WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: Big Apps That Flopped 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.360 Hey, it's care Price host of tech Stuff. We're taking 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:18.560 a week off, but we'll have a fresh episode for 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.239 you next Wednesday. You're not gonna want to miss Oz's 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:25.320 conversation with the CEO of Colossal Biosciences. I know, I 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:27.479 was surprised by just how close we may be to 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:30.320 bringing back the Wooly Mammoth and what that could mean 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.240 for our planet. So definitely check that out next week. 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.400 In lieu of headlines today, we wanted to share an 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.960 episode of tech Stuff from February twenty twenty four about 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:43.160 some of the biggest apps to ever flop. The tech 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.680 industry moves really fast. It always has, but now it 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.760 feels like it's moving in hyper speed given the popularity 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:54.160 of vibe coding programs like Cursor, Codex, and Copilot. With 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:56.680 these tools, you no longer have to be an expert 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:00.280 software engineer to write code, and now you have to 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:04.560 be a designer either. Last week, Google launched Stitch, a 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.200 program that can help you build web or mobile app 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:10.800 front ends. But just because you can, it doesn't mean 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:14.040 you should. In the episode you're about to hear, Jonathan 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:16.880 Strickland reminds us that not every pitch is a promise, 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:22.280 and sometimes the most compelling apps can fail. Take a listen. 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:35.240 Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:38.200 and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.319 I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts. And how the 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:45.000 tech are yet? So, once upon a time, we used 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:47.880 to have these things called programs. And I say that 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:51.120 because now we don't call programs programs anymore. We typically 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:54.720 call programs apps. I think that really started to become 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:58.600 a thing upon the ascent of the consumer smartphone, which 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.320 was sparked by Apple, which was then cranked up by Android, 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.720 and that we really had the era of the app. 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.200 At that point. We used to, like I said, call 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.800 them programs. Now they are applications, whether it's for a 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:15.519 phone or a computer. I guess app stores sounds better 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:20.760 than program emporium anyway. For thousands of entrepreneurs, the dream 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:24.080 is to build an app and to become rich beyond 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:28.960 your wildest dreams. Right, You design an app and then 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.320 the money rolls in. Maybe it's because some bigger fish 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.280 out there, like some Google or Apple or Meta, decides 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:39.360 that you're just too good to be left unacquired. And 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:42.280 then they spend a bucket load of cash on you, 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:46.760 hopefully ten times more than what you're actually worth. Or 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.639 maybe you actually figure out how to be profitable all 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.320 on your own, you actually have a business plan and 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:55.760 you have a way of generating revenue. You would be 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:59.640 the rare Silicon Valley project that actually works as a 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:04.480 business business on its own. That again is the dream. 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:08.280 But dreams don't always come true, and sometimes even apps 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.240 that seem to be strapped to a rocket for success 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.840 end up blowing up and going up in flames. So 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:18.000 this episode is about apps that fall into that category, 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.720 apps that at one time seemed like they were a 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:24.440 sure thing, only they flamed out down the line. One 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.840 of the apps I originally planned to put on this 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.160 list was four square, but as it turns out, that 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.760 app and the company behind it is still chugging along, 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.280 just in a slightly different role than it was before. 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:41.680 See I remember when four square launched and folks would 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.280 use it to check in to locations that they were 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.240 visiting in the real world. So some places would even 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:51.160 start to offer special discounsel right, like twenty percent off 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.160 your first drink if you check into the bar via 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.840 four square. Because it was seen as a kind of 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:01.920 viral marketing. Other folks were worried about the privacy issues 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:05.200 of this kind of behavior. In fact, some folks created 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:09.760 a website called Please rob Me, and this site satirically 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:14.760 would scrape data off Twitter for four square check in notifications, 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.440 so please rob Me would then list people who were 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.440 saying they were not currently at home. Now, the whole 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:24.760 point wasn't to actually inspire a wave of burglaries, but 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:29.599 rather show why it's dangerous to broadcast your location to 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.080 the world in general. Then it might not be a 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:36.520 good idea, and maybe people should think harder about their 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:42.160 personal privacy. In twenty fourteen, for Square actually changed dramatically. 