WEBVTT - Questions: Part 1 [bonus] 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:12.320 In Atlanta. Another body was coming today at police Task 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:16.439 Dors headquarters. There are twenty seven faces on the wall, murdered, 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.080 one missing. We do not know the person or persons 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 that are responsible. Therefore, we do not have the mode 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:24.759 from Tenderfoot TV and How Stuff Works in Atlanta. Like 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:28.000 eleven other recent victims in Atlanta, Rogers apparently was as 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.040 fixy victor Atlanta. It was unlikely to catch the killer 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:44.280 unless he keeps on killing. This is Atlanta Monster. Hey, guys, 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:46.480 thanks for tuning into our first Q and A episode. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.240 I'm Payne Lindsay. I'm here with the Tenderfoot team and 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:51.440 the House Stuff Works team. Hey, it's Jason here with 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.280 How Stuff Works Merit from Tenderfoot, and this is Donald 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:56.400 from Tenderfoot. And today we're gonna be going through some 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.320 of the voicemail questions. To start this off, we received 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:03.000 an overwhelming amount of listener voicemails ranging from all types 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:05.039 of questions, and today we've picked some of the best 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:07.720 ones and we'll be going through them individually and giving 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:13.119 the best answers we can. Hi, my name is Jimal Anthony. 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:17.120 Why this story? What made you guys? Decided this was 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:21.800 the story to tell it's a very unique story, but 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:26.720 it's very um complex and it seems to be ever changing, 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.920 you know, so many moving parts to it. So what 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:34.280 made you guys decide to pick the Atlanta child murders. 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.160 That's a good question. Um really, Donald all right, my 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.920 business partner here at tender Foot TV, he brought this 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:43.000 story to me. At first, I'd never heard of the 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.480 Atlantia Old murders. Donald, what inspired you to bring this 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:48.920 up in the first place? Initially, I know we wanted 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.919 to do something different, Um first podcast up and vantashed. 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:53.800 You know, we're planning on doing a season two of it, 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:55.640 but I know we wanted to do something other than 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.120 a missing person's case. And um, just thinking back on 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.080 my childhood, the Atlanta childmars was something I remember growing up. Um, 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:03.720 it affected me, and I think some of our other 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:07.240 listeners that are either forty and up and from the 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.120 black community especially remember hearing about this. And I was 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:13.440 away in California, UM, but it still affected me. You know, 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:16.120 I heard about it from my parents, from my uncle's 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:18.480 and it was something that just I felt like I 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:20.639 needed to ask you if if you had ever heard 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:22.519 of it before? And when I did, and you hadn't 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:24.320 you hadn't heard of it. I was like, how many 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:26.959 other people out there, you know, just don't know about 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.280 this tragic story. So I figured, look, if we can 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:34.120 bring this story, uh some more attention, maybe some justice 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:36.040 or some at least at the very least some awareness 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.160 and the closure for those families, then I think I'd 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.079 be worth this. You and shot yeah. And I did 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.360 some initial research after you told me about it to 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.120 see if this would be a good podcast, and I 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:48.800 realized very quickly how important this story was um to 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.000 the nation, especially just the city of Atlanta. Um all 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.760 the racial bifurcations in the story, the way it's sort 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.359 of shaped this city, and kind of it's had this 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:59.880 sort of dark cloud over Atlanta for a long time, 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.640 and it's something that was sort of swept under the rug. 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:04.560 And the more you dig into it, the more you 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.079 learn that just isn't readily available out there, right, And 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.440 I think also, I mean I learned a lot, you know, 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:11.560 I thought I knew about this case, and I think 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.240 a lot of people think that they know about this 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:15.919 case until you actually do the research listen to the podcast, 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.480 so you know the things that I thought, you know, 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.440 some of those, um were rumors, and and you know 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.240 those were dispelled by doing the research. So I got 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:25.600 a lot from it. But I think the interesting thing 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:29.239 also is that, you know, we sat down with Jason 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:33.200 from How Stuff Works, Uh, and you also, Jason had 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:35.040 had this idea to do this podcast, so it kind 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:36.560 of seemed like a perfect match and that's why we 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:38.360 ended up doing it together. So yeah, But when I 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.160 met you, Jason, I had just talked to Donald about 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:43.800 the Atlanta child murders case, and we met for the 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.240 first time in your office, and you brought up the 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.720 Atlanta child murders and I said, I'm not kidding my 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.360 business partner, Donald just mentioned this to me, and I 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:53.160 was gonna write there in between you guys, what was 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.280 your take on doing this as a podcast? You know, 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.440 for me, I was what nine or ten years old 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:59.720 at the time, and that image of the case, even 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.120 living far away in Wisconsin, was burned in my brain. 