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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon Eastern on Appocarplay and then Rouno with the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: The first Democratic member of Congress calls for Joe Biden

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Speaker 2: to drop out of the presidential race.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the fastest show in politics.

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Speaker 2: As a representative from Texas pulls the ripcord. I'm Joe

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Speaker 2: Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines in Washington, DC and Kaylee. This

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Speaker 2: comes today as Joe Biden reports raising tens of millions

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Speaker 2: of dollars after the debate.

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Speaker 3: That was said to be such a disaster.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and the four days since the debate thirty eight

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Speaker 4: million dollars raised. They had a record month of June

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Speaker 4: with one hundred and twenty seven million dollars according to

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Speaker 4: the campaign. And yet there are still calls within the

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Speaker 4: Democratic Party for Biden to consider not being officially the

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Speaker 4: Democratic nominee. One of those, as you mentioned, now, coming

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Speaker 4: from Congressman Lloyd Doggett, who represents the congressional district that

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Speaker 4: was once represented by Lyndon B.

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Speaker 3: Johnson. How about that?

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Speaker 4: And he says in this letter, under very different circumstances,

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Speaker 4: he made the painful decision to withdraw. President Biden should

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Speaker 4: do the same.

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Speaker 2: A native of Austin saying out loud what a lot

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Speaker 2: of Democrats are saying quietly here. Joe Biden, of course,

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Speaker 2: will be hosting veterans and their families on the south

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Speaker 2: lawn of the White House on the fourth of July,

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Speaker 2: which is a really wonderful event that takes place every

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Speaker 2: year that now is typically geared toward veterans and Gold

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Speaker 2: Star families, and it's a really wonderful thing if you've

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Speaker 2: ever been in Washington, d C. On the fourth, we

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Speaker 2: will hopefully transcend politics for a couple of hours.

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Speaker 3: Kayley, on what has been a divisive week.

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Speaker 2: Think of everything that we just added up here that

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Speaker 2: we've learned in only the past couple of days, from

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court ruling on immunity, the sentencing New York

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Speaker 2: being delayed, the great concern coming off last week's debate

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Speaker 2: among Democrats for Joe Biden, only to be followed up

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Speaker 2: with a chaser of one hundred and twenty seven million

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Speaker 2: dollars in a fundraising hall. These are noisy times on

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Speaker 2: the trail.

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Speaker 4: Indeed, it's a lot to parse through, and of course

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Speaker 4: parsing it through in a holiday week, and a holiday

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Speaker 4: specifically that is marking the United States declaring its independence

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Speaker 4: from the tyrannical king. Oh true, and yet the Supreme

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Speaker 4: Court this week, some might argue, gave king like powers

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Speaker 4: to a democratically elected president at least presumptive immunity from

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Speaker 4: anything prosecuting Official Act.

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Speaker 2: Coast is clear on a lot of things that we

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have thought about before. We talked to Tim O'Brien

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Speaker 2: from Bloomberg Opinion a little bit earlier on in the broadcast.

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Speaker 2: Trump ruling invites presidents to commit crime, which is really

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Speaker 2: how a lot of people are looking at this today.

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Speaker 2: And this is going to play itself out on the

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Speaker 2: campaign trail. It's something that we're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: Keilly with Congressman Seth Moulton, the Democrat from Massachusetts not

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Speaker 2: only supporting Joe Biden, but has actually made a run

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Speaker 2: for president himself. If you think back, he's taken a

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Speaker 2: stab at this as well.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 4: It's so much to consider as who who has run

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Speaker 4: for president in the past and didn't get the nomination

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Speaker 4: as Joe Biden did in twenty twenty. And those who

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Speaker 4: were instrumental in getting Joe Biden elected in the first

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Speaker 4: go round, like say Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina,

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Speaker 4: who arguably is what ultimately put Joe Biden over the

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Speaker 4: finish line with that victory in that state, if you

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Speaker 4: start to see those people turner, at least more publicly,

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Speaker 4: start to doubt him, I wonder if that's really the

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Speaker 4: tell when we consider whether the pressure is going to

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Speaker 4: go all the way there, so much so that Joe

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Speaker 4: Biden has no choice but to decide not to.

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Speaker 6: Be the nominee.

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Speaker 2: The congressman is with us now, Seth Moulton from the

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Speaker 2: North shore of Boston in Massachusetts US. Great to see

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Speaker 2: a congressman happy fourth in advance. I wonder what's going

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Speaker 2: through your mind here and what's going through your phone.

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Speaker 2: I bet it's been blowing up all weekend like a

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Speaker 2: lot of Democratic lawmakers. We now have one of your

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Speaker 2: colleagues from Texas, a Congressman Doggett, calling for Joe Biden.

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Speaker 3: To drop out of this race.

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Speaker 2: Is that a call based on what you're hearing that's

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Speaker 2: about to get louder for the rest of us.

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Speaker 5: Well, I don't know if it's going to get louder

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Speaker 5: or not. But look, I'm not going to sugarcoat anything.

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Speaker 5: I think the debate was a disaster, and right now

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Speaker 5: a lot of people have concerns about President Biden's age

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Speaker 5: and his ability to go toe to toe with Donald Trump.

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Speaker 5: That's the reality that we face. And of course, I

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Speaker 5: deeply respect President Biden's love for our country. He's done

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Speaker 5: amazing things for America, and he has a deeply abiding

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Speaker 5: desire to continue serving. I have a lot of respect

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Speaker 5: for that. But I've also never been one to shy

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Speaker 5: away from speaking the truth, and I think we ultimately

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Speaker 5: have to do what's best for our country and our

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Speaker 5: democracy here. I don't know what the right answer is.

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Speaker 5: I don't have all the right answers, but I'm not

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Speaker 5: gonna I'm not going to sugarcoat this.

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Speaker 4: The debate was bad, well, the debate, in your words,

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Speaker 4: was bad. That was days ago, on Thursday evening, And

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Speaker 4: potentially you could argue that the stakes of this election

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Speaker 4: got ratcheted significantly higher by the Supreme Court decision yesterday

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Speaker 4: Congressman in which they said that Donald Trump or any

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Speaker 4: other president from here on out, does have presumptive immunity

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Speaker 4: from prosecution for official acts. Given the language we have

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Speaker 4: seen from Donald Trump as a candidate about retribution, about

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Speaker 4: being a dictator on day one, does that not make

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Speaker 4: it more incumbent on President Biden to actually consider what

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump could do now if he were to win

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Speaker 4: a second term. Does that change the narrative even from

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Speaker 4: Thursday to now?

