1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye. 2 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much 3 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Would like to open today's episode by saying, Hey, 4 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: shout out to everyone who is celebrating a birthday or 5 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: just celebrated one, or celebrating an anniversary. Shout out to 6 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: all those kids class of twenty who just graduated. Great job, guys, Uh, 7 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 1: you know, hopefully you still enjoyed this tremendous milestone despite 8 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: the different social distancing you know, laws in effect. Hi, 9 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 1: I'm Ben, Hey Ben, I'm no Ben. Did you ever 10 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: have a birthday where someone popped for a human being 11 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: to pop out of your cake? Uh? No, not, not 12 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: that I'm aware of it, And I'm pretty glad I 13 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: didn't because, you know, not to sound too much like 14 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: a germophobe, but I'd be worried about eating the cake afterward, 15 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? I mean, you know it's true. Uh, 16 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: there are measures that historical measures even that have been 17 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: put in place, but they're all a bit on the 18 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: blunt instrument side, you know what I mean. Like, I 19 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: don't find that any of them were particularly precise or 20 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: well thought out. Um, but yeah, I've never had a 21 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: human being pop out of a cake in my presence, 22 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: scantily clad female or otherwise. I I would, honestly, I 23 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: don't like surprises. First of all, I don't like jump scares, 24 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: as they call them in the horror movie genre, So 25 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: I would be a little irritated if someone did that 26 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: for me. I would. I would call it more doing 27 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: it to me. It's a weird it's so, I know, 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: and I wish we would save this, honestly for weird 29 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: historical flexes, which I think will be rearing It's weird 30 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: exy head again in the near future. But for now, 31 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot to this story, the weird, dark and 32 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: troubling history of women popping out of cakes. Who knew? 33 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: Who knew? Uh? I think I, like many of us, 34 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: had sort of assumed this was one of those old 35 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: saws that maybe really happened once, and then it became 36 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: embellished as the years went on. Oh, we should check 37 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram. Have you, in fact had someone 38 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: jump out of a cake at a celebration in on 39 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: your Behalf? I have not had a direct personal experience 40 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: of this, however. Um The first thing that came to mind, 41 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: was the sequence in the Steven Seagal vehicle under Siege? 42 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: What did it involve a spray of machine gun fire? 43 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: It did? Indeed, after pretty soon after the cake jumping 44 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: event occurred, I think, yeah, wait, wait, wait, did uh 45 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: Steven Seagal's character whatever his name is in this Uh 46 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: did Steven Seagal's character jump out of the cake and 47 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: shoot guns? Because that would be dope objectively? Uh? Yeah, 48 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: you know, I have to I have to fess up. 49 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: I don't even remember if it's him that jumps out 50 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: of the cake or like a bad guy, or it's 51 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: actually just like a model or something that does it. 52 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 1: But there's something involving cake jumping on a cruise shop. 53 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: You know, it's funny. Casey uh, casey on the case. Indeed, 54 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: with that one, we're going to get to a historical 55 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: precedent that that was paying homage to. That is not 56 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: the the the only, the lone example of a of 57 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 1: someone popping out of a of a cake and and 58 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: and shooting machine guns. Did you reach, guys realize that 59 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: Under Siege was a pretty unsuccessful uh franchise? If I'm 60 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: not mistaken. Wasn't there a sequel to under Siege? Did 61 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: it involve be a different type of vehicle being under siege? 62 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: Wasn't the first one a ship and the second one 63 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: was like a train? Maybe that I make that up? 64 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: Under se You are correct, No, under Siege to Dark 65 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: Territory ve Uh. It also had Steven Seagal in it. 66 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: He was playing Casey right back. Uh hopefully not uh, 67 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: not related to our own Casey. But I don't want 68 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: to put you in a box. I don't want to 69 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: put you in a cake here, Casey. I don't want 70 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: you to be in a corner. So if you want to, uh, 71 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: if you want to do a remake, a reboot of 72 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: under Siege, I morally support you, not financially, but morally, 73 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: just for the record. Under Siege one ship, under Siege 74 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: to train. So wait a second, they did get Seagull 75 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: for the second one. Yeah, that's why I'm saying they 76 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: have the train and Seagal. It makes me wonder, Casey, 77 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: if you're thinking of some sort of really direct to 78 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: DVD third under Siege movie that we've all completely forgotten about, 79 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: this could be. This could be. I mean, if you 80 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: see the stuff Segall is doing now, it's it's pretty 81 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: impressively terrible, especially his music videos, which are a story 82 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: for another day. I want to get back to the 83 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: cake aspect here, because you know, it's true. This even 84 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: though we've seen this as a trope in a lot 85 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: of film, TV shows, cartoons and go on, uh, it 86 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: really does happen. It's actually happened in the past. It's 87 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: actually happening in the modern day, especially in place in 88 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: you know, like dens of hives of scum and villainy 89 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: like Vegas. Nowadays, the cakes are usually made from a 90 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: sort of flimsy cardboard. I think that's part of the 91 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: the health precautions that that we alluded to earlier. But 92 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: it turns out that people have been putting not just people, 93 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: but other living things in food for the purpose of 94 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, um, snickers and giggles. Since we're family show 95 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: for for hundreds and hundreds of years, like our first 96 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: our first look at this takes us all the way 97 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: back to ancient Rome. Correct. Yeah, And and I have 98 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 1: a personal real problem with this situation for obvious reasons 99 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: that if anyone's longtime listeners will very quickly queue into um, yeah, 100 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: it's true. Revelers in ancient rome Um would often serve 101 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: up bizarrely decadent dishes at these kind of gluttony parties, 102 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: you know, these sort of back and aals that were 103 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 1: rife with drunkenness and even you know, overeating to the 104 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: point of vomiting. You know, we all know about that 105 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: and the idea of these vomitoriums. It was a real 106 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: time of excess, and they would often uh like these 107 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: these chefs I guess or these you know, um royal 108 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: caterers or whatever, would try to like one up each 109 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: other by putting weirder and weirder creatures into these dishes, 110 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: stuffing them, uh, serving up well, they would actually first 111 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: of all cook the actual animals. Will get to the 112 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: live aspect of it later, but things like peacocks or ostriches. 