
Speaker 2: one of the one of the great examples, Aliyah, Are
Speaker 2: you that somebody where she's like telling us her in
Speaker 2: Timbaland's there and he's like, it's a Leah's song. Timb
Speaker 2: Bland is like you got this, you could do this,
Speaker 2: don't be scared like you are that somebody, and he's like,
Speaker 2: you know, beb a girl, you know, like and that
Speaker 2: kind of commonresponse that's absolutely like another perfect example.
Speaker 1: It is, Yeah, yeah, I wonder how much of that, like,
Speaker 1: how much of those kind of moments in pop because
Speaker 1: I made me kind of think of like the ODB
Speaker 1: version of like Fantasy right where he's kind of like
Speaker 1: totally like, I wonder how much of that is owed
Speaker 1: to the very specific and particular type of relationship the
Speaker 1: Pips and Gladys have in their music and in their discography.
Speaker 2: You know, you think about something like another great exam
Speaker 2: that I Love is another one of the greatest songs
Speaker 2: of the twenty first century family affair Mary J. Blige,
Speaker 2: and just the way that Drey's presence in the song
Speaker 2: is an enabler and that sort of like beautiful column
Speaker 2: response in Midnight Training to Georgia is so specific to
Speaker 2: this song. Though, It's funny that the other song I
Speaker 2: really think of is having A similar kind of approach
Speaker 2: and similar kind of emotional impact is that the Beatles
Speaker 2: song Help, Yeah, and it's well because you know, John
Speaker 2: Lennon is telling that story and it's very personal, you know,
Speaker 2: like I used to think I knew what I was
Speaker 2: doing in life. I had no idea. I'm really scared.
Speaker 2: I have no idea what's coming next. And it's amazing
Speaker 2: when you listen to it, and the way it'd be
Speaker 2: very differentive or John just singing the song, but he's
Speaker 2: telling the story with Paul and George and they're singing
Speaker 2: along with him in very much a Gladys and Pips
Speaker 2: kind of way. Yeah, And they're telling the story along
Speaker 2: with him, they're cheering him on, they're not entering the
Speaker 2: story themselves. And that is a kind of similar impact
Speaker 2: for me in terms of listening to those songs over
Speaker 2: the years. I think of how different Help would be
Speaker 2: if it were just John singing the song yeah, and
Speaker 2: how different Midnight Train would be if it were just
Speaker 2: Gladys even with her amazing powerful one time in human
Speaker 2: history voice, but Gladys Knight has Yeah.
Speaker 1: I guess Hey, I feel like now I'm thinking of
Speaker 1: like the lyrics of Help and like how that song
Speaker 1: always sounds so like like uplifting, you know, like yeah,
Speaker 1: kind of like me, like here's me and my buddy.
Speaker 1: Isn't like they're helping me, Like like when you think
Speaker 1: of it like stripped down, and the same way with
Speaker 1: Midnight Train to Georgia, Like when you strip it down
Speaker 1: and it's like the lyrics are actually like kind of sad,
Speaker 1: and like the tone totally shifts with that style of
Speaker 1: storytelling and like with kind of just like that just
Speaker 1: a little like tweak to how you it's actually delivered
Speaker 1: and how it's kind of like put in the context
Speaker 1: of all the vocalists together, it's.
Speaker 2: Really kind of beautiful their way almost like the background
Speaker 2: singers are sort of like the angel on the shoulder saying,
Speaker 2: you know, like don't worry dot where you could do this.
Speaker 2: I hear a lot of Midnight Training to Georgia in
Speaker 2: Outcasts and especially in Andred three thousand, but that beautiful
Speaker 2: moment in international plays Anthem and the UGK song, I
Speaker 2: think is a quintessential Midnight Train to Georgia. Yeah moment.
Speaker 1: For me, it is making me think of Roses by Outcasts,
Speaker 1: which is one of my maybe maybe my number one
Speaker 1: Outcast song actually, but yeah, that that sort of Andre
Speaker 1: being like his own but being both Gladys and the
Speaker 1: Pips on his part of the song totally. Like even
Speaker 1: the way he sings like Caroline, you know, like it's
Speaker 1: just kind of like adding that call and response for himself.
