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Speaker 1: Welcome to The Giants Huddle, a New York Giants podcast.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of the Giants Huddle podcast. Will

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Speaker 1: be joined by Paul Dutino in just a second or

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Speaker 1: two guests today, Land zero Line and Dan Shanka as

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Speaker 1: you do a preview of the two thousand and twenty

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Speaker 1: NFL Combine. You can find the Giant Subtle Podcast on

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Speaker 1: the Giants mobile app, Giants dot Com, and all your

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Speaker 1: favorite podcast platforms. Just search for gihnt Subtle Podcast adds

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Speaker 1: to your feed and if you're an Apple podcast, please

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Speaker 1: leave a positive review if you like what you hear.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to Dan Shanka from ourrow lads and just

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Speaker 1: a bit. But first we're joined by our guest, Land

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Speaker 1: zero Line. You know him as the guy that does

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Speaker 1: all the reports you find on NFL dot com is

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Speaker 1: Draft Tracker. You can hear him on ESPN Houston every morning,

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Speaker 1: and you can see him on NFL Network and hear

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Speaker 1: him on the Move the Sticks podcast lands that I

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Speaker 1: miss Anything now now occasionally a comment coward here in

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Speaker 1: Man and I'll be on today with on the NFL

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Speaker 1: Now at about about an hour and a half. I'll

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Speaker 1: be doing a hit there too, the show up on

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Speaker 1: the NFL networks. So just busy, yeah always, and of

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Speaker 1: course heading into the combine, real busy time as you

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Speaker 1: get all those reports ready for NFL dot Com. We

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining us on the Giant Subtle Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Well let's let's start with this, and I'm gonna look

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Speaker 1: at this from a Giant's perspective, but I want you

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Speaker 1: to focus on these prospects because you've been watching them

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Speaker 1: a lot more than I have. When the Giants get

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Speaker 1: there before, there's a really good chance there's gonna be

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Speaker 1: four offensive tackles that different people have top ten grades

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Speaker 1: on from what you're hearing from NFL scouts, from what

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Speaker 1: you've seen, can you differentiate for me how Jeddrick Rolls

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Speaker 1: is different than Andrew Thomas. How are they different than

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Speaker 1: Tristan Worths? How are they different than McKay Beckton? Break

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Speaker 1: down that group at the top of the offensive tackle

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Speaker 1: list for me? All right, So I think that at

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Speaker 1: the very top for me, it's uh, Jeddrick Wills. Um,

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Speaker 1: Jeddrick is his his played you know, right tackle, He's

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Speaker 1: been a guard, he has some guard or tackle flexibility. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I think he's more than athletic enough to play tackle.

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Speaker 1: He's very athletic. He is a power for run blocker

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Speaker 1: as well, plays with good hands, plays with a lot

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Speaker 1: of explosiveness and drive at the point of attack, and

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Speaker 1: like I said, has the foot quickness and athleticism to

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Speaker 1: uh to handle not only speed rushes but inside counters

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Speaker 1: as well. That's that's kind of feat he has. UM

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Speaker 1: As far as McKay beckton, he is massive. I mean

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Speaker 1: he's going to weigh in close to about three fifty pounds.

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Speaker 1: He carries his weight exceptionally well. Um for that amount

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Speaker 1: of weight. He's in good shape right now from what

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Speaker 1: I've been told by people who are working with him.

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Speaker 1: And um, he is a left tackle and that obviously

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Speaker 1: some people will view that as having more value. But

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Speaker 1: McKay beckton is extremely powerful, can just batter people with

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Speaker 1: his with his powerful hands, he can move as a

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Speaker 1: move blocker. Um, he's got to get a little bit

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Speaker 1: better as an inline blocker, and he's got to become

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Speaker 1: a little bit more patient and pass protection as well.

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Speaker 1: So he's got a little I think he's behind Will's

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Speaker 1: a standpoint of you know where he is now. But

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Speaker 1: he's got a lot of potential, and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of teams really excited about him, and and especially for

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Speaker 1: the Giants. UM as far as worse, I think worse

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Speaker 1: and Andrew Thomas for me would be a little further

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Speaker 1: down the line. Neither one or great blockers Um worse.

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Speaker 1: Everyone just expects him to be like Brandon Schurf. And

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Speaker 1: while he's gonna, you know, he can, he can squat

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Speaker 1: a house, and he's gonna have a big bench press,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily translate into the type of drive blocking

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Speaker 1: you want. He there's not as much bend and leverage

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Speaker 1: at the point of attack, so he's not a real

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Speaker 1: grinder as a drive blocker. He has a tendency to

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Speaker 1: overset and past protection, which means he puts too much

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Speaker 1: weight on his outside foot and guys can beat him inside.

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Speaker 1: That's gotta get fixed. But if he gets fixed, he's

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Speaker 1: got good feet, he's got great core strength, He's a

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Speaker 1: former wrestler who's got great leverage, and I think he's

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Speaker 1: got a chance to be a good a solid right tackle.

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Speaker 1: But many teams also see him as a guard, and

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Speaker 1: I don't look at that as a negative. I look

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Speaker 1: at that as you know, roster flexibility. And I finally

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Speaker 1: Andrew Thomas. Andrew Thomas to me is maybe even a

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Speaker 1: little safer, even though I've got the grades the same.

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Speaker 1: I think he's a little safer than worse. He's he's

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Speaker 1: got some dog mentality. Um, he has played left tackle

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Speaker 1: and right tackle. He's got He does a good job

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Speaker 1: of of resetting his feet to help him maintain his

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Speaker 1: past protection. He doesn't always look pretty, but he gets

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Speaker 1: a job done. He gets guys blocked. Uh. He's another

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Speaker 1: one I think that can be a little inconsistent as

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Speaker 1: a run blocker. He's more of a baller than a technician.

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Speaker 1: But so that's you know, to me, it's Becton and

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Speaker 1: Wills are going to be kind of on the on

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Speaker 1: the top tier, and then on that second tier they're

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Speaker 1: gonna be the other two. Andrew Thomas and Tristal works.

