1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Even among other CEOs, Jeff Bezos has known for being 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: an especially aggressive businessman. He's really good at playing the 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: game of capitalism, where the imperative for any company is 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: to grow and keep growing. So Bezos wants to have 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 1: a hand in almost every aspect of his customers daily lives. 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: And when he hits the wall, he's known for buying 7 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: his way in. When Amazon struggled to sell shoes, they 8 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: bought Zappos for about a billion dollars. When they were 9 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: flailing around with their grocery delivery business, they bought Whole Foods, 10 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: and then in May, Jeff Bezos did it again. Amazon 11 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: today just did some shopping of its own, buying MGM 12 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 1: for nearly eight and a half billion dollars. But this 13 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: is coming as Amazon continues it's push to try and 14 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: figure out Hollywood, try and figure out how to make 15 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: this work with streaming that's kind of been all over 16 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: the map. This is so fascinating. You have this company 17 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: that's really the epitome of the modern company buying a 18 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: film studio that was founded in the silent era. Amazon 19 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: said it was buying one of the most storied names 20 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: in Hollywood. MGM is home to movies like Rocky and RoboCop, 21 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: Fargo and the Survivor TV series, and of course Bond 22 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: James Bond, Mr Bond. The deal surprised even obsessive Amazon 23 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: and Hollywood watchers. Here's my colleague Lucas Shaw, who covers 24 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: the entertainment industry. The response was at first shock at 25 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: the number Amazon was paying almost nine billion dollars from GM, 26 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: which far exceeded what anybody really thought it was worth 27 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: on paper. And the other reason the deal surprised Hollywood 28 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: was what it said about Amazon's and Jeff Bezos's overweening ambition. 29 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: For ten years, Amazon had offered TV shows and movies 30 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: as a free perk to Prime members, but Amazon streaming 31 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: service was seen as trailing Netflix. Making original TV shows 32 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: and films was even considered something of a vanity project 33 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: for Jeff Bezos. He seemed to love attending award shows 34 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: and throwing parties for big name actors at his home 35 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: in Beverly Hills. But the purchase of MGM suggested that 36 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: Bezos was far more serious, that owning content was a 37 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: vital piece of Amazon's future. The deal is the clearest 38 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 1: indicator yet that that Amazon is not just fooling around 39 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: in Hollywood. It's not just some other kind of interloper 40 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: from another industry that thinks it's cool to go to parties. 41 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,119 Speaker 1: They want to play to win. The day of the announcement, 42 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: Beazos talked about it during the company's annual meeting with shareholders. 43 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: We're really excited about MGM. The acquisitions thesis here is 44 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: really very simple. MGM has a vast, deep catalog of 45 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: much beloved intellectual property, and with the talented people at 46 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: MGM and the talented people at ms On Studios, we 47 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: can reimagine and develop that i P for the twenty 48 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: one century. It's gonna be a lot of fun work 49 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: and people who love stories are going to be the 50 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: big beneficiaries. But this was more than a busines and steal. 51 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: It seemed like another inevitable step in Bezos's own remarkable 52 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: reinvention into something of a celebrity himself. And this company, 53 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: which started as an online store then became a cloud 54 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: provider than an AI company with Alexa, now had a 55 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: new target. Hollywood. You're listening to Foundering. I'm your host 56 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: brad Stone. In this episode, we're going to tell the 57 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: story of Prime Video and Amazon's beleaguered path into the 58 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: entertainment industry. It's a story that starts with a strange 59 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: choice by Jeff Bezos to create original content. Amazon Studios 60 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: launches a few celebrated shows, a few more notorious bombs, 61 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: and then gets consumed by a me too controversy that 62 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: shook the company to its core. Bezos's decisions in Hollywood 63 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: would end up changing the company and himself in ways 64 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: that no one predicted. We'll tell you more after a 65 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: quick break. Let's go back a decade and a half 66 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,239 Speaker 1: before Amazon came to buy MGM, before they were investing 67 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: billions of dollars in making movies every year, The mid 68 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: odds were a fertile period for Amazon. This is around 69 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: the time that Jeff Bezos was conceiving the Kindle and Aws, 70 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: and when Amazon was furiously entering new industries and new countries. 