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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: The phone call that President Trump had with Russian President

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Speaker 2: Vladimir Putin earlier today, the readout from the White House

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Speaker 2: has just hit. It reads in part today, President Trump

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Speaker 2: and Putin spoke about the need for peace and he

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Speaker 2: ceasefire in the Ukraine War. Both leaders agreed this conflict

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Speaker 2: needs to end with the lasting piece. They also stressed

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Speaker 2: the need for improved bilateral relations between the United States

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Speaker 2: and Russia. Putin and Trump agreed to start talks on

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Speaker 2: a Black Sea security agreement. Again, the need for a

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Speaker 2: ceasefire and peace. But this is a little bit different

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Speaker 2: in tone than what we're seeing out of the Kremlin

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Speaker 2: side of things. According to IFx, the Kremlin said specifically

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Speaker 2: that foreign weapons aid to Ukraine should end, though they do.

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Speaker 2: According to the Kremlin, Putin backs the idea of not

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Speaker 2: hitting energy objects for thirty days, keeping in mind to

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Speaker 2: thirty day ceasefires what Ukraine and US officials outlined.

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Speaker 3: In Saudi Arabia. Yeah, this is the news here. You

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Speaker 3: can read all you want about hopes for peace, about

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Speaker 3: some of their posturing here, but the leaders agreed the

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Speaker 3: movement will begin with an energy and infrastructure cease fire,

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Speaker 3: technical negotiations on implementation of a maritime ceasefire in the

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Speaker 3: Black Sea, leading to a full cease fire. The readout

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Speaker 3: says these negotiations will begin immediately in the Middle East,

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Speaker 3: presumably back to Saudi Arabia and Kaylee where this began.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly, we've already seen two rounds of discussions held

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Speaker 2: separately with Russian officials and Ukrainian officials, with the US

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Speaker 2: at the table, and I guess the question becomes, is

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Speaker 2: there a part a point at which all three parties

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Speaker 2: come together these continue to be.

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Speaker 3: Done kind of well, that is a huge question here

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Speaker 3: as they talk about again the Middle East as a

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Speaker 3: region for potential cooperation to prevent future conflicts, going on

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Speaker 3: to talk about maybe economic cooperation, but of course ending

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Speaker 3: Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Kley is what this is supposed

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Speaker 3: to be all about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we want to add the voice of Ashley

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Speaker 2: Davis in here as well. Ashley, Obviously, President Trump has

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Speaker 2: made no secret of the fact that he wants to

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Speaker 2: get a deal done. Is having an agreement for an

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Speaker 2: energy oriented ceasefire for some period of time enough a

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Speaker 2: victory for today.

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Speaker 4: I'm actually a little surprised. I mean, I'm reading this

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Speaker 4: as you guys are. I would think that the President

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Speaker 4: is probably a little bothered that he didn't get a

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Speaker 4: complete ceasefire. But this is obviously the first step. I mean,

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Speaker 4: what his big concentration has been on, at least publicly,

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Speaker 4: has been the killing of human beings and soldiers in Ukraine,

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Speaker 4: so that obviously has not happened in regards to stopping fighting.

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Speaker 4: But some of the infrastructure that there can concerned about

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Speaker 4: is at least starting at a ceasefire. So listen, is

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Speaker 4: it sixty percent there? But listen, we're making progress. We

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Speaker 4: didn't make progress for three years, so I mean, obviously

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Speaker 4: the devil is in the details.

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Speaker 3: But what do you think, Genie, about what you're hearing

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Speaker 3: right now? This is our first chance to take a

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Speaker 3: glance at the readout. We'll probably hear more from the

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Speaker 3: President at some point. As we've mentioned, we've got a

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Speaker 3: rise on truth social but an energy and infrastructure cease fire.

