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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. What's Up.

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Speaker 2: It's June and that means it's Black Music Month, and

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Speaker 2: every year on Questlove Supreme and now The Quest Love Show,

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Speaker 2: we honor it by bringing you an episode every day

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Speaker 2: that celebrates black music, it's history and its impact. My

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Speaker 2: team and I have selected episodes from our archive that

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Speaker 2: we feel are specially relevant to the celebration, offering history,

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Speaker 2: insight and.

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Speaker 3: A little fun along the way.

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Speaker 2: So be on the lookout for four brand new episodes

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Speaker 2: throughout June, each connected to the past, president future of

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Speaker 2: black music.

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Speaker 3: We're going to highlight.

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Speaker 2: Trail blazers, innovators, cultural conduits, and revolutionaries whose word continues

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Speaker 2: to shape.

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Speaker 1: The world around us. Happy June, Happy Black Music Month.

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Speaker 3: Yo Yo, what's up?

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Speaker 1: Y'alli?

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Speaker 3: Is Fonte Fontigelow with this week's K Classic. Back in

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Speaker 3: December twenty.

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Speaker 4: Twenty, we interview my man jazz legend Branford Marcellus. You're

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Speaker 4: gonna hear me laughing a lot in this episode because

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Speaker 4: Brandon is the rat. He holds nothing back, he don't

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Speaker 4: sugarcoat shit, and he is also wrapping my alma mater,

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Speaker 4: ncc go filand the City University Eagle pride up in

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Speaker 4: this thing. We have Overlappentie and this is just a

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Speaker 4: guy that I truly just love and just admire his work.

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Speaker 4: And we had a great time in this episode. Y'all

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Speaker 4: enjoyed it?

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Speaker 2: All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of

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Speaker 2: Quest Love Supreme, your host Quest Love.

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Speaker 1: We have Teams Supreme with us. We're right heelers. So

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Speaker 1: this was he quieter episode, like he is on vacation.

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Speaker 3: He took us.

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Speaker 4: He's taking a pandemic vacation, a pandemic pandemication.

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Speaker 1: All right, so we got a sugar Steve and I

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Speaker 1: paid Bill.

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Speaker 5: How's going live from the street.

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Speaker 2: I saw your anniversary photo on Sesame Street today on Twitter,

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Speaker 2: So congratulations.

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Speaker 3: Or made congratulations on.

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Speaker 5: Eleven.

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Speaker 2: Dang oh year eleven for you, but fifty for the

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Speaker 2: institution of Sesame Street.

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Speaker 6: I get it.

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Speaker 7: I said before that I hadn't held a job for

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Speaker 7: like fifty hours, so it's good I can have that one.

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Speaker 2: Well, bruh, I'm proud of you. I'm super proud of you,

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Speaker 2: ladies and gentlemen. Uh, what can I say? Our guests

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Speaker 2: really doesn't need any introduction, but he's so legendary. You know,

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Speaker 2: this gentleman is part of one of the probably one

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Speaker 2: of the most important musical dynasties music, second to the Jacksons.

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Speaker 1: Yo, I mean yo, man, accept your flowers, yo.

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Speaker 2: Like no cat, no cat, real takey flowers right now.

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Speaker 2: He's trying to stop me already, you know. Saxophonist, Uh,

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Speaker 2: jazz historian, hip hop aficionado, actor, late night band leader, composer, conductor, scorer, everything. Uh,

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Speaker 2: this this, this, this man is a true renaissance gentlemen.

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Speaker 2: We're very honored to have him on the show. Please

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Speaker 2: welcome be great brand from Marcellos to Quest lof Supreme.

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Speaker 1: Sir, Yes, how's it? Where are you right now? North Carolina?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Okay, you're right round the way from me. I'm in Raleigh. Wow,

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Speaker 3: all right, I didn't know if you were still in

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Speaker 3: the area. I saw you. I think we saw each other.

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Speaker 4: It was on a flight. This has been like pre

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Speaker 4: rona times we saw you on a flight and run

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Speaker 4: it to you for real.

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Speaker 3: Right, But that's what's up.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So you're you're still at You're teaching at NC

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Speaker 2: State Central.

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 6: How many?

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Speaker 1: How many?

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Speaker 5: I one day?

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Speaker 2: I want I want someone to properly explained to me.

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Speaker 2: All the North Carolina institutions.

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Speaker 6: North Carolina State is in Raleigh, is an engineering school

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Speaker 6: in the triangle alone, I think we have.

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Speaker 1: Three HBCUs, Shaw, Saint All and NCCU.

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Speaker 2: Yes, North Carolina Central. I see, And how how long

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Speaker 2: you've been at North Carolina Central?

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Speaker 1: Since two thousand and five?

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Speaker 6: I think?

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Speaker 1: And what are you teaching there right now? Music?

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Speaker 5: That's economics right right?

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Speaker 6: You know, it's actually more of a philosophy course than

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Speaker 6: anything else. It's not really a course, it's just how

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Speaker 6: to think in musical terms.

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Speaker 1: That's cool, Okay.

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Speaker 2: Since since you've been there for fifteen years, do you

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Speaker 2: find is it harder each increasing year to get people

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Speaker 2: to understand a point of view of music that might

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Speaker 2: have seemed easier, say when if you were teaching a

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Speaker 2: class of like say nineteen ninety six, nineteen ninety seven,

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Speaker 2: that's closer to the music that you were involved in,

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Speaker 2: as opposed to dealing with gen Z in their way

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Speaker 2: of life?

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Speaker 1: Or are they teaching you? There was a point where

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Speaker 1: I was teaching.

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Speaker 2: My students, and then the last year of school, I

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Speaker 2: slowly realized, oh, they're teaching me, And that was scary

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Speaker 2: to me, right, but it's.

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Speaker 6: Always in exchange. I teach them more than that they

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Speaker 6: teach me. But almost all of the kids that are

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Speaker 6: at the school are from the North Carolina area, and

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Speaker 6: they all basically come out of the church. Okay, so

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Speaker 6: their exposure to jazz per se is when they get

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Speaker 6: to the school. Can grow up playing jazz and grow

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Speaker 6: up listening to it.

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Speaker 1: And I enjoy that.

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Speaker 6: I enjoy that. And the goal is not to create

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Speaker 6: jazz musicians, but to use jazz's kind of a template

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Speaker 6: to develop a thought process regardless of what style of

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Speaker 6: music you end up playing. Most of our students that

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Speaker 6: are doing well don't play jazz.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's okay with you. No, I'm horrified. It's terrible.

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Speaker 3: What what's hard fining about it?

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Speaker 1: What making I'm learning every bit.

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Speaker 6: What I did for twenty years of my life. No,

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Speaker 6: I can't.

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Speaker 1: I get that. But people arrive at a different place

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Speaker 1: in their life at different points in our life. And no,

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Speaker 1: but I'm at a different place in my life. Okay.

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Speaker 6: It doesn't mean that everybody else needs to be in

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Speaker 6: a place.

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Speaker 1: Where I am. All Right, I got to ask the

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Speaker 1: hard questions I.

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Speaker 6: Was talking to the students today, and it was about that.

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Speaker 6: It was about like how I'm like, I'm sixty now,

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Speaker 6: so I don't listen to the same music that I

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Speaker 6: did when I was thirty, and I definitely would listen

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Speaker 6: to it in the same way, Okay, And the idea,

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Speaker 6: and the idea isn't a question of liking or hating.

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Speaker 6: It's just just like, at various points of your life,

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Speaker 6: without gradually knowing it, without knowing it, you very gradually

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Speaker 6: just move away from things.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that you hate them, you just just

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Speaker 1: move away from it.

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Speaker 4: What's an example of something you listen to, say, when

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Speaker 4: you were thirty, and you listen to now and you

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Speaker 4: hear it in a different way. What's different about it?

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Speaker 1: Oh? No, it depends on what it is. Okay.

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Speaker 6: If I'm listening to like one of those old show

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Speaker 6: biz in ag records, yess r, it sounds like it

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Speaker 6: did then. I mean, it's not like, oh no, oh,

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Speaker 6: I didn't never heard that before, you know, or one

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Speaker 6: of like Premier's records, or just stuff that I was around,

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Speaker 6: you know, Public Enemy or KRS. Just that whole style,

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Speaker 6: Like what is hip hop now? It's like vastly different

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Speaker 6: in general from what it was back then. Oh, you

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Speaker 6: got to tell me right now, this is a whole

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Speaker 6: different kind of thing. So when I hear it, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 6: it brings me back to that time, and I enjoy it,

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Speaker 6: but like like unlike a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of my friends from high school, and they openly tease

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Speaker 1: me about it, and I tease them. I am the

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Speaker 1: person least likely that listens to listen to seventies classic.

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Speaker 6: R and B radio.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you know I did that, and I was there

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Speaker 1: and I loved it, and then I move on to

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Speaker 1: this other thing and I.

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Speaker 6: Keep moving forward, even if the music is one hundred

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Speaker 6: years old is new to me. I get exposed to

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Speaker 6: things and I try not to. And it's not like

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Speaker 6: I'm cool with nostalgia. If it comes on, I'm gonna

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Speaker 6: listen to it and go, man, I love that, but

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Speaker 6: I'm not going to actively put that on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the playlist, like culture now, the way

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Speaker 4: people consume me music has really kind of made that

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Speaker 4: even more pronounced because now there's really no such thing

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Speaker 4: as music. There's no such thing as old music or

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Speaker 4: new music. It's just either you know it or you don't.

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Speaker 4: So if I'm listening to a playlist and it's a

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Speaker 4: song on there from twenty fifteen. I don't know, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean. I could have been yesterday, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: And I guess the temptation to not go to your

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Speaker 2: default place, Like right now, I'm really trying to force

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Speaker 2: myself to not go to the playlist I curate, because

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna I fall in a rabbit hole of just

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Speaker 2: the stuff that I'm used to And you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to discover new music and I'm kind of running

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Speaker 2: the wells getting a little dry right now.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know.

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Speaker 2: There's a few friends that I trust in their playlist

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Speaker 2: and I'll sneaker on their spotify is to see what

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Speaker 2: they got, and you know, I might discover like five

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Speaker 2: or six new songs I have. But now that the

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Speaker 2: wells getting dry, like the temptation to just not go

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Speaker 2: to my default comfort zone is that's a scary thing now,

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Speaker 2: Like I'm running out of mute that I don't know about,

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Speaker 2: and that's that's a scary thing to me because I

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Speaker 2: know there's much more out there.

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Speaker 4: What's the difference. I'll be curious to know. Branth or

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Speaker 4: your take on what is the difference between music? What

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Speaker 4: would you say is the difference between music that is

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Speaker 4: challenging versus something that you just don't like, you know

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Speaker 4: what I mean? Like Amir was talking about, you know,

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Speaker 4: kind of getting out of your comfort zone. But where

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Speaker 4: is that line for you between Okay, this is something

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Speaker 4: that's challenging me a little bit versus this is just

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Speaker 4: something that I just ain't I ain't really rocking with.

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Speaker 6: Well, for me, the musicians have to sound like they're

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Speaker 6: interacting with one another for me to like it. I

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Speaker 6: can kind of tell when records are kind of produced

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Speaker 6: in a way that one track was done on Wednesday

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Speaker 6: and another track.

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Speaker 1: Was done on Thursday. A lot of records are productions

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Speaker 1: now right.

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Speaker 6: All you have to do is put on just about

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Speaker 6: any record in any style from the sixties and compare

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Speaker 6: it to now. And there's an organic energy in those

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Speaker 6: records because it was human beings in a room.

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Speaker 1: That's the stuff that I prefer to listen to.

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Speaker 6: But I don't really I don't really get with the like,

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Speaker 6: you know, like I don't hear things and go, oh

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Speaker 6: you know, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't like that.

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Speaker 6: I'll listen to it first and then go, yeah, that's

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Speaker 6: not my thing. But challenging music is interesting because it

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Speaker 6: goes against kind of the tenets of popular culture. Because

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Speaker 6: if it's something that's really challenging, really good, your first

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Speaker 6: instinct is not to like it.

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Speaker 1: You have to grow to like it. And we don't

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Speaker 1: usually give music that much time.

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Speaker 6: You know, It's not like it's like it's not like, yeah,

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Speaker 6: this shit sucks, I'm gonna put it on tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: It's like, no, it sucks. After that first listen, it

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Speaker 3: is over.

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Speaker 2: I mean, but sometimes I mean I might, I might

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Speaker 2: get fomo. There will be something like I'll give an example.

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Speaker 2: When the Chronic came out. I hated the Chronic right

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Speaker 2: and I said, Yo, this shit sucks, man, hate this ship,

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Speaker 2: and but I have FOMO because everyone else had this

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Speaker 2: whole fifty million Elvis fans can't be wrong.

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Speaker 1: And I felt like, well, what does it mean that's

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Speaker 1: not accepting it?

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Speaker 2: And I realized that, you know, sonically, doctor Dre was

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Speaker 2: taking I wanted my hip hop dirty and nasty and

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Speaker 2: kind of like this amateurist uh DIY thing, and he

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Speaker 2: just made it sound so clean that you know, it

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Speaker 2: took me a good decade to really open up and

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Speaker 2: accept that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is a really great piece of work.

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Speaker 6: So it's a lot different than the East Coast sound.

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Speaker 1: It really well at that time it was, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was I wasn't used to that cleaning cleanliness. You know, Hey,

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Speaker 1: where do you where do you fall in your you're brewed?

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Speaker 1: And and your brothers? Where do you? Are you the top?

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Speaker 1: You're the oldest? Okay?

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Speaker 2: So what the question we start with as far as

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Speaker 2: like your musical discovery, do you remember the first album

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Speaker 2: you ever purchased?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I remember the first two albums ever, pardon what is it?

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Speaker 6: The Elton ghen record called Honky Chateau and a record

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Speaker 6: by Shawn called The Big Bamboo Smokys told?

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Speaker 3: Is that the one with Mona Lisa's and Manhatters on it?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 6: Maybe it did, bablay that's the one with a Honky

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Speaker 6: Cat on Okay, okay, wait, maybe Mona Lisas is on

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Speaker 6: that record.

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Speaker 1: Maybe Mona Lisa's is on that record?

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Speaker 4: Well, okay, you'll cover that. That was the first time

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Speaker 4: I ever heard that song, Ireat.

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Speaker 6: It's like one of them things for when I heard

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Speaker 6: it as a kid. I said, one day, when I

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Speaker 6: make a record, I'm going to record this song. And

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Speaker 6: thirty years later we were sitting there with Premier said, man,

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Speaker 6: what are we gonna do? I said, I got an idea.

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Speaker 6: I want to do this song. I'll been wanting to

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Speaker 6: do it since I was ten. Yeah, we kind of

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Speaker 6: sketched out there, you know, the arrangement of it, and

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Speaker 6: it was, you know, it probably is, you know, I

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Speaker 6: don't that's a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 6: I know the songs, but I don't remember. And I

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Speaker 6: had so many eton genre records, I don't know which

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Speaker 6: ones was on.

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Speaker 1: Which release is on that side too? Yeah, side too

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Speaker 1: of that? Oh it's on side to Honky Chateau. Thank you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good record, man. But those are the first

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Speaker 1: two records I have a bok.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well this I guess I'm just going to dive

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Speaker 2: in the fire. I was shocked because, you know, I

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Speaker 2: guess the perception that most people have of anyone that

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Speaker 2: comes from the Marcella's household is that you guys were

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Speaker 2: intravenously breathing, sleeping, and eating anything jazz and nothing else.

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Speaker 1: At least, that was the kind of perception that most

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Speaker 1: of us have had.

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Speaker 6: About That's fair enough because I mean a lot of

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Speaker 6: people when you decided to play something that's not popular,

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Speaker 6: people try to try to invent an explanation for why

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Speaker 6: that is.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you know, they've been doing it since they were kids.

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Speaker 6: I hated jazz when I was a kid, just did

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Speaker 6: not like it at all. Okay, went and started digging

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Speaker 6: it when he was about twelve, and I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 6: that's nice, man, keep listening to that shit if you

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Speaker 6: want to. Yeah, you know that was My dad was

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Speaker 6: a jazz musician. He was like, you know, to me,

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Speaker 6: no different than the dude. You know, some dads some

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Speaker 6: moms are lawyers, some moms some dads of carpenters. My

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Speaker 6: dad played music, you know, and it wasn't like, oh, jazz,

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Speaker 6: you know. My dad would put on these jazz records.

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Speaker 1: I leave the room. So he tried to force like

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Speaker 1: King Oliver on you guys, and it's just like, I.

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Speaker 6: Don't even know that. He was mostly a post bop dude,

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Speaker 6: you know. It's like, you know, all that late forties

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Speaker 6: up until when he started having kids and couldn't afford

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Speaker 6: to buy records. No more so from late forties to

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Speaker 6: sixty that was more his thing, especially Coltran, fifty seven

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Speaker 6: Coltrane all the way up to sixty seven Coltrane, and

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Speaker 6: that was that was his That was fair.

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Speaker 2: My introduction to your dad was via your brother's thank

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Speaker 2: you at the Grammy Awards, right, and your your brother

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Speaker 2: thanked your dad for forcing him to practice, which sparked

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Speaker 2: a fire and my own dad, who was watching, you know,

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Speaker 2: that was that was the year that Michael Jackson had.

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Speaker 2: That was the year that Michael Jackson had, you know,

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Speaker 2: won all those awards, and your brother had won for

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Speaker 2: Classical in Jazz, and that was like kind of his

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Speaker 2: his arrival party. And that moment was such a profound

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Speaker 2: That was one of the worst moments of my life

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Speaker 2: in eighty four. And my dad will say that was

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Speaker 2: the most profound moment of his life because that's when

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Speaker 2: he was like, all right, you're now going to come

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Speaker 2: straight home after school and start practicing four.

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Speaker 1: To five hours every day.

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Speaker 6: Feel and so what.

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Speaker 2: Like, was was practice mandatory in this household or was

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Speaker 2: it just like, at what point were you guys to

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Speaker 2: take your missicians?

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Speaker 6: Well, specifically you as the oldest like that knows how

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Speaker 6: to tell a good story. I mean, my dad didn't

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Speaker 6: make anybody practice.

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Speaker 2: Man, don't tell me that I freaking sacrificed my damn

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Speaker 2: wife off of up in legend.

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Speaker 6: Yep.

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Speaker 1: Fuck it worked out well for yours. Don't worry about

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Speaker 1: getting hurt.

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Speaker 2: Man. This is this is this is worse than finding

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Speaker 2: out the Sugarfoot Love roller Coaster scream wasn't a real thing.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't real.

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Speaker 1: I went up to him like, hey, wasn't a really

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Speaker 1: stop boy, that wasn't a real thing.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, y'all heard that. Yeah, it's actually it was actually

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Speaker 6: FOP that was that girl getting murdered. No, I'm telling you,

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Speaker 6: people think it's Love roller coaster. At the end of

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Speaker 6: FOP on on side to was that murderous scream, and

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Speaker 6: it was just there's this one I Love roller coaster too,

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Speaker 6: in the second half after they break it down.

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Speaker 1: There's the worst one on FIP. Trust me, I haven't

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Speaker 1: heard the one on FU Yes, And I was just

355
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Speaker 1: listening to a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 6: Man, I did a nostalgia run because for my kids,

357
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Speaker 6: because they ain't never heard none of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: They never heard it.

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Speaker 5: Okay, okay, so your career is based off of a

360
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,480
Speaker 5: win Marceals Live. So there you go.

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Speaker 1: Regularly. No, Winton was very self motivated. He practiced three

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Speaker 1: hours a day on his own, and he did just

363
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Speaker 1: three I was five.

