1 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: Hey, it's care Price host of tech Stuff. We're taking 2 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: a week off, but we'll have a fresh episode for 3 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: you next Wednesday. You're not gonna want to miss Oz's 4 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: conversation with the CEO of Colossal Biosciences. I know, I 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: was surprised by just how close we may be to 6 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: bringing back the Wooly Mammoth and what that could mean 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: for our planet. So definitely check that out next week. 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: In lieu of headlines today, we wanted to share an 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: episode of tech Stuff from February twenty twenty four about 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: some of the biggest apps to ever flop. The tech 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: industry moves really fast. It always has, but now it 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: feels like it's moving in hyper speed given the popularity 13 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: of vibe coding programs like Cursor, Codex, and Copilot. With 14 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: these tools, you no longer have to be an expert 15 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: software engineer to write code, and now you have to 16 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: be a designer either. Last week, Google launched Stitch, a 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: program that can help you build web or mobile app 18 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: front ends. But just because you can, it doesn't mean 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: you should. In the episode you're about to hear, Jonathan 20 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: Strickland reminds us that not every pitch is a promise, 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: and sometimes the most compelling apps can fail. Take a listen. 22 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 2: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, 23 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 2: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. 24 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 2: I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts. And how the 25 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: tech are yet? So, once upon a time, we used 26 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: to have these things called programs. And I say that 27 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: because now we don't call programs programs anymore. We typically 28 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: call programs apps. I think that really started to become 29 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: a thing upon the ascent of the consumer smartphone, which 30 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 2: was sparked by Apple, which was then cranked up by Android, 31 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: and that we really had the era of the app. 32 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: At that point. We used to, like I said, call 33 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 2: them programs. Now they are applications, whether it's for a 34 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 2: phone or a computer. I guess app stores sounds better 35 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: than program emporium anyway. For thousands of entrepreneurs, the dream 36 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 2: is to build an app and to become rich beyond 37 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: your wildest dreams. Right, You design an app and then 38 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: the money rolls in. Maybe it's because some bigger fish 39 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: out there, like some Google or Apple or Meta, decides 40 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 2: that you're just too good to be left unacquired. And 41 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: then they spend a bucket load of cash on you, 42 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: hopefully ten times more than what you're actually worth. Or 43 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 2: maybe you actually figure out how to be profitable all 44 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 2: on your own, you actually have a business plan and 45 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: you have a way of generating revenue. You would be 46 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 2: the rare Silicon Valley project that actually works as a 47 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: business business on its own. That again is the dream. 48 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: But dreams don't always come true, and sometimes even apps 49 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 2: that seem to be strapped to a rocket for success 50 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: end up blowing up and going up in flames. So 51 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: this episode is about apps that fall into that category, 52 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 2: apps that at one time seemed like they were a 53 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: sure thing, only they flamed out down the line. One 54 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 2: of the apps I originally planned to put on this 55 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 2: list was four square, but as it turns out, that 56 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: app and the company behind it is still chugging along, 57 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: just in a slightly different role than it was before. 58 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: See I remember when four square launched and folks would 59 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 2: use it to check in to locations that they were 60 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 2: visiting in the real world. So some places would even 61 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: start to offer special discounsel right, like twenty percent off 62 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 2: your first drink if you check into the bar via 63 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: four square. Because it was seen as a kind of 64 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: viral marketing. Other folks were worried about the privacy issues 65 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: of this kind of behavior. In fact, some folks created 66 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: a website called Please rob Me, and this site satirically 67 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 2: would scrape data off Twitter for four square check in notifications, 68 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 2: so please rob Me would then list people who were 69 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 2: saying they were not currently at home. Now, the whole 70 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: point wasn't to actually inspire a wave of burglaries, but 71 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 2: rather show why it's dangerous to broadcast your location to 72 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 2: the world in general. Then it might not be a 73 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: good idea, and maybe people should think harder about their 74 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 2: personal privacy. In twenty fourteen, for Square actually changed dramatically. 75 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 2: The company launched a companion app called Swarm Now. This 76 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 2: app contained all the social networking features that for Square 77 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 2: used to have, so all the check in stuff, all 78 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 2: the geolocation stuff that was kind of seen as the 79 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 2: critical element of four square and the one that you 80 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: should be worried about that went to Swarm. For Square 81 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 2: meanwhile became four Square City Guide, which became a discovery 82 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 2: and recommendation app, and it would help you figure out 83 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 2: places that maybe you should visit based upon your past experiences, right, 84 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 2: It would say, Okay, I see that you're in downtown 85 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 2: New York, and because of the places that you used 86 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: to go to in your hometown, here are some places 87 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 2: we think you should probably check out because you'll really 88 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: like them. You didn't have to use both of the 89 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 2: apps if you didn't want to, but they did compliment 90 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 2: one another, So if you used Swarm, four Square would 91 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 2: tap into that check in data to help inform what 92 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: recommendations it should give you. Those apps are still available today. 