1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Floomberg's sound on 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: number one. I'm not walking any back. The fact of 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: the matter is I was expressing the more outrageous. I 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: ran twice, I won twice, and I did much better 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: the second time. Floomberg Sound on Politics, Policy and perspective 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: from DC's top names. They will vote out Democrats because 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: of high inflation. Look at how the price of oil 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: has gone up. I was just noting sixty six dollars 9 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: of barrel on December one. Be not afraid, Bloomberg Sound 10 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. President Biden says 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: he's not walking back the comments, but he is dropping 12 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: a budget today. Welcome to the fastest hour in politics. 13 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: As we are reintroduced to the idea of taxing unrealized gains. 14 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: We'll put on our green visors walk through the new 15 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: budget proposal with Congresswoman Jan Chikowsky, Democrat from Illinois, who 16 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: serves on the House Budget Committee, and as President Biden 17 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: returns from his trip to Europe, we're going to talk 18 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: about the winds and losses on this journey and the 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: policy for the war in Ukraine. With Charles Cuption of 20 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: the Council on Foreign Relations our panel this Monday signature. 21 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Chanzano and Rick Davis are with 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: us for the hour, and we start with dueling headlines 23 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: from the White House today, big news on the budget. 24 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: We were expecting this, we are Bloomberg, and we finally 25 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: filled in some blanks on the budget five point eight 26 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: trillion dollars as I read. But you know, when we 27 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: heard that the president was going to be taking questions, 28 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: will that change the tenor of the whole event, because 29 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: of course everyone had to ask about the nine words 30 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: if you were paying attention over the weekend. The president, right, 31 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin cannot remain in power. Well that's not all nine, 32 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: but that gets you to the point here he says 33 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: he was not announcing a policy change. Listen to President 34 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: Biden today from the State dining room. Here he is 35 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: number one. I'm not walking any back. The fact of 36 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: the matter is, I was expressing the more outrage I 37 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: felt towards the way Putin is dealing in the actions 38 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: of this man, just just brutality. Half the children in Ukraine. 39 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: I just come from being with those families, and uh, 40 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: and so but I want to make it clear I 41 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: wasn't then, nor am I now articulating the policy change. 42 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: I was expressingly the more outrage that I feel, and 43 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: I make no apologies for personal outrage, he said. And 44 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: by the way, why is that so mystifying? After he 45 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: called Vladimir Putting a war criminal, a butcher, and a pariah. 46 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: Those don't add up to somebody who should be running 47 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: their own country. But nonetheless, the President showed up today 48 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: not to talk about Vladimir Putin, although well I guess 49 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: he kind of did in a way. He was talking 50 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: about the budget. So here we have it, five point 51 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: eight trillion dollars, additional money for police and veterans, quite 52 00:02:59,919 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: a bit higher spending on national security, domestic spending as well. 53 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: The overall top line on this thing up five point 54 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: seven from the omnibus spending bill that we are now 55 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: operating under. And the President, as we hear now, came 56 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: back around on the idea of paying for it all, Ah, 57 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: build back better with a tax um. And this is 58 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: in part, not the whole thing, but a in part, 59 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: a twenty percent minimum tax on income and yes, unrealized gains. 60 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: Here's the president and my budget contains a billionaire minimum tax. 61 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: Because of that minimum tax, it applies only to the 62 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: top one percent Americans will pay this tax. The billionaire 63 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: minimum tax is fair and it raises three hundred sixty 64 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: billion dollars, and that is on the way to lowering 65 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: deficit spending by a trillion dollars. A big part of 66 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: the effort today to try to invoke financial responsibility for 67 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: financial restraint. Enter Senator Mitch McConnell, the minority leader in 68 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: the Upper Chamber, calls it a far left feast here 69 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: he is on the floor. This whole far less fast 70 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: leaves out the reckless, shocking and spending spree that Democrats 71 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: failed to pass last year and are now trying to revive. 72 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: I wonder if we spoke with anyone on the Budget 73 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: Committee as we are about to. Congresswoman Janshchikowski, Democrat from Illinois, 74 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: is with us, member of the House Budget and Energy 75 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: Committee Chair as well of the Consumer Protection and Commerce 76 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: sub Committee. It's really great to have you back, Representative. 77 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for being here on actual budget day. This is 78 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: something that the Wanks live for. But let me ask 79 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: you about this pay for if I should call it 80 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: that the taxing of unrealized gains. Could you see that 81 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: actually passing Congress? Well, I think this is something that 82 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: the American people really really want. UM, there's no question 83 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: about it. You know. The highlight I think of his 84 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: State of the Union to just when he was talking 85 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: about and we're going to ask the richest of the 86 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: Americans to pay their fair share. UM. I think was 87 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: rated as one of the top items that he that 88 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: he mentioned. And there's a strong taste for that, so 89 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: that the president can actually double the non defense spending. 