WEBVTT - Fire Drill 095: Positive Vibes Only 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:07.280 This Tiger Tour. You're either in with him or you 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:10.600 are dead to him. Why would he change now? There's 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:14.600 never been any in between. Let them coexist and divvy up, 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:18.400 Divvy up the schedule, divvy up the players, and divvy 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:21.239 it all up. Isn't that ultimately what it seems like 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:24.240 we're working towards. 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:24.680 That. 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:26.560 Got thoughts in my head. 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:31.960 Can't get him join, Not the thing Wood I'm thinking about, 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.720 got my head, can't get him. 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:39.640 Out, John, Not the thing Wood I'm thinking about. 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:51.080 Hello, this is Alan shipknocking back for another Fire Drill podcast. 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.680 There is a lot happening in the golf world, in 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:56.080 society as a whole. 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:58.880 We thought this might just be a good. 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:02.600 Moment to for Matt, Janelle and I to talk about 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:03.640 the state of things. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:05.440 For me, it's kind of an exciting day. 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:07.720 It's book release day of Live and Let Die, which 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.440 some of you have already heard about or read about. 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.520 Here in New York City, doing some publicity, all good stuff. 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.839 Matt's in Oceanside and fire Pit HQ. Matti, how's it going. 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:21.920 It's going well? 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.199 I mean I feel like I'm busy until I heard 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:27.680 where you've been and what you've been up to so 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:30.200 give it a little more, a little more details on 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:32.839 sort of exactly what you've been doing today. 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:39.320 Yeah, I think I've done five podcasts, two or three 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:45.000 national radio shows. I'm chipping, I've got my mint tea here, 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:46.960 my throat. I'm losing my voice slightly. I hope it 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:49.280 doesn't sound too bad for the view listeners at home. 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:51.840 I came to New York because I was I had 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.560 some TV stuff lined up on MSNBC today. I was 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:58.440 gonna do squawk Box and Morning Joe. But with President 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.880 Biden flying to Israel, with the House trying to elect 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:06.680 a speaker, with war raging in the Middle East and elsewhere, 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.280 those things get better ratings, I think than golf books. 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.840 So I got bumped. Hopefully tomorrow. I'm locked in. 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.480 For CNN tomorrow and maybe a few other things. But 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:18.640 it's all good. I'm just happy to be here and 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:21.840 enjoying the room service of my hotel, which I haven't 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:24.880 left this room since ten am. It's now five t 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:27.919 I literally haven't left the room. It's just been ping 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:29.720 ponging from one thing to the next. But of course 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.680 I appreciate the interest and people wanting. 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:35.280 To talk about the book. And it's been fun. 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:37.720 I mean, I'm probably tired of my own voice, but 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:38.960 hopefully nobody else is yet. 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.680 Probably a few people. It's probably. 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:48.240 I know, a few tour pros of voice to the 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:55.640 idea that they're tired of you. Well, but good god, 0:02:55.760 --> 0:03:00.640 I mean, honestly, given the state of what happening in 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:06.760 the world and devastation and destruction and just terrorism and sadness, 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:11.920 and I the idea of sort of talking about anything 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:15.040 other than that, or seeing anything other than that is 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.800 is you know, here we are covering the game of golf, 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:24.080 and I think it's just a good reminder and perspective 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.520 on you know, what it is we do and how 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:31.960 we do it and try to, you know, certainly tell 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:37.360 stories that in some cases to justin Thomas's point, where 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:42.880 you know positive stories. You know, look, it's not all positive, 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.040 and it's not always positive, and I know you're at 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:55.800 the axis of this fantastically layered, I don't know, dysfunctional 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:03.640 fight for profet golf and for me, Before we get 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:07.480 too far into it, it's just worth stating that, you know, 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.480 it's also a good reminder that professional golf is only 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:16.240 a sliver of what is golf. Capital golf, you know, 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:20.800 and that to me is also something that I try 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:24.120 to remind myself. You know, I've certainly sent out a 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.760 lot of tweets that I often think maybe I probably 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.120 shouldn't have sent that out, or you know, maybe I 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.280 should have sat on that an extra day or rewarded 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:37.600 that a little differently. And you know, the more the 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:41.120 more I read of what you write, the more i'm 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:45.640 I'm hyper focused on the other side of the game, 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.239 which is, you know, instead of people who get paid 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.960 to play, people who pay to play, because I think that, 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:57.720 to me is is truly what golf is. And I 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.680 think some of the guys who are getting paid to play, 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.200 some of those guys, you know, men and women, at 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.960 one point had to pay to play, and I think 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:08.640 they're not too far removed from that. 