93 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 2: Like I just thought that four Square had come and 94 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 2: gone because I haven't personally used it in a decade, 95 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,119 Speaker 2: But the fact is it's still a thing. One really 96 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: interesting thing to me is that forour Square's business largely 97 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 2: involves licensing its technology to other companies, which include Uber, Airbnb, Snapchat, 98 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 2: and lots more. The check in feature that four Square 99 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: developed powers numerous other apps. So while our perception was 100 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 2: that four Square was a relic of the past, that's 101 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: just not true. That's totally my misconception there, and again 102 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 2: it's because I haven't really paid attention to four Square 103 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: in a decade. But it is interesting to me that 104 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: you know, they found success in a different way than 105 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: what they set out to do. I still don't have 106 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 2: any real desire to read download either four Square or Swarm. However, 107 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 2: on a related note, there is also the story of 108 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 2: yik Yak. Now, this app actually did flame out, but 109 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 2: then it was resurrected again just a few years ago, 110 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: so for those of y'all who do not know the story, 111 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 2: A couple of guys launched an anonymous location based messaging 112 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: platform back in twenty thirteen, and the way it worked 113 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: was that you would open the app and you would 114 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 2: connect via putting in your phone number. This would end 115 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 2: up allowing you to post to the platform, but you 116 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 2: would only be able to read messages that had been 117 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: posted by people within a certain distance of your physical location, 118 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 2: such as within a five mile radius, and you could 119 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 2: post a message anonymously, and again only people who were 120 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 2: in a five mile radius of your location would be 121 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 2: able to read your message, So as you would travel around, 122 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: you would see new messages, while ones that were now 123 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 2: out of physical range would disappear from view. The focus 124 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 2: on geolocation, coupled with anonymity, made the app extremely popular 125 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: with school campuses, and Yakyak largely catered to that audience. 126 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: This also meant there was a lot of abuse. There 127 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: was no accountability, right, There was no connection to a 128 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: specific person, so people could post the platform and they 129 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: could bully other folks or worse. So there were these 130 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: stories popping up all around the United States about how 131 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 2: the app was bringing out the absolute worst in people 132 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: and endangering folks right Like, let's say that you belonged 133 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 2: to a minority population in a particular campus university of 134 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: Even if someone's not specifically calling you out, it might 135 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 2: be easy to figure out who people are talking about, 136 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 2: which could definitely hurt your mental health, or they could 137 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: even be calling for more extreme acts that could endanger 138 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: your physical health. So pressure built against the company, and 139 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 2: eventually yaikyak cave to it. So in twenty fifteen, Yayik 140 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 2: made a massive change and required users to register a 141 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 2: handle with the site. So all messages now would be 142 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 2: attributed to a handle. They wouldn't be fully anonymous. Now, 143 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: it was still a handle, not your name, so it 144 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: wasn't exactly the same thing as signing your name to 145 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 2: your own words, but it was a lot closer than 146 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 2: what had come before. Hardcore users hated this change, and 147 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 2: eventually yak Yak kind of backed off a bit and 148 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 2: made it an optional feature, but by then the user 149 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 2: base had been alienated and had dwindled, and in twenty seventeen, 150 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: the company announced that the app was shutting down due 151 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: to that dwindling user base. They actually did a sell 152 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: off Square, the company that is behind online payment systems. 153 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 2: They purchased essentially the IP but really more like they 154 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: purchased the engineering talent of YikYak and brought them on board, 155 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 2: and it was for reportedly like just a million dollars, 156 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: which is still a lot of money. Don't get me wrong. 157 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 2: A million dollars is a lot, but it's nothing compared 158 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 2: to what yik yak was valued at a few years earlier. 159 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: And so yak yak effectively stopped being a thing in 160 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, and it stayed in the grave for four years. 161 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 2: But then in February twenty twenty one, a group of 162 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: new owners who remained mysterious and unnamed. Like everywhere I 163 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 2: look to find out who the heck owned yaikyak between 164 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one and twenty twenty three, didn't have information 165 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 2: about that anyway, They purchased yak Yak and announced plans 166 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: to relaunch, and sure enough, late in the summer of 167 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, the app came back. Now two years later, 168 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, another company called side Chat scooped 169 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: up yik Yak now side chats. Shtick was essentially the 170 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 2: same as yak yak. Sidechat had an anonymous posting platform 171 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 2: that largely was targeting college campuses. Side Chat was not 172 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 2: as popular as yak yak. A lot of yak yak 173 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: users felt that Sidechat's user interface was inferior, and initially 174 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 2: yak yak users were getting messages where they were being 175 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 2: urged to migrate to side chat and they hated it. 176 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 2: Eventually that would change, where yik yak would remain a thing, 177 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 2: but effectively transformed into side chat. You know, its interface 178 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,719 Speaker 2: became more of side Chat's interface. By the way, I 179 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: based this all off of blog posts and articles and 180 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 2: message boards because I wasn't onn yik yak at the time, 181 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: so I had no idea of what was going on. 182 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 2: But while the initial yik yak was popular with campuses, 183 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 2: this new version specifically focused on university students, like almost 184 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 2: like exclusively, as opposed to it being a community based 185 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: thing or a regional based thing. It was specifically a 186 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: campus based thing, and occasionally it sounds like it would 187 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 2: even make mistakes and accidentally assign someone to a university 188 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 2: that was not the one they actually went to, which 189 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 2: could be really hairy, right because if I were to 190 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 2: join Yak Yak and it suggested I was a student 191 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 2: at Georgia Tech, that's fighting words because I attended the 192 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 2: University of Georgia. Now that probably means nothing to most 193 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 2: of you, but just know those two schools have had 194 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 2: a long standing rivalry that goes between being you know, 195 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 2: good natured ribbing and genuine, deep seated loathing. So if 196 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 2: you had one student misidentified as going to the other school, 197 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 