90 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: That's the spending that goes to help ordinary people to uh, 91 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: you know, put more money in their pockets. So yes, 92 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: I think there's certainly a a strong feeling that that 93 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: ought to uh, that ought to happen. And we're only 94 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: talking about taxing. As you said, the one hundred uh 95 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: percent of Americans to have to pay more, and they 96 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: and the President talked about I I heard his speech 97 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: and he talked about, um, the corporations that pay absolutely 98 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: nothing and how much the average taxpayer spends more than 99 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: these bridges of the operations. You know. I get a 100 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: a list of all the letters and the that that 101 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: I hear, and the number one this week of the 102 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: letters that I received um was to um end corporate 103 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: uh corporations from from getting so much money. Okay, and 104 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: the corporate tax rate is one thing when it comes though, 105 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: to my goodness, I did my taxes over the weekend. 106 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: I don't do my own taxes, congress Woman, I'm not 107 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: smart enough. I went to one of these places you 108 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: walk into, give them some money, you sit down with 109 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: the paperwork and all this, and the first thing they 110 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: said was you've probably heard about the backlog, right, And 111 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: I said, yes, I'm actually I've done that story. Or 112 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: the backlog of millions of returns will make a lot 113 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: of them late for Americans this year. What makes us 114 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: think the I R s could handle tracking unrealized gains? 115 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: Wouldn't they have to hire thousands of agents for that. Well, 116 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: I certainly in my office are hearing well from lots 117 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: of people who are, you know, wanting to get their 118 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: taxes take and taking care of. But yes, you know what, 119 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: I think that ordinary people think that there are the 120 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: ones in the qunch and the rich are getting away 121 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: with it that you know, don't pay anything on on 122 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: capital gains, but work is taxed higher than than that. 123 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: So I think what we're seeing is a flipping of 124 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: the priorities in this president's budget from helping out the 125 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: richest of Americans who haven't benefited for all these years 126 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: and saying, uh, not anymore. Well, we're under as I mentioned, 127 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: the Omnibus now that was passed what it was two 128 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: weeks ago or something at this point halfway through the 129 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: fiscal year, and that was considered an achievement. And I 130 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: don't need to tell you this, Congresswoman, you were pivotal 131 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: in making it happen. Do you believe can you tell 132 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: our listeners that this budget, whatever form it takes through negotiation, 133 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: will be in place by the next fiscal year. Well, 134 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: that is certainly the aim that we're not going to 135 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: have to wait half into the in the into the 136 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: fiscal year to finally get a budget pass. But I 137 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: think that there actually is going to be a groundswell 138 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: of support for a budget who reads that resets the 139 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: priorities in the United States. That's gonna actually, you know, 140 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: be able to save money by doing things like lowering 141 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: prescription drugs um and you know, controlling the uh, the 142 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: largest of corporations. That's where the American people, bipartisan I 143 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: really ask that they're they've they've had it with all 144 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,719 Speaker 1: the benefits that go to the wealthiest and to the corporation. 145 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: One of the other things we know that people are well, 146 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: I can I can hear that in your voice, Congresswoman. 147 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: And we know that people are also very concerned about inflation. 148 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: This has become the daily conversation in Washington and this UH, 149 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: this report. I understand the budget plan was crafted with 150 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: numbers from November. Are you worried that they they are 151 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: that this is not adjusted for the current jump in inflation. Well, 152 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: you know, certainly we need to do something to UH 153 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: to reduce inflation. But when we talk about even cutting 154 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: the deficit by more than a trillion dollars to lowering 155 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:20,599 Speaker 1: costs for ordinary people by getting UM, the UM companies 156 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: like the big oil companies under under control UM. You know, 157 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about windfall profits being addressed UM in in 158 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: the in the Congress as well, so UM and and 159 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: we even saw price gouging when it came to food 160 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: prices UM and and so I think that there are 161 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: a number of ways that we're trying to approach the 162 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: issue of inflation and get the UH get those prices 163 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: under control. I understand, But I mean, as as a 164 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: as a member of the Budget Committee, does it bother 165 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: you that you're not starting with the numbers that we 166 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: have now? I mean, we've got the Federal Reserve often 167 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: running on what appears to be a series of interest 168 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: rate hikes. To try to tamp this down in some 169 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: