WEBVTT - Jake Gold 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:07.840 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets Podcast. We're 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.520 just back from Santa Barbara, the second Annual Music Media Summit. 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:17.200 My good friend Jake Gold is here to review the Shenanigans. There. Jake, 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:19.720 good to have you here. Good to be back, Bob. 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.119 I think we should call it the Bob Cast, not 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:25.800 the podcast. I think it should be the Left Sets 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:29.080 Bob Cast. That's a good idea. I'm open to change, 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:32.279 right I Actually, Jeremiah and I were looking that up 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.400 in Santa Barbara and we saw that there were some 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.680 other Bobs that say Bob cat Cast, which means it's 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.000 totally legit. It's wide open. So I don't see why 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.760 we don't call it the Bob Cast. That's a good idea. 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:46.599 I have to contemplate that, have to run that through 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.440 the mental filtrations. I know, I know he likes it. 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.400 I know he likes the idea of it. So, Jake 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.160 as a manager, and once he gets on something, he's 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.760 covered all three hundred sixty degrees, he's closing on you. 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.120 I'm trying to trying to maintain a little bit of 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:03.360 my own independence before I make a decision. Okay, Well, 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:05.600 you know that's what that's what we do. We we 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:09.759 surround the the artist with all the yes is before 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.600 we actually approached the artist. That's all they can do 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.199 is say yes. Correct, they'll because they'll have the what about? 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.080 What about? And you already have the answers. That's your job. 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:24.800 That's what experiences teaches you. That's correct, amundo um Santa Barbara. 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:26.960 I had never been there before, So what do you 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:29.720 think you want to move there? Uh? It may be 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.280 a little sleepy for me, right, I sleeping for me too, 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:36.520 But people really become infatuated with Santa Barbara and they 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:38.760 want to move there. There are even some people. The 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.240 guy ran Universal Studios for a long time, he used 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:45.880 to commute to Universal City from Santa Barbara. Well, we 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:49.200 left Wednesday morning and it took us maybe an hour 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:51.320 and a half to get into West Hollywood. So it 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.800 wasn't bad. I mean, people commute longer and living in 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.360 New York. Let's be clear, if you go a typical 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:02.720 commute time, you're never gonna be able to match that. No, no, not. 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.160 If you're leaving at seven am, you're dealing with rush 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.600 hour and the same on the way out. I remember 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.760 I was mapping it from Toronto to see how long 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.560 it was going to take. And at the time I 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.640 was mapping it, it was five o'clock here. It was 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:18.720 the last Friday I mapped it, and it said two 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.960 hours and twenty minutes exactly. Yeah, so it could take 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:24.880 a lot longer. But there is a train too that 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:28.880 goes like Jeremiah producer podcast took the train. But uh, 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.080 you know, we live in Los Angeles. Were addicted to 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:33.919 our cars, I know, I know, although as you know, 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.280 more and more people are getting into the car. Well 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:39.400 that's another thing. I mean, we're not really discussing the 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:43.600 conference here, but your car was unfortunately totaled. And you're 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.360 a uber guy. We talked about that in the last party. Yeah, 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.360 doing it all the time, you know, I love it. 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:54.280 It's great, no responsibilities of a vehicle. I'm shirking all 0:02:54.320 --> 0:03:00.320 my responsibilities. It's wonderful at sixty. So we've you doing 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:04.200 what happened in Santa Barbara. Well, I mean, it's it's 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:09.560 interesting that there was yet great speakers. First of all, um, uh, 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:14.320 high level people, all at the top of their game. Um, 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:16.840 I'm curious as to what do you think was the 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:20.720 common thread amongst the five speakers that we had, they 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:26.760 were available. No. Uh, the common thread was the personality. 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.000 Someone else said that they were talking about the hustle. 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:34.640 But um, music business is a very fluid business where 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:39.000 your education and the typical uh notches in your belt 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:42.000 don't really apply. So all of these people to a 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:45.240 degree were self starters, and they found their way to 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.680 the music business and had achieved success based on their 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.080 personality and their smarts as opposed to coming up through 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:56.040 the ranks of business or something else. I would agree 0:03:56.080 --> 0:04:00.440 with you, except in the case of Steve Boom from 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.920 Amazon and Rob Glazer, who were academics, I mean Steve 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:07.400 Booms and a lawyer, right and and and they all 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:12.000 had jobs until until you know, as I say, in 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.240 in the case of Rob Glazer whose chairman of Real Networks, 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:19.880 he left college and he went to work for Microsoft. Okay, 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.320 and that was before Microsoft was the monolith and it 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.839 ultimately became. But then he went on his own and 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.040 he started a business, and he ultimately bought the Pro 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:33.279 Bowlers Association and he became a VC so he was 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:36.440 really doing his own thing. And Steve Boom was a lawyer, 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.360 but then he went to work for Yahoo and he 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.680 ran looped. So these were people who were finding their 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.320 own way, as opposed to someone working for Ge or Xerox, 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.440 who just keeps on going up the ladder. I don't 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.640 doubt that for a second, But I think those two 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:56.760 chose Academia UM as their fallback because Boom was a lawyer, 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.840 like he was a practicing lawyer. Well, let's start with raw. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:04.080 I mean, Rob is highly educated in computer reach. Even 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.839 though he was not a coder at Microsoft or Real Networks, 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.760 he was into computer programming against in high school and 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.000 then he learned how to do that. You know, that's 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.720 one of the great things about today's society. You know. 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:18.520 They call the guy who just wrote what color is 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.919 Your Parachute? Recently died? The Ultimate job Seekers Bible, and 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.400 he talks about transferable skills. It's like even myself, I'm 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:30.960 an attorney. I practice law very briefly, and then when 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:32.919 the Naster thing came up in the year two thousand, 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.719 I knew all the law. Suddenly my law background was relevant. 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:40.360 So a lot of these people, their training comes back 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.760 in certain ways they understand even though they don't use 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:47.840 it directly. Like Rob Glazer, I found it interesting because uh, 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.080 in the case of Daniel Glass, where he he wants 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:54.200 everybody to have at least finished college to work for him, 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.800 and and uh, and then you segue to someone like 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:03.200 like Ethiopia who is president of Motown, who came from 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.520 an academia family, uh, and didn't go to college. And 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:09.880 it was interesting because Daniel Glass came up to me 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.599 after that, that's Ethiopia have to have to marry him? 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:18.080 Of whose head of Motown? And uh, he said, if 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.680 you remember what she said, she said she was offered 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:24.039 a gig at u M at Universal Music Publishing and 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.520 she turned it down and stayed for two years with 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.520 the publishing companies. Who was out in Atlanta, and he said, 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:32.920 that was kind of like going to school. It's a 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.760 little bit of a fudging of the concept. And you know, 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.279 we both we both love Daniel and we both think 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:41.440 the world of him. And he really is you know, 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:45.640 you you had um, you had uh uh you had 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:50.360 Superman schon a while back and and um, but Daniel 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:52.960 Glass is as much Superman as anybody else. Like, the 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:57.839 guy's a wonderful guy and you know, totally accommodating. He 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.960 returns every email, he's that kind a guy, and I 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.440 just find it funny that he'll fudget to fit his 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.680 That may be true, But the interesting thing. The interesting 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.160 thing about Daniel Glass is he trains all his people. 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.880 He doesn't want anybody with bad habits. So I remember 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.600 going the early days to Glass Note Records office in 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.800 Manhattan and there's one big room with like fifteen He's 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.240 got more people. Now he's got forty people. But fifteen 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.120 people are not one over thirty, Okay, So he teaches 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.239 them his style. He does have a couple of people 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.720 who come from somewhere else. This is what people don't 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:38.559 understand about the entertainment business, is you are working seven 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:40.760 He has a couple of people in Los Angeles. These 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.640 people are working around the clock. One of them came 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:48.040 to the conference, and it takes that to make it, 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.720 along with a lot of insights. I mean, Daniel Glass 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.360 is very successful with his own company right now, but 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:55.600 he had bumps in the road getting there. Yeah, but 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.640 everybody does. I mean, that's the nature of entrepreneurship. I agree. 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.840 But you know, it's a funny era in the music 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:07.120 business because most of the people running the giant operations 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:09.840 never had skin in the game. Now, if you look 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.000 on the promotion side at a g J. Marciano was 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:17.360 an independent promoter and Michael Ruppino had a limited amount 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:21.200 of time as a promoter. But everybody running the record 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:25.120 companies never had an independent company as a promoter. I know, 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.800 a club promoter boss says, you've never really a promoter 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:30.800 until you've gone to the A T M At two 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.640 in the morning to withdraw cash to pay the act. Well, 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:37.160 it's an interesting thing because I I personally have a 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.640 bit of an issue. Maybe it's you know, because I've 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.360 only ever done it on my own, never had a 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.160 real job, like a job job, like with a paycheck. 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.319 But you always see that most of these record company 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.920 guys that have been at record companies all their lives, 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.200 that go to try and become a manager, because you know, 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.000 at some point there's attrition at all these record companies 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:03.120 and they all lose their jobs because they're the staffs 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:06.360 are shrinking, and they go, well, I'll guess I'll be 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.800 a manager because they say they know artists or whatever 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:12.360 they think they know, and then they have to pay 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.520 their first career bill because they've never even seen one. 