WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Branford Marsalis 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:08.119 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. What's Up. 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.400 It's June and that means it's Black Music Month, and 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:14.480 every year on Questlove Supreme and now The Quest Love Show, 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.440 we honor it by bringing you an episode every day 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:21.479 that celebrates black music, it's history and its impact. My 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.000 team and I have selected episodes from our archive that 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:28.080 we feel are specially relevant to the celebration, offering history, 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:29.320 insight and. 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:30.720 A little fun along the way. 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.240 So be on the lookout for four brand new episodes 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:37.479 throughout June, each connected to the past, president future of 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:38.160 black music. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:39.919 We're going to highlight. 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:45.400 Trail blazers, innovators, cultural conduits, and revolutionaries whose word continues 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:46.240 to shape. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:50.280 The world around us. Happy June, Happy Black Music Month. 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:55.680 Yo Yo, what's up? 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:56.040 Y'alli? 0:00:56.200 --> 0:01:01.200 Is Fonte Fontigelow with this week's K Classic. Back in 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:02.240 December twenty. 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:06.400 Twenty, we interview my man jazz legend Branford Marcellus. You're 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:08.319 gonna hear me laughing a lot in this episode because 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.199 Brandon is the rat. He holds nothing back, he don't 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:15.080 sugarcoat shit, and he is also wrapping my alma mater, 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.720 ncc go filand the City University Eagle pride up in 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.560 this thing. We have Overlappentie and this is just a 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:26.040 guy that I truly just love and just admire his work. 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:28.440 And we had a great time in this episode. Y'all 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:28.880 enjoyed it? 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:43.800 All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.720 Quest Love Supreme, your host Quest Love. 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.840 We have Teams Supreme with us. We're right heelers. So 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:56.280 this was he quieter episode, like he is on vacation. 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:57.560 He took us. 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:02.720 He's taking a pandemic vacation, a pandemic pandemication. 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.320 All right, so we got a sugar Steve and I 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:06.960 paid Bill. 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:09.480 How's going live from the street. 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.040 I saw your anniversary photo on Sesame Street today on Twitter, 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:14.880 So congratulations. 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.480 Or made congratulations on. 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:20.480 Eleven. 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.400 Dang oh year eleven for you, but fifty for the 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:24.680 institution of Sesame Street. 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:25.080 I get it. 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:26.920 I said before that I hadn't held a job for 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.800 like fifty hours, so it's good I can have that one. 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.760 Well, bruh, I'm proud of you. I'm super proud of you, 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.840 ladies and gentlemen. Uh, what can I say? Our guests 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.760 really doesn't need any introduction, but he's so legendary. You know, 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.359 this gentleman is part of one of the probably one 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:55.720 of the most important musical dynasties music, second to the Jacksons. 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:57.920 Yo, I mean yo, man, accept your flowers, yo. 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:02.079 Like no cat, no cat, real takey flowers right now. 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:06.680 He's trying to stop me already, you know. Saxophonist, Uh, 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:19.040 jazz historian, hip hop aficionado, actor, late night band leader, composer, conductor, scorer, everything. Uh, 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:23.000 this this, this, this man is a true renaissance gentlemen. 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:25.520 We're very honored to have him on the show. Please 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.840 welcome be great brand from Marcellos to Quest lof Supreme. 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:35.760 Sir, Yes, how's it? Where are you right now? North Carolina? 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:36.600 Oh? 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.640 Okay, you're right round the way from me. I'm in Raleigh. Wow, 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:41.720 all right, I didn't know if you were still in 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.000 the area. I saw you. I think we saw each other. 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:46.360 It was on a flight. This has been like pre 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.840 rona times we saw you on a flight and run 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:51.440 it to you for real. 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:53.880 Right, But that's what's up. 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:00.480 Okay, So you're you're still at You're teaching at NC 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:02.840 State Central. 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:04.000 Right? 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:04.920 How many? 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:05.600 How many? 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:07.280 I one day? 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.280 I want I want someone to properly explained to me. 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:13.040 All the North Carolina institutions. 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:17.919 North Carolina State is in Raleigh, is an engineering school 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:22.120 in the triangle alone, I think we have. 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:28.600 Three HBCUs, Shaw, Saint All and NCCU. 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:33.320 Yes, North Carolina Central. I see, And how how long 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:35.920 you've been at North Carolina Central? 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:37.440 Since two thousand and five? 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:37.800 I think? 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.159 And what are you teaching there right now? Music? 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:44.280 That's economics right right? 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.160 You know, it's actually more of a philosophy course than 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:55.480 anything else. It's not really a course, it's just how 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:56.839 to think in musical terms. 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:58.479 That's cool, Okay. 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:05.120 Since since you've been there for fifteen years, do you 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:10.440 find is it harder each increasing year to get people 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.440 to understand a point of view of music that might 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:18.520 have seemed easier, say when if you were teaching a 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.520 class of like say nineteen ninety six, nineteen ninety seven, 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.360 that's closer to the music that you were involved in, 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:27.920 as opposed to dealing with gen Z in their way 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:28.240 of life? 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.320 Or are they teaching you? There was a point where 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:31.960 I was teaching. 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.440 My students, and then the last year of school, I 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:38.279 slowly realized, oh, they're teaching me, And that was scary 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.240 to me, right, but it's. 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:43.960 Always in exchange. I teach them more than that they 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.040 teach me. But almost all of the kids that are 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:51.160 at the school are from the North Carolina area, and 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.800 they all basically come out of the church. Okay, so 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.480 their exposure to jazz per se is when they get 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.480 to the school. Can grow up playing jazz and grow 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:02.320 up listening to it. 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:04.720 And I enjoy that. 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.480 I enjoy that. And the goal is not to create 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.320 jazz musicians, but to use jazz's kind of a template 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.120 to develop a thought process regardless of what style of 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.160 music you end up playing. Most of our students that 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:19.679 are doing well don't play jazz. 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:24.640 And that's that's okay with you. No, I'm horrified. It's terrible. 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:28.640 What what's hard fining about it? 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:30.880 What making I'm learning every bit. 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.240 What I did for twenty years of my life. No, 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:36.719 I can't. 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:40.599 I get that. But people arrive at a different place 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.280 in their life at different points in our life. And no, 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.200 but I'm at a different place in my life. Okay. 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.280 It doesn't mean that everybody else needs to be in 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:48.880 a place. 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.320 Where I am. All Right, I got to ask the 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:52.400 hard questions I. 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.680 Was talking to the students today, and it was about that. 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:58.120 It was about like how I'm like, I'm sixty now, 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.600 so I don't listen to the same music that I 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:02.720 did when I was thirty, and I definitely would listen 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.480 to it in the same way, Okay, And the idea, 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:10.119 and the idea isn't a question of liking or hating. 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.560 It's just just like, at various points of your life, 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.960 without gradually knowing it, without knowing it, you very gradually 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:19.160 just move away from things. 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:21.800 It doesn't mean that you hate them, you just just 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:22.640 move away from it. 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.960 What's an example of something you listen to, say, when 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.880 you were thirty, and you listen to now and you 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:30.680 hear it in a different way. What's different about it? 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.680 Oh? No, it depends on what it is. Okay. 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:39.200 If I'm listening to like one of those old show 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.920 biz in ag records, yess r, it sounds like it 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.720 did then. I mean, it's not like, oh no, oh, 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:49.240 I didn't never heard that before, you know, or one 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.360 of like Premier's records, or just stuff that I was around, 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:57.520 you know, Public Enemy or KRS. Just that whole style, 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:01.840 Like what is hip hop now? It's like vastly different 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.120 in general from what it was back then. Oh, you 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:10.440 got to tell me right now, this is a whole 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.840 different kind of thing. So when I hear it, it's like, oh, 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.760 it brings me back to that time, and I enjoy it, 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:20.920 but like like unlike a lot. 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:22.880 Of my friends from high school, and they openly tease 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:24.880 me about it, and I tease them. I am the 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:30.280 person least likely that listens to listen to seventies classic. 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:31.560 R and B radio. 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.760 Okay, you know I did that, and I was there 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:36.679 and I loved it, and then I move on to 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:38.040 this other thing and I. 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.520 Keep moving forward, even if the music is one hundred 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.079 years old is new to me. I get exposed to 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:48.079 things and I try not to. And it's not like 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.560 I'm cool with nostalgia. If it comes on, I'm gonna 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:53.199 listen to it and go, man, I love that, but 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:55.199 I'm not going to actively put that on. 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.199 Yeah, I think the playlist, like culture now, the way 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.319 people consume me music has really kind of made that 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:05.640 even more pronounced because now there's really no such thing 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:08.120 as music. There's no such thing as old music or 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:10.360 new music. It's just either you know it or you don't. 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:13.679 So if I'm listening to a playlist and it's a 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.800 song on there from twenty fifteen. I don't know, you 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:19.760 know what I mean. I could have been yesterday, you 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:20.160 know what I mean. 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.720 And I guess the temptation to not go to your 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:27.320 default place, Like right now, I'm really trying to force 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:31.120 myself to not go to the playlist I curate, because 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:33.920 I'm gonna I fall in a rabbit hole of just 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.880 the stuff that I'm used to And you know, I'm 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.160 trying to discover new music and I'm kind of running 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:40.679 the wells getting a little dry right now. 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:41.360 So I don't know. 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.439 There's a few friends that I trust in their playlist 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:46.920 and I'll sneaker on their spotify is to see what 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.520 they got, and you know, I might discover like five 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:51.280 or six new songs I have. But now that the 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.000 wells getting dry, like the temptation to just not go 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:58.840 to my default comfort zone is that's a scary thing now, 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:02.920 Like I'm running out of mute that I don't know about, 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:05.599 and that's that's a scary thing to me because I 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:07.000 know there's much more out there. 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.480 What's the difference. I'll be curious to know. Branth or 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.439 your take on what is the difference between music? What 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:15.719 would you say is the difference between music that is 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.959 challenging versus something that you just don't like, you know 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:21.880 what I mean? Like Amir was talking about, you know, 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.240 kind of getting out of your comfort zone. But where 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:26.560 is that line for you between Okay, this is something 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.079 that's challenging me a little bit versus this is just 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.000 something that I just ain't I ain't really rocking with. 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:34.320 Well, for me, the musicians have to sound like they're 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:38.679 interacting with one another for me to like it. I 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:43.040 can kind of tell when records are kind of produced 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:45.439 in a way that one track was done on Wednesday 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:46.080 and another track. 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.079 Was done on Thursday. A lot of records are productions 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:50.400 now right. 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:52.920 All you have to do is put on just about 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.959 any record in any style from the sixties and compare 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.520 it to now. And there's an organic energy in those 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.120 records because it was human beings in a room. 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.400 That's the stuff that I prefer to listen to. 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.679 But I don't really I don't really get with the like, 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.719 you know, like I don't hear things and go, oh 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:12.480 you know, I don't. 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:13.040 I don't like that. 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.079 I'll listen to it first and then go, yeah, that's 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.520 not my thing. But challenging music is interesting because it 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:22.600 goes against kind of the tenets of popular culture. Because 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:24.920 if it's something that's really challenging, really good, your first 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:26.160 instinct is not to like it. 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:29.400 You have to grow to like it. And we don't 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:30.960 usually give music that much time. 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.840 You know, It's not like it's like it's not like, yeah, 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.760 this shit sucks, I'm gonna put it on tomorrow. 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.800 It's like, no, it sucks. After that first listen, it 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:43.120 is over. 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.920 I mean, but sometimes I mean I might, I might 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.079 get fomo. There will be something like I'll give an example. 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.520 When the Chronic came out. I hated the Chronic right 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.520 and I said, Yo, this shit sucks, man, hate this ship, 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:01.280 and but I have FOMO because everyone else had this 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.480 whole fifty million Elvis fans can't be wrong. 