of these items might not be realistic with the current 170 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: way they're written. Well, you know, I'm looking forward to 171 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: the hearing tomorrow where we have they had the UM 172 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: Office the o mb UM to discuss what these what 173 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: these numbers are. But I think the general direction is 174 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: what we need to be UM focusing on in this budget, 175 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: and we're going to get down to the specifics. This 176 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: is the president proposal and now Congress is going to 177 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: get to work with the specifics. But you know, I 178 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: think when the President promises that no one UM earning 179 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: UM more than uh, that no one earning less than 180 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: four hundred thousand dollars is going to pay a single 181 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: penny more in new taxes is something they really want 182 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: to hear. We've all been paying a little bit of 183 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: a tax or a big one, depending on where you 184 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: live at the gas pump. Congresswoman, I know this is 185 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: front and center for you on what is in fact 186 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: the House Budget and Energy Committee UH that you serve 187 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: on here. I'm just looking at w t I today 188 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: crude oil West Texas a hundred and basically six dollars 189 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: of barrel. That would have been shocking a couple of 190 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: months ago. Now it's down significantly from the peak that 191 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: we saw. Where should our listeners prepare for energy prices 192 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: to go in the next couple of weeks. Well, you know, 193 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: if we if we continue to push on the issue 194 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,599 Speaker 1: of the and the President has talked about it, the 195 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: oil companies to plip bus um instead of gujas um 196 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: in lowing those prices, we should be able to see 197 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: them go down. I think that there's increasing demand for that. 198 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: Do you think we've seen the highest prices this year? 199 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: I hope these are the high the highest points. You know, 200 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: I'm getting calls about to fill my tank. Yeah, problem 201 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: s bucks for me over the weekend. I'll tell you what, 202 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: I never saw that in my car. Congresswoman Jan Chikowski, 203 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: thank you, Representative Democrat from Illinois. As we kick off 204 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: the fastest hour in politics, We'll keep our green visors 205 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: on next as we assemble the panel, more on the budget, 206 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: more on Ukraine ahead today. I'm Joe Matthew and this 207 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on with 208 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. One problem with the budget 209 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: we're talking about here, as I read on the terminal 210 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: is the economic projections are now outdated. They were done 211 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: in November, something we just discussed with Congresswoman Chikowski. The 212 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: economic projections, as I read on the terminal, we're finalized 213 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: in November, as is typical for the White House budget process. 214 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: But think here for a minute. Well, this is Bloomberg. 215 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: You know this already. What happened since then? Consumer price 216 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: inflation surging more than one percentage point since the outlook 217 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: seven point and I for sent in the latest release. Right, 218 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: market moving stuff here, not budget moving. Apparently that's moving 219 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: on its own. That was before the invasion of Ukraine, 220 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: that was before gas prices hit record highs. And so 221 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: we assemble the panel to make sense of all of this. 222 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Chanto and Rick Davis with us 223 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: for the hour here. Genie, would it have behooved this 224 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: White House that has been dogged by inflation for the 225 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: better part of a year to acknowledge it in this plan. 226 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: You know, I think it would have it would have 227 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: been good if they would have acknowledged it. And I 228 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: think they are going to going forward. You know, this 229 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: is the reality of fast moving events that the White 230 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: House has no control over. But as usual, what they 231 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: do have control over to the message they put out, 232 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: and that's where they can acknowledge this. And you know, 233 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: you don't want to be left, you know, coming up 234 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: from behind, So you don't want to have it acknowledged 235 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: by you know, others and have them take control of 236 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: the narrative. You want to acknowledge it your self. We're 237 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: you know, we're doing the best we can with fast 238 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: moving events, and these are the best projections we had 239 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: at the time. They haven't said that, and so they're 240 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: going to constantly, to a certain extent, be playing catch 241 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: up at a time in which the numbers both economically 242 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: and poll wise don't look good for this White House. 243 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: Rick I realized you can't pull a budget out of 244 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: the sky, which the White House have have hit the 245 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: slow roll on this maybe gone back through some of 246 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: these numbers. I realized this is the normal way it's done. 247 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: But if there's such a difference between last November and 248 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: this March, what's the point of proposing it? Well, I 249 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: don't think it's that hard to apply a multiplier effect 250 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: to the increase in cp I, right, I mean, like, 251 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: it's one thing to say it took us till since 252 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: November to put together all these government numbers, and that's true. 253 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: It's very difficult to piece together all those those parts. 