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Speaker 6: Well, Winton, he was an interesting specimen. He was a

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Speaker 6: national a merit scholar, so you know, he had like

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Speaker 6: you know, he got free ride scholarships from Stanford and

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Speaker 6: from Harvard and all these places because he was academically.

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Speaker 1: On the top of it.

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Speaker 6: He was a national amrit scholar. And he would have

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Speaker 6: to practice in increments. The practiced by half an hour

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Speaker 6: day in the morning before school, and we would come

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Speaker 6: home for lunch. We're practice a half an hour between lunch.

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Speaker 6: Then we would go to the music school because we

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Speaker 6: at this interesting thing. We had to go to academic

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Speaker 6: school from eight to twelve.

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Speaker 1: And the music school from one to six. So then

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Speaker 1: we went to the New Orleans Andenter of Creative Arts.

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Speaker 1: And you practice for an hour or so at school

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Speaker 1: in between classes.

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Speaker 6: It adds up to an hour, and then at home

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Speaker 6: he practiced for an hour after the homework and then

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Speaker 6: repeat that cycle every day. I was impressed, and I'm

383
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Speaker 6: glad it wasn't but I was impressed. So what were

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Speaker 6: you doing during this time here? Because I mean I

385
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Speaker 6: was learning Bob. I was listening to Parliament Funkadelic, the Barcades.

386
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Speaker 6: I was fourteen years old. I was in a R

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Speaker 6: and B band with a bunch of men who had jobs.

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Speaker 6: So I was basically the piano player in that band,

389
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Speaker 6: and I was learning all the songs that wanted the

390
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Speaker 6: radio and all their parts because they had real jobs.

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Speaker 6: So I promised them, like when we had practice on Thursday,

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Speaker 6: I wouldn't know all their parts too, so they wouldn't

393
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Speaker 6: have to deal with it then, because if because what

394
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Speaker 6: I noticed when I joined the band, we were playing

395
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Speaker 6: like the same ten songs every week, you know, the

396
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Speaker 6: Love I Lost, Wake Up Everybody. And I was like, man,

397
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Speaker 6: are we going to do anything else? And they're like,

398
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Speaker 6: we got real jobs. We ain't got no time for

399
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Speaker 6: that shit. So I said, all right, I'll learn the songs.

400
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Speaker 1: I learned the songs.

401
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 6: I would learn all the songs that would hear a

402
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Speaker 6: song on the radio. I go by the forty five

403
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 6: ninety nine cents. Learned the songs and they didn't read music,

404
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 6: so it's not like I write a chart. So I

405
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,680
Speaker 6: would learn the bassline, the guitar part, everybody's parks, and

406
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Speaker 6: then I would sing the parts, didn't if they were

407
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Speaker 6: questionable about anything.

408
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Speaker 1: And my mother was pissed.

409
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Speaker 6: She was like, you know, they just using you.

410
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Speaker 1: And my Dad's like, man, that's good here training to

411
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Speaker 1: lead the boy alone. Let him do it. So after

412
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Speaker 1: about a year of doing that, it was hard at first.

413
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Speaker 6: By the time I was fifteen, I could learn the

414
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Speaker 6: song off the radio as it was coming off the radio,

415
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Speaker 6: because you know, the whole point of those songs is

416
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Speaker 6: that they're not hard to listen to.

417
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Speaker 1: That's part of the appeal. So you just start writing

418
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Speaker 1: the chord charts right there.

419
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Speaker 6: They didn't read.

420
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Speaker 1: I was nobody in the band read but me and

421
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Speaker 1: my brother. So no, I wasn't writing nothing down.

422
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 6: I was just learning songs and telling them what the

423
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 6: notes were and singing the bassline, sing the guitar part.

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Speaker 1: We put the forty five on.

425
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Speaker 6: I bring the forty five to practice, put them on,

426
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Speaker 6: and we learned songs that way, and that way we

427
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Speaker 6: could play.

428
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Speaker 1: More of a variety of songs.

429
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Speaker 2: What was the level of musician, Like, I'm assuming this

430
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Speaker 2: is New Orleans, correct, as in New Orleans, all right,

431
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Speaker 2: So what was the level of musician, especially funk musicianship

432
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,639
Speaker 2: can I assume that for every meters there were forty

433
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Speaker 2: other bands.

434
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Speaker 1: That could kick their ass that we just never heard

435
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: of or.

436
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Speaker 6: They all know meters special man, okay, needed special There

437
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Speaker 6: were you know, there were a lot of good bands

438
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Speaker 6: in New.

439
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 1: Orleans either meters, come on, that was something else.

440
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 6: I mean we would always go and check them out.

441
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 6: And there was a place called the Labor Union Hall

442
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Speaker 6: on North Clayborne Street and they be playing that for

443
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,399
Speaker 6: five bucks, you know. So here the meters. Yeah, I

444
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 6: was some special ship man, you know. And that's the

445
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 6: music from their neighborhood. I grew up in their neighborhood.

446
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 6: I grew ab up town. So I mean they you know,

447
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 6: their neighborhood, they had that thing. But there were a

448
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,879
Speaker 6: lot of great musicians in town. You know, a lot

449
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 6: of great musicians. We had brass band musicians, we had

450
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 6: jazz musicians, we had trad musicians, R and B musicians,

451
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 6: rock and roll musicians, R and B musicians. We had

452
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 6: that New Orleans flunk.

453
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 1: Like Professor long Hair and all that stuff. Yeah, Professor

454
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 1: long Hair.

455
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 6: And then then his his descendant was a James Jones,

456
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 6: James doctor John too. See, by the time I was

457
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 6: conscious Doc Mackett already moved to La body.

458
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 3: Oh okay, gotcha.

459
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: Mac gone by the time, like in the seventies.

460
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 6: My my musical consciousness starts around nineteen seventy seventy one,

461
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 6: and Macott already moved to La and you know he

462
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 6: was doing like was that song that a big hit?

463
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 6: Right place, wrong time, right wrong time?

464
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 1: You know, And my dad would laugh whenever it came on.

465
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: He goes, man, let's know, Mac, that's great.

466
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 6: And that's what I loved about ving from war, like

467
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 6: we didn't have you know, when I moved to New

468
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 6: York and suddenly they were like jazz camp over here,

469
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,680
Speaker 6: r and b camp over here. But in New Orleans,

470
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 6: I mean it's such a small city. All the musicians

471
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 6: was just in there. So anytime anybody did well, everybody cheered.

472
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Really in wait, Philly is that way too, though? No, No,

473
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: we're the worst fans of all time. So come about

474
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: as the musicians.

475
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 6: Musicians and what with my outsider interpretation of Philly musicians

476
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 6: don't really they don't, they don't.

477
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: They're like the cross genre really easily. They're not trying

478
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 1: to be especialist in a category.

479
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 8: That's my perception in the little time that I spent there, Okay,

480
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 8: because in New York it's very territorial and I kind

481
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 8: of laughed at them, but uh, you know, New Orleans

482
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 8: was just great that way.

483
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 2: So if you're saying that at the time when you

484
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 2: were in this band, how old were you were you

485
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 2: like fourteen fifteen?

486
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,640
Speaker 6: I was twelve, so seven nineteen seventy two?

487
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 1: Wait, how old were they? If you were twelve? There

488
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: were men bad jobs? Oh okay.

489
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 2: At this point, are you saying that this is what

490
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 2: you want to do or I know what I wanted

491
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 2: to be? So when did you take your musicianship seriously?

492
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: I took that shit seriously then, but it didn't mean

493
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: that I wanted to do it. Okay, you know, think

494
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: of it.

495
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 6: You know, it's like, you know, it's like playing sports.

496
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 6: I tried to play football. I took it seriously. I sucked.

497
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna be nobody's football player.

498
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 6: But it's not like, well, I'm I'm not gonna take

499
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 6: it seriously since I'm not gonna play it in college.

500
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 6: I'm not gonna play in the NFL. It's just like,

501
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 6: you know, you got there, try to play you out there? Trunk.

502
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: So I was in this band, and I.

503
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 6: Took it very seriously. I learned everybody learned everybody's damn parts.

504
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: I's definitely not taking it seriously.

505
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 6: I was like a musical director and I was thirteen,

506
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 6: so you know, I took it very seriously.

507
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: And I was prepared, and I learned all these songs

508
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: and I did all my stuff, and that was where

509
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: my head was, you know.

510
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 6: And then went got Clifford Brown and classical music, and

511
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 6: I thought it was great.

512
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: I played classical music when I was younger. I play

513
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: clarinet in.

514
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 6: The youth orchestra. Right, I remember this is actually the

515
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 6: most well it's as an old man, it's pathetic.

516
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 1: As a young person, it's it's probably a very common story.

517
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 1: Every said when you switch to play saxophone.

518
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 6: I said, I was thirteen years old and I saw

519
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 6: these girls and it was like the first time that

520
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 6: I saw girls, and I went, damn, they fun. So

521
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 6: they walking and I'm like filing behind them because I

522
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 6: don't know what to do. And they walked into a

523
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 6: dance and I went in and there was a band player,

524
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 6: you know, And I looked in and I saw the

525
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 6: band and I said, I got joined one of those bands,

526
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 6: so I can mean girls. So I went home and

527
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 6: said I want a saxophone. Said so I joined the band,

528
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 6: and my dad laughed and said okay, whatever.

529
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: That's you know. And then Christmas I got in saxophone.

530
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: I was already in the band playing piano. I didn't

531
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 1: want to play piano.

532
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,479
Speaker 6: I wanted to play saxophone in the band. So when

533
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 6: I was fourteen, I convinced this friend of mine, Kerman Campbell,

534
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 6: who's a really great piano player, because I was. I

535
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 6: was not a great I was a functional piano player,

536
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 6: you know, three note chords, the whole thing. I got Kerman,

537
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 6: who was in this other band. I think it was

538
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 6: like jam incorporator. I said, man, come join the creators

539
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 6: man and he thought I was trying to double where

540
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 6: and say, wait a minute, man, you played piano. I said,

541
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 6: not really, I.

542
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: Don't play the vienna. You're the vienna player. You should

543
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: come join the band.

544
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 6: Because I want to get a horn section because we

545
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 6: had one horn player. John Roche was the trumpet player.

546
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 6: Said I want to get a horn section, and I

547
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 6: want to get me on alto and went into the

548
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 6: other trumpet and we have this three piece horn section. Great,

549
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 6: I don't know, bro, I don't know. I said, come on,

550
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 6: Kerman and he did it. So then I played saxophone

551
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 6: in the band and Kermit took over there. And then

552
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 6: Kermit is a really musically knowledgeable guy. You know, he

553
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 6: played in church.

554
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: So we really got this music thing happening in the band.

555
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: So the bass player was like, Okay, it's getting too

556
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: heavy for me.

557
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 6: I'm just gonna be the manager. Why don't you'll go

558
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 6: get a better back.

559
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: What the hell?

560
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 6: Wow?

561
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: He was right.

562
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 6: I mean we were going to step the fire him

563
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 6: if he didn't do that anyway, and he saw it.

564
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 6: So he became the manager of the band and we

565
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 6: got the Hamilton brothers. The drummer got mad at me

566
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 6: and just quit Bertrane and said, you know, who do

567
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 6: you think you are? Man?

568
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: You know your little punk? I mean, I'm a grown

569
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 1: ass man.

570
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 6: I quit.

571
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: Damn great, So he quit, and then we called the

572
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: Hamilton brothers, Shannon and Anthony Hamilton.

573
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 6: They joined the band, and that was pretty much what

574
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 6: the band was for a long time. And you, it

575
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 6: was you and your brother went in this band, me

576
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 6: and Wynton and John Rochet with a horn section Anthony

577
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 6: Hamilton on bass, Shannon Hamilton on drums, Michael As on guitar,

578
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 6: Gavin Bell was the singer, Kermit was the keyboard player.

579
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 1: Pretty much it.

580
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, I'm glad I knew this story again, Like

581
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 2: I guess my all time profession was that you guys

582
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: were just born with these scepters and capes of want

583
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 2: jazz world.

584
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 6: And everybody wants to believe it.

585
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: I don't know why they want to believe it.

586
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 6: But it's fine.

587
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: So I'm not the only person that comes to you.

588
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 2: You're already flying, You're already swatting flies. All my questions, I.

589
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: Know, do you know what's coming?

590
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 6: No, it's just like you know, yeah, it's not true,

591
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 6: but people need to believe. It's fine, you know, like, yeah,

592
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 6: we're we're the black Von Trapps. You know, we've been

593
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 6: singing dead stands over us and says, no, let's do it.

594
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 6: That's great.

595
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: So you're telling me that, like your brother knows a

596
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 2: horn line that like pee wee from the Ohio players

597
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 2: once did in this lifetime.

598
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just refuse to believe that he knows anything

599
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: outside of jazz.

600
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 6: That. Okay, you're right, he doesn't know it.

601
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: Well, I see that. Well, okay, well explain that to me.

602
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: And I don't want to make this about like you

603
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: can make it about whatever you want. I know that.

604
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 2: I know it must be tired answering all these questions

605
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 2: all this time, But you know, I always saw you,

606
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 2: at least my perception. Again, this is like our first real,

607
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: in depth conversation, and we've casually seen each other passing.

608
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: By or whatever.

609
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 2: But I mean, I always saw you as the king

610
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: of yes, the king of open I'll do this, and

611
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: i'll do that, and I'll do the other, whereas I

612
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: would see your brother as the polar opposite, which I

613
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 2: mean I respect it both because I guess in hip

614
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 2: hop my true heart is kind of close to where

615
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 2: your brother was, where I like tradition and I like

616
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: people that are well skilled at their talent and that

617
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: sort of thing. But you know, I also understand that

618
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 2: I'm in a whole another generation now, and what I

619
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: perceive is great might not be what someone born in

620
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: two thousand things is great, So I mean, I get it,

621
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: But like, what made you just.

622
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: Stick to your guns to be open to things that

623
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: we would otherwise think that I didn't have to stick

624
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: to any guns. Went and stuck to his guns. I

625
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: mean I always when I was okay, I'm telling you.

626
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 6: I played with the creators, I played in youth orchestra,

627
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 6: I played trad jazz, I played all of these things,

628
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 6: and uh.

629
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: You know, I mean I liked them and I was

630
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: good at it.

631
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 6: Went is one of the greatest trumpet players in the world.

632
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 6: He played funk, but you know he didn't play it

633
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 6: like you know, he didn't kill it.

634
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: He just played it.

635
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 6: And he was a great trumpet player. I mean John Roche,

636
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 6: who was a more natural funk player, was like.

637
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: Bro, I ain't even heard of fucking trumpet. Sound like that?

638
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: What's wrong with him? But Went Lincoln play a.

639
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 6: Kind of you couldn't even think of. Man just destined

640
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 6: for other things, and you know it proved to be

641
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 6: right for him. But for me, I mean I always

642
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 6: had a knack I mean for playing funk. And I'm

643
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 6: trying to find his picture. If you see my eyes

644
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 6: a laundry, somebody.

645
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: Sent me a picture of the band and wow, and

646
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: Went's in it. And I'm trying to find his picture

647
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: so I can send.

648
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 6: It to you.

649
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: Boy.

650
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: Okay, what is your what's your preferred weapon of choice

651
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: as far as your access concerned.

652
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: And you know Bourbon.

653
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so I'm asking this only because I know

654
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: that you're proficient on tenor and soprano, and like, no

655
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: disrespect to you know, Sydney pochet Or or Shorter or

656
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: Lacy or whatever. But I was just always on the

657
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 2: impression that I mean, for like, as has Colturing sort

658
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: of not not ruined the soprano, but has he made

659
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 2: it a hard mountain to climb for people to pursue

660
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: a career in soprano because you've stuck to soprano.

661
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: No, not really.

662
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 6: Coltrane wasn't really what I would call a good soprano player.

663
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: What John did was he ran out a room on.

664
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 6: The tennis, so he picked up the soprano because he

665
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 6: wanted the notes to get higher. What made winn shortest

666
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 6: soprano playing fascinating to me was that he didn't play

667
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 6: the soprano the same way he played the tenor.

668
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: The soprano wasn't a higher extension of his tenor playing.

669
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: He treated it like it was a completely separate instrument.

670
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 6: And that was the thing that I was more drawn to.

671
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 6: One of the most incredible soprano players I've ever heard.

672
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 6: John Coltrane is one of the most incredible tenor saxophone

673
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 6: players I've ever heard, and he just transferred his tenor

674
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 6: ship to the soprano because the.

675
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: Tenor wasn't the right sound.

676
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 6: But bishe, I can play you recordings of the set

677
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 6: playing in a room in Paris in the thirties and

678
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 6: you can hear the sound of the instrument.

679
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: Double backing in the room. The sound was so I mean,

680
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: I was like, that's the sound I want.

681
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 7: So it was harder to find a sound on though

682
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 7: I feel like the soprano. I grew up a player too,

683
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 7: and I never got laid playing the clarinet also, and

684
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 7: I switch like like I found the soprano that I could,

685
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 7: I'm not you, but like I never found the It

686
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 7: always it was easier to sound like someone else than

687
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 7: it was to their own sound. Where I feel like

688
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 7: the tenor, you're able to create your own sound. Maybe

689
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 7: that's totally well.

690
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 6: The thing for me was that when this is how

691
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 6: I got a soprano was Grogo was playing played the

692
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 6: soprano right, and I said, damn, I want a soprano.

693
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 6: So my grandfather said Ramball I'll get you one of

694
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 6: them things. So it was a company called California Music Instruments,

695
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 6: and you call them, send them whatever was six hundred

696
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 6: dollars or whatever, and they would send you a soprano

697
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 6: in the mill.

698
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: So I got it, and I was excited, but I'm like, well,

699
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: why the hell am I gonna play it? So I

700
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: just kind of had it, and all I would do

701
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: is pick it up, and what I would do is

702
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: use it.

703
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 6: I could make it sound like a clarinet, So I

704
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 6: would just pull out clarinet music and play the soprano

705
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 6: and make the tone sound like a clarinet. I think

706
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 6: a lot of people that played a soprano the only

707
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 6: person they ever listened to is Coltrane, which has that

708
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 6: real bright, pinched kind of whining sound on the soprano.

709
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 6: They don't even listen to these other guys. So for me,

710
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 6: just the idea of creating that clarinet sound on a

711
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 6: soprano immediately gave it more of a woody sound than

712
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 6: a tiny sound. And then listening to Wayne Shorter, who

713
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 6: also had a more round sound than a bright, piercing sound,

714
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 6: that kind of set me in a place whereas the

715
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 6: majority of my colleagues were going straight from the train thing,

716
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 6: so their soprano sound was real thin, kind of bright.

717
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: I had the exact opposite sound.

718
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: What was your in your opinion?

719
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 4: You know, where does Pharaoh Sanders fit into all of

720
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 4: this because he's like one of my favorite I mean

721
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 4: just I'm not a jazz musician or like a jazz

722
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 4: like nerd like that, but I just love his I

723
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 4: just I just love his sound.

724
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 6: I was just talking to that guy about that that

725
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 6: had never heard about his Boby is incredible, like the

726
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 6: way he sounds on the instrument, but he is completely out.

727
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: Of coltraning school. As a matter of fact, he was

728
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: playing with Johnny when he got so his whole thing

729
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: is is he comes out of cold traning school. But

730
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: the sound he has on the instrument, the hef of

731
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: his sound, it is an amazing thing to listen to.

732
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 6: And it was something that was very inspiring. And uh

733
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 6: remember when uh feeling philips Hymen saying on that on

734
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 6: on that uh on Gene Karn's Husband's record.

735
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: I think it was maybe as you are when Pharaoh

736
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: played that solo and as you are, yeah I don't

737
00:34:54,239 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: want me, Yeah yeah, yeah, just flipped it, you know,

738
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: and that's my first time checking him out.