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:06.679 And I felt like, well, what does it mean that's 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:07.439 not accepting it? 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:11.199 And I realized that, you know, sonically, doctor Dre was 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:16.079 taking I wanted my hip hop dirty and nasty and 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.079 kind of like this amateurist uh DIY thing, and he 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.439 just made it sound so clean that you know, it 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:26.959 took me a good decade to really open up and 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:27.599 accept that. 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.080 Okay, this is a really great piece of work. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.720 So it's a lot different than the East Coast sound. 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.880 It really well at that time it was, oh yeah, 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.840 it was I wasn't used to that cleaning cleanliness. You know, Hey, 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:45.360 where do you where do you fall in your you're brewed? 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:49.040 And and your brothers? Where do you? Are you the top? 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:50.839 You're the oldest? Okay? 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:55.280 So what the question we start with as far as 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.600 like your musical discovery, do you remember the first album 0:12:57.880 --> 0:12:58.600 you ever purchased? 0:12:59.520 --> 0:12:59.720 Yeah? 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.520 I remember the first two albums ever, pardon what is it? 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.800 The Elton ghen record called Honky Chateau and a record 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:10.520 by Shawn called The Big Bamboo Smokys told? 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:12.719 Is that the one with Mona Lisa's and Manhatters on it? 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:13.319 No? 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.480 Maybe it did, bablay that's the one with a Honky 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:22.120 Cat on Okay, okay, wait, maybe Mona Lisas is on 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:22.680 that record. 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:25.000 Maybe Mona Lisa's is on that record? 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.040 Well, okay, you'll cover that. That was the first time 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.080 I ever heard that song, Ireat. 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:32.559 It's like one of them things for when I heard 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:34.160 it as a kid. I said, one day, when I 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.640 make a record, I'm going to record this song. And 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.440 thirty years later we were sitting there with Premier said, man, 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:41.840 what are we gonna do? I said, I got an idea. 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:43.079 I want to do this song. I'll been wanting to 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.920 do it since I was ten. Yeah, we kind of 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.319 sketched out there, you know, the arrangement of it, and 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:52.160 it was, you know, it probably is, you know, I 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:53.960 don't that's a long time ago. 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:54.280 I don't. 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.319 I know the songs, but I don't remember. And I 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.120 had so many eton genre records, I don't know which 0:13:58.200 --> 0:13:58.679 ones was on. 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.600 Which release is on that side too? Yeah, side too 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.760 of that? Oh it's on side to Honky Chateau. Thank you. Yeah, 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.000 that's a good record, man. But those are the first 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:09.000 two records I have a bok. 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.360 Okay, well this I guess I'm just going to dive 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.400 in the fire. I was shocked because, you know, I 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:20.400 guess the perception that most people have of anyone that 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.280 comes from the Marcella's household is that you guys were 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:30.120 intravenously breathing, sleeping, and eating anything jazz and nothing else. 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.960 At least, that was the kind of perception that most 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:34.240 of us have had. 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:37.120 About That's fair enough because I mean a lot of 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.720 people when you decided to play something that's not popular, 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.880 people try to try to invent an explanation for why 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:43.240 that is. 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:46.280 Oh, you know, they've been doing it since they were kids. 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.040 I hated jazz when I was a kid, just did 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.040 not like it at all. Okay, went and started digging 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:54.960 it when he was about twelve, and I was like, yeah, 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.080 that's nice, man, keep listening to that shit if you 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:01.840 want to. Yeah, you know that was My dad was 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:03.520 a jazz musician. He was like, you know, to me, 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.960 no different than the dude. You know, some dads some 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.160 moms are lawyers, some moms some dads of carpenters. My 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.520 dad played music, you know, and it wasn't like, oh, jazz, 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.240 you know. My dad would put on these jazz records. 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:19.320 I leave the room. So he tried to force like 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.080 King Oliver on you guys, and it's just like, I. 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.120 Don't even know that. He was mostly a post bop dude, 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:28.080 you know. It's like, you know, all that late forties 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.080 up until when he started having kids and couldn't afford 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.080 to buy records. No more so from late forties to 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:37.840 sixty that was more his thing, especially Coltran, fifty seven 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.480 Coltrane all the way up to sixty seven Coltrane, and 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:42.200 that was that was his That was fair. 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:47.840 My introduction to your dad was via your brother's thank 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:52.680 you at the Grammy Awards, right, and your your brother 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:59.360 thanked your dad for forcing him to practice, which sparked 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.840 a fire and my own dad, who was watching, you know, 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:05.400 that was that was the year that Michael Jackson had. 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:07.760 That was the year that Michael Jackson had, you know, 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.920 won all those awards, and your brother had won for 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.040 Classical in Jazz, and that was like kind of his 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:18.560 his arrival party. And that moment was such a profound 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.080 That was one of the worst moments of my life 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:24.280 in eighty four. And my dad will say that was 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:26.680 the most profound moment of his life because that's when 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.040 he was like, all right, you're now going to come 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:32.040 straight home after school and start practicing four. 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:33.760 To five hours every day. 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:36.120 Feel and so what. 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:43.120 Like, was was practice mandatory in this household or was 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.920 it just like, at what point were you guys to 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:47.520 take your missicians? 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:51.920 Well, specifically you as the oldest like that knows how 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:53.800 to tell a good story. I mean, my dad didn't 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:54.800 make anybody practice. 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:59.160 Man, don't tell me that I freaking sacrificed my damn 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:00.640 wife off of up in legend. 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:01.480 Yep. 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:07.160 Fuck it worked out well for yours. Don't worry about 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:08.080 getting hurt. 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.679 Man. This is this is this is worse than finding 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:14.360 out the Sugarfoot Love roller Coaster scream wasn't a real thing. 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:14.920 It wasn't real. 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.160 I went up to him like, hey, wasn't a really 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:18.640 stop boy, that wasn't a real thing. 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:25.240 Yeah, y'all heard that. Yeah, it's actually it was actually 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:29.159 FOP that was that girl getting murdered. No, I'm telling you, 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:31.760 people think it's Love roller coaster. At the end of 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:36.560 FOP on on side to was that murderous scream, and 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.120 it was just there's this one I Love roller coaster too, 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:41.200 in the second half after they break it down. 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.440 There's the worst one on FIP. Trust me, I haven't 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:46.760 heard the one on FU Yes, And I was just 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:48.200 listening to a couple of weeks ago. 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.120 Man, I did a nostalgia run because for my kids, 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:51.480 because they ain't never heard none of that stuff. 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:52.240 They never heard it. 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.639 Okay, okay, so your career is based off of a 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:57.480 win Marceals Live. So there you go. 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.639 Regularly. No, Winton was very self motivated. He practiced three 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:05.960 hours a day on his own, and he did just 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:07.680 three I was five. 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:12.159 Well, Winton, he was an interesting specimen. He was a 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:16.560 national a merit scholar, so you know, he had like 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.720 you know, he got free ride scholarships from Stanford and 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:24.440 from Harvard and all these places because he was academically. 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:24.520 On the top of it. 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.159 He was a national amrit scholar. And he would have 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.600 to practice in increments. The practiced by half an hour 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:32.760 day in the morning before school, and we would come 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.200 home for lunch. We're practice a half an hour between lunch. 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:38.280 Then we would go to the music school because we 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:40.360 at this interesting thing. We had to go to academic 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.000 school from eight to twelve. 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.439 And the music school from one to six. So then 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:46.280 we went to the New Orleans Andenter of Creative Arts. 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:48.639 And you practice for an hour or so at school 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:51.040 in between classes. 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:52.720 It adds up to an hour, and then at home 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.680 he practiced for an hour after the homework and then 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:59.280 repeat that cycle every day. I was impressed, and I'm 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.919 glad it wasn't but I was impressed. So what were 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.080 you doing during this time here? Because I mean I 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:10.960 was learning Bob. I was listening to Parliament Funkadelic, the Barcades. 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.000 I was fourteen years old. I was in a R 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:15.000 and B band with a bunch of men who had jobs. 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:17.840 So I was basically the piano player in that band, 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.200 and I was learning all the songs that wanted the 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.760 radio and all their parts because they had real jobs. 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.160 So I promised them, like when we had practice on Thursday, 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:29.919 I wouldn't know all their parts too, so they wouldn't 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.080 have to deal with it then, because if because what 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:34.960 I noticed when I joined the band, we were playing 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.320 like the same ten songs every week, you know, the 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:43.080 Love I Lost, Wake Up Everybody. And I was like, man, 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.280 are we going to do anything else? And they're like, 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:48.720 we got real jobs. We ain't got no time for 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:50.600 that shit. So I said, all right, I'll learn the songs. 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:52.240 I learned the songs. 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:53.840 I would learn all the songs that would hear a 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:55.920 song on the radio. I go by the forty five 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.320 ninety nine cents. Learned the songs and they didn't read music, 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.200 so it's not like I write a chart. So I 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.680 would learn the bassline, the guitar part, everybody's parks, and 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:05.359 then I would sing the parts, didn't if they were 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:06.760 questionable about anything. 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:09.119 And my mother was pissed. 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:10.440 She was like, you know, they just using you. 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:12.800 And my Dad's like, man, that's good here training to 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:16.120 lead the boy alone. Let him do it. So after 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:19.280 about a year of doing that, it was hard at first. 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:21.760 By the time I was fifteen, I could learn the 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:23.600 song off the radio as it was coming off the radio, 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:25.320 because you know, the whole point of those songs is 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:26.399 that they're not hard to listen to. 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.480 That's part of the appeal. So you just start writing 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.440 the chord charts right there. 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:32.440 They didn't read. 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:34.600 I was nobody in the band read but me and 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:36.440 my brother. So no, I wasn't writing nothing down. 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:38.320 I was just learning songs and telling them what the 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:41.480 notes were and singing the bassline, sing the guitar part. 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:42.720 We put the forty five on. 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.000 I bring the forty five to practice, put them on, 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:46.800 and we learned songs that way, and that way we 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:47.480 could play. 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:48.800 More of a variety of songs. 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:52.680 What was the level of musician, Like, I'm assuming this 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.119 is New Orleans, correct, as in New Orleans, all right, 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:58.920 So what was the level of musician, especially funk musicianship 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.639 can I assume that for every meters there were forty 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:04.480 other bands. 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.400 That could kick their ass that we just never heard 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:06.840 of or. 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:10.960 They all know meters special man, okay, needed special There 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:12.920 were you know, there were a lot of good bands 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:13.200 in New. 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:15.840 Orleans either meters, come on, that was something else. 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:17.760 I mean we would always go and check them out. 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:19.480 And there was a place called the Labor Union Hall 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:22.520 on North Clayborne Street and they be playing that for 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:26.399 five bucks, you know. So here the meters. Yeah, I 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:28.320 was some special ship man, you know. And that's the 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:30.880 music from their neighborhood. I grew up in their neighborhood. 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:32.879 I grew ab up town. So I mean they you know, 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.920 their neighborhood, they had that thing. But there were a 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:39.879 lot of great musicians in town. You know, a lot 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:42.359 of great musicians. We had brass band musicians, we had 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.680 jazz musicians, we had trad musicians, R and B musicians, 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.720 rock and roll musicians, R and B musicians. We had 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:50.080 that New Orleans flunk. 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:53.280 Like Professor long Hair and all that stuff. Yeah, Professor 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:53.800 long Hair. 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:57.760 And then then his his descendant was a James Jones, 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.879 James doctor John too. See, by the time I was 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:03.359 conscious Doc Mackett already moved to La body. 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:05.320 Oh okay, gotcha. 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:07.320 Mac gone by the time, like in the seventies. 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:11.520 My my musical consciousness starts around nineteen seventy seventy one, 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:14.080 and Macott already moved to La and you know he 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.280 was doing like was that song that a big hit? 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:19.320 Right place, wrong time, right wrong time? 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:21.480 You know, And my dad would laugh whenever it came on. 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:23.600 He goes, man, let's know, Mac, that's great. 