254 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: But but monitoring inflation is not that difficult, and that 255 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: actually factors into the level of deficits and the amount 256 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: of money that you're gonna have these out years. Now, 257 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: if they want credit for reducing the deficit, and they 258 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: got to take credit for having inflation because that goes 259 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: along with it right now, and I think they're missing 260 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: the point. They thought it was transient. Now they're claiming 261 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: it didn't even exist in their budget. Most president's budgets 262 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: are dead on arrival. This one's dead before arrival to Congress. 263 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: D O b a um Unrealized games, Genie, We've been 264 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: down this road. The three of us have done this, 265 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: and apparently we're gonna do it again. Uh, Taxing unrealized 266 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: games and income at a minimum for households worth a 267 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars or more, Kirsten Cinema, Joe Mansion, Regie 268 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: Neil Genie. No one thinks that's going to pass, right, Yeah, 269 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: I mean this is the sort of I think bind 270 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: the Biden administration has been in from the start. When 271 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: you have a Senate that's fifty fifty, you have to 272 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: make sure you don't lose anyone. And yet they also 273 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: have to play Kata House, which is increasingly frust treated 274 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: and has been with where the administration is heading. And 275 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: I will say again, the latest poll numbers were getting 276 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: out was making the problem for the administration worse. You 277 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: have Alexandricasio Cortez saying, you know, they're losing their constituents 278 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: because they haven't delivered on their promises. So they need 279 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: to placate that part of the House to push these 280 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: things through. And yet you also have to keep the 281 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: Kristin Snam and Joe mansions of the world on board. 282 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: I think with this budget they did try to placate 283 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: to a certain extent Joe Mansion, but any one of 284 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: these people who drops off is a big problem for them. 285 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: This is simply not going to work. And I think 286 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: it is an effort to try to get a conversation 287 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: started with nowhere to go higher spending on police and veterans, 288 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: as well as defense, national security across the board. But 289 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: the defund the police crowd is not going to like this. Rick. 290 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: The President said it in his State of the Union. 291 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: I am not for defunding the police and for funding 292 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: the police. It's a question of how you spend the money. Though. 293 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: How how's the president gonna make any friends on the 294 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: progressive side of the aisle when he's not likely to 295 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: peel off any Republicans with this. Yeah, actually it sounded 296 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: like a very Republican budget. Let's see, they're gonna reduce 297 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: a deficit, they're going to increase by four percent, defense spending, 298 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: they're gonna increase law enforcement by seventeen and a half 299 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: billion dollars, and uh you know it's it's it's like 300 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: everything I heard up to that point in time sounded 301 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,239 Speaker 1: pretty good. Uh So, I think he's really trying to 302 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: get those suburban moderates back on board. And I don't 303 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: think he's paying any attention whatsoever to the to the 304 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: progressive liberals. You know what, the line is a genie 305 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: we heard it a lot of times today in mainstream 306 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: media that a budget is an expression of values that 307 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: no one thinks it's actually gonna look like this when 308 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: it comes out the pipe. On the other end, if 309 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: that's the case, Joe Biden has, well, you tell me, 310 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: different values than the progressive wing of his party. He 311 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: always has. You know, this is the reality for him, 312 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: you know, he and he not only has different values, 313 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,959 Speaker 1: he also is facing a Senate which where power is 314 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: with the moderates in his own caucus. And you know, 315 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,239 Speaker 1: let's look at the timing here. They're probably not going 316 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: to get this done before the fiscal year in October, 317 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 1: and we are just right around the corner then, from 318 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: a mid term which is looking increasingly daunting for this 319 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: White House. To Rick's point, you know, they to a 320 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: certain extent, are in a no win situation. They have 321 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 1: to sort of ignore the progressives at this point, and 322 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: yet doing so is going to give them leave them 323 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: open to these charges that in doing so they have 324 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: lost the support of their major constituents as they head 325 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: into a really really difficult mid term cycle. So this 326 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: is a no win situation for this White House at 327 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: this point. Great talk with Rick and Jennie there with 328 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: us for the hour. Will reassemble the panel after we 329 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: turn to our next story, and that, of course, is 330 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 1: something we can't ignoreance the war in Ukraine. The President 331 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: is back from his trip. We're going to talk about 332 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: how it played and yes, those nine words with Charles 333 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: Cupchen the Council on Foreign Relations. He's up next. This 334 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg and we bring in Charles cup Chen, Senior 335 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, also Professor of 336 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: International Affairs at Georgetown University in the Walsh School of 337 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: Foreign Service and Government. Now that President Biden has returned 338 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: from what I think we could argue was an historic 339 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: trip to Europe in the midst of this war in Ukraine. Charles, 340 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: welcome back to Bloomberg. Good to be with you. I 341 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 1: know where everyone's talking about the nine words that the 342 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: President ad lived in Warsaw. But Professor, he said a 343 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: lot more than that, and he did a lot more 344 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: than deliver a single speech on this trip to Europe, Brussels, 345 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: Poland and the hopes of strengthening the NATO Alliance. Did 346 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: the trip work? I think the trip was a unequivocal 347 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: success in the sense that it was an emergency trip 348 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: to try to demonstrate unity, trans atlantic solidarity, and that's 349 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: exactly what it did. You know, you had back to 350 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: back NATO G seven US EU summits. The allies were 351 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: standing shoulder to shoulder, and it wasn't just a show 352 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 1: a symbolic show of support. They also advanced lines of 353 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: effort across all fronts. More troops to NATO's eastern flank, 354 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: more weapons to Ukraine, more sanctions against Russia, an agreement 355 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: that the US will get l n G to Europe. Okay, 356 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: so those sound like specific victories would l en G. 357 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: This this idea that we're on at least a path 358 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: to replace Russian gas natural gas in Europe? Was that 359 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: the big one? Well, I think you're right to use 360 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: the word path because this is not going to be easy. 361 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: We need to produce more, we need more export terminals, 362 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: they need to be ready to take more. They need 363 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: to get it into their pipelines and make sure they 364 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,239 Speaker 1: have the necessary interconnections. It's a start, but it's an 365 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: important start because right now, you know, Russia is relying 366 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: heavily on energy revenue to keep its lights on and 367 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: to support the war. So if Europe can indeed wean 368 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: itself off Russian gas. In particular, it would help cushion 369 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: Europe against Russian aggression and put Russia's back further up 370 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: against the wall. The White House was quick to walk 371 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: back the President's line at the end there uh, and 372 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: the President has since followed up. But Charles, what damage 373 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: could possibly have done if everyone in the administration agrees 374 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin is a war criminal, the presidents called him 375 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: a pariah, a butcher, does any of that leave room 376 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: for staying in power? I realized that this administration of 377 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: this country is not pursuing regime change. But that's also 378 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 1: not what he said. You know, I think this this 379 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: issue has gotten more attention than it deserves because the 380 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: President himself has said, no, I wasn't referring to regime change. 381 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: The White House has said that, the Secretary of State 382 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: has said that. But the bottom line is, how much 383 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: difference does it make is Plutin sitting there in the 384 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: Kremlin and saying, oh, I've been called a war criminal, 385 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: Oh I've been solted, and therefore I'm not going to 386 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: continue the war or I am going to continue the war. 387 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: I don't think it makes a lot of difference. I 388 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: think he's making judgments on how the war is going. 389 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: He's he's articulating war aims based on his own interests politically. Well, 390 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: we heard from Emmanuel Macron who was offended by this. 391 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: He says, you know, how how do we get a 392 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: ceasefire with language like that? We talked about the victories 393 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 1: on this trip. Was was this a loss? Did the 394 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: President do any damage to our relationships in Europe? I 395 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: think that it was a bit of a kerf fluffle, 396 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: but not one I mean any way compromises the broader mission. 397 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: I think the Biden team has done a pretty done 398 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: good job of organizing the effort and building solid are 399 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: There's a lot to follow up on from this trip, Charles. 400 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: You walked through some of the promises that were made, 401 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: some of the initiatives that were proposed. The most important, 402 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: of course, is military and humanitarian support for the What's 403 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: happening right now at this war at hand, at the 404 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: moment it looks like this is going to continue for 405 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: some time. What more does the US need to do 406 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: to help Ukraine without actually putting boots on the ground. Well, 407 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: we're seeing very significant flow of weaponry from NATO countries 408 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: into Ukraine, lots of anti tank weapons, lots of Stinger 409 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: anti aircraft weapons. There's now talk of increasing the technological 410 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: sophistication of the air defense system. That is, an older 411 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: Russian system called the S three hundred that can go 412 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: after aircraft at higher altitudes than the Stinger. That would 413 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: make a difference. Bottom line, right now, the Russian advance 414 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: has been seriously blunted. We don't know what Putin's next 415 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: steps are, but you're right, this could go on for 416 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 1: weeks more, if not months one. We don't know where 417 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: the Russians are going to take this. You mentioned the 418 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: S three Zelenski asked for that when he addressed the 419 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: Joint Session of Congress specifically asked for that weapon system, 