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Speaker 1: All right, Let's let's go to Isaiah Simmons. I've probably

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Speaker 1: watched around six games from him lands and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's funny. I know a lot of people are and

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Speaker 1: most teams are scouting him as a linebacker, but the

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Speaker 1: way he plays, I see strong safety and I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you why. He plays a lot in the slot. I

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Speaker 1: think when the actions in front of him, I think

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Speaker 1: he does a real good job. He can cover. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't see him, you know, stacking and shedding inside

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Speaker 1: the tackle box on power runs. But he can run

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Speaker 1: guys down the open field, open field tackling. He can run,

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Speaker 1: he can cover. How do you view Simmons? And to me,

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Speaker 1: he's one of the more unique players I've watched, And

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Speaker 1: I think whatever team does draft him, they have to

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Speaker 1: have in mind how they want to use him when

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Speaker 1: they do. Yeah, I think putting a label on him

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Speaker 1: is kind of a mistake. I mean, you know, you

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Speaker 1: got to call him a safety linebacker. But the fact

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Speaker 1: is what makes him so interesting to me is because

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Speaker 1: of all the things you said, I mean, I thought

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Speaker 1: his instincts, frankly, we're not great between the tackles. He

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Speaker 1: had a tendency to misread some runs and fit up

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Speaker 1: in the wrong gaps and things like that. And and

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Speaker 1: if you really focus on that, you start to get

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Speaker 1: down on him a little bit. And then when you

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Speaker 1: start really expanding, uh, you know, you're expanding what you're

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Speaker 1: looking at and really expanding your your vantage point of

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Speaker 1: Isaiah Simmons. You see a guy who runs sideline to sideline.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna run in a four four range, so tremendously fast.

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Speaker 1: He's got great arm lenked, he can rush the passer

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Speaker 1: off the edge. He can cover as a I mean,

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Speaker 1: he can play as a stack linebacker. He just needs

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Speaker 1: to get a little better with some of the instincts

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Speaker 1: and recognition. But the same thing was said about Tremaine

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Speaker 1: Edmunds coming out who the Buffalo Bills. Um, I think

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Speaker 1: gotta steal later in the first round. Um, he can

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Speaker 1: cover the slot. He he can drop back and do

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Speaker 1: some exotic stuff as a as a single high safety,

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Speaker 1: as we saw in the playoffs with Clemson. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've got a guy who does a lot of different

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Speaker 1: things including in What really started to cement my draft

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Speaker 1: grade for him is watching him spy the Louisville quarterback

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Speaker 1: last year. And I guarantee you it's because I saw

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Speaker 1: the Louisville quarterback and it was Louisville specifically, and I

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Speaker 1: started thinking about Lamar Jackson and I realized, here's a

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Speaker 1: guy that, I mean, no one's gonna be Lamar Jackson

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Speaker 1: from an athlete standpoint at linebacker, but this is a

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Speaker 1: player who is long, fast, and unusually explosive and in

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Speaker 1: a spy situation or a zone reach situation, I recognize

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Speaker 1: Isaiah Simmons is the perfect new breed of hybrid player

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Speaker 1: to match up with these matchup players. These all this,

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Speaker 1: you know, offense, offense has been able to put the

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Speaker 1: defense on their heels for the last several years. And

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Speaker 1: it's because now they've got dual threat quarterbacks, and they've

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Speaker 1: got running backs out of the backfield who catch and

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Speaker 1: can end up lining up in the slide. You have

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Speaker 1: matchup tight ends who are too fast for linebackers and

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Speaker 1: too big for safeties, And well, how about getting a

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Speaker 1: guy who matches up with the matchup guys. And now,

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Speaker 1: if you get a creative defensive coordinator, why don't you,

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Speaker 1: you know, take a player who's got the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: attack from a variety of different angles and cause problems

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Speaker 1: because you don't know, if you're an offense, where he's

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Speaker 1: going to be deployed from. So that's why I think

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Speaker 1: Isaiah Simmons gives them gets a projection grade. I don't

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Speaker 1: think his tape is as necessarily as high as I

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Speaker 1: have him, but I'm projecting him to continue to get

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Speaker 1: better to find tune what he does in his role

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Speaker 1: and then um for teams to really utilize him in

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Speaker 1: a way that takes advantage of all his talent. I

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Speaker 1: don't think he's another Jibral Peppers. I think he's more

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Speaker 1: Darius Leonard, to be honest with you, but Darius Leonard

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Speaker 1: who can cover as a you know, a slot, a

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Speaker 1: big nickel slot, or even you know, as a downsafe.

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Speaker 1: Do you like Cam Chancellor and in a in a

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Speaker 1: robber role in Seattle. I'm gonna sound like an old

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Speaker 1: guy bringing this guy up. He reminds me a little

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Speaker 1: bit of Darren Woodson, who could do a lot of

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Speaker 1: that different stuff to cover in the slot. And he's

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Speaker 1: a little bit different physically, little bit tall, a little leaner.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think in the modern NFL a guy

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Speaker 1: like that it is really invaluable. Jeffreyokuda is we haven't

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Speaker 1: seen a top four I don't think cornerbacks and Sean

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Speaker 1: Springs or top three cornerback, I forget the number. Is

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Speaker 1: he and his coverage skills worth a top four, top

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Speaker 1: five selection in this year's draft? Well, I think it's close.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's to me once again, you're you're dealing

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Speaker 1: a little bit with projection because he's got tremendous links uh, twitchiness,

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Speaker 1: athletic ability, aggressiveness, Like there's there's a lot of things

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Speaker 1: to really love. I think there are some guys who

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Speaker 1: are better right now is pure cover guys. But he's

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Speaker 1: he's moving up the charts pretty quickly. Like you don't.

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Speaker 1: You don't have a lot of weaknesses that you can

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Speaker 1: point out with with the Kuda, And I think it's

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Speaker 1: just a matter of him continuing to get better at

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Speaker 1: trusting his eyes and playing um, you know, playing instinctive football.