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:25.600 And that's what I loved about ving from war, like 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:27.800 we didn't have you know, when I moved to New 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:30.000 York and suddenly they were like jazz camp over here, 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:32.680 r and b camp over here. But in New Orleans, 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:34.920 I mean it's such a small city. All the musicians 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:38.000 was just in there. So anytime anybody did well, everybody cheered. 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:42.840 Yeah. Really in wait, Philly is that way too, though? No, No, 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:46.960 we're the worst fans of all time. So come about 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:47.840 as the musicians. 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:53.440 Musicians and what with my outsider interpretation of Philly musicians 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:55.600 don't really they don't, they don't. 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:59.600 They're like the cross genre really easily. They're not trying 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:02.160 to be especialist in a category. 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:06.639 That's my perception in the little time that I spent there, Okay, 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:09.600 because in New York it's very territorial and I kind 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:12.600 of laughed at them, but uh, you know, New Orleans 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:13.520 was just great that way. 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:17.040 So if you're saying that at the time when you 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:20.359 were in this band, how old were you were you 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:21.520 like fourteen fifteen? 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:23.640 I was twelve, so seven nineteen seventy two? 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:26.439 Wait, how old were they? If you were twelve? There 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:30.080 were men bad jobs? Oh okay. 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:32.359 At this point, are you saying that this is what 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:35.120 you want to do or I know what I wanted 0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:37.920 to be? So when did you take your musicianship seriously? 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:42.000 I took that shit seriously then, but it didn't mean 0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:46.000 that I wanted to do it. Okay, you know, think 0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:46.200 of it. 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:50.000 You know, it's like, you know, it's like playing sports. 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:52.000 I tried to play football. I took it seriously. I sucked. 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:53.520 I wasn't gonna be nobody's football player. 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:55.160 But it's not like, well, I'm I'm not gonna take 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:57.359 it seriously since I'm not gonna play it in college. 0:23:57.480 --> 0:23:59.119 I'm not gonna play in the NFL. It's just like, 0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:01.359 you know, you got there, try to play you out there? Trunk. 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:03.240 So I was in this band, and I. 0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:07.000 Took it very seriously. I learned everybody learned everybody's damn parts. 0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:08.320 I's definitely not taking it seriously. 0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:11.760 I was like a musical director and I was thirteen, 0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:16.359 so you know, I took it very seriously. 0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:18.480 And I was prepared, and I learned all these songs 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:20.760 and I did all my stuff, and that was where 0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:22.480 my head was, you know. 0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:26.840 And then went got Clifford Brown and classical music, and 0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:27.600 I thought it was great. 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:29.520 I played classical music when I was younger. I play 0:24:29.560 --> 0:24:30.080 clarinet in. 0:24:30.040 --> 0:24:33.680 The youth orchestra. Right, I remember this is actually the 0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:37.160 most well it's as an old man, it's pathetic. 0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:39.640 As a young person, it's it's probably a very common story. 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:41.919 Every said when you switch to play saxophone. 0:24:42.600 --> 0:24:46.920 I said, I was thirteen years old and I saw 0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:48.399 these girls and it was like the first time that 0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:52.240 I saw girls, and I went, damn, they fun. So 0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:55.200 they walking and I'm like filing behind them because I 0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:57.720 don't know what to do. And they walked into a 0:24:57.880 --> 0:25:02.080 dance and I went in and there was a band player, 0:25:02.840 --> 0:25:04.280 you know, And I looked in and I saw the 0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:06.160 band and I said, I got joined one of those bands, 0:25:06.200 --> 0:25:08.600 so I can mean girls. So I went home and 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:11.520 said I want a saxophone. Said so I joined the band, 0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:13.800 and my dad laughed and said okay, whatever. 0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:15.720 That's you know. And then Christmas I got in saxophone. 0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:18.160 I was already in the band playing piano. I didn't 0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:18.919 want to play piano. 0:25:19.520 --> 0:25:22.479 I wanted to play saxophone in the band. So when 0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:25.679 I was fourteen, I convinced this friend of mine, Kerman Campbell, 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:28.520 who's a really great piano player, because I was. I 0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:31.240 was not a great I was a functional piano player, 0:25:31.280 --> 0:25:34.359 you know, three note chords, the whole thing. I got Kerman, 0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:36.680 who was in this other band. I think it was 0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:39.360 like jam incorporator. I said, man, come join the creators 0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:41.160 man and he thought I was trying to double where 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:42.880 and say, wait a minute, man, you played piano. I said, 0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:44.240 not really, I. 0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:47.520 Don't play the vienna. You're the vienna player. You should 0:25:47.520 --> 0:25:48.280 come join the band. 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:49.800 Because I want to get a horn section because we 0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:52.600 had one horn player. John Roche was the trumpet player. 0:25:53.240 --> 0:25:55.159 Said I want to get a horn section, and I 0:25:55.240 --> 0:25:57.600 want to get me on alto and went into the 0:25:57.680 --> 0:26:00.240 other trumpet and we have this three piece horn section. Great, 0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:02.280 I don't know, bro, I don't know. I said, come on, 0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:05.520 Kerman and he did it. So then I played saxophone 0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:07.080 in the band and Kermit took over there. And then 0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:10.000 Kermit is a really musically knowledgeable guy. You know, he 0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:10.680 played in church. 0:26:11.160 --> 0:26:14.040 So we really got this music thing happening in the band. 0:26:14.520 --> 0:26:16.480 So the bass player was like, Okay, it's getting too 0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:16.879 heavy for me. 0:26:16.960 --> 0:26:18.480 I'm just gonna be the manager. Why don't you'll go 0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:19.200 get a better back. 0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:21.080 What the hell? 0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:21.720 Wow? 0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:22.720 He was right. 0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:24.560 I mean we were going to step the fire him 0:26:24.560 --> 0:26:26.639 if he didn't do that anyway, and he saw it. 0:26:27.359 --> 0:26:29.920 So he became the manager of the band and we 0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:32.600 got the Hamilton brothers. The drummer got mad at me 0:26:32.680 --> 0:26:34.920 and just quit Bertrane and said, you know, who do 0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:35.800 you think you are? Man? 0:26:35.880 --> 0:26:37.680 You know your little punk? I mean, I'm a grown 0:26:37.720 --> 0:26:38.160 ass man. 0:26:38.480 --> 0:26:38.840 I quit. 0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:43.760 Damn great, So he quit, and then we called the 0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:45.760 Hamilton brothers, Shannon and Anthony Hamilton. 0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:47.480 They joined the band, and that was pretty much what 0:26:47.560 --> 0:26:50.080 the band was for a long time. And you, it 0:26:50.160 --> 0:26:52.399 was you and your brother went in this band, me 0:26:52.680 --> 0:26:55.679 and Wynton and John Rochet with a horn section Anthony 0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:59.600 Hamilton on bass, Shannon Hamilton on drums, Michael As on guitar, 0:27:00.400 --> 0:27:03.040 Gavin Bell was the singer, Kermit was the keyboard player. 0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:05.199 Pretty much it. 0:27:06.600 --> 0:27:11.320 Wow, Okay, I'm glad I knew this story again, Like 0:27:13.000 --> 0:27:15.360 I guess my all time profession was that you guys 0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:20.320 were just born with these scepters and capes of want 0:27:20.440 --> 0:27:21.120 jazz world. 0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:22.520 And everybody wants to believe it. 0:27:22.560 --> 0:27:23.840 I don't know why they want to believe it. 0:27:23.840 --> 0:27:24.399 But it's fine. 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:26.520 So I'm not the only person that comes to you. 0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:31.000 You're already flying, You're already swatting flies. All my questions, I. 0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:32.960 Know, do you know what's coming? 0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:36.440 No, it's just like you know, yeah, it's not true, 0:27:36.520 --> 0:27:39.760 but people need to believe. It's fine, you know, like, yeah, 0:27:39.800 --> 0:27:42.359 we're we're the black Von Trapps. You know, we've been 0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:46.680 singing dead stands over us and says, no, let's do it. 0:27:50.119 --> 0:27:50.639 That's great. 0:27:52.280 --> 0:27:55.080 So you're telling me that, like your brother knows a 0:27:55.240 --> 0:27:57.679 horn line that like pee wee from the Ohio players 0:27:57.720 --> 0:27:58.880 once did in this lifetime. 0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:03.560 Yeah, I just refuse to believe that he knows anything 0:28:03.640 --> 0:28:04.480 outside of jazz. 0:28:04.600 --> 0:28:06.639 That. Okay, you're right, he doesn't know it. 0:28:07.600 --> 0:28:12.159 Well, I see that. Well, okay, well explain that to me. 0:28:12.280 --> 0:28:14.560 And I don't want to make this about like you 0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:16.760 can make it about whatever you want. I know that. 0:28:17.359 --> 0:28:19.639 I know it must be tired answering all these questions 0:28:19.680 --> 0:28:22.119 all this time, But you know, I always saw you, 0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:25.120 at least my perception. Again, this is like our first real, 0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:28.720 in depth conversation, and we've casually seen each other passing. 0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:28.920 By or whatever. 0:28:29.040 --> 0:28:31.720 But I mean, I always saw you as the king 0:28:31.800 --> 0:28:35.560 of yes, the king of open I'll do this, and 0:28:35.600 --> 0:28:37.800 i'll do that, and I'll do the other, whereas I 0:28:37.840 --> 0:28:40.680 would see your brother as the polar opposite, which I 0:28:40.760 --> 0:28:42.600 mean I respect it both because I guess in hip 0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:45.160 hop my true heart is kind of close to where 0:28:45.160 --> 0:28:47.640 your brother was, where I like tradition and I like 0:28:47.720 --> 0:28:50.960 people that are well skilled at their talent and that 0:28:51.160 --> 0:28:53.720 sort of thing. But you know, I also understand that 0:28:54.880 --> 0:28:57.600 I'm in a whole another generation now, and what I 0:28:57.720 --> 0:29:01.160 perceive is great might not be what someone born in 0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:04.360 two thousand things is great, So I mean, I get it, 0:29:05.200 --> 0:29:06.600 But like, what made you just. 0:29:06.600 --> 0:29:12.440 Stick to your guns to be open to things that 0:29:13.680 --> 0:29:16.280 we would otherwise think that I didn't have to stick 0:29:16.320 --> 0:29:18.840 to any guns. Went and stuck to his guns. I 0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:20.560 mean I always when I was okay, I'm telling you. 0:29:20.600 --> 0:29:22.840 I played with the creators, I played in youth orchestra, 0:29:23.040 --> 0:29:26.560 I played trad jazz, I played all of these things, 0:29:27.360 --> 0:29:27.920 and uh. 0:29:29.760 --> 0:29:31.160 You know, I mean I liked them and I was 0:29:31.200 --> 0:29:31.640 good at it. 0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:34.480 Went is one of the greatest trumpet players in the world. 0:29:35.320 --> 0:29:40.800 He played funk, but you know he didn't play it 0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:43.240 like you know, he didn't kill it. 0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:44.480 He just played it. 0:29:44.560 --> 0:29:46.560 And he was a great trumpet player. I mean John Roche, 0:29:46.640 --> 0:29:48.280 who was a more natural funk player, was like. 0:29:48.320 --> 0:29:51.480 Bro, I ain't even heard of fucking trumpet. Sound like that? 0:29:51.960 --> 0:29:54.040 What's wrong with him? But Went Lincoln play a. 0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:57.200 Kind of you couldn't even think of. Man just destined 0:29:57.280 --> 0:29:59.920 for other things, and you know it proved to be 0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:02.200 right for him. But for me, I mean I always 0:30:02.280 --> 0:30:04.840 had a knack I mean for playing funk. And I'm 0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:06.600 trying to find his picture. If you see my eyes 0:30:06.640 --> 0:30:08.120 a laundry, somebody. 0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:11.160 Sent me a picture of the band and wow, and 0:30:11.280 --> 0:30:13.080 Went's in it. And I'm trying to find his picture 0:30:13.120 --> 0:30:13.840 so I can send. 0:30:13.720 --> 0:30:14.000 It to you. 0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:15.800 Boy. 0:30:16.080 --> 0:30:19.960 Okay, what is your what's your preferred weapon of choice 0:30:20.360 --> 0:30:21.840 as far as your access concerned. 0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:24.120 And you know Bourbon. 0:30:28.840 --> 0:30:33.240 Well, okay, so I'm asking this only because I know 0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:38.640 that you're proficient on tenor and soprano, and like, no 0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:43.880 disrespect to you know, Sydney pochet Or or Shorter or 0:30:44.680 --> 0:30:48.000 Lacy or whatever. But I was just always on the 0:30:48.040 --> 0:30:54.280 impression that I mean, for like, as has Colturing sort 0:30:54.320 --> 0:30:59.360 of not not ruined the soprano, but has he made 0:30:59.400 --> 0:31:04.440 it a hard mountain to climb for people to pursue 0:31:04.480 --> 0:31:06.920 a career in soprano because you've stuck to soprano. 0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:08.720 No, not really. 0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:12.080 Coltrane wasn't really what I would call a good soprano player. 0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:16.600 What John did was he ran out a room on. 0:31:16.640 --> 0:31:18.360 The tennis, so he picked up the soprano because he 0:31:18.440 --> 0:31:22.080 wanted the notes to get higher. What made winn shortest 0:31:22.280 --> 0:31:26.120 soprano playing fascinating to me was that he didn't play 0:31:26.160 --> 0:31:28.200 the soprano the same way he played the tenor. 0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:32.520 The soprano wasn't a higher extension of his tenor playing. 0:31:32.560 --> 0:31:35.040 He treated it like it was a completely separate instrument. 0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:37.840 And that was the thing that I was more drawn to. 0:31:40.840 --> 0:31:43.320 One of the most incredible soprano players I've ever heard. 0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:47.280 John Coltrane is one of the most incredible tenor saxophone 0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:50.520 players I've ever heard, and he just transferred his tenor 0:31:50.600 --> 0:31:52.160 ship to the soprano because the. 0:31:52.200 --> 0:31:53.840 Tenor wasn't the right sound. 0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:58.400 But bishe, I can play you recordings of the set 0:31:59.120 --> 0:32:02.680 playing in a room in Paris in the thirties and 0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:05.160 you can hear the sound of the instrument. 0:32:05.160 --> 0:32:08.920 Double backing in the room. The sound was so I mean, 0:32:09.000 --> 0:32:10.600 I was like, that's the sound I want. 0:32:11.800 --> 0:32:14.560 So it was harder to find a sound on though 0:32:14.880 --> 0:32:17.600 I feel like the soprano. I grew up a player too, 0:32:17.800 --> 0:32:20.000 and I never got laid playing the clarinet also, and 0:32:20.120 --> 0:32:23.760 I switch like like I found the soprano that I could, 0:32:24.440 --> 0:32:27.120 I'm not you, but like I never found the It 0:32:27.200 --> 0:32:29.760 always it was easier to sound like someone else than 0:32:29.800 --> 0:32:31.640 it was to their own sound. Where I feel like 0:32:31.680 --> 0:32:34.160 the tenor, you're able to create your own sound. Maybe 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:35.600 that's totally well. 0:32:35.640 --> 0:32:38.280 The thing for me was that when this is how 0:32:38.360 --> 0:32:44.000 I got a soprano was Grogo was playing played the 0:32:44.040 --> 0:32:47.680 soprano right, and I said, damn, I want a soprano. 0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:49.640 So my grandfather said Ramball I'll get you one of 0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:54.240 them things. So it was a company called California Music Instruments, 0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:57.840 and you call them, send them whatever was six hundred 0:32:57.880 --> 0:33:00.800 dollars or whatever, and they would send you a soprano 0:33:00.920 --> 0:33:01.320 in the mill. 0:33:01.880 --> 0:33:03.840 So I got it, and I was excited, but I'm like, well, 0:33:03.880 --> 0:33:06.160 why the hell am I gonna play it? So I 0:33:06.320 --> 0:33:08.680 just kind of had it, and all I would do 0:33:08.880 --> 0:33:11.920 is pick it up, and what I would do is 0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:12.240 use it. 0:33:12.360 --> 0:33:14.560 I could make it sound like a clarinet, So I 0:33:14.600 --> 0:33:17.040 would just pull out clarinet music and play the soprano 0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:20.120 and make the tone sound like a clarinet. I think 0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:21.960 a lot of people that played a soprano the only 0:33:22.000 --> 0:33:25.040 person they ever listened to is Coltrane, which has that 0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:27.480 real bright, pinched kind of whining sound on the soprano. 0:33:27.560 --> 0:33:31.160 They don't even listen to these other guys. So for me, 0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:36.200 just the idea of creating that clarinet sound on a 0:33:36.280 --> 0:33:39.040 soprano immediately gave it more of a woody sound than 0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:42.800 a tiny sound. And then listening to Wayne Shorter, who 0:33:42.840 --> 0:33:45.640 also had a more round sound than a bright, piercing sound, 0:33:46.280 --> 0:33:49.040 that kind of set me in a place whereas the 0:33:49.160 --> 0:33:51.840 majority of my colleagues were going straight from the train thing, 0:33:52.080 --> 0:33:55.240 so their soprano sound was real thin, kind of bright. 0:33:55.640 --> 0:33:57.200 I had the exact opposite sound. 0:33:58.080 --> 0:34:00.000 What was your in your opinion? 0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:02.440 You know, where does Pharaoh Sanders fit into all of 0:34:02.520 --> 0:34:05.680 this because he's like one of my favorite I mean 0:34:05.800 --> 0:34:08.680 just I'm not a jazz musician or like a jazz 0:34:08.880 --> 0:34:11.880 like nerd like that, but I just love his I 0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:13.279 just I just love his sound. 0:34:13.560 --> 0:34:14.920 I was just talking to that guy about that that 0:34:15.000 --> 0:34:17.680 had never heard about his Boby is incredible, like the 0:34:17.760 --> 0:34:20.320 way he sounds on the instrument, but he is completely out. 0:34:20.200 --> 0:34:22.160 Of coltraning school. As a matter of fact, he was 0:34:22.200 --> 0:34:26.480 playing with Johnny when he got so his whole thing 0:34:26.600 --> 0:34:30.279 is is he comes out of cold traning school. But 0:34:30.360 --> 0:34:32.600 the sound he has on the instrument, the hef of 0:34:32.719 --> 0:34:35.080 his sound, it is an amazing thing to listen to. 0:34:35.160 --> 0:34:38.120 And it was something that was very inspiring. And uh 0:34:39.239 --> 0:34:43.320 remember when uh feeling philips Hymen saying on that on 0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:46.800 on that uh on Gene Karn's Husband's record. 0:34:46.840 --> 0:34:51.200 I think it was maybe as you are when Pharaoh 0:34:51.239 --> 0:34:54.239 played that solo and as you are, yeah I don't 0:34:54.239 --> 0:35:01.200 want me, Yeah yeah, yeah, just flipped it, you know, 0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:03.600 and that's my first time checking him out. 0:35:04.120 --> 0:35:04.840 Man, that's killed it. 0:35:04.920 --> 0:35:08.080 Man, you know, other than you know, what's the other thing? 