420 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: and that wasn't the first time. What's taking so long 421 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: getting those in there? Are or are they already in use? 422 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: I actually don't know exactly the state of playing. These 423 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: are systems that are possessed by some former members of 424 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: the Warsaw Pact, and so the idea is that because 425 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: they're now in NATO, there would be a joint agreement 426 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: to get them into Ukraine. But exactly where that effort stands, 427 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. And obviously what Biden and NATO we're 428 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: trying to do here is to go as far as 429 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,479 Speaker 1: they can to help Ukraine defend itself without taking steps 430 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: that would appear to be escalatory. You're a senior fellow 431 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: at the Council on Foreign Relations. What is the prospect 432 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: of diplomacy bringing about a ceasefire with everything that has 433 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: been said? If everyone agrees that Vladimir Putin is a 434 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: war criminal, how do you conduct serious negotiating? Well, I 435 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: think whatever we think of Putin, the top priority has 436 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: to be to bring this war to an end. And 437 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: right now I think there are a couple of different 438 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: ways it could unfold. One would be for Russia to 439 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: try to hive off, take a bite out of eastern Ukraine, 440 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,719 Speaker 1: connect the done boss, the separatist control of the areas 441 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: down to Crimea, and stop there. The other, much more 442 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: ambitious goal would be to try to go into Keep 443 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: and topple the regime. We don't know where Putin is 444 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: going to head, but in either way either case, the 445 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,719 Speaker 1: goal here has to be to deny russia It's objectives. 446 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: So what ultimately says this isn't working. We need to 447 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: change the goal posts. We need a diplomatic endgame. Charles 448 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: Cups and Senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, 449 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: Professor of International Affairs at Georgetown University, the Walsh School 450 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: of Foreign Service in Government. Great to have you back, Professor. 451 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: We always learned something when we talk to your freciate, 452 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: your time, pleasure to join you. Coming up next on 453 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On, we'll reassemble the panel for their take 454 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: on all this. I want to know what Rick and 455 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: Jeanie thought of the speech, the nine words and the 456 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 1: way forward. Of course, in Ukraine, and as Donald Trump 457 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: swings through Georgia he drops an F bomb on live 458 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 1: television or did no one carry it? We'll talk to 459 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: the panel about that too. On the fastest hour in Politics. 460 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg 461 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Maybe someday 462 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: the high school history books will have a footnote to 463 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: the president's wartime trip to Europe called Biden's Nine Words. 464 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: For God's sake, this man cannot remain in power, of course, 465 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: spoken at the end of a twenty seven minute speech 466 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: Saturday in warsaw, and that's all anyone's talked about since, 467 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: even though he said a couple more things other than that. 468 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: I just wonder what they would describe this, or how 469 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: they would describe this in terms of positive or negative 470 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: as they describe the ad libbed remark wasn't in the 471 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: original script. Rick and Jennie are back with us as 472 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: we reassemble the panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis, Genie Shenz. 473 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: You know, uh, Rick, it seemed to be an honest moment. 474 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: President came out today, as we heard earlier this hour, 475 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: and said, you know, I'm actually not walking anything back. 476 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: He was just explain that's the way he felt. That 477 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: doesn't represent a change in policy with the administration. Why 478 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: walk anything back? What did he say wrong? I think 479 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,719 Speaker 1: you said anything wrong. This man cannot remain in power, 480 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: No kidding. I mean that's the whole point of this. 481 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: And the White House puts out a statement that says, quote, 482 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: the President's point was that Putin cannot be allowed to 483 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,640 Speaker 1: exercises power over his neighbors or the region. What does 484 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: that even mean? It's close to his own country. I 485 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: think you gotta walk back. The White House not not 486 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: the president. I mean, I think the president is perfect 487 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: on this tone. I mean, we have to be a 488 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: country that promotes values, and we cannot say on one 489 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: day that that Vladimir Putin's army is committing war crimes, 490 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: that the president himself called him a war criminal, and 491 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: then say you can remain in power. How does that work? Well, 492 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: that's the thing here that with the language we're talking about, Genie, 493 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: it's really not the worst thing. He's called him a 494 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: butcher about twenty four hours earlier, when he was visiting 495 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: the refugees, he called him a war criminal, not much 496 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: earlier than that. Aren't those much more condemning than what 497 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: he said in an off hand remark at the end 498 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: of the speech. Yeah, and he called him a killer. 