113 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: I have had Ostrich jerkey. I think you have to 114 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: Ben because you're kind of the jerky guy. You're the 115 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: exotic jerky guy. Ostritch Pretty pretty okay. I can get 116 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: behind that. Um dor mice. What's a dormouse? I know 117 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: it's that character from uh they say, dead as a dormouse, 118 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: isn't it a character from Alice in Wonderland? Isn't an 119 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: actual mouse? I don't know. We'll get to that in 120 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: a little bit, but maybe not. I'm I'm I'm holding 121 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: off from interceding, but but I will jump in to 122 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: hit those two points. Yeah, there are actual dor mice. 123 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: And then also, jerky guy UM is a little bit misleading. 124 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: I just tend to eat a lot of weird stuff 125 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: in my weird adventures um, And actually, you know I'm not. 126 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: I'm not the biggest jerky fan. It's interesting in game because, 127 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: like with sausage, UM, jerky from game Animals is usually 128 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: just cover with spices to kind of get rid of 129 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: the taste, but ostrich itself if you can get it fresh. 130 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: Not bad, not bad at all. It's almost got more 131 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: of a beef like quality to it because it's a 132 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: very dark meat, because it's obviously a very lean animal, 133 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: and it almost tastes more like steak or something. But Ben, 134 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: I didn't mean to mischaracterize you as the jerky guy. 135 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: I just meant that you are probably one of the 136 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,559 Speaker 1: people who, in my life I've known to have eaten 137 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: the most unusual of jerkys. So that let me caveat that. 138 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: But I like where you're going with this because we 139 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: know that food has always been and you know, as 140 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: much of an occasion as it has been a sustenance, 141 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: particularly for the elites of the world. Right. Uh, like 142 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: a lot of medieval cuisine this will baffle people, but 143 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: a lot of medieval cuisine, uh placed this huge emphasis 144 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: on making things taste like things. They weren't so making 145 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: foul tastes like fish and so on. They were. Yeah, 146 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: they were always David Copperfield esque stunts, you know, like, um, 147 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: like we we see the the modern version of this 148 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: interur ducking. Right, that's that's the one where it's like 149 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,599 Speaker 1: a what is it, It's a chicken stuffed inside a 150 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: duck inside a turkey. Well, I think it's gotta go 151 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: Russian nesting doll styles, so it would be the biggest 152 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: on the outside. So I think the turkey would be 153 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: the outside, and the duck inside the turkey and the 154 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: chicken inside the duck. So okay, So like I said, yeah, 155 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: because a chicken give me smaller, right U? Yeah, so 156 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: likes this is an old, old practice. People have been 157 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: stuffing an animal inside another one, uh, since the days 158 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: of Rome, since the glory that was room. Yeah, it's true. 159 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: Um and and and uh you know, today's episode is 160 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: obviously about live things human or otherwise, um popping out 161 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: of other things, and we're definitely gonna get to that. 162 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: But there was a whole period to where you know, 163 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: the pageantry of these uh, these dinner parties was really 164 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: on full display. Um. Chefs would even create these kind 165 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: of imaginary creatures known as cock and tress, which was 166 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: like this just bizarre kind of Norman Batesy kind of 167 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: splicing of like a pig and a chicken um into 168 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: this totally new animal. And then there was also a 169 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: historian named Patronius wrote of all of these dishes that 170 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: were made to look like they were still alive, this 171 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: idea of fish swimming in the sea of sauce using 172 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: some maccabb kind of you know mechanism, and and and 173 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: a rabbit that had birds wings sewn onto it made 174 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: to look like some sort of bizarre pegasus. Uh. But 175 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: then Ben, we get into the period of of medieval times, 176 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: and you made a really good point earlier, this idea 177 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: of stuff tasting like other things. Um. One thing that 178 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: there's a really great show called Heston Blooman Falls Feast 179 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: or something like that, and he's this really interesting chef 180 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: out of the UK who's all about like kind of 181 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: tricking the mind into and when when flavors are concerned, 182 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: and he um would recreate a lot of these dishes 183 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: that we're gonna talk about in a second, one of 184 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: which was he made like a really delicious piece of 185 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: fruit that actually was made of meat. Um. And that 186 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: was a thing to this idea of kind of tricking 187 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: the senses and subverting expectations. But in those medieval days 188 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: we really got into the most grotesque and kind of 189 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: maccab area of using live and moles um. And that's 190 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: when you start to see the idea of like a 191 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: suckling pig with an apple in its mouth made to 192 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: look like it was kind of still alive. Um. That 193 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: was where that sort of trope comes from. But once 194 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: we get into uh deeper into the medieval period, uh, 195 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: just just the appearance of an animal being alive wasn't 196 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: enough anymore, right, right, Yeah, So we moved past the 197 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: the edible dioramas that people were making where it looked 198 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: like the fish were swimming and looked like, you know, 199 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: these various animals from mythology were real and on the 200 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: banquet table to the use of birds and frogs. They 201 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: were placed into pies and this was uh, this was 202 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: pretty popular. Actually, this was not a one off thing. 