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Speaker 1: If that translates, It doesn't always translates, It doesn't always happen,

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Speaker 1: but if it does happen, I think you're talking about

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Speaker 1: a guy who has a chance to be a really

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Speaker 1: really talented lockdown corner in one of the top three

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Speaker 1: corners in the NFL. You know, Lance is funny when

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Speaker 1: I watched these guys and O Kuda lines up and

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Speaker 1: press a lot more than other college corners do. But

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Speaker 1: even he lines up in press, he doesn't get his

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Speaker 1: hands on heybody, what's watching and try to be DUTs.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand if you get a line up in press,

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Speaker 1: why don't these guys just general, this is not just

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Speaker 1: so cool to everyone in college. No one seems to

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Speaker 1: redirect people with their hands at the line of scrimmage

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Speaker 1: as much as they should. Getting ready for the NFL.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can find guys m Cam Danceler from

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Speaker 1: Mississippi State does it. Troyan Diggs. I'd like to see

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Speaker 1: it more from Alabama because that's a guy that really

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Speaker 1: gave gave people a lot of trouble. You know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of times I think it's a it's a coaching

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Speaker 1: decision and it's a technique decision where they say, let's

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Speaker 1: not give a guy a chance to beat you. Um,

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Speaker 1: let's let's just go ahead and kind of crowd the

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Speaker 1: route and slow the release. I'm with you, though, I'd

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Speaker 1: like to see these big physical guys impose their will

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Speaker 1: a little more frequently. Stanford Samuels will do it some

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Speaker 1: with with with Florida State. Give me the most physical

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Speaker 1: aggressive press Guy's kid named a Meek Robertson at a Louisiana,

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Speaker 1: Texas five eight and a half and he is just

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Speaker 1: as physical as can be. And uh, yeah, I'm with you.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to see that more, especially in college, because

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Speaker 1: it is harder. In the NFL, the releases get quicker,

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Speaker 1: they're they're craftier, they're more clever, and so I'd love

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Speaker 1: for you to show it, at least on tape a

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Speaker 1: little bit, because that is such a weapon. If you've

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Speaker 1: got a guy who's got the foot agility and the

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Speaker 1: timing and the technique and the body control and balanced

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Speaker 1: to do it, it's a big advantage in the NFL.

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Speaker 1: A couple more guys. Are you a Jerry Judy or

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Speaker 1: Ceedee lambman, and do you think either or both are

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Speaker 1: worth the top five selection? I think neither are worth

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Speaker 1: the top five selection. Personally, it's a loaded wide receiver class,

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Speaker 1: and you just don't you know, there's really no reason

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Speaker 1: to go out there and and get a wide receiver

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Speaker 1: that early. I would love it if Jerry Judy were

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Speaker 1: six to six two and a half and two pounds,

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Speaker 1: but he's not. I mean, he's really more of a

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Speaker 1: Calvin Ridley bill. Ceedee Lamb is gonna run into fourth

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Speaker 1: five range. So I like both of those players. I

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Speaker 1: think they're talented wide receivers in a little different way.

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Speaker 1: But you know, if I'm gonna take a wide receiver

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Speaker 1: anywhere near the top five. I want you to be Megatron,

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Speaker 1: you know. I want you to be special physically, not

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Speaker 1: just fast. I want you to have special sizes. You

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Speaker 1: need to check all the physical boxes because wide receivers,

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Speaker 1: you know, for a lot of people just feel like

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Speaker 1: you've got to be a special, special wide receiver to

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Speaker 1: get that kind of love. And I've kind of fallen

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Speaker 1: at camp as well. I can like them, I can

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Speaker 1: give good grades to them, but if I'm drafting, I'm

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Speaker 1: not taking one of those two guys um in the

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Speaker 1: top five. That's too rich for me. H. I'm with you,

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Speaker 1: and I think this is one of those drafts where

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get the end of the draft on Friday night,

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Speaker 1: end of the day two, and all these team's gonna

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Speaker 1: go home on Friday night, get against Saturday morning, and

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Speaker 1: they're gonna look at these boards and they're gonna see

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Speaker 1: probably three or four wide receivers with Day two, maybe

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Speaker 1: even late second round grade still left. This is such

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Speaker 1: a deep class. I think that's gonna be a real

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Speaker 1: sweet spot here, and the round three top around four,

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Speaker 1: just because there are too many wide receivers to fill

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Speaker 1: all these slots in the first three rounds, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: and that's why you know, it's gonna be interesting to

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Speaker 1: see how the runs go. Because there's a run tackle

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Speaker 1: that could happen at some point. There is a run

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Speaker 1: on wide receivers that could happen at some point, and

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Speaker 1: then of course there's a on on quarterback. And the

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Speaker 1: wide receivers is just so deep. If the wide receivers,

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Speaker 1: I think they could get pushed back because it's deep. Now,

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Speaker 1: if the opposite happens, and if somebody says, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: if if Miami says something like, okay, you know what

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Speaker 1: instead of instead of us going a quarterback to us

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Speaker 1: off the board, let's go Jerry Judy, Let's let's get

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Speaker 1: a let's go ceedee Land, let's get a playmaker. And here,

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Speaker 1: if somebody did something like that and all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden it pushed another team to draft wide receiver a

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Speaker 1: little early, then all of a sudden, there could be

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Speaker 1: some panic set in and you may see a run

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Speaker 1: that you know, shoots a guy like Michael Pittman, who

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Speaker 1: wouldn't typically be a first rounder into the back half

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Speaker 1: of the first So you know, you could compare him

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Speaker 1: a little bit to kill Harvey. So um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think there's going to be a wide receiver run,

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Speaker 1: but it's really really deep. So how how teams have

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Speaker 1: these guys stacked and the type of wide receiver they're

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Speaker 1: looking for that's very critical because their speed. There's the

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Speaker 1: slot guys, there is the true wide receiver ones, and

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Speaker 1: then there's just some solid wide receiver two types that

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Speaker 1: are gonna be out there for you to get your

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Speaker 1: hands on. Uh, potentially late second into early third, but

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Speaker 1: definitely in the top seventy five. Jant Benz will scream

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Speaker 1: me if I don't ask you, is there any shot

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Speaker 1: Chase Young gets the four? Any series of machin nations

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Speaker 1: that could happen here, Herbert, you name it. Any chance

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Speaker 1: he gets to the giants at four? I can't see that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can't see any scenario with a guy

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Speaker 1: who had sixteen and a half sacks, twenty one and

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Speaker 1: a half tackles for a loss, looks the way he

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Speaker 1: does and still has a lot of room to get better.