Speaker 2: Totally. We all need to be our own pip. I mean,
Speaker 2: like it's hard to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even think just like a lot of
Speaker 1: Georgia born Atlanta, specifically rap artists who have come out
Speaker 1: in the last like two decades, I feel like there
Speaker 1: is so much of that, like you know, like the Migos,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's just like that col and response
Speaker 1: element of it and kind of the family band and
Speaker 1: sort of that that interaction together feels like it owes
Speaker 1: so much to Last Night and the Pips, And they
Speaker 1: probably do pull directly from.
Speaker 3: Glass and the Pips.
Speaker 1: They are such like fans of that era of music
Speaker 1: and such fans of kind of classic motown music.
Speaker 3: So I wouldn't I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Doubt that that's like a big part of what's inspire
Speaker 1: them totally.
Speaker 2: I think I think of a lot of Wu Tang
Speaker 2: songs have a lot of connection to Midnight Training to Georgia,
Speaker 2: like again, like just because of that, like that sense
Speaker 2: of like people have known each other and been through
Speaker 2: stuff together. Specifically the ghost Face song All That All
Speaker 2: That I Got Is You Yeah from Iron Man, one
Speaker 2: of the greatest songs ever and Mary J. Blige in
Speaker 2: that song and the way that they're telling that story
Speaker 2: together and it's a very different kind of story. It's
Speaker 2: very sad childhood story, but the way that the different
Speaker 2: voices in the song are telling the story together very
Speaker 2: much part of that tradition for sure, Georgia connection. But
Speaker 2: the Indigo Girls have a fantastic version of mind Night
Speaker 2: Training to Georgia, And because they're folk duo, it's you know,
Speaker 2: one voice is Gladys and one voice is the Pips,
Speaker 2: and it's the only version of the song I know
Speaker 2: like that where and it's just like the two voices
Speaker 2: acoustic guitars and they strip it down and it's funny
Speaker 2: and it's a live it's something they did live for
Speaker 2: a while. And the live version is so interesting because
Speaker 2: when they do it at the beginning, you can hear
Speaker 2: the audience laugh a little bit and they think, like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is gonna be funny. This is like a beloved
Speaker 2: seventies old and they're doing like sort of a you know,
Speaker 2: quasi camp version of it. Yeah, and it's funny that
Speaker 2: you hear that reaction at first, that that's what people expect,
Speaker 2: and as they're telling the story together, you can hear
Speaker 2: how it transforms them, Like no, it like the singers
Speaker 2: know like what kind of story this is, and they
Speaker 2: know it's a story that has to be told together
Speaker 2: and that they deal with just those two voices. It's
Speaker 2: unlike any other version of the song that I know,
Speaker 2: But it's just it's so moving and so powerful and
Speaker 2: so clever.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The furthest I could I could think of was a
Speaker 1: great thirty rock scene. Where do you tell there's some
Speaker 1: where Kenneth is going back to Georgia and he the
Speaker 1: cast starts singing Midnight Train, which is fun. It's a
Speaker 1: good time last night's in the episode. You know, it's cute,
Speaker 1: it's storing thirty rock.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 1: After the break, we will be joined by Ed Stacium,
Speaker 1: who was the engineer and mixer on Midnight Train to Georgia.
Speaker 2: We are here with the production legend and stays you,
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's you man.
Speaker 3: Thanks Rob I want to know how.
Speaker 1: I know this was very early in your career, and
Speaker 1: I'm curious how you connected with Glass Night and the
Speaker 1: Pips and got attached to this record.
Speaker 4: Tony Caamello, who was the producer of Midnight Train Camello
Speaker 4: had a partner, Tony bon Jovi, the Great Tony bon Jovi.
Speaker 4: So when I first got there, Tony was Camello's engineer.
Speaker 4: Tony was tight with Neil Bogart at Buddha Records. Tony,
Speaker 4: they had finished up their contract. They didn't want to
Speaker 4: sign back with Motown. They just had a big hit
Speaker 4: with neither one of us. And you know, of course
Speaker 4: earlier had heard through the grapevine. So Neil, Neil Bogart
Speaker 4: loved Tony and I went into Neil's office with him
Speaker 4: several times at the Buddha offices and he would always
Speaker 4: like be pouring Kanyac and heaven knows what else happened,
Speaker 4: and he wanted to he said, He called up Tony.