203 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: You can actually find some recipes for this in Italian cookbooks, 204 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: one especially from fourteen seventy four. A guy named Maestro 205 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: Martino explains the nuts and bolts of this. You make 206 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: a hole in the bottom crust of a pie, you 207 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: put another pie inside, and then in the empty space 208 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: that remains around the pie, put live birds as many 209 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: as you can hold in there. And they should be 210 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: placed in just before this thing can be served, so 211 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: that they're still, you know, healthy enough to fly. And 212 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: when it's served, before everybody seated at the bake, wait 213 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: you remove the cover, the birds fly away. This is 214 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: done to entertain and amuse your company, and then, in 215 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 1: order to make sure that they don't get disappointed by this, 216 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: make sure they know there's also a real pie. I 217 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: want to shout out one book in particular. You guys 218 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: can see it because we're on camera here. This is 219 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: a book by one of my favorite nonfiction um writers, 220 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: a guy named Mark Kurlanski. It's called Choice Cuts, And 221 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about medieval food, check 222 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: this book out. He didn't pay me to say this. 223 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: I just I love the guy. Yeah, and stuff like 224 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: this kind of lived on in song and these nursery rhymes. Um, 225 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: the song sing a song of sixpence? How is the 226 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: lyric about four and twenty blackbirds being baked in a pie? 227 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: Actually mentioned this to a friend of mine who's a 228 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: superhistory buff, and he was unaware of this was an 229 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: actual thing that they that people did, and I was 230 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: only aware of it because of that Heston Blumenthal show. 231 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: And he does do this actual recipe. And the key 232 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: is like, you know, having that ridge sort of like 233 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: reservoir on the outside around the actual pie, so the 234 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: birds can like crap all over that part, I guess. 235 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: But again, you want to put them in there pretty 236 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: quickly before you do this. They don't have too much 237 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: time to you know, do their business inside of the 238 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 1: and the food stuff. But still seemingly not a particularly thoughtful, 239 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: um mechanism to keep the food clean. Yeah, I don't 240 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: imagine Peter would be particularly enthused about this. Uh. We 241 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: do want to mention, of course, families like the Medici's, 242 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: you know, of Italian infamy, were known for creating these 243 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: kind of things. These were not dishes you would make 244 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: it home to like surprise your kids. Uh. The Medici's 245 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: get sited in the sixteen hundreds for bringing frogs into 246 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: the mix, and the entirety to your point about feeling 247 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,719 Speaker 1: like a person jumping out of a cake would be 248 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: a surprise at you instead of for you. The frogs 249 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: were definitely meant to be a surprise at someone, causing 250 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: the noble women to lose their minds. I love you 251 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: you're pointing out the song because I also thought that 252 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: was just uh, I don't know, some some whimsical j 253 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: June nonsense June. I don't know this word, Ben, I 254 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: love it. Please tell me so. June is one of 255 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: those beautiful English words that doesn't get used often. Actually 256 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: it's a French word, I believe, but you can use 257 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: it in English. It just means simplistic or superficial. Why 258 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: I'm adding that to my at to my arsenal of 259 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: new words, Ben, thank you for that. And so, like 260 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: we said, um, you know, this does eventually kind of escalate. 261 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: I guess we can say to using actual humans, but 262 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: that doesn't happen until this trend kind of you know, 263 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: fell out of fashion. Because obviously it was kind of 264 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: gross and absurd, and uh, you know, people got into 265 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: more like the idea of having delicious food instead of 266 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: weird flex pageantry, you know, like with for French cuisine 267 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: and stuffan. Obviously there's you know, still things like the 268 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: order lawn, that rare songbird that people would eat covering 269 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: their faces to hide their shame from God. Like in 270 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: a single bite, they would eat this tiny little bird, 271 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: bones and all um. But apparently that's a delicacy and 272 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: it is supposed to be not only a weird flex 273 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: but pretty tasty and and you know braizen in butter 274 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: and fried or some something like that. I don't know 275 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: if you get a sauce with your order lawan or 276 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: if you're just supposed to eat it all in one go. 277 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: It's a weird one. You're it's so small, uh that 278 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: you you really it's just a few bites. It's like 279 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: a topa got it. It's like like it's like a 280 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: like a hand roll or something, right, Um, But yeah, 281 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: the human component really doesn't come in until the sixteenth century. Yeah, 282 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: that's correct. This is weird. A lot of this comes 283 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: to us from a researcher named Jesse d hurl butt. Uh. 284 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: He was at the symposium on Medieval Studies over Indiana University, 285 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: and he tells some stories that sound I'll just say it, 286 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: they sound patently untrue. It's weird that the truth is 287 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: stranger than fiction. Here there's a guy named Philippe le Bone. 288 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: He's a famous French engineer, and once upon a time 289 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: true story. He threw a party where twenty eight musicians 290 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: were baked in a giant meat pie, and they came 291 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: out of the pie playing their instruments again. You know, 292 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: I can see how the spectacle of that is amazing. 