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:46.920 The company launched a companion app called Swarm Now. This 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:51.039 app contained all the social networking features that for Square 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.760 used to have, so all the check in stuff, all 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:58.839 the geolocation stuff that was kind of seen as the 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:01.720 critical element of four square and the one that you 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.640 should be worried about that went to Swarm. For Square 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.280 meanwhile became four Square City Guide, which became a discovery 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.040 and recommendation app, and it would help you figure out 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:15.039 places that maybe you should visit based upon your past experiences, right, 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.919 It would say, Okay, I see that you're in downtown 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.160 New York, and because of the places that you used 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:25.400 to go to in your hometown, here are some places 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:27.920 we think you should probably check out because you'll really 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.760 like them. You didn't have to use both of the 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.240 apps if you didn't want to, but they did compliment 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:37.039 one another, So if you used Swarm, four Square would 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:41.520 tap into that check in data to help inform what 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:45.560 recommendations it should give you. Those apps are still available today. 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.240 Like I just thought that four Square had come and 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.960 gone because I haven't personally used it in a decade, 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:56.119 But the fact is it's still a thing. One really 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.120 interesting thing to me is that forour Square's business largely 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:07.280 involves licensing its technology to other companies, which include Uber, Airbnb, Snapchat, 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.080 and lots more. The check in feature that four Square 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.960 developed powers numerous other apps. So while our perception was 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.560 that four Square was a relic of the past, that's 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:22.240 just not true. That's totally my misconception there, and again 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.479 it's because I haven't really paid attention to four Square 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:27.080 in a decade. But it is interesting to me that 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.960 you know, they found success in a different way than 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.440 what they set out to do. I still don't have 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:37.600 any real desire to read download either four Square or Swarm. However, 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:40.719 on a related note, there is also the story of 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:44.599 yik Yak. Now, this app actually did flame out, but 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.360 then it was resurrected again just a few years ago, 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.200 so for those of y'all who do not know the story, 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:54.680 A couple of guys launched an anonymous location based messaging 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.240 platform back in twenty thirteen, and the way it worked 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:00.960 was that you would open the app and you would 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:04.120 connect via putting in your phone number. This would end 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:08.159 up allowing you to post to the platform, but you 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.160 would only be able to read messages that had been 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:14.280 posted by people within a certain distance of your physical location, 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.400 such as within a five mile radius, and you could 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.560 post a message anonymously, and again only people who were 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:24.080 in a five mile radius of your location would be 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.080 able to read your message, So as you would travel around, 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.680 you would see new messages, while ones that were now 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.120 out of physical range would disappear from view. The focus 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:37.720 on geolocation, coupled with anonymity, made the app extremely popular 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:41.640 with school campuses, and Yakyak largely catered to that audience. 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:46.280 This also meant there was a lot of abuse. There 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.560 was no accountability, right, There was no connection to a 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.720 specific person, so people could post the platform and they 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:56.640 could bully other folks or worse. So there were these 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.960 stories popping up all around the United States about how 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.480 the app was bringing out the absolute worst in people 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:07.720 and endangering folks right Like, let's say that you belonged 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:12.480 to a minority population in a particular campus university of 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.520 Even if someone's not specifically calling you out, it might 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:17.760 be easy to figure out who people are talking about, 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.560 which could definitely hurt your mental health, or they could 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.800 even be calling for more extreme acts that could endanger 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:29.240 your physical health. So pressure built against the company, and 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.920 eventually yaikyak cave to it. So in twenty fifteen, Yayik 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.840 made a massive change and required users to register a 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.319 handle with the site. So all messages now would be 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.199 attributed to a handle. They wouldn't be fully anonymous. Now, 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.720 it was still a handle, not your name, so it 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.520 wasn't exactly the same thing as signing your name to 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.000 your own words, but it was a lot closer than 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:55.800 what had come before. Hardcore users hated this change, and 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.000 eventually yak Yak kind of backed off a bit and 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.600 made it an optional feature, but by then the user 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:05.720 base had been alienated and had dwindled, and in twenty seventeen, 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.360 the company announced that the app was shutting down due 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.480 to that dwindling user base. They actually did a sell 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:16.360 off Square, the company that is behind online payment systems. 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:20.560 They purchased essentially the IP but really more like they 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.240 purchased the engineering talent of YikYak and brought them on board, 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.840 and it was for reportedly like just a million dollars, 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:29.800 which is still a lot of money. Don't get me wrong. 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.800 A million dollars is a lot, but it's nothing compared 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.880 to what yik yak was valued at a few years earlier. 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:40.920 And so yak yak effectively stopped being a thing in 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:45.040 twenty seventeen, and it stayed in the grave for four years. 