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Speaker 5: Well, the stakes for this election are incredibly high, and

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Speaker 5: you haven't even mentioned what I think is the greatest threat,

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Speaker 5: which is the national security threats to our country if

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Speaker 5: Trump is elected. Their threats to our democracy. There are

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Speaker 5: threats to our very existence, we get into World War III.

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Speaker 5: There are enormous threats to just individual rights. All the

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Speaker 5: women around the country who are wondering what rights are

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Speaker 5: Trump and the Republicans going to take away next? These

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Speaker 5: stakes are enormous. Every American should have those stakes in mind.

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Speaker 5: But I don't think there's an American who has them

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Speaker 5: more in mind than President Biden. And that's why this

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Speaker 5: conversation that Democrats are having right now a tough conversation.

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Speaker 5: The same conversation that President Biden is having with his

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Speaker 5: family and his advisors is so important. It's an important conversation.

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Speaker 5: And some people will criticize Democrats for having this conversation,

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Speaker 5: or for even maybe they'll criticize me for talking about

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Speaker 5: having this conversation. But that's fundamentally what democracies are about.

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Speaker 5: Right Republicans just cave and do whatever Donald Trump says.

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Speaker 5: You know, look at how quickly the party caved to

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Speaker 5: just making him a convicted criminal their nominee. We're not

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Speaker 5: doing that because we take democracy more seriously. We take

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Speaker 5: the stakes of this election more seriously, and that's why

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Speaker 5: we're having tough conversations right now about the best path forward.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's not lost on me, Congressman, that we were

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Speaker 2: talking back in twenty nineteen about a new generation of

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Speaker 2: leadership when you raised your hand to run for president.

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Speaker 2: You've had this conversation inside the Democratic family here for

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Speaker 2: quite a few years. Isn't that call for a new

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Speaker 2: generation of leadership getting louder?

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Speaker 5: I certainly haven't diminished my call for it since I

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Speaker 5: first ran for Congress back in twenty fourteen. I said

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Speaker 5: we need a new generation of leaders in this country.

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Speaker 5: We need a new generation to step up. And I

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Speaker 5: think that's especially true in our party. If you look

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Speaker 5: at our party, we have an enormously talented new generation

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Speaker 5: of leaders, but they're not many of many of them

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Speaker 5: not really empowered right now. And I think that's something

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Speaker 5: that we need to do. I mean, Joe, let me

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Speaker 5: just acknowledge it. It's always an honor to find one

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Speaker 5: of this small group of Americans who even remembers that

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Speaker 5: I ran for president. So I'm flattered to bring that up.

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Speaker 2: I remember seeing you at Politics and Eggs. We can

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Speaker 2: joke about it, Congressman, but is that still part.

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Speaker 3: Of your charge?

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Speaker 6: Absolutely?

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Speaker 5: Absolutely. I mean I've been in Congress for almost ten

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Speaker 5: years and I'm still one of the youngest members of Congress.

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Speaker 5: And so there are a lot of young Americans who

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Speaker 5: don't feel like they're even represented by our representative democracy.

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Speaker 5: Their views are not being represented in Congress, White House,

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Speaker 5: and whatnot. This is work that we all have to

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Speaker 5: engage in. And by the way, it's not just a

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Speaker 5: Democratic Party issue. Donald Trump's only two years younger than

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Speaker 5: Joe Biden, if I have it right, So I mean

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Speaker 5: this is, you know, this is an issue that I

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Speaker 5: think politics in general in America has to wrestle with

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Speaker 5: We need a new generation of leaders. We still do.

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Speaker 4: Well as we consider those leaders in all of the

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Speaker 4: different facets of government, specifically the House of Representatives. Congressman,

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Speaker 4: you are right now in the minority. The prevailing thinking,

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Speaker 4: at least it was until Thursday, was that the Democrats

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Speaker 4: stood a fairly good chance of flipping the House blue

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Speaker 4: in November. Do you now have concerned that Joe Biden

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Speaker 4: being at the top of the ticket hurts those odds.

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Speaker 5: Well, I've had concerns about the House for a while

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Speaker 5: because I think the problem is that while insiders in politics,

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Speaker 5: like the three of us on this conversation who follow

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Speaker 5: this every day, we know how totally dysfunctional the Republican

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Speaker 5: House has been. We know that it's almost inconceivable that

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Speaker 5: these bozos could get re elected, the likes of Speaker Johnson,

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Speaker 5: with his acolytes Marjorie Taylor Green and Lauren Bobert, I

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Speaker 5: mean all these, I mean, frankly nut cases. But I'm

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Speaker 5: not sure that everybody is so tuned in to realize

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Speaker 5: that the reason the House is dysfunctional is because of

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Speaker 5: this extremist Republican leadership. And if you look at the

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Speaker 5: simple baseline, how many safe seats do Republicans have versus

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Speaker 5: how many safe seats do Democrats have In the House,

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Speaker 5: Republicans are actually ahead. So the case I've been making

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Speaker 5: all year is we need to pay attention to the House.

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Speaker 5: It's so it's getting lost because people are so focused

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Speaker 5: on Biden versus Trump, and then they're focused on the Senate,

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Speaker 5: which we've known for years would be a tough road

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Speaker 5: for Democrats in twenty twenty four. And the worst case

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Speaker 5: scenario is that we wake up the day after the

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Speaker 5: election and we say, oh my god, we lost the

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Speaker 5: White House, we lost the Senate, And if we had

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Speaker 5: just paid a little attention to the House, we'd have

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Speaker 5: a backstop on democracy. But we didn't. So I've been

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Speaker 5: leading my group Serve America that's helping to elect great leaders,

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Speaker 5: great service veterans in key races across the country. I've

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Speaker 5: been encouraging people to invest in Serve America because I

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Speaker 5: think this is the best return on investment in democratic

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Speaker 5: politics right now. I think it's incredibly important to focus

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Speaker 5: on the House. We all know the stakes are high

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Speaker 5: with the presidency. We all know the Senate, our Senate

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Speaker 5: majority is in peril. Let's not forget about the House, though.

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Speaker 5: It could be the backstop on democracy that we need.

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Speaker 2: M Well, there's a lot here, a lot of cross

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Speaker 2: currents and a lot of overlap and all of these

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Speaker 2: races that we're talking about here, Congressman Seth Moulton, I

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Speaker 2: feel like we're dancing around this a little bit here

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Speaker 2: because everybody's trying to be polite. Should Joe Biden drop

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Speaker 2: out of the presidential race or not?