739
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 6: Man, that's killed it.

740
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: Man, you know, other than you know, what's the other thing?

741
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 3: Goog created a massive plan.

742
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 2: So fante, I'm realizing now because he dropped a hot

743
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:24,439
Speaker 2: take in saying that Wayne Wayne is slightly not more

744
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: advanced in his soprano playing than Coltrank, that I realized

745
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 2: that Branford might be the f m W j of

746
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 2: of jazz opinions. Wait, I just want to drop this

747
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 2: gem in there. I didn't say that, Okay, okay, because

748
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: that's right. I've misquoted you before.

749
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: So let'sten. Let's let's make a cuche. But anyway, Wayne

750
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: comes out of couldr WA know I got that. I

751
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: know that Wayne soprano.

752
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 6: Sound is molded in a different it's much rounder sound,

753
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 6: the sound that I prefer, the totally preferred trained sound,

754
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 6: and that they're they're entitled to that.

755
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 1: But for me, Wayne was always the guy I wanted

756
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: to sound more like.

757
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 3: And just what the listeners, we're talking about Wayne Shorter.

758
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 1: Just to be clear, that's about Wayne Newton.

759
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 6: Sometimes we got to break it down, my homeboy, don't

760
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 6: even get me started anyway.

761
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: So wait, there's all right. So there's there's a good

762
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: friend of mine that.

763
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: Is well respected in the jazz world who kind of

764
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 2: broke my heart when he told me that that Carter

765
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 2: wasn't even in.

766
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 1: His top five bass player Ron Carter, you know, okay, okay, right?

767
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: And the thing was no, no, no, And I had

768
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: to investigate this and everyone was like, oh yeah, Miles

769
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: never let Ron solo on any.

770
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: Of his things because he wasn't a good soloist. And

771
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: I didn't for the base. I didn't realize that that

772
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: was a popular like what what other the bassis the

773
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: anchor of the band and not to be sold. The

774
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: purpose of the bass.

775
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 6: You can solo if you want, but the purpose of

776
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 6: the bass is to anchor the band in any style

777
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 6: of music.

778
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

779
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 6: I mean, like you take a song like Hocky good Time,

780
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 6: what is the bass player? People of Dubo people do

781
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 6: be beople dubb for seven minutes? Can he solo? I

782
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 6: don't know, do like give a fuck?

783
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: Not really know what I tell you.

784
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 6: I love it the bass player's job. It's like, you know, okay,

785
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 6: it's really nice if you have a seven foot guy

786
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 6: who can dribble a ball like a point guard. But

787
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 6: we don't need you to play point We need you

788
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 6: to dump there in the paint and get your ass

789
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 6: beat and take their bits. I need bass players that

790
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 6: can play the bass, and whoever your guy is, all

791
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,720
Speaker 6: that is is it's like you know, the bassis.

792
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,439
Speaker 1: You know, it's like just regular people hearing jazz MH.

793
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 6: One of the reasons they hate just because they say

794
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 6: it all sounds the same. And one reason it all

795
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 6: sounds the same is because everybody's playing the same ship now.

796
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 6: So the bass players are playing the same ship the

797
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 6: saxophone players play. If you listen to a record from

798
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 6: the forties, the one thing that's good is that saxophone

799
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 6: players sound different than trumpet players, who sound different than

800
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 6: bass players, who sound different than rummers. Now they all

801
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 6: playing the same two five one legs. So of course

802
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 6: to an untrained ear, it all sounds the same. Because

803
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 6: I have a trained deer, and the ship all sounds

804
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 6: the same. To me, I would rather hear a bass

805
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 6: player sound like a bass rather than go and you

806
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 6: know another music to be like WHOA, I'm like, man, play.

807
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: The guitar, Dad, So can I ask what does that

808
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: mean for? Uh?

809
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 6: No?

810
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 2: Not even I'm like, what does that mean for Ray

811
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 2: Brown's or Mingus legacy or mingas.

812
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 6: Mingas didn't do a lot when he did, and when

813
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 6: he did solo, he sounded like a bass player when

814
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 6: he's solo peer.

815
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: Boo boo pop boop, doooo peroo boo boo boo.

816
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 6: Boo boo boo.

817
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: He didn't go boo, but he didn't do that ship.

818
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 1: He played bass solos and then he would just swing

819
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: you to death.

820
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,439
Speaker 6: That means, come on, man, that's bass because the whole

821
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 6: thing is all right because because my bass player we

822
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 6: got into this thing ten fifteen years ago. It was

823
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 6: more of like fifty where he started like wanting to

824
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 6: take these big modern bass solers.

825
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 2: I'm like, man, can you please not do that ship

826
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 2: because he hears a pastorious head or like was he

827
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 2: a jack ohead?

828
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: Or like no, no, no way.

829
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 6: He plays acoustics, so it's hard to play, like you

830
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 6: can't play that on acoustic bass. You just can't.

831
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: All right, well mcbridy, you know, well, no, he's older

832
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: than Chris.

833
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 6: I mean, we all love Christian so but it was

834
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 6: just more like he's he's you know, because there's a

835
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 6: legacy of that you know, Ray Brown and Oscar Pediford,

836
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 6: all of these guys, right, I would appreciate it. If

837
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 6: you wouldn't do it, You're like, man, you know, I

838
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 6: got to express myself. I said, all right, tonight, when

839
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 6: we play this song, rhythm changes, I'm like, go ahead,

840
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 6: play whatever you want. And then the second night, I said,

841
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 6: I want you to just walk a base baseline, walk

842
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 6: a bass solo. So he's walking the bass solo, and

843
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 6: if he's doing it, you hear the audience. Yeah. By

844
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 6: the fourth course, they are ploding and screaming, and I said,

845
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 6: he says, I don't even understand that. I said, you

846
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 6: gotta think like people who don't know nothing about music.

847
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 6: You're the only instrument that can do that. Like if

848
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 6: I started solo and I started going, it sounds ridiculous

849
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 6: for me to do that. It's not the function of

850
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 6: the saxophone. But if you walk in the bass and

851
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 6: walking with intensity, it's gonna d D the only only

852
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 6: instrument on the stage that can do that. So when

853
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 6: you do that, the audience has never heard anything like that.

854
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 6: So an audience is sitting there trying to like the music,

855
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 6: and they hear a piano player and a sax player

856
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 6: and a trumpet player and not a damn BSS player's

857
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 6: gonna sound just like them. There's no change in color,

858
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 6: there's no change in anything. It's all these scene licks

859
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 6: regurgitated over and over and over again. At song. Everybody's

860
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 6: ready to leave. There's no changes in color, no changes

861
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 6: in dynamics. All right.

862
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to now parallel this to my world.

863
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: So maybe what I figure saying is the way that

864
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 2: I sort of feel about gospel chop.

865
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: Started.

866
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 6: Man, that's just got nothing to do with it.

867
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 3: Go in, go in, go in nothing.

868
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 1: I get it now. So it's just like I'm more

869
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: impressed with the pocket than I am with how.

870
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 6: Many you know, except the musicians. I mean, this is

871
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,280
Speaker 6: what jazz has become. It's like a bunch of musicians

872
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 6: playing for other musicians. And in a lot of ways

873
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 6: in some of the classical music communities, that's what it is.

874
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 6: Really adventurous, highly technical, high and skilled musicians playing for

875
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 6: other musicians. And you know, gospel chops dot com is

876
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 6: musicians playing for musicians. I mean, if I was able

877
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 6: to get a band and they had some band full

878
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 6: of young gospel cats and they all playing and I

879
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 6: just started going, I'd win every time. Every time I win,

880
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 6: the audience will start clapping, they start screaming, they start

881
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 6: feeling the spirit I win. And that's what I'm talking

882
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 6: about when I talked about the bass earlier, because that

883
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 6: music has a function depending on the style of it

884
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 6: is and the context it is, it is a function.

885
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 6: And what modern musicians want to do is remove the

886
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 6: function from their instrument because suddenly being a great instrumentalist

887
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 6: is more important than being a great musician.

888
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 4: I was gonna ask for you, braver, how do you

889
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 4: determine as a musician kind of when to walk the

890
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 4: line between just kind of you know, being you know,

891
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 4: a musician and then kind of being more you know,

892
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 4: a virtual So like when is it when is it

893
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 4: time to show off?

894
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 3: Or is there ever a time to show off?

895
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: And the song requires no other time? Gotcha? If I'm

896
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 1: planned with the Grateful Dead, that shit is never required.

897
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 6: It.

898
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: But who's that for?

899
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 6: Right? That's just like a certain kind of self aggrandizement

900
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 6: where you go in and you play all of this

901
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 6: hardcore shit and they ain't but literally two people in

902
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 6: a room full of eighteen thousand people that would even

903
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 6: know what it is. You suddenly become so disconnected from

904
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 6: what it is you're supposed to be doing. Like you

905
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 6: playing a horn section, What does that mean? That means

906
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 6: you in the background. That's what it means. You're gonna

907
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,479
Speaker 6: have your horn parts, You're gonna be dancing, You're gonna

908
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 6: be doing all your things. I mean, you know, you

909
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 6: go to Earth Wind and Fire concert. They had a

910
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 6: great horn section. You know, Don Mack was playing alto

911
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 6: killing didn't nobody in the audience know the name of

912
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 6: the horn section. Didn't even notice it.

913
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: You know, everybody knew who Verdeine was, everybody knew who

914
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: Maurice was.

915
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 6: You know what I mean.

916
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: Everybody knew Philip Bailey was. They didn't know what the

917
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: horn section was. But that's the thing.

918
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 6: We always function in the background. So I come from

919
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 6: that and then I start playing jazz. I'm still cool

920
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 6: with being in the background. I don't need to be

921
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 6: the center of the attention, even though the nature of

922
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 6: what it is, I wind up being the center of attention.

923
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 6: But when I would play, people would say, why do

924
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 6: you always walk to the back of the stage when

925
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 6: you ain't soloing? I said, because if I stand there

926
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 6: people are gonna look at me, and I want them

927
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 6: to look at whoever else is solo. So if I

928
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 6: walk to the back of the stage behind the piano

929
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 6: and I've become a shadow, They're gonna look around and deduce.

930
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: Oh the piano players plan let me check him out.

931
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 6: I'm not just gonna stand there in preen imposture because

932
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 6: I'm not that insecure. I don't need the attention to

933
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 6: be on me. You know, I remember Sting was doing

934
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 6: this this. You know, he did these Rainforest Foundation concerts.

935
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 6: He do these Rainforest Foundation concerts for twenty years. He

936
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 6: did them at Carnegie Hall once a year, and they

937
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 6: would always have run team. And he called me.

938
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: He says, I need some help. I need a horn section.

939
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 1: We're gonna do Stack to Night. And I said, all right,

940
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: I'll get back to you.

941
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 6: So I said, uh. I called Lou solo Off, who

942
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 6: was the trumpet player with Blood Sweating Tears and played

943
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 6: in the Saturday Night Live band.

944
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: I said, look, let's do this gig.

945
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 6: Called this trombone player from Berkeley, Tim Williams, and I said,

946
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 6: I got It's a three piece horn section. Lou sol Off,

947
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 6: Tim Williams and me and this think says, now, wait

948
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 6: a minute, Mane. You know we don't have diden need

949
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 6: these step off performances, and said, man, I grew up

950
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 6: in a horn section. I don't need a step up performance.

951
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 6: I just want to be in the horn section. I

952
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 6: have never played these tunics. I love these tuness. Just

953
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 6: leave me alone, let me do my thing.

954
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: You know I'm not.

955
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 6: We're playing these horn parts and we just having a

956
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 6: good ass time. And then there were a couple of

957
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 6: sax solos. It's like them eight ball little things like

958
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 6: I'll put a spell on you.

959
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,919
Speaker 3: Oh wow, screaming hawkins I put.

960
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 6: From me.

961
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: I used that once in the beat. That was great anyway,

962
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: I know y'all know so.

963
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 6: And then it came for the solo and I'm playing

964
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 6: the solo and Steve Cropper turns around says, God.

965
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: Damn somewhere.

966
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 6: You're from New Orleans.

967
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: He goes, yeah, figures. Then we got back to play.

968
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 6: With me.

969
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 2: Wait, that's the first time you met Steve Cropper the

970
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 2: first time you met me? Ah yeah, I was about

971
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 2: to say you were bringing from Marcellas.

972
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 6: I don't mean to ship down. He's just older boy

973
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 6: from Alabama playing some funky ass tunes. He was like

974
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 6: when he turnd me playing he turned away. It was

975
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:08,879
Speaker 6: more of a compliment that he's like, damn, man, that's

976
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 6: how good.

977
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: Where are you from? You know?

978
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 6: Vietnam was the fact that he didn't know made it

979
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 6: hipper and.

980
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: That was our games.

981
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 6: That was it.

982
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: You know.

983
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: I never got a chance to really chop it up

984
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 2: with someone who was of age at the time when

985
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 2: jazz was really going through its eighties transition, you know,

986
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 2: with Miles sort of going on his terrain, trying to

987
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 2: refine or redefine himself, and just at the time you

988
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 2: were twenty, I assume by the age of twenty you

989
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 2: were serious about your craft and you were at least

990
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: in the young Lions category by this point, Like, at

991
00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: what point are you no good? All right, come on, Brant,

992
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 2: will you work with me?

993
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 1: At What age were you? When when you arrived? What

994
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 1: age were you? Because I'm asking this because for myself.

995
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 2: Yes, when did you feel that? When was your arrival?

996
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 2: When when your father was like, yeah, my son's killing it.

997
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 2: As far as that, my father never said that, but

998
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 2: uh okay, I did. Just so the whole point was

999
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 2: that with two thousands with cats, with cats, like, well,

1000
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 2: I'm just saying with cats like Crouch and George Butler,

1001
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 2: Sony and all that, with them sort of as the

1002
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 2: old jazz guard. And you know, I've talked to like

1003
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 2: David Murray and all those cats like an mbase trying

1004
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: to do their thing, Like what what was the environment?

1005
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 2: Was it a civil war environment of people wrestling trying to.

1006
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 6: Figure out I guess it may have been a civil

1007
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 6: war for those who gave a fuck, but uh I

1008
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 6: wasn't one of them, so.

1009
00:47:58,400 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: I don't know civil war for me.

1010
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 3: No, I love it.

1011
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 7: I love it.

1012
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: Well, that's my question, Like what was it in that environment?

1013
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 6: Like you just didn't care about jazz critics and jazz

1014
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 6: critics please, it was a simple environment.

1015
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: There's a simple question for me. Right, that's the young

1016
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: man in nineteen fifty seven.

1017
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 6: You got all these dudes that can play all these

1018
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 6: sixteenth notes, they can't play a fucking eighth notes solo.

1019
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 6: You can't play a lesser young solo with the right

1020
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 6: tone in the right style.

1021
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: And that included me.

1022
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 6: So my thinking is is that if we're moving jazz forward,

1023
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,760
Speaker 6: how come we can't play none of this other shit? Because,

1024
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 6: like I have a friend who's a physicist, right, Physicists

1025
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 6: are really good at math. If my friend Barry Abart

1026
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,439
Speaker 6: flew in here from the Jet Proportion laboratory where he works,

1027
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 6: and I said, hey, man, my daughter is a sophomore

1028
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 6: and high school.

1029
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 1: Can you help her with this math?

1030
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 6: He wouldn't say, well, you know that's cool, man, but

1031
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 6: you know we're working on this new thing here, and

1032
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 6: I think it's way more advanced that was who back

1033
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 6: in this day. He would say, yeah, no problem, I'm

1034
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 6: a physicist. Now you think about modern music, that old shit, Yeah,

1035
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 6: that shit was cool, but you know that's that we've

1036
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 6: gone beyond that.

1037
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: I say, is that French for you can't fucking do it? Paralleough,

1038
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 1: that's friend for you can't play it cool? Well, you

1039
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 1: know what. I can't either, But I'm gonna learn how. Man,

1040
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: when you listen to that old shit, fuck, do your think?

1041
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 1: Do your think y'all? You know the critics say, what

1042
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: do the critics play? M h.

1043
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 6: It's like a friend of mine listens to these sports

1044
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 6: you know, saxophone player friend named Paul Carry listens to

1045
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 6: these sports radio shows which.

1046
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: I'll listen to sometimes.

1047
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 6: A guy who's five foot six, who has strong opinions

1048
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 6: about people who play a game that he was never

1049
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 6: good enough to play. How much freedoms can I take

1050
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 6: in that? Seriously?

1051
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:45,720
Speaker 3: Facts?

1052
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: You know, when when Jim Rohme.

1053
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 6: Decided to call Jim Everett, who was a football player,

1054
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,439
Speaker 6: Chris Everett because he plays like a girl, Jim made

1055
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 6: him famous by beating his ass.

1056
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: On the studio. What Jim should have done? It said,

1057
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 1: you know what, you got a point.

1058
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 6: That's why I'm gonna set it up so that you

1059
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 6: can come to training camp and I'm gonna get you

1060
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 6: a uniform. We're gonna film you, and you're gonna show

1061
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 6: us how to do it.

1062
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: And I imagine if he had said that. Magine if I.

1063
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 6: Mean, this guy from San Francisco is ripping Sting saying

1064
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 6: Sting ain't shit, band sucks blah blah blah. Sting writes

1065
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 6: him a letter in the newspaper. Yeah, this is a

1066
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 6: lot harder than you think. That's why when we come

1067
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 6: back in six months, I'm gonna reserve ten minutes for

1068
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 6: you and you can come on stage and you can

1069
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 6: do whatever you want.

1070
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 9: You can read poetry, it don't matter. You ain't got

1071
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:37,240
Speaker 9: to sing a song. Yeah, the ten minutes are yours.

1072
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 6: And he received the universal condemnation from all these critics

1073
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 6: because they know, because they know, and they're like, you're

1074
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 6: the one who's rich in famous, take your lumps, and

1075
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 6: he's like, no, I ain't about taking lumps. You are

1076
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 6: trying to make yourself an authority on some shit you

1077
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 6: don't know how to do, so come on up here

1078
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 6: and show me how to do it.

1079
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 1: And that's our feel and it ain't like im because.

1080
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 6: Like people say, you know and critics are really killing

1081
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 6: I'm like, so most of my real critics are like

1082
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 6: these dead dudes, and I'm trying to learn how to

1083
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 6: play like I got good enough years.

1084
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 10: I know if I can play this ship well or

1085
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 10: if I can't play it well. And if I can't

1086
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 10: play it well, I have to figure out how to

1087
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 10: learn how to play it well. And about me, they're

1088
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 10: not going they're not gonna help me learn how to

1089
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 10: do that.

1090
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 4: It was an example of something that if it's an

1091
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 4: older style or older music, something that you had to

1092
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 4: learn how to play well.

1093
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 6: Dude. There's so many of those, but I think the

1094
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 6: easiest one is playing balance. Most modern players don't know

1095
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 6: how to play. But I tell you, what do you

1096
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 6: I told y'all, So they you know, because they listen

1097
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 6: to train, you know, because train would play the melody

1098
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 6: and then you go into a two field and start

1099
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 6: playing all this shit.

1100
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: So in there like I want to do that. But

1101
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: the thing is is that if you.

1102
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 6: Listen to train chronologically, he could also play a ballot

1103
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 6: very simply and very beautifully. So what they do is

1104
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 6: they listen to train at the end of his process,

1105
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 6: and that's where they start their process. And I was

1106
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 6: the same different gotcha? So part Blakey was like, man,

1107
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 6: you can't play a ballad where the ship you know,

1108
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 6: You're horrible.