293 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: That's a cool concert. I guess Kanye West doing something 294 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: like that, But I don't think I would want to 295 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: eat the pie. You know these people do They have 296 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: shoes on, and they washed their hands. These very important 297 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: questions Bennett, just to quickly point out him, not to 298 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: as sult anybody's intelligence. But these are pies more like 299 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: a like a pasty or a meat pie, like a 300 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: giant pot pie. Uh, usually with beef and vegetables and 301 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: some kind of gravy um with a nice crust on 302 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: the outside. So this wouldn't have been a sweet pie. 303 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: This would have been a savory pie. Um. Yeah, yeah, 304 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: just really quickly to point that out. Uh. And then 305 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,959 Speaker 1: in sixt six we have an example um perpetrated I'm 306 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 1: gonna say, by the Duke and Duchess of Buckingham Um, 307 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: who were presenting Charles the First and his wife with 308 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:41,479 Speaker 1: a similarly novelty giant pie. This one filled with with 309 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: the dwarf. Is it okay? It's dwarf? Okay? Is that 310 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: what we say? Well, we're quoting the historical context here, uh. 311 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 1: And people have still used the phrase. I don't know 312 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: if you want to go with um little person, but 313 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: I I find little person to be more neignrative and 314 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: condescending for something. I just want to know what the 315 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: actual community uh things. I thought that dwarf was okay, 316 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: but maybe that's that that sounds wrong, So let's just 317 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: go with that as the historical context here. Yeah, we're 318 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: saying that because that's what they said, and that is 319 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: what they said. And this was a gentleman by the 320 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: name of Sir Jeffrey Hudson, a k a. Lord Minimus, 321 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: the Queen's Dwarf, and he was wearing a full suit 322 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: of armor so absolutely meant to poke fun at this 323 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: gentleman's stature and make a mockery of him. Uh not 324 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: cool or okay at all, um, But this is the 325 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: kind of stuff that the royals got off on back 326 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: in those days. We also have to mention, of course, 327 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: it's similar to the idea of hermit gardners, the fact 328 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: that people had would would make a career out of 329 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: being a novelty for the wealthy. There is an argument 330 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: to be made that perhaps uh, Sir Hudson had a 331 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 1: better existence at the time than he would have otherwise, 332 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: just physically but mentally. That stuff has to take a 333 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: toll on you. You know what I mean. I don't 334 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: want to be paid to be the court amusement. But 335 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: now onto the cake cake Cake, cake Cake. By the 336 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, we know uh this, we know a story 337 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: that um of someone named Susie Johnson. Now we do 338 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: want to say as we go into this a bit 339 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: of a disclaimer. Like we said at the top, parts 340 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: of this story take a dark turn. This does delve 341 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: a little bit into the world a true crime, um. 342 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: But we think it's fascinating and we think it would 343 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: be unfair of us if we didn't tell the whole 344 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: story to the best of our ability. Yeah, and and 345 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: to to to to piggyback off of that disclaimer, it 346 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: does involve some violence towards women um and some sexual assault. Uh, 347 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: but the guilty parties ultimately get their come up and 348 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 1: send this story, which is this is another reason that 349 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: I thought it was an interesting one to include. Um. 350 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: So let's start off with the story of Susie Johnston. UM. 351 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: Show girls jumping out of cakes in the fifties was 352 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: a was a big old thing, became super mainstream. That's 353 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: probably where most of us have seen this trope is 354 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: in some sort of suare involving rich, wealthy you know, 355 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: well dressed gentleman smoking cigars and drinking you know, their 356 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: scotches and uggling some sort of scantily clad young woman 357 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 1: that pops out of the cake. Right, Yeah, like some 358 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: kind of uh stereotypical bombshell doing some like Happy birthday, 359 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: Mr bosy Day. It's kind of yes. Yeah. So by 360 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds, this this concept of live people coming 361 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: out of baked goods starts to be limited in its demographic. 362 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: It's primarily going to be uh, conventionally attractive women, and 363 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: they're gonna be a decadent parties thrown by the aristocrats 364 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: of the modern age, wealthy dudes right often in industry, 365 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: probably some aristocrats too. So we want to introduce to 366 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: this story a character. I would call him a prominent 367 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: antagonist in this story. His name is Stanford White. As 368 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: you can imagine if you have biases toward names, that's 369 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: that's the name that sounds like a well off guy. 370 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: He's a wealthy architect. He specializes in building houses and 371 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: religious buildings for his wealthy friends and other institutions in 372 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: New York City. On MA he throws a dinner party 373 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: where we believe around fifty other equally well off men, 374 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: uh come into play and attend this. This is weird, Okay, 375 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: these guys are such jerks. One of them is such 376 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: a jerk. Uh. It's a party ostensibly a wedding anniversary 377 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: for a polo player named John Elliott cow To and 378 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: and uh, I just want to point out before we 379 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: get into anything else, it's his wedding anniversary party and 380 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,239 Speaker 1: his wife is not invited. Yeah, conspicuously not invited. Uh. 381 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: There are no women on the guest list, only on 382 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: the staff, and pretty much all of them are very 383 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: scantily clad. Um. So we had a handful of models 384 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: that would entertain the male guests, you know, serving them 385 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: their their brandies and their coffees and there you know, 386 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: fine delicacies of oysters and clams and champagne cocktails, etcetera. 