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Speaker 3: There's no mention of divvying up land, as Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: suggested last weekend.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it suggests again. And I'm just like

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Speaker 5: Ashley said, just still trying to read through what the

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Speaker 5: little bits we're getting now. But it looks like they

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Speaker 5: didn't discusch see all the important issue or couldn't come

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Speaker 5: to an agreement on the land portion of this, And

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Speaker 5: of course that has been an enormous concern of both

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Speaker 5: Putin and the Russians and z Lenski and the Ukrainians.

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Speaker 5: You know, talking is better than not talking. They seem

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Speaker 5: to be making some progress, is to be believed, but

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Speaker 5: just to put in there, Zelenski, the Ukrainians are deeply

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Speaker 5: concerned that these pauses that Putin may or may not

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Speaker 5: agree to are really just time for him to better

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Speaker 5: position himself militarily ahead of resuming the fighting. And of

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Speaker 5: course they are also concerned that their views on what

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Speaker 5: should and should not happen are not being heated. And

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Speaker 5: so you know, there's a long way to go. The

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Speaker 5: problem with bilateral discussions between the US and Russia, the

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Speaker 5: US and Ukraine is that this is really between Ukraine

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Speaker 5: and Russia, and those two are not coming face to

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Speaker 5: face yet to have these discussions. So I think we

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Speaker 5: have a bit of a ways to go before we

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Speaker 5: see a real concerted pause in the fighting.

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Speaker 2: Well, if we still have a ways to go, I

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Speaker 2: wonder how ahead we seem to be getting on the

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Speaker 2: US Russia relationship. As a headline from the Kremlin just

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Speaker 2: cross that also discussed was cooperation and energy and on

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Speaker 2: economic matters, Ashley, can we really get back to a

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Speaker 2: more normal US Russia relationship without a full ceasefire, not

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Speaker 2: just starting with energy and infrastructure.

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Speaker 4: I think this is what the fine line that the

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Speaker 4: President's trying to walk, because if we're not going to

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Speaker 4: give any more aid, which is obviously very unpopular in

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Speaker 4: this country as a whole, then what will happen to

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Speaker 4: Ukraine if we stop giving aid? I mean, will Europe

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Speaker 4: step up? That's one question. However, and I've been saying

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Speaker 4: this for a few weeks now. This is one chess

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Speaker 4: move and a bigger match. I think that he is

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Speaker 4: starting to build some sort of relationship with Putin. Keep

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Speaker 4: your enemies close because the endgame is really China. China.

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Speaker 2: Putin as an enemy, because he doesn't often speak of him.

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Speaker 5: In those ways.

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Speaker 4: I think that this is a negotiation. I think that

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Speaker 4: to isolate him and not have any discussions, I mean,

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Speaker 4: and George Bush did the same thing, Obama did the

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Speaker 4: same thing. To isolate him is probably not the way

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Speaker 4: to go when you have bigger issues around the world.

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Speaker 4: In regards to if China and Russia are allies together

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Speaker 4: fighting the rest of the world in Iran and Iraq

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Speaker 4: and North Korea, that's not good for America. So peeling

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Speaker 4: off Putin, or at least minimizing Putin a little bit,

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Speaker 4: can be helpful for that bigger geopolitical issue.

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Speaker 3: They spend almost as much time talking about the Middle

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Speaker 3: East in this readout as they do Ukraine Genie. The

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Speaker 3: leaders spoke broadly, according to the White House, about the

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Speaker 3: Middle East as a region of potential cooperation to prevent

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Speaker 3: future conflicts. Going on to write, the two leaders share

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Speaker 3: the view that Iran should never be in a position

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Speaker 3: to destroy Israel. Yesterday we spent a lot of time

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Speaker 3: talking about a potential preemptive strike against Iran. Some of

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Speaker 3: the hot talk that we've heard from President Trump with

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Speaker 3: regard to their being able to access a nuclear weapon

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Speaker 3: and essentially Tehran thumbing its nose at creating a new

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Speaker 3: relationship with the US. What do you make of the

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Speaker 3: inclusion of this line in a readout of a phone

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Speaker 3: call about Ukraine.