1109
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, great, okay, you know true, but that's all

1110
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:12,879
Speaker 1: you got. Is there a solution in there? Any reason?

1111
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 6: Yeah? Go check out Ben Webster, all right. I listened

1112
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 6: to it a little bit. My brother Delphia, we would

1113
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 6: we would always talk about music. I said, man, I

1114
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 6: got to get some more Ben Wester. So I was

1115
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,479
Speaker 6: getting ready to go on stings first two in eighty five.

1116
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 6: My brother says, I got a package coming for you,

1117
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 6: and it was two cassettes. Back in the good old

1118
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 6: days we got cassettes, right, and a package. Yeah, two

1119
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 6: cassettes because the Walkman was that they didn't have Discman yet.

1120
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 6: They weren't out yet play c D yet, they weren't

1121
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 6: there yet.

1122
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: It was two Ben.

1123
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 6: Webster records, one with the Oscar pedis and trio and

1124
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 6: the other.

1125
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 1: One with strings.

1126
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 6: I listened to these ships every day for a year

1127
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 6: and a half.

1128
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: Now I was playing with things. I was rocking out, but.

1129
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 6: Every day at least once, sometimes I'm playing twice a day.

1130
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 6: I would listen to both of these cassettes, and a

1131
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 6: year and a half later, I could play like Ben

1132
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 6: without even trying to play. It just came out the morn.

1133
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, damn, that works, okay, great.

1134
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 6: And that was just the beginning.

1135
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: But in the break in the middle of it.

1136
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 6: We were off for six weeks and I went to

1137
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 6: the Vanguard and I was playing with some people and

1138
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 6: this old tenor man, Buddy Take, he played with Basie's

1139
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 6: band in the thirties.

1140
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 1: I said, Tate, you know you got.

1141
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 6: An advice from me. He says, Son, you're the worst

1142
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 6: ballet player I ever heard in my life. And I said,

1143
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 6: I know, I know, I'm working on it. He says, really,

1144
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 6: you're working out of what you're doing. I said, I'm

1145
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 6: listening to these two ben Websters see things. He goes,

1146
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 6: that's gonna take care of it. You just keep listening

1147
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 6: to them. I said, but I've been listening for a

1148
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 6: year and it sounds like shit. He says, son the

1149
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 6: only way to get better is to keep sounding like

1150
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 6: shit till it don't sound like shit no more.

1151
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: There ain't no shortcuts.

1152
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 6: And I said, okay, cool.

1153
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: And then when I came back there it was, you know, and.

1154
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 6: Then I would start playing all these old songs and

1155
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:06,399
Speaker 6: guys say, man, why are you playing that old ship?

1156
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 6: And I'm like, why is a dog lickors balls? Because

1157
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:09,919
Speaker 6: he can't?

1158
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 1: You know. It's just like why did I do it?

1159
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 1: Because I learned how to do it? Why can't you

1160
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: do it? I don't want to do that, Sure you

1161
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,760
Speaker 1: don't like And it was just like sing.

1162
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 6: After thing I tried to learn, you know, I practiced

1163
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 6: Sonny Rollins, trying to play like Sonny for two years nothing,

1164
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 6: and then like eight months later, the sunny stuff starts

1165
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 6: coming out.

1166
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: And then after Sonny, you just learned how to play like.

1167
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 4: I was gonna ask you. I was gonna ask you

1168
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,919
Speaker 4: about ornate Coleen. He was someone that I never could

1169
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 4: get into. It was just so it seems so far

1170
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 4: out from me, like what was his thing?

1171
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 6: That's the only that's the only time Stanley Crouch and

1172
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 6: I ever had a conversation with. At the end of it,

1173
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 6: I'm like, thanks, man, because you need to check out.

1174
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 6: I know.

1175
00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 1: Stanley was one for always wanting to fight out.

1176
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 6: You know.

1177
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: He gave me this record, The Shape of Chats to Come,

1178
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: and I listened to it for a week. I said, yeah,

1179
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 1: this just sucks, man.

1180
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 6: He goes, yeah, you need to keep listening.

1181
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 2: You didn't like to save the Jackson Come when it

1182
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 2: first came out, But I know when it first came out,

1183
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 2: when you first heard three years old.

1184
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 6: When I first heard it, it was like, this sucks.

1185
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,839
Speaker 6: Two weeks in, three weeks in, I'm like, okay that man.

1186
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 6: It took four months of listening to this record every day,

1187
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 6: and then in the fourth month suddenly I heard what

1188
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,320
Speaker 6: it actually was and I'm like, holy shit, it's not

1189
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 6: even out.

1190
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 1: It's all in. It's all based on standard song for him.

1191
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 6: And I came back and started telling Cat y'all said, going,

1192
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,720
Speaker 6: that's out. This shit's in. It's sands the man, You're crazy.

1193
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 6: That's not standing song for him, standing song for standard

1194
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 6: song for you just have to listen to it enough

1195
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 6: to figure it out.

1196
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 4: Him and the other cat rossn Roll and Kurt out there,

1197
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 4: it was the same kind of thing I was trying.

1198
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 4: I'm just like, all right, maybe I just don't I'm

1199
00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 4: not advanced enough to get it.

1200
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,280
Speaker 6: There's a there's a documentary on Rassiana that you should

1201
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 6: check out. I can't remember the name of it, The

1202
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 6: Three Sided Dream, Thank You Face, The.

1203
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: Three Sided Dream.

1204
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 6: And he did an eight minute performance on The Ed

1205
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 6: Sullivan Show at a time when jazz was not on

1206
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 6: Ed Sullivan at all, And that is some of the

1207
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 6: most electric shit you will see. Like some of the documentary,

1208
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 6: it slows down, it's kind of boring. And but then

1209
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,760
Speaker 6: this makes like if you you check out on Rassiana

1210
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:29,720
Speaker 6: and that you're.

1211
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 3: Good, you know, then I promise you I got it,

1212
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 3: I got it down.

1213
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: You'd be like, oh, I get it.

1214
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 6: Was there?

1215
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,760
Speaker 1: Was your tenure? Was your tenure with Blakeie your first time.

1216
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 2: In a professional like established jazz unit, And was that

1217
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:48,439
Speaker 2: also in the studio or just on the road?

1218
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 1: Well we did. It was all it was mostly on

1219
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 1: the road.

1220
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 6: Yes, it was my first established I did some things

1221
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 6: in New Orleans would established musicians and my dad and

1222
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 6: we had this regular gig these uh, these older New

1223
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 6: Orleans cats, I mean older, like ten years older than me.

1224
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 6: John Badakovich was on drums, David Torkanowski was the pianist.

1225
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 6: His dad was the conductor of Louisiana Philharmonic, the New

1226
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 6: Orleans and uh and uh Jim Singleton on base. And

1227
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 6: they called me and went and said, hey man, we

1228
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 6: got these gigs at Tyler's Beer Guard march y'all come

1229
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 6: play with us. So we had this one gig a

1230
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 6: week where we would come in and play tunes with

1231
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 6: these cats, and you know, went was firing and I

1232
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 6: was just playing a pentatonic scale on everything because that

1233
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 6: you know.

1234
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: But it was great.

1235
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 6: We had a great time. I mean everybody looked out

1236
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 6: for us. I mean we had really cool experiences, you know,

1237
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 6: playing in bars when we were not legal age, and

1238
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 6: it was great.

1239
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 3: Did you ever do anything anytime the New Orleans ever

1240
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 3: do anything with Alan Tucson?

1241
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 1: No, No, no he didn't. They didn't. You know, they

1242
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 1: got to call me. It's not like I'm gonna yo

1243
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: you always be me.

1244
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 3: Well, well that's what I was thinking that did he

1245
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 3: ever call you?

1246
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: That's what I meant because by the time I left

1247
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: me on a seventy.

1248
00:57:58,320 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 3: Nine, Oh okay, gotcha.

1249
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 1: And then when the whole when it all started happening,

1250
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:03,959
Speaker 1: I was in New York. He didn't. They were plenty

1251
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: of sax players he could use at home, but I

1252
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 1: mean here, yes, Art Blake.

1253
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 6: It was my first professional organization and it was mostly

1254
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 6: on the road. Even the record we did wasn't a

1255
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 6: studio record. It was a live record at the Keystone

1256
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 6: Corner in San Francisco.

1257
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 2: Okay, what was your brother's debut album, your first time

1258
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 2: in a studio setting as far as jazz was concerned,

1259
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 2: or yes.

1260
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 1: As far as jazz was concerned.

1261
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, that's not true, because we had done this

1262
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 6: record called Fathers and Sons with me and Winton and

1263
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 6: Dead and uh Chico Freeman and Von Freeman on one

1264
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 6: side and Mean and went and Dead with some new

1265
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 6: with James Black and uh Charles Family Yo Homie on base.

1266
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 6: That was the first thing, Like with Winton's record, Yeah,

1267
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 6: that was the first. Yeah, the second one, you know,

1268
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 6: in the first time in the studio I was a kid.

1269
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 6: There was a guy named a Guy. He did a

1270
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 6: song called Mad Mad Mardi Gras. He hired me Winton

1271
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 6: and this saxophone player, Donald Harrison to play the part.

1272
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 6: And I wrote the arrangements because that was my I've

1273
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 6: been listening to that stuff. So we didn't have a

1274
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 6: baritone sax, so we took an alto and dropped it

1275
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 6: in octave so it sounded like a Barton. We did

1276
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 6: all these crazy things, so we made like a six

1277
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 6: or seven piece horn section on this song, Mad Mad

1278
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 6: Madira from this from this guy in New Orleans.

1279
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: It was It was cool and I played a little

1280
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 1: corny ass so with I guess that debut record.

1281
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 2: Whose idea was it to use the classic Davis quintet

1282
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 2: as the background at least with Us Shorter and your

1283
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 2: brother's moles?

1284
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 1: But Ron Carter and Well Wenton was playing with them.

1285
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: Wenton was doing a tour with them as a quartet

1286
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: with Ron Herby and Tonio. Okay, he was playing. Was

1287
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 1: that by design or just like.

1288
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, they hired him to play on the on the

1289
00:59:57,560 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 6: road with so I'm saying yeah, it was by design.

1290
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 6: So he was on tour with them when they recorded

1291
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 6: that part of the record, it was in Tokyo, and.

1292
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: So went and called me and said, hey, man, you're

1293
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:08,959
Speaker 1: doing the record.

1294
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 6: Fly to Tokyo. I flew to Tokyo.

1295
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: I see just growing up listening to.

1296
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 2: Your records, I have to personally say that, you know,

1297
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 2: I got your The first album I've got of yours

1298
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 2: was Scenes in the City, and the thing that struck me,

1299
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 2: Like I was thirteen when it came out, So the

1300
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 2: one thing that struck me about that record was the

1301
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 2: title cut and the fact that you kind of predated

1302
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 2: Doctor Dre Prince Paul as far as like, you know,

1303
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 2: the way that you crafted that song as a sketch

1304
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 2: or as more like I don't know how to describe it,

1305
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 2: like Stevie Wonderre's the only person.

1306
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: I know that used like.

1307
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 2: Dialogue or Marlena Shaw, she did it a little bit

1308
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 2: on that Uh uh, who'se bitch is this? I forget

1309
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 2: that album and Blue Note, But what was at least

1310
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 2: with the title cut with Scenes of the City, what

1311
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 2: was in your mind frame when you were crafting that

1312
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 2: like as far as presenting a story of poetry and

1313
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 2: the way that you weave in different music genres in

1314
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 2: and out like it's not mine.

1315
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 1: That was unheard of an eighty four, at least for

1316
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: me as a thirteen year old. I never heard anything

1317
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: like that.

1318
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 6: If you passed the prolog that was a mingus mingus

1319
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 6: did it? I heard in the city, Yeah, that would

1320
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 6: be great to do that. And I used my homeboy.

1321
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 6: Wendell Pierce was the narror on it.

1322
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 1: That was Wendell p Wow. Wende it just after New York.

1323
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: He was at Jui Yord like, hey, bro, come.

1324
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 6: Do this for me.

1325
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 1: I'll pay you. Yeah, man, I'll do it.

1326
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 3: That's what's up.

1327
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: I'll pay you.

1328
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 6: You know. He's a student, he's struggling. I'm like, yeah, man,

1329
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 6: you're gonna get paid for this shit. I mean like,

1330
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 6: it's not like in New Orleans where you do me

1331
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 6: a solid, you know, and I write some music for

1332
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 6: your movie.

1333
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: It was like, no, you're gonna get paid to do it.

1334
01:01:57,640 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: Come do this thing.

1335
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 2: Steve Holman, Delta play on that. Steve Coleman, Yeah, oh

1336
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 2: mom boy, okay, stee, all right. So you had some

1337
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 2: inbased ties in there, but yes, and a four in

1338
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 2: base wasn't established.

1339
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 6: It was eighty three. Oh. It was recorded in eighty

1340
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 6: two out of the Vanguard, and I'm like, I'm doing

1341
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 6: this song, man, come do this hit with me. Okay,

1342
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:25,919
Speaker 6: it was him in your Home where Robin you Banks.

1343
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: You know, Smithy was on it, you know, and it

1344
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 1: was just it was yeah, it was just it was

1345
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: a cool thing to do. So yeah, it was a

1346
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:33,959
Speaker 1: it was an old Mingus tune called scenes in the City.

1347
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 2: And I'm talking about those cats because like, I idolized

1348
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 2: those cats growing up like taine uh Kirkland uh even

1349
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 2: staring at Moffett, like what what were those cats like?

1350
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 2: Like in general, he described their musicianship or I get

1351
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 2: the I get the already, I already know.

1352
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: You're you're you're, you're you're deflating my balloon of the

1353
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 1: romanticized musicians thing.

1354
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 6: So no, what I mean, you know they were they

1355
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 6: were complete musicians. It's like that thing everybody heard Tan

1356
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 6: playing with. When I met Tange when.

1357
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 10: I got to Berkeley, I was R and B saxophone player,

1358
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 10: and I'm like, I'm interested in this jazz thing.

1359
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 1: When Tange got to Berkeley, he was basically a fusion.

1360
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 6: Okay, you know Billy cobbham Nerod and Michael Walden, he

1361
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 6: was out of that camp, right, and uh yeah, you know, yeah,

1362
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 6: yeah early well, yeah, when he was playing with so

1363
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 6: it was like we both got there and started checking

1364
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 6: out jazz at the same time, different things, but our

1365
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 6: bass was something else.

1366
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 1: And then we started listening to jazz and he got

1367
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: heavy into the oven thing, and I was listening to

1368
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 1: Wayne playing with Miles Davis and Lester Young and he

1369
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 1: was just a brilliant musician.

1370
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 6: There were a couple of musicians because I had never

1371
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:56,360
Speaker 6: played with Jeff and there were a couple of musicians, So.

1372
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, Jeff Man, I don't know what he's playing.

1373
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 6: That ship's not happening. So I'm like, damn, it must

1374
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 6: be happening then, because if they think it's not happening.

1375
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 6: So I'd say, hey, man, let's do a session. And

1376
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 6: I heard him playing, I'm like, oh, it's killing because

1377
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 6: it was so melodic and it defied what you thought

1378
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 6: the drummer was supposed to do because he was so

1379
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 6: used to hearing him and then playing in the middle of.

1380
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 1: Song, you know, so he was kind of bringing that

1381
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 1: y you know, along with the tony thing. And his

1382
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 1: timing is immaculate. Yeah, and his musicianship is like we

1383
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 1: would like k Kurt Ellen was was doing a record.

1384
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 6: Called The Question about three years ago. Yeah, I was,

1385
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 6: I was thinking about using Tange. It's like some musicians

1386
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 6: said that he's just the kind of cat that's just

1387
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 6: going to play what he wants to play. And it's

1388
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 6: really funny when you have musicians that don't really understand

1389
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 6: jazz language and they airtain play, that's what they think

1390
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 6: he's doing.

1391
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 1: They think he's just playing whatever he wants.

1392
01:04:56,760 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 6: And I just told Kurt Man Tane is one of

1393
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 6: the best musicians on the planet, and he's gonna play

1394
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 6: your music and hook it up to the degree that

1395
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 6: you will be depressed anytime you hear another drummer trying

1396
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:12,760
Speaker 6: to say And when the record was done, he's like,

1397
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 6: I can already tell I'm going to be depressed a

1398
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 6: lot because changes everything he plays is based on what

1399
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 6: the melody of the song is.

1400
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, his logic, his brain was unbelievable.

1401
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 2: How much rope do you give him as a drummer too,

1402
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 2: because what I last storing to him is just his

1403
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 2: ability to change time, signature and reconfigure a song a

1404
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 2: different way that you don't hear it and that's the

1405
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 2: one thing I borrow from him the most, where I'll

1406
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:42,960
Speaker 2: be in the pocket, then I'll, you know, I'll switch

1407
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 2: something in that's still in the pocket, but a different

1408
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 2: time signature, like when the songs, when you're writing these

1409
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 2: songs and you're arranging these songs, like how much leeway

1410
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 2: are you giving him?

1411
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 6: At least in the studio. I know that live is

1412
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 6: a different thing, and you guys just go from your gut, but.

1413
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: No studios like what you hear? What you hear make

1414
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 1: it better? All right?

1415
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 2: I can nerd out on your jazz career a lot,

1416
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:10,959
Speaker 2: but there's other areas of your life and we gotta

1417
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 2: kid on. I got to get to film before you

1418
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 2: even get to your hip hop part. The first thing

1419
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,120
Speaker 2: I saw you and was on probably one of the

1420
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 2: blackest episodes of Saturday Night Live I've ever seen, Malcolm

1421
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 2: Jamar Warner episode with run DMC, and that's back in

1422
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 2: eighty six when they would let filmmakers do these shorts.

1423
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 2: And I guess Spike Lee, yeah, Spikey yeah, ho Warner

1424
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 2: plenty Is that the first time you met with Spike

1425
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 2: or like, how did you how are you even available

1426
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 2: or open to even be in that lane.

1427
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 1: I did some theater in high school and I was

1428
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 1: not afraid that. But I met Spike. Spike. It's really

1429
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:59,240
Speaker 1: funny story. Spike was going around the neighborhood trying to

1430
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 1: get people that she's gotta have it. She's gonna have

1431
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: that's right. So he rings the doorbell me and went.

1432
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 6: Now. They were living in Brooklyn on Washington Avenue, basically

1433
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 6: six box from Spikes.

1434
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 1: He says, hey, you know, hey, man Brandon witness, my

1435
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 1: named Spike Lee.

1436
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 6: I'm a filmmaker. You know, my dad's a musician, you know,

1437
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 6: And it's just like I just want to welcome you

1438
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 6: to the neighborhood. He didn't have the courage to take

1439
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 6: throw us some money for the movie.

1440
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: He never brought it up.

1441
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 6: He never brought it up. He says, you know, my

1442
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 6: dad's a musician. I said, really, what's his name? Bill Lee?

1443
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 6: Went to the bass player. Yeah, how you know that?

1444
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 1: He says, man, we heard your dad when he was

1445
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 1: we were little kids.

1446
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 6: He had this band with like a folk band. And

1447
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 6: I said, oh, ship the descendant of Mike and Phoebe.

1448
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 6: And he goes, oh my god, y'all know that.

1449
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we didn't want to go, but my Dad's aid, yo,

1450
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 1: golf this concert. This guys from New York. And it

1451
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 1: was fun.

1452
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, it was.

1453
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: Storytelling, it was little jazz in it, little folk lore.

1454
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 1: It was great. It was a great little concert. I

1455
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,240
Speaker 1: was like eight or nine, like if I was eight,

1456
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 1: Winton was seven.