499 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: I mean, we could go on and on with the list, 500 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: and you're right, you know, the reality is is that 501 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: what the president said, it's hard to disagree with that. 502 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: When you think about the facts of this case alone, 503 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: it's hard to disagree with anything he said. The challenges, 504 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: of course the president to a certain extent, distracting from 505 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: what was a very successful trip, because now you've got 506 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: you know, I don't think this is going to last 507 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: into the history books. But you get twenty four forty 508 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: eight hours of distraction away from and I agree with 509 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: with what your guest was just saying, what was a 510 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: really really successful trip trip of uniting NATO, Western allies, 511 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: the EU. And now you've got people like McCrone coming 512 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: out and saying, well, wait a minute, this may not 513 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: be how I would talk about it. So you know, 514 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: to that extent it is something of a distraction, But 515 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,239 Speaker 1: in the reality, I don't think it matters much. This 516 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: is not going to change Putin's behavior by any stretch 517 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: of the imagination, and it's not going to change NATO 518 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: or the eu s behavior. Well, you know what the 519 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: line is, Rick, when people get upset about this, it's 520 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: the same thing they said about Donald Trump. The words 521 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: of a president matter the Joe Biden said that a 522 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: lot of times on the campaign trail. What do you 523 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,479 Speaker 1: make of that side of this? If we're upsetting our 524 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: allies in Europe? Did was it the wrong moment to 525 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: express that opinion? Well, we're upsetting the French. I wouldn't 526 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: say we're upsetting our allies in Europe. I mean, And 527 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: by the way, Mike, how's that plan? McCrone had to 528 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: keep the Russians out of Ukraine. Um, you know, this 529 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: guy is running around trying to do the right thing, 530 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: which caused peace. But the reality is he hasn't made 531 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: any debt in progress. So let's let's just look at 532 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: this from the point of view of what do we 533 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: need to accomplish. The only way Vladimir Putin comes to 534 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: the table to negotiate, and I think your guests said 535 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: this earlier in just a different way, is that if 536 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: he feels the pain, and if he feels the pain 537 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: both at home and abroad, and abroad means he's got 538 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: to be losing in Ukraine, which there's some evidence that 539 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: he's at least stymied, if not potentially losing ground. And 540 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: he's got to feel the pain at home. And why 541 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: in the world would you actually accommodate Vladimir Putin, who's 542 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: a butcher, a killer, a murderer and a war criminal, 543 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: by giving him anything other than a time at home. 544 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: And that means politically, well, I bet it went over 545 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: pretty well in Ukraine. Genie, it might have been. It 546 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: might have gone over pretty well in Ukraine. But let's 547 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,719 Speaker 1: not forget you've also got you know, meetings going on 548 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: in Istanbul tomorrow, and you've got President Zelensky saying that 549 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: there or you know, there is a political diplomatic solution here, 550 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: at least from his perspective. You know, this non nuclear status, neutrality, 551 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: security guarantees. So that is the reality. And and I 552 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: just go back to something. You know, you also had 553 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: a certain suggestion that Germany and France, according to Zelensky, 554 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: we're starting to show cracks and what was otherwise a 555 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: very strong, unified response. And that's something the United States 556 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: has done really well, keep everybody together. And that's where 557 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: I think people do have a concern about the President's statement. Yes, 558 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: it may be true, he's also president with a goal 559 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: keep the Allies united. Anything that distracts from that is 560 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: problematic from his own definition of success. Time with Rick 561 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: and Jeanie on a Monday. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 562 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington. And I know everyone was 563 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: up late last night based on the ratings numbers I 564 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: saw to day at least watching the Oscars. Little did 565 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: we know we were in for Fight Night. Uh my god. 566 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: I actually thought watching Will Smith and Chris Rock that 567 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: I had fallen asleep on the couch, as I've been 568 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: known to do. And maybe I was dreaming, but look, 569 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: I just want people to understand. Will Smith was not 570 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: the only celebrity who dropped uh an F bomb on 571 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: an open microphone on television over the weekend. Well, there 572 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: was also Donald Trump. Here he is at the big 573 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: rally we told you about Friday in Georgia's. He was 574 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: stumping there for former Senator David Purdue. Here's the former 575 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: president talking about climate change versus the threat of climate change, 576 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: versus the threat of the war in Ukraine. And yet 577 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: you have people like John Kerry worrying about the climate. 578 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: The climate. I heard that the other day. Here we 579 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: are guys threatening us. He's worried about the ocean will 580 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: rise one hundreds of one over the next three hundred years. 581 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: Crowd loves this, They love it. As he used to say, 582 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: bomb the s out of them. That always got a 583 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: massive round of applause at the rallies. But let's talk 584 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: about this one, uh Rick, The crowd size was smaller. 