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Speaker 5: I think this was critically important for the White House.

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Speaker 5: They wanted to get this in here. I mean, we

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Speaker 5: saw the attacks on the hoo Thies over the weekend.

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Speaker 5: We know that they have been trying to approach Iran

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Speaker 5: about their nuclear weapons. We know Iran is without defense

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Speaker 5: right now, and of course isolating Iran and befriending Puhin

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Speaker 5: would be a big coup for the White House. That said,

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Speaker 5: what's fascinating too is to think about the juxtaposition Donald Trump.

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Speaker 5: When it comes to Ukraine, he really wants peace at

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Speaker 5: any cost, but when it comes to what's going on

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Speaker 5: in the Gaza Strip, it is peace with a cost,

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Speaker 5: and that is a big, big distinction, And you have

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Speaker 5: to ask yourself why. I agree with Ashley he would

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Speaker 5: like to pivot to China, but so far the administration

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Speaker 5: has taken very few steps in that direction. Maybe we

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Speaker 5: see that going forward.

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Speaker 6: Well.

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Speaker 2: And also, as Genie points out, the administration as a whole,

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Speaker 2: we should consider the other characters in this than the

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Speaker 2: President himself. Steve Whitcoff, for example, has a hand in

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Speaker 2: both of these theaters. He was in Moscow, but he

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Speaker 2: also has been actively involved in the Middle East that

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Speaker 2: is actually technically what he was envoy for, whereas Keith

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Speaker 2: Kellogg is no longer envoy for both Russia and Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: It's just Ukraine only now. Who are going to be

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Speaker 2: the decisive people to watch moving forward?

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Speaker 4: Ashley, I think the President. I also think the Vice

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Speaker 4: President will continue to play a role. I mean, his

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Speaker 4: role in this international theater has been very interesting. I

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Speaker 4: also think the National Security Advisor, well, you know the Waltz,

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Speaker 4: former Congressman Waltz from Florida. So I think there's many

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Speaker 4: different dynamois. Obviously Secretuary Rubio there are going to be.

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Speaker 4: But listen, I think Trump's this is something very personal

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Speaker 4: to him, both the Middle East and Russia Ukraine. I

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Speaker 4: think He's going to continue to stay very very involved.

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Speaker 2: All right, Ashley Davis and Jeanie Shanzo our political panel today,

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Speaker 2: as we deal with this breaking news again the US

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Speaker 2: and Russia. In this phone call between Trump and Putin

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Speaker 2: deciding a ceasefire thirty day seasfire will begin with energy

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Speaker 2: and infrastructure, though talks on a full Ukraine ceasefire will

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Speaker 2: start immediately. According to the readout.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcasts. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm. E's den

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: So for more we go to the White House. We're

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Speaker 2: joining us live as Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall. So, Tyler, obviously

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Speaker 2: we have more information than we were working with some

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Speaker 2: time ago. Is the White House framing this is a

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Speaker 2: good thing for President Trump? Did he accomplish what he

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Speaker 2: wanted to today?

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Speaker 7: Right, Kaylely. So far all we've gone in is this readout,

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Speaker 7: But the White House did go into this meeting rather

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Speaker 7: optimistic about the chances to come out with something tangible.

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Speaker 7: Interestingly enough, as you've been discussing the statement, talking about

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Speaker 7: how both sides agree that there needs to be a

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Speaker 7: lasting piece, that already is raising questions about what that

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Speaker 7: lasting piece will look like. Considering we know that Vladimir

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Speaker 7: Putin is against putting peacekeepers on the ground in Ukraine,

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Speaker 7: something that our European allies have been pushing for. Ukraine

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Speaker 7: has been pushing for trying to get what sort of

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Speaker 7: firmer security guarantees we could see from the White House.