0:35:08.719 --> 0:35:11.719 Goog created a massive plan. 0:35:12.800 --> 0:35:17.920 So fante, I'm realizing now because he dropped a hot 0:35:18.000 --> 0:35:24.439 take in saying that Wayne Wayne is slightly not more 0:35:24.480 --> 0:35:27.600 advanced in his soprano playing than Coltrank, that I realized 0:35:27.640 --> 0:35:32.800 that Branford might be the f m W j of 0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:38.520 of jazz opinions. Wait, I just want to drop this 0:35:38.640 --> 0:35:42.399 gem in there. I didn't say that, Okay, okay, because 0:35:42.560 --> 0:35:44.440 that's right. I've misquoted you before. 0:35:44.600 --> 0:35:48.880 So let'sten. Let's let's make a cuche. But anyway, Wayne 0:35:49.000 --> 0:35:52.040 comes out of couldr WA know I got that. I 0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:54.400 know that Wayne soprano. 0:35:54.120 --> 0:35:58.399 Sound is molded in a different it's much rounder sound, 0:35:58.480 --> 0:36:02.120 the sound that I prefer, the totally preferred trained sound, 0:36:02.239 --> 0:36:03.719 and that they're they're entitled to that. 0:36:03.880 --> 0:36:06.439 But for me, Wayne was always the guy I wanted 0:36:06.480 --> 0:36:07.120 to sound more like. 0:36:07.840 --> 0:36:09.920 And just what the listeners, we're talking about Wayne Shorter. 0:36:10.200 --> 0:36:13.720 Just to be clear, that's about Wayne Newton. 0:36:16.000 --> 0:36:21.960 Sometimes we got to break it down, my homeboy, don't 0:36:22.000 --> 0:36:23.840 even get me started anyway. 0:36:24.160 --> 0:36:26.560 So wait, there's all right. So there's there's a good 0:36:26.600 --> 0:36:27.360 friend of mine that. 0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:32.640 Is well respected in the jazz world who kind of 0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:36.439 broke my heart when he told me that that Carter 0:36:36.680 --> 0:36:37.360 wasn't even in. 0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:44.399 His top five bass player Ron Carter, you know, okay, okay, right? 0:36:44.520 --> 0:36:46.960 And the thing was no, no, no, And I had 0:36:47.000 --> 0:36:50.160 to investigate this and everyone was like, oh yeah, Miles 0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:53.080 never let Ron solo on any. 0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:55.840 Of his things because he wasn't a good soloist. And 0:36:56.600 --> 0:37:01.520 I didn't for the base. I didn't realize that that 0:37:01.800 --> 0:37:04.840 was a popular like what what other the bassis the 0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:07.520 anchor of the band and not to be sold. The 0:37:07.640 --> 0:37:08.560 purpose of the bass. 0:37:08.680 --> 0:37:10.719 You can solo if you want, but the purpose of 0:37:10.760 --> 0:37:13.880 the bass is to anchor the band in any style 0:37:13.920 --> 0:37:14.319 of music. 0:37:15.400 --> 0:37:15.960 You know what I mean? 0:37:16.040 --> 0:37:17.920 I mean, like you take a song like Hocky good Time, 0:37:17.960 --> 0:37:21.840 what is the bass player? People of Dubo people do 0:37:22.040 --> 0:37:24.840 be beople dubb for seven minutes? Can he solo? I 0:37:24.880 --> 0:37:26.040 don't know, do like give a fuck? 0:37:26.160 --> 0:37:29.920 Not really know what I tell you. 0:37:31.400 --> 0:37:36.000 I love it the bass player's job. It's like, you know, okay, 0:37:36.800 --> 0:37:40.080 it's really nice if you have a seven foot guy 0:37:40.120 --> 0:37:42.560 who can dribble a ball like a point guard. But 0:37:42.680 --> 0:37:44.480 we don't need you to play point We need you 0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:46.719 to dump there in the paint and get your ass 0:37:46.840 --> 0:37:50.279 beat and take their bits. I need bass players that 0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:53.640 can play the bass, and whoever your guy is, all 0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:55.720 that is is it's like you know, the bassis. 0:37:55.920 --> 0:37:59.439 You know, it's like just regular people hearing jazz MH. 0:38:00.040 --> 0:38:01.600 One of the reasons they hate just because they say 0:38:01.640 --> 0:38:03.920 it all sounds the same. And one reason it all 0:38:03.960 --> 0:38:06.480 sounds the same is because everybody's playing the same ship now. 0:38:07.280 --> 0:38:09.040 So the bass players are playing the same ship the 0:38:09.080 --> 0:38:12.239 saxophone players play. If you listen to a record from 0:38:12.239 --> 0:38:14.280 the forties, the one thing that's good is that saxophone 0:38:14.280 --> 0:38:16.680 players sound different than trumpet players, who sound different than 0:38:16.680 --> 0:38:18.799 bass players, who sound different than rummers. Now they all 0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:21.560 playing the same two five one legs. So of course 0:38:21.880 --> 0:38:25.600 to an untrained ear, it all sounds the same. Because 0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:27.719 I have a trained deer, and the ship all sounds 0:38:27.760 --> 0:38:30.719 the same. To me, I would rather hear a bass 0:38:30.800 --> 0:38:35.719 player sound like a bass rather than go and you 0:38:35.760 --> 0:38:38.160 know another music to be like WHOA, I'm like, man, play. 0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:42.360 The guitar, Dad, So can I ask what does that 0:38:42.600 --> 0:38:44.440 mean for? Uh? 0:38:46.200 --> 0:38:46.239 No? 0:38:46.640 --> 0:38:48.440 Not even I'm like, what does that mean for Ray 0:38:48.520 --> 0:38:52.960 Brown's or Mingus legacy or mingas. 0:38:53.239 --> 0:38:56.200 Mingas didn't do a lot when he did, and when 0:38:56.239 --> 0:38:58.200 he did solo, he sounded like a bass player when 0:38:58.239 --> 0:39:00.400 he's solo peer. 0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:03.120 Boo boo pop boop, doooo peroo boo boo boo. 0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:03.520 Boo boo boo. 0:39:05.200 --> 0:39:09.080 He didn't go boo, but he didn't do that ship. 0:39:09.480 --> 0:39:12.399 He played bass solos and then he would just swing 0:39:12.520 --> 0:39:13.040 you to death. 0:39:16.080 --> 0:39:18.439 That means, come on, man, that's bass because the whole 0:39:18.440 --> 0:39:21.000 thing is all right because because my bass player we 0:39:21.080 --> 0:39:23.320 got into this thing ten fifteen years ago. It was 0:39:23.400 --> 0:39:25.759 more of like fifty where he started like wanting to 0:39:25.840 --> 0:39:28.279 take these big modern bass solers. 0:39:28.320 --> 0:39:29.879 I'm like, man, can you please not do that ship 0:39:29.920 --> 0:39:33.880 because he hears a pastorious head or like was he 0:39:33.960 --> 0:39:34.680 a jack ohead? 0:39:34.800 --> 0:39:36.440 Or like no, no, no way. 0:39:36.480 --> 0:39:38.520 He plays acoustics, so it's hard to play, like you 0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:41.120 can't play that on acoustic bass. You just can't. 0:39:41.160 --> 0:39:44.799 All right, well mcbridy, you know, well, no, he's older 0:39:44.840 --> 0:39:45.160 than Chris. 0:39:45.320 --> 0:39:47.279 I mean, we all love Christian so but it was 0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:49.560 just more like he's he's you know, because there's a 0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:52.680 legacy of that you know, Ray Brown and Oscar Pediford, 0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:55.400 all of these guys, right, I would appreciate it. If 0:39:55.400 --> 0:39:58.520 you wouldn't do it, You're like, man, you know, I 0:39:58.600 --> 0:40:02.480 got to express myself. I said, all right, tonight, when 0:40:02.520 --> 0:40:04.800 we play this song, rhythm changes, I'm like, go ahead, 0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:07.640 play whatever you want. And then the second night, I said, 0:40:08.200 --> 0:40:10.719 I want you to just walk a base baseline, walk 0:40:10.760 --> 0:40:13.560 a bass solo. So he's walking the bass solo, and 0:40:13.640 --> 0:40:17.399 if he's doing it, you hear the audience. Yeah. By 0:40:17.440 --> 0:40:21.120 the fourth course, they are ploding and screaming, and I said, 0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:23.880 he says, I don't even understand that. I said, you 0:40:24.000 --> 0:40:26.160 gotta think like people who don't know nothing about music. 0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:29.440 You're the only instrument that can do that. Like if 0:40:29.480 --> 0:40:35.280 I started solo and I started going, it sounds ridiculous 0:40:35.320 --> 0:40:37.920 for me to do that. It's not the function of 0:40:37.920 --> 0:40:40.279 the saxophone. But if you walk in the bass and 0:40:40.560 --> 0:40:45.160 walking with intensity, it's gonna d D the only only 0:40:45.200 --> 0:40:47.000 instrument on the stage that can do that. So when 0:40:47.040 --> 0:40:49.120 you do that, the audience has never heard anything like that. 0:40:49.760 --> 0:40:51.839 So an audience is sitting there trying to like the music, 0:40:51.920 --> 0:40:53.919 and they hear a piano player and a sax player 0:40:53.960 --> 0:40:55.600 and a trumpet player and not a damn BSS player's 0:40:55.600 --> 0:40:58.000 gonna sound just like them. There's no change in color, 0:40:58.360 --> 0:41:00.799 there's no change in anything. It's all these scene licks 0:41:00.840 --> 0:41:05.000 regurgitated over and over and over again. At song. Everybody's 0:41:05.040 --> 0:41:08.720 ready to leave. There's no changes in color, no changes 0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:10.399 in dynamics. All right. 0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:13.160 So I'm trying to now parallel this to my world. 0:41:13.480 --> 0:41:17.759 So maybe what I figure saying is the way that 0:41:17.840 --> 0:41:20.400 I sort of feel about gospel chop. 0:41:22.040 --> 0:41:22.440 Started. 0:41:23.000 --> 0:41:24.239 Man, that's just got nothing to do with it. 0:41:24.360 --> 0:41:27.239 Go in, go in, go in nothing. 0:41:28.440 --> 0:41:31.839 I get it now. So it's just like I'm more 0:41:31.840 --> 0:41:34.120 impressed with the pocket than I am with how. 0:41:34.040 --> 0:41:36.719 Many you know, except the musicians. I mean, this is 0:41:36.760 --> 0:41:39.280 what jazz has become. It's like a bunch of musicians 0:41:39.360 --> 0:41:42.520 playing for other musicians. And in a lot of ways 0:41:42.560 --> 0:41:44.640 in some of the classical music communities, that's what it is. 0:41:45.320 --> 0:41:48.560 Really adventurous, highly technical, high and skilled musicians playing for 0:41:48.640 --> 0:41:52.040 other musicians. And you know, gospel chops dot com is 0:41:52.239 --> 0:41:55.719 musicians playing for musicians. I mean, if I was able 0:41:55.800 --> 0:41:58.560 to get a band and they had some band full 0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:03.160 of young gospel cats and they all playing and I 0:42:03.280 --> 0:42:09.400 just started going, I'd win every time. Every time I win, 0:42:09.480 --> 0:42:11.799 the audience will start clapping, they start screaming, they start 0:42:11.840 --> 0:42:15.399 feeling the spirit I win. And that's what I'm talking 0:42:15.440 --> 0:42:17.600 about when I talked about the bass earlier, because that 0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:20.719 music has a function depending on the style of it 0:42:20.880 --> 0:42:23.560 is and the context it is, it is a function. 0:42:23.719 --> 0:42:27.880 And what modern musicians want to do is remove the 0:42:28.040 --> 0:42:32.239 function from their instrument because suddenly being a great instrumentalist 0:42:32.360 --> 0:42:33.960 is more important than being a great musician. 0:42:34.239 --> 0:42:36.440 I was gonna ask for you, braver, how do you 0:42:36.640 --> 0:42:40.560 determine as a musician kind of when to walk the 0:42:40.640 --> 0:42:43.120 line between just kind of you know, being you know, 0:42:43.200 --> 0:42:46.920 a musician and then kind of being more you know, 0:42:47.120 --> 0:42:49.400 a virtual So like when is it when is it 0:42:49.520 --> 0:42:50.279 time to show off? 0:42:50.640 --> 0:42:51.880 Or is there ever a time to show off? 0:42:51.920 --> 0:42:54.960 And the song requires no other time? Gotcha? If I'm 0:42:54.960 --> 0:42:57.760 planned with the Grateful Dead, that shit is never required. 0:43:00.200 --> 0:43:00.239 It. 0:43:01.160 --> 0:43:02.120 But who's that for? 0:43:02.960 --> 0:43:07.120 Right? That's just like a certain kind of self aggrandizement 0:43:07.200 --> 0:43:09.360 where you go in and you play all of this 0:43:09.719 --> 0:43:12.400 hardcore shit and they ain't but literally two people in 0:43:12.960 --> 0:43:14.799 a room full of eighteen thousand people that would even 0:43:14.840 --> 0:43:18.640 know what it is. You suddenly become so disconnected from 0:43:18.680 --> 0:43:20.640 what it is you're supposed to be doing. Like you 0:43:20.760 --> 0:43:22.640 playing a horn section, What does that mean? That means 0:43:22.640 --> 0:43:25.520 you in the background. That's what it means. You're gonna 0:43:25.560 --> 0:43:27.479 have your horn parts, You're gonna be dancing, You're gonna 0:43:27.480 --> 0:43:29.880 be doing all your things. I mean, you know, you 0:43:29.960 --> 0:43:31.600 go to Earth Wind and Fire concert. They had a 0:43:31.640 --> 0:43:34.280 great horn section. You know, Don Mack was playing alto 0:43:34.520 --> 0:43:37.440 killing didn't nobody in the audience know the name of 0:43:37.480 --> 0:43:38.800 the horn section. Didn't even notice it. 0:43:39.480 --> 0:43:41.799 You know, everybody knew who Verdeine was, everybody knew who 0:43:41.840 --> 0:43:42.400 Maurice was. 0:43:43.160 --> 0:43:43.839 You know what I mean. 0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:46.600 Everybody knew Philip Bailey was. They didn't know what the 0:43:46.640 --> 0:43:47.799 horn section was. But that's the thing. 0:43:47.880 --> 0:43:50.200 We always function in the background. So I come from 0:43:50.280 --> 0:43:53.120 that and then I start playing jazz. I'm still cool 0:43:53.160 --> 0:43:55.440 with being in the background. I don't need to be 0:43:56.280 --> 0:43:58.160 the center of the attention, even though the nature of 0:43:58.200 --> 0:44:00.440 what it is, I wind up being the center of attention. 0:44:01.200 --> 0:44:03.480 But when I would play, people would say, why do 0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:06.640 you always walk to the back of the stage when 0:44:06.680 --> 0:44:09.120 you ain't soloing? I said, because if I stand there 0:44:09.160 --> 0:44:11.200 people are gonna look at me, and I want them 0:44:11.239 --> 0:44:13.680 to look at whoever else is solo. So if I 0:44:13.760 --> 0:44:15.400 walk to the back of the stage behind the piano 0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:17.840 and I've become a shadow, They're gonna look around and deduce. 0:44:17.920 --> 0:44:20.080 Oh the piano players plan let me check him out. 0:44:20.360 --> 0:44:22.800 I'm not just gonna stand there in preen imposture because 0:44:22.840 --> 0:44:24.920 I'm not that insecure. I don't need the attention to 0:44:24.960 --> 0:44:27.239 be on me. You know, I remember Sting was doing 0:44:27.320 --> 0:44:31.040 this this. You know, he did these Rainforest Foundation concerts. 0:44:31.080 --> 0:44:33.560 He do these Rainforest Foundation concerts for twenty years. He 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:35.560 did them at Carnegie Hall once a year, and they 0:44:35.600 --> 0:44:37.640 would always have run team. And he called me. 0:44:37.680 --> 0:44:39.560 He says, I need some help. I need a horn section. 0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:41.839 We're gonna do Stack to Night. And I said, all right, 0:44:41.840 --> 0:44:42.520 I'll get back to you. 0:44:42.719 --> 0:44:45.160 So I said, uh. I called Lou solo Off, who 0:44:45.239 --> 0:44:47.239 was the trumpet player with Blood Sweating Tears and played 0:44:47.280 --> 0:44:49.239 in the Saturday Night Live band. 0:44:49.440 --> 0:44:50.960 I said, look, let's do this gig. 0:44:51.360 --> 0:44:54.560 Called this trombone player from Berkeley, Tim Williams, and I said, 0:44:54.560 --> 0:44:56.600 I got It's a three piece horn section. Lou sol Off, 0:44:56.680 --> 0:44:58.960 Tim Williams and me and this think says, now, wait 0:44:58.960 --> 0:45:00.279 a minute, Mane. You know we don't have diden need 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:02.400 these step off performances, and said, man, I grew up 0:45:02.440 --> 0:45:05.080 in a horn section. I don't need a step up performance. 0:45:05.120 --> 0:45:06.880 I just want to be in the horn section. I 0:45:07.000 --> 0:45:10.520 have never played these tunics. I love these tuness. Just 0:45:10.640 --> 0:45:12.000 leave me alone, let me do my thing. 0:45:13.960 --> 0:45:15.239 You know I'm not. 0:45:15.440 --> 0:45:17.440 We're playing these horn parts and we just having a 0:45:17.560 --> 0:45:19.360 good ass time. And then there were a couple of 0:45:19.440 --> 0:45:22.040 sax solos. It's like them eight ball little things like 0:45:22.280 --> 0:45:23.239 I'll put a spell on you. 0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:26.919 Oh wow, screaming hawkins I put. 0:45:31.480 --> 0:45:31.719 From me. 0:45:31.800 --> 0:45:33.800 I used that once in the beat. That was great anyway, 0:45:35.920 --> 0:45:36.960 I know y'all know so. 0:45:38.040 --> 0:45:39.719 And then it came for the solo and I'm playing 0:45:39.760 --> 0:45:43.920 the solo and Steve Cropper turns around says, God. 0:45:43.840 --> 0:45:44.480 Damn somewhere. 0:45:44.520 --> 0:45:45.600 You're from New Orleans. 0:45:45.640 --> 0:45:48.000 He goes, yeah, figures. Then we got back to play. 0:45:50.040 --> 0:45:50.239 With me. 0:45:50.960 --> 0:45:53.400 Wait, that's the first time you met Steve Cropper the 0:45:53.440 --> 0:45:56.400 first time you met me? Ah yeah, I was about 0:45:56.400 --> 0:45:57.880 to say you were bringing from Marcellas. 0:45:58.960 --> 0:46:01.879 I don't mean to ship down. He's just older boy 0:46:01.960 --> 0:46:05.040 from Alabama playing some funky ass tunes. He was like 0:46:05.120 --> 0:46:06.600 when he turnd me playing he turned away. It was 0:46:07.040 --> 0:46:08.879 more of a compliment that he's like, damn, man, that's 0:46:08.920 --> 0:46:09.239 how good. 0:46:09.280 --> 0:46:11.080 Where are you from? You know? 0:46:11.280 --> 0:46:13.759 Vietnam was the fact that he didn't know made it 0:46:13.840 --> 0:46:15.239 hipper and. 0:46:15.320 --> 0:46:16.400 That was our games. 0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:17.000 That was it. 0:46:22.400 --> 0:46:22.560 You know. 0:46:23.040 --> 0:46:27.000 I never got a chance to really chop it up 0:46:27.040 --> 0:46:31.759 with someone who was of age at the time when 0:46:31.880 --> 0:46:35.719 jazz was really going through its eighties transition, you know, 0:46:35.840 --> 0:46:40.600 with Miles sort of going on his terrain, trying to 0:46:41.040 --> 0:46:44.600 refine or redefine himself, and just at the time you 0:46:44.680 --> 0:46:47.440 were twenty, I assume by the age of twenty you 0:46:47.520 --> 0:46:51.480 were serious about your craft and you were at least 0:46:51.680 --> 0:46:56.520 in the young Lions category by this point, Like, at 0:46:56.520 --> 0:47:01.640 what point are you no good? All right, come on, Brant, 0:47:01.640 --> 0:47:02.320 will you work with me? 0:47:02.560 --> 0:47:07.840 At What age were you? When when you arrived? What 0:47:08.080 --> 0:47:13.320 age were you? Because I'm asking this because for myself. 0:47:13.760 --> 0:47:16.120 Yes, when did you feel that? When was your arrival? 0:47:16.200 --> 0:47:18.880 When when your father was like, yeah, my son's killing it. 0:47:19.239 --> 0:47:21.640 As far as that, my father never said that, but 0:47:21.840 --> 0:47:25.840 uh okay, I did. Just so the whole point was 0:47:25.920 --> 0:47:31.000 that with two thousands with cats, with cats, like, well, 0:47:31.040 --> 0:47:35.440 I'm just saying with cats like Crouch and George Butler, 0:47:35.640 --> 0:47:38.160 Sony and all that, with them sort of as the 0:47:38.280 --> 0:47:41.160 old jazz guard. And you know, I've talked to like 0:47:41.480 --> 0:47:44.799 David Murray and all those cats like an mbase trying 0:47:44.800 --> 0:47:48.040 to do their thing, Like what what was the environment? 0:47:48.239 --> 0:47:51.319 Was it a civil war environment of people wrestling trying to. 0:47:51.320 --> 0:47:53.640 Figure out I guess it may have been a civil 0:47:53.640 --> 0:47:56.080 war for those who gave a fuck, but uh I 0:47:56.239 --> 0:47:57.120 wasn't one of them, so. 0:47:58.400 --> 0:47:59.680 I don't know civil war for me. 0:48:00.320 --> 0:48:01.680 No, I love it. 0:48:01.880 --> 0:48:02.400 I love it. 0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:07.920 Well, that's my question, Like what was it in that environment? 0:48:08.040 --> 0:48:11.560 Like you just didn't care about jazz critics and jazz 0:48:11.600 --> 0:48:14.160 critics please, it was a simple environment. 0:48:14.200 --> 0:48:17.200 There's a simple question for me. Right, that's the young 0:48:17.280 --> 0:48:18.600 man in nineteen fifty seven. 0:48:19.040 --> 0:48:20.520 You got all these dudes that can play all these 0:48:20.560 --> 0:48:24.200 sixteenth notes, they can't play a fucking eighth notes solo. 0:48:24.440 --> 0:48:26.520 You can't play a lesser young solo with the right 0:48:26.600 --> 0:48:27.640 tone in the right style. 0:48:28.080 --> 0:48:28.960 And that included me. 0:48:29.800 --> 0:48:33.040 So my thinking is is that if we're moving jazz forward, 0:48:33.200 --> 0:48:36.760 how come we can't play none of this other shit? Because, 0:48:36.800 --> 0:48:40.040 like I have a friend who's a physicist, right, Physicists 0:48:40.040 --> 0:48:44.400 are really good at math. If my friend Barry Abart 0:48:45.040 --> 0:48:48.439 flew in here from the Jet Proportion laboratory where he works, 0:48:48.480 --> 0:48:51.440 and I said, hey, man, my daughter is a sophomore 0:48:52.040 --> 0:48:52.760 and high school. 0:48:52.800 --> 0:48:53.839 Can you help her with this math? 0:48:53.880 --> 0:48:56.160 He wouldn't say, well, you know that's cool, man, but 0:48:56.280 --> 0:48:58.440 you know we're working on this new thing here, and 0:48:58.560 --> 0:49:00.359 I think it's way more advanced that was who back 0:49:00.360 --> 0:49:02.480 in this day. He would say, yeah, no problem, I'm 0:49:02.520 --> 0:49:05.920 a physicist. Now you think about modern music, that old shit, Yeah, 0:49:05.920 --> 0:49:07.600 that shit was cool, but you know that's that we've 0:49:07.640 --> 0:49:08.320 gone beyond that. 0:49:08.760 --> 0:49:11.560 I say, is that French for you can't fucking do it? Paralleough, 0:49:11.640 --> 0:49:13.360 that's friend for you can't play it cool? Well, you 0:49:13.440 --> 0:49:15.839 know what. I can't either, But I'm gonna learn how. Man, 0:49:15.880 --> 0:49:18.480 when you listen to that old shit, fuck, do your think? 0:49:18.960 --> 0:49:22.840 Do your think y'all? You know the critics say, what 0:49:22.960 --> 0:49:24.800 do the critics play? M h. 0:49:26.120 --> 0:49:27.960 It's like a friend of mine listens to these sports 0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:30.920 you know, saxophone player friend named Paul Carry listens to 0:49:30.960 --> 0:49:33.560 these sports radio shows which. 0:49:33.440 --> 0:49:34.520 I'll listen to sometimes. 0:49:35.120 --> 0:49:38.400 A guy who's five foot six, who has strong opinions 0:49:38.480 --> 0:49:41.000 about people who play a game that he was never 0:49:41.040 --> 0:49:43.920 good enough to play. How much freedoms can I take 0:49:43.960 --> 0:49:44.720 in that? Seriously? 0:49:45.400 --> 0:49:45.720 Facts? 0:49:46.280 --> 0:49:48.120 You know, when when Jim Rohme. 0:49:48.000 --> 0:49:50.080 Decided to call Jim Everett, who was a football player, 0:49:50.200 --> 0:49:53.439 Chris Everett because he plays like a girl, Jim made 0:49:53.520 --> 0:49:55.440 him famous by beating his ass. 0:49:55.239 --> 0:49:58.960 On the studio. What Jim should have done? It said, 0:49:59.440 --> 0:50:00.839 you know what, you got a point. 