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:10.080 And you know, I think. 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:14.720 We'd all be better served to keep things in perspective 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.240 from time to time when when this kind of stuff 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.960 gets so far out of control, which I believe is 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:21.080 where it's at right now. 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.120 Well it's a good point. I mean, folks have been 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:29.640 following us carefully, know that we're monitoring and chronicling this 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:34.599 big renovation at Golden Gate Park golf course right in 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.120 the hard of San Francisco, and I was up there 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:41.040 just last week. They you know, I was there in February, 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:43.480 the last day that the old course could be played 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:48.080 by the It's this treasured little respite in the heart 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:52.880 of the city for the local golf community. And talking 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:54.720 to the folks about how much the course means to them, 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.799 and there's a little trepidation, like, yeah, this is our course. 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.640 I mean, it's not perfect, but we, like, you know, 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.720 we're sorry to lose it. And what's been created there 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:05.560 is just phenomenal. It is gonna be one of the 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.160 best part threes in the country. And so they kind 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.719 of had a soft opening and they had two dozen 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.039 young women who were part of the first tea. Really 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:16.480 they're girls, they're all teenagers, and they they came out 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:21.320 and played and the joy that just they exuded because 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.200 it's just a fun, whimsical design and a beautiful setting. 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:25.400 And you get up to the top of the property, 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:26.720 you can see the ocean and you can see the 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:31.920 famous windmills out there and the outer sunset and there's 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:36.680 glimpses of of you know, the real urban tightly packed 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:39.760 in houses and buildings and you have a real sense 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.680 of place and just big around those those kids. As 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.600 you suggest, Matt, it it is affirming, and it is 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.560 the reminder of what it's all about. And I mean 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.680 we tell a lot of those stories here at the Collective, 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:56.920 you know, whether you know we gosh, let's go through 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.479 the roll call of all the heartwarming stories we've done 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:01.680 the last year or two. I mean, there's so many 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:03.720 like you and I are. Both of our hearts are 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.400 in municipal golf and in public golf, and and we've 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:11.880 been chronicling that, you know, pretty much non stop in parallel. 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:13.040 You know, I have been writing. 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.800 About this, this battle for the soul of professional golf, 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.000 and so hopefully that's interesting to fans. You kind of 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.240 get a taste of everything and and and readers and 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:23.440 viewers and listeners. 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.440 Uh, you know, we're not predictable. I think you're at 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:27.000 the Firepit. 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:32.400 We're always always chasing different stories and and. 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:32.800 And some are really uplifting and feel good. 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:34.880 Some like you know, I dropped one today on Firepit 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:37.840 Collective dot Com kind of gets into this this current 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.720 moment in geopolitics and in what that means for the 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:45.800 Framework Agreement. And it's it's complex, and there's it's a 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.640 little dark, and it's a little it's a little edgy, 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:52.120 and I like that mix for us and hope hopefully 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.440 the our you know, our our fans are into it 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.840 as well. But definitely, definitely we have We're like pictures 0:07:58.880 --> 0:07:59.840 that have a fastball and. 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:01.800 It up and a knuckleball and a curveball. 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.240 I think if you come to Firepit collective communit, you 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:06.160 don't know what you're gonna find. 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.640 And to me, that's that's a great thing. But there's 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:10.080 a wide disparity. 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:16.960 Well going through your your article and your book and 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:21.560 and then all the you know, sort of the preliminary feedback, 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:26.120 because the preliminary feedback on Phil, I think for a 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.280 lot of people assumed one thing and by the end 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.680 of the book they realized another, which is it was 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:38.480 beyond fair and balanced and actually skewed more towards the 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:42.640 positives that Phil has done and is capable of doing. 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.600 But there's another side to him that you know, right 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:51.040 or wrong, like or dislike, agree with or or disagree with. 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.040 It's just it's just who he is. 0:08:55.240 --> 0:09:04.160 As you know, as you're navigating this free flow of politics, egos, 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:10.760 money which comes with greed, and then this concept of 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:14.800 like a future right because at some point we have 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:21.200 we they it the professional game of golf is going 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.720 to end up somewhere right where it is now at 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.480 the end of twenty twenty three. What it will be 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:31.720 in twenty twenty four, what I think people hope it 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.880 will be by twenty twenty five is sort of what 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.360 is sort of that is the heart of the matter, right, 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.600 Like what is the endgame here? 