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't see how that guy, that kind

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Speaker 1: of guy gets that deep. I a great final question, Lens,

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Speaker 1: and I'll dip into the second round. Here, Where do

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Speaker 1: you see value in this draft in depth, when you

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Speaker 1: get back into the first round, top of the second round,

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Speaker 1: where the Giants can find somebody a really good value

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Speaker 1: with that pick at the top of round number two, Well,

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Speaker 1: an offensive tackle still be at cornerback. Cornerback and then

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Speaker 1: you know, you guys have a tight end, so you

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Speaker 1: don't really need that as long as Ingram plays the

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Speaker 1: whole year this year and you know it gives you

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Speaker 1: and you've got running back, and those are two of

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Speaker 1: the areas that I think off of the best value,

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Speaker 1: so you don't really have to worry about that. I

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Speaker 1: think you could also potentially see a little bit of

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Speaker 1: value off the edge. The potential edge rusher could be

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Speaker 1: of some value. And you know, it's not a it's

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Speaker 1: not the best linebacker draft I've ever seen, so I

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Speaker 1: think you have to be a little bit careful there.

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Speaker 1: But but defensive back, I do think that sometime that

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're looking for a safety or corner

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Speaker 1: that's where you have a shot to start, and that

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Speaker 1: usually goes down like that second round is where you

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Speaker 1: start seeing some value at corners, and you definitely start

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Speaker 1: seeing some value at safety. So I think, uh, I

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Speaker 1: think defensive back is probably from a giant perspective what

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Speaker 1: you'd be looking at lands. I know you squeeze us

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Speaker 1: in today. We really appreciate a good luck with the

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Speaker 1: profiles and we look forward to see out there in

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Speaker 1: the combine doing your great work for the network. Thanks man,

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Speaker 1: and now we'll turn our attention to Dan Shanka. He's

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Speaker 1: the head of hour led Scouting Services, and of course

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Speaker 1: there's a great job with the Draft Prospects former NFL

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Speaker 1: scout as well, Dan, Paul Datino, Joshua, thanks for being

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Speaker 1: with us. Let's start with this because I think this

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Speaker 1: is interesting. The format for the combine has changed this year. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be very different than we've seen before in

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Speaker 1: terms of the timing, how everything's gonna take place. So

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Speaker 1: from the guys you talked to around the league, I

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Speaker 1: know you have great sources. How do you think this

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Speaker 1: is going to impact at all how NFL teams deal

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Speaker 1: with the combine this year? Well, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: I think this that they're they're after change gears a

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Speaker 1: little bit in regards to you know there the way

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Speaker 1: things are always set up in the past, the guys

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Speaker 1: come in and they do their uh, they they get

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Speaker 1: their gear. You know, and then they go to hospital

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Speaker 1: for X rays and do some things like that and

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Speaker 1: then uh they get a lot of the physical stuff

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Speaker 1: out of the way, and then um, you know, and

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Speaker 1: then the next morning they would go and and uh

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Speaker 1: they get drug tested. Every player there gets tested and

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Speaker 1: then you know, you go across the street, get your height, weight,

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Speaker 1: and then you start your workout. Well, now you know

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Speaker 1: the workouts of things. They are gonna be at night

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Speaker 1: so people can see them running in prime time and

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Speaker 1: things like that. Your interviews a lot of times always

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Speaker 1: at night also, so I think, uh, you know that's

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Speaker 1: gonna change, because these guys are really under u intense

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Speaker 1: pressure for two and a half to three days which

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Speaker 1: they have no time to do anything but take tests,

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Speaker 1: to answer questions. Get hey, if they're not injured, going

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Speaker 1: in guys to the h you know, to all the

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Speaker 1: orthod guys and all that they are on the way

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Speaker 1: out because I'll tell you they twist and turn them

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Speaker 1: beyond belief. So I think, you know, it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: interesting to see, you know, how things change. But you

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Speaker 1: know what the NFL is all about money and then

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Speaker 1: they get prime time TV, big bucks. Uh, that's the

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Speaker 1: way it's probably gonna stay. Yeah, that's the thing, Dan.

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Speaker 1: It has become a spectacle. And I guess i'd like

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Speaker 1: to ask you from a challenge evaluators perspective, is it

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Speaker 1: easier or harder to do your evaluations now that this

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Speaker 1: has become such an intensely pressurized environment where these guys

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Speaker 1: are being pulled in so many different directions. Whereas when

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Speaker 1: the Combined started so many years ago, it was so

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Speaker 1: much more simple and you guys were the primary focus

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Speaker 1: in dealing with you had to deal with Right now,

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Speaker 1: I think I'm I liked it when you know, the

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Speaker 1: only people that were in the dome were the coaches,

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Speaker 1: the scouts, and the players, you know, the medical personnel,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, it was very low key. The

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Speaker 1: guys knew they had to perform. But now you know

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Speaker 1: they're doing it under the uh uh you know, watchful

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Speaker 1: eyes of the TV camera and things like that, and

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Speaker 1: I think it puts extra pressure on those guys where

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Speaker 1: in fact they need to relax and just go out

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Speaker 1: and run. You know. I mean, Hey, when Offensive Lineman,

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Speaker 1: when we first uh started at the Combined stuff back

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Speaker 1: like night five and Aron, Hey, Offensive Lineman and running

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Speaker 1: with Army boots on. They didn't care. You know, if

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Speaker 1: I ran a five five, you know who cares? They're

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Speaker 1: gonna play with me. Now you see those guys out

395
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Speaker 1: there in their orange race shoes and all that stuff

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Speaker 1: and really offensive lineman eight they run a five three,

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Speaker 1: uh five two five something like that. That's fine. If

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Speaker 1: you run a four seven or seven like Armstead did

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Speaker 1: a few years ago, hey, that's outstanding. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I I just think that the perspective of things has

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Speaker 1: changed a little bit. And uh, you know, we always

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Speaker 1: if I can't tell you a quick story. In fact,

403
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Speaker 1: he's a former giant, but um so I think it

404
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Speaker 1: was a name I had tipped my top, the really

405
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Speaker 1: good receiver that uh that was from Michigan. Um that

406
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Speaker 1: played for the job, uh money, okay, you know a

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Speaker 1: Monty termer at night he came by everybody's booth after

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Speaker 1: the physicals and tried to get interviewed, and nobody was

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Speaker 1: talking to him. I mean, no funny the giants we

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Speaker 1: talked nobody, Okay. The next day was four or three something.