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Speaker 7: We also saw on this read out that they are

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Speaker 7: stressing this renewal in bilateral relations after there really hasn't

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Speaker 7: been much direct contact with Moscow in recent years. Of course,

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Speaker 7: these direct talks are reversing what was a longstanding US

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Speaker 7: policy not to negotiate directly with Russia. I mentioned earlier

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Speaker 7: this hour that I had spoken to one foreign policy

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Speaker 7: experts who said that this really is going to come

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Speaker 7: down to a tight rope walk act for Russia, because

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Speaker 7: the Kremlin does want to renew these bilateral relations with

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Speaker 7: Washington as it seeks, for example, greater access to Western

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Speaker 7: financial markets. And I wanted to pull out one quote

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Speaker 7: that you guys have already mentioned, this idea that the

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Speaker 7: leaders agreed to quote the movement to peace will begin

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Speaker 7: with the energy and infrastructure ceasefire, as well as technical

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Speaker 7: negotiations on the implementation of a maritime cecon. You'll recall

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Speaker 7: this actually mirrors very closely. That peace plan that Zelensky

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Speaker 7: had put forward to our European allies the day after

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Speaker 7: that Oval Office meeting devolved here in Washington. Zelensky had

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Speaker 7: floated that he wanted to first see a ceasefire in

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Speaker 7: the sky and the sea, as he called it. It

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Speaker 7: does appear that that message, at least so far, has gotten.

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Speaker 3: Through Tyler optics everything on a day like this at

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Speaker 3: the White House. We haven't seen President Trump yet, and

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Speaker 3: there's no indication on the guidance that we saw earlier

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Speaker 3: that that would happen. Are we hearing anything about a

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Speaker 3: news conference, a statement from Donald Trump or any of

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Speaker 3: his surrogates who might be speaking more about this.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 7: We are of course watching closely his Truth social platform,

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Speaker 7: where he often comes out to give us his personal

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Speaker 7: take on how the readout could go. Still on the

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Speaker 7: schedule is a three point thirty pm Eastern Executive order signing.

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Speaker 7: As of now, it remains closed press, but we'll have

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Speaker 7: to see if that perhaps opens up, as these events

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Speaker 7: typically do, for President Trump to come out and make

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Speaker 7: this statement. We'll be watching closely all of the senior

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Speaker 7: administration officials today. Earlier we heard, for example, from Treasury

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Speaker 7: Secretary Scott Besson, who said that on the table was

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Speaker 7: the potential for the US to ramp up sanctions. He said,

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Speaker 7: they're currently at a level six. We could see them

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Speaker 7: go up to as high as a level ten if

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Speaker 7: that's what it takes to get Russia to the negotiating table.

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Speaker 7: As of now, it appears that there has been forward movement,

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Speaker 7: at least according to this US readout, So perhaps that

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Speaker 7: is not the path forward that the US is going

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Speaker 7: to have to take. But we're still watching closely what

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Speaker 7: other concessions, with other ideas we can get out that

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Speaker 7: this pair spoke about on the phone call.

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Speaker 3: Today, Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall live at the White House with

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Speaker 3: the readout in hand, following President Trump's telephone call with

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Speaker 3: Vladimir Putin more than an hour and a half long.

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Speaker 3: Dan Flatley is back with US now in studio here

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Speaker 3: in Washington, of course, covering national security for US at Bloomberg. Dan,

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Speaker 3: last time we spoke, we didn't have any details. Now

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Speaker 3: that we do, can either of these leaders claim a win?

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Speaker 8: It's a good question, Joe, you know, I think time

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Speaker 8: will tell. We'll have to get some more details about

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Speaker 8: what transpired behind the scenes. What we do know at

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Speaker 8: this point is that there is this agreement we can

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Speaker 8: call it on energy and electrical infrastructure for a certain

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Speaker 8: period of time, an agreement to begin discussions on a

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Speaker 8: maritime ceasefire and continuing peace negotiations in the Middle East.