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:43.800 Who's in charge? 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:48.800 And like where's the money coming from? How much money 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.160 is going out? Like that to me is so we 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:57.240 are so far from where it's going to end up. 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.480 It just seems it's it's mind boggl to me. 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:02.520 And farther than people think. 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:03.880 And that was one of the reasons why I wrote 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.040 this story, because even though the book's done, I'm getting 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.559 I'm still plugged into so many people and I'm always. 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.400 Talking to them. And I got a guy on the phone. 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:16.600 He's a he's a big New York finance titan. This 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.440 is just three or four days ago now, and he's 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:24.599 very involved in the conversations around the framework agreement. And 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:26.000 I said, it's this thing is gonna be done by 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.079 December thirty first, which is supposed supposed to be when 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:28.920 it's going to expire. 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.920 He said, no, it's not. It's like it's a mess. 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:34.520 There's too many, there's too many egos, There's there's too 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.600 many there's too many players, too many cooks in the kitchen. 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.040 Like he said, it's going to get extended and it's 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.480 going to keep changing. And there's it's been leaking out 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:46.840 in other places about all these private equity firms and 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:50.920 other other you know, institutional investors who are trying to 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:51.800 get in on the deal. 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.480 And it makes it makes sense. 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.679 You know what this this this this so called merger, 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.280 this big deal that was trump but it was nothing 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.800 more than peaky promises. There's nothing in that document that's 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:10.520 binding except for you know, basically extinguishing the lawsuits like that. 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:12.040 That's a done deal. That's happened. 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:13.440 That was a win for the tour. 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.079 But otherwise, you know, there was there's a line in 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:18.800 there about the Saudis have the first you know, the 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.440 PIFF has the first right of refusal for outside investment. 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.280 That's only that was that was aspirational. That's not the truth. 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:28.160 They that's why the tour is they've got upwards of 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.560 ten bidders now who want to get in on the deal, 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.480 and they can either come in alongside the Saudis or 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.680 they can push the Saudis out entirely. And there's pros 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.400 and cons either way from from the PGA Tour perspective. 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:42.720 But so this deal is miles from being done, and 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.280 it's gonna it's gonna extend in twenty twenty four, and 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.880 it's going to get a lot messier. So yeah, to 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:50.920 your point, Matt, I mean to moving target, what what 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:53.600 the game is going to look like? It's never been 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.000 less certain, you know. I think the announcement the framework 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.000 agreement kind of tricked people into thinking that that was 0:11:58.040 --> 0:11:58.600 the endgame. 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:04.160 But it's really not, wouldn't you say that Where we 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:10.720 are today, and based on this article and some of 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.040 your reporting, even after you hit send on the book, 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:20.480 you feel like they again it professional golf is further 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:25.400 away from a clean and clear future than it was 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:30.599 the day they announced this so called pinky promise or promises. 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:36.040 Yeah, it makes sense from Jay Monaghan standpoint. I mean, 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.880 the tour needs two billion dollars of investment. That's the 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:43.400 number they've settled on. They can't pay their bills, their 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:48.760 models outdated. It's time to basically shift the tour as 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.040 business model it And that's a good thing. I mean, 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:53.760 you look at the money that's flooded into in this 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:58.120 premiere soccer and every other sport. Really it was time 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.240 for the tour to have access to that because the 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.160 old model of every year you got to go back 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:05.400 to some corporation and some and try and squeeze another 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.000 million or two million dollars out of them. Like now 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:09.400 the tour is gonna have a war chest that it 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.880 can it can invest in its product, better TV, better streaming, 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:18.200 better social media, and you know, more interesting tournament offerings 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:19.880 like they will have the money to do that. This 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.240 is a good thing for golf fans. The issue is 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.120 where is the money gonna come from? It can It 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.280 can be entirely the piff, but we know that comes 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.240 with political risk. I mean, the lawmakers on Capitol Hill 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.800 are watching this very carefully because it would set a 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.679 precedent for all of professional sports. Because you know, if 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:38.959 the saudiast can take over golf, why wouln't they try 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:40.960 and buy an NFL team and a Major League Baseball 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.600 team and an NBA team and so this is something 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:45.760 that the professional sports is gonna have to grapple with. 