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:47.880 But then in February twenty twenty one, a group of 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:52.480 new owners who remained mysterious and unnamed. Like everywhere I 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.920 look to find out who the heck owned yaikyak between 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.199 twenty twenty one and twenty twenty three, didn't have information 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.640 about that anyway, They purchased yak Yak and announced plans 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.080 to relaunch, and sure enough, late in the summer of 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:08.840 twenty twenty one, the app came back. Now two years later, 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:12.679 in twenty twenty three, another company called side Chat scooped 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.880 up yik Yak now side chats. Shtick was essentially the 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.679 same as yak yak. Sidechat had an anonymous posting platform 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:24.559 that largely was targeting college campuses. Side Chat was not 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.000 as popular as yak yak. A lot of yak yak 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:33.400 users felt that Sidechat's user interface was inferior, and initially 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.760 yak yak users were getting messages where they were being 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:40.199 urged to migrate to side chat and they hated it. 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.960 Eventually that would change, where yik yak would remain a thing, 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:49.400 but effectively transformed into side chat. You know, its interface 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.719 became more of side Chat's interface. By the way, I 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:55.720 based this all off of blog posts and articles and 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.800 message boards because I wasn't onn yik yak at the time, 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.400 so I had no idea of what was going on. 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.040 But while the initial yik yak was popular with campuses, 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:09.680 this new version specifically focused on university students, like almost 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.480 like exclusively, as opposed to it being a community based 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.360 thing or a regional based thing. It was specifically a 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.480 campus based thing, and occasionally it sounds like it would 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.600 even make mistakes and accidentally assign someone to a university 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.920 that was not the one they actually went to, which 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:28.559 could be really hairy, right because if I were to 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.080 join Yak Yak and it suggested I was a student 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.280 at Georgia Tech, that's fighting words because I attended the 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.360 University of Georgia. Now that probably means nothing to most 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:39.280 of you, but just know those two schools have had 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:43.480 a long standing rivalry that goes between being you know, 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:48.280 good natured ribbing and genuine, deep seated loathing. So if 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:51.760 you had one student misidentified as going to the other school, 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.040 that could be fighting words. Now, I should say that 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:59.400 Yak Yak currently is only back for iOS users, as 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:03.840 I record the podcast. Now, the relaunch did at one 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:08.480 point include Android, and apparently it was only active for 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.280 a very short while before in the spring of twenty 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.559 twenty three, the company said that they were shutting down 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.640 Android support in order to focus on building out features 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.160 for the iOS version. Now, again, I can't check this 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.400 app out. I'm an Android user. Plus I'm not a 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.160 college student, so I have to rely on articles and 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.440 Reddit posts to read up on it, and it sounds 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.920 to me that in the past you could register for 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.800 yik yik just with your phone number, but now since 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:37.160 the side chat acquisition, you have to supply a university 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:41.720 email address to create an account university or college email address, 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:43.920 and if you don't have one of those, you can't 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:45.800 have an account, and that has upset a lot of 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.480 users because it meant that they're one. If they're not 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:52.160 in college, they can't be part of this anymore. Though honestly, 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:54.720 I don't see why you would necessarily want to be, 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.440 but then that's probably because I feel a lot of 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.920 empathy for the folks who were bullied, but it all 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:02.760 so is a reason. One reason they don't want to 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.080 do it anymore is because their actual identity would be 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.880 associated with their account, maybe not directly, like the actual 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:13.080 posts would be anonymous, but the site would know who 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.240 you were because you would have an email address tied 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:20.600 to your identity to register for the site. Arguably, you 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.440 could say the same thing is true because for the 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.760 old version, because you had to supply a phone number, 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:29.560 So unless you're buying burner numbers just for yekiyak, it 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.600 would be pretty easy to figure out who you were. 