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Speaker 3: So this keeps neighborhoods from being bombed though, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 8: I mean I think, look, I think it's probably a

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Speaker 8: win in the general sense, in the human sense, as

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Speaker 8: you point out that there will be less bombing, less

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Speaker 8: killing for the foreseeable future, assuming that this holds. It

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Speaker 8: doesn't address, of course, troops on the ground, It doesn't

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Speaker 8: address territorial disputes, It doesn't address a number of the

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Speaker 8: issues that the Ukrainians wanted to discuss, include security guarantees

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Speaker 8: and things of that nature. It leaves putin the option

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Speaker 8: to continue to press on a cessation of arms and

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Speaker 8: materiel to Ukraine, supplies of that material by the US

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Speaker 8: and other allies. So look, it's promising, one might say,

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Speaker 8: in its bold strokes, but still a lot of details

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Speaker 8: and implementation that has to come with this. So yeah,

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Speaker 8: you know, hard.

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Speaker 2: To say, well, and is it safe to assume because

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Speaker 2: Ukraine already had with the US agreed to a full

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Speaker 2: ceasefire for thirty days, that they will be amenable to

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Speaker 2: at least a ceasefire in these specific areas with which

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Speaker 2: we're speaking about.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, that's a great question, Kayley, and I think that's

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Speaker 8: something that we're going to be doing some reporting on

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Speaker 8: to understand. You know, there is a potential scenario in

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Speaker 8: which the call started, Trump or Putin presented their terms

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Speaker 8: they couldn't agree to, let's say, I mean, I don't know,

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Speaker 8: sort of speculating a little bit, but one could imagine that,

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Speaker 8: you know, they may not have been able to come

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Speaker 8: to terms on that thirty day ceasefire. They may have

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Speaker 8: settled on something a little bit different. But again, energy

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Speaker 8: and infrastructure is not a small thing. This has been

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Speaker 8: a part of the Ukrainian grid network territory that has

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Speaker 8: been targeted by Russia. The Ukrainians have targeted some Russian

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Speaker 8: assets energy and infrastructure assets as well, and really this

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Speaker 8: has been a war that in many respects has involved

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Speaker 8: energy in a lot of different respects. The Russians make

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Speaker 8: a lot of their money, if not you know, a

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Speaker 8: majority of their money from selling energy into the West

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Speaker 8: and now into India and China. The Ukrainians broker deals

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Speaker 8: over the years to allow Russian energy to transit their

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Speaker 8: territory in the hopes that it would prevent a war.

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Speaker 8: So we're sort of back to energy and infrastructure at

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Speaker 8: this moment, and so I think that that is kind

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Speaker 8: of an interesting development, not one that we were expecting.

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Speaker 8: Although Okayley, as you say, it does stop short of

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Speaker 8: this thirty day complete cessation of hostilities that we.

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Speaker 5: Were beyond that.

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Speaker 3: Then this readout from the White House says the blood

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Speaker 3: and treasure that both Ukraine and Russia have been spending

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Speaker 3: in this war would be better spent on the needs

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Speaker 3: of their people, Projecting to this idea of a full

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Speaker 3: cease fire, that wouldn't have been the case if Russia

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Speaker 3: had not invaded Ukraine and continue its occupation. That doesn't

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Speaker 3: seem to be reflected in any of the language coming

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Speaker 3: from the White House, league.

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Speaker 8: Right, Yeah, I mean it's not a small point, Joe.

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Speaker 8: You know, if this deal had been negotiated under the

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Speaker 8: previous administration, under the Biden administration, we may see a

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Speaker 8: different framing of this whole discussion. That's been Trump's point

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Speaker 8: that he's made a time and again all along. Then

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Speaker 8: you have to talk, You have to have these negotiations

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Speaker 8: in order to bring this flock to an end. So

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Speaker 8: I wouldn't expect Trump to come out and say, you know,

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Speaker 8: the illegal Russian occupation of Ukraine needs to end today,

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Speaker 8: so on and so forth. He has not, in any