2: that could be fighting words. Now, I should say that 198 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 2: Yak Yak currently is only back for iOS users, as 199 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 2: I record the podcast. Now, the relaunch did at one 200 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 2: point include Android, and apparently it was only active for 201 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: a very short while before in the spring of twenty 202 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 2: twenty three, the company said that they were shutting down 203 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 2: Android support in order to focus on building out features 204 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 2: for the iOS version. Now, again, I can't check this 205 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 2: app out. I'm an Android user. Plus I'm not a 206 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: college student, so I have to rely on articles and 207 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 2: Reddit posts to read up on it, and it sounds 208 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 2: to me that in the past you could register for 209 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 2: yik yik just with your phone number, but now since 210 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 2: the side chat acquisition, you have to supply a university 211 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 2: email address to create an account university or college email address, 212 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: and if you don't have one of those, you can't 213 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 2: have an account, and that has upset a lot of 214 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: users because it meant that they're one. If they're not 215 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 2: in college, they can't be part of this anymore. Though honestly, 216 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 2: I don't see why you would necessarily want to be, 217 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 2: but then that's probably because I feel a lot of 218 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 2: empathy for the folks who were bullied, but it all 219 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 2: so is a reason. One reason they don't want to 220 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 2: do it anymore is because their actual identity would be 221 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 2: associated with their account, maybe not directly, like the actual 222 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 2: posts would be anonymous, but the site would know who 223 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: you were because you would have an email address tied 224 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 2: to your identity to register for the site. Arguably, you 225 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 2: could say the same thing is true because for the 226 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 2: old version, because you had to supply a phone number, 227 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 2: So unless you're buying burner numbers just for yekiyak, it 228 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 2: would be pretty easy to figure out who you were. 229 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 2: But it also means that if you're not a college student, 230 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 2: or you're not on faculty or staff, then you're completely 231 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 2: out of the loop. There's a lot of competition in 232 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 2: the anonymous message board space these days. Seems to me 233 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 2: that a lot of the companies behind these apps typically 234 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 2: will reach a level of success that brings more attention 235 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 2: to their activities and perhaps their flaws, let's say, and 236 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: then they feel pressure to change things in order to 237 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 2: make their apps less prone to abuse because now people 238 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: are paying attention to them and calling them out. And 239 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 2: then subsequently, after making these changes, the apps decline in 240 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 2: popularity because it turns out the user base the stuff 241 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 2: that they really liked happened to be the same stuff 242 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 2: that also facilitated abuse. Not to say that users all 243 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: enjoyed and piling on folks and abusing people, but that 244 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: the same features that made it easy to abuse folks 245 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 2: were also the features that people just really liked. That 246 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 2: kind of seems to be the life cycle for these 247 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 2: kinds of applications. They launch, they go viral, they get 248 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: really big folks notice that sometimes really awful people are 249 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 2: using that app to do really awful things. The app 250 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 2: then ends up making changes in an effort to not 251 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 2: be held accountable for these things, and then it alienates 252 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 2: the user base, both the good and the bad users. 253 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 2: It then declines in popularity, then it fades into memory, 254 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 2: your rents and you repeat. Now, I can't say for 255 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 2: certain that's what's happening with ya Yak. There are a 256 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: lot of users who say that it's not as good 257 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 2: as it used to be, that they don't see the appeal. 258 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 2: The fact that it doesn't it's not available for Android 259 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 2: users is a huge thing. It means that a large 260 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 2: amount of the population can't even access it. Maybe the 261 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 2: company will manage to relaunch for Android and regain some momentum, 262 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 2: or maybe it's on the path back toward obsolescence. Okay, 263 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 2: we've got more failed apps to talk about. Before we 264 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 2: do that, let's stop for a moment and thank our sponsors. Okay, 265 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 2: we're back. So no list of failed apps would be 266 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: complete without Quibbi. Holy cats, this was a massive whiff 267 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 2: with a whole lot of money and some really heavy 268 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: hitters in both the entertainment and tech industries at the wheel, 269 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: and it's still crashed and burned. It was the brainchild 270 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: of Jeffrey Katzenberg, who had forged a legendary career in Hollywood. 271 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 2: You know, he became really well known at Disney and 272 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 2: then created dream Works. And Quibi was hoping to tap 273 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: into that same magic that Hollywood success and also the 274 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 2: same magic that TikTok moosts. That was the key was 275 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: can we make something inspired by the success of TikTok, 276 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 2: and that was namely short form content, And in the 277 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 2: case of Quibi, the short form would be videos that 278 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 2: would last ten minutes or less. However, unlike TikTok, Quibi 279 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 2: productions would have some serious money behind them. We're talking 280 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: about really high production values, stuff that you would see 281 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 2: that would be akin to a television or film studio. 