387 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: There was even a rumor that the hair colors of 388 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: the staff of of models was coordinated to go with 389 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: the wine courses, so the brunettes would pour the red wine, 390 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: the blonds would pour the white. Um, there's a lot 391 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: of apocryphal kind of like built into this story because 392 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: of one of the accounts that we're going to get into. 393 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: But um, i'd know that seems like the kind of 394 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: obscene bacchanalien flex that like a guy like this would 395 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: would would be into agreed, Like he's definitely trying to 396 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: impress his his attendees, and his his attendees are famous 397 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: in their day. Nicola Tesla was there, uh an illustrator 398 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: named Charles Dana Gibson who is the creator of the 399 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: famous Gibson Girl. And you know they're there are loads 400 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 1: and loads of who's who's attending this place, right And 401 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: according to what we understand again about this story, it 402 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:40,479 Speaker 1: was Stanford White's idea to involve Susie Johnson. So she 403 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: was the big ticket performance of this dinner party. After 404 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: these guys have gnashed to their hearts content, they bring 405 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: out this enormous pie. And then, according to Evelyn Nesbitt, 406 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: who also plays a role in this story, out of 407 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: this pie jumped Susie Johnson. She was only wearing a 408 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,199 Speaker 1: flimsy piece of of see through gauze. And you know, 409 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: this might sound like it's kind of body otherwise goodhearted 410 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: Vegas style fun, but I need we have to point 411 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: out this girl was sixteen years old. Uh. And and 412 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: there were also a lot of birds that jumped out 413 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: with us. So they flew out in the room. The 414 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: sixteen year old girl, addressed in virtually nothing, uh, pops 415 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: out and uh it's like, you know, happy anniversary or whatever. 416 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: Where's your wife? Yeah, it's true that the pie was 417 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: full of nightingales and other songbirds. I got a question 418 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 1: for you, Ben, just just on a purely practical kind 419 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: of functional level, what do you do now you just 420 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: accept that they are just birds roaming around your party 421 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: for the rest of the evening, is there a bird 422 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 1: wrangler that then goes and scoops them all up and uh, 423 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: you know he hurries them off into some back room 424 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: to be dealt with or what happens to these birds? 425 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: We we we don't ever, nobody ever talks about that, right, right, 426 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: This is impor point because not all birds behave equally. Right. 427 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: If they were releasing a bunch of a bunch of EMUs, 428 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: it would be hilarious, but they would be tougher to wrangle. Uh. 429 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,479 Speaker 1: So you know, if they were releasing trained pigeons, then 430 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: the pigeons would just fly to wherever they were supposed 431 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: to roost. What kind of birds did they have? It 432 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: was more than one? Right, Yeah, I think I said 433 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:26,400 Speaker 1: nightingales earlier. They also were using canaries and doves, um, 434 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: you know, and doves. Doves are trainable, they're they're used 435 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: in magic shows a lot, and there they behave pretty well. 436 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 1: I think canaries are also, you know, domesticated birds. I guess, 437 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: let's say, for lack of a better term, don't know 438 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: about nightingales. Um. I just know that song in Nightingales 439 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: sang in Harvard Square. But I digress. So yeah, I 440 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: would personally leave the party immediately if this were to happen. 441 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: I would consider it a personal affront and would have 442 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: been very upset that no one gave me the heads up. 443 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: It reminds me of a crazy stunt the Rolling Stones 444 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: tried to pull. I believe it was at Madison Square 445 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: Garden on the Exile and Main Street tour. They this 446 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: idea that they were going to drop like something like 447 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 1: a thousand live chickens from the rafters onto the crowd, 448 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: just to see what would happen. They just wanted to 449 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 1: watch the world burn, you know, or get packed to 450 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 1: death by chickens. Thankfully, I don't know that it actually happened, 451 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,959 Speaker 1: and if it had, God, God help the Rolling Stones, 452 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: that would have been a total melee. I think it 453 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: would have been a disaster of their own device. So 454 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: I'm glad hopefully that everybody in the band remains safe, 455 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: as safe as you can't be when you're doing Keith's 456 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: level of drugs. Oh my god, I can't believe that 457 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: guy is still with us. Uh. And so Susie Johnson, 458 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: remember she's emerged from this cake these birds fly away. Um, 459 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: she also has her own little kind of topper. She's 460 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: got a little hat on that looks like a nightingale itself. Um, 461 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: I guess you sort of meant to be like a 462 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: sexy nightingale, you know, humanoid nightingale kind of creature. Sixteen 463 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: years old, sixteen years old. As we get into it, 464 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: if you can believe the reports of this pretty sensationalized 465 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: account that was printed in the book Evelyn Nesbitt and 466 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: Stanford White, Love and Death in the Gilded Age by 467 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: Michael Mooney. Um, well, let's read a little exert here, Ben, 468 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: would would you like to join me in this? Uh? Yeah, 469 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: this is a really long one. Well, why don't we 470 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: split it up totally? Okay? Yeah. The room soon hung 471 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: heavy with acrid smells, the combination of wines, too much food, 472 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 1: of fog, of cigarette smoke, the sweat of the men 473 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: mingled with the steaming sweats of the girls that mixed 474 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: with their powders and perfumes. Then a whistle sounded, and 475 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 1: through the swinging doors of file of Roman slave girls appeared, 476 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: their bodies streaked with sweat, burying a huge trestle, six 477 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: girls on each side of it. Upon the trestle was 478 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: what appeared to be a monstrous pie, the crust of 479 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: a meringue of ermine whites, and the base surrounded by 480 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: banks of red and blue flowers. They began to circle 481 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: the pie and to sing to it, their voices now 482 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: heavy with wine and passion and incipient. Qutar. You're gonna 483 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: have to do a little explanation of that word later. 484 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: And at the queue, the top of the pie rose up, 485 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: and birds, doves, canaries, and nightingales began to fly everywhere 486 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: in the room. As the birds scattered, a shining blonde 487 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 1: child rose from the center of the pie, making graceful 488 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: weaving motions with her arms. So just a says stage here, qutar, 489 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: incipient quitar Uh. That that's a word for a build 490 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: up of mucus in your throat. It's not a sexy word. 491 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: Like they had spit in their mouths. So a lot 492 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: of people were just kind of hacking and wheezing. Is 493 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: that the implication, or that they were just like Pavlovian 494 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: dogs drooling over the sound of the bell. Perhaps there 495 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: was a bell involved. Yeah, yeah, it becomes I think 496 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: it's both of those. They are waxes. It was a whistle. 