1457
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 6: I was nine, Winton was eight. And they came to

1458
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 6: New Orleans and the sending to Mike and Phoebe and

1459
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,520
Speaker 6: that really freaked him out, you know. And and we

1460
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:09,440
Speaker 6: just hung out and had a great time and we

1461
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:11,200
Speaker 6: would see each other on the stupid. And he never

1462
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,920
Speaker 6: asked for any money for the ask O you should have.

1463
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: I would have got a return then some I would

1464
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 1: have done it. But we just hit it off, you know.

1465
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:21,760
Speaker 1: And I go to his house and we would just

1466
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:23,680
Speaker 1: sit around. And then he told me one day I

1467
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 1: had had to shoot this short. You want to be

1468
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 1: in it.

1469
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 6: I'm like, yeah, whatever you want, man, you know. And

1470
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 6: he's playing explaining what it was, and I'm like, yeah,

1471
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 6: I'll stand on the corner in Brooklyn and play.

1472
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 1: Stand on the corner and play and crack jokes on

1473
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: people that went by.

1474
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 6: He's like, just insult people when they walked by. I say, yeah,

1475
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 6: I'm from newmans.

1476
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: Unpressure on me. I hope it's still on YouTube. Yeah.

1477
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:52,280
Speaker 2: It's basically short of Branford needed to rustle up some

1478
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:56,600
Speaker 2: money for for you know, diapers and be a.

1479
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 1: Man formula, carry your child and the great And I

1480
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 1: walked outside. I'm an musician. What do you want me

1481
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: to do? Go be a man?

1482
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 6: So I walked outside. I started playing for chains. Wait

1483
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 6: who who was the on Fulton Avenue?

1484
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:09,560
Speaker 1: It was like the premise of it, if you know

1485
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:10,720
Speaker 1: Brooklyn is hilarious.

1486
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 6: What kind of money you're gonna make?

1487
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's also so how did you get and throw

1488
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 1: Mama from the train? And like, at this point, are

1489
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 1: you damn?

1490
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:24,440
Speaker 5: I forgot about.

1491
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 1: Yes. I think it was after they saw the Sting movie.

1492
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 1: I was just talking all kind of crazy shit in

1493
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 1: the movie. Wait, I do have one Sting question.

1494
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 2: Can you please tell me what you and Sting were

1495
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:42,720
Speaker 2: laughing at at the end of the title track of

1496
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 2: Dreaming of the Blue Turtles?

1497
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 6: Anyway, please please, because.

1498
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 1: You know what someone asked me. Someone asked me, what

1499
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 1: is the genesis of my laugh?

1500
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 2: And I think hearing you two laugh and that goofy

1501
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 2: laughing what like, I can tell there's an inside joke

1502
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 2: so obvious that I.

1503
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 1: When this ship ain't rolling, I'll tell you stink won't tell.

1504
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 6: Me, you'll I'll tell you.

1505
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 1: That's how you do. It's good, it's not.

1506
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 6: Really, it's mundane.

1507
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 1: Really, but still it ain't gonna come from me on record.

1508
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 1: All good, No, I get it. I just when whenever

1509
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 1: that laugh breakdown happens, I just you know, all right,

1510
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 1: you know we've had Spike on the show.

1511
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 2: We've we've we've talked about the scene for five minutes,

1512
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 2: and then after the show was edited and completed, I

1513
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:39,639
Speaker 2: went back to look at this clip, and I believe

1514
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 2: that you had.

1515
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 1: A hand in that fight scene in school days. He

1516
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 1: told you didn't know it wasn't it wasn't. Okay, Well.

1517
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 2: No, no, no, when we I asked him because someone

1518
01:10:57,560 --> 01:10:59,759
Speaker 2: told I think I talked to Ernest Dickerson.

1519
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:04,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ernest told me that when that step show happened,

1520
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: Uh when when the fight occurred?

1521
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:10,719
Speaker 2: That was a real fight. And then I asked Spike

1522
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:12,439
Speaker 2: about it. He was like, yes, that was a real fight.

1523
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:16,200
Speaker 2: And when I went back to look at the.

1524
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:25,880
Speaker 1: Tape, you instac lady went to He's sipping tea right now.

1525
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 1: He's literally I wish I was sipping bourbon.

1526
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:29,679
Speaker 6: Then I tell you the story.

1527
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:33,479
Speaker 1: So I was, what was the deal with school days?

1528
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 1: And was the tension that real?

1529
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 6: For some? It was?

1530
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:38,720
Speaker 2: For some it was.

1531
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 6: I mean, Spike tried to create this environment so the

1532
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 6: light skinned people were in a better hotel and we

1533
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 6: went a raggedy ass hotel. But the reality is is, man,

1534
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 6: he's a professional actress, you know what I mean, you

1535
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 6: didn't have to create that kind of tension. I mean,

1536
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 6: they can create it on command. I really don't remember

1537
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:59,559
Speaker 6: us being mad because we win one hotel and they

1538
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 6: want another one.

1539
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 1: I don't remember that at all. Maybe some people felt

1540
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:03,639
Speaker 1: that way.

1541
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:07,400
Speaker 6: But not the crew I was hanging with. And the fight, well,

1542
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 6: the fight was it was mostly in character. It had

1543
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 6: nothing to do with off set anything. Is we were

1544
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 6: ridiculing the g fi gs throughout the whole movie. Yeah.

1545
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:20,799
Speaker 1: So then they were doing.

1546
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 6: Their little song and we came out with this daddy

1547
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 6: longstroke thing without we're gonna do our step We're gonna

1548
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 6: do our step show, you know, wo daddy, So we're

1549
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:39,599
Speaker 6: coming on onto the stage. Oh yeah, off of that stage.

1550
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:43,760
Speaker 6: I don't really remember and T. C. Campbell's character said

1551
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:46,720
Speaker 6: something to me, so I said something to her. I

1552
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 6: ain't gonna tell you. I don't even remember what I said,

1553
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 6: but it wasn't Connie whatever. And Carlo says, don't you

1554
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:55,559
Speaker 6: talk to about woman like that? So I slapped him

1555
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 6: upside his head and said, shut up, blankety blank, and

1556
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 6: then he bum rush me, and then everybody just bum rushes,

1557
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:04,200
Speaker 6: and then it starts.

1558
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 1: And it's on.

1559
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:09,160
Speaker 3: So like with Spike Yell's cut, are y'all cool after that?

1560
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 3: Or how does it? How does it go?

1561
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 1: What is going on?

1562
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 6: That's all it does all and Fishburn is absolutely furious

1563
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:22,720
Speaker 6: because he says fight scenes need to be choreographed. This

1564
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 6: is how people get hurt. And I didn't disagree with him.

1565
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 6: I didn't think that would happen. It was just we

1566
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 6: were I was in this character and I was the

1567
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 6: whole movie. I was poking and priding at the g FIDS,

1568
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 6: you know, we were all doing it, and it just

1569
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:38,639
Speaker 6: went and it escalated to this thing.

1570
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 1: How long did it take to alleviate that situation? I

1571
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: don't know.

1572
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 6: A minute, maybe, I mean just a minute. It wasn't

1573
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 6: think about fighting. I mean, it's like It's hard to

1574
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:50,639
Speaker 6: fight for three minutes. I mean, you ever tried boxing

1575
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:51,160
Speaker 6: for three minutes?

1576
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Your arms get tired.

1577
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:54,600
Speaker 6: So it was just all that screaming and all in

1578
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 6: a minute men and a half and Spikes laughing his

1579
01:13:56,880 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 6: ass off and rolling, keep it rolling. You know.

1580
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:06,640
Speaker 2: There's a scene in Nobetta that I always wanted to know.

1581
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:09,240
Speaker 2: First of all, was the music created before the film

1582
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:09,719
Speaker 2: was shot?

1583
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1584
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 1: It had to be because they had to choreographed it. Okay.

1585
01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:17,920
Speaker 2: So that said, I was really impressed with the authenticity

1586
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:25,799
Speaker 2: of that first moment when Denzel comes to interrupt Wesley

1587
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:32,719
Speaker 2: solo on stay Hey, and on the soundtrack, you actually

1588
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:37,040
Speaker 2: recreate that moment where you're mid solo and then when

1589
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 2: it comes to the head and you stop. I always

1590
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 2: thought that shit was so genius because I heard the

1591
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,280
Speaker 2: soundtrack first before I saw the movie and wanted to

1592
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 2: know why was that mistake there? So, even even way

1593
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 2: before then, Spike asked you to create a moment in

1594
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 2: which Terrence interrupts your playing and you.

1595
01:14:55,600 --> 01:15:01,839
Speaker 6: Take yeah, wow, okay, Yeah, it was choreographed, totally choreograph.

1596
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 6: They had to be that way because he wanted it

1597
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:04,920
Speaker 6: to be that way. In the film, so we had

1598
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 6: that count for that.

1599
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 2: I see we got to jump to My Rainie because

1600
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 2: I got Eves by question all other ship.

1601
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 3: Yes, oh I love that.

1602
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:15,800
Speaker 1: That was fun.

1603
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:19,639
Speaker 6: Yeah, So My Rainy is very similar because the musicians

1604
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 6: had to choreograph. They had the choreograph, you know, and

1605
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:26,640
Speaker 6: and and my my thing was always about and that's

1606
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:29,439
Speaker 6: the look real And it's really not that hard to do.

1607
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:32,720
Speaker 6: You have to erase any notions of what you think

1608
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 6: musicians are like, and to look at films, you have

1609
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:36,640
Speaker 6: to have.

1610
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 1: A physical presence where you're playing the instrument physically.

1611
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 6: And the most important part is that when there's no

1612
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:45,639
Speaker 6: sound on the on the recording, your fingers should never

1613
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:48,080
Speaker 6: ever be moving. So you need to learn it.

1614
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:50,320
Speaker 1: You don't need to learn how to play the instrument.

1615
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:52,760
Speaker 1: You just need to make sure that windows no.

1616
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 6: Sound, your fingers on moving and you want to close

1617
01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 6: in your eyes and do this and there's no sound coming.

1618
01:15:58,080 --> 01:15:58,839
Speaker 1: That's the giveaway.

1619
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 6: So when we went to UH to do the filming

1620
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:06,680
Speaker 6: in Pittsburgh, I saw some of the early things and said, look,

1621
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:09,639
Speaker 6: I need to meet with the musicians. You know, everybody

1622
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:12,320
Speaker 6: has their handler and they're like, look, you know, the musicians.

1623
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 6: It's like a big thing. It's like a city. So

1624
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 6: the movie people were like, Oh, these guys are the

1625
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 6: stars and they don't have time for this. I'm like, well,

1626
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 6: I'll be honest that The Pirates are playing at one today.

1627
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 1: I'm getting baid. I'm good, you know. So if you

1628
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:28,639
Speaker 1: want them to look like shit on the film, that's

1629
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:31,400
Speaker 1: on you, fine with me. So I went to The

1630
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 1: Pirates Irque?

1631
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 2: Does it irque when directors are sort of dismissive of

1632
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:40,679
Speaker 2: musical authenticity because I am a cat that will watch

1633
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 2: to see what the fingering is to make.

1634
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:45,799
Speaker 1: Sure that I think it's to their detriment.

1635
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 6: Because you want people to believe that something's real, it

1636
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:52,679
Speaker 6: needs to look real and it and it's not super hard.

1637
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 6: Like this was the whole thing that I was telling

1638
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:56,559
Speaker 6: the guys are more better.

1639
01:16:56,600 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 1: It's like, you don't need to learn how.

1640
01:16:57,960 --> 01:17:00,320
Speaker 6: To play an instrument, you just need to under standing

1641
01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 6: answering physically. So when Chadwick was playing, for instance, like

1642
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 6: they finally told me where you can have him for

1643
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 6: half an hour following day, so I had already seen them,

1644
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:11,200
Speaker 6: so I knew what all of the problems were like.

1645
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:14,639
Speaker 6: So Chadwick was playing and he was marching his back

1646
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 6: and playing like that like Miles, And I said, yeah, man,

1647
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,400
Speaker 6: first of all, you playing a cornet number two.

1648
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 1: Miles Davis is two years old. You can't right like

1649
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 1: Miles in nineteen twenty nine.

1650
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:31,160
Speaker 6: Go get some YouTube videos and watch Louis Armstrong play cornett,

1651
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 6: not trumpet, but watching there a couple of videos.

1652
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 1: From him in the early thirties and watching it he

1653
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 1: holds his body and he came back the next day

1654
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 1: he had it, wowd it down.

1655
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:46,400
Speaker 6: He was just a consonant professional and with each musician,

1656
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:49,240
Speaker 6: like Glenn Turnaman was playing piano, and you know piano

1657
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 6: players back then played stride and strid canos. You know,

1658
01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:57,880
Speaker 6: so your hands go from left and right to the center.

1659
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 6: That's essentially what it is. Think I think that's what

1660
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:04,200
Speaker 6: you know. So your hands are going out and then in.

1661
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 6: So when he was doing that, his hands were.

1662
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 11: Going into out. So I'm like, bro, no, no, yeah,

1663
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 11: out in, not into out. And there's certain rhythms.

1664
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:21,479
Speaker 6: You have to know. And then the piano player who

1665
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:23,840
Speaker 6: did the recording was great. He kept it simple.

1666
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 1: So a lot of the music he had this little

1667
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:26,759
Speaker 1: this little rhythm where.

1668
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:31,920
Speaker 6: He's gonna bumped bomp bump bump, bump bom the whole time,

1669
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 6: through all of the changes. And I said, that's your rhythm.

1670
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: Sing it every day, and then when you sing it,

1671
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:40,760
Speaker 1: play and he says, but you know, I don't. I said,

1672
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter.

1673
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 6: When they shoot you, they're going to see your shoulders,

1674
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:46,920
Speaker 6: and if you're not playing the piano, your shoulders won't move.

1675
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:49,720
Speaker 1: So you have to play the piano. They're not going

1676
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:51,759
Speaker 1: to show your fingers. You just have to play that rhythm.

1677
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 1: And he got in. They all got into it, and

1678
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 1: when you see them it looks like they're playing. It

1679
01:18:57,160 --> 01:18:57,839
Speaker 1: made a difference.

1680
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 6: And then Michael Pots re acted, well, he just had

1681
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:02,040
Speaker 6: to show everybody up and learn how to play the

1682
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:04,400
Speaker 6: damn bass. So he was actually playing the bass.

1683
01:19:05,479 --> 01:19:09,240
Speaker 1: Really, you're how long did it take them to nail

1684
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:09,719
Speaker 1: his parts?

1685
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:10,920
Speaker 6: He could play the damn bass.

1686
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:16,040
Speaker 1: It took him no time. He played the BASSA made

1687
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:18,360
Speaker 1: me sick. All right, you go away. And then Coleman

1688
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:21,200
Speaker 1: playing trombone. He was great. I mean, they were great,

1689
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 1: they really, you know, they took to you know, and

1690
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:26,799
Speaker 1: you know, and then I had a little station away from.

1691
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 6: The set because the set was closed, right, and it

1692
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:32,840
Speaker 6: was inside of this big sound stage and we were

1693
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:35,640
Speaker 6: just outside of that with a little keyboard, so they

1694
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:38,000
Speaker 6: would come in if they had any issues with rehearsals

1695
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:39,599
Speaker 6: or questions about things.

1696
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:45,000
Speaker 1: And uh, where would you record? We recorded in New Orleans? Oh, okay.

1697
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:48,759
Speaker 6: New Orleans musicians are perfect because they're the only musicians

1698
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:51,280
Speaker 6: left in the country that had outside voices. I mean,

1699
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:52,479
Speaker 6: speaking generically, but.

1700
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:55,639
Speaker 1: More often than not, I see.

1701
01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:59,800
Speaker 4: Oh, there was a scene in the movie where Chad

1702
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 4: his characters talking about Buddy Bolden, and he's someone that

1703
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:06,719
Speaker 4: there was a movie made about him, like a couple

1704
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:08,880
Speaker 4: of years ago, but there's not a lot that's known

1705
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:11,720
Speaker 4: about him, Like what what was kind of his importance?

1706
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:15,840
Speaker 6: Buddy Bolden is kind of considered to be the father

1707
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:17,840
Speaker 6: of traditional jazz.

1708
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:19,120
Speaker 1: Trypic playing in New Orleans.

1709
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:21,679
Speaker 6: Everybody that heard him says he had the biggest sound

1710
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:23,799
Speaker 6: they ever heard in their lives. There are no recordings

1711
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 6: of him, and there's only one picture of him. He

1712
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:29,360
Speaker 6: had some sort of breakdown, so he didn't you know,

1713
01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:33,080
Speaker 6: sometime in his thirties. But Louis armstrong and got swear

1714
01:20:33,160 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 6: by man, you should have hear everybody, sure It's actually

1715
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:39,320
Speaker 6: a good subject because then you can mythologize all of

1716
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:40,599
Speaker 6: it because no one knows anything.

1717
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:43,240
Speaker 3: He was like the jazz or Manago.

1718
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 1: Everybody talks. All the old guys used to talk about him.

1719
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:56,240
Speaker 3: Okay, Buck shot the funk, dude, we got the funk.

1720
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 1: Go ahead and do it.

1721
01:20:58,280 --> 01:21:01,719
Speaker 5: People waited, fucking premiere books, all the funk.

1722
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 3: Go Come on, man, No, no, you're good. You're it's

1723
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 3: your show. You're the you're the co leader, dude.

1724
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:15,559
Speaker 6: I just wanted to this movie and scoring field welcome

1725
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:16,080
Speaker 6: here you go.

1726
01:21:16,439 --> 01:21:17,160
Speaker 1: All right? Anyway?

1727
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:22,200
Speaker 2: Anyway, look, you're for raising the hip hop. Uh have

1728
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:25,040
Speaker 2: been legendary. I mean, you know we can name them all,

1729
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:25,599
Speaker 2: fight the power?

1730
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:28,040
Speaker 1: Whatnot? What was your attraction to it?

1731
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:33,400
Speaker 2: And again, like coming from the traditional base that you

1732
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:39,120
Speaker 2: kind of entered our our consciousness, Like how easy was

1733
01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:42,080
Speaker 2: this to explain? Or I guess I can hear the

1734
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:44,519
Speaker 2: answer already. You're saying I didn't give a fuck, but

1735
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:52,960
Speaker 2: correct it was there any blowback from like your your

1736
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:57,439
Speaker 2: your inner circle of New Orleans cats or or by

1737
01:21:57,520 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 2: then you left New Orleans, or your family or any

1738
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:01,160
Speaker 2: thing about you know.

1739
01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 1: My family. We got into it.

1740
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 6: It was the whole thing were going on the road,

1741
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:08,720
Speaker 6: and so that wasn't that wasn't encouraged or I mean

1742
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,320
Speaker 6: it was more about it was more philosophical. It was

1743
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:13,600
Speaker 6: more like, you know, he could get anybody to do

1744
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:16,760
Speaker 6: that job. Jazz is really unique and needs you out there.

1745
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:18,639
Speaker 6: And I say, well, way you're wrong, is he can't

1746
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:20,479
Speaker 6: get anybody do to that job. I do that shit

1747
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:23,240
Speaker 6: bet than anybody, So right, and.

1748
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:25,599
Speaker 1: Then it was over. It was like, you know, y'all

1749
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: do what y'all do.

1750
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 6: I'll be back.

1751
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 1: I'll see you in a couple of years. It's great,

1752
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:29,400
Speaker 1: I'd agree.

1753
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:33,000
Speaker 2: So weird man, because I maybe I'm just shocked at

1754
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:36,800
Speaker 2: the perception of that being so short sighted, because that

1755
01:22:36,880 --> 01:22:39,840
Speaker 2: would draw me in seeing you in spaces that quote

1756
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:40,880
Speaker 2: you weren't to us to be in.