282 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: And if TikTok could knock him dead with diy shorts 283 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 2: created by just any Yahoo out there, surely an entertainment 284 00:16:55,240 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 2: app with serious Hollywood credentials could make a killing right now. 285 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 2: On the tech side, former HP CEO Meg Whitman was 286 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 2: on board, and Whitman and Katzenberg brainstormed the structure and 287 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 2: execution of Quibbi. They also are argued a lot Witman 288 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 2: would later essentially say that Katzenberg would undermine her decisions 289 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 2: and was micromanaging, and there seemed to be a lot 290 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 2: of bad blood at the top levels at Quibbi, which 291 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 2: was just one of many problems. But the company signed 292 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 2: on various actors, directors, writers, and associated people to create 293 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 2: content for the site. They poured approximately a billion dollars 294 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 2: to that effect. Some of the content created consisted of 295 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 2: standalone short videos right like it was just a one 296 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 2: and done ten minutes or less video, but some were 297 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 2: actually serialized. They were longer pieces and divided up into 298 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 2: ten minute long chapters. This in turn was a really 299 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 2: tricky because, like, if you're gonna divide a movie into 300 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 2: ten minute long chapters a way to entice people to 301 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 2: continue after a chapter is over, and in my opinion, 302 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 2: it becomes like a Dan Brown novel where every chapter 303 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 2: ends in a cliffhanger to try and incentivize people to 304 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 2: go to the next chapter. And personally, I find that 305 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: kind of narrative exhausting and not very satisfying. I am 306 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 2: not a Dan Brown fan, nothing against him, I just 307 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 2: it doesn't appeal to me to end every few pages 308 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 2: with another cliffhanger. Anyway, they also made a really odd 309 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 2: decision when it came to framing, because the whole point 310 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,360 Speaker 2: of Quibi was that it was intended to be consumed 311 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 2: on smartphones. And as I'm sure you're aware, we're used 312 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 2: to watching television programs in landscape format, that is, the 313 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 2: picture is wider than it is tall, right, But for phones, 314 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 2: we often hold phones in portrait mode, where it's taller 315 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 2: than it is wide. Otherwise you have to turn the 316 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 2: dang phone on its side, and there's a chance you'll 317 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 2: end up watching a tiny video with huge black bars 318 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 2: above and below it. So one choice Quibi's founders made 319 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 2: is that all content should be viewable in full screen, 320 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 2: whether the user was holding their phone in portrait or 321 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 2: landscape mode, and that you could switch back and forth. 322 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 2: So you could hold it in portrait mode and then say, 323 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 2: you know what, I don't want to see this in 324 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 2: wide screen, turn your phone landscape. It would switch, and 325 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 2: in both versions the image would completely fill the screen 326 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 2: of your phone. That's a big deal, even though it 327 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 2: might not sound like it, because if you're a director 328 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 2: or cinematographer, part of your job is making sure all 329 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,719 Speaker 2: the important information for the viewer is available within the frame. 330 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 2: Obviously that's going to be different if the finished product 331 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 2: is to be viewed in portrait mode rather than landscape. 332 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 2: You need to figure out how are you going to 333 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 2: frame the image so that it works in both formats, 334 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 2: or you might have to use things like pan and 335 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 2: scan or switching view to get the information across. Right, Like, 336 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 2: you might have a scene where you have two characters, 337 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 2: one far left and one far right on the screen. 338 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 2: They're talking to each other, and then landscape mode, that's fine, 339 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 2: you can see it, but you switch into portrait mode 340 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 2: and now there's not enough room on the screen to 341 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 2: get both characters in frame. What do you do? Do 342 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 2: you have an empty frame where both characters are off screen, 343 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 2: one off screen left and one off screen right. Do 344 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 2: you just focus on one character and then you switch 345 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 2: whenever the dialogue changes so that you get a different 346 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 2: view when character one speaks versus character two? Do you 347 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 2: pan back and forth? Which is that swimmy effect you 348 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 2: often get if you watch like old old home video, 349 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 2: not home video, but you know videos that were made 350 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 2: for home video use, you will often get that scanning feature. 351 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 2: Because televisions were in the old four to three aspect 352 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 2: ratio and they couldn't incorporate a wide screen picture unless 353 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 2: they did the bars at the top or bottom or both, 354 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 2: and a lot of people hated them. They wanted to 355 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 2: have the image take up the whole screen. So you 356 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 2: end up having this digital panning, which I absolutely detested. Well, 357 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 2: you have to make those decisions, or do you end 358 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 2: up blocking all of your shots so that all the 359 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 2: relevant information can be seen in one view, even if 360 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 2: it's portrait, in which case you might just have a 361 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 2: lot of unused space, like negative space in the frame 362 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 2: if you're watching it widescreen, or maybe you shoot with 363 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 2: multiple cameras so that way, one camera is taking the 364 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 2: landscape version of the shot, one camera's taking the portrait 365 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 2: version of the shot. Like, there's a lot of complex 366 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 2: things you have to think of behind the scenes from 367 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 2: a content creator standpoint, beyond just the technology of if 368 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 2: you turn your phone, you want the frame to be 369 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 2: completely full. So this was a real issue that goes 370 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 2: a technical challenge, and they did not have enough time 371 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 2: to figure out how to deal with that in a 372 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 2: way that was satisfying anyway. That whole design decision became 373 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: a big hurdle. But another hurdle was that Quibi was 374 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 2: meant to be mobile only by design. It was not 375 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 2: intended to be an app that you would access on 376 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 2: a computer or smart television or streaming box or anything 377 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 2: like that, and something that was outside the control and 378 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 2: not predicted by the folks at Quibi when they were 379 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: putting together their business plan was the COVID nineteen pandemic, 380 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 2: which took a lot of us totally by surprise. So 381 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 2: Quibi was really intended to be used for a world 382 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 2: that was on the go, right. The use case was 383 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: that you would be out in the real world and 384 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 2: you would have time to kill. Maybe you're waiting in 385 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 2: line of the bank, or maybe you're sitting on a 386 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 2: subway and you're on your way to work and you 387 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 2: just need something to distract you from the tedium of life. Boom. 388 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 2: Quibi is there to save the day. High production value, 389 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 2: scripted entertainment or you know, like game shows or whatever, 390 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 2: but still high production value, not the type of stuff 391 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 2: you would see typically on a site like TikTok. Except 392 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 2: the app launch just as the world was shutting down 393 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 2: and going into quarantine in twenty twenty, so the use 394 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 2: case for the app was no longer relevant at least 395 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: not for the several first months of the app's existence. 