0:50:01.400 --> 0:50:03.759 That's why I'm gonna set it up so that you 0:50:03.840 --> 0:50:05.440 can come to training camp and I'm gonna get you 0:50:05.480 --> 0:50:08.319 a uniform. We're gonna film you, and you're gonna show 0:50:08.360 --> 0:50:08.960 us how to do it. 0:50:09.440 --> 0:50:11.920 And I imagine if he had said that. Magine if I. 0:50:11.960 --> 0:50:15.000 Mean, this guy from San Francisco is ripping Sting saying 0:50:15.040 --> 0:50:17.719 Sting ain't shit, band sucks blah blah blah. Sting writes 0:50:17.800 --> 0:50:19.680 him a letter in the newspaper. Yeah, this is a 0:50:19.719 --> 0:50:21.680 lot harder than you think. That's why when we come 0:50:21.760 --> 0:50:24.160 back in six months, I'm gonna reserve ten minutes for 0:50:24.239 --> 0:50:26.120 you and you can come on stage and you can 0:50:26.160 --> 0:50:26.879 do whatever you want. 0:50:26.920 --> 0:50:28.759 You can read poetry, it don't matter. You ain't got 0:50:28.800 --> 0:50:37.240 to sing a song. Yeah, the ten minutes are yours. 0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:41.440 And he received the universal condemnation from all these critics 0:50:41.960 --> 0:50:45.080 because they know, because they know, and they're like, you're 0:50:45.120 --> 0:50:47.560 the one who's rich in famous, take your lumps, and 0:50:47.640 --> 0:50:50.200 he's like, no, I ain't about taking lumps. You are 0:50:50.280 --> 0:50:53.000 trying to make yourself an authority on some shit you 0:50:53.120 --> 0:50:55.279 don't know how to do, so come on up here 0:50:55.400 --> 0:50:56.320 and show me how to do it. 0:50:57.080 --> 0:50:59.320 And that's our feel and it ain't like im because. 0:50:59.040 --> 0:51:01.200 Like people say, you know and critics are really killing 0:51:01.320 --> 0:51:04.680 I'm like, so most of my real critics are like 0:51:04.719 --> 0:51:06.320 these dead dudes, and I'm trying to learn how to 0:51:06.360 --> 0:51:08.560 play like I got good enough years. 0:51:08.640 --> 0:51:10.400 I know if I can play this ship well or 0:51:10.400 --> 0:51:13.000 if I can't play it well. And if I can't 0:51:13.040 --> 0:51:14.680 play it well, I have to figure out how to 0:51:14.760 --> 0:51:18.520 learn how to play it well. And about me, they're 0:51:18.560 --> 0:51:20.080 not going they're not gonna help me learn how to 0:51:20.160 --> 0:51:20.360 do that. 0:51:21.200 --> 0:51:23.960 It was an example of something that if it's an 0:51:24.000 --> 0:51:26.560 older style or older music, something that you had to 0:51:26.640 --> 0:51:27.640 learn how to play well. 0:51:28.160 --> 0:51:29.800 Dude. There's so many of those, but I think the 0:51:29.920 --> 0:51:33.279 easiest one is playing balance. Most modern players don't know 0:51:33.280 --> 0:51:34.960 how to play. But I tell you, what do you 0:51:35.840 --> 0:51:38.680 I told y'all, So they you know, because they listen 0:51:38.760 --> 0:51:41.440 to train, you know, because train would play the melody 0:51:41.440 --> 0:51:42.839 and then you go into a two field and start 0:51:42.840 --> 0:51:43.480 playing all this shit. 0:51:43.520 --> 0:51:45.400 So in there like I want to do that. But 0:51:45.520 --> 0:51:46.480 the thing is is that if you. 0:51:46.600 --> 0:51:50.600 Listen to train chronologically, he could also play a ballot 0:51:50.719 --> 0:51:53.200 very simply and very beautifully. So what they do is 0:51:54.000 --> 0:51:56.760 they listen to train at the end of his process, 0:51:56.920 --> 0:51:59.200 and that's where they start their process. And I was 0:51:59.320 --> 0:52:03.680 the same different gotcha? So part Blakey was like, man, 0:52:03.760 --> 0:52:05.640 you can't play a ballad where the ship you know, 0:52:05.800 --> 0:52:06.520 You're horrible. 0:52:07.360 --> 0:52:11.080 I'm like, great, okay, you know true, but that's all 0:52:11.120 --> 0:52:12.879 you got. Is there a solution in there? Any reason? 0:52:12.960 --> 0:52:16.360 Yeah? Go check out Ben Webster, all right. I listened 0:52:16.360 --> 0:52:19.239 to it a little bit. My brother Delphia, we would 0:52:19.280 --> 0:52:20.920 we would always talk about music. I said, man, I 0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:22.320 got to get some more Ben Wester. So I was 0:52:22.360 --> 0:52:24.479 getting ready to go on stings first two in eighty five. 0:52:25.920 --> 0:52:27.680 My brother says, I got a package coming for you, 0:52:28.200 --> 0:52:30.839 and it was two cassettes. Back in the good old 0:52:30.920 --> 0:52:36.000 days we got cassettes, right, and a package. Yeah, two 0:52:36.080 --> 0:52:39.400 cassettes because the Walkman was that they didn't have Discman yet. 0:52:39.480 --> 0:52:42.520 They weren't out yet play c D yet, they weren't 0:52:42.560 --> 0:52:42.960 there yet. 0:52:44.360 --> 0:52:46.000 It was two Ben. 0:52:45.920 --> 0:52:48.600 Webster records, one with the Oscar pedis and trio and 0:52:48.680 --> 0:52:49.040 the other. 0:52:49.000 --> 0:52:49.840 One with strings. 0:52:50.680 --> 0:52:54.279 I listened to these ships every day for a year 0:52:54.320 --> 0:52:54.719 and a half. 0:52:55.320 --> 0:52:58.080 Now I was playing with things. I was rocking out, but. 0:52:58.400 --> 0:53:01.960 Every day at least once, sometimes I'm playing twice a day. 0:53:02.360 --> 0:53:05.520 I would listen to both of these cassettes, and a 0:53:05.600 --> 0:53:07.640 year and a half later, I could play like Ben 0:53:08.680 --> 0:53:11.160 without even trying to play. It just came out the morn. 0:53:11.239 --> 0:53:13.000 I'm like, damn, that works, okay, great. 0:53:15.000 --> 0:53:16.040 And that was just the beginning. 0:53:16.680 --> 0:53:19.200 But in the break in the middle of it. 0:53:19.719 --> 0:53:21.560 We were off for six weeks and I went to 0:53:21.640 --> 0:53:24.239 the Vanguard and I was playing with some people and 0:53:24.400 --> 0:53:28.040 this old tenor man, Buddy Take, he played with Basie's 0:53:28.080 --> 0:53:28.960 band in the thirties. 0:53:30.480 --> 0:53:32.239 I said, Tate, you know you got. 0:53:32.280 --> 0:53:33.839 An advice from me. He says, Son, you're the worst 0:53:33.920 --> 0:53:37.000 ballet player I ever heard in my life. And I said, 0:53:37.040 --> 0:53:39.319 I know, I know, I'm working on it. He says, really, 0:53:39.320 --> 0:53:40.680 you're working out of what you're doing. I said, I'm 0:53:40.719 --> 0:53:43.359 listening to these two ben Websters see things. He goes, 0:53:44.440 --> 0:53:46.200 that's gonna take care of it. You just keep listening 0:53:46.280 --> 0:53:47.880 to them. I said, but I've been listening for a 0:53:48.000 --> 0:53:49.640 year and it sounds like shit. He says, son the 0:53:49.719 --> 0:53:51.840 only way to get better is to keep sounding like 0:53:51.880 --> 0:53:53.680 shit till it don't sound like shit no more. 0:53:55.560 --> 0:53:56.719 There ain't no shortcuts. 0:53:56.760 --> 0:53:58.080 And I said, okay, cool. 0:53:58.560 --> 0:54:02.080 And then when I came back there it was, you know, and. 0:54:02.120 --> 0:54:04.680 Then I would start playing all these old songs and 0:54:04.800 --> 0:54:06.399 guys say, man, why are you playing that old ship? 0:54:06.480 --> 0:54:09.400 And I'm like, why is a dog lickors balls? Because 0:54:09.480 --> 0:54:09.919 he can't? 0:54:14.600 --> 0:54:16.920 You know. It's just like why did I do it? 0:54:17.440 --> 0:54:19.759 Because I learned how to do it? Why can't you 0:54:19.960 --> 0:54:22.200 do it? I don't want to do that, Sure you 0:54:22.360 --> 0:54:25.760 don't like And it was just like sing. 0:54:25.640 --> 0:54:28.840 After thing I tried to learn, you know, I practiced 0:54:28.920 --> 0:54:32.040 Sonny Rollins, trying to play like Sonny for two years nothing, 0:54:32.680 --> 0:54:34.960 and then like eight months later, the sunny stuff starts 0:54:34.960 --> 0:54:35.359 coming out. 0:54:35.440 --> 0:54:38.080 And then after Sonny, you just learned how to play like. 0:54:38.120 --> 0:54:39.400 I was gonna ask you. I was gonna ask you 0:54:39.400 --> 0:54:42.919 about ornate Coleen. He was someone that I never could 0:54:43.480 --> 0:54:45.440 get into. It was just so it seems so far 0:54:45.520 --> 0:54:47.440 out from me, like what was his thing? 0:54:47.680 --> 0:54:50.480 That's the only that's the only time Stanley Crouch and 0:54:50.520 --> 0:54:52.360 I ever had a conversation with. At the end of it, 0:54:52.440 --> 0:54:55.640 I'm like, thanks, man, because you need to check out. 0:54:57.800 --> 0:54:58.000 I know. 0:54:58.120 --> 0:54:59.880 Stanley was one for always wanting to fight out. 0:55:00.080 --> 0:55:00.200 You know. 0:55:02.320 --> 0:55:04.080 He gave me this record, The Shape of Chats to Come, 0:55:04.160 --> 0:55:05.920 and I listened to it for a week. I said, yeah, 0:55:05.960 --> 0:55:06.719 this just sucks, man. 0:55:06.760 --> 0:55:08.320 He goes, yeah, you need to keep listening. 0:55:10.239 --> 0:55:11.880 You didn't like to save the Jackson Come when it 0:55:11.880 --> 0:55:14.080 first came out, But I know when it first came out, 0:55:14.080 --> 0:55:16.080 when you first heard three years old. 0:55:16.440 --> 0:55:19.400 When I first heard it, it was like, this sucks. 0:55:20.120 --> 0:55:23.839 Two weeks in, three weeks in, I'm like, okay that man. 0:55:24.440 --> 0:55:27.759 It took four months of listening to this record every day, 0:55:28.320 --> 0:55:31.360 and then in the fourth month suddenly I heard what 0:55:31.520 --> 0:55:34.320 it actually was and I'm like, holy shit, it's not 0:55:34.440 --> 0:55:34.920 even out. 0:55:35.120 --> 0:55:38.279 It's all in. It's all based on standard song for him. 0:55:38.640 --> 0:55:40.520 And I came back and started telling Cat y'all said, going, 0:55:40.600 --> 0:55:42.720 that's out. This shit's in. It's sands the man, You're crazy. 0:55:42.800 --> 0:55:46.440 That's not standing song for him, standing song for standard 0:55:46.480 --> 0:55:48.960 song for you just have to listen to it enough 0:55:49.000 --> 0:55:49.640 to figure it out. 0:55:50.280 --> 0:55:53.560 Him and the other cat rossn Roll and Kurt out there, 0:55:54.360 --> 0:55:56.040 it was the same kind of thing I was trying. 0:55:56.080 --> 0:55:57.960 I'm just like, all right, maybe I just don't I'm 0:55:58.000 --> 0:55:59.120 not advanced enough to get it. 0:56:00.160 --> 0:56:02.280 There's a there's a documentary on Rassiana that you should 0:56:02.320 --> 0:56:05.040 check out. I can't remember the name of it, The 0:56:05.080 --> 0:56:07.400 Three Sided Dream, Thank You Face, The. 0:56:07.400 --> 0:56:08.239 Three Sided Dream. 0:56:08.680 --> 0:56:12.200 And he did an eight minute performance on The Ed 0:56:12.320 --> 0:56:14.440 Sullivan Show at a time when jazz was not on 0:56:14.640 --> 0:56:17.400 Ed Sullivan at all, And that is some of the 0:56:17.440 --> 0:56:21.080 most electric shit you will see. Like some of the documentary, 0:56:21.120 --> 0:56:23.799 it slows down, it's kind of boring. And but then 0:56:24.400 --> 0:56:28.760 this makes like if you you check out on Rassiana 0:56:28.800 --> 0:56:29.720 and that you're. 0:56:29.600 --> 0:56:33.120 Good, you know, then I promise you I got it, 0:56:33.280 --> 0:56:33.960 I got it down. 0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:36.040 You'd be like, oh, I get it. 0:56:36.840 --> 0:56:37.040 Was there? 0:56:37.280 --> 0:56:40.760 Was your tenure? Was your tenure with Blakeie your first time. 0:56:42.560 --> 0:56:46.719 In a professional like established jazz unit, And was that 0:56:46.880 --> 0:56:48.439 also in the studio or just on the road? 0:56:48.960 --> 0:56:50.920 Well we did. It was all it was mostly on 0:56:51.000 --> 0:56:51.319 the road. 0:56:51.440 --> 0:56:54.759 Yes, it was my first established I did some things 0:56:54.800 --> 0:56:57.120 in New Orleans would established musicians and my dad and 0:56:57.320 --> 0:57:00.480 we had this regular gig these uh, these older New 0:57:00.560 --> 0:57:02.600 Orleans cats, I mean older, like ten years older than me. 0:57:03.080 --> 0:57:07.120 John Badakovich was on drums, David Torkanowski was the pianist. 0:57:07.160 --> 0:57:09.880 His dad was the conductor of Louisiana Philharmonic, the New 0:57:09.960 --> 0:57:16.360 Orleans and uh and uh Jim Singleton on base. And 0:57:16.520 --> 0:57:18.000 they called me and went and said, hey man, we 0:57:18.080 --> 0:57:20.240 got these gigs at Tyler's Beer Guard march y'all come 0:57:20.280 --> 0:57:22.280 play with us. So we had this one gig a 0:57:22.360 --> 0:57:24.520 week where we would come in and play tunes with 0:57:24.600 --> 0:57:26.920 these cats, and you know, went was firing and I 0:57:27.080 --> 0:57:29.320 was just playing a pentatonic scale on everything because that 0:57:32.120 --> 0:57:32.280 you know. 0:57:32.400 --> 0:57:33.000 But it was great. 0:57:33.040 --> 0:57:34.880 We had a great time. I mean everybody looked out 0:57:34.920 --> 0:57:37.400 for us. I mean we had really cool experiences, you know, 0:57:37.560 --> 0:57:40.680 playing in bars when we were not legal age, and 0:57:41.520 --> 0:57:42.080 it was great. 0:57:42.440 --> 0:57:44.960 Did you ever do anything anytime the New Orleans ever 0:57:45.000 --> 0:57:46.400 do anything with Alan Tucson? 0:57:47.200 --> 0:57:50.880 No, No, no he didn't. They didn't. You know, they 0:57:50.960 --> 0:57:52.480 got to call me. It's not like I'm gonna yo 0:57:52.760 --> 0:57:53.400 you always be me. 0:57:53.520 --> 0:57:54.800 Well, well that's what I was thinking that did he 0:57:54.840 --> 0:57:55.280 ever call you? 0:57:55.440 --> 0:57:57.360 That's what I meant because by the time I left 0:57:57.400 --> 0:57:58.520 me on a seventy. 0:57:58.320 --> 0:57:59.880 Nine, Oh okay, gotcha. 0:58:00.000 --> 0:58:01.960 And then when the whole when it all started happening, 0:58:02.040 --> 0:58:03.959 I was in New York. He didn't. They were plenty 0:58:03.960 --> 0:58:09.000 of sax players he could use at home, but I 0:58:09.080 --> 0:58:11.160 mean here, yes, Art Blake. 0:58:11.200 --> 0:58:13.920 It was my first professional organization and it was mostly 0:58:14.000 --> 0:58:15.840 on the road. Even the record we did wasn't a 0:58:15.880 --> 0:58:18.240 studio record. It was a live record at the Keystone 0:58:18.280 --> 0:58:19.320 Corner in San Francisco. 0:58:19.840 --> 0:58:23.640 Okay, what was your brother's debut album, your first time 0:58:24.520 --> 0:58:27.760 in a studio setting as far as jazz was concerned, 0:58:27.880 --> 0:58:28.680 or yes. 0:58:28.720 --> 0:58:30.000 As far as jazz was concerned. 0:58:30.080 --> 0:58:33.760 Yeah, no, that's not true, because we had done this 0:58:33.880 --> 0:58:37.480 record called Fathers and Sons with me and Winton and 0:58:37.600 --> 0:58:41.560 Dead and uh Chico Freeman and Von Freeman on one 0:58:41.640 --> 0:58:43.680 side and Mean and went and Dead with some new 0:58:43.920 --> 0:58:48.680 with James Black and uh Charles Family Yo Homie on base. 0:58:49.240 --> 0:58:51.520 That was the first thing, Like with Winton's record, Yeah, 0:58:51.600 --> 0:58:55.720 that was the first. Yeah, the second one, you know, 0:58:55.920 --> 0:58:57.720 in the first time in the studio I was a kid. 0:58:58.200 --> 0:59:00.720 There was a guy named a Guy. He did a 0:59:00.840 --> 0:59:04.960 song called Mad Mad Mardi Gras. He hired me Winton 0:59:05.160 --> 0:59:08.800 and this saxophone player, Donald Harrison to play the part. 0:59:09.360 --> 0:59:12.200 And I wrote the arrangements because that was my I've 0:59:12.240 --> 0:59:13.720 been listening to that stuff. So we didn't have a 0:59:13.800 --> 0:59:16.280 baritone sax, so we took an alto and dropped it 0:59:16.360 --> 0:59:18.280 in octave so it sounded like a Barton. We did 0:59:18.320 --> 0:59:20.560 all these crazy things, so we made like a six 0:59:20.720 --> 0:59:23.640 or seven piece horn section on this song, Mad Mad 0:59:23.760 --> 0:59:26.080 Madira from this from this guy in New Orleans. 0:59:26.120 --> 0:59:27.640 It was It was cool and I played a little 0:59:27.680 --> 0:59:33.000 corny ass so with I guess that debut record. 0:59:33.280 --> 0:59:38.560 Whose idea was it to use the classic Davis quintet 0:59:38.680 --> 0:59:42.320 as the background at least with Us Shorter and your 0:59:42.360 --> 0:59:43.120 brother's moles? 0:59:43.160 --> 0:59:47.400 But Ron Carter and Well Wenton was playing with them. 0:59:47.880 --> 0:59:49.960 Wenton was doing a tour with them as a quartet 0:59:50.320 --> 0:59:53.360 with Ron Herby and Tonio. Okay, he was playing. Was 0:59:53.400 --> 0:59:55.040 that by design or just like. 0:59:55.560 --> 0:59:57.480 Yeah, they hired him to play on the on the 0:59:57.560 --> 0:59:59.880 road with so I'm saying yeah, it was by design. 1:00:00.560 --> 1:00:04.560 So he was on tour with them when they recorded 1:00:04.600 --> 1:00:06.640 that part of the record, it was in Tokyo, and. 1:00:06.680 --> 1:00:08.360 So went and called me and said, hey, man, you're 1:00:08.360 --> 1:00:08.959 doing the record. 1:00:09.000 --> 1:00:11.320 Fly to Tokyo. I flew to Tokyo. 1:00:12.120 --> 1:00:14.320 I see just growing up listening to. 1:00:16.240 --> 1:00:20.040 Your records, I have to personally say that, you know, 1:00:20.800 --> 1:00:24.560 I got your The first album I've got of yours 1:00:24.720 --> 1:00:29.840 was Scenes in the City, and the thing that struck me, 1:00:30.000 --> 1:00:32.360 Like I was thirteen when it came out, So the 1:00:32.680 --> 1:00:35.360 one thing that struck me about that record was the 1:00:35.480 --> 1:00:39.600 title cut and the fact that you kind of predated 1:00:40.120 --> 1:00:44.480 Doctor Dre Prince Paul as far as like, you know, 1:00:44.600 --> 1:00:49.480 the way that you crafted that song as a sketch 1:00:49.600 --> 1:00:53.040 or as more like I don't know how to describe it, 1:00:53.200 --> 1:00:54.680 like Stevie Wonderre's the only person. 1:00:54.480 --> 1:00:55.480 I know that used like. 1:00:57.000 --> 1:01:00.480 Dialogue or Marlena Shaw, she did it a little bit 1:01:00.840 --> 1:01:04.880 on that Uh uh, who'se bitch is this? I forget 1:01:04.920 --> 1:01:08.520 that album and Blue Note, But what was at least 1:01:08.560 --> 1:01:11.400 with the title cut with Scenes of the City, what 1:01:11.600 --> 1:01:13.640 was in your mind frame when you were crafting that 1:01:14.280 --> 1:01:17.560 like as far as presenting a story of poetry and 1:01:17.840 --> 1:01:20.080 the way that you weave in different music genres in 1:01:20.160 --> 1:01:21.680 and out like it's not mine. 1:01:21.720 --> 1:01:23.360 That was unheard of an eighty four, at least for 1:01:23.480 --> 1:01:25.600 me as a thirteen year old. I never heard anything 1:01:25.680 --> 1:01:25.800 like that. 1:01:26.200 --> 1:01:28.680 If you passed the prolog that was a mingus mingus 1:01:28.720 --> 1:01:31.120 did it? I heard in the city, Yeah, that would 1:01:31.120 --> 1:01:33.480 be great to do that. And I used my homeboy. 1:01:33.520 --> 1:01:35.080 Wendell Pierce was the narror on it. 1:01:35.600 --> 1:01:39.160 That was Wendell p Wow. Wende it just after New York. 1:01:39.200 --> 1:01:41.120 He was at Jui Yord like, hey, bro, come. 1:01:41.080 --> 1:01:41.600 Do this for me. 1:01:41.960 --> 1:01:43.640 I'll pay you. Yeah, man, I'll do it. 1:01:45.360 --> 1:01:46.000 That's what's up. 1:01:46.680 --> 1:01:47.160 I'll pay you. 1:01:47.520 --> 1:01:49.640 You know. He's a student, he's struggling. I'm like, yeah, man, 1:01:49.640 --> 1:01:50.960 you're gonna get paid for this shit. I mean like, 1:01:51.160 --> 1:01:53.080 it's not like in New Orleans where you do me 1:01:53.160 --> 1:01:55.640 a solid, you know, and I write some music for 1:01:55.760 --> 1:01:56.160 your movie. 1:01:56.160 --> 1:01:57.520 It was like, no, you're gonna get paid to do it. 1:01:57.640 --> 1:01:58.280 Come do this thing. 1:01:59.680 --> 1:02:04.280 Steve Holman, Delta play on that. Steve Coleman, Yeah, oh 1:02:04.360 --> 1:02:07.240 mom boy, okay, stee, all right. So you had some 1:02:07.360 --> 1:02:12.480 inbased ties in there, but yes, and a four in 1:02:12.560 --> 1:02:13.800 base wasn't established. 1:02:14.440 --> 1:02:17.600 It was eighty three. Oh. It was recorded in eighty 1:02:17.640 --> 1:02:20.680 two out of the Vanguard, and I'm like, I'm doing 1:02:20.760 --> 1:02:23.040 this song, man, come do this hit with me. Okay, 1:02:23.400 --> 1:02:25.919 it was him in your Home where Robin you Banks. 1:02:26.040 --> 1:02:27.800 You know, Smithy was on it, you know, and it 1:02:27.960 --> 1:02:30.120 was just it was yeah, it was just it was 1:02:30.160 --> 1:02:31.800 a cool thing to do. So yeah, it was a 1:02:31.880 --> 1:02:33.959 it was an old Mingus tune called scenes in the City. 1:02:34.280 --> 1:02:36.960 And I'm talking about those cats because like, I idolized 1:02:36.960 --> 1:02:42.960 those cats growing up like taine uh Kirkland uh even 1:02:43.000 --> 1:02:45.320 staring at Moffett, like what what were those cats like? 1:02:45.520 --> 1:02:50.480 Like in general, he described their musicianship or I get 1:02:50.520 --> 1:02:52.200 the I get the already, I already know. 1:02:52.240 --> 1:02:55.520 You're you're you're, you're you're deflating my balloon of the 1:02:55.680 --> 1:02:58.240 romanticized musicians thing. 1:02:58.440 --> 1:03:00.560 So no, what I mean, you know they were they 1:03:00.600 --> 1:03:04.120 were complete musicians. It's like that thing everybody heard Tan 1:03:04.240 --> 1:03:06.720 playing with. When I met Tange when. 1:03:06.560 --> 1:03:08.680 I got to Berkeley, I was R and B saxophone player, 1:03:09.280 --> 1:03:11.280 and I'm like, I'm interested in this jazz thing. 1:03:11.600 --> 1:03:15.080 When Tange got to Berkeley, he was basically a fusion. 1:03:16.320 --> 1:03:19.120 Okay, you know Billy cobbham Nerod and Michael Walden, he 1:03:19.200 --> 1:03:26.280 was out of that camp, right, and uh yeah, you know, yeah, 1:03:26.440 --> 1:03:31.800 yeah early well, yeah, when he was playing with so 1:03:32.160 --> 1:03:34.200 it was like we both got there and started checking 1:03:34.240 --> 1:03:37.720 out jazz at the same time, different things, but our 1:03:37.840 --> 1:03:39.080 bass was something else. 1:03:40.040 --> 1:03:41.920 And then we started listening to jazz and he got 1:03:42.120 --> 1:03:45.000 heavy into the oven thing, and I was listening to 1:03:45.280 --> 1:03:49.120 Wayne playing with Miles Davis and Lester Young and he 1:03:49.280 --> 1:03:50.520 was just a brilliant musician. 1:03:50.560 --> 1:03:52.680 There were a couple of musicians because I had never 1:03:52.720 --> 1:03:56.360 played with Jeff and there were a couple of musicians, So. 1:03:56.480 --> 1:03:59.440 Yeah, man, Jeff Man, I don't know what he's playing. 1:04:00.240 --> 1:04:02.800 That ship's not happening. So I'm like, damn, it must 1:04:02.840 --> 1:04:04.880 be happening then, because if they think it's not happening. 1:04:05.320 --> 1:04:07.000 So I'd say, hey, man, let's do a session. And 1:04:07.000 --> 1:04:09.360 I heard him playing, I'm like, oh, it's killing because 1:04:09.400 --> 1:04:12.600 it was so melodic and it defied what you thought 1:04:12.680 --> 1:04:14.640 the drummer was supposed to do because he was so 1:04:14.800 --> 1:04:17.040 used to hearing him and then playing in the middle of. 1:04:17.040 --> 1:04:20.080 Song, you know, so he was kind of bringing that 1:04:20.320 --> 1:04:23.560 y you know, along with the tony thing. And his 1:04:23.720 --> 1:04:27.760 timing is immaculate. Yeah, and his musicianship is like we 1:04:27.840 --> 1:04:30.360 would like k Kurt Ellen was was doing a record. 1:04:30.400 --> 1:04:34.880 Called The Question about three years ago. Yeah, I was, 1:04:35.160 --> 1:04:38.200 I was thinking about using Tange. It's like some musicians 1:04:38.440 --> 1:04:41.080 said that he's just the kind of cat that's just 1:04:41.160 --> 1:04:43.480 going to play what he wants to play. And it's 1:04:43.520 --> 1:04:47.560 really funny when you have musicians that don't really understand 1:04:47.720 --> 1:04:52.360 jazz language and they airtain play, that's what they think 1:04:52.400 --> 1:04:52.880 he's doing. 