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Speaker 5: I don't have the answer to that right now. I've

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Speaker 5: had a lot of conversations about this candidly, and you know,

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Speaker 5: there's a there's certainly a view that the chaos that

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Speaker 5: would follow would would be worse than just having a

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Speaker 5: nominee that we know and that can trust. And then

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Speaker 5: of course there's the other view that the debate was

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Speaker 5: a disaster and and we just need to move on.

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure exactly what the right answer is is

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Speaker 5: yet here, but I can tell you we are having

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Speaker 5: those serious conversations as any serious party should.

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Speaker 4: How does the Vice President Kamala Harris factor into those conversations?

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Speaker 4: Is the thinking that she should be the nominee instead

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Speaker 4: or that someone else entirely, who is unattached to this

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Speaker 4: administration should be the one to take the helm if

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Speaker 4: indeed Joe Biden makes the decision to exit.

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Speaker 5: It's a great question because that's a debate that's happening

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Speaker 5: behind the scenes right now as well. If the President

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Speaker 5: were to say he's not going to run, would automatically

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Speaker 5: go to the vice president or would there be an

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Speaker 5: open contest? This is tricky. I mean, I'm not even

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Speaker 5: sure exactly what all the party rules are in terms

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Speaker 5: of shifting delegates around and whatnot. That's certainly not my

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Speaker 5: area of expertise, but that's something that would have to

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Speaker 5: be sore out because this really is an unprecedented situation.

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Speaker 5: I can't think of a time when something like this

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Speaker 5: happened before. You know, I'll tell you one of the considerations,

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Speaker 5: just to lay all the cards on the table, is

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Speaker 5: that there's been great concern that the Democratic Convention in

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Speaker 5: Chicago this year will be chaotic to begin with. There

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Speaker 5: are a lot of protests planned, There are a lot

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Speaker 5: of people who are upset with the president's policy around

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Speaker 5: Israel and Gaza in particular, who probably want to disrupt

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Speaker 5: the convention. And you know, some people are saying, do

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Speaker 5: we want to disrupt the convention even more? I mean,

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Speaker 5: these are real serious considerations and real debates that are

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Speaker 5: happening right now amongst members of Congress and other leaders

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Speaker 5: in the party.

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Speaker 2: As this debate takes place in the wake of the

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court ruling yesterday, Congressman, there's a lot of speculation

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Speaker 2: going on, and people are kind of letting their imaginations

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Speaker 2: run wild with what a president is in fact allowed

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Speaker 2: to do. As we wake up today in this new reality,

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Speaker 2: what do you think how far are you allowing your

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Speaker 2: imagination to run in a world now where president can

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Speaker 2: effectively commit a crime as long as it's considered part

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Speaker 2: of his official business.

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Speaker 5: We founded this country, our founding fathers wrote the Constitution

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Speaker 5: to shed the shackles of a monarchy, to get away

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Speaker 5: from a king. That's why my ancestors came here in

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Speaker 5: the sixteen thirties, to get away from the King of England.

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Speaker 5: And I think what the Supreme Court has done is

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Speaker 5: essentially restoring a monarchy, restoring the power of a king

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Speaker 5: to the president. And so I think, just at a

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Speaker 5: very visceral level, this Supreme Court ruling is about as

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Speaker 5: un American as you can get the founding fathers must

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Speaker 5: be rolling over in their graves. And I don't think

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Speaker 5: we fully understand what the implications of this ruling could

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Speaker 5: be for the future of our democracy, because you're right,

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Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know where it stops. If he

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Speaker 5: just chooses to assassinate a political rival, is he from that? Oh,

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Speaker 5: I'm sorry, it was an official act. If he just

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Speaker 5: chooses to start a war ignoring the will of Congress,

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Speaker 5: because it's written in the Constitution that Congress is supposed

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Speaker 5: to have a check on that does he does he

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Speaker 5: suddenly become immune because it's for you to official act.

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Speaker 5: He could send thousands and thousands of Americans to their

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Speaker 5: deaths and we just turn a blind eye because it's

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Speaker 5: an official act. I mean, it seems legally absurd and

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Speaker 5: deeply deeply un Americans. So I'm I mean, I can't

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Speaker 5: describe how concerned I am.

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Speaker 4: And it falls on the week of the fourth of July,

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Speaker 4: of all things. Congressman, thank you so much for being

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Speaker 4: with us on balance of power that is democratic Congressman

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Speaker 4: Seth Moulton of Massachusetts, we appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power Podcast kench

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Speaker 1: just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then

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Speaker 1: royin Oto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also

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Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,

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Speaker 1: Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: I want to bring it to the North lawn of

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Speaker 2: the White House today where there is some important business

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Speaker 2: being had. We're talking about obviously a lot of politics,

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Speaker 2: but let's deal with policy today at the White House.

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Speaker 2: It's directed at severe weather, Kayley. President Biden giving remarks

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Speaker 2: on extreme weather as we follow this Hurricane Beryl toward

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Speaker 2: Jamaica and what could be a very destructive storm eventually

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Speaker 2: touching us here in the US. And I'm glad to

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Speaker 2: say that we're joined by Almost Hochstein, Senior Advisor to

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Speaker 2: the President on Energy and Investments, with us from a

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Speaker 2: sunny and warm north lawn. Almost, welcome back to Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: TV and Radio. It's great to see you.

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Speaker 3: Can we just.

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Speaker 2: Start with the matter at hand here, and the potential

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Speaker 2: threat from this storm is the Strategic Petroleum Reserve for instance,

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Speaker 2: safe and sound is our infrastructure protected along the Gulf coast.

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Speaker 7: Well, First, Joe and Kaylee, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 7: It's good to be back here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Look, this is exactly why.

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Speaker 7: We have planning all year long to make sure that

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Speaker 7: we are ready for moments like this. We have a

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Speaker 7: hurricane that is tragically affecting people on lives in the Caribbean,

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Speaker 7: Mexico and could be coming towards Gulf of Mexico in

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Speaker 7: the United States, and making sure that we have a

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Speaker 7: response to it, both to support people and communities as

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Speaker 7: well as making sure that we have the ability if

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Speaker 7: we have to do something to address shortages and energy.

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Speaker 7: We're already prepared to do that, and so the President

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Speaker 7: has ordered us a long time ago to make sure

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Speaker 7: we are prepared, and I believe that we are. The

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Speaker 7: spr has enough in it to address concerns of weather

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Speaker 7: concerns or other geopolitical issues, and there are other eras

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Speaker 7: and tools that we have at our disposal that we're

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Speaker 7: always willing to do. Look, just today, we're releasing a

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Speaker 7: million barrels of gasoline from the Northeast Reserve into the market,

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Speaker 7: which should help bring additional capacity into the market ahead

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Speaker 7: of the storm and most importantly ahead of July fourth,

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Speaker 7: when so many Americans get in their cars and RVs

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Speaker 7: and are to travel across the country at record numbers.