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Speaker 8: of his previous statements previewed anything like that. So it's

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Speaker 8: not unexpected for Trump. It's certainly unexpected. You know, if

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Speaker 8: we go back to three years ago again, to where

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Speaker 8: this all started, when Ukrainian President Volodimir Zelinsky addressed a

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Speaker 8: joint session of Congress, and you had members of Congress

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Speaker 8: pouring out of that auditorium talking about how inspired they

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Speaker 8: were by the Ukrainian resistance to the Russian occupation, talking

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Speaker 8: about how Zelensky as a hero, talking about the illegal

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Speaker 8: occupation of Ukraine and all of that. You know, we're

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Speaker 8: in a different place now. It's in some ways, three

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Speaker 8: years is a very long time. It's a very long

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Speaker 8: time in war, no matter how you cut it. But

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Speaker 8: it's a very short period of time when you think

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Speaker 8: about where we were three years ago and how much

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Speaker 8: the rhetoric has changed. And you know, I think that politically,

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Speaker 8: Trump has sees feels that he has a mandate to

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Speaker 8: bring this war to an end on whatever terms he

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Speaker 8: sees fit. And you know that's certainly been Vice President J.

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Speaker 8: D Vance's perspective as well. And so here we are

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Speaker 8: and we'll see how these negotiations play out in the

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Speaker 8: Middle East. We'll try to learn some more details about

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Speaker 8: how this call went down and what was discussed and

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Speaker 8: how things may have changed. And I'm sure that there

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Speaker 8: will be a lot more reporting to come about how

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Speaker 8: this will be implemented and maybe some of the nuances

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Speaker 8: that we don't know at this point how those will

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Speaker 8: come into play. But I think for now, you know,

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Speaker 8: if you're if you were looking at this call and

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Speaker 8: waiting for the outcome very nervously, you know you probably

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Speaker 8: are feeling maybe a little bit better than you might

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Speaker 8: have initially. But I'm sure that there will be people

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Speaker 8: that aren't happy with this, with this results for a

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Speaker 8: number of reasons, and some of them good reasons too.

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Speaker 8: So you know, obviously more to come.

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Speaker 2: Well, and it's interesting that we get this news after today,

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Speaker 2: seeing what we saw in Europe and Germany specifically, where

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Speaker 2: the parliament has essentially okayed. Now we'll full shift away

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Speaker 2: from the policy of austerity and allowing a debt to

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Speaker 2: be essentially not a factor when we consider defense spending.

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Speaker 2: And it makes me wonder about the role Europe is

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Speaker 2: going to play here, if they really have any part

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Speaker 2: to play in these conversations that will be happening over

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Speaker 2: thirty days and beyond, and how quickly Europe is actually

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Speaker 2: able to get itself to a place in which they

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Speaker 2: can provide a security backstop if we ultimately don't end

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Speaker 2: up with a US guarantee on that.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, this is history, but you know, since

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Speaker 8: the end of the Cold War, really since the end

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Speaker 8: of the Second World War, the US has been the

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Speaker 8: security guarantee for Europe. So this is a huge sea

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Speaker 8: change and for Germany to be leading the charge on

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Speaker 8: this is notable. I think it was the British Prime

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Speaker 8: Minister Keir Starmer that spoke with Trump ahead of the

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Speaker 8: call and really impressed upon Trump the need for some

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Speaker 8: type of security arrangement around this deal. We do expect

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Speaker 8: the Europeans and the British to be involved in this.

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Speaker 8: I think it's an open question of how involved they

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Speaker 8: will be. It's going to be a different role for

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Speaker 8: them than they've played, you know, in the past. But

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Speaker 8: it's certainly I think that that again, we talked about

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Speaker 8: this earlier, but the White House meeting between President Zelenski

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Speaker 8: and President Trump and and Vice President Vance was I think,

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Speaker 8: among other things, a major wake up call for Europe

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Speaker 8: and they have decided that that they're going to have

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Speaker 8: to play a bigger role in European defense. And again,

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Speaker 8: you know, just to go back to Trump's campaign presidential campaign,

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Speaker 8: this is something that he's talked about time and again.