396 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 2: Plenty of critics said that even without the pandemic, Quibi 397 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 2: would have just totally failed. But certainly the lockdown was 398 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 2: a massive blow to the service when there were plenty 399 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 2: of other options folks could access when they were at home. 400 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: Why use Quibi if you have access to Netflix or 401 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 2: one of the billion other streaming services that are out 402 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 2: there now. The Verge has an article going through other 403 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 2: reasons why Quibi flopped. The writer Julia Alexander argues in 404 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 2: that piece that one big reason is that none of 405 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 2: the shows on Quibi were particularly good, and that is 406 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 2: a really tough problem. It is hard to convince folks 407 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 2: to flock to your streaming service if the stuff you're 408 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: streaming isn't very entertaining or compelling. Alexander actually says, quote 409 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 2: most titles felt like jokes straight out of thirty Rock 410 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 2: end quoteff if you don't know what that means. Thirty 411 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 2: Rock was this sitcom, a satirical sitcom about creating a 412 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 2: late night comedy variety show akin to Saturday Night Live, 413 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 2: and often the show was joking about different shows that 414 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: the network was launching, and they were always ridiculous, and 415 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 2: you know, you would never really expect to see such 416 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 2: a show in the real world. Well, Quibi apparently brought 417 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 2: those kinds of shows to the real world. Initially, Quibi 418 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 2: offered a free subscription for a few months to early users, 419 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 2: kind of a trial period, but once that trial period 420 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 2: ran out, users were then given the option to subscribe 421 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 2: to the service either for five dollars a month, which 422 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 2: was an ad supported experience, or eight dollars a month 423 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 2: if you wanted to be free of ads. But since, 424 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 2: as Alexander points out, there really wasn't much compelling content 425 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 2: on the streaming service, most folks declined the offer once 426 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 2: it stopped being They were like, that's it, I'm out, 427 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 2: there's nothing here to keep me here. Julia Alexander also 428 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 2: argues that Quibi was doomed even if there had never 429 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 2: been a pandemic, and it's quite possible that she was right, because, 430 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 2: as we do know, Katzenberg and Whitman were at odds 431 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 2: with each other. There was a lack of good content 432 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 2: on Quibi, there were a lot of other competing services 433 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 2: already out there, and there weren't a lot of good 434 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 2: arguments to say why use Quibi when there are these 435 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 2: other alternatives, right, And to Alexander's point, the people at 436 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 2: Quibi never really settled on what Quibi actually was, or 437 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 2: what it was for, or what its mission was. And 438 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 2: because there was this lack of clarity, there was really 439 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 2: little chance of success. Now we'll never know if Quibi 440 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 2: would have succeeded had there not been a pandemic, or 441 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 2: if it would have survived, but we do know that 442 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 2: Quibi launched on April sixth, twenty twenty, and it was 443 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 2: shut down by December of twenty. It didn't even make 444 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 2: it a full year. And considering how much money was 445 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: behind that app, like, remember, this is an app that 446 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: spent a billion dollars just on the content, that's not 447 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 2: even on the engineering or anything else. Well, that's a 448 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 2: massive flop, like big time flop in the tech world. 449 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 2: And while we're on the subject of short form entertainment, 450 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 2: let's talk about a precursor to TikTok, something that kind 451 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 2: of was forging the path that other services like TikTok 452 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 2: or Instagram reels would follow. And I'm talking about the 453 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 2: venerable and missed app Vine, at least it's missed by 454 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 2: some people, including me. So in twenty twelve, Don Hoffman, 455 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 2: Colin Krol, and russ Yusupov developed and launched the app Vine. Now, 456 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 2: for those of y all who have never experienced Vine, 457 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: it was a short form video app where you could 458 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 2: record and then post a six second video clip and 459 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 2: it would automatically loop once it reached the end, so 460 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 2: it would play out the six seconds or however long 461 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 2: it was. It could be less than six seconds, and 462 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 2: then once it was at the end, it would start 463 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 2: over again until you scrolled to the next you know, Vine. 464 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 2: And this made the app ideal for meme worthy content, 465 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 2: so it was great for stuff like pranks or funny 466 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 2: visual gags or amazing feats of skill, like if someone was, 467 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 2: you know, shooting a basketball from half court and sinking 468 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 2: it perfectly, nothing but net perfect Vine, right. And it 469 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 2: also meant that folks started to get really creative. They 470 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 2: started to look at Vine as sort of a challenging 471 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 2: platform and they wanted to create content specifically for it, 472 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 2: and they would create six second long stories, typically comedic. Right. 473 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 2: You'd have a setup and then a punchline and it 474 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 2: would all take place in six seconds, but sometimes it 475 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 2: would include things like scene changes. This was not easy 476 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 2: to do in Vine because there were no real editing 477 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 2: tools to speak of within the app. You could record, 478 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 2: then you could pause recording, and then you could start 479 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 2: recording again. But you had just that six seconds to 480 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 2: do everything, and you couldn't cut and edit clips together. 481 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 2: So if you had like a really good take in 482 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 2: the first three seconds of one version and a really 483 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 2: good conclusion in the last three seconds of another version, 484 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 2: you couldn't pair those together. You had to get it 485 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: all done in one go, which meant if you made 486 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 2: a mistake, your options were either post the imperfect version 487 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 2: or keep trying till you got it right. Even so, 488 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 2: with these restrictions, folks flocked to Vine to make some 489 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 2: pretty amazing short videos, and they ranged all over the place. 