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Speaker 4: Well, as we consider the SPR in the availability of

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Speaker 4: the contents of it for emergencies, of course, it is

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Speaker 4: not as full as it once was after it was

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Speaker 4: tapped earlier in this administration, when we saw gas prices

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Speaker 4: so high almost obviously, gas prices are not at those

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Speaker 4: levels now. The average, according to Triple A is about

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Speaker 4: three point fifty a gallon across the US. How high

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Speaker 4: would gas prices need to get for the President to

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Speaker 4: consider tapping the SPR again exactly for that purpose to

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Speaker 4: get those prices down?

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Speaker 7: Well, I think that, as you mentioned, when the advent

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Speaker 7: of the Russian War in Ukraine, and then as that

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Speaker 7: war continued, we had soaring oil prices in the United

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Speaker 7: States and around the world, and gas prices soared to

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Speaker 7: five dollars a gallon, and that's when the president ordered.

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Speaker 7: President Biden ordered that historic release from the SPR of

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Speaker 7: one hundred and eighty million barrels over a period of

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Speaker 7: six months. Since then, we've seen two things happen. One,

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Speaker 7: the private sector that was just really in coming out

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Speaker 7: of a very bad era for COVID during COVID of

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Speaker 7: production has gone to record production in the United States.

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Speaker 7: We are producing more oil today in the United States

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Speaker 7: than at any time any country has in history, and

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Speaker 7: we are near those records for natural gas production as well,

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Speaker 7: And so that's one thing that happened. We have more

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Speaker 7: supply on the market today. The second is that we've

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Speaker 7: been repurchasing back oil into the Strategic Reserve. Roughly about

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Speaker 7: forty million barrels have been purchased back into the reserve

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Speaker 7: and replenished. And most as importantly, we canceled the congressional

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Speaker 7: mandated sales out of the SPR that we're supposed to

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Speaker 7: come into effect over the last several months.

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Speaker 3: So we're in good shape.

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Speaker 7: We have enough capacity in the SBR to address what

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Speaker 7: we need to do. And no, it's not as full

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Speaker 7: as it was two years ago, but it is a

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Speaker 7: significant reserve that we still are able to tap. And

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Speaker 7: I would say it's not about prices, it's about the

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Speaker 7: overall environment of the market and do we need to

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Speaker 7: put liquidity of oil into the market at any given moment,

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Speaker 7: whether it's geopolitical pressures or weather or other issues that

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Speaker 7: are affecting the US economy.

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Speaker 2: Almost I know your time is tight, but we have

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Speaker 2: to ask you as well about the potential for shock

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Speaker 2: based on geopolitics in the Middle East. I wonder you're

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Speaker 2: concerned about ready supplies. You mentioned this release of a

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Speaker 2: million barrels of gasoline from the Northeast gasoline supply reserve.

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Speaker 2: But as our energy infrastructures the global market able to absorb,

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Speaker 2: a new front in the war with.

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Speaker 3: Israel is real word.

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Speaker 2: To open a front to the north with Hesbalah, what

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Speaker 2: would happen to the price of oil?

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Speaker 7: Well, first, I think we're trying to do a couple

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Speaker 7: of things. One is to make sure try as hard

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Speaker 7: as we can, the President spending normose amount of time

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Speaker 7: every day. I'm trying to get us to a ceasefire

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Speaker 7: that brings hostages home and practically ends the war in Gaza. Second,

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Speaker 7: to keep the escalation that we have seen over the

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Speaker 7: last several weeks on the border between on the Blue Line,

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Speaker 7: the area between Israel and Lebanon. We saw this has

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Speaker 7: been going on for eight months. We saw the escalation

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Speaker 7: really ramp up over the month of May and early June.

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Speaker 7: We've seen that come down a bit, which is a

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Speaker 7: good thing, and we have told both sides we're working

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Speaker 7: with both sides I've spoken to them. I was in

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Speaker 7: Lebanon and Israel last week, and we are going to

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Speaker 7: try to continue to work as hard as we can

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Speaker 7: to prevent a further escalation. That war is any kind

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Speaker 7: of escalation would have It's not just about markets. It

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Speaker 7: would have significantification for thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of lives,

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Speaker 7: and we believe that it is possible to get to

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Speaker 7: a resolution of that and to end that conflict so

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Speaker 7: that Israelis can go back to their homes securely, that

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Speaker 7: Lebanese can go back to their homes and farms, respectively

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Speaker 7: on the Lib and East side, and that we can

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Speaker 7: end this goal.

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Speaker 3: However, we are preparing.

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Speaker 7: For every scenario, and the President has been adamant that

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Speaker 7: while we try to prevent war, we are prepared to

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Speaker 7: handle the consequences, even the ones that will affect the economy.

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Speaker 7: The reason the Northeast Reserve that you mentioned is important.

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Speaker 7: In the summer, we do import gasoline from the global

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Speaker 7: market in the Northeast, so this does have a pretty

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Speaker 7: significant impact on what we're trying to do and make

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Speaker 7: sure that people's effects for their budgets as they travel

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Speaker 7: in July fourth, that prices are as low as they

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Speaker 7: can be.

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Speaker 4: All right, almost, thank you so much for joining us

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Speaker 4: today from the north lawn of the White House. That's

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Speaker 4: almost Hakstein, Senior Advisor to the President for Energy and Investment,

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Speaker 4: running through a few issues that President Biden, for all

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Speaker 4: of the talk in recent days about his ability to

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Speaker 4: serve as president of the United States through the remainder

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Speaker 4: of this term, yet, let alone another four years, is

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Speaker 4: still focused on policy, whether it be foreign policy in

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Speaker 4: the Middle East or policy here at home as we

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Speaker 4: consider gas prices and the tool they may have taken

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Speaker 4: on his popularity.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apocarplay and then

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Speaker 1: Proud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: As we carry on here on Balance of Power Live

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Speaker 2: from Washington at the Bloomberg Bureau in downtown d C.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew here on Bloomberg Radio, on the satellite

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00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 2: and on YouTube. With so many questions about what last

441
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 2: week's debate actually means for this campaign and whether Joe

442
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: Biden will end up in fact being the nominee, i'd

443
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 2: say in Chicago and August. But of course Bloomberg is

444
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 2: now reporting that the DNC wants to get this done

445
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 2: the middle of July. And maybe with news today that

446
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's sentencing in July is surely to be delayed,

447
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: maybe this starts to make a little bit of sense.