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.040 And it just turns out that golf is they're the 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:52.400 first guys in the door. So if I think the 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.400 dream scenario for the tour is that y'a seer to 0:13:55.559 --> 0:14:00.360 maintain his position as in this new entity and you know, 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.760 have the proverbial seat at the table. If you would 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:07.040 allow some other US based investment to come in alongside 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.080 the Saudis, which would dilute their equity and dilute the 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:15.280 Saudi influence, that becomes much more palatable to the golfers, 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.640 to the golf fans, and to Congress and say, hey, 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.000 yes we welcome the Saudis into this as a minority 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:26.160 investor alongside all these other companies, these blue chip American companies, 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:30.280 and that becomes a much easier sell or. They can 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:32.800 they can totally cut bait with the piff and go 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:37.040 all in with US money, and that would obviously make 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:40.720 a lot of people happy in the golf ecosystem. But 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.160 the risk in that is then you make you live 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.040 golf a staunch competitor again. And now yes, here's pissed, 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.680 and he still got the checkbook. So they're you know, 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:52.920 they're the tours trying to thread the needle here, and 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:57.160 that's why the negotiations are bogged down, and that that's 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.320 why the future is so uncertain because they have the there's, 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:04.200 you know, kind of these three different possible outcomes and 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.720 each one has has has a definite upside and has 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.720 a definite risk and so and so now you've introduced 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.520 all these other all these other people into it. You know, 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.640 all these private ec re refirms are Emmanuel from Endeavor, 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.240 the big Hollywood agency. Like their bidders, they have their 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:25.200 own advisors and lobbyists and lawyers, and so the cast 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:30.520 just keeps expanding, the conversations keep multiplying, and and you 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.320 know it's this is just it was already a complex 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:37.120 deal and now it's it's uh complexity squared. 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:50.280 Tiger Rory Steinberg Tigers inserting himself and a seat on 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.640 the board. And again from where I sit and all 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:58.760 that I know and what he brings. Look at how 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:04.000 much money they've raised for their you know there you 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.000 know they're sort of I don't know what you call it. 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:11.960 The it's a breakaway league. It's a breakaway league, right 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:13.760 like just like it's just like Living Golf. 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:18.000 It's another you know, you know, I can't wait for 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:25.760 that to get official World Golf ranking points before Live, which, uh, 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:31.160 but you know it doesn't, doesn't It Like Tiger and 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:36.160 Rory's and Steinberg have drawn lines in the sand, right 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:40.240 they they are. And so that's like when you say, 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:43.200 like the tours trying to thread the needle, I guess 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:49.440 my my response to that is, yeah, maybe the tour 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.720 is trying to thread the needle, but isn't Tiger and 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:58.200 Rory and all that comes with that that you know, business, 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.440 that's the first thing they want to do. They actually 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.880 want to do anything butt thread the needle. They'd rather 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.240 create the money on their own, generate the money on 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.400 their own, be solely, you know, be independent. They've made 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:16.920 that very clear. And thus the scenario of having Live 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.680 then go and be a separate entity and pick players 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.439 and essentially have a little now now the Tiger Tour, 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.720 which is what you should probably just call it at 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:31.719 that point. Once once that that then becomes separate, this 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:36.600 Tiger Tour versus the Then Tiger's the guy who's like, Okay, 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.160 if you go over there, then you're gone. Like that's 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.520 the way he's always operated. You're either in with him 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:46.920 or you are dead to him. Why would he change now, 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:51.280 there's never been any in between. It's very clear that 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.320 would be. Then the Phill League versus the Tiger League. 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:58.000 It's you know, it's the Saudi money, the Piff money 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:02.080 versus any other money other then whatever that is, and 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.720 then let it be, and then let let let them 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:08.920 coexist and and divvy up, divvy up the schedule, divvy 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.280 up the players, and divvy it all up. Isn't that 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.080 ultimately what it seems like we're working towards. 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:17.840 I mean, it's everyone who's compromised in this. You know, 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:21.000 Tiger and Rory are on the board of directors of 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:24.000 the PGA Tour. They are also the co founders of 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.680 this t of this TGL, and so which the tours 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.520 invested in. They share intellectual property. 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.320 So Tiger and Rory want to protect. 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:36.960 This new league they've created, and but that really benefits 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:38.800 them and the players they've given a. 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.480 Piece of the league too, which are all tour guys. 