490 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: I mostly think of the comedic ones, but there were 491 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 2: other ones too. There were some that weren't, you know, comedic. 492 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 2: They were like heartwarming or you know, they might make 493 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 2: you weepy, depending upon the content. Vine was a phenomenon 494 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 2: shortly after launching in of twenty twelve, and it was 495 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: enough to convince Twitter to acquire the company in October 496 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 2: of twenty twelve for thirty million smackaroos, which is not 497 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 2: bad for a newly launched app. A couple of years later, 498 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 2: in twenty fourteen, some successful Vine creators all banded together 499 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 2: to move into an apartment complex which became kind of 500 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 2: a ragtag collaborative studio in a sense, and they found 501 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 2: further exposure on mainstream media. Like their success on Vine 502 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 2: translated to larger platforms like classic ones on television. But 503 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 2: even by twenty fourteen, things were starting to get rocky 504 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 2: for Vine. One major reason is that Vine was in 505 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 2: trouble due to hefty competition. You see, the same year 506 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 2: that Vine launched, back in twenty twelve, Meta which at 507 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 2: that point was just known as Facebook, acquired Instagram for 508 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,479 Speaker 2: a billion smack aarreous that's really a princely sum. And 509 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 2: then in twenty thirteen, Instagram introduced the ability to post 510 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 2: video clips of up to fifteen seconds in length, so 511 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 2: already more than twice as long as a Vine. Instagram 512 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 2: also already had a huge user base, which was made 513 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 2: even larger by Facebook's integration, and it took a big 514 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 2: old gulp of Vine's milkshake as a result. Now, this 515 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 2: move should not have surprised anyone, because even Back then, 516 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 2: Facebook already had a reputation for scooping up companies that 517 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 2: could otherwise distract Facebook users. Instagram was actually a great 518 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 2: example of this. Instagram was one of those acquisitions where 519 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 2: Facebook says, Oh, this other app is starting to get 520 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 2: people's attention, which means their attention isn't on our website, 521 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 2: which means we're not making money from them. I don't 522 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: like that. Let's fix it. And Facebook typically had one 523 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 2: of two ways that they would fix this problem. They 524 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 2: would buy the company and incorporate it into Facebook's corporate structure, 525 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 2: and thus it became a bonus. It was added to 526 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 2: Facebook's value, it was no longer taking away. Or they 527 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 2: could copy it, and if they copied it, then they 528 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 2: could undermine their competitor. And in the case of Vine, 529 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 2: Facebook shows that option. They would just mimic the defining 530 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 2: features of the competitor, either in Facebook or in one 531 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 2: of their other properties, and they would try to sap 532 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 2: the user base back over to Facebook without having to 533 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 2: buy the competition. That's kind of what was going on 534 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 2: with Vine, and it worked. The money began to shift 535 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 2: from Vine to Instagram, and that money was largely coming 536 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 2: out of marketing departments. So brands were partnering with popular 537 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 2: creators in an effort to manufacture some viral marketing campaigns. 538 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 2: And these could be really cost effective, right, Like, if 539 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 2: you're a creator, a deal might land you a ton 540 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 2: of money, but that ton of money would still be 541 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 2: tied up compared to what a traditional mainstream marketing campaign 542 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 2: would cost a company. So then there you go. That's 543 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 2: where the money was for Vine. But then Instagram was 544 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 2: offering a longer form factor, right, more than twice as 545 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 2: long as what a Vine was, and that was far 546 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 2: more attractive to a lot of marketers out there. Like 547 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 2: when you're talking fifteen seconds, you're talking half of a 548 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 2: traditional television commercial. So the shift of money and influence 549 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 2: meant that creators would also jump ship from Vine to 550 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 2: Instagram or in some cases to other platforms like YouTube. Now, 551 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 2: not everyone did it, but it was really challenging to 552 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 2: go in for that small pool of money that was 553 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 2: still available for Vine creators. And it was also scary 554 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 2: to port your work from one platform to another because 555 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 2: there was no guarantee the audience would follow. Right. Just 556 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 2: because you were popular on Vine doesn't mean you're going 557 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 2: to find the same success If you move over to 558 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 2: Instagram or to YouTube. You know, some folks could do that, 559 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 2: and maybe they would lose some of their audience, but 560 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 2: they would have enough to be able to not lose 561 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 2: too much momentum. For others, it would mean having to 562 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 2: start from scratch, and there's no guarantee that you'll strike 563 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 2: gold twice. But since that pool of money was getting 564 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 2: smaller and smaller over at Vine, most creators didn't need 565 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 2: a lot of convincing they had to switch or else 566 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 2: they weren't going to make any money anyway. So Vine 567 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 2: went into further decline, and in twenty sixteen, Twitter announced 568 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 2: it was going to shut down Vine, which happened in 569 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 2: early twenty seventeen. And we can still feel the influence 570 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 2: of Vine today in the form of Instagram reels and 571 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 2: TikTok videos, and it's possible that neither of those things 572 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 2: would have happened without Vine. And I know lots of 573 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 2: folks who to this day lament the loss of Vine. 574 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 2: So farewell Vine. We hardly knew Yee, Okay, we're going 575 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 2: to take another quick break. When we come back, We've 576 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 2: got a couple more examples I really want to talk about, Okay, 577 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 2: let's talk about some more fails, and this next one 578 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 2: is one that I absolutely loved, even as I recognized 579 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 2: that it was a hot mess from the get go 580 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 2: and it probably wasn't a practical solution for ninety nine 581 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 2: percent of the population out there. So I'm talking about 582 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 2: Google Wave, And honestly, I could do a full episode 583 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 2: just about Google apps that have come and gone, and 584 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 2: in fact, I actually have done that at least once 585 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 2: or twice in the past. But Google Wave has