448
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 3: But there is a new.

449
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 2: Poll out on the debate, well sort of at least

450
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 2: the way people are feeling in the wake of the debate,

451
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 2: and it's from the progressive group Our Revolution, surveyed by email.

452
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 2: This is not a traditional poll, to be clear. Surveyedd

453
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 2: supporters by email in the seventy two hours after the

454
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 2: debate on Thursday, seventeen thousand respondents. As we read at Politico.

455
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 2: The top line takeaway sixty seven percent of respondents think

456
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 2: Joe Biden should suspend his campaign. Now, as soon as

457
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 2: you start thinking about that, look at the money. Remarkable

458
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 2: turn here again with fundraising being announced in the last

459
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: twenty four hours. They were hoping for a big one,

460
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 2: and they got one. The Biden campaign raised one hundred

461
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: and twenty seven million dollars in June. Now you see, Yeah,

462
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 2: but the debate was just last Thursday. Fine, that includes

463
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: thirty eight million dollars raised in the four days starting Thursday,

464
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: the day.

465
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 3: Of the debate.

466
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: The overall number, by the way, an almost fifty percent

467
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 2: increase from the previous month. So what the heck is

468
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 2: going on?

469
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 3: Here?

470
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 2: We assemble our panel for their take. Rick Davis, of course,

471
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 2: is with us Bloomberg Politics contributor and Republican strategist partner

472
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 2: at Stone Court Capital, Joined today by Lincoln Mitchell, political

473
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: analyst lecture at the School of International and Public Affairs

474
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 2: at Columbia University. Great to have both of you, gentlemen

475
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 2: with us. Lincoln, how do you rationalize one hundred and

476
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 2: twenty seven million dollars for a candidate no one seems

477
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 2: to want?

478
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 6: Well, the first thing I would say is that one

479
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 6: thing you learn when you study polling is that when

480
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 6: organizations tell you how big they're sample size is, that's

481
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 6: a tell that means the methodology is terrible. So I

482
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 6: wouldn't put too much stock in that our Revolution poll

483
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 6: either way in email tools.

484
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 2: Okay, but there was also a CBS News poll over

485
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 2: the weekend that I think had seventy two percent suggesting

486
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 2: that Joe Biden should step down from it and that.

487
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 6: Data also includes Republicans and independents. Right, our revolution is

488
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 6: only the left wing of the Democratic Party. But just

489
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 6: to get to your question, what strikes me is that,

490
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 6: first of all, you know, we all have cell phones,

491
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 6: and we all know that when something, regardless of what

492
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 6: party you are, when something good happens in Washington, your

493
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,719
Speaker 6: party asked you for money, and when something bad happens,

494
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 6: your party asks you for money.

495
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 3: That's right.

496
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 6: My sense here is that Democratic donors, whether low or

497
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 6: high dollar, saw that debate, which, let's be frank here,

498
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 6: was a complete disaster for Joe Biden and said he

499
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 6: needs all the help he can get. Right. No one

500
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 6: who was watching and paying attention and going to give

501
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 6: money to the Democratic candidate watched that debate and said, O,

502
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 6: g Now I'll give money to Donald Trump because at

503
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 6: least he can finish his sentences. So in some sense,

504
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 6: Biden's poor debate showing just revealed his desperation, and people

505
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 6: who are legitimately want to do anything to stop Donald

506
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 6: Trump said, well, you know, you've got to keep throwing

507
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 6: money at this, So that doesn't altogether surprise me.

508
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 2: Rick, what's your take on the cash and if you're

509
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: sitting across the street at Trump HQ. How do you

510
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: interpret this surge thirty eight million dollars after what was

511
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 2: said to be a disaster of a debate.

512
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, look, I think there's a combination of what Lincoln

513
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 8: just said, but also, I mean these things it's hard

514
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 8: to attract attention of voters this early in the cycle.

515
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 8: I keep reminding everybody summer. Number One, voters are out

516
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 8: doing things that normal people do. They don't sit around

517
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 8: like we do and watch debates. And that was indicated

518
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 8: by the lackluster numbers of the tenants of the debate.

519
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 8: And then two, it's early in the cycle. I mean

520
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 8: most people really focus in much later. So when you

521
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 8: have an event that's either bad or good, it does

522
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 8: tend to attract eyeball people. Soa wake up and say, hey,

523
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 8: what's going on in that presidential campaign? And whether it's

524
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 8: you know, a conviction in court or a disaster's debate performance,

525
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 8: it is part of what starts to happen when it

526
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 8: comes time to raise money. And these campaigns are very

527
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 8: adept at playing off of that, Oh my god, we've

528
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 8: just had this disastrous to make performance. Please send us money.

529
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 8: It's not their message, but it's it pretty.

530
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,239
Speaker 3: Is subliminal, fascinating.

531
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: When you look at money on hand, Rick, the June

532
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: fundraising total includes money raised directly by the campaign as

533
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: well as the DNC again, and we also have two

534
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 2: joint fundraising committees. The four groups collectively have two hundred

535
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 2: and forty dollars cash on hand. That's up from two

536
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: hundred and twelve at the end of May. To be clear,

537
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 2: we don't have Donald Trumps numbers yet, but at last check,

538
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 2: he was at one hundred and sixteen million dollars. Rick,

539
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: if you're making campaign plans here, you just got the

540
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: sentencing pushed off. It looks like for Donald Trump, you're

541
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court ruling yesterday means these guys are Donald

542
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 2: Trump's not going to be in court for the summer.

543
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: Here, How does Joe Biden use that money in a

544
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 3: way that.

545
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 8: Counts well, He's already pretty well invested in media, much

546
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 8: different than Donald Trump, who hasn't been spending much on

547
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 8: broadcast at all, and so I think he's really bound

548
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 8: to have to keep that up because even though he's

549
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 8: spending a lot, he's not seeing much improvement in these

550
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 8: state numbers where these polls are where these ads are

551
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 8: being played. So I think he's either got to find

552
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 8: a new poll find a new ad maker, or get

553
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 8: a lot tougher because his real objective right now is

554
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 8: to put some hurt on Donald Trump, take the attention

555
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 8: away from himself. He's got to use earned media to

556
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 8: try and get back to status quo ante before that debate.

557
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 8: But the paid media has got to go to take

558
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 8: down Donald Trump. And frankly, if he's got a quarter

559
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 8: of a billion dollars in the bank, he better start

560
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 8: using it in some new states too, because we see

561
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 8: polling in places like New Hampshire and Virginia and Minnesota

562
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 8: that looks like it's flipping away from Donald from Joe Biden,

563
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 8: and he probably ought to be adding to his media

564
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 8: buy to include those states.