71 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: Back then, Netflix was a company that sent their customers 72 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: DVDs in the mail. But then in two thousand seven, 73 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: Netflix introduced a streaming service called watch Now at no 74 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: additional church. It was the official start of the streaming revolution. 75 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: Piso saw what Netflix was doing as the future of 76 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: home entertainment, and he wanted to join the race, but 77 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: Amazon didn't have a vast streaming content library. They didn't 78 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: feel comfortable charging customers for an inferior product. Bezos himself 79 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: came up with the answer that Amazon would give away 80 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: its content for free as well two members of its 81 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: Prime Shipping club. He argued that making TV shows and 82 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: winning awards would help with Amazon's core business. Here's Bezos 83 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: speaking a few years later at the Recode Conference in 84 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen. So, uh, from a business point of view, 85 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: for us, when we win a Golden Globe, it helps 86 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: us sell more shoes. And it does that in a 87 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: very direct way because when people if you look at 88 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: Prime members, they buy more on Amazon than non Prime members. 89 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons they do that is once 90 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: they've paid their in your fee, they're looking around to 91 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: see how can I get more value out of the program, 92 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: and so they look across more categories, they shop more, 93 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: they do they there are a lot of their behaviors 94 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: change in ways that are very attractive to us as 95 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: a business. Bazos saw the Prime video could get more 96 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: people to buy Prime memberships, get people to interact with 97 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: Amazon dot Com every day, and if a competitor like Walmart, 98 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: also geared up to deliver in two days. Amazon Prime 99 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: would already be offering something more. Years later, when antitrust 100 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: authorities were investigating the Amazon MGM deal, critics would point 101 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: to this moment as an example of Amazon behaving anti competitively. 102 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: They were using their dominance in online shopping to give 103 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: themselves a big head start in online video. Amazon introduced 104 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: Prime Video. In February two eleven, we saw Amazon dot 105 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: Com take on Netflix directly, Amazon starting an unlimited streaming 106 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: video service with five thousand movies and TV shows. It's 107 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: for its existing Prime customers, are already pay seventy nine 108 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: dollars per year. The selection was thin, old episodes of 109 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: The Dick Van Dyke Show, PBS documentaries, and old films 110 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: like Stanley Kubrick's two thousand one Open the Pod Bay 111 00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: Doors Help. I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can do that. 112 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: But slowly Amazon started licensing more TV shows and movies 113 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: for media companies like Viacom and Epics, which added stuff 114 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: like Jersey Shore, SpongeBob SquarePants, All Right, pin Head, Your 115 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: Time is up, The Hunger Games movies, and The First 116 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: Avengers such better that might be a really good time 117 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: for you to get angry. That's my secret, Jetty. I'm 118 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: always angry. And because paying for rights to stream blockbusters 119 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: and popular TV shows was so expensive, because they were 120 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: getting into bidding wars with Netflix and Hulu, Amazon decided 121 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: they wanted to control their own destiny. They would create 122 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: their own TV shows. But at the time, you know, 123 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: people were skeptical. They were like, wait, you guys are 124 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: an online bookstore or something, and now you're gonna try 125 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: to be you know, NBC or some or whatever. You're 126 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: gonna try to be a real network. Like I'm not 127 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: sure I believe of you. You know, I'll come back 128 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: in a few years um, And so you have to 129 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: to some extent earn credibility. That's Roy Price, the first 130 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: head of Amazon Studios, as we'll get too later in 131 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: this episode. Roy was later outsted for sexual harassment allegations, 132 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: but he was also responsible for some of Amazon's early successes. 