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:34.840 But it also means that if you're not a college student, 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.520 or you're not on faculty or staff, then you're completely 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.120 out of the loop. There's a lot of competition in 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.120 the anonymous message board space these days. Seems to me 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.880 that a lot of the companies behind these apps typically 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.920 will reach a level of success that brings more attention 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:54.920 to their activities and perhaps their flaws, let's say, and 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.000 then they feel pressure to change things in order to 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.839 make their apps less prone to abuse because now people 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:03.640 are paying attention to them and calling them out. And 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:07.720 then subsequently, after making these changes, the apps decline in 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:11.200 popularity because it turns out the user base the stuff 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.560 that they really liked happened to be the same stuff 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.840 that also facilitated abuse. Not to say that users all 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.920 enjoyed and piling on folks and abusing people, but that 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:26.360 the same features that made it easy to abuse folks 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:30.120 were also the features that people just really liked. That 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:31.840 kind of seems to be the life cycle for these 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.280 kinds of applications. They launch, they go viral, they get 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:39.680 really big folks notice that sometimes really awful people are 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.840 using that app to do really awful things. The app 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.400 then ends up making changes in an effort to not 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.880 be held accountable for these things, and then it alienates 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.320 the user base, both the good and the bad users. 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.680 It then declines in popularity, then it fades into memory, 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.080 your rents and you repeat. Now, I can't say for 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:00.280 certain that's what's happening with ya Yak. There are a 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.120 lot of users who say that it's not as good 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.320 as it used to be, that they don't see the appeal. 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.240 The fact that it doesn't it's not available for Android 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.640 users is a huge thing. It means that a large 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.680 amount of the population can't even access it. Maybe the 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:17.480 company will manage to relaunch for Android and regain some momentum, 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:21.200 or maybe it's on the path back toward obsolescence. Okay, 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.960 we've got more failed apps to talk about. Before we 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:36.960 do that, let's stop for a moment and thank our sponsors. Okay, 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.840 we're back. So no list of failed apps would be 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:47.920 complete without Quibbi. Holy cats, this was a massive whiff 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.480 with a whole lot of money and some really heavy 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.360 hitters in both the entertainment and tech industries at the wheel, 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:59.680 and it's still crashed and burned. It was the brainchild 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:04.200 of Jeffrey Katzenberg, who had forged a legendary career in Hollywood. 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.840 You know, he became really well known at Disney and 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.480 then created dream Works. And Quibi was hoping to tap 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:16.640 into that same magic that Hollywood success and also the 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.800 same magic that TikTok moosts. That was the key was 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:25.360 can we make something inspired by the success of TikTok, 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:29.080 and that was namely short form content, And in the 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.720 case of Quibi, the short form would be videos that 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:36.440 would last ten minutes or less. However, unlike TikTok, Quibi 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:40.160 productions would have some serious money behind them. We're talking 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.840 about really high production values, stuff that you would see 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.600 that would be akin to a television or film studio. 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.600 And if TikTok could knock him dead with diy shorts 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.200 created by just any Yahoo out there, surely an entertainment 0:16:55.240 --> 0:17:00.720 app with serious Hollywood credentials could make a killing right now. 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:05.040 On the tech side, former HP CEO Meg Whitman was 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.960 on board, and Whitman and Katzenberg brainstormed the structure and 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:13.560 execution of Quibbi. They also are argued a lot Witman 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.639 would later essentially say that Katzenberg would undermine her decisions 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:19.840 and was micromanaging, and there seemed to be a lot 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:23.080 of bad blood at the top levels at Quibbi, which 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.560 was just one of many problems. But the company signed 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:32.560 on various actors, directors, writers, and associated people to create 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:38.480 content for the site. They poured approximately a billion dollars 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.359 to that effect. Some of the content created consisted of 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.160 standalone short videos right like it was just a one 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:48.800 and done ten minutes or less video, but some were 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.640 actually serialized. They were longer pieces and divided up into 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:55.520 ten minute long chapters. This in turn was a really 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.640 tricky because, like, if you're gonna divide a movie into 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:02.080 ten minute long chapters a way to entice people to 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.960 continue after a chapter is over, and in my opinion, 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:08.879 it becomes like a Dan Brown novel where every chapter 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.960 ends in a cliffhanger to try and incentivize people to 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.480 go to the next chapter. And personally, I find that 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:21.800 kind of narrative exhausting and not very satisfying. I am 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.520 not a Dan Brown fan, nothing against him, I just 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.040 it doesn't appeal to me to end every few pages 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.960 with another cliffhanger. Anyway, they also made a really odd 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:37.160 decision when it came to framing, because the whole point 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.360 of Quibi was that it was intended to be consumed 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.920 on smartphones. And as I'm sure you're aware, we're used 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:48.040 to watching television programs in landscape format, that is, the 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:52.560 picture is wider than it is tall, right, But for phones, 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:57.560 we often hold phones in portrait mode, where it's taller 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.919 than it is wide. Otherwise you have to turn the 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.640 dang phone on its side, and there's a chance you'll 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.439 end up watching a tiny video with huge black bars 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.960 above and below it. So one choice Quibi's founders made 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.840 is that all content should be viewable in full screen, 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.000 whether the user was holding their phone in portrait or 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.399 landscape mode, and that you could switch back and forth. 