565
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: What's your thought on that link And if you're sitting

566
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 2: on a pile of cash like this, two hundred and

567
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: forty million dollars in your Joe Biden, are you reformulating

568
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: the message now to get these ads out to reflect

569
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 2: what happened yesterday in the Supreme Court that democracy is

570
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: on the line, that Donald Trump will change the country

571
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: for the worse if he gets elected, or do you

572
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 2: stay disciplined and keep beating the drum on the economy,

573
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 2: on inflation, on abortion.

574
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 6: Well, obviously the Biden campaign has I would hope access

575
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 6: to a really deep and good polling here. My sense

576
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 6: for some time now is that the crisis of democracy,

577
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 6: which I believe is absolutely profound. I mean, I think

578
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 6: the court ruling yesterday really shows just that we are

579
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 6: really on the precipice of something very terrible here. But

580
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 6: in my view, in my sense, that's a donor class

581
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 6: concern within the Democratic Party coalition. It is something that

582
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 6: people who have money and give money and our Democrats

583
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 6: care about, But it's not something that those people that

584
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 6: you need to mobilize to get to the polls as

585
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 6: well as people you need to bring back to the party,

586
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 6: as well as some of the loosive swing voters. They

587
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 6: don't care about that. And I think Rick gets to

588
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 6: something very important here. The main issues, the main issue

589
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 6: that is going this issue, this vote elections, to some extent,

590
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 6: a battle between Joe Biden screaming democracies at stake here

591
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 6: and Donald Trump screaming everything costs more, and that election

592
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 6: everything costs more is likely to win. So for Biden,

593
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 6: I think his only path to victory here is exactly

594
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 6: what Rick says. If most of the punitory, the thing

595
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 6: you're supposed to say on shows like this is that

596
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 6: Biden needs to talk about the issues and what he's

597
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 6: done with the infrastructure, and then played alt the fact.

598
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 6: What if he doesn't metaphorically speaking Donald Trump's head off,

599
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 6: he loses. That's the mistake Hillary Clinton made in twenty sixteen.

600
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 6: She and the people around her thought that everyone in

601
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 6: America knew as much about Trump and hated him as

602
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 6: much as she and the people around her did, and

603
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 6: they didn't. Biden has to remind people of how bad

604
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 6: the Trump presidency was. Of what Donald Trump has said,

605
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 6: you know the things that people like us who pay

606
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 6: attention see that he truths on truth social I think

607
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 6: that's the verb form I don't know exactly that he

608
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 6: says in his rallies, even in the last twenty four hours,

609
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 6: and show that to the American people. If this becomes

610
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 6: a referendum on Joe Biden's presidency, I think Biden probably loses,

611
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 6: especially after what we've seen in recently last week the debate,

612
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 6: where he really doesn't seem up to this. If this

613
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 6: is a referendum on Donald Trump, his mental stability, his policies,

614
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 6: his avarice. The Democrats have a chance. So I think

615
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 6: you're down a little bit. You got to take Trump

616
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 6: down and if they don't do that, they may lose

617
00:32:59,240 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 6: this thing.

618
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: Wow, this is a fascinating conversation. This is why the

619
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: campaigns love to listen and watch. So Rick, you agree,

620
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 2: I'm guessing Lincoln says this. This ruling yesterday, the bag

621
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: of worms, as Tim O'Brien called it, is a donor

622
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: class concern.

623
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 3: Is that the takeaway?

624
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, you never listen to donors when you're running a campaign.

625
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 8: It's a disaster if you do. And so no offense

626
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 8: to the donors. But what we need is your money,

627
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 8: not your advice. And so yeah, I mean I think

628
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 8: it's pretty plain what's happening here. Number one, the best

629
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 8: strategy for the Democrats is to dump Biden and get

630
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 8: a new candidate too. If you got to eat Biden,

631
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 8: then you better start tearing down Trump. Because the only

632
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 8: way Biden wins this is if his fave on Paves

633
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 8: are hired donald Trump's, and that's not the case right now.

634
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 8: It may surprise and shock people that Donald Trump is

635
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 8: more popular in America than Joe Biden is, and there's

636
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 8: only one way to fix that. Going to get more popular,

637
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 8: and he's not going to get it younger. So they

638
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 8: got to go after Trump. And the spectacular failure of

639
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 8: this campaign is the fact that they hadn't done it yet,

640
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 8: that they're still messing around with this idea that they've

641
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 8: got something to sell with the American people. The vote'es

642
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 8: in on that.

643
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 2: Do you still make good on a second debate with

644
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: all that said, Lincoln, or do you keep him home

645
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: in September.

646
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 6: I don't know that that decision will even come to

647
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 6: Biden because I think Trump doesn't do the second debate.

648
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 6: Why take the risk? Right, let's say early September. Mid

649
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 6: September rolls around, Trump is leading by five or six points.

650
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 6: And if you watch that debate, what gotten a lot

651
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 6: of coverage here, of course, is just how out of

652
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 6: it Joe Biden looked. But one thing that struck me,

653
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 6: perhaps even more than that, was how much more kojent

654
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 6: Donald Trump was compared to what we've seen from him

655
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 6: on the stump. And I think that took a lot

656
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 6: out of him. And if you're a Trump advisor, two leagues,

657
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 6: stent Trump listens to anybody, you don't want to roll

658
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 6: the dice again. That So, if I'm Biden, if as

659
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 6: Rick points out, Biden is still the nominee, I want

660
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 6: that debate because at that point I'm losing by six

661
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 6: points and I have nothing to lose. If I'm Trump,

662
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 6: I don't now if we have a different nominee, then

663
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 6: of course you want that debate because any of the

664
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 6: Democratic names that we're hearing would all destroy Donald Trump

665
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 6: in a debate. So I would be surprised, regardless of

666
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 6: who the Democratic nominee is, whether we have a second debate,

667
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 6: because I don't think Trump wants one. Now, Trump marquismo

668
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 6: and bluster may get in the way here and he

669
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 6: may insist on one, and that could be a big

670
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 6: brank break for the Democrats, regardless of who the nominee is.

671
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 3: Fascinating, Rick, we only have a minute here.

672
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 2: You've long said you never let your candidate on a

673
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 2: stage with Donald Trump. Do you think Trump shows up

674
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 2: on stage for a second debate himself.