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Speaker 1: You couldn't get him in an interview, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean? And it was I mean really and in fact,

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Speaker 1: I saw a money down at the East West All

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Speaker 1: Star Game and he said, you're exactly right. He he

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Speaker 1: duck Is said, hey, do you want to talk to me?

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Speaker 1: Do you want to talk me? Check out some time?

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Speaker 1: You know, and this and that no way talking. The

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Speaker 1: next day he couldn't get him. But anyway, so that

419
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Speaker 1: was the way things were set up. Yeah, But but anyway,

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Speaker 1: I just think that, um, it's putting a lot of

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Speaker 1: undo pressure on the guys that there are already under pressure,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, this this is their lifetime drain.

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Speaker 1: They want to be relaxed and go get it. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that back then, I mean it

425
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Speaker 1: was just everything was, you know, just very low key,

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Speaker 1: and he had a lot of fun with the coaches

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Speaker 1: and that now you know, everything everybody tries to put

428
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,120
Speaker 1: on a dog and pony show, and uh, I think

429
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 1: it hurts the kids. All right, then let's talk about

430
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 1: how NFL teams are gonna use what they learned to combine.

431
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: Because what I always tell people on our shows here

432
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: is that the most important stuff is the stuff that

433
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,360
Speaker 1: we don't see, the interviews with the players and the medicals,

434
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: and and that is is going to be what's gonna

435
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 1: move guys the most on boards coming out of the

436
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 1: combine and the stuff that the people see, the on

437
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 1: the field stuff. That's kind of just a big confirmation

438
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 1: checklist thing where you want what the guys do in

439
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 1: their numbers and their events to match what's already been

440
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 1: determined about them on tape. Correct. Absolutely, now everything you

441
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 1: said it's very correct. Uh. In fact, the combine kind

442
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 1: of started out, you know, medicals, you know, keep bringing

443
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 1: the guys all together, um in different hicks. Actually there's

444
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 1: two or three little combines they had where guys would

445
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 1: come in and get their physicals and you know, all

446
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 1: the medical checks and things like that. Well that I

447
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 1: kind of expanded to the you know forty and the

448
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 1: Vertical and then even uh later the three Cone, which

449
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: has only been around I oh, gosh, I'm gonna say

450
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: the late nineties. Uh so well, but that's exactly right,

451
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 1: you know how the interviews go. But you know, here's

452
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,360
Speaker 1: the other thing. You've got companies out there, like Matt

453
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 1: ken Arok, former general manager you know with Atlanta, He's

454
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: got a company that teaches these guys how to interview,

455
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And there's several of those around.

456
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: I mean that can is not the only one, but

457
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 1: there's teach them out every so they're even practicing that.

458
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,719
Speaker 1: And uh, but yes, you're exactly right. The interviews are

459
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: extremely important. The medicals probably number one. And then you know,

460
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: I always like to see the guys work out because

461
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 1: my suspicions confirmed. Make if that guy run. I want

462
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 1: to know what you know? And that was always fun.

463
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: But you're right, the first two things are very important.

464
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 1: All right. This may be a tough one for you

465
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 1: to answer, Dan, But for the fan at home, who's

466
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: going to watch this thing now in prime time? And

467
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: there were gonna be plenty of them who do it,

468
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 1: let's not kid ourselves. That's why it's gonna be on

469
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 1: because they're expecting some big time ratings out of this.

470
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: What can the fan? Why watch? What are they going

471
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 1: to see? What should they be looking for? Give them

472
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 1: a thumbnail viewers guide as to why they should watch

473
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: and what they should want to see if they're gonna

474
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 1: gain anything out of this television presentation. And then I'll

475
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 1: add one thing to what Paul's asking. What events are

476
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: important for what positions? You know? What? What what should

477
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 1: fans value when they watch these things. Well, you know,

478
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: I don't want to state the obvious or saying to

479
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: the choir here, but you know, I think definitely when

480
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: you're looking at defensive backs, wide receivers, you want to

481
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: see those guys run. I mean they you know, let's

482
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,719
Speaker 1: face it, they got to be able to run. I mean,

483
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: they got to run fast and uh, but you always

484
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: keep in mind, you hope they if they look fast

485
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: on film. You want them to look fast obviously at

486
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: the combine because um, you know, you can be fold

487
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 1: real easily that a guy might be you know, it

488
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 1: might be a spece or cover guy, but he might

489
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: not be covering you know, the fastest guy. He might

490
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: be able to get on top of the guys that

491
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: are you know, the safe or five five guys, But

492
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: can you get on top of the four three nine

493
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: guy or four four guy? So you want to see

494
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 1: But again you want to see I mean this isn't

495
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: for the prime time thing, but you know when you're

496
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: scouting that guy, you want to see their natural speed

497
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: and now what you're gonna see some artificial speed you

498
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: know at the combine because these guys have been trained

499
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: and since they all start games and even prior to

500
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: that you know, on their starts, they're getting their start there,

501
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: you know, to see how they can really run. But

502
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: if you want to see the speed, you want to

503
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: see if they're a natural runner. Two, when you're watching

504
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 1: on TV, they're athletic ability where they're not you know, somebody,

505
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: they're not laboring when they're running. They you want to

506
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: see that nice easy flow athletic ability. And uh and

507
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: then when they're showing like say defensive back drill, I

508
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: think they'll we always put this in our guide by

509
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: the way the pedals turned in run times and we

510
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: like to see that where a guy, if you've got

511
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: fluid hips, you know, you're see if they dropped their butt,

512
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: they're they're dropped. They're they're getting their footwork um back pedaling,

513
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: and then the coach signals them to turn and run

514
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: and run through the drill and fear readically now and

515
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'll have the times up there they

516
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: I don't think they do on the back tedals turn

517
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: and run, but that theoretically is supposed to match up

518
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 1: with their forty time or be within you know, uh,

519
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: you know, some correlation there. So there are four or

520
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: five guy, say for instance, they should when they do

521
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: that back pedal turn and run it should be four

522
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: or five and change or whatever. You know, but that

523
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: you know, but that's what you know you like. And

524
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 1: then you'd like to see the explosiveness on a vertical

525
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: jump you know, say a outside linebacker or what have you,

526
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: um running back. You want to see the explosiveness on

527
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: a vertical dirt down bikes because you're supposed to go

528
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: straight up. You know, there's no step, you go straight up.