133 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: When Roy started creating TV shows was a really big leap. 134 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: Bezos and his fellow geeks in Seattle thought that they 135 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: could come down to Hollywood and swim in their pool. 136 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: The plan was audacious, maybe even arrogant Bezos believed that 137 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: Hollywood had such a low successory and stumbled so frequently 138 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: with expensive movies that bombed, that Amazon could do things 139 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: differently and better. In two thousand twelve, Amazon Studios opened 140 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: up their first office in Sherman Oaks, above a food 141 00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: Ruckers restaurant. Bezos informally dubbed it the Scientific Studio. The 142 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: idea was that Amazon would be methodical about only making 143 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: shows that people wanted to watch. They gave their customers 144 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: a set of pilots and let viewers vote online about 145 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: which shows they wanted to expand in the full series. 146 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: It was a very silicon value approach. Let's tap into 147 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: the wisdom of the crowd, and most Hollywood veterans rolled 148 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: their eyes. There was a lot of experimentation and and 149 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: it was actually a somewhat amateur on them. We said, 150 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: all right, but we really do need some real professional 151 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: shows on the site. Among the first shows that viewers 152 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: chose were the political comedy Alpha House, which was like 153 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: a watered down version of Veep, and a tech industry 154 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: spoof called Beta's, which was a poor version of the 155 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: HBO comedy Silicon Valley that debuted the next year. They 156 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: weren't exactly hits. Around this time, the Netflix original show 157 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: House of Cards was a huge success, so Amazon was 158 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: playing catch up. So we had to sort of convinced 159 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 1: people that you know, this is this is actually adding 160 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: value over and above all the TV you already have. 161 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: So you've you've got to be distinctive and bringing something 162 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: that is it's it's like film on TV and it's 163 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: great and it's setting a high bar. So Roy decided 164 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: to seek out prestigious projects. He wanted Amazon Studios to 165 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: look like a place that was friendly to artists and 166 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: where audiences could find shows that weren't on mainstream TV networks. 167 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: Amazon's original programming when it first started to really roll out, 168 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: was notably quirkier. That's Danny Gabby. Danny used to be 169 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: a Hollywood agent, and he remembered having a terrible time 170 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: trying to sell a project called Mozart in the Jungle 171 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: about hijinks in a fictional New York City symphony. It 172 00:10:53,760 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: is my honor to introduce to you someone special. At 173 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: twelve years old, he was the youngest person to ever 174 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: win the Maler Award for Young Conductors. That thing died 175 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: on the vine. It wasn't really going anywhere. And then 176 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: a couple of years later, I remember seeing it turning 177 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: up on Amazon and I thought, oh, wow, they're really 178 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: taking a chance for such a for such a unique, 179 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: quirky show. And I always really loved that show and 180 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,719 Speaker 1: really loved That's loved that pilot script. Mozart in the 181 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: Jungle was Amazon's first modest hit, but their next show 182 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: made Amazon a serious player in Hollywood. Here's Roy. When 183 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: I read the script for Transparent, it was it was 184 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: so moving, and it was so great and it was 185 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: so real that you know, we had to make that show. 186 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: It's a show about a fictional Los Angeles family where 187 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: the father played by Jeffrey Tambor, decides the transition later 188 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: in life. Are you saying that you're gonna start dressing 189 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: up like a lady? All of them? My whole life, 190 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: I've been dressing up like a man. This is Transparent 191 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: was a critical hit. Activists praised it for a sensitive 192 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: portrayal of transgender issues. The show made Amazon seemed progressive 193 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: and forward thinking, and in January, Transparent won a Golden Globe, 194 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: making Amazon the first streaming service to win a major award. 