585 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: We understand that was one of the biggest standing os 586 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: he got with a with an F bomb. If if 587 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: that is uh the approach, here, where are we gonna 588 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: be in six months for the midterms, never mind two 589 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: years for president. I don't know, but I'm sure gonna 590 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: watch the Academy Awards next year, you know, with a 591 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: cigar and a scott because it was fact night. That 592 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: was something. Um so yeah, I mean where does he 593 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: take it from here? I mean, you know, he's unleashed. 594 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: It's very unusually what happens when Davia Purdue loses. Exactly, 595 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: You've got a former president out there throwing F bombs 596 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: in Georgia. I mean some say he was the F 597 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: bomb in Georgia last time around, which is why you 598 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: have two Democratic senators from Georgia. Uh. You know, if 599 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 1: if these guys don't win, if if Kemp wins and 600 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: Purdue loses as herschel Walker doesn't make it, I mean 601 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: he's gonna have a lot of splaining to do right 602 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: before he announces for president. That was the other thing 603 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:18,919 Speaker 1: is that the rally, he seemed to, you know, tip 604 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: his hat and say, look, you know, I'll be here 605 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: in looking for your vote. That's right. Uh. I ran 606 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: twice he said, Jeanie, this is you know one of 607 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: the lines in the RAN. Twice one twice he said, 608 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: And I might just have to do it again. How 609 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: much do Donald Trump's presidential hopes, if that is what 610 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: I should call them, rest on the outcome of races 611 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: like these in Georgia, so much of it, and you know, 612 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 1: he may have to take you know, some lessons from 613 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,800 Speaker 1: Will Smith and Chris Rock in terms of getting attention. 614 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: You know that the Trump A team is saying, you know, 615 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 1: there was an audience of thirty five thousand people, They're 616 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: saying it was closer to five thousand and almost very 617 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: you know, sort of mood, a muted rather coverage of 618 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: this thing um, regardless of his charged language. And you know, 619 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,760 Speaker 1: this is a problem for Donald Trump. If he starts 620 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,280 Speaker 1: to lose these endorsements, that becomes a sort of license 621 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: for people who want to run away from him. You know, 622 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: allah the governor of Virginia or at least you know, 623 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: put up a boundary between themselves and Trump. They're going 624 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: to have a license to do that. That said, he 625 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: remains the most popular and the most notable you know 626 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: figure in the GOP to this point, and he can 627 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: command a lot of attention. And that is a problem 628 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: for Republicans who want to you know, do as well 629 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: as they can with these suburban moderates. So he's walking 630 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: a tightrope. And what Donald Trump didn't say is he 631 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: lost Georgia, not only himself, despite what he says, but 632 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 1: he lost the Senate. They would have a Senate. He 633 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: did not say that. Wait a minute, uh, Rickley, real quickly. 634 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: How much will the mid terms then, the outcome of 635 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: the Trump endorsed races in the mid terms effect decisions 636 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 1: by Tom Cotton, by Ted Cruz, Josh Holly and whether 637 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: they run. Yeah, I think they're all running now, and 638 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: I think it's sort of reverse discrimination, right if if 639 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: if they run today, they try and line up donors, 640 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: they try and get into Iowa, New Hampshire, which is 641 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: all the things they're doing now, those two and more, um, 642 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: then they can always pull the plug if if they 643 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: decide not to run against Donald Trump and he gets 644 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 1: in the race, but they're not assuming he's in the race, 645 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,280 Speaker 1: and they're devoting a lot of resources, time and effort 646 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: to hiring staff and getting people on board and making 647 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: those calls. So I think it's indicative of some of 648 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: Trump's weakness, is that the field is so active right now, 649 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: running as if he doesn't even exist, and I guess 650 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,919 Speaker 1: if he throws the F bomb down and decides to run, 651 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: that could change things. Rick and Genie, I think he 652 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: as always as we celebrate significant moments this Women's History Month, 653 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: Now with Rnita Young on this day in Women's History. 654 00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventeen, the Women's Army Auxiliary Corps was at published. 655 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: It was renamed Queen Mary's Army Auxiliary Corps in nineteen eighteen, 656 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: and just a few years earlier, the mere suggestion of 657 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: women in the army would have been considered ridiculous by 658 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: the British War Office. As far as the British military 659 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: was concerned, the only military role that was suitable for 660 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: women was nursing. But in nineteen seventeen there was a 661 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: huge step back from that mindset. When World War One 662 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 1: was declared in nineteen fourteen, women formed long lines at 663 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: labor exchanges to volunteer for whatever roles that were available 664 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: related to the war. Coupled with Britain facing a major 665 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: manpower shortage two years later and several movements, women finally 666 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: got an opportunity to work alongside men soon after. That's 667 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 1: Today in Women's History. I'm realed A Young Bloomberg Radio 668 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: And I'm Joe Matthew Sea back here tomorrow. This is 669 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: Bloomberg