529
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: And then on the uh and on the bench press

530
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: for you know, you like, Hey, and they cheat all

531
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: the time. I'll tell you what those guys were. I'm

532
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: telling you the guys that are great and that we

533
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: have put up with that trap, you know, and we

534
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: get their ass their asses on the betch. They're not

535
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: raise it up on their tone, you know, they're not

536
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: founcing the p off their chest. Hey, it's straight you know. Boom,

537
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: it's straight up, you touch off lightly, boom, explode up,

538
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, I mean the guys, the guys

539
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 1: who are in charge of those drills. And then there

540
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: are strength coaches different NFL teams, they're cheating like hell,

541
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: and uh, if what we do we stop a guy

542
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: right now say no, good okay, you know you're starting over.

543
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: We don't want any of that bouncing off the check.

544
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what I think about one guy,

545
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: and you wouldn't have it anymore, you know what I mean?

546
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 1: And uh, but it's that really and then it really

547
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: hacks me off. Then they if they don't touch touch

548
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 1: the line, if they don't do well, you know, touch

549
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: the damn line. That that's part of your coaching, you

550
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: know what I mean, that's party coaching. You take coachy.

551
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: You know, if you can't touch the line, what makes

552
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: me think you're gonna run the right route? Come back

553
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: to the ball, you know what I mean? And things

554
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: like that. So I mean, uh, but you know, I

555
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: like a three call and you'd like to see the

556
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: guy's touch explode through around the corners and things like

557
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: that and plant and cut and then um on the

558
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: like the W drill we call it. Um You know

559
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: that when the defensive backs are doing that, you like

560
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: to see him stick your foot in the ground, drive

561
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: you know, things like that. So um but you know

562
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: you'll you see the athletic ability I think is really

563
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: because I mean even commentators now my songs the commentators

564
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: I work watching the same you know, stuff that I'm

565
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: looking at, like, oh, this guy really did a great

566
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: job on his uh he dropped on his drop and

567
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: he looked awful, you know what I mean. It's just

568
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: like what, you know, what the hell you guys talking about?

569
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: You know what, Hey, this guy he had a really

570
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: nice block and I'm looking, hey, and I missed some

571
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 1: film there. You know, the guy didn't he went down

572
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: to his knee. Didn't suck anybody, you know. So But anyway,

573
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: so but yeah, when you're watching that stuff at night

574
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,479
Speaker 1: prime time, Yeah, it's um, you know, watching those uh

575
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: seeing their athletic really in their explosiveness and when they

576
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: come out of the uh you know, come out of

577
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: the shoot there and that forty and how they run

578
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: through the line and and just you know, uh, how

579
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: their explosiveness and uh in the drills I think is

580
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 1: really good. And the other long there's correlations like say,

581
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: for instance, of a guy long jumps chen foot, Okay,

582
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: well he should be further colin at least thirty five inches. Okay.

583
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: I mean that's like if you go eleven log jump,

584
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: you have to be up in the forties. Okay, So

585
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: if they show those things and entirety, you know, you'll

586
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: see that correlation between and that explosiveness before we get

587
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: to the actual draft class and the players. I have

588
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,479
Speaker 1: one more question about the actual events, because I think

589
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: the NFL in a lot of ways has turned into

590
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: an agility sport. Right, You've got to go side to side,

591
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: change directions. That's how you create separation. That's how defensive

592
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: ends can sometimes get around offensive tackles. So just talk

593
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: about when you're watching the three cone, you're watching the

594
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: short shuttle, the type of things you should look for

595
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: with different position groups in terms of how that change

596
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: of direction can really make a difference for some of

597
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: the players. Yeah, it does. In fact, it's even more

598
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: so now guys, because um, you know, the base defense

599
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: anymore is a four two five. I mean, let's say,

600
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: you know, right, first first down, you got three whiteouts

601
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: out there, and you gotta have linebackers and covers. So

602
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: you want to see those line factors be able to

603
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: run and change direction because that's what they're gonna be

604
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: doing in a game. And uh, you know that when

605
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: you do the uh twenty yard shuttle. You know when

606
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: you plant and drive and again that's the thing that

607
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: you want to see that on the film. But at

608
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: the combine, you want to see a guy, you know,

609
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: run like a linebacker. If they run the low fours,

610
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: I mean, that's outstanding the defensive back. If you can

611
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: get into threes, you know, I know, three point eight six,

612
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: three point seven one have you? Um, you know you

613
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: can see that explosiveness they stick that put the gold

614
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: boom go then. But again it's all a practice, you know, uh, event,

615
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: and that those guys work. I mean they go through

616
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: that a million times before hitting the combine, so it's

617
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: not naturally so you want to in their game film

618
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: you deal with fee their ability to change direction. But no,

619
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: it is extremely important. Even offensive lineman, say for instance,

620
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: when they're they're um, you know, sliding back and forth

621
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: when they do the drills worthy, Uh, there's an offensive

622
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: lineman across one. You know, they move the latter really

623
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: real quick, and you're supposed to mirror them, you know,

624
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: and you want to see that. You know what they're

625
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: like their feet the offensive line. You want to feet

626
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: close together. You want to underneath their shoulders or just

627
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: our armpits are just a little bit wider, so you

628
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: keep that good pace. You want to see bend in there,

629
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: and that's the big thing when you're looking at these

630
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: guys during the combine, you want to see that bend

631
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: in their knees, their natural neat bender so they can

632
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: move laterally so they don't have to say spot and

633
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: then move. They they're already down there, you know their

634
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: neat bend, and then they can move a laddally and

635
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: stay square. But that's that's really for We can a

636
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: lot of football position and that's what you play in,

637
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: so you want to see that, you know, on the

638
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: on the in the drills. So we have come to combine.