497 00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: It was a whistle. Yeah, But you see what I'm 498 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,479 Speaker 1: saying there, Like I've been reading some accounts of this 499 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: particular tale that was printed in this book, and uh, 500 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: this gentleman Mooney is not considered to be the best 501 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: of primary sources. As you can see, there's probably some 502 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: editorialising going on here, but it's fascinating time capsule kind 503 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: of peace either way. So what happens next then, and 504 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: this is where the to the story really does take 505 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: kind of a dark turn. So it's important to say 506 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: that Susie Johnson will later go on to be described 507 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: by some sources as one of the best and most 508 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: well known models in New York City, but this is 509 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: after a terrible, terrible thing happens to her. Uh. The 510 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: public finds out about this in uh, in a couple 511 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: of different places, and the public doesn't react very well 512 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: to it. Um. You can see a photo in an 513 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: illustration in New York World where the architects Stanford White 514 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: is standing to the left of and I believe you 515 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: could look up this illustration online now, but the architects 516 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: standard White. He's standing next to Susie Johnson's left, and 517 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: he's sort of like proffering a kitchen knife like he's 518 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: about to carve up. It's it's predatory a f The 519 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: thing is that this dinner the public learns this dinner 520 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: costs more than twenty three hundred times the daily wage 521 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: of the average worker in New York. So this looks 522 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: like um degenerate activities of the aristocracy, right. We also 523 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: know that Susie herself was Several accounts say that she 524 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: was later physically assaulted by the guy for whom the 525 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: party was being thrown. So on the night of his 526 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: tenth wedding anniversary, this dude attacked a sixteen year old child. 527 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: It's true, ben um and in a publication called The 528 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: New York World UH magazine or or kind of it 529 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: was more of like a bit of a pulpy kind 530 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: of rag at the time. Um. There's an m edge 531 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: an illustration of this event with Susie Johnson not shown 532 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: quite in the buff like she would have been, or 533 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: or you know, more with a like very very see 534 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,479 Speaker 1: through outfit on she's more kind of cloaked in this 535 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: billowy kind of dress. But there you can see uh 536 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: an image representation of Stanford White standing to her left 537 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: with a large kitchen knife. This kind of like almost 538 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: wolffish look at his eyes. And it turns out that 539 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: wasn't too far from the truth because Evelyn Nesbit, who 540 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: becomes a key player in in where the story is 541 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: ultimately going um remarked to Uh to White later that 542 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: I heard you ruined, Uh, Susie Johnson. Ruined being sort 543 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: of a euphemism for, at the time, taking one's virginity 544 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: or some sort of um, you know, robbing someone of 545 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: their innocence or you know, because in the eyes of society, 546 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: you would be looked at as damaged goods, you know, 547 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: for to use the term that was thrown around at 548 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: the time, um, or you would you know, no one 549 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: would want to marry you. It would be a huge 550 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: blow to one's reputation if they found out that someone 551 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: had lost their virginity. Um are are you know, been 552 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: been pregnant out of wedlock or all that stuff was 553 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: a really big deal at the time. So but it 554 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: turns out that it was so that it was Evelyn 555 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: Nesbit that would really bear the brunt of this in 556 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: a pretty explosive way. Isn't that right? Then? Yeah, that's correct. 557 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: So ruined was a euphemism for sex outside of wedlock. Uh. 558 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: The idea of them being that if someone was not 559 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: a virgin, their marriage prospects would go from one hundred 560 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: to zero or maybe one. So here's how this situation 561 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: goes down. The first recorded pop out cake party isn't 562 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: just linked to people jumping out a cake or jumping 563 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: out of pie. In this case, it's also linked to 564 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: true crime. Um. This is where we dive into some 565 00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: of the some of the terrible details here. M H. 566 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: So White is not just kind of scummy to Susie, 567 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: he is also scummy to Evelyn Nesbitt. We know that 568 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: he had According to sources, he was forty seven at 569 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: the time of his interactions. Whether she was like Susie 570 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: sixteen and he said he was going to He's like, 571 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna make your career as a model. I'm gonna 572 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: care for you. I'm gonna pay for your expenses. I'm 573 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: gonna pay for your mom's expenses. Uh, let's just work 574 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: something out. This happens. We have to remember in the 575 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: eight nineties when New York City was full of young 576 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: women who are coming to the Big Apple to make 577 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: it big and Broadway. Sometimes they would end up being 578 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: models for the ad industry. Sometimes the would be in 579 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: a chorus line. Sometimes they would make it on stage. 580 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: Sometimes they would get a job at a factory or 581 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: they have to resort to sex work. So when White 582 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: invites Nesbit to his street of heartment and he owns 583 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: a lot of apartments, again he's wealthy. He takes her 584 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: to the top floor and he's rigged a velvet swing 585 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: to hang from the ceiling. He sat her on the 586 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: swing and then he um pushed her on the swing basically, 587 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: which is creepy. But nothing else happens really that night. 