a 586 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 2: special place in my heart. So Google launched this bizarre 587 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 2: app back in two thousand and nine, and it was 588 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 2: a real time online collaborative tool, and it was kind 589 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 2: of like a Frankenstein's Monster of features. There were elements 590 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,439 Speaker 2: of email worked in there, Instant messaging was worked in there, 591 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 2: online word processing, and lots more. 592 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: So. 593 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 2: You could create a document in Google Wave, you could 594 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 2: invite online collaborators and all of you could work within 595 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 2: that document at the same time, and you would be 596 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 2: able to see what others were doing in the document, 597 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 2: like word by word. You could watch as they made 598 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 2: typos and corrected and stuff. It was all going at 599 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 2: the same time, and the app would also keep a 600 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 2: history of all the changes made to the document. So 601 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 2: maybe someone's going off the rails right and you're like, no, wait, 602 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 2: we can't none of this is working for this document. 603 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 2: You could actually wind things back to an earlier version. Now. 604 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 2: I only used Google Wave with one other person, who 605 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 2: was my former co host, Chris Pillette. We used Google 606 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 2: Wave to build out a run of show for a 607 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 2: streaming video series we used to do way back in 608 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 2: the day. So once a week we would do a 609 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 2: streaming video that was kind of like a tech news 610 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 2: program live on TV in the middle of the day 611 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 2: Eastern time, and we would use Google Wave to organize 612 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 2: our show and even to make changes on the fly 613 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 2: while streaming our video content. And it was an ideal 614 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 2: tool for that situation. The trouble was, I couldn't figure 615 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 2: out any other use case where it would really makes 616 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 2: sense for me, just this one thing I would do 617 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 2: once a week for my job. For a lot of 618 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 2: folks out there, they never found a good use for 619 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 2: Google Wave. By the way, I really miss that streaming 620 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 2: video show. One of the fun things that we used 621 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 2: to have and that show is that occasionally either Matt Frederick, 622 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 2: one of the hosts of Stuff they don't want you 623 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 2: to know would do this, or sometimes Tyler Klaig, who's 624 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 2: now like the head of our podcast production. Both of 625 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 2: them are still with the company. I would do a 626 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 2: tweet of the week segment and they would hold up 627 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 2: a little bird on a stick. They would be out 628 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 2: of frame and they would poke a bird out stick 629 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,399 Speaker 2: to be in front of my face and they would 630 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 2: make a tweet sound, which just shows how far those 631 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 2: guys have come since we were doing the streaming news show. Anyway, 632 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,399 Speaker 2: features in Google Wave would eventually find their way into 633 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 2: lots of other Google applications, but Google Wave itself was 634 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 2: just not very long for this world. Google supported it 635 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 2: for about a year. Then they essentially he said, you 636 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 2: know what, this isn't working for us, and they shifted 637 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 2: it off to the Apache Software Foundation in twenty ten. 638 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 2: Folks suggested that Google's decision was due to lots of 639 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 2: converging reasons, ranging from just a confusing interface that was 640 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 2: turning away new users to internal conflicts that were happening 641 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 2: within the development team, especially at the leadership level. There 642 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 2: were stories that there were leaders who were disagreeing on 643 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 2: what Google Wave was even supposed to be, which meant 644 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 2: that the development team was put in this really difficult 645 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 2: position in the middle to try and create all things 646 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 2: for all people, which was impossible, so they ended up 647 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 2: creating something that was for nobody. But even the Apache 648 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 2: Wave version is no more. The nonprofit group had Wave 649 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 2: in an incubator status for almost a decade, but in 650 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,800 Speaker 2: twenty eighteen the Wave became still waters because development ceased 651 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 2: and Wave just never graduated out of that incubator status. Now, 652 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 2: I can't say that I would still be using Wave 653 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 2: to this day if it were still around, but that's 654 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,479 Speaker 2: mostly because tech stuff is a pretty simple project. I research, write, 655 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 2: and record all the episodes, and then super producer Tari 656 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 2: she edits and publishes the episodes, so there is collaboration there. 657 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 2: Tari and I do collaborate, but it's divided really neatly 658 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 2: into a production phase and a post production phase. Perhaps 659 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 2: if I were more actively working on shows that had 660 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,239 Speaker 2: multiple collaborators, I would feel Waves loss more keenly. But 661 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 2: I really liked using it, even while I recognized how 662 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 2: weird and janky it was. Now this list could go 663 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 2: on much much longer, but I figure I'll conclude with 664 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 2: a rock Star like story, and that story involves a 665 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 2: company called pay by Touch. While most of the apps 666 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 2: I've talked about so far were ones that you would 667 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 2: either use on your phone or on your computer, pay 668 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 2: by Touch was different. Okay, it was an app that 669 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 2: was a service, and this service would let you pay 670 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 2: for purchases at a point of sale, primarily in places 671 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 2: like supermarkets here in the United States. You had to 672 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,399 Speaker 2: do was swipe your finger on a fingerprint sensor at 673 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 2: the cash register, and your biometric data would correspond to 674 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,839 Speaker 2: your pay by Touch account, and an electronic transaction would 675 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 2: take care of your grocery bill by deducting it from 676 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 2: your checking account or from a credit card, and you 677 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 2: could go on your merry way without ever having to 678 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 2: hand over cash or write a check or use a 679 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 2: credit card physically. Just swipe your finger, good to go. 680 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 2: This was the future, and it was all in two 681 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 2: thousand and two. The idea of having your financials directly 682 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,880 Speaker 2: tied to your own identity was one that had been 683 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 2: around for a while but not really accomplished. So again, 684 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 2: it was really considered to be convenient, and you could 685 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 2: even tie your biometrics to things like a store loyalty account. 