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:17.880 They didn't even know what it looks like before. Uh, 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.680 they've they've never you know, paid their own phone bill 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.000 because it's been paid for like everything else has been 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.840 paid for. And then they have to run a business 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:29.040 and generate revenue at the same time, um, which they 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.520 never had to do before, and most of them fail. Yeah, 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.600 And and some of them go to work for management companies. 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.080 And I've encountered a few of those people, you know, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:42.120 with dealing with other acts when your Access Support Act 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.839 or their Access Support Act whatever. And most of them 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.640 have no concept of management. They're they're just like their 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.719 their job at a management company is almost like their 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.760 job was at a record company. They're not real managers, 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.320 They're just another person that works there. Well, that speaks 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.800 to another issue which started having by ten years ago, 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.560 which is the roll up of management companies. Do you 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:07.880 believe managers should be independent? Well, I I think that 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.960 it's a little different um in the United States than 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.400 it is everywhere else. From talking to some of these 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:18.040 managers that I know that became part of the bigger companies, 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:21.719 a lot of them are basically running their own fiefdoms 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:26.240 with a healthcare package. And and they they've kind of 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.280 said to me, look, I take this I take. I 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.560 become part of a bigger thing. There's a good healthcare package. 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:34.320 I have a family and I want to make sure 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:38.040 I'm covered just in case the ship goes down. And 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.040 at the same time, I have an infrastructure and have 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.600 to worry about an infrastructure. But I still run my 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:45.880 own company and I just do a split on the 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.720 revenue that comes in. Do you think it hobbles them 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.240 in some way having that that as opposed to being 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.560 completely independent, Well, I I think there's I think there's 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:57.920 something for everybody. I think if you're a hustler, you're 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:02.360 a hustler. Um, Chris ru Is, He's He's the one 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.640 that that became part of Chris was totally independent, it 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:09.960 was motional easiest became part of red Light. I think 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.520 I think probably you never know, and maybe down the 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.840 road he'll either you know, moved to a higher position 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:18.480 at red Light, or he may end up leaving on 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.120 his own. Because at some point, I don't know what 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.640 their their deals are, and I think some of them 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:28.920 are doing probably really small deals back to the mother Ship. UM, 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:31.000 I wouldn't know, but I think for a while there, 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:33.880 I think some of the companies were doing seventy thirty 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:38.000 splits with with managers. Am I not right? You know 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.200 most of these deals and I'm not privy to all 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:44.000 of them. Certainly in the initial incarnation was they paid 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:47.240 you a fee and then it was fifty fifty and 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.679 you had to earn back against It was a versus commission, 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.400 which is kind of like an agency deal. Right. But 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:56.800 the interesting thing you reference, and this is a political 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.080 football in the United States. I remember I was, you know, 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.280 I was in Canada talking to a woman who was 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:07.560 thinking of leaving her major label job to go with 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:12.200 an independent and using my US lens, I was, you know, 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.079 saying that that may not be a good idea because 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.439 I'm thinking about healthcare. Where in this particular case, she 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:20.400 goes to work for the independent, doesn't work out, She's 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:22.960 still got her healthcare. That's always a concern in the 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.079 United States. Yeah, if you know, if I'm gonna leave, 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:26.760 what am I gonna do about my health care? You know, 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.200 there's extended packages. I mean, we can get into that 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.840 whole thing. Cobra is a limited time Ian healthcare is 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:35.280 really a big thing. Certainly with Obamacare it was less threatening. 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.200 That's being undercut at this particular point in time. But 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.560 the real question is are you a self starter or 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.120 are you someone who needs the team to function? Well? 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:48.440 I think you you you're building your own team. Anyways, 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:52.080 from my experience from talking to dealing with some of 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.360 these managers that work within these these bigger management firms, 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:01.000 it doesn't seem like, you know, they're getting all that 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:05.319 extra stuff that they're really still running their own things 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:09.800 with not being a specific about different ones, uh, some 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.200 are different. Some give you a lot more autonomy and 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:17.199 less support than others. And by the I guess for me, 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:23.040 when there's no net, you have a heightened anxiety, whereas 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.240 if you have a contract with the management company, you 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.599 might at least say, well, things are not working. I 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.000 got six months and it's always in the distance. Where 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.480 if you're working for yourself every day you're waking up 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.640 and you're thinking, okay, what's next. Is this gonna work? Well? 