1757
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:42,320
Speaker 1: Well, it's not short.

1758
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:44,519
Speaker 6: It brings me back to the base that you came

1759
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:47,920
Speaker 6: from because well not most people. That might be you

1760
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:50,840
Speaker 6: because you're a musician, but most people will not make

1761
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:51,439
Speaker 6: that journey.

1762
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:52,720
Speaker 1: I already knew that.

1763
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:55,439
Speaker 6: I watched, you know, as a as a big you know,

1764
01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:58,280
Speaker 6: headhunter fan and a big Weather reporter fan. I used

1765
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:00,720
Speaker 6: to hear all the musicians, oh yeah, you know, we're

1766
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:03,479
Speaker 6: just bringing jazz to the masses. No, I didn't even

1767
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:06,320
Speaker 6: know you guys played jazz. I went up Berkeley and

1768
01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:08,360
Speaker 6: Smittie Smith put on a never t D record and

1769
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:10,400
Speaker 6: he says, I said, man, who the hell is that?

1770
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 1: He goes man, that's the great Mom's name with Wayne Short,

1771
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 1: I said, Wayne Shorter, like the.

1772
01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:17,840
Speaker 6: Guy who plays with weather Report. He give me it's

1773
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:22,280
Speaker 6: the same guy. I'm like, it is no idea, Herbie Hancock,

1774
01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:26,080
Speaker 6: the guy from Headhunters. And I'm a musician, so no,

1775
01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:29,960
Speaker 6: I mean, that's like, I don't even know why musicians embark.

1776
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:33,040
Speaker 1: On that line that they always come back to their base.

1777
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 6: If you feel like doing some shit, do it. If

1778
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:39,920
Speaker 6: you ain't no good at it, maybe you learn how

1779
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:42,920
Speaker 6: to be better at it. But I was always good

1780
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:44,320
Speaker 6: at it. I was good at it as a kid,

1781
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:47,400
Speaker 6: so it wasn't so traumatic for me.

1782
01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:49,080
Speaker 1: I was just going home.

1783
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 6: So when the machines started in the seventies late seventies.

1784
01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:58,160
Speaker 1: That whole sound was so milk toseed to me.

1785
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:00,960
Speaker 6: Remember the old tr and all the R and B

1786
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:04,200
Speaker 6: songs were suddenly going like from hitting, you know, from

1787
01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:05,200
Speaker 6: fop to.

1788
01:24:05,320 --> 01:24:14,519
Speaker 1: Like post sexual healing. Yes, I know. So I was like,

1789
01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, the ship's over, it's over.

1790
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:22,360
Speaker 6: So for me, sampling started, I'm like, ship the hits back,

1791
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:26,040
Speaker 6: you know, the vibe is back, the attitude is back

1792
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:26,680
Speaker 6: to beat the.

1793
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:29,960
Speaker 1: Swag, you know, and and that was the thing that

1794
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:31,280
Speaker 1: I liked about it the most.

1795
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 2: So have you tried to explain to your family that

1796
01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:37,639
Speaker 2: you know, the music that the Bomb Squad was doing

1797
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:41,960
Speaker 2: was just as urgent as something that they just.

1798
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:44,960
Speaker 6: Because I wouldn't spend any time trying to tell the

1799
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 6: Bomb Squad that they need to check all the love Supreme,

1800
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:48,360
Speaker 6: I wouldn't even waste my time.

1801
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:50,960
Speaker 1: Jazz cats wouldn't come to you. I know Premiere must

1802
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 1: have because half the stuff that he's sampled, Premiere is

1803
01:24:55,160 --> 01:24:56,320
Speaker 1: let's see what I'm saying, is dead.

1804
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:58,760
Speaker 6: Like look, a lot of guys sampled a lot of

1805
01:24:58,840 --> 01:25:01,000
Speaker 6: jazz stuff. They put the album on and they skip

1806
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:03,240
Speaker 6: across until they find something that they like. PROMI you

1807
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:05,599
Speaker 6: would actually listen to the records. Premier is different.

1808
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:08,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you can't use him as a

1809
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:12,000
Speaker 1: metaboor for everybody else. But like most people who are

1810
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:13,839
Speaker 1: good at the thing, that's the thing they're interesting.

1811
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 6: It's like there was this. There was this musician magazine

1812
01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:21,840
Speaker 6: or Rolling Stone the eighties and it's like, give me

1813
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:25,200
Speaker 6: your top ten records or top twenty or whatever it was.

1814
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:27,639
Speaker 6: I think it was top and with all these musicians,

1815
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:30,120
Speaker 6: and they stuck me in. And the hip hop guys

1816
01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:32,679
Speaker 6: picked ten hip hop CDs, the rock and roll guys

1817
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 6: picked ten rock and roll CDs.

1818
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:37,280
Speaker 1: I had all kinds of shit in there. That's just me.

1819
01:25:38,280 --> 01:25:40,599
Speaker 6: So my thing is is that, all right, I'm already weird,

1820
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:42,800
Speaker 6: Like I listened to all these different styles of music.

1821
01:25:43,240 --> 01:25:45,840
Speaker 6: I just think that a lot of people that gave

1822
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:49,679
Speaker 6: went and shit for not liking pop music, but nobody

1823
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:53,040
Speaker 6: gives pop musician shit for not liking anything other than

1824
01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:56,120
Speaker 6: pop music. I've never heard an interview where they say, oh,

1825
01:25:56,120 --> 01:25:57,920
Speaker 6: you know that shit, it's cool, but do you sing opera?

1826
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 6: Doesn't that but a jazz guy, well, do you play

1827
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:04,120
Speaker 6: anything contemporary? Do you play anything pop? Why does he

1828
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:04,720
Speaker 6: have to do that?

1829
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:08,120
Speaker 1: Prince, I mean, Prince said like, look, left handed things

1830
01:26:08,160 --> 01:26:08,719
Speaker 1: about jazz.

1831
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:10,960
Speaker 6: But I never took offense to it, because you know,

1832
01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:13,640
Speaker 6: the ship is daunting to a lot of people, it's intimidated.

1833
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:17,519
Speaker 6: We universally thought that Prince was a genius, and you know,

1834
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:20,000
Speaker 6: he didn't really know a lot about jazz, so he

1835
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:22,800
Speaker 6: would always say, oh jazz whatever.

1836
01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:26,120
Speaker 1: Man, music's still great. It don't matter to me. He

1837
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:27,360
Speaker 1: would do us for a raising to it.

1838
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:30,320
Speaker 3: They tried with Madhouse versions of it.

1839
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:33,240
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I don't want to shot anyway,

1840
01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:37,480
Speaker 1: shot that she was insult.

1841
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:42,880
Speaker 3: Okay, So like Madhouse, I mean, the first eight was cool.

1842
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:45,880
Speaker 3: I mean, the song was that Albue was kind of sad.

1843
01:26:46,120 --> 01:26:48,160
Speaker 1: But those guys the song.

1844
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:50,479
Speaker 3: The song was, but I mean, I wouldn't have them.

1845
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:54,479
Speaker 1: Eric Leeds is my boy, right, it ain't got nothing

1846
01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:55,200
Speaker 1: to do with jazz.

1847
01:26:55,240 --> 01:26:58,240
Speaker 6: He will tell you that hisself, you know what I mean.

1848
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 6: Like Eric Lee's brother is like that James Brown, fucking authority.

1849
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm saying, you know what I'm saying.

1850
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:10,519
Speaker 1: So I mean, and I'm good with that. It's just

1851
01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 1: that this people have this weird relationship with jazz. But

1852
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:15,439
Speaker 1: the thing is that they don't know this shit.

1853
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:17,800
Speaker 6: They have these opinions about the music that they have

1854
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:21,920
Speaker 6: barely heard or barely listened to. And I'm not saying

1855
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:25,519
Speaker 6: that they should because you know, when you do strange

1856
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 6: shit for a living, you.

1857
01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:29,360
Speaker 1: Really something's really got to be wrong with you.

1858
01:27:29,479 --> 01:27:33,920
Speaker 6: When you it's like, you know somebody who's a poet,

1859
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:36,920
Speaker 6: not a slam poet, but a poet. They know what

1860
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:40,799
Speaker 6: that shit means. It means obscurity, and you feel compelled

1861
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:42,840
Speaker 6: to do it anyway. And you have colleagues who are

1862
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:44,799
Speaker 6: just as strange as you are. And there are books,

1863
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:48,240
Speaker 6: there are magazines about poets. Poets talk to other poets.

1864
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:51,479
Speaker 6: They have awards for poetry, and they win these awards,

1865
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:52,960
Speaker 6: and nobody in the world gives it damn.

1866
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:55,200
Speaker 1: You know, I sat on a plane with a guy

1867
01:27:55,880 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 1: who got.

1868
01:27:56,280 --> 01:27:59,160
Speaker 6: An award because in the in the atom chain it

1869
01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:02,160
Speaker 6: was already Einstein theorized that there was seven quarks in

1870
01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:04,720
Speaker 6: the atom chain. They only found six. But I was

1871
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:06,719
Speaker 6: on a plane with the guy who found the seventh court.

1872
01:28:07,479 --> 01:28:09,880
Speaker 6: Don't nobody know his name. Don't nobody give a damn.

1873
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:11,720
Speaker 6: You think he's sitting around saying I'm pissed off that

1874
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:15,560
Speaker 6: I'm not recognized. You love what you do. None of

1875
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:19,280
Speaker 6: that other shit matters. And that's how I feel about

1876
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:21,040
Speaker 6: all of this. I don't you know, how do you

1877
01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:22,120
Speaker 6: feel that people don't like this?

1878
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:25,080
Speaker 1: I like it. I don't give a damn I don't care.

1879
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:29,120
Speaker 1: I like it, you know, well, I like you when

1880
01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:32,240
Speaker 1: you play with the Dead Great. I like that shit too.

1881
01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:37,120
Speaker 1: This thing was great, Yes, he was great. I like

1882
01:28:37,280 --> 01:28:37,599
Speaker 1: that too.

1883
01:28:38,120 --> 01:28:40,639
Speaker 6: What's the point, It's like, what are you trying to say?

1884
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:42,560
Speaker 6: If I didn't like it, I wouldn't do it.

1885
01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:47,080
Speaker 2: You have you met up a collaboration that you were, Man,

1886
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 2: I should have done that because I don't do those?

1887
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:52,040
Speaker 1: Can I time in here? Now?

1888
01:28:53,240 --> 01:28:59,280
Speaker 12: Ive in So I'm collaborated with the late Great Rob Washerman.

1889
01:29:01,160 --> 01:29:03,120
Speaker 12: We had Bruce Hornsby on the show a few weeks ago.

1890
01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:06,000
Speaker 12: I forgot to ask him about this a song called

1891
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:07,640
Speaker 12: White Wheeled Limousine.

1892
01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:12,479
Speaker 6: For on an album called Trios, and no one's ever

1893
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:13,680
Speaker 6: heard of this album, Like.

1894
01:29:14,160 --> 01:29:18,200
Speaker 12: Like, no, people don't care whatever, But you have any

1895
01:29:18,280 --> 01:29:21,759
Speaker 12: recollections of that session or of playing with Rob Washington?

1896
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:22,800
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1897
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:24,800
Speaker 6: Well Rob was always kind of shy. He didn't he

1898
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:28,040
Speaker 6: wasn't a real rose cat. Like I was still living

1899
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:30,600
Speaker 6: in La then, and uh, and Bruce was living in

1900
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:31,960
Speaker 6: La then. He spent a lot of time he was

1901
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:34,200
Speaker 6: staying at Springsteen's house. So Rob kind of said, hey, man,

1902
01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:36,439
Speaker 6: don't you come down one of my tubes? And it

1903
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:38,320
Speaker 6: was assumed because I think Bruce sang on the tune.

1904
01:29:39,080 --> 01:29:41,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. So uh, Bruce said, hey, man, let's go do

1905
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:42,759
Speaker 1: this thing with Washington.

1906
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:44,479
Speaker 6: I'm like, yeah, cool, let's go do it met up,

1907
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:46,040
Speaker 6: you know, And I always tease him because you know,

1908
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:48,080
Speaker 6: he's really he wasn't very shy cat.

1909
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:50,640
Speaker 1: He didn't really and I would always like get in

1910
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:52,000
Speaker 1: his face and be all from bost. I said, what

1911
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:52,600
Speaker 1: do you think about that?

1912
01:29:52,680 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 6: He goes, come on, man, you had a good time.

1913
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:58,840
Speaker 1: I mean we did one rehearsal take and then the

1914
01:29:58,880 --> 01:30:02,120
Speaker 1: real thing and then we hugged and we split. But

1915
01:30:02,240 --> 01:30:05,639
Speaker 1: you had known Rob Washman prior to that. Yeah, oh yeah,

1916
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:09,000
Speaker 1: you know. I made him through how Wilman because Hal

1917
01:30:09,080 --> 01:30:11,080
Speaker 1: had him doing some stuff and then I met Rob

1918
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:15,680
Speaker 1: and I did some other thing with Rob. Yeah yeah, man,

1919
01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 1: I knew all the cats.

1920
01:30:16,600 --> 01:30:16,760
Speaker 6: Man.

1921
01:30:16,920 --> 01:30:19,880
Speaker 5: So, what what did you think of his bass playing?

1922
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:23,920
Speaker 6: It's kind of where where where do you? You don't,

1923
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:24,559
Speaker 6: I don't.

1924
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:26,320
Speaker 1: I don't try to place people.

1925
01:30:26,360 --> 01:30:28,400
Speaker 6: But the thing is is that Rob's bass playing was

1926
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:31,680
Speaker 6: greatful the music he was doing. Yeah, I mean, I

1927
01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:34,040
Speaker 6: mean I like the way he plays bass in the

1928
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:36,120
Speaker 6: stuff that he was doing, Like if he was trying

1929
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:38,599
Speaker 6: to play a love supreme. It probably wouldn't have worked. Yeah,

1930
01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:39,599
Speaker 6: very well.

1931
01:30:39,760 --> 01:30:41,320
Speaker 1: He was playing upright, but it was more like a.

1932
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 6: Stick base, you know.

1933
01:30:42,479 --> 01:30:44,920
Speaker 1: It wasn't like an acoustic upright base. It was like this.

1934
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:48,400
Speaker 6: It was like this solid body electric thing.

1935
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:50,719
Speaker 1: It's like a stick. I think they called it the stick.

1936
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:52,840
Speaker 5: Chapman stick, that Chapman stick.

1937
01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:54,719
Speaker 6: Okay, cool, Yeah, he was playing the Chapmain stick.

1938
01:30:55,320 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 12: Is that the only time you recorded with with with

1939
01:30:58,400 --> 01:30:59,120
Speaker 12: Bruce Hornsby?

1940
01:30:59,760 --> 01:30:59,800
Speaker 6: No.

1941
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:03,320
Speaker 1: I played on a couple of Bruises records, the one

1942
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:08,080
Speaker 1: with the Talk of the Town. I played on that record.

1943
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:10,960
Speaker 1: Aren't you on shadow Lands too? Is that your soprano

1944
01:31:11,080 --> 01:31:14,200
Speaker 1: or is that someone else's? Probably? Okay, Yeah, I was

1945
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:16,840
Speaker 1: about to say, I think you are which record shadow Lands?

1946
01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:23,000
Speaker 1: Spike always uses that, Okay. I do want to know.

1947
01:31:23,720 --> 01:31:28,080
Speaker 2: Have you properly scored a Spike movie at all? Or

1948
01:31:28,240 --> 01:31:31,280
Speaker 2: is that just always Terrence's lane? Like I thought that

1949
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:32,880
Speaker 2: would have been a natural progression for.

1950
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:35,479
Speaker 6: You asked me to do it, and I was on

1951
01:31:35,600 --> 01:31:37,960
Speaker 6: the road, you know, really funny thing is is dead,

1952
01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:40,880
Speaker 6: you know digital audio workstations around then I would have

1953
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:42,120
Speaker 6: done it, but I just said, man.

1954
01:31:42,040 --> 01:31:43,280
Speaker 1: I can't do the music justice.

1955
01:31:43,320 --> 01:31:43,920
Speaker 6: I'm not here.

1956
01:31:44,720 --> 01:31:45,400
Speaker 1: Terrence is here.

1957
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 6: Chance plays keyboards. He's a piano player and a trumpet player.

1958
01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:52,080
Speaker 6: He writes great stuff. Just get Terrence, get Tea, that's

1959
01:31:52,120 --> 01:31:53,080
Speaker 6: your man. It would be great.

1960
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:56,000
Speaker 1: And it's been great because we lived four blocks from

1961
01:31:56,040 --> 01:31:58,920
Speaker 1: one another. Okay. I would see Terence all the time.

1962
01:31:59,560 --> 01:32:01,640
Speaker 4: We had premiere on the show a while back, and

1963
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:05,000
Speaker 4: he would always talk about the time y'all living together.

1964
01:32:05,200 --> 01:32:07,479
Speaker 3: He said, y'all live together for our brother. What was

1965
01:32:07,560 --> 01:32:10,519
Speaker 3: that like his premiere a while dude?

1966
01:32:11,240 --> 01:32:18,280
Speaker 1: Ain't that wow? Son? Well, first of all, we were

1967
01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:20,320
Speaker 1: we were doing spite, wanting me to work with them

1968
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:22,360
Speaker 1: on that jazz.

1969
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:25,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we just hit it off.

1970
01:32:26,439 --> 01:32:27,240
Speaker 6: We just hit it off.

1971
01:32:27,479 --> 01:32:29,240
Speaker 1: And you know they cool kid, did you know?

1972
01:32:29,280 --> 01:32:32,760
Speaker 6: They cool cats and funny and they just mentioned, you know,

1973
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:35,920
Speaker 6: ship man, we just got evicted and say, well, ship man,

1974
01:32:35,960 --> 01:32:36,960
Speaker 6: you know I got this big.

1975
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:39,559
Speaker 1: Ass house in Brooklyn, me and my wife and my kid,

1976
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:42,320
Speaker 1: come on, come hang out. And it wound up being

1977
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 1: six months. What was that last? And it was it

1978
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:51,840
Speaker 1: was like jaw the damage it back then it was

1979
01:32:51,880 --> 01:32:54,840
Speaker 1: just and little dap, you know, from a.

1980
01:32:58,120 --> 01:32:58,920
Speaker 6: Y you know.

1981
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:01,600
Speaker 1: So, so I got hang with the whole crew. You know.

1982
01:33:02,280 --> 01:33:04,160
Speaker 1: It was good. It was fun.

1983
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:08,160
Speaker 4: There was a song on on buck Shot, the first

1984
01:33:08,200 --> 01:33:10,280
Speaker 4: book shot, not the music evolution when the first one,

1985
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:14,960
Speaker 4: ain't it funny? I can't remember who's the girl singing

1986
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:15,200
Speaker 4: on that?

1987
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:20,120
Speaker 3: And what Tammy town Tammy Townsend? What's she up to now? Like,

1988
01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:21,000
Speaker 3: what's her story?

1989
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:21,200
Speaker 6: Do you?

1990
01:33:21,479 --> 01:33:22,519
Speaker 3: I really liked her voice.

1991
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:26,559
Speaker 6: She was She still lives in la and she has

1992
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:29,360
Speaker 6: a couple of shows. She was recently on some show

1993
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:33,920
Speaker 6: on one of those Disney Channel shows. Okay, I don't

1994
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:35,760
Speaker 6: remember which one it was, but she's been on that

1995
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:36,559
Speaker 6: show for a while.

1996
01:33:37,439 --> 01:33:38,000
Speaker 3: That's what's up.

1997
01:33:38,400 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 6: I saw.

1998
01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:43,639
Speaker 1: Disney Channel shows.