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.320 So you could hold it in portrait mode and then say, 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:23.399 you know what, I don't want to see this in 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.840 wide screen, turn your phone landscape. It would switch, and 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:31.080 in both versions the image would completely fill the screen 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:33.679 of your phone. That's a big deal, even though it 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.120 might not sound like it, because if you're a director 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:40.040 or cinematographer, part of your job is making sure all 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:44.719 the important information for the viewer is available within the frame. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.159 Obviously that's going to be different if the finished product 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:51.440 is to be viewed in portrait mode rather than landscape. 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:53.200 You need to figure out how are you going to 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.400 frame the image so that it works in both formats, 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:58.600 or you might have to use things like pan and 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.840 scan or switching view to get the information across. Right, Like, 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.480 you might have a scene where you have two characters, 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.200 one far left and one far right on the screen. 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:11.199 They're talking to each other, and then landscape mode, that's fine, 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:13.640 you can see it, but you switch into portrait mode 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:16.159 and now there's not enough room on the screen to 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.199 get both characters in frame. What do you do? Do 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:23.159 you have an empty frame where both characters are off screen, 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.639 one off screen left and one off screen right. Do 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:27.960 you just focus on one character and then you switch 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:32.000 whenever the dialogue changes so that you get a different 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.439 view when character one speaks versus character two? Do you 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.760 pan back and forth? Which is that swimmy effect you 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.119 often get if you watch like old old home video, 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:44.680 not home video, but you know videos that were made 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.919 for home video use, you will often get that scanning feature. 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:51.600 Because televisions were in the old four to three aspect 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:56.080 ratio and they couldn't incorporate a wide screen picture unless 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:58.520 they did the bars at the top or bottom or both, 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:00.639 and a lot of people hated them. They wanted to 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:02.679 have the image take up the whole screen. So you 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:08.200 end up having this digital panning, which I absolutely detested. Well, 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.879 you have to make those decisions, or do you end 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:14.560 up blocking all of your shots so that all the 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:18.520 relevant information can be seen in one view, even if 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:20.600 it's portrait, in which case you might just have a 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:24.040 lot of unused space, like negative space in the frame 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.639 if you're watching it widescreen, or maybe you shoot with 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:30.040 multiple cameras so that way, one camera is taking the 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:34.120 landscape version of the shot, one camera's taking the portrait 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:37.080 version of the shot. Like, there's a lot of complex 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:39.320 things you have to think of behind the scenes from 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:44.120 a content creator standpoint, beyond just the technology of if 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:46.720 you turn your phone, you want the frame to be 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:50.960 completely full. So this was a real issue that goes 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.960 a technical challenge, and they did not have enough time 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:55.919 to figure out how to deal with that in a 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.720 way that was satisfying anyway. That whole design decision became 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:02.520 a big hurdle. But another hurdle was that Quibi was 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:05.119 meant to be mobile only by design. It was not 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:08.359 intended to be an app that you would access on 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:12.159 a computer or smart television or streaming box or anything 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:16.199 like that, and something that was outside the control and 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:18.640 not predicted by the folks at Quibi when they were 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:22.520 putting together their business plan was the COVID nineteen pandemic, 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:25.639 which took a lot of us totally by surprise. So 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:29.679 Quibi was really intended to be used for a world 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:32.280 that was on the go, right. The use case was 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:34.800 that you would be out in the real world and 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:37.520 you would have time to kill. Maybe you're waiting in 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:39.800 line of the bank, or maybe you're sitting on a 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:41.800 subway and you're on your way to work and you 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:46.320 just need something to distract you from the tedium of life. Boom. 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.639 Quibi is there to save the day. High production value, 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:53.760 scripted entertainment or you know, like game shows or whatever, 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:56.480 but still high production value, not the type of stuff 0:22:56.480 --> 0:23:00.520 you would see typically on a site like TikTok. Except 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:02.800 the app launch just as the world was shutting down 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:05.400 and going into quarantine in twenty twenty, so the use 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.359 case for the app was no longer relevant at least 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:11.760 not for the several first months of the app's existence. 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:15.280 Plenty of critics said that even without the pandemic, Quibi 0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:18.280 would have just totally failed. But certainly the lockdown was 0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:21.120 a massive blow to the service when there were plenty 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:24.040 of other options folks could access when they were at home. 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.480 Why use Quibi if you have access to Netflix or 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:31.760