195 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: They beat Netflix at something for the first time Transparence 196 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: producer and writer Choe Soloway stood on stage and accepted 197 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 1: the award and thanked Jeff Bezos. I want to thank Amazon, 198 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos. I want to thank the trans community. They 199 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,599 Speaker 1: are our family. They make this possible. This award is 200 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: dedicated to the memory of Lead. It was a tremendous 201 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: validation of Amazon's efforts in Hollywood and if Roy Price's 202 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: initial strategy, and it was a sign of the times 203 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: viewers were beginning to pull away from cable to look 204 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: for high quality shows online. How after their big win 205 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: at the Golden Globes, the Transparent team Joey Salaway and 206 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Tambor appeared on CBS this morning for a victory lap, 207 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: and they brought along Jeff Bezos. He pledged that Amazon's 208 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: approach with TV shows and movies was different. There are 209 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: two ways to go about deciding whether to make a show. 210 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: You can ask yourself how many millions of people are 211 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: going to watch this show? I think that leads you 212 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: into corners that aren't interesting. Or you can say, you know, 213 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: is the creator of this show incredibly passionate about this topic? 214 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: Is the creator of this show one of the world's 215 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: great storytellers. Can they assemble a cast to make this 216 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: thing come to life? You know? And so if you're 217 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: asking that, if you're saying, you know, can we build 218 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: something truly remarkable? I think remarkable storytelling always finds an audience. 219 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: Bezos is saying here that Amazon would keep making more transparence, 220 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: that he would choose passion and artistry over popularity, that 221 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: streaming would offer an alternative to the Hollywood formula. This 222 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: approach would lead to a few more critical hits for 223 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: Amazon Studios, like the marvelous Mrs Masal I would like 224 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: to repeatedly kick every man in here in the ball 225 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: the next several hours. I won't so. I am still 226 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: a lady. Your wife must have a sense of humor. 227 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: She's seeing you naked. And the wonderful Phoebe waller Bridge 228 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: comedy Fleabag Tell the Truth. It's horrendous. It's horrendous, It's modern. 229 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: Don't lie, I'm not look like a pencil. Both were 230 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: projects with messy feminist heroines. They made Amazon seem to 231 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: stand apart from the rest of Hollywood. Here's Roy. One 232 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: of the ways that the studio record was truly distinctive 233 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: is we I think led the league in shows created 234 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: and led by women, winning Emmy's and sort of going 235 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: from nowhere to being, you know, internationally famous and from 236 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: you know, Transparent, you know, Fleabag and Mazel and many 237 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: many in between. And I'm glad to say that a 238 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: lot of the shows really stood out. And you know, 239 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: we won the Globe for Best Comedy four years out 240 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: of six. We won the Best Comedy Director at the 241 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: Emmy's four years out of five. But as Netflix also 242 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: started to mint even bigger streaming hits like Stranger Things, 243 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: that approach wouldn't last. After a few years, Amazon retired 244 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: its quirky pilot voting system. Bezos wanted larger audiences. He 245 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: sought it experienced tastemakers and storytellers Hollywood. It turned out 246 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: was changing the company instead of the other way around. 247 00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: We'll tell you more after the break. On December three, 248 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen, Jeff Bezos through the buzziest party at 249 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: Hollywood at as Beverly Hills Estate. Tons of famous people 250 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: were there, Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, Diane Keaton and 251 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: Ben Kingsley, t Bone, Burnett and Beck and many more. 252 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: They were there to celebrate Manchester by the Seat. It 253 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: was Amazon Studio's biggest movie hit yet. It's a very 254 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: depressing family drama starring Casey Affleck. The movie was up 255 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: for several major awards, continuing a winning streak for Amazon Studios. 256 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: At the center of attention was Bezos. He seemed to 257 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: be loving it. His wife, Mackenzie, was nowhere in sight. 258 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: Friends of the couple told me she disliked these kinds 259 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: of parties. It looked like Bezos was at the start 260 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: of a major personality shift. He used to be content 261 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: to stay out of the limelight, focused on the business 262 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: and on a secret technology projects. But now, with Amazon 263 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: stock price tripling over the previous five years, he was 264 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: one of the richest men in the world, and that 265 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: status came with adulation and social opportunity. Bezos seemed to 266 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: relish it. At the Golden Globes, he sat near the 267 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: stage and laughed uproariously as Jimmy Fallon made jokes about him. 268 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:29,959 Speaker 1: Amazon did pretty well