1:04:53.840 --> 1:04:55.640 They think he's just playing whatever he wants. 1:04:56.760 --> 1:05:00.200 And I just told Kurt Man Tane is one of 1:05:00.240 --> 1:05:02.720 the best musicians on the planet, and he's gonna play 1:05:02.760 --> 1:05:04.880 your music and hook it up to the degree that 1:05:05.000 --> 1:05:08.120 you will be depressed anytime you hear another drummer trying 1:05:08.160 --> 1:05:12.760 to say And when the record was done, he's like, 1:05:13.000 --> 1:05:15.080 I can already tell I'm going to be depressed a 1:05:15.160 --> 1:05:18.440 lot because changes everything he plays is based on what 1:05:18.520 --> 1:05:19.640 the melody of the song is. 1:05:19.720 --> 1:05:23.760 I mean, you know, his logic, his brain was unbelievable. 1:05:24.120 --> 1:05:26.720 How much rope do you give him as a drummer too, 1:05:27.760 --> 1:05:30.880 because what I last storing to him is just his 1:05:31.120 --> 1:05:36.120 ability to change time, signature and reconfigure a song a 1:05:36.160 --> 1:05:38.240 different way that you don't hear it and that's the 1:05:38.280 --> 1:05:41.040 one thing I borrow from him the most, where I'll 1:05:41.040 --> 1:05:42.960 be in the pocket, then I'll, you know, I'll switch 1:05:43.040 --> 1:05:45.760 something in that's still in the pocket, but a different 1:05:45.800 --> 1:05:48.960 time signature, like when the songs, when you're writing these 1:05:49.000 --> 1:05:52.400 songs and you're arranging these songs, like how much leeway 1:05:52.520 --> 1:05:53.400 are you giving him? 1:05:54.040 --> 1:05:55.880 At least in the studio. I know that live is 1:05:55.920 --> 1:05:58.400 a different thing, and you guys just go from your gut, but. 1:05:59.120 --> 1:06:04.960 No studios like what you hear? What you hear make 1:06:05.000 --> 1:06:06.880 it better? All right? 1:06:06.960 --> 1:06:08.800 I can nerd out on your jazz career a lot, 1:06:08.880 --> 1:06:10.959 but there's other areas of your life and we gotta 1:06:11.480 --> 1:06:14.320 kid on. I got to get to film before you 1:06:14.480 --> 1:06:17.240 even get to your hip hop part. The first thing 1:06:17.320 --> 1:06:20.120 I saw you and was on probably one of the 1:06:20.320 --> 1:06:24.240 blackest episodes of Saturday Night Live I've ever seen, Malcolm 1:06:24.360 --> 1:06:29.280 Jamar Warner episode with run DMC, and that's back in 1:06:29.360 --> 1:06:33.320 eighty six when they would let filmmakers do these shorts. 1:06:33.360 --> 1:06:38.160 And I guess Spike Lee, yeah, Spikey yeah, ho Warner 1:06:38.200 --> 1:06:42.080 plenty Is that the first time you met with Spike 1:06:42.200 --> 1:06:44.720 or like, how did you how are you even available 1:06:44.800 --> 1:06:47.760 or open to even be in that lane. 1:06:48.720 --> 1:06:51.400 I did some theater in high school and I was 1:06:51.520 --> 1:06:56.480 not afraid that. But I met Spike. Spike. It's really 1:06:56.520 --> 1:06:59.240 funny story. Spike was going around the neighborhood trying to 1:06:59.240 --> 1:07:02.480 get people that she's gotta have it. She's gonna have 1:07:03.640 --> 1:07:07.080 that's right. So he rings the doorbell me and went. 1:07:07.200 --> 1:07:10.040 Now. They were living in Brooklyn on Washington Avenue, basically 1:07:10.200 --> 1:07:11.200 six box from Spikes. 1:07:11.840 --> 1:07:14.480 He says, hey, you know, hey, man Brandon witness, my 1:07:14.600 --> 1:07:15.200 named Spike Lee. 1:07:15.240 --> 1:07:18.760 I'm a filmmaker. You know, my dad's a musician, you know, 1:07:18.880 --> 1:07:20.240 And it's just like I just want to welcome you 1:07:20.280 --> 1:07:22.760 to the neighborhood. He didn't have the courage to take 1:07:23.160 --> 1:07:24.480 throw us some money for the movie. 1:07:24.520 --> 1:07:25.320 He never brought it up. 1:07:25.840 --> 1:07:27.760 He never brought it up. He says, you know, my 1:07:27.880 --> 1:07:30.080 dad's a musician. I said, really, what's his name? Bill Lee? 1:07:30.160 --> 1:07:32.840 Went to the bass player. Yeah, how you know that? 1:07:32.960 --> 1:07:35.960 He says, man, we heard your dad when he was 1:07:36.320 --> 1:07:37.200 we were little kids. 1:07:37.240 --> 1:07:39.240 He had this band with like a folk band. And 1:07:39.440 --> 1:07:42.120 I said, oh, ship the descendant of Mike and Phoebe. 1:07:42.560 --> 1:07:44.000 And he goes, oh my god, y'all know that. 1:07:44.240 --> 1:07:48.680 Yeah, but we didn't want to go, but my Dad's aid, yo, 1:07:48.720 --> 1:07:51.280 golf this concert. This guys from New York. And it 1:07:51.400 --> 1:07:51.720 was fun. 1:07:51.800 --> 1:07:52.400 I mean, you know, it was. 1:07:52.400 --> 1:07:55.400 Storytelling, it was little jazz in it, little folk lore. 1:07:55.480 --> 1:07:57.280 It was great. It was a great little concert. I 1:07:57.400 --> 1:08:00.240 was like eight or nine, like if I was eight, 1:08:00.280 --> 1:08:00.960 Winton was seven. 1:08:01.160 --> 1:08:03.400 I was nine, Winton was eight. And they came to 1:08:03.480 --> 1:08:05.120 New Orleans and the sending to Mike and Phoebe and 1:08:05.200 --> 1:08:07.520 that really freaked him out, you know. And and we 1:08:07.680 --> 1:08:09.440 just hung out and had a great time and we 1:08:09.440 --> 1:08:11.200 would see each other on the stupid. And he never 1:08:11.360 --> 1:08:14.920 asked for any money for the ask O you should have. 1:08:14.960 --> 1:08:16.960 I would have got a return then some I would 1:08:17.040 --> 1:08:20.200 have done it. But we just hit it off, you know. 1:08:20.280 --> 1:08:21.760 And I go to his house and we would just 1:08:21.760 --> 1:08:23.680 sit around. And then he told me one day I 1:08:23.760 --> 1:08:26.240 had had to shoot this short. You want to be 1:08:26.320 --> 1:08:26.479 in it. 1:08:26.520 --> 1:08:28.920 I'm like, yeah, whatever you want, man, you know. And 1:08:29.000 --> 1:08:31.120 he's playing explaining what it was, and I'm like, yeah, 1:08:31.120 --> 1:08:32.800 I'll stand on the corner in Brooklyn and play. 1:08:34.200 --> 1:08:36.040 Stand on the corner and play and crack jokes on 1:08:36.160 --> 1:08:37.000 people that went by. 1:08:37.760 --> 1:08:39.840 He's like, just insult people when they walked by. I say, yeah, 1:08:39.840 --> 1:08:47.160 I'm from newmans. 1:08:43.720 --> 1:08:46.960 Unpressure on me. I hope it's still on YouTube. Yeah. 1:08:47.120 --> 1:08:52.280 It's basically short of Branford needed to rustle up some 1:08:52.400 --> 1:08:56.600 money for for you know, diapers and be a. 1:08:56.640 --> 1:08:59.280 Man formula, carry your child and the great And I 1:08:59.360 --> 1:09:01.160 walked outside. I'm an musician. What do you want me 1:09:01.240 --> 1:09:02.559 to do? Go be a man? 1:09:02.640 --> 1:09:05.360 So I walked outside. I started playing for chains. Wait 1:09:05.520 --> 1:09:07.960 who who was the on Fulton Avenue? 1:09:08.000 --> 1:09:09.560 It was like the premise of it, if you know 1:09:09.640 --> 1:09:10.720 Brooklyn is hilarious. 1:09:11.000 --> 1:09:12.040 What kind of money you're gonna make? 1:09:15.800 --> 1:09:20.000 Yeah, there's also so how did you get and throw 1:09:20.080 --> 1:09:21.960 Mama from the train? And like, at this point, are 1:09:22.040 --> 1:09:23.360 you damn? 1:09:23.439 --> 1:09:24.440 I forgot about. 1:09:26.400 --> 1:09:29.320 Yes. I think it was after they saw the Sting movie. 1:09:29.479 --> 1:09:31.040 I was just talking all kind of crazy shit in 1:09:31.120 --> 1:09:34.840 the movie. Wait, I do have one Sting question. 1:09:35.560 --> 1:09:40.400 Can you please tell me what you and Sting were 1:09:40.479 --> 1:09:42.720 laughing at at the end of the title track of 1:09:42.840 --> 1:09:43.880 Dreaming of the Blue Turtles? 1:09:44.360 --> 1:09:46.920 Anyway, please please, because. 1:09:48.280 --> 1:09:51.080 You know what someone asked me. Someone asked me, what 1:09:51.240 --> 1:09:52.880 is the genesis of my laugh? 1:09:53.680 --> 1:09:57.559 And I think hearing you two laugh and that goofy 1:09:57.680 --> 1:10:01.360 laughing what like, I can tell there's an inside joke 1:10:01.520 --> 1:10:02.680 so obvious that I. 1:10:03.600 --> 1:10:06.960 When this ship ain't rolling, I'll tell you stink won't tell. 1:10:06.880 --> 1:10:09.800 Me, you'll I'll tell you. 1:10:11.560 --> 1:10:14.360 That's how you do. It's good, it's not. 1:10:14.479 --> 1:10:15.439 Really, it's mundane. 1:10:15.560 --> 1:10:19.080 Really, but still it ain't gonna come from me on record. 1:10:19.280 --> 1:10:22.439 All good, No, I get it. I just when whenever 1:10:22.560 --> 1:10:26.000 that laugh breakdown happens, I just you know, all right, 1:10:26.600 --> 1:10:28.200 you know we've had Spike on the show. 1:10:29.080 --> 1:10:31.880 We've we've we've talked about the scene for five minutes, 1:10:31.920 --> 1:10:36.080 and then after the show was edited and completed, I 1:10:36.200 --> 1:10:39.639 went back to look at this clip, and I believe 1:10:41.120 --> 1:10:42.320 that you had. 1:10:42.160 --> 1:10:48.400 A hand in that fight scene in school days. He 1:10:48.600 --> 1:10:52.240 told you didn't know it wasn't it wasn't. Okay, Well. 1:10:54.280 --> 1:10:57.479 No, no, no, when we I asked him because someone 1:10:57.560 --> 1:10:59.759 told I think I talked to Ernest Dickerson. 1:11:00.520 --> 1:11:04.759 Yeah, Ernest told me that when that step show happened, 1:11:05.680 --> 1:11:07.439 Uh when when the fight occurred? 1:11:08.479 --> 1:11:10.719 That was a real fight. And then I asked Spike 1:11:10.720 --> 1:11:12.439 about it. He was like, yes, that was a real fight. 1:11:12.520 --> 1:11:16.200 And when I went back to look at the. 1:11:16.320 --> 1:11:25.880 Tape, you instac lady went to He's sipping tea right now. 1:11:25.920 --> 1:11:28.400 He's literally I wish I was sipping bourbon. 1:11:28.760 --> 1:11:29.679 Then I tell you the story. 1:11:29.840 --> 1:11:33.479 So I was, what was the deal with school days? 1:11:33.800 --> 1:11:35.639 And was the tension that real? 1:11:36.760 --> 1:11:37.400 For some? It was? 1:11:38.040 --> 1:11:38.720 For some it was. 1:11:38.800 --> 1:11:41.880 I mean, Spike tried to create this environment so the 1:11:41.960 --> 1:11:44.280 light skinned people were in a better hotel and we 1:11:44.400 --> 1:11:47.000 went a raggedy ass hotel. But the reality is is, man, 1:11:47.479 --> 1:11:50.200 he's a professional actress, you know what I mean, you 1:11:50.280 --> 1:11:52.240 didn't have to create that kind of tension. I mean, 1:11:52.400 --> 1:11:56.200 they can create it on command. I really don't remember 1:11:57.200 --> 1:11:59.559 us being mad because we win one hotel and they 1:11:59.600 --> 1:12:00.240 want another one. 1:12:00.479 --> 1:12:03.160 I don't remember that at all. Maybe some people felt 1:12:03.200 --> 1:12:03.639 that way. 1:12:03.520 --> 1:12:07.400 But not the crew I was hanging with. And the fight, well, 1:12:07.400 --> 1:12:10.000 the fight was it was mostly in character. It had 1:12:10.080 --> 1:12:15.240 nothing to do with off set anything. Is we were 1:12:15.400 --> 1:12:18.760 ridiculing the g fi gs throughout the whole movie. Yeah. 1:12:19.080 --> 1:12:20.799 So then they were doing. 1:12:20.640 --> 1:12:24.320 Their little song and we came out with this daddy 1:12:24.400 --> 1:12:28.080 longstroke thing without we're gonna do our step We're gonna 1:12:28.120 --> 1:12:34.559 do our step show, you know, wo daddy, So we're 1:12:34.640 --> 1:12:39.599 coming on onto the stage. Oh yeah, off of that stage. 1:12:39.640 --> 1:12:43.760 I don't really remember and T. C. Campbell's character said 1:12:43.840 --> 1:12:46.720 something to me, so I said something to her. I 1:12:46.720 --> 1:12:48.439 ain't gonna tell you. I don't even remember what I said, 1:12:48.479 --> 1:12:53.360 but it wasn't Connie whatever. And Carlo says, don't you 1:12:53.360 --> 1:12:55.559 talk to about woman like that? So I slapped him 1:12:55.640 --> 1:12:59.479 upside his head and said, shut up, blankety blank, and 1:12:59.560 --> 1:13:02.880 then he bum rush me, and then everybody just bum rushes, 1:13:03.000 --> 1:13:04.200 and then it starts. 1:13:04.120 --> 1:13:04.479 And it's on. 1:13:06.800 --> 1:13:09.160 So like with Spike Yell's cut, are y'all cool after that? 1:13:09.320 --> 1:13:10.280 Or how does it? How does it go? 1:13:11.320 --> 1:13:12.080 What is going on? 1:13:12.439 --> 1:13:18.280 That's all it does all and Fishburn is absolutely furious 1:13:19.000 --> 1:13:22.720 because he says fight scenes need to be choreographed. This 1:13:22.880 --> 1:13:25.160 is how people get hurt. And I didn't disagree with him. 1:13:25.680 --> 1:13:28.400 I didn't think that would happen. It was just we 1:13:28.560 --> 1:13:30.880 were I was in this character and I was the 1:13:30.920 --> 1:13:33.559 whole movie. I was poking and priding at the g FIDS, 1:13:34.120 --> 1:13:36.040 you know, we were all doing it, and it just 1:13:36.200 --> 1:13:38.639 went and it escalated to this thing. 1:13:39.640 --> 1:13:43.000 How long did it take to alleviate that situation? I 1:13:43.040 --> 1:13:43.320 don't know. 1:13:43.360 --> 1:13:46.320 A minute, maybe, I mean just a minute. It wasn't 1:13:46.680 --> 1:13:48.519 think about fighting. I mean, it's like It's hard to 1:13:48.600 --> 1:13:50.639 fight for three minutes. I mean, you ever tried boxing 1:13:50.680 --> 1:13:51.160 for three minutes? 1:13:51.160 --> 1:13:52.559 You know what I mean? Your arms get tired. 1:13:53.080 --> 1:13:54.600 So it was just all that screaming and all in 1:13:54.640 --> 1:13:56.760 a minute men and a half and Spikes laughing his 1:13:56.880 --> 1:14:01.800 ass off and rolling, keep it rolling. You know. 1:14:02.040 --> 1:14:06.640 There's a scene in Nobetta that I always wanted to know. 1:14:06.760 --> 1:14:09.240 First of all, was the music created before the film 1:14:09.360 --> 1:14:09.719 was shot? 1:14:10.240 --> 1:14:10.400 Yeah? 1:14:10.439 --> 1:14:13.000 It had to be because they had to choreographed it. Okay. 1:14:13.240 --> 1:14:17.920 So that said, I was really impressed with the authenticity 1:14:19.040 --> 1:14:25.799 of that first moment when Denzel comes to interrupt Wesley 1:14:25.920 --> 1:14:32.719 solo on stay Hey, and on the soundtrack, you actually 1:14:34.080 --> 1:14:37.040 recreate that moment where you're mid solo and then when 1:14:37.080 --> 1:14:40.120 it comes to the head and you stop. I always 1:14:40.160 --> 1:14:41.920 thought that shit was so genius because I heard the 1:14:41.960 --> 1:14:45.280 soundtrack first before I saw the movie and wanted to 1:14:45.400 --> 1:14:48.720 know why was that mistake there? So, even even way 1:14:48.840 --> 1:14:52.000 before then, Spike asked you to create a moment in 1:14:52.120 --> 1:14:55.519 which Terrence interrupts your playing and you. 1:14:55.600 --> 1:15:01.839 Take yeah, wow, okay, Yeah, it was choreographed, totally choreograph. 1:15:01.880 --> 1:15:03.320 They had to be that way because he wanted it 1:15:03.400 --> 1:15:04.920 to be that way. In the film, so we had 1:15:04.960 --> 1:15:05.479 that count for that. 1:15:05.960 --> 1:15:08.920 I see we got to jump to My Rainie because 1:15:08.960 --> 1:15:12.439 I got Eves by question all other ship. 1:15:13.040 --> 1:15:15.160 Yes, oh I love that. 1:15:15.320 --> 1:15:15.800 That was fun. 1:15:16.320 --> 1:15:19.639 Yeah, So My Rainy is very similar because the musicians 1:15:19.720 --> 1:15:22.960 had to choreograph. They had the choreograph, you know, and 1:15:23.160 --> 1:15:26.640 and and my my thing was always about and that's 1:15:26.720 --> 1:15:29.439 the look real And it's really not that hard to do. 1:15:30.600 --> 1:15:32.720 You have to erase any notions of what you think 1:15:32.880 --> 1:15:35.840 musicians are like, and to look at films, you have 1:15:35.960 --> 1:15:36.640 to have. 1:15:36.720 --> 1:15:39.320 A physical presence where you're playing the instrument physically. 1:15:40.200 --> 1:15:42.880 And the most important part is that when there's no 1:15:43.080 --> 1:15:45.639 sound on the on the recording, your fingers should never 1:15:45.760 --> 1:15:48.080 ever be moving. So you need to learn it. 1:15:48.160 --> 1:15:50.320 You don't need to learn how to play the instrument. 1:15:51.080 --> 1:15:52.760 You just need to make sure that windows no. 1:15:52.880 --> 1:15:56.000 Sound, your fingers on moving and you want to close 1:15:56.040 --> 1:15:58.000 in your eyes and do this and there's no sound coming. 1:15:58.080 --> 1:15:58.839 That's the giveaway. 1:15:59.560 --> 1:16:03.120 So when we went to UH to do the filming 1:16:03.200 --> 1:16:06.680 in Pittsburgh, I saw some of the early things and said, look, 1:16:06.680 --> 1:16:09.639 I need to meet with the musicians. You know, everybody 1:16:09.720 --> 1:16:12.320 has their handler and they're like, look, you know, the musicians. 1:16:12.840 --> 1:16:15.400 It's like a big thing. It's like a city. So 1:16:15.560 --> 1:16:17.240 the movie people were like, Oh, these guys are the 1:16:17.280 --> 1:16:19.240 stars and they don't have time for this. I'm like, well, 1:16:20.120 --> 1:16:22.479 I'll be honest that The Pirates are playing at one today. 1:16:23.200 --> 1:16:26.040 I'm getting baid. I'm good, you know. So if you 1:16:26.120 --> 1:16:28.639 want them to look like shit on the film, that's 1:16:28.680 --> 1:16:31.400 on you, fine with me. So I went to The 1:16:31.439 --> 1:16:32.320 Pirates Irque? 1:16:32.800 --> 1:16:37.040 Does it irque when directors are sort of dismissive of 1:16:38.000 --> 1:16:40.679 musical authenticity because I am a cat that will watch 1:16:40.720 --> 1:16:43.519 to see what the fingering is to make. 1:16:43.439 --> 1:16:45.799 Sure that I think it's to their detriment. 1:16:46.200 --> 1:16:49.240 Because you want people to believe that something's real, it 1:16:49.360 --> 1:16:52.679 needs to look real and it and it's not super hard. 1:16:53.439 --> 1:16:55.120 Like this was the whole thing that I was telling 1:16:55.600 --> 1:16:56.559 the guys are more better. 1:16:56.600 --> 1:16:58.040 It's like, you don't need to learn how. 1:16:57.960 --> 1:17:00.320 To play an instrument, you just need to under standing 1:17:00.360 --> 1:17:03.400 answering physically. So when Chadwick was playing, for instance, like 1:17:03.760 --> 1:17:05.320 they finally told me where you can have him for 1:17:05.479 --> 1:17:09.160 half an hour following day, so I had already seen them, 1:17:09.200 --> 1:17:11.200 so I knew what all of the problems were like. 1:17:11.280 --> 1:17:14.639 So Chadwick was playing and he was marching his back 1:17:14.800 --> 1:17:17.880 and playing like that like Miles, And I said, yeah, man, 1:17:17.920 --> 1:17:20.400 first of all, you playing a cornet number two. 1:17:20.640 --> 1:17:24.000 Miles Davis is two years old. You can't right like 1:17:24.160 --> 1:17:25.880 Miles in nineteen twenty nine. 1:17:27.000 --> 1:17:31.160 Go get some YouTube videos and watch Louis Armstrong play cornett, 1:17:32.040 --> 1:17:34.960 not trumpet, but watching there a couple of videos. 1:17:34.600 --> 1:17:37.479 From him in the early thirties and watching it he 1:17:37.560 --> 1:17:40.120 holds his body and he came back the next day 1:17:40.360 --> 1:17:42.240 he had it, wowd it down. 1:17:42.680 --> 1:17:46.400 He was just a consonant professional and with each musician, 1:17:46.520 --> 1:17:49.240 like Glenn Turnaman was playing piano, and you know piano 1:17:49.280 --> 1:17:54.479 players back then played stride and strid canos. You know, 1:17:54.840 --> 1:17:57.880 so your hands go from left and right to the center. 1:17:58.000 --> 1:18:01.360 That's essentially what it is. Think I think that's what 1:18:01.520 --> 1:18:04.200 you know. So your hands are going out and then in. 1:18:05.120 --> 1:18:07.120 So when he was doing that, his hands were. 1:18:07.000 --> 1:18:13.080 Going into out. So I'm like, bro, no, no, yeah, 1:18:14.640 --> 1:18:19.320 out in, not into out. And there's certain rhythms. 1:18:19.040 --> 1:18:21.479 You have to know. And then the piano player who 1:18:21.680 --> 1:18:23.840 did the recording was great. He kept it simple. 1:18:23.960 --> 1:18:25.800 So a lot of the music he had this little 1:18:25.880 --> 1:18:26.759 this little rhythm where. 1:18:26.640 --> 1:18:31.920 He's gonna bumped bomp bump bump, bump bom the whole time, 1:18:32.000 --> 1:18:34.320 through all of the changes. And I said, that's your rhythm. 1:18:34.840 --> 1:18:37.240 Sing it every day, and then when you sing it, 1:18:37.520 --> 1:18:40.760 play and he says, but you know, I don't. I said, 1:18:40.760 --> 1:18:41.360 it doesn't matter. 1:18:41.400 --> 1:18:44.320 When they shoot you, they're going to see your shoulders, 1:18:44.400 --> 1:18:46.920 and if you're not playing the piano, your shoulders won't move. 1:18:48.160 --> 1:18:49.720 So you have to play the piano. They're not going 1:18:49.760 --> 1:18:51.759 to show your fingers. You just have to play that rhythm. 1:18:52.240 --> 1:18:54.439 And he got in. They all got into it, and 1:18:54.520 --> 1:18:57.080 when you see them it looks like they're playing. It 1:18:57.160 --> 1:18:57.839 made a difference. 1:18:58.120 --> 1:19:00.360 And then Michael Pots re acted, well, he just had 1:19:00.400 --> 1:19:02.040 to show everybody up and learn how to play the 1:19:02.120 --> 1:19:04.400 damn bass. So he was actually playing the bass. 1:19:05.479 --> 1:19:09.240 Really, you're how long did it take them to nail 1:19:09.320 --> 1:19:09.719 his parts? 1:19:09.880 --> 1:19:10.920 He could play the damn bass. 1:19:10.960 --> 1:19:16.040 It took him no time. He played the BASSA made 1:19:16.040 --> 1:19:18.360 me sick. All right, you go away. And then Coleman 1:19:18.880 --> 1:19:21.200 playing trombone. He was great. I mean, they were great, 1:19:21.200 --> 1:19:23.320 they really, you know, they took to you know, and 1:19:24.000 --> 1:19:26.799 you know, and then I had a little station away from. 1:19:26.680 --> 1:19:30.200 The set because the set was closed, right, and it 1:19:30.320 --> 1:19:32.840 was inside of this big sound stage and we were 1:19:33.280 --> 1:19:35.640 just outside of that with a little keyboard, so they 1:19:35.680 --> 1:19:38.000 would come in if they had any issues with rehearsals 1:19:38.120 --> 1:19:39.599 or questions about things. 1:19:39.680 --> 1:19:45.000 And uh, where would you record? We recorded in New Orleans? Oh, okay. 1:19:45.520 --> 1:19:48.759 New Orleans musicians are perfect because they're the only musicians 1:19:48.840 --> 1:19:51.280 left in the country that had outside voices. I mean, 1:19:51.360 --> 1:19:52.479 speaking generically, but. 1:19:53.439 --> 1:19:55.639 More often than not, I see. 1:19:56.080 --> 1:19:59.800 Oh, there was a scene in the movie where Chad 1:20:00.200 --> 1:20:04.120 his characters talking about Buddy Bolden, and he's someone that 1:20:04.880 --> 1:20:06.719 there was a movie made about him, like a couple 1:20:06.760 --> 1:20:08.880 of years ago, but there's not a lot that's known 1:20:08.920 --> 1:20:11.720 about him, Like what what was kind of his importance? 1:20:13.040 --> 1:20:15.840 Buddy Bolden is kind of considered to be the father 1:20:16.040 --> 1:20:17.840 of traditional jazz. 1:20:17.880 --> 1:20:19.120 Trypic playing in New Orleans. 1:20:19.560 --> 1:20:21.679 Everybody that heard him says he had the biggest sound 1:20:21.680 --> 1:20:23.799 they ever heard in their lives. There are no recordings 1:20:23.840 --> 1:20:26.120 of him, and there's only one picture of him. He 1:20:26.320 --> 1:20:29.360 had some sort of breakdown, so he didn't you know, 1:20:29.479 --> 1:20:33.080 sometime in his thirties. But Louis armstrong and got swear 1:20:33.160 --> 1:20:37.160 by man, you should have hear everybody, sure It's actually 1:20:37.200 --> 1:20:39.320 a good subject because then you can mythologize all of 1:20:39.360 --> 1:20:40.599 it because no one knows anything. 1:20:41.600 --> 1:20:43.240 He was like the jazz or Manago. 1:20:45.760 --> 1:20:48.160 Everybody talks. All the old guys used to talk about him. 1:20:48.640 --> 1:20:56.240 Okay, Buck shot the funk, dude, we got the funk. 1:20:56.280 --> 1:20:56.840 Go ahead and do it. 1:20:58.280 --> 1:21:01.719 People waited, fucking premiere books, all the funk. 1:21:01.840 --> 1:21:07.000 Go Come on, man, No, no, you're good. You're it's 1:21:07.040 --> 1:21:09.160 your show. You're the you're the co leader, dude. 1:21:09.479 --> 1:21:15.559 I just wanted to this movie and scoring field welcome 1:21:15.680 --> 1:21:16.080 here you go. 1:21:16.439 --> 1:21:17.160 All right? Anyway? 