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.560 And I think what Donald said is right where, um, 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:09.440 something's actually surprised us here. So um the reactions from 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:13.360 folks who lived during that time and remembered it but 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:17.200 actually didn't quite remember everything. These things tend to be 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.479 urban legends the longer they get drawn out, and the 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.840 stories tend to change over time, and um, you know, 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.680 even if you listen to the podcast, you'll be like, 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.640 it sounds like even folks at the FBI don't quite 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.720 remember everything thirty or forty years later, and so there's 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.880 a certain mythology that that builds over time. Uh. The 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:38.400 second thing that, um, I think most shocked me, and 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:40.359 I think pain you probably feel this way too, is 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.159 how many people had no idea that this was actually 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.520 a story that happened, that this many African American children 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.200 were missing in murdered, and that this happened in a 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:53.320 major metropolitan city like Atlanta. The other why is that 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:57.960 it's been forty years, and part of this is what's 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.839 the same and what's different about this country in this 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:06.480 city actually, And we're talking about race, we're talking about economics, 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:10.800 we're talking about politics, we're talking about police and justice, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.480 and it's pretty stunning to see certainly some things have changed, 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:20.120 but a lot fuels the same after forty years. Yeah. 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.839 I think I've said this before, UM, speaking about the podcast, 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.560 is that you know, there's a difference between progress and change, 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.240 and a lot has changed, but we haven't progressed as 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:30.039 much as a nation as we'd like to think. And 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.040 I think that's one lesson I want to take away 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:34.960 you can have from listening to this podcast. To add 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:37.480 to that the why now it's been forty years, Like 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.320 you're saying, a lot of these players in this case 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.520 are getting really old now, whether some of them are 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:45.760 not even around. So I mean, in ten years, I 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:47.400 don't think you could do this podcast, if you know. 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:52.160 And just kind of brings up another side note, which 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:55.919 is what was our goal on the podcast. So it 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.159 was an investigation and we wanted to get to the 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:03.320 root of the stories. But at think we discussed early on, um, 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.720 we wanted people to make up their own minds and 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:10.240 and here everything, even the wild crazy stuff, and make 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:12.640 up their own minds and then looking themselves and be like, 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.000 why did I think that way? What's causing me to 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.800 think that way? Is it based on things I've held 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.480 onto for years? Or is it because I really feel 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:23.680 compelled one way or another that the evidence is swaying me. Yeah, 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.320 I promise as a listener, whatever you were feeling, I 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.800 was feeling the exact same thing at some point. This 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.000 is so confusing, This is puzzling, Why why is this 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:34.320 like this? Do I believe this? Do I not believe this? 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.320 Those are things that people have thought for almost forty 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.440 years now. It's nothing new in this case. Everyone associated 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.120 with this has kind of a different perspective um based 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:47.080 on age, based on race, and like Pain being thirty, 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:48.919 you know, you weren't even born when this happened. You know, 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.000 Meredith's on our team even younger. Jason and I were 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.360 young and you heard about this growing up. But just 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:58.080 you too, you know, Meredith and Pain, you guys are 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.960 the generation of pot cast listeners that you know, really 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.520 don't know about the story. So just hearing about it 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:06.240 and learning about it in the way that you did, 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:07.640 you can probably relate a little bit more to the 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:11.440 listener um that's hearing about it firsthand from the podcast. Right. 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:13.880 So I didn't grow up with the story obviously like 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.320 either of you did. But I think it's interesting in 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:23.040 my perspective to still see um parallels between this story 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:29.640 now and what's happening today in and social issues we're 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:33.720 facing now, and how like you're suggesting, Donald, there might 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.000 not have been as much progress as we like to 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:39.080 think that we have, and these issues that are there, 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:42.520 some of them are still here in two thousand eighteen, 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.560 and I think that it's interesting to see that from 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:50.880 my perspective and coming across the story brand new right now. Hey, paying, 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:55.080 this is Wendy from North Atlanta. So my question is, 0:07:55.800 --> 0:08:00.320 so the bridge that supposedly Wayne Williams through the body 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.760 off of I was wondering why it took so long 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:08.000 for them to recover that body. Don't bodies float when 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:12.480 they're first thrown in the water and then they sink later. Therefore, 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.280 they would be able to recover that body that night, 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.640 as opposed to waiting three days and then not being 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.320 able to connect it to Wayne Williams throwing the body in. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:24.920 That's a good question. I am, by no means an 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.880 expert on uh the human body in that sense, but 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.120 from what I know, a dead body does not flow 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.960 up until the gases inside from the decomposition make it 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:40.240 rise to the surface. So let's assume that it was 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.240 Nathan Okator's body that was tossed off the bridge, and 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.160 he had died just a few hours earlier. Within that timeframe, 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:49.560 he likely would sink and then rise to the top later, 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.320 the FBI told us and Also, it's in the FBI 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:57.360 reports all the documents that they did go search for 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:03.199 a body that night with boats and with helicopters and 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:05.680 all kind of stuff, but they found nothing. So Yeah, 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:10.160 and that's not I've been fishing on the Chattahoochee many 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:15.160 times and it's it's very cold, very cold water, and 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.040 it's a little bit tricky to navigate. It's not the 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.760 widest river in the world. There's lots of overhanging trees, 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.200 and if you were to do that at night, it's 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.079 not the easiest thing to kind of find a clear 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.720 pathway and just a body be there. Um. And so 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:32.000 I just knowing that environment, I know it is a 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.599 little bit tricky, and I'm sort of not surprised it 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:36.920 took him maybe an extra day or two to to 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.680 find the body. Yeah. I think another thing is the current. 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.560 It's been suggested to us that the current was really strong. 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:44.760 It's also been suggested to us that the current was 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.240 relatively calm. So depending on who we talked to, we 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.040 get mixed information. We got mixed information about that, and 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:55.640 I think, um, regardless, there was a lot of time 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.880 between when they heard a splash Wayne was pulled over. 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:02.640 They talked to Wayne the assembled people to go out 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.640 and start investigating the splash. That was in the early 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:09.920 early morning hours of that night and or of that day. 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:12.880 And I think it probably took a long time before 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.079 anything was set in motion, so that could account for 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:19.199 some you know, missing time, or where Nathaniel Kator's body, 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:21.640 if it was indeed dumped that night, where it would 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:25.920 have been in relation to actually first hearing the splash. 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.920 But the focus was on Wayne almost immediately you have 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:33.640 this the splash, this uh suspicious character on the bridge. 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:36.800 It's late at night, so all the police officers the 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.959 FBI are there focused on Way Williams. They're also trying 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:45.160 to look for a body that one recruit claimed he 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:49.400 heard hit the water. So it's late, it's dark, and 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.400 I think that um even Macomis made a comment to 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:57.080 us offhand, the FBI agent that they didn't even launch 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:00.800 a full investigation that night in the water because the 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.960 current was strong and it was not safe to do. Yeah, 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:05.800 and if you think about it, they didn't even really 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.120 know for sure what they're looking for. They didn't know 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:10.760 Nathaniel Kator was missing at this point. It wasn't that 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.320 they were looking for someone in particular, They just here's 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:15.880 a kind of fishy situation, let's look into it. So 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.280 I think that definitely is a good point to bring up. 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.320 That mcomis they didn't know what they're looking for. They 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.520 didn't even launch an official investigation yet. I think FBI 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.920 also mentioned that the recruit under the bridge could have 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.720 been as much as fifty yards away from uh where, 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.000 directly where the body may have hit the water. So 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:38.040 if he's you know, under the bridge, fifty yards away 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.960 and that he hears a splash, he still used to 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.320 you know, walk over there and then shine his light 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.800 on the water. And by that time, I mean, even 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.600 the body has hit the water and initially come up 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.360 before it sinks again and the current takes it away. 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.160 I mean you're looking at at least a couple of 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:57.720 minutes of someone walking and then looking around. The body 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.920 can definitely have disappeared by that time. So you know, 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:02.960 there's a lot of variables. I think, um, there's no 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:04.920 definitive answer to really, they should have found it as 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.920 soon as it hit the water or three days later. Hi, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.600 my name is Julian. I just finished listening to your podcast. 