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.160 In fact, I think that's kind of how it works. 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.520 And if let's go back to to Santa Barbara is 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:46.240 most of the people that um that we're there, I 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.640 think have that attitude. It's like you you live and 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:53.520 breathe what you're doing because it's all yours. Well. I 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.120 mean one of the great stories was Troy Carter who 0:13:56.120 --> 0:14:00.240 said before he signed uh Lady Gaga, he was Rooke 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.280 and he was you know, uh, you know, selling or 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:08.240 painting his wife's engagement ring in order to make the bills. 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.679 And he took Lady Gaga out of the spaghetti warehouse 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:15.040 to celebrate. People have no that's where they met. That 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.920 was their big meeting, he said. He took her out 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.960 to meet at I thought it was a celebration. But 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.680 but in any event, the point being, people have the 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.040 impression that it's a constant upward trend and that is 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.600 not true. No, And I've been doing it now. I 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:37.400 started full time November eighty one, so I'm like thirty. Okay, 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:40.360 So now is it easier or less easy? It's the same. 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.560 It's like it's a funny thing. You know. People talk 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:49.200 about about how much the business has changed, and for 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:54.200 everything that has changed, nothing has changed. You know. Um, 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.120 we had to talk, uh, And I've been thinking about 0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:58.480 this because I knew, you know, we were going to 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.240 be sitting down doing this. But people were talking about, 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:06.920 you know, you continually bring up um and by Spotify 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:11.360 standards rightly, so hip hop strive is the dominant force, 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:15.680 and pop is the dominant force. Um. But you know, 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:19.320 if you think back to when um, you know, we 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:23.520 had pop radio and rock radio. Uh if it it 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:27.920 just went strictly on plays. Pop records were spun fifty 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:32.240 sixty times a week and rock records were spun times 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:36.440 a week, and so pop and those kind of that 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:40.360 kind of music was always sort of more popular, which 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.080 is why it was called pop. You know, we're all 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.640 victims of our own experience, did you may we grew 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:46.960 up in a major market with multiple stations. You grew 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.320 up in the hinterlands with only one station, But certainly 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.600 if you grew up in the metropolis, and you know, 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:56.760 and you're but at my age, baby boomer, Um, there 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.320 was a switch certainly in sixty eight in the New 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:03.360 York radio market, which was my radio market, uh, to 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.600 the FM band. And it wasn't until seventy three that 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.560 Lie Abrahams came along and codified and turned FM into 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.760 a kind of top forty format and then tracks with 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.320 then crossover in the early seventies to AM four people 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:20.960 at FM and the cars at FM ruled and then 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.320 all of a sudden, MTV came in and it was 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.200 what MTV played, and there was a resurgence of Top 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:30.240 forty radio. So in Top forty moved to FM at 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.000 that point to excellent point. I remember, you know, uh 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.520 one point one Here in Los Angeles, they used to 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.440 be they used to be a divide. And I had 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.280 a very funny story about that that happened to me 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.520 when I was about fourteen, fifteen years old, as I 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.680 had been at one of these ben are retreat things 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.760 and I met this girl and and um, she was 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.360 a year older than me, and she lived in St. 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:55.920 Catharine's and she invited me to come spend the weekend 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.720 in St. Catherine's with her and her family, which was, 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:00.640 when you think back on it now, kind of weird. 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.119 Your fourteen, you're four you're fourteen years old, and you know, 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:08.160 and and so I took the bus to St. Catherine. 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.080 It's like an hour an hour and a half by bus, 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.119 probably about an hour and a half two hours depending 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.160 on the stops. St. Catherine's near Niagara Falls, so it's 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.520 and if you drive it, it's like an hour fifteen 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.560 with no traffic back to traffic. And I remember it 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.840 was the it was a Saturday night, and we were 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:30.520 listening to the radio and I hadn't crossed over into 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.800 FM yet and I was still listening to pop music 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:37.600 on AM. But she was a year older and she 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.800 was already listening to FM, and and it was like 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.199 a moment where she kind of realized that I was 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.840 too young for her because I wasn't cool because I 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.840 wasn't listening to FM and she was listening to FM. 