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Speaker 8: So you know, again it's it's and we talked about

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Speaker 8: Israel and and Gaza earlier and how hard it is

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Speaker 8: to keep these agreements together. So I still think there's

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Speaker 8: a lot.

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Speaker 2: More to come on this, all right, certainly, so we

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Speaker 2: appreciate you joining us on this breaking news. Bloomberg National

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Speaker 2: security reporter Dan Flatley again the big headline here at

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Speaker 2: the US and RuSHA. In this phone call between Presidents

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Speaker 2: Trump and Putin agreed to a thirty day seasfire beginning

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Speaker 2: with energy and infrastructure specifically, though talks for a wider

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Speaker 2: ceasefire will begin immediately and take place in the Middle East.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple,

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Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen

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Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us

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Speaker 1: live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: We want to get some more reaction now here on

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Television and Radio from General Ben Hodges, the former

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Speaker 2: Commanding General of the United States Army Europe. General, Welcome

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Speaker 2: back to balance of power. When we consider all of

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Speaker 2: the ways in which this phone conversation could have gone,

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Speaker 2: is this ultimately a good outcome the beginnings of at

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Speaker 2: least a ceasefire in part.

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Speaker 6: Well, of course, I have to tell you I was

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Speaker 6: expecting the worst. I was expecting that we were going

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Speaker 6: to hear that the Resident had agreed to recognize Russian

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Speaker 6: occupation of Crimea, agree to Russian demands for elections in Ukraine,

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Speaker 6: and things like that. So the fact that we didn't

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Speaker 6: hear those is is better than if we had. But

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Speaker 6: we have to be very clear that I think Vladimir

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Speaker 6: Putin has actually zero interest in any true long term

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Speaker 6: settlement as long as he remains in power, and that

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Speaker 6: his ultimate objective still remains the destruction of Ukraine. So

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Speaker 6: I didn't hear or read anything about Russia backing away

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Speaker 6: from their ultimate objectives. So we should be very clear

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Speaker 6: about this.

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Speaker 3: So to that end, General, and it's great to have

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Speaker 3: you back here as this news breaks today. If you're

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Speaker 3: a member of the Ukrainian military, if you're a soldier

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Speaker 3: or an airman deployed, you're waking up tomorrow morning to

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Speaker 3: the very same world that you were in today. Correct,

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Speaker 3: there's no cease fire when it comes to military. The

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Speaker 3: battlefield will continue. Donald Trump talked about some of the

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Speaker 3: Ukrainian forces surrounded by Russians that he was going to

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Speaker 3: spare them. We didn't hear a reference to that in

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Speaker 3: the readout today either. So the fighting continues well.

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Speaker 6: And you know, I'm sitting here, of course this is

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Speaker 6: in the last few minutes, but I'm trying to digest

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Speaker 6: a little bit. What does it mean. You're right, there's

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Speaker 6: nothing that is better for any soldiers on the battlefield.

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Speaker 6: And when we talk about energy and infrastructure, that sounds

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Speaker 6: to me that Russia is acknowledging that Ukraine was hammering

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00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 6: their oil and gas infrastructure, and so of course they

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00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 6: want that to stop. Now. I'll be curious to see

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Speaker 6: does that mean that Russia will also stop attacking Ukraine's

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00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 6: power generation, for example, I will want to see that

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00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 6: if that's really going to happen. And you know, I

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00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 6: think that the fact that when the United States comes

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00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 6: out of a call with Putin and says, oh, it's

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00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 6: going to be a great relationship, Vladimir Putin is convicted

447
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 6: in the International Criminal Court, so he is responsible for

448
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 6: the depth of tens of thousands of innocent people. So

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00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 6: I don't understand how the president of the United States,

450
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 6: at least in normal times, would come out and say

451
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 6: We're going to have a great relationship with the Russians.