1999
01:33:44,040 --> 01:33:45,479
Speaker 3: Okay. I always loved that song.

2000
01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:48,519
Speaker 6: Man. That that one of them things where it's like,

2001
01:33:48,600 --> 01:33:50,760
Speaker 6: you know, I used to you know, I grew up

2002
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:52,120
Speaker 6: listening to del Phonics.

2003
01:33:52,160 --> 01:33:52,280
Speaker 1: Man.

2004
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:54,439
Speaker 6: I always wanted to write something like it. It was

2005
01:33:54,479 --> 01:33:56,120
Speaker 6: a really great thing too, because I said, you know,

2006
01:33:56,520 --> 01:33:58,400
Speaker 6: I'm never gonna do another record like this, so I'm

2007
01:33:58,439 --> 01:33:59,679
Speaker 6: just gonna put all kind of shit.

2008
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:03,519
Speaker 1: You wanted to be. I said, that's the great question.

2009
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:06,559
Speaker 1: Why do we have to answer that question? And everybody

2010
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:08,519
Speaker 1: that was on the project, I would call him and say, hey, man,

2011
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:09,559
Speaker 1: come you on this project and say.

2012
01:34:09,479 --> 01:34:10,840
Speaker 6: What is I said, I have no fun idea what

2013
01:34:10,960 --> 01:34:11,120
Speaker 6: it is?

2014
01:34:11,200 --> 01:34:11,599
Speaker 1: Come play?

2015
01:34:13,479 --> 01:34:15,760
Speaker 6: You know Bill was Lofkin guitar player who was at

2016
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:17,920
Speaker 6: that time playing with Springsteen. I said, hey, I got

2017
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:19,600
Speaker 6: this song for you to come play. What is it?

2018
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:22,519
Speaker 1: I don't know, just come played on one song.

2019
01:34:22,560 --> 01:34:23,280
Speaker 6: And this is great.

2020
01:34:23,320 --> 01:34:24,479
Speaker 1: You have the other songs.

2021
01:34:24,479 --> 01:34:25,559
Speaker 6: I'm like, yeah, I play on this one.

2022
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:27,800
Speaker 1: Greg villain Gains came in.

2023
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:29,760
Speaker 6: Greg, I need doing this thing.

2024
01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:31,640
Speaker 1: He says, what is it? I said, I don't know.

2025
01:34:32,640 --> 01:34:37,120
Speaker 1: It's just this thing, and you got another song. And

2026
01:34:37,240 --> 01:34:39,639
Speaker 1: we was just like we would make ten minute tracks.

2027
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:43,760
Speaker 1: Every song was ten minutes long. And they said, well

2028
01:34:43,800 --> 01:34:45,200
Speaker 1: when we figure what the hell it is, then we

2029
01:34:45,240 --> 01:34:45,960
Speaker 1: can whittle it down.

2030
01:34:45,960 --> 01:34:47,680
Speaker 6: But we didn't know what it was. Who's going to sing?

2031
01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:48,360
Speaker 6: Who's gonna do this?

2032
01:34:48,400 --> 01:34:50,800
Speaker 1: We would put these tracks together except for that song,

2033
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:51,519
Speaker 1: Ain't it funny?

2034
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:52,439
Speaker 6: And uh?

2035
01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:58,200
Speaker 1: I got Tammy to sing it? And I used, when

2036
01:34:58,320 --> 01:35:01,040
Speaker 1: was it? Claire fish who wrote the string whoa?

2037
01:35:01,439 --> 01:35:02,479
Speaker 3: Clairefris read the strings?

2038
01:35:02,520 --> 01:35:05,600
Speaker 6: Claire Friser bro so Claire raised the string arrangers and

2039
01:35:05,640 --> 01:35:06,760
Speaker 6: you know Claire's a hard ass.

2040
01:35:07,120 --> 01:35:11,320
Speaker 1: Yes, so he writes the string arrangers, and he has both.

2041
01:35:11,640 --> 01:35:15,960
Speaker 6: He has Arco bass, so I'm like, okay, Claire, yeah,

2042
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:18,800
Speaker 6: I don't need the Arco bass because we have a

2043
01:35:18,880 --> 01:35:22,599
Speaker 6: bass player playing in the classes with the bass. He's

2044
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:26,920
Speaker 6: so used to doing these productions with these producers that

2045
01:35:27,080 --> 01:35:29,960
Speaker 6: don't know shit, so he says, well, why don't you

2046
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:31,760
Speaker 6: come out here and show me the parts that you're

2047
01:35:31,800 --> 01:35:34,400
Speaker 6: talking about passive aggressive?

2048
01:35:34,720 --> 01:35:37,320
Speaker 1: And I said okay, And I walked out there and.

2049
01:35:37,320 --> 01:35:38,120
Speaker 6: I looked at the score.

2050
01:35:38,439 --> 01:35:41,160
Speaker 1: I took a pencil. I said from here to here,

2051
01:35:41,280 --> 01:35:43,240
Speaker 1: and he says, oh, oh no, it's fine, no problem.

2052
01:35:43,280 --> 01:35:44,759
Speaker 1: As soon as he realized I could read.

2053
01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:46,680
Speaker 3: The score, he realized you knew what it was.

2054
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:49,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, I didn't have to deal with this ship anymore.

2055
01:35:49,960 --> 01:35:52,200
Speaker 1: But he's just he you know, he would like to

2056
01:35:52,400 --> 01:35:55,080
Speaker 1: like get these poor producers in there and hire me,

2057
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:58,800
Speaker 1: and he would like humiliate and I'm like, nah, I

2058
01:35:58,920 --> 01:36:01,160
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about here, get the base out

2059
01:36:01,160 --> 01:36:03,400
Speaker 1: of there. And he struck the base and yeah, not,

2060
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:06,040
Speaker 1: We're good, you know, And it was a good It's

2061
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:09,479
Speaker 1: a great arrangement, except you know, the bases. But I

2062
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:11,240
Speaker 1: enjoyed that whole project. It was great.

2063
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:14,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was I was fifteen in the camp and

2064
01:36:14,640 --> 01:36:16,840
Speaker 4: that was like my sophomore year high school when it

2065
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:17,280
Speaker 4: came up.

2066
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:23,080
Speaker 3: You know, no, man, I was not you.

2067
01:36:23,240 --> 01:36:25,800
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you, like, like, right man, this record sucks.

2068
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, okay, what is it?

2069
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:31,040
Speaker 6: I don't know. That's the good bro. I'm just telling

2070
01:36:31,080 --> 01:36:31,280
Speaker 6: you what.

2071
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:34,400
Speaker 1: Happened, right you. You weren't the one. I wasn't talking

2072
01:36:34,439 --> 01:36:40,479
Speaker 1: to you. Okay. You have these writers and they say, well,

2073
01:36:40,680 --> 01:36:43,120
Speaker 1: there's a rapper on it, so it must be hip hop.

2074
01:36:43,680 --> 01:36:47,400
Speaker 1: No it's not right, it's not it's.

2075
01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:49,360
Speaker 6: Just like not what you're trying to make it. And

2076
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:53,479
Speaker 6: even on Colombia. Columbia, they they had this meeting with

2077
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:56,240
Speaker 6: them and they said this. You know, it's like they

2078
01:36:56,280 --> 01:36:58,160
Speaker 6: have this this is what they do with black people.

2079
01:36:58,240 --> 01:37:01,160
Speaker 6: Think so we got a street team out there. I'm like,

2080
01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:03,240
Speaker 6: your street team? Are you fucking crazy? This is not

2081
01:37:03,320 --> 01:37:04,160
Speaker 6: a street team record.

2082
01:37:04,240 --> 01:37:06,320
Speaker 1: No, it's gonna buy it. They're not gonna buy this record.

2083
01:37:06,800 --> 01:37:09,040
Speaker 1: And they said, so we have our.

2084
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:11,680
Speaker 6: Street team and we put up stickers. All of us said,

2085
01:37:11,720 --> 01:37:14,160
Speaker 6: oh my god, this is not that kind of record.

2086
01:37:14,920 --> 01:37:18,200
Speaker 6: But they didn't have a plan B for a black

2087
01:37:18,240 --> 01:37:21,439
Speaker 6: person that wasn't making a jazz record. It's like they

2088
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:24,439
Speaker 6: have this machine and they're gonna stick you in the machine,

2089
01:37:24,920 --> 01:37:27,479
Speaker 6: and they're gonna put the record in the in the

2090
01:37:27,560 --> 01:37:30,080
Speaker 6: hands of DJ's and I'm like, who aren't gonna play it?

2091
01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:32,200
Speaker 1: And they're like and they just but they didn't. They

2092
01:37:32,280 --> 01:37:36,200
Speaker 1: couldn't conceptualize the idea that they couldn't put it into

2093
01:37:36,280 --> 01:37:38,720
Speaker 1: the box that they put all the arts?

2094
01:37:39,439 --> 01:37:41,560
Speaker 3: Was it a little better for the second album of

2095
01:37:41,640 --> 01:37:42,880
Speaker 3: Music Evolution? Did they get it?

2096
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:46,519
Speaker 1: But by then I was like, Okay, I already know

2097
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:47,200
Speaker 1: what this shit is.

2098
01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:49,599
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know what I mean, I'm not even I'm

2099
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:53,240
Speaker 6: just if they try to have a publicity meeting with me,

2100
01:37:53,320 --> 01:37:55,720
Speaker 6: I'm just not even gonna attend. Because we had a

2101
01:37:55,800 --> 01:37:58,120
Speaker 6: band by then, and we were touring and we were

2102
01:37:58,200 --> 01:38:01,599
Speaker 6: having a good time, and we started some of those

2103
01:38:02,000 --> 01:38:04,559
Speaker 6: what do they call it jam bands, like String.

2104
01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:09,240
Speaker 3: Seasons, Keller Williams Government, you know, we.

2105
01:38:09,280 --> 01:38:10,920
Speaker 1: Start playing with these bands and like it was going

2106
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:11,800
Speaker 1: to be its own thing.

2107
01:38:12,520 --> 01:38:14,280
Speaker 6: I don't know. I just decided, yeah, I don't know

2108
01:38:14,280 --> 01:38:16,120
Speaker 6: if I want to be doing this when I'm fifty. So,

2109
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:19,280
Speaker 6: you know, we got to that last tour Frank wanted

2110
01:38:19,320 --> 01:38:20,840
Speaker 6: to go out. The singer wanted to go out and

2111
01:38:20,920 --> 01:38:21,639
Speaker 6: do his own thing.

2112
01:38:21,800 --> 01:38:22,599
Speaker 3: This is Frank McComb.

2113
01:38:22,640 --> 01:38:26,719
Speaker 6: Frank McComb, Frank mccolly, his own thing. The trumpet player,

2114
01:38:27,080 --> 01:38:29,800
Speaker 6: Russell Gunn wanted to go do his own thing. So

2115
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:31,280
Speaker 6: it all kind of just I said, well, if y'all

2116
01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:32,519
Speaker 6: ain't doing it, I don't.

2117
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:33,519
Speaker 1: I don't even want to do this.

2118
01:38:34,280 --> 01:38:36,439
Speaker 3: And were you doing Tonight Show as well around this time?

2119
01:38:37,400 --> 01:38:44,640
Speaker 1: I didn't want to ask you questions. I want this

2120
01:38:44,800 --> 01:38:48,840
Speaker 1: to be to be Tonight's Show, free interviews. Oh it's fine,

2121
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:49,560
Speaker 1: I was doing it.

2122
01:38:50,120 --> 01:38:52,559
Speaker 6: So I was doing it Tonight Show when we were

2123
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:55,080
Speaker 6: producing the first buck Shot record.

2124
01:38:55,479 --> 01:38:58,120
Speaker 1: Okay, but I left the show at ninety five.

2125
01:38:58,479 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 6: I left the show in ninety five tour with the

2126
01:39:01,520 --> 01:39:03,839
Speaker 6: band that you know that became Buckshot.

2127
01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:05,120
Speaker 1: I can dig it.

2128
01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:08,720
Speaker 3: Did you just enjoy that more than doing being on TV?

2129
01:39:09,640 --> 01:39:11,479
Speaker 1: I think that, which is what I told you.

2130
01:39:12,080 --> 01:39:15,840
Speaker 6: If Tonight Show we're in New York, I probably would

2131
01:39:15,840 --> 01:39:19,640
Speaker 6: have stayed. But there's no way living in Los Angeles,

2132
01:39:20,160 --> 01:39:25,320
Speaker 6: there was no consistent creative musical outlet. So if I

2133
01:39:25,479 --> 01:39:28,120
Speaker 6: was going to stay, I was basically gonna be saying

2134
01:39:28,160 --> 01:39:30,280
Speaker 6: that I was giving up playing music because there was

2135
01:39:30,400 --> 01:39:33,560
Speaker 6: no place to play and there was no audience for it,

2136
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:37,519
Speaker 6: so we were playing gigs and restaurants. It was just

2137
01:39:37,720 --> 01:39:41,200
Speaker 6: really and then and then I could start a feeling

2138
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:43,800
Speaker 6: slipping away. So it really wasn't about the show or

2139
01:39:44,000 --> 01:39:47,120
Speaker 6: Jay or any of those other things. It's just my instincts,

2140
01:39:47,960 --> 01:39:51,080
Speaker 6: you know. I just it was a simple question. If

2141
01:39:51,120 --> 01:39:52,840
Speaker 6: you stay here, you're gonna make a lot of money.

2142
01:39:53,479 --> 01:39:56,640
Speaker 6: So is that okay that you make a lot of

2143
01:39:56,720 --> 01:39:59,519
Speaker 6: money and you do this show and you cease being

2144
01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:02,519
Speaker 6: a function musician on the level that you're accustomed to

2145
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:05,560
Speaker 6: on the and the and the answer was no. But

2146
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:07,120
Speaker 6: if it had been in New York, where I could

2147
01:40:07,120 --> 01:40:09,920
Speaker 6: go still like play gigs at night and keep my

2148
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:11,760
Speaker 6: chops up and keep that whole music and get that

2149
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:16,000
Speaker 6: musical input. But it is a very isolating place. It's

2150
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:17,840
Speaker 6: a very isolating place. So I was really excited for

2151
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:20,920
Speaker 6: you all, especially when Jimmy was gonna move to New York.

2152
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:22,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this is great, man. You get to be,

2153
01:40:23,320 --> 01:40:24,920
Speaker 1: you know, in the city, and you can play gigs

2154
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:25,920
Speaker 1: afterwards if you want to.

2155
01:40:25,920 --> 01:40:29,120
Speaker 2: Do that, you're around. He wanted to come to l

2156
01:40:29,160 --> 01:40:33,559
Speaker 2: a for a second what they were they were trying

2157
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:35,960
Speaker 2: to consider it, like maybere'd you go to l A.

2158
01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:40,679
Speaker 2: But that's when the other that's when the other Jimmy

2159
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:42,519
Speaker 2: was starting to pick up some heat.

2160
01:40:43,439 --> 01:40:44,720
Speaker 3: Ah got you.

2161
01:40:45,439 --> 01:40:46,120
Speaker 6: You didn't want to do it.

2162
01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:50,439
Speaker 2: You've done everything I forgot. You're on Chinese's like, I

2163
01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:51,480
Speaker 2: love your smile.

2164
01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:55,960
Speaker 1: All this shit. So I get paid for that ship

2165
01:40:56,040 --> 01:40:58,840
Speaker 1: either Noda got you?

2166
01:40:59,240 --> 01:41:03,760
Speaker 6: Damn man, I don't really care because all out what

2167
01:41:03,880 --> 01:41:05,280
Speaker 6: I got was like two undred fifty bucks.

2168
01:41:05,280 --> 01:41:08,240
Speaker 1: Anyway, right, He's like, you know, you're like, do you

2169
01:41:08,360 --> 01:41:11,320
Speaker 1: know the union rate? Whatever it was you need whatever

2170
01:41:12,120 --> 01:41:12,599
Speaker 1: we were playing.

2171
01:41:12,640 --> 01:41:15,720
Speaker 6: We're playing a gig at this jazz club Caesars East

2172
01:41:15,720 --> 01:41:17,720
Speaker 6: in Memoryville, and Narady came to the gigs Man, I

2173
01:41:17,800 --> 01:41:20,639
Speaker 6: need you to play on this too. I went, okay, yeah,

2174
01:41:20,760 --> 01:41:23,439
Speaker 6: sure when tonight. I'm like, bro, come on, He goes.

2175
01:41:23,320 --> 01:41:28,240
Speaker 1: Please creaking singer Shitise Wilson, it's gonna be a big hit, said,

2176
01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:29,519
Speaker 1: I don't care if it's gonna be a big hit.

2177
01:41:29,560 --> 01:41:30,599
Speaker 6: Man, I don't want to get to sleep.

2178
01:41:31,080 --> 01:41:32,479
Speaker 1: He said, man, can you assus that? Fine?

2179
01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:35,160
Speaker 6: So we went over the bridge to Marine County, where

2180
01:41:35,200 --> 01:41:38,439
Speaker 6: his crib was and he said, this is her rough track,

2181
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:40,880
Speaker 6: and I played at the rough time. I never met her.

2182
01:41:41,479 --> 01:41:45,000
Speaker 1: Oh okay, never met her. I thought you negotiated that

2183
01:41:45,120 --> 01:41:47,920
Speaker 1: shout out, so you know, no, I asked him not

2184
01:41:48,040 --> 01:41:48,360
Speaker 1: to do it.

2185
01:41:49,360 --> 01:41:50,000
Speaker 3: He said wow.

2186
01:41:50,120 --> 01:41:52,080
Speaker 6: He said, yeah, man, I'm gonna get it to say

2187
01:41:52,120 --> 01:41:54,200
Speaker 6: blow brand for go. I said, please don't do that because, okay,

2188
01:41:54,240 --> 01:41:54,839
Speaker 6: I won't.

2189
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:03,640
Speaker 1: Comes out. I'm like, no, I knew it was. I

2190
01:42:03,720 --> 01:42:05,720
Speaker 1: knew everywhere I went I was gonna hear that.

2191
01:42:11,280 --> 01:42:12,160
Speaker 3: First Miss bell Air.

2192
01:42:12,240 --> 01:42:17,439
Speaker 1: His cameo, oh yeah, I forgot. Yeah, well we were

2193
01:42:17,439 --> 01:42:20,080
Speaker 1: in the same studio. That's what made it work. Oh okay,

2194
01:42:21,240 --> 01:42:22,559
Speaker 1: that's right, NBC. I forgot.

2195
01:42:24,280 --> 01:42:27,479
Speaker 2: Was there a collaboration opportunity that was presented to you

2196
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:30,560
Speaker 2: that you couldn't do that wound up being something significant?

2197
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:35,840
Speaker 6: Not that I can think of, Okay, okay, like what

2198
01:42:36,200 --> 01:42:38,639
Speaker 6: I don't even know, like no, no, no, I just meant.

2199
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:41,920
Speaker 2: Like a chance to do like a I don't know,

2200
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:44,879
Speaker 2: playing on a track called quest record, Like someone requesting

2201
01:42:44,960 --> 01:42:47,720
Speaker 2: you to do something and you weren't able to do

2202
01:42:47,800 --> 01:42:50,719
Speaker 2: it because of scheduling reasons they were they would never.

2203
01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:55,360
Speaker 4: No, okay, I don't think that, man, Yo, So I

2204
01:42:55,439 --> 01:42:57,559
Speaker 4: didn't realize have you and Dave Matthews done anymore?

2205
01:42:57,600 --> 01:42:59,479
Speaker 3: Because I saw that you would play.

2206
01:43:00,000 --> 01:43:02,479
Speaker 4: It was a live version of Loverly Down, which was

2207
01:43:02,560 --> 01:43:04,960
Speaker 4: like one of my favorite Dave Matthew songs.