1:21:17.280 --> 1:21:22.200 Anyway, look, you're for raising the hip hop. Uh have 1:21:22.360 --> 1:21:25.040 been legendary. I mean, you know we can name them all, 1:21:25.120 --> 1:21:25.599 fight the power? 1:21:25.720 --> 1:21:28.040 Whatnot? What was your attraction to it? 1:21:28.840 --> 1:21:33.400 And again, like coming from the traditional base that you 1:21:34.400 --> 1:21:39.120 kind of entered our our consciousness, Like how easy was 1:21:39.200 --> 1:21:42.080 this to explain? Or I guess I can hear the 1:21:42.120 --> 1:21:44.519 answer already. You're saying I didn't give a fuck, but 1:21:47.960 --> 1:21:52.960 correct it was there any blowback from like your your 1:21:53.240 --> 1:21:57.439 your inner circle of New Orleans cats or or by 1:21:57.520 --> 1:21:59.920 then you left New Orleans, or your family or any 1:22:00.040 --> 1:22:01.160 thing about you know. 1:22:01.320 --> 1:22:02.479 My family. We got into it. 1:22:02.640 --> 1:22:03.960 It was the whole thing were going on the road, 1:22:04.680 --> 1:22:08.720 and so that wasn't that wasn't encouraged or I mean 1:22:08.960 --> 1:22:11.320 it was more about it was more philosophical. It was 1:22:11.400 --> 1:22:13.600 more like, you know, he could get anybody to do 1:22:13.720 --> 1:22:16.760 that job. Jazz is really unique and needs you out there. 1:22:17.000 --> 1:22:18.639 And I say, well, way you're wrong, is he can't 1:22:18.640 --> 1:22:20.479 get anybody do to that job. I do that shit 1:22:20.520 --> 1:22:23.240 bet than anybody, So right, and. 1:22:23.280 --> 1:22:25.599 Then it was over. It was like, you know, y'all 1:22:25.640 --> 1:22:26.240 do what y'all do. 1:22:26.600 --> 1:22:27.120 I'll be back. 1:22:27.200 --> 1:22:28.720 I'll see you in a couple of years. It's great, 1:22:29.000 --> 1:22:29.400 I'd agree. 1:22:29.479 --> 1:22:33.000 So weird man, because I maybe I'm just shocked at 1:22:33.479 --> 1:22:36.800 the perception of that being so short sighted, because that 1:22:36.880 --> 1:22:39.840 would draw me in seeing you in spaces that quote 1:22:39.880 --> 1:22:40.880 you weren't to us to be in. 1:22:41.600 --> 1:22:42.320 Well, it's not short. 1:22:42.560 --> 1:22:44.519 It brings me back to the base that you came 1:22:44.560 --> 1:22:47.920 from because well not most people. That might be you 1:22:47.920 --> 1:22:50.840 because you're a musician, but most people will not make 1:22:50.920 --> 1:22:51.439 that journey. 1:22:51.960 --> 1:22:52.720 I already knew that. 1:22:52.800 --> 1:22:55.439 I watched, you know, as a as a big you know, 1:22:55.640 --> 1:22:58.280 headhunter fan and a big Weather reporter fan. I used 1:22:58.320 --> 1:23:00.720 to hear all the musicians, oh yeah, you know, we're 1:23:00.760 --> 1:23:03.479 just bringing jazz to the masses. No, I didn't even 1:23:03.520 --> 1:23:06.320 know you guys played jazz. I went up Berkeley and 1:23:06.360 --> 1:23:08.360 Smittie Smith put on a never t D record and 1:23:08.400 --> 1:23:10.400 he says, I said, man, who the hell is that? 1:23:10.479 --> 1:23:12.720 He goes man, that's the great Mom's name with Wayne Short, 1:23:12.760 --> 1:23:14.240 I said, Wayne Shorter, like the. 1:23:14.280 --> 1:23:17.840 Guy who plays with weather Report. He give me it's 1:23:17.880 --> 1:23:22.280 the same guy. I'm like, it is no idea, Herbie Hancock, 1:23:22.400 --> 1:23:26.080 the guy from Headhunters. And I'm a musician, so no, 1:23:26.160 --> 1:23:29.960 I mean, that's like, I don't even know why musicians embark. 1:23:29.720 --> 1:23:33.040 On that line that they always come back to their base. 1:23:33.640 --> 1:23:37.519 If you feel like doing some shit, do it. If 1:23:37.560 --> 1:23:39.920 you ain't no good at it, maybe you learn how 1:23:40.000 --> 1:23:42.920 to be better at it. But I was always good 1:23:42.960 --> 1:23:44.320 at it. I was good at it as a kid, 1:23:45.360 --> 1:23:47.400 so it wasn't so traumatic for me. 1:23:47.880 --> 1:23:49.080 I was just going home. 1:23:49.680 --> 1:23:55.360 So when the machines started in the seventies late seventies. 1:23:55.680 --> 1:23:58.160 That whole sound was so milk toseed to me. 1:23:58.880 --> 1:24:00.960 Remember the old tr and all the R and B 1:24:01.080 --> 1:24:04.200 songs were suddenly going like from hitting, you know, from 1:24:04.320 --> 1:24:05.200 fop to. 1:24:05.320 --> 1:24:14.519 Like post sexual healing. Yes, I know. So I was like, 1:24:15.640 --> 1:24:18.000 I'm like, the ship's over, it's over. 1:24:18.200 --> 1:24:22.360 So for me, sampling started, I'm like, ship the hits back, 1:24:23.320 --> 1:24:26.040 you know, the vibe is back, the attitude is back 1:24:26.160 --> 1:24:26.680 to beat the. 1:24:26.760 --> 1:24:29.960 Swag, you know, and and that was the thing that 1:24:30.080 --> 1:24:31.280 I liked about it the most. 1:24:31.800 --> 1:24:34.400 So have you tried to explain to your family that 1:24:35.560 --> 1:24:37.639 you know, the music that the Bomb Squad was doing 1:24:37.800 --> 1:24:41.960 was just as urgent as something that they just. 1:24:42.960 --> 1:24:44.960 Because I wouldn't spend any time trying to tell the 1:24:45.000 --> 1:24:47.080 Bomb Squad that they need to check all the love Supreme, 1:24:47.360 --> 1:24:48.360 I wouldn't even waste my time. 1:24:48.560 --> 1:24:50.960 Jazz cats wouldn't come to you. I know Premiere must 1:24:51.040 --> 1:24:54.360 have because half the stuff that he's sampled, Premiere is 1:24:55.160 --> 1:24:56.320 let's see what I'm saying, is dead. 1:24:56.400 --> 1:24:58.760 Like look, a lot of guys sampled a lot of 1:24:58.840 --> 1:25:01.000 jazz stuff. They put the album on and they skip 1:25:01.040 --> 1:25:03.240 across until they find something that they like. PROMI you 1:25:03.280 --> 1:25:05.599 would actually listen to the records. Premier is different. 1:25:05.640 --> 1:25:08.400 I mean, you know, you can't use him as a 1:25:08.520 --> 1:25:12.000 metaboor for everybody else. But like most people who are 1:25:12.040 --> 1:25:13.839 good at the thing, that's the thing they're interesting. 1:25:14.640 --> 1:25:18.000 It's like there was this. There was this musician magazine 1:25:18.720 --> 1:25:21.840 or Rolling Stone the eighties and it's like, give me 1:25:21.920 --> 1:25:25.200 your top ten records or top twenty or whatever it was. 1:25:25.240 --> 1:25:27.639 I think it was top and with all these musicians, 1:25:27.680 --> 1:25:30.120 and they stuck me in. And the hip hop guys 1:25:30.160 --> 1:25:32.679 picked ten hip hop CDs, the rock and roll guys 1:25:32.720 --> 1:25:34.120 picked ten rock and roll CDs. 1:25:34.840 --> 1:25:37.280 I had all kinds of shit in there. That's just me. 1:25:38.280 --> 1:25:40.599 So my thing is is that, all right, I'm already weird, 1:25:40.840 --> 1:25:42.800 Like I listened to all these different styles of music. 1:25:43.240 --> 1:25:45.840 I just think that a lot of people that gave 1:25:45.880 --> 1:25:49.679 went and shit for not liking pop music, but nobody 1:25:49.800 --> 1:25:53.040 gives pop musician shit for not liking anything other than 1:25:53.120 --> 1:25:56.120 pop music. I've never heard an interview where they say, oh, 1:25:56.120 --> 1:25:57.920 you know that shit, it's cool, but do you sing opera? 1:25:58.800 --> 1:26:01.280 Doesn't that but a jazz guy, well, do you play 1:26:01.320 --> 1:26:04.120 anything contemporary? Do you play anything pop? Why does he 1:26:04.240 --> 1:26:04.720 have to do that? 1:26:05.000 --> 1:26:08.120 Prince, I mean, Prince said like, look, left handed things 1:26:08.160 --> 1:26:08.719 about jazz. 1:26:08.760 --> 1:26:10.960 But I never took offense to it, because you know, 1:26:11.160 --> 1:26:13.640 the ship is daunting to a lot of people, it's intimidated. 1:26:14.360 --> 1:26:17.519 We universally thought that Prince was a genius, and you know, 1:26:18.320 --> 1:26:20.000 he didn't really know a lot about jazz, so he 1:26:20.000 --> 1:26:22.800 would always say, oh jazz whatever. 1:26:22.640 --> 1:26:26.120 Man, music's still great. It don't matter to me. He 1:26:26.160 --> 1:26:27.360 would do us for a raising to it. 1:26:27.800 --> 1:26:30.320 They tried with Madhouse versions of it. 1:26:30.680 --> 1:26:33.240 I know, I know, I don't want to shot anyway, 1:26:33.920 --> 1:26:37.480 shot that she was insult. 1:26:38.680 --> 1:26:42.880 Okay, So like Madhouse, I mean, the first eight was cool. 1:26:42.960 --> 1:26:45.880 I mean, the song was that Albue was kind of sad. 1:26:46.120 --> 1:26:48.160 But those guys the song. 1:26:48.120 --> 1:26:50.479 The song was, but I mean, I wouldn't have them. 1:26:51.320 --> 1:26:54.479 Eric Leeds is my boy, right, it ain't got nothing 1:26:54.479 --> 1:26:55.200 to do with jazz. 1:26:55.240 --> 1:26:58.240 He will tell you that hisself, you know what I mean. 1:26:58.400 --> 1:27:02.280 Like Eric Lee's brother is like that James Brown, fucking authority. 1:27:02.960 --> 1:27:07.400 Yeah, I'm saying, you know what I'm saying. 1:27:07.479 --> 1:27:10.519 So I mean, and I'm good with that. It's just 1:27:10.640 --> 1:27:13.160 that this people have this weird relationship with jazz. But 1:27:13.240 --> 1:27:15.439 the thing is that they don't know this shit. 1:27:15.840 --> 1:27:17.800 They have these opinions about the music that they have 1:27:17.920 --> 1:27:21.920 barely heard or barely listened to. And I'm not saying 1:27:22.000 --> 1:27:25.519 that they should because you know, when you do strange 1:27:25.560 --> 1:27:27.559 shit for a living, you. 1:27:27.640 --> 1:27:29.360 Really something's really got to be wrong with you. 1:27:29.479 --> 1:27:33.920 When you it's like, you know somebody who's a poet, 1:27:34.640 --> 1:27:36.920 not a slam poet, but a poet. They know what 1:27:37.000 --> 1:27:40.799 that shit means. It means obscurity, and you feel compelled 1:27:40.840 --> 1:27:42.840 to do it anyway. And you have colleagues who are 1:27:42.920 --> 1:27:44.799 just as strange as you are. And there are books, 1:27:45.080 --> 1:27:48.240 there are magazines about poets. Poets talk to other poets. 1:27:48.520 --> 1:27:51.479 They have awards for poetry, and they win these awards, 1:27:51.520 --> 1:27:52.960 and nobody in the world gives it damn. 1:27:53.560 --> 1:27:55.200 You know, I sat on a plane with a guy 1:27:55.880 --> 1:27:56.360 who got. 1:27:56.280 --> 1:27:59.160 An award because in the in the atom chain it 1:27:59.240 --> 1:28:02.160 was already Einstein theorized that there was seven quarks in 1:28:02.200 --> 1:28:04.720 the atom chain. They only found six. But I was 1:28:04.760 --> 1:28:06.719 on a plane with the guy who found the seventh court. 1:28:07.479 --> 1:28:09.880 Don't nobody know his name. Don't nobody give a damn. 1:28:09.920 --> 1:28:11.720 You think he's sitting around saying I'm pissed off that 1:28:11.800 --> 1:28:15.560 I'm not recognized. You love what you do. None of 1:28:15.600 --> 1:28:19.280 that other shit matters. And that's how I feel about 1:28:19.320 --> 1:28:21.040 all of this. I don't you know, how do you 1:28:21.080 --> 1:28:22.120 feel that people don't like this? 1:28:22.560 --> 1:28:25.080 I like it. I don't give a damn I don't care. 1:28:26.000 --> 1:28:29.120 I like it, you know, well, I like you when 1:28:29.120 --> 1:28:32.240 you play with the Dead Great. I like that shit too. 1:28:34.520 --> 1:28:37.120 This thing was great, Yes, he was great. I like 1:28:37.280 --> 1:28:37.599 that too. 1:28:38.120 --> 1:28:40.639 What's the point, It's like, what are you trying to say? 1:28:41.040 --> 1:28:42.560 If I didn't like it, I wouldn't do it. 1:28:43.760 --> 1:28:47.080 You have you met up a collaboration that you were, Man, 1:28:47.760 --> 1:28:50.000 I should have done that because I don't do those? 1:28:50.920 --> 1:28:52.040 Can I time in here? Now? 1:28:53.240 --> 1:28:59.280 Ive in So I'm collaborated with the late Great Rob Washerman. 1:29:01.160 --> 1:29:03.120 We had Bruce Hornsby on the show a few weeks ago. 1:29:03.200 --> 1:29:06.000 I forgot to ask him about this a song called 1:29:06.040 --> 1:29:07.640 White Wheeled Limousine. 1:29:08.760 --> 1:29:12.479 For on an album called Trios, and no one's ever 1:29:12.560 --> 1:29:13.680 heard of this album, Like. 1:29:14.160 --> 1:29:18.200 Like, no, people don't care whatever, But you have any 1:29:18.280 --> 1:29:21.759 recollections of that session or of playing with Rob Washington? 1:29:22.600 --> 1:29:22.800 Yeah? 1:29:22.880 --> 1:29:24.800 Well Rob was always kind of shy. He didn't he 1:29:24.960 --> 1:29:28.040 wasn't a real rose cat. Like I was still living 1:29:28.080 --> 1:29:30.600 in La then, and uh, and Bruce was living in 1:29:30.720 --> 1:29:31.960 La then. He spent a lot of time he was 1:29:32.000 --> 1:29:34.200 staying at Springsteen's house. So Rob kind of said, hey, man, 1:29:34.200 --> 1:29:36.439 don't you come down one of my tubes? And it 1:29:36.520 --> 1:29:38.320 was assumed because I think Bruce sang on the tune. 1:29:39.080 --> 1:29:41.880 Yeah. So uh, Bruce said, hey, man, let's go do 1:29:42.000 --> 1:29:42.759 this thing with Washington. 1:29:42.800 --> 1:29:44.479 I'm like, yeah, cool, let's go do it met up, 1:29:44.520 --> 1:29:46.040 you know, And I always tease him because you know, 1:29:46.120 --> 1:29:48.080 he's really he wasn't very shy cat. 1:29:48.200 --> 1:29:50.640 He didn't really and I would always like get in 1:29:50.720 --> 1:29:52.000 his face and be all from bost. I said, what 1:29:52.040 --> 1:29:52.600 do you think about that? 1:29:52.680 --> 1:29:55.800 He goes, come on, man, you had a good time. 1:29:55.840 --> 1:29:58.840 I mean we did one rehearsal take and then the 1:29:58.880 --> 1:30:02.120 real thing and then we hugged and we split. But 1:30:02.240 --> 1:30:05.639 you had known Rob Washman prior to that. Yeah, oh yeah, 1:30:05.760 --> 1:30:09.000 you know. I made him through how Wilman because Hal 1:30:09.080 --> 1:30:11.080 had him doing some stuff and then I met Rob 1:30:11.200 --> 1:30:15.680 and I did some other thing with Rob. Yeah yeah, man, 1:30:15.680 --> 1:30:16.559 I knew all the cats. 1:30:16.600 --> 1:30:16.760 Man. 1:30:16.920 --> 1:30:19.880 So, what what did you think of his bass playing? 1:30:20.120 --> 1:30:23.920 It's kind of where where where do you? You don't, 1:30:24.280 --> 1:30:24.559 I don't. 1:30:24.760 --> 1:30:26.320 I don't try to place people. 1:30:26.360 --> 1:30:28.400 But the thing is is that Rob's bass playing was 1:30:28.479 --> 1:30:31.680 greatful the music he was doing. Yeah, I mean, I 1:30:31.760 --> 1:30:34.040 mean I like the way he plays bass in the 1:30:34.080 --> 1:30:36.120 stuff that he was doing, Like if he was trying 1:30:36.120 --> 1:30:38.599 to play a love supreme. It probably wouldn't have worked. Yeah, 1:30:38.720 --> 1:30:39.599 very well. 1:30:39.760 --> 1:30:41.320 He was playing upright, but it was more like a. 1:30:41.360 --> 1:30:42.240 Stick base, you know. 1:30:42.479 --> 1:30:44.920 It wasn't like an acoustic upright base. It was like this. 1:30:45.439 --> 1:30:48.400 It was like this solid body electric thing. 1:30:48.920 --> 1:30:50.719 It's like a stick. I think they called it the stick. 1:30:51.040 --> 1:30:52.840 Chapman stick, that Chapman stick. 1:30:52.880 --> 1:30:54.719 Okay, cool, Yeah, he was playing the Chapmain stick. 1:30:55.320 --> 1:30:58.000 Is that the only time you recorded with with with 1:30:58.400 --> 1:30:59.120 Bruce Hornsby? 1:30:59.760 --> 1:30:59.800 No. 1:31:00.240 --> 1:31:03.320 I played on a couple of Bruises records, the one 1:31:03.360 --> 1:31:08.080 with the Talk of the Town. I played on that record. 1:31:08.400 --> 1:31:10.960 Aren't you on shadow Lands too? Is that your soprano 1:31:11.080 --> 1:31:14.200 or is that someone else's? Probably? Okay, Yeah, I was 1:31:14.200 --> 1:31:16.840 about to say, I think you are which record shadow Lands? 1:31:17.400 --> 1:31:23.000 Spike always uses that, Okay. I do want to know. 1:31:23.720 --> 1:31:28.080 Have you properly scored a Spike movie at all? Or 1:31:28.240 --> 1:31:31.280 is that just always Terrence's lane? Like I thought that 1:31:31.320 --> 1:31:32.880 would have been a natural progression for. 1:31:32.920 --> 1:31:35.479 You asked me to do it, and I was on 1:31:35.600 --> 1:31:37.960 the road, you know, really funny thing is is dead, 1:31:38.280 --> 1:31:40.880 you know digital audio workstations around then I would have 1:31:40.960 --> 1:31:42.120 done it, but I just said, man. 1:31:42.040 --> 1:31:43.280 I can't do the music justice. 1:31:43.320 --> 1:31:43.920 I'm not here. 1:31:44.720 --> 1:31:45.400 Terrence is here. 1:31:45.720 --> 1:31:48.960 Chance plays keyboards. He's a piano player and a trumpet player. 1:31:49.040 --> 1:31:52.080 He writes great stuff. Just get Terrence, get Tea, that's 1:31:52.120 --> 1:31:53.080 your man. It would be great. 1:31:53.280 --> 1:31:56.000 And it's been great because we lived four blocks from 1:31:56.040 --> 1:31:58.920 one another. Okay. I would see Terence all the time. 1:31:59.560 --> 1:32:01.640 We had premiere on the show a while back, and 1:32:01.720 --> 1:32:05.000 he would always talk about the time y'all living together. 1:32:05.200 --> 1:32:07.479 He said, y'all live together for our brother. What was 1:32:07.560 --> 1:32:10.519 that like his premiere a while dude? 1:32:11.240 --> 1:32:18.280 Ain't that wow? Son? Well, first of all, we were 1:32:18.320 --> 1:32:20.320 we were doing spite, wanting me to work with them 1:32:20.400 --> 1:32:22.360 on that jazz. 1:32:23.560 --> 1:32:25.519 Yeah, and we just hit it off. 1:32:26.439 --> 1:32:27.240 We just hit it off. 1:32:27.479 --> 1:32:29.240 And you know they cool kid, did you know? 1:32:29.280 --> 1:32:32.760 They cool cats and funny and they just mentioned, you know, 1:32:33.080 --> 1:32:35.920 ship man, we just got evicted and say, well, ship man, 1:32:35.960 --> 1:32:36.960 you know I got this big. 1:32:36.920 --> 1:32:39.559 Ass house in Brooklyn, me and my wife and my kid, 1:32:39.680 --> 1:32:42.320 come on, come hang out. And it wound up being 1:32:42.400 --> 1:32:49.400 six months. What was that last? And it was it 1:32:49.520 --> 1:32:51.840 was like jaw the damage it back then it was 1:32:51.880 --> 1:32:54.840 just and little dap, you know, from a. 1:32:58.120 --> 1:32:58.920 Y you know. 1:32:59.040 --> 1:33:01.600 So, so I got hang with the whole crew. You know. 1:33:02.280 --> 1:33:04.160 It was good. It was fun. 1:33:04.920 --> 1:33:08.160 There was a song on on buck Shot, the first 1:33:08.200 --> 1:33:10.280 book shot, not the music evolution when the first one, 1:33:11.520 --> 1:33:14.960 ain't it funny? I can't remember who's the girl singing 1:33:15.000 --> 1:33:15.200 on that? 1:33:15.360 --> 1:33:20.120 And what Tammy town Tammy Townsend? What's she up to now? Like, 1:33:20.200 --> 1:33:21.000 what's her story? 1:33:21.040 --> 1:33:21.200 Do you? 1:33:21.479 --> 1:33:22.519 I really liked her voice. 1:33:22.800 --> 1:33:26.559 She was She still lives in la and she has 1:33:26.560 --> 1:33:29.360 a couple of shows. She was recently on some show 1:33:29.640 --> 1:33:33.920 on one of those Disney Channel shows. Okay, I don't 1:33:33.960 --> 1:33:35.760 remember which one it was, but she's been on that 1:33:35.840 --> 1:33:36.559 show for a while. 1:33:37.439 --> 1:33:38.000 That's what's up. 1:33:38.400 --> 1:33:38.840 I saw. 1:33:42.720 --> 1:33:43.639 Disney Channel shows. 1:33:44.040 --> 1:33:45.479 Okay. I always loved that song. 1:33:45.560 --> 1:33:48.519 Man. That that one of them things where it's like, 1:33:48.600 --> 1:33:50.760 you know, I used to you know, I grew up 1:33:50.800 --> 1:33:52.120 listening to del Phonics. 1:33:52.160 --> 1:33:52.280 Man. 1:33:52.280 --> 1:33:54.439 I always wanted to write something like it. It was 1:33:54.479 --> 1:33:56.120 a really great thing too, because I said, you know, 1:33:56.520 --> 1:33:58.400 I'm never gonna do another record like this, so I'm 1:33:58.439 --> 1:33:59.679 just gonna put all kind of shit. 1:34:01.520 --> 1:34:03.519 You wanted to be. I said, that's the great question. 1:34:04.080 --> 1:34:06.559 Why do we have to answer that question? And everybody 1:34:06.640 --> 1:34:08.519 that was on the project, I would call him and say, hey, man, 1:34:08.520 --> 1:34:09.559 come you on this project and say. 1:34:09.479 --> 1:34:10.840 What is I said, I have no fun idea what 1:34:10.960 --> 1:34:11.120 it is? 1:34:11.200 --> 1:34:11.599 Come play? 1:34:13.479 --> 1:34:15.760 You know Bill was Lofkin guitar player who was at 1:34:15.800 --> 1:34:17.920 that time playing with Springsteen. I said, hey, I got 1:34:17.960 --> 1:34:19.600 this song for you to come play. What is it? 1:34:19.880 --> 1:34:22.519 I don't know, just come played on one song. 1:34:22.560 --> 1:34:23.280 And this is great. 1:34:23.320 --> 1:34:24.479 You have the other songs. 1:34:24.479 --> 1:34:25.559 I'm like, yeah, I play on this one. 1:34:26.720 --> 1:34:27.800 Greg villain Gains came in. 1:34:28.840 --> 1:34:29.760 Greg, I need doing this thing. 1:34:29.800 --> 1:34:31.640 He says, what is it? I said, I don't know. 1:34:32.640 --> 1:34:37.120 It's just this thing, and you got another song. And 1:34:37.240 --> 1:34:39.639 we was just like we would make ten minute tracks. 1:34:40.640 --> 1:34:43.760 Every song was ten minutes long. And they said, well 1:34:43.800 --> 1:34:45.200 when we figure what the hell it is, then we 1:34:45.240 --> 1:34:45.960 can whittle it down. 1:34:45.960 --> 1:34:47.680 But we didn't know what it was. Who's going to sing? 1:34:47.720 --> 1:34:48.360 Who's gonna do this? 1:34:48.400 --> 1:34:50.800 We would put these tracks together except for that song, 1:34:50.920 --> 1:34:51.519 Ain't it funny? 1:34:52.040 --> 1:34:52.439 And uh? 1:34:53.560 --> 1:34:58.200 I got Tammy to sing it? And I used, when 1:34:58.320 --> 1:35:01.040 was it? Claire fish who wrote the string whoa? 1:35:01.439 --> 1:35:02.479 Clairefris read the strings? 1:35:02.520 --> 1:35:05.600 Claire Friser bro so Claire raised the string arrangers and 1:35:05.640 --> 1:35:06.760 you know Claire's a hard ass. 1:35:07.120 --> 1:35:11.320 Yes, so he writes the string arrangers, and he has both. 1:35:11.640 --> 1:35:15.960 He has Arco bass, so I'm like, okay, Claire, yeah, 1:35:16.040 --> 1:35:18.800 I don't need the Arco bass because we have a 1:35:18.880 --> 1:35:22.599 bass player playing in the classes with the bass. He's 1:35:22.640 --> 1:35:26.920 so used to doing these productions with these producers that 1:35:27.080 --> 1:35:29.960 don't know shit, so he says, well, why don't you 1:35:30.040 --> 1:35:31.760 come out here and show me the parts that you're 1:35:31.800 --> 1:35:34.400 talking about passive aggressive? 1:35:34.720 --> 1:35:37.320 And I said okay, And I walked out there and. 1:35:37.320 --> 1:35:38.120 I looked at the score. 1:35:38.439 --> 1:35:41.160 I took a pencil. I said from here to here, 1:35:41.280 --> 1:35:43.240 and he says, oh, oh no, it's fine, no problem. 1:35:43.280 --> 1:35:44.759 As soon as he realized I could read. 1:35:44.640 --> 1:35:46.680 The score, he realized you knew what it was. 1:35:46.800 --> 1:35:49.920 Yeah, I didn't have to deal with this ship anymore. 1:35:49.960 --> 1:35:52.200 But he's just he you know, he would like to 1:35:52.400 --> 1:35:55.080 like get these poor producers in there and hire me, 1:35:55.160 --> 1:35:58.800 and he would like humiliate and I'm like, nah, I 1:35:58.920 --> 1:36:01.160 know what I'm talking about here, get the base out 1:36:01.160 --> 1:36:03.400 of there. And he struck the base and yeah, not, 1:36:03.479 --> 1:36:06.040 We're good, you know, And it was a good It's 1:36:06.040 --> 1:36:09.479 a great arrangement, except you know, the bases. But I 1:36:09.680 --> 1:36:11.240 enjoyed that whole project. It was great. 1:36:12.439 --> 1:36:14.560 Yeah, that was I was fifteen in the camp and 1:36:14.640 --> 1:36:16.840 that was like my sophomore year high school when it 1:36:16.920 --> 1:36:17.280 came up. 1:36:19.880 --> 1:36:23.080 You know, no, man, I was not you. 1:36:23.240 --> 1:36:25.800 I'm just telling you, like, like, right man, this record sucks. 