686 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 2: So by using your fingerprint. You could then apply discounts 687 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 2: or coupons to whatever it was you were buying. And 688 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 2: this was coming out in two thousand and two, you like, 689 00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 2: five years before we would get the first iPhone, So 690 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,800 Speaker 2: these d You know, obviously, we have lots of contactless 691 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 2: payment solutions, mostly tied to mobile phones, but back in 692 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 2: two thousand and two, this was really revolutionary. Now, the 693 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,879 Speaker 2: services did face challenges. One big one was that folks 694 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 2: were a little anxious about having their money tied to 695 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 2: their fingerprints. There seemed to be something invasive about that. Heck, 696 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 2: if you're the type of person who prefers to use 697 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 2: cash for your transactions, it absolutely goes against your preferences. Also, 698 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 2: the thought of a third party company potentially having insight 699 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 2: into your purchase history seemed creepy. But despite the slow 700 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,320 Speaker 2: going and low adoption rate, pay by Touch did grow 701 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 2: and got lots of investors. It expanded its business into 702 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 2: various supermarket chains. But then the company would ultimately declare 703 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,280 Speaker 2: bankruptcy in two thousand and eight. So what happened, Well, 704 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 2: part of what happened was a failure to communicate to 705 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 2: the public the benefits of this system. Just really bad 706 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,959 Speaker 2: marketing and education the concept again including things like tying 707 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 2: biometrics to loyalty programs and stuff that just didn't really 708 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:02,839 Speaker 2: get communicated effectively in most locations, and some stores were 709 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 2: just using the system for loyalty programs and customers would 710 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 2: still pay for their purchases using more traditional means. So 711 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 2: there was this element of distrust that the company was 712 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 2: never able to overcome, possibly for good reason, because another 713 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 2: big reason for the company's failure was in its leadership. 714 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 2: The CEO of the company was a guy named John P. Rogers, 715 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 2: and he had had some trouble with the law that 716 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,240 Speaker 2: largely went unnoticed when he was getting investments for his company. 717 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,840 Speaker 2: At least a couple of women had accused him of 718 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 2: violent behavior, one saying that he had abused her, the 719 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,879 Speaker 2: other saying he had trashed her home. Both of them 720 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 2: had been connected romantically with him. He had also been 721 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 2: pulled over by police and arrested on suspicion of driving 722 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 2: under the influence of cocaine, and apparently he was known 723 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,640 Speaker 2: to have had issues with drug addiction. Investigation suggested that 724 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 2: Rogers had been rather extravagant with corporate funds that he 725 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 2: had spearheaded efforts to convince those with really deep pockets 726 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 2: to invest in Pay by Touch that paid off in dividends. 727 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 2: He raised around three hundred and forty million dollars, but 728 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,440 Speaker 2: by two thousand and eight the coffers were empty, and 729 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 2: the investigation suggested that one reason for this was that 730 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,440 Speaker 2: Rogers appeared to have been dipping into corporate funds to 731 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 2: pay for an extravagant lifestyle, complete with drug use. And 732 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 2: when I say extravagant, I mean that the investigation suggested 733 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 2: he was burning around eight million dollars a month, which 734 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 2: is a lot of money. And it would turn out 735 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,200 Speaker 2: that Rogers had a history of failed businesses, something that 736 00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,319 Speaker 2: no one had really noticed when Pay by Touch was 737 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 2: just getting off the ground. He had managed to keep 738 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 2: his history kind of out of the spotlight, and investors 739 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,800 Speaker 2: didn't ask any tough questions. They just were excited about 740 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 2: this potential opportunity to completely revolutionize the way we pay 741 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 2: for stuff at retail locations. Obviously that was key to 742 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 2: him securing investments. Ultimately, pay by Touch went could put. 743 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 2: Some investors pursued civil litigation against the company and against Rogers, 744 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 2: but he never faced criminal charges. For how things went 745 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 2: down which is kind of wild. I wasn't there, so 746 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,839 Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe the evidence was all circumstantial, maybe 747 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 2: there was not a solid case against him, But it 748 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 2: does seem to fall in line with the perception that 749 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 2: the rules are different depending upon who you are and 750 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 2: your station in life. I don't know if that's actually 751 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,240 Speaker 2: the case in this particular instance, but on the surface 752 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 2: it seems to reinforce that idea anyway. That is just 753 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 2: a quick list of some major apps that received a 754 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 2: lot of attention but ultimately flamed out. As I said, 755 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,040 Speaker 2: we could go on much much longer with this list. 756 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 2: There are tons of other examples, and I'll probably do 757 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 2: more episodes about them in the future. And you should 758 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,920 Speaker 2: expect these kind of things, right because again, creating an 759 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:59,279 Speaker 2: app is seen as one of those gateways toward insane 760 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 2: so excess in Silicon Valley, like it seems like everyone 761 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:08,120 Speaker 2: in Silicon Valley is behind some sort of app, and 762 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,839 Speaker 2: we might only hear about a small percentage of them. 763 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,200 Speaker 2: Some of those cases are because the app is just 764 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 2: so incredible and useful that it's undeniable how valuable. It is. 765 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,240 Speaker 2: In other cases, it might be that it's a peculiarity, 766 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,400 Speaker 2: and it gets some momentary notice, and then ultimately that 767 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 2: doesn't stand the test of time, and in a few 768 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 2: cases it may just be notorious and infamous, as I 769 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 2: would argue the pay by Touch story ultimately became once 770 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:41,279 Speaker 2: the history of Rogers became more public knowledge. Anyway, I 771 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,800 Speaker 2: hope you enjoyed this episode. I hope you are all well, 772 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:54,359 Speaker 2: and I will talk to you again really soon. Tech 773 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 2: Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 774 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 2: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 775 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 2: listen to your favorite shows.