Speaker 4: He says, Tony, I want you to work on some
Speaker 4: of these Gladyson Night tracks. Boom, there we go. So
Speaker 4: we cut some track. We cut it twice before we
Speaker 4: ended up the final take. So it's Neil Bogart, loving
Speaker 4: Tony's work, thought Tony had a vibe and which he did.
Speaker 4: He was a great producer, a musical genius.
Speaker 2: Did Gladys Knight have the song Midnight Train when she
Speaker 2: came in.
Speaker 4: I think the song came through Neil and Tony. You know,
Speaker 4: I'm not privy to some of the dealings that went
Speaker 4: on with the record company. I do know some things.
Speaker 3: Anyway, there was a.
Speaker 4: Publisher, I don't know who it was, pushing the song,
Speaker 4: and Sissy Houston, Whitney's mom, who used to come down
Speaker 4: and sing backing vocals on some of the I think
Speaker 4: she sang on those Cecil Home Sulful Sounds records Sissy did.
Speaker 4: She was a studio backup singer in New York at
Speaker 4: that time, so she had a record deal and her
Speaker 4: and Sissy and her manager wanted to change the lyric
Speaker 4: from Midnight Playing to Houston to Midnight Trained to Georgia,
Speaker 4: which was a great idea. So I saw the sheet
Speaker 4: news that that Tony had still had Midnight Playing Houston
Speaker 4: written on it. But by the time we got the
Speaker 4: demos and somebody had, you know, told Gladys that they
Speaker 4: should do the song. It was already changed to Midnight
Speaker 4: Train to Georgia, changed by Sissy Houston. That's who requested
Speaker 4: that they changed the lyric.
Speaker 2: So Gladys Knight is the song. How did the session happen?
Speaker 4: Right? We three sessions. I don't have a copy of
Speaker 4: the very first one, but I have a copy of
Speaker 4: the second one that would you like to hear a
Speaker 4: little bit of it? And this is take one.
Speaker 5: Lao, you must follow the man. So he's leaving the
Speaker 5: life he's come to know, he said, he's going back
Speaker 5: to part Yeah, who what's left off his world?
Speaker 4: So as you can hear, it's a much slower version.
Speaker 4: We don't there's no there's no strings on it yet.
Speaker 4: Tony would have put strings and horns on it. But
Speaker 4: this is interesting. A couple of spots here she sings
Speaker 4: midnight Train to Atlanta.
Speaker 5: Check it out on that midnight train to it better?
Speaker 4: Pretty cool, right, yeah?
Speaker 2: Totally different thought.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah yeah. And here's a cool little there's
Speaker 4: a scratch trap that Tony did which is emulating backing vocals.
Speaker 4: We'll play that with Gladys.
Speaker 2: That's for fun.
Speaker 6: It's pretty cool, you know, yes, like train Jolter.
Speaker 5: And you'll be gone, he's going back to bun Long
Speaker 5: go oh.
Speaker 4: Some time.
Speaker 5: Yes with him, I'm going with train John Train your.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 3: He said, that was the second session.
Speaker 5: That you worked with.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was one before this. I don't have the
Speaker 4: y track. So we sent this to glad As I
Speaker 4: recall sent a multi track to Gladys and then she
Speaker 4: put a vocal on it. She says, I don't like this.
Speaker 4: I don't like this version. It's too slow, and I
Speaker 4: believe that. Bubba also said, we need something that's happening.
Speaker 4: We need something that's more in the al green kind
Speaker 4: of vibe, you know, down home southern, you know, a
Speaker 4: little dirty. So that's how they suggested it. So Tony
Speaker 4: was actually at this time he was he's getting a
Speaker 4: little nervous because you know, he really wanted to get
Speaker 4: this record done. We had to get it out there,
Speaker 4: and so Gladys. He talked to Gladys and she's like,
Speaker 4: we gotta get we got to make something better. We
Speaker 4: gotta have an al green feel. Okay, you can kind
Speaker 4: of relate to the final version and how that is.
Speaker 2: What was it like recording Gladys's vocal, But the final session,
Speaker 2: Gladys's vocal is so great.