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Speaker 2: Well, and especially when we look at the readout we

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Speaker 2: got from the Russian side and what the Kremlin is saying.

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Speaker 2: They specifically make reference to the idea that US aid

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Speaker 2: flow to Ukraine should stop general. What would happen if

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00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 2: the US were agreed to cut things off.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think there's two or three parts of this.

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00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 6: Once again, all the demands, all the things that are

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00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 6: being that have to ceize or stop, are those things

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00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,199
Speaker 6: that affect Ukraine negatively. I still to this day have

461
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 6: not heard anything from the administration that says Russia must

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00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 6: stop doing X y zen so I think that's uh,

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00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 6: that's what I think about when I hear what you

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00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 6: just pointed out, Kayley. Now, of course, you know the

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00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 6: other part of this, the hubris of the US administration.

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Speaker 6: Ukraine is not bound to any of this, Europe is

467
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 6: not bound to any of this. And so if the

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00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 6: United States makes the terrible decision to abandon a democratic

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00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 6: country fighting for its survival against Russia, then Ukrainians are

470
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 6: not going to stop, and Europe is going to have

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00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 6: to fill in the gap. And you know, I'm here

472
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,479
Speaker 6: at a conference in Berlin right now. That's exactly what

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00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 6: people are talking about, is how they're going to increase

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00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 6: deliveries because this discussion between President Trump and President Putin

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00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 6: has been done without meaningful European involvement or even Ukrainian involvement.

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Speaker 3: Well, with that said, you were commanding General US Army Europe.

477
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Speaker 3: What are military leaders in our in European capitals? Are

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00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 3: allies in Europe saying about this today? How worried should

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00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 3: they be whether you're talking to leaders in Poland or Estonia.

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00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 6: Well, first of all, of course, we still have NATO,

481
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 6: the most successful allized in history of the world. Yes,

482
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 6: of course there's problems. There's concerns about American commitment, but

483
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 6: the fact is so much progress has been made since

484
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 6: really two thousand and fourteen to improve capabilities and structures

485
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 6: and readiness of different nations. So we're in a better

486
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,479
Speaker 6: place than we were now, the alliance is than it

487
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 6: was ten years ago. And particularly like I'm sure many

488
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 6: of your listeners know, Joe, that Germany. Today the German

489
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 6: parliament passed law that changes their entire budgeting system so

490
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 6: that now they will be able to spend hundreds of

491
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 6: billions of euro on defense. So this is not the

492
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 6: same old Europe from just a few years ago, but

493
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 6: they will in fact be able to provide much of

494
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 6: what you Canukraine needs over time. And I think we

495
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 6: the United States, we're going to regret having lost real

496
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 6: influence in Europe because of that.

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Speaker 5: General.

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00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 2: We just have a minute left here, so I apologize

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00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: that we have to keep it short. But what would

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00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 2: you expect to hear from Ukrainian President vladimir's Lensky in

501
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 2: reaction to this?

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Speaker 6: I think that President Jelenski will say nobody wants peace

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00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 6: more than the Ukraine. This war started when Russia invaded Ukraine.

504
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 6: Russia could end it tonight. They could if people really

505
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 6: want peace, they could end it tonight. That's what the

506
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 6: Ukrainians want. But the Ukrainians also know that you cannot

507
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 6: accept the Russian version of peace because that means total

508
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 6: subjugation of Ukrainian people and the destruction of the Ukrainian state.

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Speaker 3: General Ben Hodges, it's great to have you back with us, sir,

510
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 3: and appreciate your jumping on the line with us with

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Speaker 3: breaking news the call between President Trump and President Putin

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Speaker 3: leading to a thirty day in structure and energy cease fire. Kaylee,

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Speaker 3: we might still hear from the President later on today.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make

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00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 3: sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,

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00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

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00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 3: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at Noontimeeastern at

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg dot com.