588 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: A little bit afterwards, he takes this kid again, a teenager, 589 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: to his bedroom. He drugs her with champagne and he 590 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: assaults her and she wakes. When she wakes up, he's 591 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: he says, now you belong to me. That is some 592 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: like serious villainy right there. Just absolutely um talk about gosh, 593 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 1: it's good to see nowadays people like that and positions 594 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: of power, you know, getting taken to task like a 595 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 1: Weinstein or something. But this was the earliest, most egregious 596 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: version of taking advantage of folks who are trying to 597 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: you know, make their careers. And he literally offered to 598 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: take care of her and to pay her and her 599 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: mother's costs of living. You know, absolute wolf, you know, 600 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 1: just a really disgusting man and we're not This isn't 601 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: conjecture that I mean this, This is all stuff that 602 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,439 Speaker 1: came out in a trial that would ultimately ensue uh 603 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: so Nez but didn't tell anyone about this rape until 604 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: a few years later, when she told the man she 605 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: was about to marry, my man named Harry Thaw the story. Um. 606 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: Thaw also apparently wasn't the most upstanding of gentlemen. He 607 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: was rumored to have beaten many working class women with 608 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: dog whips and uh soaked them in boiling water, like 609 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: as some kind of kink. Maybe, ben, I don't just 610 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure about that. The idea of bull 611 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: whips and and the water thing make me think it 612 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: was some sort of like fetish, but it's it's not 613 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: clear from from the record here. Um, but yeah, he 614 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: uh he heard this story from his his his betrothed 615 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: um and he absolutely lost his mind right because he 616 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: didn't want uh, he did not want white doing stuff 617 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 1: to his wife that he apparently had no problem doing 618 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: to other women. Uh. And I for what, I'm glad 619 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: to live in an age where it's possible to not 620 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,399 Speaker 1: know what a dog whip is. That's disturbing that that's 621 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: just a casual thing thrown around. So, yeah, he is incensed. 622 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: He's livid. Uh, he is not dealing with his own hypocrisy. Instead, 623 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: he's taking action. On June nine six, at the opening 624 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: performance in Madison Square Garden, the same theater that Stanford 625 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 1: White himself had designed, Harry Thaw finds Stanford White and 626 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 1: he shoots him fatally. He's getting marched out of the 627 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: theater by a nearby fireman and he's still hold like 628 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: they've they've taken the gun away, and he's like yelling 629 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,439 Speaker 1: at his wife Evelyn, and he says, he ruined your life, dear, 630 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: That's why I did it. And then it goes to 631 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: the courtroom you were talking about. That's right. It was 632 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,240 Speaker 1: the trial of the century, even though it was suddenly 633 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: the very beginning of the century. Um. But it was 634 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:14,720 Speaker 1: a massive media frenzy because Nesbit actually was able to 635 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: testify on the stand and she narrated every detail of 636 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:24,280 Speaker 1: this horrific rape to the courtroom and then answered, uh 637 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: in very dignified fashion and really, you know, held her 638 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: head high. Um. So this is a very early example 639 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,720 Speaker 1: of of disgusting you know, powerful men having done terrible 640 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: things and being kind of taken to task for it. 641 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:44,720 Speaker 1: Faugh was uh committed to a psychiatric institution. UM. And 642 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: Nesbit did not have an easy life after this. She 643 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:53,240 Speaker 1: had problems with addiction, but she continued UM her life 644 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: as a performance a dancer, UM, a performer because she was, 645 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: you know, from that world of theater as well, and 646 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: she also taught UH. And then in the nineteen sixties 647 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,879 Speaker 1: she she did pass away Johnson. On the other hand, 648 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: we you know, Johnson was the girl from the cake. 649 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 1: Let's not forget. Nesbitt was just kind of the chronicler 650 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: of a lot of the stuff and became sort of 651 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: the face of this kind of you know, speaking out 652 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,799 Speaker 1: against them, against these kinds of activities. Uh. Johnson sort 653 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: of disappeared into kind of the red light district after 654 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: the situation, which she was a successful model for a time, 655 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: but then she sort of went off the grid. UM. 656 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: And we don't really have a whole lot of information 657 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: about her UM, but one report from nineteen oh seven 658 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: UM indicates that she did get married, but then her 659 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 1: husband eventually found out about her pie girl days and 660 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: that alone just being the object of men's you know, 661 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,720 Speaker 1: for another man to see your wife, you know, without 662 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 1: her clothes on. That would be enough to drive a 663 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: man at this time like into a rage and and 664 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 1: a completely jealous fugue state. Um. So yeah, he found 665 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: out about this and apparently, according to the account from 666 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: nineteenah seven, left turn, Yeah, it's the end of the tail. 667 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 1: And we like that there's I don't know about you, 668 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 1: but I like to think that maybe things did turn 669 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: out better for uh Susie, and that maybe this yellow 670 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,240 Speaker 1: journalism was just chasing a headline instead of presenting facts. 671 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: It's such a it's a it's such a purient case, 672 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,280 Speaker 1: and the kind of stuff that would have just had 673 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: these yellow journalists kind of licking their chops, you know, 674 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: and just like like, how can we exaggerate an already 675 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 1: pretty um over the top story. So that's why I 676 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: gotta take some of the stuff with a grain of 677 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 1: salt in this especially uh that that account of the party, even, 678 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like there's some truth to it, 679 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: but there's also seems to be a lot of liberties 680 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 1: being taken and that was just sort of par for 681 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: the course at the time. And yeah, yeah, good point. 