tonight, eleven nominations for Amazon. So 269 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos is here tonight. He actually arrived yesterday, but 270 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: there was no one around a sign for him. Uh 271 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: that night. Manchester by the Sea won five Golden Globes, 272 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: including Best Drama Motion Picture. But behind the scenes, Bezos 273 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: wanted big changes. He was no longer content with Roy 274 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: Price's niche artists driven shows. He wanted Prime Video to grow, 275 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 1: to drive customers to Amazon Prime in hundreds of countries 276 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: around the world. Here's Roy, you know, over time, uh, 277 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: your audience gets bigger. I mean, as your service grows, 278 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: as you grow around the world, you really need some 279 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: tent pole shows. So you've got to have your um 280 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 1: whatever it is, you know, a Lord of the Rings 281 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,719 Speaker 1: or what have you, um, Game of Thrones, you know, 282 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: whatever it is. So Bazos tells Roy at a meeting, 283 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: bring me my Game of Thrones. That's a direct quote. 284 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 1: He was frustrated that he didn't have a blockbuster franchise. 285 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,959 Speaker 1: At another meeting, Basis gave Roy a sort of ingredients 286 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: list of what he believed was essential for every huge show. 287 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 1: His list includes stuff like a heroic protagonist and compelling antagonist, 288 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: positive emotions, negative emotions, wish fulfillment, and diverse world building. 289 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: Those last, to her common tropes in science fiction and fantasy. Anyway, 290 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 1: Basos came up with this on the spot and from 291 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: that point on, every time an Amazon executive wanted to 292 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: greenlight a show, they had to explain how the project 293 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: contained all thirteen of Bezos's storytelling elements. And I gotta 294 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: tell you, when I first wrote about this list and 295 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: it came out, people were really upset about it that 296 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: this billionaire founder thought he could boil down creativity into 297 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: some formula of his own making. It was weird, but 298 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: it's just another part of Bezos's analytical mind, sort of 299 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: like the pilot voting scheme. Bezos wanted to systematize the 300 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: process of creating hits. He believed you can impose a 301 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: rigorous process around the very act of imagination. The quest 302 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: to find the next Game of Thrones put a ton 303 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: of pressure on Roy Price because those big shows and 304 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,959 Speaker 1: movies that Bezos wanted they take time to make, and 305 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: Roy was about to run out of time because in 306 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen, and entertainment journalists named Kim Masters was 307 00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: hearing things, bad things about life at Amazon Studios. Kim 308 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: says she got a call from a source. This source 309 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: painted a picture of cultural dysfunction, a sexist work environment. 310 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: It was kind of a bro environment. Um the upper 311 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: ranks Roy's people that he had brought in. Let's just 312 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: say the source felt that they were not doing great 313 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: job and dubiously qualified. And that's not all. Kim source 314 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: also intimated something more serious, that Roy Price had been 315 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: accused of sexual harassment back in by Issa Dick Hackett. 316 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: She's the executive producer of the Amazon show Man in 317 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: the High Castle and the daughter of the writer Philip K. Dick. 318 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: There was an incident at Comic Con I think in 319 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: San Diego. They were there. There was a dinner where 320 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: Lisa and Roy were in proximity to each other. He 321 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: was being, in her mind, very harassing, which ultimately led 322 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: to a car ride where he re inappropriately started talking 323 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: about his genitalia and um. There were other people in 324 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: the car who were witnessed to this and tried to 325 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: get help her fend him off, and he was aggressively 326 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: pursuing this. And then they arrived at this after party 327 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: and he walks up to her and whispers something the 328 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: very graphic sex act in her ear, just randomly, very odd, 329 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 1: and she was very upset about it. Kim's article alleges 330 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: that Roy Price set outrageously explicit things to Issa Dick Hacket, 331 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: such as you will love my dick and anal sex. 332 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: I reached out to Issa Hackett for this episode and 333 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: she did not want to rehash the incident, but back 334 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: in she told Kim that Roy's comments in the car 335 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: and at the Amazon studio after party were quote shocking 336 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: and surreal that he did not relent when she told 337 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: him that she was not interested, that she was married 338 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: and had a wife and children. And here's Roy Price's 339 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: version of the same event. He denies the specific comments 340 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: attributed to him in the article, but concedes the incident 341 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: happened and that a sexually explicit remarks were failed jokes. 