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.760 So if Wayne used to drive around the blue car 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:15.839 with like the police scanner, pretend to be a police 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.520 officer or be the reporter and get all the information 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.640 on the cops. How did he not know that the 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.680 cops were at the stakeout and then like, you know, 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.440 not and then the boy being caught regardless, It just 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.199 there's just seems to be I'm just kind of confused 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.760 about that. Well, according to Wayne Williams himself, he did 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.600 know about this. He told me it was an episode 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:38.800 ten in one of my last phone calls with him, 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.680 that he knew about the bridge steakouts. Was he telling 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.199 the truth? I don't know, But according to Wayne in 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.920 two thousand eighteen, he did know about the bridge steakouts, 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.720 and he did have a car that was like a 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.200 police car with a police scanner, so he had the 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.400 know how and the ability to hear a police scanner 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.800 and possibly find out about bridge steakouts. I don't know 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:03.520 if that helps or hurts his story, but that's what 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:05.600 he told me. That's the only time I've ever heard 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:07.720 him say of that. Do you think he was like 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.160 that that was just another turn in the story at 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.640 the end, because I don't think he even had the 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:14.920 police scanner in the white station wagon. I think it 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:17.160 was in some of the other vehicles. I just I 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:20.840 have a tough time believing that he knew, and if 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.680 he knew, why would he do it? Anyway? I think 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.880 Wayne tends to say things and shape things as he's 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.120 talking to people, UM, and he shapes the stories in 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.560 a way that fits whoever he's talking to and whatever 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.880 he's trying to get across. UM. I think in that moment, 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:41.959 he felt compelled to tell me that, you know, all 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:46.319 this is ridiculous because he knew about these steakouts when 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:48.360 you know. I don't know why he didn't say that 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.800 in his trial. I think it's a good point that 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.880 he didn't necessarily have the police scanner with him in 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.200 that car. I'm not sure if that was something. He 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.840 moved around to different cars, and he moved drowned plenty 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:03.840 of cars, as we know, But he did know enough 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.840 about what was going on. This is me talking assuming 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.760 that Wayne did this, But he did know enough about 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:13.480 what was going on to change the place of dumping 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:15.920 to the rivers. So I don't think it was out 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.520 of the question to think that he knew they would 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.720 be looking at rivers by this point. It wasn't like 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.320 this was the first body that was that had shown 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.640 up in a river. Yeah. Bottom line is kids were 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:30.520 turning up dead in the Chattahoochee River. That was in 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:33.680 the Atlanternal Constitution, that was in articles, it was in 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.600 the news. That was a known fact in Atlanta at 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.640 that time. And then mainly adults at the end showing 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:44.560 up further and further outside the Atlanta city boundaries in rivers. Again, 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:49.080 as Um Popcorn says, because he heard the fibers were important, 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.120 so he was stripping the clothes off of them. Um, 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:56.120 I'm actually really surprised that the law enforcement was able 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:58.440 to keep their steak outs a secret from the media. 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:00.040 I don't know if there was an agreement with the 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.600 media to keep it quiet, but for all the stuff 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.640 that happened to be able to essentially cover every one 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.120 of these bridges out in the country for thirty days 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:12.520 and no one knows about it, I'm still surprised that 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:14.600 that didn't get out. I thought it was suggested to 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.200 us once that maybe people didn't know exactly what was 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:21.200 going on and where, but that they knew that police 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:25.760 were steaking out new locations. Even Captain Dave Captain Dave 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:30.200 said off hand in our interview that he recalls on 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.640 the police skinner they were using code words. I don't 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:35.880 remember what the word was, but it was something. It 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:37.640 was some street name that he had never heard of 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:39.840 in Atlanta. He said, where is this street? Where is 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.600 this turns out it was a code word for the 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.560 bridge steak out and he found this out during that 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.480 time period. So way Williams having the same access that 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:54.120 this guy has, And you know, it's plausible that Wayne 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.360 would know about the bridge steak out. The question is 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.800 then if he did, like Wayne saying, if he did 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:00.960 know about the bridge steake out, then why does he 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.960 go into the bridge at three in the morning. Yeah, 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.920 it's it's surprising, but it is conceivable. And I think 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.680 it's important that to remember that when he was pulled over, 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.760 at least to us, he suggested that when um, he 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:16.760 was questioned, he said, is this about the kids? Even 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.600 if he's claiming his innocence, he knew that he was 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:24.640 being pulled over in association with you know, the kids 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.440 being missing and turned up murdered. So also, I think 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.920 he could have known about the bridge steakouts, and um, 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.000 that's not going to deter if it, you know, if 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:35.320 he's the one who is guilty of it's not going 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:37.840 to deter that person from dumping them in the water. 