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.720 And then you know, within six months, I was now 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.640 listening to FM and listening too much cooler music as 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.520 a result. But after that weekend, she was like, she 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.120 basically said, oh yeah, like we can't. We can't hang 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:05.240 out anymore because I wasn't cool enough because I was 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.520 like still listening to a M music. Well, the funny 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.280 thing is, I don't think today your friends would be 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:14.159 decided Capulli on music. That just illustrates how important music 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:21.120 was back then. We'll take a quick break and come 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.600 back with more of my conversation with Jake Gold, recorded 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.600 live at the tune In Studios in Venice Beach as 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:32.520 we recap the Music Media Summit in Santa Barbara, California. 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.520 This week. I'm speaking with Jake Gold in the last 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.800 couple of months, Paul Rodgers from Free and Bad Company 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.639 joined me in the studio, as well as Oscar winner 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:47.520 Brian Fogel created the documentary Chorus here next week's episode. 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.240 First by subscribing to the podcast on tune in, Apple 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.960 Podcast or your podcast player of choice. Check out the 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:59.359 first thirty interviews, and please rate and review the podcast. Okay, 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:03.800 let's get back to my conversation with Jake Gold getting 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:05.560 back to the dominant and you make you bring up 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:11.040 an excellent point with the analogy of uh Spotify streams 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:15.760 to radio spins. But for those of us who investigate 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.399 the market, whether it be media base which is the 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:21.639 radio charts or the varying charts on Spotify, I'm a 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:26.040 huge rock fan and I cannot sit here and champion 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:29.320 all these rock acts that are deserve attention or not 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.840 getting it. But some of them are doing okay. You know, 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:34.119 the War on Drugs is doing well, and there's a 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:36.479 bunch of rock acts that are actually doing well. And 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.080 you know, I brought it up at the conference and 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.120 even when when you were talking to Ethiopia and she agreed, 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:45.280 is that Spotify doesn't do an album chart, and if 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:48.160 they did an album chart maybe be different because all 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.800 we see is is a song consumption chart, and by 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.399 seeing a song consumption consumption chart, what we're getting is 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:59.520 we're getting And because the chart kind of and the 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.720 way they're algorithm works, it kind of becomes a self 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:06.840 fulfilling prophecy, so one begets the other. I think that 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.200 will drive more plays over and over and again again 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.520 and being put on more playlists. Plus, you know, it's 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:15.639 an interesting thing. I have this band Common Deary. We've 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:19.800 brought it up before. Um they got on to CBC 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:24.119 Radio two. Now CBC Radio two has their own playlists 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.760 on Spotify and it's got a decent amount of followers. Now. 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:33.280 I saw our plays go up on those tracks because 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.239 partly was on some other playlists, but also because it 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:38.480 was on the radio to play. One of the things 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:42.520 I you know, which I wish, which I wish is 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.720 that they had the media based charts, which are radio 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:50.840 charts on Spotify. So far, none of the main streaming 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:55.359 outlets Apple, Spotify, etcetera. Have put the radio charts on that. 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.359 I would like that. It's great that they have that Canada. 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.560 But you can put your own chart up. There's nothing 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.479 to stop few a station can actually create their own 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:05.480 playlist and put it up there, just like there can 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.080 be a Bob Left Sets playlist. But I asked about 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:09.520 the you know I have. We'd have to get Troy 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:11.320 here to find out what the real stories. In any event, 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:14.560 they're not dominant there, and there's the lag. But you know, 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:16.840 you bring up a lot of things. Although the acts 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:21.879 you mentioned, the rock acts are successful, they're not culturally 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.520 dominant the way the hip hop acts are. But I 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.760 don't think we're in a heyday of rock music. Okay, 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:33.080 I wouldn't say we're I don't think. The fact is 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:37.400 is that, you know, knowing, look, I managed the biggest 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:43.119 rock rock act in the country for many many years, 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:45.359 and you know we got we never got played on 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:48.040 pop radio. We only got played on rock radio. And 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:53.320 I can only tell you that our our check royalty 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:57.200 checks for airplay, compared to some of the pop acts 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.520 who weren't selling nearly the amount of ticket and doing 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:02.880 nearly the amount of business, or even for that matter, 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:08.000 selling nearly amount of records. We were selling um albums, um. 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.520 Their checks were probably bigger than ours because of airplay. Yeah, 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:14.480 but that was a different era and a different paradigm. 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:17.280 Everything is different now. Now you bring up a number 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:19.760 of things. One thing that some of the label people 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:23.560 brought up in Santa Barbara that I've patently disagree with 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:27.159 is the concept of the album. Okay, I believe that 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.000 fans want a body of work. If I find a 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:32.920