Speaker 4: Well one to Detroit. You can hear the ideas that
Speaker 4: Tony had there for some backing vocals, right, Gladys went
Speaker 4: out and did a real quick vocal when I didn't
Speaker 4: you know, I wou'd never met. I had never been
Speaker 4: in that studio before. It was my first airplane flight,
Speaker 4: never been in that studio before. Here I go checked
Speaker 4: the input level. Okay, I want to sing now, go
Speaker 4: go go saying. Glass did a quick reference vocal. I
Speaker 4: was able to twitter it a little bit. And then
Speaker 4: the Pips went out and did their backing vocals, and
Speaker 4: they pretty much did those backing vocals one line at
Speaker 4: a time, and Tony was guiding them through that. Tony
Speaker 4: and Bubba came up with a few, but like Tony
Speaker 4: Camello came up with that a super.
Speaker 3: Bistar buddy who didn't get FA, which is you.
Speaker 4: Know, classic and the Boo boo. I think Tony came
Speaker 4: up with that as well. I believe you know either
Speaker 4: not drained to Georgia Midnight Drain the Georgia Boo boo.
Speaker 4: So we did that each line pretty much a line
Speaker 4: at a time with Glass's guide vocal. We double tracked
Speaker 4: each one. We would do the line like a super
Speaker 4: bistar buddy didn't get far, and then we would double
Speaker 4: that line and then went on to the next line.
Speaker 4: Then we would get it, and they would do it
Speaker 4: several times until I really hit it on. Tony wanted
Speaker 4: it to be very precise and you know, tight, and
Speaker 4: those backing vocals are tight, and they're double tracked. So
Speaker 4: we do each like I said, each line at the time,
Speaker 4: and then we finished the backing vocals and it was Gladys'
Speaker 4: turn to Okay, I want to do a real vocal.
Speaker 5: Now here I go.
Speaker 4: And this is funny. Gladys whould eat a lemon before
Speaker 4: you go into record. She always had a lemono whether
Speaker 4: she cut it and put in her mouth and eat
Speaker 4: it like an orange. And she went out there says
Speaker 4: I'm ready to do.
Speaker 2: A vocal now.
Speaker 4: Yes. She did the final vocal, one take, what's what?
Speaker 4: One take all the way through, and there was one
Speaker 4: line in the fade on the somewhere I got to go,
Speaker 4: I got to go, Hey, one of those somewhere I don't.
Speaker 4: And I listened to it in solo because I have
Speaker 4: the multi track of that as well. I could not
Speaker 4: figure which one it was that we went to Bell
Speaker 4: Sound in New York and just punched in one line,
Speaker 4: but the whole body of the song is a one
Speaker 4: take vocal. It's amazing. What a singer. There's a thrill,
Speaker 4: there's a real thrill to work with them. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: wanted to play a little bit of the Pips on
Speaker 4: in solo because it sounds so good.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so we can hear a little bit about
Speaker 1: a little bit of the isolated vocals from the Pips.
Speaker 1: I know you want to play for us.
Speaker 5: Last bit night Shame George that same.
Speaker 4: It's just great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, going back to.
Speaker 5: Fine whenever he takes that ride, I guess it's gonna
Speaker 5: be right by his side.
Speaker 4: I know you will really tight, really really tight and night.
Speaker 5: Trash George Living whoa.
Speaker 3: Whold is his His and hers alone?
Speaker 5: Dream man a superstar.
Speaker 2: But it didn't get far. That's amazing.
Speaker 3: Wow, I wasn't incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds amazing. Thank you so much for all
Speaker 2: this music that you've made, especially the one we're talking
Speaker 2: about today, Midnight Train to Georgia, a classic song.
Speaker 4: It was my pleasure great to see both of you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Thank you so much for listening to
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone's five hundred Greatest Songs. This podcast is brought
Speaker 2: to you by Rolling Stone and iHeartMedia. Written and hosted
Speaker 2: by me, Rob Sheffield.
Speaker 3: And Britney Spanos.
Speaker 2: Executive produced by Jason Fine, Alex Dale and Christian Horde,
Speaker 2: and produced by Jesse Cannon, with music supervision by Eric Zeiler.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, Thanks for watching.