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.160 That was he believed at the time that it was, 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:43.760 you know, getting rid of evidence. So you know, the 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:45.480 killer has to know. It's just common sense if I'm 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:47.600 dumping bodies and rivers, there's if there is a steak 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.120 out there probably looking at rivers and you know where 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.840 these bodies are being found. Um. And also they say 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:54.680 he was aware of the steakouts, doesn't mean he knew 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:57.720 exactly which bridges, exactly which times when the bridge steakhouts 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.200 were ending, and that that was the actual last night. 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:02.400 So also a lot a lot of variables when it 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.040 comes to that take out. Yeah, I was gonna say, 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.119 just while we're on the topic of the bridge again 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.159 over over and over again, we were out at the 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.240 bridge and they have a kind of an extra fence 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.000 on top, now one of those kind of curved rails 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.840 that prevent people from jumping off into the into the river. 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:21.560 And so we had to use a lift in order 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.119 to get Randy over the top and drop him. But 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.680 this kind of question of how could how could anyone 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:30.720 Wayne's size pick up a body and throw them in 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.040 the river. Well, if you look at the original um 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.680 bridge structure and some of the photographs, that structure is 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.040 actually not that tall. It's less tall than um than 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:45.120 a height of a normal car, and it is solid concrete. 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.840 So the ability again I'm getting a little bit graphic here, 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:51.200 but to pick up a body, even force it against 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.280 that concrete structure and push it over. To me, that 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.719 doesn't seem very difficult, even if um those bodies were 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.920 a lot heavier than the victims who bodies were pushed over. Yeah, 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.520 I mean it's absolutely doable. I mean if if you 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.879 you try to live Randy. Yeah, if you take the Randy, 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.720 it his height and weight compared to Nathaniel Katy, which 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.560 is you know, it's been some back and forth about 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:14.880 exact height and weight, but it's it's all very similar 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.040 to what we were dealing with. And um, you know, 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.600 my height and weight and not much different than way 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:22.840 Williams at that time. And I was able to take 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.160 the dummy um from about the middle of the bridge, 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:30.440 drag you know, put my arms underneath the dummies arms 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.479 and drag it up the curb over to the bridge 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:37.000 and lifted at least to my chest height and to 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:38.760 be able to put it over what would have been 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.000 the barrier At that time. It wasn't a scientific test 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:45.639 being done by us. It was you know, what do 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.200 we believe? Like? What did I just hear? Like? The 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:50.520 best way to test this is to do it yourself 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:53.480 and see if there's anything there. We put ears where 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.440 the recruit heard this splash, so you, as a listener, 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.840 got to hear what it could sound like. It wasn't 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:05.720 altered it. We literally bought these uh microphone ears to emulate, uh, 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.879 the way people hear things. And so that's the closest 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:14.720 we could possibly get. Scenario again. Why did they rent 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:19.000 so many cars during that period? I mean the mom 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:23.120 shicked the father. I didn't know you know what I'm 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.040 talking about. I wonder why they rented so many stations 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:30.080 wide into whatever? Why by they did rent a lot 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.359 of cars, And we asked me about that. According to 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:38.239 Wayne and to Larry Peterson too, who's the fiber analyst um, 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:41.720 the Williams family was having trouble with a newly purchased 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.479 LTG during this time period and it was in and 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.160 out of the shop. So all of the rental cars 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.480 they got were associated with that. I don't I don't 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.280 know if it was directly suggested that it was from 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:54.600 the car shop that they were going to that was 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.120 giving them these rentals, but it was because they had 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.600 a new car that was having trouble. Um, it sounds 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:03.720 convenient that they had all these rental cars, not planned necessarily, 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.479 you know, looking at the list by check Donlinger, there 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.080 was even he talks about the confusion around the cars 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:11.880 and and what goes where and when, and I had 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.800 trouble following it. Frankly, this is something I found that 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:18.000 was interesting to me. Um, not just because of the cars, 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:24.359 but they had pulled over another individual and their car. 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:29.040 It was actually a tag associated with Wayne Williams Um 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:33.520 associated to Metro News Productions on eighteen seventeen Penelope Road, 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:37.119 which is Wayne and his family's address. So they actually 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:42.639 went to visit Wayne in January. It's the first time 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:47.080 he was talked to as part of the investigation, and 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:50.120 well in advance of him being questioned and arrested later 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.080 that summer. So whether they knew it or not, they 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.199 had are actually already talked to Wayne because of an 0:20:56.200 --> 0:21:00.399