682 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,399 Speaker 1: And and look, we're not saying this should ruin your 683 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 1: experience with your friends, your loved winds are paid professionals 684 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 1: jumping out of cakes. It's just fascinating to know that 685 00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: it has such a deep store worry behind it. You 686 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: can see in the In the modern day, you can 687 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: still see this practice. If you so desire, you can 688 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: pay someone to build a cake for someone else to 689 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,280 Speaker 1: jump out of. Right, Oh yeah, you totally can't. It's actually, 690 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,359 Speaker 1: you know, it's just a lot more accessible these days 691 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: because back then it was kind of relegated to the 692 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: super rich, and the cakes were meant to be edible, 693 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 1: and they would be like, you know, you'd have to 694 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: figure out a way to stuff human person in a 695 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: in a hollow cylinder inside of like a pastry. Uh. 696 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: And today you can actually order one of these things 697 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: about twenty five pounds and it comes in sort of 698 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: a modular package of of different folded cardboard pieces, sort 699 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 1: of like building like a cardboard castle for your kids 700 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: or whatever. But you know, not the same at all. Um. 701 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: There's instructions that come with it. Everything you need to 702 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: do only takes about five minutes to put together. And 703 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: this comes from a gentleman by the name of Danny, 704 00:40:54,600 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 1: who's the office manager at centerfold strips entertainment. Um, and 705 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,840 Speaker 1: and uh, I think Danny might be a might be 706 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: a might be a woman. But um, apparently this is 707 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: a thing that they specialize in and they can send 708 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: these packages all around. Yep, that's right. So if you've 709 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: ever wondered, hey, how do I get in on that 710 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 1: medici level debauchery, well, you you're you're closer than you 711 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 1: might think. This practice we have to note is uh 712 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,759 Speaker 1: is safer than the old the old practices. And and 713 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: you know, obviously, of course some people are are jerks, 714 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: and there's still certain stigmas surrounding sex workers, but it 715 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 1: is a much more accepted thing and there's not this 716 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 1: you know, absolutely damning stigma of you know, if if 717 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: you're caught doing this kind of work, or if you're 718 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: a caught kind of a cake or something, you're going 719 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 1: to be absolutely unmarriable. That's just not nearly the case anymore. 720 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: And um, there is an interview in this article on 721 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: thrillist dot com about this company that makes the cakes 722 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 1: some with a sex worker by the name of Fantasy 723 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: who talks about how she enjoys being the girl in 724 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: the cake and finds it empowering. Because she knows. This 725 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,800 Speaker 1: is a quote from her that, uh, you're the reason 726 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: a night is going to turn crazy, especially when you're 727 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: the reason that men go wild, so um, taking ownership 728 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: of that, uh that power. Yeah, and i'd like to 729 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: I'd like to sum it up with one observation here. 730 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: It is actually easier now to have a live person 731 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 1: jump out of a cake than it is to have 732 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 1: a live animal jump out of a cake or a pie, 733 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: because human beings, of course, can consent to getting in 734 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,239 Speaker 1: in the first place. Very good point, then, thanks Nel, 735 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: And with that we're going to call it a day. 736 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: We hope that you've enjoyed this strange, twisted tail. And 737 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,440 Speaker 1: I think one good takeaway from this is that you 738 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,359 Speaker 1: never know what kind of practice has a has a 739 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,280 Speaker 1: weird story behind it. I'm still personally baffled by neck ties, 740 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,720 Speaker 1: like why we where those? It did a Breen Stuff 741 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 1: video about that back in the day. It never really 742 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,719 Speaker 1: had a function, but check that out. I don't think 743 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:10,399 Speaker 1: we should do an episode on it, by the way, 744 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,439 Speaker 1: it's it's too short. It's weird. Well, I will tell you, man, 745 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,799 Speaker 1: this one had a lot more going on in it 746 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,360 Speaker 1: than I ever would have expected. Upon initial uh, initially 747 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,840 Speaker 1: seeing the headline and when Gabe sent us kind of 748 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: this this topic. So thanks huge thanks to UM research 749 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 1: associate Gabe Luger, who we're definitely going to have on 750 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,320 Speaker 1: very soon UM as we all occupy our our private 751 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 1: uh are broadcast quarantine bunkers uh in this time of 752 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,800 Speaker 1: self isolation. So hope everyone's doing well out there. Ben. 753 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: It's always a joy to kind of be able to 754 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 1: pop on and do these with you, uh and super 755 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram. It kind of makes me feel a 756 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: little less crazy. I'm very lucky that part of our 757 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 1: job is actually interacting with with you intelligent and fine, 758 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: fine gentlemen, So I really appreciate you guys being there. Likewise, 759 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 1: thanks little Big Thing of course or super producer Casey 760 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:07,000 Speaker 1: pegrov our our you know, on and off again erstwhile 761 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 1: nemesis Jonathan Strickland a k a. The Quister thinks that 762 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 1: Eve's Jeff Cote thanks to Christopher has Otis, who we 763 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 1: also we have this list of some people who will 764 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,359 Speaker 1: be making some cameos on our show. We don't want 765 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 1: to thank them all yet, but stay tuned because we 766 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,120 Speaker 1: have such wonders to show you, uh, and tune in 767 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,959 Speaker 1: next time when let's see I don't want to spoil 768 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: this too much, but we have a very weird story 769 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: about a bottle for you. Let's just leave it at that. 770 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,440 Speaker 1: I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than 771 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,439 Speaker 1: a frontal of ottomy. You know that one spoonerism Tom 772 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,839 Speaker 1: Waits is that Tom Waits. Well, he's the one who 773 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,000 Speaker 1: popularized it. At least it's too well. This uh, this, 774 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: this story, it's all about somebody preferring to have a 775 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 1: bottle in front of them as well, uh and doing 776 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,719 Speaker 1: some pretty interesting things supposedly allegedly with said bottle. Uh. 777 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,440 Speaker 1: You let your imaginations out there in podcast land have 778 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 1: to be running a whild right now, and I'm absolut 779 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:12,160 Speaker 1: okay with them. We'll see you next time. Post. For 780 00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,399 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart 781 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,319 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your 782 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: favorite shows.