675
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 8: Well, you know his instinct is Lincoln says, is you know,

676
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 8: nobody can beat me, and I'm really good at this,

677
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 8: So you know, I'm sure Chris Losivita and the rest

678
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 8: of the team would lay themselves across the railroad tracks

679
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 8: to stop that train from going. But the bottom line

680
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 8: is it may not even matter then. If the trajectory

681
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 8: of this campaign's going, you know, they'll be clocking in

682
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 8: at over three hundred and fifty electoral votes by then.

683
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 8: And so even a disastrous debate performance in September by

684
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 8: Donald Trump, as long as he's opposing you know, the

685
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 8: Biden candidacy probably is meaningless. So let's have a party.

686
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 8: I mean, what's one more presidential debate? It can't get

687
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 8: any worse for the.

688
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 2: Last one, Right, Let's have a party, says Rick Davis.

689
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:29,919
Speaker 3: I love it.

690
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Can

691
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play

692
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: and enroyd Otto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can

693
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New

694
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

695
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 4: Here in Washington, myself and Joe Matthew have had our

696
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 4: eyes on what was coming up in New York next

697
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 4: week to be on July eleventh, the sentencing a former

698
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 4: President Donald Trump, who of course has been convicted of

699
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 4: thirty four fellon accounts of falsifying business records. Then the

700
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 4: Supreme Court threw a bit of a wrench in that

701
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 4: plan yesterday, ruling in part that Donald Trump has at

702
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 4: least presumptive immunity from official acts taken while in office.

703
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 4: And now Trump and his defense team contend that that

704
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 4: means the New York case should get thrown out.

705
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so cancel your plans for the eleventh. We will

706
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 2: not be talking about a sentencing, will be packing our

707
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: bags for the Republican National Convention. Yes, pretty remarkable as

708
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 2: we bring in Elizabeth Widra this day after the Supreme

709
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 2: Court ruled, and we're already feeling the ripple effects. As

710
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: Kelly just said, legally and certainly politically, Elizabeth is Constitutional

711
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,479
Speaker 2: Accountability Center president and Supreme Court litigator, has been there

712
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: before and joins us once again. Now, Elizabeth, it's great

713
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 2: to have you back here. A lot of folks are

714
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 2: using their imaginations on what this means for the presidency

715
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 2: more immediately, and I'd love for you to weigh in

716
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 2: on that. As we talked this out here on Bloomberg

717
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 2: TV and Radio. More immediately. We're seeing the impact of

718
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: this ruling even on a state level case like this

719
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 2: in New York. Do you think Donald Trump will be

720
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: sentenced in New York before the election?

721
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 9: You know, this case honestly has in part been extraordinary

722
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 9: for many reasons, but the delay that it has caused

723
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 9: in the criminal cases against Donald Trump continues to have

724
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 9: its effect. So with respect to his January sixth trial

725
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 9: that this appeal came out of, that case obviously has

726
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 9: been delayed for months and months and is unlikely to

727
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 9: go forward before the presidential election. And then as we're

728
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 9: seeing in the sentencing in the New York state case,

729
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,959
Speaker 9: we're going to see a delay there as well, even

730
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 9: after a jury of former President Trump's peers found him

731
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 9: guilty on thirty four felony counts. And that's because the

732
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 9: Supreme Court's immunity ruling yesterday from this conservative supermajority didn't

733
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 9: just grant really breathtaking, me sweeping absolute immunity for core

734
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 9: official actions and then presumed immunity for official actions sort

735
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 9: of within the outer perimeter of what could count as

736
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 9: an official action. They also said that if you are

737
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 9: being prosecuted for private conduct for which you don't have

738
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 9: immunity if there's evidence that's relevant to that private conduct.

739
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 9: So this New York State fraud case is private conduct.

740
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 9: If there's evidence that comes out of an official context,

741
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 9: so like communicating with your aids, et cetera, that can't

742
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 9: even be presented in the aid of those charges that

743
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 9: can be brought even under this immunity ruling. So that

744
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 9: prevents certain evidence from being presented. And that's what Trump's

745
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 9: motion in the New York courts will focus on. That

746
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 9: without the evidence that relates to his official conduct, his

747
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 9: conversations with aids, his communications with the public while he

748
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 9: was in office, without that evidence, you can't support the

749
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 9: criminal charges based on his private conduct. So the conservative

750
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 9: Supreme Court majorities ruling on the immunity case is so

751
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 9: sweeping we're already seeing its effects. And as the dissentse noted,

752
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 9: the potential dangers for our democracy are real and are

753
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 9: frankly terrifying.

754
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 4: Well, and that's something we were speaking with Elizabeth Democratic

755
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 4: Congressman Seth Moulton about earlier this hour. He described how

756
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 4: his ancestors came to the colonies, originally to escape a

757
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 4: tyrannical king. The British monarchy in that in some ways

758
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 4: he saw the Supreme Court as taking a step back

759
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 4: toward that direction. On this week in which we're celebrating

760
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 4: the declaration of the independence from Great Britain. To what

761
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 4: extent is that actually true and not hyperbole? Elizabeth? Has

762
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 4: this effectively made the president more like a king? Or

763
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 4: is the Court reinforcing what was already constitutionally understood to

764
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 4: be true?

765
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 9: So unfortunately, I don't think it's hyperbole.

766
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 8: You know.

767
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 9: We one of the kind of principles of the founding

768
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 9: of our nation was that no one would be a

769
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 9: king in this country. Even the most powerful executive elected officer,

770
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 9: the President of the United States, would in many ways

771
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 9: be as an equal with the people who elected them.

772
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 9: And the idea that no one is above the law

773
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 9: is so central to that idea of equal justice and

774
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 9: equal citizenship and democracy that this ruling really works a

775
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 9: shift in the very understanding of the office of the

776
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 9: presidency under the American Constitution. So before there were certainly

777
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 9: some understandings of ways in which the president would not

778
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 9: be the same as you know, you and me. Before

779
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 9: the courts, there's generally an understanding that you couldn't criminally

780
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 9: indict a sitting president, although you could they left the office.

781
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 9: You know, there were all these different ways in which

782
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 9: the president's ability to act was protected, but never was

783
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 9: there ever contemplated this absolute immunity in these core functions

784
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 9: and the outer perimeter of official conduct. In fact, it

785
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 9: was very clear at the time of the drafting of

786
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 9: the Constitution that the framers of our Constitution were well

787
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 9: aware of how to write in immunities when they wanted it.

788
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 9: They knew that some colonial era governors had some criminal immunity,

789
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 9: and they specifically chose not to include that because they

790
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 9: wanted the president to be like their fellow citizens, subject

791
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 9: to American criminal laws if they violate the law, because

792
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 9: they are a person just like the rest of us.