2208
01:43:05,160 --> 01:43:06,000
Speaker 1: We did that in rally.

2209
01:43:06,520 --> 01:43:09,960
Speaker 6: But yeah, well, you know Jeff Coffin, the guy who

2210
01:43:10,000 --> 01:43:12,519
Speaker 6: pleted the saxophone player in the band. Yeah, I guess

2211
01:43:12,840 --> 01:43:15,519
Speaker 6: h Leroy really liked me. I didn't really get to

2212
01:43:15,600 --> 01:43:18,120
Speaker 6: know Larroy that well. The one time that they played

2213
01:43:18,120 --> 01:43:20,519
Speaker 6: in New York, They're playing at Jones Beach and I

2214
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:22,760
Speaker 6: want to take my son, so they're like, come sit

2215
01:43:22,840 --> 01:43:24,639
Speaker 6: in with the band. I said, nah, my son's ten,

2216
01:43:24,840 --> 01:43:26,240
Speaker 6: We're just gonna go to a concert. And they have

2217
01:43:26,479 --> 01:43:29,360
Speaker 6: like a you know, falling sun night out. Go hear

2218
01:43:29,400 --> 01:43:31,519
Speaker 6: the music, you know. And then I wrote them a

2219
01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:33,680
Speaker 6: nice letter because they hooked up the tickets and I

2220
01:43:33,720 --> 01:43:35,120
Speaker 6: wrote them a nice letter to the man in the

2221
01:43:35,200 --> 01:43:36,600
Speaker 6: saying thanks. It was great, you know.

2222
01:43:37,200 --> 01:43:39,599
Speaker 1: And the next time I come play, and then Leroy

2223
01:43:39,720 --> 01:43:42,000
Speaker 1: had that weird ATV accident and died.

2224
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:45,040
Speaker 6: It was wild. But I know Jeff Coffin really well,

2225
01:43:45,600 --> 01:43:47,200
Speaker 6: so Jeff will call me and say, hey, man, the

2226
01:43:47,240 --> 01:43:49,720
Speaker 6: guys want you to come play, and I'm like going, shit, okay, yeah,

2227
01:43:50,400 --> 01:43:52,639
Speaker 6: sim Rawley, that's forty minute drive from me, so I'll

2228
01:43:52,680 --> 01:43:53,080
Speaker 6: come through.

2229
01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:55,360
Speaker 1: And then it just started to do they say, hey,

2230
01:43:55,400 --> 01:43:56,240
Speaker 1: can you make this gig?

2231
01:43:56,320 --> 01:43:58,240
Speaker 6: And you do this? And you know, yeah, anytime I

2232
01:43:58,280 --> 01:43:59,840
Speaker 6: could do it, I'm happy to do it. That was

2233
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:02,120
Speaker 6: I mean, it's a great band. I love the band

2234
01:44:02,280 --> 01:44:04,360
Speaker 6: so and they write great songs.

2235
01:44:05,320 --> 01:44:08,200
Speaker 2: How how long does it take you, especially when you're

2236
01:44:08,360 --> 01:44:11,080
Speaker 2: doing a Dead and Company or even when you were

2237
01:44:11,120 --> 01:44:15,519
Speaker 2: doing Grateful Dead. Their catalog is so damn expansive. How

2238
01:44:15,560 --> 01:44:18,040
Speaker 2: long does it take you to study that? Or like

2239
01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:19,519
Speaker 2: did they just tell you to get in where you

2240
01:44:19,560 --> 01:44:21,120
Speaker 2: fit in? Or like how does that work?

2241
01:44:21,160 --> 01:44:23,120
Speaker 6: And I do? Then I go in to play and

2242
01:44:23,160 --> 01:44:25,280
Speaker 6: they just they call that something like unlike a lot

2243
01:44:25,320 --> 01:44:27,880
Speaker 6: of men. Those guys used to just call the songs

2244
01:44:27,920 --> 01:44:31,240
Speaker 6: on the stage. They didn't have any set list. I

2245
01:44:31,280 --> 01:44:34,559
Speaker 6: would always kind of you lay back in the first

2246
01:44:35,240 --> 01:44:37,960
Speaker 6: churse I wouldn't play, And I was learning the form,

2247
01:44:38,479 --> 01:44:42,320
Speaker 6: learning the forum and listening to the ideas that they

2248
01:44:42,400 --> 01:44:44,439
Speaker 6: play in the little motifs and where can I play

2249
01:44:44,439 --> 01:44:45,200
Speaker 6: and where is it fit in?

2250
01:44:45,280 --> 01:44:48,000
Speaker 1: So then on the second course, if I can get

2251
01:44:48,040 --> 01:44:49,360
Speaker 1: in there. I'll get in there, and if I can't,

2252
01:44:49,439 --> 01:44:50,200
Speaker 1: I just won't play.

2253
01:44:51,120 --> 01:44:54,160
Speaker 4: I see, man, I want to know. I want you

2254
01:44:54,240 --> 01:44:56,559
Speaker 4: to talk about your time a Central. That's my alma

2255
01:44:56,600 --> 01:45:00,400
Speaker 4: mad I graduated in one. What brought you this Central?

2256
01:45:00,520 --> 01:45:02,400
Speaker 3: And what is the climate?

2257
01:45:02,640 --> 01:45:02,680
Speaker 6: Like?

2258
01:45:03,040 --> 01:45:05,360
Speaker 4: You know you're talking earlier about all the gospel players.

2259
01:45:05,840 --> 01:45:07,559
Speaker 4: It was very much like that when I was there

2260
01:45:07,840 --> 01:45:09,320
Speaker 4: as well. Everybody came out of church.

2261
01:45:09,640 --> 01:45:10,360
Speaker 3: What's it like now?

2262
01:45:10,720 --> 01:45:13,800
Speaker 6: They're great? I mean this some of the most. I

2263
01:45:13,880 --> 01:45:16,519
Speaker 6: mean there's some of the most. They're just great. They're

2264
01:45:16,560 --> 01:45:20,920
Speaker 6: just great kids, and they're not ambitious. And that's perfect

2265
01:45:20,960 --> 01:45:23,200
Speaker 6: for me because when you go to those regular music schools,

2266
01:45:23,240 --> 01:45:25,960
Speaker 6: so many of the musicians are ambitious. You know.

2267
01:45:26,120 --> 01:45:28,639
Speaker 1: Like we had a situation where one of our students

2268
01:45:29,880 --> 01:45:30,639
Speaker 1: had some problems.

2269
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:34,519
Speaker 6: She had to go to the hospital, and all of

2270
01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:38,000
Speaker 6: the kids start texting and saying, you know, we need

2271
01:45:38,080 --> 01:45:40,000
Speaker 6: to go to the hospital. We need to be with

2272
01:45:40,080 --> 01:45:43,360
Speaker 6: our girl. I mean, men, men, the whole thing. Everybody,

2273
01:45:43,439 --> 01:45:45,599
Speaker 6: when you're gonna tell me when you go into the hospital,

2274
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:48,720
Speaker 6: like that happened at Berkeley, they'd be like, well, yeah,

2275
01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:49,120
Speaker 6: that's too.

2276
01:45:49,080 --> 01:45:49,920
Speaker 1: Bad, you know.

2277
01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:52,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, So what time is the hit? I mean it

2278
01:45:52,280 --> 01:45:54,800
Speaker 6: was just like a whole different kind of thing, you know,

2279
01:45:54,920 --> 01:45:58,880
Speaker 6: the uh we uh Joy Calgarazzo and I went to

2280
01:45:58,960 --> 01:46:01,000
Speaker 6: this restaurant and they were a lot of the singers

2281
01:46:01,040 --> 01:46:02,800
Speaker 6: from the vocal on some and so, what are y'all

2282
01:46:02,800 --> 01:46:05,360
Speaker 6: doing this? Because of COVID, we can't meet the freshmen,

2283
01:46:05,439 --> 01:46:07,960
Speaker 6: so we just meet him here and we sit around.

2284
01:46:08,200 --> 01:46:11,320
Speaker 6: So you got upperclassmen needing freshmens to just have lunch

2285
01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:15,720
Speaker 6: with them because they can't be together under the normal circumstance.

2286
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:19,080
Speaker 6: So I just love the camaraderie and the energy. I mean,

2287
01:46:19,200 --> 01:46:22,400
Speaker 6: it's it's it's it's an amazing place. Ara Wiggins runs

2288
01:46:22,439 --> 01:46:23,280
Speaker 6: the program and eat.

2289
01:46:23,520 --> 01:46:24,680
Speaker 3: Yeah it was there when I was there.

2290
01:46:25,040 --> 01:46:27,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Wiggans, you know, he's my boss.

2291
01:46:27,680 --> 01:46:30,160
Speaker 6: So I mean, they've just set up such a great

2292
01:46:31,120 --> 01:46:34,679
Speaker 6: environment there and the kids are really curious and really smart,

2293
01:46:35,080 --> 01:46:39,000
Speaker 6: and some of them are super talented too, you know,

2294
01:46:39,200 --> 01:46:41,560
Speaker 6: and they just use the material and then move on

2295
01:46:41,680 --> 01:46:42,519
Speaker 6: and do other things.

2296
01:46:43,680 --> 01:46:45,920
Speaker 4: Do you have to have the talk with you know,

2297
01:46:46,080 --> 01:46:48,439
Speaker 4: being who you are, do you have to kind of

2298
01:46:48,479 --> 01:46:50,640
Speaker 4: have that talk with the students? Like I watched the

2299
01:46:51,479 --> 01:46:54,920
Speaker 4: actually a elling like master class he was doing where

2300
01:46:55,000 --> 01:46:57,000
Speaker 4: he just told the kids straight up. He was like, look,

2301
01:46:57,080 --> 01:46:58,760
Speaker 4: this is not your big break, Like, we ain't here

2302
01:46:58,840 --> 01:47:01,600
Speaker 4: for that. Do you have to do something similar with

2303
01:47:01,720 --> 01:47:04,040
Speaker 4: the kids now? So do they understand this education and

2304
01:47:04,200 --> 01:47:07,240
Speaker 4: not I'm trying to get on impress Branford.

2305
01:47:07,640 --> 01:47:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's different. It's a different thing because

2306
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:11,120
Speaker 1: it's not a masterclass.

2307
01:47:11,680 --> 01:47:14,760
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm there, they see me all the time,

2308
01:47:14,840 --> 01:47:16,600
Speaker 6: and I dog them when they first get there, so

2309
01:47:16,640 --> 01:47:17,760
Speaker 6: I scared the hell out of them.

2310
01:47:18,160 --> 01:47:20,759
Speaker 1: So it takes them almost a whole year to figure

2311
01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:22,080
Speaker 1: out that I was just fucking with him.

2312
01:47:25,000 --> 01:47:27,200
Speaker 6: You know, the upper clansmen know what it is because

2313
01:47:27,200 --> 01:47:29,720
Speaker 6: they went through I don't say nothing, and the kids

2314
01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:31,320
Speaker 6: are scared down, egg shells and.

2315
01:47:31,360 --> 01:47:32,920
Speaker 3: All of it, you know.

2316
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:36,760
Speaker 1: And then eventually they realized, man, he's just playing me.

2317
01:47:37,280 --> 01:47:40,679
Speaker 1: So then the whole thing it opens up and it's cool,

2318
01:47:41,240 --> 01:47:43,000
Speaker 1: you know, it opens up and it's cool. But yeah,

2319
01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:46,599
Speaker 1: it's uh. I take it very seriously, and I kid

2320
01:47:46,640 --> 01:47:47,200
Speaker 1: around with him.

2321
01:47:47,200 --> 01:47:48,560
Speaker 6: We joke. I mean, we have a good time, but

2322
01:47:48,640 --> 01:47:51,639
Speaker 6: it's a serious thing and it's more about thought process,

2323
01:47:51,920 --> 01:47:53,720
Speaker 6: Like I don't even really want to hear him play,

2324
01:47:54,520 --> 01:47:56,840
Speaker 6: you know. And once they and I told him, I said,

2325
01:47:56,840 --> 01:47:59,080
Speaker 6: the lessons ain't gonna get good till it ain't about playing.

2326
01:47:59,720 --> 01:48:03,120
Speaker 1: And what the upper classmen do is because they are

2327
01:48:03,160 --> 01:48:04,120
Speaker 1: half hour lessons.

2328
01:48:04,600 --> 01:48:06,679
Speaker 6: You know, before COVID, there would be half hour lesson

2329
01:48:06,720 --> 01:48:10,559
Speaker 6: starting at ten thirty, So three people would sign up

2330
01:48:10,640 --> 01:48:14,280
Speaker 6: for ten thirty, eleven, and eleven thirty, and then it

2331
01:48:14,360 --> 01:48:16,160
Speaker 6: would all come at ten thirty and we would just

2332
01:48:16,200 --> 01:48:16,959
Speaker 6: play music.

2333
01:48:16,760 --> 01:48:17,880
Speaker 1: And talk for an hour and a half.

2334
01:48:18,840 --> 01:48:21,479
Speaker 6: Wow, gotcha, you know so, and then it became this

2335
01:48:21,560 --> 01:48:25,080
Speaker 6: thing where the lesson wasn't your private lesson. It was

2336
01:48:25,200 --> 01:48:28,760
Speaker 6: like a class that other students were monitoring you. And

2337
01:48:29,400 --> 01:48:31,400
Speaker 6: sometimes people just come in to check out the lesson.

2338
01:48:31,439 --> 01:48:33,640
Speaker 6: I'm like, yeah, come on in. And then some of

2339
01:48:33,680 --> 01:48:36,360
Speaker 6: the students would say, well, you know, man, I didn't

2340
01:48:36,360 --> 01:48:37,560
Speaker 6: think he was going to be I said, man, you

2341
01:48:37,640 --> 01:48:40,000
Speaker 6: want to play for people for a livid you better

2342
01:48:40,040 --> 01:48:41,120
Speaker 6: get used to the idea.

2343
01:48:40,920 --> 01:48:43,040
Speaker 1: Of criticizing you and checking you out and all this

2344
01:48:43,160 --> 01:48:46,120
Speaker 1: other shit. You know, you don't have secret lessons. I mean,

2345
01:48:46,160 --> 01:48:48,479
Speaker 1: it was the big deal you bad at something.

2346
01:48:48,520 --> 01:48:51,000
Speaker 6: Shit, what's wrong with him knowing? And then they're like

2347
01:48:51,040 --> 01:48:53,640
Speaker 6: all right, cool, yeah, so you have kids coming and

2348
01:48:53,720 --> 01:48:55,760
Speaker 6: sitting on other kids lessons this is a great it's

2349
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:56,599
Speaker 6: a great situation.

2350
01:48:57,120 --> 01:48:57,640
Speaker 3: That's what's up.

2351
01:48:57,680 --> 01:48:57,760
Speaker 6: Man.

2352
01:48:57,880 --> 01:49:00,320
Speaker 1: See, I'm waiting for a black version of which Lash

2353
01:49:00,400 --> 01:49:01,439
Speaker 1: to come out in the movies.

2354
01:49:06,160 --> 01:49:08,559
Speaker 6: You had an experience like the experience in Whippers.

2355
01:49:08,600 --> 01:49:10,800
Speaker 1: I said, no, I'd beat it if he touched me.

2356
01:49:10,920 --> 01:49:17,080
Speaker 6: Like the writer was like, he was like, really, trust me,

2357
01:49:17,400 --> 01:49:17,760
Speaker 6: trust me.

2358
01:49:19,840 --> 01:49:20,759
Speaker 1: They get me in the class.

2359
01:49:21,479 --> 01:49:23,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's happening.

2360
01:49:23,640 --> 01:49:25,120
Speaker 1: It's going down well.

2361
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:27,120
Speaker 2: I mean, but do you come from a place where

2362
01:49:27,960 --> 01:49:31,920
Speaker 2: you feel like this generation might be too used to

2363
01:49:32,040 --> 01:49:33,600
Speaker 2: praise and but.

2364
01:49:33,680 --> 01:49:36,320
Speaker 6: I don't care. I guess they are used to praise,

2365
01:49:36,400 --> 01:49:38,720
Speaker 6: but I don't care. I mean, so you don't use

2366
01:49:38,760 --> 01:49:42,560
Speaker 6: the tough teacher approach like or to the to the

2367
01:49:42,640 --> 01:49:47,240
Speaker 6: JK approach. They would call it a tough teacher okay,

2368
01:49:47,680 --> 01:49:50,000
Speaker 6: like throwing ship and all of that. But I'm not

2369
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:52,439
Speaker 6: gonna throw something on it. They suck, they suck. I

2370
01:49:52,600 --> 01:49:54,240
Speaker 6: just tell him they suck. But I'm gonna tell him

2371
01:49:54,240 --> 01:49:56,840
Speaker 6: why they suck. I'm not gonna sit there. It's not

2372
01:49:56,960 --> 01:49:57,800
Speaker 6: like I'm gonna have to.

2373
01:49:58,080 --> 01:49:58,360
Speaker 1: I'm not.

2374
01:49:58,479 --> 01:50:01,719
Speaker 6: I'm not trying to establish my dominance over you because

2375
01:50:02,200 --> 01:50:05,040
Speaker 6: I don't have this deep tragic thing where I was

2376
01:50:05,080 --> 01:50:07,640
Speaker 6: on a bandstand and I was humiliated. So I'm going

2377
01:50:07,720 --> 01:50:10,599
Speaker 6: to act that on on every student that psycho trauma

2378
01:50:10,680 --> 01:50:13,640
Speaker 6: that you know JK. Simmons character had. Then they've been

2379
01:50:13,720 --> 01:50:18,200
Speaker 6: my experience. Oh okay, okay, it's not been my experience, No, band,

2380
01:50:18,880 --> 01:50:21,800
Speaker 6: I appreciate it. And you know I've been dying for

2381
01:50:21,880 --> 01:50:24,840
Speaker 6: this moment. But I know that you hate when cats

2382
01:50:24,920 --> 01:50:29,040
Speaker 6: be nerd out on you. I do, you know, every

2383
01:50:29,120 --> 01:50:31,519
Speaker 6: second of the day, so I really appreciate you taking.

2384
01:50:31,360 --> 01:50:34,000
Speaker 1: The time out. I appreciate you. Thanks for inviting me

2385
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Speaker 1: to speak to me.

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01:50:35,240 --> 01:50:36,479
Speaker 3: No, thank thank you man.

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01:50:36,520 --> 01:50:38,920
Speaker 4: And just as a as a as a central graduate man,

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01:50:39,000 --> 01:50:41,040
Speaker 4: it really means a lot that you're like, you know,

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01:50:41,240 --> 01:50:42,880
Speaker 4: at my university, man, like.

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01:50:42,920 --> 01:50:47,280
Speaker 1: That can't imagine being nowhere else. It's awesome.

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Speaker 2: Well on behalf of unpaid bill Sugar, Steve uh bigelow uh.

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Speaker 2: This quest Love with the great Grandpa Marcellus Quest Love

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01:50:58,280 --> 01:51:00,320
Speaker 2: Supreme and we will see one of the next around.

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01:51:00,400 --> 01:51:04,000
Speaker 6: Thank you very much. Yo.

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01:51:04,120 --> 01:51:05,160
Speaker 3: What's up? This is Sponte.

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01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:07,840
Speaker 4: Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at

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01:51:07,960 --> 01:51:10,280
Speaker 4: QLs and let us know what you think we should

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01:51:10,280 --> 01:51:11,320
Speaker 4: be next to sit down with us.

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Speaker 3: Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast all Right Peace.

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01:51:20,640 --> 01:51:23,480
Speaker 1: What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.