342 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: Well it, you know, it was obviously unfortunate and unintended. 343 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: And I went down to San Diego to look at 344 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: a pilot screening at Comic Con of Man in high Castle, 345 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: and uh, we had a dinner party. I got an 346 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: uber to go to an after party afterwards. I had 347 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: never met kak It, and she hopped in my uber 348 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: along with the guy from Amazon, and you know, there 349 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: was banter in the uber and I deeply apologize. I'm 350 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: sorry if the band enter was you know, overboard. Um, 351 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: and we get to the after part. I mean it 352 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,239 Speaker 1: was very short. It was like whatever, ten blocks at 353 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: one in the morning. Anyway, So I don't know, we 354 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: get out, we take a self I thought everything was copasetic, 355 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: and but obviously, you know, one person's copsetic is it's 356 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: everyone has the right to define their own line of 357 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: humor and copestic and not copessetic. And I'm not objecting 358 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: to that, and again I'm I'm sorry for it. Two 359 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: years after all this happened, Kim Masters published her article 360 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: in The Hollywood Reporter. Her piece came out in October. 361 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: The Roy Price story went public the same week that 362 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: the New York Times and New Yorker published their bombshell 363 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: stories about Harvey Weinstein and pervasive sexual harassment in Hollywood. 364 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: And but that was it. You know, that was not 365 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: a good week to have a bad article, and so 366 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: it was not really kind of to stay under the circumstances, 367 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: and so that was it. Says a Fox's alert. This 368 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: is just breaking Roy Price, Amazon's entertainment chief is taking 369 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: a leave of absence following a sexual harassment claim. Now 370 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: this comes as the massive Harvey Weinstein scandal is now expanding. 371 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: Roy's career in Hollywood. Never recovered and What's more, some 372 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: of the most prestigious projects he brought into Amazon Studios, 373 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: including Manchester by the Sea, Transparent, and a four movie 374 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: deal with Woody Allen, all got clouded by their own 375 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: sexual harassment and assault scandals. With Roy gone, Bezos needed 376 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: a new leader for Amazon Studios. He was at a 377 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: turning point. He wanted a huge hit, and at the 378 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: same time he was getting personally interested in expanding his 379 00:24:48,400 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: profile in Hollywood. That's next. About three months after Roy 380 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: Price resigned, Amazon Studio's got a new boss. Here's my colleague, 381 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: Lucashaw Jen Sulky. Is you know a Hollywood veteran, at 382 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: tried and true person. Uh. She was at the time 383 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: one of the top executives that at NBC UM someone 384 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: who had relationships with people all over town. I don't 385 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: know that she was seen as kind of the pinnacle 386 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: of great taste, but she had a very good sensibility 387 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: for what people wanted to watch. Amazon was sending a 388 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: clear message by hiring a prominent woman to head the 389 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 1: studio at a time of me too controversy. Here's Jen 390 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: Sulky at a panel held by Vanity Fair. I've never 391 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: met Roy Price and UM so I don't I can't 392 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: speak about him personally, but what I can say is 393 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: that there had been a lot of um negativity and trauma, 394 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: a little bit of trauma around the company, understandably, and 395 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,479 Speaker 1: then there had been a lot of healing that had 396 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 1: already started, which I was really happy about. Chen Sulky's 397 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: arrival signal something more subtle. Amazon's tastes were changing, and 398 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: I think to a lot of people as symboled a 399 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: clear departure from the Roy Price era, in both in 400 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 1: that they brought in someone who was the consummate Hollywood insider, 401 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: and in that she had more broad and commercial taste. 