793
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 9: We don't have hereditary lines, we don't have you know,

794
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 9: divine right of kings, and this ruling really upends that understanding,

795
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 9: and it is very dangerous because, as you know, the

796
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 9: saying goes, absolute power corrupts, and it's perhaps even more

797
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 9: important for the president to be subject to criminal liability

798
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 9: when they act with their utmost power, because that's when

799
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 9: they can really abuse that power if they so choose

800
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 9: and So what the court has done is really given

801
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 9: a dangerous blank check to future presidents. Well, and I

802
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 9: guess the current president as well to presidents going forward

803
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 9: from yesterday to really act with impunity. And you know

804
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 9: that some of the not hyperbolic, unfortunately examples from the

805
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 9: descents were okay. So it's a core executive function to

806
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 9: be able to remove your the president. The president to

807
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 9: be able to remove his attorney general. What if he

808
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 9: decides to remove him by poisoning him to death, then

809
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 9: he can't be criminally prosecuted for that. That is just

810
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 9: I'm crazy, not the technical legal term, but legally insupportable.

811
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like you're letting your imagination go there too.

812
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 2: Elizabeth tim O'Brien ready for Bloomberg opinion that this ruling

813
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: invites presidents to commit crimes. And with that in mind,

814
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: what does the court think about this idea of sentencing

815
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 2: a president even though it's a state court. If Donald

816
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 2: Trump is sentenced and wins election, is he still going

817
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: to be meeting with a probation officer while is at

818
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 2: the White House or wearing an ankle bracelet.

819
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 9: Well, you know, the New York case is interesting because

820
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,760
Speaker 9: it is a state proceeding, and in our federalist system,

821
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 9: we have different systems of justice for the federal criminal

822
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 9: docket and the state dockets. So, you know, the January

823
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 9: sixth case, it's very important that it tried to occur

824
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 9: before the election because again it's a case brought by

825
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 9: the DOJ, and so if Trump were elected, he could

826
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 9: simply order his DOJ to drop the case against him.

827
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 9: The New York case is different because technically the president

828
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 9: does not have authority over the New York state justice system.

829
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 9: But you know, I think at the very least, the

830
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 9: Conservative Supreme Court's immunity decision is going to delay and

831
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 9: delay and delay that case to the point that he

832
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 9: might not be sentenced before the presidential election. And then

833
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 9: of course you have all these additional layers of how

834
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 9: do you if Trump were to win the election, how

835
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 9: do you deal with with potential sense thing? We just

836
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 9: have never been there before. It's unprecedented, like so many

837
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 9: things we're talking about today.

838
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 4: Well, we focused so much of the conversation over the

839
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 4: course of the last twenty four hours and change Elizabeth

840
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 4: on what Donald Trump could do if he does indeed

841
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 4: win in November. But we have a president in the meantime,

842
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 4: and President Biden did weigh in on this decision from

843
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court yesterday. Just take a listen to what

844
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 4: he said, and then I have a question for you.

845
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 10: I know, I will respect the limits of the presidential

846
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 10: powers I have for three and a half years, but

847
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 10: any president, including Donald Trump, will now be free to

848
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 10: ignore the law. I concur with Justine Sodemeyer's descent today.

849
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 10: She hears what she said. She said, in every use

850
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 10: of a visual power, the president is now a king

851
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 10: above the law. With fear for our democracy. I dissent,

852
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 10: end of quote, sociald the American people dissent.

853
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 4: I dissent, Elizabeth. He began that sentence with I know,

854
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 4: I will respect the limits of the presidential powers I

855
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 4: have for three and a half years. But given what

856
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 4: the court ruled yesterday, could Joe Biden theoretically act against

857
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 4: Donald Trump as a political opponent without fear of prosecution

858
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 4: if he was doing so in an official capacity? I mean,

859
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 4: what power has this given him while he is still

860
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 4: president at least for the next six months.

861
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 9: Yes, you know, I think if we're talking purely legally,

862
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 9: based on the legal standard that was articulated by the

863
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 9: majority of the Supreme Court in their decision. Yes, I

864
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 9: do think he could take all sorts of actions against

865
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 9: Donald Trump as a political rival. You know, one of

866
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,720
Speaker 9: the hypotheticals in the court was, could a president using

867
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 9: his military or.

868
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 6: Official function or.

869
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 9: Team to assassinate a political rival? And I think they

870
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 9: would be immune criminal prosecution. While does it seems for

871
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 9: articulate those words, I think they would be immune from

872
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 9: priminal prosecution based on the Conservative Supreme Court's ruling yesterday. Now,

873
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 9: of course, President Biden says, I will respect the limits

874
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,240
Speaker 9: that we have understood to be on the president's power.

875
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 9: But the whole point of drafting the Constitution of the

876
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 9: way it was was an understanding that we were never

877
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 9: going to have a government of angels. We were going

878
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 9: to have a government of human beings who are flawed,

879
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,760
Speaker 9: and we didn't want to depend on people being good,

880
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 9: honest people and not being willing to act in their

881
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 9: own selfish best and and perhaps for evil purposes. And

882
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 9: so the fact that the Supreme Court is hoping that

883
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 9: I guess the American people will not elect someone who

884
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 9: would act in that way to the presidency going forward,

885
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 9: or that a person would themselves decide to hold back

886
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 9: and not use the terrible authority that they've now been

887
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 9: given by this Supreme Court ruling. That's just not why

888
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 9: the Constitution was supposed to work. So, you know, this

889
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 9: ruling is really very astorical, you know from the court

890
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 9: that cims to be bound constitutions text and history. The

891
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 9: founders of the Constitution would be agast at this ruling,

892
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 9: and it really has no basis other than in the

893
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 9: Conservative supermajority's views about what a president needs in order

894
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 9: to take, as they said, bold action.

895
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 5: But I would be far more.

896
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 9: Concerned about the structure of American democracy and the need

897
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 9: to make sure that no.

898
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 5: One is above the law.

899
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 9: That Elizabeth in the ruling that we saw from the

900
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 9: majority yesterday on the.

901
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 2: Court, Well, I'm glad we could spend some time talking

902
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 2: about it. Elizabeth Wider has been great with us as

903
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 2: long as this case has been rolling in its way.

904
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 2: To have you back, President, Constitutional Accountability Center, Elizabeth Wider,

905
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 2: thank you for the time here on Bloomberg TV and radio.

906
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make

907
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 2: sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,

908
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

909
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC, at noontime Eastern

910
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com