1:36:25.840 --> 1:36:27.479 I'm like, yeah, okay, what is it? 1:36:27.840 --> 1:36:31.040 I don't know. That's the good bro. I'm just telling 1:36:31.080 --> 1:36:31.280 you what. 1:36:31.439 --> 1:36:34.400 Happened, right you. You weren't the one. I wasn't talking 1:36:34.439 --> 1:36:40.479 to you. Okay. You have these writers and they say, well, 1:36:40.680 --> 1:36:43.120 there's a rapper on it, so it must be hip hop. 1:36:43.680 --> 1:36:47.400 No it's not right, it's not it's. 1:36:47.320 --> 1:36:49.360 Just like not what you're trying to make it. And 1:36:49.479 --> 1:36:53.479 even on Colombia. Columbia, they they had this meeting with 1:36:53.560 --> 1:36:56.240 them and they said this. You know, it's like they 1:36:56.280 --> 1:36:58.160 have this this is what they do with black people. 1:36:58.240 --> 1:37:01.160 Think so we got a street team out there. I'm like, 1:37:01.200 --> 1:37:03.240 your street team? Are you fucking crazy? This is not 1:37:03.320 --> 1:37:04.160 a street team record. 1:37:04.240 --> 1:37:06.320 No, it's gonna buy it. They're not gonna buy this record. 1:37:06.800 --> 1:37:09.040 And they said, so we have our. 1:37:09.000 --> 1:37:11.680 Street team and we put up stickers. All of us said, 1:37:11.720 --> 1:37:14.160 oh my god, this is not that kind of record. 1:37:14.920 --> 1:37:18.200 But they didn't have a plan B for a black 1:37:18.240 --> 1:37:21.439 person that wasn't making a jazz record. It's like they 1:37:21.520 --> 1:37:24.439 have this machine and they're gonna stick you in the machine, 1:37:24.920 --> 1:37:27.479 and they're gonna put the record in the in the 1:37:27.560 --> 1:37:30.080 hands of DJ's and I'm like, who aren't gonna play it? 1:37:30.439 --> 1:37:32.200 And they're like and they just but they didn't. They 1:37:32.280 --> 1:37:36.200 couldn't conceptualize the idea that they couldn't put it into 1:37:36.280 --> 1:37:38.720 the box that they put all the arts? 1:37:39.439 --> 1:37:41.560 Was it a little better for the second album of 1:37:41.640 --> 1:37:42.880 Music Evolution? Did they get it? 1:37:44.000 --> 1:37:46.519 But by then I was like, Okay, I already know 1:37:46.600 --> 1:37:47.200 what this shit is. 1:37:47.920 --> 1:37:49.599 Yeah, you know what I mean, I'm not even I'm 1:37:49.680 --> 1:37:53.240 just if they try to have a publicity meeting with me, 1:37:53.320 --> 1:37:55.720 I'm just not even gonna attend. Because we had a 1:37:55.800 --> 1:37:58.120 band by then, and we were touring and we were 1:37:58.200 --> 1:38:01.599 having a good time, and we started some of those 1:38:02.000 --> 1:38:04.559 what do they call it jam bands, like String. 1:38:04.400 --> 1:38:09.240 Seasons, Keller Williams Government, you know, we. 1:38:09.280 --> 1:38:10.920 Start playing with these bands and like it was going 1:38:10.960 --> 1:38:11.800 to be its own thing. 1:38:12.520 --> 1:38:14.280 I don't know. I just decided, yeah, I don't know 1:38:14.280 --> 1:38:16.120 if I want to be doing this when I'm fifty. So, 1:38:16.960 --> 1:38:19.280 you know, we got to that last tour Frank wanted 1:38:19.320 --> 1:38:20.840 to go out. The singer wanted to go out and 1:38:20.920 --> 1:38:21.639 do his own thing. 1:38:21.800 --> 1:38:22.599 This is Frank McComb. 1:38:22.640 --> 1:38:26.719 Frank McComb, Frank mccolly, his own thing. The trumpet player, 1:38:27.080 --> 1:38:29.800 Russell Gunn wanted to go do his own thing. So 1:38:29.920 --> 1:38:31.280 it all kind of just I said, well, if y'all 1:38:31.320 --> 1:38:32.519 ain't doing it, I don't. 1:38:32.720 --> 1:38:33.519 I don't even want to do this. 1:38:34.280 --> 1:38:36.439 And were you doing Tonight Show as well around this time? 1:38:37.400 --> 1:38:44.640 I didn't want to ask you questions. I want this 1:38:44.800 --> 1:38:48.840 to be to be Tonight's Show, free interviews. Oh it's fine, 1:38:49.080 --> 1:38:49.560 I was doing it. 1:38:50.120 --> 1:38:52.559 So I was doing it Tonight Show when we were 1:38:52.720 --> 1:38:55.080 producing the first buck Shot record. 1:38:55.479 --> 1:38:58.120 Okay, but I left the show at ninety five. 1:38:58.479 --> 1:39:01.400 I left the show in ninety five tour with the 1:39:01.520 --> 1:39:03.839 band that you know that became Buckshot. 1:39:04.600 --> 1:39:05.120 I can dig it. 1:39:05.600 --> 1:39:08.720 Did you just enjoy that more than doing being on TV? 1:39:09.640 --> 1:39:11.479 I think that, which is what I told you. 1:39:12.080 --> 1:39:15.840 If Tonight Show we're in New York, I probably would 1:39:15.840 --> 1:39:19.640 have stayed. But there's no way living in Los Angeles, 1:39:20.160 --> 1:39:25.320 there was no consistent creative musical outlet. So if I 1:39:25.479 --> 1:39:28.120 was going to stay, I was basically gonna be saying 1:39:28.160 --> 1:39:30.280 that I was giving up playing music because there was 1:39:30.400 --> 1:39:33.560 no place to play and there was no audience for it, 1:39:33.640 --> 1:39:37.519 so we were playing gigs and restaurants. It was just 1:39:37.720 --> 1:39:41.200 really and then and then I could start a feeling 1:39:41.280 --> 1:39:43.800 slipping away. So it really wasn't about the show or 1:39:44.000 --> 1:39:47.120 Jay or any of those other things. It's just my instincts, 1:39:47.960 --> 1:39:51.080 you know. I just it was a simple question. If 1:39:51.120 --> 1:39:52.840 you stay here, you're gonna make a lot of money. 1:39:53.479 --> 1:39:56.640 So is that okay that you make a lot of 1:39:56.720 --> 1:39:59.519 money and you do this show and you cease being 1:39:59.560 --> 1:40:02.519 a function musician on the level that you're accustomed to 1:40:02.680 --> 1:40:05.560 on the and the and the answer was no. But 1:40:05.680 --> 1:40:07.120 if it had been in New York, where I could 1:40:07.120 --> 1:40:09.920 go still like play gigs at night and keep my 1:40:10.000 --> 1:40:11.760 chops up and keep that whole music and get that 1:40:11.920 --> 1:40:16.000 musical input. But it is a very isolating place. It's 1:40:16.000 --> 1:40:17.840 a very isolating place. So I was really excited for 1:40:17.880 --> 1:40:20.920 you all, especially when Jimmy was gonna move to New York. 1:40:20.960 --> 1:40:22.720 I'm like, oh, this is great, man. You get to be, 1:40:23.320 --> 1:40:24.920 you know, in the city, and you can play gigs 1:40:24.960 --> 1:40:25.920 afterwards if you want to. 1:40:25.920 --> 1:40:29.120 Do that, you're around. He wanted to come to l 1:40:29.160 --> 1:40:33.559 a for a second what they were they were trying 1:40:33.600 --> 1:40:35.960 to consider it, like maybere'd you go to l A. 1:40:37.360 --> 1:40:40.679 But that's when the other that's when the other Jimmy 1:40:40.800 --> 1:40:42.519 was starting to pick up some heat. 1:40:43.439 --> 1:40:44.720 Ah got you. 1:40:45.439 --> 1:40:46.120 You didn't want to do it. 1:40:46.520 --> 1:40:50.439 You've done everything I forgot. You're on Chinese's like, I 1:40:50.560 --> 1:40:51.480 love your smile. 1:40:52.920 --> 1:40:55.960 All this shit. So I get paid for that ship 1:40:56.040 --> 1:40:58.840 either Noda got you? 1:40:59.240 --> 1:41:03.760 Damn man, I don't really care because all out what 1:41:03.880 --> 1:41:05.280 I got was like two undred fifty bucks. 1:41:05.280 --> 1:41:08.240 Anyway, right, He's like, you know, you're like, do you 1:41:08.360 --> 1:41:11.320 know the union rate? Whatever it was you need whatever 1:41:12.120 --> 1:41:12.599 we were playing. 1:41:12.640 --> 1:41:15.720 We're playing a gig at this jazz club Caesars East 1:41:15.720 --> 1:41:17.720 in Memoryville, and Narady came to the gigs Man, I 1:41:17.800 --> 1:41:20.639 need you to play on this too. I went, okay, yeah, 1:41:20.760 --> 1:41:23.439 sure when tonight. I'm like, bro, come on, He goes. 1:41:23.320 --> 1:41:28.240 Please creaking singer Shitise Wilson, it's gonna be a big hit, said, 1:41:28.240 --> 1:41:29.519 I don't care if it's gonna be a big hit. 1:41:29.560 --> 1:41:30.599 Man, I don't want to get to sleep. 1:41:31.080 --> 1:41:32.479 He said, man, can you assus that? Fine? 1:41:32.560 --> 1:41:35.160 So we went over the bridge to Marine County, where 1:41:35.200 --> 1:41:38.439 his crib was and he said, this is her rough track, 1:41:38.560 --> 1:41:40.880 and I played at the rough time. I never met her. 1:41:41.479 --> 1:41:45.000 Oh okay, never met her. I thought you negotiated that 1:41:45.120 --> 1:41:47.920 shout out, so you know, no, I asked him not 1:41:48.040 --> 1:41:48.360 to do it. 1:41:49.360 --> 1:41:50.000 He said wow. 1:41:50.120 --> 1:41:52.080 He said, yeah, man, I'm gonna get it to say 1:41:52.120 --> 1:41:54.200 blow brand for go. I said, please don't do that because, okay, 1:41:54.240 --> 1:41:54.839 I won't. 1:41:58.000 --> 1:42:03.640 Comes out. I'm like, no, I knew it was. I 1:42:03.720 --> 1:42:05.720 knew everywhere I went I was gonna hear that. 1:42:11.280 --> 1:42:12.160 First Miss bell Air. 1:42:12.240 --> 1:42:17.439 His cameo, oh yeah, I forgot. Yeah, well we were 1:42:17.439 --> 1:42:20.080 in the same studio. That's what made it work. Oh okay, 1:42:21.240 --> 1:42:22.559 that's right, NBC. I forgot. 1:42:24.280 --> 1:42:27.479 Was there a collaboration opportunity that was presented to you 1:42:27.600 --> 1:42:30.560 that you couldn't do that wound up being something significant? 1:42:31.600 --> 1:42:35.840 Not that I can think of, Okay, okay, like what 1:42:36.200 --> 1:42:38.639 I don't even know, like no, no, no, I just meant. 1:42:38.600 --> 1:42:41.920 Like a chance to do like a I don't know, 1:42:42.160 --> 1:42:44.879 playing on a track called quest record, Like someone requesting 1:42:44.960 --> 1:42:47.720 you to do something and you weren't able to do 1:42:47.800 --> 1:42:50.719 it because of scheduling reasons they were they would never. 1:42:51.240 --> 1:42:55.360 No, okay, I don't think that, man, Yo, So I 1:42:55.439 --> 1:42:57.559 didn't realize have you and Dave Matthews done anymore? 1:42:57.600 --> 1:42:59.479 Because I saw that you would play. 1:43:00.000 --> 1:43:02.479 It was a live version of Loverly Down, which was 1:43:02.560 --> 1:43:04.960 like one of my favorite Dave Matthew songs. 1:43:05.160 --> 1:43:06.000 We did that in rally. 1:43:06.520 --> 1:43:09.960 But yeah, well, you know Jeff Coffin, the guy who 1:43:10.000 --> 1:43:12.519 pleted the saxophone player in the band. Yeah, I guess 1:43:12.840 --> 1:43:15.519 h Leroy really liked me. I didn't really get to 1:43:15.600 --> 1:43:18.120 know Larroy that well. The one time that they played 1:43:18.120 --> 1:43:20.519 in New York, They're playing at Jones Beach and I 1:43:20.600 --> 1:43:22.760 want to take my son, so they're like, come sit 1:43:22.840 --> 1:43:24.639 in with the band. I said, nah, my son's ten, 1:43:24.840 --> 1:43:26.240 We're just gonna go to a concert. And they have 1:43:26.479 --> 1:43:29.360 like a you know, falling sun night out. Go hear 1:43:29.400 --> 1:43:31.519 the music, you know. And then I wrote them a 1:43:31.600 --> 1:43:33.680 nice letter because they hooked up the tickets and I 1:43:33.720 --> 1:43:35.120 wrote them a nice letter to the man in the 1:43:35.200 --> 1:43:36.600 saying thanks. It was great, you know. 1:43:37.200 --> 1:43:39.599 And the next time I come play, and then Leroy 1:43:39.720 --> 1:43:42.000 had that weird ATV accident and died. 1:43:42.160 --> 1:43:45.040 It was wild. But I know Jeff Coffin really well, 1:43:45.600 --> 1:43:47.200 so Jeff will call me and say, hey, man, the 1:43:47.240 --> 1:43:49.720 guys want you to come play, and I'm like going, shit, okay, yeah, 1:43:50.400 --> 1:43:52.639 sim Rawley, that's forty minute drive from me, so I'll 1:43:52.680 --> 1:43:53.080 come through. 1:43:53.680 --> 1:43:55.360 And then it just started to do they say, hey, 1:43:55.400 --> 1:43:56.240 can you make this gig? 1:43:56.320 --> 1:43:58.240 And you do this? And you know, yeah, anytime I 1:43:58.280 --> 1:43:59.840 could do it, I'm happy to do it. That was 1:44:00.320 --> 1:44:02.120 I mean, it's a great band. I love the band 1:44:02.280 --> 1:44:04.360 so and they write great songs. 1:44:05.320 --> 1:44:08.200 How how long does it take you, especially when you're 1:44:08.360 --> 1:44:11.080 doing a Dead and Company or even when you were 1:44:11.120 --> 1:44:15.519 doing Grateful Dead. Their catalog is so damn expansive. How 1:44:15.560 --> 1:44:18.040 long does it take you to study that? Or like 1:44:18.120 --> 1:44:19.519 did they just tell you to get in where you 1:44:19.560 --> 1:44:21.120 fit in? Or like how does that work? 1:44:21.160 --> 1:44:23.120 And I do? Then I go in to play and 1:44:23.160 --> 1:44:25.280 they just they call that something like unlike a lot 1:44:25.320 --> 1:44:27.880 of men. Those guys used to just call the songs 1:44:27.920 --> 1:44:31.240 on the stage. They didn't have any set list. I 1:44:31.280 --> 1:44:34.559 would always kind of you lay back in the first 1:44:35.240 --> 1:44:37.960 churse I wouldn't play, And I was learning the form, 1:44:38.479 --> 1:44:42.320 learning the forum and listening to the ideas that they 1:44:42.400 --> 1:44:44.439 play in the little motifs and where can I play 1:44:44.439 --> 1:44:45.200 and where is it fit in? 1:44:45.280 --> 1:44:48.000 So then on the second course, if I can get 1:44:48.040 --> 1:44:49.360 in there. I'll get in there, and if I can't, 1:44:49.439 --> 1:44:50.200 I just won't play. 1:44:51.120 --> 1:44:54.160 I see, man, I want to know. I want you 1:44:54.240 --> 1:44:56.559 to talk about your time a Central. That's my alma 1:44:56.600 --> 1:45:00.400 mad I graduated in one. What brought you this Central? 1:45:00.520 --> 1:45:02.400 And what is the climate? 1:45:02.640 --> 1:45:02.680 Like? 1:45:03.040 --> 1:45:05.360 You know you're talking earlier about all the gospel players. 1:45:05.840 --> 1:45:07.559 It was very much like that when I was there 1:45:07.840 --> 1:45:09.320 as well. Everybody came out of church. 1:45:09.640 --> 1:45:10.360 What's it like now? 1:45:10.720 --> 1:45:13.800 They're great? I mean this some of the most. I 1:45:13.880 --> 1:45:16.519 mean there's some of the most. They're just great. They're 1:45:16.560 --> 1:45:20.920 just great kids, and they're not ambitious. And that's perfect 1:45:20.960 --> 1:45:23.200 for me because when you go to those regular music schools, 1:45:23.240 --> 1:45:25.960 so many of the musicians are ambitious. You know. 1:45:26.120 --> 1:45:28.639 Like we had a situation where one of our students 1:45:29.880 --> 1:45:30.639 had some problems. 1:45:31.760 --> 1:45:34.519 She had to go to the hospital, and all of 1:45:34.560 --> 1:45:38.000 the kids start texting and saying, you know, we need 1:45:38.080 --> 1:45:40.000 to go to the hospital. We need to be with 1:45:40.080 --> 1:45:43.360 our girl. I mean, men, men, the whole thing. Everybody, 1:45:43.439 --> 1:45:45.599 when you're gonna tell me when you go into the hospital, 1:45:46.800 --> 1:45:48.720 like that happened at Berkeley, they'd be like, well, yeah, 1:45:48.720 --> 1:45:49.120 that's too. 1:45:49.080 --> 1:45:49.920 Bad, you know. 1:45:50.080 --> 1:45:52.120 Yeah, So what time is the hit? I mean it 1:45:52.280 --> 1:45:54.800 was just like a whole different kind of thing, you know, 1:45:54.920 --> 1:45:58.880 the uh we uh Joy Calgarazzo and I went to 1:45:58.960 --> 1:46:01.000 this restaurant and they were a lot of the singers 1:46:01.040 --> 1:46:02.800 from the vocal on some and so, what are y'all 1:46:02.800 --> 1:46:05.360 doing this? Because of COVID, we can't meet the freshmen, 1:46:05.439 --> 1:46:07.960 so we just meet him here and we sit around. 1:46:08.200 --> 1:46:11.320 So you got upperclassmen needing freshmens to just have lunch 1:46:11.400 --> 1:46:15.720 with them because they can't be together under the normal circumstance. 1:46:16.080 --> 1:46:19.080 So I just love the camaraderie and the energy. I mean, 1:46:19.200 --> 1:46:22.400 it's it's it's it's an amazing place. Ara Wiggins runs 1:46:22.439 --> 1:46:23.280 the program and eat. 1:46:23.520 --> 1:46:24.680 Yeah it was there when I was there. 1:46:25.040 --> 1:46:27.599 Yeah, so Wiggans, you know, he's my boss. 1:46:27.680 --> 1:46:30.160 So I mean, they've just set up such a great 1:46:31.120 --> 1:46:34.679 environment there and the kids are really curious and really smart, 1:46:35.080 --> 1:46:39.000 and some of them are super talented too, you know, 1:46:39.200 --> 1:46:41.560 and they just use the material and then move on 1:46:41.680 --> 1:46:42.519 and do other things. 1:46:43.680 --> 1:46:45.920 Do you have to have the talk with you know, 1:46:46.080 --> 1:46:48.439 being who you are, do you have to kind of 1:46:48.479 --> 1:46:50.640 have that talk with the students? Like I watched the 1:46:51.479 --> 1:46:54.920 actually a elling like master class he was doing where 1:46:55.000 --> 1:46:57.000 he just told the kids straight up. He was like, look, 1:46:57.080 --> 1:46:58.760 this is not your big break, Like, we ain't here 1:46:58.840 --> 1:47:01.600 for that. Do you have to do something similar with 1:47:01.720 --> 1:47:04.040 the kids now? So do they understand this education and 1:47:04.200 --> 1:47:07.240 not I'm trying to get on impress Branford. 1:47:07.640 --> 1:47:09.880 Yeah, you know, it's different. It's a different thing because 1:47:10.000 --> 1:47:11.120 it's not a masterclass. 1:47:11.680 --> 1:47:14.760 I mean, I'm there, they see me all the time, 1:47:14.840 --> 1:47:16.600 and I dog them when they first get there, so 1:47:16.640 --> 1:47:17.760 I scared the hell out of them. 1:47:18.160 --> 1:47:20.759 So it takes them almost a whole year to figure 1:47:20.760 --> 1:47:22.080 out that I was just fucking with him. 1:47:25.000 --> 1:47:27.200 You know, the upper clansmen know what it is because 1:47:27.200 --> 1:47:29.720 they went through I don't say nothing, and the kids 1:47:29.760 --> 1:47:31.320 are scared down, egg shells and. 1:47:31.360 --> 1:47:32.920 All of it, you know. 1:47:33.000 --> 1:47:36.760 And then eventually they realized, man, he's just playing me. 1:47:37.280 --> 1:47:40.679 So then the whole thing it opens up and it's cool, 1:47:41.240 --> 1:47:43.000 you know, it opens up and it's cool. But yeah, 1:47:43.520 --> 1:47:46.599 it's uh. I take it very seriously, and I kid 1:47:46.640 --> 1:47:47.200 around with him. 1:47:47.200 --> 1:47:48.560 We joke. I mean, we have a good time, but 1:47:48.640 --> 1:47:51.639 it's a serious thing and it's more about thought process, 1:47:51.920 --> 1:47:53.720 Like I don't even really want to hear him play, 1:47:54.520 --> 1:47:56.840 you know. And once they and I told him, I said, 1:47:56.840 --> 1:47:59.080 the lessons ain't gonna get good till it ain't about playing. 1:47:59.720 --> 1:48:03.120 And what the upper classmen do is because they are 1:48:03.160 --> 1:48:04.120 half hour lessons. 1:48:04.600 --> 1:48:06.679 You know, before COVID, there would be half hour lesson 1:48:06.720 --> 1:48:10.559 starting at ten thirty, So three people would sign up 1:48:10.640 --> 1:48:14.280 for ten thirty, eleven, and eleven thirty, and then it 1:48:14.360 --> 1:48:16.160 would all come at ten thirty and we would just 1:48:16.200 --> 1:48:16.959 play music. 1:48:16.760 --> 1:48:17.880 And talk for an hour and a half. 1:48:18.840 --> 1:48:21.479 Wow, gotcha, you know so, and then it became this 1:48:21.560 --> 1:48:25.080 thing where the lesson wasn't your private lesson. It was 1:48:25.200 --> 1:48:28.760 like a class that other students were monitoring you. And 1:48:29.400 --> 1:48:31.400 sometimes people just come in to check out the lesson. 1:48:31.439 --> 1:48:33.640 I'm like, yeah, come on in. And then some of 1:48:33.680 --> 1:48:36.360 the students would say, well, you know, man, I didn't 1:48:36.360 --> 1:48:37.560 think he was going to be I said, man, you 1:48:37.640 --> 1:48:40.000 want to play for people for a livid you better 1:48:40.040 --> 1:48:41.120 get used to the idea. 1:48:40.920 --> 1:48:43.040 Of criticizing you and checking you out and all this 1:48:43.160 --> 1:48:46.120 other shit. You know, you don't have secret lessons. I mean, 1:48:46.160 --> 1:48:48.479 it was the big deal you bad at something. 1:48:48.520 --> 1:48:51.000 Shit, what's wrong with him knowing? And then they're like 1:48:51.040 --> 1:48:53.640 all right, cool, yeah, so you have kids coming and 1:48:53.720 --> 1:48:55.760 sitting on other kids lessons this is a great it's 1:48:55.760 --> 1:48:56.599 a great situation. 1:48:57.120 --> 1:48:57.640 That's what's up. 1:48:57.680 --> 1:48:57.760 Man. 1:48:57.880 --> 1:49:00.320 See, I'm waiting for a black version of which Lash 1:49:00.400 --> 1:49:01.439 to come out in the movies. 1:49:06.160 --> 1:49:08.559 You had an experience like the experience in Whippers. 1:49:08.600 --> 1:49:10.800 I said, no, I'd beat it if he touched me. 1:49:10.920 --> 1:49:17.080 Like the writer was like, he was like, really, trust me, 1:49:17.400 --> 1:49:17.760 trust me. 1:49:19.840 --> 1:49:20.759 They get me in the class. 1:49:21.479 --> 1:49:23.200 Yeah, it's happening. 1:49:23.640 --> 1:49:25.120 It's going down well. 1:49:25.280 --> 1:49:27.120 I mean, but do you come from a place where 1:49:27.960 --> 1:49:31.920 you feel like this generation might be too used to 1:49:32.040 --> 1:49:33.600 praise and but. 1:49:33.680 --> 1:49:36.320 I don't care. I guess they are used to praise, 1:49:36.400 --> 1:49:38.720 but I don't care. I mean, so you don't use 1:49:38.760 --> 1:49:42.560 the tough teacher approach like or to the to the 1:49:42.640 --> 1:49:47.240 JK approach. They would call it a tough teacher okay, 1:49:47.680 --> 1:49:50.000 like throwing ship and all of that. But I'm not 1:49:50.000 --> 1:49:52.439 gonna throw something on it. They suck, they suck. I 1:49:52.600 --> 1:49:54.240 just tell him they suck. But I'm gonna tell him 1:49:54.240 --> 1:49:56.840 why they suck. I'm not gonna sit there. It's not 1:49:56.960 --> 1:49:57.800 like I'm gonna have to. 1:49:58.080 --> 1:49:58.360 I'm not. 1:49:58.479 --> 1:50:01.719 I'm not trying to establish my dominance over you because 1:50:02.200 --> 1:50:05.040 I don't have this deep tragic thing where I was 1:50:05.080 --> 1:50:07.640 on a bandstand and I was humiliated. So I'm going 1:50:07.720 --> 1:50:10.599 to act that on on every student that psycho trauma 1:50:10.680 --> 1:50:13.640 that you know JK. Simmons character had. Then they've been 1:50:13.720 --> 1:50:18.200 my experience. Oh okay, okay, it's not been my experience, No, band, 1:50:18.880 --> 1:50:21.800 I appreciate it. And you know I've been dying for 1:50:21.880 --> 1:50:24.840 this moment. But I know that you hate when cats 1:50:24.920 --> 1:50:29.040 be nerd out on you. I do, you know, every 1:50:29.120 --> 1:50:31.519 second of the day, so I really appreciate you taking. 1:50:31.360 --> 1:50:34.000 The time out. I appreciate you. Thanks for inviting me 1:50:34.280 --> 1:50:35.120 to speak to me. 1:50:35.240 --> 1:50:36.479 No, thank thank you man. 1:50:36.520 --> 1:50:38.920 And just as a as a as a central graduate man, 1:50:39.000 --> 1:50:41.040 it really means a lot that you're like, you know, 1:50:41.240 --> 1:50:42.880 at my university, man, like. 1:50:42.920 --> 1:50:47.280 That can't imagine being nowhere else. It's awesome. 1:50:47.439 --> 1:50:54.240 Well on behalf of unpaid bill Sugar, Steve uh bigelow uh. 1:50:54.800 --> 1:50:58.240 This quest Love with the great Grandpa Marcellus Quest Love 1:50:58.280 --> 1:51:00.320 Supreme and we will see one of the next around. 1:51:00.400 --> 1:51:04.000 Thank you very much. Yo. 1:51:04.120 --> 1:51:05.160 What's up? This is Sponte. 1:51:05.640 --> 1:51:07.840 Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at 1:51:07.960 --> 1:51:10.280 QLs and let us know what you think we should 1:51:10.280 --> 1:51:11.320 be next to sit down with us. 1:51:11.600 --> 1:51:14.759 Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast all Right Peace. 1:51:20.640 --> 1:51:23.480 What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. 1:51:26.720 --> 1:51:31.120 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 1:51:31.560 --> 1:51:33.280 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.