639
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: To me, the giants opportunity to select a variety of

640
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: players at number four is gonna be really affected and

641
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: impacted by how many quarterbacks go up high. And I

642
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: think the combine may factor into that, or at least

643
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: that's what I'm gonna ask you, Because we think Burrows

644
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 1: going to number one at the Bengals, and then two

645
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: and three with the red Skins and the Lions and

646
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: somebody who might want to trade up either ahead of

647
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: the Giants or with the Giants. It seems like the

648
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: quarterback position could hold the key to who the Giants

649
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: are gonna have available for them at four. So how

650
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: much will the combine do you believe factor in to

651
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: the desire for people up in that area to go

652
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,479
Speaker 1: for qbs, especially with TWA who was coming off the injury.

653
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: Well that that's a very good point. They're gonna find

654
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: out coming out of that combine that physically how he's

655
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: gonna be because that all of a sudden might put

656
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: Washington and Detroit and to play for trades because of

657
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: you know, people that want to him. But I mean,

658
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: he still scares me. I mean, I'll be honest with you.

659
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,719
Speaker 1: I'd have him on our side board, and I wouldn't

660
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: take him to a certain part of the dat because

661
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: I mean, he's already been beat up too much now

662
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: and as you guys know him in the NFL, I

663
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: mean you know, I mean, you're gonna throw a twenty

664
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: million dollars at this guy and he may not play

665
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: it down or play very little because he's always in

666
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: the tub, you know. And uh, I'll sign him on

667
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: my second contract. But before he was injured, though, I

668
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: will say this, we loved him. I mean, he was

669
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: a terrific football player, super accurate, he could he had

670
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: good mobility, but you know with the ankles and then

671
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: a knee and then the hip now and I'll tell

672
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: you what, that is not a good thing. And uh

673
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: he has had some shoulder deals along the way. Nothing

674
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna find out after the combine exactly

675
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: how you know physically. But like you said, I mean

676
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: that could play an important part. Uh, you know, people

677
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: moving up, especially if it's quarterbacks, which that's why you

678
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: know a lot of people make a move. But I

679
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: mean I didn't Dave Gentleman had loved to set right

680
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: there and get you know, Chase Young at four you

681
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Uh, I mean I and uh,

682
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: you know, the crazier things have happened, but um uh

683
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: you know, people moving up for the quarterbacks and Herbert,

684
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: uh you know he's probably not a top ten guy.

685
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: Uh And realistically, but hey, people go crazy for quarterbacks.

686
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: And somebody's gonna take two up there somewhere, you know,

687
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: no matter they're gonna say. You know, it's gonna be funny.

688
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: Miami would take him because they wouldn't take group res

689
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: with that show, you you know, and now we're gonna

690
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: take it. We're gonna take a guy that that was

691
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: in a mass unit. You know that that you know, so,

692
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: I mean that that would be real interesting to me.

693
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: So uh, because you know this, a lot of teams,

694
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: their doctors are some of them really drilled down deep

695
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: so to speak on on certain injuries, whether it's knee, shoulders, max,

696
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: what have you. And Miami was always you know, the

697
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,479
Speaker 1: shoulder need people. So i'd be really interesting. Of course

698
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: they probably got all fired after after you know, saving

699
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 1: quite fired them all after Breeze went, you know, to Orleans.

700
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: So but but but anyway, um so no, I mean

701
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: there's no question that. But but at the comby itself,

702
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,919
Speaker 1: I don't know that the physicals will be the most

703
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: important part on the field stuff for decisions of that

704
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: top ten that probably not much because you're gonna you know,

705
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: have your opinions pretty much zeroed in on. But you know,

706
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: until you get those physicals. And like to say, the interviews, Yeah,

707
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: one of the questions wentn't ask a lot of the

708
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: combined Dan And we'll just go through a couple of

709
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: players at the top here before we let you go,

710
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: and and we thank you for the time as always.

711
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 1: How do you differentiate between those kind of four or

712
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: maybe you don't think it's for maybe you think it's

713
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: less or more. They kind of those four top offensive

714
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: line and a lot of people having a cluster Thomas

715
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: from Georgia, Worth, Sam Iowa, Beckton from Louisville, Wills from Alabama.

716
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,439
Speaker 1: How do you differ in cheap between those four guys?

717
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: Are there big gaps between them? Just how do you

718
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: see the top of the offensive tackle class? Yeah? I

719
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 1: know that that is a super super question. And what

720
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 1: I like to do is I go and I look

721
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: at those guys back to back to back to back

722
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: like three times during the year, you know, early in

723
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: the year, and then uh, I look at a mid season,

724
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: and then I look at him late and if they

725
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: played in the bowl game, I'll look at him in

726
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: the bowl games. And uh, but I mean worse as

727
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,959
Speaker 1: our top guy. I mean, you know, everybody talks about

728
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: Wills and all that stuff, but Will is not a finisher.

729
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: He's a place stout at times, but he has problems

730
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: with really edged speed. Uhum. To me, worse is a

731
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: first of all, it's been you know, coach like a

732
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: pro for three years. He's a He's a better athlete

733
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: than any of those guys. I mean you're talking about

734
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: sixty seven put you know, seven sixty seven foot shot putter.

735
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: A guy that's through disc is over two hundred. I mean,

736
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: this guy is a terrific foot depth and he's this

737
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: guy was probably the biggest baseball player and captivity you know,

738
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: uh in high school and stuff when and uh he played.

739
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: He love playing baseball. He played all the sports and uh,

740
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: I just think that. And I've seen him. He played

741
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: right down the road from us there and he was

742
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: a mountain vernon Iowa and I saw it in Iowa,

743
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 1: you know, for three years. So I mean, and that's

744
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: and I'm harder on Iowa guys and probably most people

745
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: because I see him all the time, you know what

746
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: I mean. I mean I see him all the time,

747
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: and so I I if there's holes in their game,

748
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: I see it, you know. But I think right now, aren't.