402 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: She was not going to come in trying to make 403 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: another transparent Jeff Bezos wanted big franchise TV shows and 404 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: movies with bankable stars that could capture the attention of 405 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: customers and recruit new prime members UM. They wanted shows 406 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,199 Speaker 1: that could speak to the middle of America, speak to 407 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: the kind of person you think of as the average 408 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: Amazon customer UM, and that resulted in shows like Jack Ryan, 409 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: which was political thriller adaptation of a Tom Clancy novel, 410 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: and resulted in the show Like The Boys, which was 411 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: this sort of cynical, acerbic take on the popularity of 412 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: superhero shows. Maybe not super mainstream, but one of the 413 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 1: most popular shows on Amazon. Danny Gabby, the former agent 414 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: it's now a vice Studios executive. He sat in meetings 415 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: with Amazon. He felt their desperation for some kind of big, 416 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 1: blockbuster content. They all looked us and they said, you know, 417 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: we've been having a lot of internal discussions and we 418 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: need to figure out how we're going to be working 419 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: on bigger, tentpole content, think real events series, series like 420 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: Game of Thrones. And they started throwing out Game of 421 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: Thrones a lot in conversation, and then I remember it 422 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: was there was this mantra that everybody started to beat 423 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 1: and beat out in the meetings all around the same time. 424 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: And the sense I got was maybe they were having 425 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: some issues with eyeballs on some of their programming, and 426 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: some of the people at the top looked at the 427 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,120 Speaker 1: studios team and said, you all need to start thinking 428 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: a bit more commercially, because we're not going to keep 429 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: sinking money into this thing if you don't. Amazon executives 430 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: were reluctant to admit that ESOS was dictating this change 431 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: in strategy, but Danny would often receive calls with urgent 432 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: request to create slideshow decks for meetings with Amazon. I'd 433 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: have a lot of last minute late nights where I'd 434 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: have to be throwing together decks about our upcoming film 435 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: or series or documentary slate that they could take up 436 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: with them to Seattle. I remember once I was literally 437 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: at Coachella. I think I was trying to trying to 438 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: watch Kanye perform, and I got a phone call from 439 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 1: our then president saying, I need I need a deck 440 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: about all of our film pipeline that we can go 441 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: and discuss with tomorrow Bezos, maybe at the meeting. This 442 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: new sensibility was accompanied by bigger investments. Amazon would spend 443 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: about five billion on prime video in eighteen eight billion, 444 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: and an astounding eleven billion. It's money that even surprises 445 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: the film industry. Here's Brad Fuller, producer on the Jack 446 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: Ryan series. He's talking to us while sitting by the pool, 447 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: which is why you can hear the sound of water lapping. 448 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: I remember going into an airport right after they dropped 449 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: the first season of the show, and I was traveling 450 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: and I looked in the paperback section in the In 451 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: this you know in the Airport's store and John Krisnsi's 452 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: face was on every single Tom Clancy title, like they 453 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: were promoted and it said watched Jack Ryan on Amazon, 454 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: and um, we were getting packages from Amazon and John's 455 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: face was on the box. Do you know what I'm saying? 456 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: Like they I had never felt promotion like what they 457 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: did on that show in the first season. Oh my god. 458 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: I didn't know that this could actually occur. It was amazing. 459 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: Brad Fuller never got hard numbers about how the show did, 460 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: but he knew it was a success because Amazon immediately 461 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: started talking to him about a second season. They're very 462 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: secretive about their data. As someone who who likes numbers 463 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: and likes to understand analytics and what's happening, I was 464 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: continually pressing and pressing and pressing. And that's Todd Lieberman, 465 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: a producer of the Amazon film The Aeronnuts, starring Felicity 466 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: Jones and Eddie Redmain. He was told it was one 467 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: of the most successful original movies ever released on Amazon acclaim. 468 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: Amazon repeats to many of its partners, and like those 469 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: other partners, he never got hard evidence. Movie studios released 470 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: box office numbers. TV networks issue ratings reports, but streaming 471 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: services like Amazon provide almost no data publicly or privately. 