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:45.040 No live players have been invited, not Brooks Koepka, not 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.560 Dustin Johnson, who everybody still loves like it's it's to 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.560 the TGL is become a vehicle to continue to buy 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:53.560 the loyalty of these guys who have stayed loyal to. 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.120 The PGA Tour. And it's like a reward. You get 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:57.840 to be you get to be in the boys club. 0:18:57.880 --> 0:18:58.280 And so. 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:02.879 When when this deal gets presented to the Board of 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.720 Directors of the PGA Tour and whatever fashion is, Tiger 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:07.120 and Roy are gonna have to vote on it. And 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:12.080 something I've learned is that it has to be unanimous. Two, 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:14.879 it's it's it's in the tour constitution to change the 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:20.520 tour's bylaws and to change it's it's it's fundamental governance structure, 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.400 it has to be unanimous vote by the Board of Directors. 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.040 So now you have Patrick Cantley, who we know is 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:27.120 a rascal. 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:27.959 In the middle of a lot of things. 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:31.359 And it's going to be like in Congress when you 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:34.800 you know, there's one holdout in the Senate, you know, 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:36.640 to break a tie, and all of a sudden, Oh, 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.399 he's what. We're gonna build a new military base in Alaska, 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:42.639 and we're gonna like you know what, like all the 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.240 all the pork that goes into these these all this 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.000 all these bills like potentially facing that scenario where the 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.639 tour has has made a decision, you know, the jaymon 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.199 Ands and Jimmy Dunn's, and they've kind of hammered out 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.280 a deal and now the players have to ratify it. 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.360 But they have their own selfish interests which are very 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.560 different from the you know what, Tiger and Rory, their 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.360 concerns about the TGL have nothing to do with what 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:08.600 you know, Peter mal Natty's trying to keep his card, 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:10.720 you know who's on the board as well, and a 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.280 web Sinson who's coming to the end of his playing days. 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:14.200 It appears like. 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:21.000 So it's this whole process is so interesting and so revealing, 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.719 and so yeah that how who's going to vote, how 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:27.280 they're going to vote, and of course there'll be tons 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:32.240 of conversation to get to that point. And it was 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.560 quite interesting that you know, this guy Colin Neville, he's 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.480 a he's at Rain Capital. He was appointed to be 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:42.639 an advisor to the player directors. Basically, the Tiger Rory 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:47.440 can't lay Websinson Peter Malnaughty to advise him on the deal. 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.120 Like so, so Jay and. 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:54.880 Jimmy cannot pull another end around, you know, like especially 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.879 like say Jimmy Dunn. He's a very very sharp businessman. 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:00.800 He understands seeing at a granular lefs that no mere 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.240 golfer ever could and so he can out fox these guys. 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:06.400 But you know, they brought in Colin Neville to kind 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:10.120 of joust with him and explain it to the players 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:13.520 on this this human level. And so it's you've got 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:17.560 all these warring camps that are potentially going to have 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.280 to have to come to a unanimous agreement for anything 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:20.840 to get done. 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:22.840 So the layers of. 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.120 Intrigue, I mean, it's like trying to elect a new 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:29.040 pope or you know, it's just there's it's all happening 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:32.600 again in secret, and we're gonna just have to wait 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:34.600 for for the next puff of smoke to come out 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:38.040 the chimney, and and and see where this process is. 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:45.600 Part of the negativity or the response to your excerpt 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:52.439 latest excerpt and the book in general, just me you know, 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:57.760 going through some of the some of the comments certainly 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:00.480 maybe by the players too as they try try to 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:06.119 kind of move on or brush aside or get to 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:09.040 where they need to go, is that you're bringing up 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:11.760 a lot of stuff that took place a year ago. 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:14.840 You know, you're you're bringing you're bringing back up or 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:20.080 revealing stuff that was said when tensions were high amongst 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:24.000 those players, when stuff was actually going down in terms 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.639 of guys were leaving or not leaving, had one toe in, 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:30.959 but didn't, you know, ultimately pulled back for whatever reason? 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:32.160 Is that? 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:34.160 Is that fair to say? 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:37.159 Is that the sense you're getting is that that a 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:41.800 lot of these people involved would just assume not have 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:45.280 all that stuff come out now, given the fact they're 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:48.400 trying to like move on and come to some sort 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:51.760 of you know, comprehensible or comprehensive conclusion. 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:54.080 Yeah, Oh, they would love to sweep all under the 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:57.600 rug of course that that serves their interests, you know, like, yeah, 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:00.520