749
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it's gonna take something to change that. But

750
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: workst our top guy Wills is second like Thomas because

751
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: of the speed and that he played in And you

752
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: know the thing is he's got to play with a

753
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: coach that puts a little fire under because he can

754
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: when he gets um if he gets beat, I mean,

755
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, that competitive fire on him gets

756
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: it gets ratcheted up a whole bunch and then back

757
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: and he's a big man, mountain guy. But um, he's

758
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: not a top ten pick. I think Thomas is probably

759
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: you know in that twelve thirteen area. Uh I'll tell

760
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: you I would not hesitate. People thought it was crazier

761
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: in Helen when I said, sure is a top five

762
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: pick who went to the Redskins back in the day.

763
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 1: And uh, I think worse is gonna be. You know,

764
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: he could very well be a top five guy. He

765
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 1: could be a guy for the Giants, you know at five,

766
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: you know at four, and uh, I know that you've

767
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: got to have one. You know, you gotta have and

768
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: uh now if you pray back, you can't still get

769
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: your guy. And maybe that's you know, that's what you

770
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: can do. But but what else to me from Alabama?

771
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: He just a lot of those Alabama guys, Um, they

772
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: struggle and they get in the league. I don't know

773
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: why all the times at times based because they're beat up.

774
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: But but and they're coached, you know, with protect aches

775
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: and everything. But I think they come along a little

776
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: bit slower than some of the you know top Iowa

777
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: offensive lineman for instance, who that's and they were weaned,

778
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: you know, on the zone blocking schemes and things, and

779
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: they get their hands inside the frame and they'll lock

780
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: on you and they'll ride you, and they'll they'll compete,

781
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: they'll finish, and it bothers me about will the way

782
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: he finishes, and that's why we moved you know, worst

783
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: number one. Well, then uh, John would testify on my behalf.

784
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: I was a big sheriff guy coming out of school

785
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: and I was crushed when the Redskins took him. But anyway,

786
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: aside from that final question for me, let's put uh

787
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: your needs aside. If you're strictly a GM, who was

788
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: talking best player available and you had to choose between

789
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: Isaiah Simmons and Jeffrey Okuda, and you were like, okay, man,

790
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: these two guys are just terrific players. They had tremendous

791
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: production in college. But now I got to project to

792
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: the NFL level, which guy are you you wing more?

793
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 1: And why? Given their potential on your board, Well you

794
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: have to go, I Saiah Simmons because of versatility. I mean,

795
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: this guy can do and can do anything and line

796
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: up anywhere I mean, you can move him all over

797
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: your defense. He can blitz, he can cover, uh, you know,

798
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: because he was a former safety. You know, when he

799
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: goes into Clemson and now it's such a premium, you've

800
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: got to be able to those linebackers that can cover. Uh,

801
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: he can blitz, he's got great acceleration off the snap. Um,

802
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 1: you know, he can drop. He can run with probably

803
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 1: anybody out there except for maybe the four or three receivers.

804
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 1: And then he you got a good collision in five yards,

805
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: he might not be able to get up and take

806
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: off running. So I don't, you know, I go with him,

807
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 1: you know, but I love Okuda too. I mean, Couda

808
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: though he's gonna be here shut down corner. He's the

809
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: top our top corner in this draft, and Simmons is

810
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: our top versatile linebacker. And some people, you know, with

811
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: that big nickel, now that a lot of people play,

812
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: you can play him at safety safety. You know, you

813
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: can put this guy in. And so I think that's

814
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: what separates the two Kuda. But if you know, you

815
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: put my feet to the fire and say, hey, Dan

816
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 1: were at four we gotta take one of these guys

817
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: who we gotta take we'll go ahead and take Simmons

818
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: and then in the second round, you know, we try

819
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: to get if we you know, we gotta get a corner.

820
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: We gotta you know, make a move and do that.

821
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: I don't think there is a ton of depth at

822
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: corner this year, but I still think there's gonna be

823
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: some good ones available, you know, in a second round.

824
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: And but they won't be those shutdown guys that well

825
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: then there's not a ton of odes that really Kudas,

826
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: you know, really a top guy. So all right, Dan,

827
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 1: final question for me, and then we'll say goodbye. Anybody

828
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: that we're missing that you think should be in the

829
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: mix of four that we haven't asked you about. And

830
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: if the answer to that is no, just just give

831
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: me someone that maybe you think is a lot better

832
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: than than getting credit for out there in the uh

833
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: you know, draft media world right now. Well, you know

834
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: I think that, uh I I would agree with everything

835
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: you said in regards to um, you know, those offensive lines.

836
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: Some people are don't like Will's better than I do.

837
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: I like, like I said, I like works better. Um

838
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, and then obviously okuda um I think then

839
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: the Simmons, he's in the mix now, I don't know

840
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: if anybody would put a wide receiver up there, because

841
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: I think you there's so many receivers that you could

842
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: get those guys a little bit later. I know, you

843
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: can't get a lamb laser. He can't get a judy,

844
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: you know, later he's gonna go on the mid mid

845
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: first or lates first, or what have you. But but

846
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: I think that that covers, you know, the top guys

847
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 1: that could help the Giants at least at this point.

848
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: And sometimes guys emerge, um, you know, one way or another.

849
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, hey and Edge. You know what, we didn't

850
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: talk about Chase Young because everybody thinks that's a foregone conclusion.

851
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: He's gone it too. But the tackles we touched on,

852
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: and then the top corner back and then the linebacker

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00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: in uh Semon. So Nope, I think we got them all. Dan,

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00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 1: you're the best. We appreciate the time. We'll definitely talk

855
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: to you again at some point before the draft. We

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00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: appreciate your insight and all your expertise and your experience

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00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: doing this for a real long time. Thanks so much

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00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: for the time, looking forward to the next time, guys,

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00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: Thanks a million. All right, those are two guests. We

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00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: thank Dan Shanko. We thank lenzier Line for joining us

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00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 1: today on the Giant Subtle Podcast. For Paul Detino, I

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00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,720
Speaker 1: am John Schmulk again. You can find the gihnt Subtle

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00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: Podcast on giants dot com, The Giants mob, blapp and

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00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: all your favorite podcast platforms. Find the subscribe at us

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00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: to your favorites. If you're an Apple podcast, please leave

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00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: a positive review, and for all the Giants podcast offerings,

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00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: go to giants dot com slash podcast. We'll see you

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00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 1: next time. Everybody