472 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: It's impossible to determine just how Amazon stacks up against Netflix, Hulu, 473 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: and newer players like Apple, TV Plus or Disney Plus. 474 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: Amazon has more than two hundred million Prime members, but 475 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: it doesn't reveal how many people watch or how many 476 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: new Prime subscriptions it gets from its movies and shows. 477 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: But one thing was clear, Amazon and Jeff Bezos are 478 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: in the streaming game to stay. When they bought MGM, 479 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: they basically purchased a vault of valuable intellectual property that 480 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: they could mind for sequels, reboots, and TV series, and 481 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: Bezos kept gravitating towards Hollywood. Every fall, he hosted a 482 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: top secret event in Santa Barbara for entertainment executives and 483 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: actors called Campfire. It was like his own private Davos 484 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: or TED conference. He invited Oprah and Shonda Rhymes, as 485 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: well as speakers like Jane Goodall and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. 486 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: Bezos brought his family and regularly called it the highlight 487 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: of his year. More and more of his private life 488 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: was being swept up into this world of celebrity. He 489 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: kept attending award shows and sat prominently in the audience. 490 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: Here's Chris Rock and Steve Martin at the Oscars. Jeff 491 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: Bezos is it? Oh, Jeff Bezo, great actor? He's got 492 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: cash when he writes to check the bank bouts. Jeff 493 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: Bezos is so rich. He got divorced and he's still 494 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: the richest man in the world. The Jeff Bezos that 495 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: was sitting there at the Oscars seemed like a much 496 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: different man. He had come a long way from the 497 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: guy who predicted that he could build an everything store 498 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: in the Internet. Here are you? I'm Jeff Bezos, what 499 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: is your claim to fame? And the founder of Amazon 500 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: dot Com. It wasn't just a change in Jeff bezos interests, personality, 501 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: or how he was spending his time. There was a 502 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: physical transformation too. In full view, Bezos was getting buffer. 503 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: He was working out a few years earlier, there was 504 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: this famous photograph of him from the Sun Valley Mogul's 505 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: conference wearing Aviator sunglasses, his biceps bulging. He was kind 506 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: of coming to resemble the action stars that he wanted 507 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: for his movies. It was ironic. The journey had begun 508 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: with Bezos trying to transform the way Hollywood created hit 509 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: TV shows and films. But in the end he was 510 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: the one who changed, letting go of his quirky attempts 511 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: to re engineer the entertainment business. Years journalists Kim Masters again. 512 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: I mean, this is a pattern that we're seeing with 513 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: the with the tech companies. They come in here and 514 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: they think they know how to reinvent the wheel, and 515 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: that everybody here is it's been doing it wrong, and 516 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: they're not that bright. After all, it's l a, it's Hollywood. 517 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: And then they've started the higher legacy media people. So 518 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: Jen Sulky is at Amazon, they find out that sometimes 519 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: those dumb Hollywood rules exists for a reason. You know, 520 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: the old rules exist for a reason. This was something 521 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: Bezos was about to learn the hard way in the 522 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: main part of his business, because while he was off 523 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 1: coverting in Hollywood, the Amazon marketplace was going wild. It 524 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: had evolved into a massive online bizarre where there were 525 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: practically no rules to who could sell or what they 526 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: could sell, and what tactics they could use to win 527 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: the sale. Fraud and counterfeits were running rampant. How Amazon 528 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: built a global marketplace and then try to tame it 529 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: We'll tell you that story in the next episode. Foundering 530 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: is hosted by me brad Stone. Sean When is our 531 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: executive producer. Lucas Shaw contributed reporting to this episode. Raymondo 532 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: is our audio engineer. Molly Nugent as our associate producer. 533 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: Mark Million and Vander may Robin Agello and Molly Shoots 534 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: are our story editors. Francesco Levi is the head of 535 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and if you like 536 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: our show, leave a review. Most importantly, tell your friends 537 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: see you next time.